Archived Messages from July 16 to July 27, 2000

Thu Jul 27 23:53:18 PDT 2000


Well said. We had a guy, here, named Clyde Dixon who put it really well. He said, "If this is all we have, then we have only to gain and nothing to lose by being kind to each other while we are here. I personally, honor life religiously, I don’t kill a snake, or even a beetle for the reason that I don’t understand them. It is a creature of the earth, no less deserving of life than I, myself. I don’t recognize that a single conscious being put me here with the snakes and the beetles. We are just here as far as I know, and the snakes and the beetles mean me no harm, thus it would seem pure meanness for me to heap harm upon them. At the same time I wouldn’t let them float around in my soup. They should be made to know their limits.

Mr. Calliano,

You may qualify your students as you like, but I am open to having all your students in the Notebook, if they like. Nothing like that ever did any harm to the Forum.
EJ is very imaginative and I believe she could at the very least impart a good bit by example. Of course I’m not authorized to offer her services, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she offered them herself.


I’m not so sure there is NO reason for the believers to eat the Pagans. Personally, I disapprove, but I hear there is nothing quite like a barbecued pagan after a hard day of being benevolent to the creatures of the world. That is if one believes we are all equally sacred, yet still allow for the consuming of cows, lambs, pigs, and chickens. Surely you can see that the practice of cannibalism would not be prohibited under this system of beliefs. Essentially it is a live and let kill, kind of splinter school of the more common religions in this regard. Much as all the principal religions of the world practice the basic edict of live and let kill. Of course, for the most part there is live and let live, but this seems a rather small dichotomy to accommodate. Especially when the so called "valid" religions find no problem as long as no one eats people. The reason we can not prohibit eating people under this system is that we would have to prohibit eating all the others, because while we do recognize ourselves as superior beings, we do not recognize ourselves as more deserving. It is rather like
Republicans accepting Democrats, not as equals, but as deserving equal rights and priveleges. I know this is not likely to ever happen, but I am trying to make an analogy, here.

Later, my good freinds.

Heather Thu Jul 27 23:13:47 PDT 2000

Jessica -- posted a crit for you on the novel workshop crit page. Remember that grains of salt are in plentiful supply, so bring your shaker to the computer desk!


Heather Thu Jul 27 23:08:30 PDT 2000

Oh, I forgot to say - students!
Bring them on!

Always willing to give critiques. A writer that is not a reader is not a writer.


Heather Thu Jul 27 23:04:26 PDT 2000

Hey there, my lovely NB family,
I am just checking in (doesn't it seem like I just checked out? Of the asylum...)to see what's new.

Enough elipses already.

Now let's get down to the nitty grits.



I think I spilled all the grits I had stored up my sleeves into my chapter 5 already.

Wait. No, I think I feel something rattling around in there like loose change hungering for the vending machine.
Oh, sorry, it is loose change!
Here, gum, gum, gummmm. Come to mama.
90cents, thank you. Ninety cents?!

Ninety cents why, if I saved all my gum money for twenty years, just think of the money I'd have set aside for retirement.

Hm. Mouth dry. Gum tasty. Oh, urge to take shiny silver and nickel pieces and drive them into the slot and push buttons and slide my hand through the triangle wedge-slot and surf for my little foil packet of yummy, saliva-inducing flavoured rubber and chemical sweeteners... oh, why oh why does that sound more disgusting than... hey, I could chew the sole of my shoe and find more calories! And probably real sugar. Now that's a thought. Why pay for gum when I could just stick my foot in my mouth?

Oh, now wait, really.
Sticking my foot in my mouth would be more like what the newest of newbies has done! Chew thoroughly! Swallow now.

...And I can resist no longer! The temptation of imitation cherry crystals peppered into chemically copied rubber tree sap is just TOO MUCH!

*Heather slings the wallet out of her purse, she finds the zipper, and un-zips to release the leather folds and plastic-coated photos; up pops the change bag with-a-snap, out scoots a quarter, and a nickel slides out like sandpapered chrome, and seven, no eight pennies with all sorts of patina and bacterial growths.*
WHAT!? I don't have ninety cents? Only paper money and... dusty swallow... thirty eight cents.


Oh, but I DO have some grits up my sleeve after all.
What do you know!

Guess what. (You've probably guessed anyway) I'm just letting the shit hit the fan and I am being rude.

Well, if the Foo shits... as Mark so aptly put.
I'll wear my share and take my turn. Life is too much fun not to go poking in bee's nests once in a while. My sense of adventure is a tad warped.

Ear-to-ear wallop of a grin.

EJ Thu Jul 27 16:17:23 PDT 2000

fun stuff. that's about it. i'm going to hang back for a while, search for robs in her apartment, i do mean search, she's like o.c.d, never throws anything away. i'll be back in a few days or when ever i feel like it.
i need to do some more writing.
"hoping for life means never living."
where the hell did that one come from? anyway, later.

EJ Thu Jul 27 16:03:50 PDT 2000

Sorry, who ever put a fake address up as Erik's is hysterical. I bet I have an idea who it is.... (Robi, answer your damn phone already....) Anyway, that's not his address. You want his real one? Okay, Erik C. Michaels PH-210 South---hahaha, okay sorry, bad joke. No seriously, let me finish reading the rest of the postings so I can think of something funny.
I feel better today. Love the whole writing thing again, and Mr. Callanio, please! I'd love to read your student's work, Go NYC.

Jerry A.G. Ericsson Thu Jul 27 15:47:55 PDT 2000

Tyler - I would have no problem at all with students posting in the workbook. We have had our share of students here who join on thier own, and we have always welcomed them.

Garyss - On the subject of religion - I guess I have been back and forth myself. When I went to Vietnam, I was an agnostic like yourself. Sometime in that year, I saw reason to re-affiliate myself with the church. I have no problem with anyone practicing thier own form of religion, or for that matter no religion at all. Being a good person is all that matters, helping others when you can, and treating people like you want to be treated.

Write ON!


The Old Man Thu Jul 27 15:20:58 PDT 2000

Greetings and Felicitations,

On the subject of Christianity, we are all on this Earth for the betterment of each other. As long as you are a healthy part of the world at large, there is no reason for the believers to eat the pagans. (Ha, Ha)

Tyler, On the subject of students posting their work for the sake of critisism, is that not the reason we are all here? I, for one, have no problem with that. In fact, your students and yourself are just as welcome as any who profess to show interest in the skill we all hold dear.
We are the offspring of the 9 muses who exist to enrich the lives of all.(If you believe in that sort of thing.)

All, Take all I say to you with a good humor and a grain of salt. It will aid in the digestion of bologna.

Take Care,

Tyler Callanio Thu Jul 27 14:52:14 PDT 2000

Sorry, forgot to put in my e-mail address in case anyone had any questions!
Tyler Callanio

Tyler Callanio Thu Jul 27 14:41:27 PDT 2000

Hello Notebook Members,
My name is Tyler Callanio and I teach a Creative Writing Class two nights a week in Brooklyn, New York City. I wrote for many different magazines before I became a teacher and came across this website much by accident. In my class I have four exceptional students that I feel would benefit from a little exposer to the criticism from other writers, aside from myself.
My proposal is that these four students be allowed to post a bit of what they write on your website and have you give them constructive help in making their writing better.
If anyone has a problem with this I understand, I will check back in a day or so to see if there are any objections to these four students posting a bit of their work for all of you to read and critique. Thank you for your time and patience,
Tyler Callanio

gariess Thu Jul 27 14:40:23 PDT 2000


I am glad that you never decided to quit the NB. So many people have, and they all had their reasons, no doubt. When I think of it, if all the people had stayed, Jack would have his full time job just archiving the forum. I must respond, however, to your kind words, dear Rhoda.

Rachel, I’m encouraged to hear you say you are not a Christian. I myself am not a Christian, and it pleases me to know there are a few others besides myself who believe in nothing. Now, that may sound strange, and people could get the wrong idea about what I mean by nothing. Mostly it applies to an after-life in which people’s spirits are supposed to exist in one state or another. The nothing applies to the after-life of one who believes there is none, ergo nothing, or more correctly, non-existence. I should at this point release you from inclusion in my belief system in toto. You did not, after all, say you were a dis-believer, only that you are not a Christian. No offense is intended on my part.

I remember a fellow asking me what church I attended. I thought it was rather presumptuous of the guy to have asked me the question, and equally so not to consider the possibility that I may have attended no church at all. I told the man I was an agnostic. He look puzzled for a second and then said, "I don’t know that one, but I guess we all pray to the same god."

I should be reluctant to enlarge on this topic, knowing the kind of havoc that can be wrought on a public forum that gets caught up in a religion dialogue of any kind, but I am going to honor the enlightened collective mind of the ‘book and let it stand.

My best to you ALL,


Rhoda Thu Jul 27 12:17:36 PDT 2000

I want to give a personal "Hello" to Mark, whom I do not think I have ever addressed here before. I don't know why. Mark, I read everything you post, and it is always interesting.


Sorry I missed you. We must have posted at the same time last night. If you do not read this before you go, I hope you can at least feel the vives. Have a wonderful vacation!!!


I like having you around, not only for your humor and charm, but because with you here I don't feel so much like an old-timer. Why is it we have held on here so long? Perhaps it is our tenacity.

Speaking of which, once in awhile I feel out of the loop as far as the Notebook is concerned. Sometimes we are on a subject that does not interest me, and I get on and sometimes for days have nothing to post. There have even been days at a time I have refrained to visit the Notebook. There have even been a couple of occassions I have intended to give it up altogether. Fortunately, for some, I cannot let you all go right now. But for those times when I did not want to post or to participate, it was generally due more to what was going on in my head at the time than to anything going on here. The Notebook is a fluid thing. It is in constant flux. Personalities come and go, and, heck, we all change a little. None of you older ones are exactly the way you were a year or two ago.

If you don't like this place, wait it out. What you get this week might not be the same next week. Check out the archives and see if it isn't so.

My carpet is finally clean as is 3/4 of my house, but my poor vacumn cleaner died. I must go to Liberal today and get a new one, bummer!

Love you, all. Hugs and kisses to you all, even to Americo and Jon where ever they may be.


Rachel Thu Jul 27 10:14:08 PDT 2000

Mary - You are one very nice lady (smiles).

Valerie - Welcome to the Notebook. I read your post and would like to tell you that you don't need to be invited to participate in a conversation. Just jump right in. What you did was what you should do. If you have something that you want to say on a topic then go ahead and say it (smiles).

Mary Thu Jul 27 08:52:11 PDT 2000

MARK: I went ahead and posted that on the poetry crit page. But take it with a grain of salt. You can divide the stanzas up differently than I did--the thing sounds a lot better than it looks. Just hold your nose and read it really fast and you won't even notice. :-)

Seriously though, the only thing my critique is really good for is a couple of word change suggestions. Love the metaphor you have going there. I really liked this piece and look forward to seeing what else you have to contribute. Write-on!

Valerie Thu Jul 27 08:45:45 PDT 2000

Dear Friends:

Looking for some writing buddies to share work with via email. Anyone interested?

As a new person here, I can't really "get" the whole Eric thing - other than to point out if anyone said something hurtful about my work I would consider 1. I am on the internet afterall 2. I would avoid having my Dad or my editor or my husband scold anyone (I would appreciate a critical eye in order to look at my work in a new way) 3. Most editors I have worked with in the past don't have time to eat lunch, so I am doubtful publishers have time to monitor boards like this. Just what I think - I know you didn't ask - just had to say it anyhow.

Hope things are well in the world of writing - I posted an article on Themestream yesterday just to finish something. So far it's a real blockbuster, NOT! Oh well, it's only been one day. Was hoping to see dimes rolling in like a Las Vegas slot machine jackpot!

Take Care,


Mary Thu Jul 27 08:04:23 PDT 2000

MARK: try -- 'likened' instead of similied. let me know how it feels to you. you will have to tweak a few of the other lines to make it flow, but it is do-able. i tried it, and like it better...if you want to see how i reworked it, just let me know. :-)

Debra J. Palardy Thu Jul 27 07:13:54 PDT 2000

Hi All:

I just want to say one more thing about this Erik post. I get the feeling that it was an attempt to see who of us was willing to jump through hoops. That stinks. Even worse, what if someone did? To divide is to conquer. It's almost as if he wanted to plant a seed of discontent and watch it grow.

He probably has his phone fixed to print every phone call on the NB. Just say no to calling that number. IT'S A TRAP! Don't go in there!

Okay, that's it. I'm done.

You guys are great. I should know. When I first discoverd the chat rooms, I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. I lasted one week. How many years ago did they first appear? I'm dating myself. I found so many angry people I started to shrink inside at the thought of going back in. For the record, I am not shrinking here.

Just for the record writers and the things they write are like the Sun. There is enough for everyone. It's not like only one lead part in a play or a movie.

So bye for now. I still have twins to attend to. There's two of um. Sometimes I think that there might be more but I just haven't seen them in the same spot yet.


Mark Thu Jul 27 07:06:40 PDT 2000

ARIK - Thank you. The foo story was inspired by all the stuff flying here lately over hurt feelings and, well, if the shoe fits . . .

GARIESS - boffo, pal, boffo. It's Erik in one post and Eric in another. Your reading is patient, sensitive and adult.

JACK - Good luck. I'm doing the MIS thing 20 hrs/wk and that's enough for now. I may want more later, but all the bills are paid. Guy across the street works full time in a warehouse and I make more dough. Thank God for small gifts, eh?

HEATHER -- Avatar went berzerk, huh? There's an interesting word. Scandanavian warriors would put on a shirt made of bear skin before going to battle. They were called 'berserkers' or 'bear-shirters'. They would go 'bearshirt' to fight.

AVATAR - You in the woods?

MARY - chameleoned my way in . . . oooh, I like it. Take a look at the poetry page and my pome SHROUD OF TURIN. I use the word 'similied.' For this audience I think it works, for another audience I might need to change it. What think you?

EJ/ROBI/ERIC -- Welcome, I'm Mark, an old man with gas.

OLD MAN - no, maybe that's you with the gas. On the names thing, Mark is also derived from the germanic mearch for border, so the mark was the point separating two properties. Borders being what they are, and often in dispute, mearchs were frequently at the center of an argument.

AMERICO - enjoy vacation.

Speaking of which,
HOWARD - miss you

HOLY MOLEY, there must be someone I haven't said Hi to. Here it is: HI!

Mary Thu Jul 27 06:28:17 PDT 2000

ARIK: Welcome back...even if I didn't win any prizes.

HEATHER: Thanks for your kind words to me. And for your very wise statments regarding the latest plot twist here at the Notebook.

TEEKAY: Wish my guardian angel had been rejecting a few of my posts along the way, that's fer sher!! Smiles to you.

GS: You crack me right up.

ERIC: Good thing none of us are stalkers. Better watch out for any lurkers that see that address there.

RACHEL: It doesn't matter to me that you are not a Christian, because to be perfectly honest with you, you act more like what a Christian is supposed to act like than most Christians I know. (nice sentence structure, eh?) I am a Christian myself, but I think that Buddhism has many merits. I guess that I just feel that none of us (meaning religions) are wrong in our beliefs. I think that no matter what religion you are, if you live it fully and will get where you are trying to go. "And that's all I've got to say 'bout that."-forrest gump

EVERYONE ELSE: Hi Jerry, Howrad(wherever you are), Jack, Christi, EjRobiEric, sasquatch person, Avatar, Goodweed Bob, T.O.M., all know who you are...HAVE A GREAT DAY! AND WRITE MUCHLY.

Arik Thu Jul 27 03:22:28 PDT 2000

Hello everyone.... specially the "newbies" as Hallee calls them. I am back and that means that the sentances are also back :-). I have to say that it is getting harder and harder because there are so much wounderfull, funny and specially stupid sentances around here... but there it is:


The dumbest sentance today is by Hallee.... and it is about the "newbies"

"HAHAHAHA (sigh)

for all the newbies...the following post is from me.
(No..I don't do it on purpose)



The funniest is by Mark.... Good idea for a name mark :-):

"Finally there's the Foo. That impressive bird presented to the National Zoo by The Peoples' Republic of China."


And today's best sentance is by EJ.. and I have to say he is right:

"there's more to learn in the world then what's written."


Rachel - Naktar is a great name... not a normal one but if you want to call your child like the the greek gods wine.... there you go :-).

Jack Beslanwitch Thu Jul 27 03:00:30 PDT 2000

Hello everyone: have been a bit sidetracked of late, so finally got back here. I have the interview previously alluded to coming up this Friday. So, wish me luck. It is a little daunting facing the 40 hour world again after such a long time of working for myself. But we will see how it goes. Take care all. Of course, with my luck, I will get the job and about that time my agent will call with a book contract for a computer book.

Rachel Thu Jul 27 00:19:12 PDT 2000

Garries - I just wanted to say hi to yah.

Heather - Hey you! I still like to know that other people get the walking naked feeling. That makes me feel good. I don't really feel that way any more. I am much more comfortable talking to people about what I do and what I write. I don't think that I'll ever forget the feeling I had when I first posted something in the notebook. I was terrified. After that I posted in the workbook and I really thought I would pass out before I ever got a chance to post my chapter. Now I don't post for different reasons. I'm pretty quiet about my writing. I'm not really sure why I just am. That is not to say that I'm not doing anything with my writing (grins). I'm working over here. I just don't make much noise.

Avatar - I don't know if your question was serious or not. I will answer you honestly. I am not a Christian. To say I am one would make me a liar. I'm just a gal who is embracing life. I try to treat people the way I would want them to treat me. I hope the fact that I'm not a Christian isn't going to upset anyone. I'm a person of no specific faith at this time. If I had to select a faith in the morning it would be Buddhism. The names that you suggest are all very nice. Thanks!

Hallee - I didn't come up with the name game but I sure do like it (smiles).

All - I love you guys like family! Each and every one of you has a very special place in my heart.

Erik - I think you really should look into changing your phone number and address quickly. I think you must be pretty new to the net. YIKES! Buddy, what were yah thinking? Posting your home info. like that just isn't a good idea. At least I don't think it is.

gariess Thu Jul 27 00:07:01 PDT 2000


If I were the kind of guy to have favorites, you would be mine. But wait, There's Rachel, and Heather and... Aw, like I was saying, I'm not the kind of guy to have favorites......


gariess Wed Jul 26 23:48:03 PDT 2000

Hey you guys,

Offhand, I would guess that of all the people who post here, Rhoda and I are the two correspondents of longest standing. I don't really remember my state of mind when I first put my oar in the water, here, so it is interesting to me that so many people have had misgivings about joining - so to speak - the group. I, personally don't see posting in the NB as a very intimidating venture, myself, but as I have noted, maybe I've been around too long to remember.

I would guess that everyone approaches, here, with a different set of feelings, motives, concerns, etc. and that mostly these feelings center around something like the first day in a new school, or auditioning for a part in a play - something like that. If I were a sensitive enough kind of guy I suppose I would keep that in mind when people are new to the NB. One needs to be around for a while to realize that much attention to new people has a limiting effect upon one's responses to the group in general. The flow is often very fast in the NB and I tend to expect a word of greeting and acknowledgement of a comment completes an introductory acceptance of a new voice.

Of course, I have the advantage of having already seen most of the reactions to the post of Eric, the publisher. Eric, the fellow who has been keeping a candid eye on our behavior for some five months or so. I too have read what Eric, the publisher has said to us and I thought I ought to try reading it from a different perspective. I though I should imagine that a person was somehow offended by the kind of insensitivity I mentioned earlier. I thought I should imagine that person, out of frustration, wishing some potent champion would come along and punish us all for our insensitvity.

Who, I would wonder, would be in a positiion to punish a group of writers? Maybe, a publisher would be good... better yet, a pulisher who has been secretly watching these writers and sizing them up for jobs with his firm. That would be such a fitting and ironic consequence. But, alas, there is no such publisher. More's the pity, because it would be so... appropriate.

Still, those writers don't know there is no publisher, and if I pretended to be a publisher... from New York, yes, a New York publisher, I could berate them all. I could tell them I was thinking of hiring them for my firm, and then strike them all down, telling them they are cold-hearted and mean and they wrongly offended my very good friend and associate, namely me. That would be so good, but I would need to get an email adress so I can recieve their pleas and apologies when they all beg to be forgiven. Actually,I think I can do that. This is starting to sound really good. Then I need a good sounding publisher name... maybe Eric something.

Of course the foregoing is all just a great flight of fancy on the part of one writer in this forum. Maybe there is no way to get an email adress with a false identity. Still, I think it would do credit to the imagination of a writer to use such writerly skills, and to create such a writerly deception as I have described. If one has the skills to create fiction, one need not be limited to homely moralities and conventions. One can use those skills in the advancement of one's cause. One can provoke responses from people that would be exraordinary and beyond the possibilities of normal and candid inter-action, not to mention the empowerment it implies if effectively undertaken.

Be all that as it may, it is merely a fanciful speculation on my part, and one that may be poorly thought out. In fact, I prefer the suggestion as it stands that there is a publisher who has been keeping his eye on us all. Because I can support the claim that I, while I may be guilty of some sins of omission in not helping to create a freindly enough ambience for some newcomers, have not gone on record as overtly snubbing or passing harsh judgement upon the work of any newcomer. I submit this to all lurking publishers who are looking for people to employ in their firms. I will also accept less than the usual signing bonus as a further inducement.

You have to love this Notebook. It really has its interesting moments.


Heather Wed Jul 26 22:50:29 PDT 2000

I will miss you! We all will. Have the most relaxing and inspiring vacation possible. Big kisses and HUGS.

Avatar, hey there. Seems you got worked up over the name suggestions and went berzerk! Think we all do from time to time. No better place than here to say what's on your mind.

And let's just really say what's on our minds. There's no point beating bushes, or beating in the vacinity thereof.

Mary, you did enter the NB with quite a flourish, and I think it sparked us quite a lot! Nothing like sparks. Thanks for staying, you are indeed a gem the 'family' NB would have missed out on.

Family is right. This NB is a family. And no family hasn't had squabbles.
New family members cannot be ghosts or fakes or schmoozers if they plan on being real. Real writers, that is.
The point is, this nest of personalities has made a real home of these quarters, and will protect it.

That's all I can think of at the moment, I'm off to wrestle again in chapter 5... think it's about time I stripped down to my sumo outfit and BBQ'd up some tasty steaks. (Grilled peppers for the vego-matics)

Rachel, you tickle!
Walking naked through a mall. Yeah, felt that way exposing my writing, too. Bare to the bones.

If this is confusing, here is my excuse:
Just came from the Writer's Digest Forum and whew! I'm glad I got out of there. Some of the recent manuscript postings are (Siskel and Ebert style) two thumbs WAY DOWN. Not that they can't be revised. And that's just my opinion.
Oh, WAIT - there was one exception! Do read 'Juanita' if you happen by the site. It's not bad at all. :o)
here's the locale:

Jerry, I think you had it all encased in a small nut covering:
This is the best group of talent in any writer's site you have ever cruised. You included.



Teekay Wed Jul 26 22:42:53 PDT 2000

Whoooeeee little Buddy, I finally got on!!!!

AVATAR: Wow, what a post. I think it must be one of the longest you have ever posted.

EJ: Stop ya sulkin'. You have a long way to go to beat MARY's entrance and we love her.
I really don't know what it is. Your and Robi's posts do tend to resemble those of fictional characters. I did enjoy them nevertheless. They made me chuckle.
Now you may well be a real person and so may ROBI and ERIC, but I really have to wonder about your mental state when you can put your names and addresses on the internet like that. You're either very innocent, very crazy or totally made up.
We are not ALL normal here.

MARY: Hahahahaha you may have wanted to read what I had to say in my first post, but my guardian angel was watching over me and made sure it didn't get posted. It was one of those posts where, once you've simmered down,you wish you'd never pressend that little send icon. Hahahahahah.

CHRISTI: You can access your mail by clicking on the icon at the top of the screen. After you do that, then you can type in a letter and after that you can press send. HINT HINT.

GARIESS: I knew you were only joking, you're a tongue in cheek, and lightbulb in undies kinda guy aren't you. Uh oh, the lightbulb thing again. Ah well, I have no taste, who cares? I never professed to have. Is that the right word, oh, it doesn't really matter does it, forgot who I was talking to for a minute :-^. Hahahahah.

Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but I see us all here as a little cyber family. Dysfunctional maybe, but family nevertheless.
I read all the posts, unless I get too far behind and sometimes I laugh and sometimes I cry, sometimes I respond and sometimes I don't, but I believe that all of you have something special to offer and I am grateful to each and everyone of you for the things I have in common with you all, and also for the differences.

Am feeling very happy with myself as I have begun chapter 2. Aaah, progress.

Avatar Wed Jul 26 21:07:59 PDT 2000

I can't spell! I cna't pspelll! can eit spelelel!

That's enought from me ;)

Naw, yous guys ain't had nough yet.

Word plays? You mean, there have been some words played about it here? And no one told me?! dang, darn, oh whatever! I missed out on a lot...

Rachel- On naming names...
Okay, If you are a Christian (you are aren't you?) you might want to name your child something that derives from that word. And there's a whole mess out there..
Christine (and any other spelling thereof)
Kristen (and any other spelling thereof)
Christy (ditto)
Kirstie (Though I wouldn't recommend it, you'd be naming her after me!)
-and that's the only reason I know that most of these names derive from the word Christian, I might add!

And if you're up to a few more suggestions, I've always preferred Caitlin. The name's getting a bit more popular now, so if a she, she'll have less trouble explaining how to say it to people *grin*
No, wait a minute! I used that name for a main character a long time ago! Hmm...If I didn't know any better, I'd say I was trying to manipulate the name picking... ;)
Naah. You're too smart for that.
Boy's names- Chris (does that come from Christian too, I wonder?), Reno(macho name), um, um, ahhhhhh! I forgot what I was going to say! NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

That's enough flak from me for one day *bigger grin* I'm a senior in high school now, but I've got the childishness of a seventh grader! Somehow...
Just don't name him Bill, or I will be highly disappointed in you. :(

EJ- Um, what? This is to your friend as well:
At times, usually after the first few weeks, people begin to drift off from the welcome, welcome! attitudes that dominate when you first arrive. And sometimes, you feel left out when no one answers your posts, or pays you any attention, or drops a bomb on you. One of two things has resulted-
1)They have skipped over your posts accidentally while reading the recent ones. The notebook tends to get talk on it really fast, and reading all that often sends one into the sweet numbness of oblivion. This 'skippin'-over what doesn't seem to be addressed to me, or whatever the reason' happens A LOT, and it was the main reason I often felt left out up until a few months ago, when my dim-witted brain finally smacked itself.
2)Someone mistakes the meaning in your posts and drops the proverbial bomb on you. Now, I don't want to point fingers at anyone, but by the time this happens, people tend to get a little uppity and, well, hurt! What should happen, is the two should get together over e-mail or whatever and talk it over, but it usually blows out over the notebook. Everyone is affected. And my dear, you have done just that!
(But don't be ashamed, you are following in the proud footsteps of tradition ;) )
I've done it myself. What's done is done *shrug*. But now someone needs to step up to the plate and apologize (and many have done so) or begin mending the fences. And please don't leave because of one confrontation! We'd miss out on something good, I'm sure.
Now, ERIK, you have just gone and offended a lot of people. You did it in the interests of your friend, but if you look back at the posts, you might see that some did not do what you accused them of doing, or you might have unfairly accused us all. I really don't care what the reason right now. This has gone way out of proportion and it needs to stop. RIGHT NOW! You are judging us by the way we are reacting, and the perception that started it all was flawed. Are you really sure that it is right to pass up the judgement that has been building about us longer than
the conflict that has changed it?
I apologize if I have offended anyone. If you would like to tell me that I have indeed offended you, or a point has not been made clear, my e-mail address is included above. Please use it. Don't start another argument on this notebook, or it will truly seem to be the house of cold-hearts that someone termed it.


Rachel Wed Jul 26 21:00:35 PDT 2000

Mary - When I first posted here I think I left some people wondering. I started with saying something about how the thought of letting people look at my writing felt like walking naked through the mall. I still blush at the idea that somebody might have thought I really had walked naked in the mall. I don't even B-B-Q topless!

Wed Jul 26 20:54:28 PDT 2000

Eric Michaels
183 7th Ave
Brooklyn, NY 11215-2668

Jerry A.G. Ericsson Wed Jul 26 20:47:59 PDT 2000

OOPS, forgot to say welcome to all three, Robi, EJ and Erick, if you are all for real, come on in and join us, we are really a very nice bunch of people, not at all shallow.


Jerry A.G. Ericsson Wed Jul 26 20:27:02 PDT 2000

Ok, now the EJ and Robi thing. Well under my keen powers of observation, it appears that someone is trying to put us on? You know, kind of like the Jon/Pussy thing. I can't imagine someone signing onto a new board, or in our case notebook, and beginning by calling us shallow. But who knows. I do remember a time when I felt unwelcome here, now it wasn't anyones fault but my own, for not joining in and batting the ball around the court, but I did feel that way about a year or so ago. Think I said something about it once when (I can't remember his name anymore but he was Swiss,) left. Guess they could be a tad depressed, or as some have observed maybe pulling our legs. Aw well, I really don't see where anyone said anything hurtfull and I did read all the posts from top to bottom. Hope it is just a game, or simple misunderstanding, as I would hate to see anyone hurt in such a wonderful home as ours.

Write On

Mary Wed Jul 26 19:31:35 PDT 2000


I hope you aren't gone already and don't get to see that I just spent another 8 minutes posting a message just for you:


and you thoughi i didn't care. :-)

Mary Wed Jul 26 19:24:26 PDT 2000


Why is it taking so long for the Notebook to doesn't feel that big.

TEEKAY: It's not just you, it took me 8 minutes to get down to this posting box.(if that is what this thing is called)

RACHEL: I remember when I first posted here...holy cow...what a self-righteous idiot I was. You are right, I didn't feel that welcome, but I brought it on myself.(Not that I am saying that EJ brought her situation on herself) I think that when you are trying to be accepted by a group of your peers the entrance is key. I mean, look at Mark...he is new, but you would never guess it. He just chameleoned his way right in here. No ripples, interesting-intellectual posts. He is a natural. I was a killer whale show. Splashed in, got the whole front row soaked--pi**ed off all the people wearing silk. EJ and Robi are more like a circus, where there is so much going on, you don't know which ring to watch. But hey, that's just my take. All I know is that they are more than welcome in my book, if they are serious about wanting to be part of this family of writers who have chosen to be together.

I have sent an email to Eric, since he left his email addy for us, with a list of other writing sites that I can personally vouch for, just in case EJ doesnt feel comfortable coming back with us--but still needs the help she requested earlier.

EVERYBODY ELSE: Hope everything is well with you, and MARK, sorry for talking about you like you aren't even here. :-)


Rachel Wed Jul 26 19:23:44 PDT 2000



Rhoda Wed Jul 26 19:18:41 PDT 2000


Don't give up. Keep trying. I want to know what you wanted to post.

Robi, E.J., and Erik,

Being in the middle of a move, I have hardly had time to do my own writing, let alone follow too closely what has been posted here. I must be super dense lately, for so much has gone over my head--jokes, plays on words, and other situations. There is much in the Workbook I would like to read, and I would like to know all the new people better, but I feel fortunate just to be able to survey the posts and leave a brief post myself here and there. First of all, I am willing to take you all at face value. Erik, if you claim to be a publisher, who am I to question? If you are misleading us, then shame on you. I honestly have to say that if I have erred, then my sins are of omission since I have not addressed any posts directly to any of you before.

Because I have been so busy, I admit to only have skimmed the posts and not read all as carefully as would normally do. But I do not see where Robi or E.J. have been treated badly. Of course, I could have missed something.

I am not writing to defend myself or the Notebook, in general. As Rachel said before, others have made the same accusation. I will only have to conclude that the Notebook is not necessarily for everyone. But I do hope that Robi and E.J. might stick around a little longer.

I have no wish to see anyone leave,


Americo Wed Jul 26 19:15:19 PDT 2000

Goodbye, people!

See you on my return from holidays, by mid-August.

PS. Don't pay any attention to this Eric Something and his loonies. This is a lovely, instructive, inspiring place and I never knew any "mean coldhearted" person here.

Hugs and kisses to all.

Teekay why can I not get to the posting bit? Why? Wed Jul 26 18:56:55 PDT 2000

Teekay Wed Jul 26 18:54:53 PDT 2000

Wed Jul 26 18:54:48 PDT 2000

Debra J. Palardy Wed Jul 26 18:39:01 PDT 2000

What is it April fools day already? I don't think that was a real complaint. I happen to think I finally found a great bunch of people to talk to. I was supposed to be the person with something to complain about. Of course, I was joking too. That's not the point. The point is, when people thought they had hurt my feelings they were worried. I re-read everything and found nothing to cry about. Should I go back and read some more? Maybe Erik could write the words again so we can all be clear? I didn't even see anything that would make my forehead knot up, never mind my eyes leak. Besides that, women don't really cry as much as they show on TV.

I want to say I don't see people standing around hoping to slobber all over people for a position anywhere in here. Does anyone else see that? Is this an attempt to censor us? It just sounds like manipulaion. I'm not crazy about that. Hey I just thought of another book.

"sweetie here's the best reason on the planet to say no to mysterious people who say they were going to give us something really good but we were bad and now we can't have it".

Take that!

Me again Wed Jul 26 18:22:03 PDT 2000

I scrolled back to try and find what could have upset EJ and all I found was an inquiry she had posted about making two characters that were too similar into two distinct people/personalities.

No one responded. Because you asked and obviously needed a reply, without further ado
I will answer your question.

First of all, sometimes the lack of distinction is as simple as the names of the two characters start with the same letter, which often lends confusion.
If your two characters are John and James, or Hillary and Holly, (you get the idea) it confuses personalities and the reader soon forgets whether Holly is the tall thin one and Hilllary the clunky, or vice versa; unless one character is completely developed and stands out in the reader's mind. If this is the case it is merely a matter of renaming one character and adding a bit of depth.

If the problem stems from creating backround and personal quirks for a character that stands them apart from all others, begin at the opener of the novel. Read with a keen eye. Look for every reference to that particular characters' traits, and see if there are any that are truly distinctive - it must be something that stands them apart from all the other characters in the story. If there aren't enough to give a vivid picture of them in your mind, add more. Work them in not just in one place, but spread them through the novel (a bit more in the beginning), so that the reader gets an 'evolving impression' of who the character is.

Do the same for the character that is similar to the first.

If they are both blonde haired, six feet tall with pouty lips and a lisp, change one. But beware that close friends sometimes have similar mannerisms simply because they spend a lot of time together. Like attracts like in many cases. Define each character with different pasts, different goals, different quirks, and you are off to the races.

Hope this helps.

I'm sure there is more advice up my sleeve, somewhere.


Rachel Wed Jul 26 18:03:31 PDT 2000

Hi all - I don't think it matters if the post from EJ's friend is from a NY Publisher or not. All that matters is that it is a friend who is concerned for the feelings of one that they care for.
From time to time I know that people who are new to this site have been left with the feeling that they are out in the cold and I know that there are some people on this site who have personality traits that might leave one feeling stung.
I also quirk my brow at the NY publisher thing, but like I said that point doens't matter. The fact of the matter is that people have been left feeling like they shouldn't be here. That is the shits. There is no nice way to say it.
When I came to this site years ago people made me feel welcome. They listened to my wide eyed, innocent ideas about writing and encouraged me. That is what we need to do for each other.
We should be happy for people who find publishers, we should celebrate with them. We should look at them an question. I don't question the fact that a person has found a publisher. I question the fact that a publisher would leap to a writers defence like that. I also don't think that a publisher needs to go trolling for writers. They have writers smashing down the doors.
So that is what I think of all of this. I didn't bother to go back and read over the posts of the past few days. I have just been skimming them, so I really am not sure what was or was not said. I just want to get this off my chest, because these two are not the first new people to be left feeling like this place is some sort of private club.
Hey and I didn't spell check. But know what? I don't care. A friend won't feel the need to hack and slash or make fun of me if I spell something wrong.

Erik - I am posting to you because I laugh at the idea that a person could drop a post like yours and not come back to see what sort of reactions they would get. Give me a break! If you are a publisher then shame on you for throwing your weight around. You should have come to this site as a friend to EJ not as you did. What you have done on this page could likely qualify as harrasment in the workplace. It is an abuse of power and position and you should be ashamed of yourself.

whoops Wed Jul 26 17:48:39 PDT 2000

Pardon my typo on piblushgni cumpony


Heather Wed Jul 26 17:47:21 PDT 2000

Usually confrontation makes a writer write a whole lot in a short space of time, simply because they are agitated. Look at the responses to Americo's comments in the archives.
I don't think any comments of ours would cause writer's block in anyone who was a formidable writer.

Quite the opposite, actually.

I'd like to know what books they've published by this NYC 'firm'.
Oh, there are so many publsihing companies in the sea.
Testy testy.


Heather Wed Jul 26 17:39:49 PDT 2000

I always thought that writers don't 'join' a publishing company (or is it FIRM), unless they become an editor themselves.

Very very fishy. Not willing to sign the company name? Hmmm.

I think EJ and Robi are big enough girls to handle themselves. Don't like a comment? That's too bad. Free speech you know. And choice. You don't have to read it. You don't even have to be here.

I don't recall anyone saying anything loaded enough to upset anyone else.

Unless they really are two teenage girls hoping to weave a blinding cloth big enough to cover every eye in the NB.
Only when a comment is true does it hurt.


Mark Wed Jul 26 17:19:23 PDT 2000

Erik C. Michaels. NY Publisher. I don't think so.

Hallee Wed Jul 26 16:43:21 PDT 2000 now I'm confused. Geesh - I leave for a few days and....

Mary Wed Jul 26 16:18:23 PDT 2000

Eh, I don't buy it Eric. But I don't ever remember saying anything to make EJ or Robi feel uncomfortable either. Guess I musta missed something.

M.A.Troll Wed Jul 26 15:51:55 PDT 2000

I'm a Troll, fol-de-rol,
I'm a Troll, fol-de-rol,
I'm a Troll, fol-de-rol
And I'll eat you for my supper...


Wed Jul 26 15:41:40 PDT 2000

My name is Erik C. Michaels and I have been reading everything posted on this website for the last five months. I am also an editor for a publishing firm in New York City. I've been reading this website, looking for new talent to consult with about joining the firm that I work for. The reason you haven't seen me write anything is because I am not a writer, I didn't feel I should write anything.
I was so impressed with the "family" feeling I got as I watched the posts that I even recomended it to my friend Emily Jane Waters. I've been out of town the last few weeks on buisness, arriving home this afternoon to find a message from EJ, crying on my answering machine.
So, I immediatly logged on to this website and read everything that has been posted since I left.
My only regret now is that I pushed Em so hard to try to befriend people like you. She needs more friends in the writing buisness, but not people that are mean and cold hearted like you all seem to be.
You don't know Em as a person, just as some writer who popped onto this website only knowing one person, who you all had black listed to begin with. Robi's strong enough and build of stone, I don't have to defend her, but I feel it's my responisblity as the person who informed my good friend of this website to look out for her.
Em is not only a very good friend of mine, but a very good person in general. My belief is that there is a certain level of respect you have to have for a human being for being a human being. Period. From what I have read, most of you have not demonstrated this in your postings by attacking a young girl you don't know, who has never done anything to you.
I have rethought my position on asking a few of you to join my firm as writers, I never sign anyone I don't feel is of high moral character. As new writers turn up on this site I will evaluate them and see if anyone has what I think it takes to make it at my firm. I'm not using the name of my firm, although I know most of you are fimiliar with it because I am doing this as a friend, and as an editor, using the name of firm will only cause further harassment.
I'm not going to write again, so don't bother responding to this, just think about what I wrote, I'll be back after I comfort Em to see if you all understood what you did that got her so very upset.
My only hope is that your hurtful teasing and words don't block Em's writing. She was on a roll, the book was coming along very well from what I read, I really hope you didn't block what she was working on by what you all said. it would be terrible if you did.
Enough preaching, I have a friend who need my help right now, but you wouldn't know anything about that.

Erik C. Michaels,

Hallee Wed Jul 26 14:53:15 PDT 2000


for all the newbies...the following post is from me.
(No..I don't do it on purpose)


Wed Jul 26 14:51:56 PDT 2000


Whew! I'm writing again. Between editing my trilogy (still growling) and this thing with my grandfather, it's been weeks since I've written. Actually, it's been the longest break since I started, and I almost worried about it, because I wasn't chomping at the bit to get back to my heroric fireman...but then I sat down this morning, still blurry eyed from all the lost sleep this past week, anticipating nothing more than just surfing for a while until the first cup of coffee kicked in, and BAM! The muse was back.

RHODA/HEATHER/GARIESS: I thought that I was finished getting all choked up over this whole situation. I guess I was wrong. Thank you for your words. I think and hope that you must know how much they meant to me.

RACHEL: Did you request names, or are they being given unsolicited? (grin) Whichever it may be, for a boy, I always liked Christopher James. Had our she been a he, that would have been her name. And now that I can't have any more children, I'm just going to make him some awesome hero in a book. I just haven't had one good enough for him yet. :)

EJ: I'm confused, but then, I've been gone for several days. :( There are none others more helpful than this crew here. Perhaps you didn't express yourself well enough? (There are way too many posts to go back through and read them thoroughly enough to get caught up).

JESSICA: I sat here yesterday and wrote out two very thorough, very opposite possibilities for a young girl after such a situation, and then it disappeared. I don't want to rehash it unless you are still stuck. Let me know if you haven't quite received what you were looking for, and I'll be happy to redo it.

EVERYONE: Happy Wednesday! We've made it through the hump day and are on the downhill slide now!

Happy writing!

The Old Man Wed Jul 26 14:14:35 PDT 2000

Greetings and Felicitations,

On the subject of name meanings, here are a few rather obscure ones.

Tom: Drum.
Phil: To completely utilize the area inside a container.
Jack: To throw a perpetrator against the car and say, "Spread 'em!"
Mark: What kids bring home from school.
Mickey: An alcholic drink with too large a kick.

I hope these help with the debate.

Take care,

EJ Wed Jul 26 09:48:37 PDT 2000

Okay, I have been fixing things in my writing. It's nice to know everyone else has things to do too instead of trashing people they don't know who ask for their help. Anyway, that's all my bitterness.
As for Robi, who thank goodness doesn't hold you all in a higher regard like I do, is taking a break and should be back once she feels like she can write again.
(pauses to think.)
My characters still need sorting out, but I'll find help elsewhere on that matter.
"there's more to learn in the world then what's written."
EJ Waters

Mark Wed Jul 26 08:18:21 PDT 2000

While we're on the topic of names (we were on names, weren't we?) I'd like to bring forth a few observations for your cogitation.

Names usually look and feel like words, but words are public property and names are private. We have to all agree on the sound and meaning of words, that's not the case with names. A smith (small ess) is a kind of craftsperson and a Smith (capital ess) is an individual person. I knew two colonels in the Air Force named Beale. They were brothers, one pronounced it "beel" and the other pronounced it "bell". In those days, as a young newspaperman with good education and finely-tuned verbal adjudication skills, I knew with all certainty that one of those brothers was wrong. I leave it to your conundrum-solving skills to guess which had my disapprobation.

Since then I have, obviously, changed stance on names. According to a note here in the NoteBook, gerald was a word which meant "spear thrower" (I believe "spear chucker" is the current vernacular). But today Gerald is a name, signifying no activity in particular, but singling out an individual from the crowd.

Now, "gariess" is a different matter. This is a thing which is used as a name, but which is outside the usual store of informatin we keep in our mental cabinets under the "Names" heading. It more resembles the C.B. handles we came to know a few years ago, and handles come with the notion of functionality. Most people chose handles based on some favorite activity or personal feature. I had in mind some quirky quip about gari's ess, but I don't think I'll use it. I'm glad the old chucker let free his name and settled my anxiety

Finally there's the Foo. That impressive bird presented to the National Zoo by The Peoples' Republic of China. The Foo has unusual feeding habits and, like the panda, had to be kept on a special diet. It escaped the Washington Zoo and has been heading North (we *do* capitalize the names of directions, don't we?). Because the foo likes highly acidic food, it has been ravaging tomato gardens. The acid in the foo's system is responsible for highly caustic guano. Chinese residents unlucky enough to be beneath the foo when it releases excrement have learned not to wipe it too quickly, if they do, then it simply spreads the burning goo that much farther on the skin. The best advice is to let it harden, crust over, then chip it off. Thus the proverbial saying, "If the foo shits, wear it."

Arik Wed Jul 26 01:52:47 PDT 2000

Jon - Whats up? How are you? yada yada yada. I think I will now return and give my prisez :-). I have free time again :-). Please tell me what is goin on here... :-).

Jessica Wed Jul 26 01:12:08 PDT 2000

Rachel: yes I did get your e-mail, it was very helpful. I can normaly BS my way through most things that I write about and have no clue about, but there are just some times when I need a little more than the ability to BS.


I have set a goal to write ten chapters or finish writing my book in two weeks, I realy hope that I can do it, But I have to get home first so I can type everything instead of handwriting it. Maybe I can actualy finish writing a book that I start! Maybe.


Heather Wed Jul 26 00:23:21 PDT 2000

Mary, it's not writer's block, it's a sink-hole.
Just step away from the paper, ma'am!
Everything will be all right as soon as you put down your weapon! (Your pen...)

Jerry's right. Take a few days off, breathe, relax, and wait until you are re-charged to get back to writing.

I think there is much merit in this:
Forcing yourself to write is strangling art. Art must flow of its own accord. Taking a mini-vacation (even if it's just to the park for the afternoon and then reading a book in solitude) will recharge you a surprising amount.

I know. I've just finished recharging last weekend. I actually had three days in a row off work. My little family and I went out of town, whooped it up with my husband's side of the family, relaxed so much I might have to eat some starch to feel upright again.
This is the effect of having some time away, recharging the creative batteries:
I've written twelve pages since Monday night. (And it's only Tuesday night... well, I suppose by now we must be technical and call it very early Wednesday.) I wrote 9 pages monday, and the rest tonight. I rarely write more than 4 - 5 pages at a time.

So take heart, Mary, we have all been there. Writer's block is more than just sitting down and having nothing to say. It's painful, because the creative flow is constricted.
It's depressing, because the creative flow is constricted.

And take heart, too, because it will pass!

Hallee, thoughts are still with you and your loved ones, and blessings sent.

Litter! Nice to read you back.

Jon, describe what you are wearing (or not wearing), right at this very moment.

Brain numb now. Must go turn it off for a few precious hours. Time to whip out the battery charger and plug myself in. I have a small outlet at the base of my Medulla Oblongata.

Heather ~ bzzzt bzzzt zzzzzzzz

mary Tue Jul 25 21:10:44 PDT 2000

JERRY: thanks, probaby I am just trying too hard. :-)

think i'll take your advice and lock up my pen for a few days. c-ya

Jerry A.G. Ericsson Tue Jul 25 20:56:04 PDT 2000

Mary, I can sympathize with you, just went through the same thing myself. Went for over a month writing NOTHING. Not even any commentary in themestream. Then last week I went camping with my family for three days. This opened up my creativity again, and I have two new shorts in the making, one of which I can't seem to end. Who knows it may just turn into a novella, or, god forbid, a novel. Sounds like you just need a break away from it all for awhile.

Write on

MaryNOTdotcalm Tue Jul 25 19:48:35 PDT 2000

i am so sick of not being able to write anything. i just sit here like an idiot backspacing over wasted words. what has happened to me? do i have too many projects on the go at once...not enough, maybe? i am uninspired. uninterested. i feel like i am forcing myself down my character's throats trying to get them to open up to me. they are being very inhospitable. to top it all off i didnt win the writer's digest 'your assignment' for march which i was sure i had in my pocket. i still like what i sent better than the winners' contributions, but that i can shake off. i don't write to win or be famous, but it sure wouldnt hurt. i think i need a break, but i am not sure. will that make it worse..that is what i fear.

i almost feel better having just said that. if my husband or family ask me how things are going, i just say fine, or great...when in reality i haven't inked enough paper in the last month to warrant turning on the printer. sorry about all the complaining...i just hope this passes soon. i can't even call this writer's block, because it isn't that. it is something else. i can't possibly be the only person here who has ever experienced i will take comfort in the fact that you are all still here..writing your little hearts out.

on a lighter note, i hope you all have a pleasant evening. good luck with whatever you are working on, and with all the trials and tribulations of daily life. c-ya

Debra J. Palardy Tue Jul 25 19:17:58 PDT 2000

If you want to know what kind of sense of humor I do have I will tell you my favorite joke of all time.

What happens when you don't pay your excorist?

(you mightsay) I don't know what?

^^^^^^^^ that should represent waiting for me to answer!

You get repossessed!!!!

yuk yuk yuk

Rhoda notice the punctuation? more yuks?

Jon Tue Jul 25 18:14:06 PDT 2000

Before I go to a spa to clean my nose and lungs from the pollution of civilization, here are my prizes (do not confound them with Arik's prizes):

Funniest sentence: "Did you self-publish this book or did you do it for a publisher?" (Gary's interpretation).

All comments to Gary's clearly humorous approach to Rhoda's original question are the worst sentences (ever).

The best sentence is Jerry's one about going bananas.

My see you sometime thought:

Forget your mums, your dads and your spouses (all of them, if you have many), but do not forget your English. Your parents and spouses would not forgive you if you did. Oh, people, you sometimes make me cry.

Speech to the Empire when I come back. Just hold your breath. And behave yourselves.

Rhoda Tue Jul 25 17:48:08 PDT 2000

Now I find myself apologizing profusely. Sorry, Gary. It did go right over my head. I feel a little small now reacting the way I did. I suppose there is much that can be said for your sense of humor, but I would say don't ever change it for the sake of people like me who take themselves a little too seriously at times.

Now I get it, and I am laughing. I cannot believe that I am so dense.

Still friends, I hope.


Debra J. Palardy Tue Jul 25 17:31:56 PDT 2000

Hi Rhoda and GS:

I thought I was clear about knowing it was a joke by commenting on your punctuation. I can take a joke and give one as well. Don't worry about me.

Also, that means if you want to be mad at me you will have to be real clear. I might just laugh and not realize it.

I have some true funny stories to share soon. I have twins that are two and two other kids that are 9 and 11 in the house. My husband and dogs are also competing with the kids to see who can be the biggest drain.

I live in Rhode Island and am very disturbed by this missing life guard. She was so young and her mother did everything right by dropping her off herself. She must feel so bad right now she probably can't see daylight.


Tue Jul 25 16:57:53 PDT 2000

Calm down Nostradamus, it's not the end of the world.

Laura Tue Jul 25 16:54:33 PDT 2000

Prometheus 4 is up....

gariess Tue Jul 25 16:40:19 PDT 2000

You people are making a big deal over Frazier's ex-wife. What is it about this name?


Gariess Tue Jul 25 16:35:08 PDT 2000

I must get quickly to the business of expalining to RHODA and DEBRA that I was only being a clown when I lifted that quote about doing "... it for a publisher." I get very nervous when people respond to a something I said as a funny, in a real serious way. I can't help it. I just can't leave stuff like that alone. Once a woman freind sent a political parody to myself and some others. I sent a reply by return email to the woman and the others. The woman was greatly offended and has not spoken to me for more than a year. The others, however, recognized that the reply was a refitted version of the very parody the woman had sent to begin with. They told me it was very funny, but the initiator of the event still doesn't believe I was not reproaching her.

Sometimes a person can act a part too well. Ernest Borgnine accelerated his career years ago with the role of a sadistic seargant in the film, From Here To Eternity, in which he tortured an Italian-American character played by Frank Sinatra. Borgnine later told of getting booed off the steets of an Italian neihborhood when he made a visit to New York. Sometimes success has dubious results.


Here's a hug right back at you. I should have charity in my heart, I know, but it is very hard to find charity for one who would hurt a child. In my state a young lifegaurd was taken by a miscreant last month and has been the object of an extensive search and investigation. She hasn't been found but a very likely suspect has been arrested for assaulting a woman across the state line in Rhode Island. The Cops like this guy for the Molly Bish dissapearance so we may have ourselves a perp. (Heather, how's that for NYPD dialogue?) Seeing the girls mother making her pleas on TV just makes my heart sink. It has to be the worst... the absolute worst.

Sombody say something funny.



Rachel Tue Jul 25 16:15:17 PDT 2000

Mary - So yah think I'm sweet (wicked grins). That is exactly what I wanted - BWAH HA HA HA HA!! I'm in truth evil and wicked (grins and laughter). I don't want you to think that I'm all surgar and spice. I do have a temper. I just don't display it very often.

Mary Tue Jul 25 15:23:03 PDT 2000

Hmmmm...I'm thinkin' maybe I gave the wrong impression of my relationship with my Mom. RACHEL, you are a lot sweeter and much less volatile than me, that is probably why you don't catch the flack that I do. I am sure that I deserve every remark that she has ever made...just wanted to set that right. Write-on!!

The Old Man Tue Jul 25 15:19:19 PDT 2000

Greetings and Felicitations,

Knowing who I am, the old man with the knowledge of ages in my head and at my fingertips. The source of information for all who ask and the bringer of that which pertains, please take a look at the above high-lighted web site for information on Lilith.

As for the posting of typed material into the workbook, type your words on whatever program you like, click and drag over the material you wish to import and release. By right-clicking on your mouse, a small menu will appear with the word "Copy" on the list. Click on "Copy" and your highlighted area will be saved to "Notebook". When you arrive at the notebook, activate the cursor and right-click again. The same small menu will appear. This time, click on the word "Paste" and lo, you have accomplished your task. This also works for anything you find on the internet. Pictures and text can be manipulated to or from any document you happen to find with the high-light/right-click method.

Allow me to add that in the time that I have been with you here it has been my priviledge to get to know you all. My thanks is added to the rest of you to Jack for his work in the creation and updating of this marvelous place. My heart is made anew with your banter (and cackles).

Remember this, my friends; If we simply expect without giving thanks, we will never create anything ourselves that is worthy of thanks.

Take care,

Rachel Tue Jul 25 15:16:13 PDT 2000

Mary - I don't think that having my mum on site would inhibit me at all. I know she wouldn't give me flack. We learned long ago that we don't agree on many things. This is fine. We respect each others views and opinions (this took time - grins). We will listen to one another and then agree to disagree. My mum seems to think a lot of me. You want to see a parent go on about their child... Gezz, don't get my mother started (laughter). There are times when I do not think I am deserving of such high regard. I guess what I'm saying is that if my mum came on by the site I would think it was a riot. Only thing is my mum is a reverend and doesn't really have a lot of spare time. She is busy with her church and her education. My mum is one very cool lady. You would be fortunate people if you got to make her acquaintance. She is one of those inspirational people that just makes you sit back and say "Wow"
I think that will be just about enough of my I love my mummy post(grin, wink). Gezz, I think I'm missing my mum...

Mary Tue Jul 25 13:39:37 PDT 2000

RACHEL and TEEKAY: My Mom visits almost all of the sites that I post at and I am always catching flack about something I said, did, or otherwise contributed. Which is precisely why I never mentioned that I post here at all, what with all the debates we have, I would never hear the end of it. I love her dearly, and she is just being my Mom, I will miss her terribly when she is gone and try not to ever take her for granted. But...knowing that she might read what I write somewhere, I tend to hold back more on other sites. Not so here...very liberating. Smiles to everyone! Have a great day!

Jerry Ericsson Tue Jul 25 11:58:59 PDT 2000

PS doing it that way does leave room for forgetting to fill out the top portion as I did in my last post, sorry about that.


Tue Jul 25 11:56:30 PDT 2000

Valerie - here is the way I post in the workbook:

First, I of course type up the story, then after all the re-write is done, and it is ready, I click on edit, then on select all. Next I click on edit again, and click on copy. Then leaving my word open, I click on explorer, and of course go to my favorites then to the workbook. Once there, I right-click on the Text area, and click on paste. Leaving both the word and explorer open at the same time seems to work best. Next I fill out the top portion with my name and so forth. Hope this works for you. I used to use Word Perfect, and it worked the same way if I remember right.


Rachel Tue Jul 25 11:49:49 PDT 2000

Valerie - To post in the workbook try to copy and paste. That is what I do. You go to your WP open your story, click on edit, select all, request copy,then open up the workbook, enter your name, click the mouse at the top of the text box, go to edit, select paste and your story should drop into the workbook text box.

Hope that works for you.

Rachel danolson Tue Jul 25 11:45:25 PDT 2000

Valerie Tue Jul 25 11:35:13 PDT 2000

Well, my story is ready - please, any tips on how in the *(^)*&%*)&% I post it on the Workbook? I thought there was a tip around her somewhere someone had mentioned. It's on a MS Word file and I was thinking I should copy and paste it but it doesn't work when I sign on. Technical types, take pity on me??!

Jessica, here's my take on it. A twelve year old girl would be hysterical to lose her mom at that period in life. If the father abandons her too, I would think that a little person like that would either retreat into some sort of fantasy world, or just withdraw completely, or, depending on the personality type - be prone to fits of rage, meanwhile searching for "safe" adults elsewhere. Losing loved ones that young would imprint loss so deeply on a child's mind that I would think that it would be impossible to trust too many others, or trust that life could ever be decent again, or trust in a higher power, or trust that happiness would last. I think it would be likely that a child like this may grow to have a distorted view of love, and have trouble forming normal relationships with others - especially boys/men.I think fear would be a major motivator to distance herself from emotional risks unless there was some major life event, such as a birth of her own child, that would cause her to re-think her position. Just what I would imagine to be realistic. That's my 2 cents anyway!

Hope everyone else is well today. I am finally done with a story that I thought would kill me and look at that... I am still alive!

Take Care-


Rachel Tue Jul 25 10:35:23 PDT 2000

Jessica - I sent you an e-mail. I have had some problems with my server. Let me know if you don't receive the note.
Take care you,

Litter Tue Jul 25 10:27:02 PDT 2000

Hi all,

Have been somewhat 'tired' over the past few days and I forgot to say that I have left an 2,700 word offering on the Short Story workbook. Got a bit bored with lying down at the weekend…

And now, with the recent talk of the latest Harry Potter books, something that I thought might be of interest --

How Harry Potter Became an American by Peter H. Gleick in The New York Times

We Americans have an unhealthy habit of Americanising anything unfamiliar, says Peter H. Gleick. Take Harry Potter. My family was as excited as any about the release of J.K.Rowling’s latest book. But we were dismayed to discover that the publisher of the US edition had decided to translate the book from “English” into “American” on the assumption that we were all too feeble to enjoy it in its original language. The changes range from alternative spellings (“gray” for “grey”), to substituted words or phrases (“pitch” is changed to “field,” “fortnight” to “two weeks”). By far the worst alterations, however, transform “truly English experiences or objects into something distinctly American”. Instead of “eating crumpets for tea”, for instance, Harry is described as “eating English muffins during a meal”. This is a travesty. Do we really want our children to think there is no difference between the two? Protecting them from occasional misunderstandings or trips to the dictionary fosters the pernicious notion “that other cultures are, or should be, the same as theirs”.

Have fun y'all

Ciao for now,


Jessica Tue Jul 25 10:22:50 PDT 2000

I've got a question that maybe y'all can help me with.
I have a characer in my book, she is twelve years old who's mother and younger sister were brutally murdered, and, in her eyes, her father has abandoned her to live with a foster family of sorts. What kind of emotional trauma would she be going through? I have never lost anybody realy close to me, so I have no idea how to write this next part in my book. any comments would be appreaciated.

Rachel Tue Jul 25 09:18:14 PDT 2000

All - Wow! It took some time to catch up on all of the posts. I think that I have answered everyone. If I missed you give me a kick in the backside (grins)! Oh, and I am aware of the fact that there are some sentence fragments in this post. I left them there because I felt like it! Besides my brain in still sleeping so be nice to me.

Americo - My "interesting state" I like that! It is a very interesting state. Everything is different. It is a fun and exciting time. John and Joanne will be on the list. Thanks for the public congratulations. Hugs for you!

Arik - I believe that as the character of Harry ages that the writing moves along with him.

Christi - I am full of excitement about having a baby after 30. I am now 31. I will be 32 when the little unborn joins us. I think differently now than when I was in my 20's, so I am experiencing things in new ways. It's not that one pregnancy is any better than the other is. They are all wonderful. I'm having a lot of fun (big smiles).

Debra - Welcome!

E.J. - Welcome!

Garries - They have not found out who set up the play area at our park. It is awful to think of a person that sick wandering around. The best thing that we can do in our area is to be aware and to make our children aware. I send you a hug. Thanks for your concern.

Hallee - Thanks for the congratulations!

Jack - Thank you for the good wishes.

Jerry Ericsson - Thanks for the congratulations. I also was camping last week. It was great! Lots of hikes, swims and a storm! Wow and how. The light show was amazing, the thunder rocked! I fell asleep in my tent with the fly open. I love to watch storms. I woke up when it started to pour rain on my face (grins). Thanks for the name suggestions.

Mark - Thanks for the hugs (smiles). I think that just because is always a good reason.
I don't watch much television, but the last time I checked things out the character of Ross was doing as well as his character ever does.
I send you hugs (big smiles). I'll add the names to the list.
Know what? I'm a major list maker. I'm a person who has lists of lists (grins).

Mary - I do have a few names that I am very fond of. I am waiting to see if anyone can come up with them (grins)! I'll be sure to let you know if somebody hits on one of the names.

Robi - I'm not sure if I have welcomed you. So… WELCOME!

Rhoda - Thank you for the congratulations. I am sure the pregnancy and the birth will be a walk in the park (big grins and a wink).

Teekay - Does your mum really visit the site? That is pretty neat. My mum is thinking about it. When I saw E.J. I thought that it might be my mum. She is Evelyn Jean and used to be called E.J. After reading some of the E.J. posts I am pretty sure that isn't my mum (grins). I say pretty sure because sometimes my mum can pitch me a hell of a curve.
My mother and two brothers are writers. My mum has a couple of novels sitting collecting dust. My baby brother writes sarcastic, political stuff. He recently had the inspiration sucked from his soul by too many school assignments. My elder brother is a poet. All of my sisters express their artistic side through music and song. Why am I telling you all of this? I'm not sure (grins). Hope I didn't put you to sleep.

The Old Man - "My happy burden" Love that one too! The hug was very nice. It didn't hurt at all (smiles).
Thank you for such kind words about myself. Thank you for such lovely thoughts for my little unborn.
The names are very nice. I guess there is no way for you to know that all of my sibs who share the same father and mother were names from the bible. Our names are David, Rachel, Naomi and Rebecca (in order of birth). My baby brother is Byron. My baby sister is Ashley. Not biblical names. At least not that I know of.
Hugs for you and thanks for the congratulations.

TO ANY NEW FACES THAT I MISSED - Welcome! Welcome! Welcome!!!!!!

Rhoda Tue Jul 25 09:05:38 PDT 2000


It flew right over my head, also. I did not mean any offense; I was curious. I might ask the question again to someone else at some future date, but be assured I will never ask you.

I will have to buy an Emily Post or Miss Manners book, scour the thing and find out where I erred, because even after your explanation, I am still not sure what I asked or said that was so offensive. Perhaps if I had the proper amount of sensitivity, I would instinctively know.

I have the utmost respect for people who self-publish. Many great books were originally self-published. Furthermore, there is nothing wrong in finding a publisher to publish one's book.


I absolutely meant no insult at all.


Tue Jul 25 08:03:38 PDT 2000

PS, if there were a relationship between the witness and the suspect, then that relationship would be explored in depth.

Jerry Ericsson Tue Jul 25 08:02:05 PDT 2000

Heather, I guess that would depend on how the interview were going. If the witness would let slip some reason for delving into their background, then it would be explored, or if one of the responding officers brought some prior incident to the attention of the investigator, then that would be explored. Otherwise, it would be handled in much the same way as with a suspect, the opening of the interview would go generally into a little background, just to make the witness more comfortable speaking with the officer, then get into the incident that is being investigated. Most of the time, and investigator plays it by ear, so to speak.


Debra J. Palardy Tue Jul 25 06:25:40 PDT 2000


That whole did I self-publish or did I do "it" for a publisher went right over my head. I have to thank GS for making it turn around and fly right back and in this time.

I will assume that it is one of those funny things that was born out of the frustration of publishers sending great material back unopened and worse, never hearing one single word. It is a joke right? I feel that punctuation will make sure that next time your point as amusing as it is won't be missed.

I have two sons and I am making sure that they know that girls are very sensitive. My youngest son told one of his friends right in front of me, that my book makes you loose your girlfiend. He is only 9. I quickly told him that it is not ture. It makes sure that you have only the longest kind of fun with your girlfriend, instead of working for the next twenty years for just a few minutes of fun. He didn't get that part but he went away feeling like he heard the word fun and everything will be okay.

Are we all friends now?


Heather Tue Jul 25 00:22:19 PDT 2000

Thanks Jerry, it did help!
One note: I was wondering about the questioning of a witness - how indepth an interview would go into their backround, to give the police a good idea of say, whether or not their background might cloud their judgement (or memory) of the incident?

Your answers are very helpful!
Thanks again...:o>

P.S. Gariess, right there on that point. The lonely writers who have no social life save the post office visits must let off steam.

Teekay! I noticed that since you wrote about the Highschool Games You Used To Play, two newbies have disappeared. Hmmmm. :o> I'm delighted with the outcome, though shhhhhh!
Don't tell anyone else ok?


Gariess Mon Jul 24 21:46:19 PDT 2000


Even 20/20 hindsight is not so easy through the red eyes of the travel-weary. There seems to be a number of people in recent times who have shared some of the hard passages of life with us in the Notebook. I think it says something about the forum that we can come here to unburden some of what we have to endure. I like the idea that the NB is a place where we can make each other laugh as well . This, I believe is a good thing. My best wishes to you, Valerie.


Jerry Ericsson Mon Jul 24 21:40:47 PDT 2000


Vacation did get me back to writing, have finished drafts on two short stories today, besides getting an old computer ready for the second hand shop, and mowing the yard, guess I needed the break. May post one of the shorts when I have the finished product.


Jerry Ericsson Mon Jul 24 21:35:44 PDT 2000

Heather, since you asked here, I will give my reply here also:

Oh yes. Jerry! Need to know what an interrogation room in the station/precinct is called (or did I nail it already?)

Most departments would shy away from any reference to interrogation. The word seems to give defense attorneys way too much ammunition when they have the officer on the stand. (Now officer explain exactly how you INTERROGATED my client!) The rooms are generally called interview rooms, or referred to as conference rooms. (Interview rooms in most departments)

Do most interrogation (questioning) rooms have one-way mirrors? If other rooms are full (say, for questioning witnesses) is it possible that they would interview a witness in an interrogation (whatever you call it) room?

Most interview rooms do have one-way mirrors, even in my early days as a patrolman back in the early 70's, in the small town here in SD, with a 4 man department, we had a small interview room with a small one way glass window. These are generally used not only by other officers to witness the interview, but also, in case the officer has to leave the room for a short time, another officer can watch the suspect so he doesn't harm himself.

When questioning a witness, how much background information on them do the police usually require or ask for?

The more the better, but it depends on what crime is being investigated. When I was interviewing suspects, I began with general background, such as where they came from, were they married, next of kin and so forth, then using this information gathering to get them talking in general, I would move on to the reason they were brought in to the interview. Of course, a murder suspect would be interviewed more in depth then say a burglar, or thief.

And, lastly, would a Constable be re-assigned to another beat (or what have you) if they were getting too close to situations that they were called in on repeatedly?
(eg: On the downtown beat, two Officers respond to calls of domestic violence at a particular address on a frequent basis. One of these two Officers gets emotionally involved in that (ongoing) case.)

Only if this were brought to the attention to the officers supervisors. As you may know partners develop such close relationships that it would be rare indeed for one officer to bring this fact to a supervisor. Now if say the spouse were to complain to a superior then action would be taken, it could range from a day or two off without pay, to as you suggest, a transfer to a different beat. The officer would probably be transferred to a different beat in the same precinct, a transfer to a different precinct would be rare for such an infraction.

Hope this helps


gariess Mon Jul 24 21:26:41 PDT 2000

Again, I am compelled to quote one of the ladies on the subject of influencing publisher's. Rhoda asked Debra the follwing which is lifted directly from the page and pasted (I told you guys you'd be sorry you taught me that): "Did you self-publish this book or did you do it for a publisher?"

Really, Rhoda. Do you think if Debra did it for a publisher that she would tell everyone in the forum about it? My opinion is that your question, even put privately, would be out of line although that would be between you and her.


Mon Jul 24 21:10:30 PDT 2000

Debra and Heather,

As one who was a boy such as Debra describes, I would have to say that the means may justify the end when it comes to keeping young people who are under powerful hormonal influences from creating more young people.

Let the girls go to the coffee shops and tennis courts where they can play "glamorous grown-up" games to their hearts content and to no serious consequences... much better. And let those frisky, young pups take cold showers (for all the good those cold showers did me.)


P.S. Mon Jul 24 20:43:16 PDT 2000

Jerry - could use some of your expertise again!

Oh, so many fascinating things I want to know about cops. Did I happen to mention a man in uniform just turns me - uh, whoops!
I got away from that grappling hold and kicked me in the groin.

Ahem~ where was I?

Oh yes. Jerry! Need to know what an interrogation room in the station/precinct is called (or did I nail it already?)

Do most interrogation (questioning) rooms have one-way mirrors? If other rooms are full (say, for questioning witnesses) is it possible that they would interview a witness in an interrogation (whatever you call it) room?

When questioning a witness, how much backround information on them do the police usually require or ask for?

And, lastly, would a Constable be re-assigned to another beat (or what have you) if they were getting too close to situations that they were called in on repeatedly?
(eg: On the downtown beat, two Officers respond to calls of domestic violence at a particular address on a frequent basis. One of these two Officers gets emotionally involved in that (ongoing) case.)

Thanks in advance for your help, Jerry! :o)
I could have emailed you, but I'm being lazy. After all, I was already here, in the NB.
Is laziness next to anything but dust rhinos? (As opposed to 'cleanliness is next to Godliness'.)

And to all the purse-luggers: I think I just might have to tap in on an interesting market - purse cleaning, $2
(extra-large handbags with unidentifyable gunk covering the bottom six inches are $5)!

Get in line, everyone.


Heather Mon Jul 24 20:29:39 PDT 2000

just stopping in before my wrestling match with chapter 5.

everything I thought of to say just ran away on me.
You and your grandfather are in my prayers.
I am really glad that the second doctor found the real problem before surgery. It's been said that God works in mysterious ways; God also works wonders. Let's just keep that in mind for your grandfather. Two out of two would be great.

Back to the match:
I think I'm winning but I haven't totally kicked myself out of the ring yet. She's a real ape when it comes to grappling holds, and me, well... Let's not say how many times I've wanted to pin me. Still get thrown.

I might be wandering in the wild brush of insanity. It sure is a nice evening for a stroll.


Debra J. Palardy Mon Jul 24 19:13:44 PDT 2000

Hi All:

Thanks for your comments. I did self-publish. My book is short really short. I took a chance of making myself look like I couldn't think of anything else to say. Nothing could further from the truth. I kept it short to make my point and get out. I don't believe that reading that is not required of teenagers should or can be lengthy. I wanted these girls to remember every word when they thought of my book. What I did not say in words, I made up for in the picture of the boy and girl. I wanted them to finish my book and read it again and again.

I added blank lined pages in the back to accomplish three things. I repeat 100 lines these boys might say, so I wanted to make anything else that they say suspect as well. So I asked them to write words they may have heard that are not in the book. It is my hope that those words will be suspect as well. The second thing I hope to accomplish with the lined pages is to bring them back to the book in the hopes of them reading something again. The third thing I hope to accomplish is to make each copy as unique to each girl as the girl herself.

I think that in order to self publish you have to really believe in your work. I hear the words of people who do believe in their work. All you guys and gals sound like great writers. It is really scary but that is where the believe part comes in handy. I went with Dorrance Publishing. They are out of Pennslyvania. The phone number is 1-412-288-4543. I do really like them.



Rhoda Mon Jul 24 18:00:44 PDT 2000


I am so glad the doctor's found your grandfather's true problem. I will continue to be in prayer for your grandfather and your family.

Hang in there,


Valerie Mon Jul 24 17:47:58 PDT 2000


Nice book! Congratulations on your accomplishment! I thought the description was great and the review was not bad either. Just wanted you to know I checked it out. When I was a teenager, I did every stupid thing known to man (or boys in some cases) and I can honestly say I was not prepared for some of the experiences I encountered. I did wind up married to my high school boyfriend years later, so it all worked out in my case because he's even cuter now than he was then.

Perhaps this book can fill in the gaps for those who don't feel comfortable talking to their mothers or other trusted adults. Good job.


Hallee Mon Jul 24 17:39:31 PDT 2000

Hi all! Thank you so much for all the prayers and words of support. My tears are not all from laughing so hard at gariess's story about the light bulbs. My grandfather is frail, but his mind is stronger than I had anticipated - he even spoke to my daughter once on the phone. He went in on the Wednesday before his surgery to get his head marked and one more MRI done. A new doctor looked at the results and stopped the surgery. Apparently, there was no tumor. He has an enlarged vein that is leaking blood, forming a large clot that looks like a tumor. If they hadn't have done one more test, when they cut his head, it would have killed him. I reiterate my thanks for the prayers. They are going to treat this vein with radiation, and as frail as he is, I worry about that, but they have to try. The blood continues to leak and continues to put pressure on his brain. He actually had a mini-stroke a few hours before I left yesterday. So, I'm sure we'll know more towards the end of the week.

Welcome to all the new folks. I couldn't even begin to give individual welcomes, my eyes are burning from lack of sleep as it is. I look forward to reading whatever posts are in the work book.

WAY too much went on in the short week that I was gone for me to even try to respond to any of it.

Oh, Rachel, congrats. How exciting for you. And Heather, the contents of my purse scare ME, I can't imgaine what it would do to some of you.

I'm off to bed. I haven't slept since I woke up yesterday morning. I know now the wisdom in NOT assuring the airline's customer service representative that a red-eye flight would be just fine. (sigh) They say hind-sight's twenty-twenty.

Good night all. Thank you again. The words offered were so touching.


Mark Mon Jul 24 17:10:56 PDT 2000

SASQUATCH -- Good to see your words in the NoteBook. A rorschach is an ink-blot test. Try this.

You now have an ink-blot image. That's all it is, a blot of ink smeared randomly on paper. But rubbing the blot inside the fold gives the image an element of unity because it has two similar sides. The thing has both randomness and unity.
Look at it. Does it resemble anything you can identify? If you think it does resemble something, you can be assured that the resemblance is wholly in your imagination. The thing is, after all, a random smear on a folded paper. The man who thought to use such images to reach into our imaginations was named Rorschach. What you report from such an image is more an indication of what's going on inside you than what's on the page.
Why does Howard see all the images the same? Well, that's a bit of fiction from a very old joke book. One I'm sure Howard has read.

Rhoda Mon Jul 24 15:37:35 PDT 2000


I found your book on Amazon. It seems a very useful tool. I believe in what you are doing. All anyone has to do is check out the media and not too carefully and see the impression it gives of girls/women. These boys are only repeating what they hear from the pop-culture. On the other hand, many girls are playing out their pre-subscribed roles also. Though the girl has a greater price to pay, boys are paying it too though in more subtle ways.

Actually, I think that parents need to be more influential in their teen-agers' lives, not by putting down stringent rules, but by realizing that their children, despite all their bravado, need help and guidence. Furthermore, I think too many girls are put into situations they are too young and immature to handle because parents are absent either physically or emotionally (same for boys). Anyway, I am not quite there yet, and I have yet to see how my theories pan out. But I do remember those years and how difficult they were.

Did you self-publish this book or did you do it for a publisher? If you are self-published, I would like to know more about the story behind this book, your journey with it, and how it came to be published. I know one individual who is self-publishing and marketing her book on the Internet via Amazon. Her books are extremely good. I think for some people that might be the way to go. I am afraid that I do not have the desire to do such a thing, but always in the back of my mind, I wonder if not someday I might try it.

Half my house is immaculately clean, and oh, I feel so good about that. I really hope I can write a few pages this evening. That would be a treat.

Happy writing,


Mary Mon Jul 24 13:43:51 PDT 2000

DEBRA: Just checked out your book at Amazon. Very cool. Congratulations!!

Heather Mon Jul 24 09:39:17 PDT 2000

Debra - you are right, I got the wrong impression!

Thanks for clearing that up.

Sasquatch - great to see your furry self pop in again!
Write some poetry for the NB, will you? Miss your verse.


Debra J. Palardy Mon Jul 24 09:14:27 PDT 2000

Hi Heather:

You might have gotten the wrong impression. My book tells girls what is to come when they start spending time alone with boys. Some boys maybe not all boys put on a major production to make a girl think that she is in the middle of a passionate and intimate affair. She sometimes feels that all the rules have changed just for her because it is so intense. My book describes this major production. It tells the girls the words to look out for and if she hears them that she is to be forewarned that it is a trick that has been used for generations.

I love men and don't feel that we are higher but it might help any young girl to think of these boys as not their equals but rather someone who is trying to distract them from an empowered future. Unfortunately, the girl has many for consquences than a boy when she engages in teen sex.



sasquatch Mon Jul 24 09:12:21 PDT 2000

Hello all I have been lurking in many places and I have seen humans persons but they have not seen me. I see there are new persons here in this place welcome from sasquatch. Mark person what is rorschasch test and why is Howard person seeing the pictures as same? Howard person you are near to where sasquatch was come alive in mountains but I moved away from there when a small Yeti. I must go.

Heather Mon Jul 24 09:00:30 PDT 2000

Valerie - post what you've got!
It doesn't have to be finished if help finishing or improving it is what you're looking for.
That's why it's a workshop :-)

Debra - I don't have teenage children yet, (age 7 and 3)
but I was curious to know why you feel that men must be made subordinate to women? Women and men may be a little different, but I always thought putting someone else down didn't raise you up above them, it just made you wrong.

Maybe I got the wrong impression of your book.

Teekay - don't discredit wonderful games. My best friend Jennifer and I used to do that in highschool. We used to sling tennis rackets and sport the short white skirts, bobbie socks and little preppie shirts, chatting amongst ourselves about our latest conquests of the court. If other people had actually seen us on the tennis court, they would have laughed until they lost bladder control. The games only lasted until the few first weeks of grade 11. Jennifer and I had to part ways - she left for the great beyond on a mack truck train, and I fell to a more serious life. I spent years yearning for the innocence of that tennis court and those short white skirts.

Valerie Mon Jul 24 08:18:37 PDT 2000

Well, I am over being frustrated - sort of. I was thinking of making a symbol, like a big gnarly frowning face with glasses on so I can call myself - the artist, formerly known as Valerie.

So, can I post a half done short story on the workbook or does it have to be finished? Can I ask for feedback on specific things? Just wondering.

Hope you are having a fun writing day. Take Care,

Debra J. Palardy Mon Jul 24 06:31:49 PDT 2000

Hi All:

You can see my book with the cover and all on

The other book .coms don't have as much detail yet.

Just hit the word Sweetie and a short list of books will come up.

Select the one that has the full title which is
"sweetie here's the best reason on the planet to say no to your boyfriend".

That should do it. I know it will help any girl who reads it.

I have funny stories to share but I am waiting until I get the nerve. That's because they are true.


Gariess Mon Jul 24 00:17:50 PDT 2000


You and your friend, when you were just young girls, were playing wondrous games. Can you guess how much those visits to the coffee shops honed and shaped your imaginary powers for these later days in your life? Surely, you don't think that interesting women and bright writers emerge out of uninteresting girls of good sense and refined behavior. Cringe if you must, but I propose a salute to young girls everywhere. May they never stop playing those silly games.


Gariess Sun Jul 23 23:53:58 PDT 2000

Hi Jerry,

"It isn't what it looks like". Isn't that that the patent line for the character in the sitcom who is caught in a guilty situation?

Anyhow, the way it started was I was changing this light bulb, see... well, let's skip all the tiresome details. What happened was I wrote some funny stuff about light bulbs and somebody laughed, and then somebody's cat thought he was crazy. Then Teekay wrote some funny stuff, and I wrote more stuff, and Teekay wrote more stuff. In the meantime some other people laughed and they wrote some funny stuff, and now you think I smoked some funny stuff, but I didn't, not because my doctor says not to smoke any stuff at all because I never do anything he says, anyway. I do have hay fever, however, and I've been sniffing a bit, lately.

Besides all that, Marynotdotcalm said she would do anything for anybody who is a publisher, even if it was nasty. Or words to that effect, anyway, and now she's trying to weasel out of it, by sticking her tongue out at me. As if we don't have enough silly juveniles around here.

Right about now I'm waiting for Hayden to come driving up in the Porsche and put us all on detention. That is all of us except you and The Old Man because you've been away and TOM has senior citizen diplomatic immunity.

Also, I don't even know what Sandra Bullock looks like, I was just trying to say something silly and cite some desirable young women for the sake of illustration. I might be long in the tooth-the one I still have left-but it isn't teeth that really matter in romantic matters between the aged and pathetic and the young and the restless. It just takes an out of control imagination on the part of one and lethargic indifference on the part of the other. And I have plenty of lethargic indifference. As far as that goes, I believe it was Molly Pitcher who said to George Washington, "Wow, George, they told me it was your teeth that were made of wood."

So don't be too surprised about anything you hear, and anything you read in this Notebook could be highly imaginative. At least we hope so.



Christi Sun Jul 23 20:44:39 PDT 2000

Of course the large bit of silliness below is mine. Take me away, officer.

Sun Jul 23 20:42:57 PDT 2000

Hello everyone!

Okay, these posts are a bit aged. I keep writing responses and getting interrupted, then waiting until the next day to continue. But I've worked on this for so long that I'm not willing to delete it even though it may not make sense anymore. Moi, not make sense? Surely I jest. Everyone knows that Christi's is the finest, most perfectly logical mind to have ever graced the Notebook. Sheeeesh, I can't even WRITE that with a straight face.

I'm so thrilled that you're pregnant! I will have to think very hard about the names I will submit for the contest.
Congratulations, girl! I just had my first after I turned thirty, and can tell you it was a wonderful time in life to have a baby.

Binaca is breath spray. You know, for that 'not so fresh' feeling. :)

Geeze, our purses AND our diaper bags sound similar. I could probably survive for three weeks in the wilderness with nothing but my purse and diaper bag.

Hands up! Gimme your wallet! I don't believe you were kidding about the contents of said wallet. ;0)

Jessica, Debra, Valerie, Robi, AND EJ (whew!),
Welcome! Jump right in,and don't be afraid to give critiques and/or post your writing. That's what you're here for, right? It helps to post in the Notebook that you've posted a story or poem in the Workbook, otherwise it might not get noticed for a while.

Hi Allein! You should get that "Ham-cam" thing going; it would be neato!

I'd like to thank you and Pussy for convincing Jon into letting me keep my position. I didn't know I was still on the payroll!
Love and smooches.

Have a nice trip, Jerry, and come back soon.

May your icebox magically regain its powers overnight. Yes, I can grant wishes, but only very important ones.

Dear Teekay's Mum,
Your daughter is a complete loon. Are you a loon as well, or does she get it from her father? Anyway, just wanted to let you know that although she is looney, we love Teekay to bits, so please let her keep coming here to play.

I'm here to egg you on. Go man, go! Just one itsy bitsy question. Aren't you a bit . . . ummm . . . long in the tooth for Sandra Bullock? ;) That's okay, I hear she goes for the codgerly type. Giggle. KIDDING!

Hi Jack,
It's nice to see you coming around again.

Hey, you DO have a sense of humor! I offer my most sincere apologies (such as they are).

I got it, I got it! I got your book! It looks to be very good and I'm salivating all over my pajamas at the prospect of reading it tonight. Thank you for sending it to me. By the way, WHERE ARE YOU?!

Just try to consider yourself lucky that your story is flowing. Don't worry about the details; you add those in during the editing anyway, silly!

Heeeeeaaaaather! Where are you, Heather? :(

Now, EJ and Robi,
I must insist that you girls play fair. If you don't have enough gum for everyone in the class, you may not chew it! If I hear any more on the matter, you will be banished to the corner, and will sport a dunce cap for the remainder of the year.

Come back soon!

Whew!!! With, sweat pouring off my face, I push the Publish button. I know I've forgotten some very important people, and to you I say "HOWDY!!"

Kisses to all, and to all a good night.


Teekay Sun Jul 23 19:30:38 PDT 2000

Hi All,

GARIESS: My intention is never to embarrass, just to laugh a lot. :D

ROBI & EJ: When I was about 15 or 16 my girlfriend and I used to go into crowded coffee shops and make sure that we were sitting within hearing distance of the next table. We would then start up this conversation about our incredibly exciting (imaginary) lives, we may have been racing car drivers, actresses, models, whatever grabbed us at the time and then we would just blather on and on thinking that the people at the next table must think we were just amazing. Your posts do tend to remind me of that. I cringe now at the memory, but I blame it on my youth. :)

DEBRA J. PALARDY: I tried looking up your book and I put sweetie in, but it didn't come up.

I think that's it for today.

Jack Beslanwitch Sun Jul 23 19:21:34 PDT 2000

One additional point about the Harry Pottery books. I have to go back and re-read a bit and check, but my impression is that the author is doing something rather crafty whether unconsciously or consciously. She seems to be writing to the reading level of what Harry's age is in each book. The latest book as a point in this direction is far and away more or young adult and beyond rather than the more children's book level that the previous books were. Each seems to mature a bit as Harry matures. Of course, this could just be the writer maturing as a writer, which she is also. The stakes have certainly been raised in the latest book. Oh, well, last I will comment about Harry and leave it for others to hear me recommend that they read these books, they are quite good. The third book is not quite enough for me to vote for it as the Hugo winner (Lois McMaster Bujold got my vote), but I would not be surprised is that Goblet of Fire did not get another nomination next year and I would not be too surprised if I did not vote for it. Speaking of Hugos and World Science Fiction Conventions in Chicago (Chicon), I will be attending and will be manning a fan table for my Westercon bid. If anyone is going or you are in the area, feel free to get in touch.

Marynotdotcalm Sun Jul 23 18:56:31 PDT 2000

GS: tilt that dented lampshade up a bit so you can see me sticking my tongue out at you. ;-)

Jerry A.G. Ericsson Sun Jul 23 18:27:05 PDT 2000

Wow, a guy goes away for a few days, and the notebook goes totaly bananas!

Garyss - what the hell you been smoking man! (Save me a toke or two would ya)

Americo, John and Joanne? You doing research on the life of Jerry or something? Those are the names of my two children!

Had a wonderful time at Fort Lincoln - feel totaly re-created!

Write on!

Debra J. Palardy Sun Jul 23 16:59:36 PDT 2000

Hi Rhoda:

My book will work. I really believe that. It is short which I stand behind. Making it short was hard for me, but it was part of my theroy of what might work.

Let's face human nature dictates that if you hear someone making a plea from you to do something that is high drama to your future and they were using words that you just read in a book, he is going to look like a moran, right?

I also added the fact that she will turn into a woman of substance and imply that she will be higher up on the food chain than him, in just a few short sentances.

Talk to you later.


gariess Sun Jul 23 16:41:16 PDT 2000


I don't know you, man, but I think you need more than another long nap... maybe rent a few videos or better yet, watch the Fox channel for a couple of days to build up to it. Things are still a little slow in the Catskills.

"Catskills? My cat has no skills!"

Hmm. Groucho lives.

gariess Sun Jul 23 16:31:56 PDT 2000

Marynotdotcalm has just told us guys the secret to getting women to do whatever we tell them to. We have to become publishers, guys. Oooh, I wonder if Sandra Bullock wants a publisher...or maybe Jennifer Anniston? Who's that blond one that plays Phoebe? Why didn't I know about this when I was younger, when I didn't have to go to the lumber yard to find wood... when I didn't need light bulbs?


Mary Sun Jul 23 14:28:31 PDT 2000

all i know is that if i ever got a publisher i would do whatever he told me to do.

Valerie Sun Jul 23 13:59:47 PDT 2000

Dear Friends,
Am frustrated out of my mind. My short story has a great structure to it, a quirky list of characters. BUT the detail is killing me. So, rather than roll that boulder up the hill any longer, I took a break to complain. The story is writing itself - it's just so painstaking to make the pages come alive. The paper is a flat surface, plain and white and taunting me today like come ON moron, you can't make me be un-flat neener neener.

And so it goes. My usual (profitable) procedure of thinking up a topic, research, write the thing and sell it makes the magazine world look so great right now - and I am just very sorry I had some epiphany that I was clever enought to write a few fiction stories. GRRR.

Well, hope your writing is going well - and that I will have something wonderful to post after all of this toil(rolling my eyes) ! Somebody commiserate (whine) with me pleeeze, or call the WHhhaaaambulance and take me away.

Take Care,


Rip Sun Jul 23 13:23:28 PDT 2000

I hold my hand to my chest and gasp. Would that I could slumber and return to the priggish, innocent era into which I was born, but alas I cannot. Just when I thought I could live in this new century, I read things here on this message board that strike me to the quick.

I know about the evil that abounds on this new invention, the Internet, but never, never have I read of things done as done by a couple of you here. Yes, you know who you are, you creatures that have no shame!

I must take to my bed again, lest another spasm of pain overcome me.


Sun Jul 23 11:25:19 PDT 2000

Unprofessional, very unprofessional. The two of you know who you are.

Robi Sun Jul 23 10:39:58 PDT 2000

Hello Everyone, hope everything is going well. i am having a bit of a problem with my publisher, Cole. He wants me to do another novel. I want to do a short story collection. I could easily do either. So, I'm going to pick by majority rule, should I do a novel or a short story collection? Thanks!


EJ, I got the advance. I was expecting at least 30, Cole gave me 27. How does a holiday sound? The whole gang, we know Erik's not doing anything, lol.
If it's WSH and Burn.. you're having problems with then just combine them. They're basically the same story told in two different locations. Like I did with Jessa, combine them. You'll get your copy around Thanksgiving, the rest of them will be out by Christmas. I'm just full of suprises aren't I? Lol.

Rhoda Sun Jul 23 10:03:35 PDT 2000


I hope you are still here. I just wanted to welcome you to the Notebook and to tell you how glad I am that you are here. Your book sounds like a fascinating project. My daughter just turned twelve and will probably be going to some huge, big city junior high in August. I might buy a copy and put it away for the time when she shows some interest in boys, which happily she hasn't done yet. Barbara is still in her world of Beanie Babies, Pokemon cards, and books. Also your book might be useful for someone square like me who might someday wish to write a contemporary romance. I imagine dating has changed somewhat in the past twenty years.


My refrigerator does work. I had it cleaned out and it is down to 40 degrees, but it won't go lower and it should by a few degrees, espacially on the lower setting. The freezer on the other end only gets to 20 degrees F, and it should go down to zero. I think the thermostat is broken. I cannot get anyone to fix it because the refrigerator is workable, even if just barely. Small towns (sigh). Go figure.


I will get over to the Notebook and check out your story.

I started another book while I was in Tulsa.

The Old Man,

I never saw the name Lilith in the Bible. I thought Adam had just one wife. I do have a George MacDonald book called Lilith. It is about one hundred years old and so fragile, I am afraid to read it. It is a pretty name.

If anyone is still interested in the book exchange, I have another book I would be happy to send. It is called, SOPHIA. I bought it at a writer's conference from its author Ann Chamberlin. She writes for Tor. The book is one of the best of its type I have read for a long time. It is about a young man and a young woman from Italy who are sold into slavery in Istanbul. The young woman goes on to be a favorite of the Sultan's son and the man becomes a eunich for the same family. Ms. Chamberlin really seems to know her history, and she writes very well. If anyone would like me to send them a copy, please e-mail me.


Glad you had a good time in New Mexico. You were close to my old stomping grounds. I lived in Farmington two years ago, just on the edge of the Navajo reservation. I greatly remember the Navajo venders on the sides of the road. We bought a few cedar seed necklaces from them. I have seen the Grand Canyon twice. That is an experience one never forgets. It is absolutely indescribable and pictures do not do it justice.

Happy Writing!


Mark Sun Jul 23 09:07:01 PDT 2000

HOWARD -- good to hear from you. I bought some silver jewelry from a Navajo woman back in '80-something. Funny how the roadside billboards suddenly popped up on the Arizona side of the Arizona / New Mexico border. Ain't the canyon just grand?

Teekay - a rorschach is an inkblot test. I tend to use that as a gauge of many things in Lit and Life. I believe it's true that in many cases, what you see in a situation is a reflection of who you are. How you judge a work is as much a function of how you see as what the artist presents. For that reason I like to compare notes on the kinds of Crit offered in the Workbook; my vision just may be off-point that day and I can measure my sight against others'.

I was at the water cooler when Howard was being given his rorschach:

Dr.: Alright, Howard, tell me what you see here.
Howard: Um, well, that's two people, and they're, uh, having sex.
Dr. : OK. Now, what do you see in this one?
Howard: Well, that's the same two people, they've changed position, but they are still going at it.
Dr. : Fine, now, what do you see in this third one?
Howard : This is a picture of two different people, but they are doing just what the first couple did.
Dr. : Howard, you seem to be preoccupied with sex.
Howard : Me?? HEY!! Those are YOUR pictures.

howard Sun Jul 23 07:32:09 PDT 2000

Hello -- We left New Mexico yesterday and right now we're at my daughter's home in Williams, AZ, just south of the Grand Canyon. It's hot and dry, but not as bad as it was on the Navajo reservation near Gallup. We (six of us) painted a house, a church, a library, and four other buildings in three and a half days. Looked good too!

Now we're frantically looking for a hearing aid repair service, because my daughter's cat (Snoopy) got my mother's hearing aid and ate a part of it, and the rest doesn't work too well. She's totally deaf without it.


EJ Sun Jul 23 06:01:16 PDT 2000

Everyone, I am having a bit of a problem with the two main characters in the two novels I am half way through writing. They have become too similar to each other. Without reading what I have wrote, how can I make them different and unique? Please help, I'm stuck!


P.S. Robs, I spoke to Cole. "So, she's writing again," were his exact words. ???

Gariess Sat Jul 22 23:56:22 PDT 2000

So that was you, Teekay, in that little place in Paris. Yes, those were the days of wine and roses. I remember the wine well enough but where were the roses? The woman across from me has been something of a blurred image all these years since. Well, whoever you were then, you were much more civilized than you are now. But it still is fun to chase you around the room with a lampshade. Of course, it would be a lot more fun to chase you around the room with a light bulb. Hahahahahaha!!!! And you thought you could embarass ME, silly person that you are.


Jessica Sat Jul 22 23:05:24 PDT 2000

Mark and Teekay: Thanks for looking at my story idea, your critiques made alot of sense, and I will be working realy hard to smooth my begining up, I normaly have a hard time with beginings, this is the first one that I haven't rewrote completely diffrently a few dozen times.

Teekay: there is a reason that you don't like my main character, because I wrote him that way, I purposefuly made him egotistical and the whole way he is. If you want my whole reasonings, I'll tell you later if you want to know. Hopefully I can get more of my story moved to type and posted up here so you can read it, but as it is the stuff that is posted is all I have in type.

If anyone is interested, my story is posted in the novel area.

gariess Sat Jul 22 22:32:34 PDT 2000


I don't know if anyone is going to bring "that subject" up again, but good luck to them if they can. I been having the very devil of a time bringing it up, myself.


gariess Sat Jul 22 22:27:37 PDT 2000

Yup, it is I once again. Hi, Rhoda. I see Rhoda has told us something about The Patriot, and I have promised to remark upon The Perfect Storm and I will, but first I am going to chase Teekay around the room and beat at her with the lampshade... Take that, you mischeivous little wench ( she's probably 5' 10" and weighs 190.) Damn it, look what you made me do to the lampshade, its all mis-shapen.

Okay, now for The Perfect Storm.

I have this silly habit of seeing a movie and then afterward looking up reviews on the Internet to see how I liked it. I did that tonight, and according to greater minds than my own, I didn’t think much of The Perfect Storm. The trouble is that because of a small personal interest, I approached the viewing with uncharacteristic willingness to enjoy it, and I did. Ordinarily I would be as skeptical and as jaded as most of the critics about this film, but the problem is that I used to kick around in Gloucester, myself, quite a bit in the old days.

When I first fell in love with fishing, I used to run up for the flounder and the mackerel in the spring. Sometimes we went out to the Banks on one of the Yankee Fleet boats for a Cod trip. My buds from work would come along sometimes and we'd fish the docks in town. Then the bunch of us would get all fish-stinky and when the action slowed we’d go and get smushed in the Crow’s Nest. The Crow’s nest was the obvious and convenient choice of dives, even in those days... especially in those days.

The Crow’s Nest in The Perfect Storm is a wonderful example of Hollywood manipulation. In the film they created a Crow’s Nest that sits on a main dock and whose door opens onto a pier that overlooks the beautiful harbor. In truth the Crow’s Nest is up the road a bit into the town and is even on the wrong side of the street (for a movie). Its doors open into its own shadow most of the time and the view is the totally uninteresting other side of the street. You could step out of the Crow’s Nest and think you were in any grungy town in America. Come to think of it, I have stepped out of the Crow’s nest on occasion wondering what the hell town I was in. Luckily, I had friends who could lead me to the car…sometimes.

Ethel Shatford was a nice enough woman, but when she was shoving bottles of Miller under our noses she was just a woman pushing beer in anydive, USA. In fact the woman who played Ethel in the movie was a much better Ethel than the original, and Ethel might have been the first to say so, but she died some years back. I don’t remember Bobby Shatford, her son, but I think he might have been pretty young in our time. In fact Mark Whalberg, the actor who plays Bobby in the film would have been hardly more than a rug rat, himself, when my lot fished Cape Anne.

The film is a marvel to me, not because of the job they did with the storm and the waves, although that was great, but the way they made the Gloucester waterfront area into a place of warmth and charm that people would look at for the first forty-five minutes of the film. Most people I know wouldn’t look at the Gloucester waterfront for three minutes. There are, however, a good many beautiful scenes of the harbor and other shots that add a nice travelogue value to the film. I credit the cinematography and photography very highly, even knowing that they spent millions to do it.

The critics jumped on the movie for having a corny screen play, and it does, actually. There were a lot of sappy lines, especially when Clooney is romanticizing to Mastrantonio about setting out from the harbor, and when she is calling him on the radio to tell him he is heading right into "the mouth of the monster." The script sets up a half-assed, half-hearted romantic connection between Billy Tyne and Linda Greenlaw, which just about everybody around town knows is absurd (my third wife and her family are Gloucester people and I still chew a little fat with some folks, now and again.) Still, a leading man must not be entirely without the prospect of a little wood in the plot.

One especially flawed bit of dialogue rang utterly wrong to Massachusetts people. Clooney, as Billy Tyne, berates his crew for having cold feet. He suggests that they would rather spend their time in Scollay Square than put out and earn some money. What? Scollay Square? Scollay square was a small section of Boston known for its seamy night life and Burlesque theaters. Yes, Burlesque theaters. Scollay Square was demolished decades ago and was rebuilt as Government Center. I am old enough to remember Scollay Square and nobody ever pronounced it as though it rhymed with golly the way Clooney does in this scene. It rhymed with gully. People in the last three decades only speak of Scollay (Scully) Square in an historic reference. Somebody played a little joke on the screen writers and for the life of me, I can’t think how it got by, but a movie can pass off such nicks and scratches in its surface as unimportant. Hell, people in Albuquerque, Hong Kong and Liverpool know diddlyshit about Scollay Square, and in the light of the millions they are getting from this one, they have no problem there.

Ah, Hollywood.


Teekay Sat Jul 22 21:50:11 PDT 2000

Dearly beloved,
we are gathered here today to lay rest to GARIESS confession??? about his light bulb fetish. (Who said writers were only deep when they were writing?)

GARIESS fetish bought much fun and laughter to the notebook. It warmed our hearts (and nether regions in those who tried to follow his example.) and brought a smile to many a face.

Alas it is time to lay this incident to rest and any who are tempted to exhume it are doing so in the very worst of taste.

A quote from the bible. "and the lord said, let there be light bulbs."

Now let us pray, that no one shall bring this subject up again.

Teekay Sat Jul 22 21:29:21 PDT 2000

RHODA: Thankyou. My novel?? isn't really about that though.
But the idea's for sale for $A54636834723476324664653646567:00 if anyone is interested.

GARIESS: I'd send you this in an email, but mine is busted, but, remember when we were in that cosy little restaurant in France and we were drinking wine and talking & laughing and suddenly the lights blew?

Okay, so I lied.

Rhoda Sat Jul 22 20:29:00 PDT 2000


I can't stop laughing over your last post. I love it! I think I know where you might get the book published, MADD MAGAZINE. I think they still do spoofs. I remember in the late sixties when they published THE SOUND OF MONEY. Then there was their STAR TREK story with Engineer Snotty, Captain Jerk, Mr. Spick, and Leiutenent Lulu.

Actually, Teekay, how is your novel going? If it is half as funny as your post, I want to read it. Please send me some of it when you are ready.

I saw PATRIOT. It was very good, but extremely violent. Were the Brits really so bad as they are portrayed in that movie. Actually, it wasn't the Brits who were so wicked, but the Tories. But anyhow, Mel Gibson was wonderful as always. Goes to show that when you can portray HAMLET well, you can do any sort of role.


Teekay Sat Jul 22 19:45:56 PDT 2000

~shrug~ Don't look at me.

Sat Jul 22 19:41:14 PDT 2000

GARIESS is going to stand up and take the heat. Guess he found some fresh light bulbs. Hahahhamammfmfmmfm *snort*.

Teekay Sat Jul 22 19:17:47 PDT 2000

Hi All,

GARIESS: I had no intention of asking 'up what' I feel that would be beneath me.
However, I looked up the meaning of the name GARY to find that was of nordic origin meaning he who carries broken fire sticks in, no, I shan't do it, I said it was over and it is. Forgive me for being tempted. :D

RHODA: RATS! I don't know what went wrong. I'll have a look and see if I still have them saved and if not I'll send you some comments. There weren't many at all. I really enjoyed it, and the red pen hardly came out at all.

Okay, now I know you're all dying to hear about my novel progress, so here goes.
It's about this little orphan girl called Fran, who by mistake gets adopted my this elderly brother and sister who live on an island and own a horse breeding stable. The stables are a lovely cream colour and anyway, it's about the friends Fran makes and the people she meets. I'm not real sure about a name yet, but I'm thinking maybe FRAN OF CREAM STABLES. What do you think???

Pssst psst psst.

What's that?

pssst pssst.

Of course it's been done before. Everything's been done before, just ask OWHARD (if you can find him.)
Anyhow, it's bound to be a best seller.

Just a little bit of lazy research:
Does anybody know what year the first car made it onto the market place?

Rip Sat Jul 22 14:37:13 PDT 2000

Gadzooks! I do value this noble invention the computer. Imagine the enjoyment Ben Franklin might have derived from it.

Rhoda Sat Jul 22 13:15:06 PDT 2000


There were no comments or corrections on either one. Please don't feel compelled to go back and do your corrections all over again. Some general commentary will suffice if you wish to drop me an e-mail. I just thought that since you sent me the Reply to my original e-mail that the original version of the files might have tagged along also.

I will try to get on the Notebook again to liven it up. I do not want anyone to get B...o...a....r....d......, or is it B....o....r.....d? I got to clean the house and take my laundry to the laundermat. Incidently for anyone here looking for appliances, DO NOT BUY WHIRLPOOL. I have their refrigerator and their dryer and both are on the fritz right now.

Bye for now,


gariess Sat Jul 22 12:23:57 PDT 2000


You seem to have me cold on your knowledge of biblical names and their implications. Your own name might have been a clue to that whole buisiness. I was mindful of T.O.M.'s reference to the Nordic origin "Gerald" because I am told that my own name, Gary, is a variable of that same root word/name. Gar was a word that meant spear in that old language, so I am told, and Gary is "a man holding a spear." The only other reference I know about in our language today are the variety of Gar, a fish which I vaguely recall as having a needle-like front end.

As for the bible, I must admit I have read little of it. and have never learned much of its lore. Most of my exposure in such matters has been by way of C.B. DeMille and his ilk.

I know Charleton Heston was Moses, before he started pimping for the firearms industry. I remember Victor Mature was Samson (who has been wrongly referred to as Sampson in this NB.) As far as I know Mature never became a pimp in his declining years but I am no Hollywood insider by any means. I live on the east coast (U.S.) so all I might have seen of stardom was George Clooney and his pals putting out on their training boat out of Gloucester.

The guys I fish with out of Fort Meyers on the Barnegat Bay Princess got the contract to take the cast principals out on their training trips. I speak of the movie, The Perfect Storm, of course. I never got there, but I did get a heads up from Dan Insley last year that he was going to be in my neighborhood doing the cast trips. Actually, if I had known it was going to be such a big deal, I would have gone up.

The Princess puts out of New Jersey in the summer and Fort Meyers to the Keys in the winter. The "Storm" gig was a fill-in for them during the autumn last year. I understand the cast spent a lot of time on the Princess and some griped about it, but Insley said they were really a good bunch for the most part, and actually more sea worthy than most passengers who go out fishing on day trips, he especially admired Miss Mastrantonio, said she has real gumption. I guess young Whalberg is prone to seasickness and Clooney never quit tweaking him about it.

You know, I am just about talking myself into seeing this film. I could do that tonight. I shall return with my review later this evening. We shall see if the thumbs go up, and Teekay, please don't ask, "up what?"

Later, Dudes.


gariess Sat Jul 22 11:34:10 PDT 2000

Okay guys,

We all know that sooner or later some one is going to do it so I figure I might as well stand up and take the heat. Yes, I know it's about time I did something besides play the class clown. the Notebook fool, as it were. Hence, I shall step away from my role as Hayden's replacement for just a moment to place this reminder on the page.

The Notebook is a great place for writers and folks to hob nob. Jack does a lot of work to give us a place to hang out and post things intended for the attention of everyone. And the posts adressed to individuals are placed by people who want them directed to others, as well, or at least are aware that others will read them. However, posts that are really nothing more than private messages between individuals take up space that is meant for this format as a public forum. There is such a thing as email for two people who are well acquainted and wish to communicate. People on this board email one another often in addition to the posts that they place here publicly. So let us all be thusly advised. That is all. You may continue the games.

Okay, that is all the serious crap I am volunteering for. I have filled my quota for the summer and fall. It's back to the lampshade for me. Okay, who took the lampshade? Bring it back. Teekay, was that you, you devil?


Robi Sat Jul 22 10:29:08 PDT 2000

Glad you like the novel.
I'll get it to Cole on
Tuesday, after I get back
from Hampton. I know I
could just e mail it, but
I'd feel better taking it
in myself. But I promise
he'll get it on Tuesday.
Tell Jher, when he gets
back from San Fran to give
me a ring. Not that I think
he will, he's still mad about
me not going to those damn AA
meetings with him. We all don't
have a "problem" like him.
Anyway, my dove, I am off on
the train, I'll keep the laptop
with me, in case anyone feels
the need to make referance to me
in one of their postings.
Love you, take care,
your crazy old woman,
P.S. I've always thought of you
as a daughter figure. :)

EJ Sat Jul 22 07:30:15 PDT 2000

Dear everyone,
Sure, gaining friends because I know a lot of people in the writing biz seems very shallow, like your using me, oh well there's a thought. Not that I care, writing people are always shallow on most levels, only their writing is deep, and some times that's not even the case.
Sorry to hear about your mother Teekay, I have always thought that my mother would have turned out the same way had she not left me when I was a child. I suppose that's why I have always needed a mother figure, someone to watch over me, (thank you Robi :).) Ha, and who needs a therapist to solve the mysteries of their lives!
Anyway, Rachel even though I don't know you, Congrats on the baby!!!! Children are the only real thing we ever do that is right.

Robi, I thought you had forgotten all about that night at Mara's!!!! He scared me out of my wits, but you were so take with your gin n tonic that I didn't think you paying an attention when I jumped clear through the ceiling! I've finished part 6 of what you sent me, it's really good, I shouldn't be the one reading it, Cole should! It's done, finished, finir! Drop it off at the office, if you don't I'll bring it to him myself and forge your signature. Don't make me commit any act against the law, again.

And yes my editor friend does like your website and as I'm writing this I have called him to let him read the postings and such, not that he doesn't daily, he's a great guy and he does like me. So, hey Erik as your reading this and correcting my "grammer that sucks." Love you!

Take care everyone,


Mark Sat Jul 22 07:20:54 PDT 2000

Jessica, left a crit on the Novel Crit page. I know you'd rather get it by email, but I wouldn't mind feedback from others on my reading. I also think if we can all see several styles of crit then we all gain a bit.

Arik Sat Jul 22 04:45:13 PDT 2000

Rachel - Hey. sorry for the late answer. I have read the first 2 book of Harry Potter.... it is very nice. I like the idea of it... but if other writer would of write it... for older age - it whould be a lot better :-).

Hey everyone.... someone has a nice book to offer?

Teekay Sat Jul 22 02:11:58 PDT 2000

I know. I'm sorry, I wasn't going to do it. It was childish and immature (which, I think is pretty much the same thing), but I couldn't help it. I just really want people to be nice to me.

Also, the notebook is very quiet and I'm a little bit bored and unfortunately there are no blown lightbulbs that need changeing.

Okay GARIESS, that was the last one.

That's it, I really am going now.


Sat Jul 22 02:06:28 PDT 2000

okay everbody, be really nice to Teekay, coz Teekay's Mum reads this page and Teekay's Mum has a neighbour who has a son who goes out with a girl who's Nan reads the woman's weekly magazine and I don't know if any of you are aware of it BUT, magazines have editors. Anyhow, you don"t really have to be nice to Teekay, coz her Mum doesn't really like her - much. And what the hell am I really talking about? Well, that's really a bugger of a question.

Teekay Sat Jul 22 01:57:05 PDT 2000

RHODA: I made the edits on the attatchments you sent. There weren't very many, but just look through the 2nd one and you should see them. I must've forgot to save the changes (I know DUH!!!) on the first one, but I've commented at the bottom. Check again and let me know.

Ummmmmmmm, I think that's it.

No it's not.

AMERICO:Happy holidays.

HOWARD: wHERE ARE YOU///?????????????/


Going now.

Jack Beslanwitch Sat Jul 22 00:31:24 PDT 2000

Rachel: Here's wishing all the best and safety in the delivery.

Just got the 4th Harry Potter book yesterday. Loved all 700 plus pages of it. Best yet and look forward to see just how attrociously they do with the movie when they get to this one. It has the best potential yet. Just hope that they bite the bullet and cast a Brit instead of try filling Harry's role with an American actor. Take care.

Rhoda Fri Jul 21 22:11:58 PDT 2000


I could not open your attachment for TRB. When you sent the file in the reply, it kept opening up the two attachments I originally sent you. Please, try again.


CONGRATULATIONS!!! All the best for a safe pregnancy and safe delivery for your little one.

It is good to be back.

More later,


Mary Fri Jul 21 21:47:22 PDT 2000

MARK: I feel the same way...dont need one in the house at this juncture. (Just like to know I COULD if I were so inclined.) I am just doing a little research into firing them. C-Ya.

Gariess Fri Jul 21 20:38:33 PDT 2000

Hi, Mark,

Thank you for the favorable comment. As for all you others I am back to post this message fragment from another board that I visit (you guys are going to be so sorry for showing me that copy and paste trick.)

I just got too tired of the sarcastic
put down humor and sexual innuendos of regular TV. That stuff is so easy to write, anyone could
do it, and they rely too heavily on it instead of good comedic writing. Gariess's post on
Jul-19-00 at 10:59:58 PDT about the Rotoroll® XB1 4×5 winder is better writing than anything
I've seen on TV in a long time.

Do I love to show off? Is the wild bear catholic? Does the pope make big doo doo in the woods?


PS What a strange feeling it is to put another person's words in a place he doesn't know. It feels rather like violating a trust or something... I still love it.

Mark Fri Jul 21 19:52:42 PDT 2000

Holy Moses, Batman, don't go by any graveyards tonight. There's a bunch of bible-thumpers spinning out there right now.

OLD MAN -- Biblical like Ruth or Lilith ?? Whew{whistle} Ruth is in the mainstream of biblical belief, and Lilith is in a tidepool of thought that refuses to dry up and disappear. Personally, I like ... well, nevermind which I like better. The point is that those two names seldom appear in the same sentence without a verb of denial in there.

Long story about Adam and Eve after the Garden and at the end of a hard day .. Adam came back into the hut smiling. Eve demanded to know why. Another woman? Adam insisted she was the only one .. he raised his arms and cried, "Here, count my ribs."

RACHEL -- How is Ross, anyway? As for Names, I like Molly and Sheila. Molly is a fine modern lass who can lift the bed with one hand and sweep under it with the other. Sheila NiGara was a Celtic princess who ... uh, damn, can't find that reference, uh, well, she wouldn't have been sweeping floors. For boys, well, Jeremy and Timothy. Just because.
And finally {{{HUG}}} Just because.

GARIESS -- A wit. A true wit. The corners of my humorless mouth actually rose a bit while reading of your adventures in lightbulb-land. You got me again with the "Spear thrower" quip. In defense of the Old Man's somethingorother I must say 'Location, Location, Location.' I *would* ask that question at a track and field meet. Still . . . at the bar . . .

MARY -- Guns. Ugh. I have a ProMarksman rating but I won't keep a gun in the house.

HEATHER -- I'm lonely.

AMERICO -- Bon Voyage.

TO EVERYONE ELSE -- and that's a crowd these days -- hello, and goodnight.

gariess Fri Jul 21 16:14:57 PDT 2000

Hi, Old Man,

Tell me this. If you were looking for a guy named Gerald, would you go into a bar full of black guys and ask, "Is there a Spear Thrower in here?" You'd get your answer right quick at any rate.

And now for something completely different.

The Los Angeles Times, The Boston Globe and The Bumpsicle Weekly News are all squabbling like so many street mutts to claim the following piece for their respective editorial sections. I have decided to leave them in the middle of the road to snarl and nip at one another and to choke in their own dust as it were. I shall instead offer this to the Cape Cod Times. I am sure the Times has no interest in the actual reaction of the aforementioned journals so I will leave it to their editors to accept or pass upon the material. I guess they will have to base their decision on the merits of the piece and not be influenced by the alleged opinions of those other editors.

I love that word, "alleged." It sounds so journalistic, so newspaper-like. Of course it can’t hold a candle to "estranged." I just couldn’t find a way to use "estranged" in this piece. Too bad, too. It would have fooled them into thinking I am a real newspaper kind of writer. Alleged writer, I guess. But I supposed it’s better than being an estranged writer. Imagine it. "A woman on Pine Street was allegedly assaulted by her estranged writer around noon, Saturday, police said." See, it doesn’t work. I better remember to cut off this part when I send it to the paper. Anyway, here’s the Ed piece.

Wisdom is where you find it. That’s why wisdom is the gold of our new world. We used to say gold is where you find it. That was from the time before gold changed from yellow to green. Green on one side, black and white on the other. Now the color is washing out more every day. Fading as it turns into electronic impulses of information. A few electrons from the checking account to Master Card. A few to Discover Card, and maybe next month we can afford to send enough electrons to pay off the car insurance for this year.

Oops! We have to get a stamp from the post office. We have to send uncle George the pictures of the kids. Uncle George has no email. Uncle George has no monitor, no A drive, no C drive, only a dirt drive where the postman doesn’t even go. Uncle George still walks every day to the mail box. Still gets a check every month and takes it to the bank and gets "cash money." George drives to the supermarket where he pays the gas, phone, and what he still refers to as the "light" bill. How quaint is that? Does uncle George have wisdom, or is uncle George just old fashioned… who can say?

In a time when our decks are awash in information—at a time when we thought we were safe from any more nautical cliché’s—at a time when we file our vacation photos in something called jpegs, when we can get instructions for developing slide film with a mouse click or get a better mortgage rate without leaving the house; when we can store our phone messages as easily as we store old clothes, our ship is foundering for want of wisdom. Wisdom.

We seem to need wisdom now more than we ever did. There are so many questions of such great magnitude. Is there really a global warming trend? If there is, are we causing it? Is the Ice Cap melting too fast? Is that why that island in the Chesapeake is disappearing? Will Ross and Rachel ever get together?

Can we really have peace in the Middle East? Do we really care as long we get our oil before the Ice Cap melts? Their oil? Their oil and our oil? Here’s a silly thought. Imagine them wanting our oil?

Should we send diplomats to the Columbian government or should we skip the pretense and go directly to the drug lords? Will Elian Gonsalez fade into obscurity or will he come back as a utility infielder for the Braves? Should we be fighting a drug war in central America or should we negotiate for import quotas and better prices? Is there wisdom in legalizing drugs? Wouldn’t that have an adverse effect on gun sales in the inner cities? Do we really want to impair the profits of Remington and Colt? Do we really want to piss off Moses? Who was Monty Python, and did he really have a flying circus?

Finally, when these questions and so many others overwhelm us as they must, as they already have if we can admit to the fact, what should we do? Will wisdom lead us to action, or will wisdom lead us to denial and defeat? Before you judge too harshly, consider the possible up-side of denial and defeat.

Do we feel capable of facing up to questions like "Where have all the A-bombs gone?" A-bombs are of an age gone by, but "thermo-nuclear weapons" doesn’t suit the tempo of that wistful old song. Try it. "Where have all the A- bombs gone?" "Where have all the thermo-nuclear weapons gone?" No contest. "Long time passing?" We may fervently pray.

If there is a danger out there somewhere in the form of a nuclear device gone unaccounted for, will it present itself as an awesome billowing mushroom cloud with a brief albeit climactic entertainment value, or will it be in the form of a so-called "dirty" bomb; a device mishandled by bungling terrorists making a ghastly Chernobyl-heap out of New York, Los Angeles or Bumpsicle, Missouri? Don’t under-rate Missouri. Mark Twain was from Missouri.

Will we ponder these questions as we gather with our beach chairs along the shores of central Massachusetts to watch the waves of the Atlantic grind apple orchards into sand dunes, or will we simply sit and watch the final nuclear curtain while we look at one and other saying, "God bless denial and defeat," and asking, "but is this wisdom?"


Fri Jul 21 15:50:47 PDT 2000

Everybody be real nice to EJ, she has a freind who is an editor. Why do I think EJ is a she? Doesn't matter, just think about this: An editor knows about this site and actually told someone to visit here. That beggars the question: does this editor like EJ?

Gariess Fri Jul 21 15:43:36 PDT 2000


I love the cadence of that line: "Notebook Newbies are a lively bunch of late." You must try it to the tune of "Spoonful of Sugar." "Oh, the Notebook Newbies are a lively bunch of late. A lively bunch of late. A lively bunch of late." Come on, everybody sing! "Oh the Notebook Newbies..."


The Old Man Fri Jul 21 15:21:06 PDT 2000

Greetings and Felicitations,

Rachel, allow me to congratulate you on your happy burden. ((((((((((((((((BIG HUG)))))))))))))
I hope that was not too big a hug, I wouldn't want to hurt you with it.
As for a name..............(thinking) about Gerald which means spear thrower. And for a girl's name, how about something with the same biblical origin as your own like Ruth or Lilith (Adam's first wife). In any case, should the child grow to have your sense of humor and good intentions, this world will surely be a better place with him/her in it. (For your sake I tried my hand at being politically correct)

Jack, it pleased me to no end to know that your trip was such a success. Too bad about your cold, but as someone has already mentioned, it is a good thing that you waited until you were back to allow it to the fore. Diving with a cold is not a good idea, stuffy nose and ears do not allow valsalva. And without being able to pop your ears, the dive is off. However, a palm-full of ocean water snorted through the nose will clear your head long enough for a basic recreational dive.

Newbies, welcome!

Take care, all.

Robi Fri Jul 21 12:26:49 PDT 2000

EJ, it's done and your copy is in your box. :) Remember the night at Mara's villa with the waiter in the box on stage...... and how you jumped when---you know what I mean, lol.

TeeKay, funny.

And the crazy ranting and raving mad woman says good night,

Debra J. Palardy Fri Jul 21 11:22:53 PDT 2000

Hi My name is Debra J. Palardy

I have a book on the book .com's called "Sweetie here's the best reason on the planet to say no to your boyfriend".

It takes all the power out of the words of these boys by telling the girls ahead of time what they are going to say.

I hope it helps any girl who reads it.

Look on Amazon, Borders and Barnes and Just type in the first word "sweetie" and you will get a short list to find it on.


Debra J. Palardy

Mary Fri Jul 21 06:24:56 PDT 2000

My time at the shooting range fell through cuz big brother got called out for something. will try again for next week.

Mary Fri Jul 21 06:20:52 PDT 2000

RACHEL: I would love to get in on the name game, but I really only have one suggestion: a family name. Out of spite and rebellion against my over-zealous Mother, I named both of my kids names that I like very much, and have real significance to me, but I must admit that sometimes I am sorry that my daughter's name doesn't reflect the strength of some of the women in our family. Or that my son is not named after his dearly loved great-grandfather whom he will never know. I probably don't need to tell you this 'cuz its not like this is your first and you haven't been through the naming process already, but I just wanted to get my spoonfull of sugar in the cup!!!!

As far as shower games go, at mine, we played a game where they passed around a roll of bathroom tissue and everyone tore off the amount of sheets that they thought it would take to encircle my huge belly. It was really funny how far off everybody was. Only one person even came close and she was still off by about three sheets.


Americo Fri Jul 21 02:37:20 PDT 2000


Public congratulations on your "interesting state" (as we say here) and good luck for the future. I suggest John if a boy, Joanne if a girl.

I won't be able to even read the notebook as often as I'd like for the next few weeks. Too much work for the moment, and some holidays away from home and the Internet soon.

See you soon, everybody, and keep up the good work with a broad permanent smile.

Heather Fri Jul 21 00:11:04 PDT 2000

Welcome newbies.

Notebook Newbies are a lively bunch of late.


Heather Fri Jul 21 00:09:37 PDT 2000

Who the hell has the ball?


So darned many feet trampling through here, I can't find that glaring black and white football. Here, footie footie football!

Aha! I kick it to Americo as he strides up the field.
Gariess swings past and nabs it! Teekay comes down the field to boot it away. (whew, that was close!)

I am panting from the incredible exertion. That football takes me all over this farm.


Teekay Thu Jul 20 23:20:25 PDT 2000

MUM: Sorry MUM. Sorry EJ.

Thu Jul 20 23:18:40 PDT 2000

TEEKAY, don't be a bitch. Now say sorry to EJ.

Teekay Thu Jul 20 23:07:53 PDT 2000


MARY: Of course GARIESS is talking to you. He really is pleased to see you. What did you think, that was just a light bulb (or 2) in his pocket (undies)? Hahahahah
hahahahahahahahahahahahah AHHHHH hahahahahahahaha Oh, am I ever going to let this go?

ARIK: I haven't read Harry Potter, though I've wanted to, but they are reserved up to the next millenium at the library and I don't really want to buy them until I read one first. They are selling like hot cakes over here.

EJ & ROBI: Have I somehow fallen into an episode of mission impossible, or perhaps the X- files? Maybe the twilight zone. Or are you guys just doing the group therapy thing?
I'm sorry, I didn't mean it. No I'm sorry. No, no I am. No, me. No, me. Oh okay then, you can be. Heh heh.

RACHEL: If you have a girl, I go for the name Georgia Madison. You can't go wrong with that one.

Ciao down now.

Gariess Thu Jul 20 22:37:36 PDT 2000

Hi, Marynotdotcalm,

I'm glad your glad, but of course, I was never not speaking to you. I love this new fashion of double negatives, don't you? I am so having fun, like it's so cool to be like, cool, you know?

Mary, be careful with that .38. Personally, I have not like hand guns much since that night in Borneo when I almost blew the crew chief's head off with an army Colt .45. Luckily, a Bill Hickock, I would never have been... Actually, that's dumb because Hickock always used those Navy Colts: big old hog legs, they were.

Hi everybody,


Thu Jul 20 22:24:36 PDT 2000

"I love the smell of ascetic acid in the morning. It smells like... victory. No, strike that. It smells like... a darkroom. No, you know what? Let's go back to the victory. Yes, victory... Why? Because it would be stupid to have a commander on a beach during an Air Cav assault talking to some Special Ops junior officer about the smell of a darkroom... Why? Because it's stupid, that's why! And because I say so, who the hell is in charge of this picture, anyway? And where the hell is Brando? Find out where the hell Brando is, and that other punk, what's his name? Yeah, Sheen.

"Hey, before you leave change that ascetic acid to napalm... Why? Dammit, do I have explain everything I say. Just change it to NAPALM, damn it!"

Rosemary Thu Jul 20 19:25:05 PDT 2000

Hi all,
Just got back home from a trip to Missouri.

In a big rush to leave, I sent an e-mail critique to Tina that may have sounded a bit harsh because I didn't have time to put in the things I really liked. All I had time for was the first paragraph. Our group has been concentrating on the first few pages of our novels and I'm afraid I might have passed on too much. Really sorry if I goofed. :.{

Harry Potter,
Even though I am a 57 year-old widow without any connection to anyone under 25 years-old, I have read all four of the Harry Potter novels and loved each one. (The last one was too heavy. Hurt my wrists. Also, as a writer, I'm not sure she had to drag that one out so long. Approx. 735 pages.)

Welcome back Jack. If you had to catch a cold, at least you waited until you got back.

Later All,

EJ Thu Jul 20 17:38:58 PDT 2000

Hello Mary, nice to meet you, yes my French is about as limited as yours, lucky for me I know Robi and understand what lies behind her ranting and ravings, (yes I do know she reads every word I write and hope this will inspire something in her to join the rest of society,) all she had to right was our good friend Jher's name and I knew she was still bitter about the two of us leaving to go home while she stayed in Roma.
Rome sorry, it's always been Roma to me. Any way, glad you said hello. And I hello back to you!

Mary Thu Jul 20 17:28:04 PDT 2000

EJ: whew...kinda glad you prefer english...that's about all the french i know!!!! Welcome anyhoooo.

Mary Thu Jul 20 17:25:39 PDT 2000

Salut, EJ! D'ou etes-vous? Roma? Bonne chance a Le Carnet!! Nous sommes gentils, errrr...ordinairement. o<:-)

EJ Thu Jul 20 17:24:19 PDT 2000

To Everyone,
Sorry to be such a bother, but I forgot to give my e-mail address, and in the hopes someone might want to send a hello my way I just wanted to throw it up there.

Robi, We couldn't stay and you knew that. Jher has work to do, the rest of us can't take a half year "holiday" in Roma everytime we feel like it. It wasn't meant as a slam against you that we left together, it just happened that way. I had to get back and have a normal life again, Roma's not "normal". I'm glad to hear you're back home, safe, and that Cole has been houndeding you to finish the darn novel already. Seven years is more than enough time, even I know that. Please don't write in French either, I have a hard time with English enough as it is. Take care, chin up and keep working.


P.s. Everyone, sorry about Robi. I know I keep apologizing when it's not my fault, but she's really a good person. If she wasn't such a brilliant writer, (not that I think she's shared any of her work with you, I know her, she won't until she feels safe enough,) i wouldn't put up with her flightiness. From what I've read on the message board, I can tell you that's her, not her work, her work is good, but she makes no sense at all as a human being. Flighty I believe is the only word I can use to descibe her...not that I think that helps. She's just a crazy old woman trapped with the mind of a genious. I don't expect to you to love her like I do.

Robi Thu Jul 20 13:08:19 PDT 2000

thanks teekay, i'm glad.
thanks heather also.
EJ- Avoir toi pouvior ecire depuis toi rentrer de Roma? Jher et toi il faut detester moi. Je voudrais en voir toi. Je amire les vacances avec toi en Roma.

EJ Thu Jul 20 12:38:49 PDT 2000

Hello, everyone,
I am new to this website, an editor friend suggested I come see it. I'm a writer, (sorry, that was self explanitory, but I needed a good lead in,) and I have no "friends" with similar careers. All my friends look at me like I'm crazy, "EJ, you're a writer, writers don't WORK, we work everyday, you write, that's not WORK, anyone can write." In some ways my friends are complete idiots.
My editor friend suggested this websites because he said that he had browsed it and it seemed like there were a lot of people I could become friends with, because I need friends who understand that I do have a real job. But I know that all of you know that, I'm just really nervous, I read through some of the postings of work, and I am a bit intimidated that my work isn't as good as any of the stuff I read. I really thought that what I read was really good, I just didn't feel right e-mailing the author's of those works, since none of you know me or anything. Sorry again for rambling. Nice being able to write this, look forward to reading your responses soon,

Jerry Ericsson Thu Jul 20 11:13:55 PDT 2000

Rachel - Guess I haven't said it yet, but Congratulations - I am happy for you, your new child will be born into such a wonderful time in history.

Naming contest? Well, I am partial to the name Theyra for a girl, has such a nice ring to it. Arthur for a boy, majestic as in King Arthur. (Not that it makes a difference, but that was my paternal grandparents names). Too old fashion, probably, but I guess I am just an old fashion kind of guy.

Leaving for an extended weekend camping trip this afternoon when the wife gets home from work, early I hope. Have the camper about loaded, even put an old computer in it, for those times when the wife and kids decide to go into the city and shop. We camp just outside Bismarck ND, which is the capitol of North Dakota, and the city where both my children work. They live about 40 miles north of there, so it is close enough that they can come down and spend time with us. We will be joined by my niece and her family, who live 60 miles west of here, kind of an annual thing and we always have a lot of fun.

Hope everyone is well, and the person or persons who planted the razor blades deserve, well I won't go into that, but the do!

Write on!


Mary Thu Jul 20 10:35:42 PDT 2000

GS: So glad you are talking to me!!!!! I am useless with the .38 until tonight when I learn how to load the thing!! I'll get back to ya!

Thu Jul 20 10:23:37 PDT 2000

BTW, Valerie, when you finish that piece on the dryer hose, I could use a copy of that.


gariess Thu Jul 20 10:13:53 PDT 2000


It appears that you are having a good time here. I hope all the new folks are. Just put your work in the Workbook and let us know in the Notebook how you want to recieve your feedback, in the NB or by email. If you consider using the Notebook, remember that anyone can come in here and sometimes people are hurtful, much as it pains me to say so.

Speaking of which, RACHEL, your news item gives me the very creeps. I hope they catch the perpetrator and soon. Personally, I don't see where some humane form of execution is unreasonable for a sonofabitch that would cut up kids with razors. I know they don't do that in Canada, but this is the kind of hump I wouldn't want to worry about ever coming back to my park. If you're lucky the bears will get him. Listen to me, I already have the perps gender determined. Talk about reactionary.

Mary! Get up here, we need you and that .38! I'm going to spend some time under the lampshade, I'll be right there. In the corner.


PS Heather, I found a good way to cut down on bad frames with an unmetered two and a quarter is to use a good 35mm as an exposure meter. I take a Nikon 8008s with me and the matrix program acts as my "dummy guide." It also has center-weighted and spot-metering if I want to get creative, or outsmart myself. Your Maxxum should do fine. I know the real deal is to use a hand held meter, but the 8008s has a program with data from something like 258 pictures to analyze the image and I know I am not going to do better than that. I just take the data and set it in whatever 120 I am using. I don't do zone system. Not bright enough. Just remember to make sure the "dummy guide" is set to your 120 film speed. Another neat thing with this is that you can put film in the 35mm and take the same shot with the 35mm. That way you can have one in each format if you want.

Gotta go,


Rachel Thu Jul 20 08:08:14 PDT 2000

Arik - I have read bits of Harry Potter. My son Daniel has read all of the books. He just got the 4th book for his 9th birthday. It is his most loved gift. He also got a remote control truck with a fast charge battery. This does not hold a candle to Harry Potter 4.

I may not have read them for myself but I have heard about everything! Sometimes my son will follow me around the house and read me sections of the book that he enjoyed more than usual.

I'm sure that some parents would not like Harry Potter. I think that the books are wonderful. My son has thrilled to them. Daniel is also a writer. He loves to read about the Harry Potter world, but when he writers, he still sticks to action adventure. The summer trip is coming soon. This means that there will be several new adventures added to "The Jumpers" That is the set of stories that he and his brother write each time we go on a driving trip.

I think that this year Daniel may have to write The Jumpers alone as Corey has fallen into song writing in a big way. My daughter will write her elf and fairy stories and Alex, well he will sit and look at them all like they have lost their minds. He thinks that reading and writing are for at school.

Hum, what do you think of Harry Potter? Have you read the books? My girlfriend has read each of the Harry Potter books to her son and she tells me that she loved them.

Take care you,


Valerie Thu Jul 20 07:37:13 PDT 2000

Dear Friends:
First of all GARIESS, you made me laugh myself I now have the confidence to go after some interesting writing sidebars like "How to Attach a Dryer Hose." If I win the foil contest, I shall gloat accordingly - just so you know.

ALLIEN: feed that hamster fruits and vegetables too!

Question: I have 1/4 of a short story done- what is the process for posting it and getting some criticism royale??

Thanks for all who helped me figure out the way to the Workbook. I found it Eureka! Now what do I do? (throws hand up in the air like a silly new person!)

Hope you have a great day!


Mary Thu Jul 20 06:31:16 PDT 2000

clothespins, big sinks, basins of chemicals, little red light bulb....miss the darkroom. haven't been in one in over 11 years, and i was a novice even then. i can see what you guys love about it. c-ya!

Arik Wed Jul 19 23:42:06 PDT 2000

Teekay - cool. let me know what you think about it :-).

all - Whats up? It was a long time since we talked :-). Someone working on something? any thing interesting that u wanna tell me?

Anyone read "Harry Potter"?

Heather Wed Jul 19 23:18:12 PDT 2000

I just read your post. UGK! Now that is horrifying - someone doing that to a children's playground in the hopes of hurting...

God, the thought just makes me ILL.
Reading that made something in my insides sink and tremble.

No more to be said.

Allein Wed Jul 19 23:15:55 PDT 2000

Gariess - Huh?

Rachel - In light of the naming contest, I've always liked the name Rebekah Leah for a girl. :) I'm not sure of a boy's name, but I'll think of something.

I have a new addition to my family too - a hampster. Her name is Twinkie 'cause she's twinkie colors. An orangy-brown and white. What do you mean Twinkies aren't orangy-brown, the ones we get on discount 'cause they've been expired are...oh. :) Just kidding. Twinkie is also my nickname - I'm not even sure how I got it. She's really cute, but really afraid of everyone. She flinches and tries to bite your hand if you attempt to pet her, but she should get used to us in a while. We've fed her crackers and pretzels (in addition to normal hampster food). I also fed her part of a pizza crust - she's only been here two days and already she's spoiled. I walked fifteen miles in the freezing and cold snow, uphill both ways, just to get her chew sticks and...what's that? Oh, right, my dad drove me and it was only about ten miles and the sun was shining - but it was hot in that car. A bird said hello to me in the pet store. :) My hampster is currently trying to figure out what the wheel is for. She's going in, taking a few steps, getting out, standing on hind legs and moving the wheel with her front paws. I only hope that she's not pregnant - she's over 8 weeks old, so she could be.
Oh well, that's enough of that. My brother suggested that we get a computer cam and set it up so people who visit my website could see what the hampster is doing (he would call it 'hampster cam'). Only problem is that they're night animals and she sleeps most of the day.
Okay, I'm going to bed now.

PS: Yes, I'm aware that I have no life. My job search is still in progress - damn lack of experience! Doesn't the fact that I have a high school diploma mean anything to these people. I mean, you have to be pretty smart to graduate from MY alma mater (can I call it that, I've only been a graduate for six weeks). Newsweek only put us in the top 2% of American schools based on high test scores. That's pretty good. I need a job - not even for the money (though, that is a plus) - I need something, anything to keep me busy! What's that? No, I don't feel like doing housework, Mom! Broom, mop, vaccum, these words are foreign to me. Lawnmower! $$$ Cha-ching! That I'll do. What's that? Oh yeah, it's eleven at night. Maybe tomorrow. :)
PPS: Okay, NOW I'm going to bed.

Heather excuse my spelling please Wed Jul 19 23:12:28 PDT 2000

Godesses or Goddesses?
Or is that goddesses/godesses?
I suppose I could look it up

if I was so inclined.


Heather Wed Jul 19 23:10:57 PDT 2000

Gariess! Litter!
Imagine that. All three of us medium format shooters!
And now Mary will know how to shoot a .38 - oh my.
I photograph some weddings. I photograph goddesses (the statuesque kind) and other odds and ends. I have several series that I want to continue, delving into them seriously. Much to my chagrin, at this point in time I use the C220 only several times a month, shooting maybe two rolls. It takes me longer than that to swing by and pick up the rolls from the shop fully developed - like a gift, just waiting to be opened. I may be a professional with the 35mm, but in medium format I am in my infancy, having used it barely a year. Some interesting shots have come my way during that time, but nearly half of the frames per roll still come up gunk and smear. I haven't been in a dark room for 15 years, so I take them into the only pro shop we've got. I ache to build my own darkroom, but have little means as of yet. Maybe after the roof has been replaced, the kitchen gutted and rebuilt, the floors re-covered with Pergo(tm), the basement finished and the bedrooms done, I will begin saving for the darkroom.
As you can see, it won't be tomorrow by midnight.

Here is a film I wish all of you to see:
'Run, Lola, Run'. It's a German film, so there are subtitles, but they really didn't bother me in this film. A cinematic nomad; the red virtually drips, colliding with flesh; the mint-greens gallop and never want to stop, the blue rush floods the senses. Yellow. I remember a little splash of yellow in there, too. A must see.

Off to the novel arena. Have a game to catch.


P.S. Welcome Robi. Your post still sounds as though you were jogging at the keys.

Rachel Wed Jul 19 23:02:00 PDT 2000

Teekay - I am very excited. It is different being pregnant at 31 than it was at 21. This is very cool. I am now at home and can kick back and enjoy the experience. I don't have to rush off to work, where I get to bow to the porcelain god as I heave due to the scent of a special co-worker. While I am bowing before the alter of the early pregnancy I am not going to have to think about how many sweaty asses have sat on that seat, have splashed that rim. UCK! Okay, I admit it. I really don't like public toilets. If you need to throw up, it is nice to be at home. I love that I don't need to worry about how long the maternity leave will be. I don't have to think about a return date for work. I even cut back on some extra work that I was doing from home. Just because I wanted to enjoy myself. My husband is in 7th heaven. My children talk to and hug my tummy endlessly.

Garries, Magoo!!!! - What is a naming contest? Do you all guess what I'm going to name the baby? Or do you suggest names? It sound like fun either way. Feel free to go ahead and start a contest. I have heard of contests where people guess at the date of birth or see who can get the best guess on the birth weight. Oh! Here is another one. My girlfriend is all ready coming up with shower games. She has one where she plans to measure me and then they all have to guess how round I am! The horror (grins)!!!!!!

Magoo for a middle name. Hum, sorry I don't think so (grins)! Besides you are Magoo. I all ready used the name Magoo. I can't use it twice!

Americo - You are so quiet. I wonder if you are having problems with your net connections. I hope that Jon hasn't done something awful to you! I send you hugs!

All - Americo has known that I am pregnant for just over a month. He has been a complete sweet heart to me. I think you should all hug him!

Do you want to hear something sick? We have a park just down the road from where I live. A very nice park. Not the sort of park where you worry about stuff. I used to live near the city and I would check the park for needles and condomes before I would let the kiddies go play. Out here I didn't think I had to worry. Last week some freak went to our park and stuck razors into the slide! Then spread glass in the sand. How sick is that?

gariess Wed Jul 19 20:47:11 PDT 2000

Just had to say Hi to Teekay. Hi, Teekay. And Hi, everybody.


gariess Wed Jul 19 20:42:59 PDT 2000


I just wanted to say that the Wreynolds Wrap contest sounds like a noble enterprise from the standpoint of one who is recently retired from writing labels for canned goods. I know I am shameless, but perhaps you are familiar with some of my work on additives and preservatives. My earlier years were spent mostly in contents. You know the kind of thing: Lima beans, carrots, etc. ( it took me years to sort out wether carrots had two r's or two t's. You wouldn't believe the ribbing I used to get from the guys on that one.)

You also could hardly imagine how it was when I was moved up to preservatives. I lost so many hours of sleep in those days worrying about making mistakes. You wouldn't believe what a stink they made over the difference between sodium nitrate and sodium pentothal. You would have thought I shot their damn dog. How the hell was I supposed to know? Oh, well, it was all a long time ago and it's all over now, thank god.

Anyway, good luck with the Reynolds Wrap thing. You don't suppose I could still get an entry form do you? You know what? Forget that... bad idea, bad idea.


Teekay Wed Jul 19 20:17:39 PDT 2000

GARIESS: Better the coyotes Hahahahahahahahahahahahah.

Gariess Wed Jul 19 20:13:38 PDT 2000

Dear Rachel,

I am recommending that we begin a naming contest in the NB. I don't believe we have had an official birth in the forum and I rather think it will be an irresistable notion. What a great way to pass the winter months, anticipating the arrival of Rachel's newborn. Personally, I don't see why Magoo would not be a suitable middle name. Other's may not appreciate it but then they have yet to learn of your pet name for me. Well, not any more they don't.


Does it seem surprising to you that among such a small number of participants in this group there should be three people who have and use - or have used - medium format cameras? In the days of 620 film and box cameras that was no big deal, but since the fifties hardly anyone but pros use medium format. I bet I don't know three people in a hundred in my daily life who are roll film shooters. Now, watch two more people come forward in the NB. Jerry pops and says, "Oh, sure, I just bought a new Hasselblad outfit last week. Only cost me $2900.00 but it just has the one lens and an A12 back.

Next Allein says, "Have I told you about the Poloroid back I just got for my Lindhoff 6X12CM. If I had gotten it when I bought the body and the lenses I could have gotten the whole outfit for under five grand."

I hear you can still get a "Diana" for around thirty bucks or so. They still make them in Hong Kong or some such place out of old cars and soda bottles.

I still don't want to make this into a photo forum, but I get the impression that destiny may be more in control, here, than I could ever be. Oh, by the way, Litter. That line you wrote in your post: "Like the saying goes, you show me yours and I'll show you mine!" That's what I should have said to Mrs. Radcliffe... Yeah, you're right, maybe not.

That is a good idea though. I don't mean about Mrs. Radciffe, I mean about posting some pics. I have to learn a lot more about this web stuff so I can do that; I only have conventional images. I do have a scanner around here somewhere, if I get up the gumption to try to connect it up. Knowing what I go through to change a light bulb, I am not sure if I should even think about it. I wonder if Artemis ever showed up. Coyotes probably got him.


P.S. I am glad to see the new faces. Welcome, people.

Teekay Wed Jul 19 20:11:05 PDT 2000

Hi All,

ARIK: I received 'enders game' today. That was quick.

HOWARD: Have sent Quo Vadis today, but it's going to take a while to get to you.

GARIESS: Hah hahahahahah when are you leaving town??? Lucky you didn't have too many brilliant thoughts while you were thus endowed, you could have burnt something off. You don't think your neighbour suspected that you had the missing pussy in your undies do you???

CHRISTI: What's a binaca???

RACHEL: CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!! You must be sooo happy.

LITTER: Hahahhahahahahahah what a relief. I thought I was just going blind. Hahahahahahahah.

ROBI: Ahh, that's much better. Wasn't bored at all. Even laughed in places. You have a very wise dog, treat him well.

Play Group day today. The kiddies made fruit loop necklaces. Now I have to go and get toddler off the roof. Fruit loops are small sugar coated rings of chemicals with assorted food colouring added. (kiddy uppers masquerading as breakfast cereal??)PRETTY...POTENT.

Rachel Wed Jul 19 18:21:29 PDT 2000

Litter - Thanks (big smiles)!

Rachel Wed Jul 19 18:10:57 PDT 2000

Allein - In my Province when a child comes into care they are given full medical benefits. Even their prescriptions are paid for. Their dental is also covered as well. I don't know what the deal is in the states.

There used to be a fellow who visited this site. He was a foster parent in the states. I think his name was Larry. I'm not sure. I remember the story he was writing. He let me read some of it. It was very good. He sort of up and vanished before I got to read the whole story. I still wonder about the characters and what happened to them. He really knew how to write.

I had an e-mail from him at one point that made me think he gave up on writing. That is a real shame. That guy had a shot.

Good luck with your story.

Litter Wed Jul 19 18:06:56 PDT 2000

Many Congrats Rachel -- fun times ahead!

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Waaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Gariess -- Hmm, it was a little cryptic wasn't it. I put one word there as a reminder to myself to say more… but forgot. Duh!!! What I meant to say was I WANT TO SEE SOME PICS. No good just talking about them -- I want to see some. Yours and Eathers. I'm into digital stuff now as you can do so much without getting your fingers smelling like vinegar and scrabbling about in the dark. I do, however, still have the Mamiya 220 Pro that I have owned since new, in 1974. Stunningly good lenses they have too.

But. Like the saying goes, you show me yours and I'll show you mine!

Back to work, maybe bed?


Allein Wed Jul 19 17:38:39 PDT 2000

Rachel - Eight weeks, huh? That means the baby is due in February or March. Cool - maybe it'll come on my birthday. Slim chance, but it could happen. :) I was wondering, in the Province, does the government pay for a foster child's health care and all that. I'm writing a story and one of the characters is a foster child, so I'm a little curious.

Anyone know about the above, only in the States (particularly Idaho)?

Rachel Wed Jul 19 13:42:07 PDT 2000

All - Just so you don't think I'm some sort of baby factory. Two out of my four children are foster children. I do long term care for children who become continuing care wards of the Province. All of my children are excited about the coming of this new wee one. My children are so funny. They all talk to my tummy and give me one hug and then give another hug to my tummy. It is really very sweet.

Rachel Wed Jul 19 12:44:53 PDT 2000

Heather - Thanks!

Mary - My back hurts just thinking about your diaper bag! Thank you for your congrats (smiles).

Allein - Yup I'm pregnant. I have known for quite some time. I became suspicious at one or two weeks. by three weeks all was confimred. I am now 8 weeks along. That is still very early in a pregnancy. My doctor thought that I was further along. She was wrong. I also look forward to seeing you.

Garries - YIKES! What more can I say (grins). You bust me up!


Robi-The Littlest M. Wed Jul 19 12:15:23 PDT 2000

First, a major apology, my brain has been in a blender for the last few days, so anything I wrote disregard it, I was completely out of it. This last week has just been very difficult. Some how it got decided that I was supposed to figure my intire life out by the time I finished the book. I hate higher order, lol. So, that's what I've been trying to do and that's why my messages don't make sense, and I apologize again for that.
So, Heather said for me to "introduce my character", ie myself, so, "a little background".
I'm a young but feel like I'm acient female, who thinks that the world is the best place to learn about everything, not schools. I'm in love, just in general, no one in specific, and have a hard time not liking people. So, that's me. Unless you want an a/s/l, which I don't think you care about.
I really like the "sharing what's in your purse" thing. It makes me feel good to know that I'm not the only one who keeps everything including the sink in my bag.
To answer the question about my writing being anything like my postings, trust me it's not, when I read that I grabbed my cell and called Cole, (Cole's my manager/agent/publisher/dog walker/listener/ect.) and asked him read the postings I put up and compair them to the first several drafts of the novel. He laughed and said if he had read those postings without any knowledge of my regular writing, he would have never ever put me on the contract that he did when I signed at the comapny. But, since he know's my writng, he said that I should just try to explain that I have been completely out of it for the last week, and show you my regular writing. I said I'd think about posting my writing, but I wouldn't want anyone to think of me as a crazy woman who writes random things on message boards, so I would try to clarify that. It's good to have people around you that keep you in check. Anyway, I'll write later, I think I'm going to go for a walk, clear my head a bit, and come back later.
Nice writing to you all,

Mary Wed Jul 19 12:11:02 PDT 2000

RACHEL: had to cut my post off prematurely in lieu of a toddler-fight, but just wanted to jump back in here and say Congratulations and good luck. That is wonderful news!!!

VALERIE: aNYTIME! (grrrr, darn caps lock)


gariess Wed Jul 19 12:00:35 PDT 2000

You guys are great, but I have to tell you, my pockets are so uninteresting in comparison to yours. Contents at this moment: Lint, lint stuck to hard piece of candy, movie stub, lint stuck to antacid tablet, one unidentifiable object that might have once been a soft candy or a hard antacid also covered in lint. That's it.


The C220 and C330 are two classic TLR's from their time. They are still used by wedding photographers and they perform excellently for lots of professionals. The square format is nice because you don't have to think about whether your shot is vertical or horizontal. That's as far as I want to go on the subject. Some people will get nervous if it looks like I am trying to turn this into a photo forum. I am pondering Litter's somewhat cryptic notation to us: "Photography."

Rachel, that is the last time I hug any girls on this board. I don't want to hear any remarks about who this kid looks like, people. Anyway, congratulations, dear Rachel.

Later, you guys.

Allein Wed Jul 19 11:48:58 PDT 2000

Rachel - You're pregnant? Congrats!! Did you just find out, or have you known? Anyway, it's great news! ((((BIG HUGE HUGS)))) I look foreward to seeing you next month.

Valerie Wed Jul 19 11:13:40 PDT 2000

Dear Friends,

Hope I have this format down -

MARY: Thanks for the encouragement!
MARK: I will try that sink idea tonight
AVATAR: Thanks for the welcome
TEEKAY: The rest of my life is a nice idea considering my current one is frantic!
RHODA: Thank you for the welcome.

Yesterday I had a banner writing day - started three short stories, only one of which I can't stand already. The best one is about Regina, a hostile woman working in her family's restaurant in Little Italy. I like how she's turning out and the words are coming- slowly, but they are. I have the house to myself today. So I contemplate Regina, clean the bathroom, try to remember some Italian, mop the floor.

Have been reading three "How To" books on nonficiton and of course all at once as I cannot be happy trying to do anything in any sensible fashion. But I have exacted some tips on tension and plot, so perhaps some of my reading will pay off.

Oh, yes, I have sunk to a new low. Yesterday I entered the Reynolds Wrap 100 word prose/poem contest to win a trip for 4 to the Bahamas or 26 visits from Merry Maids. While writing about foil would normally send me into a funk, I thought - well, for maid service I will have to get over it. I put it in the mail quickly and am in denial already.

I got my Writers Workbook Login and Password. I type in the location www. blah blah blah and I get nothing. So reading my handy print out, I see that I may have to contact Jack and try again. Any tips?

I hope your writing is fun today.


Litter Wed Jul 19 10:58:23 PDT 2000

Hi Guys and Guyesses,

Debra and Valerie -- Welcome! Hope you enjoy it here.

Backlog of catching up to do so, using second-hand comments, hope your interview goes/went well Jack, and to all who are blighted by plague, pestilence and crystal balls -- hope y'all get better soon…

Debra -- where was your book when I needed it??? Both my kids are now passed the stage where they would have read it :o|

Gariess and Heater -- Photography

Gariess -- you have more confidence that I have to fill your shorts/y's with fragile glass… Ouch, oyah, uuuggghhh, nggghhh. Just as well you didn't slip. Embarrassment was probably the least you deserved. :o)

Rhoda -- hope you find a house big enough to have us all round for a soiree.

Teekay -- I think the contents of Cliff's undies have probably atrophied????

Gerry E -- I for one am glad that you posted Mary's e-mail here -- there is some good info there. Some of it I knew but much of it I didn't. Ta!

OK people, I have decided -- I've been toying with several starts of several book projects. One has to be Sci-Fi, but I like to have something to fall back on when I need a break from the genre. However, with all this talk of weapons and stuff and having come in contact with a couple of multi million selling murder mystery authors -- one who came from the village where I now live and one who attended the High School my kids go to -- I thought I'd give that genre a go. Looking at my work history, experience and friends, it should have been an obvious choice…

I used to shoot and coach small and full-bore target rifle, and shoot small-bore pistol. (before it was outlawed in the UK) I have been a forensic photographer. (and lots of other kinds of photographer) I've worked with offenders and have several friends in the police. My wife is a nurse and we have numerous nurse and doctor friends… Why oh why did I not think of it before? The manuscript has gotten off to a good start, so watch this space. (After a suitable delay, of course.)

In my pockets I have a comb, keys (house and car), an AmEx platinum card and about £1,500 and change.

Well that's it for now. Apologies to anyone I have overlooked.

Ciao for now,


PS I lied about the AmEx platinum card.
PPS -- I lied about the cash too, but I do have a huge overdraft.

Mary Wed Jul 19 10:55:01 PDT 2000

RACHEL: You should have seen me as a new mother! I bet my diaper bag weighed 40 pounds..I was so afraid I would need something and not have it with us. I got over that in about 6 months though. When I eventually realized that I didn't really need 6 diapers, 84 wipes, 3 outfits, 4 bottles, baby tylenol, nail clippers, bulb syringe, thermometer, 2 rattles, shot records, and about 5 pounds of stuff I cant remember to walk 2 blocks over to my mom's house. I never did go in for the "cadillac diaper bags" though. I preferred an un-mother-looking tote bag. I had several and would trade them off to match the kids outfits. What an idiot. Oh my aching back...A* was right about carrying all that stuff. Gotta go...c-ya.

Heather Wed Jul 19 10:20:53 PDT 2000


Gariess, laughed hard enough to dislodge whatever it was in my eye. Oh, yes, tears.

I have a Mamiya C220 TLR, in mint condition. It appears to have never been used before I got my hands on it. My father in law gave it to me, and he had bought it new in the late 50's or early 60's.
I shoot mostly TMY because I haven't experimented any further. It took me six months to get up the gall to fool around with it, take it all apart to see how the lenses can be changed, etc. Sometimes I take it out and give all the moving parts a go. Just feathering the fingers over the bellows is thrill enough.
My other camera outfit is 35mm, Minolta Maxxum 5xi, with every bell and whistle but a fisheye lens. That's next on the list. It's something that I'd like personally, but I think a few wedding photos with the fisheye would be - well, just for a laugh. Not for the all-important first kiss shot, though.

Littlest Monarch, from your first post we had no idea what was going on. That first post appeared to me to be on the wrong site - as if you were leaving a message for someone - and had hopped onto the wrong board. Your posts still seem that way. If you are worried about holes in your writing, all you need to know is in your post. First, introduce the character(ie: you). Give us a little bit of backround. Then start filling us in on the action and dilemma. Unfortunately, you didn't do any of that. I only hope your novel isn't anything like your posts.

Well, off I go.
Kids want lunch on the deck. Happy sigh.

Americo Wed Jul 19 09:52:41 PDT 2000


The deadline for SM** was July 7. But I will be very pleased to read any texts you wish to email me any time. You have the right qualities to become a writer (originality, imagination and a voice of your own). I don't think you need advice on what you asked: how to make the mood in a story. Judging from what I have read by you, you are already quite good at it. The only piece of advice I might give you is NOT to prepare your stories too much. That may be a form of procrastination. Just write when inspiration comes, and do the research you need in the intervals of writing. You'll discover that, after much sweat and tears, a book writes itself, as if it were its own creator. Now it's your turn to give me your advice, please.

A question, if I may: why have you chosen fantasy as your preferred genre? I think you have a talent for it, and you've chosen well. But fantasy is only excellent when it sounds real, that is to say, when it is accepted and cherished by the eye of Man's infinite capacity for hope. I believe in the world of Alice, as Lewis Carrol was so good, and I have no doubt that hobbits do exist, since Tolkien created them so well. I am not quite sure that you have built the perfect bridge between reality and dream yet.

But you are so young and tender that I kiss your freckles, dimples and hair plaits without further ado.

Rachel Wed Jul 19 09:32:38 PDT 2000

Mary - I still think you must be a total sweetie. My children were born 15 months apart. I have checked with my husband to make sure I have not blocked out hauling crap. He tells me that we never did. It just wasn't something we were willing to do. When we went out we were going to do activities. Our children just didn't need a lot of stuff. Then again they never really wanted to bring much. My daughter from the age of six months would clutch whatever toy she wanted to bring and she would care for it while we were out. My son was the same way. If he brought it he knew that he was to care for it. In February I will get to see how I back a diaper bag again. I'll let you know then if anything has changed (grins). Yup, I'm pregnant! I don't think that I'll pack any differently. I all ready have my eye on the bag that I am going to carry. Small and unassuming.

Debra J. Palardy Wed Jul 19 07:59:46 PDT 2000

Hi Mary:

I have five children. Two of them are two years old. Yes, twins. They are as adorable as they are hard to manage. I spend a whole lot of time carrying crap, as well. The next time your back hurts from crap carrying, remember my mother's famous words. "little kids little problems. big kids big problems. Now that one of my children is 24 years old is make crystal clear sense.

He is in New York on a business trip for three months. I am getting old worrying. He thinks it is funny. I don't.

Also, I hope you take a look at my book. It will suck the power out of these young boy's words. I use 100 of their lines and when they say any one of them, and they will, they will look like an idiot. Human nature dictates that this will be true.

I love the shortness it is as important as any one of the words.



Jerry Ericsson Wed Jul 19 07:41:28 PDT 2000

Gariess -

Just read your post, now it didn't bother the wife, as she had just left for work, but my cat and dog sit beside my chair looking in awe, as they have never seen a human laugh so much before. Loved the story, it truely deserves publication somewhere, just don't have the where in mind.

Write on!


Mary Wed Jul 19 07:23:38 PDT 2000

RACHEL: My kids are only 1 and 2 years old and don't do much carrying of anything except sippy cups and teddy bears. I look forward to the day when I can tell them to carry their own crap( I think...but that would mean they have to grow up and I dont want to think about that right now. I want them to be small forever). smiles to you.

MARK: That statement is not entirely true...the index cards and altoids are mine!!! :-)

GS: Do you know how to paint a mental picture or what? Thanks, I needed that laugh.

DEBRA: Thanks for the info. Good Luck!!!!!!!

EVERYONE ELSE: Have a great day!!!! Write-on!!!

NO WAIT! I ALMOST FORGOT JERRY: Thank you sooo much, that is exactly what I needed to know. Stance and all...:-)

TEEKAY: So good to see you, how are you?

Gariess Tue Jul 18 23:46:51 PDT 2000


All this time and I had no idea that you were a medium format shooter. What kind of 120 camera do you use? I have an RB67, a Mamiya 645, a Hassy with one A16 back and an old 12 back. Also I have a 120 roll holder for my Calumet Cadet 4X5, the one with the sporty red bellows. I don't count the Omega Rapid 100, but it did some great work in its day before the shutter got tempermantal.

I shoot mostly chrome but also some BXW and Fuji 160 for candid portrait stuff. Maybe some day we can post on the photo boards as shutter buddies.



Christi (again) Tue Jul 18 23:45:45 PDT 2000

"God bless Gariess", I splutter out as tears stream down my face. There are no words. None. Just laughter; lots and lots of laughter.

Jessica Tue Jul 18 23:35:31 PDT 2000

Thanks all for the advice! It realy is nice to find people who understand about a writers life, I know very few people who I can relate with about writing. Most people just think that I am waisting my time on a career that won't get me any where, but I am determined to prove them wrong. (Mostly because I can't stand the people who think that and I am just itching to prove them wrong.) Being a writer is kind of tuff, but, I know that I can make it, and if not, then I will have one fun time trying. After all, If you love your job then is it realy work? I just have to sit down and actualy finish something. I have about seven started, and not finished, stories.

Heather, the inventory of my purse:
Chewing-gum (cinnimon flavored)
wallet (license, money, movie rental cards)
and thats it.

Christi Tue Jul 18 23:30:47 PDT 2000

Curses! Why can't I just lurk for one day, like everyone else?

All bow to Teekay, mistress of the yucks. Hi T.! Your post was such a riot, but unfortunately my husband didn't find it to be so funny. (My giggling woke him up. He was rather grumpy about the whole thing, so I blamed it all on you.)
BTW, didn't Cliff Richard sing "Devil Woman"? I love that song!

Amen sister.

My purse is one of those leather backpack looking things. It's attempting to be chic, but what it really is is a giant garbage collecter. Here goes.

A bunch of hair dohickies
An athsma inhaler
Tons of change
Many slips of paper with people's telephone numbers on them, people who I have no intention of calling . . . ever.
Eyebrow pencil (blonde)
Lipstick and gloss
Binaca (wintergreen)
Three rolls of film to be developed from my new camera (fingers crossed)
Pens galore
Reciepts galore
Wallet/checkbook (packed with too much to list)
Pepper spray (at husband's insistance)
Clinique hand lotion (free sample)
Mushed packet of crackers (just like Mary's)
AND unidentifiable debris on bottom (also just like Mary's)

To everyone,
Hi! I love you all and wish I had time to say more, but my unhappy hubby is insisting on lights out, and to tell you the truth, I can use all the winks I can get.



Jessica Tue Jul 18 23:29:59 PDT 2000

Thanks all for the advice! It realy is nice to find people who understand about a writers life, I know very few people who I can relate with about writing. Most people just think that I am waisting my time on a career that won't get me any where, but I am determined to prove them wrong. (Mostly because I can't stand the people who think that and I am just itching to prove them wrong.) Being a writer is kind of tuff, but, I know that I can make it, and if not, then I will have one fun time trying. After all, If you love your job then is it realy work? I just have to sit down and actualy finish something. I have about seven started, and not finished, stories.

Heather, the inventory of my purse:
Chewing-gum (cinnimon flavored)
wallet (license, money, movie rental cards)
and thats it.

gariess Tue Jul 18 23:18:17 PDT 2000

Hello All,

You may recall it has been a week or so since my last visit to the Notebook. I suppose I should catch up on some of the postings before I go on, but I don’t feel so inclined at the moment, and how often I don’t do as I should would be a good heading for the anecdote I have for you today.

I got back from my Maine trip yesterday in the late afternoon, and as I promised I would before I left, I was booting up the Notebook for a visit. It’s only fair to mention at this point that in the sultry weather, I customarily hang out in my den wearing only a pair of jockey shorts (and now that I think of it, hanging out is not the ideal way to describe the activity.)

The point is that I live here alone so I have no special concerns about propriety around the house as it were. We have only a few dog days in the summer and for that small number of muggy days, installing air conditioning is hardly practical so I practice a bit of casual living for the sake of comfort. It should also be noted that my computer sits a few feet into the den from the slider window which faces the back yard. In the back yard there is privacy fencing and the view from the open yard to the east does not look into my den although it provides an easy access for anyone who would walk into the yard.

Just as luck would have it, the overhead light burned out as I was booting up. I cursed it, of course, because it is one of those fixtures that can’t quite be reached without getting up on something, and I hate getting up on something. Every time this happens, I vow not to get up on the chair twice, and every time I do, something unforeseen causes me to climb up twice, or even more.

Keeping my long standing oath in mind I climbed up onto the computer chair with a fresh light bulb in hand. This cursed fixture has a globe with set screws that must be loosened in order to gain access to the bulbs. I was able to undo the necessary screws to free the dome while holding the fresh bulb in my hand, but since I had to make a place for it in one of the sockets, I had to free both hands to remove a dead bulb. To accomplish this I slipped the new bulb into the front of my jockeys, or "Y" fronts as the English prefer to call them.

When I unscrewed one of the dead bulbs, I gingerly switched it with the one in my jockeys and made the replacement. This worked well and I had the triumphant feeling (the bulb was still a bit warm but that wasn’t the source of my inspiration) that I was, for the first time, going to succeed in replacing a bulb with only one trip up onto the chair (as our young people would say, I totally hate climbing up on stuff.) All this was done with one hand because I had to hang onto the globe.

It then occurred to me that I should remove the other dead bulb because this might somehow cause confusion in some future replacement mission. I only wanted one bulb working in this fixture. I couldn’t recall why there were still two in place.

Risking whatever consequence might result from staying too long on the chair, I unscrewed the remaining dead bulb and carefully lodged it next to the other in my cotton pouch, making sure they were both safely secured by the elastic where my thighs (such as they are) come together.

This, one must understand, was all gingerly accomplished while holding the globe which I had yet to replace and tighten down with the screws. While I was in the process of doing this very uncomfortable task, (my face was too close to the fixture) I heard thumping footsteps coming up the deck stairs and then a rapping on the slider window. I couldn’t see around the fixture and I couldn’t imagine who in the hell would be in my back yard at this unlikely moment. All I could think of in that split second was that the girl might be here to read the electric meter, but she never came to the door before and there would be no reason for her to do so.

With the next series of frantic raps I heard the voice of Mrs. Radcliffe, my neighbor across the street. She has a distinctly foggy voice and even when the speaks loudly she doesn’t get much volume behind her words. I thought, What a hell of a time for old lady Radcliffe to show up in the back yard, but I just as quickly realized that it would only be something urgent and serious that would bring her to do such a thing. Still, I couldn’t let go of the damn globe until I got one more screw fastened down. I called to her to give me a moment, but she was apparently in a state of anxiousness. Her anemic fog horn of a voice kept asking me if I had seen something or someone.

Finally, I had the globe secured and I slowly got down from the chair. I could see the old woman’s face and she was clearly overwrought. If I hadn’t been so caught up in her anxiety and my own curiosity about her plight, I might have realized that her look of urgency might easily have been one of amazement.

"Oddemass!" she was shouting. Or was it "Ottemiss?" "Ottoman?" What the hell could constitute an ottoman crisis? I moved closer to the glass and I finally understood that she was saying, "Artemis!" Who the hell is Artemis, I wondered? She must have read the question on my face because she hesitated and looked at me with the impatience one has for an especially dense child who can’t seem to comprehend a simple thought.

"My cat! She wheezed. "Artemis!" Have you seen him?"

Hell’s bells, at this point I might only have guessed that one of the cat’s in the neighborhood belonged to Mrs. Radcliffe. I really didn’t even know she had a cat.

"No," I called through the glass. "I haven’t seen him." My next brilliant thought was to ask what Artemis looked like, but I was talking to the disappearing back of the old woman who was headed off the deck and out of the yard, her heavy hips waddling at full speed down the steps.

As usual, when the excitement blows over one’s thoughts switch back to matters at hand (again an unfortunate and inaccurate choice of expression.) The feeling of two strange objects against my nether parts brought me back, generally, to my former state of mind and I realized then that I must have been an incredible sight to the old woman just a few seconds earlier. The idea of being caught by a neighbor in my own den wearing only a pair of jockeys would never be a great concern to me, but I did have some misgivings about the extra-organic enhancements I had been sporting at the time of Mrs. Radcliffe’s cat crisis.

I removed the light bulbs from the "Y" fronts and put on a pair of walking shorts as an after-reaction to the whole business and determined to put it from my mind. Still, try as I may, I couldn’t return to the computer and the Notebook without my mind jumping back to that remarkable incident.

I kept wondering what I must really have looked like at the time, and if it was really as bad as I imagined? Actually, I had no real viewpoint from which to judge. A slightly over-sized belly and a certain lack of agility was enough to block any chance of my judging the impact of the sight.

In a bid to settle the question once and for all, I fished the expired bulbs out of the waste basket, removed the walking shorts and restored the Edisons to their recent lodging in my shorts. I went into the spare bedroom, where the closet door has a full length mirror on the outside. I rarely have any occasion to inspect the sight of my full form which explains why the spare room is the one with the long mirror. None-the-less I stood for a second before the glass to take in the full reckoning of what I had presented to Mrs. Radcliffe a few moments earlier. It was a sight to behold after all. Still, I didn’t think I was giving myself the true benefit of the view as it had been in the den where the light was much brighter.

It seems once I became caught up in the experiment I began to forget the probable shock value I might have had on Mrs. Radcilffe, and for whatever reason, I began an objective review of my newly assumed state. I drew up the shade of the window and looked again. Remarkable, I thought, but there had been even more light in the den, so I drew up the shade on the window that looked out into the back yard. This replicated the light in the den as closely as possible.

I tried a few different poses. First the full frontal, arms akimbo. This was the one that a person assumes naturally it seemed to me. Not bad, but speaking strictly for the visual effect, the shadow definition seemed a bit lacking. I wanted to try something else. How about the right profile, usually my better side, anyway. Not too bad, I thought when I looked from that angle. Still it seemed there must be an optimum aspect that I was missing. The quarter profile, I thought. Yes. Outstanding, I discovered, but then that was the weakly lighted side. I turned to try the same pose to the left and let the direct window light act as the main illumination, that should be the definitive image, Yes. There it is, I exclaimed to myself! Man in his most fanciful image. The exaggerated human male. I beheld this wondrous image for a second or more before I was overcome with boredom.

My mind at this point seemed to have had its fill of this foolish activity, and I turned to face the window as I waited for my next train of thought to leave the station. In that split second I realized that a face was returning my gaze from the back yard just beyond the window.

It was at that moment when I realized the true meaning of the reference to the deer in the headlights. I thought, "Oh, sure. That is, after all, where they put the electric meter. Right under the window, you dumb…"

The meter girl, I’m sure was thinking something else, although I would not attempt to put that into words. Neither would the meter girl at that moment, I should think. She made no move to look away as if to do that would have been to acknowledge that she was actually there, and actually looking. Looking at what had to be the most interesting sight she had seen that day, not to mention strange. Did I mention strange?

After some uncountable seconds (or split seconds) passed, it occurred to me that I might try looking for something in the closet. This would turn the mirror to the girl at the window and effectively block her view of me which was the good part of this suddenly conceived plan. I opened the closet door and in that moment I realized the girl didn’t know the closet wasn’t just another room so I stepped inside and shut the door.

During those moments in the spare closet, that unlikely interlude with the smell of old clothing and the remembrance of the moth balls of bygone days, I took some time to reflect upon the seriousness of life, the small twists and turns in a persons destiny that move a man through his days. At this moment I noted to myself, a grown man, a fully bonafide member of his society, a sovereign being in his own world, is standing in a closet in his underwear with two glass balls bulging out the stitches of his jockey shorts, while waiting for a girl to read the electric meter and go away. It occurred to me that this would be as good a time as any to take the light bulbs out of my underwear.

Of course, I was wrong, there had been a much better time to have done that. A question badgered my mind. Is this the kind of thing I expected to be doing when I got up this morning? Did I mention the seriousness of life?


Teekay Tue Jul 18 21:43:36 PDT 2000

Whoopsy, sorry HEATHER, a case of mistaken identity. I guess I thought it was you cos RHODA wrote something to you next and I thought you were signing it. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.
Gotta go.

Rhoda Tue Jul 18 21:19:48 PDT 2000

Teekay and Rachel,

I called Hallee's husband a jewel, and that he is. Perhaps I view this from my situation. For my husband to do such a thing, he would have to cancel several appointments and take time off from work. He would readily do it for me, but I would still be grateful. Yes fathers do not babysit, but for some dads to be with their kids for days on end with the mother not there is difficult, espacially if their hours at work are long. For me being a single parent for a few days is easy, but then I don't have an outside job and the responsibility for earning a living for the whole family. That sounds terribly traditional and old-fashioned I guess, but then I am sort of odd anyway.

Househunting is doing well. I am at the hotel borrowing my husband's notebook computer.

Valerie, welcome on board.

What is in my purse? God only knows, for I sure don't most of the time.

Happy writing,


Teekay Tue Jul 18 19:53:22 PDT 2000

RACHEL: Yep. Off the wall girly. Your Hubby and I actually agree.

Rachel Tue Jul 18 19:50:13 PDT 2000

I just saw something in Teekays post about a man being a real jewel for being with his own children. It is a good thing that my husband did not see that post. He would have been right ticked.

Dan says that a father doesn't baby sit. That a father spends time with his children. Every time that somebody tells him what a great guy he is for babysitting the kids he gets in a twist. He will ask them if they think that he should be paid for being with his children. He doesn't understand why anyone wouldn't want to spend as much time as humanly possible with their children.

Ah well, just a little pet peeve thing.

I didn't see the post so I could be responding in a really off the wall way. If am I, well, now you all know how my husband feels about "babysitting"

Teekay Tue Jul 18 19:41:28 PDT 2000

Hi All.
Well I've just got to say that getting into the notebook today was harder than getting into Cliff Richard's undies. Now that I'm here I'll take a look and see which contents are more interesting. Hahahahahahah.

RHODA: It can get really cold here, and does. We got snow a while back and that was at the end of Autumn. It all just depends where you live. Some places are never cold in winter. I used to live in Cairns and Winter was like a wonderfully balmy summer. Summer was humid and stormy, but that was okay cos it was on the coast. Anyway, i was younger and single and had lots of other stuff to think about. Notice i said younger.
Bathurst is a horribly cold place to live. Last Summer I think there were only about 10 really hot days. I am not a lover of the cold, and now that I am young and married I seem a lot more weather focused.
The real problem is, however, that the work room can be closed off from the rest of the house. My hubby has claimed this as his room and smokes like a chimney in it (not allowed to anywhere else, nor here if I'm in it.) and the room reeks of stale smoke so I have to have all the windows open and therefor4e I freeze when I'm in here, which lately hasn't been often.
I used to smoke myself once, but then I looked at my overflowing ashtray and the patients I used to nurse who relied on the oxygen cylinders they carried around with them for every second breath they took, and I woke up to myself.
Gee, I hope this wasn't as long and boring as it looks.
P.S. You are going to have the best time house hunting.

AMERICO: Hugs and kisses to you. Enjoy your creativity. I have at the moment throttled mine and left it writhing under the bed. It just refuses to die.

JACK: Interview? What interview? I was unable to get into the archives and find out. Good luck anyhow.

HALLEE: (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

HEATHER: Why is HALLEE'S husband a real jewel? He is only looking after his own child. It is to be expected is it not? I have just finished reading Fay Weldon. She always brings out the worst?? in me.

I've decide to become and elitist snob. I'm a bit sick of this persona, I'm going to try another on for size.

JACK: I have just found out about your summer cold. Do you realise that a Summer cold for a man can be highly dangerous/ At the very least, you should be in hospital.

THE LITTLEST MONARCH: I skimmed your post and it sounded exeptionally boring and confusing, so I read it again and found that I was right the first time. Such precious moments watsed to never be recaptured. You have a lot to answer for.

MARY: Be sure you don't ask for any pointers at the firing range. Heh heh heh (controlled elitist smirking.)

HEATHER: I don't carry a bag. Just one weeny tiny purse. With only a little teeny tiny bit of money and some plastic. I am simplifying my life.

JESSICA: Yes I do. I should write it in a book and make some money out of it, but that's already been done, so here it is. are you ready? YOU JUST DO IT. If you do it, you are a writer, if you don't do it, you are not a writer, such a little bitty, thing to do, but, oh, so hard.

VALERIE: Just to cheer you up, you still have the rest of your life. I console myself a lot with that thought.

HEATHER: Your list is sure to scare of some to be writers. JESSICA, all you need is paper, pen, time and imagination. the other stuff can come later. First find out if you need it or not.

THE LITTLEST M: Was that last post about holes an actual example?

Okay Cliff, guess you'll have to do. Come along then.

Jerry A.G. Ericsson Tue Jul 18 19:38:14 PDT 2000

Mary, here is the e-mail that I sent, maybe I had the address wrong or something, so I will just post it here. The rest can ignore it if they so desire, don't want to start a fight or anything talking about weapons.

There are several hundred different models of .38 spcl. revolvers, and a couple of semi-automatic pistols chambered for that round. The kick would depend on the pistol in question. The most common .38's that were carried by police officers, before the advent of the double action automatic took over was the K Frame Smith and Wesson Model 19 (blue)/ model 66 (Stainless), and the L Frame Model 686. These revolvers were chambered for the .357 Magnum round, but usually fired .38 Spcl rounds in practice. (The .357 Mag kicked too much to be accurately fired.) These were carried by the uniform officers, and normally had a 4 inch barrel in that form. Under cover officers, and Detectives used to carry the 2 inch barrel models, most common was the model 36, chiefs special. These were much smaller revolvers, and fired only the .38 spcl rounds. They did kick quite a bit more then their heavier brothers. The two inch pistols were rather inaccurate, and were ment to be used in very close range. The 4 inch pistols firing the .357 Mag rounds were much more accurate, and powerful. These weapons were replaced in most police departments by the .40 caliber automatics, most made again by the Smith and Wesson Company. Other officers prefer the old .45 ACP Pistol, such as the Astra that I carried during my last five years on the force.

The best way for anyone to fire the .38, no matter which pistol that is used is the Weaver stance. THis method the Pistol is held in the right hand, both arms extended, and the left hand is then wrapped around the right. (This is hard to explain without showing you). Both arms extended fully, the revolver being about center on the body, elbows facing nearly down, and locked. This provides some support to the weapon, and keeps it more steady then a one handed method. Most target firing is done in the single action mode, that being the hammer is first pulled to the rear by the thumb of the left hand, then the pistol is fired by gently squeezing the trigger. You should be surprised when the pistol fires, if it is done properly, by squeezing the trigger, you do not full the pistol to the right or left as when the the trigger is pulled, or jerked.

When firing the weapon, it is important that your body also be prepared, your feet about shoulder width apart, knees slightly bent, and not locked (locking them will cause the body to sway, and interfere with your accuracy). The rest of the body, slightly relaxed, breath normally, then just before squeezing the trigger, breath in, let the breath about half way out, then hold it, as you begin the squeeze. Again this is a proven method for not allowing the breathing to interfere with accuracy.

As far as kicking, it depends on a lot, first the weight of the weapon, as I said the 4 inch pistol is about right for a mild recoil, the lighter will recoil more. There is no real kick, the pistol will simply rise after firing, and if your arms are in the stance above, you will simply notice the buck of the weapon. Another factor is the load used, there are several loadings of .38 spcl rounds. The least recoil is from the wad cutter target loads, these are designed for target shooters, and have a very light recoil, they appear as the brass cartridge with no noticeable lead going beyond the brass. The semi-wad cutter is designed to do the same, and may have just slightly more powder, thus more recoil. They appear as the brass cartridge, with a squared off solid flat nosed lead. Next comes the standard load, which has the brass (or chrome on all of them) with a round nose lead slug protruding from the end of the cartridge. These have quite a bit more powder, thus more recoil. Next comes the plus P and Plus P Plus rounds, these are made for the heavy 4 inch barrel .38 spcls and 357 Mags. They have much more recoil, and usually have a hollow point slug, which is copper clad at least half of the slug. They have much greater recoil, and are the choice of most officers who have to carry the .38 Spcl weapons, due to their increased power, and better penetration when used against a person. Hope this gives you the idea.


Debra J. Palardy Tue Jul 18 19:31:38 PDT 2000

Hi Mary:

My book is on and and It will be in stores soon.

To find it on the .com's just type Sweetie and it will come up on a short list of books.

Also, Amazon is the only one at this point that has the picture.



Avatar Tue Jul 18 19:16:29 PDT 2000

Okay, I must first apologize if anyone wrote anything to me before Jack archived, because I can't get in and see it, then answer it.

Enough apologizing...

Jon- Just for those words(see bottom post), I'm reserving all this catnip growing around my yard, drying it, and sending it off to you. Or would you prefer the fresh kind?

Eddie- have you been hiding in the Notebook attic too? Or were you in the basement? I didn't see you up there! Where have you been? ;)

Jack- Try inhaling some peppermint tea vapors. That and drinking it always makes me feel better when I have a cold. Or you could just throw some vinegar and water on the stove and start boiling it. I don't know how it works, but my mom does it and whatever mom does for colds and humidity and whatnot has to be right!

Americo- Hugs and kisses! ;)
I'm still trying to decide whether or not I want to turn green with envy and send in my address. I'll let you (or is it Rachel I'm supposed to tell?) know when I've decided. I just don't like looking like a half-ripe tomato, that's all. ;)
Oh, and, here's a thought: Depending on how much you want to edit, why don't you open up S and M again on the workbook while you're working on the other project? Maybe a few more gems will crop up, you never know!

Jessica- JUST DO IT! Hee hee, we're being lots of help aren't we? I know it's a little difficult to do even that. Look at me! I've finally realized that I'm a 'gotta get a lot of info first' kinda person! After JUST DOING IT, no less. Starting really depends on what kind of person you are. If you jump into things, or if you have to prepare. But you'll never know until you try, will you?

Welcome Valerie!

Good luck to Tina!

Hallee- Be comforted in knowing that many prayers will be sent heavenward for you!

Heather- I carry only my license, in a wallet of course, a piece of paper, pen or pencil and my house keys. If I had a purse, I don't think I'd manage to remember to carry it around!

All- One question- how do you make the mood in a story? Say if you want the mood to be ominous, dark, how would you go about doing that in a subtle manner?

That's it for me
Later all

Mark Tue Jul 18 19:12:20 PDT 2000

MARY -- Your purse has:
Kid's stuff
Kid's stuff
Kid's stuff
Kid's stuff
Kid's stuff

Hmm. Therein lies a tale.

HEATHER, JESSICA, AND ALL -- Agreed. Just sit down and write. Write like somebody else until you find your own voice. Imitation IS the sincerest form of flattery. Throw out the thesaurus. (Had a writer hand me a story about baseball, he didn't want to repeat 'scattered' so he thesaurused it and told us that the hits were disipated over three innings.) Nothing succeeds like success, nobody writes like a writer. So write.

VALERIE -- Welcome. Mentor of mine told me how she got her PhD in the muddle of busy family life: she worked and wrote at the sink. She'd sit down at the table and the kids and hubby wd bug her, but if she was at the sink, they'd say "Mom's doing the dishes, let her finish." I get some of that, too. My strategy is to get up later than my wife and stay up later. During the evening I can do what I want after she's gone to bed. (Wow, has my life changed.)

LF Pocket - Keys (3 vehicle, 1 office (that's right, no house key)) in a small leather case
RF Pocket - Money (varying amounts) number of coins depend on how loose the pants are, wear loose pants and the change jingles too much.
LR Pocket - Wallet with ID (5 store cards, library, Driver's License, SocSecCard, pix of wife and niece, ATM card (no credit cards))
RR Pocket - comb, or pick, and checkbook when necessary

Rachel Tue Jul 18 17:44:28 PDT 2000

Mary - Know what? I have four children. They are 7, 9, 9 and 11. I tell them to carry their own things if they want to bring something when we go out. I hate purses. Always have and always will. When I had to carry a diaper bag I found a nice, small unassuming thing, which was also packed in a light way. Only the things that the wee one would need. You must be a sweetie to haul all that stuff for your kiddies.

Mary Tue Jul 18 17:24:24 PDT 2000

A*- Younger girls don't have three kids to tote stuff around for. I didn't carry as much ten years ago, that is for certain.

Americo Tue Jul 18 15:18:20 PDT 2000

Heather (and other girls)

What people carry in their bags tell a lot about them. Women tend to carry heavy purses, and that is bad for their health. When they start losing bone density, their spine suffers the consequences: scoliosis, discal hernia and other column diseases. Notice that the younger generation of girls is much cleverer: they just carry some money, their cars' documents and keys, and a lipstick. (No chocolates and chewing -gum is out-dated).

I carry a wallet with a credit card and some small change, a packet of cigarettes and a lighter. Okay, no cigarettes and lighters (this just to avoid discussions).

For some reason, your description of a "bad book" reminded me of Emily Brontë's "Wuthering Heights", one of the masterpieces of English literature... A "bad" theme can become a masterpiece in the hands of a great writer, exactly as a bad writer spoils the best of themes. Good fiction is not just theme, or story, or plot, or any of those things. Good literature is just good writing. All depends on the talent to use words and create worlds. Like music or any other art. Okay, with some exceptions (this just to avoid discussions).

Thought of the month: A writer needs to be prepared to be misunderstood and the perseverance to prove he/she is right — sometimes this takes time. The only things that he/she should fear are times and tides.

PS. Correction of a previous post. The first name of Freud was Sigmund (not Sigismund of course).

Mary Tue Jul 18 14:00:01 PDT 2000

can you guys tell I have a lot of time on my hands today? Here is my purse contents:

3 tubes lipstick(crimson, honeycomb, toffee)
daughters pink sparkly hair brush
2 packs juicy fruit
3X5 spiral bound index cards
seems like 43 pens-actually only 17
plastic fork
trial pack of wet-ones(trademark)
blue glitter nail polish???
smashed pack of saltine crackers
unlabeled floppy disk
2 condoms
french dictionary
kids' shot records
undeveloped roll of 35mm film from July 4th
assorted unidentifiable debris sunk on bottom

wallet with:
kids pics from Christmas
medical cards
credit cards
drivers license
4 library cards
change-mostly pennies
$24.00 cash
various receipts for groceries, ink cartridges and ammo

I promise not to post again today. C-YA!!!!

Allein Tue Jul 18 13:47:15 PDT 2000

The contents of my wallet include the following:
Safeway Club Card
Rite Rewards Card
ID card
Library Card
Bank Card
$5 cash

I also carry around a little backpack with me, inside is the following:
4 bobby pins
Little tin box containing bandaids, kleenex and Qtips (this is a little makeshift 1st aid kit)
5 bottles of nail polish
Little mirror from my locker at school (used to be boyfriend's)
Collection of keychains (incl. school tassel) with only two keys (front door and bike chain)
Gauze (also for 1st aid)
Red silk bag w/ ipecac syrup in it (also 1st aid)
2 Tampons
Exaco knife
Lipstick - "Starlit Pink"
Pen (but no paper)

Believe it or not, I still have room in my bag. :)

The Littlest M Tue Jul 18 13:33:07 PDT 2000

So, that's how you do it. Say, "I need help with my writing", and everyone responses to what you say. I can do that....but I don't need help writing, I need helpfilling in holes.
Everyone's advice that I read was really good though, I wish I had been given that advice when I was doing the novel. Maybe I wouldn't need to fill in quite so many holes.
The holes are the parts I'm missing, the novel's done, it's just not complete yet, I suppose that makes not really, oh well.
I share stupid things to spark things inside myself, that's why you've read me write about my love life and my disordered life before. Looking at things typed makes me think about it as if I were reading it for the first time.
Drink plenty of fluids,
The Littlest M.

Mary Tue Jul 18 12:14:10 PDT 2000

UMMMM, DEBRA? Where is it?

Mary Tue Jul 18 12:11:08 PDT 2000

JESSICA: What do you write girlie? The first thing I did when I started was buy a Big case of first class mailers for submissions. Nothing like a big box of empty envelopes to motivate you(Yeah right). Then I found an online writer's group whom I proceeded to totally irritate and still can't fathom why they put up with me. Then I stocked my desk with writerly things to put me in the mindset, sat at my desk and stared at my PC for a while.

When it came right down to it...all I really needed was a few pieces of paper and a (fine tip black ball point) pen. I already had the desire. Heather's advice is priceless....JUST DO IT. Find something that means a great deal to you, and it will invariable mean a great deal to someone else. Write about it. Write poorly, write well, write funny or sad, but just sit down and write. You can always fix it later. Hope this helps. I would write more, but I don't think I need to--Good Luck. And Welcome!!!!

Mary Tue Jul 18 11:57:59 PDT 2000

VALERIE: Welcome! I had the same problem you do for quite a while, then one day I just decided not to sleep anymore. Just kidding. But my most productive time of day for writing really is after everyone else has gone to bed, the cat and dog curled up beside the fish tank and the dishwasher is banging away in the kitchen. Somedays go better than others, of course, and if I have a very prolific night I am pretty much a zombie the next day. It has been my experience that no matter when you want to write there is always a trade-off with something else. You just have to decide which thing has to go to make room for your writing. For me it was sleep. You will figure out what yours is. Good luck, it is nice to have you here.

Mary Tue Jul 18 11:49:15 PDT 2000

JERRY: Sorry to be a bother about it, but your email never came. If you have a copy of it in a sent folder somewhere, please send again, but no need to write it all over again-you have better things to do I'm sure. Thanks!!!!!!

Debra J. Palardy Tue Jul 18 09:46:57 PDT 2000

"Sweetie here's the best reason on the planet to say no to your boyfriend".

Hi, My name is Debra J. Palardy

I have written a guide for teenage girls. It is short and to the point. I just give the bare bone facts. Some of my sentances lead up to a thought but then I don't say it.
When these girls think it themselves it then becomes more powerful.

I talk about how girls are natural people pleasers and boys use this nature to get what they want. I go over some of the side affects of saying yes in your teenage years. I add blank lined pages in the back to write things that they heard that might not be in the book. It is my hope that those words will become suspect, as well.

I ask them to ask certain questions of older women in the hope that long conversations, that might never have been, will be the result.

I hope you will check it out.



Americo Tue Jul 18 09:36:07 PDT 2000


Hope your interview went to your satisfaction. The market and publicity department of the publisher asked for a list of names of people who would like to be informed of the publication of S*. Rachel and Allein and myself have already handed ours (to Rachel, who's in charge of all bureaucracies). No commitment to buy the book involved. We do not need that for S* to become a best-seller.

The deadline is July the 25th — minus the time for our excellent secretary to make and send the packet to the publisher. Did she tell you that the contract was already signed and that there is no return to this fascinating adventure of becoming rich&famous? So, instead of wasting time reading Jon's posts, sit at your computer and dedicate some gorgeous moments to elaborate your list. Call it: "People I want to become green in six months' time — at the latest."

I visited on Sunday one of the main editors (we call them "directors" here) of the most influential Portuguese weekly (around one million readers). I told him about S* and — well, he made me an offer to buy me a report on "Interactive writing, S* and the Chelsea Hotel, with photos and all". We'll probably have to meet in my favourite hotel in New York, after all. Reality always comes after fiction.

Heather Tue Jul 18 09:11:42 PDT 2000

Jessica - on getting started: all the inspired dreams of would-be authorhood will get nowhere unless you sit down (plant firmly) and just do it.

Ideas: write them down, all of them. No matter how stupid they may seem. The ideas that seem the dumbest sometimes turn out to be the best ones. Sometimes.

Equipment: You. Your imagination. Paper. Computer or typewriter or pen. Hours available for the craft. Water - to fend off dehydration during long hours at the screen.
Talent. This can be cultivated to some degree.
A dictionary and/or thesaurus. Deodorant - for all the sweat. Kleenex - for all the tears. Bandaids - for all the blood. If bandaids won't suffice, go for Kleenex. If Kleenex (tm) still won't do, try gauze. A stereo.

The Process: Write. Write more. Write a whole lot more. Edit/Re-write. Read. Re-read. Have someone else read it. Re-edit/Re-write. Read. Polish. Add a title, your name, your home address, the date, page numbers, double spacing, a copyright and Registration. Research publishers, Query, Submit. Pray.

This will take any number of months/years, so be prepared. Your children may have left for college before you are finished, and you are single now. Take heart. You are not alone. But the writer's life does get lonely. Hence, the stereo equipment.

Welcome, Valerie! Take some time away from your work and re-charge. That's the only thing I can think of, other than writing when everyone else is asleep. Works for me.

Good afternoon, everyone. Chapter 5 took a baby step.


Valerie Fausone Tue Jul 18 08:54:55 PDT 2000

I am new to this site and have found it helpful and informative. I have concentrated on articles and sold many nonfiction pieces. I work out of my home office and lately (2 small kids, 3 dogs and a husband) I am so frustrated that my writing time seems to fly out the window I can't think straight! (*^@$(@*$ where does the time go!! So, I ask for your advice about what to do... Your new friend, Valerie. P.S. I have a book pitch I managed to put out there and don't ask me how I managed that one!

Jerry A.G. Ericsson Tue Jul 18 07:20:59 PDT 2000

In my pockets? - I like to travel light, I carry a wallet with my necessaties, ie. drivers license, a few bucks, a credit card and my fishing license. Right pocket my keys, a comb, and a pocket knife. Left pocket my hay feaver inhaler. I hate pocket change, so empty my pockets of coin every night, if I have acquired any on that day. Left rear pocket I have my checkbook and a handkerchief.

Mary sent you a brief e-mail about .38's, hope this helps some.

Write on!

Jessica Tue Jul 18 00:33:01 PDT 2000

I haven't been writing for long, but I know that it is my passion, does any one have any advice to help me get started?

Arik Mon Jul 17 23:08:45 PDT 2000

Jon - I am a person who loves heat :-). I feel great with 30c and more :-). I hate cold

Rachel Mon Jul 17 20:10:25 PDT 2000

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! I have been having problems with my server for over a week. It has really begun to tick me off. ARGH!!! This is me frustrated.

Heather - I need your actual home address. Then I'll be glad to add you to the list (big smiles)!

Rachel Mon Jul 17 20:03:28 PDT 2000

Heather - I don't really carry a purse very often. In my pockets I'll have my bank card and Driver's Licence. I might have a sunblock lip blam along. I'll also have my keys. I have my house key, mail box key and car key. That is about it.

Heather Mon Jul 17 19:33:31 PDT 2000

Thanks to the odd weather patterns of late, we almost had a tornado touch down tonight in the south end of Guelph. While I was at work, no less. Imagine that, the roof torn from the building and all of the meek little employees sucked out and squashed! Except for me, because I'd be doomed to keep on working there, roof or sky overhead.

You guessed it, no word from the University yet.

Firing range. Hmmm. Sounds interesting. I could probably get to needing that type of information for my novel, but I don't think it wise to put a gun in my hands to get it.
Did I mention I'm a clutz?

SO: what does everyone carry around with them every day?

Here is the inventory of my purse:

Miniature tape measure
(never know if those little jeans will fit the kids)
pens and a small stub of a pencil; broken
Earl Grey tea in wrappers
wallet and photos of kids
and lots of plastic cards ranging from hospital and health cards to charge and debit. Ikea coupon for $10 off that I keep forgetting about every time I'm shopping there.
35.oo and change.
Fourteen slips of paper, bank slips most of those 14.
lipstick - 'mocha glaze' and 'burnt berry'
face powder
Nokia cell phone
nail clippers and file
three tampons
lip balm - butter cookie scented
hand cream
dinky car - green convertible
miniature bottle of contact solution
pad of note paper
three rolls of 120mm film, in a ziplock bag. 2 rolls are pro black and white, one is portrait pro colour life...

Oh, yes, did I mention that I carry a SMALL purse?
Really. If I carried any larger a purse, I'd be lugging a lot more stuff around. I could probably carry both children in there if I cram.
Not the sink, though. It's too heavy and I like it where it is.

For the guys, just give us the contents of your wallet or pockets!

(This is optional, but a lot like the desk inventory we did a while back for fun.)

You wouldn't want to know the inventory of my basement.


Mary Mon Jul 17 13:22:53 PDT 2000

HALLEE: prayers to your grandfather. my father in law was diagnosed with a benign brain tumor three years ago and sailed through the operation. he is back to his old self and spoiling his grand kids. have faith.

Mary Mon Jul 17 13:17:44 PDT 2000

thanks so much. I came to the realization that I cant really write (in very good elitist fashion) about something I have never experienced. so, my brother-in-law is taking me down to the police firing range Thursday. I was just wondering if you had any pointers for me, so I dont make an ass out of myself. How much of a kick can I expect, best way for a novice to hold the gun, details about the gun itself that might be helpful. Any piece of info that you feel I could use my first time out. My brother in law will teach me well (I'm sure) but I dont want to go in there totally ignorant. I really appreciate your help, Jerry. Thanks again.
Feel free to email me if you would rather do that than post it here.

Rachel Mon Jul 17 12:32:18 PDT 2000

Hi all - Above is my e-mail address.

The Littlest Monarch Mon Jul 17 11:54:41 PDT 2000

I wasn't my fault, exactly. My life was supposed to be simple, my love life was supposed to be simple. Right. That is why it has turned into a Shakespearian type drama, in which I have found myself caught. Words of wisdon from Lotty, "just give up and settle down with one of them." I'm to young to "settle down" nor do I want to. Thanks, Lotty. Merri, "god what are you thinking." Thanks, Mer. Will, "he's too old, MARRIED, has kids, many kids, near your age might I add. That one wear's makeup, and you'll wind up in prison if you follow him." Gee, thanks so much William, big help. Not that I believe any of this posting will assist any creative spark you may have, but it is squelching any I have at the moment. Three guys, me, and Shakespeare....sure why not, at least it'll end in tragity, everyone likes a good tragity.
The Littlest M.

Americo Mon Jul 17 11:41:19 PDT 2000

Christi, you dared call elitist snob to Jon? To the president of the biggest empire on earth? The cat who went to the moon and surfed on the Arctic and scuba dived under the North Pole and spitted on the ice, and danced with the penguins, and — according to rumours — ate the food made just for him by the smiling wife of an Inuit... You wait a moment, girl. Go on reading. Or jump to the end of this post and you'll see. (Suspense, a non-elitist device).

Now the post all the empire has been waiting for. But first, a word to Avatar.

Avatar — Do not be sad for living "in the attic" of the NB. It's the best place in the house.

(That was just the prologue. Now the big thing! )

Avatar —

You asked about "Shadows in a Dream" and "Strawberries and a Moon".

"Shadows" will be published in the USA sometime before the 7th June 2001. I'm sorry that you, like twenty plus other writers, could not make it till the end. The fact that so many people had to leave the project was a bit of a disappointment for me, and obliged me to write (and rewrite and rewrite again) a 300 page book with Rachel's, Allein's, Jack's and my own texts only. But all problems were solved after some months of enthusiastic (though sometimes rather lonely) work, and the novel will be a hit (let us have faith till we die, in other words, Amen).

I expect every notebooker, past, present and future, to buy at least one copy. No questions asked if they buy ten or twenty... The aim now is to make the book a great success in America first (first the ladies, I always tell...them), in the rest of the world next... Hope Jon, besides conquering empires, works miracles as well... and does not mind helping mere shadows of dreams make an empire of their own... I will have to buy some copies myself, as the stingy American publishers only offer 2 copies to a poor author. Here they are more generous and give 30... (The dots in this paragraph are for us to breathe from time to time. What emotions on a single day!)

Those of you wishing to be directly contacted by the publisher when S* come out, and have an autograph of such a divine entity, please send Rachel, our faithful and loyal secretary, your home address. (Dens and caves accepted). She's webbing an already long list of names and addresses for that purpose. No discounts for friends or students — this is business now, the art and craft was before. Anyone kidding here? Not me, no, Siree... (breathe again).

"Strawberries" did well as a public project. Some interesting stuff was posted there. I need to finish some urgent personal work before I read all the stories again and see what the real value of the collection is. That will take some time yet.

That's all I can say about "Strawberries" and "Shadows". I would appreciate if any questions about those sweaty things were asked privately, as I do not intend to speak about them any further on the notebook. Secret is still the soul of business and, to be frank, that's already past history to me. What I really need to enjoy now is the present and this Havana I'm writing with.

I wonder what kind of speech will Jon deliver next for our delight and meditation. I don't think he was quite happy about some reactions to his latest address to the Empire. But I know that he is a student of people's souls and minds rather than of their words. The poor guy has no memory. He recommended a book to me yesterday in the pub, between drinks and knife fights : "The Psychology of the Masses" by Sigismund Freud. I browsed it. Boring. No pictures...

Gary Sousa (or Souza) — YES! The Sousas discovered the lands, wrote the books and even had time to compose the musics. I would also choke like a school-girl if I heard "Stars and Stripes" thrown like stones of brass into the dancing ears of half a million people. Ah, John Philip Sousa, why didn't you compose some fados as well?

(I wonder if I'm becoming poetic like Heather's posts).

Christi — Pussy convinced Jon to maintain your position as MInister of Love Affairs. You deserve it. I'm trying to persuade him to let me be the MInister of Sports and Games till the next Euro Cup, in 2004, when Portugal will win. He's rather reluctant to accept, as he knows that I am a bit biased towards the Portuguese team, whereas he cheers for France. Pussy is all for England and the Commonwealth, in case you want to know all about the family.

PS. With all this talk of elitism, the fact is that everybody seems to be writing much better now.
And, Howard, give us a hug.

Christi Mon Jul 17 10:51:27 PDT 2000

You elitist snob! I suppose you're right to some degree about writers being elitists. Since you brought it up, I'd better cop to my one teeny tiny fault. (Yes, I only have one.) I can't STAND stupidity! Ignorant humans make no sense to me, and make me wish that I, too, were a cat. I find myself thinking the most unseemly thoughts when I'm around these idiots. They seem to be happy wallowing in their shallowness. I know that the saying says that ignorance is bliss, but what about the rest of us who have to live with these dummies?
There's a peice of my mind for you. Take it; I didn't need it anyway. :) Say hi to A* for me and give him a kiss.

Good luck on your interview! I sure hope you start feeling better soon. Summer colds are the pits.

Hi!!!! Do tell, do tell! What have you been up to?

Got jealousy? I do. (green green green) Even so, have a wonderful time at the retreat; I'm sure you deserve it.

I LOVE Star Trek! If you're getting in to science fiction, you should read Ender's Game after Teekay is done with it. It's so great to discover new things to read.

Awake yet?

I'm so sorry to hear about your grandfather. The symptoms of a brain tumor ARE amazingly similar to Alzheimer's, so it takes a while to get the proper diagnosis. I am glad that the tumor is operable and I'll pray for the best for your grandfather. We just went through the hardest period of our lives, watching my husband's mother go through the same thing, although her tumor was inoperable. Please feel free to email me anytime. I wish you and your family love and luck.

Look what happens when you're a smartass at the beginning of a post. Something happens to bring you back to earth.
Love to all, even the ignorant. I've had a few bouts of stupidity myself; some of which have been on this very page. Still . . .


Rachel Mon Jul 17 09:40:56 PDT 2000

Hallee - I send you hugs and positive energy.

Americo - Hugs and kisses!

Rhoda - I know what it is like to move house with four children. My thoughts will be with you. Hope you have some fun at it.

Heather - I know that feels like 4am feeling (smiles and a hug).

Rhoda Mon Jul 17 09:05:48 PDT 2000


Right now, I am almost finished with VULCAN'S FORGE. I got this one after I read VULCAN'S HEART. Both these books are by Josepha Sherman & Susan Shwartz. There is another pet peeve of mine blown out of the water, by the way, muliple authors. I found both these books well worth my money and fun reads. I also have read a couple of Peter David's books, IMZADI and IMZADI II. Those were not as good as the Sherman and Shwartz books, but they too were entertaining and well worth my time. A. C. Crispin was going to be the next, for after reading all these Spock books, I think I must read SAREK.

I get that same RWA newsletter, Hallee. There are many things about RWA I do like and I think their newsletter does a good job on keeping up with a large segment of the romance market, but like you I see a need for some major changes. Let's face it, most highly acclaimed romances are not what they used to be. There once was plot, character development and much less heavy breathing. Many of my friends and acquaintences have admitted that they have given up romance novels.

And Hallee,

I realize that any type of brain surgery carries a great risk, even for heathy and strong people. I will be praying for you and your grandfather, and for your husband who, incidently, is a real jewel. Your three year old is in good hands, and that will be a tremendous comfort for you throughout the next several days.


I appreciate your confidence in my work.

I must go now. I will see you folks in another few days.


Jerry A.G. Ericsson Mon Jul 17 08:47:39 PDT 2000

Mary - Fire away, I have had many, many .38 SPCL revolvers, even had a S&W Semi-auto (Fired .38 SPCL wad cutters) Modle 52 target pistol for awile, just for the fun of it. I am not busy, just haven't felt I had anything to contribute lately. I haven't written anything for over a month now, must be the heat, summer is depressing when you can't get out and enjoy it as much as you used to.


Heather Mon Jul 17 07:34:07 PDT 2000

Rhoda - I'm not surprised that you feel fed up with the romance genre (for reading). Nothing in this world would get me reading those kind of books unless YOU GOT YOURS PUBLISHED! That is because I know yours is not a conventional romance novel, with a windswept couple grasping each other on the hillside for a cover.


Heather Mon Jul 17 07:27:36 PDT 2000

Good Morning!

Hallee, blessings are with you, your grandfather, and your husband and wee one at home. I hope things turn out for the best.

Jack, best of luck for feeling well enough to go to the interview, and best of luck at the interview itself!

Well, well. 9 a.m. indeed! Feels more like 4 am, here. And the kids are up and perky, as usual. I am semi-conscious. Feeling a bit better, though, thank you for all the well wishes.


Hallee Mon Jul 17 01:52:33 PDT 2000

Morning everyone.

RHODA: Good luck! And...Which Star Trek books are you reading. I know that Ann Crispin or A.C. Crispin, who is the Vice President of the Science Fiction Writers of America and frequents a chat room that I've been in wrote 4 or 5 of them, and she's, as far as I know, really good. Also, I thought that it was just me, writing romances and maybe getting burnt out on them too much to read them or enjoy reading them, until I received my issue of the Romance Writers of America newsletter. Apparently, it's a common concensous (sp?) that there needs to be a major overhaul in the romance market. And I could take this and probably go on for hours, so I'll just leave it at that. :)

AMERICO: It seems like the person would be at the computer while the information would be on or in the computer. BUT, I am so frequently wrong. By the way, hugs and kisses...happy writing.

TINA: Have a great time!

HEATHER: I hope you feel better. :(

JACK: I hope you feel better, too, and if you do, good luck on the interview.

And now, I must leave the editing (yuck) and writing alone for a while. I'm off to Oregon. Apparently, my grandfather did not have Parkinsins or Alzheimers. Rather, he has a brain tumor that is being removed this week. He is so weak and frail, that we have been told to expect the worst, so my wonderful husband and I scraped every corner we know of to get me from Florida to there. (By the way - think of him with the 3-year old for a week as much as my poor grandpa.)

Happy Monday all...have a great week since I can't be back to check. :)


Americo Mon Jul 17 01:08:53 PDT 2000

On the computer or at the computer?

I have my prepositions all muddled. Sorry.

Americo Mon Jul 17 01:07:39 PDT 2000

Good morning, everybody!

It's only 9 o'clock and I am already on the computer. 9 a.m. is pretty early for me, as I like to go to bed very late (3 am, more or less). When I can afford doing that of course.

WB, Eddie. Did you come to stay or just to say hello?

Good luck for the interview, Jack.

I have great news to announce on this Parliament. But I do not know how you'll react. Well, we'll see later on if I get courage to announce that. Stay tuned.

And why am I on the computer? Because I'm writing a great book. It's not fiction. It's just academic essayism. It's called "Os Maias and England — Looking for the Ideal Man". The book is based on a chapter of a longer book (400 pages, a little longer perhaps) already finished but, in my expert opinion, rather borish. I am fed up of the longer book and became enthusiastic about the shorter book, the one that made me wake up so early and give extra food to my parakeet. So I'm feeling quite creative.

Please send me hugs and kisses.

Hugs and kisses to you all.

Jack Beslanwitch Sun Jul 16 23:15:14 PDT 2000

Let me second the motion. Good luck Rhoda.

As for health, yuuuuuck. Bad cold. Hoping to recover enough to do the interview tomorrow. This is hoping. But we will see.

Take care everyone. Cough. Cough. Cough. Well, you get the idea.

Mary Sun Jul 16 21:03:23 PDT 2000


Rhoda Sun Jul 16 19:11:28 PDT 2000

I am busily getting ready for my househunting trip tomorrow. Here it is the night before and I have not even packed.

Welcome back, Eddie!!! I missed you too.

Best of luck on your job interview, Jack. I hope you are feeling better and are reasonably rested from your trip.


Just how cold does winter get down there? Frank and I were looking at a map of Austrailia today. As Mr. Spock would say, "Fascinating." Such a big country and most people live in the southeast corner.

Speaking of Mr. Spock, I have been reading Star Trek fiction. Shame on me. So many writers consider this type of fiction the lowest of the low. The horrible, embarrassing truth is that the last two I have read have been more entertaining and have made better reading than most of the romance novels I have read. Perhaps I am going through some sort of transformation, but I do not like romance at all lately. My tastes have been shifting elsewhere.

Well, I got to run.

Happy writing!


Heather Sun Jul 16 18:44:14 PDT 2000

Sorry - Eddie - I forgot to say that it is terrific to hear from you! Let us know all of your recent adventures.

Howard, where are you?


Heather Sun Jul 16 18:42:53 PDT 2000

Sorry, forward or backward flips aren't my style any more.
That was highschool.

Pardon me for including in the 'elitist test' a question of rather poor taste (and smell).
I thought we'd broken all of the taboo chains here.

Have a great time Tina - and remember - it's for relaxing, not bouncing off walls! :o)----<

Must go and recharge my energy. Coming down with the flu or something equally grotesque.
Sorry to hear you have a summer cold, Jack. Glad to hear you had such a blast in Hawaii!

Jon, trumpet away.


Mary Sun Jul 16 18:22:20 PDT 2000

JERRY: If you arent too busy, i have a couple questions about firing a .38 -can you help me?

Tina Sun Jul 16 17:33:29 PDT 2000

Hello all and nice to meet you Eddie!

Do you know what time it is? It's HOLIDAY time! Yaahoo! I'm off for six days of complete relaxation and creativity at an artists retreat. I'm soooo excited I'm just bouncing off the walls. A warm mountain lake, an old victorian home with an extensive garden, hiking, massage, and lots of writing! My muse has been patient and now will be rewarded. I leave tomorrow and I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!!! (Sorry to shout but I can't help myself.)

Time to go get ready. Have a great week!


Tina Sun Jul 16 16:54:16 PDT 2000

Eddie French Sun Jul 16 16:34:33 PDT 2000


Just got back so I must get some sleep just now.
What a hectic couple of months.
Tell you all about it soon
Hi all of you good GOOD friends!
Missed you all!
Goodnight for now.

Jack Beslanwitch Sun Jul 16 16:27:47 PDT 2000

Hello everyone: Sorry that I came down with a rather bad summer cold on my way back from Hawaii. So, I let me archiving of the Notebook slip my mind. I suspect the quiet here had equal measures of sunny weather and the fact that the Notebook had bloated to gargantuan size. It would have been better if I had gotten to the archive before I left, but time really got crunched just before our departure.

Still, we had a wonderful time. The turtles were great. The manta rays were awe inspiring. And the lava caverns make me want to jump on the plane and head back to today.

Instead I will be hopefully doing a job interview this week. So wish me luck.

By the way, for those who are counting. The final size of the Notebook I archived was around 400k. Again, apologies all around and will not let that happen again. Crossed fingers. Cross toes. Well, hopefully.

Jon Sun Jul 16 14:04:05 PDT 2000


Shall I make a speech to the Empire in order to wake people?

But if I wake people will people not start protesting for my attempt at wakening them?

Arik, isn't it too hot to be born in July? I'm thinking of passing a law to the effect that all notebookerse must be born on the last week of December. That saves on happy birthdays and presents. Well, happy birthday.

And what are you waiting to give your prizes?

Here are my prizes:

Best post: Avatar asking if it is possible to be super elitist. The answer is — yes, and the way things go, it's the only way to be a decent writer. But do not worry too much about the originality of your stories. As Howard said, there are no new stories. Of course he forgot to say that, precisely because there is nothing new on the earth (not true, but we must be generous), stories must be told differently. Genius resides in the difference. Your story may be the same told by a Greek bard many centuries ago, but it will only be good if you give it your style. If that is elitism, be elitist, and the more elitist the better. Do not let words frighten you. To read the non-elitists has converted me to elitism. And Howard is condemned to read this 3 times (aloud) before going on holidays without paying the drinks.

Worst post (ever): Litter on elitism. He did not know what he was speaking about, confounded snobbery with perfectionism, called the latter elitism, mixed up all kinds of things, finished by telling Avatar that she was confounding the two things (and she was too...) and went home without paying the drinks. He must do ten backflips and read the interview of V. S. Naipaul on the latest issue of Tattler Magazine — and comment it here in this Parliament.

Funniest post with reservations: Heather with her test on elitism (excepting the second group of questions — which is bad taste for many reason and also because it tries to be funny). Three backflips.

All interesting comments to this post will be answered by my slave Americo, but he will not answer them if they are not interesting or if he is too sleepy or hungry or thirsty or angry.

Heather Sun Jul 16 10:55:36 PDT 2000

It's sunday and no one has added a post since yesterday.

Who is the Littlest Monarch, and does he/she realize the redundancy of his/her first sentence?

Or the fact that no one else here knows what he/she is talking about...

Well, (trumpets and penny whistles clamoring) I have finished chapter 4. FINALLY. Now to do some editing. I had spared myself from the tasek of it for a while and it shows. *sigh*


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