Archived Message from
July 28, 2000 to August 19, 2000

Gariess Sat Aug 19 21:41:30 PDT 2000


There is nothing anyone has to do. I haven't changed. I am quick to anger when I see someone spreading vitriol in a place I like. Americo is very long and boring on protest but short and weak on owning up. I wish he would just apologize and shut up instead of trying to convince us that ugly is a compliment in his Portuguese/English dictionary. However, I will not mention it again and just move on. You know, I really have to take a look at that picture of Litter.


I disagree that we can police the NB by laying down rules. If people choose to practice deceptions begause they get some juvenile kick out fooling people, I would just as soon ignore them. Codes and passwords won't stop them if their own sense of unworthiness doesn't. To react with a bunker mentality will only serve to feed their twisted notion of power. They are like the people who call the police station from pay phones and tell the cops they are a bunch of pigs.
So, it costs a little space in the forum but I would just consider it a small price to pay for the freedom we enjoy here, especially since we can't stop them, anyway. besides, I don't think Jack would go for it. Jack made the WB a password area a couple of years ago, and I don't recall there ever being a problem associated with the WB.


Debra J. Palardy Sat Aug 19 21:14:09 PDT 2000


Now, just how cute are you?

You don't sound old to me.

Even if you are getting up there in age, the fact that you still love to write warms my heart.

I am what is called a late bloomer. I always knew I got joy from the written word and writing. I just didn't realize how much joy until I started doing it.

I have spent some time worrying about the years I lost not actually doing it.

When I hear about older people still writing I think that I might have enought time left to get it all out.



Robi Sat Aug 19 20:47:20 PDT 2000

Hello Notebook,
I'm sorry I'm writing so late, I just got back from upstate, I hate funerals. This is the third one this year for people I graduated college with. Seems the class of 1917, (I told you I was very very old :),) is dropping like flies. Too bad, 'great minds of the generation.'
Jerry, thank you for telling me the snow fences name, I needed their title for a peice of my short story collection. I'm very bad with names and such, so I owe you a big thank you.
Christi, I love that quote. :)

Everyone else, I have no idea about this whole thing. (I try to pay attention, but in my senileness I'm having difficulties.) I'm sure that whatever this is will be resolved. I really like this notebook, and it's members. That's all I want to say about it.
I'm in a stressful point in my life, I tell you that not to get sympothy, but just to let you know in case I seem a bit, 'normal'. Could be this whole death thing, I don't know. I'm old, I'm tired. I need to write.
Good night,
dream well, so you can have something to wake up for,
your crazy ranting and raving woman,


Mark one more once Sat Aug 19 20:32:00 PDT 2000

Use <b> to start bold and </b> to stop it.

mark Sat Aug 19 20:28:33 PDT 2000

TINA and HALLEE -- nope, the stuff in angle brackets disappeared in that last post. The explanation is there, but the examples fell right out and became HTML tags. email me.

mark Sat Aug 19 20:25:07 PDT 2000

CHRISTI -- It was just one short story in a book of short stories, but it was memorable. A man and his family travel west, much like the Joads of "Grapes of Wrath;" they seek a better place to live. For reasons even they don't know, they take a turn onto a road which runs through a rich wheat field. [Of course] they happen upon an abandoned farm house which is ready for anyone to use. A couple days of rest in this fertile land and they realize they will need to begin working to keep the larder stocked. The man finds a scythe and begins reaping wheat as it ripens. Each day new sections of the farm have wheat ready to harvest. Incredible. No farm ever had such a day-by-day harvest.

One day the man notices that the wheat has more to it than daily ripening, each stalk has a personality. When he hits it with his scythe, it dies. He is the Grim Reaper. There are complications when he sees the stalks which represent his family and he refuses to mow them down. The family members lose their zest for life but go on joylessly anyway. He finally gives in.

TINA and HALLEE -- HTML tags are a start and stop affair. I can [start bold]at one point and end it by using [stop bold] at the other end. Same with italics. The point I really want to emphasize is make sure you give the stop signal.

"" is start and "" is stop.

The simple thing here is that "B" is Bold and "I" is Italic. the letter becomes an HTML tag by enclosing it in angle brackets {the greaterthan and lessthan symbols, above the comma and period on your keyboard} Simply enclose the initial to start bold or italic and enclose a slash-initial; that's "/" , to stop bold or italic. Always stop it. Thus
"Mark's Stuff"
comes out as Mark's Stuff.

I don't know if all the symbols I want to show you are going to come out in the NB. Won't know until I post them. If it doesn't work then email me and I'll send a return mail with examples you can look at and try out.
Debra J. Palardy Sat Aug 19 20:13:58 PDT 2000


It was your post just under the one in which I said that. You were so kind with Yahel when you asked him to stop with the philosophy for a while.

It was so diplomatic of you.

That's why I said it.


Christi Sat Aug 19 19:33:21 PDT 2000

Hi Rosemary and Mary!
I missed your posts while composing mine.

Our posts are somewhat similar, aren't they? ;) I loved what you said about the Notebook being family. I feel that way, as well. Hugs to you.

Americo Sat Aug 19 19:21:54 PDT 2000


So you want to crucify Jon and me. That would not be the first time in history. But two at the same time? And why?

I ignore if the word "ugly", which my well-known character Jon used in connection to Litter, jokingly and not expecting to offend, has in the English-speaking world any connotation which my dictionaries do not register and which I never saw in any book. I can tell you that the thing is quite inocuous here, if addressed to men, mainly in a friendly way, as I think it was the case. I am absolutely astonished with the fuss that has been made about such a trifle. If in your various parts of the world the word "ugly" is an ugly word please say so — presenting phylological reasons and trustful examples — and I'll see what I can do to appease your indignation. I must say, however, that I do not intend to apologize for the complexes and madnesses of other people. I am not a psychiatrist.

Even NOT discounting the obvious good humour of the context the word was used in — though that could be legitimally expected from writers, from intellectuals, from people who know how to read, as you all are and do — "ugly" cannot be compared to the words Gariess has used in connection to my character Jon and myself: "stupid", "arrogant" and "cowardly". He has also made physical threats. No words of reproach to him? How unjust!

And Rhoda has written that I said "horrible things" to Litter.

Rhoda, I have serious reservations about your character, as I told you more than once and explained why. Nothing to do with ideas, but with acts and facts. You remember them. I'll not go back to that. However, it never occurred to me that you could be an unjust person. I don't want to think that you are. No, you are not. And you are going to prove it. Please specify here, publicly, with quotations and inverted commas, "the horrible things" I said to Litter. You cannot refuse me that, can you? A basic demand for truth.

This is too ridiculous to be true. But I must inform those concerned that death threats are very serious crimes. Annonymity is very easily uncovered, mainly if the culprit(s) have had the brilliant idea of using e-mail, as they (also) have this afternoon. I keep a good file in my e-mail application. Bones of a hard, dangerous job, as we say here. By the way, no word of reproach to those death threats? How unjust! how ridiculous!

Gariess probably thinks he is a hero. And he must be a hero, considering how the fire was rekindled by the injuries and threats of his post. Post by Gariess, who also tries to use humour. Better leave him to his pious belief and to his own conscience though. The poor guy is also a Sousa and mercy has always been a virtue.

Other people are new to the NB and do not know that Jon is the only entity here that was called several times to stay — the only democratically chosen notebooker, the only with the full assent of our webmaster. But Rhoda and Howard, who know him and me for so long! This must be a funny dream, not reality.

Jack, I'm having problems loading the NB. These people cannot be left without an answer. That would not be nice. Please read the posts of yesterday and today and tell me if their indignation is in proportion with the "offense". I am sure you are a just man. I will be very disappointed if you are not. And what shall with do to those death threats and to those who instigated them and shut up when they should speak? We really have very serious case here. Portuguese writer threatened of death! Intersting publicity, actually.

I don't believe everyone went mad just because Jon decided to conquer Hell. This must be some sort of infernal complot to preserve the mythical place. Okay, he will not conquer it. The place seems to be much cherished here to disappear. Unless you people are playing the roles he asked you to play. Describing Well and Levite. Is that what you have been doing? In that case, a heartly laugh. You are people of genius! I had almost forgot the program.

Jack, if you have better things to do and cannot analyse this interesting case of collective and incomprehensible hysteria, at least clean the page so that I can answer the most interesting posts. Quite a good exercise actually. After all, my confessed aim when I came here was to practice English.

Christi Sat Aug 19 19:21:26 PDT 2000

Hey all!

I think you were referring to "On a Pale Horse" by Piers Anthony when you spoke of the books where the author becomes the Grim Reaper. It's the beginning book in an awesome series!

By the way, if you get your stirrups from a western store I'm pretty sure that the only creature you're allowed to do a pelvic exam on is a cow. If that's your idea of fun, well okay. Kind of messy though. Hee hee!

Hmmm. What do you mean, when do I go into politics? Do I seem dishonest to you?
Maybe I should run for Pres. It's about time we had a woman in the White House.

Okay everybody, I'm pretty sure that Americo was only joking around. Everyone knows that Litter is an exceptionally attractive human being (I'm pretty sure that I have commented on this in the past). I think it's strange that everyone would get so up-in-arms about this, rather than some of the other things Jon has pulled in the past.
The thing is, I love the freedom here. I myself have never chosen an alter-ego, and choose to post under my real name, but I have no problem with those who do pick alters. I love Sasquatch, Jon, Pussy, Jade, and all the others who have used their imaginations so freely. Looks are the last thing that matters here. What truely matters is good writing, good ideas, and enjoying each other. Anyhow, that's my two cents. Two cents doesn't buy what it used to, does it?

Are you truely offended, or are we blowing this all out of proportion? Please speak to us!

And in closing, I'll quote John Lennon.
"All ya need is love
All ya need is love
All ya need is love, love
Love is all you need. (Love and a little common sense. That part's mine.)

Love to you all,


Debra J. Palardy Sat Aug 19 18:37:56 PDT 2000

Thank you Mary:

I appreciate that very much. I really do.

Have a nice Saturday Night


mary Sat Aug 19 18:29:21 PDT 2000

Debra: I know that you didnt ask me directly, and my best advice would be for you to check the rules for each contest, but in my experience, the title is not included in the word count. I have never seen an instance where it WAS included.

And Jerry, they are called snow-fences here as well (in Ohio).

Plunk Plunk: (my 2 cents)
I have never minded people (anyone) posting as more than one identity, I only ask that they all try to be kind. Even though not everything posted here is directly about writing, it does promote a sort of comeraderie between all of us that is valuable. I am a member of another on-line critique group that is 'all-business' and they have been a wonderful source of information--but I do not feel close to a single member there. The Notebook is family. I learned this very early on.

Mark: I personally feel that you are a valuable addition and asset to this family, and I hope that you do not decide to look elsewhere. I understand your frustration, and the idea about a sign-in is a good one, but frankly I would feel like I was knocking on the door of my own house, instead of being able to walk right in. I wonder if the end would justify the means.

Jon: Admittedly..your last post was the closest thing to an apology I have ever seen from you. Maybe you are stepping towards civilization after all. It takes more than a love of dry wine and Inuit cooks to claim refinement. I hope we haven't lost Litter over this last bout of disrespect. (or anyone else for that matter)

Teekay, Rhoda, Howard, Hallee, Heather, Tina, Jerry, Christi, Allein, Gary(winks), and everyone else here: Hello, and I hope all is well with ya. :-)

Rosemary Sat Aug 19 18:22:48 PDT 2000

Hello most of you,
I'll admit I had to hunt back quite a ways to find out what Jon/Americo had done this time. It turned out to be one of Jon's gibberish posts that I always skip. I'll also admit that I skipped most of those psychological posts. I'm sure they were interesting to the ones submitting them but they didn't make much sense to me.

Litter: Don't be upset, that's what Jon was trying to achieve. He mentioned it had gotten dull here while he was gone. This is always his way of correcting that.

I know I have been posting more lately, (I'm home more now.)but, until Jack has more time for archiveing (sp?) shouldn't we be a little more careful of the space. This is the first time I've had trouble loading this site in the approx. five years I have lurked here.

What happened to your dog? The one hit by the car? Was taken to the hospital, then???

Think calm thoughts,

Jerry Ericsson Sat Aug 19 16:43:41 PDT 2000

Debra, not sure on the name thing.

Robi - where I come from those fences are called snow fences, but I guess it may be a local name, as we use it to stop the snow from gathering on the highways on these wide open plains.


Rhoda Sat Aug 19 16:31:18 PDT 2000

I really do not know just how to post today. It is not often I read the Notebook and feel totally speechless.

Having a few times been the victem of some very scathing postings by Jon and Americo, I understand exactly how Litter and Howard feel. I also know that in those instances, Litter was the first person who came to my defense, and I feel ashamed that much of the ugliness that has past here has gone a bit over my head, and that I have waited until now to speak up.

After reading through the posts again, I must concur with Gary in that what Americo said to Litter was horrible. When Americo lashed out at me, he seemed to have a reason, fundamental differences of opinion, and some might argue he felt somewhat provoked. Litter has never said anything to anyone here that has ever been unkind or provocative. He has spoken his mind, but has always exercised the best of tact and kindness when dealing with anyone.

If this Notebook loses Litter and some of the other kindly people who have habitually posted here, then as far as I am concerned, the Notebook loses a vital piece of its soul. The Internet is full of ugliness, and the Notebook has experienced its share at times, but we have always managed to work through it. Sometimes we have settled our differences and have been able to kiss and make up. I think this last instance will not be so easily patched up.


I do not know what has been in your mind as you have posted the things you have. I only wonder if you would dare say most the things you post if Litter and the rest of us were in a room with you and you had to speak to us face to face.


Mark Sat Aug 19 16:25:03 PDT 2000

Part of the trouble with the americojonpussy issue is the rambling waste of internet space caused by allowing one person to enter messages under different names and hold "conversations between each other." I believe we have another member doing the same thing, passing messages back and forth between different personnae, both of whom share the same chair. I've seen some pretty sloppy notes here, and some rather common mistakes get made regularly. But it's noteworthy when two supposedly differently people misuse the word "excepted" in exactly the same way.

This free-form forum has had its glory days, but I'm ready to join Litter on some other venue if some measure isn't taken to deter juvenile hijinks.

We could ask Jack to make the Notebook a place where

It would also eliminate the accidental note that comes in with no name attached. The benefits would also include reduced masturbation here; i.e., less activity from those who prefer to be active with themselves.

On the down side is the simple annoyance of having to sign in.
Debra J. Palardy Sat Aug 19 15:46:47 PDT 2000


I'm very proud of you. What happened to all the nice conversations that everyone was having? I miss that. Is there anything that we can do?


sasquatch Sat Aug 19 15:34:28 PDT 2000

i sasquatch am ashamed of my knowing the jon creature and i do not wish to be associate with it any more. we are made to honor humans persons not to hurt them. Litter person i sasquatch wish also you to remain in this place. i will speak no more to this jon creature. i must go.

Vena Sat Aug 19 14:45:00 PDT 2000

Why fear death?
Death is nothing.
Dying does not bring hell
nor heaven. Death does not hurt.
So why fear death?
Death is nothing.

Why live?
Life never brings peace.
Life is full of pain
and pleasure. Never rest.
So why live?
Life never brings peace.

Why trust god?
God is a father for the old.
God can do nothing good
or bad. God can not save.
So why trust god?
God is a father for the old.

Gariess Sat Aug 19 14:28:27 PDT 2000

Listen up, Americo/Jon,

I don't appreciate your nasty insults to anyone in this NB any more than the others who have raised objection, here.

Calling someone ugly is stupid, arrogant and cowardly. And I don't mind a damn bit letting you know. If you want to play cute pussy-cat, come into my back yard and I will be happy to tie a string of firecrackers your furry little ass.


mary notdotpleased Sat Aug 19 11:40:38 PDT 2000

Litter...please dont will break this girls heart...

sits up in the rafters glaring down at Sour-Puss-In-Boots.

Heather: if i dont see ya before you go...have a blast! :-)

Jon Sat Aug 19 10:55:14 PDT 2000

Hey, annonymous and/or angelfire (or both). Stop that nonsense of sending me death threats, if you don't want me to send you to... well, you know where.

Why are some people so afraid that I conquer Well? My intention was just to make of Hell a holy place for spending summer holidays, with gardens, swimming-pools, pretty faces around. A good idea, I suppose. You people are being very ungrateful. But, okay, I'll conquer it some other time.

Litter, don't go away. You have the prettiest face I have (never) seen. Next to Howard's but, frankly, not so pretty as Rhoda's.

Hope you people love me again now. I did my best to please my people. I'm sure I was quite successful this time.

PS. Tonight is love-letter writing to me. Howard, you first, immediatelly followed by Rhoda. Make your letters really passionate. Hot, hellish letters! All of them starting:
Dear Jon,
as you managed to do the impossible, stop the cheap philosophysing on the notebook....... etc.

Debra J. Palardy Sat Aug 19 09:05:31 PDT 2000


I did it. 2004 words. The four wods are the title. I think that you put them in the part where the personal information goes. I will have to check, unless you know?

Even still, if I have to take our four more words I can do that too.

Let me know about the words in the title if you know. If you don't know don't worry. I will go back and read the rules again.

Debra J. Palardy

Debra J. Palardy Sat Aug 19 08:56:35 PDT 2000

This is in response to those death threats, I'M TELLING!

Jack! Jaaaaaack, she yells disappearing out of sight.

anonymous Sat Aug 19 08:13:17 PDT 2000

Ok. Try this link.

anonymous Sat Aug 19 08:07:48 PDT 2000

dammit! Just check the link.

anonymous Sat Aug 19 08:02:36 PDT 2000

ammmmmmm, sorry. Here is the death threat.

anonymous Sat Aug 19 07:58:10 PDT 2000

Jon - This is a death threat.

Robi Sat Aug 19 07:31:55 PDT 2000

Morning all! And a very good one to those of you who are waking up earlier than usual to do something awful, (like me, I have to go to a funeral in upstate.)

I had this dream many years back about 'Well'. This was when I was, *cough*doingdrugs*cough*, so it may have been some odd fever dream, but I'll tell you about it anyway.
I was walking in my high school cheerleading uniform, (gold and blue) down these ruins of rock, like of on a ledge, they were almost like the ruins in Athens of the old buildings there. And I was following the school marching band. My skin was all dirty and it was so hot, I can't discibe how my entire body felt like it was melting.
I got to the bottom of this rock, ledge thing and there was a doorway made out of peices of rock, and at the top on a peice of drift wood was the word 'Rapture' carved into it. Then a big wind came and I grabbed onto the rock door frame to keep from being blown away and some giant, booming voice said the word 'Rapture' in an errie whisper almost.
I published that story back in the late sixties, I don't remember all of what I wrote. That was a long time ago, but I may have a copy of that somewhere in this mess. I'll look for it.
So, on your quest for 'Well', remember that anything you don't like is "A crime against the crown." After all it's your empire, so whatever you want can be "a crime against the crown."

Does anyone know if there is a name for those beach fences, you know the one that are thin peices of wood tied together with mental ties, they're all along the beach, and i know that there's a name for them, but I can't remember what it is. So, HELP!

Anyway, off to the funeral.

Your crazy ranting and raving woman,


Yahel Sat Aug 19 06:41:27 PDT 2000

Mark – The second poem was totally my own. It was written as a response, but all the ideas in it were my own.

Christi – You want to talk about balloons? Sure… I once executed a clown. :)

Jon and Americo – The Czar and Resputin, you should take heed to insults you give, they may hurt no matter what your intentions were.

Tina – The “Foundation Trilogy” is excellent. As for short stories, have you read “Legal Rites”?

Litter – I once saw a cat running after a big dog. Don’t be silly, don’t be chased out by a cat. :-)

All – Due to public request the philosophy section is officially out of order. I shall have to convince my plants they don’t exist…

Jon/Americo Sat Aug 19 06:27:23 PDT 2000

I did not make any attempt to justify anything. What are you talking about? Litter's ugliness? Your own ugliness? Oh, dear, oh, dear... Are you being jealous of Rhoda's pretty sunglasses? Oh, Howard, what a disappointment!

Pinky and the Brain,
Will you please conquer Well for me? Seems to be too much trouble at this time of the year.

PS. I will not tolerate this time any gang on attitude. But you can gang on if you wish. Try. I like mince meat.

Pinky and The Brain Sat Aug 19 01:36:18 PDT 2000

Jon – Cease any hell conquering activity at once. You are meddling with our own plan. If you dare disregard this warning this notebook is not fit to describe what we will do to you. Don’t try us! We don’t like cats!

Allein Fri Aug 18 23:42:34 PDT 2000

Tina - Peach whipped cream goodie! Sound delicious! I love peaches too. Any chance you could send me the recepie? *licks lips*

Tina Fri Aug 18 22:54:06 PDT 2000

Mark, how'd you do the italics? I'm not HTML literate. My attempt just failed miserably.


Tina Fri Aug 18 22:51:30 PDT 2000


So 'Foundation Trilogy' is the Asimov to read? Thanks for the tip. I've only read his short stories, never anything long, and thought I should start with the best. I'll have to visit the library.

Litter, ignore the feline and please stay! Insults are the weapons of insecurity, and not worth your notice. Hard to stomach, but do try.

It's peach season! Yay! Canned peaches, dried peaches, peach jam, peach leather, fresh peaches, peach cobbler, peach pie...... (I sound like Bubba on Forest Gump. ) Of course, the only way to eat those scrumptious things is to MAKE them. Therefore, I must go and prepare the most decadent peach desert of them all..... Peach Whipped Cream Goodie. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


Heather Fri Aug 18 22:45:49 PDT 2000

Litter, here is a lovely little joke (please, don't go and leave. You're loved here!)

Q: What kind of bees make milk?

A: Boo-bees.

I'm smiling so hard my cheeks hurt.

I might pop in here tomorrow for a farewell post before my excursion to the wilds. I'll probably be too madly packing and mowing my lawn, though.
I am taking paper and pen with me (and the rest of the house). The computer stays here, however. I might actually catch up on some sleep, and poetry! And photography. I've got another wedding to photograph in a few weeks.
...and when I get back I hope Litter will be posting!
And Jon, rolled up newspapers are not enough.
Just imagine bondage kitty. Imagine me the Dom.
(Yes, that's right, I must go shopping...!)


Sun, be kind to the places where wrinkles will be. Moon, be gentle on the places you pull, and on the places you caress.
Lake, be smooth as plate glass and let me float under the brilliance of a night-full of stars, until I don't know which way is the sky. Sand, be warm and cradling, and let your ever-changing roam find still solace under my feet.

a Good night to all, and may inspiration cling.


Rhoda Fri Aug 18 20:46:34 PDT 2000


Americo has never seen your web-site, obviously. I saw it a couple of times and thought your appearance very pleasing.

Speaking of which, I appreciate the compliments that Americo has given me. Any woman worth her salt likes to be complimented for her looks, but if I remember that picture correctly, it was taken in late November. I am wearing a heavy jacket and sunglasses. It is hard to determine how I really look from that picture. Also my three children are in the picture with me.


Please do not leave. You are a wonderful voice of humor, intelligence and sanity, and I would miss you greatly. I also would miss your poetry.


Mark Fri Aug 18 20:26:28 PDT 2000

Hmm. Name calling. Ahh, phooey. When did I last do that? Probably yesterday. I do tend to get caught up in the "pigeonhole" mentality. Any stereotyping or pigeonhole action is a kind of name calling. Still. . . To call someone ugly. Ya need to be face to face and ready to smile. Hard to see a smile in the persona of Jon, whose single personality facet is plain arrogance. Aw, jeez. Here we go. Now is that name calling? I find myself wanting to differentiate between Jon's "ugly" statement and my "arrogant" statement by noting that my statement was simple journalistic description. Aw, hell, . . .

Jerry Ericsson Fri Aug 18 20:04:46 PDT 2000

Litter - stick around, I have seen your photo, in the Bio's I think it was, and have no problem with your appearance. I do enjoy your posts very much, as well as the stories you have posted.

Guess I overlooked your post when I was reading earlier, or I would have said something earlier. We have lost way to much talant here in the past year. Please don't let it happen again.


Allein Fri Aug 18 20:01:49 PDT 2000

Jon - Hell is like high school. Toiling and slaving away for what - a damn piece of paper! I would marry Levile but I'm already cyber-married to Americo, remember? And I don't approve of what you said to Litter! Bad kitty! ::swats Jon with rolled up newspaper::

Hey all - We might get a puppy! After years of begging and pleading, my parents are seriously considering it. :D

Allein Fri Aug 18 19:01:16 PDT 2000

Litter - Please don't leave us. I still like you. I've never seen a picture of you, so I can't comment on your physical appearence, but you are a wonderful, beautiful person on the inside. I'm proud to call you my friend.
*hugs and smiles*

howard Fri Aug 18 18:55:16 PDT 2000

MARK -- Besides "Foundation" Asimov wrote "I Robot" -- a collection of connected short stories based on human-robotic interaction. They were excellent, and have also been published (with additional stories) in a volume called "The Complete Robot." He also wrote a science series, and "Asimov's Guide to the Bible" (from an atheist perspective).

AMERICO/JON -- I believe you owe our friend Litter an apology. That was not a nice thing to say at all, and I'm not surprised that he's upset. I didn't appreciate your remark either, nor your lame attempt at justifying it.

TEEKAY -- What did you think of "Midworld?"


Jon Packing to conquer Fri Aug 18 17:31:53 PDT 2000

FAQ and answers:

Litter: Don't get mad, this is just one of my routine Summer expeditions to exotic places. Please collaborate: send photo. Or describe Mark in html.

Jerry: Westy and One Who? They look like Don Quijote and Sancho Panza. Not my idea of Levite. Levite must look like a smiling A*. Thanks for the collaboration.

Jessica: Well like S. Antonio Texas? Perhaps. I always thought of Well as something like Texas. I'll probably visit Texas after conquering Well. That must be fun, mainly now that Rhoda moved to a safer place.

Christi: knowing the sense of humour of some Christians (no pun intended), prepare yourself to establish peace and love in this empire here. You'll be my queen in transit.

PS. Everybody must contribute to this story. In the end, we can philosophise a little, but only for a day or two.

PPS. Who wants to come with me in this heroic expedition? I need someone to carry my luggage.

Debra J. Palardy Fri Aug 18 16:13:34 PDT 2000


As I suspected!


Jerry Ericsson Fri Aug 18 15:37:36 PDT 2000

Debra - I don't have such a sweater, or for that matter any femininity, or at least not the last time I checked.


Rosemary Fri Aug 18 15:35:07 PDT 2000

Hello all,

You live in San Antonio? Me too. Except for emergencies, I have been staying in out of the heat. No rain and high humidity makes for heavy molds. My allergies are having fits.

Do you belong to any of the local writing groups? Tomorrow morning is the meeting of Alamo Writers Unlimited. Your post said you were going out of town so that one is out but it is held on the third saturday of each month.

The first few visits are free for decision making. After that the dues are only $21 per year. We have a speaker each meeting and recently we have started to set aside every third (or fourth?) meeting for critque secessions.

Hope you consider it.

Jerry Ericsson Fri Aug 18 15:31:16 PDT 2000


I visited Well many many years ago. If my mind serves me, it was from August 1970 till October 1971.

To the best of my recollection, the weather there was extremely hot, temperatures ranging from a cool day at 95 degrees F. to the hot days around 125 degrees F. The humidity was horrid, and the human body could not cool itself by simply perspiring, as it does in most other locations.

The deity in charge was named, if memory serves me was Westy, or something like that, and he had an evil twin who ruled Upper Well, who was called in English, One Who Enlightens, or some such drivel. Now Westy was not married, but he did have several concubines, most of them from the narrow streets of Well’s Capitol City. Singsong, was the name, I think, or some such name, I have never been real good with city names.

Now Westy was a rather tall figure with chiseled facial features. He was rather thin, and had just the slightest amount or brown hair. One Who was a short thin fellow with a long beard. His features were those of an elderly oriental. One Who also was single, but was served with concubines from the capitol city of Upper Well. If memory serves me the name of that City was Honey or some such name.

Conquering this world seems almost impossible. Many have tried in the past; there were the Chinese who first attempted it, then the Japanese, followed by the French then the Americans. Seems the minions of Well have defended their world with great guile and vigor. Any attempt at such invasion should be reviewed under this light.

It is my understanding that Westy has been overthrown by One Who, and One Who was replaced by another figure head, his name alludes me at this time.

I wish you the best of luck in your attempt to overthrow this underworld, and may the Gods have mercy on your soul. (Cats do have souls don’t they?)

Your humble servant

Jessica Fri Aug 18 14:27:40 PDT 2000

Jon: WELL is like San Antoino Texas in the summer, over 100 degrees with 98% humidity.

I'm leaving for the weekend, so nobody do anything too strange, though strange things are expected of you. ;)

Have a great weekend!

Debra J. Palardy Fri Aug 18 14:20:11 PDT 2000


I wouldn't worry too much. Of course, if you have a wool sweater that accentuates the your femininity to perfection, you might want to keep this story under wraps.

There is nothing worse than the muffled sound of wool clunking on a kitchen floor.

Ask me!


Mark Fri Aug 18 14:06:37 PDT 2000

TINA -- Asimov? Foundation Trilogy. Also, I believe there was a book of short stories by him. One short was about a guy who found himself in the role of grim reaper. That was Asimov? right?

HALLEE -- You got the prize for observation skills. I've been doing that for a while, you're the first to notice, or the first to ask, anyway. I discovered it by accident. I wanted to put in a pair of asides, one I put in standard parentheses, the other in angle brackets. When I posted the note, the stuff in angle brackets disappeared. AHA. This thing accepts HTML. If you are comfortable with it, and conscientious, then you can add html bold and italic tags around the appropriate text. However, if you miss an end tag, then the bold (or italic) continues down through the rest of the notebook. It simply cascades to the end.
One other thing I have done that I expected a group of writers to notice: id est

JACK -- Now that the cat's out of the bag, there is a neat utility which will strip html tags out of text before accepting it for publication.

CHRISTI -- I'm with you, kid. This is a place for writing topics.

YAHEL -- never acheived an A with me because you never wrote your own original piece. Each poem you presented was merely a distillation of previous thinkers' works. Alexander Pope and Isaac Newton both said something to the effect of "If I see farther than others, it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants." I do not begrudge you your apparent youth nor the wrestling match you have with classic questions. That's how Newton and Pope became such great thinkers. I wonder about their appropriateness in this venue. Tell us who YOU are and how YOU feel. I'll find that more interesting than a recitation of how Heisenberg came to be uncertain. (Besides, Keirkegaardian existentialism hasn't been brought up). {grin}

CHRISTI -- pelvic exams? What city are you in? I can get stirrups, but they'll be from the western store.
Litter URGENT (NOT) Fri Aug 18 14:01:06 PDT 2000

OK people,

That does it for me. No problem with real live people but lots with those hiding behind the fictitious rantings of roadkill. OK Amerigo, you finally got to me. Thanks a bunch.


Jerry Ericsson Fri Aug 18 12:59:03 PDT 2000

Debra - thank you for the story about the sweater, I will show it to my wife the next time she complains that I don't do the laundry. (Just kidding, I wouldn't show it to her, might give her ideas!)


Jon URGENT Fri Aug 18 12:23:43 PDT 2000

Dear notebookers,

I decided to conquer Hell (from now on called "Well"). Please support me in the most daring of my adventures so far. How? I don't know . As writers, you are people with imagination. So tell me how I can dethrone the old Devil (from now on called "Levile") and use that beautiful space, so rich in energetic resources, for good purposes. I intend to become the Prince of Lightness (the present designation "darkness" is obviously wrong) and spread this empire (your empire, my empire) over a vast part of the universe which I have not visited yet — the world of evil, hereon called "Jonwelt". I'll reward the prettiest women in the notebook with good seats by my throne. And the most helpful men with good seats not far from the pub.

I'd appreciate if, to start your help, you'd answer the following questions I've been turning on in my mind ever since I took this decision:

*How do you imagine Well? Like California in Summer, or not so bad?

*Please give me a fair description of Levile, so that I don't confound him with somebody else I may encounter on my journey. Does he look like Arik or rather like Howard? And how do Howard and Arik look like? Is anyone of these as ugly as Litter?

*Is Levile married? If not, who in this notebook could make a good wife for him? Allein, Rhoda, Teekay, Avatar? And why? (Don't forget that Levile will soon be me, Levile the Prince of Lightness).

*I intend to make of Well the prettiest and healthiest and holliest and funniest place in the universe —the intention is to compete with the other kingdom, the one which I cannot conquer yet for lack of experience with the transcendental. I want it peopled with the best and the goodest, instead of the worst and the baddest, as, I'm sorry to say, it has been peopled so far. Is there a place on earth which you can recommend as a model for Jonwelt? New York City, perhaps? Australia? Israel? Notice that my next adventure will probably be to pacify Israel and Palestine and become the boss there, but that's too difficult for me at my present stage of development.

All comments and suggestions welcomed. Thanks in advance for your support.

Debra J. Palardy Fri Aug 18 11:58:36 PDT 2000

Before anyone feels bad for my husband, I will let you in on some of his shanagins. He does know better.

He bought me a wool sweater that I fell in love with at the store. This was a few years ago. He got it for me at Christmas. I was so happy I wore it that day to my mother's house that day.

Sometime the next day he got it off a chair and washed it for me. It was 100% wool.

I didn't think anything about not seeing it on the chair. I actually didn't even realize it was gone. When I went to the dryer later that day, I pulled it out and didn't even recognize it at first.

It wouldn't fit a Barbie Doll. It was so small and compact that it made a clunking sound when I brought it to him in the kitchen and threw it on the floor.

That's a true story!


Debra j. Palardy Fri Aug 18 11:35:40 PDT 2000

Fri Aug 18 11:35:09 PDT 2000

200 words, I'm having trouble processing that information.

I will go over every sentence. Then I will cut it's head off; that should do it.

NO I hope you win!

I saved the long version. Maybe after the contest I could post it in the notebook.

Right now I have to call my husband at work. He shrunk, yet another pair of pants, that I have worn only once. I was in the house when he through then in the dryer too. He's gonna get it. My behind didn't look like it needed to be trimmed for a writing contest in these. Now I'm going to use them to dust.

Where is the key for ten pound tears.


Jerry Ericsson Fri Aug 18 11:26:55 PDT 2000

Debra, yes there have been stories that I have had to trim. I know it hurts sometimes, but you may be surprised, sometimes it makes the story even better. Someone once told me that you should search the story, and find every word that does not make the plot stronger, or the description better then eliminate those words. I have entered the Alfred Hitchcock Magazine photo story several times there you are limited to under 200 words, makes for very pointed writing.

Good luck, hope you win.


Deber J. Palardy Fri Aug 18 11:18:28 PDT 2000


I wrote my story. It is 2944 words. I can't seem to trim it down. I'm going to go try again. It seems like some sort of damage to property.

Does that make sense?

It's painful. How do you do it? Do you do it?


Fri Aug 18 08:38:49 PDT 2000

did you realize that everyone in this notebook except for you is a creation of my own imaganation

Robi Fri Aug 18 08:19:44 PDT 2000

I'm home. I tried reading some of the posts, but there are so many, so if anyone asked me a question or mentioned me and I didn't get a chance to read it I'm sorry.
Emily Jane looks a bit better, at least she seemed a bit more normal once we got to the B & B and she was able to relax. She lost 37 pounds, but i kept feeding her when ever I got a chance, so perhaps she'll gain a bit of it back. But she's so small, I'm very worried.

Debra, Emily Jane and I are not of any blood relation. But I am the only mother she's ever had, and in some ways we are closer than most biological mothers and daughters. I did speak to a doctor about her, but he seems to think that it's not something physical that's hurting her, it's something more mental. Thank you for your concern.

To everyone else, I hope a very good day and some very good writing a wait you.

The crazy ranting and raving woman,


P.S. Any new members, (are there new members?) a HUGE, WARM WELCOME to the Notebook. I hope your stay here is enjoyable. Please ask me to help you in any way I can.

Debra J. Palardy Fri Aug 18 06:49:55 PDT 2000


Of course I understood your post, don't be ridiculous.

Yes, I liked your post. You addressed me personally.

What's not to like?


Jon Fri Aug 18 06:31:02 PDT 2000

Rhoda: would you like to be my friend? Starting... NOW! What a pretty face (and body) you have!
The past does not exist.

2nd part:

Here's my contribution for the "philosophical debate".

1 present+1 future=much love.

(Okay, Pussy, I wrote it as you demanded. May I go now? And hide your knife, please.)

Arik: what do you mean by soccer? Does Italy play soccer? Thought they only play billiards...

Americo Fri Aug 18 06:19:38 PDT 2000


I've received "The Pillars of the Earth " only today. I'll have a look at it, sign it and buy me a copy so I can read it slowly. The book will be returned

(The paperback is too used by now to go on roundrobining).

Thanks very much.

PS. There is one thing I will not return: Rhoda's photo. (Unless she sends me a copy...) Wow! What a beautiful woman!

Fri Aug 18 04:28:20 PDT 2000


RHODA: Congratulations on finding a house!

Allein: And congrats to you, too. :)

Heather: Have a great time.

Mark: How do you get the bold and italics into the notebook?

Arik: Leave me out of the prizes. I always end up having the dumbest or the silliest remarks.

Mary: I'm the one who said I was serializing on themestream. I looked up your link, and it looks really good. I'm going to delve deeper and really research this company. If anyone is interested, let me know.

Tina: The name is really familiar, but I couldn't name anything he's written.

And now, I must get ready for work. Have a great Friday, all. I have one neice coming in town tomorrow morning and another who has her third birthday tomorrow afternoon. In between the two, I have to make a Barbie cake for the party. This weekend is turning out to be as busy as the last. Those door prizes I won are looking better and better.


Tina Thu Aug 17 23:47:13 PDT 2000

Here's a non-philosophy question for other science fiction lovers. What is your favourite Isaac Asimov story?


Arik Thu Aug 17 22:42:23 PDT 2000

Jon - I'll give the prisez from today. ok? You don't like phylosophy? I dont know why people hate it so much... I think it is nice... yea, nice will be a good word. What is going on with Americo? Is h still mad on me about the soccer game? By the way. Have you considered beeing a god? and if you cant do it, then an angel?

Jerry,Christi - I agree. There is no place for phylosphy in this forum! no just kidding. It is nice to have phylosphy here... as long it won't be TOO much phylosophy.

Debra - The question is did you understand the post? Did you liked it?

Tina Thu Aug 17 20:55:46 PDT 2000

Whoops! Still new to this chat thing. I went in for a bit, then remembered.... oh! I need to go water my flowers! Then I remembered... oh! I need to go buy a sprinkler! So I did. Got home and then remembered... oh! I started a chat and didn't stick around! So I checked it and low and behold people came to talk and I wasn't there! I feel like a first class goof. Okay, a third class goof but I'm trying to pep myself up a bit. Hello chatters! And Claire, I would happily talk if I could remember to remember! Don't lurk, come out and play!
Next time I'll behave better.... (bad Tina, BAD Tina, go sit in the corner!):-(

I now have three virtually uninterupted hours in which to write, so that is what I go to do.


Teekay Thu Aug 17 20:36:24 PDT 2000

Hi All,
I know, I know, I said I wouldn't stay away so long next time, but I just seem inundated with stuff that HAS to be done (yesterday).

MARY: You always , okay, usually have something of value to say, and I like reading it anyway.

JERRY: Thankyou, how sweet. I appreciate it. I still haven't commented on your story because I still haven't read it. I know, for shame.

RHODA: I still haven't read your chapters either. *gulp*. (Does CHRISTI's falling to the ground and groveling for forgivness thingee.)
And no, I have not gone on vacation alas, but I'm finding it really hard to get to the computer. My subconcious is probably compelling me to stay away because of the guilt it feels re: your chapters and my writing (or lack of.)

CHRISTI: Your post made me chase all around the notebook to see what funnies I'd missed with GARIESS and DEBRA. I eventually gave up, but I ended up laughing anyway. I think it was hysteria.

Okay, I am now going shopping. Good fun shopping, not drudgery shopping and so kisses to all and hello to all, there are too many of you to name.

Good vacations to all who are going on them also.

Rhoda Thu Aug 17 20:16:28 PDT 2000

I have it! So this is what is going on. Americo is having a beach party in Portugal or somewhere in the south of France and has invited Rachel, Teekay, and Jon. Perhaps Heather is invited too. She has told us she will vacation in Canada only to spare the rest of us the pain of being left out.

What a beautiful picture in my mind of these folks having so much fun. Of course the rest of us were not invited, for this is a very exclusive party (sigh). Who would waste their time with philosophy and the mundane rigors of writing when one can have such a wonderful time. I can see it now. Americo has spread out a large towel. There is a plate full of sandwiches and a bottle of champaign. Rachel of course abstains from the champaign due to her condition, but Teekay and Heather inbibe quite freely. Jon is curled up on the edge watching the bikini clad girls out of the corner of a half-shut eye.

The azure water lovingly laps the shoreline, and the bright summer sun beams down upon them. All the while they discuss modern literature and their newest projects.

I think we should have our own little party here on the Notebook. We can make the others jealous, and perhaps they might return. Anyway, I hope they will return.

Good night and sweet dreams, all, espacially Howard. If you dream at all, may your dreams be pleasant.


Rhoda Thu Aug 17 19:55:46 PDT 2000

Et tu, Teekay?

You have not left also along with Americo, Rachel and soon to be Heather when she goes on vacation?

Tina Thu Aug 17 19:03:52 PDT 2000

In the Chat room! I'll stick around for awhile but I might be slow noticing if anyone comes by. Be patient.

Debra J. Palardy Thu Aug 17 19:00:55 PDT 2000

So Christi:

When are you going into politics?

Christi Thu Aug 17 18:57:27 PDT 2000

Bless you, you sweet thing. Finally something I can be interested in. How exciting; an explosion and your gas pedal crapping out! Sounds like a movie.

I really like you, and I think you're very funny and smart. HOWEVER . . . this is a site where we talk about writing and whatever craziness is happening in our lives. I don't mind a discussion about philosophy, but I don't believe I want to be inundated with it. I am not interested in philosophy in the slightest at this point in my life. Can we talk about writing, balloons, pelvic exams, peanut butter, or just about anything other than philosophy for a while? Pleeeeeeeeeeease?
I really do think you're great, and would never want you to leave. I'd just like to see what the NEXT topic will be. NEXT!!!!

Good luck, Allein!!!

Congrats, Rhoda!

Americo, Americo, where art thou, Americo? And where's the lovely Teekay? *sniff* I miss you guys.

Love to all.


Debra J. Palardy Thu Aug 17 18:56:19 PDT 2000

Oh my gosh.

I left this afternoon. I came home to my writersnotebook to find all the furniture gone and just the tlelphone hanging off the wall.

Did you guys move out?

Jon On imperial holidays Thu Aug 17 11:18:28 PDT 2000

Arik: yes, give your prizes again. This new generation of notebookers sounds very boring with their pseudo philosophy or whatever they call it. And some of them don't even know that I am the emperor, though on imperial holidays. Americo has given up the notebook, and so will I, if they don't change topic. Yawn, and yawn, and yawn.

Heather: nice time for a holiday — you are a clever girl.

Allein: you have a job? Oh, dear, oh, dear.

Debra J. Palardy Thu Aug 17 11:14:39 PDT 2000


Wooow, look at all those pretty lights, she bluprd as she swirled around towards the ground.

Okay, like what was the question again?


Jerry Ericsson Thu Aug 17 09:02:26 PDT 2000

Allien - my daughter worked in such a place when she was attending college and found it very rewarding. I will give you wonderful insight for your writing too. Best of luck to you in your new job, and take it easy on the new boy friend.

Tina Thu Aug 17 08:16:27 PDT 2000


Allein, I'm so excited for you. We can never anticipate what changes life might bring our way, but you're right on the edge of it ALL. Enjoy!

Heather, I back up constantly on my hard drive, and save my work on seperate disks which I store seperately from my computer. I also have a copy stored out of my home, and I periodically update them but not as often. I almost never print something out when I make small changes. It is printed out, but it's too big and uses too much paper and ink to update it constantly. I should print the new work and major changes, I just never get to it.
Have a great vacation! Ten days! Careful for the poison ivy. ;-)

Congratulations Rhoda!

Getting frustrated by my lack or writing time. Between work, summer commitments and chores I've barely had an hour to write in the last week.
Summer is curving around to the last straight stretch, and I want time to stop. But at the same time, I always have more time to do my own thing in the fall and winter, so I'm looking forward to that. It's all so illogical....


Jerry Ericsson Thu Aug 17 07:56:52 PDT 2000

yachting - what a wonderful vacation. I have had that problem from time to time, where my tongue gets over my eye teeth, and I can't see what I am saying. Embarasing isn't it. Hope you have a wonderful vacation. I am so happy that someone was watching over you and saved you from being injured in that explosion. I am sure that you will find lots to write about on vacation, I know I always do. I am anxiously awaiting your return to read all about it.

Arik - I understand exactly how you feel. All this talk of philosophy has my mind bent to an unusual degree also.

Mary - Thanks for the link, I will have to check that one out.

Rhoda - I hope you love your new home, and that you have as wonderful neighbors as I do. Neighbors can make all the difference when moving.

Mark - Thanks for the Chat.

Yahel - I am confused, 1 + 1 = 0? The dish ran away with the shoe? All that glitters is not diamonds? Furry squiggly things in my head?

Thu Aug 17 07:54:26 PDT 2000

Rhoda Thu Aug 17 07:35:10 PDT 2000


I am so glad you joined us here at the Notebook. Discussion has gotten much more interesting. I agree with you wholeheartedly on mathematical logic. In mathematics, logic is everything. Same thing with physical science. Science differs in the fact that you have to keep adjusting your model to fit reality. Newtonian mechanics explains most thing, but there are places it breaks down and you have to go to quantum mechanics. But still, there is an order and system by which the universe works.

BUT in affairs of the heart, that is another matter. Logic in the mathematical sense does not always apply. Still, I will admit that most of us lack logic. The world would be a much better place if people acted more logically. We could do logical things such as treat others as we would like to be treated. I think the golden rule the most logical of all commands concerning people. Also logical is to consider that everything we do, every decision we make carries consequences good and bad, and that we should LOGICALLY weigh these consequences before doing things. God is the ultimate logical being and the ultimate emotional being, and the ultimate just being. Is not justice the ultimate logic of all human affairs? But should not justice be tempered with mercy? Ah, that is a hard one. Are paradoxes logical? Life is full of them.


Have a wonderful vacation. Reading your post I thought lovingly back to the times I saw my relatives up in Michigan and we tramped the woods of the upper pennisula around Lake Superior. Once, we found and picked wild raspberries, took them home and ate them. They were so delicious and a most unexpected treat. I hope you work out your problems with your car. Mine just ate a transmission awhile back and stayed in the shop for three weeks. Now it is fixed.

I back my work up every fifteen minutes or so while I am writing. After a writing session I record it on two floppies. I always use two because sometimes floppies go bad, and then there is no hope of recovering the file. It is always a good idea to back up your files on other parts of your hard drive. I don't do this, but I should.

I usually wait awhile to print stuff out, and then I do so two or three chapters at a time. You get a better perspective of what you have written when you have waited a little and when you see it in relation to other parts of the text. Printing as you go, I would think, saps time and paper. But everyone is different, and if it works for you, then don't change it.

I must go. Perhaps I might buy a new refrigerator today. I was told yesterday by the repairman that the compressor is bad and would take $475 to fix. I can get a new one for not much more than that. When it rains, it pours. My husband accidently broke our back window while cutting weeds. Then there is the refrigerator. Then there was that automobile transmission, but so far nothing we can't fix, so I suppose I must be content.

Happy writing,


Arik Thu Aug 17 07:13:23 PDT 2000

Debra - Here is my answer.

The dog ate the cat. Then the egg told you you are nice. did you know that a barbique is a very tasty food? How did the sky became red? and at last: asdjh sfadfue wqoirwr nbxcmnxb!!

What did you think about my answer?

and Moo is the god!

Arik Thu Aug 17 06:54:27 PDT 2000

Mary - Hey. How are you? Are you still a minister or jon fired you?

Allein - Hey to you. congrats! I am very happy for you.

Yahel - There are a lot of things that I can and you won't be able to proove to me that they are not true. I think that the philosophy is a since of these things, so maybe you'll explane to me what is the diferance between believing in god and believing in phylosophy. Both try to understand the way the world works, and yet both you can not proof. Why don't you call phylosophy a religion?

Debra J. Palardy Thu Aug 17 06:51:30 PDT 2000


I always get scared when I do something new. Some of the greast actors still get stage fright. When you feel that kind of fear it just means you have a life.

Not a bad trade off, huh?


Debra J. Palardy Thu Aug 17 06:49:22 PDT 2000


I believe. What else do we need?


mary Thu Aug 17 06:10:58 PDT 2000

HEATHER: that last post sounds like i think you couldnt get published by a traditional publisher, which of course, isnt what i meant at all. i just remember you saying something about themestreaming one of your novels and thought this might be an alternative you might consider...smiles you.

mary Thu Aug 17 06:08:44 PDT 2000

hey, the link works.....and its worth a look-see..hint hint Heather...:-)

usually when something seems too good to be true, it guys draw your own conclusions.

mary got this on another workshop site..smiles Thu Aug 17 06:00:02 PDT 2000

This came across my email and I thought that some of you might have an interest
in this..... it is from 399

I am writing to introduce our paperback and hardcover novel publishing
company. We pay advances, and our royalty structure is much higher then the
current industry standard. Could you visit our website at
and see if we can interest you in any way?

I dont know if it will work, but i will put a link for the address here...good luck..havent even been there yet myself.

Allein Thu Aug 17 06:00:02 PDT 2000

Hi everyone,
This is a strange feeling for me. Two weeks ago I didn't have a job, a plan for college or a boyfriend. Now I have all three. The boyfriend isn't official yet, but he did meet my mom and she liked him, so he's...let's see...maybe future boyfriend?
I already told you about getting into college but three days ago I got a job as well. It's for a tennant support services. I work with mentally and physically disabled people helping them around the house - cooking, cleaning, helping them dress and bathe, and being their friend (which may be what they need most in the world).
It's really weird - I so happy but really scared at the same time. I start training today (which is why I'm up so early).
I will end this with some lyrics from a song (those of you with young children may have heard this before) that kind of describes how I feel.

"Heart don't fail me now!
Courage don't desert me,
Don't turn back,
Now that we're here.
People always say,
Life is full of choices,
No one ever mentions fear!
Or how the world can seem so vast,
On a the past!

Somewhere down this road,
I know someone's waiting,
Years of dreams just can't be wrong!
Arms will open wide,
I'll be safe and wanted,
Finally home where I belong,
Well, starting now, I'm learning fast,
On this the past!

One step at a time,
One hope then another,
Who knows where this road may go.
Back to who I was,
On to find my future,
Things my heart still needs to know.
Yes, let this be a sign!
Let this road be mine!
Let it lead me to my past,
And bring me last!"

So, I'm actually going into the future, not the past, but you get the idea of how I feel. By the way, these lyrics are copyrighted 1997 20th Century Fox Film Corporation.
Anyway, I'm off to my destiny.

mary Thu Aug 17 05:54:44 PDT 2000

Arik: hi sweetie.

Arik Thu Aug 17 05:10:14 PDT 2000

Debra - but now you did. You believe there is no conection between the 2? Yahe'l phylosophy's... you can not proof they are not true... the question is if you believe in thm or not!

Jon - The prisez... I didn't gave them for a long time... do you think I should start again?

Yahel Thu Aug 17 04:29:53 PDT 2000

Litter and Heather – You misunderstood what I meant by “Logic”. I didn’t mean things like the world is round or anything else discovered by science. I meant things like “If A leads to B and B leads to C then A leads to C”. That kind of logic is absolute. Logic isn’t relative, and has nothing to do with philosophy. Knowledge changes, Logic stays. I think I am familiar with 1=0 proof, but it used an addition like the following: 1+2+4+8+16… and that is mathematically illegal because the numbers don’t add up to a whole number.

“Just breaking -- Yahel said "mary - You are giving a different definition for addition! 1+1 is never 1, unless you decide '1' represents zero" … Uhm, Yahel, 0+0=0, at least it does in my philosophy.” So what? That’s what I said. What is the problem?

Heather Thu Aug 17 00:34:17 PDT 2000

P.P.P.S. Post post post script. Ah, too many posts.

I forgot to say thank you to Litter, who expanded on my previous counterpoint (in response to Yahel). The one about Logic.
I said that logic was just today's agreed-upon fiction.
Or something such another or some.

In any rate, and at any case,
I haven't seen the last of me.

Neither have I.

1 added to one is 1one.
one one.

that's neon, for all of you non-logical people.
For the logical, that's gobbledigook.

Yahel, could you write us a quick novelette, entitled 'Logic for the Illogical'(tm)?
How about 'Possibilities for the Impossible'?
Or how about 'Oxy-morons for the Latter'...
Now I'm carrying myself away.

Wait... I guess I don't need any logic. I already have none.
I mean, no, one.SOME!
ONe ONE ONE eno eno eno.
that's seventy two and three score twenty.

Fortnight and q2h (every two hours)
and a lot of flaccid arms.

Please nevermind me, it looks as if I'm incoherent even at 3 am. *shrug*

Heather (again) zzzz

Heather Thu Aug 17 00:21:46 PDT 2000

Congrats on finding your new home, Rhoda!

Did I miss out on any other hellos?
I think I forgot to say hello in the first place.



Heather Thu Aug 17 00:17:47 PDT 2000

Rhoda - in response to your comment that you have a tendency to garble your words - so do I. When I am talking in person with someone, that is. I could whip off Shakespearean verse at the drop of a beret, but when in the company of others (besides my husband and kids) I trip over my tongue at the worst possible moments. Not always, mind you, but over the past few weeks, I have even picked up a strange stutter that plagues me at odd times.
I think I'll just blame that on lack of decent sleep. Coherent and loving it at 3 am. Not so coherent at 3 pm.

I am going on vacation for one blissful run of ten days, so I will be vacating these premises for a short while. What wonders might I trip over, I ask? Let's hope it's not my own tongue when I get home.
There are wild, unpopulated beaches and miles of preserved forests where we are headed. I just might trip over Sasquatch, writing on his Pentium laptop under the scrub pines. I will certainly paint his portrait if I do.
And add a few of the pines, for good group-of-seven measure.

I will be photographing some of the beauty with my medium format Mamiya C220 while I'm there. Gariess, if only I had a scanner. I will have to check and see if 120mm film can be developed and made into a CDrom; that way I can share the photos with everyone sans scanneur.

I was planning to shell out the moderate bones for a scanner back in January, but things decided I didn't need one. Like my car. She felt it was good timing to act like a dead fish. She's been re-creating that dead-fish ploy every few months. Last week my gas pedal actually broke while I was driving 60 km. The cable that attaches to the back of the pedal snapped, leaving my pedal hanging as if it were a flaccid you-know-what. ARM. That's right. A flaccid arm.
So, luckily I was coming up to a red light. On the green I idled around the corner, to find a perfect parking spot out of the main stream of traffic - a paved shoulder in front of a coffee shop! Funny - because if I'd not broken the pedal of my car that evening, I would have been on my way to my new job. Guess what happened just across the field from the building? And right when I had planned to be pulling into the parking lot. The chemical plant across the way exploded. Tons of fire and ash and noxious pool chemicals flew through the air. I drive with my windows down since my dead-fish car's air conditioning slipped down the crapper.
So, there is a perfect example of well, hmmm. Fate?
Circumstance? Coincidence?
I don't know, but whatever it was, I wasn't meant to be driving by at the time the factory blew. It was even on the National news.

Anyhow, that was last week. This week has had it's share of interesting news items.
But I won't bore you all to the brink.
I did get some writing done, finally.
Yahhhhooooooo! This ms is getting very thick in my warm hands.

Oh, before I sign off, I have a Q:

For all of you writing novels...
Do you save your novel on an assortment of disks and on your 'desktop' and in your 'briefcase' (computer) and then print it out every time you change a few sentences?
I'm beginning to think I'm obsessed.
Obsessed with having a trillion copies just in case of... the unspeakable.

I know it's wise to save it and print it on several medium, but am I taking it a little far?
Let's see - at last count I have seven disks, four files in the harddrive, and twelve copies on paper just of the most recent chapter. You don't want to know how many copies I've got of the first few chapters, in all corners of the house. But especially overflowing my filing cabinet. I don't have room for another single piece of paper in there.


Rhoda Wed Aug 16 21:27:28 PDT 2000


Sorry I missed you in the chat room. I checked, but was too late.

WE FOUND A HOUSE!!! In Owasso, just a few miles north of Tulsa. We should be moved in my mid October. Soon we shall be Okies!


Debra J. Palardy Wed Aug 16 19:39:30 PDT 2000


There almost wasn't a connection between your post and the fact that I will answer it. I almost didn't.

Now I did.



Debra J. Palardy Wed Aug 16 19:08:53 PDT 2000


How sweet of you! Actually I meant that the world is still a place where people are hurting each other. The only time anyone hurts me in my house is when they step on my foot.

I only wear a size five because I am not very tall but I have a small house. That's the only way I ever get hurt in my home by my family members. I do admit that I don't like it much.

I can assusre you the people whom need spankings are at different addresses so many you might need an assistant. Will you be offering a benefit package with that job?


In Chat Room Wed Aug 16 18:47:15 PDT 2000


Wed Aug 16 18:26:27 PDT 2000

Debra -- It is the post in which you said (Tuesday I think)

"But if that were true than why did I create a world in which I live is a tiny tea cup house with four kids, two dogs and a husband? I clean all day and it's still getting messy again. What was I thinking when I created this world in which I really live alone? If that were true, than I am the slob. So that can't be true.

If I am in fact the only one here, although, I might not create a world in which I am the center of attention I definately would not have one where there are so many people hurting each other.

So there has to be someone here with me."

With me now???


Debra J. Palardy Wed Aug 16 17:37:23 PDT 2000


Would it be too much trouble to tell me again about the exact post in which you are referring. I'm sure I'd but up for the spanking, but I just want you to refresh my mind.


Hallee Wed Aug 16 16:27:11 PDT 2000

Hi everyone. I had a wonderful post all written in response to reading the website Jerry put out. As I was writing, I thought to myself, this is too good to risk typing it directly into the text area..I should be using the word pad and then cutting and pasting. Then, someone entered my office, I got involved in a long conversation, and the next thing I knew, my internet connection had been interrupted due to inactivity. So proves my point. Obviously, I am not the one who is in charge of my world...sigh...haha.

I won't try to replicate what I wrote. I had a teacher in high school who was a WWII fanatic, and we did much studying on the hollocaust, which I'm certain is spelled wrong, so I knew many details about it. I will say that in the beginning of the site, I was disappointed with it, thinking that it was disjointed and jumbled. But then I got into the flow of the way it was done, and it was a much easier read. But, as I think Yahel said, it didn't horrify me. It saddens me considerably, but the knowledge of the tradgedies was already there.

My grandfather, the one who just died, was in Patton's Midnight Warriors (that may not be the exact name - I'm going from total memory of years ago). Their duty in WWII was to stay behind enemy lines and basically annoy the Germans. I.e., blow up bridges, disable roads and vehicles, and generally be a nusance. Because of this, they were actually in Germany when the war ended and were part of the groups who liberated the concentration camps. He was so horrified by it that he couldn't even watch Michael Jackson's "Thriller" video. The monsters in the video reminded him of being the first person through the gates of one of the camps. That has to be horrifying.

JERRY: That story about Clinton was hillarious. hahahaha I'll have to tell that to someone sometime. And thanks for the muse. I hope I can do with it what you do with it. :)

I'm serializing one of my novels on Themestream. I don't know why. Just to do it, I guess. If I can figure out how to do it correctly, I'll put the link on this post for anyone who might be interested in it.

Okay, and now I have a sink full of dishes because I made a big dinner. Have a great night all.


Rhoda Wed Aug 16 16:05:52 PDT 2000


I agree with you on Notebook format versus chat, but I do love chat. If anyone wishes to arrange a chat I am game. But it is incredibly hard to hook up with folks here because of all the different time zones.

I think the greatest thing about the Notebook is the practice of expressing all types of thoughts in writing. If I were talking, I would have the tendency to garble my words. On the other hand, someone presents a post and if I misread it the first time around I can go back and check it and see where I went wrong. In conversation it is so easy to not properly hear what someone is saying and to get the wrong idea.


Litter Wed Aug 16 15:53:18 PDT 2000

Hi Again,

Yesterday I cut and pasted wrong and a bit got missed… !D'uh!) !!!!!!!! and a few extra.

Debra & Christi - thanks for the comments :o)

Debra again -- We should find this person who is polluting your world and give him/her a good spanking! (And maybe you could stand on a box or something?)

Hi Rowhad. Glad the dreams have stopped. I get many of my 'good' ideas from dreams but I also get many that cause me to waken (so I can write them down) and then wonder why I bothered when I see them the following morning.

Logic is an absolute… Hmm, interesting proposition. Logic itself dictates that it can never be more than a function of philosophy and only ever relative to the knowledge and perceptions of the time. That is to say, logic in mediaeval times was different to logic today, relying more on superstition and religion than the wealth of scientific knowledge now available. (But most scientific knowledge today is still empirical and can only be proved by experience at first hand…) Logic, my friend, is a philosophy, or rather a branch of philosophy. How can logic be absolute when knowledge changes day to day and in, say, 100 years from now that which we define as logical may very well be considered naïve, old fashioned or even childishly simplistic? But you knew that, didn't you? ;o) (Bait for further discussion perhaps…) I used to be able to prove, mathematically, that 1=0 but I've forgotten how.

Last minute thought -- Once upon a time is was logical not to travel too far by sea in case you fell off the edge of the world. It was a genuine fear and based on the European 'world-view' of the time.

Gerry, I echo your comments on 'the Kursk'. It is known that one of the young sailors aboard actually won a competition for the privilege of serving aboard her.

Just breaking -- Yahel said "mary - You are giving a different definition for addition! 1+1 is never 1, unless you decide '1' represents zero" … Uhm, Yahel, 0+0=0, at least it does in my philosophy.

Disclaimer -- This is not intended as a 'get Yahel' posting… or is it???????

Ciao for now,


Mark Wed Aug 16 14:25:13 PDT 2000

MARY -- trouble with chat room is the immediacy of it. While chatting w/ Tina I was answering the phone, answering questions from wife and trying to prepare a meal. Chat room is useful if you can dedicate some time to just that activity. Notebook is really better-suited to my life: I can take a five-minute break during the day or a 45-minute break at night.

I can ponder my answers in Notebook, but in chat I'd have to be immediate. Yahel said the other day that everything I write looks professional. Thanks. But the fact is that everything entered into the Notebook is composed after a pause. I get to think about my response/input, I write in NotePad, read it, then copy and paste into Notebook Posting Form.

Like right now. Hard to experience in this format, but I just had to leave the PC, go to driveway and see what the pool installer backed into. I've been gone between 5 and 10 minutes yet will still be able to pick up the threads of my last thought. In chat that couldn't happen.

I like this notebook style of communication. It reminds me of a newspaper office where we used to leave notes for each other because we were seldom there at the same time. Later, in college, (that's right, I didn't start college until after I was already a news writer) I lived in a big house where we'd leave notes on the kitchen cork board.

Wed Aug 16 13:00:13 PDT 2000

Yahel Wed Aug 16 12:58:43 PDT 2000

Howard – That’s a good one.

Jerry – I’m Jewish, I saw the site and I am a little frightened by the fact that I wasn’t shocked. Maybe I wasn’t shocked because I knew all this before.

Rhoda – You are right that we don’t know about things like radiation directly through our senses. But we do in an indirect way. One SEES sick people, and therefor one concludes that there is a thing called radiation. Everything we know (except logic and mathematics) comes in a direct or an indirect way through our senses.

Mary – There are different definitions for the mathematical “one”, but that is not what you meant. Other definitions for “one” do not relate to the mathematical one. Therefor they have nothing to do with the discussion about logic.

mary Wed Aug 16 12:06:11 PDT 2000

yahel...thank you for proving my point for me...there is more than one logical definition of 1.

mark..dagnabbit..i waited for you in the chatroom..probably missed you by seconds. blast it.

must get in the pool now..back later..have fun all. thought are with those in the sub as well..dammit that is depressing..i feel for their families.

Debra Wed Aug 16 11:52:33 PDT 2000


Congratulations! It does mean something to me. Anyting that happens for the good of women and woman is for the good of all women. The ripple effects will be untolled.

They will equal more than we will ever know.

Pumping gas, selling cars whatever he will be at it for a long time. I can imagine him wondering if the person who bought the car got more then the person whom sold the car.

I can't go there.


Debra J. Palardy Wed Aug 16 11:44:41 PDT 2000

I'm actually having a tough day. It's no biggie but one thing at a time.

The begining and end of something to make one. If two crowds come together then they are one crowd. Right?
Hunreds of people or more but one crowd.

If you have two buckets of water and pour them into one bucket then you have one bucket of water. The unit is then bucket or the amounts of water. One gallon or two gallons or whatever.

One is whatever the unit is at the time of the counting.

So one plus one is two. Unless you have a happliy married couple then one plus one is still one. Maybe our souls are like a fluid.

What's next.


You sound like a great guy. I cannot bring myself to look at that site. I am not Jewish. I have suffered so much from what has happened to them. How? I found out!

One and one equals two here. Us the good guys and them the evil people killers.

There is obviously someone else here with me. And it's not good.

Rhoda Wed Aug 16 11:17:14 PDT 2000

Curiousity, by golly! Where is the spell checker when you need it, or the dictionary for that matter?

Rhoda Wed Aug 16 11:14:54 PDT 2000

Sorry, that name is Yahel, not Yehel. Someone else made that mistake before.

Rhoda Wed Aug 16 11:11:02 PDT 2000

I have never seen Matrix. My couriousity has been stirred. I suppose I will have to rent it.


My brain is too fried for philopsophy. I operate on a more simple, basic, shall I say animalistic mode? There is more a foot than what we conceive through five senses. How we process that information is important. At work here is instinct, as well as experience and intelligence. Intelligence allows us to extrapolate and reason, and people have long since reasoned the existence of things not seen, but later proved. We work with forces we do not perceive everyday. We may not see them, smell them, feel them, taste them or hear them, but they are there, and no philopsophy or philosopher can change that.

Radiation for example. It cannot be perceived, but it can make you sick and kill you. Likewise germs. Both germs and radiation were reasoned out before anyone proved their existence by either building microscopes or geiger counters. There are things everyday we encounter that cannot be perceived or ever quantified, but not knowing about them does not make them any less real.

There are millions of people in our society who are a world unto themselves. That is why we have so much crime, dishonesty and so many powerful people around who cheat and claw their way toward their goals. Fewer and fewer people seem to realize that when they go and mess up someone else's world, the whole of humanity suffers in inperceptable ways.

Actually the universe is a vast place not only in space and mass, but in depth and richness. We are only a small piece of all that, and if we choose to only perceive what we receive as the sum existence of all we all, how very small indeed we shall continue to be.


Congratulations for being vice president of such an organization. I join your husband and boss on agreeing that it is a great accomplishment.

Happy writing!


Debra J. Palardy Wed Aug 16 10:09:11 PDT 2000

Oh Jeeeeezzzeesh:

I go out for one morning and come back to find this mess!

I'm going to need a minute.


Jerry Ericsson Wed Aug 16 09:55:47 PDT 2000

Howard I can agree with you on your opnion on the authors statement on God. Glad your dreams stopped, although I am not sure that the site helped, it may have simply pointed to the underlaying problem that brought on the dream to begin with. Or your dreams were simply an undigested morsel from that evenings meal. Who knows.

I miss Alliens funnies, so thought I would pinch-hit for her just once:
During his visit to the United States, the Pope met with President Clinton. Instead of just an hour as scheduled, the meeting went on for two days. Finally, a weary President Clinton emerged to face the waiting news media.

The President was smiling and announced the summit was a resounding success. He said he and the Pope agreed on 80% of the matters they discussed. Then Mr. Clinton declared he was going home to the White House to be with his family.

A few minutes later the Pope came out to make his statement. He looked tired, and discouraged, and was practically in tears. Sadly he announced his meeting with the President was a failure.

Incredulous, one reporter asked, "But your Holiness, President Clinton just announced the summit was a great success and the two of you agreed on 80% of the items discussed."

Exasperated, the Pope answered, "Yes, but we were talking about the Ten Commandments."


howard Wed Aug 16 09:35:23 PDT 2000

JERRY -- Thanks so much for the pointer to that website. I was up late reading it all, and while I cannot agree with the author's conclusion about God, I do agree that it is a powerful reminder of the seemingly limitless depravity of which we are all capable.
It's strange that you should point that out the same day I heard a reference to (and will soon purchase) a book by Simon Wiesenthal, titled "The Sunflower: On the Possibilities and Limits of Forgiveness" It is a collection of essays by people directly and indirectly connected with the Holocaust.

Strange,also -- I slept last night without dreaming...

Yahel -- There are three kinds of people: One that can count, and one that cannot.

JADE -- I was working on a poem -- poetry in motion, so to speak - but it didn't move fast enough.


Yahel Wed Aug 16 08:37:24 PDT 2000

mary - You are giving a different definition for addition! 1+1 is never 1, unless you decide '1' represents zero, or give a different definition for +.

Tina - Read the previous paragraph. You are doing the same thing with -.

Mark - 1+1=3? never.

Tina Wed Aug 16 08:21:09 PDT 2000

A victory note! I went anyway and had a little chat with Mark. The chat room is nice when you're not alone! Now I really have to go get ready for work! Thanks Mark. :-)


Jerry Ericsson Wed Aug 16 08:20:33 PDT 2000

Rosemary - thank you very much, I don't think you have the names mixed up, I was a police officer for over 17 years.

Mary - hope you did get a good nights sleep. With a name like Ericsson, you can tell that I am not Jewish, I am sort of a Lutheran/catholic mix, but anyhow, I think everyone should visit that site once a year. It is a reminder of mans cruelty against his fellow man.

Now my thoughts are for the one hundred eighteen men stuck at the bottom of the sea, and those who are attempting to free them. I pray that they are successful, yet I fear it is already too late. Despite our difference in ideals, the world should pull together to save those brave sailors. I am sure that few of them asked to be there, and when it comes to that, we all put our pants the same way. It could be our sailors down there, and I would hope that the Russians would do everything in their power to help. As I type this, the news says that the British are underway steaming to the site to attempt a rescue with their recovery devices. I can but wish them God Speed.

Hallee - I am sending my muse, feel free to use her services until yours returns. Perhaps writing something in remembrance of your grandfather would help getting the creative juices flowing.


Tina Wed Aug 16 08:07:59 PDT 2000

Mary, Mark, I'd love to try a chat but now I have to get ready for work! I really didn't mean to take so long posting. But I love the thought that we are all sitting at our computers in our own homes, with other things happening in our corners of the world, but right now we are all focused on this one place. Our overlapping worlds, eh?


in the chat room Wed Aug 16 08:07:56 PDT 2000


Mark Wed Aug 16 08:04:21 PDT 2000

Our constitution is in actual operation; everything appears to promise that it will last; but in this world nothing is certain but death and taxes
Benjamin Franklin, 1789

Tina Wed Aug 16 08:02:55 PDT 2000

Welcome to my reality. Being logical and being rational are not neccesarily the same things. In my paradigm, logic exists without options, desires, risks. Choices become irrelevant because there is only one logical result/outcome/path to take. It is mathematical because there is only one correct answer. Rationality demands emotion, produces choice, creates possibilities. It is not logical to spend days in a studio working with carcinogenic inks and cleaners, perhaps it's even irrational. However, when I finish the piece of art to my satisfaction, 1+1=10. I combine ink and paper, but the result is more than ink on paper. If the price of creativity is being a bit irrational and not logical at all, I will embrace my animal nature and enjoy the result.

However, it is not logical to drive drunk, and it is very irrational. Morality and values and common sense place limits on how irrational one should be, and that is what prevents us from going too far over the edge.

When does 4-1=5 ?

When you cut one corner off of a square sheet of paper.

mary Wed Aug 16 07:54:50 PDT 2000

Mark: we are both posting at the same time..hmmmmm...good chat opportunity here, but alas you are probably already gone...c-ya

mary Wed Aug 16 07:53:30 PDT 2000

Yahel:i'm pretty sure thats what Heather meant too. winks. hey, i've got an idea, lets go out and practice our addition skills on a few glasses of wine, cuz honey, you need to stop thinking so hard all the kidding.

Mark Wed Aug 16 07:50:53 PDT 2000

and, of course, there's 1+1=3

mary Wed Aug 16 07:47:00 PDT 2000

yahel: if 1 represents a cluster of items...then it doesnt always mean 1. take one crowd of people add it to another crowd of people...the variables are endless. and you dont end up with 2 crowds of end up with 1 really big crowd of people. so in this case 1+1=1

Yahel Wed Aug 16 07:26:44 PDT 2000

Tina – When one acts irrationally, one acts not as a man but as a beast. I think we have different definitions for the term “illogical”.

Heather – Logic is an absolute. ‘1’ is only the graphical representation of one item. (Actually there is a different definition, but I’m drifting into mathematics). In essence 1+1 always equals 2. Logic is not a theory. The rules of logic (like the one mentioned below) are undeniable truth:
If A leads to B, and B leads to C, then A leads to C.

Hallee – Congratulations!

Hallee Wed Aug 16 03:51:11 PDT 2000

Happy Wednesday to you all. That post below was much longer than I intended. And, I don't know that I got any movements really described, but it was all I could think of writing about. Perhaps Tina was right (grin). Looks like you guys get to be the backwash of my inability to continue blowing up Chicago ( my novel...cough)

The Matrix is one of my all time favorite movies. I think it is a combination of so many things that makes it so enjoyable to me. I have very few movies in my collection, probably because I'm too cheap to spend money on myself (I won't include the 40 or so movies my dear daughter has - I'm cheap with ME not HER - haha) but The Matrix is definitely one of them. I've watched it several times, and am looking forward to seeing the sequels (they filmed two at one time, you know).

As of last night, I am officially the Vice President of our local chapter of the National Association of Women in Construction. I realize how little this means to you all, but my boss and husband are rather proud of me. We had the big banquet last night - it was great fun. Every person at my table gave me their tickets for the door prizes. I walked out with a gift certificate for a full body massage, a gift certificate for a pedicure, and a gift certificate for a consultation with a "hair designer" and a hair cut. I may take my anniversary off and get "prettied up".

Oh, Debra - he's a used car salesman - not a gas pumper. haha

Okay, that's it for me. Time to get ready for work.


Hallee Wed Aug 16 03:42:58 PDT 2000

He was already 10. His whole body was flooded with energy. His paws danced the ground, no particular pattern or order. Every few seconds, all four would leave the ground, just to begin the dance again. He shook his head, his ears flying out around his head, causing the tags on his collar to jingle just so. The whole time, he tried to wag the tail that wasn’t there, his whole rear end would end up wagging with the effort. While his eyes laughed, his tongue lolled out of his grinning mouth, moving from one corner to the other with the movements of his head. Then he would freeze, fall on his haunches, and all that energy would ball up and be focused on a hind leg, whose paw’s sole purpose was to cure that itch, moving fast enough along his side to be a blur.

Three years later. Every movement hurt. His back stayed hunched, in deference to the arthritis that plagued his spine. He moved so slowly, one paw in front of the other, careful so as not to jar his aching body. The itch seemed to be gone, or perhaps the annoyance was overshadowed with the pain that would come by trying to reach it. He no longer leaped onto the couch, rather he crawled up it, careful because that back foot almost always tried to slip off. The effort would cause his body to collapse and curl up, then bring forth a huge sigh that would shudder through his whole body. But then you’d say his name, and his ears would perk up, his eyes would open, and they’d still be laughing.

Heather Wed Aug 16 00:37:34 PDT 2000

She moved as though she had an army of ants in her underwear and a bucket of ice between her knees.

There's my addition!
How does that move ya?

Heather Wed Aug 16 00:34:45 PDT 2000

Alright. No one has put forth this idea yet. So I will.

Yahel: In essence you are right. We all live alone in our own worlds. I live in my own world. No one else does. No one truly shares it with me, because no one else but me is in this body, in this mind, or this soul. No one sees this world that I live in the way I see it, and for them to 'see it', I would have to explain in words.
Therefore, this Earth contains the same number of worlds as there are people living on it. Now, that doesn't mean that my family and I do not have worlds that coincide, overlap, or blend. That's our choice. But no one looks out of these eyes but me, nor feels what it is like to hold an apple with my hand but me. I might feel the apple as cool and smooth, but my son might feel it as warm and good to squeeze.

Imagine if what I think is blue is really more of a turquoise? People argue over colour all the time. No, I think it's tomato red. No, it's Macintosh apple-red. No, it's ...!
But perhaps the first person sees apple red as tomato red. Then, to them, it would be the opposite of how the second person perceives the same colour. That is how we each see the world just a little differently. Our senses are as individual as we are.

Logical vs. illogical. Hmmm.
What is logical to me may be illogical to you.
There is no stable base on which to place logic.
We are sentient beings. We have no other means of perceiving our world without senses.
Modern (or other) Logic is not an absolute. Logic is merely the agreed upon fiction until another theory kills it off and takes over.
Not if the value of 1 is not one item. 1 could mean 3 to me.
Is that illogical? What does that mean?

Is that similar to 'normal'?

You'll have to illustrate what you think on that topic before I will be able to respond directly.
Give us the line you intended us to follow, from point A to F and then on to B.

Mary - the Matrix points out that anything is possible to those who can imagine it.
Or see truth and still have a brain left.

More on that later... can't think now.
That would mean some weird form of logic will surely catch up to me. And make me not post this.


Heather Wed Aug 16 00:03:21 PDT 2000

Mary - quite right on the Matrix. That was exactly the point. Actually, it was one of several. We can learn a lot about life and writing at the same time. After all, art imitates life and vice versa.

Debra - once a conflict has been resolved, the hero won't go out and fix him- or her-self another problem, unless they were the cause of their original dilemma, and then if they do fix themselves with more problems, they haven't learned and perhaps the problem is still there.

If that is not the case, what happens is that the protagonist can now use what they've learned in order to solve the next difficulty they must face. We don't just run into one big problem in our entire lives. Usually the antagonist will come up with a new scheme. Think batman, or spidey here. Think any movie script, but the most obvious feature Arnold (no lat name required). He tries and tries and comes up with new ways to accomplish the goals in the movie. When he finally triumphs, movie ends. Look for the sequel. It will resurrect the antagonist somehow and the hero must stand up and figure out how to beat him all over again.

It is a simple plot ploy used by Hollywood over and over.

Along with obvious plants and misleads. Along with easily predicted turns-of-events, depending on the type of movie and so on. The better scripts are much less predictable. Being able to predict some of the plot does have some merit, however. The audience feels that they understand what's going on, and when they figure out a few things along the way (NOT ALL) they feel smarter. Strange but true.

Above all, the events should make sense - ie: be cohesive. Fit the puzzle. Be the next slice of the pie.

Trying to be intriguing doesn't usually work. It's accidental if it's memorable.

Just a guess.


Ok, now to read the rest of the posts...

Christi Tue Aug 15 23:33:30 PDT 2000

Hi everyone!

Yay, Heather and Howard are back! Happy happy, joy joy!!

I haven't written much since my mother-in-law died, but I'm just now starting to come out of it. It'll pass, I promise!

Are you saying that you want to spank my big behind?! How did you know--heeeeeey, have you been at it with the binoculars again? I'm telling your wife.

You will dream of Disneyland tonight. One, two, three . . . SNAP!

Mark again,
Very nice description! Bravo!

Thanks, Jade. What a fun excersize!

Yesterday, as my back was turned to the living room I felt the floor tremble with loud, thunderous footsteps. I wasn't scared; I knew exactly what it was. I've been hearing that sound for thirteen years. Turning, I surprised the culprit by grabbing him and planting a big kiss on his gaping maw.

The first time I noticed the way my husband walked was on the first day I met him. He wasn't an especially tall man, or an especially large one. He was quite handsome, with light brown curly hair, beautiful eyes to match, and olive sundrenched skin. Still, he wasn't really my type. I tended to gravitate toward blonder men. But then I noticed the way he moved. His legs were slightly bowlegged and didn't have all that much meat on them. But he walked like he was a football player, or a bull in a china shop. His shoulders were squared and he had his eyes planted unfalteringly on the object he was walking towards. In this case, the object was me. He came my way with such determination that I found myself instantly attracted to him.
Then we were only eighteen. There's been many years in between that initial meeting and now, and my husband's walk has changed very little. He's got a few more pounds on his frame than he did then, and his hairline creeps back a little further every year, but when I hear the pounding proclamation of his arrival on the front step each day, I'm eighteen all over again. I love the way he walks.



Tina Tue Aug 15 22:58:18 PDT 2000

Is anyone out there?

Hellllloooooooooooooo :-(

Tina Tue Aug 15 19:50:50 PDT 2000


The Matrix? I loved the Matrix. Our reality is the reality we decide to believe in. If we decide that reality is being educated, living by our moral beliefs, and a nice house in the suburbs, then that's what we live. If we decide that reality is dirty and cruel, that we must take everything we can before anyone else gets their share, and that if we're not the winner we are the loser, then that's what we live.

Unless of course I'm in a stasis unit on some alien planet, and the images are being fed to my brain in an effort to study human motivation and behavior.....

Hallee, what are you trying to write? Maybe you can't write your story right now, but I'd bet that there're words aching to get out. Don't worry about WHAT you write, just write. Journal-style, or as a letter, whatever comes out. Sometimes writer's block is really writer's detour. It's your subconscious trying to tell you that you need to go down a different road for awhile; stop along the way, sit at the beach, and let the sun recharge your soul.

I do my best to split my waking hours between being logical and illogical. If I'd done the logical thing I never would've gone to art school, never would've taken up jiu-jitsu, never ever would've started writing a book. I am who I am because I've chosen to be illogical, and I wouldn't change a thing. Logic is highly over-rated.

Let's all rise to the challenge put out by Jade. It's been a long time since there was a good shortie night!


Debra J. Palardy Tue Aug 15 19:40:06 PDT 2000


I went to that website a to z. I was too afraid to click on anything. I just closed it. After hearing Mary comments on it, I think I will just leave it at that. I don't know how you find all the interesting sites you find?


School is hard sometimes. You don't want to be standing in a crowd someday and see a really smart Handsom man standing there and lose him to some smarty pants who knows so much more than you do, do you? It happens. It really does.

There is enough time for everything when you are smart. If you don't get an education, there is too much time of nothing.


Mark Tue Aug 15 19:35:25 PDT 2000

My first hint at the way women move came when I was about 11 and my mother had to run for a bus. I was across the street at Strickland's playing catch in their driveway. I saw mom walking at a really fast pace out our drive, and thought that she must be late for the bus. I didn't think much about it and continued playing. Suddenly I heard her mezzo voice holler, "Driver! Driver!" The bus had pulled up to the intersection and she could shout directly at his open window. We lived in the fourth house from the corner, so she would have to sprint about three houses to get to the bus stop.
As she began to run I noticed her chest. It rose and fell in its own cycle of motion. As each foot touched the ground and the other foot raised to sweep forward, her chest fell and was swept back up until it seemed to hover out in front of her like an independent thing, just floating under her blouse. Immediately, of course, that floating thing fell to its bottom and with a liquid-like movement swung slightly forward. It was like a wave rolling down to some barrier then crashing forward and back up again. I followed that motion for the full length of her run. As she got closer to the corner my angle became less side view and more back. With each footfall her chest became slightly less visible but no less bouncing and independent.
I've since learned to appreciate other women and other motions. I have an eye for the way a leg moves and the way a woman turns a corner. I have memories of particular women sorted by "which part enters the room first." My wife used to sit cross-legged on the floor and stand directly up with a dancer's strength and grace, most of the lift being accomplished by her left leg while the right unwound and settled into standing position.

mary Tue Aug 15 19:04:18 PDT 2000

Jerry: curiosity killed the cat...went to the link you put up. read from a-z. i dont think i will sleep at all tonight as i am afraid to close my eyes. i had no idea.

Jessica Tue Aug 15 18:58:04 PDT 2000

You're all wrong, Every thing came into existence when I was born, past, present, future, everything revolves around me. :) If only :( Oh well, Nobody created anything, we all are here because of, either a) we where put here, or b) all of life on this planet happened by chance, right time, right place thing. your choice. Ok, that's all I can think right now, school drained all of my creative abilities out of me, and I can't regenerate fast enough to save them. I think that school is just one big vast black hole that takes students free will and just sucks it in, leaving mindless conformed drones. HELP! I can feel my creativity being sucked out of me!
If anyone is actualy listening to my babble, save yourselves from the evil school! Don't listen to me, I'm just being brainless. ;)

Rosemary Tue Aug 15 18:48:46 PDT 2000

Hello all,
I just finished reading Jerry's short story on the Workbook.
I would like to say that of all the writing i have read in the workbook, yours is as close to professional as I have seen yet. Perhaps one of the Chicken Soup books. I started to recommend 'Chicken Soup for the Literary Lawman' but I think I have Jerry and Garry mixed up. My problem with names.

your cousin is a perfect example of the effect of philisophy on a perfectly good brain. My theory is that it has messed up almost as many people as religion.

Now that I have irritated most of you,
Good night.

Jerry Ericsson Tue Aug 15 17:31:58 PDT 2000

Howard - had that same dream the other day, went on the web in search of the cure, found it at the above addres, complete the site, a to z - your dream will go away. Maybe replaced by a new one, but that one will die I am sure.


Rhoda Tue Aug 15 17:30:06 PDT 2000

Life is but a dream? If only (sigh).

Debra J. Palardy Tue Aug 15 16:52:02 PDT 2000

Actually Yahel:

Mark invented me and you. You were the one whom said that I was the only one whom existed. Mark actually gave you permission to do that because ..................

Oh I give up UNCLE UNCLE!

In case you have never heard Yahel, that one it means I give up. You win hands down.

It no wonder your cousin works in a gas station. He will be there for a long time wondering if the gas is pmping him or is he pumping the gas. Are the cars going because they have gas of do they just like the smell of gas. Never mind Uncle. Again!


mary Tue Aug 15 15:46:59 PDT 2000

yahel: i only mentioned "The Matrix" because i felt that it did a good job of explaining why we would ever create our own conflicts. personally i dont care for keanu's acting abilities..but the special FX were awesome. smiles you. (i dont like to be logical ALL the time..i sometimes enjoy flights of fancy with a side of impossible dreams)

Debra: sorry girlie, but the only connection i can make between sex and tennis is that hot Aussie, Rafter, who looks like a god even when he is losing. (just kidding...i get what you're

Howard: thinking of you...hoping you rest easier tonight. being haunted by dreams can wreak havoc with your whole life. big hugs your direction.

Everyone else: hello...more later. :-)

Yahel Tue Aug 15 15:11:41 PDT 2000

Debra – Who said you created the world? (Well you must have said it because you are the only one who exists). Maybe the world was always there, created by no one?

Mary – I watched “Matrix” and I must say it wasn’t very logical.

Litter – Your mind’s playing tricks on you, eh mate?

Mark – Amazing… I created a fiction who thinks he created me and he is also proud of himself!!! I also created a fiction (Debra) who believes another fiction created her!!! (Don’t continue on that note, it can get pretty complicated)

Philosophy – Good response people! Decartes decided science didn’t have quite a solid base. For instance our senses. We know we can’t always trust our senses. When we are dreaming we see hear and feel things, although they’re not really there. So if we are looking for a solid base, we can’t trust our senses. We all know Decartes’ famous saying: “I think therefor I am”, but actually it was: “I doubt therefor I am”. One thing Decartes was sure about was that he doubts. Decartes told himself: “How can I be sure I doubt? Well if I’m not sure that I doubt then I doubt that I doubt. In any case I doubt”. Well, If someone doubts then lets call this person “I”. Therefor: “I doubt therefor I am”. Unfortunately, Decartes didn’t get any further. Good logic, but it got us nowhere.

howard Tue Aug 15 15:05:07 PDT 2000

There was a very interesting interview with horror writer Peter Straub today on NPR's "Fresh Air." It should be available via internet in a day or so. Well worth listening. The first part of the program was also excellent -- an interview with Emmy Lou Harris.

MARK -- When I told you about this group you never said that it was already all just a fragment of your imaginary! Does that include Teekay and Sasquatch?

I've started dreaming again. For two nights now I've been on a train in WWII Germany, and I see people dying all around me but I can't get off the train. And there are books lying about. The two nights bothers me. Why can't I get off the train? It's not that I dislike trains, but the porter only cares about American cigarettes and JFK half-dollars (which doesn't make sense because it's WWII), and he keeps moving the books. There's a young soldier who keeps looking at me and weeping.

I've started dreaming again

Debra Tue Aug 15 13:03:48 PDT 2000


Now why are you crying? Can't we just all get along?

Just wait until your inventor gets home, Mark or Yahel oh I forget.

Who's your daddy?


Debra J. Palardy Tue Aug 15 12:35:33 PDT 2000

Just for the record didn’t say welcome to any new people because I don’t know who’s new. That’s because I’m probably the newest.


Thanks for inventing me. I love it here in your imagination. I hope I can continue to amuse my inventor. What happens if I fail? Never mind the pressure would just break me.


How can I Disney this up? Yes, sex is mental tennis. It’s one of those times when the expression, you can’t get there from here, actually makes sense. If one were to go straight to south of the border trying to get to south of the border, he would turned away to go around through the north first. You know watta mean jelly bean? Now occasionally, there are special times when one might be in a hurry and they would like a trip to the south and with a special pass they can go that way. Not all the time, mind you.

In tennis you have players, professionals and spectators not to mention those important instructors. Sometimes you’ve got these knuckleheads playing miniature golf who actually think that they are in the game. Mark un-invent them, immediately!

Fear of success.

Yes, I think to a degree we all do it. It’s the fear of having it all and losing it. Then we are afraid that we won’t be able to process the information to a degree that we will find extremely painful.

Sound familiar?

Let me know.


jade you all know who i am by now...winks Tue Aug 15 12:24:41 PDT 2000

writing exercise:

capture in words the way something a snake thru tall grass or a belly dancer...(poem or narrative..makes no nevermind)...have fun.

Tue Aug 15 12:20:55 PDT 2000

I have a question Yahel:

If I only imagine that you are here..and you only imagine that I am here....which one of us is REALLY here??? Or are we all just imagined and if so, by whom? God? Wow. Talk about stolen Bible karma...geez. The ultimate mind-f***.

thinking this is another one of those posts i will be sorry for later.

Jon on imperial holidays Tue Aug 15 12:17:58 PDT 2000

Jack, healing vibes to your friend to add to the prayers of all.

Aric, you should be more careful about spelling names correctly. Jahel is right, and Americana is also wrong. My name is Jon (no h, please). Where are your prizes, AriK?

Avatar. There is already a title-story in SM**. But Americo intends to write you personally when he finds more time. (Isn't this a great distinction? It's true that you deserve it, but I also do and he never wrote to me! Exits, crying jealously.)

mary again Tue Aug 15 11:51:46 PDT 2000

Debra: forgot the conflict of interests part of our post: arent we all famous for sabotaging ourselves? fear of success and all the sot? smiles you....this is fun.

mary notdotcalm Tue Aug 15 11:48:01 PDT 2000

Debra: yes, (for the sake of argument) i do believe that if we are creating our own conflicts, we have limits to what we can bear. and not to be perverted or anything..but a good metaphor for that would probably be human sexual preferences. we all have the same (relative) bodies. why do some people enjoy things that others dont?(bdsm for example) it is all mental thats why. powerplay/counteraction type deal. maybe we feel the need to strike balances between the good and the bad. ???? just an idea.

Mark Tue Aug 15 11:15:13 PDT 2000

I'm awestruck, simply awestruck, at the level of the conversation around here. Yahel must be right, I must be alone and all the writing I've seen here invented by me. Who else could maintain such a high level of intelligent correspondence. I couldn't have predicted that I would invent a Yahel, but as my other inventions, Mary and Debra, so smartly noted, we invent obstacles in order to get over them. Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis. Plus! my mental Heat!her showed me I! could invent it! and then!! comment on it!! Damn, I'm good.

If I'm all alone here and all the characters are in my brain, can I say I've just given you a piece of my mind?

Christi, if you're there, just read the first phrase of the first quote in the long post. That's what grade you get {can I play scavenger hunt here, or what?}

Hallee, hang in there, we're here.

I don't normally keep a laptop on my lap, nor a poptop on . . .

Jack, what inspired you to open this place?

If I make nasty remarks or abuse someone here, and I'm really the only one here, would that be self-abuse?

What's the karma on a stolen bible?

Hallee Tue Aug 15 09:55:54 PDT 2000

I have a cousin who graduated college 2 years ago with a philosophy degree. It's no wonder he sells used cars now.

Happy Tuseday all! Nothing happening ( reading..NOTHING - just work, clean house; work, clean house, do laundry; work - well, you get the idea) that's exciting enough to write to ya'll about.

I wonder how much of my writer's block is a backwash from grief. I didn't really cry when my grandpa died, I know he's so much better off now, but when I sit down to write, I don't have the energy. It's like..what's the point? Or, almost, how can I allow myself this escape when my family is up in Oregon grieving? Or, perhaps, I simply have writer's block and should just go with the flow until the muse returns. (sigh)


Litter Tue Aug 15 09:55:34 PDT 2000

Hi all, real or fantasy.

Lorraine -- I've got a sister called Lorraine as well -- can this be coincidence or could it be divine intervention/predestination??? Questions questions… Anyway, welcome -- if you can determine both its speed and location, simultaneously, pull up a chair. Fed.job huh? Do the names Mulder or Scully mean anything to you? Have you seen an X-file for real?

French Eddie -- I would have welcomed you but it is the, ehm, the south-of-the-border connection … You understand …

Rachel -- I know of a landowner in England who swears by iMac's -- he uses them in his trebuchet as they are more aerodynamic than most PC's and therefore fly further :o)

Yahel -- it is true. I am alone and you are all a figment of my imagination but why oh why can't I get you all to behave …


Debra J. Palardy Tue Aug 15 09:01:15 PDT 2000


I did see the movie and probably should see it again. But wouldn't striving to defeat the conflict be a conflict of interest? If what you say could be true, that is, in Matrix two should they all be so utterly happy that the new hero should be the one planning a new problem?

You know what I mean?

My kids are always creating chaos and I am always trying to defeat chaos. So I must think that chaos is the opposite of me? I do think that, believe me. I just don't get why I would create something so anti what I want.

Take my husband for instance, I would hate it if he were unfaithful. He isn't. We have a wonderful relationship. So why did I not get a man that would make me miserable?

Is there a cut off point to our need for conflict? Are there always bigger conflicts that we don't want to battle that we just leave for the professionals?


mary Tue Aug 15 08:50:19 PDT 2000

Debra: did you see 'The Matrix'? here is just a little theory on why (if we do indeed create our worlds) as to why we create them with such suffering.

in 'Matrix' the idea is that we measure our strength by our suffering. compare ourselves to each other with that as the ruler. we thrive with conflict to overcome...obstacles to conquer. kinda like when we write i guess....(would the story be any good without the conflicts? neither would our lives) at least that is what i got from the movie.

you should see it, if you havent already, and let me know what you think.

smiles to all. love ya.

Debra J. Palardy Tue Aug 15 07:32:40 PDT 2000

Tue Aug 15 07:31:36 PDT 2000


If yahel's theory is rihgt then there is no connection between the fact that he can't understand that I he said that there is no connection and what it is that he is feeling about saying it.


It's really all right anyway because I'm the only one on earth and it's all about me.

But if that were true than why did I create a world in which I live is a tiny tea cup house with four kids, two dogs and a husband? I clean all day and it's still getting messy again. What was I thinking when I created this world in which I really live alone? If that were true, than I am the slob. So that can't be true.

If I am in fact the only one here, although, I might not create a world in which I am the center of attention I definately would not have one where there are so many people hurting each other.

So there has to be someone here with me.

I would have created a world where people only take what they need and leave something for the next person. A world where love is the most important thing of all. A world in which more people are happy with less and more people have more.

The final proof that someone is definately here with me, I would have been much taller in my world.


eddiefrench Tue Aug 15 05:23:00 PDT 2000

I came across this and thought you might like it.
A Bar Tender has been to evening class, after some time there he writes his resignation letter to the Bar owner.

Dear N
As you know, I have recently been attending evening classes at the Institute of Psycho-Social Psychology. I must give the course my strongest approbation. Through my studies of pre and post-Socratic thought, I feel alive for the first time and to this end, feel I must leave your Company to find myself a little more (I’m particularly looking for a beauty spot or two, preferably around my nasal area).

What really inspires me is that Socrates himself took so much courage in the face of certain death. This courage gave his life some authentic meaning which is something that my own existence lacks totally, although it does possess some minimal significance to the Inland Revenue.

But I still have lots of questions and want to learn, oh so much more. I often imagine myself in dialogue with Socrates. He said he did not fear confinement because his mind would always be free but what if he wanted to go for a walk – how did he cope? Is evil as he suggested, merely good in excess? I suppose it is true. I mean, if you listen to one song by Cliff Richard it may be beautiful. But if he keeps singing, it gives you a headache and so becomes evil.

Didn’t Socrates prove that the soul is immortal? Maybe he proved lots of things on paper but that’s the problem with philosophy – its not that functional once you leave the classroom. And he talked of “eternal forms”, that everything always did exist and always will exist but to my mind, surely he was only talking about statues and other heavy objects. Its different for people isn't it? I mean, death isn't the really the same as sleep. For one, its more difficult to find your slippers when its time to get up.

Anyway, I’m getting carried away (but not enough). Time for me to go (if indeed there is such a thing as time).

Adieu, RR

Arik Tue Aug 15 02:40:24 PDT 2000

Yahel - I have problems with names... thats why I call Americo americana. it is your destany to be called Yehel!

Yahel Tue Aug 15 00:41:29 PDT 2000

Arik – For the last time… it is “Yahel” not “Yehel”. Just write it as you pronounce it.

Debra – Keep writing. But “why” you say if there is no connection between you posting and the message getting posted? Because I might be wrong. (I can’t believe I said that).

Mark – You never cease to amaze me in ways I’m not at liberty to say. Everything you write seems very professional and I feel like one of your students (I think I’m also treated that way). I hope I will get an ‘A’ sometime. I do not understand your problem with the structure, except maybe to move the 5th paragraph before the 3rd.

Avatar – No connection whatsoever, not even the slightest one.

Philosophy – Next claim: You are the only one that exists in the world.

All – A thought crept into my mind: I’m just like a salesman only I don’t say: “Thank you come again” or “Tell all your friends about me”.

Heather Mon Aug 14 22:54:37 PDT 2000

Hallooooo! (Winnie-the-Pooh hello)

Well, to let the kitten out of the burlap, I have been lurking. *guilty shrug*
Not posting, but the occasional lurk or two.
I haven't had much to say.
(WHAAAT? ME? What and who and ...just how many beers did I have over the weekend?)

Don't worry, Rhoda, there are so many things on the go for you right now, it is no surprise you haven't written much. Never feel guilty for not writing and still coming to the NB! That's part of the reason we're all here - (to waste time - ha ha)
...ah, but really, we're here to inspire and help and give each other the gusto to keep writing, to write better, and to just plain fashion those million-mile-an-hour neuron-firings into something worth the title of 'art'. Even if you post that you are having some 'down time', you are still writing something. Let us be your sounding-board, no matter what it is you have written. (Or in my case this week, NOT written).

Yes, yes. Perhaps that is why I have not posted much either. Dry, dry whispers of words are building their kindling-bodies up, and soon they will catch fire again. For now I am enjoying my own down time. I need it. No apologies - at least none today!

Ah, notebook, what a wond'rous place it is where I can air my half-asleep wordsmith's voice. She's waking ever so gently. This is like writing warm up, for me. And this late at night is my prime time.

Haven, here I come!

See, what terrific medicine it is to brush souls with all of you via the web! (I'd add extraneous ex!cla!mations! but they're under!stood, right!?)
And here I insert my misty-eyed gladness for your presences in my world. If I didn't have this forum to visit, I would be completly past redemption. In a coupon sort of way.
And in a medical vein as well...
(Charge it up to 200 Frankie, she's flatlining! Gaaaawd, look at her fingers still gripping the keyboard like that! Creepy...)

Well, enough is enou...

Tina Mon Aug 14 22:36:27 PDT 2000

Didn't make it to the lake! Maybe tomorrow.

Thanks Jerry, that's a great site. Absolutely full of the information I need, which is just about everything there is to do with screen plays. I don't know much about the process, but I've got this IDEA that suits a movie better than a novel. I'll see what happens....

Allein, it's not a bad sunburn, just enough to make me itchy. And raccoon eyes from wearing sunglasses while looking up at the airplanes. It'll be brown in a couple days, I'm sure.

Mary, I was wondering where you got to! Rhoda and Teekay and all the other lurkers too!

Much writing to do, but it'll have to wait until tomorrow. Enough excitement this weekend to do me for the rest of the summer, and I'm exhausted. Have a good one! :-)

Arik Mon Aug 14 21:39:28 PDT 2000

Everyone - Sorry for not beeng here for so much time. I had problems with my computer screen.

Debra - If Yehel's phylosophy is true, Then there is no connection between his post and yours! There is no connection between Americo's return and that I'll welcome him (WELCOME BACK AMERICANA). If yehel's phylosophy is true, There won't be any connection between this post and the fact you are going to answer it :-).

Jon - How are you? I have good news for you : There is another person in the notebook that doesn't like milk and vodka coctail. he once said:

"This is a fine coctail
if you dont use the milk"


Christi Mon Aug 14 21:02:44 PDT 2000

Mary! How could I forget Mary? Don't you dare retreat to the rafters, we've missed you around here. (Hugs)

Debra J. Palardy Mon Aug 14 20:55:34 PDT 2000


Pure adrenaline!

I only get a few minutes away from my big o bunch of kids and when I do I want to write. It doesn’t matter to whom or what. All that matters is that a thought is in there and now it is here. WHAT WAS I THINKING? Diamonds, fur and sex I guess.

It happens!


Mon Aug 14 20:32:57 PDT 2000

'out, out damn spot.'

mary Mon Aug 14 20:31:20 PDT 2000

hello everyone..smiles all around.

ever posted a message somewhere that you just wish you could keep hitting the 'BACK' button on your browser until you went back to the time before you posted it? i wish i could go back and not rape marks poem....i am afraid i have been in a bit of a funk lately and took it out on cumulo-nimbus cloud sheep. it was a fine poem the way it was apologies..smiles.

back to the rafters to watch you all post.

Christi Mon Aug 14 20:29:16 PDT 2000

Jelloooo, friends!

I loved ALL the poems,; especially the one from Ed's grandson. Also because I, too, LOVE The Simpsons!



Keep 'em coming!

Welcome back, Americo! I hope your trip was full of good things. We missed you; don't go away again for a long time!

Hi Teekay! Hate to ask here, but did you get my last email? Because my box has been noticably empty as of late. It's starting to go from a lighter kind of depression into the fully manic phase. I think he might do something bad if he doesn't get an email from you soon. His name is Ronald. Do you remember Ronald? He used to be so happy, so gay. Sniff. Are you crying yet?

You are so cute. Now what were you on when you wrote that last post? It made me laugh many times. I think your first guess was right, as I've never seen Gariess attempt a pick-up before.

Holy cow, Mark. I kept scrolling and scrolling and finally hit the top of your post. All right, I guess I'll read the whole thing, but it'd better be worth it, mister!
Okay, done now, and it was worth it. Don't you just hate sentence fragments? What grade do I get, Teach? NO! Please don't tell me; my ego has been bruised enough lately.

Welcome!!! Nice introduction!

I'll be thinking about your friend and saying a prayer for her.
I'd also like to say thank you for keeping up this wonderful place even though you're working hard at your new job. THANKS!

Have a blast and come back soon!

I'm glad to see you made it. Try not to feel guilty about the down-times in your writing. You're still a writer, just a busy one.

Thanks for all the website info. It's invaluable!

Hi Allein, hi Tina, hi Avatar! Did I miss anyone? I surely hope not.

Look ma, no jokes! I don't even know why I'm posting this boring pile of poo, except that I spent all this @#$&@#% time writing it. And all you dear souls who suffered through it, just remember that it took me much longer to write it than for you to read it. Feel very sorry for me.

Love to all,


Allein Mon Aug 14 19:47:41 PDT 2000

Tina - Sunburn? Ouch! I was out at the beach this weekend with some friends while I was camping and got a little sunburned. Now it's more of a tan - which is nice because I hardly ever tan. I also got a bug bite and it itches like crazy.

Jerry Ericsson Mon Aug 14 18:20:06 PDT 2000

Tina - check out the site above, it has lots about screenwriting, hope it is what you are looking for.


Debra J. Palardy Mon Aug 14 18:15:57 PDT 2000


Thanks so much. I've been told on more than a few occasions that I should not give up my day job when it comes to comedy.

My day job is being a mother, so no danger there.

I do like a good laugh, that's for sure.

Do you think that there is a connection between a good joke and a good laugh?

Should we change connect the dots to conincedence the dots? That's probably misspelled.


Tina Mon Aug 14 17:32:52 PDT 2000

Hello all, and welcome Loraine! :-)

Debra, be reassured that you give us a laugh. Me any way. I enjoy your posts.

I am buzzing! Just returned from a weekend at an airshow and my adrenaline is still pumping. F-15s, A-10s, C-5s, B-1s (sounds like bingo when I put it that way) sailplanes, Spitfires, Corsairs, Snowbirds, BIG helicopters, Lear jets and Tutors and Yaks, oh my! We always camp on site, right at the airport, and this morning two F-15s took off (fighter jets like in Top Gun), circled around and buzzed the tower. They passed directly over our heads, hardly 30 feet off the ground! I'm not exagerating. We had line-of-sight as they passed the tower, and they were lower than the two-storey tower! My heart is leaping into my mouth right now just thinking about it! It was the icing on a very delicious cake.

Does anyone know of a good book/article/website with information on screen plays? My husband and I spent the four hour trip talking about writing movie screen plays and I'm looking for information.

Think I'm gonna take my dog and my sunburn and head for the lake. It's been a HOT weekend.


Allein Mon Aug 14 17:06:49 PDT 2000

Rachel - I am sending my phone number via e-mail. It's probably good that we can't meet in Seattle because I don't have very much money. Labor day weekend is coming up - perhaps we could get together then. Or, maybe sometime before the 28th (that's when I start school). Darn school has a dress code too and I can't wear jeans. :(

Avatar Mon Aug 14 16:27:37 PDT 2000

Americo- what? I haven't warranted a part in your grand play? ;) that's okay. I can be a one-liner part. I'm never around often enough for serious practice.
I'll do the stage, I can do that.

Allein- Hum, this is very embarassing. I now am remembering that Gohan was named after his grandfather, Goku's adopted dad. The one who had the bad taste was whoever named him. I couldn't really see Chi-Chi naming him after rice in her right mind anyway.
A crabbit? Ohhhh, wait a minute! The name is Riyo-Oki (i don't think I spelled that right) I only remember it because it is reminiscent of Riyo-oko, the first woman Tenchi got dropped into his lap.

Yahel- No connection is there, except maybe between the molecules that bring the waves of sound from the mouth of one person to the ears of another. Or the sound waves themselves, by providing the momentum. You never know.

My scheduling I did at the end of the school year last year was conflicting and in no way resolved by now. I had to go in today and fix it, only to find the problem a bit more complicated than I had thought.
Here's the problem:
College Prep - 2nd and 3rd periods
Spanish 2- ditto
speech- 2 and 5th
economics- 2 and 4th

Addendums- 4 years of english must be taken. I'm planning on going to college. You've got to take 2 years of foreign language to get into an out of state college and it is recommended for in state colleges. Speech and Econ is required, but I have to take a 3rd year of math and Algebra 3 is only in for one hour and that has to be taken fifth.
All you puzzle there any way to avoid night school and yet graduate this year?
(every class mentioned is only served those periods or conflict with another class in another section. )

Notes from the attic- Where's Jon? I'm being overrun by rats and hamsters! Even if he doesn't want to save me, he might ask some of his friends to!
No offense meant, I might add.

Later all

Rhoda Mon Aug 14 16:08:41 PDT 2000

That's too hard!!!

Rhoda Mon Aug 14 16:06:54 PDT 2000


In deference to your wishes, I am thinking of some new provocative and fun subject to bring up. I do come upon those occassionally, but always unwittingly. When I try to hard, ideas dry up.


Debra J. Palardy Mon Aug 14 15:09:55 PDT 2000


Thank you deeply for the compliment. I hope I don't disappoint you.

Please don't cry!

Stay tuned things will pick up.


Americo Mon Aug 14 14:54:16 PDT 2000

Rachel leaves, Howard gets in, Rhoda salutes — we have here all the ingredients for a good play . Where is Heather, the great revelation of the first semester of the year 2000? Mark and Debra promise to become the revelations of the second semester. In the meantime, Allein belongs to the past and Eddie has been for a year just the ghost of Hamlet's father. He enters the stage and says "hello!". Then he goes to sleep till the next season.

Well, I would not like to ask Jon to give a hand to this great play. But someone must bring the light to the stage. I always found Summer a boring season. And I am really working hard. For a change, of course. Someone, make the time fly!
(He exits, crying).

PS. Howard: the book you said you sent a lot of time ago has not arrived yet. Are you sure the American Post still works?

Rhoda Mon Aug 14 11:35:04 PDT 2000

Hello everyone,

It is good to be back, but I am so hopelessly behind on the posts. It will take me at least two days to read through everything I've missed.

We found three great houses in the Tulsa area. We offered on one, but our offer was not accepted, so we now have to decide which of the other two to go after next. Ours is currently a decision between Owasso and Sand Springs area.

Two of my children started back to school today. The middle of August is way, way early considering that we have not had summer in its full glory until August. The public swimming pool is shut down and this neighborhood and this house feels so empty right now without the kids around. Still I suppose it is all for the best. The kids need the routein and so do I.

To be quite frank, I have been sheepish about participating on the Notebook because I have not acted much like a writer lately. I am now sitting at the computer trying to write something--anything. I suppose composing a post on the Notebook is not a bad start, but I have a project to finish, an article to write for September, and a new proposal to work out for November. I can't quite say that I have had writer's block. It is just that family concerns have taken up most of my time, energy and thought.


Glad to have you back. I hope you enjoyed your vacation.

Where is Rachel and Heather going? I will have to read the posts to find out. Just don't stay away too long!

Before I tackle the posts, I had better get to work and try to get some work done. I have been so barren with output lately, I feel almost guilty to be here.

Take care, all,


howard Mon Aug 14 10:03:35 PDT 2000

RACHEL -- As Priapus said to Pan -- "Have faun!"


Rachel Mon Aug 14 06:01:21 PDT 2000


I am just on my way out the door. I am excited (big smiles). I hope that we get lots of sun, not that it really matters. My children know that I'll jump in the water rain or shine. They love that.

See you in a few days.


I can't be lieve that I don't have your phone number. DRAT! We will have to think of some way to get together again.

All - Take care!

Americo Mon Aug 14 05:45:48 PDT 2000

Happy holidays, Rachel! Without you and soon without Heather the NB will not be the same. Time for the newbies to develop new strategies to make the NB an interesting place.

Debra J. Palardy Sun Aug 13 21:26:00 PDT 2000


By the way I didn't think that you were asking anything of me. I said never mind because I wasn't sure in which way Mink Me was meant.

Sure I jumped on the bandwagon for the first way but I wanted to be clear if it was a diffrent wagon that I had to get off the ride now.

Anyway thanks for your support. I do have writing I want to share in the workbook and I also have the logon and password I just havn't had time. In the meantime I just jump in here and usually turn in to some kind of goofball.



Rachel Sun Aug 13 21:07:49 PDT 2000

Allein - I am going to be leaving my home at about 6am tomorrow. If i don't find a phone number for you i will not be able to contact you. Your information is all on my old computer. that would be the computer that I can not get to go on (grrrrrrr). I will be dealing with that later. that beast has two years of writing on it. Sure some of it made it to disk, but lots is on there.

Americo - I am having fun with my iMac. I wish I had more time to play with it, but now I have to pack for vacation. I am so excited about my vacation. I love Cannon Beach. You would like it. It is nice and low (grins).

All - See yah later! Take care!

Lorraine - Hi you, welcome

Eddie - Nice to see yah again.

Rhoda Sun Aug 13 20:00:52 PDT 2000


I am here. I'll tell more later after hubby is finished with the computer.


Welcome back!

Jerry Ericsson Sun Aug 13 19:52:41 PDT 2000

Hi Lorraine - I have a sister named Lorraine, has nothing to do with anything, just thought I would throw that in. Welcome to our little home on the web, I know you will enjoy it here. I found this wonderful site well over a year now, and don't know where my writing would be without all these fine people. I am sure you will fit in just fine. Drop a note to Jack and get your password for the workbook, which is where we do our posting, and critic's also a neat place, and I find it very usefull.

Hi to everyone else, hope you all had a fine weekend, I know I did.

Write ON!

Jack Beslanwitch Sun Aug 13 18:15:50 PDT 2000

Hello all: Been catching up on personal crisis in the last several days. A friend of Fran and mine who is going into a surgery tomorrow has been on our minds. Her surgery has a 1 in 50 chance of death. Which meant will making time and some other discussions. Please keep her in your prayers.

Work has been interesting and dauting at times. Boring in others. Still, overall am looking forward to a long standing experience with

Also, our 9 year old hot tub sprung a leak. So, we have been out looking at new ones and considering the options of repair or replace.

Finally, per the request about the Novel Workshop. I have archived back to July 1st. This still leaves a 221 k file, but a lot better than the 640 k one that it replaces. Again, as I have the time and am able to hunt up a possible script, I will try to come up with something that will perhaps work as a clickable tree with each story being its own file and the critiques stored seperately as a sub directorey in the tree that people can look at. I do not have one as yet that works with the password protected area, but will keep my eyes open and hope to find a solution. Take care everyone.

Eddie French Sun Aug 13 16:33:30 PDT 2000

Hi Lorraine,
Yes, I remember that astonishing emotion!
When I found this site I too felt as if I had found home.
Doesn't always feel that way though.
When it doesn't, just relax, read what is happening and join in when it suits you.
Nobody is out to get you. Nobody ignores you purposely!
Just say it how it is and if you get a reply, or start a long discussion.. then that's a bonus.

Mark Sun Aug 13 16:33:27 PDT 2000

JESSICA -- short crit on novel in that crit page. Thanks.

Lorraine C O'Garro Sun Aug 13 15:45:42 PDT 2000

It is so refreshing to finally find a site that I have been searching for ever since I went live on the web. There seems to be so much your particular site offers and will offer to folks such as myself. I am an aspiring Sci-Fi author and have developed a few manuscripts over the past few years since my retirement from a Fed.job. I have always loved and cherished the written word and I'm now venturing to see my own words in print. I may never reach the height of some, but I plan on continuing writing as long as GOD allows me the ability to put my thoughts into words. The genre that I have chosen, comes from years of being a sci-fi buff! The wonder of the sci-fi creations of my youth have always fascinated me and now I have the time and the desire to create my own characters and develop wonderful stories. I hope to be an avid reader and participate fully in the varied groups that your site offers. Thank you for developing such a wonder opportunity for other's such as myself. I know I have started late in life, but that could never be a deterent for me, you are never to old to pursue a dream. Hoping to hear from others and to join some discussion groups. I have received some declinations on works I submitted at random, but these did not phase me, I will continue to write and hope to grow. I believe with the help of other writers I will. Thanks again.

eddiefrench Sun Aug 13 15:10:51 PDT 2000

That poem....Just thought I'd show it from the other side.

Eddie French Sun Aug 13 14:21:50 PDT 2000

Thanks for the welcome, humbling to say the least! It's nice to be remembered.
Very nice.
I received a poem by email just half an hour ago, it was from my five year old grandson.
You have to imagine this poem set out on an A4 sheet covered with shapes and colours - and fancy fonts.
here it is:

My grandad just loves the Simpsons
Especially BART

He’s always driving his rusty cart

He’s always mad

Not like my dad

What evers gonna happen next?

He’s gonna turn on the tele text!

A little artistic licence at the end there I think.
He meant mad as in Zany (I Hope!!!) He he!
His name is Ryan and he is the most gentle, polite, reserved, almost introvert little monster you would ever hope to meet.
I must take him out fishing for a weekend some time soon.
(I know you are not supposed to have favourites but....what the heck!!!!)

How are you old man?
Glad you remembered!
Thanks to you too buddy.
Hi There!!
Good evening to all you new faces.

Mark Sun Aug 13 12:01:32 PDT 2000

As an instructor I used to have days when I wanted to tell the class, "You are all wonderful and I love you dearly; however, there are times when you don't do your homework and I simply want to fold you over and spank your big behinds." Neither the beginning nor the end of that sentence is utterable in a college classroom.

I taught writing and literature at one college and two universities. I tried not to teach for content. That is, I made an effort to get sample readings from as wide a range of authors and viewpoints as I could. My whole 16-week point in an essay writing class was simply that writing works when the thoughts in it are organized. The essay is clearly the most organized piece of writing we see today, thus it was the front half of the semester. From there we moved to short stories and I'd sometimes toss in a week of poems.

Why a I telling you this? -- Yahel -- An interesting sparkmaker in this group. I have to credit well-organized writing when I see it. The philosophy and the sentiment are suspect, but the writing is done by someone who has spent some time working on the craft. In 'depth' as Debra put it, the work looks like it was done by a 19-year-old male freshman at a good university. He tosses together a good rhyme-and-meter poem more quickly than I could. That response to Litter was done chop-chop (to dredge up a phrase from the '50s).

YAHEL -- This one gets a B-

The poem shows its youth in two ways.
First -- The shifting sense of time and place in the speaker. The first stanza takes us quickly from "man" to "we" {a movement known as 'freshman grandiosity'}. There is also the grand historical movement through plagues and war in which the speaker participates as "we." But to view such major time-taking events is really beyond the lifescope of one participatory individual. The speaker here must then be beyond merely human.
Second -- Rhyme and Meter. Most kids come to college having seen rhyme and meter poetry in school and when they like it, they try to imitate it. One of the hardest lessons to learn is how to imitate and still have your own voice. I iterate here: look at some modern poets. Only kids still use those patterns for serious work.

The 'logic' of the piece intimates that to believe in God is to be a separatist. Unfortunately that may be true. More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason. I don't know of anyone killed in the name of Science, but there's little doubt that in the labs and classrooms of the world there are 'circles' of scientists who believe one way or another on issues. To join the faith of science is no more certain path to the truth than to join any other faith. Separatism lives also in the lab.

I have some trouble with the whole movement of the poem. From the overthrow of science to disregard of medicine, to idol worship, to war over idol belief, to awareness that science existed. Each point in itself has some merit, but the step from one to the next is questionable. While the speaker participates in it all (because of the 'We' stance), the speaker is yet above it all looking over an historic panorama. The speaker is inauthentic.

The aura of the whole thing is rather Republican (Plato's Republic, not the American polital party). This single voice that knows things better than the masses he describes. The Soviet Union called itself communist, but was in actuality the grandest experiment in republicanism ever conducted. A few highly placed people made decisions for everyone. The U.S. is properly called a democratic republic. We have many highly placed decision makers, but they are put there by a mainly democratic process. Add to that mix the freedom of our corporate citizens and then compare it all to the old USSR where even the decision on how many pairs of jeans to produce was determined by the central committee.

There's more to life than can be sensed or measured. Many enthusiastic freshmen have thought they could participate in the construction of the ultimate theory which would encompass all experience and explain this whole 'living' thing. They found themselves in Sisyphus' shoes (so to speak) with the goal always creeping slightly away.

Back to my original point about organization and the whole notebook audience, I used to do a two-class intro to rhetorical theory and classical rhetorical structure. We'd then go through six or seven weeks of examining essays by professional and amateur writers. In every class we could make a case for the pieces that worked to argue that they were organized in some way and the ones that did not work were noticeably disorganized. The ones that did not work often had, as Yahel's does, many good points contained within them. But a bunch of nice lights does not make a traffic signal. At the end of a semester of reading essays, short stories and some poetry, my classes could take a piece of unfamiliar writing and critique it for sense and structure.

Good writing is good because it makes order out of chaos. In a freshman sort of way, Yahel makes order but argues for chaos.

Do these long posts belong elsewhere?

Debra J. Palardy Sun Aug 13 09:53:56 PDT 2000


I give credit where credit is due. I think that you deserve it. It's somethig you are interested in and know about and seem to be able to hold you own on. So consider your account credited.


Thank you for saying that. I always feel alone when I go out on a limb like that and say that I don’t get something.

What does that mean Mink Me? Does it mean to give me a beautiful fur? Because if it does, don’t out think me Mink Me will be my new motto. Don’t out think me, Mink Me, Mink Me, Mink Me. That’s me singing. Do you think that there is a connection between the fact that it feels so nice and looks so beautiful gently flowing in the breeze next to my face, that I love it so much? I think there is. How about the fact that I also would love a six-carat, flawless, diamond tennis bracket to go with it? Do you think that there is a connection there too? I think there is. Do you think that the fact that there are four children still living in the house and only one income, with some phantom income possible coming soon from a teen guide but not here yet, is the reason that I don’t have these things? I think there is.

What are you looking at I meant one the minks that is already a coat and not killing more minks. There is no sense wasting it. Stop looking at me! Look at Yahel. He’s the one who doesn’t think that there’s a connection between my beautiful coat and the fact that minks are dead. Right Yahel? Yahel work with me here. Yahel, my spell checker wants to change your name to Yahoo.

GS, if that is not what it means and it really means something of a sexual nature, never mind. Because there is a direct connection between never mind, and the fact that I am a happily married woman. I’ve got the poem to prove it.


Rachel Sun Aug 13 09:36:17 PDT 2000


Hi you! My iMac is indigo in colour. I think that it is very pretty (grins).

I am still getting used to things. Like for instance i don't have a clue how to get to my regular e-mail box. I know that it will be very easy, i just don't have any time right now (sighs).

last night my daughter and i went to a concert. Today is the family gathering, followed by packing, packing and pakcing. By 6am tomorrow i want to be on the road.

Allein - Could you e-mail me your phone number and at the above e-mail. We are not sure what day we will be returning from oregon, so i will need to call you when our plans firm up.

We will be in Seattle some time between the 19 and 23. I'm just not sure what date. If you could meet us in the city that would be GREAT! I talked to Dan and if you needed to be picked up and returned the to Ferry that woul be no problem.

Now my children have closed in on me. they want to play games on the nifty new computer (this mac rocks)! It can use all of the games that we put on the PC. Only difference is that it doesn't crash. I'm loving this.

Jerry Ericsson Sun Aug 13 08:48:56 PDT 2000

Teekay - WELCOME HOME! We have missed you.

Mary - Shame on you lurking in the shadows, I am sure you have much to contribute.

Americo - Hope your vacation has re - created you as much as my short one did me.

Write ON!


Mary Sun Aug 13 05:29:03 PDT 2000

greetings all!

i lurk in the shadows....(little wave to teekay..grins)

nothing valuable to i

however, i have a very dear friend who teaches philosophy at a university and i plan on asking him about this free will discussion. he usually just grins at my take on things, but i wonder what he would say to yahel. i havent had time to catch up on all the posts, but i want to say hi to everyone and welcome back to all the people returning.


howard htuckey! Sun Aug 13 05:09:22 PDT 2000

Our cable -- which includes RoadRunner -- was out all day yesterday, so I didn't get online at all.

MARK -- no riddle, I just left out the 'great' in Great-grampa. Isaac loved both dearly. He was five years old when my wife's father died at 85. One Saturday the following winter I came home from work during a heavy snow storm and found my wife and kids out clearing the driveway. She took me out back and showed me something that brought tears to my eyes. There was a pathway shovelled through the 3 feet deep snow, straight from the back steps to great-grampa's shop, just the way that Grampa always did it. Isaac had done the whole thing by himself.
Now, out in that shop, is one of Isaac's proudest posessions. It's one of grampa's hand made tool boxes, with some of his tools inside.

This philosophy discussion has gotten interestinger and interetinger! I'm just starting a book by Donald W McCullough, titled "The Trivialization of God -- the Dangerous Illusion of a Manageable Deity." So far it's excellent.

I read Jonathon Edwards' "Sinners..." when I was 12 or 13, and it still is a part of what makes up my conscience.

Gotta go get ready for church... more later


Teekay Sun Aug 13 02:59:33 PDT 2000

Hello all,

I never intended to be away so long and now everything feels so strange.
Where have all the old folk gone?
Maybe I need to go and watch a few more episodes of bananas in pajamas (a kids show about 2 bananas and their 3 teddy friends and a rat in a hat), then again, maybe not.

AMERICO: So glad you are back, though I didn't miss you much as I wasn't here myself.
I have done my own personal pilgrimage to the kitchen sink and back. It's where you really get to know your soul for there is nothing much else of interest to dwell on there.

HALLEE: I thinks it's lovely that strawberries will forever remind you of your Grandfather. I am sorry to hear of your loss.

RHODA, MARY, Where are you both?

I have been extremely negligent with my writing. It's still whirling around in my head, but I'm just finding it difficult now to actually put it down on paper.

Och well me lassies and laddies I shall bid you all good night and God bless and I hope to see you on the morrow.

My kitchen is such a mess, I'm sooooo depressed about it.

Yahel Sun Aug 13 00:16:41 PDT 2000

Debra - You are giving me way too much credit. I didn't invent the philosophies I’m posting.

Gariess Sat Aug 12 23:24:18 PDT 2000


I think you are right for the song on the Diana Krall album called, Peel Me a Grape. In one line it goes. "...Never out-think me. Just mink me."

This philosophy kick is so losing me, now. Somebody shoots a gun at a guy but that doesn't have anything to do with blowing the guys head off when the bullet passes through his gourd. It's all a philosophical misunderstanding. I'm out. I like abstract thought as much as the next guy, but it can get to be too much when left unchecked.


Debra J. Palardy Sat Aug 12 20:04:53 PDT 2000


You are so deep. How can I respond to you? I feel that you are so far from the way I see things. In my world it is simple. I try to be kind to people and hope for the same in return. When I hear someone shout I don't wonder about such deep things. I just answer him if he is talking to me. I'm sure you are kind too. I just know you are looking at the situation with different eyes.

I really liked your poem. I also like the way you think. I just feel I have nothing to give you in return that I think you might find value in.

That is why I try to be funny. That is my hope you might enjoy a laugh if I cannot out think you. I don't think I am dumb. I just think that my mind doesn't work the same way yours does.

I'm hoping I still like philosophy when you are done with me.


Jerry Ericsson Sat Aug 12 15:38:29 PDT 2000

Just thought I would post the above webpage again, it is the latest version of Project Guttenburg - a collection of books online that you can download and read at your leisure.


Yahel Sat Aug 12 13:55:48 PDT 2000

Litter - I enjoyed the poem very much! Here is my reply:

Universal Plan – Part 2

So man turned to god again
Each one to one’s own doll
We need to know the truth from god
Science is no good at all.

No more laws of physics
We broke loose of those cages
The doll’s the only ruler now
We’re back in the dark ages.

A horrible plague arrives
But there’s still a sunshine’s ray
We don’t need physicians’ cure
We all should kneel and pray

And when the prayer fails
We have to satisfy god’s lust
The altar’s ready, the girl is tied
To sacrifice, we must

The doll made us we know!
The earth is flat not round
The sun moves in the sky
The world is safe and sound

But what are those men out there?
They’re worshiping a different god!
Don’t they know our holy doll?
Truly that is very odd

So we fight the holy war
Millions die in our lord’s name
We slaughter and we spill our blood
But never feel the slightest shame

The holy war goes on and on
But we obey our doll in silence
God is our father, he knows it all
Our ancestors were fools who believed in science.

Philosophy - How do we perceive the world? The answer is simple, with our senses. We can hear, see, taste, touch and smell. Everything we know about the world comes through our senses. When we see someone shouting, and then we hear his shout, we sense the person shouting through our sense of seeing. We sense the shout through our sense of hearing. But we don’t sense a connection between the two. We only assume it exists. Therefor a world that has no connections whatsoever is absolutely possible. Even if we hear a shout every time a person shouts, it doesn’t prove a connection between the two. It could be a coincidence.

Americo Sat Aug 12 09:24:47 PDT 2000


An iMac?! How wonderful! What colour? Hope you have all the applications to start working with it. You are probably so used to a PC that it will take you some time to understand that now you have a computer at last... Just click on every colourful spot you find and everything will work fine. You can also drag and drop and do the most wonderful things with your Macintosh, a computer for elegant and sophisticated people like yourself (or me...) The best thing America has produced since Marilyn Monroe.

Americo Sat Aug 12 09:16:32 PDT 2000

Good morning, everybody!

I'm enthusiastically writing an essay on "Idealization and Reality" (or some such title) and become rich&famous when I win this great literary contest by the end of the year (you have no doubts I'll win it, do you?). But I wanted to say good morning to all the denizens of this elegant sea of civilization and good taste Jack created on a day like this, all sun and roses. So good morning and happy day.

Jerry Ericsson Sat Aug 12 08:42:54 PDT 2000

My Grandson remembers his Granpas - both are gone now -
By Grandma


Rachel Sat Aug 12 08:40:56 PDT 2000

Americo!!!! Wecome home. Hugs and kisses right back at you.

My computer died the other day. I am sure it can be fixed but at the time it packed it in i didn't feel like even thinking about it. I felt like drop kicking the thing down the cliff behind my home. Instead i went to the store and got myself a nice new iMac. I think I'm going to like it. So far when i turn it on it works! that is a very nice change.

To anyone who has sent me e-mail -- I'll get back to you just as soon as i sort out how to get to my e-mail (grins).

AGAIN AMERICO - Welcome back!

Take care all


Debra Sat Aug 12 08:26:59 PDT 2000


I get the feeling that you might be the natural mother of EJ you know what I mean, not just a mother figure. I don't have time to read over all the previous posts. I have a bunch of kids myself. Anyway it sounds like something is really wrong with her.

Maybe instead of going to Maine you could just see a doctor of some kind first just to be safe. I know some people hate doctors believe me I could. I don't. I really think that there are a lot of great doctors out there.

If you're her mother and you sound like your are, then you know best and have the last word. As a mother, sometimes I need people to point out to me that I am not seeing and yet is right in front of me.

I wish you both the best of health and happiness.

Doctors are not all bad. How could that be true?


Debra J. Palardy Sat Aug 12 08:09:57 PDT 2000

Of course I'm left wondering that the fact that you wrote it and I read it doesn't really mean that I actually saw it.

Or does it?

That's philosophy sarcasm!


Debra J. Palardy Sat Aug 12 08:06:55 PDT 2000



It's beautiful and deep. That's a double wammy.

I was left wanting more at the end.

I understand that maybe we only use 10% of our brains.

Maybe someday when God lets use more, then we won't have so many questions. Just a thought. Just a question.

I loved it!


Robi Sat Aug 12 04:48:39 PDT 2000

And a good morning to you all!
Glad to see the summer heat isn't taking it's toll on any of you. I'm off for the week, I should be back Thursday evening or so. Just didn't want you to worry not seeing my lovely posts around for a few days. I'm taking Emily Jane to Maine to get her out of the City, I'm worried about her. In the four weeks she's lost over 35 lbs, (a lot for a tiny girl like EJ, at least I think so,) she's very pale and her body is shaking, like she's constantly waiting for something bad to happen. Martin says she hasn't been sleeping and if she does get some sleep, she has these strange feverish nightmares. As you can see, I am really concerned about her and I know her writing is suffering beacuse of this, so I feel a change of scenery is perfect.
I just wanted to let you all know. Maine a waits Emily Jane and me.
Much love, the crazy ranting and raving old woman,


Litter Sat Aug 12 03:14:28 PDT 2000

Hi All,

This has the 'G' word in it but it is not intended to spark any further debate in that area, rather it is my own musings as to the eternal quest for answers and mankind's arrogance.

Ladies -- I use the term 'man' as meaning mankind. Please do not pillory me as mankind/womankind/personkind do not fit the format. Ta!

Universal Plan

"From a Singularity", man said,
The Universe began,
But he overlooks the catalyst
For this great celestial plan.

Was it not man that once decreed:
He knew a deeper truth?
And, by the fruits of his research,
He would divine the proof.

Man found the smallest particle:
'The Atom!' - he declared.
God smiled and gave him something
For which he was not prepared.

Electron and nucleus,
Man found were smaller still:
Before God, grinning wider now,
Resolved to test man's will.

Particles seemed to multiply,
Before man's very eyes:
Neutrinos, positrons, and quarks;
And more, to his surprise.

God laughed at mankind's arrogance,
Knowing soon that he would send
Man stumbling, blindly, led by pride,
To find his last dead-end.

Man said there wasn't anything,
Pre - time's explosive dawn,
Before the 'Singularity' from which
The Universe was borne.

God laughed and then he laughed again,
He watched man squirm and frown,
When he got near to the dawn of time,
And the laws of science broke down.

And then, in His compassion,
God thought to ease man's pain,
So man, in finding greater truth,
Would turn to Him again.

© LitterAli August 2000

Jessica Sat Aug 12 00:13:44 PDT 2000

By the way, My first two chapters are posted in the Novel section of the workbook, The begining is edited, and there has been slight modifacations throughout, but I want people's opinions. So, if you feel like it, read and critique me.

Jessica Fri Aug 11 22:48:14 PDT 2000

Yahel: I didn't take any offense. It is realy hard to offend people like me, Anyways, I can't realy offer any thing on your latest philosophy, I have limited philosophies, I'm young yet, and have lots to learn still.

Heather Fri Aug 11 22:30:22 PDT 2000

FOR THE LOVE OF (#$&)#*&%_!
I lost a most amusing post.
Maybe it wasn't that funny.

Here's a jigglicon, just to remind you of your mountain trip: /\/\
And the poem.

AND EDDIE! I WAS WORRIED FOR A FEW MONTHS THERE... Glad to see you back again.

Yahel: Old maxim: MIND OVER MATTER.
Thoughts have no physical presence. The atoms that make up the neurons vibrate during the distribution of brain waves, but this is only in response to thought. It is not thought in and of itself. We may find a molecular body responsible for 'thought' someday, if there is one.

Another humdinger: God is often said to be 'Universal Mind'. Or the One Mind, in some religions. (Hence, Master Mind, a really cool game ha ha ha) Some of the basis of religious thought stem from the idea that God is a Divine Vibration (Thought itself?) We haven't been able to put our finger on what that is, exactly. Divine Intelligence: The First Wonder of the Universe.

The second Wonder is Light. God is also thought to be Light itself. So thought and Light are equated. Then there's Love. Herein we find a trinity, not unlike the trinity of Father, Son, Holy Ghost. Which would you ascribe to whom?
Father=Divine Intelligence, Holy Ghost=Light, Son=Love?

Photons have no physical form, yet they exist.
They are light. Thought, though not physical in a molecular sense, has power in reality and in our physical world. Love has no physical basis, yet does have physical reality, and
holds physical and emotional power. As well as spiritual, of course.
So, what does this mean? Perhaps the Biblical scribes attempted to simplify this concept and used the Trinity as the central theme.

Now wait a minute... how did this get to religion again?

Oh, nevermind.

Yahel, feel free to ignore that jargon.

Jerry, by the way, a pat on the back (very lightly, in case I jar you) for all of your dedication and hard work in policing. Enjoyed the story about the cowboy. VERY COOL.

Robi, hello. I didn't really enjoy the piece about night, and felt it did not lead anywhere. Might be that I find comfort and awe in the night, and under the gargantuan canopy of stars I feel an expansion of the mind. I don't find it suffocating or creepy at all.
The piece has no middle or ending. I found the redundancy created a feeling of impatience in me. I did like some of the description, but could not picture anything in my mind as I read. It is not a bad start at all, if the piece were heading somewhere, and he hasn't finished writing it.
Tell your brother to keep writing, and to visualize where he aims to go in his mind while he guides the character along. Focus. That's it.

Jerry - added a bookmark to the Coffeehouse pages. Think I just might give it a shot. (the contest, that is)

Well, to all a good night,
and merry scribbles too.

Muse, light your fuse and be ON with you!

Jerry Ericsson Fri Aug 11 20:25:48 PDT 2000

Must be old home week, Howard is back, (Welcome back Howard)
Americo is back (Welcome back Americo)
Eddy French has graced our notebook with his presence (Welcome Back Eddy) Nice to read you all again.


Mark Fri Aug 11 19:58:41 PDT 2000

HOWARD -- welcome back. You've set us a riddle. Intentionally?

{cut}{paste}My grandson remembers his grandpas -- both gone now --
Uh. lemmeeseenow. Your grandson's grandpas ( that would include you ) are both GONE. Uh. lemmeeseenow. Your grandson's grandpas ( that would include you ) are BOTH gone. I must be missing something here. You can't be among the gone, here you are, back.

By-the-by, you didn't read a lot of Notebook archive stuff on returning, did you? Didn't run through some stuff about inkblot tests and such. Hmm? Uh, no. No reason.

Debra J. Palardy Fri Aug 11 19:19:21 PDT 2000



The fact that I shouted doesn't have anything to do with hearing a shout.

How about this?

If a man speaks and there is no woman there to hear him,

is he still wrong?

For the love of pete!!
It's only a joke. I love men.

Have people actually argued over that? If they have, do the people whom agree explain how they got the information to agree in the fist place. I mean sure people said it but does that really mean the the others heard it? The minute they agree they are proving that it's wrong, right?

Is this multiple choice? How much time do I have?

I'm sorry Yahel. I've got nothing!


Americo Fri Aug 11 17:24:32 PDT 2000

I've just come back from the mountains. I had no idea the earth could be so frightening at the tops. They reminded me of a poem by Baudelaire, "The Giant Woman":

"Du temps que la nature en sa verve puissante
concevait chaque jours des enfants monstrueux..."

I'm a man from the plains, born by the sea, and I missed it.

I had a look at a fortnight of posts. Some people have given vent to rather basic instincts. They reminded me of the same poem by Baudelaire I recited on the mountains. Perhaps Jon should give an adequate speech to the Empire. But he is tired. And so am I.

Hugs and kisses to Rachel, Heather, Christi, Allein, Arik, Howard, Teekay, Jerry Ericsson, Rhoda, Eddie, hard-working Jack and all the others, as loved as the mentioned ones. And please do not hurt anybody tonight.

Debra J. Palardy Fri Aug 11 17:23:17 PDT 2000


OOOOOOOOH thank you! I was lost. Okay, now I am forming a picture. Well first, thanks for saying that I wrote a line that you couldn't resist. That's a winner.

Anyway, whenever we have a cricket in the house, my husband will hunt it(him) down. I won't let him kill it because I always tell him it's Jiminiy Cricket. He's a him. You're probably right about the laying eggs part. My husband has said more than once he wouldn't want the responsibity of popping out a baby. He's pretty sure we would have been childless forever.

Thanks for clearing that up.


Rosemary Fri Aug 11 17:03:04 PDT 2000

Hello again all,

You wrote:

I love the story. I really like crickets. I am a woman and hate bugs. I don't hate crickets. I won't let my husband even shoooo him out. They are all hims, right?
That last line hit me just right and I couldn't resist. My comment was irrevelant (or irreverant) and probably I misunderstood the whole thing.

Jerry Ericsson Fri Aug 11 14:29:53 PDT 2000

Debra, don't think so, but not sure. I did, I gues I haven't seen one that does, but there could always be a first. I found the site yesterday myself on the Writers Digest 101 best writers web sites.


Debra Fri Aug 11 14:12:26 PDT 2000


Thank you!

If I subscribe to that fiction newsletter, does it cost me money?

I figure important info like that and the word subscribe I should ask before I send and e-mail.


Jerry Ericsson Fri Aug 11 13:44:04 PDT 2000

Debra - they say 2000 words or less. They have it all layed out, what format were your name and address should be and so forth on their web page.


Debra J. Palardy Fri Aug 11 13:32:27 PDT 2000

Hi Jerry:

Thank you!

My husband has said that he was always kidding about wondering where his real present was. He just can't help himself.

He said that he has never lost or shrunk or forgotten about that gift. So that must be a good thing. He said even if he lost the paper which it was written on he can never lose the words. So good poetry or bad it is long lasting.

I hope your wife writes the most beautiful poem ever written this year.

Also, how long should the short story be? I just happen to have one lying around on my hard drive as well.


Jerry Ericsson Fri Aug 11 13:13:26 PDT 2000

Debra - forgot to mention, I would love to have my wife write me a poem for our anniversery, which by the way is next Tuesday, it will be our thirty-first.


Jerry A.G. Ericsson Fri Aug 11 12:52:49 PDT 2000

Debra - your welcome. Guess nobody has ever put it to me like that.

The webpage address above is for the coffee house for writers. They are having a short story contest - any writer can submit one story. No entry fee or anything, seems legit. Give it a shot, I submitted one of my older stories I had laying around on my hard drive.

Write On.


Debra Fri Aug 11 12:38:23 PDT 2000


Thanks for saying that. Although, after my husband got comfortable with our marriage, he has said a few times he was wondering where the real present was! Nice. I still love the big lug. I'm not a poet and I know it. I'm fine with it. I just hope someday I will be a writer.


Christi Fri Aug 11 12:37:10 PDT 2000

Notebook getting very full, must keep short. Americo on vacation. Rhoda in process of moving. Cushing . . . no word on.
Welcome back, Ed!

Christi Fri Aug 11 12:32:40 PDT 2000

Congrats! Well, at least it's only one more year of school. Better than four more, no?

Here's my philosophy: Life is like a box of chocolates. (Is that a groan I hear?) By the time you get the box, someone has gone through and picked out all your favorites, and some rude sloth of a person has taken a wee bite out of each of the remaining chocolates, leaving you to decide if you want the ones with the strange orangy filling or the ones with the white filling, which could be coconut creme--could be marshmallow. Personally, I like the ones with the nuts.

I loved your story about the cowboy. It made me smile. It's nice to hear something positive once in a while.

Interesting paragraphs, but I don't think I'd classify this as a story. I liked it though, just not sure how I'd categorize it. Look at me, so nasty and human, trying to put a label on everything! Brother.

Your poem to your husband was very sweet. I shared a poem I wrote to my husband here as well, so don't feel foolish.

Oh Hallee, I'm so very sorry to hear that your grandfather has passed. I loved what you said about the strawberries and what you said about your daughter. He will know his great-grandfather through your stories of him. My thoughts are with you and your family.

Hi Litter!

What an awesome memory to have about your grampa. He sounds as if he was an amazing man.

Tina, Robi, EVERYONE! Stop it! All these memories are sapping the sarcasm right out of me! Thank you everyone, for giving us your memories. They won't be forgotten.



PS My grandfather: He is still with us, though he does have bladder cancer, which makes his time with us limited, we know.
He was the original bar room cowboy--still wears a bolo tie every day, and dresses to the nines. He was a champion pool and chess player, and sneaked out of the house when we visited to have a smoke on the sly. He drank a six pack of beer a day (not good beer), but never seemed affected by it. He still loves to grab us and rub his rough whiskers against our cheeks, making us screech out loud. He loves his kids, grandkids, and his one great-grandchild more than words can say. I think he has stuck it out this long so he could see his first great-grandchild be born, and now he can't imagine missing out on watching him grow up.
You know what? I need to go and visit my grandpa!

Eddie French Fri Aug 11 12:16:08 PDT 2000

Why hello all you newbie type people!!
I go away for a little while and what happens?
You all get involved in my very very very favourite subject!
Ohhh boy....
The meaning of life, Free will, The first few nano seconds of the life of the universe!!!!!
Ah well, missed it this time, no sense in dragging it all out again.
I do have a few ideas though........What about Super acceleration during the first......Nahhhh, save it for another day eh?
Anybody heard from Cushing, or Americo, or Rhoda???
Welcome welcome welcome, all you new (Faces)??
New blood, Oh yeah, just what this place needed.
See you all soon.

Allein Fri Aug 11 10:06:51 PDT 2000

Avatar - I think Gohan's mom did a little drinking in her time. A vampile is half vampire/half human. I watch Tenchi Muyo too - it's really cool. I like the little Cabbit (I always forget it's name though).
I'm off for the weekend,

Tina Fri Aug 11 09:25:07 PDT 2000


Just a thought. The novel workbook seems to be getting bulky. I know there's a bunch of old drafts I posted there that could go. Anyone else think Jack should clear some of it?


Robi Fri Aug 11 08:36:47 PDT 2000

The person who wrote "The Night" was my older brother Michael, whose birthday is tomarrow.

Hallee, If you don't mind another grandfather story I have one to share. My thoughts are with you, I lit a candle in St. Mary's this morning after reading your post.

My parents divorced when my mother was pregnant with me, and my older brother was three. We grew up half a mile from my grandfather and his wife. His wife and he had been together since my brother was a very small baby, and she was the only 'grandmother' I really knew. My dad lived an hour away in the city, but we spent every weekend with him.
My mother wasn't around very much, too many boy friends, too many bars, too much life to live with out two small children. My grandfather refused to get us a babysitter, part of living so close to each other was that he could help take care of me. He loved pizza, ice cream, and carnivals, and he raised Michael and I with the help of my father. He took us back and forth to my fathers and I got the chance to be raised by two of the best men.
My mother 'got her life together' when my brother and I were in high school, but by that time, my grandfather had taken over the role of our parent.
Michael got accepted to Colorado State, on the other side of the country from where we grew up. He went off to school and I finished high school. My grandfather always said, if we made it into a certain school, or needed a certain thing, he'd find a way to pay for it.
I got accepted to Harvard and moved to Camridge. My father moved to Boston, to be closer to me. Once I got off to school, my grandfather stopped paying for the house my mother lived in. My mother was forced to take care of herself, she didn't have anyone to pay for things for her.
Michael graduated and became a comercial airline piolet.
I got a job back in Washington D.C., writing for the Post. Michael died on his way to meet up with his girl friend in California.
At the funeral, my grandfather kept us all together just by giving us his hand to hold. My mother showed up, late, and left early. I didn't see her after that. I went to her funeral years later with my grandfather and my father.
You have to remember that I am ancient, and when my grandfather died I felt lost in the world. My father had moved to New York City for work, and I came here. And have been here ever since.
Every year on his birthday, I go to the National Gallery of Art in Washington D.C. because he took me to that museum at least three times a year when I was growing up.
My father is still very much alive, and he lives about five blocks from me. In fact, I think I'm going to go over there and see if I can help out, (he owns an art supply store.)
Thank you to everyone for listening to my babbling story.

Your crazy ranting and raving ancient woman,


Jerry Ericsson Fri Aug 11 08:30:12 PDT 2000

Yahel - - if you had not have shouted, I would not have heard it. Must be some connection there. Every action has an opposite and equal reaction-or so they told me in school. Therefore all actions must have an effect on those reactions. The fact that I fire the gun has a absolute connection to the fact that the deer falls dead from the bullet that came from the barrel of that gun.


Debra Fri Aug 11 07:52:26 PDT 2000


I really enjoyed the talk of freewill. Although I think I am a little out of my league with all you smart people.

Here is what I really think. I think that our spirits live inside of our physical bodies. I think that they don't fit any of the physical details you all were talking about, nothing micro or macro. I think that whatever it is that makes up us, is what makes us chose what we chose. We are free to do so. We use our boides a a vheicle. Our spirits are not bound, simply not bound by any thesies or theory that we can understand at this point. There is not a package of paper stuck in a filing cabinet somewhere on some campus with those answers.

Mind, body, spirit. Three things. Seperate.


I don't think that law enforcement is rough or cold. I thank God everyday for the fine people whom do that job. So today I thank you too.


howard Fri Aug 11 06:51:55 PDT 2000


I'm sorry to hear of your loss, but we can rejoice in your confidence as well.

Grandpas are special -- I vaguely remember my great grandfather, and I only had my maternal grandpa to look up to, as my father's father ran off the week after dad was born, and we never saw him. I did just recently find out that dad had a half-brother that we've never met, who lives about 50 miles from here. I'll meet him soon, I hope -- he's only about 15 years older than I.

My grandson remembers his grandpas -- both gone now -- and still has breakfast "just like grampa Leet."

My one real goal on life is to be the man my grandkids think I am.

I agree with Mark on the strawberry account. That was more special than you know.


Yahel Fri Aug 11 04:11:57 PDT 2000

Heather – “What's to say that the atoms don't just fly off into space? For that is a probability too”. True, but the probability of that happening is so small, we can assume it doesn’t exist. “and it is still just a theory - I haven't found one yet that explains EVERYTHING”. Also true, but we must use what we do have. Keep this in mind: Thought is also made by atoms.

Jerry – I like the example.

Jessica – I hope I didn’t offend you. That was not my intent. Everybody has their own philosophy in life, and they don’t have to support it.

Litter – Note Einstein’s quote against that idea: “Can we really believe the moon is not there when we aren’t looking at it?”. Einstein’s relativity can’t explain the micro world, and Quantum Mechanics can’t explain the macro world. The theories also contradict one another. As I write there are attempts to create the Unified Theory.

Avatar – Yes I am.

Philosophy – Next claim: There is no connection between events. The fact that I shouted doesn’t have anything to do with the fact you heard a shout.

Hallee Fri Aug 11 01:25:49 PDT 2000

Thank you, everyone. And I am so glad that I was able to give everyone the opportunity to remember their grandparents. What special people they are.

This is the first person I've ever lost. I even still have a great-grandma living, though last year when I saw her, she wasn't quite sure who I was. But she faked it pretty well. And she loved my daughter. At the time, she was 2, and required nothing more from my grandma than to have someone to babble with or help her with the buttons on the dolls' dresses. They got along perfectly.

I'm sure that if I was with the rest of the family, I might be a little more upset. The times I tear up are, aside from reading all of your stories, when I think of my grandma. But, my grandpa was a very strong Christian. I know where he is and how he's doing. If I could talk to him, he'd say, "I love you, I miss you, I'm sorry the family is hurting, but I don't want to come back." So, I'm hoping that's the reason that I'm not a mass of tears.

My little brother woke up yesterday morning with the desire to listen to Hank Williams, Sr. He dug through my parents' CD's and found this song, listened to it, and knew when the phone rang that my grandpa had passed:

I saw the light
I saw the light
No more darkness
No more night
Just like a blind man
that God gave back his sight
Praise the Lord!
I saw the light

Thanks again, guys. All of you are great.


Tina Thu Aug 10 23:29:43 PDT 2000

Laura, I just sent you a crit on chapter 4. Let me know if it doesn't get there, 'cause my e-mail's been un-cooperative lately.

My grandpa used to plant peas throughout the summer, just so that there'd always be peas to pick when the grandkids were visiting the farm. He'd take me out to pick peas, and we'd eat as many as made it to the bucket. To this day, I consider peas fresh off the vine to be food of the Gods. He had a scratchy beard that always rubbed my face when he hugged me. He sharpened his knife every single night, sitting at the kitchen table with his whetstone and honing a perfect edge, and the way his hands moved always fascinated me.

Thanks everyone for the memories.


Jerry Ericsson Thu Aug 10 21:31:46 PDT 2000

Cops are cold, hard, jaded right. Not so, I get misty eyed when one of our pets pass on. Can't help shedding a tear at funerals of friends and relatives. Nothing wrong with crying when one you love pass away. My own grandfather passed from this world when I was but six years old. I hold a memory of that day in my mind, as clearly as if it happened yesterday. His was the first funeral I ever attended. I still remember him bouncing me on his knee singing bumpty lumpty, the smell of his pipe, the way he told all us grand kids that we were the bests damn grandchildren that ever walked on gods green earth. I was always afraid to go back to his house after he died. Grandma moved in with us, and the house was left sitting to fall apart on their farm, the land sold and money spent on the care of Grandmother as she grew old.


Avatar Thu Aug 10 21:00:20 PDT 2000

*Growl* wipe-wipe-wipe squeeeak, nudge, nudge *peer*
Okay, my glasses are clean.

Allein- WOOOHOOO!!!!!!!!!!! CONGRADS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S. I watch DBZ when I can, a new anime show on cartoon network called Tenchi Muyo!(theme? Love stinks), and Digimon. Never really got into sailor moon and did see one episode of Vampire Hunter D. A bit bloody for me (I was raised in a home where R-rated movies were nonexistant) but the plot was good. Is there an actual description for a vamphile? I never found one, and I really do want to know what they are. Would you happen to know?
Rice? Poor Gohan. Don't tell him though, he might get ticked off. Wait, no, he only does that when his friends get hurt. What was his mother thinking?
(I don't think Goku had anything to do with that decision ;)

Notes from the attic- found an old relic the other day, only because I was looking for it. Copy of that food fight short I did for the notebook. Tee hee! French bread that can kill you!

Yahel- Are you from israel? Philosophy is not my strong point (I don't want anyone to crack mine) but every once in a while the juices get flowing. I might jump in on a discussion, you never know...

Robi- Night is what you make of it. Sometimes, the night for me is cold, uncaring, harsh. Sometimes, it is as you said, warm, deep for those who understand it. Whatever it is, your writing is good.

Sasquatch- I tend to believe that the soul resides in every fiber that is woven into my being. When the body is stilled long enough, wonder over things that you would normally miss can be there. I pray sometimes that I never lose the simple awe that can live with the sight of an ent.

Hallee- My grandfather died a while ago. I didn't cry. I didn't want to, wanted to remain implacable in the face of grief. Now, I'm not so sure that I did the right thing. A small knot of unrelieved grief will always be with me I think. So I send this gentle thought to you- don't be afraid to cry.
My prayers go with you

Two roads diverged...
-Robert Frost

You sometimes cannot choose your path. What you make of it, however, is a road you can always move down.

Later all

Jerry Ericsson Thu Aug 10 20:13:15 PDT 2000

Mark, thanks much that is exactly what I was looking for. Like I said, it was a bit rough but sitting back here in the heat, reading it over, I missed those things.


Mark Thu Aug 10 20:00:00 PDT 2000

Jerry -- crit on the appropriate page. Thanks.

Mark Thu Aug 10 19:00:48 PDT 2000

HALLEE -- My grampa died when I was five. I'm told that among the Irish it was traditional for sons to stay single until later in life. It may be true and may have been the case with him, he didn't marry until his parents had passed away and he inherited the house. I think the 'tradition' was a matter of economic necessity among the poor Irish. At 50 he married a 25-year-old woman and began a family. My mother was the oldest of ten.
Such an arrangement has, of course, benefits and drawbacks. On the benefit side, he was a mature man when his children were growing. On the drawbacks, of all his grandchildren, I was the only one he ever met. And his youngest daughter was 15 when I was 5.
An old railroad worker, he was the first up in the house and I was second. Grampa used to make me a breakfast just like his. We had Wheaties for breakfast with coffee poured over them. I'm sure now that I had more milk and sugar on my cereal than coffee, but at that time I believed Grampa and I had the same breakfast and it was wonderful that he would make it for me.
Memories of such moments help make the trailing days more meaningful. I feel that your note about the strawberries was rewarding, meaningful, and eloquent. Thanks.

Tina Thu Aug 10 18:11:55 PDT 2000

Hallee, here are my thoughts and condolences.
I don't know how old your daughter is, but I'm sure she'll remember him. My grandpa died when I was 5, and I remember him so well. Not the same as I remember people from later in my life, but as an emotion and feeling of love.


t Thu Aug 10 18:00:20 PDT 2000

Debra J. Palardy Thu Aug 10 17:27:42 PDT 2000


Am I D.J.P? I must be. So if I am, I'm curous what did I say? I forget. Help me out! I'm sure you're right. I just don't remember what it is with the hims.


Litter Thu Aug 10 17:01:43 PDT 2000


My condolences, thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

Litter Thu Aug 10 16:59:22 PDT 2000

Hey Everybody!

Yahel -- kudos for your exposition of quantum theory. Unfortunately quantum mechanics can predict lots of fun things but tends not to give too accurate an account of the macro world -- otherwise we would all be spontaneously disintegrating and recombining in (potentially) exciting ways :o)

Now a warning -- NOTICE TO READERS:

Because of the ‘Uncertainty Principle’ It is impossible for the reader to simultaneously ascertain BOTH precisely where any part of any word on this page IS and how fast it is moving.


Some Quantum Physics theories suggest that when the reader is not directly viewing this message, it MAY cease to exist or will exist only in a vague and undetermined state. That you are reading it at all is probably more an aberration of you personal belief system than its actual presence on this page.

Some misapprehensions regarding Philosophy and Natural Philosophy methinks. Firstly Nat Phil -

Gravity -- We are all born with a gravity gene (check it out!) which conditions us to BELIEVE that gravity works. For our successful anchorage to the planet it is imperative that when we grow up we continue to believe this and are not swayed into the dangers of disbelief. Reasons -- A friend of mine decided to not believe in gravity in order to debunk this theory.
Bad move number 1.
Next thing we knew he was disappearing heavenwards at a fearsome speed. My friend was a quick thinker and knew that as soon as he started to believe again he would plummet earthwards. This he did.
Bad move number 2.
It might have worked had he been quick enough to disbelieve rapidly enough, when he was a few inches above the ground again, and then to instantaneously change his belief bias once more. - Then he would have stopped a precious few inches above the 'severe pain event horizon' before falling but a few little inches. Unfortunately, this he failed to do and almost immediately experienced the dubious privilege of surviving his incursion through the 'severe pain event horizon'.
His perspective on the world changed. -- He had been a manly 6ft 2inches but now is somewhat on the lower side of 4 ft, his lean but taught frame looking somewhat more lumpy that it had previously.
Be careful in what you choose not to believe!

Not persuaded? Then read on --

A woman's breasts are a journey - her feet are the destination. Gravity -- now it's personal! (Sorry Heater -- doesn't say anything about large brass balls… ;o)

I must spontaneously disappear now. Bye. Pfffft.


Mark Thu Aug 10 16:04:57 PDT 2000

HEATHER -- send me an email so I'll have your address. When I crashed and rebuilt my PC I lost my address book (among other things). Chap 3 is done and ready to return.

gariess Thu Aug 10 15:34:23 PDT 2000


Please accept my condolences.


Rosemary Thu Aug 10 15:11:16 PDT 2000

Hello all, Just lurking by and couldn't resist.
how could anything be all hims? You know they would never put up with laying eggs much less having babies. The first him would be the last him.

Jerry Ericsson Thu Aug 10 14:41:56 PDT 2000

Hi, I think it is the heat got up to over one hundred degrees F. today, but I simply had to write a story. To danged hot to do anything else anyhow. Posted it in the short story section. It is still kind of rough, but seemed ready to be posted.


Jerry Ericsson Thu Aug 10 11:38:23 PDT 2000

Hallee - my thoughts are with you I am so sorry for your loss. When my father passed away, our daughter was not yet one year old. He knew he was going to pass away, and told the hospital to call the Red Cross and get me home. Strange, as even the Dr.'s didn't think he would die, but somehow he knew. We drove home, straight from Ft. Bliss Tx took right at 24 hours, but I didn't take time to stop to sleep. We arrived at the hospital, and dad was still getting around, he came out to the waiting room to say hello to our daughter for the first time. He held her, and talked to her for awhile, then went off to bed. An hour later he was gone. We always told our daughter of his visit with her. What I didn't know was that our son, who was a year older, told here when they were both quite young that she killed her grandpa, because he died after holding here. He was cruel that way when he was young. She felt so bad about it, until she realized what her brother was doing. She only told me about this when we were up camping a couple of weeks ago.

Take care.


Jessica Thu Aug 10 11:23:50 PDT 2000

Hallee: I am sorry for your loss. My grandmother passed away last year, I never knew my grandfather, her husband. I was one of the few grandchildren who acctualy saw her right before she died, I am very glad I could see her and kiss her and tell her that I loved her. She died four days after I saw her.

Yahel: I support my philosophy thus, Everyone I know has their own version of reality, no two people will have the same take on life. Therefore, everybody has a different view of their free will. I know people who believe that they have no free will, they live kindof sad lives believing that everything they do is meaningless, or preordained to happen. I also know people who believe that no laws can bind them, that they are free and have free will, they are very 'interesting' people. I also know people, myself included, who believe that they have limited free will, they have control over their thoughts and feelings, but are also controled by something or somebody. My philosophy comes from what I have seen and experianced. not some weird scientist or big Philosoph.

Take care all

Debra J. Palardy Thu Aug 10 10:40:05 PDT 2000


I'm very sorry for your loss. I lost my grandfather several years ago. Ever since then, I see him everywhere.
I feel him with me all the time.

I was looking for a job and I was losing hope. He told me that three people whom I had sent my resume to would want me at all once.

One week later he died. Then one week later that is exactly what happened. I felt that he had something to do with it. He died suddenly of a heart attack. I don't know how he could have known it would actually happen.

I try everyday to make him proud of me.

I wish you fond memories forever.


Hallee Thu Aug 10 10:24:57 PDT 2000

Hi everyone.

I wanted to come in and let you know that my grandpa passed away last night, and to thank everyone for all of their thoughts and prayers through this whole thing. I'm glad I got to go up there, to kiss and hug him after getting to spend a whole week in his company. I'm glad he got to talk to my daughter on the telephone - she might not remember it, but I will, and I'll remind her as she grows up that she had a great-grandpa who loved her.

My sister is sad because the last conversation she had with him was to ask him how to plant her strawberry plants. She wanted to know what kind of conversation is that to have with a man who's dead a month later. I think it's beautiful. Every summer when the strawberries are at their peak, I'll be able to look at one and remember one of the most wonderful men to grace this planet.


Debra J. Palardy Thu Aug 10 09:41:34 PDT 2000

Tweleve years ago I got married to my beloved husband, Dan.

I couldn't find a gift that matched what I felt.

So I wrote him a poem and gave that to him as my gift.

Here it is.


I was always struggling in the dark bumping into things, brusing my soul, until finally there was no light at all. All was lost.

It was at that darkest moment, from only heaven, came the most beautiful light I had ever was you!!!
For the first time I could see where I was and more importantly where I wanted to go.

It was, I thought, the best my life could ever be. I was wrong! It has been made even better you!

We are now taking the most welcome test we will ever take, the test of time. I am going to need my whole natural life and an eternity in heaven to repay you for being there when I needed you most and for being "what" I needed!

I am now complete with!

Your wife Debra

I'll probably die of embarrassment but I am hitting the "publish my message button"

Robi Thu Aug 10 09:26:23 PDT 2000

Debra, no the reason crickets 'chirp' is to attract mates, it is correct that the males are the ones that chirp, their are females crickets too. I think.
Glad you liked the story.
I'll tell you who wrote it later, I'm off to get groceries.
Fun stuff,


Debra J. Palardy Thu Aug 10 08:50:00 PDT 2000


I love the story. I really like crickets. I am a woman and hate bugs. I don't hate crickets. I won't let my husband even shoooo him out. They are all hims, right?


Debra J. Palardy Thu Aug 10 08:48:42 PDT 2000


Can you picture me on the Mir Space Station with all the kids, dogs and the husband. Okay everybody move over a little we just need to scooch in.

It is still schooch-ing in zero gravity?


Robi Thu Aug 10 08:08:32 PDT 2000

Morning everyone!

I was thinking about this free will thing last night, (you all are a bit too deep for me) and I looked over at the wall in my dining room.
Not that this story has anything to do with free will or any of that 'deep' stuff, but I was thinking about it when I looked at the wall in my dining room.
For the last six years I have had this short piece of literary work written on that wall in spring blossom red lip stick.
I know that sounds a bit odd, but I like it and I wanted to get your opinion on it as writers.
I did not write this little "story", so I won't be offened if you dislike it. I simply want to know what you think of it. So here it is.

The Night

I think you can hear the night. If you try hard enough, that is. Maybe I just hear the night more because I'm alone at night.
Lying on the couch, with only the screen door keeping the dark on my front porch, and the television turned down to a faint mute, I close my eyes and listen to the crickets.
Night is a scared time that only a few cherish. It has a smell, light, but deep, filling of the lungs. As if bits of star dust float in the air and fragrance it. It's not a sweet smell exactly, but pure, almost like air. And night has a feeling, a feeling of calm. There's no rush for anything to be done, no places to go, no people that need tending.
Night is just the night, and those who know how it feels to become a part of the night; to be wrapped in its richness and warmed by its calm, need no reassurance that the night will always come. Silently, creeping almost, into the end of their day to make them remember that all they need, all they want will be there in the morning. With the sunrise, and a new day.

So, feel free to tell me what it is you like/dislike/find puzzling/want to know more about this story.



Jerry Ericsson Thu Aug 10 07:53:31 PDT 2000

Yahel – You may say that there is no – preordination, that things do not mesh together in a specific order or pattern, but let me relate what happened to me back in ’92.

I had suffered a back injury, and was preparing to go in for surgery. It was a couple of weeks away, and I had not been able to work at my profession, that being the Chief of Police for a small North Dakota community. The very weekend before my surgery, there was held in my hometown a gun show. Since I also bought and sold guns, and worked as a hobby gunsmith, I attended the show, assisted by my brother-in-law.

It had been over twenty years since I began my law enforcement career in my hometown, and nearly that long since I had any contact with the people of that city, other then family. That day, I sat behind my table filled with guns, when a tall lanky cowboy approached my table. He was wearing a canvas duster, cowboy hat, and of course tall cowboy boots. He looked vaguely familiar, but I could not place his face. As you might imagine, I was worried about my surgery, and the fact that when it was over, I might not be able to return to work. Also on my mind was the question that flows through many officers minds, did I ever do any good. You see, an officer rarely sees the results of his actions, other then the immediate court – jail – arrest again. The long-range results are rarely if ever seen.

At any rate, this young cowboy came to my table, and unlike all the others that had been by, he never once looked at the firearms that adorned my table. He asked if I was Jerry Ericsson, and I replied that I was. He said he wanted to thank me for saving his life. He went on to explain that back in 1980, when he was just 21, he was a drunk. Rebelling against his parents, he was running wild. He had already been arrested twice for drunk driving, and had totaled three vehicles in drunken crashes. When I stopped him for exhibition driving back in 80, instead of arresting him for his actions, and drunk driving, I had given him a break. Instead of arresting him, I took him to a re-hab clinic, where he was treated for alcoholism. I had made a deal with him, that instead of arresting him, if he would go through the program, that would be the end of the problem. To insure his compliance, I had written a ticket for exhibition driving, and told him that I would only send it to the court if he did not follow through. This action he said turned his life around. He attended the re-hab, and dried out. He quit drinking, and now had a wife and three wonderful children, a great job as the top wrangler at a large ranch and was living the life of his dreams. He explained that had I arrested him for his actions, this would never have happened, and he would probably have either drank himself to death, or been killed while driving drunk.

While this didn’t cure my apprehension of the upcoming surgery, it did ease my worry that all I had done was not a waste of time.

A little explanation is needed as to what this has to do with free will. You see some months before this happened, I responded to a fight at a nightclub just out of town. In this city, there is only one officer on duty at a time, and he is alone out there, there is no backup available at all. When I got to the nightclub, I found five big husky cowboys standing in a circle around a longhaired bearded short hippie type fellow. The hippie was bleeding from his nose, and a cut on his lip. The cowboys were all drunk and threatening to kill the hippie for some imagined slight or another. I stepped in the midst of these cowboys, and took the hippie out of the center, pushing him towards my squad car. Once he was free of the circle, he ran to his van and was gone in a flash. Now I had five drunk unhappy cowboys to deal with all by myself. Four of them were threatening to beat the hell out of me, and I was about to draw my service revolver, to use it in self-defense. Such action is allowed in a situation such as this, when the fifth stepped in and stopped the whole affair with a simple, “lets get back to the bar and have another drink” statement. I was so relieved that it was over, and left without another word. The fellow who stepped forward was that same tall cowboy from the gun show.

I explained my reasoning to the fellow at the gun show, that day and he said he never remembered the incident at the NightClub, but it probably happened that way.

I don’t know if this illustrates a free will, or not, it simply illustrates the old saying what goes around comes around.

Heather Thu Aug 10 07:17:45 PDT 2000

P.S. - If it's not thought that determines the action of those little atoms, then how is it our bodies do not dissipate into the atmosphere? It is not because we continually create new skin cells. What binds the body in its form? What binds, for that matter, the world? What's to say that the atoms don't just fly off into space? For that is a probability too.

Pick a theory, any theory - and it is still just a theory - I haven't found one yet that explains EVERYTHING.
If anyone has found one, do tell!


Heather Thu Aug 10 07:05:22 PDT 2000

Hi Yahel!
I have read some Quantum theory. Not a whole lot... but:
If there are so many probabilities, then we are free to choose whatever one we wish. Perhaps this vastness of quants is the action potential, waiting for thought to decide what action they will take.

For what propells an atom, or for that matter, anything else? A positive charge is thought to be the nucleus, negative charges have been designated to electrons. But how do we know that that is really what they are, are they not so small it is difficult to know? And perhaps what is in between, - molecular space - is where the essence of intelligence that we call God exists. Otherwise, would an atom not suck itself into oblivion? The electrons would crash into the nucleus. So what holds it there?

Thought is what created us, thought is how we create our world. Thought is what propells us through time and space, being that time is an agreed upon 'fiction'. Space is most likely an 'agreement', the way most of us perceive our existence - it takes place here (space) and now (time).

This still does not prove or disprove free will.

And then again, all of that might be malarky.
Correct me, please, if I am all out of whack!


howard Thu Aug 10 05:38:30 PDT 2000

HALLEE -- I am not free to spend much time on this right now :-)

Free will is an interesting dilemma, touching areas far beyond what we've seen here. I do believe that we are free to make choices. Those choices determine what happens next. That determination does not contradict free will, as we were free to make whatever choice we made. We choose the boundaries that confine us. The fact that God knows what we will or will not do does not compel the action we take.

Consider the possibility that God is really the only one who does not have what we think of as "free will." He is immutable,(cannot change) and He has stated who He is and what He will do. His very nature confines Him to who He is.

gotta run for now.


Yahel Thu Aug 10 02:23:18 PDT 2000

Philosophy -

Heather (gariess read this to understand the hypothesis) – A quote from Einstein against the second hypothesis: “I don’t believe in a god that plays dice”. I am afraid you misunderstood the second hypothesis so I will explain it in depth. Somewhere in the beginning of the 20th century Einstein and a few other guys developed “Quantum Mechanics”. One of the things the theory relayed on was that one can not know a quant’s (A very small particle) exact speed and exact location at the same time. So if one knows the quant’s speed and location to some degree, one can predict the quant’s speed and location the next moment (to some degree). But that prediction can only be in probabilities, meaning that there is a 30% chance the quant will be in place A, and 49& chance it will be in place B, and so on… So If the world is made of trillions and trillions of quants, and they all act according to probabilities, the future is not determined, but we have no free will. I hope that is clear now.

Hallee – If the future is determined (and it must be if god can see into it), All your choices only seem free. Your actions are known before you were born.

gariess – There is no point to the question: “What happened before the universe was created” because time was also created in that point. Asking what was before assumes time existed before, and it didn’t.

Jessica – What have you to support your claim?

Jessica Thu Aug 10 00:31:34 PDT 2000

I haven't posted in a while, nor have I been keeping up to date on the posts, so I read them all. Things have been very interesting.

Free Will: It's all in your head. If you believe that you have free will, then you do. If you believe that you are controled, predestined, ect, then you don't have free will. It is all a matter of how you see things, nobody sees things the same, and that is why we have philosophy. If you believe it, then that is your reality.

Take care everyone, and be happy, or at least nice, it would be very upsetting if people took offense and left, I happen to like everybody here. %)

Postings from the latenight writer

gariess Wed Aug 9 23:07:04 PDT 2000

Hold on here, I haven't weighed in on this discussion of free will. I have chosen to have my say (yuk yuk). Now, as I undertand it according to the theorists, faced with a choice one may believe one is free to make one's own decision as to a course of action, but since the theory states that every event in nature - right down to the very electrons that execute our thought processes - is a reaction in a chain of events that was set in progress at the time of the creation of the universe and has nothing to do with the will, free or otherwise, of an individual. In a second interpretation the choice is random and is no more determined by will than the result of a coin toss. The third interpretation I don't understand, but two out of three has always been good enough for my own satisfaction. In any case, if either of these theories is sound then I must tender the obvious question. What event set off the creation of the universe, or does this enter into the debate over a finite or an infinite cosmos?


Heather Wed Aug 9 21:34:58 PDT 2000

Here is another quote from Einstein:

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."

Yahel: The second hypothesis is the closest of the three to 'reality', however, probability has everything to do with us. We decide, we choose a certain route, and then a new spectrum of possibilities is opened to us. Did you consider that we choose the set of circumstances we are in/affected by, and we also choose what set of possibilities are open, as we are able to handle them? We choose every aspect of our lives - if we didn't, we would indeed be puppets, and that must mean there is a puppeteer. If there is one, that means it must be a rather powerful entity (God, Allah, you-name-It) and this entity has a lot of work on His/Her/Its hands. Perhaps He/She is not a vengeful God, but rather a laughing Buddha, watching as we spin on our own chosen wheels, doing what we choose to and learning from our own mistakes.
Also, we don't have to believe in a Higher Power to realize that there is free will. I don't think it's a half-way thing - you either have it or you don't.

Debra - the only reason you are physically bound by the force of gravity is because you have chosen to live on Earth (instead of the Mir Space Station, perhaps) or without a zero-gravity chamber in your home.

Just a thought! :o)

Sorry if the philosophical discussion has gone on too dreadfully long...


***Disclaimer: I can not guarantee everything I said. I could be sitting in a padded room, full straightjacket gear, using a stick between my teeth to press the keys.***

:o> Ha HHHAh hahahah HA HA HA

Allein Wed Aug 9 19:43:00 PDT 2000

Rachel - Thanks. Tell me if you make a decision - I don't have any plans. Well, I have a dentist appointment on the 22nd, but as long as I know 24 hours ahead of time if I'm going to Seattle or not, then I can reschedule. The Seattle Center has some rides over there and some games - kind of like a carnival. They have two roller coasters - one regular, one water, lots of twirly rides, and kiddie rides (merry go round, that kind of thing). I'm pretty sure they'll still be up and operating when you're there. I think they close those down in September. There's also Westlake Center, Pike place market and Chinatown to shop in. I don't know how thrilled your kids are about shopping, but if they don't want to come, we could always go to Westlake center (just a quick 2 minute monorail ride from Seattle Center) and shop while they check out the rides. We can ride some too though. Pike place market has a bunch of tourist trap type stuff - Westlake center is more like a mall. Chinatown is across the city and has a few nice stores, but is mainly restaurants.
My parents may actually let me go over there alone as long as you or your family is willing to meet me at the ferry. If not, then my dad will have to come and his leg keeps bothering him. Or (with a bit of luck) we could meet at Westlake center and I could take the subway there from the ferry. My mom works both those days.
There's not much at Seattle center except rides - about three stores and lots of restaurants. And of course the museum, but that'll be packed.
Anyway, talk to me and tell me what sounds good to you guys.

Tina Wed Aug 9 19:42:55 PDT 2000

Hello thinkers and shakers!

Allein, sounds like Maggie beats Leaha tails down. She's only (?) 18 pounds. Congratulations!!!! On the test, not on having a bigger cat.

Jerry, I like Dysco already. Leaha has a similar trait. She sleeps on my bed beside my shoulder, and every now and then she nips my cheek, just to prove that she's in control. Not hard, just enough to make me ask her (politely) to let go.

Litter, I LOVE Douglas Adams.
Einstein, too. My favourite quote of his is; (paraphrased 'cause I've got a good memory, but it's short)
'Imagination is greater than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination embraces the world.'

'Course, the words of wisdom that I live by are, 'Life is uncertain. Eat desert first.'

I'm going to go and write now. There are a million other things to do but TOO BAD! You want something that's predetermined? DISHES!


The Old Man Wed Aug 9 19:25:02 PDT 2000

Greetings and Felicitations!

How 'bout...........

What is the base motivation of the human species?
Do we do the things we do for a reason beyond necessity? Are the things we do done for the good of the whole, or for basically selfish reasons?

I could go on for hours and hours and hours in response to this line of thought, but alas, I must leave you all to head off to Florida for a week or so. Enjoy your thoughts, they are the only original thing you will ever do.

Take Care,

p.s. "Welcome" to the newbies!
p.s.s. Free will will be free when we are...just a thought...(Dang, I hope that didn't sound militant or anything)

Debra J. Palardy Wed Aug 9 17:44:08 PDT 2000


Okay we covered freewill.



Rachel Wed Aug 9 16:58:55 PDT 2000

Allein - Congratulations! Yes I will be in Seattle. I'm not sure if it will be on the 21st or the 22nd. Do you think you would be able to meet up with us? Dan and I have talked and agree that the museum is going to be crazy busy. We plan to skip it this time around. We are open to suggestions for fun stuff to do. Yah got any? I send you hugs and hugs and hugs!
PS - Did you mention something about roller coasters? I know my family would be into that.

Allein Wed Aug 9 16:33:02 PDT 2000

GUESS WHAT EVERYONE!! I scored high on my college assesment test for Eton Tech and the person giving me the test, said I would most definately get in. YAY!! I'm going to college! I start classes on the 28th of August. I'm so happy.
Treasure this moment, this is the only time you have or ever will seen/see me happy about going back to school.
Unfortunately, this means that the day my brother starts school, I won't be able to lazily lie on the couch watching TV and say "Bye Jeremy, hope you have fun." But, in one year, I'll be a dental assistant making good money. :)

Rachel - Are you still coming down to Seattle?
That's all for now.

Hallee Wed Aug 9 15:45:23 PDT 2000

Oh Yeah!
Welcome back Litter!'s the new job?

bye all!

Hallee Wed Aug 9 15:44:14 PDT 2000

YAHEL: The fact that God is omniscient...knows the future...knows the very number of hairs on our heads does not remove our free will. He knows what will happen - because of his omniscience - but the choices we make on the route of whatever end we (entail?) are our choices born of our free will. HOWARD??? HELP!!!

Jack Beslanwitch Wed Aug 9 15:29:48 PDT 2000

Just popping in to say hi from work, ever so briefly. Free will? Hmmmmmmmm - if it is a delusion I opt for it in the same vein that all parents think their children are the prettiest, most wonderful, beautiful children in the universe. A thoroughly evolutionary necessity. But, if free will is not the lay of the land, it should be. Take care.

Debra J. Palardy Wed Aug 9 14:38:12 PDT 2000

If freewill, is a delusion than I chose to like it.

This reminds me of that episode of Star Trek when they were doomed because they were held captive by those robots.

Spock told one of them that Kirk was a liar and everything he said was a lie.

They pondered it a while and went in circles until they all burnt up.

So here's another one to ponder.

Mankind has chosen to believe that freewill is not a delusion.


Heather Wed Aug 9 13:50:09 PDT 2000


I do have a few things I would like to pour onto this topic of philosophy.

Perhaps we have not happened upon (or thought of, maybe?) the theory that is actually true regarding whether or not we have true free will.

I was chuckling thinking that anything as ridiculous as me, with a finger in my eye and hopping over hot sand in the late summer would be a completely predetermined thing.
Too many variables.
On Free will: The Universe is basically simple. We are a pile of atoms and molecules all vibrating at specific rates. Atoms naturally interact. We wave our hands through molecules of air, with other molecules of bone and skin and blood coursing and making up our hand. There is a harmony of the atoms, vibration-wise at least. It doesn't hurt our hand to wave it. Any atom is a basic structure. There are various electrons, neutrons etc., surrounding a nucleus. So any atom can mingle and touch another. There are very few rules. Mingle this and this? An explosion is the result. Mingle this and that? You get water or a car or a person, or grass, or a tin can. What determines what is mingled? Us. We choose. We move, think, laugh, drive, run, by choice. If everything were predetermined, there would be no need for choice. I can't believe that having choices is just our delusion of will.

The Universe would not fall apart simply because it follows simple laws, and no matter what we do - even if we blow this planet into oblivion; the rest of the universe will be affected, but as far as I can tell, not destroyed.
The atom bomb is a whopping killer, but the entire planet did not disintigrate.

And what do atoms have to do with free will, you ask?

Ask me tomorrow. I'll connect the dots, I hope.


Debra J. Palardy Wed Aug 9 12:41:15 PDT 2000


I haven't finished college, even so, I'm going for business. It sounds like you are talking about the passing of time. It also sounds like you are talking about physical. The mind, body and spirit are three seperate things.

I am controlled by the passing of time. I am controlled by the physical and gravity, because I am physical. My spirit has freewill. It's not connected in that sense. Our spirits are free to choose a path that is controlled by those things. Right?

Did you ever notice that you think thoughts in your head? Did you ever notice that you only "feel" in the middle of your torso. You know what I mean happy, sad in a funk you feel these things in your torso. That is where your spirit lives.

That is seperate.


Litter Wed Aug 9 12:39:30 PDT 2000

Well hello again my dears.

Just back from holiday and raring to go (yeah, right!). I won't try backtracking and dredging up old topics but, ooooh, hasn't there been some vitriol over the past couple of weeks. It's eating through my PC Screen.

Talk about philosophy? Bring it on big boy! And to start you off here are three of my favourite observations:

Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. -- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

Poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese. -- G.K. Chesterton (1874-1936)

And my all time favourite (and from a Sci-Fi writer too…) --

In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea. -- Douglas Adam

Ciao for now,


Yahel Wed Aug 9 12:00:40 PDT 2000

Philosophy –
Debra (and everyone else) - What I mean is this: There are a few scientific approaches regarding the way the world works. One approach called determinism says that in any given moment all particles in the universe are at a given position, have a certain speed, and have a specific value for all other properties they may have. One moment leads to the next moment, and that moment leads to the one after it. All that is done was already determined at the beginning of the world. If we except this theory, we have no free will, because all we say or do is predetermined.
Another approach says the world works in probabilities (Quantum mechanics), one moment can lead to a set of different moments. Even in this approach, when things are not predetermined, we have no free will because the next moment is chosen by probabilities and has nothing to do with us. The third approach claims the one moment has nothing to do with the one after that (If you want to know more about this theory tell me). Again we have no free will, because the next moment is completely random and has nothing to do with us. All other SCIENTIFIC approaches are a mixture of the above approaches. Some of the particles act randomly, some are deterministic, and some are working in probabilities. We have no free will in the mixture either.

Hallee – If we except that god can tell the future, it means the future is determined, therefor we have no free will.

Mark – The above message relates to god spanking his dolls. The one before that relates to what I meant.

Debra J. Palardy Wed Aug 9 11:40:54 PDT 2000

Although, there is something about free will and fads that come and go, where we are all a part of, like the sixties, seventies and so on that is perplexing.

Are they connected or is it something completely different?


Robi Wed Aug 9 11:39:58 PDT 2000

free will. The will do and say anything we feel like, freedom. It reminds me of when I was in high school, (okay, I know I'm going back a very long way for this one) I had a history teacher, "Mrs. F" we'll call her, who had an interesting point on something related to this.
Mrs. F, said that people can have wrong opinions. She claimed that the choice or will to kill someone, in their opinion being right or justified, was a 'wrong opinion'. They had the 'wrong opinion' to kill that person.
I don't agree or disagree with what she said. It's just something I thought of when you said 'free will'.
I believe in complete free will. No limitations, no restrictions. And if humans are granted that kind of power, then I believe that all living things on this Earth should be garanteed free will.
This does not mean doing what ever the hell we feel like, but our choices will have the consequence of our selves, and our minds, not a law book or someone else. I think if poeple did as they feel with only the consequence of living with what they did, then people would do better things than what we see them doing now.
You're welcome for the warm welcome, (that's an odd statement,) I want to make sure all new members here are happy. Goal #1 of my new found love for life.
That's all for now,


Jerry A.G. Ericsson Wed Aug 9 11:36:38 PDT 2000

Yep, that was it, Greenwich or what ever village.

Hallee, that particular story was born of the Notebook. One day, I happen to mention to Americo that one of my partners did indeed throw a cat from the car window in excess of 60 MPH. Americo suggested I write a story where the officer gets his just deserts. Since we were at that time writing a short story collection here in the NB, I wrote that story, (The title was Americo's suggestions) and submitted it to Strawberries and a Moon. (Our anthology)

Yahel - I have given a lot of thought to the free will issue. I guess from where I stand, I don't think there is such thing. I have always believed that most everything is pre-destined, although we do have limited free will, the overall pattern of our lives is layed out for us. I don't know if there is a God, I hope that there is, and deep down, I think I believe that there is, but even if there is not, I have always thought that some force, whatever it may be has basic control over us. Does this make sense, reading it over, I am not sure. I think I developed this, after seeing the horrors of war, and surviving and seeing the cruelty of man against man by working as a police officer for over seventeen years.

Write on!

Debra J. Palardy Wed Aug 9 11:34:50 PDT 2000


Bunchs and bunchs of sense.


Could you support your claim now?


Debra J. Palardy Wed Aug 9 10:54:41 PDT 2000

Oops, sorry Mark:

I meant to address that to Yahel:


Hallee Wed Aug 9 10:54:29 PDT 2000

YAHEL: I cannot discuss the subject of free will without the addition of God. Free will is something that God has given us, something he said he has given us. Every choice, decision, direction, etc., we choose, we choose of our own volition and free will. Now, the consequences of those choices, decisions, directions, etc., may hamper what we indeed choose; however, the free will to suffer those consequences, or risk suffering the consequences still exists.

And, did any of that make any sense?

haha - it's been a rough day.


Debra J. Palardy Wed Aug 9 10:49:00 PDT 2000


How to you claim that scientifically free will does not exist? We are learning all along the way. How can we learn without free will? If in fact we don't have free will who controls us? Why do they control us? What is their objective? Are we being allowed to discuss this?

Or are we being instructed to discuss this?


Hallee Wed Aug 9 10:48:39 PDT 2000

JERRY: I just read a story you have on themestream, "Mince Meat Pie and Pepperoni". HAHAHAHAHA I have to ask..where or where did you get your inspiration?


Rachel Wed Aug 9 10:41:37 PDT 2000

Yahel - I believe in limited free will. I think that the choices that I have made in my life to this point have directed me along a certain path and that by the choices I have made I have closed certain options. I believe free will is also fettered by our needs and responsibilities. I don't think that we are all so free as we would like to think. I think that we build little cages for ourselves, that we tend to live in tidy little boxes. Just so many countless boxes all floating in eternity. Some of the boxes have solid walls, others are opaque and still others are transparent. Some to me would appear to embrace more freedom than others, but those who do not embrace more freedom do not consider themsleves to be less free. They believe that they are living by free will and in a way they are. Yup, I'm into the limited free will approach.

Yahel Wed Aug 9 10:28:22 PDT 2000

Mark – I have read Jonathon Edwards' essay "Sinners In the Hands of an Angry God" a few years ago, but I’m afraid I’ll have to refresh my memory before I can say anything about it.

Robi – Thanks for the warm welcome, please post your thoughts about free will.

Philosophy – It seems that the debate became about god and that people here don’t like to discuss free will from that angle (If I am wrong, please feel free to continue the debate). I’ll try to make it easier by assuming that there is no god (or that he has no part in our debate). I claim that scientifically according to what is known today, free will does not and can not exist.

Debra J. Palardy Wed Aug 9 10:25:01 PDT 2000


I believe we, do in fact, have free will. I think that the only thing that controls me is gravity.


Allein Wed Aug 9 10:24:32 PDT 2000

You think your cat is fat, you should see Maggie - my grandma's cat. Maggie is over 30 pounds and she rolls around on the floor, she looks like jello or something. I call her Jellyroll.

Robi Wed Aug 9 10:20:16 PDT 2000

Jerry, could it be, Greenwich Village, "the Village" as it is called, or SoHo? Those are the only two I can think of. Thanks for the info.
I'm off to bring lunch to Emily Jane's office, if I can get past her pesky secretary. That woman has no life but to prevent people from seeing Em.
Lots of love,


Debra J. Palardy Wed Aug 9 09:42:28 PDT 2000

Puppets don't have free will. Puppets have strings. I perfer not to get into a discussion about God in that way. I just thought I would make that point. If you believe in God, then you believe in free will. Again, puppets have strings, not free will.


Jerry Ericsson Wed Aug 9 09:29:33 PDT 2000

Robi - A Beatnik was the predicessor to the Hippy. They enjoyed coffee houses, and very bad poetry. The men were known to wear goatee beards (much like mine) and both sexes enjoyed berets (SP?) They invented the words "cool man" and "like wow" (See the many loves of Dobbie Gillis - Maynard G. Krebs (went on to play Gilligan on Gilligan's Island)) If my memory serves me correctly, they were the first group to bring grass from the world of the jazz musicians to the common beatnik. I remember seeing news reports of them in my youth, I think they were in vogue in like the mid '50's to early 60's. The birth place of the Beatnik movement was, if memory serves me, a section of New York City, the name alludes me right now, but I am sure if I heard it I would know it. Having never been to NYC I am no expert on that topic.

Debra J. Palardy Wed Aug 9 09:28:23 PDT 2000



Give me a minute.

So that's where you want to start?


Robi Wed Aug 9 08:57:04 PDT 2000

Good morning all!
I'm still on my 'high', so don't mind my babbling. Does anyone know what a beatnik (sp?) is? I met this man at the resort who claims to be the only "real" beatnik left in the world. From '60-'80 I was in my hippy phase, so I don't recall that much from those twenty years.
This man also claims that he's a writer, but can only write during the night time hours. The second the sun comes up he can't write. I told him that was complete crap, maybe the ideas come easier at night, but if he tried he could write during the day. What do you all think?
I agree with Sasquatch, I have no idea what this whole Emily Jane - Heather thing is, and I'm going to stay out of it. I hope you two work it out.
Tina, in case Emily Jane is taking a break from reading the postings, I'm going to make sure I tell her that you like her writing, I think it may help her feel better.
Anyway, I'll be around later, I have to retrive my dog from Erik's apartment.
Lots of sunshine,


P.S. Yahel, hello! Welcome to the notebook! Philo? Oh, my we're going to have a lot to discuss!

Mark Wed Aug 9 08:56:26 PDT 2000

YAHEL -- Jonathon Edwards was the last great Puritan preacher. Many of his sermons have been saved (not to make a pun). You can read Jonathon Edwards' famous essay "Sinners In the Hands of an Angry God" in most literature anthologies. I enjoyed teaching it to freshman classes because of how well organized it is. An untutored reader who gloms Edwards for the first time is in for a moral fright.

I think the whole notion of Free Will was a major part of what did in the Puritan movement. Too bad; but, the inescapable question arises -- how can God be angry at sinners, if the sinners are merely His puppets? (God becomes rather like a silly child spanking her dolls for misbehaving). How to believe in Free Will becomes a matter of how to believe in God. Not a good topic for this kind of forum.

Jerry Ericsson Wed Aug 9 08:20:41 PDT 2000

Tina - Dysco is very slim and trim, he is just huge, very tall, long he outweighs Renn (Renn is right at 6 pounds, Dysco is 9 pounds). He is golden colored, with darker gold tiger stripes. From a distance he resembles a bobcat, but has the long tail of a domestic. He has this habit of laying at my feet when I sit before my desktop computer, and if I am barefooted, he bites my toes, just once in a great while, so I am never prepared for it. The other day, one of my friends brought his sick computer over for me to work on, his wife and child came along. His wife was wearing sandles, and after playing with Dysco for a few minutes, she moved on to playing with Renn, well Dysco was not happy about that, and he bit her on the big toe. Not hard enough to draw blood or anything, just enough to make her scream a bit, then burst out laughing. Satisfied, Dysco moved on into the living room, and found a spot of sun to lay in.

Yahel Wed Aug 9 08:04:26 PDT 2000

Rachel – I shall respond via email.

Tina - I am into astronomy and planetary science, unfortunately my knowledge is limited to a few books.

Mark – I am happy to report I have analyzed the work further than echoing it. The purpose of the poem was to describe the atmosphere as I saw it. I think the poem does that better than the book (At least I tried). I did not claim the scene as my own and as proof I have named the poem after the book.

Philosophy fans – I will make statements. Please tell me what you think of the statements, and I will try to support them. The first statement is: We have no free will.

Debra J. Palardy Wed Aug 9 07:11:19 PDT 2000


It used to hinder the discipline process but he was not only so good at it but he also flat refused to stop. After, oh I don't know, about the fourth year I just gave up and started to say you heard Peprika, do it!

He has this way of hpying up the drama. He barks and instantly hits his little paws on the floor. Even though he is only six pounds, he gets this deep base sound affect when his paws hit the floor. If all that isn't enough, he seems to move so fast that it's like watching him under a stroblight. I'm sure that's spelled wrong. First he is at the left of their feet, then the right, then right in front of them. He wraps it all up by going in the back of them and repeating the process until they can't stand it.

Then he barks, then hits the floor and repeats until the kids move their butts.

Sometimes I just hear myself yelling that I don't want to hear the dog ask them again.

I guess I could just go out and give my little guy the number where I can be reached.


Tina Tue Aug 8 21:40:23 PDT 2000

Jerry, is Dysco (great name by the way) BIG big or FAT big? Leaha, our fussy feline, is just plain fat. Many people have exclaimed on their first sight of her lolling on the floor looking like a pillow;
THAT is the FATTEST cat I have EVER seen! I don't know what she weighs in at but it's far more than she should be.

Some of the most memorable moments of my life happened doing what you suggest. Like standing on top of Pyramid Mountain and feeling the wind wash my soul, or listening to wolves howling, or learning the heartbeat of a rock cliff while climbing, or the moment when I find the first spring buttercup defying the crusty snow, or watching Saturn and Jupiter spin for hours on end (through a telescope of course). My vision of heaven includes always being aware of that love force. Thanks for reminding me.

Jerry A.G. Ericsson Tue Aug 8 21:23:21 PDT 2000

Renn is a little terrier of some sort or another, I guess I once knew his breed, but have forgotten. We inherited him about six years ago, maybe seven now. He is very small, our cat Dysco is actually much bigger then he is, but he does rule the house with an iron tooth. Dysco is also an inherited animal from the same daughter. He moved in with us after we came home to Lemmon. Our daughter moved from her apartment in another city, and lived with us for awhile. Dysco has been here ever since. People are amazed at his great size, and I guess he is one of the largest cats I have ever seen, but I digress. Renn is very smart, he has learned how to spell walk, ride, go, car, pickup, and van. When we speak of these things, we must spell backwards, and he looks at us knowing he should understand, but it just doesn't fit right. He is all white, and loves to chase birds. The other day, he was barking outside, and we went to investigate. There was a white butterfly that was fluttering just beyond the reach of his chain (cable) and he was frustrated that he couldn't get it. When we take him for walks, he runs after any bird that happens to get within his reach. He has yet to catch one, and I don't know what he would do if he could. It does drive him mad that I feed the birds, just around the corner from where he is tied. I have seen him chasing the birds, he can jump almost five feet in the air after them.

Tina Tue Aug 8 20:53:16 PDT 2000

She's part huskie, part border collie, with a splash of lab and sammoied (I know I spelled that wrong). She rides in the back of our truck, tied in so she can't jump out or over the side, and comes everywhere with us, except in this heat. She's our surrogate child and we spoil her a bit. One of her best traits is that she doesn't bark much, not at other dogs or people walking by or leaves falling off the trees or cats or anything. Just people at our door or in the yard (yes I've had intruders twice but they don't stick around once they see/hear our dog) and when we throw rocks for her to chase.
The image of your pooch adding her comments to your kids cracked me up! I can just see it. I imagine that it ruins the discipline at the moment.


sasquatch Tue Aug 8 20:32:29 PDT 2000

I am here again. Heather person and EJ person please do not hurt with words. I sasquatch have found words to be gentle or harmful and cannot be taken back when hurt. Gentle words are more lovely I think. Heather person you questioned if I sasquatch can sense as humans persons yes. But there is more if humans persons will wait for it. I sasquatch have heard the sky in time of sun going down. I have tasted the song of the birds. There is what you call music in the sky lights after it becomes very dark if you listen not only with ears but with eyes and being. Listen inside. Humans persons do not listen with all and are too much like to have all quickly and not wait for best part. I sasquatch have watched a flower open and heard it too. This is what you call beautifully and life. I sasquatch have spoken to the ent and watched a humans person go right by and not see because she was hurry to see something she was thinking special too. But she missed the really special. Yes the ent is true but not seen with too quick eyes. You call imagine to it but what is imagine but another way to hear and taste and see. Hurting words can take away this tasting and hearing and seeing. I must go.

Debra J. Palardy Tue Aug 8 19:52:18 PDT 2000

Oh yea:

Jerry what kind of dog do you have? My mother has a little plastic pool for her dog to sit in in this heat. He gets in and splashs all the water out.

It's not an option for me now. My twins would not understand that it was for the dogs. I do have a little pool for them. The dogs wait their turn to go in.


Debra J. Palardy Tue Aug 8 19:47:21 PDT 2000


What kind of dog do you have? That's a riot about your dog being embarassed. We have to spell "go get" our dogs know that means that we will be going in the car soon.

I don't mind taking them but sometimes I don't feel like cleaning up the doggie schmutz on the window. Since it's on the inside, I can't pray for rain.

The thing about my Yorkie is he is always butting in when I have to speak with my children. I am constantly telling him I can handle this myself. Can you imagine me pleading with a six pound bag of hair to let me disipline my own children. If I have to tell them more than once to brush their teeth, he rushes in and trys to tell them.

If I were smart I would just let him take over.


I would love to talk philosophy.


Tina Tue Aug 8 19:28:05 PDT 2000

Thank you Hallee! I read it with anxious excitement. You realise that if this were a printed book I wouldn't be able to put it down. :-)

Do stay. I haven't done a proper crit, but I like your writing. I will do a crit, if I feel it will be accepted in the spirit it is given. That would be a) Meant to foster growth and improvement in the work b) To catch technical errors c) With the expectation that the same will be respectfully returned to the critiquer. (is that a word?)

All dog lovers,
My pooch has little respect for cleanliness. She relishes in being dirty and wet and smelly. But when she does her business she gets absolutely embarrassed if anyone can see her. During this heat we try and take her swimming every day, and she knows it. It's to the point that we can't speak the word 'swim', we have to spell it, or she gets crazy excited. We have to spell 'walk', 'hike' and 'park' too.

My cat, of course, is disgusted with the heat. After all, no one consulted HER before cranking up the heat...:)

If I lived closer, and on the same side of the border, I'd be tempted to take one of the cuties when its all grown up. My mom flat out refused to let me have any sort of 'rodent' when I was younger, and I always wanted one. And a snake.

Off and running!

Heather Tue Aug 8 18:22:30 PDT 2000

Hallee - thanks. Let's just hope that from now on, there aren't going to be flying buckets of acid.
Pissed-off-edness really is a drain.

Tina, thank you too.
To anyone else (Yahel too) thanks for the nods. Without asking I defended first, wondered later. If that has sparked any further flames, I do have a hose handy.


Hallee Tue Aug 8 17:04:37 PDT 2000

[Stepping beside Heather and putting my arm around my fellow (gulp) sister (in writing that is)]


EJ: I cannot tell you what a warm welcome I received. And, in however long (not very long, actually) that I've been coming in here - I've never seen Heather actually get this mad at anyone. You crossed a line - and now you should fix it.

P.S. Tue Aug 8 16:51:21 PDT 2000

Pardon my acidity.

EJ, I stepped up to the plate only to let you know. Everyone takes their share of the heat now and then. If you can pull through like gold in a furnace, it's a free notebook, and you are still welcome. It is the comments that aren't. But this is not a recant. I'm still pissed.

I'm not a big whack of mean bones. I just really get my fur up when I see another writer being unfairly attacked. To be discouraged with sharp comments is not helping anyone to write better. Mark's crit was accurate, but see how he backed up every point with a rational explanation? And he didn't attack the writer - but merely focused his attention on the piece, and how to spur the writer to write better.

Take a look at the blurb above the critique pages in the workbook. Jack says it all right there.


Heather Tue Aug 8 16:35:59 PDT 2000

Sarcasm, EJ, is not a flaw. It is a choice. I have asked you not to employ it when speaking to fellow notebookers, simply because it is contrary to the basic code here. Other NBers have voiced agreement with me. Sarcasm has its place, but not aimed at one another - that has proven to be detrimental to sharing work, critiquing work, and everyday posting. Though you didn't feel particularly welcome on your arrival here, most of us do. You are the reason you didn't feel at home here. There were plenty of welcomes from us.

...I am not a nun, ready to slap wrists, and I do not choose to nag every flaw; for certainly I have my own. I'd love to see the convent that would not laugh in my face if I showed up on the porch wanting to wear a habit. For you see, EJ, I am most lovingly tatooed, many areas of my skin carry ink.
I am not Catholic, either. Or any other denomination of Christianity. I'm not pagan. I'm not wiccan. I'm not muslim, etc. I'm also not agnostic. I don't fit into a neat, tidy box with a label.

So blanket me with your stereotypical bullshit if you think it will be a counterpoint; but you couldn't pin me with a title if you tried.

Good evening to all, and I have better things to write than this.


Jerry A.G. Ericsson Tue Aug 8 16:04:30 PDT 2000

Our dog Renn (not my choice of names, we inherited him from our daughter) doesn't like the heat all that much either. We have outdoor furniture, you know the kind, patio chairs with a table and a place for an umbrella. Anyhow, I have to take an umbrella out for him on hot days, so he can sit on the top of the back of the patio chair, in the shade. Then he is happy even when it gets over 90 degrees F, which it has been for the past week or so.

I guess as far as the DP is concerned, I support it if there is a tremendous amount of evidence, and no doubt what so ever that the fellow (or gal for that matter) is guilty. Then only if it was a particularly brutal crime, or the murder of a law enforcement officer. One of my cousin's was convicted of first degree murder here in town, murdered her elderly husband by smothering him with a pillow, as he slept. She got life in prison, and I think that was alright. I would not have supported the DP in her case, as it wasn't all that heinous, and he was an old farmer not in law enforcement. Also she was not all that bright, in fact she bordered on retardation.

Guess it just depends on the situation, and the particular crime. For a serial murderer, I would support it, or an ax murderer.

Robi Tue Aug 8 13:49:09 PDT 2000

I hope everyone has had a fabulous time the last two weeks like I have. That vacation did me wonders, I think everyone should take a holiday. I feel like a whole new person, and I feel about twenty years younger. I feel like I could take on writing a whole nother novel in one sitting. You would not believe how many inspirational people are in paradise. I must tell you all about them later.
But since the world did not stop while I was gone, I have a million errands to run. Don't you hate that? You get back from a holiday and there are a million things you have to do!
I'm not going to bother reading any of the postings from the last couple weeks, it's too much for me.
But I will say a BIG HELLO to any new members here. Are there new members? Of course there are, two weeks is like an entire life time!
Anyway, wonderful newbies! I am the old crazy ranting and raving woman that nobody missed while she was gone. Welcome to the notebook! (Please keep your hands and arms inside the vechical at all times, don't touch the--- :):) .)
I'm off now, a million errands I have to run. Erik says EJ is still at work I think I'll bring her a sandwich, as any good "mother" would.
Smooches my doves!


Allein Tue Aug 8 12:09:47 PDT 2000

Tina - The babies are doing fine. Some seem to have disappeared; I think the mommy ate them. But most are still there. They're beginning to move around more and they have some fur now (but they still look kinda hairless).

Debra J. Palardy Tue Aug 8 11:30:33 PDT 2000

Oh Yea:


What is a dogo Angertino? What happened to the cat?


Debra J. Palardy Tue Aug 8 10:21:09 PDT 2000


Thanks, it did. It really did! When I read it, Lord of the Flies, wasn't even there, at all. Sorry Yahel.


I do know what you mean. Of course, I hope you know I meant don't change the good. Add to the good. Just don't subtract.


My dog spends a a big bunch of his time cleaning his already clean feet. He too, doesn't like to stick his feet in the dirt either. Then, again, he doesn't mind too much where he sticks his nose. Go figure? I just chock it up to something doggie that I don't have to understand. I do understand how much he loves me. He doesn't hold back an ounce. That's good enough to overlook some of the things I don't get. He even dances upon the return of my going to the mailbox which he can see me the whole time I am gone.

When I complain that my husband doesn't dance like that upon my return, he does. I usually don't ask again, until I have forgotten about that sight.


I would love, love to talk about philosophy. I always wanted to take a class. I am in college now, but I am taking one class at a time. I imagine you don't get to those kinds of classes until near the end?

I think one of the things that are needed to talk about philosophy is strangers. We are all set. Let talk.


EJ Tue Aug 8 10:08:06 PDT 2000

Heather, you remind of of Sister Mary Catherine, a nun who slapped my wrists with a ruler every day at Saint Elizabeth's School. That was what the 'Sister' remark was.
She inspired me to do everything I could to make a name for myself by constantly correcting every flaw I had.
The day I got excepted to Georgetown, she called me into her office. I obeyed and found her on the phone with one of the most respected priests at the University.
When I arrived at GU, he knocked on my door and told me he had a room right across the hall as a favor to Sister MAry Catherine.
He never slapped me with a ruler, but every time I moved I knew I would see him standing there.
And I have those two to thank for pushing into doing everything I could to live me own life.
I don't look down my nose at anyone here and I am sorry if it came off that way, but your correcting me as if you knew me could have been handled in a more appropriate fashion. As could the way I have addressed certain issues in the past, which I am looking at as a way to grow more as a writer and more as a person.
I have felt attacked by some members of this notebook since I got here, I'll be honest about that. And I have also met some wonderful people here. I need to think for a while about whether being a member of this notebook is something that will ultimatly benifit me or if staying here will cause me more pain than I need.
Don't bother responding to that last part, I'm just thinking as I'm typing.
Write later,

Mark Tue Aug 8 09:42:05 PDT 2000

OK. I've counted to ten. Now here's my take on Yahel's poem.

I'm glad it was posted. It gets a grade of D+.

Want an A? Write about what you think, what you feel (as opposed to echoing what William Golding thinks). Your originality is more important than the choices of rhyme or meter. Check out any modern poet and find rhymeless meterless poetry that addresses issues of human reaction to life.
Hallee Tue Aug 8 09:25:00 PDT 2000

Afternoon All :)

JERRY: When I logged into Themestream's author section this morning, there was a big yellow notice asking me to place the article. I don't know where they had it, I never checked to see if perhaps they put it in the right place or not. Thanks for looking, though, and where you found it is where I put it. :) Hey! I've made ninety cents. That's the most I've made for my writing yet. hahaha

YAHEL: I am not a fan of poetry; however, I did read your poem simply because I feel that if the poets among us post their poetry here rather than the workbook, there is a reason for it. So I read all poetry in the notebook. Now, for someone who couldn't write a poem if she had a gun to her head, I did understand the poem, and liked the vividness (is that even the word I want I wonder?) of it. But, I didn't like the book. It made me very sad, and even now when I think of it or hear someone speaking of it, I get sad. But the poem was a perfect match for the book (I hope I didn't just blunder this whole compliment.) As for philosophy - I've never thought of it. I'm certain we all have our own philosophy - but having never gone to college, I've never actually studied it. I would be interested in viewing and perhaps partaking in a discussion about it, so that I could understand what it is.

I will now show my conservative republican viewpoint and say that yes, in some cases, the death penalty is warranted.

TINA: You should have mail :)

DEBRA: I had the most stuck up dog imagineable. This is a dog who would hop from stone to stone in our front yard until she made it to the driveway, then go across the street to the dirt to use the bathroom in the morning so that she wouldn't get her feet wet. She also loathed the heat. At the time, we lived in a mobile home, and the A/C vents were on the floor. That dog would lie on one of them, and we would almost have to carry this 60 lb dog outside and force her to go to the bathroom. But in the winter..that dog loved the outdoors. She would run.... She was the best.

HEATHER: I couldn't imagine eating my pen and paper...could you? (or the keyboard....hmmmm)

Have a great day all!

Rachel Tue Aug 8 09:23:40 PDT 2000

Debra - I can't say I will never change. I am always changing. I believe that we all are. None of us are the same person at the end of any given day. I'm not talking big change. I'm talking about the everyday living that changes us one breath at a time. When I was a kid (under 10) I thought I would never change. I thought the same at 16, 18, 21 and at 27 I decided that life changes us, that I can't say I will never change. I think I am pretty settled at this point, but in a few years the idea will probably make me smile in a soft, self tolerating way. Sometimes I really am just a dumb, playful kid. I guess that much will never change. Hum, Do you get what I'm saying here? I am pretty much the same person I have always been, but...

Yahel - I sent yah an e-mail to answer all I have seen flying across these pages. I was going to answer you here, but the post got long. If you don't get the e-mail let me know and I'll send it off again.

Arik - I think I was lucky with the books I got to read in school.

Heather Tue Aug 8 08:59:39 PDT 2000

EJ: I see that you have attempted to retract your insults to Yahel. Your excuses to him are rice-paper thin. What's the excuse for calling me Sister?
I can smell sarcasm ten miles away, and living in New York is not a decent excuse. What would you say if you knew who else among us lived in NY -- and they do not post here with sarcasm that poisons growth and professionalism. We are all equals here. Stop looking down your nose for a few minutes. It might look good on you. Until then, don't address me at all.
You are still a newbie here - do not assume you have centre stage.

Yahel, I am interested in philosophy. Start talking!
Tina, thank you! I'll check out the crit a.s.a.p.
Jerry, support what you see fit. You have every right to give DP your vote. Perhaps as a Canadian, living where there hasn't been DP in many years, I am used to other ways of dealing with convicted murderers. What I would or would not vote for has no relevancy, since here the DP is not an issue.

Sasquatch, where have you gone? And sasquatch, tell me - do you sense colour in sounds, or taste with touch? I am curious because the senses of people and sasquatches who are more closely related to nature often find they have a blending of the senses. Certain composers could/can actually 'see' a colour for each piano note, some painters can (could) actually taste each colour as they looked at it. Sometimes, because Van Gogh has such terrible eyesight (and so did many of the Masters - such as Monet, Degas, etc.) he painted how he felt things rather than saw them. The halos around some of Van Gogh's lamps or stars in some paintings are thought to be how he actually saw them, the straitions of colour how he felt them (mood).

And Van Gogh had a habit of eating paint. Perhaps he wasn't mad. He may have wanted to see if his 'senses' were accurate.

Ear to the ground,

Debra J. Palardy Tue Aug 8 08:30:55 PDT 2000


My Scottish Terrier hate this heat too. He especially hates the humidity.

He spends most of the day in the house laying on the tiles near the front door. It's awful.

I sometimes wet him with the hose. I have to do it early enought that he drys before he comes into the house. Wet dog stink, yuck!


Jerry Ericsson Tue Aug 8 08:30:19 PDT 2000

Hallee - just got back from Themestream, I did find your article, it has been reposted in Artists/Writing/Novels which appears to be a great place for it. I don't know if you went there and fixed, or the powers that be did it, but it seems to fit nicely. They did have some of mine re-located last night when I found the changes.


Tina Tue Aug 8 08:13:01 PDT 2000

Hello all!

Heather, I just sent you a crit. I know it took awhile but I like to be thourough. I've really noticed that doing critiques has helped me focus on my own style, helped me see my own writing through other eyes, so to speak. This kind of interaction is so exactly what I was looking for when I first came here!

Laura, yours is next!

Yahel, sorry but no go on philosophy. Now if you're into astronomy and planetary science.... or martial arts.... then we can talk. :-)

EJ, ditto on what Heather said. It's entirely possible to give opinions without adding insults.

Hallee, I love pitbulls! And while I can't say I've ever tried crocodile anything, venison is food for the gods.
My puppy (okay she's 7 but still my puppy) is part husky and part border collie, and simply hates this summer heat. By the way I'm sooooo curious about what happens in your story! Take mercy on me and e-mail the next chapter please!

Allein, how are the babies?

Have a super day!


Debra J. Palardy Tue Aug 8 08:03:46 PDT 2000

Gosh Jerry:

I am such a coward when it comes to things that I can't face like the death penalty. I hide in a corner to the point that I don't even know myself what I actually feel about these topics.

I do know it all comes down to one man doing the deed. Is he the one left to pay the penalty in the after life. If not where is the cut off point? We all pay?


EJ Tue Aug 8 07:56:45 PDT 2000

Yahel, I would never buy pepper spray in the U.S., I smuggled it in from South Africa. This stuff can kill, thankfully, I've only used it once or twice. hahaha.
I do have some dark humor work, and I could dig it up for you, and perhaps I will.
I didn't think abything was wrong with the way your poem was written, it was just "different" then what I expected to read. That's all.
As a PR consultant, my job is to dodge phone calls, and I find this to be rather fun. Just take the phone off the hook and play tetis, I mean "work" *cough*.

My favorite book is Dhammapada, (The Path of the Eternal Law) by Swami Premananba. It was written in 1942. I have one of the only copies left of it, it went out of print in 1947. Someone said they made it in a paperback edition for a while, but I disagree.

New York is, well, expensive (cost of living), expensice 98% tax on EVERYTHING), really noisy and crowded, too many tourists, but it depends on what you want as inspiration. I wanted the city, plus I have family here.

When Robi gets back from wherever it is she went, ask her about New York, she's lived here forever.

Jerry, the hacksaw is for my closet door, it got jammed and even a locksmith couldn't open it, so I got the stupid hacksaw to break through the knob. Martin's almost got it now.

Thank you for correcting me, Sister Heather, I see and will grow from the error of my ways. May I go speak to God about what I have done, so I may be forgiven for my sins?

Write later,

Jerry A.G. Ericsson Tue Aug 8 07:56:06 PDT 2000

Hallee - went to Themestream in search of your article. Alas! the powers that be at Themestream picked last night to totaly re-arange the whole site. I had to re-assign all my articles, and writers advice is no longer among the assigned themes. You should visit the site again, and put your article someplace that is now accessable, so we can find it.

I am very pro-death penalty, however that topic seems to be one of the few taboo's here, as there are some who feel the opposite, and quickly anger when it is brought forth as a subject matter.


Debra J. Palardy Tue Aug 8 07:29:50 PDT 2000


Okay! So. I didn't misunderstand. Good.

That's funny stuff.

Keep it coming.


Yahel Tue Aug 8 01:29:19 PDT 2000

Debra - I ment we eat the dead body but as a joke ofcourse.

EJ - pepper spray? I have a friend that menufacture those...
I hope you don't have a little malfunction... :-)

And as for the poem... Do you have any literary craftsmanship of your own to share, in order to enlighten me in the way things should be written? And as for your rude remark; Due to my line of work, I have learned that some bodies stink more than others do… I wander whether this is true in other areas.
It interests me... what is your favorite book?
I am considering moving to NY. How is it like to live there?

Heather - Positive attitude is refreshing.

Jerry - What are your views about the death penalty?

Arik - It is a fine cocktail, if you take out the milk.

All - I am a little disappointed to get no response from anyone who appreciates philosophy, especially in a writers forum.

Yahel Tue Aug 8 01:26:59 PDT 2000

Debra - I ment we eat the dead body but as a joke ofcourse.

EJ - pepper spray? I have a friend that menufacture those...
I hope you don't have a little malfunction... :-)

And as for the poem... Do you have any literary craftsmanship of your own to share, in order to enlighten me in the way things should be written? And as for your rude remark; Due to my line of work, I have learned that some bodies stink more than others do… I wander wheth

Heather Mon Aug 7 23:32:14 PDT 2000

Sheesh. You'd think I'd notice a typo when it glared at me like the one in the previous post.

'...a alike' isn't exactly terrific grammar.

Rules? What are they?

Heather, suddenly feeling the P.M. shoes again.
Americo - if you're sneaking away from the beach to catch up in the NB - vote for me.

Heather Mon Aug 7 23:28:16 PDT 2000

EJ: Tact would be a good thing to try once in a while. Our fellow writers and poets come here to get helpful, constructive critisim; not destructive, sarcastic drivel. If you have a personal conflict, by all means straighten it out - but do it directly, via email.
Didn't like a peer's writing? That's perfectly fine, and honesty is the route of choice. Don't like a certain so-called group of individuals? That's your business. But don't foul up our otherwise happy environ with insults. Thank you.

And now for something completely different...

Hallee - will check out your article - SOON!
Jerry - did get to themestream, read an article or two, and then decided that I am much more adept at fiction so declined to add my coupla cents. I'll keep visiting themestream every odd while...
Howard - great to see you posting :o) and Thank YOU for sending funnies my way.

Here is:
An amicable place to air our dilemmas and solutions a alike.
A place of growth and freedom with which to expand our possibilities as artists
A place, together in which the chosen medium of expression adheres to the fabric of our lives.
A place where experience, intelligence, and wisdom collide; ringing out a note of wonder, a thunder clap of ingenuity.

Keep the notebook positive - a lofty mind and heart is the only kind that holds higher purpose.


Jerry Ericsson Mon Aug 7 19:59:28 PDT 2000

Hallee - went looking but themestream is down will have to check later.

Jerry A.G. Ericsson Mon Aug 7 19:44:01 PDT 2000

I thought that the story I posted under the factious name was the one about the cats, but when I went back and checked it was the one about the blizzard, I did post the one about the cop gassing the cats, but only one guy has read it so far, he liked it, even sent me some fan e-mail about it.

Been gone all day, just got home had to take the wife down to Rapid City to see her Dr. This is the week of the Black Hills Motorcycle Rally, and we must have seen several thousand Harley's, loved it but we did avoid the center in Sturgis, just would have taken too long. Anyhow the wife turned out good with her Dr. so that went well.

An executioner has joined our midst. This is wonderful, Americo will love having him here with his views on the death penalty.

Hallee, I will be seeking your article shortly when I get done here. Have fun with Themestream, it is a great place to just give your opinion, although some times it is fun to give outrageous opinions to get the people talking.

EJ, Love your NYC attitude, it is kind of refreshing, but what the heck are you doing with the hack saw, do you have some hack locked up in your closet? Does he want to come out of the closet? Inquiring minds want to know!

Hi to everyone else, hope you are having a wonderful evening.


Hallee Mon Aug 7 17:45:06 PDT 2000

HOWARD: The nice thing that makes this world what it is, is that everyone is different. :) I'm sure that very few people are actually interested in the subject matter of the article. Thanks, though.

EJ Mon Aug 7 17:08:48 PDT 2000

If you come with in three feet of me, Yahel, I will pepper spray you until you bleed. Don't try me, I'm a New Yorker.

One writer to another, I thought you poem stunk with effort and let if you just let it come, it may seem like you give a darn what you put your name on.

Anyway, I'm off to use the stupid hacksaw on my closet door, (I finally found a darn hardware store) and now I can maybe get my closet door open.

Write soon,

Mark Mon Aug 7 16:39:26 PDT 2000

AVATAR -- That was me who asked if you were in the woods. You had to read the prior paragraph to get it, I guess. Heather said something about you going berserk, I remembered the meaning of berserk as 'bear shirt' and then I wondered:: was bearshirt in the woods.

howard Mon Aug 7 16:20:23 PDT 2000

HALLEE -- That's the story of my life -- first I get interested, then I have problems...

Hallee Mon Aug 7 14:51:14 PDT 2000

Howdy all!

Okay...a bit of shameless self promotion (grin). I was intrigued by Jerry's post about themestream - so checked it out and I whipped out an article this afternoon. It's under the author name, "Hallee Poe", under the category of writers tips...writing novels, and the title is "Writing Love Scenes in Romance Novels". I figured there are so few things that I actually know about or am good at - haha.

There was a similar article in the Romance Writers of America's last newsletter...but I think, without having it in front of me to pretty different.

If anyone is interested, or has been having problems - check it out. :) - hahaha


Debra J. Palardy Mon Aug 7 13:51:12 PDT 2000

Okay Yahel:

I'm going out on a limb here and assuming that for some reason your boss gives you free lunch?

I mean it sounds like you mean the deceased doesn't need to be buried because you have eaten them.

Not what you meant? Right?

Help me out here!


Arik Mon Aug 7 13:49:30 PDT 2000

Yahel - We all need a shrink here.... specially Americo and Jon (can u believe he doen't like milk and vodka coctail????). And I dont believe Any shrink can help us :-)

Yahel Mon Aug 7 13:43:47 PDT 2000

Debra - Washing bodies is a job like any other job. You say "Yuck", but it sure is better than plumbing. Plus it is a high paying job. Most bodies in Israel are barried, so they need to be clean before they are barried. (Most families like to see the body clean). A lot of students like to take this job because it pays their school fees and It gives them time to study.

Another plus in this job is when the desist doesn't have any family, we all get free lunch :-)

Arik - Have you ever considered a shrink? One of my "client"'s son can help you.

Arik Mon Aug 7 13:24:44 PDT 2000

(addition to yahel's post) and I am absolutley normal.

Debra - Well, I have a cat that once tried to kill a dogo angertino... I hope it is in English :-).

Yehael - Wich part of the body makes u thing the most deep thoughts?

Debra J. Palardy Mon Aug 7 13:22:45 PDT 2000


I'm having a hard time picturing you washing bodies.

Why do they need to be washed?

Are they going out?


Yahel Mon Aug 7 13:16:25 PDT 2000

EJ - You didn't like the poem???! I had to wash the last person who said that :-)

All - Washing bodies gave me a lot of time to think, and I became interested in philosophy. Does anyone here share my interest?

Debra J. Palardy Mon Aug 7 12:30:10 PDT 2000


One more thing about my two guys (dogs), I have a fenced in yard and don't let my dogs deliver gifts to the neighbors yards. I trained my dogs to go you know, piddle and the other one, in only one spot in the yard. That way I have a perfectly nice yard, happy neighbors and I don't have to search for anything. Of course, sometimes searching could be a mute point, if you know what I mean. It takes care of that problem too.

Now Peprika, the yorkie, sometimes piddles near the gate of the fence just to let others know he is there. He always gets yelled at. Max doesn't.


EJ Mon Aug 7 11:14:53 PDT 2000

Hallee, I think pitbulls are misunderstood. Your husband must be fabulous, (or you would have left him for someone better by now.) hahaha. Anyway, I'm sure you have one of the good guys in the world.

Jason, you must not be a writer, or literate for that matter, because if you were you would not complain about being bored to us. To cure your "boredness" I suggest sitting on your head, it may kill you, but at least you won't be bored. Sorry, I have a mean streak for people who claim to be bored when they could be doing something other than complaining.

Yahel, are you by chance a Michael Chabon fan? I love dark humor, it seems we have a bit in common. I disliked your poem though, I found it, well, (be polite Emily) not as good as I thought it would be. But then again, it shares a title with a book I found to be a complete waste of an afternoon's reading. But then again, I'm just being mean. :)

Mr. Callanio, you are not I take it, a Yankees fan?

Write later,

Hallee Mon Aug 7 09:29:22 PDT 2000

EJ: Hahahaha - I almost forgot the clincher that makes my husband a true redneck...his dog? A pitbull, of course. :) hahahaha (I hope he never goes behind me and checks my sites - he'd not find this humerous - I called him "Bubba"for a while - a quick stop was put to that, I promise you). Just to make sure there are no misunderstandings...I love my husband dearly. I just think it's funny.

Yahel Mon Aug 7 07:34:17 PDT 2000

Hello. My name is Yahel. I am 39 and I live with my parents. I am the one who wrote the poem Arik posted. I am happy you liked it. I work as an executioner in the state's service. Before I was promoted I used to wash dead bodies.
I like everything that has a little black humor in it.

Here is a joke a coworker told me:
A woman takes a shortcut through the graveyard to her house.
She meets a man and he escourts her to her house. When she gets home, she thanks the man and tells him she was glad he escourted her, because she is a little afraid of graveyards. The man said he was too afraid of graveyards when he was alive.

Rachel - Sell me your children. I want to buy your children. (The blues brothers)

Debra J. Palardy Mon Aug 7 06:29:17 PDT 2000


Thanks, I am angry. I will be forever. The thing is after a while I am capable of doing other things as well.
Thanks for your kind words.

Also funny stuff.

I wasn't quick enough either.


Debra J. Palardy Mon Aug 7 06:25:46 PDT 2000

I like dogs very much. I have two great dogs. I could put my best pair of shoes in the middle of the kitchen floor, go out for the day and when I came back there wouldn't even be a piece of spit on them. They chew up nothing unless I give it to them and tell them it is theirs. I love my dogs. I hope you can find a dog that you can see the goodness in someday, even if it is someone's elses.


Good one it took me almost a minute to get it.


Don't change a thing, ever.

Just for the record, I know that loose is like to loosen a rope and lose is to lose something. I just get going and then, I don't know.


EJ Mon Aug 7 06:16:11 PDT 2000

Final thought- Bibliophobia is the dislike of books. I thought I'd share that. Funny how is sounds like that book that I use to prop up the short leg of one of my dining room chairs. At least I own a bible right?
Anyway, that's all.

EJ Mon Aug 7 05:51:53 PDT 2000

For those of us who have dogs that one time or anthor chewed everything in sight, this is a little laugh about it happening to someone who hates dogs. And for those of you who dislike my friend Erik, you may find this even more humorous.
I went for a jog with Erik, who I met up with at the bridge in the park. When I jogged up I saw him fussing with his shoe, which, after a closer look, I found to be chewed, ripped, slobbered on, and in a terrible state, even for a running sneaker. When I questioned his about it all he said was, "Cleo".
I nearly fell over laughing. Cleo is Robi's pitbull (sp?), that she left with Erik while on vacation. Erik not only hates dogs, but he's one of those neat freak people, who's apartment is so clean and neat that you just want to knock over one of his potted plants onto the white carpet.
So, Cleo had eaten all of his shoes. She devowered every last one of them, or at least left them in a state of no repair.
He's never been happier then when I told him she's be home on Thursday. After our run he went off to get a decent pair of shoes to wear to work today, and I went home and gave Martin's dog Zeus a big hug and a bone. After all, my apartment is dog proof.
Write soon,

Arik Mon Aug 7 01:43:25 PDT 2000

Allein - I hate the kitchen!

Avatar - Well, this is a book that some people hate. I hated it because it was the first "adult" book I'v read and I was really angree! however, I do think it is a great book now.

Debra - This is a very nice place! the best on the net (exsept my home page ofcourse). You wait for jon and Americo and pussy and everyone to come back. it will be a happy day :-).

Rachel - I didnt know you read this book in school... in Israel u dont :-(.

Allein Sun Aug 6 23:20:45 PDT 2000

Avatar - At least you didn't find my chocolate wrappers up there and I still have...hey! Who ate my Mr. Goodbar! Damn hamsters! I think some of the babies are missing - off for a midnight snack I guess, or perhaps their mother made a midnight snack out of them. Rabbits do reproduce. I had a friend who owns rabbits and he says they can get pregnant again 24 hours after they give birth. When God said "Go forth and multiply" I think they took Him a little too seriously. But then, people are reproducing pretty fast as well. Anyone up for a snack - I can quick make some soylant green. Jack, Americo, Arik - could I see you in the kitchen for a moment. ::sound of sharpening knife:: Mwah, hah, hah, hah...
I also like Dragonball Z. Gozu is a good name. But, if you had suggested Gohan, I would have to laugh at you. Gohan is the Japanese word for cooked rice. Do you watch any other anime? I like Sailor Moon, Cardcaptors, Pokemon, Ranma 1/2, Fushigi Yuugi, Vampire Hunter D, and the list goes on.
That's all for now.

Teekay Sun Aug 6 21:49:15 PDT 2000

Hi All,
TINA: Thankyou, yes I got the songs. Sorry it took me so long to respond.
I had laryngitis for 3 days. It was horrible and frustrating . Maybe if I were a quiet, calm type of person in might not have bothered me so much. I am now at the Kathleen Turner stage. I'd like my voice to always be like that.

CHRISTI: Sticky beak, busybody that I am, it was MARK who destroyed his lifes work.
Thankyou for worrying about me.

HOWARD: I watched 'cocoon' twice and I was a bit suspect about those starter noises myself - NOT.

HEATHER: What a truly beautiful piece of writing.

DEBRA J. PALARDY: There, there dear, lie down now and put this nice cool flannel over your forehead.
Here is a joke.
Three Nuns were out walking and they got flashed by a flasher. One had a stroke, but the other two weren't quick enough.
NOW that's a funny joke.

JERRY: You cheeky thing. That story about cats (is that the one where the policeman was gassing them?) didn't have anything even slightly relevant to the title in it. What was your occupation again? Oh that's right law. Hahahahahah

HEATHER: Beethovens last movement, hahahahahahahah I cacked myself.

JASON: He who is bored is usually boring. And so it is written. Don't blame me, I didn't make it up.

DEBRA J. PALARDY: That is so sad, and how very angry you must have been. It has made me angry in regards to the incompetence of some doctors and I'm not even involved.((((((((((HUGS))))))))) to you.

DEBRA & HALLEE: I think we all need to trust in the higher power, but humans are humans, you cannot put your trust in them, although you can trust them . There is a difference.

HALLEE: BTW, your parents sound terrific.

And so, I have finally caught up on the posts. I shall try not to leave it so long again as it is so overwhelming.

Have a good day all and till next time,

gariess Sun Aug 6 21:32:26 PDT 2000

I think kids read Lord of The Flies in school because teachers love telling them how really rotten kids are deep down.


Rachel Sun Aug 6 20:05:41 PDT 2000

Debra - I'm a pretty trusting sort these days. I still get kicked in the backside from time to time. My husband is always telling me that I'm too trusting, but I don't care. I'm happy the way I am. Like I said I tried the other approach and didn't like it at all. I've had myself quite a life but I wouldn't change a thing. I'm going to sound like a broken record if I keep saying this but... I like who I am and I wouldn't be what I am today if I hadn't lived the life that I have.

Arik - I read "Lord of the Flies" a long time ago. I loved it. We also read another book in school that I really liked. I think it was called "The Crysalids" That was a great book. I think everyone read that one.

Avatar - I am told that the names I am leaning towards are Italian.

Avatar Sun Aug 6 19:25:38 PDT 2000

Tee Hee Heee! Looky looky, what I've been up to!

I did mention before that I reside in the Notebook attic of all places. You find the most interesting things up there. Take a look at what I rummaged up-
A bunch of leftover nutshells from Sqrl
Blueprints of the hotel where the Shadows project took place
A can of tuna (gee, I wonder whose that was!)
A cement footprint from Sasquatch (someone else can measure it)
Jack's spare scuba gear (now where'd that come from?)

Everyone is welcome to come into my domain and find what they may! (Please do! I wanna know what you find!) But beware, I am not a very good housekeeper.
And it doesn't help when you people just shove things in here and ignore it!
But I won't complain. The spiders don't after all...

All- Who was it that asked me if I was in the forest? I am usually, I just decided to bed down in the attic lately.

Hallee- congratulations about your Grandfather's recovery! I'll send a quick prayer up that he continues to improve.

Jason- You're bored? Well, I never! *grins*
What? the notebook not interesting enough for you? Okay, fine, I'll stop being insulted. Maybe. Read a book for goodness' sake!
That's just one suggestion of course...

Allein- I think one of your hampsters got loose up here. I've been seeing tiny footprints around lately...
Have you been using the attic as a dumping ground?!
If you have, send Jon up here...I don't mind the mess they make, but the skittering noise is getting on my nerves!
P.S.If you hampster army runs out as it inevitably should(hopefully), try rabbits. But, then again, you might not want to. Their sole purpose in life is reproduction!
(They work well as pets by themselves, though)

Arik- Negative feedback, here we come! Sorry. ;) I really did like your friend's poem, it was well put together. But I can't really speak for how I liked the content. You did mention that it came from the Lord of the Flies, and I really hate that book. Okay, it's more of an intense dislike, but I think I find too much of a parallel in there between the cruelty of the main characters and what human beings are capable of.
-shudder-shudder- the dark side that all humans are capable of falling into is ominous, and truly dreadful.

Okay, now to lighten up a bit...

Adam- One good thing to keep in mind about plots. They're like soup, they do well when they've had time to simmer on the back burner. But don't leave 'em too long or all the water will boil out and the pot will start to burn.

Gariess- Here's a thought for one of your hated movie tricks- all the bad guys standing around waiting to be picked off one at a time- here's one Villain's answer to that problem-
Rule No. 75- I will instruct my legions of Terror to attack the hero en masse instead of standing around waiting while members break off and attack one or two at a time
All- This rule is for everyone who had problems with movie markmanship-
Rule No. 56- My Legions of Terror will be trained in basic markmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.

Rachel- Me on names again! Aren't you just so thrilled? Someone mentioned oriental names awhile back- on that line of him Goku! (If you really want to know, I'm kidding)
Dragonball Z rocks! Dragonball Z rocks!

Salutations from the attic
Later all

EJ Sun Aug 6 18:41:48 PDT 2000

I spent six hours locked in my office, (my office being a desk, chair, and three book shelves, plus a lamp.) I was doing research on theatrical properties from a bunch of my college textbooks and notes I took while with the now disappeared Georgetown Company.
Everyone says to write about what you love. My first love was theatre right up through my college years. Then i got to the city and got a "regular" job.
So, I'm writing about theatre. I have good grounds too, being a city with so many theatres.
During my hours of research I found various tubes of chap stick in my desk drawers,(8 in total) along with a few half bottles of liquor, but we won't discuss
Anyway, so my 8 tubes of half filled chap stick and I are going back out to find a stupid hacksaw at the one and only one hardware store in this city.
Write later,

Debra J. Palady Sun Aug 6 17:57:03 PDT 2000


Thanks, very much. It is a nice place,! I think I might bring a few friends too if no one minds.


Arik Sun Aug 6 14:31:36 PDT 2000

WOW. thank u all for your responce... S P E C I A L L Y to Debra. I was really stoned reading your posts. thank u a lot. I also think this is a VERY good song. My friend's name is Yahel and I'll bring him here one day :-). He is reading what u are writing and shocked as much I I do. He has another good song I saw, and if I'll be able, I'll post it as well.

Rachel - I think it is the song. My opinian. What do u think about this book?

Debra J. Palardy Sun Aug 6 12:58:50 PDT 2000


I know what you mean. Believe me that has happened to me before, many times. I just picked myself up and brushed myself off and went on skipping to the song "Everyone is beautiful in their own way". I always looked like I was walking but inside I was actually skipping.

It wasn't until I lost my baby that I woke up the next morning and couldn't hear it. I thought it was part of the grieving process but it never came back. I was sad at first and then I thought it might be a good thing. That lasted for tweleve years.

Of course, you know the rest. I bumped into someone living and skipping to that tune and was totally moved to tears. I saw a sparkle in their eyes I had not seen in a long time. I wanted it back.

Don't let those little interuptions stop you. Please


Rachel Sun Aug 6 12:30:08 PDT 2000

Debra - Trust is a biggie for me as well. If people know me at all they will know it is something that I give to every person that I meet. However, if that trust is thrown back in my face it is not easily given again. I try to walk through my life with an open heart and an open mind. I tried the heart in a box approach and found that all it did was cause me pain. Not to mention that the longer you keep yourself bound up and protected the more difficult it is to set yourself free. I'm happy that you are opening yourself again. It isn't easy and it can be frightening, but in my experience I can say that it is well worth it.

Debra Sun Aug 6 10:13:09 PDT 2000

Wouln't it be nice if the notebook had spellcheck?

Debra J. Palardy Sun Aug 6 09:54:45 PDT 2000


Thank you so much. I have healed the past by having other children. Bunches of them! I din't see what my lack of trust was taking away from me. I felt that I was getting more, not losing something. I had a love/hate relationship with trust. I think that what is happening to you is really sad. I wish I had good advice. I think who we suround ourselves with speaks volumes. You seem to have a need to help people. Maybe you could get that need full filled by contacting any local agency and joining a group of some kind. There are so many people who need help. I like single mothers. I also like to help elderly people. The only way I was able to help single mothers was when I had an in-home day care. I helped as many as I could. They always appreciated everything. I didn't charge for overtime and I let them bring their children in their PJ's so they could let their kids sleep longer and it also gave them time for themselve.

My two favorite charities are St. Jude's and the Shriners Hospital.

Please consider this taking under your wing of people whom will just hurt you. Think about what your community will loose in you if your trust is completely gone.

Arik's request came at a really weird time. Yesterday I had something happen and I was shown something that I needed to see. I had not seen his poem. When He asked for someone to respond, I had to go look for it. As I read the words and remembered the earlir events of that day I almost feel off my chair. It was those words that made me see what I was doing to my trust. I just kept killing it everytime it tried to come back. It was my friend. I didn't realize it was my friend and I kept putting it to death.

I won't do that again. I feel really hopeful that all will be well again. Maybe what seemed like a long time is how long it takes.



EJ Sun Aug 6 08:04:39 PDT 2000

Hallee, I'm sorry to say I was laughing when I read what you wrote, (I lived in the south for many years and had a very bad experience dealing with some of the people there.) I'm not saying that all rednecks are bad, but some are, and I tend to run into those who are.
As someone who got engaged a week ago to my long time boyfriend, I loved your story of finding your husband. Martin is a recent graduate of Hopkins Medical School and is interning at a hospital here in the city. You can tell he's not a city person, but he's adjusting because my life is here, (and quite frankly, I refuse to leave, giving him no choice :).)
But after he gets established in medicine and I write enough so that I feel I can leave my inspiration, (this city is my inspiration) then we will probably move to a nice community back in Maryland and have a family there. But until that happens, I'm a PR consultant and he works the graveyard shift in the hospital. Fun stuff.
And no Mr. Callanio, I didn't mind at all you sharing what I sent you. :)
I'll write later,

Hallee Sun Aug 6 02:29:00 PDT 2000

Morning All!

Rachel: Thanks.

EJ: hahaha. Your list was made me chuckle. It's funny. I married a beach bum who I met when he was in the army. As soon as he got out of the army, we moved back to the beach (tourists - I could tell you stories). Then, work and the lack thereof forced us to move much further inland. Suddenly, I'm married to a redneck. You could list all of the qualifications of a redneck and my husband would probably get about 90% of them right (hunting, fishing, camoflauge, pickup truck, makes a living building houses, long hair, tattoos, sadly - even a dishwasher in my carport that he hasn't had time to rip out some cupboards to install.) hahahaha - I have great recipes for vinisin (sp?) and gator tail. hehehe

Heather - I don't know what I did, but you're welcome.

Debra - I was where you were, and now I'm where you are. My turning point was not as tragic as yours - and I'm so terribly sorry that happened - my turning point was drugs. It seems every time we turned around a few years ago, there was a crack addict in our lives. Which is so odd considering the fact that we don't do drugs, we don't intentionally socialize with people who do drugs, and we're middle class (albeit rednecks). People who think that that drug is reserved for inner city minority teenagers are way off base. We've been stolen from, lied to, and cheated, even from family members, to the point that it's so hard for me to trust anyone. I'm trying to get that back...maybe someday I will.

Mark - I don't think my parents support the arts because they're supporting the arts. The story would have been the same had different careers been mentioned. They simply support their children. I think that was my point.

My grandfather survived the surgery - which, apprently, there was worry about - and when he woke up yesterday, he recgonized everyone. Those of you who do not believe in the power of prayer, maybe this will be a testament to you.

Okay - now I must go prepare a sunday school lesson that an email this morning from my teacher told me that I needed to prepare. Hahaha - thank goodness that I checked my email. So much for finishing chapter 12 this morning.

Take care all -

Rachel Sat Aug 5 20:25:38 PDT 2000

Arik - I read the poem by your friend. When I read it I had the story "Lord of the Flies" flash into action in my mind. The story as I saw it in my head when I read the book and the scenes from the movie that I watched in school. I even flashed over my old classmates (it was a trip). It made me think of my children and camping (things can get a little wild and I always tell my husband that it is a Lord of the Flies moment).

I thought that the poem was very good. Then again I also enjoyed the book. I wonder if it is so much the poem or what it brought to my memory that I liked. I suppose that if the poem can draw this sort of a set of reactions and feelings from me that it must be good.

I don't feel that I am qualified to crit poetry in any way at all. All I know at this point is when I like something. I like the poem.

Debra J. Palardy Sat Aug 5 18:55:34 PDT 2000


I copied your poem and named the file.

Killing trust!

I hope you don't mind?


Debra J. Palardy Sat Aug 5 18:43:04 PDT 2000

Hi Mark

Thanks, I do too.

Wow: I will respond to your poem. I don't think you will like it though. I thought it was really frightneing. I felt reaction and more reaction. It made me feel kind of sad by the lack of trust of the subjects in the poem.

It's really weird that you should ask people to respond to it today. I just had a revalation today on trust. I had something really bad happen to me tweleve years ago. After that, I lost a big bunch of my trust. If fact, I spent most of my life hating how much I trusted people immediately. I know for a fact that sometimes my trust made me look foolish. I often thought myself that I was foolish. Well all that was over after I lost it. I never looked foolish again.

At any rate, when you loose trust there is not a void left is its wake. Instead, there is mistrust. It would have been nice to have a great place somewhere in the middle, there isn't.

I've learned to live all over again with my new kind of trust and thought I was doing fine until today. Someone showed me what I used to be like. They did it by being that way themselves. They didn't realize what they had done to me, at all. I just stood there looking streight ahead. I found myself falling into thoughts of the last tweleve years. I thought that I had gotten smarter by this after affect. I realized that I didn't get smarter after all like I thought but rather have been being poisined.

In case you're wondering what made me loose it, it was a doctor's era which took the life of my new baby who was only one hour old. Yes, he was perfect but for that. I had him inside of me and he was safe. He was no sooner in someonw's else's hands when he was lost. After that, I couldn't get back that immediate complete trust that I sometimes hated.

I spent the last tweleve years thinking I was at least just like I had always wanted to be. What was I thinking and for so long? How do I get it back? Do I really want it back?

Arik your poem is me. I thank you for being a link in the chain of my new education. Maybe what's actually happening is I'm done. Maybe I'm done because this is how long it takes. It could be that or it could be that help comes in many forms and places and today was a day for two.

Thank you!


Jack Beslanwitch Sat Aug 5 15:40:03 PDT 2000

Well, finished my first week in the ranks of the gainfully employed in the tech industry ala Other things to do when your family income mushrooms slightly, bought a used SUV (Nissan Pathfinder) and ordered a new scuba mask with a purge valve and pink colored lenses that off set the blue of diving in the ocean in general and Puget Sound in particular. Of course, this lends itself to all kinds of snide comments about an aspiring writer with rose colored glasses.

Also, am enjoying Spider Robinson's new Callahan book. But avariciously eating it up. Of course, I have liked that punnishing :-) writer ever since he first regailed me with stories of Callahan's Crosstime Saloon.

Looks like I will continue to be very very distracted with the job, but will sneak in here as much as possible and make sure things get archived in something like an orderly time frame. At least one person has voiced his willingness to review link requests and I thank him greatly. I will be forwarding those soon.

I definitely want to do some fictional explorations of the diving experience. There is so much there in terms of wonder, awe, terror and emotional cutting edge I hope that the time can be made in my life to make something happen in this regard. Take care everybody. Talk with you soon.

Rhoda Sat Aug 5 15:06:10 PDT 2000

Bored???? What the heck is that? Must be nice.

Tyler Callanio Sat Aug 5 11:34:15 PDT 2000

Thank you, GS for your critique of Benjamin and Antonio's work. I have given it to them and they seem to be quite pleased with the feed back they are getting. I will post Rosie's work after I post this, so you can meet the last of my four students.
Their next assignment was to write about what it would be like to live the life on one of the other four writers. More on that later. :)

Also, EJ, thank you very much for the e-mail.
I hope it's alright if I post what you sent me for everyone here to read. Here it is:

Reasons why the English language is so hard to learn:
1. The bandage was wound around the wound.
2. The farm was used to produce produce.
3. The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
4. We must polish the Polish furniture.
5. He could lead if he would get the lead out.
6. The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
7. Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
8. A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
9. When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
10. I did not object to the object.
11. The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
12. There was a row among the oarsmen on how to row.
13. They were too close to the door to close it.
14. The buck does funny things when the does are present.
15. A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
16. To help with planting, the famer taught his sow to sow.
17. The wind was too strong to wind the sail.
18. After a number of injections my jaw got number.
19. Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
20. I had to subject the subject to a serier of tests.
21. How can I intimate this to my most imtimate friend.

Thought I'd share, (thanks again EJ.)

Tyler Callanio

Jerry Ericsson Sat Aug 5 10:48:10 PDT 2000

Mark - yes they do, these shorts dealt with religion, so they were holy shorts!

Arik Sat Aug 5 10:00:09 PDT 2000

When I posted the poem earlier I ment for you to respond to it,
hint...hint... :-)

Americo - Are you there yet?

Jon - Did you try the milk and vodka coctail while you were gone?

EJ Sat Aug 5 09:54:53 PDT 2000

Well, no it's almost one here. Well, I just got up so it's morning in my world.
Tourists are still invading the city. I hate tourists.
So, let's see, added to my list of people I hate.
2)Teachers, (except Mr. Callanio, because he is rather cool, plus, he's a New Yorker.)
3)D.C. cops

Hope everyone's weekend is good, I'm off to find a hacksaw at the hardware store. Well, first I have to find a hardware store....Anyway, I'll write later.


Mark Sat Aug 5 08:17:05 PDT 2000

JERRY -- went to themestream and put up three of your old shorts? They have a clothesline?

HEATHER -- inherited brass balls? Now there's an image.

A zoologist friend of mine told me how the orangutan got its name (the pronounced name). Seems the leafy vegetation the orangutan favors is high in minerals and iron. Those elements collect in the male testicles. Thus when he lopes through the forest we hear "A-RANG-A-TANG, A-RANG-A-TANG."

That one gets a time laugh. You'll laugh when you get time.

I liked the unpaid exorcist.

HALLEE -- such a mixed bag in your post. Your teeter-totter is well-balanced. Encouraging to know that some families support art. Sad to hear about grandfather.

ALL -- we've had some discusson here about Mom 'n' Dad and canIbeawriter? I'm 53 and still sorting out how I got to be where I am. Jeez, it would have been great for my maturity if I'd had some maturity when I was 17. But I didn't. So I can't blame Mom for trying to make me into a workaday, steady, insurancebuying type of guy. (she did try, but who knew what I had inside? No one, not even me). Someone here, Jessica was it? wrote of momndad as obstacles to her writing. Wow, you recognize that? That's more maturity than i had. Now. Do something mature about your problem -- and that doesn't mean quit just to avoid the nuisance, or run away, or get stoned. You'll find your best coping strategy right now will put writing into a schedule that allows you some freedom, but also allows time for household or family activities.

My wife is just like my mother in that regard. If I'm doing something that doesn't bring in a paycheck, then she complains I'm wasting her time and mine. Yes, she needs some of my time. Yes, the house needs some of my time. It's all about schedule. (And I sometimes pretend that her stuff has my priority.)

Debra J. Palardy Sat Aug 5 06:39:18 PDT 2000

I do have five children but one of them moved into his own place. Phew!

Jason maybe you could take a walk?


Debra J. Palardy Sat Aug 5 06:33:04 PDT 2000

Wow guys and gals,

Those were great jokes. Some of them were even new!

Heather, I've heard all those excuses from my kids. I have two dogs, Max and Peprika. They don't give my any trouble at all. When I want to vac, they pick up their toy, (singular) and get out of my way. One is a Scottish Terrier and the other is a Yorkie.

Yes, under my roof is a husband, four kids, two of them are twins only two years old and two dogs. You know seeing it all out in the written word explains a lot. It's no wonder I like hanging around here so much.

Gotta go

The troups need more service.


Debra Sat Aug 5 06:24:00 PDT 2000

He's all right now. You know nothing left!

That was the last one. I promise.

Debra J. Palardy Sat Aug 5 06:22:33 PDT 2000

Thanks, guys

One more?

Did you hear about that guy who got into an accident and lost his left arm and left leg.

Jason Sat Aug 5 02:50:16 PDT 2000

i'm jason

i'm new

i'm bored

Tina Sat Aug 5 00:54:01 PDT 2000

What do you call an empty jar of cheese whiz?

Cheese was!

Okay, that's my bad joke of the millenium.
I dare not post anything else 'cause I'm a touch tipsy at the moment and I'm having a bad time typing. But I apreciate the jokes! :-)


Heather Fri Aug 4 23:44:55 PDT 2000

Wow, did I gab on that long?
(covers mouth) Hee hee hee

Heather Fri Aug 4 23:28:09 PDT 2000

Nobody's going to admit that this is a funny joke but I'll tell it just the same:

What is brown, lumpy, and sits on the piano bench?

--Beethoven's last movement.

An oldie, with toilet humour. Gotta like those!

Sorry, had to liven it up with a stinky, corny, awful attempt at a joke.

I like the previous two - Deborah, the second time around worked!

Thank you Christi and Hallee.

Christi, my sleeves are getting full these days with the things I air out on them. I find sometimes the things most obvious are overlooked, so I try to make the obvious --uh, obvious for once. Kind of a leftover from adolescence, I think. My best friend seems to think I inherited a pair of brass balls, sometime during the leap to adulthood.

...It used to be Girl guide badges I wore up and down my sleeves. Now, how did it get to be battle scars?
Or at least many of them seem to be so.

I have still to finish 'Holding Wonder'. Don't worry, Howard, I will pass it on soon. Been writing so much lately (thank the muse and God and Light and thank paper, too, it all adds up) that I haven't immersed myself in other books.

I bought 'The Writer's Idea Book, by Jack Heffron' yesterday, but all I did was write my name in it. I don't think I need any writing prompts at the moment. But I'm sure I will later, and it's fun to practice, so the book is a gem to have.
Like Jerry's thesaurus and spell-check at hand, I too have my own arsenal readied.
I'm beginning to wonder if the computer (hutch) shelves are going to last ten years with all the weight of my books. Sitting somber and proud, on the far right of my book-hutch is the Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary, circa 1960, in a brown leather cover, with gold edges to each page. It weighs over twelve pounds.

The rest of my books (at my desk, anyway) do not weigh that much combined.
Good thing to have, though it is less awkward to use my 1935 Dictionary - it is an average size, and a joy to hold in my hand. My thesaurus is nice, too, but not well-worked in yet.
I prefer the dictionary but often I cross-reference just to fill my head with more words, definitions, and roots.

My husband and I have had a really tough time going through our boxes and shelves of books, (everywhere in the house you look, there are books) hoping to sacrifice enough of the unecessary ones to sell in a garage sale. If we ever get around to having one this summer, that is. We are a family of packrats, secretly loathing the time we must clean out the closets, though when we finally do the house feels suddenly more free and open.

I'm the least packrattish of all of my family, so of course I am also 'the heavy' when it comes to demanding some clear space so I can find the rug to vacuum it. When asking the kids to aid me in the desperate search for cleanliness, I get all sorts of complaints, ranging from,'AWWWWW, Mom!' to 'But I cleaned last month!'
and excuses from,'I've just started building the fort, Mom, I can't wreck it now!' to 'But it was a tidal wave, Mom, and it came up from the drain when I pulled the plug! I didn't open the shower curtain once!'

This is why I don't own a dog.


Oh, yes... I did realize when I posted that 'we should de-funk the stereotype of the starving artist', I also admitted that I had lived the stereotype. You learn things in funny ways. Not so funny then, but now it's the laughing -at-yourself-part I am understanding. Finally. Touche to me.


Christi Fri Aug 4 22:10:07 PDT 2000

Do you ever get that bloated feeling when the notebook is so full it takes a few millenia to load? Maybe it's just gas.

It didn't hurt as much the second time around, but it still hurt just the same. Ouch. If you like that one, maybe you'll like this.

What do you call a piano with no hair?
Give up?
A Baldwin! Get it? A Baldwin! You know, no hair? Ah forget it. At least I think it's funny.


Jerry A.G. Ericsson Fri Aug 4 22:06:52 PDT 2000

Update on the themestream article, seems to have slowed down some, there have been 13 hits now since I posted it. However it did generate several e-mail comments - all good so far, and several comments at the bottom, only one made mention of the little bit of fraud in the title. The short I posted was the one I wrote for Americo about the cats, if you remember it from quite some time ago. (By the way, I picked up a little program that sits in your system tray in Win 9X, it does spell checking on anything you type, so long as you copy it to the clipboard, I find that my spelling is improving, probably because of this, as I have fewer and fewer errors of the checks. It is called Traysuite, and contains not only a spell checker, but also a thesaurus and definition dictionary, neat item to have at ones fingertips.


Debra J. Palardy Fri Aug 4 21:53:12 PDT 2000

You get repossessed!

Is that better?

I can't believe no one likes my favorite joke of all time.

I just can't process the information.

Debra J. Palardy Fri Aug 4 21:51:21 PDT 2000

You know I think I might have messed up the joke the last time. Let's try this again.

What happens when you don't pay your excorsist?

Christi Fri Aug 4 21:11:57 PDT 2000


I wasn't too sure about your answers until I got to number seven, which made me laugh out loud. Just for that answer alone you get an A-. Do I know you better now? I don't know about that, but I'm glad you're still posting here anyway. :) You're lucky that Jon's on vacation. He's not easy at all.

We shall dance to anything you like, my dear.

Are you better yet? I am worried about you! You're still funny even when you're sick; now that IS an accomplishment. Don't feel bad, Kathleen Turner wasn't born with that sultry voice. It was crafted and cultivated, every step of the way (I saw her interview about it). When I'm sick all that can be heard is whinging all over the house.

I'm glad that you and your mom find ways to get along despite your differences. My mother is an artist and has always encouraged us to do whatever makes us happy, although she did make me take numerous jobs that I hated with a passion. I think it's a generation thingie, because she says now that she has no idea why she pushed me into them, except that it was simply what was done when she was a teenager.
I liked your thoughts--I like how you wear them on your sleeves for the rest of us to see.

I'm very sorry that your grandfather seem to be worse. When they did the biopsy on my husband's mother she got much worse, just like your grandfather. We think it was the swelling caused from the surgery, and I think she would have gotten better had the cancer not been so far advanced. There is still hope. I will be thinking of you and sending good stuff your way.

You're really racking up the bucks with Themestream. Three hits in three minutes--that's 7cents a minute, which means if that keeps up, you'll be making 4.20 an hour just for one story! Sign me up!

Hellooooooo kindred spirits! Come out, come out wherever you are!



Jerry Ericsson Fri Aug 4 20:48:49 PDT 2000

ECHO - - - - ECho - - - Echo - - - echo - - -

Jerry A.G. Ericsson Fri Aug 4 19:26:41 PDT 2000

Been playing around on themestream again, I posted three of my old shorts, and just for the heck of it, I named on "I am Working On My Second Million Dollars On themestream!" Then I went to the author page and watched the hits for three minutes, the first two received none, but the Million one had 3 hits in 3 mins. Guess it's all in the name.

Jerry A.G. Ericsson Fri Aug 4 18:31:42 PDT 2000

Been so quiet in here today you could hear a pen drop!

Hallee Fri Aug 4 06:22:19 PDT 2000

Hi everyone!

TINA: Welcome Back! Glad to hear you're writing again :)

JESSICA & ALL: I have been blessed with the parents I have. Neither one of my parents have any artistic streaks in them. Well, perhaps my father dabbled in poetry in high school - but nothing that grabbed him and hung on. But, there are 4 kids in my family, and my parents did nothing but encourage us to be happy. Do what you want that makes you happy. I'm the only child without a college degree, but I'm happy and that is all that matters to them. And with that encouragement, they received the following children: My older brother, a degree in cinematography from USC - writes screen plays and spins hip-hop music; me - writes romance novels (I, too, have a job on the side for now); my little brother - a degree in art - now makes a living as an artist; my little sister - a degree in English Lit with a minor in Journalism - now a staff reporter for a newspaper.

It's odd the courage you have when your family says - do what makes you happy. Find what that is and do it well. We all have, and we're all having so much fun.

Okay - today at 2pm pst my grandfather is having brain surgery. It's a last ditch effort to try to fix whatever's wrong with him. They have run test after test after test, including shooting nuclear dye into his brain to see what's wrong. The only thing they can find is that vein that's leaking, but the procedure they did last week should have shown a great improvement, when in fact he's worsened. He now has a feeding tube because he doesn't have the strength to eat. So, they'll go in surgically, try to fix this, and possibly, put him in a home.

All of my stupid movie tricks that annoy me have been mentioned. I have nothing more to add to that.

And, I think perhaps that's it for now. Have a great Friday all.


Debra J. Palardy Fri Aug 4 06:16:30 PDT 2000

Just for the record, I don't pick up hitch hikers!

I don't recommend it either.


Debra J. Palardy Fri Aug 4 05:58:02 PDT 2000


Thank you! Of course, you're nothing like your brother or sister. To give you an example of why you should just put that thought right out of your heart, I am the mother of twin girls. The doctors say that they are identical. Well, they could not be more different. They may be identical in the DNA department but not in their souls. To even think about how different you are from them and worry is, wasting time.

I have five children and they might as well be five different people I picked up hitch hikng. There is no trace of their having all come from the same place, me. I have room for everyone in my heart. I also hold lots of other people there parents, friends, siblings you know the list. That's the way the heart is designed.

Worry about nothing.

As you grow, so will your writing. Whey you do finally move out it's sink or swim. Right now you are tredding water, enjoy it.


Heather Fri Aug 4 00:06:40 PDT 2000

This is what noodles my pan: (brain pan, that is)

Parents who think that artistic pursuits aren't practical.
That 'starving artist' stereotype has GOT TO GO!

Speaking of which, I'm hungry.

Really now. Jessica, My mother said the same thing enough times to me that I almost believed it, and to make matters worse, I could be leagues ahead of where I am if I had never listened. But my mother, see, she's intensely practical. If there is no motive or reason behind any effort, she'll re-direct and do something she considers rewarding. Fine. That's perfectly fine - but the activities she finds productive and meaningful are only her opinion of what is rewarding. I had and have my own opinion. My mother didn't mean just money, although she was pretty worried I'd starve once i left home. She was right.
I almost did. But that doesn't mean I didn't create things worth pride, or worth my time!

And I am stubborn. I lived, I moved on, I continued to draw and paint and write no matter what jobs I had to have on the side. (I still have a job on the side, by the way)... I did not (and do not) paint to live, or write to live; rather I live to create, to do those things and express myself visually, verbally, and with as much grace as I can suffuse into every splotch of pen and ink. Without art, what is beauty but a flash in the pan? Without literature, what is the world but a string of forgotten moments and thoughts? Fleeting moments, that only the quick may catch but never hold? Art paints beauty forever.

My mother? Sure, art's nice to look at, but what does it have to do with real life? (she sees art as the imitation, and there is so much 'real work' to do...)
Art is the focusing lens with which we interpret and see the world in broader terms. How do we know what is bad in the world, if we do not know what good is like?
It is the same with art, or esthetics, or pleasure, or delight.

I've found them all on the mulch of trees, stirred with chemicals and flattened into sheets. Plus ink.

Practical? So she wanted me to sculpt earth with my hands? I should have known...

(I look up at what I have just spurted)
I think I've gone on long enough. You already know this conversation, this cause.

Writers write to breathe.
Who knows what others require?

Hi Mom. I love you; and though your scientific, purely mathematical mind may never wrap itself around the things I value, there is still hope. (No, my Mom doesn't post here)


Jessica Thu Aug 3 22:34:29 PDT 2000

DEBRA: Thanks for your words, I have known almost all of my life that I wanted to be a writer, I think I realized it around third grade and started work on a novel in sixth. It wasn't very good, and I only wrote fifteen hand written pages before I got an even better Idea, but it started me thinking, and now I am writing something that realy has merit.
About my mom, She wants me to be like her, the way my sister is, but I'm not my sister, I'm not my brother, either and he is the reason that I can't go and do anything with anybody. But she thinks that I need to have a 'practical' job where I conform to the rules and structure of whatever I am doing, unfortunately for her, I'm not a conformist. Well, thats enough from me. I have a year and two months before I am legaly free, so, I suppose I will survive. I have the fortune (misfortune?) to be born with a fighters soul. I would have made a great adventurer in a fantasy novel.
~Jessica %)

Debra J. Palardy Thu Aug 3 21:31:41 PDT 2000

P.S. As for looking at the writing of the students and telling them what might be wrong or right, I am sure I am not qualified. I hope nobody minds if I just stand by and watch.

I do have a book on Amazon but it, unfortunately, has nothing to do with writing. It's more of an important thing, singular, that I wanted to share with young teens.

So I'm staying out of it.



Debra J. Palardy Thu Aug 3 21:14:13 PDT 2000


I understand the feeling of hating being a minor. Even though I am now forty-one, I still remember that feeling. You will be an adult for a long time. That's a fact. Another fact is, you know that you love to write already. I din't realize what was going on until only a few years ago. I had all these plots and characters in my heart and was to busy with my life to understand how to get them out. You already know, that's huge. You will have so much time to do your writing. I will too and I am a late bloomer. I don't really know what causes that.

I'm sure she wants you to write. She probably just wants you to do lots of other things, as well. Your mom is under a lot of pressure right now. You are almost an adult. What I mean is that's a scary time for a mother having been there once already, with my son. It's the same kind of urgency you might feel when the knock of an important friend comes to the door and you don't know if your ready. Only this feeling is not gone as quickly as it came.

I envy you for knowing at such a young age that what you're feeling is the love of writing and it's not just being a good daydreamer. I want to spend every spare minute writing, unfortunately, I don't have that many.

I know you will see that there will be time for everything. You sound like one of the few young people who is doing everything right! I wanted to say,"write" but I think I joke around too much as it is. At any rate, this may or may not help, but what about writing the way your mom would describe you in her own words privately, of course. You might actually see her through new eyes.


laura Thu Aug 3 16:44:29 PDT 2000

For those of you who are interested, Prometheus 4 is up un the Novel archive. Feel free to tear apart the whole thing I need to get it knocked into shape relatively soon because I want to finish it by the end of this next school year. (it would be nice to graduate from college and finish my MS at the same time.)

gariess Thu Aug 3 12:30:41 PDT 2000

Hello, Bejamin,

I have read your bio-bit and I find it very interesting. I have been under the impression that the material from Mr. Calliano’s students is factual rather than fictional. I am going to hazard a guess that yours is fictional. The reason I say this is that although your account is very convincing, I don’t believe that the character you so aptly portray would be in character in a creative writing class. The kind of playboy figure you describe is not arguably the sort to seek self improvement. Such people are too convinced that there is nothing to improve. Other than this conflict in characteristics, your writing is very articualate and convincing. I find nothing of the usual artlessness which often betrays this kind of portrayal. You have managed to slip neatly into the mind of your playboy and speak from his own tongue. Even if you were this person the writing quality of your writing is first rate. I picked up one grammatical faux pas where you write "… poor people have it different," where the adverbial suffix "ly" is called for. That’s a pretty shabby toll of crits for any writer. Still, in order to be printed one’s work must be edited. Of course, I suppose you could pay someone to do that, in your situation. It rather sounds like you could pay someone to write the entire book.


gariess Thu Aug 3 12:27:50 PDT 2000

Hello, Antonio,

You have written a very interesting bit of description. I am going to hazard a guess that this account is not entirely factual material. I say this for the opposite reason from the one I gave in the case of Benjamin’s piece. To be glib, I think that where Benjamin’s character would feel above the need for self improvement; your character would feel below the need. I am going to assume for the sake of discussion that you are familiar with the works of the other students in this project.

Again, risking offense, I feel that your character is portrayed (very well in fact) as an unmotivated figure who drifts aimlessly within the confines of the poverty and ignorance of an inner city world. He just wants to sleep there, he says about his brother’s crack house. He is conflicted about taking over the business from his brother. Is this because of a moral dilemma or a lack of confidence? The reader wonders why his brother feels Antonio "… understands drugs." Does this establish that Antonio understands drugs from a disapproving point of view, where his brother believes he understands drugs from the business point of view? Does his brother fail to understand Antonio’s true distaste for drugs in general? This is very subtly hinted at in a very brief accounting. If the writer wants to make a more certain statement, it would suggest that Antonio would be open to considering a more active rejection of his world. It would then be a statement rather than a subtle hint. If the writer had more space in which to flesh out the subtlety of the relationship between the two characters, it might lead to a more developed theme. In this piece as in that of Shelly’s there seems to be a rather open ended flow to the material. What are Shelly’s goals for herself, and what lies in the heart of Antonio? In the case of Benjamin’s piece the form is more circular and conclusive. Again the writing here is very articulate and fluent. The writings of all the students leave me wanting to see more.


Debra J. Palardy Thu Aug 3 11:51:02 PDT 2000

HI All:

I have a Stupid Movie Trick that bothers me as well.

One of Slyvester Stallone's movies he has a small bag over his shoulder, you see him stuffing endless amounts of things in. I wouldn't be able to fit my checkbook and license. During the entire movie he is puling stuff out of that bag, big stuff and lots of it. So much stuff, in fact, that he defeats a small army of highly motivated, and heavly equiped people.


EJ Thu Aug 3 11:50:21 PDT 2000

Answers to Christi's questions. (I posted this, but it never showed up on the screen, so I'm reposting it in case it didn't show up, if it did, sorry, just making sure.)

1) Who do you love?
My finance, Martin. My family, (Robi, Jher, and Erik.)

2) Why do you love?
The above mentioned people are my home, it's hard not to love them.

3) Do you love me?
Do I have a reason not to?

4) Who is this Jher, whom you refer to so often.
Jher is my God. He's my higher order. All my questions, he has answers for. To answer the question, a very good friend.

5) How do you and Robi know each other?
Robi is like a mother to me. I've known her for almost nine years.

6) Do you know where I left my left sock?
No, but put the sock from your right foot on your left, and hop on your right foot until you find it.

7) Why do people like iced coffee, yet they will not drink the cold coffee that’s been sitting on their desk for the better part of the day?
I have pondered the same question. I am not a coffee drinker, but I asked a few friends who drink coffee and they rolled their eyes and murmered something about "Starbucks."

Is that all? That was simple. Hearts anyone? Pass the brandy, please.

gariess Thu Aug 3 10:50:37 PDT 2000


They would have had me with the Chysler starter. I had no idea that one starter sounds any different than another.


Jerry Ericsson Thu Aug 3 08:33:21 PDT 2000

Just remembered the exact stupid movie trick that got my goat the other day, this was on a TV movie that my daughter was watching the other day, when she was home for a visit. There were two cops talking about the third, one said, "You should have seen him when the miranda law was passed!" Guess what, there ain't no such law, Miranda was a case in which the Supremes said that you must inform a suspect of his constitutional rights, when he is both in custody, and being questioned. This brings another point, when a suspect is being questioned on TV, the very first thing the officers do is read Miranda, however it isn't necessary unless the suspect is BOTH in custody and being questioned. If one part is not there, then Miranda is not necessary. Now there are thousands of cases out there that hold it is the feeling of the suspect, not that of the officers that determines if he is in custody, so an officer must keep that in mind. The test question in court to the defendant is "Now Jim did you feel that you were free to leave at any time?" A yes and no Miranda is required, a No and Miranda does apply

howard Thu Aug 3 05:32:12 PDT 2000

Not much time yet -- still catching up on the archives, and laughing hysterically at the lightbulbs-in-the-bvds account!
But I hadda share one of my favorite bloopers: In the movie "Cocoon" there is a scene where they take the cover off a Cadillac convertible, jump on, and start it. The sound of the starter is unmistakeably Chrysler! Later on they start it again, and it sounds like a Caddy starter.
Another pet peeve is any movie that shows a computer. In the old ones, the hero turns on the computer and immediately the tape drives start to spin, the card reader and punch start running, and the printer starts pumping out paper.
It was never thus!

gariess Wed Aug 2 23:41:49 PDT 2000

Another one with the martial arts films is the way the hero takes down six bad guys in a fight. The bad guys just stand around and wait their turns, they come on one at a time and get bashed. Why the hell dont they just all rush the guy at once and pound the hell out of him?


Wed Aug 2 23:34:21 PDT 2000

Hey you guys,

That was a great bunch of stupid movie tricks, Heather wins the prize. Bloopers are good, too. I saw one where the hero and heroine were alone in a motel room. In the reflection of the mirror a crew member walks painly into view. Incredibly, this was not edited out.

Hi, Christi. It was someone else who trashed his life's work. I haven't even thrown out my high school clothes, yet, and I'm on social security. Anybody need a Nehru jacket?


Tina Wed Aug 2 23:25:28 PDT 2000


Teekay, I sent on the song. Hope it made it there okay.
Losing your voice is an enlightening experience, eh? I had laryngitis (I just know I spelled that wrong but don't feel like looking it up) in March and couldn't believe how annoying yet liberating it was. Suddenly, I wasn't expected to 'make conversation' and it was nice to just listen. I couldn't answer the phone at work and THAT was a problem though.

Christi, glad to hear you're enjoying the book!

Another movie peeve. The good guy can always outrun a spray of machine gun bullets, but the bad guy doesn't. Just playing paintball proves that you CAN'T outrun bullets, not even fake ones. Ouch! ;-) The endless clip bugs me too.

And another one that my hubby brought up. When people are running through city streets being chased by a car, they ALWAYS run straight ahead. Go to the side! You can't outrun a car! Or a motor bike!

Another one. (I must seem like a total nit-picker!) In martial arts films the good guy never hits hard enough to actually hurt the bad guy. No decent martial artist would throw an uncommited strike! It drives me crazy.

Better go before I think of more. My story beckons... it feels so good to be rolling along again after being stuck for so long.

Speaking of being stuck, Clayton, how's it going? Hope your creative juices are sweet!

Going now...

Arik Wed Aug 2 22:50:30 PDT 2000

Christi - ohhh. great. what shell we dance?

Teekay Wed Aug 2 21:33:22 PDT 2000

Back again,
Have been busting my brain to remember any movie tricks that get up my nose, but I still can't think of any.
BUT, I remember this bloopre (hey, look at that. No pun intended.) I saw on some action movie and it had this scene where there was a big truck and there were all these white plastic shopping bags nearit, like someone had just been to the supermarket and left them there for a minute. Anyway, in the next take they were gone. Tres fonny eh he eh he eh he.

I have sort of lost my voice today, but instead of sounding hoarse and sexy like Kathleen Turner I don't.

Haven't managed to find my way to the workbook from yesterday yet.

Must go and feed myself. So much to eat, so little time *sigh*

CHRISTI: Your post made me go eh hehe hehe cough cough eh heh heh. It was rool funny.

Heather Wed Aug 2 21:16:23 PDT 2000

You're right, Jerry,

That's why I've been pestering you so much!


Jerry A.G. Ericsson Wed Aug 2 21:05:21 PDT 2000

Wow, all of those move tricks anoy the hell out of me, but what really gets my goat is when the writers of the movies or maybe its the directors, I never know which, have cops do things that no good cop would really do, such as neglect to read the suspect is rights. Or the lawyer who quoting cases that never existed, or were decided exactly oposite what they are suggesting. Also the judges who accept such things, or who jump down a lawyers throat for something a real judge would laugh out loud over. The writers must do more research and make things more real, there are those of us out here who understand such things, and recognize these writers for the hacks that they are. I guess that is why I quit watching movies many years ago, unless of course they are something like Star Wars, or Star Trek, wouldn't miss one of those, but they are of course very believable.

Thats my 2 Cents worth for today.


Heather Wed Aug 2 19:43:20 PDT 2000

Stupid movie tricks -

Oh, you have opened up a very large vermin can on that one!
Live bait running amock, nibbling on every nerve.

(Oops, for someone who's daughter owns a guinea pig, I should hush)

Here are some SMT I find most annoying:

1.) A person falls from great heights. The hero is able to catch them, in a dead fall, without his fingers slipping loose or wearing mountaineer harnesses. Yeah. Sure.

You know that person would have been road pizza.
With extra cheese.

2.) Women wear makeup to go to sleep, wake up with fresh breath, and never need deodorant. They also have no armpit or leg hair - or stubble for that matter.

3.) A dog barks at an intruder. The intruder runs, but never gets his ankles chewed, or his arm detached. Even if the dog attacks, the intruder's clothes bear no rips, and the intruder is never very hurt.

4.) The hero rarely gets KO'd. Even if he has sustained worse injuries, gets punched harder, or basically one inch short of death, he will most likely stand up, and magically win the fight. The 'other guy' is always worse for wear at the end.

5.) A car is smashed beyond the ability to run. The hero jumps in, and drives away. Hey, that's not the same car.

6.) Every bullet misses the hero, except maybe one, and it's not fatal of course.

7.) The Kung-Fu hero can knock out or kill twenty opponents, but no one even bloodies his nose.

8.) Yeah, that binocular thing. That really bugs me. Try a pair of binoculars and see if you see two circles (that touch in the middle). I'm glad I don't.

9.) Every heroine must have certain measurements. They must all be under 34" from the ribs down, and 44" above the ribs. All necks must rival the giraffes. All wrists must be small enough to wear a man's class ring as a bracelet. Yet, these twiggies have all the braun of a 200 lb. man who lifts weights.

10.) Every hero must have bulging biceps, perfect teeth, and pouty lips. Every hero must have tight jeans, or the basic equivelent, and must have a well-defined chest for showing off in the ripped-shirt scene.

11.) The hero's brother never gets the hero's girlfriend, and usually dies.

12.) The 'Comic relief' is not usually the main character. WHY NOT?

NOTE: There are exceptions to each complaint. I can think of more than one for most. I think it's getting better - we're moving farther away from the cheesiness of the 80's.

Well, that's all for now.

Ta ta

Allein Wed Aug 2 19:41:36 PDT 2000

Everyone - I've updated more on my website - it now has all my story up and has a new and improved guestbook. My guestbook is hungry (aww...isn't it cute when it's hungry), please, don't let another guestbook go hungry, please sign it before you leave.

Debra J. Palardy Wed Aug 2 19:05:03 PDT 2000

Does anyone know what happened to the writers notebook that appeared when you brought up I can't seem to find it there. I have it saved so I can get here anyway. I'm just wondering.

Is there another place to find it?

Please let me know if you can.


Laura Wed Aug 2 16:53:13 PDT 2000

As for stupid movie tricks, I still think the most annoying is when in a whole five minute gunfight, none of the main characters reloads. They don't do it as often but they still do it. Or the other one that annoys me is similar to the one with the shotgun. Anyone notice that until a couple of years ago if the character was wearing his "vest" he was totally unscathed and not even winded when shot at close range, he just continued to fight. I'm sorry but even through a vest that hurts, it can even break your ribs. At the least you would have had the wind knocked out of you.

The third one is one you don't notice unless you are looking for one of the other two. YOu ever notice how bad of a shot most movie characters are, they end up emptying at least two clips before hitting the guy. (well, it would be two if they ever reloaded....


Wed Aug 2 16:44:19 PDT 2000

Allein Wed Aug 2 16:27:15 PDT 2000

Christi - College for hampsters. You're funny (in the good way).

Everyone - I saw 'The Perfect Storm' yesterday. Good movie - great effects (I felt sea sick just watching it). The ending was completely the opposite of what I expected and I cried at the end 'cause it was so sad. But, at least it was better than some shipwreak movies released in the past (ie: Titanic).

Christi Wed Aug 2 15:45:16 PDT 2000

Hi you wascals!

Yikes, you scared me for a minute there. I thought you were calling Teekay and I two big breasts, and I was wondering how I was taking it! ;) I’m taking it fine.
You must have been in some kind of bad/depressed/angry mood to throw away years of your writing. I know what you mean though. Many years ago I ripped my journals to shreds and it felt sooooooo good.

Yes, I got Contact, and so far it's awesome! The only problem is that I don't seem to have much time to read. Thanks for sending it, and welcome back!!!

Do you know what they call the guy who barks out the orders during square dancing? I don't either, but I've always wanted his job. Wouldn't it be cool to have total control over a bunch of people in gaudy dresses and overalls?
Anyway, thanks for setting up the dance; it was a blast. I don't know if Arik will ever recover though. Poor thing was wondering all evening why you had to pair him up with little ol' me.

HI Allein!
Glad to hear that your hamster is doing well. You should have known she was pregnant when she began raiding the pickles and ice cream. Oh well, now you have many little hamsters to raise in this big bad world. I wonder how much a college education is running for hamsters nowadays. :)

I still don't feel that I know very much about you. Did I miss the formal introduction? I'm Christi, resident Minister of Love Affairs and silly person extraordinaire. As such, I require some answers to a few questions.

1) Who do you love?

2) Why do you love?

3) Do you love me?

4) Who is this Jher, whom you refer to so often.

5) How do you and Robi know each other?

6) Do you know where I left my left sock?

7) Why do people like iced coffee, yet they will not drink the cold coffee that’s been sitting on their desk for the better part of the day?

Normally this test would be given by Jon, but he's on vacation with Americo and Pussy, so it's up to me to find out the very important answers to these very important questions. They must all be answered by Saturday evening, starting . . . NOW!

Thanks for the mail! My tears have dried up and I am dusting off my knees.

So good to see you all again! Silly me (biffs self upside the head), I remember the 'cigar conversation' now. You know how it goes—in one ear, out the other.

My unfavorite movie trick is the one where a car or truck or train plows into a building or off a road or track or cliff and immediately bursts into flames. It really screwed me up as a child, and I don’t think I’m completely over it.

Chin up! Years from now you’ll remember this time fondly and wish you could go back in time . . . NOT!!! I do remember those times with some fondness, but I’m so glad to be where I am now in life. Just look at it this way—it can only get better from here. And you have your whole life ahead of you to write about it.

I can answer your question to Mark. You’re dancing with me!

Love and greetings to all,


EJ Wed Aug 2 15:29:45 PDT 2000

There are two movie things that bother me. There was a movie not too far back, (I have no sense of time, so bear with me on that) and it was supposed to take place in Washington D.C. I lived in D.C., well Georgetown really, and road the Metro everyday. When this movie, (i don't remeber the title,) came out it's "Metro" was the NYC transite, not the D.C. one, which, as some one you may know are very very different in appearance.
The other was in some action movie I believe. Bruce Willis, (I think) was making a "phone call" from Dulles Airport, (A little ways from D.C. in Va..lived there too, anyway) but the name on the side of the phone booth was Bell Pacific.
I agree with Arik, Mr. Callanio, writing is good.
Later, need to rest, too hot here.

Arik Wed Aug 2 05:09:42 PDT 2000

Teekay - Great. This is a great book. The end is the best part of it. at the end..... just kidding :-).

Tyler Callanio - Writing is good :-).

Mark - Okey..... amm.... what am I doing on the other side?

EVERYBODY - My friend has written a poem, check it out:

Lord of the Flies – poem

The rain is falling on our heads
The storm is on its way.
It’s night, no shelter and no beds,
Our fault! We rested during day.

The beast is lurking somewhere near,
A ritual is starting;
To dance and scream and kill the fear,
Together we are shouting:

“Kill the beast! Cut his throat! Spill his blood!”
Our voices fill the air
We’re treading on the mud
Although our feet are bare.

A friend or beast there in the dark?
We no longer care
We stab with spears and “Kill!” we bark
The slaughter - we all share.

The storm arrives, the hail’s like stone
The scattered children can not see,
The friend they killed is left alone
His body drifts towards the sea.

Jessica Tue Aug 1 22:49:00 PDT 2000

I haven't posted in a while, so I figured that I might as well. I got home in good time, and then had to deal with my mom wanting me to get a job, after I told her that I was taking two weeks from 'real' work and working on my book. She is very discouraging to me. She dosn't want me to write, all she wants me to do is get some 8-5 job and be content with my life. Its a realy good thing that I don't listen to people when my mind is made up. But still it is realy hard to write in that kind of atmosphere. The only support I get for my writing is from my friends, and my mom won't let me see them very often. I hate being a minor. Well, thats the news on my life so far.

Tina Tue Aug 1 21:56:45 PDT 2000

My last post I promise! (Guess I'm in overdrive from two weeks away.)

Chinese food. Made me think about an email funny I received awhile back, a song set to the tune of 'Cat in the Cradle' - at least I think that's what the tune is called. It's an absolutely hysterical spoof about Chinese food, with a chorus something like, 'There's a cat in the kettle a the Peking Moon...' If I've twinged a funny bone drop me an email and I'll send it on.

Allien, a classroom sounds like a great place for your hamsterlings! 'Course, I have a friend whose snake enjoys hamsterlings as a delicacy, with or without the gravy/sauce.

Allein Tue Aug 1 21:40:14 PDT 2000

Everyone - I have updated my webpage.

Howard - I'm gonna remember that and one day when you least expect it, my hampster army will take over the world and you'll be the first to go! Think I'm crazy! Yeah, that's what they all say! That's what they said when they took me away to the padded cell but, you know what? THEY'RE crazy!! Mwah hah hah hah!!

Rachel - I'd wait to go to the music museum. My aunt and brother went in there and they said it was so crowded there was an hour line for just about every thing. It was 20 dollars to go in and they said it was a rip off. I'd maybe put off going there until the newness wears off. My brother said it was just like when we went to Disneyland right after all the kids got out of school. But, I could make it over there most likely, there's other things to do at Seattle Center. And if Dan and the kids want to go in, we could take a spin on the rides or go over to Westlake center and shop. I have a dentist appointment on the 22nd, but I should be able to go. But, if I get the job I'm interviewing for on Thursday, then Monday will be one of my days off and the 21st is a Monday. :) Maybe I could convince my mom to come. Dad's been having trouble with his leg. Anyway, we can figure it out. If you know when you're going, drop me an e-mail and I'll talk it over with my mom. Now that they have 2 passenger ferries, it's easier to get to Seattle.
I've been walking everyday for the past two or three weeks and I'm so full of energy. I've also been feeling better and thinner, but the scale hasn't shown any change in weight. Maybe I've replaced the fat with muscle. But, today I went to the movies and ate popcorn, then we went to dinner at Tony Roma's. Good, but really fattening. We took an extra long walk tonight.
That's all for now.
Viva la Starbucks!!

Teekay Tue Aug 1 21:29:08 PDT 2000


ADAM: Sorry, forgot to respond to your post yesterday, but shall today. This is an idea I read about in a writing magazine, can't remember any of the details like which magazine or who wrote it, buuuuuut, the writer suggested taking a snapshot or a picture from a magazine that you really liked (picture, not mag) and just looking at it and looking at it and then trying to make up a story about it. I think it sounds like a great idea. Haven't yet tried it myself, but next time I'm stuck I'll try it.

GARIESS: It's not something I like to brag about, but I'm sure my mind is much more evil than yours. Being a lady and all, I try to keep it under my hat, but sometimes, just sometimes it falls out and makes big doggy doo everywhere. :)
I just know there are movie tricks that get up my nose, but do you think I can think of any right now? NO! So I shall dwell on it a while and probably come up with something around 2am. Thanks very much!

ARIK: Hi there. When I got Ender's Game, I could not put it down and then this story idea hit me in the head and now all my free time is writing (and the notebook). I am 3/4 of the way through and am very interested, but first I must write BWAH HAHAHHAHAHAHAHzHAHzaH whoops.

Am off to the notebook to read JERRY's addition.

Mark Tue Aug 1 21:17:50 PDT 2000

HOWARD -- I didn't know hamsters came with gravy. I would have figured dimsum sauce. Do they taste like chicken?

ALL -- Howard and I had a conversation about Chinese food one afternoon (yes, we have met face-to-face). Anyhow, not long after that talkaboutchinesefood episode, Howard sent me a scandalous picture of some mysterious meat held in chopsticks and a huge caption saying "Are You Sure That's Chicken?" Having just finished a wonderful quart of Chicken in Garlic Sauce, I laughed hard enough to make my wife come over to see what was so funny. To this day she hasn't eaten another Chinese meal. Some people believe everything they read, some read everything they believe.

I wasn't aware there was a superfluity of hamsters in the world, but there must be or RACHEL wouldn't wonder if classrooms aren't where all the babies go. Gosh, I'm still working on where they come from.

ADAM -- Plot creation. Hmmm. At its simplest, the plot is the plan of action in a story. Point A to Point B to Point C. Coffee House to Parking Lot to Jail Cell: well, how did that happen? that's the plot line. In more complex works, the plot line has an emotional current to it as well. Boy gets out of school with good credentials, begins drinking after work on first job, before and after work on second job, fired from third job, nearly dies on city sidewalk right next to gutter, gets rehab, gets real about it, lives happily ever after.

The really good writers have plot complexity built in at multiple levels and you have to study hard to find them all. They just work beneath the surface.

Ever have a really hard time in your life? Ready to look at it? Take a piece of lined paper and lay it out sideways. Make each line represent a time period (hour, day, week). Draw a line from the left side of the paper about halfway up, make the line go down through the time lines until it bottoms out at about the time you felt your worst. From there bring it back up to about the middle of the page some time frames later.

You have there a basic plot line. Fill in the action and emotion at each time interval and you have a story.

Who was it who got the "Interested In Being Published" email? Howard? Someone sent a sample of that mail out and I looked at the company. They were looking for people to write formulaic stories laid out on just such a plot line. I think there are real lessons to be learned from doing one of those. When I was 29 I had a book-and-a-half of stuff I wouldn't publish, thought I'd take it to the park, put matches under it, and enjoy the warm glow of all that paper doing something actually useful. Between the attic and the street I realized I was all alone and the warm glow would really be pretty empty. A city garbage truck was passing right then. I flung the package into the curved back of that truck then sat on the neighbor's curb and watched the garbagemen fling trashcans of household debris into that same curved, receiving space. The guy who rode the right-hand side of the truck pulled a long hydraulic lever and my package of stories and poems became another compressed part of the city's waste. In my best romantic mood I can imagine all that paper biodegrading benignly in the landfill. In my worst mood I wonder about leftover paper-plant chemicals leaching into the land and water.

Oh, by the way, that little story has a continuous curve to it.

Jerry A.G. Ericsson Tue Aug 1 20:28:45 PDT 2000

Around these parts it is considered great sport to shoot prairie dogs. Hamsters are a mite small but if you let them run close by, a fellow could take them with say a .22 long rifle.............


howard Tue Aug 1 20:04:05 PDT 2000

One of the nicest things about hamsters is that they're mostly all dark meat, and are real good with mashed potatoes and brown gravy...

Rachel Tue Aug 1 19:40:21 PDT 2000

Allein - So you were in Seattle... Hum, you going there again soon? Like say August 20th or 21st? What do yah think (grins). Dan wants to go to the music museum. Do you think your folks would be up for another trip into the big city?

Maybe you could try to unload the hampsters on a teacher. A lot of classrooms in the school where my children attend have a "class pet" it is frequently a hampster. I think that is where all the hampster babies go. At least that is what I like to think...

Best of luck with the hampster situation.

Take care you,


Tina Tue Aug 1 19:39:17 PDT 2000


Movie pet peeves (as opposed to pet hamsterlings... so cute!)! My two particular favourites although I have more...
1)Every time a character looks through binoculars the scene is shown as two interlocking circles. That's just not how binoculars work! Used properly there is only one circular image seen through binoculars, or else you can't focus and your eyes will ache in short order. Whole generations of people don't know how to use binoculars because of what they see in movies.
2)CPR. It's not hard to make it look right, but film makers just can't seem to figure it out! Ask an expert! Ask a boy scout! Ask anyone whose ever taken a good first aid course! It drives me crazy.

Adam, hello! Plot creation? Uhmmmm. Sometimes I dream them. Sometimes I watch people, their actions and emotions and make up scenarios. Sometimes I spend hours and hours straining to come up with events that link where my story is with where it's going. Often I discuss it with my husband, who is my best sounding board and 'cheesy' guage.
Think about your characters and what their honest reactions would be. Letting them act naturally can lead the plot in satisfying directions you didn't plan. Consider people you might know with simliar traits and think of what THEY might do in a situation. Events must fit the characters, and vica versa. I don't mean that they can't be thrust into situations outside their experience/understanding, but their reactions must be in keeping with their personality.
Hope that helps.

Heather, go ahead and send me more. I was thinking about your story while on my holidays. You have a distinct style that really stays with the reader, and I'm itching to read more.:-)

I've been home for over a week now and haven't written a word. Must write.... now! Oh yeah, after I water the grass...


gariess Tue Aug 1 18:23:22 PDT 2000

Hey you guys,

I meant to ask everyone to post some of their all-time favorite stupid movie tricks. I know many of you don't see a lot of movies and god knows, you have good reason not to. But I have been watching them for so long that I repeatedly recognize old stupid tricks that I can't believe are still being done by Hollywood.

I will mention one or two to get you on the path. How about the shotgun blast that blows the victim backward against a wall or out through a window. This one is slowing down a bit, but it was really big in the eighties or thereabouts. How stupid are people supposed to be about the laws of physics? Are we not supposed to know that the guy holding the shotgun is subject to equal force. Not only does getting hit by a shotgun blast not do such a thing ( a guy's body would lose its integrity to so much impact force concentrated in a small area - a hole would be blown through his chest leaving the rest of him more or less unmoved,) but the shooter would likewise be blown backward, or at least suffer a dislocated shoulder. Oh, well, listen to me rant. Anyway, lets hear some of yours.


gariess Tue Aug 1 18:01:57 PDT 2000

Hi Allein,

I just thought I would commiserate with you for a moment on the crisis in world hamster population. You might notice the spelling for your little fur-bearing rodents is just a little different than you have been using, and I am unsure of the use of "hamsterlings," in referring to the young but it is quite charming none-the-less.

Please be aware that hamsters are related to the lemming which I am sure you know is a creature who when its numbers in a given location reach unsustainable proportions, gathers with its neighbors and makes a headlong rush to the sea to end it all. As far as I know, no other creature on earth is known to engage in mass suicides. The strandings of aquatic mammals has been attributed to things other than a compulsion to die.

Hamsters, however, do not do this. They multiply until some human is alarmed at their excessive number in his home and takes them off the local pet store, where he is usually met with little encouragement that he will be fairly paid for his yield. The pet store manager will inform him that he has too many hamsters in stock, already, or he might see the man coming in with a box full of hamsters and run out the back of store. In some unusual circumstance a pet store owner might actually offer to buy the little beasts at fifty cents for the whole lot, but he would have to be in a rare state of magnanimity, or feeling the blush of a three martini lunch. Mostly a person with hamsters to sell to the pet store is met with impenetrable indifference. A few polite words of encouragement might be offered to the seller in the context of a suggestion that he try the pet store in the next county or state. He may be told that hamsters are bringing a good price in Newfoundland, but the only problem is getting them there in an unfrozen state, and still breathing.

Usually the seller simply gives up, often trying to add the rodents into the store’s already ample supply after the manager walks away. Even this is a risky move since some states have a law that prohibits this. It’s a sort of reverse shoplifting statute to prevent unwanted merchandise from being abandoned on a storekeepers premises by other retailers who were either intoxicated, unlucky or just plain stupid enough to order it. So far the only examples of this activity have involved the unloading of thousands of plastic trout that play a god-awful recording of The Impossible Dream, while flexing their tacky-colored, shiny bodies on particularly cheap wall mountings, and of course, hamsters.

Well, I see I have gone on a bit, once again. I hope you don’t find all of this too discouraging, and of course my information is based on my own daughter’s attempt to make a killing in the hamster trade when she was, herself, a teen some many years ago. She did make a killing of sorts, but we agreed never speak about that so I’d best leave things as they are.

Goodbye for now, Allein


Rachel Tue Aug 1 17:05:15 PDT 2000

Mark - The dancing sounds like a great idea (big smiles).

Emily - Glad to hear that my suggestions were helpful.

All - Yup, I am assuming that you all care (grins). My writing is going well. Do you ever have a time when it all just happens so easily? I love that. I have a couple of different projects and know where each of them is going (that isn't always the way it is for me).

Heather - I also am going on vacation soon. I will be leaving on the 14th of August. I know that I am not looking forward to dealing with paper and pencils blowing all over the place at beaches and such. I bet there are people thinking that writing at the beach sounds romantic. Yah, its real romantic unless you actually try to do it (grins). Then it is much less romantic and much more of a pain in the backside.

Xavier - I don't know if you lurk on the notebook or not. In case you do... HI!

Tyler Callanio Tue Aug 1 14:40:56 PDT 2000

Arik, I'm sorry but I stopped writing a few years ago to teach. My life for the last three months and the next six will be about getting Rosie, Shelley, Benjamin, and Antonio's writing off the ground. Then I may think about going back. I've had offers to write for Rolling Stone again, but Spin pays more. hahaha.
Anyway, I want to post Rosie's work before it gets too late this evening. I'll make sure to put it in the Workbook under Short Story, so that everyone can find it easy.
Each of my students is very pleased with this little adventure, esspecially Shelly.
She wanted me to tell GS that, "she couldn't stop laughing and she'd die before naming one of her kids after Mylanta or anything that freakin' stupid. But Dejon stays."
Thanks a mil again,
Tyler Callanio

EJ Tue Aug 1 12:01:40 PDT 2000

Post card from Robi, message on it reads:

"You are paralyzed by the fact that cruelty is often amusing. Let's just hope we accidentally build God. Technology favors horrible people.
In paradise, be home, 1 week, chin up, don't do anything I would do. Much love,

Coupland I think is Michael Coupland, as in Generation X/Shampoo Plant, Coupland.
But what she said makes no sense. Oh, well. Thought it was interesting thought I'd share.

Allein Tue Aug 1 11:59:54 PDT 2000

Hi all,
It's been a while. Remember when I told you that I got a hampster. Well, now I have more. My hampster had hampsterlings. I'm not too thrilled about it having gone through this with my mice. Unfortunately, the pet store won't take them for 4 weeks so either I kill them or I raise them. I suppose I should raise them, since the mommy could be sad if I take them away. Hampsters have feelings too, you know.
On the lighter side, I went to Seattle yesterday. We went to Pike Place Market, Westlake Center, Seattle Center (they have a lot of rides up now and I went on this really cool roller coaster - cool but scary), and the International District.
That's all for now,

Mark Tue Aug 1 11:37:24 PDT 2000

Thinking of TEEKAY's male box, GARIESS got an evil mind. You know Gariess, according to classic tradition the only thing worse than foam rubber falsies is a cardboard box.

HEATHER -- In college lit classes we all got so used to looking up references of one author's phrase to its use in another author's work that most of us had our own copies of the O.E.D. I bought a copy of Bartlett's Quotations so I could reference words found in one place back to their use in an earlier place. The whole literary world began to seem a self-referencing unit where reality is determined not by personal experience but by writerly reference to that which seemed real in an earlier book. (I feel that way about TV these days, I think the people who write TV shows give us only the accepted reality.)

In your lit classes, did you get lit?

Anyway, to wear this pencil-point back into its wooden sheath, let me say it was a very writerly thing that you did by using reference to another writer's cigar-thighed virgins (you don't know who said it? Learn that for the next exam).

MARY, RHODA, CHRISTI, TEEKAY, RACHEL -- one side of the floor
HOWARD, LITTER, ARIK, JERRY, JACK -- the other side
Start the music.

Anyone left out? Hey, the door's open. And Sasquatch ain't a Bouncer, he's a Greeter.

Tina Tue Aug 1 08:19:22 PDT 2000

GAAAASSSSP (Take large breath of air)

Trying to catch up. On the notebook, and the workbook, and life.


Congratulations Rachel!
Christi, did you ever get 'Contact'? I sent it out awhile ago...



Arik Mon Jul 31 22:20:12 PDT 2000

Rachel - I, have no fear. The one who should have it is my next son... having a chineese name!

Teekay - How are u doing with Ender's game? You like it?

Tyler Callanio - hey, Tyler, We'v seen your students work..... do u have any, I really want to read it :-).

gariess Mon Jul 31 22:08:11 PDT 2000

Hello to Howard, Jerry, and Arik,

Teekay, and Christi, you are two big breaths of fresh air.

Teekay, your reference to mail in the box. Could it be possible that you have an even more evil mind than I do? I had to puzzle over that for a moment.

Christi, Tucson, Hmm. I have never been to the Southwest. I always wanted to go to Albuquerque and visit Don Imus.

Jerry Lee,
I think I remember that New Year's Eve party in 1960.

I can't help being curious about the Chinese food wholesaler who wants to sell bales of chow mein noodles to people in the Notebook. I should mention that I received no such solicitation in my email, and I was voted most likely to by chinese food in bulk by my high school graduating class. Had a bit of a weight problem in those days, but I'm happy to say that since that time, I haven't done a damn thing about it.

You did it again, I am trying to read efficiently through the posts and you mention thighs. I quote, "Slaps cigar scented thigh." Okay, you mentioned thigh, not thighs, arrest me. Why is it that I can get so distracted by a reference to the female form? It isn’t as though I never have the opportunity in real life to see a female thigh. God knows I live on Cape Cod and this is summer. I practically have to hide in my house to avoid thighs… and other stuff. Sexuality is a grand driving force that makes fools out of otherwise very rational men.

My friend Neil, a video store owner, invited a couple of us to go to a video sales convention. This was in Connecticut and it included a section for the porn industry. This sectioned off display area was filled with bare-breasted models who were posted at the individual booths of the distributors. Just so there can be no mistake, I am not speaking of bikini clad bosoms or knobs adorned in any way whatever. These were totally naked breasts. Talk about product identification. It was titty city, a veritable booby bonanza. There must have been a million dollars in augmentation surgery jiggling around in that hall.

My point of course is that a man’s attraction to forbidden body parts is very short lived in the midst of plenty. After a little while (five or six hours, at a guess,) These ordinarily scrumptuous looking jugs have no more provocative effect on the eye than a forearm or a knee. Our attraction to that which we are not priveleged to see at will is only created by the manipulation of our minds. Whatever things that women (or social restrictions) conspire to keep us from seeing are exactly the things we wind up wanting to look at. It could have been anything. Suppose we were taught that we weren’t supposed to see girls chins. Guys would drive around in cars looking to see how much chin they get a look at. "Whoa! Did you see the mandible on that chick? Turn around and go back, man. That was some righteous chin. I’m talking major facial structure, here!"

Well, I don’t remember who it was, but one of you said a while back, "Distractions come and go, but chins are here for the long haul." I wonder what I was intending to talk about when I came in here. Probably something about writing. Well, it wont be the first noble intention of the mind laid waste by a renegade eye, not to mention the hor…… "Shut up, will you? I told you not to mention that."


Jerry A.G. Ericsson Mon Jul 31 21:52:27 PDT 2000

Left a short story in the workbook.

Jerry A.G. Ericsson Mon Jul 31 21:31:10 PDT 2000

Heather - do as I did on our recent camping excursion. I took an entire tower system along, put in a TV card to add to its utility. Then when everyone else left to shop (I don't like shopping!) I turned on the computer and watched the TV card for awhile. Never did do any writing or anything useful, just played pac man and watched the TV. My 6 year old granddaughter thought it was the best thing since Saturday morning cartoons though. She spent the three days and nights with grandma and grandpa. Had a great time. I know the rules, no computers - telephones - televisions etc. while camping, this was the first, last and only time I will do that, but it was fun none the less.

Write On!

Heather Mon Jul 31 19:35:26 PDT 2000

My cigar scented thighs caught your
ATTENTION, did they?

It was a reference to Litter's (or was it Americo's) virgins with cigar scented thighs from wayyyy back about a month ago.

Oh, the days of youth and innocence, and unbuckled laughter.
Still cackling... but now it winds me.

(That was supposed to be a joke--)

Christi hurrah! You are back too!

The gang's almost all here. Litter, where art thou?
Americo is away until mid-august, just in time for my disappearance for a ten day vacation. No lap-tops allowed.
But it's not so dark aged that I won't have my trusty pens and paper and real light from lightbulbs.

What's that? Camping with lightbulbs?
Thought I'd add some new interest to my bathing suit profile...

Off to make some semblance of sense... elsewhere.
Dizzy, and reminiscing about that too.


Teekay Mon Jul 31 17:12:25 PDT 2000

TYLER: On a reread my last post to you sounded like I thought the memoirs were boring. Didi not mean that, only that mine may be.

CHRISTI: HEATHER has a cigar scented thigh cos she rolls her cigars on them.

-see I do read ALL the posts.

Teekay Mon Jul 31 17:10:14 PDT 2000

Hi All,
HOWARD: I am so glad you are back. I can't seem to remember you getting permission to leave, but as you are back now I shall overlook it.

CHRISTI: Mail in you mail box. I hate that term. Thank God the spelling's different.

RHODA: I am feeling hideously guilty that I still haven't got around to your chapters, but this book?? I'm writing is taking all my free time at the moment, my fingers practically itch to get to the pen when the baby's asleep. It's a fantastic feeling and I can see it all in my head and I know where it's going and new ideas keep popping up and it's simply exhilerating and I go to bed at night feeling extremely satisfied that I have achieved something. If I happen to miss a day it just gnaws at me and I really hate it when that happens.

Was feeling a bit neglected about not getting and chingwing email thing. I went to check my mail to see if maybe I had, but there was even better.

TYLER: I thought the writers were real, but were doing fictional memoirs. I'm pretty sure I'd make mine up so's not to bore anybody stupid. :)


EJ Mon Jul 31 14:58:21 PDT 2000

Glad to hear the writing's going well, excluding the editing, redoing, throwing out, finding bottle of gin, drinking bottle of gin, throwing bottle of gin against the wall along with mess of writing drafts, yelling, and eventually falling asleep on your couch. (hahaha, sorry.)
I don't like gin though.
Anyway, moving along to nothing of importance, I've been toying with some "stuff" think I have a rough roguh rough draft of something that could become something, so I might post it in the Workbook, you know if I feel like it.
(Thanks Rachel for the advice on how to fix it, I paced around my apartment reading it out loud, faxed it to Jher, who told me to trash it and start at the "begining".)
So, anyway, off to post, and accept my fate of being slaughtered. Meat...interesting thought.
P.S. Robs? You still breathing, babe?

Jerry Lee Mon Jul 31 13:52:50 PDT 2000

Yo all!

EJ: I was born in early September. (A Virgo) Without creating more of a mental picture for myself than is absolutely necessary, I believe that I was concieved at a New Year's Eve party in 1960. Considering that they were divorced at the time, only to re-marry in February.....
But to address the story start issue, I seem to have no problem with the beginnings of stories. In fact, the middle comes easily enough, sometimes. It's the ending/finishing bits that turn me around. Maybe a little more depth of thought and the endings will make sense to me.

FNG's: Welcome to all y'all! Fresh Meat!!! Grist for the mill!!! Just kidding, this is a fairly benign place...usually. May your story-telling scare the pants off your readers...but only if you want them to.

Jerry Lee

Tyler Callanio Mon Jul 31 13:30:26 PDT 2000

Hello everyone, hope all is well.
I just finished reading through the comments posted by Teekay. (Yes, thank you Jerry for your email, I found the critique page no problem.)
And yes, Teekay, you are right, "one is never to assume." Shelly, Antonio, Benjamin, and Rosie, are real people that I have the destinct honor of teaching.
My goal for them was to tell their story, I did not edit, change, or try to change it. All it did was put copy and paste it onto the computer. Even things like, "laundry mat", I want them to learn to right from the gut. As a teacher, as a writer, as a person, that's my job.
I owe you all a big thank you for your assistance in making these young people the best writers they can be.
I'm going to get Rosie's work up on the Workbook ASAP. Then I'm going to allow them to pick selections of their work that they wrote about each other. More details on that later. Thanks a million again!
Tyler Callanio
P.S. Arik, I am a nice guy.

Christi Mon Jul 31 11:27:08 PDT 2000

Hi Howard! I wish I'd have extended an invite to you to come visit us here in Tucson, since you were making the rounds near here. Well here it is officially. If anyone here is ever in the Tucson, Arizona area, a hearty invitation is hereby extended. :) If I were sasquatch, I would offer a hairy invitation. Oh, the humanity!

Welcome to all the newcomers!

I'm sorry for your page numbering woes, but in truth, all I could think about was that you had a cigar scented thigh. I know that this should be left up to the men in our group to comment on, but I have a very very curious mind. You can't just go and say something like that without raising some eyebrows. Now how would this have happened, eh? Have you been working in a cigar factory, rolling cigars the way they used to, or is it something even more interesting? Inquiring minds and all, you know.

Am I so out of the loop that I don't even receive unsolicited emails anymore? *Sniff* I feel so . . . unsolicited. :(

Teeeeeekay. Psssst, Teeeeeekay. Mail in my box before the end of the day or you're in big trouble, missy. (Shuffles feet) Please? (Falls to the floor with head in hands, sobbing wretchedly)

Love and smooches to all, and an apology for missing anything important in the last week,


Heather Mon Jul 31 08:38:16 PDT 2000

Did anyone get an email several months ago from an asian company selling artwork? Bulk artwork that is. I wouldn't call that art. More like framed posters.


Exhaustion starting to grind at my innards.
Eyes heavy.
Time to make breakfast.


Jerry A.G. Ericsson Mon Jul 31 07:55:23 PDT 2000

Owhard - Interesting on those mysterious E-Mails - I have 4 different E-Mail Address (A long story I shan't go into now) but the only one that received two of those unsolicated E-Mails was the one I post here. Maybe we have a fan who has yet to show his face?


Heather Mon Jul 31 01:19:05 PDT 2000

Welcome HOME Howard!

I also received those wacky emails, but deleted them without opening them. Maybe they have been canvassing the whole neighbourhood.
No. We don't want any, thanks.

Got some decent writing in again tonight (ie: nothing big to eradicate) so it looks like I'll have this chapter half written (or better!) before sundown on July 31st. With the way things are humming along now, I might just be able to stay on schedule and have the entire beefy manuscript written by December. I didn't promise to have it completely edited by then, did I?

Chapter 5 has just entered the realm of 25K. I know, I know (*slaps cigar-scented thigh*) 25K is not that huge. Still better than the 16K it was four days ago...

I do have one problem that is annoying me. Page numbering.
Oh, the woes that have wrung my soul!
For some ungodly reason, page 132 decided it wanted to change its name to page 453. A sweet, endearing thought for page 132, but a lie nevertheless.
When trying to reset the page number value to zero (to try again with 132) I just heard protesting from my speakers. The protesting is, no less, the honk of the sound system announcing, 'YOU CAN'T DO THAT!'
No matter my efforts to kill it, the page tirelessly rescusitates the vigilant 453. So I supressed page numbering for the time being. I can't concentrate well with an evil rogue laughing from the upper right hand corner.

Perhaps I should don the hat of a digital plumber and threaten my PC.

Pagenumberless in Guelph.

Jack Beslanwitch Mon Jul 31 01:11:37 PDT 2000

p.s. The possibility even exists once I have some assurance of the site in question of linking from menu bar and having a particular person maintaining a particular subject area or site so long as we can agree on a single look and feel.

The Name of those helping would be listed on the main page. Just a thought.

Jack Beslanwitch Mon Jul 31 01:07:25 PDT 2000

Mark: Occasional archiving of the Notebook is not a problem. But where I really could use a hand is reviewing different link references suggested for and make the judgment call on where they should be placed and how to described them. The biggest culprits are Commercial web sites, especially manuscript editors, and making the judgment call as to whether they are commercial frauds. Generally they are suggesting that they are writer references when charging hundreds for reviewing a manuscript which I term fraud. I have a large backlog that I would not mind having reviewed, the more egregious examples tossed, but the more interesting ones written up with an appropriate link. I am willing if I have some assurence that the persons in question are competent in HTML and I have some assurence that their judgment is sound to help maintain It would be on a case by case bases and at least intitially would be me passing along the links and descriptions and I would be making the additions.

I really would not mind different parts of becoming a shared responsibility and a means for becoming a group maintained responsibility. If others are willing to help in this I really would appreicate it. My new job with means that I will have a great deal less time to maintain a site that I hope will continue in its prominence on the internet. Please feel free to contact me and discuss this. Take care.\

Rachel Sun Jul 30 22:59:46 PDT 2000

Arik - Have no fear! I doubt that anyone would think that any of the baby names we are thinking of are overly normal (GRINS)! They also are not the sort of names that would leave one thinking "Now why would they give a child a name like that?"

Take care you,


Mary Sun Jul 30 22:39:08 PDT 2000

Valerie: Dont think that i forgot about you sweetie, be with ya soon. (psst...i like your story, very much)

Mary Sun Jul 30 22:37:37 PDT 2000

Howard and Jerry: I also received chinghsin emails(3)which i deleted post-haste without opening.

Arik Sun Jul 30 21:45:23 PDT 2000

Rachel - This is nice :-). But the name Joe is too.... how do I say it... used? normal? However, I liked the story :-). If I had a boy now, I whould call him.... I don't know... but a Japaneese name whould be cool, won't it?

gariess - Thank you for your edvise. I coulden't thought about that myselfe. The most important question was it on perpouse or not.

Tyler Callanio - Thank you. now I know you are a very nice person :-). I think it is a great idea to post their work here. I'll read it and tell them what I think as soon as I'll have time :-).

Jerry A.G. Ericsson Sun Jul 30 19:57:50 PDT 2000

Howard - I have two of those E-Mails myself, opened one (I know a guy shouldn't but I was curious) it is some sort of advertisement flyer about chinese noodles or somthing on that order. It is in .doc format, and my virus scanner says it will protect for viruses in that format, but it never lit up or anything, hopefully it is just the add, my computer hasn't melted down or anything, so I think I am safe.

Today is Pinochle day in Lemmon SD. Had to go over to moms and spend the day playing 4 then 5 then later 6 handed pinochle. I think we won 3 or 4 of the games, but I can't be sure, as they all seem to melt together. Was a nice day anyhow, but I haven't had time to get to the workbook and view the new additions. Will try later tonight.

Howard Sun Jul 30 19:27:56 PDT 2000

Greetings! I'm baaaack!
Just got home a couple of hours ago, and have lots of catching up to do. Drove over 600 miles today (woke up in Richmond, Indiana this morning), the last leg of our 5000+ mile round trip to Arizona. Now checking the mail -- anybody know anything about a person names chinghsin? I've got five or six emails from that userid, all with attachments. I don't think I'll open them.
The Grand Canyon is still there, but I think a couple of the big rocks have been moved. Sedona and Oak Creek Canyon are as beautiful as ever. The meteor crater at Winslow is still awesome, and the lava field at Sunset Crater is beyond belief!
Hi to all the newbies, and I'll catch up on the posts and all as soon as possible. Right now I can't see too well. Gotta get some zzzzzzzzzs

Adam R. Wehn Sun Jul 30 18:44:20 PDT 2000

I could use some help with plot creation.

Teekay Sun Jul 30 17:46:26 PDT 2000

BENJAMIN & ANTONIO: have left a crit for you in the workbook.

Teekay Sun Jul 30 17:16:43 PDT 2000

SHELLEY: I really liked your writing piece. It was very short, but I liked what I saw and it made me want to know more.
I especially loved the ending where your kids asked what you want to be, it seemed to connect it all together yet also lay it open for the next part of the story. (It makes sense to me.)
Just one thing, I think it would be good to see a little description of where you live thrown in. No need to focus on it, just a few words here and there will build a picture in the readers mind and get them feeling really involved because they can actually picture it all.
Hope it helps.

Are these real memoirs or fictional memoirs? I was assuming they were fictional. One should never assume, but I'm a slow learner.

MARY: Hilarious. At least you would have gone with a smile on your face. We have so much to be grateful to GARIESS for. Hahhahahahahahah.

HEATHER: I simply love your posts.

Am off to the workbook to see what offerings there are.

Mary Sun Jul 30 13:37:49 PDT 2000

EJ: Guess it is those long cold winters...however, I should have elaborated probably depends upon which part of the country you are in. (Or which part of the world rather). Base it around where you set your story. :-)

EJ Sun Jul 30 13:37:25 PDT 2000

Okay, obviously I can't count. Most babies are concieved in February, (Val. day perhaps?) Just wanted to correct my mistake before every hounded me for my inability to count the months. Anyway, later guys.


Rachel Sun Jul 30 13:11:58 PDT 2000

Arik - I liked the name that you suggested. It is always fun to hear names that people like. I ran into a girlhood friend yesterday afternoon. We were both at the park with our children. Her mother was with her so it was really a fun little reunion. Her mother asked me to name the baby Joe if it is a boy. She gave her daughter quite the look at told her that she is still waiting for SOMEBODY to use the name Joe. I had a little laugh. She likes the girls names that I have selected at this point. So far nobody here has guessed on any of my names...

EJ Sun Jul 30 09:56:44 PDT 2000

Thanks Mary. So if most human babies are born in November then most human babies are concieved in January? Well then. Interesting. I was born the day before Halloween, close enough to November....anyway, thanks again.


Mary Sun Jul 30 09:20:59 PDT 2000

EJ: If you mean human babies, the answer is least thats what my DR. told me. If you mean ALL babies it is probably April.(Which by the way is the 2nd most 'prolific'(?) month for humans)

EJ Sun Jul 30 08:58:19 PDT 2000

Hey everyone.

Does anyone know in which month or season most babies are born? I need it for the book. I can't seem to find the answer anywhere on the net.....erg.



Tyler Callanio Sun Jul 30 05:34:51 PDT 2000

Hello everyone, sorry to take up so much space on your message board, but I just added Benjamin and Antonio's work to the Workbook, under the "Short Story" collection page. (Just wanted you to be able to find it easily.) Thanks again,
Tyler Callanio

Tyler Callanio Sun Jul 30 05:10:17 PDT 2000

I'm so very sorry, Arik, I skipped over your message on accident without reading it. In no way was I trying to ignore you.
Here's is what you seem to have missed, Arik.

Hello Notebook Members,
My name is Tyler Callanio and I teach a Creative Writing Class two nights a week in Brooklyn, New York City. I wrote for many different magazines before I became a teacher and came across this website much by accident. In my class I have four exceptional students that I feel would benefit from a little exposer to the criticism from other writers, aside from myself.
My proposal is that these four students be allowed to post a bit of what they write on your website and have you give them constructive help in making their writing better.
If anyone has a problem with this I understand, I will check back in a day or so to see if there are any objections to these four students posting a bit of their work for all of you to read and critique. Thank you for your time and patience,
Tyler Callanio

gariess Sat Jul 29 23:50:02 PDT 2000


I don't believe Mr. Callanio is ignoring you. He probably just hasn't read your post. Why don't you go to the latest archive. That will explain everything.


Arik Sat Jul 29 23:17:42 PDT 2000

Tyler Callanio - Are you ignoring me on perpouse?

Debra J. Palardy Sat Jul 29 18:43:02 PDT 2000


I'm always afraid to be critical of the work of others. I'm afraid if I say something that hurts, I will damage them. I'm afraid if I say only good things, I might hurt their growth. I'm afraid if I say nothing, I will look as if I don't care. Let's face it, I'm afraid.

I will say I wanted to hear more. I still do.


Heather Sat Jul 29 17:12:12 PDT 2000

I think everyone missed the real give-away in Shelly's piece. The ending.

When her child asks her, "What do you want to be when you grow up?"
Shelly holds vivid dreams and goals for the future, just as her children do. (Hence, the parallel Gariess liked)

The character Shelly sounds young, and she is still living at home. Could she herself be barely an adult? Children often think of parents as 'not grown up yet'. Parents cry, have temper tantrums, and get stubborn, too. The main difference is that Mom and Dad get paid for their work, and Mom and Dad use the toilet.

Do we ever stop aiming for things, changing our goals to accomodate new things and horizons? Not until we die.
So, in that aspect, we never truly grow up and become 'the fireman'. We are always in flux between being the parent, teacher, scuba diver, rock climber, stripper, doctor/nurse, lawn mower, story teller, singer, babysitter, diaper changer, playground equipment (just testing to see if everyone was paying attention), Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, fireman, policeman, and lightbulb changer (heh heh). We are jacks (and jaquelines) of all trades.

We are not ever just one thing.

So, what do you want to be when you grow up?
What if we never stop growing?

Thanks for sharing your work, Shelly. You have a heap of promise in the writing field. I didn't see anything needing advice in your piece.


gariess Sat Jul 29 14:51:58 PDT 2000

It's good to see that Shelly got a fair shake from the NB folks. Many of the responses were quite thoughtful, more so than my own, which leaned heavily on my own brand of silliness. Still, I felt we were short on advice and long on positive reinforcement. That's fine, because we all seem to find a lot of merit in Shelly's work. Still, I find myself wanting because I could only manage a remark or two on grammar and typos. I was rather hoping someone else could suggest improvements that I was unable to see. Maybe we can do better with something of Shelly's in the future. I hope she continues to post.


Mary Sat Jul 29 13:22:20 PDT 2000

TYLER: Please don't apologize....nobody minds...really. Just a suggestion.:-)

Tyler Callanio Sat Jul 29 09:45:36 PDT 2000

Thank you everyone for your comments in regard to Shelly, I had them printed out and delivered to her at work so she could read them on her break. I'm sure she'd be very pleased to know that other people aside from me think she's on the right track.
My apologizes for not putting their writing in the Workbook. Something I will do from now on. I suppose then, you can send your comments to me via my email address. So, I shall add their the rest of their memoir pieces in as soon as I get a chance. Thank you all again so much for your help!
Tyler Callanio

Arik Fri Jul 28 23:38:16 PDT 2000

Tyler Callanio - looks like I missed the idea... you are a teacher and.... please tell it to me once again (I wasn't here).

The only thing I did understood is that I have to welcome some new ppl in here?(I think)... so WELCOME EVERYONE :-).

Tina Fri Jul 28 23:29:48 PDT 2000

Hello everyone!

I haven't read a single post in almost two weeks! When I returned from my holiday, my computer broke down! (Just the fan, nothing serious) I just wanted to say 'hi' to all and I'll try to catch up soon. Just don't know when. I see some new names. Hello! Hello! Hello!

My holiday was singular and excellent. I wrote for four days non stop, no interuptions except excellent food and the odd beach trip to cool off. If only I could spend that much time writing at home.

Off to bed now. See y'all soon! :-)

Jerry A.G. Ericsson Fri Jul 28 22:02:49 PDT 2000

Shelly - I liked the way you presented yourself in your intro. Seems it is broken down the way any good story should be with a straightforward beginning, a strong middle, and a nice ending to wrap it all up.

Write on!


Jerry A.G. Ericsson Fri Jul 28 21:47:12 PDT 2000

Mary - I used to be against hunting, hated to see those little wild animals killed just to fill the stew pot. Then one day several of the cute little deer ran in front of my cherry 64 merc, and totaled it. Since that time, I applied for and received hunting licenses, then took pleasure in getting even with them. Did that every year till I hurt my back and was forced to stop hunting. I still get the urge every year though, and when I see those fine little animals crossing the road, my trigger finger gets itchy.


mark Fri Jul 28 21:07:41 PDT 2000

JACK - congrats, and Hey, if you need a hand with administrative matters here, I'll volunteer {Sgt. Ruddle tried to tell me not to volunteer in any organization. I hope he's still alive so this doesn't make him spin}

SHELLY -- Here's what I see in your writing
A nice focus : Four people sharing an apt and their lives

Mama - works to pay the bills
Shelly - works toward a goal
Dejon and LaTiva have goals, in a kid sort of way "wanna be when I grow up" kind of thing.

The adults are the focus here and the one with the most attention is Shelly. Shelly's goals and motives are given a bit of explanation. Mama's goals and motivation are unstated. I wouldn't worry about the kids' goals yet, in writing, as in real life, they should be changeable. I must add that it is a really good touch to put in the kids' goals following Shelly's (I'll get to a story on that).

I guess since this is autobiographical you might know more about Shelly's character than the others. Remember, on the page, or on the computer screen, the character Shelly is just a character in writing. That's not your soul out there. I can tell you, that's a big lesson.

OK. The story. When people read, they generally expect to see something life-like. As writers we get praise from readers for making fiction that looks like it could be true. the best way to practice making stories look like they could be real-life is to actually describe something from real-life. With practice you can write from imagination and nobody will know the difference. I liked your touch of Shelly's goals leading to Kids' goals because it looks like what I expect of kids, I expect them to imitate. I have a cousin with hemorrhoids. Visiting there one afternoon before he got home, his three-year-old came from the bathroom, turned slowly toward his tiny chair, put his little hands on the chair arms, and sloooowwwly sat down, ending it all with a large sigh, "Aahhhhh." I could hardly contain myself, but it was obvious that he was directly imitating his dad. From his perspective, if that's the way Dad does it, then it's the best way and the right way. At three years old he was innocent of any guile; in fact he may have trying to show me that he knew perfectly well how to use a chair. We find many examples in life of kids growing up to be just like their examples.

Also notice in the story that

I like the symmetry of that, mother passes to child and that child becomes mother who passes to children.

Keep coming back.
Debra J. Palardy Fri Jul 28 20:43:53 PDT 2000


Hi: Of course, no one expects you to expose yourself. I'm just kidding. Remember my in the way back of many moon postings ago, I said I can take a joke and give one too?
Well that's what this is. I'm sorry! Where's the delete button on this page.

As for your neighbor, she might be at home doing hundreds of sit-up and weight training so she will be acceptable for your viewing pleasure the next time you two might cross paths.

Whaat!! It could happen!

Well it couuld!

Maybe I better lay off watching the Golden Girls on Lifetime TV at 11:00 for a while.

GS you are turly a funny man. I admire that in a man. Anyone whom asks me what my idea of a perfect man would be, I say a perfect man is a dignified goof. Lucky me it's my husband. He's a perfect combination between Batman and Gilligan.

Mary Mary Mary watch out for those deer!


gariess Fri Jul 28 19:44:07 PDT 2000

Okay, that last post was NOT from me, it was from two other people. That's how long I was writing my real last post.


gariess Fri Jul 28 19:43:58 PDT 2000

Okay, that last post was NOT from me, it was from two other people. That's how long I was writing my real last post.


gariess Fri Jul 28 19:41:24 PDT 2000

That last post was from me.


I must tell you that I can not bear the responsibility of being the last thought a person has on this earth. I have considered the suggestion of posting a photo in the NB, but I fail to see how doing that would alleviate the situation, not to mention how inept I might be at connecting a scanner, if my performance at changing light bulbs is no better than it is. Besides, last week when Mrs. Radcliffe was waddling at full tilt away from my slider window, I am still not certain whether it was in her panic to find her cat, Artemis, or if she was fleeing from a vision so unthinkable she could do nothing less. I have noticed that her blinds have been drawn for several days, and the newspapers seem to be piling up in her driveway. By the way, what does it mean when somebody hangs a big bunch of garlic on their front door?


The Old Man Fri Jul 28 19:25:13 PDT 2000

The security aspect of my job is a pain, but one of the real benefits is that I can read the postings on Jack's notebook without the possibility of an annoying supervisor walking in on me.
The secure computer's screen was lit today when I came in. Not a problem, Frank had probably just left to go on break. I punched the button on the bank of switches and the bright blue and yellow background of the 'net computer filled the screen. Big yellow letters saying "Insecure Network" blazed brightly in comparison to the dull grey of the secure connection.
A quick double-tap to the big E on the left side of the screen and in seconds, the "Writer's Notebook" logo replaced the annoying glow of our manditory background.
Here it was, the first of the english teacher's students had posted a bit of writing to be analysed by us "experienced" writers.
Although they've never read anything I've ever written, and are real unlikely to, I am a pretty experienced when it comes to writing, I guess. Until one or two of them has a need to know about national security, I guess they'll just have to take my word for it. The members of the notebook seem a knowledgeable bunch though, and have accepted me with no proof of that experience. I like that about them.
The story reads like a biography about a 22 year-old living in what seems to me to be the less affluent section of town. With two kids and her Mom, she tries to learn how to get out of her present circumstance, but is worried that her kids are going to be trapped in the same cycle that she has found herself caught up in.
It seems like her kids have had some really good influences though because they both seem to have picked what you would call "helpful" professions for when they grow up. I'm sure that without a strong positive role model, they might have answered differently. I know I would have.
I don't doubt that the young woman is worried that if she doesn't make a place outside of her present world, that her kids might be taken up like her brothers seem to have been. I wish I could tell her that she already knows the way out.
Yeah, I know, everbody's got a story to tell and mine's not too far off from the one she told. I wish she could know that desire is probably the only thing she needs. She wouldn't believe me, anyway I suppose, however true it is.
A good job of writing, though. She gets her story out in clear language. She even has a shade or two of underlying content that she probably understands is better left un-typed. I like that. It shows that she doesn't write to to the lowest common denominator, but rather respects the intelligence of her audience. All-in-all, I'd say she did a really good job. She no doubt has a knack for this kind of thing. Her instructor did a good job of picking her out of the crowd.
Maybe she'll take up writing as a profession like me. It's not much, and I'll never be rich, but oh, well, at least I got out with it.
Well, the clock is ticking and that report won't wait for very long. SEE'ya.

Rachel Fri Jul 28 19:22:57 PDT 2000

Jack - Congratulations!

To the teacher and his students. Hi to all of you. Hope you enjoy the site.

Arik - Americo will be back on the 11th of August.

Fri Jul 28 19:19:02 PDT 2000


Welcome to our forum. I have looked at your post and I find some interesting things. Your first sentence: "My Mama works six days a week at a laundry mat to support our family." is very effective for engaging the readers interest (already I am weeping.) "Laundromat" is one of those recently invented words. Your translation into "laundry mat" is a more natural expression but I don’t believe you mean that your mama goes to work at a big floor covering upon which people put their laundry. Then, of course, I have not been to Hucksley Heights, and if I had, I might just find out that I don’t know everything. Anyway, watch out for those kind of word traps when you write. You will find that you can not completely trust the English language.

Now, this has nothing to do with your writing, but I notice that in your piece you mention that you want a better life for your son, Dejon. I thought that if Dejon is not too old yet, you might try naming him something that doesn’t sound like it goes on a ham sandwich. Seriously though, if the kid cries a lot, you might be able to get a whole new one. Kid, I mean, not sandwich. This way you could try out different names, see what works.

Really, a VCR comes with a warranty and isn’t a kid more important than a VCR? Well, the name thing isn’t the worst that can happen. I have this friend, a brother, who was named after something from a drug store: Tylenol Banks, had a sister… Mylanta, I think. People really get into strange fashions with names, just ask my aunt, Bill, if you think I’m kidding. No, this is for real. My aunt’s name was Leora when she was born. This kid wanted to send HERSELF back to the hospital. She hated her name, said she would rather be called, Bill. Well, you guessed it. Eighty-two years later and she’s still Bill. Now, her son, Debbie, is a different story altogether.

Well, it looks like I got a little off the point. Your story sounds well organized and that is important. It expresses very well your feelings as a mother and a person, and it engages my interest in seeing you succeed over your obstacles. I am sure your teacher will tell you about the commas and other stuff like that so I won’t take up your time with those details (and show you how little I know about commas and other stuff.) Writing is like anything else, really. You learn a little at a time. Good luck with your HS diploma. I don’t know what Hucksley is like, but I hope you get to that better place. Keep us posted.


P.S. Some of these people who talk about light bulbs… well, I would just ignore them.

Jack Beslanwitch Fri Jul 28 19:14:10 PDT 2000

Just noticed the strange attachment of the form at the bottom of the Notebook. Not sure how that happened, but I have archived. Also, for those wondering, the interview was successful and I am part of the 40 hour a week crowd again. Which also means I will be getting here catch as catch can. Take care.

Fri Jul 28 14:29:12 PDT 2000

Oh, and TYLER: Weird postings are almost a requirement here! hahahaha

Mary Fri Jul 28 14:23:41 PDT 2000

Me again....probably would have helped if I had let you in on how to go about getting your passwords. Just click on the Workbook icon above and fill out the form...sorry.

Mary Fri Jul 28 14:20:08 PDT 2000

SHELLY: What a start! You should be proud of what you have here. Sometimes first person present tense can bite you in the butt, but you have pulled it off nicely so far. Look forward to seeing what else you have.

TO ALL THE STUDENTS AND TEACHER: There is an increasingly large population of people who visit here. That is wonderful. I love that!!! I think that to keep a certain amount of order to the postings and make sure that everyone gets the attention they deserve We should post our poems and shorts on the Workbook pages.(Not right here in the Notebook) You will need a password (which is easy to get) to use the Workbook and critique pages. If there is any reason why you cant use the workbook, I personally hope you still post your works right here in the Notebook. It would just be ideal if you could access the Workbook.

I like the fact that you are posting the memoirs on the Notebook especially, because they act as a sort of informal introduction.

Just for the record, I have absolutely no authority at this site whatsoever, and I am not speaking for everyone...just trying to help. :-)


Fri Jul 28 14:06:53 PDT 2000

Shelly Black
The Bronx

"My Mama works six days a week at a laundry mat to support our family. I'm the youngest of four, my three older brothers are all in trouble with the law, so it's just Mama, my six-year-old son, Dejon, my three-year-old daughter, LaTiva, and me. Dejon and LaTiva are growing up in the same apartment I did in Hucksley Heights. I want better for my babies. That's why I'm trying so hard to get my high school diploma.
Everyone always talks about how you have to rise above where you come from, but it's not that easy. I look at all this rich "ghetto stars," who rose out of places like Hucksley Heights, but I can't figure out how they did it. For about as much as I can gather getting this last credit toward my diploma is a step toward getting Dejon and LaTiva to a better place then Hucksley.
Dejon says he wants to be a firefighter when he grows up. LaTiva wants to be a doctor. They asked me yesterday what I wanted to be. "

Tyler Callanio Fri Jul 28 14:03:45 PDT 2000

Thank you Notebook Members for allowing my students to begin posting their work on your website. It means a great deal to them and to me to have the opportunity to share their work with you. I asked them for honesty, complete honesty, their writing topics maybe simple, but I want them to find their stories before they start on anyone else's. This week I asked them to post excerpts from the "memoir" part of their assignments.
Tyler Callanio

Okay, guys, before each piece of writing I would like you to use this heading;
Location in New York City

My example-
Tyler Callanio
30ish (like I'm going to tell you how ancient I am, "post twenties" hahaha.)
Brooklyn, NYC

Let's see what you've got!
(Oh, my students are Antonio, Rosie, Shelly, and Benjamin, just so you know they're not just giving strange postings. Thanks again!)

Litter DRIVE BY POSTING Fri Jul 28 13:38:05 PDT 2000

Hi and bye -- off on holiday for a week to a Christian Arts Festival. Back next Sunday.

Mark and Teekay - thanks muchly for the comments on GIAGG short story.

That's it


Debra J. Palardy Fri Jul 28 13:08:09 PDT 2000



Okay fine, I've done the same thing. At least no one's been hurt, yet.

I think that the only fair thing is for GS to get into his shorts, get the bulbs, stand on a chair, take a picture and post it somewhere so we all can see it. They can be working bulbs. We don't expect you to look for dead ones.

GS for the love of Pete, don't wait till someone gets hurt!


John Fri Jul 28 12:42:28 PDT 2000

Stay Strong Writers

Mary Fri Jul 28 11:58:19 PDT 2000


Well, I almost hit a deer with my car last night. Came so close that when she turned on her heels to run I could hear her hooves scraping across the pavement and her ass bumped my headlight. But that is not the important part. The important part is that at the time, I was driving home, thinking about all you guys. I was smiling to myself as I tried to picture precisely what GS looked like standing on a chair with two dead 60 watters in his y-fronts. Therein lies the issue. About three minutes later...after my heart returned to normal, I realized that if I had died in that accident, the last thought I would have had would have been the infamous lightbulb account that Gary posted such a short time ago. I have yet to decide how I feel about that exactly. Just wanted to share...c-ya.

Debra J. Palardy Fri Jul 28 11:48:40 PDT 2000


Thanks. You could also try talking to doctors whom work in that area.


Valerie Fri Jul 28 08:49:44 PDT 2000

Dear Friends:

Today, I am trying to get interested in the three short story ideas I have - just sitting there. I am a nonfiction writer all the way. So I get Writers Digest, discover fiction contests, and figure...OK I can do that. I read 582 books on how to do fiction. I sit down and like the cable goes out in my brain and I stare at the screen writing "who cares" for what seems like a long time. I finish (finally -6 days later) one story, oh the pain of it all. Now I have two more, or maybe three left on my challenge plate. It is hard for me! The strangest thing about it is, I have these teeny weeny ideas that bother me until I put them down and then I have to toil with them until I feel... done. I felt like a success when I finished my first one, and now I am back to blank-o-rama. Hat's off to the prolific fiction writers here.

Other than that - I am fine.

YES - on the students posting their work - I promise to give feedback on all of them. That is a cool idea and I would be honored to participate.

Happy writing trails for Friday everyone.... I have to go see which one of these little devils (stories) wants to torment me today!


Arik Fri Jul 28 03:06:49 PDT 2000

Mary - Thank you :-). Ohh you will get one..... you alwayd do :-).

Mark - I loved it. where are you from?

I'll give the prisez later.

Someone knows when Americo is comming back?

Jessica Fri Jul 28 00:44:24 PDT 2000

I have no clue why my message was published twice, sorry for that.

Jessica Fri Jul 28 00:42:29 PDT 2000

Debra: I got your E-mail and I thank you for your imput. I now have several different views to look at as I write my next chapter, Which mainly deals with my character and her problems.

Heather: Thanks for your crit. I have already started reworking my begining, I can see now how it is a little off. I can't realy work on it though until I get home. I have been on a 2 month extended vacation/ summer of working. I am realy sad that I haven't written more, but thats the way it is when you work all the time. If you hadn't noticed all of my postings are past midnight, after I get home from work. Well, enough about my life.

Any one who wants is wellcome to crit my start to my story.
hopefuly once I get home I can get more into type and posted.

Jessica Fri Jul 28 00:42:20 PDT 2000

Debra: I got your E-mail and I thank you for your imput. I now have several different views to look at as I write my next chapter, Which mainly deals with my character and her problems.

Heather: Thanks for your crit. I have already started reworking my begining, I can see now how it is a little off. I can't realy work on it though until I get home. I have been on a 2 month extended vacation/ summer of working. I am realy sad that I haven't written more, but thats the way it is when you work all the time. If you hadn't noticed all of my postings are past midnight, after I get home from work. Well, enough about my life.

Any one who wants is wellcome to crit my start to my story.
hopefuly once I get home I can get more into type and posted.


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