Archived Messages from February 28, 2001 to March 7, 2001

Teekay Wed Mar 7 21:48:38 PST 2001


LITTER/DEBRA: Well that's good news. I spent ages on the net (well it seemed a long time) looking for the imformation I wanted about it, but seems it's top secret. I'm glad you guys know what your talking about. I like it much better your way.
But, and here's the note from the publisher of that mag I was speaking about:
"ps: Please, please make sure all stories, pictures and letters you send in are exclusive to us. If we publish anything that then turns up in a rival magazine-sorry, but we won't be paying you."
end quote.
How could they do that under those copyright laws? Would that be a special contract that's been signed?

CHRISTI: McDonalds cones are 30 cents here. Heeeeey, our economy may not be so bad after all. Glad your back and well.

EDGAR: Indeed fiction should be written that way, but you wouldn't find it in the middle of a dictionary would you now? ;-)

HEATHER: I got my copy of writers digest yesterday and your story critique wasn't bad at all. She only omitted a few words and changed a few around. She got the POV wrong though didn't she? Your using an omnipresent view point. At least I thought you were.
Anyhow, look at it this way. Had it been perfect they would have had nothing to critique. :-)
Actually I found the articles in this months W.D. rather interesting.

For 52 years they had never spent a night apart. For 52 years they have loved and laughed and cried and fought and danced and lived..
She always hoped that she'd be the first to go.

Heather Wed Mar 7 20:08:10 PST 2001

My shortie is supposed to be on-topic.
It might appear more on the topic of nuttiness.

Oh well!


Mary Wed Mar 7 20:06:43 PST 2001

LITTER: What part of Scotland are you from? I should probably phrase that: Where in Scotland do you live now? ;-)

Heather Wed Mar 7 20:00:08 PST 2001

Ok, it's a little longer than it was before, but I think it's actually better this time.

Forgive me that it's not really SHORT!

I stare at walls to keep from talking. I keep from talking so I don’t get shanked again. I don’t wanna get shanked; nobody wants to get shanked but there are a shitload of guys with hard-ons just waiting for a new guy to shank. Or a not-so-new guy if he looks wrong. They shank you so you’re weak and scared and that’s when they get you worse.

I’ve stared so long now it seems like ten times I’ve clipped my nails since last I looked away. I just stare at a crack in the wall; any crack so long as it’s over heads and away from eyes. I just stare and listen all day, even ignore my tastebuds and what my fingertips tell me. The scratch of my clothes and the hardness of benches blends into the backround and nothing but that crack ahead can take me away long enough.

Not even the sound of that louse Lackey below me pissing into the bowl from his bunk can make me move an eyelash. He’s an idiot; the most uncouth of a thousand uncouth assholes that I ignore with all my strength some days. Better it’s him, as he’s just smart enough not to join in on initiations. But he’s still way under swift.

Lackey finishes his morning aim game, and I keep on staring at the long, thin crack above the wobbly wreck of a desk. I can smell the piss and my eyes water and I wish to God he’d move his lazy stupid ass and flush.

If I had a mirror maybe my wrinkles would be enough, but what’s supposed to be a mirror is screwed to the wall and it’s no good. And anyway, I have enough cracks to stare down in this dump. The dry desert in the yard makes for a million cracks to watch, even in the rain. Yesterday I found a new crack that reminded me of my long-dead wife, and I had to run to keep her laugh from poisoning my resolve.

I need cracks because they don’t talk back, they don’t move, don’t throw things, and they sure as shit don’t get up and grab you. I don’t look at people any more because I can’t let myself get broken. If they think they broke you the first time, they won’t bother tryin’ you out again. I never want to look at another face; faces that jeer and laugh. Faces I wake up screaming from.

Those faces took my fear and turned it into something raw, and they forced me to swallow it, chokin’ me on their madness. They’d have broken me right from brain to tailbone had that crack not been there to steal away faces and words. The first crack was cut deep just as if it was waiting. If I’d seen worms or critters crawling instead, you can bet your last meal I’d a been down for the count, or worse, every minute of my days. But all I saw was this deep, shining crack and it smiled at me and I knew what it was saying without words.

Lackey finally sits up and starts swinging his feet, I can feel the bunk jiggle back and forth. Then he starts whistling this ditty over and over. He knows it makes my spine shake and my skin crawl, but he keeps on anyhow. He’s been tryin’ to get my goat since he got holed up in the same cell. He thinks I don’t look at him or talk cause I want to screw with him. But I told you he was an idiot. I just keep staring at that crack, that big, smiling, missing wedge in a face of concrete. I study every dusty inch, every grey shadow, and if I let my eyes go blurry-like, I can think my own thoughts again. This warm buzz comes loud enough if I stare long enough, and it’ll wash away Lackey’s damn whistling, his pissing, his sickening grunts. Hell, it’ll burn away any of the morons in this place for a while. I can buzz all afternoon if the light’s right and the cracks are big enough to swallow me. Sometimes I wish they would.

Lackey gets gravy on his instant mashed potatoes. I can smell it from down the table. He gets gravy cause he’ll do favours for the cook, if you know what I mean by favours.
I hate gravy as much as I hate Lackey.
I learned quick to eat without moving my stare from the crack over the doorway. Everywhere I go there’s cracks to greet me. I can’t slop coffee or food or else I might look away and end up somebody’s bitch, spitting blood and every vile thing. They already think I’m crazy, but I never do anything to get me solitary. Not enough light in there to see nothing though, so it’s fine with me. I walk back with my tray to dump it in the pail with the others, all the while that crack over the door has my attentions. But not all of them. I can hear Lackey and the rest of them at table three laughing, and way down in my stomach I know it’s at me.

Tonight I’m gonna tell myself that story again when it’s calm and Lackey’s whistling dies off. If they hear me there’s no telling how broken I’ll get. Got to talk soft, in that short, quiet moment before the last crack fades and the lights come on tomorrow.

I’m gonna have to remember it better this time. Have to get it right and maybe that will be good enough to get me free. Maybe tomorrow I won’t wake up screaming. Or maybe they’ll patch those cracks like they say they’re gonna patch them, and I’ll just have to take my pants off and make a noose.

Lackey’s going out in the yard now and I’m following, following the cracks up by the ceiling on the way towards the light of the sky. Sometimes one of the morons will go to stick a foot in my way and trip me, but I watch sideways from my eyes without taking them off those cracks. I can smell their sweat and filth before their shadow gets close. I just stop and wait til they figure I’m loose in the head and unpredictable enough to scare them off. They don’t always leave, but today they do.

The yard is full of wind and the cracks are under the dust. I wait til everyone’s away from the wall and I turn to it, looking for the long gully crack that’s coming back after they stuffed it with grout. Only crack left outside today worth watching. I hear the whistles of the screws signaling each other, and the talk of other lifers in every gust of wind. I can hear a few of them talking about me. I won’t look, and this dream of walking into Bullroot’s won’t fade. Bullroot’s is this little dustbowl hardware store that sells the smallest die-cast trains you ever saw. Only thing I ever wanted as a kid, and it’ll be the first place I go when I get free. There’s cracks in the street that’ll take me all the way there from here. Want to own a little red engine, coal stack and all before I’m dead. That’s all that matters any more. That little red engine and the cracks. Cracks and tracks. I can hear the little hoot and I can see the little track and push the button on the little motor right there, right in front of me.

Then Lackey comes and fucks it all up with his whistling again. I just watch the crack and try to slow myself down so I don’t burst out and punch him. It’s hard to keep my eyes on the crack when he’s standing in my light. I move quick to find my crack again and Lackey fades away, everything is plain again and my little red engine is waiting.

Tonight I’m gonna remember every word of it. Every word. I think I can I think I can.
I think I can I think I can. The Little Engine That Could. Need to remember careful, every word, so it comes and brings me oranges and lollipops and toys. Remember it right. When it’s calm and the cracks disappear.

©Heather Myles, 2001.

Debra Wed Mar 7 18:44:21 PST 2001


I was looking at my new favorite spot on the web and over there at Cornton Vale they currently claim zero escapes.

In a word, JACKPOT!


Heather Wed Mar 7 18:28:28 PST 2001

I am fuming. I am really fuming. I was concocting a fabulous shortie (early) and I went and flubbed it by pushing two buttons again by mistake, and my post and shortie disappeared into no man's virtual land! ARRRGHHHH!
That'll teach me to compose right into the box.
So I'm rewriting it, and if it's not so fabulous, fuck it.

Pardon my English slang.

My mother always used to say "That browns me off", but I cut to the chase and said that satisfying four letter word. Nothing quite like it when you're hopping mad.

Oh, and you know what two buttons I pressed? One was the tab button I'm sure of it, and the other was the 'q'. Now tell me how and why, and I'll tell you sweet fanny adams did it. This time the two button simul-post didn't actually post my shortie, though. It was almost finished!!! (*#$%)*&#!

Here's a cute little thing, just because I feel like it and it made me smile in adversity:

Show me a man with both feet planted firmly on the ground, and I'll show you a man who can't put on his pants.

Oh, and I'll post my shortie the cut and pastey style when I'm done yelling at it for not being exactly the same.

Heather :-/

Litter Wed Mar 7 18:23:57 PST 2001

Welcome Back Christi!

GERRY -- My apologies, I was just 'pulling your chain'. You wrote something that, on first reading, sounded a tad strange: "

"We all carried pagers for the squad. One of those volunteer squads you know. Or don't they have them in Scotland?"

On second reading it was obvious you were talking about volunteer squads (which we do have) and NOT pagers… But I couldn't resist. Sorry, you have said nothing to upset me.

Promising start to the shorties and I WILL go back and read them properly, but why is everyone early this week?

Something I maybe should have mentioned earlier is that, having watched some of the stuff Billy Connolly has made for US TV, he has gone a long way to 'sanitise/Anglicise his accent so that US viewers could understand him. If you want the real deal there are many BC albums/CD's on the market. He is a naturally gifted comedian but his stuff can be raucous and downright blue, but he still makes me laugh.

As for the man himself -- When he first started out, he played with a folk band called 'The Humblebums'. (With Gerry Rafferty and Tam Harvey) I used to sing with a folk group called 'Vinegar Hill' when they were beginning to make a name for themselves and, on two occasions, we played support for them at folk clubs local to where I lived. I was in my late teens and he in his mid to mid 20's. He was a man on a mission and way out of control. Somehow, everybody knew he would make it! Lucky sod!

DEBRA -- more tomorrow, watch this space!

Bed time.


Jon Wed Mar 7 18:07:09 PST 2001

I'm packing to go on another holiday, after I finish this one in the Sunny Side of Things, a little white village 30 miles east from South of Nowhere.

Came here to say hello to Hallee and Allein, whose birthdays I missed (and in the process missed them) and to declare Sebastian Jon the only and true President of us all, for 18 years starting ... NOW!!!

Here's my story for the night, dedicated to Sebastian Jon. It's called "Sebastian Jon welcome to the world" and should have the shape of the holy grail if I knew how to draw.

From the roofs of any Scottish prison you can still see I'm sure the mountains covered with heather
pink or white or pink and white
in August
when the swallows chirp all day about their past midwinter glory
as if it had been their best Christmas gift
something almost forgotten
therefore transfigured into images of dew and yore
mornings that are here to stay
immortal like a dawn of May
the best of the rest of all the other feelings

Jerry Wed Mar 7 18:01:24 PST 2001

Litter - did I say something? I wasn't aware that I was slamming Scotland, god I would love to visit there, I think it one of the greatest places in the world, or what I have read of it. I don't remember saying anything about pagers or any of that, hell you can't even get a pager or cell phone to work here. I guess I mentioned a pager when I was talking about working for the amublance squad, but they had a special transmitter used by the hospital. If I said anything wrong, forgive me, it was totaly unintentional.


Rosemary Wed Mar 7 16:47:56 PST 2001

Me again,
I just ran a friend of mine through Google, just for fun and realized she had a web page for her Relationship Book. Thought some of the more introspective members might be interested in it.

Gone again,

Jack Beslanwitch Wed Mar 7 16:45:34 PST 2001

Ben: I have not gotten my shellfish license yet, but lets say I just reached out and got my virtual one. So I will go virtually scuba diving and grab the crabs when I do. Actually, here I go.

Got them!!! Get that pot boiling. They are ready to go :-)

Rosemary Wed Mar 7 16:40:05 PST 2001

Evening All,

I meant to mention this when you first listed your art web page. I think the painting on your cabinets would make an excellent cover for *P*. It looked spooky to me.

Welcome back CHRISTY and hello to all else.


Debra Wed Mar 7 16:26:27 PST 2001


Last time I promise. I added that website to my favorites. I'm going to memorize every word.


Debra Wed Mar 7 16:25:00 PST 2001


Actually one more thing. Duncan comes from a proper middle class home, but Mary Flanagan comes from much less. I would be interested in hearing about that town Kirkintilloch you mentioned. She has not had nearly the fine life he had yet she thinks she's superior. It's probably because she was blessed with physical beauty, really blessed. I'm laughing already.

When you get time. Believe me. I don't want you to get sick of telling me about Scotland. Writing a novel is a slow process as you already know I'm sure. So, I really mean that.

On the other hand, I'll always take whatever you give me happily.

Thank you so much,


Debra Wed Mar 7 16:12:53 PST 2001


I could kiss you. I am going to read your post a thousand times. I love every word. I'm going to cut and paste it and put in in a file called little bits of heaven from Litter. Yes I do want my character to be as real as possible. I have seen Billy Conolly. I'm sure that's misspelled. I love him to pieces. I will look into that sucide thing too. I wonder if I might use the fact that she didn't have good representation as as reason. Did you ever hear anything on those lines? She killed her abusive husband by accident. Really it was an accident.

My female character's name is Mary Flanagan. If it's not Scottish like Duncan's I can add in the fact that she moved there with her parents as a child. If it might be Scottish in some way let me know. I can't wait to read your post again. I'm going to buy a map of Scotland. I will watch that movie too, maybe many times.

Thanks aren't enough , but it is all I have at this time. If it ever gets published, your name will be there in the couldn't have done this without spot. That's a promise.


Litter Wed Mar 7 15:45:13 PST 2001

Hi All!

I'm going to answer some of Debra's questions here, as it may give others a little extra research info, should any of you wish to develop any Scottish connection/character.

DEBRA -- Nice to hear that I can still make hearts race…

There is only ONE long-term female prison in Scotland, Cornton Vale, just outside Stirling. It is also the only all female prison in Scotland. Fortunately for you, and your story, it is 15 to 20 miles north east of Billy Connolly country -- Glasgow.

So, Glasgow actually starts about 18 miles or so south west of Stirling. (West of Stirling there are only hills and small villages, and you do not want to go North.) 15 miles southeast of Stirling is the town a Kirkintilloch, just a short way before Glasgow proper. Accent and disposition are the same and, in the main, it is not an affluent place.

There is no hard and fast economic divide between the Highlands and the Lowlands but the vast majority (90%) of the population live in the Lowlands and south. There are many 'deprived', poor or redevelopment areas throughout the Lowlands, some of these in Glasgow.

Equally fortunate for your story is that this is the region of dry humour and 'affectionate' sarcasm. (You have seen Billy Connolly!) It is also an area of tremendous optimism in the midst of what is sometimes abject misery. Good for your character! I don't know if you would be able to get it or not but look for a film called 'The Elephants Graveyard'. It is Scottish made and is one of the most accurate portrayals you will ever find of industrial life in the west of Scotland.

A word of caution, tho', find some good source material, like the film above, because the sanitised version of Scottishness, produced by Hollywood and the like, just does not cut it, and I surmise that you want your character to be 'real'. Ask me by all means, but I will be merciless in the pursuit of accuracy.

Take a look at the Scottish Prison Services link, above. Go to the SPS Prisons page and click the Cornton Vale link.

(For completeness, for you won't find this on the official pages, Cornton Vale has been severely criticised for its high inmate suicide rate! Might make for an interesting wrinkle or sub-plot point?)

JERRY -- Yes we do have pagers and the like and next week I'm getting a conversion kit to change my PC over from gas power to that new-fangled electrickery… ;o) Pagers are fine if you reverse the batteries -- all of a sudden no one calls for you.

Enough for now -- I hope that the information I posted for Debra is also of use to others.



John Wed Mar 7 14:50:32 PST 2001

HEATHER: Yup..still here. I read when I can and I write when I can. Lately I've been a bit inundated with work so it's been I stop in the notebook to try and keep caught up and this is the first time I've had a chance to write anything. I'm trying to get a local radio station to sign on to a "Family Values" kind of workshop. Since I'm not religious, they are skeptical. But I think they'll warm up Ok. I feel that the workshop will also help my book effort. Pretty fun so far.

But I gotta go...Only had a minute

Later all

Jerry Wed Mar 7 14:13:42 PST 2001

Looking for space shots, have you ever tried webshots? I use it on all my computers, check it out at this address, it has lots of them, and it is all free. You have to download their free controller, then all the photo's are free too for the download.


Heather Wed Mar 7 13:29:31 PST 2001

Jerry: jeans and a flannel shirt is just fine - but you'd be sweating in the summer here for sure. It's so hot I blast my air conditioner 24/7. I'd hang around the air conditioner vent at all times if it weren't for feeding the kids, bathroom breaks and a place to sit.

Tina - the eye of God indeed! What a beautiful photo! I wonder if the Hubble has taken pictures of my old kitchen cupboards...

(I mean the painting on them)

Skiis - oh, yes, cross country only. I was raised wearing Karhu racing skiis from Finland, cross country all the way.
Downhill simply scares me. Why would anyone want to plummet from a cliff? Or a cliff with breasts, as those mogul hills seem to be? I like my legs unbroken and my face the same. Tried snowboarding on an infant hill once, and nearly took off both feet. That was the last of snowboarding for me. That sport is like strapping yourself to the bottom of a skido. Pointless and painful. Oh, but the few seconds of pure air you catch are just so worth it...

I'd rather hang-glide in a tornado. Really!
And now to read the shorties!!!


Mary Wed Mar 7 13:24:08 PST 2001

TEEKAY: Yes, a teeter-totter is also sometimes called a see-saw here, but not frequently.

Wow! I think the shorties that stem from the loneliness theme are really going to knock my socks off. Way to go you guys!

Jerry Wed Mar 7 12:19:25 PST 2001

Renn is doing great, thanks for asking, he has been outdoors most of today, it is a great day out there, the temp is around 50 F the snow is rapidly melting, and the sun is shining brightly.

So sad about those school shootings, I wish there were something I could do to help, but I guess it is beyond my control.

Richard, many of us went through hell going to school, I know High School was no picnik for me, as I was from the wrong side of the tracks, we had no running water, so baths were rare, every two or three weeks, made one rather unpopular, the crowd I ran with were heavy drinkers, I guess that's how we coped.

Here is my short shorty.

Oh So Lonely
By Jerry Ericsson

Day 1900 The third moon just rose from behind the new Rocky Mountains. It rained last night, not one of those gentle rains that make you wish for a companion, but what we used to call back in the hills, a gully washer. I don’t mind the rain all that much though, except last night Skipper, my little cocker spaniel was washed away. I will miss him so, as he was the only other living thing here on Argos 3. I shall begin a search for his body in the morning; the least I can do is give him a decent burial. He has been my only companion for the last six years.

Day 1901 The great thing about being stranded here is the fact that I can catch up on my writing. Yesterday I finished my seventh novel. I am hopping that some day, hopefully soon a star ship will pass this way and hear my distress beacon, it simply has to happen soon.

Day 1902 Argos 3 is on all the star charts, however there are no major shipping routes that pass within a light year of here. My beacon only extends one thousand kilometers in all direction, but is blocked out when the remains of my ship go behind the planet. It was there yesterday when a ship passed, I could see it’s surface reflect the light of my sun, it appeared to be a rather large ship, I would imagine it was a freighter probably belonging to the Maron world, as they “own” this part of the galaxy. I wouldn’t have minded being rescued by them though, it is said that the Maron women are the most beautiful in the universe.

Day 1903 The battery has gone dead in my entertainment counsel, and I have no way of recharging it, so the days of playing galaxy wars, and Duke Nukem 4D are long gone. I am thankful that there was a goodly supply of paper and pencils in the lifeboat that I rode down to the surface in. There are enough rations to last a crew of seventeen for three years. I have yet to calculate how many years it will last one man, but may do that one of these days, although I am not worried. I was so happy to see the gauges on the ship showed the atmosphere was stable enough and contained enough oxygen to sustain life, now I am not all that sure it was a good thing. I do not know how long I can go on being totally alone. At least with Skipper, I had someone to interact with.

Day 1921 The horrible loneliness continues, today I located Skipper’s body. I buried him with the words of the burial script found in the survivor’s handbook from the escape craft that I have been living in for so very long.

Day 2015 Another ship went by last night, my beacon should have alerted them, the remains of the ship were nearly overhead, the battery must have failed. I will be here forever.

Day 2103 I can’t take it anymore. I am going to take my own life, better to die of my own hand then of loneliness.

“When do you think he wrote that last entry Bob?”

“Not too long ago, the body is still in good shape, the med scanner says about three or four days ago, depending on the temperature.”

“Too bad, we should have stopped on the way to the space port when we heard the beacon, instead of on the way back.”

Christi Wed Mar 7 11:36:09 PST 2001

Thanks you guys. You all are so great. *sniff*

I can't wait until I have time to check out all the new contributions to the workbook. Sounds like there's some neat writing going on over there.

Great stuff Mary!

It's funny, as soon as I saw your shortie night theme I couldn't stop myself from finishing early either. It's a strange one but I'm going to go ahead and post it. I think I combined loneliness with a ghostie I was thinking of writing. I'm a bit embarrassed because all the talk about sex scenes got me going in a direction I don't wander too often (writing-wise). Not embarrassed enough NOT to post it though. ;0) Gads I get so nervous about posting these things! Here goes.

Soul Mate

He was back—she could feel it. She kept her eyes closed in the hope that she could trick him into believing she was asleep. She concentrated on keeping her breath even, but not too even; he wasn’t an easy one to fool. For effect she rolled her eyes underneath her closed lids a few times.

As the minutes crawled by she began to be stifled from the weight of the blankets she’d carefully piled on at the beginning of the night. They were the thermal kind, dyed in appalling shades of pink and green. She’d covered every inch of her skin in the hopes that if unable to see her body, he’d go away with his desire unfulfilled. Now they enclosed her in a claustrophobic womb and she ached to kick them off. On the positive side, the discomfort did take her mind off of him, even if only for a few moments.

Just then, the slightest touch tickled the back of her neck. So slight it was that she couldn’t be sure if it was real, but all the same her body froze stiffly into position. Then she realized she was holding her breath. The jig was up. “I know you’re there!” she cried out.

She threw the blankets off in relief and the slick sweat that covered her body turned ice cold, frigid fingers kissing her every curve and crevice. At the same time, heat rushed to her groin and she could no longer deny that she’d been waiting for this moment since he’d come to her last night and the night before. She wasn’t afraid of him at all; she’d been lying to herself. She wanted him to touch her like he had then; for him to make her feel like she was floating far above the earth in a hot air balloon, with cicada’s song in her head. That was how it had been, with the addition of a delicious dotting of fear that had made the journey somehow excruciating and spectacularly exciting, building to frenzy until she exploded rainbows of raw emotion.

She wondered where he would take her next; what spires they would reach together, what new songs would strain through her. Instead of fearing him, as she knew she should, she welcomed him to her, to every inch of her. Her lonely journey had ended. It had been far too long that she’d only dreamt of what it would be like to have a lover. Though it wasn’t in the conventional way, she was in love and for the first time in her life her love was reciprocated in kind.

She moaned and writhed on the bed thinking of him, knowing he would touch every fiber of her soon. “Please don’t make me wait any longer,” she whispered. “Take me.”

They were the words he’d been waiting for. He threw himself into her with total abandon, and it seemed that the sky split open above the two of them, his ethereal body and her physical one. Her eyes flew open wide, at first fearful and then mellowed, as a drugged kind of smile whisked across her lovely face.
As she exhaled her last breath her body went slack, and he welcomed her as she came into her new awakening. The two embraced voraciously, as they never could have done when she was of the flesh.

He knew they’d shattered every rule but he didn’t care. He’d been alone for eons and couldn’t wait a moment longer for his love to come to fruition. He hoped she’d not be angry once she learned of the consequences, but from the look of her he guessed she would bear them as gratefully as he would.

“Come, my darling … my soul mate,” he said, as he took her hand. “I have so much to show you.”

Debra Wed Mar 7 11:15:21 PST 2001


Thanks. I am totally glad I asked you guys. I feel so much better. I know just what to do. I will just naturally write what is necessary for the strory. The thing is I know I will never be the author of a story like Hannabal. I would like to hope that my stories will be just as intersting though. They will just be an extended version of me.

The murder actually was an accident. She didn't have good representation. It's not a reflection on Scotland and I don't go into it very much. She has 15 years to spend in prison and can't stand even one second of it.

It's really about that part.


Tina Wed Mar 7 11:02:19 PST 2001

Still thinking about how what we write reflects on the author. Debra, one way to think about it is; this female prisoner has committed a murder. When the story is done are you justifying and condoning the murder, or is it just part of the actions neccessary to set up the conflict? Consider the situation and factors that led to the murder, the reactions she and others had, remorse, and your protagonist's feelings about it. By the end of the story, will your message be that it was okay for her to do what she did, or that it was her greatest mistake? That is the moment that matters, the judgement, not the act itself. Lousy things happen in the real world, and if you don't acknowledge them in your fiction based on the real world, the story will lose credibility.
For your own peace of mind, writing about something and condoning it are two very, very different things. And you are neither a hypocrit nor anything else like that. What you are is a writer. You owe it to yourself to let the neccessary facets of your story exist without apology. Your conscience will guide you through what is and isn't acceptable to YOU.

Gotta run. My dog is demanding a walk, and it's a beautiful sunny day. We should hit 14 or 15 degrees today! Yay!

Debra Wed Mar 7 11:01:34 PST 2001

Mary Lou:

It makes you wonder how anyone ever gets published at all.

In fact I just heard from that agent. He said and I quote, "your work is lively and intersting." He was hopeing it could be longer. I told him I didn't want to dilute my message. It's to help girls get out of an abusive relationship. I got that message in a letter. When I called to thank him for looking at I got both him and his person who reads the stuff on the phone at the same time by accident. She was really sad that he decided to pass. I could tell that they didn't agree on this one. I was glad to have heard that.

So he said no in the nicest possible way. I have hope to keep going.

I could be 90 to 100 pages if formatted the right way.

Back to the drawing board.


Mary Lou evans_hagen2@prodigy,net Wed Mar 7 10:43:48 PST 2001

Debra, no, I don't think that's the point of the article. There are several common literary scams and schemes.

Agents who brag about their success and ask to see your work (for a fee, of course). They provide you with a written critique that some flunky has written while the agent never sees the work.

Agents request to see your work and reads it at no fee. Responds by telling you it has enormous promise but needs some rewriting and editing. The agency can provide these services for you which turn out to be very expensive. Some actually promise that they will sell your work to a publisher whic, of course, is a bald-faced lie.

Another scam-scheme similar to that one is the agent who refers you to a "book doctor" who will put your work in publishable form. The agent then requests the "doctored"
manuscript ASAP so that he may find a home for it. The sam here is obvious. The agent gets a kickback for each referral. A number of bogus publishers also operate this scam.

The agent agrees to read your work at no charge and sends you a glowing report saying it is very saleable. He hthen offers to represent you for a one time fee (which an be expesnive). You pay and eagerly await the results of the agent's hard work--but you never hear from him again. Another warning is that this type of scam has invade the Christian market.

An agent agrees to reporesent your work, but charges a relatively small fee for each submission. She claims to keep trying to sell the work but never makes a sale. Most of the work she respresents is not good enough to get published. The agent does no market research and makes no follow-up calls. She merely throws the ms. in an envelope with a form letter and mailing it to a standard list of publishers. Agents like this fully expect everything they "represent" treturned with rejection form letters.

Warning: If you receive a printed flyer in the mail from any literary agency asking to see your work, there's very like a scam or sheme behind it.

I can fully relate to the above info, because I have had experience with the kind of agents described. I only bit once as far as money is concerned, but that made me take a good hard look at the others.

Hope this explains it.

Mary Lou

Debra Wed Mar 7 10:41:42 PST 2001


Sure you can use it if you want.


Debra Wed Mar 7 10:03:23 PST 2001


I read most of it and it's great. Thanks much. In fact, I just went to visit a friend of mine who goes to the same church. She told me that there is a Catholic Priest who writes all that stuff. So I guess the sky is the limit.

I just didn't want to offend you know who, up there. When I think of it now, he gave us our imaginations.


I would love to hear what you have to tell me anytime.

I haven't got much to show you yet. When I do.......


Mary Wed Mar 7 09:29:00 PST 2001

I finished my loneliness shortie early, so I figured I may as well post it and hopefully inspire some of you for tomorrow. Hope you like it! :-)

“That was a lovely story, Mrs. Stoneburner. You know Boots just loves to hear you tell stories.”

“Not as much as I love to tell them, honey.”

I watched the small tear run down the old woman’s cheek and it wrenched my heart. I rose from the edge of the bed and knelt down to put my arms around her shrunken body. She shook gently, running her veined hands over the cat’s gray fur. The wide, solid door, closed tightly, still couldn’t shut out the beeping of the other resident’s monitors or the soft moaning of the man across the hall, slowly dying.

I had been bringing my cat to the nursing home every week for over a year and it never got any easier to leave when the visit was over. As difficult as it was, it was worth it to see the look on the residents’ faces when I walked down the hall with Boots in my arms. They would gather around us in the Activities Room or the Lobby. It was always surprising to see how fast those wheelchairs could roll or walkers could clunk. They were all very special to me, but Mrs. Stoneburner had carved herself a very special place in my heart.

“You know that Boots and I will be back next week, Mrs. Stoneburner. We would never want to miss one of your stories.” I gave her a firm hug and sat back down at the edge of her bed, watching her fingers run over the cat’s back and listening to him purr. “Can you hear him purring,” I asked?

“No, honey, but I can feel it.”

We sat in comfortable silence for a few moments, my hand resting on her knee. Then she looked at me imploringly, “Can’t I keep him here with me? He likes it here.”

“Now, Mrs. Stoneburner, you know I can’t let Boots stay here. You are right, he does like it here, but he can’t live here. We will come back every week to visit you though. I promise.”

“Yes, Dear, I know…but I am just so lonely.”

Kru Wed Mar 7 08:33:55 PST 2001

Richard – Sorry if this is a little late, I’ve been sick have had more to do than I am capable of. It looks like you are getting some good counsel from this group. But I would like to add this little piece of support for you. I was “different” in high school too. I still think of myself as “different.” High school was a very lonely experience for me, I was not one of the cool people. Over here we just had this shooting that you are probably hearing about even over there where a young man that was “different” got a gun and shot up his school. I’m not suggesting that you would do anything like that but talk about hanging tells me some violent thoughts may be going through your head. To a certain extent that is normal for an adolescent, I am surprised to see your age; based on your writing you are mentally and emotionally quite mature for your years. I have spent a bit of time looking into this adolescent violence phenomenon of what happens to those kids in school that feel different. One thing to keep in mind is that everything changes when you get out of school. The rest of your life will not be a continuation of what happened in school. Kids are horrible to each other. Adults generally don’t do that kind of stuff; bullies get a comeuppance and learn new behaviors or go to prison. An Efriend from an Internet discussion group that I am in runs a web page about this called Raven Days, you should check it out. I think it will help you with perspective. Hang in there, I’m glad you have this group.

Debra – I used to work for a department of corrections too. I used to teach “The games inmates play,” if you would like I would be happy look over what you are writing and offer technical suggestions.

Hallee Wed Mar 7 08:23:39 PST 2001

Hey everyone!

TINA: Hi there. Haven't said hi to you in a couple of days. The space shuttle went over our town Tuesday - I missed it, though - but Conan got to see it. He said he worried the whole time because he remembered when Challenger blew up - he was outside watching that one, too.

RHODA: I FINALLY got my Romance Writers Report, and read that article on writing the book in a week. You were absolutely right - about 70% of the tips they gave are what I do, anyway...the whole concept of not editing as you go, leaving notes for later when you do edit, though I don't skip scenes simply because I have to write a scene to know what's going to happen next because I usually have no clue (haha) (however, I don't do all the preparation they talk about, including the outline). Anyway, it was neat to read and know that maybe I'm not doing it wrong, after all.

CHRISTI: Howdy. I missed you - take it slow.

MARY: Big hug to you, too.

BEN: You seem like you have a fun life.

RICHARD: Sometimes...sometimes you just have to lighten up and let yourself be 14. You take it all too seriously, and most of the time that's great and fascinating, other times it will give you an ulcer before you're twenty.

HEATHER: Hi. Hope all is well on your end of the continent.

JERRY: How's Ren?

HOWARD: That was a great cake - I've made one like that once before - similar, but not exact.

AMERICO: ??You okay??

DEBRA: Hope what I sent you helped - I haven't read it in almost a year, and I'm halfway afraid to read it. haha

Okay - I'm home with Kaylee again, and I need to get off line so I can let my office call me four or five more times.


Happy Wednesday!


Mary Wed Mar 7 07:31:44 PST 2001

Good Morning. I love you guys. Big hugs all around.

RRRRAMON Wed Mar 7 06:00:01 PST 2001

Hey all; I've just finished the final touches on BEST SEAT IN THE HOUSE after receiving some furthe constructive comments. All in all my story has provoked some positive reactions which has helped me enourmously, mind you I know I still have a long way to go, which suits me just fine. I'll post it again in the work (and this will be the last time). Again all comments and criticisms (especially the latter) are welcome.

TEEKAY: How is it going mate we haven't spoken in a while. Ya devil you.

CHRISTI: Hope you're feeling better. My fiance has the flu from the hell at the moment and I am doing all I can to ease her suffering. So I know what its like. Take care

DEBRA: Language bites you on the ass? Wow what a metaphor can I use it? Seriously though I do know what you mean.

RICHARD: A 14 year old who can write about sex? I am 30 and I have trouble with writing about sex. I have had my fill of experience but when it comes to putting it on paper I just freeze so what I tend to do if I have a character who is about to engage in Sex (for whatever reason) I just leave it to people's imagination. Its all implied. Just so that you know that when I was younger I was allowed to watch most unsuitable material e.g Bruce Lee Movies, Horror Movies, The Godfather (except for porn of course) and it never did me any harm. Still a little caution never hurt anyone and some things should be experienced later in life.

HOP: I've printed off PSI ACADEMY and I intend to have a good read.

I am tired and have tons and tons and tons of work to do.

Catch y'all on the flip side lookin good and feelin fine.


PS English dialect tip (this ones for HOP) "The Dogs Bollocks"

Debra Wed Mar 7 05:53:40 PST 2001


Thank you. I was just about to call them and demand my ms back. I think I will give it a few more days.


Debra Wed Mar 7 05:52:21 PST 2001


Duncan lives in a town about 15 minutes east of the prison. He loves his mother but not creepy style. He's not a momma's boy but don't insult her. He had a normal amount of friends in school but they all went their own way after. He was left almost alone and starting working for the prison.

He gets by on his friendly sarcasm, but inside he wants something. He just doesn't know what. He has been going like this for more than twenty years now. He has finally met his match in this women prisoner. If you saw him like I did you might see Billy Connolloy. He played in Mrs. Brown.

Guess what, someone asked me about writing about a murder and I said I didn't have one, well I forgot that she is in prison for murder. It happened before all my characters met. I'm afraid I might just break all my own rules right out of the gate. What does that make me? I don't critize others for doing it so it's not a hyprocite. I know it's something with a name just like that. Can anyone help me out with that one? I know that there are still things I cannot do. I just wonder how short that list might get.


Trudy Wed Mar 7 05:40:48 PST 2001

I meant, meant. Not emant. But you all knew what I meant, right? T

Trudy Wed Mar 7 05:34:53 PST 2001

TEEKAY, What LITTER said about first rights, I echo *grin* I started to write out what it emant again but Litter explained it perfectly *smile*

EDGAR...Wow! Great shorty and that would definitely be a great scene for helping with character development. I wish I still smoked. *grin*

Well have an article to write so best get at it...have a great day all!


Ben Woestenburg Wed Mar 7 03:41:28 PST 2001

Okay. I just got home from a nice warm night of working on the river. All that talk of snow storms and cold weather reminded me of why I will never leave this place. The stars were all out, the river deceptively fast, and the city lights almost illusional the way they reflected off the water. It's hard to believe that it was twenty degrees here today--what's that? About sixty-ish on the old Farenheit scale? It's hard to remember sometimes. I have a job that allows me the luxury of travel though; I tie up the throttle on the boat, put my feet up, and let go of the steering wheel. I do doughnuts down the river, watching the scenery flash by, day dreaming of being somewhere else, when everyone I know wishes they could have my job. It's not a hard job, it just takes a little practice, which is why I like to play: rocking the boat up and down, leaning over so far that I can pick tennis balls out of the river without getting out of my seat.

Now down to business. It took a long time to read all these posts, and I hope I can remember who said what. As for the sex question. When I was in grade twelve we had a porno writing contest. There were about five or six of us young gentlemen with raging hormones who decided we should have a contest. The problem wasn't writing it--what young man can't come up with something about sex, virgin or not? The problem was judging them. We solved that problem by saying we all had to read the stories in the main hallway at lunch time, standing up against the wall. The first person to sit down out of obvious embarassment, well, that story would be the winner. Needless to say, we all sat down at the same time.

DEBRA: The way to write a sex scene is best solved by simply saying: They made love. That's it. If you feel uncomfortable writing a Harold Robbins sex scene, then don't. James Clavell, in his Asian Saga had the sex take place off screen, so to say. Everyone basically knows the fundamentals anyway--in, out, in, out; repeat if neccesary--so why bother with it? Why fret over it? "They made love" covers the whole thing for you, and you can get right to the pillow talk, which is always more interesting as far as moving the story along anyway--unless you're writing about a whore, (which you probably aren't). In LONESOME DOVE one of the major characters was a whore, and I don't recall any major sex scenes in that story.

As for fingers getting caught in doors and things like that...I stuck mine in the planer at work, and lost the tip off one, and damaged the one beside it. It was a mess. They gave me Demerol which I didn't mind at all, and then my doctor gave me demoral(?) pills, which I didn't mind either--and niether did my room mate who just happened to be an ex-junkie...but that's another story.

And the nude bar-b-queing? My goodness. I did that too, sort of. I was supposed to be watching three of them at this big party we were at, standing there with no shirt on, beer in one hand, spatula in the other, wearing thongs on my feet. That was my mistake. I turned, trying to pivot, caught my thong on the stand of one of the b.b.q's, and fell on one of the other ones. I was past my point of balance, and had to push myself off with my forearm. It was a Friday night, and everyone wanted to take me to the hospital and have it taken care of. I had no desire to sit in the emergency ward on a Friday night, and said forget it, just get me drunk. They did. The pain went away real easy. Of course, everyone else got drunk with me, and then the girls all wanted to play nurse maid on me. I said fine, go ahead. What a mess of bandages that was. I went home and actually slept on my stomach. I drove myself to the clinicd second and third degree burns. Not one of my smarter moments, but then, I've had a lot of those. Who hasn't? What? No one else has fallen on a B.B.Q.?

Oh yes, and the virtual dinner? I can bring the maple syrup I guess, but it seems like a bit of a waste, when I think of my darling little wife and her gourmet habits here at home. If Jack brings the crab, she'll make a huge pot of crab and coconut milk, Fiji-style. Maybe Teekay will know what that tastes like? If you want it hot, like Hop's soup, it will make a great companion dish.

But I've gone on for long enough, and it's getting late. I was up this late last night, and up at 8:30 this morning. My eyes are sore.

Oh yes, and Litter, I agree with you entirely, the guy's a total loser. I was just glad I had a cop with me in case he was still there. From what I understand, he likes to hurt people just for the fun of it. Not the kind of guy I want to meet at two in the morning when he's in a bad mood. Not the kind of guy I want to meet at anytime actually. For some strange reason though, he seems to be reluctant to face off with my wife who has met him. Go figure. She's only five foot--almost. I think it's because she's somewhat opinionated at times. And independant...everything he doesn't like in a woman I guess.
Now I really gotta go.

Tina Wed Mar 7 00:43:40 PST 2001

Here's that link to the Hubble picture I mentioned. Don't know if it fit up above so here it is again.

Tina Wed Mar 7 00:40:36 PST 2001

Hello all!

I was just gonna pop in and say hi, but now I'm catching up on two days posts and it's getting late. Oh well. Trust me to be away for the two days that this place is humming!

Do excuse my lack of birthday salutations. I can barely remember my husband's and family's. I hereby announce a Happy Unbirthday to everyone!

Mary, I'll check out the site. I actually have a whole swack of space pics on my desktop. Can't get enough of 'em. Have you seen the 'Eye of God'? It's real name is the Hourglass Nebula, but Eye of God is so much more appropriate. Hey, I'll put in a link. It's an amasing shot.

Heather... skiis? Only if it's cross-country. On the food end ot things, I make a wicked pavlova. It's a melt-in-your-mouth meringue covered with fruit and whipped cream. Oh yeah, now I'm drooling on my keyboard... Can I bring my hubby? He is the king of veal courden blue (sp?). And I usually bring taco chips and my home-made salsa to these kind of things. And I won't eat much, just one or two of Jack's dungeness crabs. (licking lips)

The discussion is over already, but I have to say that I fight the whole 'What kind of person am I' argument whenever I stop and think about the fact that most of my major characters in 'Shadow' are assassins and mercenaries. I'm especially nervous about letting my mom read the story. What will she think? No, I am not a pyscho!

Mark, bread should be its own food group. Not 'grains', just bread. Crusty, savoury bread with cheese and herbs... ohoh I'm drooling again. Just got the last mess cleaned up.

Oh, Cassandra, I just noticed that you drool on the keyboard too. Doesn't it make the worst mess? Not as bad as Heather's coffee though.

Arik and Christi, it's great to see you here again!

I just thought of one nice bonus to meeting with friends on the internet. I CAN'T CATCH ANY OF YOUR GERMS!!!!! (Sorry Americo, I couldn't resist) While I sympathize with all the runny noses, congested chests, etc, I'm happily healthy and haven't had a bug this year. Of course, Mr. Murphy hates a braggart so now I'll get horribly sick. ;oD

Okay, I need to get some sleep. We have visitors, and they have two little girls who wake up much earlier than I!


gariess Tue Mar 6 23:40:52 PST 2001

per discussion,

Many agents employ readers. As more and more of this work gets taken on by the agencies, we will see more readers working for agents. Readers used to work for editors in the publishing houses. Now, agents are taking on the work, it helps bond them to the publishers, and it makes a nice economy move for editors. Since agents have become so established as part of the industry the bulk of the submissions now goes to them rather than the publishers as in the past. The readers will have to go where there work goes.

The Curtis Agency gets some 50,000 submissions a week. The editors can't handle it all. Someone has to triage a heap like that.


Jerry Tue Mar 6 21:50:54 PST 2001

Heather, nude? Is that mandatory? Just wondering. You see I get cold real easy, in fact I am cold most of the time, and I wear sweat shirts, vests and jackets, and that's just in the house, when I go outdoors, I must bundle up. In the summer however, I might consider it, if the temp is friendly. I would have to warn you however, that I am embarrassed simply wearing swimming trunks in public, so I am not all that sure I would be comfortable coming nude. Would it be all right if I came, oh say, wearing blue jeans and a flannel shirt?

Cassandra - I know Gariess will catch this, but I was so sad to hear of the demise of your mother's hair. Perhaps some hair dye would be appropriate? For the funeral for her hair, you know.

Edgar - nice to see you. Love the Raven, one of my favorite POEms.

Litter - Don'tcha hate that, when folks call you instead of the authorities. I used to get that all the time when I was on the force, instead of calling the PD number, they would call me, and expect me to come. I usually called the PD and had a car dispatched before I left the house. I was on the ambulance crew too, so I had to respond if there was an injury, we all had jump-kits provided by the squad, as there were so few of us on the squad, and many times we responded if we were in the neighborhood. We all carried pagers for the squad. One of those volunteer squads you know. Or don't they have them in Scotland?

Mary Tue Mar 6 21:41:12 PST 2001


Cassandra Tue Mar 6 20:46:10 PST 2001

I meant, you've stuck... my grammar is horrible at times. please excuse me... :)

I have moments of blondness, inherited from my mother even though I'm a brunette and so would she be if she didn't die her hair. (she likes to say she was blond until she was my age... but that was when my age was 10.)

Cassandra Tue Mar 6 20:44:05 PST 2001

Heather- It was a pleasure to see that you've sticked around. I had hoped there'd be some friendly faces still lingering around when I got around to returning here.

Trudy- He's actually in the room at the moment, and I couldn't be happier. :) I love getting to spend what little time I have with him... which coincidentally is why this message will be short. :)
I meet him on the fourth of July, my friends Renee and Dave and myself were going to the fireworks here in the capital, and Dave's friend Jon decided to join us. At first I didn't really notice him, but then he was just so incredibly nice and sweet that I couldn't help but. We were a sure thing only 3 days later. :-D

mmmmmm, chocolate cake. Whoops, drooling on the keyboard... the good thing about Spring Break is that I might actually be able to bake and cook a little. Anyone have a good suggestion? or know a good peach cobbler recipe? or a really good cookie recipie?

Well, time to go hang out with the boys for a bit. Have fun everyone!



Heather Tue Mar 6 20:34:24 PST 2001

Edgar, that was delicious.



Heather Tue Mar 6 20:30:59 PST 2001

Yes, Christi, I missed you!
Glad that slice of hell didn't leave any marks.

My sinuses are still thanking me that I didn't turn them inside out blowing my nose for two weeks. I am rather surprised that my eyes didn't protrude on several occasions.

Hope it wasn't THAT hellish!

So, whatcha going to bring to the potluck? Virtual potluck until that someday when we're so famous we can leer jet back and forth for BBQ's {maybe even nude) and all the other banquets we can dream up.

I always liked that phrase, 'dream up'.

Dream as high as imagination takes you...

G'night everyone.

All seems well in Paradise tonight.


Edgar Tue Mar 6 20:30:26 PST 2001

OOOOOOhh, Debra, I think a bite on the ass is quite sexy.

I scanned this page yesterday and today there is so much more here. We do get busy here some days, don't we?

I was thinking of a counterpoint to the loneliness theme. Most writers thrive on point-counterpoint issues (at least as I have read them). So what's opposite of loneliness? Companionship, togetherness, coupling? Then the issues of steamy sex scenes came up. I may try to shoehorn an ass-nibble into what follows here.

Personally, I think you only see half the issue to say sex is a blessing from God. Sex is also a wonderful, physical, animal function. Some of my best memories are of moments before, during, and after. I may thank God for them as an afterthought, but the activity was first physical and second a remedy for cold, isolated, below-the-ceiling-lamp loneliness.

That said, here's another early shorty. Sorry Teekay, a fiction. (Shouldn't good fiction be written so that it engages the reader with a sense of reality, or at least believability?)


Jill and I generally lay front-to-back. Both on our left sides, my left arm under her neck. That got to be an issue, her weight cut off the circulation in that arm. Still, it was a position we favored. Seems like we did that for years. I'd wake up and need to move my arm, in waking I'd find myself pressed skin-to-skin against a woman: full contact from shoulder to ankle. With my right hand on her hip I could move in either direction and reach the end of her body. All of it felt good.

Jill always woke to my movements and the pressure she'd feel where our legs crossed. She had a wonderful phrase, "You have a nice way of waking me." She'd stretch a bit, straighten her legs, squeeze, and add a little pressure of her own to mine. We'd banter about my arm falling asleep but something else being awake. Before long we'd be face-to-face, lip to lip, belly to belly, toe to toe, joined.

After the heaving, breathing, sweating, pulsing urgency of the union, I came to appreciate the quiet moments with little hip twitches and long sighs. For the longest time, it seems, I could roll my butt around and feel the union. One early day I told her I could not tell where I ended or she began. She held me tight and cried. In the days (weeks? months?) that followed she knew I was exploring that feeling and enjoyed it with me.

I was there, and Jill was there, but the whole experience was one of union, coupling, jointure. This was not a solitary experience. Those were no days of loneliness.


Steamy? pointed? Could such exposition be necessary for character development? Is such exposition necessary for writer's development?


Christi Tue Mar 6 20:22:42 PST 2001

Oh THANK YOU, Jack! *smooch!*

Debra Tue Mar 6 20:21:07 PST 2001

Mary Lou:

I hope you don't mean that he might be in fact stealing my work. Is that what you mean?


Jack Beslanwitch Tue Mar 6 19:36:55 PST 2001

Welcome back Christi and a very personal emoticon just for you :-)

Mary Lou Tue Mar 6 19:29:45 PST 2001

Debra, I don't mean to be negative, but I would be a bit suspicious of an agent that does not personally read mss. but leaves them up to someone else. Are you familiar with The Writer magazine? There is a good article in the latest edition on "Agent Scams and Schemes," by Scott Edelstein. You might want to check it out.

Mary Lou

Mary Lou Tue Mar 6 19:29:25 PST 2001

Debra, I don't mean to be negative, but I would be a bit suspicious of an agent that does not personally read mss. but leaves them up to someone else. Are you familiar with The Writer magazine? There is a good article in the latest edition on "Agent Scams and Schemes," by Scott Edelstein. You might want to check it out.

Mary Lou

Jerry Tue Mar 6 19:22:52 PST 2001

Jack - Thanks, much better now, I can read the notebook without the eye strain.


Mary Lou evans_hagen2 Tue Mar 6 19:22:49 PST 2001

Debra Tue Mar 6 19:21:09 PST 2001


My heart is racing after reading your post. Heck, my eyes are watering. I'll tell you all about Duncan Boyd.

He is in his forties and a prison guard in a maxium security prison for women. He still lives with his mother and has never done anything wild his whole life. Except for right now. He is having a physical relationship with one of the women there.

Which part of Scotland has less wealth the Hghlands or the Lowlands? I would love it if you knew the name of such a prison. That's just a start on this guy. I do love this guy he is really nice inside. He just nees a push in the right direction.


Christi Tue Mar 6 19:06:17 PST 2001

YO PEEPS! I'm back! Did you miss me? Did you know I was gone? C'mon, you know you did! :)

Man it's nice to be back here. I was so sick and at the same time I had to take care of my son and husband who were also sick. We were a fun bunch for a while. It was a little slice of hell, but I AM ALIVE!

Rachel, I'm so pleased to hear that you and little Sebastion are doing well. You know I sensed that something might not be going so well during your pregnancy from small hints in your posts and I'm relieved that everything turned out all right. My labor with Jacob was touchy too and it was the scariest thing I've yet to experience. And the greatest thing too. :)
I wish for Sebastion all the health and love in the world. We should all bestow something to him, kind of like the good fairies in Sleeping Beauty. My gift to him would be great wisdom. May I be a fairy god-mother?
HUGS (0000000) and kisses (XXXXXX) for both of you.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY to everyone I missed! Ummm, Sebastion, Hallee, Richard, Allein, and Ben! Was that everyone?

HI Teekay, Mary, Howard, Gariess, Tina, Eddie, Litter ... oh forget it, HI EVERYONE! I sure missed you all. And WELCOME to all the new folks! You seem a neat bunch.

Americo, Gee thanks. I'll bet you thought you got rid of me, didn't you? I'm much harder to kill off than that. Rather like a cat, I'd say. ;) There's a special emoticon just for you, because I know how you truly adore them.

At the beginning it was really hard to stay away from my computer and then it became quite easy as the sickness progressed. Then it became a habit, until I found that I was beginning to feel lonely. I realized that I've been coming here for nearly a year now, almost daily, and that it's impossible for me to consider leaving.
So dear friends, the bad news is that you all are stuck with me. The good news? McDonald's ice-cream cones are still twenty-five cents! (Or are they?)

Love and big wet kisses to all,


Mary Tue Mar 6 18:36:16 PST 2001

GS: Yes, what an idiot...of course I meant "The Last Picture Show" and "Texasville" was the sequel. Doh! I love McMurtry because he gets his characters so true. I don't know how he does that...they never seem to do anything out of character whether you like them or not. He knows how to show humanity and all its flaws. His strong suit is not the plot, its his people and insight. :-)

Gariess Tue Mar 6 18:01:03 PST 2001


That's pretty neat. I always thought it was a coincidence that we both choose the same font.


Gariess Tue Mar 6 17:58:40 PST 2001

You are right. I looked it up and the name is Felson. I think I’ve made that mistake before. I thought, when I saw your post, that you were right, but I looked it up to see if it was Felson or Felsen.

Is that "Texasville" the sequel to The Last Picture Show. If so, I saw it. McMurtry is a little too soap opera for me, but then I lack personal experience with the Southwest, so I disqualify myself as his critic.

How are things in the hot spot?

Keep in touch with your freinds and understand them, but keep your own mind. You’re a bright boy, but you don’t want to put yourself out of reach to others. This is simply a counter-alert to some of the things you are hearing here.

You are quite right, but my doctor always wants the girls on the phone to ask. He has a lot of elderly patients who would accept an appointment for next week when they have something serious going on.


Hallee Tue Mar 6 17:48:09 PST 2001

MARY: I use an nearly identical recipe, except I add between 1/8-1/4 tsp cream of tartar - the frosting sets much better that way.

Okay - Kaylee's in my lap - time for bedtime stories.

Bye all-

Jack Beslanwitch Tue Mar 6 17:41:51 PST 2001

For all who had problems reading things, I inadvertantly had things pointed at a css file that made everything Arial at 10 pts. Readable, but not really. Sorry, but I have opted everything back to just default font so people can make their own choice depending on their browser. Take care.

Rhoda Tue Mar 6 17:32:14 PST 2001


I agree with HEATHER. Kids can never get too much love and affection. All mine are spoiled that way. Enjoy that baby and give him all the love you possibly can. You have seen the studies about babies and how important it is in their development to be touched often and talked to. Sebastian sure is very blessed to be in your home and to have you for a mother.


Litter Tue Mar 6 17:05:43 PST 2001

Hi Peeps,

Just a quickie visit before continuing with my latest blockbuster (page 4)…

TEEKAY -- Silly little pedantic thing, but when something subject to '1st' rights is published the said rights are then used up and you move on to 2nd rights which are yours to do with as you wish. It only means that the mag only has the right to publish once and that they are the first to publish the piece of writing.

DEBRA -- I can share endlessly about Scotland, having spent some 47 years here, since birth! Prisons too, since I used to work in the Scottish Criminal Justice System. Give me some specifics as to where you want you character to come from in Scotland and such. Duncan is a good solid Scottish name, more favoured in the Highlands and Islands than in the Lowlands. Haven't got time just now but let me know what you want and I'll see what I can do.

EDDIE -- I think it was that extract. I've seen it before, probably here.

BEN -- from a personal perspective I'd say that 6'6" guy didn't win -- I'd say he lost.

Have to go,


Teekay Tue Mar 6 16:09:10 PST 2001

TRUDY: I read an article somewhere about rights and so forth. I'm going to have to remember what I read it in and re check. It wasn't all that long ago so it shouldn't be too hard to do.
But I was under the distinct impression that the magazine that published those poems now had first Australian rights (forever) to them.

I was also looking at another magazine we have here, it's a real peoples magazine where people send in funny photos and true life stories, and in the editors letter in the last magazine she had a by line saying that if they saw any photos or stories that had been sold to them turning up in another magazine, then the contributor wouldn't be paid for them.

Really have to go and find that article now. I'm really curious myself.

Trudy Tue Mar 6 15:58:05 PST 2001

Hi HOWARD, are you making any money with your articles on Themestream?

DEBRA, you can spell my name wrong anytime...I answer to just about anything, as long as it's not nasty *grin*

TEEKAY, I'm sorry if I explained that incompletely...yes they would have sold you the right to print it in Australia...if you could sell it to say a Canadian publication at the same time that would be fine. But as soon as they print it in their Australian publication you can sell it to another Australian publication, or anywhere else, if you time limit...they just want it first. And yes I agree I guess if they sent something to you when they sent the cheque that by cashing the cheque you agreed...but again as soon as they publish it, it's your's to do whatever you want with again. Boy am I rambling here. Have I made any sense?

I don't think I could even get poems in those crappy publications *sigh* Mine are really crappy *grin*

BARNABUS, pass on the hot and sour soup recipe...I'm game to try them all until I find one he likes. I love a challenge!

CASSANDRA, never stay with someone who doesn't appreciate you...or someone you don't appreciate. Life's no fun that way. Glad to hear this relationship's going so well. *smile* It's nice when that happens.

OK hello to everyone else...have a nice night!


Teekay Tue Mar 6 15:52:14 PST 2001

BEN: Wow! a $30:00 entry fee! What's the prize?
We could have a good ol' bitch fest about postage fees and dollar conversions, but I think everybody here is sick of hearing me go on about them.
I understand though - I really do. :-)

Teekay Tue Mar 6 15:45:48 PST 2001

Hi All,

MARY: I think maybe your teeter totter is our see-saw. But that's a guess.

TAYLOR: I'm from Bathurst. N.S.W. It's great to have some one else from Australia here. Jai was the last and he's been gone for ages.

HEATHER: I'll bring the take away chinese. That's what I'm good at. Or a pizza.

GARIESS: The reception girls shouldn't be asking you what you want to see the doctor for. Where's the patient confidentiality in that?

ARIK: Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey ARIK. Long time no see.

HOWARD: Great cake. My Mum does stuff like that. Who does the other computer belong to? Your wife?


JACK: Have you changed the font on the notebook? It looks different.

DEBRA: Hey there. :-). Oh guess what. I rang the bookshop this morning and your book is out of stock so now I have to wait another 6 - 8 weeks.

HOWARD: I know what you're thinking. Just let it go.
Oh! Don't worry, I see HEATHER beat you to it anyway. :-D

RACHEL: I think well loved is a more appropriate word. Spoiled has such brattish connotations. Every one says to us about Ant, that they bet he's spoiled and I always think of bratty kids when I hear that word. I can't just agree with them & say 'well, yes, he is actually.' It woukd be so much easier if I could just do that. :-)

HEATHER: Well said. :-) How sad for those kids.

I'm a cake eater. Do we have any other cake eaters on the notebook???

RICHARD: Wow. Your parents sound really enlightened. And another thing. Those teenage years pass really quickly. Just a drop in the bucket they are. The really great stuff is yet to come.

EDDIE: That was lovely.

DEBRA: Tsk. RICHARD is now 14. I thought he was too wise to be just 13. :-)

Going now. Am not even going to look in the chat room in case someone is there. I am definitely working today.

Ben Woestenburg Tue Mar 6 15:21:17 PST 2001

sorry about the typos guys. I have thick fingers sometimes. Idweas=ideas
ben...slinking away

Ben Woestenburg Tue Mar 6 15:17:55 PST 2001

Holy smoke. There's not a chance I can read all of this before I have to leave for work within the next half hour. But I thought Paul Newman's character's name was Fast Eddy Felson, not Belson.

Happy birthday Allain. Hope it was better than mine. I spent a night unlike any other I've ever had. A friend phoned and said she broke her leg, spent an hour crawling through her back yard to reach the phone--she was trying to crawl out of her bedroom window to escape the clutches of an ex-boyfriend. I was lucky enough to run into a local Gendarme on the way around the corner, and he contacted the ambulance. I don't know why she didn't phone 9-1-1 instead of us...The ambulance took her to the hospital, and I told her I'd be there to pick her up if she needed a ride. She was trying to get hold of someone else that night and had to settle on us I guess. She phoned an hour and a half later. The best part of it all was that I was awaked with breakfast in bed. But I was bagged for the whole day after that, and still had to drink beer later that day with my buddy who was expecting it. (Okay, it was only Coronas.)
You have to wonder about some men and why they feel they have to beat women. The guy stands six foot six and weighs three hundred pounds. I guess he won.

Anyway, I spent the last few days working on my novella THE DAWN PATROL. Thanks Teekay, it reads so much better now. I printed it up and plan to mail it this weekend. Unfortunately, it's a thirty dollar entry fee, so what's that, sixty Canuck bucks? and probably ten buck in stamps. But sometimes you have to take the plunge. Entering contests is one of the things I promised myself this year, and this one looks unbelievable. Next up? I think I'll enter a story in the GLIMMERTRAIN contest. I've been thinking about it since I read a poem and analysis in last week's GLOBE AND MAIL, "LOVE IS NOT ALL", by Edna St. Vincent Millay. Blew me away. Idwas just came pouring in and I couldn't stop. It was pretty frustrating consdiering I was trying to get the other one finished. I decided that's what the title was going to be. Make my Momma proud to think that I was going to write a love story...sort of. I'm looking at ten thousand words, and hopefully will pare it down to about eight or so.

Happy belated Hallee. Now I have to get ready for work. Spent all day down on the computer, forgot about eating today. I don't think two hotdogs are going to last me until one a.m. I mangaed to make the kids their dinner, but of course I never thought about putting any aside for myself.
gotta go

Debra Tue Mar 6 14:42:49 PST 2001

Or the 90 percent of your friends who aren't as smart as you.


Debra Tue Mar 6 14:41:43 PST 2001


You're going to be all right. I have read every post you ever posted, and from what I see you are the smartest 13 year old I have ever had the pleasure of knowing.

Think of it this way, you will be an adult for 90 percent of your life. So don't worry about the 10% that you are not.


Heather Tue Mar 6 14:27:52 PST 2001

Richard! Don't give up! You may not realize just how many people think the same way you do. (Not about hanging yourself if it weren't for God)... Most of them are older than you, that's all. You can thank God for your understanding and sensitivity, and your depth of understanding. You won't make the many mistakes that those 'friends' of yours will, and you will find real love without breaking many hearts, including your own. Then you can discover all those so called secrets of sex, knowing that you and your beloved can do so without God's disapproval, or your friend's for that matter. They will be the ones wondering why they have a giant hole in their life while you don't.

Trust me. Keep writing and keep trying to change things no matter how futile it may seem. There are people listening, and there always will be. Chivalry is far from dead. Look at the notebook! I've never met so many men and women in one place who put so much value in joy and love and honesty, and and... I could go on for a few years.


Eddie French Tue Mar 6 14:27:13 PST 2001

Here is an excerpt from 'The Oregonian'

ABOARD THE MESSIAH -- The trawler's bloated net spilled tons of cod onto the deck, leaving it knee-deep in gray and white.
As Oregon and the world's toughest fishermen gather for the last great saltwater bonanza, who is in control?

"Here we go, here we go," Eddie French cried. "I don't wish for anything else. Just plenty of cod. If I get that, everything else will take care of itself."

"Fast Eddie" French dropped a second net into the Bering Sea to scoop up more cod. Fifteen-foot seas rocked the boat sharply and carried the threat of storm but did little to slow him down.

Back in French's home waters off Oregon, the Messiah can rarely take such big hauls of cod. But here within the 200-mile federal ocean zone off Alaska, these 30-ton catches are routine as the Messiah and a fleet of more than 50 other Oregon vessels dip into North America's greatest ocean harvest.

Perhaps that's it?

Richard Tue Mar 6 13:47:37 PST 2001

Uhg... two nights solid homework, 38 e-mails in the inbox and pages of new stuff on the notebook.

DEBRA: I actually don't dwell too much on the subject. Anyway, most of my wisdom and talent comes from my Mum & Dad. If they ever do dissaprove of anything I do they sit me down and explain why, talk to me about and help me to understand. They're very protective of me - I'm not allowed to watch films with higher certificates despite the fact nearly EVERYONE my age does - and I don't resent that like some might. I think the key thing there is that it's been explained to me, and I know there's a reason. Hey, I wasn't even allowed to watch Return of the Jedi until my parents talked to me about the way the Princess was presented as Jabba's slave and how it was the wrong way to think about women.

As for sex, I've only ever written anything about it twice. Both times it was because of the attitudes everyone around me has toward it. The reason I write about it now is because its evident all around me, the wrong attitudes and opinions, and I feel the need to express my own contradicting views. All my freinds are like, "Hey, sex, great, can't wait until I'm old enough to do it with some lasses!" Some other people haven't even waited that long. I get teased because I don't look at porn (thanks to the internet making it readily available). Just today I said something about real relationships not starting until you were a little older. One of my freinds laughed and said, "Okay explain this one to me." I explained there was a difference between sex and a relationship. The reply was "not to me."

Basically, I feel like drilling the point into their skulls. I write because I want to communicate these differences, but I might as well give up. Most of them are too blind to listen. Those who aren't will be afraid to be different.

Sheesh... teenage life is depressing. Good thing I've got God or might have hung myself a while ago.

Debra Tue Mar 6 11:12:10 PST 2001


Okay that's the best one yet. No, no kids and sex ever. I would die first. Just so you know.

I do love the English lauguage for the same reason it sometimes bites me in the ass.


Mary Tue Mar 6 10:48:21 PST 2001

HEATHER: The absolute best all-purpose frosting recipe I have ever used follows. I love trying other types of frostings and fillings, but this one never fails and is always a hit.

1 c. solid vegetable shortening
1 c. butter
2 tsp pure vanilla extract. (You can use imitation, but I am not vouching for it if you do)
1 2# bag confectioners sugar (about 8 cups)
4 TBS milk (give or take depending on the texture you want)

Cream the butter and shortening together in a bowl. Add vanilla. Add sugar one cup at a time, beating well on medium speed..scrape bowl often. With all sugar mixed in, it will appear dry. Add milk and beat at medium speed until light and fluffy. (Makes six cups)

You can make this chocolate by adding 1 1/2 c. cocoa and an additional 4 TBS of milk after you have added all the sugar.

I have a 5 quart KitchenAid mixer with a wire whip attachment, but a whip attachment for a hand-held mixer would work too. If you have this...I like to whip the finished frosting for a few minutes to beat a little extra air into it. It makes it taste very light and not as rich, as sometimes people think buttercream is too heavy of a frosting. It might be all in my head, but it seems to take coloring better after this step too. This isn't necessary though, just something I like to do. Makes it easier to pipe as well, but it still holds its form. (Just a tip)

Heather Tue Mar 6 10:08:52 PST 2001

Great idea!!!

Wow, didn't know there were so many cake decorators here. I've always wanted to get back into it, just to make our own birthday cakes, but last time I tried it I was a terrible icer. Wait now - the last time I tried was an awfully long time ago. Maybe the equipment is easier to use now. I squeezed and squeezed on that darned bag of icing, and when it finally came out it pretty much exploded.

Might be a technique I'm not aware of, or a particular consistency of icing I didn't achieve!

Well, we can't all decorate cakes.


Heather Tue Mar 6 10:04:59 PST 2001

Debra - be careful! Now it looks like you have had sex with five children, and you're husband didn't like it one bit!

You mean 'Of course I've had sex! I have five kids!"

Oh, clarity.

Arik! Great to see you!

Rachel, I'm looking forward to all you have to tell us!
Have a great nap and playtime. I know what you mean about spoiling kids with love and affection and attention - but that's not really spoiling at all! YOu can't spoil children with love. You can, however, spoil them with substitutes. I have had to watch my brother and sister in law's kids get worse over time, being spoiled with so many toys that they have two garage sales a year, and there are so many toy boxes it's hard to move in their house. The kids just want love, but they get video games, etc instead, and are ignored. Now at birthdays they don't even look at the presents. It all means nothing to the eldest any more. THe youngest just rips open the gifts and says, "Is that it?" I wrote and illustrated a little book for my nephew (the eldest) for part of his Christmas gift, and it's the first gift I've ever seen him get excited about, and he's only six years old.

So DO try to spoil your children with attention and big bundles of love! You and I both know it can't be done! :o) *big grin*

Mary Tue Mar 6 09:44:46 PST 2001

JERRY: I still have the scar on my knee from being thrown off the round-a-bout or merry-go-round in first grade. Treston Chappell, the little stinker that wound the thing up so fast ended up taking me to Homecoming my freshman year. Funny how things go 'round.

Rachel Tue Mar 6 09:18:53 PST 2001

Hi all - You guys are all so great. Thank you for sharing in my pregnancy and now in the joy of this birth. You have all been more supportive than you can know. The net is good for a lot of reasons. One of them being that people only know what you want them to. None of you really knew about the problems that came up with my pregnancy. There were a couple of bumps along the way and the fact that you all just kept on as normal as normal could be was really very comforting to me. You know a reminder that the world keeps turning and life keeps going on sort of thing. It was very soothing for me to see that. I have started to read the posts and will reply in the next few days.

Litter - I read your poem to Sebastian. He opened one eye and listened keenly to the words you wrote. Thank you.

All - My little boy is being such a sweet thing. He sleeps for five hours at a time through the night. I think that is excellent sleeping for a little guy.

Okay, I better go. My mother-in-law is on her way out to watch Sebastian so I can have a nap, shower, all that fun stuff. Then she and I will sit and play with Sebastian.

This little boy is going to be so, so spoiled! I'm not kidding about that. I can see it coming and I don't care to stop it (grins). I bet I'll regret that one day. Who am I kidding, all of my kids are spoiled. Well, as far as the love and attention thing goes they are, but just try to get an extra cookie out of me! That will be the day;o)

Ciao for now,


Debra Tue Mar 6 08:14:53 PST 2001


I wasn't asking the definition of plagiserism. You said you just had to do that here on the notebook. So I was asking what you meant by that.


No I would never say I hadn't had sex with five kids. My husband nor I would ever put up with it either. Good catch though.


That was some cake. I especially love the look on your grandson's face. Priceless.


Jerry Tue Mar 6 07:48:24 PST 2001

Mary - we just called them merry-go-rounds, like the ones at the carnival. I recall when I was very young, loving those dang things. One time, I was running around the outside, and a couple of bigger kids joined in. When I couldn't keep up instead of jumping on and enjoying the ride, I fell and never let go. Skinned both my knees up very bad, wore holes through my blue jeans then took all the skin off the knees and embedded them with small chunks of gravel. When I got home I caught particular hell for ruining my jeans, Z(we were very poor, and had no money to replace them, I had to wear them with large patches over the knees till I grew out of them) then mother cleaned the knees up with rubbing alcohol, then painted them with iodine. I think the cleansing hurt much worse then the injury. We had teeter totters too, another favorite of mine. In our country schools, we had teeter totters, but no merry go rounds, because they would have cost too much, so we could only play on them when we went to town, which was a real treat.


Jerry Tue Mar 6 07:18:15 PST 2001

JACK - HELP - I can't hardly read the notebook - I keep my text view on large - but it has no effect on the notebook today. Usually it makes it quite readable, but all it increases now is the text size of this box. Makes for very hard reading for my old decrepit eyes, have to lean my head WAY back to use the tri on my trifocals.


Mary Tue Mar 6 06:46:19 PST 2001

TINA: Use this link instead and bypass all the cards...much better and no rush.

Mary Tue Mar 6 06:42:27 PST 2001

TINA: Hope you are around, because you will probably have to act fast on this if you are interested. Above is a link to an e-card site....on the far right of the first frame is a link to a screensaver site that uses Hubble images in succession as your screensaver. Thought you might like to see that.

howard Tue Mar 6 06:38:29 PST 2001

Cakes? Did someone mention cakes? Take a look at the page listed above. You've seen the first ones, but scroll to the bottom to see my daughter Kristin and grandson Stephen at his birthday bash last week (in Arizona).
Kris made the cake, and he loved it!
My wife does cakes also, taught Kris. She does wedding, birthday, etc etc, but has slowed it down over the past few years. It's lots of work!

Mary Tue Mar 6 05:31:20 PST 2001

Every day I learn something about something else I have in common with you guys.

HALLEE: I do cakes too! I have three weddings under my belt and innumerous birthdays/anniversaries/graduations and one bah mitvah.

My husband is a pisces.

I loved "The Hustler" and agree that it is one of the best films ever. GS: Did you see/like/hate "Texasville"? It was based on a Larry McMurtry book. Cybill Shephard and Jeff Bridges played in it.

HEATHER: I was hoping you would show up in chat last night, sorry you couldn't make it in.

back later

Arik Tue Mar 6 04:15:07 PST 2001

Hey guys!

How are you everyone? Whats new? I am back... again!
I feel so bad about comming and leaving all the time.. I know it is not very nice, but I'll try to stay here a long time this time ;-).

So whats new everyone?

Hallee Tue Mar 6 01:46:15 PST 2001

HEATHER: Actually, on the side to make a little extra money, I decorate cakes and make little fancy deserts. Wedding cakes - birthday cakes - whatever. SOOO - I shall bring the cake.

HOP: What might you be getting?

Someone said they were a pices whose birthday I did not have written down. Who was it?


gariess Mon Mar 5 22:46:11 PST 2001

Fast Eddie Belsen was the title character played by Paul Newman in The Hustler, one of the great black and white films of all ages. He played the same character twenty years later in The Color of Money. In color the character and the story had none of the gritty visuality of the exteriors in the original, or the realism of the pool hall interiors. I know this is not the question you asked, but you know how I will go on about films.

Your eye is sharper than mine today. I read that line of Debra’s "I would write a sex scene but I have never really done it before." I must be getting so used to the instant edit feature I have developed from reading too many posting boards that I correct things without thinking about them. On other boards people often post corrections to typos and mispellings that I didn’t catch, and I have to look back to find out that I read it as though it was correct. Of course, Debra was just being a bit ambiguous rather than incorrect.

Cold Stream is not on the map. It actually has a different name. It is a bit east of Houlton, Maine and not too far from a bigger town. My mother’s family always called it Cold Stream beacause of a river that runs through it which for reasons I don’t understand is cold year round. The town is so tiny that when we went there in June of ’97 we wandered around in the main street in the middle of a weekday afternoon and no car came by to make us move. I remember wondering why they bothered to pave the street. Quite a distinction, to have more trees than people, The Maritimes are a national treasure of Canada in and of themselves. They have geat natural beauty. I would not bemoan the lack of a big city. Actually, I think we have more trees on Cape Cod than people, but we have a lot of small trees. I never counted them.

Would you believe I just read the paper that came with a prescription I have been taking for a few years, and among a long list of things it mentions that if a prolonged and painful erection occurs, see your physician immediately. I never knew blood pressure medicine could do that. Can you imagine the girl at the desk when you call in. "What do you want to see the doctor for, sir?"

"Well, I have this boner. It won't go away, and it really hurts…"


Heather Mon Mar 5 22:24:28 PST 2001

The plum jam was my Grandmother's infamous recipe.

Heather Mon Mar 5 22:22:38 PST 2001

Here are a few more...

...perfectly putrid

'Plum Jam, Slightly Burnt' (a real label)

"I can't believe it's not curdled"

"I'd rather eat my umbrella"

"Did you kill it first?"

Scratched Eggs


Violent Onion Sauce

Leaping Flame of Flambe (Toast and Jam)

Shush browns (As in "Shhhh! Don't tell your brother I burnt the hash browns!")

Lugnuts and a slosh of battery acid

"Let's have cereal for dinner"....

Heather :o)

I've gotten much better with age. MUCH BETTER.

Heather Mon Mar 5 22:14:42 PST 2001

Lucky you, Jack, lucky you! Fish licence. Reminds me of Monty Python. He had a pet fish named Eric...

Cassandra - good to see you, late at night or not!

I tried with all my might to get into the chat room tonight and the darned page wouldn't let me in! Must have been at capacity. Chat room hoggers!

Sounds like the virtual banquet is coming along perfectly! I did some short order myself, Mark. Nice when all the prep is done, little bowls of chopped everything. *sigh*
I dislike most of the prep and love the nitty gritty of the mixing and heating up parts; commonly called cooking - on occasion called 'making a royal mess'. Once in a blue moon charged as a 'bung job'.

Night all


Cassandra Mon Mar 5 22:01:55 PST 2001

Taylor- Depends on your mother... My mother is also a creative spirit and she loves the way I write now. The sexy stuff especially...

Barnabas- whoops, I thought since your one entry ended with Edgar that you were he. Imagine my dismay. I had meant to say hello to you... not that I know Edgar. No offense to either of you I just get easily confused sometimes. It's a pleasure to meet you. :)

Cassandra Mon Mar 5 21:53:54 PST 2001

Hi all,

The skies are white tonight above me here in Albany. We're right in the stretch of the storm that's dropping 2-4 inches of snow an hour. The storm amazes me, as I sit here and listen to the woo hoo's of people playing outside. We're all pretty positive about classes being canceled tomorrow.I personally am hoping two of my projects get bumped a week or so away... procrastinator that I am. The clean-up on this one is going to be arduous (sp?) though.

Hello to Edgar, we haven't met previously, it's a pleasure.

Trudy- That's why I've kept him around for so long. Normally I trade in for a newer model at about 4 months... that is if they don't meet my standards. I guess you could call me a heartbreaker, but usually it happens the other way around. What would really break hearts is if I were to have stayed with the any number of people that didn't appreciate me. But my mother didn't raise no shrinking violet here. :)

It's so beautiful outside. I think people tend to forget that weather isn't malicious, it does what it does naturally, without thought or feeling. It doesn't keep vendetas... it's neutral. But if you really think about the glimmer of rain drops in the light, clinging to grassblades like dew... or the soft layer of sparkling white snow on every little tree branch... it seems a lot more on the good side... Guess I'm just happy tonight. :)

Next week is spring break for us, and if I bring my computer home you guys can expect me here a lot more. I may even be able to take part in the shortie for next week... hell, I might write one tomorrow for this week's. Just don't expect it until very late at night (when i can actually get webpages to load) though.

Allein- I've been drawing today, and I'll be doing more tomorrow, and then photocopying and scanning. So expect some mail sometime in the semi-near future. :)

Happy Birthday all you crazy Pisces! I've got two Pisces in my family, my father and older brother were both born under the fish. Both fit the profile to an extent, it's a shame I don't have the "drive and ambition" of my Capricorn birth though... maybe in time, as I mature...

'later gators, it's sleep time for me!


taylor Mon Mar 5 21:51:20 PST 2001

Before I go heres my thoughts...
Dont let your religious beliefs hinder your writing
ive recently read stephen Kings Christine, no need to censor yourself if its in the character's character...

but I still have one problem myself, i've stopped worrying about censoring and went all out, and boy did I ever, but one thing concerns me is what would my mother think of the way I write?

got to go now, think my paper is calling me... and the pen is burning a whole in my pocket
time to write

taylor Mon Mar 5 21:46:06 PST 2001

Barnabos: no im relatively new to this site, found it a couple of days ago

Jack Beslanwitch Mon Mar 5 21:35:36 PST 2001

Heather: Sounds like a great potluck. Just wish we could virtually arrive on time ;-). If so, I would add two additional items to the menu in addition to our hot and sour soup. My signature dish, Kitchen Sink Rife Pilaff and, since we are going out diving tomorrow, I could grab a couple of dugeness crabs two or three or four to throw in a boiling pot. Seriously, one of the things I hope to check on tomorrow is getting our Washington State shellfish license so we can indeed harvest crabs while we are out diving. I mean it is super simple. Just reach out, pick them up and look at their bottom to make sure they are the right sex and species and then toss them in your goodie bag. Something tells me we are going to be eating a lot more crab this year.

taylor Mon Mar 5 21:26:11 PST 2001

Teekay: im from kalgoorlie west aus.

my thoughts on sex scenes: theyre ok if they fit the plot, but in most cases they seem to slow the story down...
except for the Harrison Ford movie Random Hearts, so boring a sex scene would've sped it up

Why I write: I dont know, I just have to, its become like a compulsion or an a good way

And last night I think I listened to my muse and wrote for 4 hrs straight, and the 4 hrs sleep was the best I had in ages

Mary Mon Mar 5 21:15:26 PST 2001

Wow, the natives are restless tonight. Usually I am all alone this late at night, well except for Teekay who is actually in the middle of her day.

HOP: A hobby horse can be a rocking horse....but to me a hobby horse is a carved wooden horse head on a stick. My daughter loves hers, except for when she is galloping down the hallway and my son grabs the back end of the stick and she goes somersaulting over the horse's head. My son thinks this is dreadful funny until my daughter seeks her vengeance.

"Sit&Spin" is the actual name of the's right on the box! A round-a-bout is a small metal merry-go-round (carousel without horses) commonly found on children's playgrounds here. The children each grab a handle (6-8 handles),run around the thing and jump on after they get it going a good speed. I have been thrown from many a round-a-bout by over zealous boys who spin too fast. (The story of my life it seems...hehe)

Do you have teeter-totters? Do you call them the same thing? I love teeter-totters and I can still fit on those! I am afraid I would look like a witch riding a broom if I dared ride a hobby horse at my age. Hmmm. Nobody would see me in my own hallway though. My luck my hubby would grab the end of the stick and send me flying heels over head.


Teekay Mon Mar 5 21:01:30 PST 2001

Okay, I'm not playing the pets names game anymore. I've only got about 10 internet people to send them to and I've already sent them out, but now they keep coming back and I just don't have the energy to send them all out again.

MARY: I haven't even gone to the site. I'm not 100% sure what I was doing. I think I was off to get you something to do with email. anyway, I've finally managed to get those windows closed. Probably when you left.

RHODA: Got the chapters -thanks.

That's really it for today - and I mean it this time.

Mary Mon Mar 5 20:56:44 PST 2001

TEEKAY: No wonder you quit answering me. How rude! Hehe, just kidding.

Hope you liked the site, but I must admit I was full of malarky when I told you there wasn't much missing from the hard copy. I don't remember all of the articles not being there. I would have sworn they were. Drat.

Teekay Mon Mar 5 20:54:04 PST 2001

TRUDY: The market for really crappy poems is an really seedy magazines. Crappy poems seem to give those types of magazines just that little touch of intellectualism.
It was many moons ago. I am not proud of my actions, but I wanted to see my work in print and I also wanted some money for it.
they were nice crappy poems. Not seedy crappy poems.

Barnabas "Hop" Mon Mar 5 20:52:04 PST 2001

Shouldn't the "sit and spin thing" be called a "round-a-bout?" Could this be a dialect word? Sort of like "tap" and "faucet"? I prefer "tap" by the way.
I just invented a saying "I prefer time on my hands then on my wrist." I never wear a watch because it always makes time go so slow. Anyone understands how I feel?

I know American's spell it "check" but shouldn't Australians (like Teekay) spell it "cheque?"
Well she's now spelling it the right(British) way so I can't complain now.

Plagiarism= downright copying. If I copy a Website design of ideas then it could be considered plagiarism, I'm not to sure if this is true or what degree of copying would be considered plagiarism but better safe than sorry.

Hello. Have we met?
Personally it all really depends on how much you trust the publishers, the other authour and your own opinion. If for example you know the authour does not plagiarise then you should have no worries. Otherwise perhaps you should ask for the authour's sample chapter as well since the other person is reading yours or tell them you do not wish for the company to show other people your work just yet.

Now I get it....

Be careful not to mix New Zealand with Australia (I don't care personally, I'm not native of either country) you never know what might happen.
I'm thinking it's because its a taboo subject that's why there are so many swear words on it. It wouldn't be a swear word if it wasn't taboo and it wouldn't be taboo if it was more open. But since it's a taboo everybody uses it anyway simple to go against the flow (I hate people who do this, going against the flow simple because it's against the flow).
"I am not a linguist. I am not a linguist. I am not a linguist. I am not a...."
You're just being evil trying to get me to guess. Now I have to chant the above to myself just to make sure I don't.

Oh good, I see most people like Chinese cuisine. I'm very Pro-Chinese myself. I wonder why....:-)

What a good idea. By the way, what is a "hobby horse?" Would it be a wooden rocking horse? Or the one attached to a carousel?
Hello. Have we met? I don't recall seeing your name before.

Hello. I sure we haven't met.

I hope Sebastian is alright. I hope you get this message after you have a good long recuperative week.

Now if I can only remember what I said.
That reminds me, maybe I should ask my mother for her "hot and sour" soup recipe. It's probably different from what most people have because I have no idea what everyone is talking about.
The one my mother cooks involves throwing in salted and vinegar-soured vegetables, tomato and bean curd (also called tofu).

Hello. Have we met?

Teekay. I think this is it for today. Mon Mar 5 20:47:26 PST 2001

TRUDY: Really? i thought first Australian rights meant they had first rights to it in Australia.
I didn't sign anything, but with the cheque they sent this thing about the first Australian rights so I though, but accepting payment, I was accepting their conditions.

Teekay Mon Mar 5 20:45:07 PST 2001

MARY: I haven't got a clue what's going on, but I can't get back in, and I can't close the chat window, but the inside of it is hollow. Go figure.

DEBRA: The pet email. Sorry if it's abrupt, but I just copied and pasted it. No one made it pretty for me either. They just bossed me about too. :-)

Teekay Mon Mar 5 20:42:26 PST 2001

DEBRA: What email? Obey what?

Teekay Mon Mar 5 20:41:27 PST 2001

MARY: Really wierd things are happening to my chat window. And it was only after I minimised it that I realised what you asked for is my email address. Is that right? Have I gone all through this for nothing.
Maybe my modems overheated or something. I'm still trying to get back. I feel like Indiana Jones.

Rhoda Mon Mar 5 20:03:27 PST 2001


Here is the photopage we were discussing on the chat.


Rosemary Mon Mar 5 20:02:12 PST 2001

Evening Writers,

Really, I'm not trying to be mean, (I promise) but you need to re-read your posts before you click the final button. Do you realize that besides calling Trudy-Turdy, you told us you have never had sex? Now you have to explain all those children. And why your husband puts up with it.

I have goose eggs. They make the most beautiful Quiche. It comes out very yellow no matter what other ingredients you add. They taste just like chicken eggs, but one goose egg equals three or four regular eggs.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY to all it applies to.

Out of here,

Allein Mon Mar 5 19:56:09 PST 2001

Heather - You want me to bring something Japanese? I make pretty good Top Raman. :)

I had a good birthday. I went out to dinner with my family. We ate at an Italian place - they have great salad there.

Thanks to everyone who wished me a happy birthday. :)

Debra Mon Mar 5 19:54:34 PST 2001


Yes, you're right it's getting way old here. Sorry about the misspelling of your name. I meant nothing by it. I do stuff like that all the time. Ask Gariess.


Count me in for the Fettucini. What do you think 7 pounds aught to do it? I add garlic in the water when I boil.


Thanks for the emial.


Thanks for the email. I will obey.


I meant that I sometimes want to write stuff that I'm not sure I want to write. I always figured sex scenes were on the top ten list. I think I might write one anyway because my novel needs one. I'd like to see myself much less restricted years from now but not feeling like I'm goinging against my beliefs at all. Sounds like mission impossible. Huh?
Also on the email. I'll send it back tomorrow.


I have a Scottish character in my novel. Can you share anythng at all about Scotland? Do you know any prision's names or names of airports? Do you know what the police are called? His name is Duncan. Is that a good Scottish name? Or is it a less popular name? I'm hoping it can be compared to a name like Chuckie. You know it might have class on the right person but on the wrong one. Not!


howard Mon Mar 5 19:33:40 PST 2001

HEATHER -- I make a mean peachberry cobbler, but I'm not much for baking. Now, onion pie is a very nice diversion, sometimes almost sweet enough to serve for dessert. I think I'll try my hand at a nice flan too. But my forte is poached chicken breast, with roasted garlic, seared vegetables and button mushrooms, served with homemade linguini and a mild cheddar-garlic alfredo sauce. Then again, I've been seeing fresh asparagus in the stores -- and an asparagus quiche can be a real early spring joy! Some of Mark's crusty fresh bread to accompany it, a salad of fresh greens and a balsamic vinaigarette, and voila! a meal fit for a middle-aged guy from Lisle! :-)

I posted another entry to Themestream yestereve -- a send-up I wrote a few years back, on Email conservation. Just ran across it in my archives.

Bright spot of the evening -- I was reading the fine print in a Viagra ad (nevermind...) and found the following:

"In the rare event that an erection lasts four hours or more please contact your physician immediately."

Oh my!
Oh please!


Mon Mar 5 18:17:06 PST 2001

Boy did it get busy here today....good thing I checked in again *grin*

HEATHER, took me a minute to figure out what to throw ... you'll have to check your markets for me! And yes I'll bring fresh rolls and fruit baskets to the potluck.

GARIESS, Never heard of Cold Stream but will check it out on a map...sounds like it's still a tiny littel place. We have lotsof thoise rural areas in the province but there are a few big cities too though nothing like Toronto or Vancouver. We've still got more trees than people!

DEBRA, hope your car keeps going in the direction you need it to, but I really think getting that reversal problem fixed is a good was funny to us for half a day but it was getting old fast so I can imagine having a full time car doing it!

OK all this talk of food has made me hungry...time for a snack then bed!

Night all.


Trudy Mon Mar 5 18:02:35 PST 2001

TEEKAY, first Australian rights means they get to publish your poem once then rights revert back to you as soon as they publish it, unless there is a time limit included in a contract. Of course, for anything, if you do NOT sign a contract, rights remain with you period.

And you always want to maintain rights to your never know when that "crappy" poem may turn up on a greeting card or in some song...and wouldn't it be better if you got money for that than someone else? Or what about when you're famous and they'll pay you oodles of money to publish anything you've written including your grocery'll want to resell those "crappy" poems then.

Now tell me where is this market that accepts crappy poems? I've got a ton for them! *grin*


Mark Mon Mar 5 17:46:09 PST 2001

DEBRA -- You wrote, "I would write a sex scene but I have never really done it before." Well, so much for that, eh?

HEATHER -- I bake bread. I have also been dinner cook at two Italian restaurants. The real talent there is in the hands of the preparation cooks. I do a reasonable imitation of a chef when I can take prepared supplies and send them out. I speak well with diners as well. Presentation.

I've been baker/prep cook/breakfast cook on an offshore oil rig, pizza maker, short order cook several times, Italian dinner cook, waiter, and (it all began with) dishwasher.

VIV -- See the previous paragraphs. I do very little in the way of extensive cooking. I'm the cook for our Thanksgiving holiday meal; that'll take a couple of days, we put out 20 plates. But I am habituated to it by now and don't have to think much about it. I'm really a glorified short-order cook. I like to walk in, get everything ready to hit the stove or oven, and get it all out on hot plates at the same time. Sometimes I make bread just because I like to, and sometimes I'll need to kill some time in the kitchen, so I start bread dough. Beyond that I do little prep.

Litter Mon Mar 5 17:21:29 PST 2001

HEATHER -- I'm Scottish, what else could I bring but the food of the Gods...

Heather Mon Mar 5 17:12:33 PST 2001

Litter! How could I forget to add you to the banquet? And Eddie! Sheeesh. There are so many of us in the NB these days!

What would you bring?


Heather Mon Mar 5 17:07:16 PST 2001

AND TINA! Tina and Rachel can bring the skiis, because we will so be needing exercise after this banquet to end all banquets.

Litter Mon Mar 5 17:06:19 PST 2001

Hi People!

Belated Happy Birthdays to HALLEE and , I think, on-time Birthday Greeting to ALLEIN.

Zipper debate -- all I'm gonna say is oooooooyyyyyaaaaaaahhhhh!

Sex debate -- I have to agree with all that has been said up until now. My problem is not so much with sex but with language. To accurately portray some aspects of life in several of the areas where I have live and/or am writing about, the language can be, and in many instances must be, pretty vile -- that is the way that some people talk and it just wouldn't ring true to a 'home' readership if I were to sanitise it.

True Story -- A number of years ago my brother and I were having a drink in a local pub. At one end of the bar, down a couple of steps, was a pool table and a couple of fairly drunk guys playing. One of them was constantly warned about his language by the landlord. After a while the landlord informed the swearer that, if he continued, he would be ejected and barred from the pub. The drunk turned to his mate and said something very close to: "That c*%& says I'm f'ing swearing -- Am I f'ing swearing? F&%$'s sake! I'm not f'ing swearing! Tell that c*%& that I'm not f'ing swearing, will you."

Several seconds later, still protesting his f'ing innocence, he and his friend hit the street outside. I live in an ex-mining village where the f-word is merely 'punctuation' and that is what I have to portray. Ho hum!

Further to Eddie's link to his writing at, If you go and have a look at that then please make a little detour to the 'UK Glance' news section, at an article entitled "Disability Dismay -- Mobility Benefits Shocker"

EDDIE -- why do I have this compulsion to call you Fast Eddie? Oh yeah, I'm doing a screenplay tentatively called "Bog, Bitch and Fast Eddie" about a Folk Group (UK) called Sweet Folk All… I'll have to pop along to Laughsend myself and have a look see.

FARGO -- I've seen this a couple of times and I like it lots. I like the portrayal of the untidy, unplanned and unnecessary violence -- Just as I imagine it would be for less than intelligent criminals? (And I used to work with lots of these!)

Okay, I probably forgot to say lots, but I'm going to bed anyway.

Ciao for now,


Heather Mon Mar 5 17:05:49 PST 2001

Debra - I'm a Taurus, but you can wish me Happy Birthday any day! I think there was some confusion due to the overwhelming number of fishheads (I mean Pisces) we have in our illustrious midst!

I'm cheeky today. Must be the clams.
:o) *big, shellfish-eating grin*

Yes, yes, Dinner at my place. Howard can cook, though! Wait - let's make it a potluck..!
Trudy - would you bring the fresh breads and fruit baskets?
Wouldn't that be a blast? Richard could bring something English, Gariess could bring some freshly dug clams. Ben could bring the maple syrup.
Jack and Fran could bring the hot and sour soup.
Mark, I hear you're a good cook too! What's your dish, dishy?
Kru, promise you'll bring along some of those famous chickens we've heard about. Jerry, I've never tasted Ox-tail soup. We'd be honoured to give it a whirl.
Mary, what's your specialty? Viv , Hannah and Allein can bring the tempura and rice and sushi...
Debra, how are you at Fettucini? Sasquatch - would you be so kind to rustle up some fine berries? And some wild spices! Rrrramon, what'll you bring? Hop? What about you?
Hallee, what's your specialty? Teekay? What's your favourite thing to cook? Americo, Jon, and Pussy; do tell!
Ah, can't forget baking. Howard and I will make pies, I'm sure. Who's bringing the cake? Who are the bakers among us? Wait - Mary, was that your recipe for snickerdoodles? Yes, it was!

If I missed anybody, feel free to bring cream pies to throw in my face. We'll all bring lampshades.
Hey, there's another shortie on food. The notebooker's banquet...


Teekay Mon Mar 5 16:38:56 PST 2001

HEATHER: Yep, we'll definitely have to storm Hollywood. Especially with that pay rise they're getting.

Mon Mar 5 16:33:39 PST 2001

I'll be in chat for a little while.


Hallee Mon Mar 5 16:32:07 PST 2001

DEBRA: I sent you the article I wrote. I wasn't about the debate of whether or not to write a love scene, it was an article dealing with, "okay, I'm writing a love what."

Let me know if you don't get it.

GARIESS: Har har har - actually, he called me for my birthday, and they were making noises about the storm then. I teased him about it - funny - he didn't get the joke.

HEATHER: Thanks - now I look old.



Teekay Mon Mar 5 16:30:34 PST 2001

Morning All,

ALLEIN: Ice cream cake? Gurrrrgh.

HEATHER: Gurrrrrghhhh. Geez, what a horrible story. Once when I was about 10 I knelt on this razor blade. One of the old fashioned ones with those killer blades, and it sunk about an inch into my knee. I was trying to look at myself in the mirror at the time.
Fat lot of sympathy I got for it though, my parents thought I was trying to shave my legs at the time. I figure if I had that difficult a time at shaving my legs I probably needed sympathy. And medication. :-)

TAYLOR: Whooo hoooo another Australian. What state are you from?

TRUDY: I'm not quite sure what this magazine does as far as rights are concerned. I'm hoping they are willing to just take first Australian rights for a year, hopefully less.
The other times I had work published (some crappy poems) I had no idea and the magazine got first Australian rights fullstop. I imagine they would be happy enough to give them back to me now, after all, it's been years, but I don't really want them.

HEATHER (again): Wow, I'm really stoked that you like Australia so much. I agree there is a lot of talent here and the land is beautiful and we have a wonderful medical system (touchwood) BUTBOY! DO OUR BANKS SUCK BIG TIME!

DEBRA: I loved 'Dumb & dumber'! 'something about Mary left a lot to be desired'. I'll send those photos real soon.

MARY: I enjoyed 'something about Mary' to begin with and I think it got to the apartment stage where they had a dog & I think they were hiding from someone??? and it just started to go downhill from there, so I tuned out & went to bed. It may have improved, but I'd given up by then.

RHODA: I think when Australians potray Australians in movies they do it pretty well, but when someone from another country takes a jab at it, it can be right off the mark.
I watched an episode of the Simpsons where they came to Australia, and the American idea of the australian is really quite cringeable.

HALLEE: I am sooooo sorry I missed your birthday. And I even have it written in my little b. book. Well, to make up for it, I'm taking you to HEATHER'S tonight for some yummy clam stuff in a sort of sauce which sounds quite delicious.

JERRY: Yeah, that is strange. I love it when things like that happen.

MARY: Lovely. Well said. *clap, clap, clap*

JERRY: Top form. Well spoken *clap,clap,clap*

HOWARD: Jolly good advice old chap, jolly good. *clap,clap,clap*

HEATHER: Well said. HALLEE & I will be around later for dinner. *clap,clap,clap*

My hands hurt.

Ummmmm, yep, I think that's about it.

Have a fun and productive day you guys.

May your ideas continue to flow and your pens never run out of ink. :-)

Heather Mon Mar 5 16:28:53 PST 2001

Rhoda, I think you're absolutely right about the sex issue and the last twenty years swinging too far in the opposite direction from the Victorian age. It's pretty hard to strike a balance on this one. I have been surprised with the things my daughter knows about just from hearing things at school - things I never heard boo about until I was quite a bit older, and still none the wiser. I clarified what I thought she could handle, and the rest I had to say something I tried my darndest never to say because it is an assumption that children can't understand: "When you're older." It's not that I don't think she can understand, but I'd rather her not to have to. I just feel that to not even know of these things until she's a few years older equals more time she can spend without the worries of it, or attaching any feelings, fears or (probably incorrect) notions to the whole subject.
Anyhow, it's up to us to strike the balance in our own minds, and to sum it all up, Rhoda is absolutely right. Sex is a sacred consummation of souls, hearts, and bodies, celebrating their oneness together, and should be treated as such. In fiction however, sometimes our characters have yet to learn that, and it is up to us to decide if we will 'illustrate' their path to wisdom. There's a lot to learn from character's mistakes.

Maybe that's the real problem in society - no one reads enough any more, and perhaps what is read is lacking somehow.
The movie business relies on several things to make money. One of those things is the sexual act. Another is violence. It's not right, but that's the way it is for now.
I'm sure if we write our masterpieces, we can start changing it. Oh, and we'll have to take over Hollywood when we've written our share of bestsellers.


Debra Mon Mar 5 16:26:29 PST 2001

I believe I owe you all about five question marks where I put a period instead. My husband was standing right behind me waiting for me to get the tax stuff so he could go to my dad's and do the taxes.

So here they are ?????. Sorry.

Here's my email address too. I forgot to put that in.

gariess Mon Mar 5 16:26:00 PST 2001


Don’t hold back, man. Tell us what you really thought of the Hannibal movie.


You are in New Brunswick (you probably know this already.) It is supposed to sound more like. "Wow, you are in New Brunswick?" My mother came from New Brunswick. A place called Cold Stream. Not too far from the Maine border. I went there once. It is incredibly rural. My mother remembers it as even more so. She says they didn’t even get electricity till after WWII. It is quite a pretty place. Many farms. We have so few farms on Cape Cod. We do have cranberry bogs.

I have to go. We are in that storm that Hallee’s brother brought to New York, and the house is about to blow down. Hallee’s brother brought enough storm to New York to reach all the way to Cape Cod. Supposed to be worse tomorrow. The Flemish Cap was a bad place for Billy Tyne in the hundred year storm, and it won’t be much better tomorrow. They will be talking about the Andrea Gail tonight at the Crow’s Nest in Gloucester. At least there’s no sword fleet at sea now.


Debra Mon Mar 5 16:08:18 PST 2001


Thanks for that one.

Did you notice I got brave and posted my pictures. Of course that is with Mary's help.

They are way down there.

If you would like a peek.

I would to see yours.


Debra Mon Mar 5 16:02:57 PST 2001


First Happy Birthday. I'm a Pisces too.

Howard, Jerry, Mary, Hallee, Heather, Rhoda:

I had to turn off my computer because we were getting dangerous lightening storms mixed in with the hail, rain and snow. I dont' know if you heard but we are getting a huge storm. I live in the far right hand corner of Rhode Island. It is all hills so the lighenting seems more dangerous. Well a lot has happened since I asked that question.

I agree with all of you even though some of you are disagreeing. I think sex is natural and beautiful. I would write a sex scene but I have never really done it before. Speaking of one, did any of you have a problem figuring out what Audrey and Tim were going to do in Passion Flower? Maybe I started the ball rolling enough without getting into it all.

Yes, I have been married for 13 years. I love my husband and also being with him in that way very much. I don't know why my emotions are so mixed. I'm not sure I would write a murder scene. I have eight plots and none of them have a murder. What about Andrew Dice Clay and Jay Leno one is clean and the other not. One has lasted the test of time and the other not. You see what I mean. I would rather read and write a more complicated story then write sex scenes. Although I like a few sex scenes too. See what I mean my muse needs medication.

I write to please my urge to write and create something that becomes a living thing. Did you ever notice that when you are in the middle of a story and you leave it and come back to it, when you are pressing the key to bring it up, if feels like you are waiting for something with a life of it's own to appear. I want those living things to be whole and have all their parts. I don't want them to be freaks and have too many legs or not enough. The reason why I would ask my priest is he is so honest. He would never tell me to hold back if he knew I didn't have to. Also, sometimes when I have a problem, it goes away when I talk to him. I am still me I haven't changed into something bland. Believe me, I would never go bland. NEVER!

But the question remains why do I still have mixed emotions on this issue.

You guys are the best.



gariess Mon Mar 5 15:48:07 PST 2001


You may already have jumped on about this already, but I must bring to your attention, that way you spelled Trudy's name in the salutation of your recent post. Again, I lift directly from the page. Turdy,

If we didn't know you and have such affection for you, we would probably take offence on Trudy's behalf. I shudder at the thought of someone named Proc or Kent showing up in NB. The relapse into the Anglo-Saxon vocabulary of one syllable words could make for a very interesting forum. I go now to read the posts between yours and this. I may find my admonition quite redundant.

no mercy,


Heather Mon Mar 5 15:26:09 PST 2001

Oh, my, I forgot again. Hallee, you musn't look any older cause I goofed and forgot to wish you a HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

...belated, though it is.


Rhoda Mon Mar 5 15:22:26 PST 2001


I have only read Francine River's Christian books, and they are great. Her early Christian romances dealt tastefully, but REALISTICALLY about sex. That is why I can read her stuff, but have trouble reading other Christian books.

I don't think sex is the question here. The question is context. I relate to the story of the science fiction author HOWARD has talked about. I know a lot of writers who honestly, and perhaps correctly believe that unless they include very sensual sex scenes in their books, they will not sell. Fact is, as a reader, I am getting tired of running into gratuitious scenes in books where I least suspect to find them. It takes wisdom and descretion to know where to draw the line, to know when best to include sex and how. I am afraid that for many such ability is sadly lacking.

People should not be coerced to write something they morally or tastefully are not comfortable with anymore than people ought to be coerced into reading it. There is a considerable amount of social and peer pressure now to not only tolerate an ever increasing sexual presence in our reading material, but for authors to include it. Very few people will refuse because to do so is to run the risk of being thought of as intolerant--a prude. Then you get thrown at you JERRY'S time-worn argument about accepting the old beliefs that sex is dirty.

The Victorians were way out of line in their treatment of sexuality. Over the years, society has tried to correct that. Unfortunately, in the past twenty years, the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction. Publishers and members of the media have used sex as an easy way to boost their sales and to draw attention. In pushing the envelope, they have crushed the letter and as a result have wrecked havoc in many impressionable young people's (older people as well, but the damage to young people is espacially telling) lives by selling them the lie that sex is nothing different than eating or breathing. Look around us in the numerous abortions, teenage births, diseases, divorces, and used and abused people.

Sex is a beautiful thing and created by God. It was instituted not only for procreation but to bind a man and a woman together and to give them the opportunity to share something unique and special, something each could not share with another human being in the entire world. It is spiritual, and as it is spiritual, it was never meant to be demeaned or abused, laughed at, or corrupted. Sex is powerful. Not only can it nurture love and create life, but used wrongly, it can destroy. So, sex should be respected. Is it? Maybe that is the question we should ask ourselves whenever we think to write it.


Mary Mon Mar 5 14:43:16 PST 2001

HEATHER: How could something called "Naughty Pine" not be delicious? Hehe.

I am horribly remiss in my HAPPY BIRTHDAYS!!!! I know how great it felt on my birthday when you were all so kind to wish me a happy day. SOOOO:


Hallee Mon Mar 5 14:19:58 PST 2001

DEBRA: Never mind -can't find your email address - I thought it was in my address book, but somehow, it's not. Anyway, let me know if you want it.


Hallee Mon Mar 5 14:17:14 PST 2001

DEBRA: I agree with everything everyone said, specifically Jerry. So, I'll save the redundancy. But, I happened to write an article about a year ago on the subject (someone dared me to - I don't know, I guess I have a hard time resisting a "writing dare"), and since I can't pull it up on Themestream for some illusive reason, I'm sending it to you in the body of an email. It might help you out some.

JERRY: Thanks*.


Heather Mon Mar 5 13:56:16 PST 2001

Mary: I could write pornography too, probably too easily, but the thought of my kids telling their teachers what I do for a living has me cringing, too! My husband wouldn't mind I'm sure... He'd be the first to show my book to his mother! Actually, he'd be the only one. (Her collection is where he read his first hot stories, and she's a Catholic) YIPES!
Don't ask me if she's a practicing Catholic.
Don't ask me if she still collects those kinds of stories. I have no idea. I don't want to ask her either!

I did write a naughty little story once, called "Naughty Pine". You don't want to know. It is delicious.


Heather Mon Mar 5 13:50:11 PST 2001

Well, Howard, I don't have to worry about what Wayne's going to eat! He's working evening shift tonight, and wouldn't eat o.oooo43 ounces of clam if I paid him top prize. All five pounds for ME. Wish they'd weigh the darn things without the shell! But then they'd be dead...

I am getting hives just waiting for dinner.

Debra, I think what Howard and Mary and Jerry say all has merit and to really think this issue through before you go and try to write a sex scene if it's bothering you. If you're too worried about what is ok to write and what's not, then your scene will come out jilted or contrived. As Mary (I think) said, you can allude to the actual act itself without having to describe it in detail, and often sex scenes written in that way (leaving the imagination to do its work) will come out very well indeed. In 'Madame Bovary' by Flaubert: The carriage windows steamed up, and the carriage just kept driving around and around as the two inside made love. There isn't a word about what actually went on inside the carriage, but we all know who did what and how. Sometimes leaving things like that up to the imagination is a good thing.
Here's what you may ask yourself:

What's important about these two having sex? (ie: why is it included in the story?) How do they feel about themselves and each other? How will they feel afterwards? Will it change the relationship? Is it a major plot turning point? If it's a mistake, what happens now? Do they learn from it? Does anything else happen as a result?
These are the issues.
I wouldn't worry about the actual writing of it until you've decided what the scene will do for the book, the characters, and the plot; and how it will effect things.
Then go ahead with the idea in mind, and write whatever comes to mind. You can edit it with your good conscience later, without your Priest looking over your shoulder.

I think it is a very interesting idea: If you think about it, you might as well write it down. It doesn't make you a pervert. And if I write a murder mystery, it certainly doesn't make me a killer.

Or does it? I murdered my character! Ahhhhh, take me away.


Mary Mon Mar 5 13:10:36 PST 2001

and Howard. :-)

Mary Mon Mar 5 13:02:42 PST 2001

I am in total agreement with Jerry.

Jerry Mon Mar 5 12:57:59 PST 2001

Debra, it is your book, your story and you should write it as you wish. Now if you think it needs a sex scene, what is wrong with that, so long as it is done tastefully. After all sex is one of the most beautiful things in the world when done by two people in love. It part of life. A very large part of life because without it there would be, could be no life. To share that with your readers in a tasteful way could never be wrong. I don't think even your priest would say there was anything wrong with it, if the scene calls for it. We get way to wrapped up in the old wives tale that sex is somehow dirty, filthy stuff done in back rooms by immoral people. Anyone who has been married, and shared their body with their mate can tell you that there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. There are areas where it may be questionable, such as rape, or kiddy porn, but I don't think you would even think of including those. Sex before marriage can also be a beautiful thing, if it takes place between two people who are in fact in love, and that love may be leading to marriage. I guess you have to limit it to your beliefs, but I wouldn't think you were a bad person should you write about it, if indeed it were done tastefully.


Mary Mon Mar 5 12:19:50 PST 2001

DEBRA: Believe it or not, I was going to say that HOWARD is probably a better person to consult about that. I mean, I barely turned down a job writing pornography. I knew it was something I didn't feel comfortable doing, but I wanted the money. In a nutshell, that is it.

Francine Rivers used to write some of the hottest sex scenes I have ever read (cutting edge even for romances) but now she only writes Christian based books. RHODA probably knows quite a bit about her.

I do have something to say on the subject though, but I am still fairly young and my perceptions might still be screwy. (Not that all young people's perceptions are screwy.) Just because you have something in your head, doesn't mean you would do it(or agree with it). What is the difference between keeping it in your head, and writing it down? You already have the scene in your head. Let me ask you this, DEBRA, would you ever write about a murder? That is something far worse in God's eyes than sex. At least I would hope so. (Speaking of which, read the Song of Songs...its beautiful) What would make it all right to (if not for you, then for someone else) write murder mysteries, but not sex scenes? Is this so much a religion question as it is social acceptance question? Or personal beliefs question? My decision not to write pornography was based on a combination of those. I had no problem writing things like that for my husband's eyes. I don't have a real problem with other people writing it. I didn't want to have to lie to my children when they ask me what I do for a living. I didn't want to write it for strangers. AND you never know what your future holds. What if my husband ran for the local school board and it came out that his wife writes for a porno mag. Geez.

I don't believe that writing a decent sex scene is something terrible for a Christian woman to do as long as it is necessary to the plot of your story. If it is gratuitous, that is another thing altogether. You would be amazed at how much impact the "impression" of sex can give. Don't feel the need to be too graphic. Tell just enough, like those movies that fade out behind a curtain after that first piece of clothing gets lost.

Writing murder mysteries doesn't make you a killer and writing sex scenes doesn't make you a harlot. Unless you BELIEVE it does. Then, of course, it does. At least that is how I feel about it at age 30. Ask me again in five years. Five years ago I probably would have taken the job writing porn.

Good luck and don't fret. Stand by your constitution and you will always be able to hold your head high. :-)

Jerry Mon Mar 5 11:00:26 PST 2001

Hallee, how could I not say HAPPY BIRTHDAY to you too, never caught the info I guess as it slipped by the page.

Ok, now you think Hannable was strange, you gotta hear this.

You know how we have all been talking about muses? Just minutes ago, not more then five anyhow, I sat down at my chair, and my ICQ was flashing. Ok, I figure another relative is having computer trouble, that's usually what it is. This one said Tweety - My niece used to go by that handle but changed long ago.

I opened up and there was a message, saying Hi, just got online for the first time, and your name was on this computer's ICQ list.

Ok, I got to thinking I know both my sister and her daughter sold their old machines, and both had ICQ on them, but I was sure that they formatted before they went out the door, in fact I think it was I who had that task.

So I answered one of those none meaningful Ok's, then I click on the INFO about Sender button, what do I find?

Her name is Teresa Muse - now how's that for strange.


howard Mon Mar 5 10:48:59 PST 2001

HEATHER -- Five pound of Cherrystones? What's Wayne gonna eat!?!? :-)

Fingers in doors give me the chills! Just after I graduated from HS we moved into town, and lived in a raised ranch on a quiet street. The driveway sloped down to the garage from the street, and was sheltered from view by a stone retaining wall on one side, and a hedge on the other.
One beastly hot July day my mother backed the car (a Corvair Van) out of the garage, put it in park, and went to close the garage door. She pulled on the rope to bring the door down (this was before motorized closers) and the door came down partway. She was too short to reach the handle, so she just grabbed the door frame at the top of the lower section and pulled. The door closed faster than she anticipated, and locked shut, with both of her thumbs pinched in between the sections. She couldn't stand, couldn't sit, and no one could see her because the van was behind her. She was there for several hours when our neighbor pulled into his driveway and spotted her. That was a big hurt! Took her a long time to get over that one!

DEBRA -- I can sympathize with your difficulty in writing things offensive to your beliefs. There are things I will not write because of that very reason. We're not alone though. Zenna Henderson (one of my favorite SF writers) was once told by her editor/publisher that if she wanted to sell books she'd have to "spice it up with some steamy sex." She told them to go fly a kite. Perhaps someone will send you "Holding Wonder," or "The Anything Box," now floating around the group. You'll see that she did quite well without it.
Stick to your guns! Remember, the muses are subject to the conscience. They know and understand that, even though they may test their authority now and again. They may come and go, but you have to live with your conscience! It's sometimes a lonely existence, but you know the rewards are more lasting.


Hallee Mon Mar 5 10:03:06 PST 2001

Hey everyone!

FINALLY I feel better. So much for the big birthday weekend. 29 came and went amidst a fever and pain. Thanks for all the well wishes. They meant a lot.

HOWARD: I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend.

ALLEIN: Happy Birthday! I cannot remember my nineteenth birthday. No wait - I do. I was in Ft. Drum, NY. My husband now was my boyfriend then and he was still down in Ft. Benning, GA. He didn't call all day, I was really pissed and sad...come to find out that he was in the midst of salmonilla (however that's spelled). He was nearly paralized on his barracks floor, but his window was open and he managed to throw a boot out of the window and hit his 1st SGT on the head with it. He stormed upstairs to find out what was up, and found Conan near death. How could I have forgotten that?

I haven't been able to write since I've been so sick. It's really irritating, to be home and not be able to sit at the computer. I plan on catching up on that today. I'm home again with Kaylee - she has a slight fever with a bad cold - just enough for her not to be able to go to the daycare - but not enough to slow her down any.

A tree fell on our roof last night. It happened around midnight, and hit the roof so hard that our bedroom window blew out. Thankfully, it was a rotted pine, and did little damage. A few holes in the roof already patched and some bent fascia. Just freaky. Shook the whole house.

Okay..a quick nap while Kaylee sleeps, then I'll write.

Happy Monday.

Debra Mon Mar 5 08:55:04 PST 2001


I thank you for saying you would share. I do understand about the idea of who is working for who. I find myself wanting to write things that are offinsive to my religious side and I hold back. That is always ugly. I need to work on my beliefs and what I want to write. I think I will ask my priest what he thinks about that. I have left out a lot of things that my muse has ordered me to put in. It's a constant battle. On the novel I am in the middle of writing, it needs a sex scene and I am having trouble writing it. I know what I want it to say I am just holding back. I know one thing for sure I will never bend on writing the Lord's name in vain. I just won't do it. I wish I could write everything else though.

Do you ever find yourself in that corner?


Mary Mon Mar 5 08:46:59 PST 2001

DEBRA: Share my muse? I would share in a New York minute, but I have no say in the matter. I am lucky to get her to show up to work for me and she is rarely nice about it and often acts quite put-out. She has a very poor work ethic, but I can't fire her. In all honesty, I think it is I who works for HER.

Rhoda Mon Mar 5 08:45:42 PST 2001


Austrailian television too? I feel the exact same way about American television. If I were to judge the people in my country strictly by what I see on television, I would get the heck out. I don't know how much of our stuff you get down there, but if you see some of it, you have to admit it doesn't put Americans in so good a light.

Is there something about the medium that elicits the attention of the intellectually and morally lazy? You think it can't get worse, yet it manages nonetheless.


Debra Mon Mar 5 08:43:26 PST 2001


How weird that you would write about there is something about Mary only seconds after I did the same thing.

We have a lot in common. It's not just the mom thing.


Mary Mon Mar 5 08:39:52 PST 2001

DINNER TONIGHT: Heather, can I come over to your place??? Please????? I haven't even begun to think about what I will prepare for the troops tonight, but I have money on it not being as good as what you are dishing up! Enjoy!

ON ZIPPERS: That incident is precisely what made the first twenty minutes of "Something About Mary" so hysterical. When I was younger I had a pair of sky blue hip huggers that zipped up the side. One time, I accidentally (of course, who would do this on purpose) caught a tiny little bit of hip-skin in the zipper and you would have thought someone had cut my arm off I carried on so. I can't even imagine zipping anything more tender. The worst part of the whole ordeal HAS TO BE knowing that the only way out is to back up and do it again!! Yikes. @#*@#

I have never slammed my finger in a door but the silverware drawer is a sneaky little bastard. My father-in-law dropped a whole magnum of champagne on his foot one time. Boy, that stream of profanity is probably still floating around somewhere.

Snowing here.....AGAIN! Blast it.

Debra Mon Mar 5 08:39:04 PST 2001


I can understand how some people might like to write that stuff sort of. I just have a hard time with human suffering, especially when it is inflicted by another human. I would like to write about a raving bitch. Not the same?

I would love to see the pictures. Love to. Send them on over. I do live in a small town. In fact it is the same town that produced the Farley Brothers. They are the same guys that wrote Dumb and Dumber and There is something about Mary. That's my town. They grew up here.

Heather Heather Heather Heather!

Ouch. Wow. I can't even imagine that one with the knuckles. You poor thing. I'm sorry I reminded you of that. I got off a lot easier. I promise. That fire thing. You silly goose. The one thing that happened and it's not even close, is I was camping and someone handed me a hot chocolate in a cup right off the camp fire. I didn't have it and they let go of it. It spilled right down my chest burning me instantly. I was wearing a t-shirt and the whole thing just attached to my skin. Being the genius I am, all I did was circle for a few and scream. I finally realized to take the shirt off.


I didn't realize that the reverse thing would lead to this. It's not funny anymore over here. We can't afford to fix it. I just hope it continues to go forward because when it doesn't that means I am shut down. I have a lot of responsibilities that involve the car.


I would love to hear more about your muse. I think you could write a whole novel about her. I saw your pictures. You're beatiful. You don't need to have Dan Devito in drag to be comfortable. Maybe it's just a great muse.

Do you share?


Heather Mon Mar 5 08:19:39 PST 2001

Jerry, can't say I've ever worried about zipping up, but owwwww, thinking about it with sympathy.
Ol' one eye got another clipping.

I don't think there's anything that can quite compare. I've never been caught in my bra clasp.


Heather Mon Mar 5 08:17:24 PST 2001

Ahhhh, Howard. I'll be thinkin' of you when I boil up my five pounds of cherrystone clams tonight, and whip up my wine, portabello mushroom and red sauce for them! Oh, delighted tastebuds are mine! Wonder what everybody else is having? Tee heee heee.


Heather Mon Mar 5 08:09:47 PST 2001


Well, it doesn't quite fit the stanzas of that old birthday song, but it works well enough!

All this excitement lately, and I forgot a few birthdays.
Or am I even late? I'm not scrolling back to find out.

Taylor, welcome!

Two Australians here at once! Oh, I think I'm faint!
(I love that country very dearly, and especially the talented writers and all the sexy actors and performers from there....*SIGH*) It's not just your accents. *SIGH!!!*
Hmmm. That reminds me of a particular limerick... (Ah, I'd better not)

Trudy - Take them up the coast and throw them across the border (and conveniently into a friends' basket).
At last resort I'm sure they are available SOMEWHERE in Canada. (I hope)

Well, off to finish rewriting a small part and then on with the writing! Muse, you had better sit still, this may take a while.
She gets antsy when she's on call.


Jerry Mon Mar 5 07:55:04 PST 2001

Allien - Happy Birthday - Birthdays are good for people, the more you have the longer you live.

I remember my 19th Birthday, I was in Advanced Individual Training at Fort Leonard Wood Mo. Larry Galbreth took me out to an enlisted mans club, and we got drunk on 3.2 beer, and watched the go-go girl dance on the table. You have to understand, this was an enlisted man's club so they didn't have a lot of money, the go-go dancer could well have been my mother, well not my mother, but someone my age's mother, and ugly, my god she was so ugly mud fences tried to look like her, but after a couple of pitchers of beer, she looked like Rachel Welch.

Talking about things getting caught, there is nothing that brings fear to a young boy faster then when he zips up too fast and it gets caught in the zipper, especially we who are among the circumcised. Oh for pain, I would liken it to post surgical pain, the kind that makes you scream through the morphine. Had a toe get caught under the bathroom door once too, boy did that hurt, the toenail turned blue, then when it was on the mend, I was in sixth grade music class, when old Mrs. Lyon made us dance, well the girl who I danced with was not all that great of a dancer, (who was in the sixth grade) and stepped on that very toe. Mrs. Lyon let me out of class to go to the school nurse after looking at the injured digit, the nurse sent me home. A few days later the toenail fell off, boy what a relief, when the nail was gone, so was the pressure on the injury.

Well there I go again rambling on, have a dental appointment today, just general cleaning. I feel so special, I am the only one of my mom's kids who still have my own teeth. Likewise, my wife hasn't had teeth now for over fifteen years. At times I think maybe it isn't worth it, but when they pass around the ear corn, and I see everyone at the table except myself, and my daughter, and niece getting steak knives to cut the kernels off, that is the time when I truly appreciate having my own teeth, likewise when the steak is served. Oh and when I get an apple, you know the kind the big red delicious apple. Too early in the AM to be thinking of such things.

Hi to all, hope you are having a great day.


Trudy Mon Mar 5 07:07:42 PST 2001

JACK, I think you're right that customs may not appreciate that. I was even thinking I'm planning on being in Boston in the next month or so...perhaps I could bring some back then. Then I thought customs may not appreciate it and I'm not one for sneaking things! Somewhere in Canada has to have them...first I have to get the cookbook though.

MARY, as soon as I typed what I had to say in I realized they were traits for both mnen and women...depending how you looked at it *grin*

TEEKAY, I understand the fear about the story not being published even after it has been accepted, but I'm sure it will all work out ok. Sounds like they pay half decent and that's a sign of professionalism. Tell me do you have a contract? You maintain copyright to your story right?

ALLEIN, happy birthday since I managed to pop into the notebook on the big day!

DEBRA, I'm thinking we're going to have to put these lack of reverse tales in stories one day! LOL

Well time is getting away from me, more later folks. Have a great day!


Mark Mon Mar 5 06:58:37 PST 2001

SMASHING FINGERS -- One of my earliest memories. Four years old, I stood in the hallway outside the bathroom leaning on the door jamb. Aunt Rita chased Aunt Annie. Annie ran into the bathroom, slammed the door and locked it. I watched the action for a minute before I puzzled over my fingers.
"Annie! You open this door!"
"No! You go away!"
"Annie! You open this door!"
Rita glanced at me, then looked again. My little fingers were all about one-knuckle deep into the door. I don't remember feeling any pain; rather, I was amused at how they all ended in a straight line.
"Annie! Open the door! Mark's fingers are caught in the door."
"They are not! You're just trying to get me."
"Annie, this is real. Mark's fingers are in the door."
After that my memory is fuzzy. Maybe it began to hurt. Maybe the attention on those squeezed fingers made me nervous. Don't know. My mother says that when she got upstairs to that bathroom the ends of my fingers were flat.
She got me to the doctor, somehow, we had no car. He put bandaids on me and before the day was out my fingers had restored to normal shape.
I've since been aware of car doors, they aren't flat like bathroom door, much worse to get caught in. The last part of me through a car door is always my outside foot. When the door closes on my shoe, I'm generally saved by a good shoe sole. I remember the pain of having the darn thing close on my ankle. That's another story.

taylor Mon Mar 5 06:25:08 PST 2001

Debra: as on why anyone would want to write movies like that...
its like a pacifist writing a reall violent script...
Its fun to break out of your everyday character, I do. and thats why I love creating and writing villians

taylor Mon Mar 5 06:05:07 PST 2001

Jerry: i actually dont drink alcohol, dont do drugs, and not even smoke anymore

IF the muse is helping me now, i like to know why on earth the spin on this book im writing gave me writers block for 3 months

Teekay: on sad movies: if you dont like to cry... dont watch Chips the War Dog
and about the Castle... I am Australian

also im glad i found this site, writers to talk to

i honestly dont know much about my muse... except then he and I hate stories with straightforward plots

Kenneth C. Williams Mon Mar 5 05:52:32 PST 2001

The Herald Daily Express
PRESS RELEASE:New Ebook hits right on the mark!


"Lessons For Living is the author's first, of a three-book 'campfire chat' series, aimed at introducing the Word of our Father to all age groups.
The unique ways in which this author presents our Father's 'Instructions' makes the 'journey' extremely enjoyable and entertaining, but satisfies the empty soul, as well.
With a plot based on Biblical Proverbs, this reviewer envisioned a message relating to Religion, or Church. I was pleasantly surprised by what I discovered within the pages of the book. One of the author's primary goals (which he succeeds at), is to open the reader's mind to SPIRITUALITY; that deep inner bond or connection between ourselves and our Father. A spiritual relationship which the author proves all are capable of developing and living. At the same time, and because of the author's own life; Lessons For Living will be an inspiration for those individuals and couples who believe that any type of positive change in their own lives, is well beyond their grasp.
Also of great significance is the fact that Lessons For Living tackles many of the very issues confronting our children on a daily basis. But this book offers them support and guidance so they can continue along our Father's chosen path, as they mature physically, emotionally, and spiritually.
This reviewer gives Lessons For Living a 'thumbs up,' and I expect to see more of this talented author's work.
Thanks Kenneth, your message was both needed and appreciated!"

Lessons For Living has been published by Century21 Bookstore LLC., and is available for purchase through their website:

Your support and feeback will be much appreciated, my brothers and sisters.
Thanks, and God Bless!
Kenneth C. Williams

Heather Mon Mar 5 02:22:34 PST 2001

Gariess! I'm going to go and read your short story very soon!
(Don't think I forgot now...)

Kru: I did forget to send you some chicken soup recipes. I'll get to that tomorrow, alright?


Heather Mon Mar 5 02:19:56 PST 2001

Oh, Mary! I'm sure karate 'freedom fighters' beats out topless barbequing! You had an audience! Well, I had a FEW audience members: my husband and a few birds and squirrels, and (hopefully NOT, though quite possibly) the neighbours. I'm really hoping that my neighbours didn't see me. It might explain the odd silence since last summer... (joke)

Edgar, welcome! Glad you jumped in.
Just beware of what you jumped in TO!
I enjoyed your shortie very much. I could definately see the one shaft of light over a notepad.

My muse is rather like a Tickle Me Elmo, only make that a Chucky doll. But not always.

Teekay! That's great news from the magazine! Break out the blue-nibbed cigars and pass that champagne!

Wait, those blue-nibbed cigars are for Sebastian's Daddy!

Hang on, Teek, I've got white nibbed, pink nibbed, and a few assorted rainbow nibbed cigars, definately not Cuban.
The humidor hasn't seen cuban for a while. Might try to find one for the day my novel is finished. But then we'd all be smoking virtual ones then, wouldn't we?

I would!

Debra, I've smashed my middle finger in a truck door once, when I was around 8. I slammed that door really hard, on the first knuckle. The bad news? The door was locked. My parents had said, "If you want to come in just make sure you lock the door." They couldn't hear me yelling to them from outside, so I had to rip my finger out of the door, and my nail came off inside my mitten. OUCH. My mom didn't have any bandaids left in her purse, but she did have (get this) medical tape and cotton balls. When we got home we found that the cotton ball had gotten completely stuck to the bloody fleshy part, where my nail had been, so it was pain all over again getting the cotton off...

Not my favourite week.

Same goes for the week I grabbed this floating piece of something-or-other that flew up from the outer edge of this huge bonfire. It looked really neat and it didn't look hot, either. "Wow!" I thought. "It's white on the edges and silver in the middle!" Hey, I was six, and nobody thought I'd try to catch the floater. My parents had to cut my food for me for two weeks while the blisters healed.
(I couldn't push on the knife)

Don't get me wrong. My parents weren't neglectful or bad at warning me from doing harmful things. I just lived in an 'imaginary universe', and didn't use my ears a whole lot.



Mary yes......again Sun Mar 4 21:48:45 PST 2001

That car story reminded me of an embarassing moment I had actually IN karate class one night. We were practicing roundhouse kicks. Off-chance I landed a pretty square one right into my partner's chest and the impact somehow unclasped my front-hook bra. Nothing was revealed, but being fance free like that was quite distracting and sensai had to halt the exercise for me to readjust my accouterments.

Finally I had a story to add to the breast archive! I don't think I will ever be able to beat topless barbecuing though. ;-)

Teekay (again) Sun Mar 4 21:42:38 PST 2001

MARY: While I was watching Fargo I was remembering what you said about them being laid back, but nope, nope that was more like one step away from comatose. :-)
In a nice way - of course.

Teekay Sun Mar 4 21:37:01 PST 2001

EDGAR: You rat. I thought you were being open hearted and vunerable. There I was trying to offer an understanding ear, but nooooooooooooooooooooo, it was all just pure unadulterated fiction.
I feel so used.

DEBRA: Nope, have tried to imagine how far I'd get driving around in a car that didn't reverse and I just would not do it. I'd hyperventilate the whole time, just in case I had to reverse.
Do you live in a really small town?
I'll send you a photo of me by email okay?

ALL: Well the solved problem is solved no more. Get this. To do an electronic transfer of funds would cost $25:00!!!!
That means to press a few buttons, to put money in an overseas account would cost $25:00. My head is spinning. How do they justify these things???
If on the off chance I do win first prize it should just about cover my costs.

Well, I really have to make a start on my latest competition entry. Time is ticking away and it makes me nervous just to think of it.
Me and pressure definitely do not work well together.

Mary Sun Mar 4 21:24:07 PST 2001

JERRY: I just knew someone was going to call me on that waking up in the middle of the night thing. Hehe. Cute.

DEBRA: It is not nice to call people names. Big winks and a hearty chuckle ;-) Speaking of cars that do strange things, I had this blue land yaucht once that would always backfire three times whenever you turned it off. I had more fun with that car...but I could never sneak up on anybody. I drove myself and 7 of my karate classmates to class in it one night and when it backfired in the parking lot two people walking down the sidewalk dove for cover. I never had to drive to karate again...the guys always picked me up. I was the only girl in the class. Hmphh. You would think a bunch of twenty year old men would think it was cool for a girl to drive a car like that.

ON MUSES: I think mine has forsaken me. My muse is definitely female, but she looks like Danny DeVito in drag because I don't think I could handle having a muse better looking than I am. Bad enough she is more creative and expressive, I'll be damned if she looks better too!

Watched, "The Cell" tonight. That and "Me, Myself and Irene". "Cell" was just what I thought it was, "Irene" was a disappointment but did get a few chuckles.
"Something About Mary" (the first twenty minutes) was the hardest I have laughed at a movie in ages.

TEEKAY: Glad you finally watched "Fargo", but I really didn't think the people were portrayed as being of a lesser intelligence. They just seemed really layed back and untaxed to me. There were a couple of stooges, but there are in any movie. Maybe it has been too long since I watched it. Thank you for saying you liked my shortie...I was afraid it must have really sucked since nobody said anything. (But then Debra did too, so I don't feel too poorly about it. :-))

Well, I had promised myself that I was just going to check one last time before I went to bed and not post anything until the morning, but there I go again.


Allein Sun Mar 4 20:09:04 PST 2001

Teekay - Only part of my cake was chocolate. I got an ice cream cake from Dairy Queen and we got it on Friday. Now it's all gone. :)


Edgar Sun Mar 4 19:54:06 PST 2001

Hello, all. I've been lurking here for some time and decided to jump in. Yes, my piece yesterday was a jump on shorty night, but the last few weeks I've seen shorties posted early and late. Thought I'd go right ahead when the bell rang, so to speak. I thought it was rather neatly crafted, what with the cone of light coming down from the ceiling and all, the main character well-lit in the foreground and everyone else seen only in shadow. "Nice touch," thought I, stretching the loneliness between emotional and physical.

I don't know the answer to your question, Teekay, about not being able to reach out or not allowing others to reach in. It's just a piece of fiction, but I suppose knowing that sort of motivation will be important in longer stories. I think there're many people here who'd know that better than I.

Debra Sun Mar 4 19:44:03 PST 2001


That's so funny about the trip to Irlend. I have learned one thing we really need reverse. I have to always be thinking even if I find a place to park where I can pull through and drive straight out when I leave, I have to make sure I can cut it enough to get in the first time. There are no second chances.

I had to rely on the kindness of a stranger today at the food store. My two kids were trying to push me and they couldn't. They couldn't steer! One guy in his car was watching and came over and said I looked like I need some help. He told me he had been there too. Funny. He did amuse himself for a few minutes first watching.

It's nice to see how people are friendly sometimes. I'm sure it will get old fast.

Not the friendly part. Just the needing the help part. Plus you never know who is not friendly. I spend a lot of time in the car alone with just the kids. I pick them up or drop them off somewhere. My husband is at work lots. He can't always be there like today at the food store. He was still at my brothers helping him with his new house. No body wants me hanging around with four kids. Especially when they just moved in. Don't get me wrong they are well behaved there is just nothing for them to do. But now I'm off on a tanget. Darn muse.


Debra Sun Mar 4 19:29:04 PST 2001


You feel weird saying it? Imagine how I feel realizing that's what it might be. I think you should wait until you are older to talk about that subject on the internet. We are all nice but your mother might not understand. I just don't want to see your disappear for any reason. I really like you. You're very talented.

Jack I like your muse.

I'm not ready to talk about mine. I think I need to get it some medication. It runs in different directions on a regular basis. They are all good ones but just too many. It's my fault for waiting until I was older to start writing. I had most of these stories with me for years. I think it is horse from yelling them at me.

Do you remember the show "That Girl?" Well I knew back then I wanted to be a writer, but Ann's father didn't want her to date Donald Hollinger because he would always be broke because he was a writer. That stayed with me for all those years until I just had to cough up my first word. I've been writing ever since.

Darn sit coms.


Debra Sun Mar 4 19:19:57 PST 2001


I always love hearing from you. Don't worry about the finger shutting thing too much. It happens so fast that you dont' have time to worry about the pain. All you can think about is getting your finger out of there. Worrying
about the pain comes later. I just felt like an idiot in front of the kids. They think I'm smart. Well they used to.

Thanks for looking at the picutures. In case I missed yours or should I say did you ever post any cause if you did I missed them and I would like another chance.
I have to thank Mary for doing the whole thing for me. Of course don't forget cybermachanic either.

Also, Teekay, I do feel a little scared every time I get into it now. The thing is it costs over a thousand to get it fixed. My son is one year late for getting his braces and all of us live in a two bedroom house. We need to save our money to move. I don't see that happening so we might just have to get his braces. I told my husband that I wanted to just get one from a used auto part dealer because I thought it might be cheaper. I know it will be, because then him and his friend can put in themselves. He doesn't know how to fix it though. He says no because that make of Dodge minivan had a problem with the transmissions so we might just be back where we started. I think it might be worth the risk.


It's been a long time so can I tell you how funny it is to think of your father getting into that car. I've been thinking about it for some reason. It's hugely funny.

Speaking of Hannibal, I didn't see Silence of the Lambs and never will. I didn't see Hannibal and never will either. So problem solved here. I don't understand how a person even writes that stuff. And what does that muse look like?

Mary Lou:

I did hear from that agent, apparently he has a women working in his office that reads everything before he does. If she thinks he won't like it she just sends it back. She told me she loved it so much that she wanted to give it to her granddaughter right now. She has been after him to read it and I think I might hear from him this week.
When I talk to him he reminds me of Columbo. Do you remember him? He was that dectective who wore a raincoat?

That's what he sounds like. I hope I hope, he takes me on. I need money. Fast! I'm sandwiched in a tiny house with no money and my car won't go in reverse. What's gonna happen next. Maybe he can get me a real good advance. Can you imagine? I'd be a hero to my family and to all the girls who might be helped by my Sweetie abuse book. That's not the title.

Wish me luck!


Jerry Sun Mar 4 19:07:16 PST 2001

Ah yes, I remember it well, it was early June, and the West Texas night was cool, and oh so very dry. I just came back from a two week field problem, way out in the desert, I was filthy, what with no shower for over 14 day, hungry having survived on nothing but old Army C-rations, thirsty for a cold brew, and being only 22 years, extremely horny.

I parked my old Plymouth Fury III, the olive drab one that I bought just before the transfer down in the back yard of our brick army quarters at 107 Merit Road, killing the lights before their beam cut across our bedroom window. Quietly, on tip toes, I entered the house, all was quiet, so peaceful. I eased my way into the bathroom and drew a very hot bath, so hot that the room was filled with steam, the mirror covered, even the tank on the toilet was dripping wet. I submerged my body and just lay there for about ten minutes, in fact I nearly fell asleep. Drying myself off, I headed for bed room, where my lovely wife waited so patiently.

When I got there, she looked so peaceful, sleeping so soundly, that I just could not wake her. No, I just crawled between the cool sheets, and closed my eyes, it was not more then five minutes before I was sleeping.

About an hour later it happened, she woke me in that special way wives have of waking their husbands, when they want something.

See, women do wake men in the middle of the night.


Jack Beslanwitch Sun Mar 4 19:06:38 PST 2001

I can tell where my muse is sort of like the invisible man or woman who still casts a shadow. When I am working on a particular story, she (I think of her as she) will peak up over the shoulder of this character or that and point urgently, stamp her feet petulantly if I ignore her and worst comes to worst takes over my fingers and begins typing aga ... hello this is Jack's muse, just ignore him and look at me. Looking? Yes? OK, aren't I pretty, look how I can shape that character to really do what the character is supposed to. OK. OK. I will let Jack get back into the conversation....

Hmmmmm. What just happened?

Jerry Sun Mar 4 17:37:03 PST 2001

Well to tell the truth, maybe the movie had a little something going for it, I had one of the worst nightmares in my life last night. Sure wish I could remember it so I could write the story, but alas; it is not to be. The wife woke me up and said I was screaming. First time in nearly 32 years that she ever head that, scared the living hell out of her. She asked me what I was the matter, and all I said was "Damn nightmare!" None-the-less I stand by my last nights review.

A Muse's sex, defiantly female, mine resembles tinker bell from the Disney Movie Peter Pan. She does from time to time play tricks on me, encouraging me to begin a story, then leaving in a huff when it don't go the direction she insist I go. Makes for poor stories though, I must learn to take direction.

(Political coments with held to keep peace in the notebook)


Teekay Sun Mar 4 17:02:09 PST 2001

Hi All,
It's a blistery, blustery day in the hundred acre woods today. I can see autumn glimpsing at me from around the corner.
Come come I tell her, but she is cautious.
All in good time, all in good time.

Okay, shoot me now.
NO NO JERRY, only kidding.
That cracked me up HEATHER, so much so that I decided to plagiarise it along with RACHELS evil laugh. Thanks guys. :-)

I've gone and missed 2 whole days, so I'm doing a skimmy post. If I miss anything important let me know okay? Okay! Thanks.

ALLEIN: HAPPY BIRTHDAY GIRLY. HAVE A FANTASTIC DAY. And now I'm singing the birthday song and doing a little birthday dance. Oh, look, and now I'm eating all the chocolate birthday cake.
*BURP* Whoops. Sorry, that was delicious.

HOWARD: You cheeky wabbit. I checked out the earthquake site. When i pressed the 'press here for earthquake' sign, I thought wha.... is this a joke?
Shoulda known.

DEBRA: HAHAHAHAHAHHA man, you just cracked me up. Who says 3rd time lucky???
Ahh thankyou CYBER MECHANIC. Gorgeous family. Thanks DEBRA for sharing that. Unlike our lovable yet idiosyncratic GARIESS, I like to be able to put names and faces together.

RICHARD: You are not an olive for olives are not poisonous. Or so I have been told. But just in case, DON'T go eat one to see okay?

HOWARD: I'm really sorry to hear of the loss of your friend. warm((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))) to you.

JERRY: I watched 'Fargo' and you're right. The people really did look like they were missing something vital from up top.
Horrible to think it is a true story.
A very memorable film & I'm so happy the pregnant lady was alright at the end. I really started getting nervous there for a while.
Weren't her and her hubby a lovely comfy couple? I thought so.

There's this Australian film called 'the castle' which makes Australians look really idiotic (It's an Australian made film though, so we can't get too hung up about that.) It's not a true story, but it may very well be.
I thought it was hilarious in an incredibly stupid way.
Pats to REN. Maybe he just had a bigger one than normal. It may not mean he's getting worse.

TAYLOR: I believe some people turn to drugs and alcohol to solve this problem, but you would be stupid to do this. In fact, you would only be making an extra problem for yourself.
I think the only thing you can do is write yourself out. Writing isn't a 9 - 5 job. When the muse says write, then write you must. She will not be denied. If you try it you will suffer moodiness and sleepless nights. :-)
Good luck -you're not alone.

HEATHER: I do love your posts. :-)

HALLEE: My daughter used to get UTI's aaaalllll the time & we were forever at the doctor for anti-biotics. Anyhoo, one day some one said to give her this little sachet of ? which you can buy over the counter and ever since then she's never had another, and I'm talking years here. If you're interested I'll find out what the stuff is. Let me know.

My sons birth didn't go according to plan either. Sounds like we may have had very similar experiences.

DEBRA: What do you mean your car won't go in reverse? Is it a joke - like you hate reversing or something?
I just read a later post & I see you're not joking. How awful for you. I don't think I'd be game enough to drive anywhere. I'm oart chicken you know.

BEN: Glad to be of assistance, but geez, it wasn't that obvious. Only a very sharp mind like mine or Nancy Drew's would have picked that out. If you don't know who Nancy Drew is , then your life is sadly lacking. :-)

HAPPY BIRTHDAY BEN. Now I'm singing the birthday song again, and now I'm opening up the champagne. Now, oh dear, now, I've juk all the champeng en itsh all gone an *hic* it wash very nishe.

DEBRA: I was only thinking the other day that if I jammed my finger in the car door, I'd probably die. Used to do it all the time as a kid, but I don't think I'd be able to live through it these days.

TRUDY: Thanks. It's one of those lovely glossy monthly magazines. They were saying about putting it in the October issue. I imagine for halloween. My worry is that they'll get a better story between now and then and use that instead.
The magazine is called 'For Me.'
They said they would contact me closer to the time, which is forever away. Or so it seems. :-)

MARY: Speaking from experience all muses are NOT female. Mine is this little short fat bald guy, with a beer belly and a really vicious wand. :-D

TAYLOR: I saw the beach. Very sad. I don't like movies that make me cry. I have an aversion to sadness.
What's the point, you go away from them feeling heavy and depressed and sad and miserable and, oh GAD! WHERE'S THE PLONK????

LITTER: See, I've been duped! My damned muse says he got the job because he fought it on grounds of discrimination - obviously he won his case. I don't know. Sometimes there's a lot to be said for discrimination.

EDGAR: I've thought about this myself & I guess that it's up to you to touch people through your writing.
What do you see as the problem? That you don't know how to touch?
Or that you don't allow people to touch you? :-)
There is a huge difference between being alone and being lonely.
You're didn't just write this to get in early for the shorty night are you?

Better go before JACK has to archive again.

BTW: The magazine got back to me again & now the problem is all fixed. They were so nice about it all. And patient too.

Have a great day everyone. :-)

Mary Sun Mar 4 15:20:32 PST 2001

TRUDY: I have to laugh because I thought that Gary's descriptions of muses were dead on female traits, except that waking you up in the middle of the night thing...that is inherently male.

HEATHER: Good point about the eunich muses. However, call it predisposition, I still feel like they are all female.

Jack Beslanwitch Sun Mar 4 14:43:47 PST 2001

Trudy: I would offer to ship them to you from here, but suspect since they are organic products I might run afowl (sp) afoul of customs. Good luck and let me know how it goes. I believe, there are some suggestion on finding ingredients in the book.

Oh, and all: one other thing that might help explain my take on reviews ala Hannibal. When I go into a movie I completely push aside all expectations from the hype. I actually attempt my level best to disregard all. If I expect less, I usually get more. The exception to this, is comparing the book with the movie where there is one. This had a serendipitous result in the case of The Abyss (which I enjoyed greatly) in that I was disappointed a bit with comparing it with the book by Orson Scott Card. Only thing is that Orson was working off the original script and augmented with pieces that were added by Campbell into the movie or, I should say, the movie that came out as the Director's Cut (a better movie by far in my expectation). All that said, I do have a number of movies that I am looking forward to through next December that might give a clue of my personal tastes.

I am sure there will be some others that pop out of the woodwork, but all of the above hold promise. I was a little iffy on Planet of the Apes until I found that Burton would be doing this one. I have not seen a movie of his that I did not like. Oh, and you can see trailers for all of the above at at the Quicktime Movie Trailers Page Take care.

Heather Sun Mar 4 14:42:20 PST 2001

Hi Trudy! Oh, there's no telling what buttons I hit at that moment. I wasn't actually looking!

Heather Sun Mar 4 14:41:02 PST 2001

The nine 'original' muses are definately female - but that doesn't mean that modern muses can't be either, or even sans sexual orientation. eunichs, perhaps?
Little fairies that flit about the ear and bite on occasion.

Maybe even the little devil on one shoulder, an angel on the other?

I don't know what sex my muse is, just that he/she comes without ringing a bell.


Trudy Sun Mar 4 12:48:07 PST 2001

MARK, thanks I will definitely check out that site! Sounds like a good one. I'm with you on gravitating towards sites where people gather. As a freelance writer working from home this is a big social activity for me. Almost as good as getting together with friends with a real cup of coffee or chilled brew!

CASSANDRA, you wrote, "Besides he's the only guy I've ever met that appreciates everything about me (even the annoying stuff), and treats me with love and respect." Sounds like a keeper to me. When I met the guy who is now my hubby of seven years (where does the time go) he was the one person who accepted everything about me...and he still does. That, and trust, are the tewo most important things in a relationship. Not that they are the answers to RICHARD'S riddle! I don't think *grin*

JERRY, I enjoyed Hannibal the book...think I'll wait for the movie to come out on video...most reviews I've heard from friends are the same as yours. OH no just read JACK's I'm torn. I loved the ending of the book too!

JACK that cookbook does sound delightful...and here in little old New brunswick I may have trouble finding dried wood ear mushrooms or Szechuan pepper corns, but I have a conference trip planned in Montreal so will check there. Hmmm now I'm hungry!

MARY, after reading Gariess' description of a muse I'm convinced their male...don't these sound like male traits?
takes you away from what you're doing; wakes you up in the middle of the night; deserts you when need him most; comes when he wants to come, and not when you want him; let's you know that it's really at his bidding and has some really mischievous ways to let you know? Sounds all male to me *grin* Sorry guys! LOL I am just teasing. I'm sure from the male side of the fence these traits all sound female? Darn it with LITTER's support for the female muse argument.

Belated happy Birthday HALLEE and an early Happy Birthday tomorrow Allein! Feel better HALLEE.

Later all!

Trudy, who really didn't mean to write this long...

Now how do I open my news reader?

Richard Sun Mar 4 12:39:15 PST 2001

When prepared and nurtured my fruit are sweet and fulfilling
But plucked straight from the branch they are bitter and sour
People sit around me and extoll my virtues
Though they may taste the poison my raw juices offer
For those who stand outside or prepare my fruit are made to seem foolish

What am I?

Ditto on the three-letter word Debra. Now, before everyone starts rolling the eyes and thinking its typical someone of my age would be thinking about this... well, I suppose you'd be right. Stupid hormones.

Regardless, we're still being given 'sex education' at school, but honestly its useless. Everything they say makes perfect sense if you have common sense and bit of wisdom, but might as well be bouncing off a brick wall when it comes to most people my age. Anyway, I just felt like writing that riddle - wonderful when its part of real, loving relationship (and marriage if you're a Christain) but often hurtful and empty otherwise.

Oh, I wish I had more time to write... *beats himself over the head in frustration*

Eddie French Sun Mar 4 12:36:29 PST 2001

Well done Rachel.
It looks like I've lost a couple of posts around here somewhere. Must have been when somwbody took a pair of scissors to the notebook a few days ago. I can't even remember what I was talking about now!
Never mind.
Just had an article published at laughsend. URL above. It's in the Science and Technology section. 'Rogue Bot'
You can have a look if you wish.

Cassandra Sun Mar 4 12:01:56 PST 2001

Well, I had some good years of lonliness before I found my Jon-bear. So I don't really have a problem writing with it, my problem would be getting on the net on Thursday in order to post anything. Because of our network turtling it's way along over here, I can barely even check email during the week. :)

Hence the reason I'm not on here too much....

Allein: If I don't see you tomorrow, happy 19th! It was a milestone for me, as I'm sure it will be for you. It's a jump into young adulthood, and even though you've got 2 years to reach 21, you'll learn a whole lot about what makes people work, and what makes a mature sensible person. Just remember to enjoy the fact that you can still be childish and get away with it for these next 2 years (hell, my mom and grandma are still getting away with it...).

Love ya all, but gotta move it!



Rhoda Sun Mar 4 11:05:55 PST 2001


Hugs to you and Sebastion. I am so glad you two came through it so well. Just take it easy and get lots of rest.


Allein Sun Mar 4 10:57:23 PST 2001

Hallee - Happy Belated Birthday!!

Viv - Arigato! Anata no Tanjobi wa itsu desu ka? Mmmm...miso. *drool* Miso soup is good. :)

Loneliness, that's right up my alley.


Hallee Sun Mar 4 10:05:43 PST 2001

GARIESS: I'll, uh, see what I can do. Of course, he's in NYC right now while the northeast is bracing for a massive snow storm - HAHAHA.

ALLEIN: That would be Sebastian, then me, Ben, then you. (Mine was Friday.)

RACHEL: Congratulations - nice to see that the prayers made it your way. Kiss the sweetheart for me.

Okay - back to bed. Man, I'm so sick.


Debra Sun Mar 4 07:49:03 PST 2001


Your right as soon as the pain goes away, the stupidity comes back. Of course I'm talking about myself.

The good news is it isn't as much of a mess this morning as I thought it might be.


Viv Sun Mar 4 07:09:37 PST 2001

Well, I know one person who will have problems writing about lonliness. That's you Cassandra. Enjoy! There's nothing like those first 8 months. Wish you many more!

Allein: Anata no tanjobi mo! Omedito Gozaimasu!

Mark: Try roasting some of your soybeans and salting them. They are a little like popcorn. If you are into complex cooking I'll send you a recipe for homemade miso soup. I also could give you a receipe for homemade tofu. The last two are sort of complex. I cook a lot, but I don't do it on purpose! I have to do breakfast, a big lunch at noon for my husband and anyone else who comes home with him, and dinner. I don't get a big bang out of cooking but I can get the job done really fast. My motto is speed cooking! I chop everything on Mon. Wed. and Friday. The miso gets made in the fall and lasts until late summer, (I make about 10-15 pounds of it)

If you don't know what miso is, it's a fermented soybean paste. You can drop it into boiling water and have that instant Japanese broth with the white stuff floating in it near the bottom. I usually dump in a little onion and whatever else is sitting in the refrigerator. We have that for breakfast and lunch every day. It's pretty high in salt, so if you retain water or are prone to heart problems, skip it. It's fast and you can make salad dressing, rahmen, soup, coat fish, boil vegetables in it or about anything else with it (you could also probably use it to paste two strips of paper together) and I have a crazy friend who speads it on bread, tops it with cucumbers and eats it like a sandwich filling. It's one of those mainstay things you keep in the house, like a bottle or two of wine. (Nope, I don't drink the stuff all that often but it's great in spagetti sauce or salad dressing, or when you are cooking meat or when dinner didn't get made...put out wine and cheese and people, she's going all out!)

Anyway, you got soybeans, you got some interesting stuff you can make. They are also good to throw around in February while you chant "Oni wa soto! Fuku wa uchi!" (Devils of winter get out of my house!!!!) Since you missed February, you may as well do that in March with a few friends after first drinking those couple bottles of the wine you keep in the kitchen for practical reasons! Let me know if you want to try the recipes. I may have a little trouble with translation on that miso recipe but I'll bet Allein and Jack can help us with that one ingredient that no one translates for me. I ask them what it is in English, they shrug and say, "It is what it is!"

That's sort of like Quark in Germany. Anyone familiar with Quark out there? No, it's not a duck call! riddle...what's quark? (No Teekay, It's not sex with an ardvark!)

As for chicken soup, dump in a capful of rice vinegar and two capfulls of soysauce, add about a half capfull of sake or plain white wine.

Also a nice thing to do is to take chicken soup from the can (Swanson's brand is ok) and pour it into custard cups. Add an egg or two to each cup (depends on how much soup is in the cup how many eggs you add), add a sprig off the top of the celery, a couple chunks of onion, a small shrimp, a little hunk of fish left over from last nights dinner to each cup. Make them look pretty and interesting. Sometimes we add a ginko nut when the trees are dropping those stinky little berries all over the place, stir up each cup,season if you want with a few drops of soy sauce and sake. Cover each cup with clear plastic wrap and steam all the cups in a big pot. They make little custard soups. You serve it warm in the winter and cold in the summer. We eat it often with sushi. It's called chawan mushi. If anyone gets excited about any of these recipes and actually wants to try them, I'll write these recipes more carefully. Viv

PS Wish me luck. I'm going to try to write again tomorrow. I am really fighting the 'I can't write' demons.

Edgar Sun Mar 4 07:06:50 PST 2001

{sigh} I don't often admit to the way I feel. Far from human emotional contact, I may as well be in an empty room.

I remember writing poetry under the ceiling light in a hometown bar. When the night bartender came on, she put out the ceiling lights and I lost the light on my writing tablet. I asked her to put that light back on. Some conversation. Yes, I was really a writer. Yes this was a real writer's notepad. She turned the light on. I sat in a cone of light and realized several things. The population of that bar faded into the dim background as only my table and tools were lit.

I was isolated by that light. Solitary, secluded, insular, but still inside a populated room. And I liked it. I could maintain an intellectual distance from the rabble of a small-town bar, yet remain (on my terms) connected.

Driven by an ego frailer than I could admit, my emotional seclusion grew. At first my vanity allowed me to believe that this was under my intellectual control. I would keep real contact with my peers and speak reservedly with the rest. I never sought out-of-the-way hangouts, why should I? I could maintain my isolation in crowded rooms. One-by-one people dropped off my list of peers.

I fear it's too late. Forlorn, godforsaken, lonesome. I no longer know how to really touch.

Sun Mar 4 07:06:33 PST 2001

Bugger! - LAST

Sun Mar 4 07:06:09 PST 2001

OOPS! That las bit should have read "taken from several sources"


Litter Sun Mar 4 07:02:37 PST 2001

Hi all!

RACHEL -- many many congrats, and for Sebastian --

A miracle of new life
Or blessing from above
Sebastian we welcome you
Sweet child of love

May you know love
In all its guises
May you know joy
And all it comprises
May your life be filled
With pleasant surprises
As you grow strong
In health and in peace

The miracle of new life
Or blessing from above
Sebastian we welcome you
Sweet child of love

It's a sort of semi-Celticish blessing...

MARY (and the Muses) -- Mary, you are right. Gariess, hang your head in shame you sexist beast...

The Muses are the Greek goddesses who preside over the arts and sciences and inspire those who excel at these pursuits. Daughters of Zeus, king of the gods, and Mnemosyne, they were born at Pieria at the foot of Mount Olympus.

Their name (akin to the Latin mens and English mind) denotes 'memory' or 'a reminder', since in the earliet times poets, having no books to read from, relied on their memories. The Romans identified the Muses with certain obscure Italian water-goddesses, the Camenae.

The original number of muses and their names varies in earlier times as their evolution blossomed in Greek mythology. At first, three muses were worshipped on Mount Helicon in Boeotia. Another three were worshipped at Delphi. Several other versions were worshipped until the Greeks finally established the nine muses in mythology. They were: Calliope, Clio, Erato, Euterpe, Melpomene, Polyhymnia, Terpsichore, Thalia, and Urania. (and every one a female!!!)

(taken from seval sources.)

Back later,


taylor Sun Mar 4 06:46:25 PST 2001

thats why id rather not hear about all the hype of movies.

I actually saw the movie the 'beach' without knowing anything about it.
i enjoyed it, but i didnt have any expectations of it,
but I reckon movies could be better written...

thanks for the info on the 'muse' i kept hearing about the muse muse muse, but nothing was actually said

Mary Sun Mar 4 06:45:46 PST 2001

MORE ON HANNIBAL: Yes, Jack, my husband also mentioned that he wished they would have showcased the psychological stuff more than they did.

Mary Sun Mar 4 06:39:54 PST 2001

Good Morrow Everyone!

GS: I was under the impression that all Muses were female.

My husband went to see Hannibal the weekend it opened and was disappointed in general. (But does think that J. Moore did a good job as Clarisse and that the acting, in general, was well done.) He said they stuck to the book until the ending, but that the ending they went with worked fairly well. He didn't expect to like it as much as "Silence" (that movie is a classic), but he did expect more than he got considering all the hype. He gave it one regretful thumb down.

Link to pets above.

Be well. Nanoo nanoo.

Gariess Sun Mar 4 03:10:37 PST 2001


Any chance you could keep your brother away from Cape Cod?


Gariess Sun Mar 4 02:55:01 PST 2001


BIG ELEPHANT HUGS FOR YOU AND SEBASTIAN. So glad it ended well. Don't do this again, okay?


Your muse is the little guy who lives in your head and makes you write. He gives you ideas when you're sitting around in company and takes you away from what you're doing. He wakes you up in the middle of the night because he has a chapter for you to finish. He also deserts you when need him most. Like when you just have to finish something, or start something and he's nowhere to be found. Some people call this Writer's Block.

He comes when he wants to come, and not when you want him. As soon as you think it's you who are doing all this writing, he let's you know that it's really at his bidding that you write. And he has some really mischievous ways to let you know. You didn't think you were doing all this shit on your own, did you?


New shorty in the WB. It's called, Strange Bedfellows. Just over 5000 wds, and I forgot to spellcheck it too. Too late.

No Mercy (except for Rachel)

taylor Sun Mar 4 01:35:38 PST 2001

i may sound like an idiot asking this question...
but what is actually a 'muse'

and i would like to share the book that made me want to write...
ET, read it as a child, and that was that...

i find that reading now has become more like a research tool other than just to read

Jack Beslanwitch Sun Mar 4 01:15:03 PST 2001

Trudy: Do check out Barbara Tropp's book. The real heart and soul of how the recipes turn out so effectively is that you go with the real ingredients. First stage is take the time out to create your own Hot Orange Chili Oil, Seranno Lemongrass Vinegar, Ten Spice Powder, Double Chicken Stock (this in itself is not to missed - it comes out darker than beef stock in color and the most intensely chicken chicken stock I have ever encountered), curry powder from its scratch constituents and all the rest. It takes about an afternoon to do, but then your larders are set to do some absolutely extraordinary Chinese cooking for the next three months to six months. As I mentioned, you may have a bit of a problem get your hands on dried wood ear mushrooms or Szechuan pepper corns (these are non capsicum, but, if memory serves, closer to the juniper family - but I could be wrong on that latter). Also in the cookbook is an absolutely wonderful recipe for ginger ice cream. Very very Chinese American, but makes a great capper for some great meals. Although, two scoops are about all you will want. They are so inensely gingery that they become hot. Take care.

Jack Beslanwitch Sun Mar 4 01:05:17 PST 2001

Jerry: I have to disagree. I was totally enraptured by the sequal of Hannibal, particularly given that I had just gottent through reading Red Dragon, Silence of the Lamb and Hannibal. I, actually, would have preferred the ending in the book, but can well understand why they went with the ending they did. It was still close to the characterization. Other than that and the way that Verger met his maker (the movie version was better, although I would have liked them to reprise the role of his sister).

The difference in our perspectives may be because you were going on the basis of the movie. I was going on the basis of the books. All in all, Hannibal was largely faithful Hannibal the Book and in that I am appreciative. I would have liked to see a bit more about the psychological perspective that was explored so effectively in the book and explained how the book ending made sense, but then you would have had to have the book's ending, one that many critics panned the book for. Myself, I loved it. I was sitting in the corner saying Go Clarisse and Hannibal, with great relish. The ending in the movie was equally satisfying.

Allein Sat Mar 3 23:03:40 PST 2001

Ben - Everyone's having a birthday this week - Sebastian, then you and me on Monday. HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!

taylor Sat Mar 3 22:21:55 PST 2001

As for sequals to movies, they lose their originality, so no wander Hannibal isnt as good as silence of the lambs...

and for the current screenwriters, they either get paid too much for not doing enough work, or theyve forgotten what its like to be a viewer

RACHEL: congrats to you, hope everything goes well

taylor Sat Mar 3 22:07:14 PST 2001

I do keep a dream journal, fortunately or unfortunately I get alot of ideas from dreams...
At the moment i have idea for three novels and three stories from dreams
and still working on my 1st novel

Jerry Sat Mar 3 21:53:56 PST 2001

Debra - the old finger in the door trick, I have done that once or twice myself, but not for many years now. Seems those dang things hurt like hell for about a month before you can forget what you did, and do it again.

Went and saw Hannibal tonight, I thought it a horrible waste of my six dollars and fifty cents. Looks like instead of a writer they just had a few fellows from special effects sit down and think of gross things, then tried to patch them together and make a movie. The plot sucked, acting was poor and story almost non-existent. Or at least that was my opinion, maybe I expected too much from it, as I absolutely loved silence of the lambs, both the book and the movie.


Cassandra Sat Mar 3 21:43:31 PST 2001

a quip flip... a saucy acrobat? a snotty remark in the middle of searching for good tv shows? some kind of new-fangled hairdo?

I think I meant quick flip, but oh well. :)

Cassandra Sat Mar 3 21:40:17 PST 2001

Rachel- Congrats! He sounds like a little hottie, before you know it he'll be out breaking hearts left and right. But for now he's all yours, he needs you desperately... and will never talk back or complain about the way you talk to his friends. Be thankful of this time because it's where that love we all have for our mothers starts. :)

Speaking of that, I just talked to my mother on the phone for a good two hours. Being down in Daytona almost all Fall and Winter, I really start missing the craziness and the sanity that she brings. Leave it to her to be reasonably and rationally hypocritical.
I was so thankful getting to talk to her though. Because she's just a well of admiration and respect and love for me... I'm all sated and refreshed... and I thought I'd share the overflowing love I just received. :)

In case you guys wanted to know. And seeing as that I used to write some slightly depressing crap on here about not having anyone special in my life, and how guys my age almost always fell short of my expectations... I have a boyfriend now, of almost 8 months. He's an atmospherical science ( major and obsessed with snow storms...
He Woo HOO!'s the weather channel. He knows every weathercaster by their voice, or just by a quip flip past the channel...
He gave me a teddy bear for Valentines that when you squeeze wolf whistles and says I love you twice in a high pitched voice
He won't eat vegitables, except cucumbers (I just got him to try rice again, but he only ate 2 grains..and didn't even chew them)
let's just say he's a very quirky boy. But I'm a very quirky girl so it all works out. Besides he's the only guy I've ever met that appreciates everything about me (even the annoying stuff), and treats me with love and respect.

anywho, that's enough from me... I have to keep my mystique, so it's back to writing and doing schoolwork with me.



Mary Sat Mar 3 20:59:46 PST 2001

RACHEL: Congratulations and WHEW!!!!

SEBASTIAN: Welcome to the world, Little One.

HOWARD: Sorry to hear about your friend passing on. That can be such a blow. Big hugs.

How does Jon get so many cool vacations?

Think I will post some pet pictures tomorrow or Monday. We'll see.

SHORTIE THEME for this coming Thursday: LONELINESS

Mark Sat Mar 3 20:53:14 PST 2001

TRUDY -- Open up your news reader and go to -- I always go there looking for recipes, I have asked for recipes for particular dishes, and for recipes involving special ingredients. One day my wife came home with about 5 pounds of dried soy beans and said, "We need to eat these. These are good for us." Uh Huh. OK. What do I do with 'em? Got two pretty good ideas from the group there. There are people who hang out on that newsgroup the way we hang on the Notebook. I began using the internet in 1991 when it was all text (no pictures, no Netscape, no Internet Explorer). At that time the 'net was all about the free exchange of information and ideas. I still gravitate toward clusters of people who think that way. In 10 years I have only made one purchase.

TINA -- Busy, Busy, Busy. Thanks for asking.

RACHEL -- Thanks for the good news.

HOWARD -- You're the counterpoint to that. Thanks also.

Ain't it something? On the same day I read about one birth and one death on the Notebook.

As a writer I try to find some balance in how to use the 'net. I won't use Napster because it really is a rip-off of people's creative output. I have had my work stolen and I know how that feels. Sure, the record industry pricing model is an eye-gouge, but two wrongs don't make a right. If I go to and ask for a recipe, do I get one from someone's copyrighted cookbook? Sometimes. But the transaction is more one-on-one. Napster is publish, newsgroup is share.

In 1992 I found I had access to a place called Simtel, a U.S. Army datastore in White Sands Missile Range. The place was a huge data bank buried deep in a New Mexico cavern kept safe from Russian missile attack. When ARPAnet became the Internet and a wider range of places connected to the basic 'net, Simtel stayed open. People in the original net were supposed to use Simtel to back up their data. Quite a few of us began to realize that users didn't understand what that meant. People were backing their entire systems to Simtel. We got free copies of WordPerfect and some interesting sample documents. Not that we were supposed to. It was somehow a non-issue that we were pirating software, we were all sharing info and the means to display it. Around '93 it became an issue and by '95 Simtel had layers of protection, rules for up- and download, and men with military titles signing info sheets. The Army since quit running the place; it's now a Private concern and still has a ton of stuff, some free and some shareware. No more copies of files sent to back-up by Pentagon secretaries, though.

It's late, gotta go.

Debra Sat Mar 3 20:13:01 PST 2001


It sounds like your father really cared enough about you to make sure you learned your lesson. I can tell that already since you turned out so great.

We never know what kind of effect the things that happen to us will have until later. Life's an adventure.

I learned one thing about my kids and not going in reverse, they get really scared sitting in the car while my husband pushes it backwards and I steer. They cried until he got back in. Funny!

My finger is a mess now. I am such an idiot. I deserved to look like one. Of course I had help with trying to get four kids out of the care and two in the stroller all while no one leaves without me. You know how the big kids like to run ahead. Well when they do that the babies try to join them. So I was talking my son into not running and shutting the door when I realized my finger was in the wrong spot. There's one of those lessons now.


Thanks for telling me that. I feel better now. I really do.

So your riddle is sex.


Tina Sat Mar 3 19:45:54 PST 2001

Hello all.

Rachel! Congrats! Welcome Sebastian! Now get some rest. You're gonna need it! :-)

Hallee, you stubborn gal! Have you seen 'Green Mile' yet? I think you'd sympathize with Hank's character. hehehe

Hey, are you out there Mark? Haven't seen you here in awhile. Hope all is well. Christi, you too.

Welcome Taylor. If your stories are following you that closely, you simply have to write them down! When the muse hits, she rarely has compassion for the other priorities in your life. BUT... dreams can be a wonderful vessel for releasing creativity. The ideas that come from your unconcious (sp?) can be fresh and wonderful. Maybe try planning on writing your dreams down in the morning, to satisfy the 'beast'.

Howard, I feel for your loss. Hold on to those memories. They are the best balm for open wounds.

Time to go. TTFN

Trudy Sat Mar 3 19:35:53 PST 2001

Hi everyone, I have managed to get behind once again. It's so nice to see the notebook so lively. I won't respond to all the discussions that have been going on but want to say...

BARNABUS: Hi and nice to meet you...sorry I haven't checked in since your post on the 23rd of Feb. I hope to visit more often from here on in!

TEEKAY-- Congrats! Fingers crossed it all works out fine and you receive the cheque and see the story in print. I'm so excited for you. What's the mag and when is it expected out? Any news lately?

JACK -- I'm going to have to go buy that cookbook, or at least get a copy of the hot and sour soup out of it. My husband was out west several years ago and came back raving about this hot and sour soup...I have tried I don't know how many recipes and haven't been able to find one he likes even a little bit like the one out west...nice to find another to try.

HOWARD -- sorry for the loss of your friend. My sympathies are with you.

HEATHER -- Hi! and the question is, do you recall what the combination of keys is that acted as the 'publish my
message' button? I'vew often done things and then thought hey how did that happen? Never to be able to figure it out again.

DEBRA -- Thanks for the laugh...your reverseless car reminded me of a recent trip I took to Ireland with two girl friends...the car we rented didn't have reverse which made it very interesting for half a day. Picture two of us pushing the car while it was in neutral, including up a hill backwards once! Of course we did find out much to the amusement of an Irish gentleman that the car did have reverse, we just didn't know how to operate the stick. It wasn't done the same as it is here in Canada! Go figure *grin*

RACHEL -- congrats and welcome to Sabastian. Glad the story has a happy ending *hugs*

Hey BEN...did you and Kitty connect via email? Happy Birthday tomorrow!!!!!

RICHARD -- I give're hints are making it even more confusing. I'm so bad at riddles!

OK that's it...I hope to check in more frequently so you don't get novels from me anymore.

Happy weekend all.


Viv Sat Mar 3 19:23:15 PST 2001

Happy Birthday Ben and Sebastian! Ben 43 isn't old and your writing will be your retirement! Your job actually makes you more interesting. It's great when you write about it. It sounds tough physically, but a lot more healthy and active than other jobs. Basically, I'm waiting for your novel so keep on working buddy, I'm glad you didn't save that money and become a stock market millionaire.

On the rice essay, I'm still trying. I seem to be having a down time in the writing. I think it's probably due to the pollen. I'll be glad when the drug companies come out with something like Seldane/Teldane again. It really worked. The stuff we have now doesn't work and worse, makes me awfully depressed. Boy, next comes Cherry Blossom season and then the place turns yellow with tree pollen. I could use a little time out. That leaves me two I go to the ice rink today, or the swimming pool? Well, I must say, my daughter is enjoying this!

PS Congratulations Rachael! You deserve lots of credit for getting that little guy into the world. Enjoy! Enjoy looking at those little bitty hands and perfect fingernails. Can you believe anything could be so small yet grow so wonderfully. Boy, THERE's Something WORTH all the time and effort spent!

Richard Sat Mar 3 17:16:40 PST 2001

Pfft. Part of a relationship. Considered by too many to be the only part of a relationship...

Jerry Sat Mar 3 17:01:23 PST 2001

Rachel, so glad everything came out all right, all's well that ends well. Congrats, I know you must be so happy and relieved to have it over with.

Debra - way back in like 1968, I had an old 1950 Ford Custom 2 door coupe. Flat head V-8 and a three on the tree. I stopped at my cousin's gas station and put two bucks worth of gas in it (gas was like .35 cents a gallon) and when I was pulling away, my cousin shouted to spin the wheels, well I revved up the old flat head, and dumped the clutch, tore out first gear and reverse. I managed to hide that fact from my dad for three weeks but starting out in second all the time and never parking where I needed reverse. Then came the day when mom had the car up town, and dad ran out of smokes, he grabbed the extra keys for my Ford and went up to the bar for smokes and a fifth. When he got home, I no longer had a car. He gave it to my uncle, who needed the engine for his farm truck, since he had to have a tow anyhow he figured he might as well have it towed there. I never got another car until I could afford to pay cash for it. Worked all summer and saved up for my next car, needless to say, I never dumped the clutch on that one.


Debra Sat Mar 3 16:25:11 PST 2001


I totally give. I am face down on the ground crying, give.


Debra Sat Mar 3 15:49:34 PST 2001


Congratulations a thousand times over! I'm sure your releif should be bottled.

To bad we can't bottle it though.



Debra Sat Mar 3 15:48:33 PST 2001


You're right. I went everywhere today.

The only bad thing that happened is I shut my right pinky in the van sliding door.

That smarts. Really smarts.

Not only that I looked like an idiot in front of all my kids who I always tell to watch their fingers.



howard Sat Mar 3 15:14:30 PST 2001

RACHEL -- Congratulations!

SEBASTIAN -- WELCOME! Grow strong!

CASSANDRA -- Thanks!

RICHARD -- vine and branches? naw, that'd be too far out

Richard Sat Mar 3 14:26:16 PST 2001

Well, I would put my money into the bank, but at the moment I'm giving it to Revive, a Church-based project for getting people off drugs...

Ben Woestenburg Sat Mar 3 14:18:38 PST 2001

Oh yeah, I forgot, I won't be back this weekend because tomorrow's my birthday. 43 tomorrow. God, where did it all go?

Richard, one small word of advice: Don't waste your years like I did, and invest young, don't touch it for the rest of your life, and by the time you get where we are now, your retirement is set. You'll also retire a millionaire. But, just like everyone else your age, you won't listen--I didn't--and you'll get to be this age wondering where it all went, or why you don't have it. Sorry, I had to say that.

Allein Sat Mar 3 14:14:24 PST 2001

RACHEL!!! Congrats. Give Sebastian a kiss for me. :) He sounds like a cutie. I'm glad everything worked out okay. (((BIG HUGS))) Did the earthquake interfere with the birth at all or did it not reach up there?

Any 80's kids here remember Rainbow Brite? I don't know why I brought that up - just did. I love that show. Some of the characters are gracing my webpage. :)

Ben Woestenburg Sat Mar 3 14:13:02 PST 2001

Hallee: Wow. I just managed to pop in here for a little bit. I've been purposely staying away so I can re-work my novella for the Faulkner contest. Thanks to Teekay for pointing out an obvious fact. It also helps not having looked at it for almost a month.

Anyway, I live just outside of Vancouver, B.C. I work in a sawmill, on the water usually (imagine every picture of guys running on logs on the river and you have an idea of what I do, only we use boats nowadays, so it makes it a little easier.) The day of the quake I was on a machine that sits on a pedestal and picks logs up out of the water and puts them on a large deck with chains that lines them up for the de-barker. It's always been a standing joke around there about not wanting to be on the machine during an earthquake, or walking through the log yard where they store the logs in endless rows before they go into the mill. But, the machine didn't fall in the river--and with only one door in and out, and no room to move inside, getting out after dropping into the river could prove to be a problem. No logs went rolling through the yard, and no damamge was sustained in the mill at all. If we had Jack's quake, things might have been a little different.

Jack Beslanwitch Sat Mar 3 13:19:02 PST 2001



Richard Sat Mar 3 13:10:13 PST 2001

Rachel:: Congratulations! That's wonderful news. Reminds me of when my brothers where born... *stops and thinks of the screaming and howling*

Debra:: Foot and Mouth disease is completely harmless to humans, but they can be carriers. Anything with hooves is affected, except for horses, which can be carriers also. Meat prices are going higher because in order to control the disease ENTIRE herds are being killed off to halt the spread. There are many farms and businesses, butcher factories etc. that now have no source of income, very little money, and are being forced to fire workers. So, while a few paranoid individuals probably aren't eating meat at the moment, it is perfectly safe hence the so-called 'panic buying'.

EVERYONE: Come on, I'm not coughing up yet. Any more ideas?

Jerry Sat Mar 3 13:02:44 PST 2001

Debra - I had a car like that once, just remember never park where you can't get out going forward, and all works great.


Kru Sat Mar 3 12:17:34 PST 2001

Jack – Thanks for the reassuring words.
Jerry – Sorry to hear about Renn. Good luck. My old friend Murphy has serious arthritis in his spine and is beginning congestive heart failure, he is ten and a half. Our vet tells us we will have to say good-bye soon. For now his pain is controlled but I will have to make that awful decision to end his suffering sometime this year. We just bred his son, I hope he makes it till is grandpups get here to take some pictures.

Heather Sat Mar 3 12:03:20 PST 2001

Congratulations, Rachel! Sorry to hear that there were complications, but am I ever relieved to find that all is now well and happiness reigns!

Welcome to the world, Sebastian, may it treat you well.

Nice to see you, Cassandra!

Rachel Sat Mar 3 11:56:52 PST 2001

Hi all - Sebastian and I came home yesterday. I was induced on the 28th and gave birth on the 1st. Sebastian was born at 1:35am. He was 8pounds 7ounces. He has bright blue eyes and blond hair. I think he is just wonderful. My children did very well with the birth. Things didn't go so smooth as I would have liked, but Daniel and Jordan did great. My girlfriend still can't talk about the birth without crying. The birth of Sebastian was very much like the birth of my first son, which wasn't much fun for anyone involved. All I can say is that once he was revived nobody cared about anything that had happened before that. It was quite the celebration.

So, that is that. Now I will sit down with my journal and my correspondence and I will write my full baby journal.

I haven't had a chance to read over the posts since I went in to have Sebastian, I'm still a little tired. I send you all hugs!

I'm so glad that Sebastian and I were allowed to go home early. My doctor knows how much I hate being in the hospital. I rest a lot better at home.

I'll come back in the next day or so and read over the posts. I hope that you are all well.

Ciao for now,


Cassandra Sat Mar 3 10:54:43 PST 2001

On the subject of where Anything Box is, I have it. It's getting sent to Allein as soon as Spring Break goes into effect at this sanitarium I like to call college.

Viv and any other relatively new people-
Hi, pleased to meet you. I'm the friendly young ghost that wanders in here from time to time. Just for a little background, I'm a graphic design major at an upstate ny college and it takes up alot of my time.

On that same subject, our network here moves so slow that during the week, I can't access the web, or my email. So if I seem really elusive, don't worry, it's not that I don't like you guys, or that I'm killing myself with work. It's that my tuition goes absolutely nowhere. :)

Teekay- loved frenquency, though I agree that the movie did have it's slow points

Jerry- poor Ren, give him some love for me. I hate it when nice animals suffer. I had a cat that died from eating a neighbor's pesticide covered lawn... it caused her a lot of pain and we couldn't do anything about it. So having her put to sleep was the only solution. I still don't understand why some people need perfect lawns that much... it isn't a gigantic property value booster. Something tells me that they just have too much time on their hands.

Rowhad!- nice to see you. I'm sorry for your loss. He sounded like the type of person my generation could have actually used as a role model. I feel sadden by the loss because we have so few good ones left. Sometimes there's just a lull in the sunshine and you can tell that the world has changed a bit... maybe just sensitive people can feel it, but I do. :)

Rachel- congrats on the little one... I hope he comes into the world healthy, bright and creative ;) It'd be a shame if he didn't inherit just a little bit of what you have.

Anywho, it's off to look at dormatory housing for me.

catch you on the flip side (whereever that is...)


Debra Sat Mar 3 09:49:17 PST 2001

Well I'm off to my exciting adventure. I have to go buy a gift for a party that my son was invited to and drop him off after. Then I have to get my daughter's friend and drop them off at the movies.

Then I have to go pick up my son at the party I just dropped him off at, them I have to go back to the movies and get my daughter and her friend and drop her friend offback at her house, all without backing up.

Did I mention that my car doesn't go in reverse at ALL.

Let'ts hope it's all possible.

There are pictures of my family down below that Mary was kind enough to create for me since I'm such a computer dim wit, for anyone who would like to take a look.

I have to warn you I picked a picture of me without make up. I figured you might as well see the true me.

Wish me luck today.


Jerry Sat Mar 3 08:10:38 PST 2001

Taylor, the only remedy is to WRITE WRITE WRITE when you write, you free the demons that keep you awake at night. I have had such demons, and I know. When they come, one can do nothing but write.

No, Renn is not allowed any human food, in fact he has a special diet dog food recommended by his vet. They say he has dog epilepsy, and there really isn't much we can do for him but to comfort him when he comes out of the seizures.


Jerry Sat Mar 3 08:10:07 PST 2001

Taylor, the only remidy is to WRITE WRITE WRITE when you write, you free the demons that keep you awake at night. I have had such demons, and I know. When they come, one can do nothing but write.

No, Renn is not allowed any human food, in fact he has a special diet dog food recomended by his vet. They say he has dog epolepsy, and there really isn't much we can do for him but to comfort him when he comes out of the seziures.


Debra Sat Mar 3 07:29:32 PST 2001


I know the feeling. I will say a prayer for you. I know that you don't feel better right away. YOu might seem better, but you won't be better. That takes longer. Hang in.

Thanks for saying that about my family.

My pictures are safe to look at. We are all well now.

For now!.


Debra Sat Mar 3 07:26:43 PST 2001


Here's my question. If the reporters said that there was a bad batch of meat, why would anyone run to the store to get it as fast as possible.

Does that make sense to you?


Richard Sat Mar 3 03:32:10 PST 2001

This is a laugh. Last night I saw a special program on the foot & mouth crisis. It was hilarious! While it is doing serious damage to our agriculture, the way they tried to sensationalize it for those completely unaffected in the cities etc. was just comical. At one point a reporter came on and said. "Here we have an example of panic buying of meat..." he then talked to this guy who said in very calm and unconcerned voice, that he bought his lamb early because he was afraid he wouldn't be able to get hold of it for a dinner party in a few weeks time. Panic buying??? What a hoot...

Richard Sat Mar 3 02:21:31 PST 2001


Okay, here's some clues:

1. It is NOT a food
2. The riddle is symbolic
3. It describes a relationship or part of a relationship

Hallee Sat Mar 3 01:50:40 PST 2001

JERRY: Do you feed Ren human food? We had a Britney Spaniel that had seizures. When he was about two he had one so bad that my parents took him to the ER for dogs. The vet said something in human food sparked his seizures, and he was only allowed from then on to have white rice or chicken broth if we felt like we had to give him anything. We stopped the food, and his seizures disappeared. Well, my husband (then boyfriend) didn't know and the first time he was over for dinner he slipped him a piece of bread soaked in lasagna sauce, and it triggered a seizure. Anyway, he lived to be 14.

RICHARD: Fess up.

TAYLOR: Hahaha - welcome to the club.

LITTER: Nice excuse. ;)

DEBRA: Cute family.

I'm still not feeling well, but I did finally call the doctor. Hint from experience: Don't try to treat a bladder infection just because you don't have time to go to the doctor. Sigh. And in the end, he didn't need to see me anyway and called in a prescription for me. So I suffered from intense pain for nearly a week for absolutely no reason at all, thinking that surely the cranberry juice will do something soon.

Well, I have to have lunch with my mother in law today. Think of me, and if you hear about someone in Tallahassee who finally snapped and went insane in the middle of a restaurant, you'll know it was me. She called late last night to see if she could take me to lunch for my birthday - and then shopping to pick out my present. Obviously, she forgot it - not entirely impossible - and this is restitution. So, now I have to be alone with her for a few hours. Yeehaw. Notice my enthusiasm? HAHAHAHA

RICHARD: Fess up! I hate riddles - my mind doesn't work that way. Halfway through it, I thought it was a woman, but then the whole preparation came in, and I knew it wasn't.

Okay - time to write, because I have to stop early and start scrubbing my house because SHE doesn't want to meet me, she wants to pick me up. (another heavy sigh) hahaha

Happy Saturday!


Sat Mar 3 00:47:09 PST 2001

Sorry, me again. I coughed and hit the keyboard, and wouldn't you know it? I happened upon a combination of keys that act as the 'publish my message' button, totally by accident. I hadn't typed a message yet, so those two blank ones were mine.
There's that ugly, mean little 'first time for everything' thing, and it just happened to me.

I hate that adage.

It better not be an axiom.

And I've pushed my limits of wakedness, (not nakedness)
so it's time to fly.

Heather (last time, really)

Sat Mar 3 00:42:07 PST 2001

I didn't think maple trees had fruit


Hand me the keys. Maple keys, that is.
But hey - they do make maple syrup, and that's definately sweet. But the sap isn't poisonous. And neither are the leaves...

What about a FIG?

I don't know fig about figs.


Sat Mar 3 00:40:43 PST 2001

Sat Mar 3 00:40:42 PST 2001

Heather Sat Mar 3 00:40:19 PST 2001

Hey, John, John Hart!
I'm still listening, by the way, if you do want to say something. Have you been lurking?


Heather Sat Mar 3 00:16:04 PST 2001

That reminds me, I've left the teabag in the pot now for over an hour. Yipeee!


Heather Sat Mar 3 00:13:51 PST 2001

Howard, I am very sorry to hear of your loss. What you wrote was very touching and it made me miss my grandfather very much. He was one of the very few survivors of the beaches at Normandy, WWII. He lived to be 81 as well.

Jerry, I really do hope Ren is alright. I know how much a part of your life he is. I know this will sound odd, but my daughter's guinea pig has seizures as well. Her guinea pig is one of the family, and a much loved little soul. I have been astonished time and again by her sweetness; if ever a lamb was born into a rodent's body, this is the one.
Anyhow, we know that a guinea pig's average life span is three years. Ginny turned 3 in January. Every time I pass by her cage in my daughter's room and she looks still, I check to make sure she's alive, dreading the day I look and she isn't. I don't think the seizures will actually shorten her life span, but they give us a good scare.

Taylor: Sorry, no cure. Writers are just doomed to grouchy, hermit-ish moods, with a side-dish of reclusivism and a peppering of eccentricism, just for that extra kick. Welcome. It's a good thing this is a net group with no specially planned time to meet. I'd not like everyone to witness me showing up late in my pajamas, swilling coffee through an I.V. drip.

Top o' the mornin' to ya,


taylor Fri Mar 2 23:01:11 PST 2001

i have really began to write seriously lately, but now it seems to affect my sleep and also i seem to become moody...
any remedies for this

Jerry Fri Mar 2 20:48:51 PST 2001

You know how great it is to hear from an old buddy from the war. It sort of makes a fellow feel young again, to talk about the old days, the old crowd, when we were young and full of piss and vinegar. When we were still invulnerable, we couldn't be hurt, couldn't be killed, it made no difference that our buddies were dead, they must have made a mistake, and we were perfect, we didn't make mistakes, after all we didn't die did we? Was I ever so stupid, well I guess I was. Boy I would never do today some of the dumb things I did over there. Well truth be known I couldn't do most of the things I did over there anymore. That must be why we always send our young men to war, instead of the old farts. If they sent me over now, I could bore the enemy to death if they would just sit still long enough for me to quit talking.

I am remembering things I though were gone, things I really don't want to remember, and many that I do. I think it balances out in the end. Took a bunch of my old photo's, the ones I took while I was in Nam and scanned them in then attached them to some Emails and sent them to my old friend. He mentioned that he never took any, and I hope he will enjoy these. I think he will.

Been a long day, Renn had a seizure today, he has them from time to time, but I though he was gone this time. I always pick him up and hold him until he comes out of it, but this time he passed out when it was over. I laid him on the couch and covered him up with his favorite afghan. After an hour (seemed like forever) he came to again. He walked jumped down from the couch, walked over and licked me on the hand, then jumped back on the couch and went to sleep. He slept most of the day, but seems ok now. I worry about him, as he is getting up in years, and may not be with us for much longer. I will miss him when he is gone.


Jerry Fri Mar 2 19:11:26 PST 2001

Howard, sad to hear that, I knew one of the survivors myself, he was a fantastic fellow. I recall when his wife passed on, I was on the ambulance crew that day and had to pick up her body. It was so sad to see him sitting there, like a lost child, "what am I supposed to do now?" he ask me. I just sat with him for a couple of hours, while the rest of the crew took his wife to the funeral home.

Well it is Spring here, got up to 40 today, the snow is melting, sun is shining, still gets down in the teens at night, but hopefully the sub zero weather is over.

Richard - horse raddish?


howard Fri Mar 2 18:38:06 PST 2001

I just got word that a friend has passed on. He was just a little guy, 81 years old, but he was a survivor. In fact, he was one of the few survivors of the Bataan Death March early in WWII, and of the awful years as a P.O.W. after that. He wrote a book about that, titled "Nine Must Die." He and Nettie were married in Tokyo in 1950, and have served until just this year as missionaries ministering to US (and other) servicemen all around the world. I knew him personally, and am all the richer for it. He was one of the most humble men I ever met, and I'll miss him.
RIP Jessie L Miller, 1920-2001.

Debra Fri Mar 2 18:26:07 PST 2001


No wait you are a lemon tree.

That's it.

Okay my last guess. It's not a guess. It's my answer

A lemon tree.


Debra Fri Mar 2 18:24:27 PST 2001


Wait a maple tree!

That's what you are.


Debra Fri Mar 2 18:18:08 PST 2001


Now I know it's a tomato.


Heather Fri Mar 2 16:53:05 PST 2001

Richard, the only things I can think of are lemons or olives. I can't remember if it's what olives are treated with that makes them poisonous until they are further treated, or if they are poisonous until treated. Lemons aren't poisonous, but people 'stand outside' if they have a lemonade stand, and can appear foolish at any time. Lemon juice is pretty sour until prepared into lemonade, or lemon slices are pretty sour unless cooked or sugared. 'Having a lemon' means you're having a rough go, 'Buying a lemon' means you bought a dead car...
Olives aren't exactly sweet...

I'll think about it longer perhaps.


Jerry Ericsson Fri Mar 2 16:31:39 PST 2001

Strange, they are now lime green and hot pink for me in IE too. Must be aftereffects of the earth quake


Mary Fri Mar 2 15:56:48 PST 2001

RICHARD: I have been trying off and on for hours to solve your riddle. The only thing I can think of is that Robert Kirk wrote a book on faeries and druids and all that jazz called, "Walker Between Worlds". In that book, there is a tree who's fruit carries all the plagues of Hell. It is poisonous if you eat it raw, but the legend doesn't specify what type of fruit. Sometimes it is even a tree of many fruits. I am sure that isn't even on the right track, because riddles that seem complicated usually have the simplest of answers. I did want to mention the book though in case you were into that type of thing.

Back on my head!

Litter Fri Mar 2 14:37:57 PST 2001

Hi People.

Jeez, what happened last night? I came to deposit my shortie and couldn't post anything but I see Jack has fixed the 'Posting box'.

Anyway, as luck would have it and after attempting to post said shortie, I closed the Word window without saving -- force of habit as I compose in word, post and close Word without saving, thus no cluttering up my hard drive with duplicated messages. D'oh! So now neither the workbook nor my hard drive are cluttered with my abortive shortie. Maybe just as well as it was pretty strange, such was my 'humour' last night.

I keep on making plans for what I'm going to do and then find lots of other things to do in their stead. Anyone else have that problem? I even put procrastinating off until tomorrow…

Anyone heard from Rachel and Sebastian yet?

Glad to hear that there were no notebook casualties of the recent earthquake. The worst I have ever experienced was only as bad as a heavy truck driving by just outside. Don't really want to experience anything worse than that, although I have been in some pretty nasty air turbulence.

Energy reserves low, catch you all later,


Richard Fri Mar 2 13:28:01 PST 2001

Er... are raw grapes poisonous?

It's a little more obscure than that ;)

Fri Mar 2 13:22:07 PST 2001

p.s. To be precise after doing a short bit of checking, everything from February 24 to February 27 went missing. Again, sorry about that.

Jack Beslanwitch Fri Mar 2 13:20:55 PST 2001

Kru: If you go to the bottom of this page you will note in parenthesis (the rest seems to have disappeared) . I meant this literally. The rest of this Notebook disappeared, taking the entry box with it. A shade annoying. So, some people are responding to bits and pieces from a now nonexistent Notebook. You are not encountering premature senility, just the foibles of the internet and servers and an occasional glitch.

Debra Fri Mar 2 13:13:26 PST 2001


Are you grapes?


Richard Fri Mar 2 13:07:43 PST 2001

When prepared and nurtured my fruit are sweet and fulfilling
But plucked straight from the branch they are bitter and sour
People sit around me and extoll my virtues
Though they may taste the poison my raw juices offer
For those who stand outside or prepare my fruit are made to seem foolish

What am I?

Debra Fri Mar 2 11:43:27 PST 2001


Thanks. I do think my kids are great too. My husband is a real cutie pie too. If there is one thing I can work, that's a tweezer.


Rosemary Fri Mar 2 11:30:55 PST 2001

Greetings All,
It is winter here again. We had a week of high seventys and low eighties and I thought the cold weather was gone. Nope--it's raining and in the fourties or so. Won't last long though. Our winter is usually over by March.

I looked at your pictures. Great kids, good looking husband, but all I could get of your picture was the top of your head to the eyebrows. Nice eyebrows.

Hope you feel better soon. It's no fun to have to lay around when you feel bad. More fun when you just want to.

So glad you're chuffed. (love that expression)

Personally, I would have loved to read an essay on rice cultivation. Those rice paddies stair-stepping up the side of a mountain in japan always intrigued me.

I'm going to have to start my Short Shorties on Wed. Thursday evening TV is too good.

Later Gater,

Debra Fri Mar 2 10:39:34 PST 2001


Thank you so much. I couldn't have done this without your kindness.


Thank you too.

I don't even want to know how you did that.

Just have my sincere thanks.

I hope you all like the pictures.

I know I enjoyed the ones I saw of all of you.


Fri Mar 2 10:24:14 PST 2001

LOL, That must be you JERRY! Thanks! ~~mary

Mary Fri Mar 2 10:23:05 PST 2001

DEBRA: You are too cute. Here is her picture page guys. Big hugs.

CyberMechanic Fri Mar 2 10:22:02 PST 2001

For Debra: This link should work :o)

Debra Fri Mar 2 10:13:54 PST 2001

Okay. Don't click on any of these.

Mary heeeellllllllllllp!..

Debra Fri Mar 2 10:13:12 PST 2001 Fri Mar 2 10:12:22 PST 2001

Debra Fri Mar 2 10:10:46 PST 2001

Here is the webpage that Mary made for me.

Thank you so much Mary.

I am truly blessed to have friends like you.


Debra Fri Mar 2 09:38:31 PST 2001


It's better a sit and sleep than a sleep and spin.



howard Fri Mar 2 09:27:08 PST 2001

The website listed above gives a pretty good idea what the quake must have been like. I can't imagine sitting through something like that any more than I absolutely had to!

Fri Mar 2 08:39:50 PST 2001

JERRY: I am in the latest version of Explorer and I am still getting lime green and hot pink links. I tried Communicator and got them too.

Debra Fri Mar 2 08:29:17 PST 2001


Thanks I miss those days too. The sad part is my kids will never know that simple joy that we all here in my area do.

It just so happens that I picked out four pictures.

One is my husband with one twin Jill and my back yard. One is me without make-up. You might as well see the worse picture of me. The other two are of the kids. I'm sending them right over.


Mary Fri Mar 2 08:21:04 PST 2001

DEBRA: Try to keep the pictures you choose to sets of four because the page wizard I use only takes four at a time. I can make you more than one page....but keep it to sets of four.

Mary Fri Mar 2 08:14:15 PST 2001

DEBRA: Your chowder story reminded me of the Crab Houses in Maryland. I can still see the newspapers lining the round tables and hear the cracking shells when you hit them with the little red hammer. And those oh-so-fashionable plastic bibs. Hahaha. Wow, those were good times. I miss them.

Debra Fri Mar 2 08:09:38 PST 2001


Thank you very much. I'll put just a few in the emial to you as soon as I pick them out.

I want to get the best ones. That means the ones my husband took.

Mine are all blury.

Thank you so much.


Mary Fri Mar 2 08:08:11 PST 2001

DEBRA: Absolutely, I would be more than happy to help you out with the pictures. Let me know what you need.

IKEA ROCKS. I would buy/make my own pegs.

HEATHER: High fives.

Mary Fri Mar 2 07:57:50 PST 2001

Good Morning Everybody!

Sorry to see no more shorties up, but the ones that are here: Good Job and thank you very much. Hey, we all get busy sometimes. I have missed a few myself. :-) Besides, you have to be in the mood to write about food.

HALLEE: Hope you are feeling better soon.

RACHEL: Big hugs for your whole family.

TINA: Hope all is getting better for you.

TEEKAY: My kids make that sit and spin look so fun, I tried to ride it once. (I never had one when I was little). I was too heavy to make it spin. (there is a nice laughable image for you) For Christmas, Santa brought them the "Rocket Ride" which is a two seater Sit and Spin. I couldn't ride that one either. Maybe I will invent a line of adult sized toys for people who didn't get to have them when they were little. Huge hobby horses and sit-n-spins. Teeter totters and stuff like that. Kind of a revisit-your-youth type deal. Maybe after my internet cafe gets rolling.

Debra Fri Mar 2 07:54:03 PST 2001


I love your shortie on food. I looking for the great weather now.

I was wondering if I could ask you favor?

I don't know how to put pictures on the notebook.

Could I send a few pictures to you and you could put them up for me?

I would only ask once. I promise not to haveing you working full time for me.


Debra Fri Mar 2 07:29:49 PST 2001


I wanted to tell you I feel your pain about the water in your house.

It is the worse of the worse.

I hope you have it all under control now.


Debra Fri Mar 2 07:27:22 PST 2001

I don't really have a shortie on Food.

Any shortie I try to write on food will come out as a longie.

I can say that when my husband and I were dating we used to love to ride down on his motorcycle to this place called Rocky Point. It is a combination chowder hall and amusement park.

We would park the bike near the water which was also the Atlantic Ocean and eat clam cakes and chowder. The hall had row after row of tables and each table could seat armys of people.

I always loved how the clam cakes would saturate the brown paper bag with grease.

Then when we were done eating we would get back on his bike and ride around until we were to tired to do it any more.

Of course then we got married and the kids came. If that wasn't enough they closed the place and sold it.

It is nice to think about though.


Jerry Fri Mar 2 07:12:28 PST 2001

Viv - that program does just that, it goes in, and copies all the files, yet leaves no trace that it has been there. I think it was designed for the student to study HTML design, however I can see where it could lead to plagerism of website design, although one could do the same with cut and paste. This program, however also takes copies of all the fonts, cgi programing, java programing, visual basic programing, photos and anything else the designer placed in any directory, or file that is stored at the website, it also checks all the links, and if the website designer links to another site, it will go into that site and take all the design and files from that location also. The program used to be called Marauder.


Allein Fri Mar 2 06:58:09 PST 2001

Tina - Thanks. :) I'll look over it later.

Jack - My mother claims she has a Chinese cookbook called "How to Wok Your Dog". Even though I haven't seen it I'm keeping Pepper protected.

Ramon - I like Italian food too!! Yummy yummy!!

Heather Fri Mar 2 06:55:13 PST 2001

Kru - I'll have a look at my collection of chicken soup recipes and email you the top 2 or 3... I think I've got that many at least.


Heather Fri Mar 2 06:53:56 PST 2001

Oh, man, I can't wait until spring! Just remembering the smell of the BBQ and sitting outside on the deck! *HUGE SIGH*

Although, we have been barbequing in the winter, it's just not the same if we don't eat outside...


Heather Fri Mar 2 06:50:31 PST 2001

Gabe, perhaps it would be cheaper and easier if you would call Ikea and ask for the remaining pegs to be sent to you, or go and pick them up. Then you don't have to assemble another CD rack and experience shelves falling down again. I have never had any missing parts when assembling any of my ikea furniture, and have always been happy with the product. Then again, I am very picky with my purchases, and very particular about putting them together. If it is inconvenient for you to go back to Ikea, use dowling. Buy a piece of dowling[sp?] the same circumference as the wooden pegs that were in the box for your CD rack. Take one of the ikea dowels with you or, trust me, you'll buy the wrong size. Simply cut the dowling to the same length as the ikea ones, and using carpenter's glue on your new pieces, put the rack back together. The reason you will want carpenter's glue with purchased dowling and not the ikea pegs? Ikea pegs are usually textured (lines cut into them) so that glue is unnecessary. The dowels from the hardware store are smooth. The dowling will cost you about a dollar, the glue about 2 dollars. I think that's a pretty cheap fix. Your new dowels and the ikea pegs will hold about the same. I've found that all of the ikea furniture I've ever bought was well-engineered and sturdy if put together correctly. Then again, I buy the 'higher end' pieces. The 'student' or lower end products are quite well designed, but the finish usually doesn't last - it's mostly laquer or veneer. That's the way it is with most furniture places - one scratch on a lacquer surface and you can kiss a visit from the Queen goodbye.
I think the piece you bought is a medium or higher end piece, so if you put it together with the dowels as I've suggested, you should enjoy quite a few years of CD's not scattering on your floor at 2 am.

Sorry for the long winded Ikea defense, I just happen to think that company is great. I love Swedish design - so simple and elegant, and completely functional. I'm not a frills and lace type. After all, what the heck are the frills for? They're not even that great to look at.

Here's my shortie on food - a little late - sorry Mary. I tried to write one last night but the signin box was gone. I'm glad you found that problem and fixed it Jack! Thanks!

~~~~~~~~Not Without My Topping

"Just a second!"
Fingers poked and prodded into the jar, but the last sour little devil wouldn't comply. With every down-stroke, it swam to the other side of the jar, and sank again.
Aha. The fork. Solves many household problems!
"MMMmmm! Got it!" She announced, crunching the end of the pickle between her teeth, and slurping the juice at the same time.
She pushed the door open and joined her family on the deck. "I see you couldn't wait," she laughed, looking at each of her children and her husband, all busily eating freshly barbequed hamburgers. "But the perfect burger can't be eaten without the fine taste of pickle included."
"What took you so long?" Her husband asked, as she cut the pickle lengthwise and lay the strips across the smoking patty.
"Last one," she said, between chews.


Viv Fri Mar 2 06:12:04 PST 2001

Hello everyone,
I'm glad everyone made it through the earthquake. It says something for American engineering that no one was hurt in a 7 point shaker like that! Good building and enough space can make a major earthquake into a minor event. Way to go...well built Seattle.

Rachel...I hope you get finished with your pregnancy TODAY, and you have a nice little one curled up beside you and a little peace an quiet to enjoy your first days together.

No shortie on food this week. Why? I dunno'. I started one and it ended up to be an essay on rice cultivation. Where is my creative brain? I think I must have left it on the airplane. I'm quitting for tonight. I'll try again tomorrow morning.

What's this about stealing websites and cutting them up to see how they operate. This sounds like something my children would do! Around my house the doors are always falling off the hinges. (Kids learning how a door hinge works) The toaster oven handle pops off because someone took the entire thing apart and left it in pieces on the kitchen shelf. No one blames anyone for this, the pieces slowly reassemble themselves and doors go back on the hinges if I ignore them. Still, nothing works quite right after it has been taken apart.

I sent one kid off to college and the dorm rules stated firmly that no one was allowed to take the windows and doors off the hinges or climb on top of the elevator when it was moving. I thought those were very good rules and pointed them out to my daughter at once. She gave a little smile, took her little screwdriver-pocket knife out of her pocket and said, "if no one sees, it doesn't count!"

Jerry, because of broken handles on toaster ovens...could you copy and paste that program so that the website is left untouched? That way no one sees, nothing gets lost, and all the parts are left working.

Our owl is back! He's hooting outside my window saying, "goodnight, time to sleep!" Night all. Viv

Kru Fri Mar 2 05:42:32 PST 2001

Good Morning Group,
Jerry – We’re a bit congested for any kind of gun, especially at night. This county is sadly getting developed. Plus you probably have bigger predators where you are. Our biggest problems are raccoon, occasionally opossum and fox or skunk, maybe once a weasel. Once, when I got my first birds and was waking up to fewer birds every morning I sat in my car with a .22 and waited for what ever it was. I hung the bird that was killed the night before in an open space and waited. About 2 AM a raccoon showed up. I got 3 shots off before he hit the brush. He came back the next night. I had a profession at the time and didn’t want a second career of nocturnal predator control. For a while I set traps but realized soon that there are a lot more raccoons in these woods than I had any idea. I used live traps and good thing too because mostly I caught my own cats and neighbors dogs. The neighbor’s dogs were a big problem until I put up a fence to keep them out. Predation really did not become a problem in my head, I just accepted it, until I retired and got more serious about producing my own meat. One year I lost about 50 birds in 6 months. The problem was the worst in the spring when I had hens with chicks and when I first release young birds before they learn to pop up into the trees. That year I talked with a dog trainer friend and he recommended an old style Australian Shepherd but to be careful not to buy one of the new Aussie’s and gave me some tips to find what I really needed. It took about 9 months of searching and looking, talking with breeders about their line of dogs and finally found one. Her first year here as just a pup we only lost one bird and I can sleep all night. In addition she is a really cool dog, fast, fearless and lots of fun to play with.

TEEKAY – A sexy food story, whoda thunk it? Clever.

Mark – I can’t eat spicy hot foods any more and really miss them. Your shorty brought on a wave of nostalgia.

Mary – Your children are just plain gorgeous. You seem to have fixed the color problem.

Jack – Thanks for the cookbook recommendation. I think that there are parts of the NB missing. People seem to be responding to some statements that I didn’t read. I suppose there is the possibility that I am having early onset Alzheimer’s but there are some message headings from nobody that don’t say anything. Maybe others can read those messages? Is there a sub group in the NB that has a secret code in their computers?

Tina – I hope you are talking about the story about Pete. I was serious about the chicken story. It’s a terrible thing to write a serious piece that leaves the readers rolling in the aisles.

Group – I make a lot of chicken soup and am getting tired of my old recipe. Anybody have a good unusual chicken soup recipe that is not too hard to make and freezes well?

RRRRRAMON Fri Mar 2 05:36:55 PST 2001

Hi everyone its boring ole me again *smiles cheesily* I've re-posted my short story in the workbook with some changes - well obvioulsy otherwise there would be no point. I have taken on board the pointers given to me (Teekay, Hop thanks mateys, you Australians do know quite a thing about writing. Still can't stand THE VIVISECTOR by Patrick White (YUK).) I personally think this version reads better but please find some time in your hectic schedules to have a look and give me your thoughts. Any more tips appreciated.

Whilst re-writing it I decided I am not going to sell it to a publication because I want use it more as a writing exercise, and keep each version to see how my skills (????) develope. Think this is a good idea? I will however use it (not all of it) for when I come to work on a novel. Watch this space.

JERRY: Foot and mouth disease is really bad here to the point where ZOOs have closed, footpaths through farm and countryside have all been blocked off. We were also due to start our census this year but thats off now. So yeah its quite bad.

TEEKAY: Watcha. Keeping out of Mischief? Hope not.

CHRISTI: Hi there haven't spoken to you in a while, I guess we're all very busy at the moment. As long as you and your family are keeping well.

HOP: I am trying to find more dialect tips that don't vary on a swear word or human genitalia, sums up human beings as a whole doesn't it. Although here's one that'll get you. FERK. Any ideas? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

TO ALL THOSE FROM SEATTLE: Yes I too heard about the earthquake and glad to know you're all okay.

MARY: No shortie again this week but I do have a receipe for a cracking spanish omlette. Anybody interested drop me a line (No not a _____________)

JACK: Chinese cooking aaaaaaaaaaaaa. Chinese are second best at cooking next to Iranians and Italians who rule. Yay.

Anyway I am dashing (as in off, away) to do some work.



Fri Mar 2 01:56:42 PST 2001

Hallee Fri Mar 2 01:56:30 PST 2001

Hey everyone!

MARY: shorty. I'm still feeling lousy - I fell asleep on the couch last night right after dinner and woke up in time to read Kaylee one story and go to bed. Maybe I'll do one later.

MARK: Hahahaha. Funny thing is, during the LA riots, my brother was in the middle of the pack that helped start them. In Life Magazine, there's a picture of the protesters outside of the courthouse, and my brother's best friend is in the face of a police man screaming at him, you can see my brother's shoe and his fist as he shook it in the guy's face.

ROB: That sounds so very odd...I can't imagine a publisher showing your work to anyone other than their people in house. I'd get a little loud if I were you.

Okay - off to work on chapter 9. Kaylee woke up yesterday morning at like 4:45 and completely messed up my writing time. In an hour, I think I wrote two paragraphs.

Yippee! It's Friday!


Tina Thu Mar 1 23:30:49 PST 2001

Allein, you're about to get an e-mail from '', with an attachment. It's just me sending you some thoughts. :-)


Tina Thu Mar 1 22:50:24 PST 2001

Thank you Kru. I needed a light moment just then.


Teekay Thu Mar 1 21:59:32 PST 2001

MARY: Your children look like little cherubs. That sit and spin thing looks like fun too.

Teekay Thu Mar 1 21:55:52 PST 2001

Hi All,

BARNABAS: Thanks, but I'm really not good at reading from the monitor. One of the reasons why ebooks would never be a thing with me.
And quality is everything.
It was a lovely thought though. :-)

The magazine has replied and they are being very helpful. Problem still not fully solved yet though.

TRIVIA: Sexual activity can stimulate labour in women as there is a chemical (is chemical the right word?) in the semen which softens the cervix.
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, I knew you wanted to know.

YETI: Human persons could, only they have forgotten how.

ALLEIN: Your school was probably unharmed because it was so old. They made things much better long ago. I know everybody says it, but it's true, in most cases.

JACK: I thought you must have archived, but it hadn't come up in the archives yet. :-)

MARY: I would've, but you got here ages before me. :-)

I give '28 days' a 7/10. It reminded me very much of a book called Rachel's Holiday by Marain Keyes. I give the book a 10/10 though.

I give 'frequency' a 10/10 for story and a 7/10 for the film, there were a few boring bits.

I haven't watched 'Fargo' yet, but I have it for a week, so, no rush.

Bought a new TV today. Now we just need a new video to go with it. Get this. The TV was originally $388:00, but as it was a display item, we bought it for $150:00.
I never usually get bargains like that. I'm chuffed.

Thu Mar 1 21:45:39 PST 2001

Jerry Thu Mar 1 20:40:52 PST 2001

Mary - Yep, that did it, I came back with Netscape, and the lime green/hot pinks links were back, they behaved themselves with Explorer, haven't tried Opera yet, but my guess would be that they would be pink and green with it also.

Jack/Mark, Hot and Spicy soup, love it, have it every time we go to Rapid City where we eat at the Hunan cafe.


Jack Beslanwitch Thu Mar 1 20:31:22 PST 2001

Mark: If you want a really extraordinary recipe for hot and sour soup you can do at home check out the cookbook below. I have used it many times and was lucky enough to have eaten in the restaurant of the same name in San Francisco before Barbara Tropp closed it down. If you buy only one Chinese cookbook, especially if you love Seschuan (hot and spicy), this is the one to get. Also, if you have trouble finding the dried Wood Ear mushrooms or the whole Seschuan peppercorns let me know and I will hunt up the location for getting them. It is sometimes nice to have a friendly neighborhood international district just a couple of miles away. Take care.

Jerry Thu Mar 1 20:20:33 PST 2001

Mary, I just had the lime green, hot pink experience a few seconds ago, had to come back with MS Internet Explorer. I was trying out this new browser by Java, neat little browser, but a bit slow compared to IE, and the colors...

mark Thu Mar 1 20:06:50 PST 2001

I'd never had Hot and Sour soup before.
-- This restaurant is terrific. I'm glad you like Chinese.
-- Uh huh
-- Sherri, Bud and I came here to have meetings when IBM was in its downsizing mode. It's close to everything, but somehow never gets any IBM traffic. We could all meet here without starting any gossip at the plant.
-- I don't know how this place escapes that traffic.
-- Me either. But it was a real find. Is this our order?
The soup arrived. I'd told him that I'd never tried it before. "Trust me," he said. OK. So I ordered it. This, then, was the test of that trust.
-- Wussamatta, Bob? Soup too hot?
He was laughing. On another day, in another place, I probably would have resented his laugh. Right then, at that point, I felt like I was in the company of a big, amiable fella who simply enjoyed himself. He may have even relived his first hot soup through me. I relaxed and enjoyed it.
-- You betcha. Man, what's in this stuff?
-- Dunno, but it seems like cayenne to me.
I took another spoon. The burn was not so bad as the first spoon or two. Another spoon. Another spoon.
-- This stuff's pretty good. I heard on a morning show that cayenne even has good medicinal properties.
-- Really? Everything else you hear is how all the food you can buy will kill you. I'll die hot.
I laughed. I was hot. Holy crow. Another spoon. Another spoon. Another spoon.
-- Man, I'm sweatin here.
He laughed. I laughed. I took off my suit coat and finished the soup.

Mary Thu Mar 1 19:44:22 PST 2001

The links visited/not visited colors are all funky. Lime green and hot pink. I will check my settings, but it was fine before the twilight zone incident earlier.

Mary Thu Mar 1 19:38:38 PST 2001

Well where is everybody?????? C'mon guys, I am really going to miss the shorties tomorrow morning if more people don't show up! ;-)

BTW, Put new pictures of my children up. Link above.

Mary Thu Mar 1 18:09:43 PST 2001

AHA! I knew it wasn't just me.

Sorry about that formatting....lesson learned.

Mary Thu Mar 1 18:06:55 PST 2001

TEEKAY: I don't know if it was just me or not (I am thinking NOT), but I will go ahead and post my shortie now. Thank you anyway.

Here is my shortie on food:

Jack couldn't wait to get in his cool house. The air conditioning in his car had chosen the hottest damn day of the year to roll
over and spit and after his thirty minute bumper-to-bumper commute from work all he wanted was the feel of central air
smacking him in the face and to get out of his wet shirt. Even the garage door seemed to go up slower that usual as he waited
to pull into his garage. Finally, he turned off the engine, and walked to the door adjoining the kitchen leaving his briefcase in the
passenger seat.

He swung open the door, closing his eyes to relish the cold air that he knew Ann, his wife, would have cranked on a day like
today. She hated the heat almost as much as he did. When no such coolness greeted him, he opened his eyes and there she
was. Ann, with a white cotton sundress clinging to her skin, leaning against the front of the refrigerator with both doors open, a
fan in the freezer blowing the stray hairs around her face, very much enjoying a cherry popsicle. If Jack had thought he was hot
before, he had no idea what was going to hit him. He was frozen in the doorway when she turned her head slightly at the sound
of him and she smiled a bright white smile with the popsicle still between her teeth. He watched her tongue circle the tip of the
popsicle before she closed her lips around it and pulled it from her mouth. "Hi, baby," she said, "close the door, you're letting all
the heat out."

Jack gave a small chuckle as he shut the door with his heel and took steps toward his wife, wondering how she still had such an
immediate affect on him. Married ten years and she could still get a rise out of him with just a glance. His keys broke the
silence when he tossed them on the counter. "You're dripping," he said, motioning to the red juice dripping onto her hand. He
tried not to smile too big as she licked the cherry popsicle from her fingers.

"Why don't you take off that shirt, Jack. You would feel better."

He took another step toward Ann as he unbuttoned his shirt, then so close he could smell her perfume rising off of her in
waves. She tipped the popsicle in his direction, offering it to him and he took it between his teeth, hesitating only a second
before biting off a piece and kissing her. When he finally pulled away, she tossed the rest of the popsicle into the sink from
where they stood. "Aren't you too hot, Honey?"

"Yes, aren't you too hot?"

"Yes," she smiled.

"Well....we might as well be hot together..."

"Yes," she smiled.

He swept her off her feet in a move he had practiced on her a hundred different times and she reached out to close the
refrigerator doors. As he carried her through the dining room he asked, "What's wrong with the air conditioning?"

Ann tossed her head back, laughing that laugh that made him love her, "Nothing, Honey. Absolutely nothing."

I copy/pasted this from Composer...never done that before, so I hope no screwy formatting thing happens. See-ya.

Jack Beslanwitch Thu Mar 1 18:05:23 PST 2001

Now this is weird. The bottom of the Notebook seems to have disappeared. Wonder if the earthquake did more strangeness than I thought. At any rate, I have added back the ability to leave messages here.

Rob Taylor Thu Mar 1 16:00:49 PST 2001

I was appraoched to write a technical book regarding programming. They told me they were in need of authors. I agreed and I filled out a proposal and also submitted a sample chapter. After I handed the materials in I called the company to check on my status. They informed me that my book was being read by another author who had already written a book on the same topic gor them to make sure there was not a conflict.

This seems very odd to me.
Why would a publisher send my material to another author who is writing on the same topic? Why would they want mutiple books on the same topic?
Has anyone had this happen? Is this common?
Should I be concerned the first author is going to steal my ideas?



Eddie French Thu Mar 1 15:59:38 PST 2001

The average price of a house around here is $128,000.00
(Assuming an exchange rate of 1.6)
Mind you, when I was in Florida I filled up a huge car for only $17.00
Over here it costs about £50.00 to fill up.($7.34 per Gallon)
A packet of Cigs cost £7.00 (Thats a pack of 20 cigs, not a carton of 200.)
You earn more than us too!

Jerry Thu Mar 1 15:25:21 PST 2001

Ok all that and the real reason I stopped by today was to mention to those of you who are studying how to build a web page, there is a program out there called Teleport pro - it will go to any webpage you point it to, and download all the files at that site. You can in essance, steal an entire web site, to check out how they did it. Looking at how a web page is designed is a great way to learn. It also will go to any site you tell it, and download any files matching your search criteria, such as *.m3 or *.zip so if you wanted to automaticly download a bunch of files from a site, all you have to do is point to the main site, and tell it what kind of files to look for, and it will do all the work for you .


Jerry Thu Mar 1 15:16:10 PST 2001

Kru - around here, we take care of the preditors, using a .410 shotgun, or .22 LR rifle. The dogs on the place usually let the farmer and his family know when a skunk, or badger, or coyote comes into the yard. Most farm boys know how to hit a skunk at 40 yards, and avoid the spray at night with one or two dogs yaping beside him. We also use lots of chicken wire and herd the chickens into the coup for the night, the chicken wire around the coup allows the chickens to get some air without being taken by preditors.

Hallee, has your brother ever thought of advertising his services, you know "FOR ONLY SEVENTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS, I WILL AGREE NOT TO VISIT YOUR STATE FOR THE NEXT THREE MONTHS"

Just a thought.

You know I used to think rain followed me. When I got back from Nam, I was stationed at Fort Lewis, and being Washington, it rained every day, excpt those days when it snowed. Well when we got the word that we were being sent to Fort Bliss Texas, in the middle of the deseart, we were overjoyed, believing that finally our skin would loose those wrinkles that seemed permanent from the exposure to so much rain. Well when we got there, it rained for about two weeks, first time in the memory of many that it rained so many days in a row. There was flooding, evacuation of many of the folks who lived on the Reo Grand river, our unit was called to help evacuate. Ok, so after a few months it did dry out. When I moved home, this part of the state had been in a drought for several years. The lakes had dried up, rivers stopped flowing, and what little water was left turned staggnant. When we moved back the rain followed. After three months, the lakes were filled, the rivers flowed and the farmers were in the bars cursing the rain because they couldn't get into the fields. This followed us when we moved north to New Rockford, Devils Lake, both a lake and a city north of us was rather small, you could occasionaly get a view of it off in the distance from the highway that seperated the east side and the west side. Just before we moved, we drove up to what was left of the city. The highway that used to run between the sides of the lake was now completely covered, only evidence that it ever existed was the light polls that used to eluminate the one bridge that was in the middle of the highway, and allowed rain water to flow. The small town of Minnewalken was in danger of being flooded by the now growing lake, it used to be twelve miles from the water, now they built dikes to keep back the encroching lake, another small town north of there was completely evacuated because the lake was flowing down its main street. This is all true. Anyhow since I moved home, nothing has stopped the lake, it is still growing and we haven't seen any real increase in the rainfall here. The moisture has been just right for the crops and the farmers are all happy. I guess the curse wears off after a few years. Maybe I should have charged????


Mark Thu Mar 1 14:59:38 PST 2001

HALLEE -- Your brother, has he thought of paying for all that?

Jerry Thu Mar 1 14:58:05 PST 2001

Eddy Could be the same, maybe I was thinking about anthrax, I was quite young when we were farmers.

Around here if a farmer could get $40.00 for a hog, he would have been very happy to have the fever hit, as last year hogs were selling for about fifteen bucks on the hoof, many complained that the farmer got less for the whole hog then the store got for two hams. Things have gone up a bit since then though, or at least I think so, my in-laws haven't been complaining as much since anyhow.

When I was young, my father and his five brothers all owned farms, when I was about 12 if I remember right, we moved to town, this followed two of dads brothers who sold out and moved first. It wasn't but a couple of years that all his brothers sold out and moved to town. Mom's sisters, however were married to farmers, some of those farms are still owned by the families, but are now up for sale too. It seems that if a farmer around here did not buy out his neighbors as they went under then he was doomed to go the same way. My wife's brother still lives on their family farm, but both he and his wife both work in town to be able to afford to live, very sad. When he was willed the farm, following their mothers death, it was debt free, now it is mortgaged to the hilt, and in danger of failing. Now one would expect that he mortgaged the property to buy new equipment, but this is not the case, he got the loans just to be able to live, his equipment is all old, many of the tractors are the same ones his father had many years ago. The booming economy that everyone was speaking so highly these past eight years never seemed to hit here, our economy just kept getting worse. That is why, I guess nobody around here was too much in love with former President Clinton. Many here abouts speak of the BIG LIE put out by the government, about the great economy, as they have never seen a bit of it, and don't believe it ever existed. That probably explains why both Dakota's voted for President Bush by over 60% despite the fact that most farmers are democrats.

Interestingly one can still purchase a nice three bedroom home using a credit card, should one desire. I paid eleven thousand dollars for the home we live in, my daughter recently bought her first home, a two story two bedroom home on a corner lot, surrounded by trees and bushes in a nice neighborhood for one thousand dollars.


Kru Thu Mar 1 14:48:34 PST 2001

Jerry – With no trees how do they keep their birds safe from predators? Even with trees here in Va. we had to get a special dog. Another dog story if anyone is interested. We buy a whole calf about once a year. We get it just as it is being weaned about 600 lbs. That way we get it before it gets all that stuff we don’t want at the feedlots and it is still tender and lean. Oh, and very tasty. Our butcher doesn’t can any, I don’t think, I’ll ask next time. If I had more freezer space I would get a pig too. We get more eggs than we can consume, give them away, feed them to the dogs, if I find an abandoned nest I practice throwing at trees.
Eddie – Those prions are really scary things. Our government says we are safe over here but I am glad I get my beef before it goes to a feedlot.

Gabe Gabekk@aol Thu Mar 1 14:16:50 PST 2001

Blargh, I am sick of Ikea. I have to go out tongiht, and buy myself one of those huge ass black CD holders that take up a lot of room. Let me start a bit before that: I went to Ikea a few days a go, and, being the trendy person I am, stocked up on simplistic modern useless gimiucs, such as an extra bookshelf (Well, my old one if full, but...), a few pots for plants, a 10 dollar eisel named "frankutin," and a CD rakc named Jimmy. Now himmy looked very nice in the store, sitting up on a podium, all painted purple, with a metal-engraved card next to him (Possibly her) bragging that Jimmy can hold 183 CDS, can fit anywhere, can be dissassabled easily, and other neato features. I bought it home, and tried to assemble it. Turns out Jimmy was short a few screws. Seriously, it was supposed to come with 8 wooden pegs. It came with four. I thought "fine, I just wont put on the sides, and hope the cds wont fall." Turns out they did, all over the floor. At two am for some reason. In the morning, I picked up all of the CDs. When I got home from school today, guess what? All over the floor. Lets just say Jimmy better like fire, becuase oak is great for burning. And now I must depart for my generic music store to buy a huge CD rack, all because some guy in sweeden thought it would be funny to make us americans suffer, just a little bit.

Eddie French Thu Mar 1 13:59:55 PST 2001

We had a big outbreak of 'Swine Fever' last year over here. There is no cure.
Foot and Mouth cannot be the same as the Hoof and Mouth you mentioned as there is no vaccination for it. The only treatment is to slaughter and burn. Then all movement to and from infected areas has to be strictly controlled. Affected farms have to be thoroughly cleaned and disinfected and livestock is barred for about six months. This is really the killer. Government compensates for the loss of livestock IE: around £40.00 per pig £30.00 per sheep £200.00 per cow. Nobody compensates for the six months of zero income, zero business. Then the farm has to be re-stocked at the going rate (Six months on from the valuation date)
It is a sad time for the rural areas.

Jerry Thu Mar 1 13:35:56 PST 2001

Oh, RICHARD - forgot to mention, we also have that dreaded disease, but we call it hoof and mouth disease. Same thing? I think so. It seems to be a thing of the past in the Dakota's since the farmers have been vaccinating for it since my dad farmed (He quit farming in 1968). Another illness that used to hit livestock around here was Hog Colora, I recall when dad's hogs came down with it, they all had to be destroyed, then burned. The hog barn was also set aflame, and burned to the ground. It was several years until dad had any more hogs on the farm. Funny, I was so very young when they came and killed the hogs, but I remember it so well, that and the fire that burned the bodies, and the barn. It must have been frightening to me, I couldn't have been much older then six or seven.

In contrast, this morning when I checked (checqued?) my email, there was an unfamiliar name attached to one of them. I opened it up, and after reading it several times, I remembered the fellow. I used to know him back in Nam.

We were with different units, but became friends from a chance meeting when both of us were drowning our sorrows over a beer at the House of Jacks.

Funny how those things worked, it had to have been in 1970 that I last saw him, yet he recognized my name at They started a thing a few months ago where you could register by military unit and I figured what the heck, my name was already out there for my HS and College classmates anyhow.


Jerry Thu Mar 1 12:47:17 PST 2001

Richard - it may be a bastardized version of English, but it is our version. We can tell what is meant by the context, as well as you can by the spelling, and after all they are both pronounced check right? So why spell it differently. No I am not here to start another American revolution or anything, but if you Brits think you can tax our checks . . .

Kru - we buy our chickens from the Hooterites who have a colony a couple hundred miles from here. They sell them in the winter when they can be transported to us and stay frozen in the box of their farm trucks. You are so right, those chickens taste so much better then the ones you buy in the store. My sister-in-law also brings us a few down when we run low, they raise them on the farm, much the same as in your shorty, except there are so few trees around here for them to sit in. She also furnishes us with eggs when they are laying, again so much better then those we buy up town.

We buy them by the case of 12, and keep them in the deep freeze along with the half beef we buy every winter. This offers us a bit of variety over the months, we even get some pork when we can find a buy on it. Besides that my sister-in-law and brother-in-law also give us a part of their beef when they butcher, usually hamburger and canned beef. Gotta love that canned beef, great stuff over bread.


howard Thu Mar 1 12:44:47 PST 2001

RICHARD III -- Why the redundant repetition? Chocolate is survival gear!

Debra Thu Mar 1 12:37:05 PST 2001


What do you mean by plagerism?


Richard the 3rd Thu Mar 1 12:02:03 PST 2001

Compass - check!
Rope - check!
Vital provisions - check!
Check - check! Eh? Check check? Shouldn't that be Cheque check?


Water - check
Mobile phone - check
Tent - check
Signal flares - check
Survival gear - check
Chocolate - CHECK!

Um, that's not a shorty but I have to write a fictional SW newscast for my internet clubs weekly 'Outer Rim War' tournament, and I also have to work out words I shall embarass myself with over the PA.

Earthqaukes... we just get rain. Rain and snow. In fact we're buried in snow... and Foot & Mouth Disease is now causing us to raze livestock... and my school seems to be about the only one that hasn't closed...

Glad to see no one was harmed - I saw film of the earthquake on the news.

Kru Thu Mar 1 10:49:14 PST 2001

Hi Group,
Here is my Short Shorty on food:

Have you ever eaten this thing they are calling free range or pastured chicken? I have. I would recommend that you give it a try some day. I won’t eat any other kind of chicken any more. That other stuff that they sell in stores and restaurants is just not the same thing. They call it “chicken” and I suppose it was a bird but it doesn’t taste at all the same and the texture is different too. It doesn’t feel right in my mouth when I chew it. I’m retired now and raise all my own chicken, ducks and geese. I like this on several levels. It keeps me somewhat active, I eat a much better quality and cleaner food and the birds are just plain funny to watch. The roosters form harems and the hens like to cheat, very funny stuff, maybe someday I will write a short shorty on that. Some of them are real pretty too. The other thing that I like is they are not fed the commercial chicken feed with antibiotics and steroids to boost their growth. My birds eat corn, oats, milo, millet, barley and bugs. I don’t feed any marigold petals yet some of my birds have that pretty yellow skin. I think that has to do with the breed of chicken, not the diet. Some people have red hair, do you suppose that is because the eat beets? My birds eat a lot of bugs. I think there are few sights funnier than watching three chickens chasing one bug through the woods, it is right up there with the Marx brothers. They really are dinosaurs in miniature.
In a commercial chicken raising operation the birds are all raised in this large enclosed barn that was cleaned before they were put in as very young chicks and it will be cleaned again after they are on their way to the slaughterhouse. With the hormone and steroid enhanced feed that takes about 12 weeks. In the meantime the birds scratch around the bedding and feed, they poop, they drop feathers, some die and lie there and what isn’t eaten gets walked on and buried in the mess. All this mess and all these birds milling about and scratching around and flapping wings like chickens do raises this fecal dust into the air that all the birds then breathe. That’s why some die and why they all need antibiotics. Then when they are grown and gone they shovel it all out, all the feces, spilled feed, feathers, dead birds and haul it away to be ground up, cooked and used as cattle feed. Isn’t that amazing?
Then the birds go to a commercial slaughterhouse. What happens there is not pretty either. The birds are hooked, still alive, onto a conveyer belt type thing and the moving belt carries them through various stages of killing, gutting, feather plucking, washing and finally soaking in water to chill the meat and so the tissue can gain water weight before they are packaged and sent out to consumers. I am concerned about this water that they soak in because many birds are soaked together in a batch. Others have called this water fecal soup because the process of mechanically removing the entrails often breaks the intestines and the contents then get all over that particular bird. But then that bird with the fecal material splashed on and in it is soaked in the same water with other birds and what ever was on one bird is now on all the birds in that batch. This is why the industry wants to irradiate all commercially processed chicken meat.
There is a seventy something Mennonite lady near here that butchers my birds. If I were a gambling man I would wager my home that her kitchen is a whole lot cleaner than any commercial slaughterhouse. Sometimes I have to kill them myself because that part is hard for her old hands since her husband died. I have been asked how I can do that? They look at me like some kind of monster with veins in my teeth. I think about the above and that is part of how. Also the killing is done quickly and humanely, unlike what I describe above. But the other part of how is that I realize that my chickens at least had a bird life before they were butchered. They chased bugs, they scratched through leaves, they breathed clean air, they fought with each other, some of them even had sex and they slept in trees. I think what I do is a whole lot more honest than those that go to the supermarket and buy “chicken” in plastic packages and pretend that nothing suffers and nothing dies.
If you eat chicken and have never had free range or pastured chicken, you should give it a try. It is lower in fat, better nutrition and tastes wonderful. I’m sure there is a small farm owner near you that would love to have your business. Honesty and openness dictates that tell you; while I make a chicken that tastes better and is better for you I can’t do it for less than the commercial chicken producers. I think it is a better way to eat, but it’s not cheaper. I should also put a disclaimer in here that I only raise birds for my own and my family’s consumption and do not sell any chicken or other fowl products.

Kru Thu Mar 1 10:47:17 PST 2001

Hi Group,
Since we are telling dog stories, I have a few. I’ve had a lot of dogs in my life. I'm told I learned to walk hanging onto a collie. Let me tell you about Pete. Pete was a cream standard poodle. I was 17 and wanted to be a dog trainer and had trained Pete to compete in AKC obedience trials. Pete was very good on all the active parts of an obedience trial but he hated the stays. He had to sit and stay for one minute and down and stay for three minutes. After months of drilling for this he clearly understood what he was supposed to do but he also had figured out that the rules of the show ring are that the owner cannot correct the dog without penalty in the ring. We got to the group stay part of the trial and Pete and I were in the lead with the highest score. All he had to do was ace the stays and we would win the show. We went into the ring for the “Sit Stay,” lined up with the other dogs and at the command from the judge we all left our dogs with a loud “Stay” and walked to the other side of the ring. As I got to the other side of the ring I turned and looked back at Pete. He was looking all around the ring, he was not looking at me, this was not good. He was looking at the spectators and the other dogs, his nose was checking everything out. But, it was only one minute and I got back to him before he moved. I managed to sneak in a little extra roughness on his collar to get his attention between exercises that the judge didn’t see. So far, so good, now for the “Down Stay.” At the word from the judge we all put our dogs in the down position and once again gave the “Stay” command and walked across the ring. When I got to the other side of the ring it was the same story. Pete’s attention was everywhere but on me. But he knew he was supposed to remain in the down position. He was stretching his neck to sniff the other dogs. Remaining in the down position he crawled out to the middle of the ring to sniff a spot where a previous competitor had fouled the ring and gotten himself disqualified. The mess was cleaned up but the scent lingered. Next he crawled behind the dog next to him and started to sniff his butt. The dog objected to this and tried to get away. Pete then crawled to the next dog and started to sniff this butt. He must have liked this smell because he sort of bumped this dogs butt to the point that the dog got up and walked away. With a hand signal the owner called his dog and Pete crawled to the next in line and got that dog to break the stay too only this dog did not return to the owner instead started checking out the other dogs in line. By now dogs are walking all over the ring, the other owners are all glaring at me and the spectators are howling. There was Pete, still in the down position crawling to the next dog when the judge said; “Everyone return to your dogs.” When we all got back in line again the judge excused me from the ring and did the whole exercise all over with the remaining dogs. Pete never did get that CD title and I never became a dog trainer.

howard Thu Mar 1 09:14:45 PST 2001

HALLEE -- Please let us know your brother's whereabouts I want to either ne there with a camera, or somewhere else with a survival kit! :-)

SASQUATCH -- I'm glad to see you're okay. Was it as frightening in the forest as they say it was in the city? And was this the quake you predicted back in January? And if so, can you tell us more about the next one? Where? When?
You never did really answer my question about how you sense them coming. Do you hear them or feel them? We're going to have to start calling you "Stormcrow" if you keep bring us bad news, just like Gandalf!

Allein Thu Mar 1 07:37:00 PST 2001

Barnabas - Nope, because I remember the energizer bunny. :)

Teekay - I was a little freaked but I'm okay now. I was mainly thinking "what the hell" when it happened. I'm surprised that my school didn't have any damage because it's so old.


Heather Thu Mar 1 06:08:11 PST 2001

Hallee: Big hint: Don't go anywhere with your brother, but give him bungee cords, first aid kits, life preservers and richter scales as birthday and Christmas gifts.

Hop: 'Cheque' is the British spelling (used in Canada and probably most of Europe), 'check' is the American spelling; both meaning a little piece of paper that signifies money, and may bounce if left unattended.


sasquatch Thu Mar 1 05:58:55 PST 2001

Hello persons i sasquatch am also okay as well. this was a harder thing to hear as it was far below but we indeed heard it. i can sense also that this is not the last but another is to come before too long but not in the same place. there will be more here also but not so large. i can feel there is one building far to eastward between here and the big ocean. there was one in that place in sasquatch great great grandfather memory and another is to come. i fear for humans persons in that place. i do not know why we feel this sense and humans persons can not. made differently i know. but Yeti memory has these things and i can not question. Rachel person i sasquatch am near and will hope for good welcome for new cub. no is not cub as you call is baby i must remember that. he is honored. i must go.

Hallee Thu Mar 1 01:47:05 PST 2001

ALLEIN: Good to see you!

BEN: You, too - somehow, I didn't know where you were - where are you?

HOP: I believe VIV was referring to the idea that sexual activities can help a woman start labor.

Okay - gone again.

Hallee Thu Mar 1 01:42:45 PST 2001

Speaking of surviving national disasters:

My older brother has seen everything. In 1980, we were in Washington when Mt. St. Helens errupted, and were outside playing football when it happened. Saw the big mushroom cloud in the distance. Kinda trippy when you don't know what it is. He was in Ft. Walton Beach, FL, when Hurricane Elena hit. He was in upstate New York when the worst ice storm in recorded history hit. He was in San Fransisco in (91 or 92) when that bad earthquake hit. He was in South Central L.A. during the riots and had to go through the riots to get to the USC campus for safety. And he was in Miami with me when Hurricane Andrew hit. It's weird.

Got an email from my grandparents last night - they're fine. Their first thought was Mt. St. Helens, which was a little scary for them considering they live like 10 miles from it, but otherwise fine.

Okay - going to start chapter 9. I'll try to come up with something about food.


Dialect tip of the hour Thu Mar 1 01:31:17 PST 2001

Pronunciation-swa-co-u (U is not pronounced "you" but sounds like something between "o" and
Literally: Mountain tortoise I believe

Meaning: Implies that someone is country bumpkin, from the rural areas and completely

Now I'm going to hide in case some rural person starts attacking me.

Barnabas "Hop" Thu Mar 1 01:30:14 PST 2001

I'm using Corel word perfect internet publisher mode and copying and pasting the html version of it into
the box for the first time. If it doesn't work please forgive me.

I'm joining the Singapore Auckland Association or something like that. When they asked for the $5
membership fee I kind of froze, something short-circuited in my brain. I can't even remember what
happened after that but I managed to walk away with them still smiling. It's weird, I have this thing
about money, I hate it because of what it represents and it kind of shocks me when people ask for
cash. Even when buying things I go through pangs of worry.

I realised there was no writer's group/club in the University so I decided to start one, something kind of
like this place.

Oh good, the archive is up, now I can read those posts I missed a few days back.

For some strange reason I don't have a food shorty.

Well it's good to see everyone is safe and accounted for.


I hope you don't mind if I do take a few ideas from this place, it may even become plagiarism so I hope
you will grant me the right to copy just in case.


Have you ever heard of on-line magazines? I can recommend a few if you like which are free, I'm not
saying their good but they are free...

Shouldn't that be cheque?

Did I mention free on-line magazines?

Wooden houses when you go to school would make you one of two types of people

a) old (ermm...senior) person b) Swakoo (ermm...rural) person.


Just a note, I believe the hawkers in Thailand will provide a bit of lemon or lime in the plate so use that
first on the curry, chili or whatever they call it.

I going to have to update my address book.


Relations... I know the feeling. Living in another country then returning to see them after several years,
you feel quite different. They treat you differently as well. I'm a bit uncomfortable about that since I still
remember before I moved.

Apparently, you're still the shorty-night-theme-decider (hopefully that's grammatically right). I didn't
even plan the coup, it was all Jon's idea, I'm just as shocked as you are.

What is "skin deep" about anyway?

Speaking of modern racism, I'm thinking of writing a novel on it (planned a decade or two in the future,
I'm still working on Psiforce).


That reminds me, I never realised you are the President of the notebook

Carolyn loveless

Hello. (My customary greeting by the way). I'm just wondering if your surname really is "loveless" and
if you're going to be hanging around the notebook or you are returning. I'm fairly new myself.


Someone mentioned to Richard and me that you can change the spell checker from American to
British. I realised that a long time ago. The only trouble is I don't have the British spell-checking
dictionary. I'm going to have to look around a bit.

Website owners

Visited a few of your places. Check your guests books


Drill Sargent cum medic to Richard as he patches him up "Hang in there son, one day you'll be the one
left standing."

School was a horrendous where ever I went. I just don't get along well with certain aspects. If it isn't
one thing (tough homework) it's something else (personality clashes).

Medic to Richard handing him two white pills. " Take these spell-checking pills twice for a month.
You'll need them."


Hello. I'm new.


Just how many people have I not met?


"Anyway, that's what a good Greek Doctor told me the day before I gave birth to my youngest.)
Turned out that was the last time we were alone in bed together for that also was a nice
thing. "

Ermm... hmmm the above is kind of confusing.


Yeah! More dialect tips!


Shouldn't that be duracell? I think Energiser was "Never say die!"

Heather Thu Mar 1 00:39:52 PST 2001

Never been through a typhoon, or a tornado (though a small one swept through the South end of town last year, we didn't get any sufficient winds at our end of town), or an earthquake. I've had a few floods in the basement, does that count? And some wicked thunderstorms. I guess living on the Canadian Shield really does protect us from many of those things; plus the weather here never gets hot and moist enough for typhoons; usually very few tornadoes ever touch down around here either. Most of the time we just get snow squalls or the occasional bout of freezing rain. Nowhere with enough water or earth shaking for a tsunami...

Glad that Jack and Allein and Tina and Ben all survived the quake with ease.

I had a dog for about a month at one time. A friend had given him to me when she moved out West and couldn't take him with her on the train. He was a great dog, protected me with his life, actually. I think about him from time to time and someday I'll find a pup that reminds me of him and I'll just have to become a doggie person.
Until then the closest thing is... never mind! *blush*


Happy Birthday to Sebastian, Happy Birthday to you....

Jerry Wed Feb 28 21:34:39 PST 2001

So ok then I was a day off, so let me be the first to post my food shorty. God I hate it when I do that! Thats what I get for not paying attention I guess. One of the wife's friends dropped by to visit this morning. The wife was at works, and I know she knew that. She just happened to have this computer in the back seat of her car that was misbehaving. It refused to print, could I just take a peek at it if she brought it in the house. Now how could I refuse such a request so I told her to go ahead, expecting a laptop or something. No, it was an old Gateway 2000 486SX 25, and she brought the printer too! Well I told her to check back in a few hours and I would see if I could get it printing again. I took it apart and vacuumed the dirt out, (it was so full of dust I couldn't see the works!) Having cleaned it, I got the printer working, and just for good measure, I checked my jar of discarded processors and found an old DX2-50 chip that I dropped in it, worked wonders on the little machine. She picked it up this afternoon, before the wife got home from work. Makes one wonder if she wanted to see the wife?

Dogs - We used to have a blue healer, I think I mentioned her once before, the one I was ordered to shoot when I first pinned on the badge, anyhow several years later when I was working for a different PD, I took my partner and his family up to a fabulous area called the cave hills. (Need I say they were great big hills filled with caves? na) Anyhow he had a two year old son, who was always running. Our dog kept a close eye on him, even when we didn't, and after awhile, as we were taking a break at a picnic bench, enjoying the fantastic view, great weather and fresh air, my partner's wife let out a scream - their son was running straight for a cliff, and should he fall off it was several hundred feet to the ground. Our dog was closest, simply ran in front of him and stopped, the boy was kind of shocked, but he stopped, had he ran another five feet he would have been dead, but the dog came through. My partner took one of her pup

(the rest seems to have disappeared)

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