Heather Sun Apr 15 23:40:09 PDT 2001

I forgot the glove compartment. But it's ok - mine is jammed shut!
So I don't know what's in it either.

I am probably lucky. Whoever finally pries it open will not be.


Heather Sun Apr 15 23:37:09 PDT 2001

Next we describe, in humbling detail, the contents of our automobiles!!!

Here's my partial list: A gold, curly ribbon tied around a bunch of cinnamon sticks dangles from my mirror.

Front seats: Kleenex, a small bag of garbage, an empty Tim Horton's coffee cup, the snow scraper (haven't put it in the trunk yet) and me, driving.

In the ashtray: a tube of chapstick, sunglasses, three stones my kids gave me, a small pussywillow branch (sans pussywillows) and way at the back I'm sure there are a few empty wrappers from something-or-other

In the back seats (commonly the area the kids step on, and includes under the front seats where we can't reach):
maps of all sizes and places - folded by an array of map-abusive people, a pair of pliers (where, what?) and a snap-on screwdriver (also unknown as to the origin or necessity)
dinky cars and barbie shoes
five pounds of gravel
three pounds of dead grass (last season's)
four kilos of mud
fifteen kilos of cookie and cracker crumbs
two ounces unknown debris

Trunk: two wool blankets
car jacks
extra gas can (empty, of course)
jumper cables
body bag (just kidding. Wanted to see if you were paying attention)
that's it! Oh, there are some leaves and some odd bits of string... that blue ikea string they give out for free with which to tie your new furniture to your dust-encrusted car...

well, that was JUST THE INSIDE.


Heather Sun Apr 15 23:24:10 PDT 2001

Purse contents? Well, all right...

*one cell phone, probably needing to be recharged
*my wallet (in it? Money, credit and bank cards, library card, movie rental card, insurance and Driver's license, health cards (mine and the kids'), photos of the kids and my husband, a little tag from our wedding momentos, and Ikea coupon, three receipts, a shopping list, and one kite string thingy, used for attaching the line to the kite.)
*one tube of 'Maple Treat' bodyshop lipstick
*one container of 'Lava' lipgloss
*one tube of hemp chapstick from 'Healthy's'
*four pens
*bank book in one intact plastic case (WOW)
*an old envelope with some 'jottings' for Haven on it
*feminine products (the kind that utilize the 'folding lawnchair' concept)
*two keychains my daughter made for me with beads, but they are too delicate to use
*my work keys, which have a very cool miniature locking-blade knife on the ring for cutting cardboard boxes open during the flattening process - very intricate surgery, I am telling you!

That's it. Hey, it's only a small handbag.
If I were to carry anything larger, it would need wheels and some form of steering.

Happy Easter!


Teekay Sun Apr 15 22:26:28 PDT 2001

Hi All,

CHRISTI: No kidding!!!! What a coincidence. Well that bear seems very happy now. What a sad thing that he lost his mate.
It's a great set up they have. hubby reckons he wouldn't mind moving in there :-)

ROSEMARY: I don't think my outside matches my insides. Friends have since told me that they thought me to be aloof, organized, calm and efficient. One friend even used the word elegant?!?!? She's a bit of a bohemian so I'm not quite sure what her standards for elegance are, but I took it as a compliment.
I however would not use any of those words to describe myself. Isn't it strange the picture we have of ourselves compared to the way other people see us?
The people I meet who have become friends and have been privy to the inner me would probably no longer use those words to describe me either :-)
Quirky? I love that you think I'm quirky :-)

RHODA: Don't you dare even consider keeping your opinions to yourself!

MARY: GET OUTA HERE! Do you have the chocolate lip-liner?

HOWARD: Hyuk hyuk hyuk. You men! Velcro lipstick indeed. Now why would you want that??? As if we didn't know :-)
Just think of all the wisdom you would miss out on.

JERRY: Gosh, every time you put on a fresh pair of jeans it'd be like moving house :-) hyuk hyuk.

Not much happening today. The sun's shining. Hubby's chopping up some wood in preparation for those cold night that are just around the corner with 2 year old acting as supervisor, and the girls are doing 'their thing'.

Chapter 1 is in the process of being put on the computer. Can't believe how involved this process is. it goes a bit like this.
Write first draft.
When complete transfer to fresh notebook and do a bit of editing at the same time.
Next, transfer to computer making yet more changes.
After I have it on computer I'll print it out, stick it away for a couple of days while continuing writing the rest of it, and then I'll come back to it and re edit.
Depending on the shape the rest of the story takes, chapter 1 may stay the same or do a complete metamorphosis.
I'm new at this so right now it's totally guess work and trying to find the method that suits me best.
This seems to be working so far.


Jerry Sun Apr 15 21:24:12 PDT 2001

You know it is interesting reading this book about Tim McVeigh. So far, I am more then half way through with the book, and have yet to get to the part where he begins his plans for the bombing, but I am a bit amazed that his thinking and actions are so familiar to me. Not that I have done any of the things he did, well I did do some I used to show guns at gun shows, but that I knew so very many folks in the gun trade that behave exactly like he was. They read the same seperatist literature, they speak of the illegality of the money, the hatred they have for the Federal government, and the rest, he would have fit right in with very many of my good gun trading friends. Maybe that's why I gave up on the gun trade.

I am glad that I did.


Jerry Sun Apr 15 21:05:28 PDT 2001

Ok, well this is my second attempt, I had my pocket contents counted out and listed, then hit control something or another, and it went the way of the do-do bird. Oh well here it is again:

Key ring with ten keys, a nail clippers and a single AAA kel-light the other pocket is my comb, back pocket has my wallet with several different insurance keys (VA Medicare, Dental care and Workers Comp) - three credit cards - WOW $64.00 (I should check more often, thought I was broke) the directions for six handed pinochle (hand printed on a small sheet of paper) several other pieces of paper with things I wanted to remember once, but have forgotten what I wanted them for. NRA membership card - American Legion Membership card - expired Lions Membership card. (No wonder I sit on a slant). Oh and in the summer, I carry one of those spray bottles of hay fever medicine. Also have one of those little pocket knives with a seriated blade, I use to clean my fingernails, and open the occasional package or letter. Also (I guess this counts) I wear a leather man tool on my belt, it is one of those combo - pliers, knife, three screwdriver, wire cutter thingies that we gadget lover guys love to carry.

(See I can make a short story out of pocket lint)

We had a WONDERFUL Easter at mom's I was so happy both my kids and my grand daughter made the trip, as well as my favorite niece (The one I helped raise, and walked down the isle when she married) and her family made the trip. Everyone had a super time playing pinochle (I got out of cards today, and sat in the living room visiting with my nieces husband, who has been a very good friend since we met long before they wed).

Hope you all had a great Easter Weekend too.


howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Sun Apr 15 20:46:19 PDT 2001

MARY (and TEEKAY) -- Suede lipstick? I'm holding out for VELCRO !! :-)

howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Sun Apr 15 20:01:23 PDT 2001

HOP -- Can you define for me "interfering with the state?" And what is meant by "denouncing the state?" Does the state need to maintain so strict a control that they do so by arresting, incarcerating, beating, torturing, inflicting forced labor, on peaceful followers of God? I have heard too many stories of these things to dismiss them as untruth. I have Chinese Christian friends who still have family and friends in mainland China, and they have told me of the hardships there, the persecution, the violations of basic human rights.
No, they do not suppress religion in China, as long as it is the prescribed, empty ritual established and approved by the state. A simple prayer meeting in a house church is grounds for the arrest of its pastor, confiscation of its materials, and punishment of its members. Yet they continue to meet. Why is that? Could there be a power greater than the state? Could it be that these have found a Truth that transcends the state? A Truth that in fact mandates obedience to the state in all matters except those that contradict or attempt to obviate that truth? Forced abortion is an example of contradiction of the teachings of that truth.
Why does the state fear that truth?

Mary notdotcalm@yahoo.com Sun Apr 15 19:52:32 PDT 2001

Had a very fine Easter today. Hope you all did too.

TEEKAY: I wear Suede lipstick too! Gotta love MK.

Rhoda rfort@familynet.net Sun Apr 15 19:28:03 PDT 2001


It was never my intention to cast slurs upon the Chinese people or Chinese culture. I went to graduate school with several Chinese individuals, most of whom would have agreed with some aspects of my post. But most of these individuals were from Taiwan or from Hong Kong, and many had family who had to escape from mainline China. There are Chinese people living all over the world, and not all of them love the government in Bejing any more than I do.

Perhaps you are right in that the extensive trade between China and the US is a good thing. If the trade makes the Chinese people more free then, I am all for it.

What is occuring in China is a power play in the governing body. The military build-up and the current posturing is means for the hard liners to win public support. There are other people in high positions in China who would currently not play the hard line now taken. I root for these voices of reason.

China's goal is not to destroy the United States or take any of its territory. I believe the goal of China is to remove American influence from the far east--a bad thing at this point in time.

Anyway, I will not apologize for any of my comments involving the United States plane forced to land on Chinese territory. I am only happy that for now it worked out well for the 24 crew members. I am also glad that the United States did not have to make threats or did not have to resort to any desperate measures.

You really had to read a lot in these posts to see any racism. I suppose I will be forced to continue to offend you and Ben, or else I will just have to keep my opinions to myself. If I have to be careful not to offend then we both lose something and our relationship will never be anything but formal and shallow. Perhaps that is the best we can do, but I would like better.


Jerry Sun Apr 15 18:57:29 PDT 2001

Hop - I think it was said right when it was said that we don't like the government in China. Personally, I have a great respect for the Chinese people. They were civilized way back when my ancestors were hanging the severed heads of horses in trees to please their pagan gods. The Chinese have brought so much to this world, but at this time their government imposes such restrictions on human rights, that we freedom loving Americans can but gasp at such things. You see, we are free, and we love that freedom more then anything in this world.

You speak of Vietnam, I would truely like to return and tour that nation, however I will hold off until their government gives up it's communist ties, which I expect to happen soon. As far as my opnion when I was there, I felt that the citizans of the South realy didn't much care who ruled them, so long as they could live in peace. I saw our fight there as a horrid waste of human lives on all sides, and thought it a mistake of our government. Those citizens of the US who were forced to serve there, most draftees did not fight for their country, or the freedom of the South, they fought to keep from being killed, and to keep their buddies from being killed by the enemy. It was that plain and simple, and I think that is the case in most wars, at least for the soldier who is doing the fighting.

As far as trade with Cuba, until just last year, it was illegal for an American Citizen to even visit Cuba. The Cuban's still drive those old cars of the 1950's imported from America before the Communist revolution. As of now, there is no trade with China, but the law has let up a bit to allow our journalists to enter that island nation to report on the situation there, and those of Cuban Extraction, are allowed to visit their relatives. As you might know the US has maintained a military base on the Island of Cuba, which was leased to the US for 100 years by the former government of Cuba, which has been a thorn in Castor's side since his takeover. Another misinformation, the US cut off trade with South Africa in the late 60's based on their human rights violations. This is very apparent to car lovers here in the US as most of the Chrome imported to the US came from South Africa, so the Chrome bumpers that adorned our cars from the earliest Model T's to the cars of the early 60's suddenly lacked this buitiful shiny bumpers, and trim. The interior of the cars likewise suffered from lack of chrome.

Yes our government had made mistakes, and yes many of those mistakes were embarrassing, but we feel we have the best government that has ever existed in the world. We may be wrong, but many of us would have to have that fact proven.

Ben - just a note about Canada. Today at our Easter dinner, my sister who is the family historian was delighted to share her latest finding. My grand-mother's father was from Canada, we knew that, but the history of his family was discovered, it seems his family came to Canada very early in the history of North America, well before the American Revolution. They have traced his roots back to France in the mid 1600's and show his ancestors trip over and some of them served in the war of 1812 on the Canadian side. Until his generation they lived in Quebec, he was the first to come south to Michigan, then to the Dakota's in the early 1900's. So you see I do have roots in Canada, so I can't be all bad right?


Jack Beslanwitch jack@webwitch.com Sun Apr 15 18:55:44 PDT 2001

Hello everyone: just to give a heads up, in the next week I will be attempting to make the notebook script work on another server and then transfer location of the notebook to webwitch.com, probably. That is still up in the air. In part this is a money saving issue and part due to some rumors that there may be some potential problems with the existing ISP. This latter may not materialize, but it is better if the Notebook moves before something happens. I will keep you posted. Just back from Norwescon and truly terribly tired. Will get back to archiving, including the missing Notebook as soon as I am sure about the Notebook script and the new server. Take care.

SusanS susanshock@yahoo.com Sun Apr 15 18:13:43 PDT 2001

My purse is more like a suitcase. It's actually a handbag with a zipper. It's contents, three notebooks, one with a short story I'm working on, the other a novel I'm working on. A smaller notebook I use for ideas, poems, my work schedule, etc. A couple of bills. A small zippered bag with pens, a couple pairs of earings, lipstick, a few slips of paper with story ideas and poems, Also, a jar of tums, the book Stargate by Andre Norton, car keys, wallet, hairbrush, comb, small teddybear that fell of my keychain, pair of tweezers, a couple of emery boards, a couple of barrettes, rent receipt, small tube of orajel, and some loose change.

I managed to write a poem today. I write some good poetry when I'm depressed. Gotta go. The cat's trying to get into my file cabinets where I keep my writing. Maybe he thinks he can do better.

Hallee Sun Apr 15 16:31:39 PDT 2001

RHODA: Well said. ((hug))

Hallee halleec@aol.com Sun Apr 15 16:30:23 PDT 2001

HOP: I think, with the quick "skim" that I did to get caught up from my absence in the last couple of weeks, I don't believe there was as much "anti-Chinese" as much as there was "anti-Chinese government." And you must remember something, several months ago, the Chinese government either bought or stole nuclear weapons technology from the U.S. If I were the person in power, armed with that knowledge, I would make sure that I kept up the surveillence of a country that is politically our enemy. Just as I'm sure we are being surveilled (is that even a word?) by them. Our governments are enemies. I can't personally change that - and neither can you.

Americans tend to take a lot of freedoms for granted. Freedoms that the Chinese people don't even realize are being denied them. It shows in the your post - in the things you excuse in your post. Some of the things you mentioned as acceptable or even good things are incomprehensible to me.

No - the United States does not trade with Cuba. And, (I think - if I'm wrong - I'm sure someone will tell me) I think Cuba is not Communist, I think it's a dictatorship.

There are many, many things that need to be fixed in the United States government. However, the basic principal of human rights, of freedoms, is still upheld by the men and women who run the country. It was what our country was founded on, and if we want to get upset over the fact that another country is stomping down on human beings' rights - then that is our right - because we live in a free country.


Barnabas "Hop" humanarchives@hotmail.com Sun Apr 15 15:44:37 PDT 2001

You know, I'm not one for puns but all this talk about the Chinese has taken the spring out of my step/hop. Maybe I should change my name to limping.

For all you monster lovers out there, does anyone own a Jenny Haniver? It's a dried sting ray or skate preserved in such a way that it looks like a monster.

We understand. Take your time.

To be politically correct you really mean ethnicity not race in most of your post about race. See my previous post about the history of the idea of race to see why we should use ethnicity.

I personally do think the bit about being threatened by another species is true. Only in greater adversity will humanity join arms. Other wise we turn amongst our selves or force each other to turn amongst ourselves.

Truth is I think that by buying Chinese stuff you are actually making their working conditions better rather than worse. Of course I'm a government sympathiser. I mean think how difficult it must be to run such a country.

Have you been to the modern Vietnam? It's a great place to tour (or so I'm told).

Also, Vietnam was very controversial. The good guys weren't that good while the bad guys weren't that bad. It wasn't a clear cut war was it?

Isn't Cuba one of America's trade partners? Wait a minute, why aren't we criticising them? Aren't they still communist.
What about South Africa? America use to trade with it even though it was still operating under apartheid.

I noticed that the posts after the hostage situation had been resolved were a bit more level-headed and less emotionally charged.

Maybe the above came too late. The argument seems to have blown over already.

To be politically correct....

Ethnicity and race
Sorry to nitpick but the sooner we replace race with ethnicity who knows what the effects might be?

Glad someone around here is looking at the big picture about US and China. My ethnic pride almost collapsed under all that blind Anti-Chinese rhetoric.

In fact I'm more and more impressed by the amount of info you gave out regarding the problems China has had with controlling its peoples.

I'm not saying they're right but what I am saying is the Chinese have problems... a lot of problems to deal with.

Paralyzed by virtual hug. Can't move. Feeling dizzy.

About Easter
Easter is a great time for a family gathering but since we moved to NZ a few years ago we can't celebrate it with our family.

Now I'm hungry.

I too get the urge to write something really strongly at various times.

You might like to know that several political magazines (I can source them if you like) believe that when China says its defense budget is going up to modernise. According to my Politics professor, most of the Chinese soldiers wear tennis shoes! Also, the Chinese have never been expanisionists. Finally (to conclude this mini-lecture) if the US is so afraid of the Chinese (which is technologically very behind the times) think how afraid the Chinese must be of the US, the only Super power in the World!

I feel sad that so many Americans are anti-Chinese but without good reasons to back up their attitude.

I would usually be inclined to agree with the long-term idea of things, it's just a speck in the huge ocean of time but when people start making accusations and a lot of unbalanced arguments I tend to get really annoyed.

Okay, first of all China does not suppress religion unless it interferes with the state. Call it a quibble but as long as people don't start denouncing the state the state let's it go.
As for forced family reduction, you'd think it was a wise move if you have a country where a billion people lived and people still starved no matter what was happening.
Okay, so some suffer but life is getting better for the average Chinese citizen. China is slowly reducing its iron tight grip. Slowly, very slowly. I mean, private businesses like McDonald's and Coke are making their way in.

Note that China has a zero to negative inflation rate as well.

Thanks for the input, makes me feel so much better, being the only Chinese here is rather depressing at times.

Hello. I'm new too.

Russia and China
You will notice plenty of similarities between the former USSR and China. Remember that the USSR had reforms (just like China) to Westernise the place. The reforms brought change but hastened the fragmentation of the USSR. In the end the whole economy and people are suffering now. I suspect the Chinese seeing how reforms have wrecked Russia have decided to take the slow road to reform in case the same thing happens to them. They are introducing technology and the living standards are going up slowly but surely.

Rhoda rfort@familynet.net Sun Apr 15 15:03:11 PDT 2001


May you all know the blessings of Christ who lives today. Regardless of your religious persuasion, Christ died and rose for you.


Rosemary Sun Apr 15 12:10:07 PDT 2001

Another Hot Muggy day to all,
I hope the muggyness doesn't make it to your territory.

Love the muse application. I would almost swear a few of those came over my desk while I was working in an office.

Your highly efficient purse contents don't really fit your personality. Should be carrying more exotic and quirky things. But, I agree, anyone who wears Suede lipstick should keep lip moistureizer on hand. :.P

Loved those keesters. That was really neat.

Going out to mow the weeds.

Tina Sun Apr 15 10:57:40 PDT 2001

Happy Easter Everyone!

Regardless of your religous persuasions, use today to appreciate and enjoy your family and friends. Treat every day as a holiday, and every holiday as an opportunity to show your loved ones how much you love them. When they can no longer be with us, it's the love that remains.


Christi Sun Apr 15 10:13:58 PDT 2001

Teekay!!!!! One of your new polar bears is from our very zoo!!!!!!!!! Is that amazing or what??? Small world and all that.
Recently we got two new polar bear cubs at our zoo, and the large adult bear (I wish I could remember his name) was gone. They had a sign that said he would be going to Australia once the habitat was ready for him. He was very unhappy here because his mate had passed away and he developed this unhealthy, obsessive routine that he did day after day. It was terrible to see him like that.
It's wonderful news that he's now happy again! The zookeepers said that it was hoped he'd be happier there with his new mate, and it sounds as if it he is!!! Hoorah for Australia!

Hippity hoppity Easter everyone! Have a wonderful day with your families.


howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Sun Apr 15 09:43:19 PDT 2001


Hallee halleec@aol.com Sun Apr 15 04:59:43 PDT 2001

My purse:
2 pens and 1 felt tipped marker
my wallet (ID, 3 credit cards, library card, my health insurance card, Kaylee's helath insurance card, $200, game tokens for an arcade (? no idea)
a miniature swiss army knife
the budget from a board meeting folded up
my business card holder
the submission requirements of a literary agent, folded up
last week's paycheck
all of the W-2's and 1099's I need to use to do the taxes (tonight - ugh)
a pack of film developed from Kaylee's birthday
3 computer discs
a picture of me and my great-grandma who died last year
a playing card my husband laminated and gave to me 11 years ago when we were dating
My keys
Conan's keys (that's where they were - why did I have them?)

That's it - don't ask me to go through my briefcase - that's a chore I've decided needed to be done about a year ago.

ROSEMARY: Wow. (Hug)

BEN: Mayhap you oughta get your kids' pictures laminated, considering what you do for a living. My dad was in the Army, and he had ours laminated from being in the field and getting soaking wet from the rain one too many times.

Chapter 1 and the Prologue are edited - if anyone is interested (haha)

HAPPY EASTER ALL!! I got up at my normal 4:15, and decided about 6:00 to go back to bed - nearly ran into Kaylee in the hallway (she wanted her Easter Basket) she was too cute - the head of the chocolate bunny is already eaten.

Time to get ready for church.

Have a great Sunday, and a blessed Easter.


Heather Sun Apr 15 02:06:55 PDT 2001

Mary, I'm very sorry to hear of the people who jeered at (or otherwise tainted) the ceremony that you participated in. I find that disrespectful on their part - to use the word strongly isn't enough. Any religious holiday, anything that highly revered by others, is more than enough to command my respect; whether or not I find a greater truth embedded in those philosophies is irrelevant. If not their religion, at the very least I respect them as human beings.

My godmother seemed to have lost her shine for life, for faith in the Divine, as well as faith in the goodness of the human heart. If I could explain to you how sparkly and shimmery she was, then you will know the extent to which she does not shine so much any more. I think it is a terrible thing, this loss of trust with the world. With each other. I would like very much to see more communities like this one, in which I am blessed to be a participant.

Give yourselves a hug for me.


Heather Sun Apr 15 01:50:51 PDT 2001

Rosemary: Apply for a new muse. The application is full of typos, and it's single spaced and blurry, printed on 16 lb. tracing paper and written in Latin; you must apply in person, with a hundred-page hand-written synopsis and your novel pitch memorized (and filmed, if you're ambitious). It may take four to six weeks to process your application, and the board reserves the right to refuse your request. We would like to remind you that at all times your muse is on loan, and she must be returned within the specified perameters listed in your contract. We look forward to hearing from you, and best of luck.

Happy Easter, one and all, I hope you have all had a chuckle and dyed your share of eggs. If you're not happy after all the beautiful words contributed by each and every notebook member, just think of all the hard-boiled eggs there are to salt up and eat after all the chocolate's gone.

Joy, joy, with you I raise my glass.


Teekay Sun Apr 15 01:39:44 PDT 2001

Happy Easter to you all,

Well, in view of the latest update re: the spy plane episode, I guess the President could be forgiven if he happened to have his fingers crossed behind his back while apologizing.

There's a brand new polar bear exhibit just opened in Queensland. Millions of dollars was spent on the construction and it's taken about 2 years to complete. It's Polar bear paradise and the 2 bears that occupy it are from America and China and they're getting along fabulously. Guess they haven't been watching the news. :-)

DEBRA: My fingers are crossed for you. I think that book should definitely get around.

MARY: Gee, I wonder if the woman eventually realized the irony of her complaints.

JERRY: Okay, I take back my last comment. I love your rambling in general, but that computer talk, I don't know what it is, I try to read it and my brain starts thinking about other things, like the square root of 3546361 or wether snails have cravings. My eyes get all blurry and I start to drool, but that's my problem, don't you worry 'bout me. :-) Buh...buh....buh.....Same thing happens when my hubby tries to explain computer workings to me. Thankfully that doesn't happen much.

My Bag:
1 purse
1 mobile phone.
1 nappy.
1 small pack of baby wipes.
1 lipstick (suede)
1 lip moisturiser
1 small notepad with ' a note from Teekay' printed on every page.
1 pen

You're right, that was entertaining. :-)

Well I really have completed chapter 1 of my 'NOVEL'. And it feels so right. I hope this lasts. I haven't edited it yet, but basically it feels good. The characters are taking shape and the story is really coming alive in my head. I'm sort of getting the idea of how to write a longer story rather than just short stories, at least I think I am, and it's really exhilerating.
I find myself thinking about it all the time and really look forward to getting back to work on it.

Gotta leave you all now,
hope your Easter is wonderful :-)

JERRY: Please forgive me my computer illiterate brain. :-) And keep on talking computers as much as you like.

Allein peachick2000@hotmail.com http://members.fortunecity.com/peachick2000 Sat Apr 14 23:17:01 PDT 2001

Ben - You fell in the river? My brother fell in a lake once. My grandfather owns an island with a cabin on it (this island is about 1/2 a mile long) and we went up there one summer to visit. My brother was checking the water to see if it is warm enough to go swimming and as he bent over to put his hand in, he slipped on the wet dock and fell in. That was funny. :) He wasn't in any danger - he knew how to swim and everything and after he got out we were all laughing about it.
Ahh, memories. :)

Tina Sat Apr 14 23:13:49 PDT 2001

Hey Mary!
I don't know tonnes about tire construction, but the two biggest advantages are insulation and reusing a material that's hard to dispose of. Oh yeah it's also pretty cheap by comparison. I've been inside two tire homes, and they were both amasing, far nicer than you'd ever expect. You don't actually see the tires; they're stacked up, filled with cement (I think it is) and then finished with your preferred surface treatment.

My purse contents haven't changed. But the backpack I take everywhere has a mixture of thingies...
notebook for writing
bus schedule
loose change
swiss army knife
lip balm
water bottle
hand cream
first aid kit;
bandaids, bandages, cold chemical compress, tylenol, hayfever medicine, wet ones, telfa pads, pads, tweezers, emergency blanket, sting stop, anitseptic cream, thread, cord, sport tape
sometimes... binoculars, cell phone, dog leash

Have a great one

Ben Sat Apr 14 22:28:16 PDT 2001

Allian: 60 cents and a book of matches in my left pocket; one receipt, one bank withdrawl statement, a lighter, and a pencil (with my daughter's name written across it); and a small leather credit card holder with my license, one credit card, a Visons client card, two library cards, one CARE card--a medical card--my union card, and a picture of my daughter. My son's was ruined last time I fell in the river. Oh yeah, and a bill from the vet for when I had to take the dog in to have her Anal sacs expressed on Thursday. I don't like wallets. I just carry my money in my pockets, but it's the end of the day now, and the wife was home...so, no money left, of course. And there's a napking in my top shirt pocket left over from this afternoon. The funny part is, I put everything back in my pockets after going through them. I guess guys are funny that way.

Right now, I can hear fireworks going off in the distance. Drives the dog crazy. I can't see anything, just hear it. That, and the music, which is about eight or ten blocks away. I'm trying to watch a movie: AT PLAY IN THE FIELDS OF THE LORD. Anyone seen it? It's four hours long. It was on earlier, but so was the hockey game :-( We lost. Sure hope no likes Colorado.

So, back to the movie.


Mary Sat Apr 14 22:23:36 PDT 2001

TINA: I can go for the adobe, brick, even underground, but what's with the tires? How does that work and what are the benefits? Besides being soundproof, hehe.

Tina Sat Apr 14 21:46:08 PDT 2001


Mary, the houseplan thing just kind of happens, that's why I think it's genetic. Sometimes I'll be walking my dog, and we'll go past a piece of property with some unusual quality like an odd hill or a huge stone, and my brain goes into design overdrive. If *I* owned that property, what kind of house would suit it? How could I incorporate that feature? Would a ranch or a split level be best? What if I make it an earth-home? What's the best angle to make it solar powered? I'm very into alternative building styles like adobe and tire and straw brick and metal beam and solar powered and.... so all the options make my brain go wild!

Bye Bye for now!

Allein Sat Apr 14 19:15:52 PDT 2001

Yikes! I thought it was smaller than that.

Allein peachick2000@hotmail.com http://members.fortunecity.com/peachick2000 Sat Apr 14 19:15:01 PDT 2001

Oh yes!! Happy Easter!! :)
Here's a picture. :)


Litter Again Sat Apr 14 18:25:19 PDT 2001

Just cut and paste!

Litter Sat Apr 14 18:21:56 PDT 2001

Happy Easter to all.

For those of a Christian persuasion --


For those offended by overt shows of Christian faith --


Rosemary Sat Apr 14 17:57:47 PDT 2001

The Muggy Evening post was mine. Second time I've left the top blank.

howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Sat Apr 14 17:56:35 PDT 2001

I guess what bothers me most about Themestream folding is that I never got the advance email notice they said they sent to everyone, so I didn't get a chance to clean out my locker. Dunno what they'll do with all my stuff. I thought some of it was pretty good, too. Bummer!

Our local paper had an article today about getting published. I'll see if I can find it online and point y'all at it.

Allein peachick2000@hotmail.com http://members.fortunecity.com/peachick2000 Sat Apr 14 17:49:37 PDT 2001

Hi People,
I'm bored today so I thought I'd bring back that weird game we play every few months that we haven't in a while - What's in our purses (or back pockets / wallets for the guys - but who knows maybe some guys here do carry purses)?
You don't have to participate if you don't want but it's always fun to see what people carry around with them. :)

I'll start.

In my purse I have:

Three bags of Green Tea
Name tag (the paper kind with Hello my name is... written at the top)
Yellow sticky note with dentist's phone number
Nail cutters and file
Cigarette lighter (I'm baffled as to why thats in there?)
Another pen
Hair tie

And that was just the front little pocket, in the main part of my purse:

Change purse - empty :(
Small bag with feminine products inside
Cards - ID, library, bank, CPR certification, student ID, Social security, Safeway and Rite Aid savings, Blockbuster,
Sanrio (hello kitty) store point cards.
Calculator (and not a little one either)
Keys and keychains (2000, graduate, heart shaped one with Japanese pagoda inside and a molar)
Bag of microwave popcorn
Piece of paper with web address on it
Small silver case (intended for tampons but used for trash - gum wrappers, etc.)
Empty baggie
Travel toothbrush (didn't work)
Small tube of toothpaste (didn't work)
Card reminding me of dentist appointment to get cavity filled :scream:
Picture of Pepper (aww! :D)
Piece of paper, written on it is:

Tomato wa dame Not the Tomato
Watashi no mono It's mine
Tako wa ageru I'll give you my octopus
Mitame ga kirai I hate the way it looks

Hey! Lint! :)

Now I'm not so bored. :) I've been amused for the day.

Sat Apr 14 17:39:59 PDT 2001

A Muggy Evening to all,

I'm sure you are just fine. I mentioned in my post that I am a little parinoid on the subject. Statistics say that children of alcolholics usually become alcoholics. That scares me to death and I am over-critical on the subject. Should have kept my fingers shut.

I didn't expect sheep with no opinion. I was just surprised and a little hurt when I read those opinions.

I must be in an especially patriotic mood lately. I accused my friend Mary Lou of being a traitor because she is always happy when the Spurs Basketball team loses a game. The thing is, I hate Basketball. Who cares if they lose a game, or all of them. But they belong to San Antonio and she is supposed want them to win.

I just finished 'The Skies Of Pern' by Anne McCaffery. My opinion, it is the best one she has put out in a long time. Hope she keeps it up.

It's a shame about Themestream. I only checked it out a couple of times but thought it was great.


Mary Sat Apr 14 16:54:48 PDT 2001

JERRY: I certainly am mourning the death of Themestream. I was relatively new, and hadn't contributed yet, but I loved that so many of my friends had work there.

BEN: I loved reading about the festival. :-)

Jerry jerrag@dakota-web.com http://www.geocities.com/jericsson2000 Sat Apr 14 16:15:16 PDT 2001

Well I have heard that things have a way of working out, but sometimes I doubt that.

Today, however has given me new faith in things working out.

A couple of months ago, I bought a box of junk on ebay. It had two CD drives in it, one a 44 speed and another old one. I disassembled the 44 speed, and found that a plug had come disconnected, once connected, it worked great. It looked like junk though because someone had taken the door off. So I looked on Ebay for one that didn't work, but had the right kind of door. Well I found one, and won the bid last week. A couple of days after that, I had a mishap, and ended up spilling a glass of milk. Some of the milk splashed into the CD drive, where the door should have been, and fried the main board of the drive, ruing the whole thing. Today, the mailman brought me a package containing the non-working CD drive. Just as advertised, it was a brand new one, never been used, and just like the add said, it didn't work. I played with it a bit, and found the reason it didn't work was that the eject button didn't work. I took it apart, removed that stupid button they put on for audio CD's and moved it to where the broken cd eject button was, soldered it in, and tried it out. Well now I have a brand new working 34 speed cd drive. And to top it off, the color even matches the computer, something the other one didn't. I guess sometimes things do work themselves out.

Having a great weekend, my son, his wife and our grand daughter are down, I did the fix thing while they were taking their naps. Lots of cards, and special meals to celebrate their visit, my son's birthday, my grand daughters birthday, and Easter. I am feeling much better now. Oh and my son brought down his VCR which quit working, and I fixed that too, having a very good day as a tinker I guess.

Watching the spy plane crew come home - I guess it is ok to treat them as hero's, although I don't see what they did that was particularly heroic, except maybe the pilot, who did some great flying to get the plane on the ground. I guess because of what could have happened it is good to celebrate that it is over anyhow. I am sure their families are so very pleased to have them home again.

You know, I was thinking about what was said here earlier, about the Russians and Chinese maybe doing the same fly-overs on our borders. I don't see where they would have to, our society is so open they can simply drive around and look at anything they want to see, there is no need for their spy planes to do anything. Our society is not like that of the Chinese, we allow almost anyone to visit, and even let those who are on our enemy list have access to almost the whole country. I guess that is what freedom is all about.


PS are we all morning the death of Themestream?

Ben Sat Apr 14 16:00:02 PDT 2001

Rosemary: I agree with Tina--your loss.

Everybody: Just spent a fabulous hour or so walking through a Sihk celebration--I never did know what it was for--down the end of the road and around the corner. It's a warm, bright day up here, and the cherry blossoms are littering the road, floating down like snowflakes. I love the sight of those things for some strange reason, especially long, tree lined streets of them. We only have about half a dozen of them across the street, but they remind me of some of the streets downtown.

Anyway, we walked around the corner and there it was, the non-parade. I say that because it wasn't moving. They were just sitting in one spot, dancing and singing and giving speeches. The people that live along the parade route bring out food and feed the multitudes. That's why my wife insisted we go. She wanted to eat as much of it as she could. The farther we walked up the street, the more crowded it became. The streets were blocked off of course, and there were huge semis pulling trailers full of people, all of them blaring out music, while people danced around them in a rainbow of brilliant colours. The funniest part was that with all those people crowded so close together--so close you'd think it was a weekend in New Dheli--a bird had the nerve to drop one right on my wife's arm. I thought she was going to piss her pants she was laughing so hard about it. She said she was squeezed inside a throng of people, and it still managed to hit her. I told her it was good luck to get shit on, by a bird I mean, as opposed to the usual people that do it, and then rememebered that was when it shits on your head. So I told her to go back out there and maybe she'd get lucky.

But she'd had her fill of somosas and poori, and roti by then, and it was time to leave. I ran into a woman from Montreal who was here visiting her son, and said she'd never seen anything like this before. She asked where all the food came from. When I told her the people made it themselves in order to feed everyone else, she was amazed. Said it was way better the any St. Patty's Day parade, or Canada Day parade, she'd been to, because this was given by the people themselves. Everyone is polite, there's never any pushing or shoving, and it doesn't matter what race you are, it's just help yourself.

Shorite night: It hasn't ended as far as I'm concerned, it's just that for the last couple of times I was trying to get things completed and sent out, and so I devoted myself to the other p.c., and made myself work there instead. I still check in, even if I don't say anything, but this site being such an addiction, I have to ween myself away from it at times. I still get withdrawls though.

And one final note on my "Drinking Habits" :-) There's no problem here, okay? When you work shift work, you don't drink in the day time, because there's nothing worse than being hung over at work. I drink on weekends, but not every weekend. I like to drink, and knowing I like it, I keep it in close check. Okay, so if I have a drink at two in the morning, or two in the afternoon, it doesn't mean anything. Thank you for your concern guys, but don't try to read something in it that isn't there, okay :-) I'm a naturally happy go-lucky kind of a guy. I drink because I like it, not to get away from things.

And speaking of getting away, I have to run now because the little woman wants to pick up another ham for tomorrow, and pineapples. Her and the neighbour are planning to have a big dinner for Easter. I say, right on. They are both great cooks.


Mary notdotcalm@yahoo.com Sat Apr 14 11:52:10 PDT 2001

HOWARD: Welcome back. Good job getting yourself all reconnected. My cables are all color coded and my set-up is rather simple, but moving even for me was a real drag. I can only imagine what you went through.

HEATHER: (Tina too!!) I would love to see that house concept. Well, more than a concept really...the plans! I have never undertaken such a grand scale project even for fun. I did do all the plans myself for the deck we added on to our old house, and the floorplans for a few remodels. Nothing like building something in my head from the ground up though. Wow.

My children have taken to poking their fingers through the window screens and then gradually, as if I won't notice, enlarging the holes. The front door screen hole was able to pass a Louis L'Amour paperback and a Buzz Lightyear action figure. My bedroom window screen recently birthed a Nerf football. Needless to say, that was my project for the day. I replaced all the screens (my wrists are killing me), and gave the lecture to never ever touch them ever again or Mommy will be very sad and they will not be allowed to play outside until they are 17 years old.

Took the two of them to a disastrous Easter Egg hunt at the park this morning. Total chaotic mad-house full of snotty, pushy kids, bitchy mothers and camera-totin' fathers smart enough to keep their distance. We won't be doing that again until my kids are big enough to hold their own.

The four of us walked the huge wooden cross around town yesterday with a joining of all the community church congregations, where it was erected in the middle of the public square. I fought tears the whole trip, imagining what Jesus went through. There was a woman in front of us, carrying her little girl, complaining about how heavy she was. I wondered why she was even there. The strand of us walking had to cross several streets and held up traffic more than once. Not for long, as there were only about 60 of us, but long enough that you could see the irritation on the faces of the drivers because they had to wait for us. I would hazard to say that more than a few of those drivers were off work in honor of Good Friday, and couldn't even be patient enough to let us pass without jeers.

People need to slow down, no matter what religion they follow, and remember that we are all here together and should treat each other with respect and consideration.

Happy Easter, Everyone. Hugs all around.

SusanS susanshock@yahoo.com Sat Apr 14 10:40:33 PDT 2001

Hi and thanks for all your support everyone. I will get through this and in time the pain will fade. I continue to hope that eventually things will work out and my friend will once again be my friend. I don't let myself be angry, because the truth of the matter is, my friend is a very troubled young man. He's had deep seated emotional problems for a very long time and I suspect that personal and job pressures are bringing those problems to a head. He knows we're here for him. Maybe he'll come back to us. I'll always care for him no matter what. And I hold onto good memories, of a crazy guy who always made me laugh with jokes, impressions, obscene comments. I hold onto the memory of a young man with a chivalry complex who offered on a number of occasions to tell off my boss for mistreating me. I hold onto those memories and hope that in the future there will be more good memories.

But I must also get on with my life and try to write again. I'm resisting the urge to withdraw into myself, but it's a struggle. I've still go my husband and my cat to hang onto. I don't know what I would do without them. I'm going to try and write now. Wish me luck.

howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Sat Apr 14 08:45:25 PDT 2001

Yecchh! Lo se connexio s! I think I've got it now, tho gh. Oo ps! Wait - gru t groaan cli k... there! What a job! I will never move this computer room again! Unless I have to. Two boxes up and running, cable modem connexion (that's the UK spelling, just for Litter and Eddie), phone, box after box of parts and software (that I just had to have, plus all the rest of the accumulated detritus.
Can't stay long yet, still lots of work to do to set up things for Bryce.
Skimmed through the posts, will take more time later, but for now:
Happy Birthday Mark! And many more too!
Azure is great, Tina - great color! Keep it!
Sasquatch - I never thought we might have messed up even the color of the sky! Makes sense, though. And you description of that day gave me chills! What a thing to witness!
Gotta run - want to get more done before the new meds completely wipe me out. Dr trying last resort before pursuing another pinched nerve. If this new stuff doesn't work by Tuesday I have to have another MRI, etc etc. O joy!
See ya

howa Sat Apr 14 08:29:40 PDT 2001

Tina Sat Apr 14 08:14:01 PDT 2001

Hello all!

A belated welcome to Melanie! Glad to see you staying around.

'Azure' stays! Thanks :-)

Heather, isn't in fun to draw out dream houses? I have at least a dozen different plans, depending on the landscape, climate, budget, etc. I come by the urge hoenestly; my dad was in construction almost all my life and he designed all of his own houses. (oh boy it hurts to refer to use the 'was' word... deep breath) My whole family draws plans now.
If you can scan yours, I'll scan mine! Or at least my favourite. It's big house, adobe brick or tire walls, with a dojo in the center and an atrium and a hot tub under a retractable roof. It's pretty sweet. It's the 'when I win it big on the lotto' house.

About shortie night... as long as one person here uses it to its purpose, uses it to push beyond their usual boundaries, I'd say it is alive and kicking. Don't kick what ain't dead! Personally, thank you Mary for sticking it out. I've now writen four pieces that I never would have given time, never would have discovered in me without shortie night.

Rosemary, your loss. If you were expecting a peaceful utopia of Canadian sheep who never speak their mind or have opinions, you obviously have the wrong country.

Teekay, sounds like you're working on a feast!

Must be off to work.

Sat Apr 14 07:40:46 PDT 2001

ug this thing in and see if it wo

Debra Sat Apr 14 06:38:20 PDT 2001


No, no pressure. I'd hate to see it end. I have him so fustrated now. It's a crack up really.


How sweet are you. You can't get it in stores unless you want to order it. It is published by Dorrance. They are still on the first edition. That's a plus if I ever get noticed.

Speaking of getting noticed, I heard from an agent I sent my second sweetie too. She said she liked it a great deal. She is going to see if she can find a publisher and let me know next week. I did the mini dance of joy. I hope to do the big one soon.


Heather Sat Apr 14 01:51:25 PDT 2001

Back later to respond to everyone else's comments aimed for me!



Heather Sat Apr 14 01:49:42 PDT 2001

Mary: I've designed a doozie of a house. It's drawn on really large sketch paper, so if I scan it in, I'll only get part of it per scan. I could sketch it smaller...

Anyhow, I designed it after looking very carefully at a spiral seashell. It is, in fact, very structurally sound. Can't go into too much detail, as it really helps to see the sketch, but it's two storeys, and the central circle (where the spiral leads from) is a two storey tube shaped sky light. It gets even better. I'd have it constructed from reinforced steel bars and concrete. I don't know what I would finish it with on the outside to prevent the concrete from crumbling, but that would be the architect's area of expertise. Yeah, WHEN I can afford an architect. I always wanted to be one...

I can at least do a pretty fair job of the blueprints.I might try scanning it and I can email it if anyone wants to point and laugh! Wouldn't a giant seashell house just be the cornerstone of tourism here? You bet. BUt that's not why I want very much to build it.

You're right, though - this house is great, it's charming and pretty and cute as a button (and more spacious than first appearances warrant) but there are a few things that I'd like to change/add that I couldn't without putting in a few tens of thousands for an addition. And the addition could only go out toward the street... I'd rather not think that far ahead of myself, though, as evidenced by what I've already said, I have thought about it!


Teekay Sat Apr 14 00:47:05 PDT 2001

Hi All,

JERRY: Ramble as much as you please - I love it when you ramble :-)

HEATHER: I'm glad to see you back and posting. You have no idea how much I enjoy reading your posts :-)
Your mention of contentment made me think of something and I'm going to share it and probably regret it later, but oh well, here goes:
You know when you see the first star in the sky you can wish on it? Well anyway, I always do, I'm a bit superstitious. Well this particular night we were driving home down the dirt track from MIL's farm when I spied this first star in the sky and I did the star light star bright thing (in my head of course, don't wanta scare Hubby too much) and I wished for contentment for all. Well, I nearly got my wish, the bloody truck almost wiped us out.
I've come to the conclusion that full time contentment isn't possible here on earth, we can only hope and try for those occassions when contentment does settle upon us and soothe our souls.
I'm not wishing for contentment again.
Besides, as writers, if we were content we probably wouldn't feel that aching need to write.

HALLEE: Thanks :-).

MELANIE: A belated welcome to you :-). I kept thinking it, but forgot to post it.
Ah, you're a soprano/alto? I'm a tone deaf myself. The only person who thinks my singing sounds okay is me. Which is a bit of a shame coz I love to sing.
So sing you say, and I would, but if there's anyone withing hearing distance they tell me to be quiet only usually not so politely. Even my 2 year old son puts his hand over my mouth when I sing - what does that tell you :-)

SUSAN: Well now I'm curious. It must have been one doozy of a misunderstanding to lose a great friend over.

I prefer someone else to do my gift shopping. Anticipation is half the fun :-) Have a great day.

JON: I have missed you. Do stay.

BEN: Halibut cheeks?? From a fishes butt? Or head? Does a fish even have a butt?

DEBRA: HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA oh you poor thing!!!!! The pressure you must be under!! PRESSURE!. GEDDIT??? GEDDIT???? I think your husband is the all out winner here. :-D

BEN: Gee thanks. I can't have a look at it right now, but I promise to.

JERRY: That's terrible - about the book I mean. I thought they had people to proof read these things?!?!?

TINA: Ignore them. Don't take the advice of anyone who can't pronounce or doesn't know the meaning of azure.

RANDALL: You know what really happened to the dinosaurs? No it wasn't the ice age. No it wasn't a comet. What really happened is that one day, some dinosaurs wanted to see what was on the other side of Great Big Rocky Hill and there were others that thought it was forbidden and would be bad luck to any who went there and then there were some who didn't give a rats. So anyway, they decided to vote on it! It was a really bad end.
The ones who didn't give a rats are still here crawling around in the swamps which goes to show, sometimes it pays to be a fence sitter :-)

ROSEMARY: Shorty night doesn't have to come to a halt. Write something!!! :-)

CHRISTI: Thanks :-), but if you are referring to my 'NOVEL' heh heh I think there might be a long wait. You see I'm not going to edit it til it's all done and, well, need I say more.
And you know the same goes for me with your writing. :-)

Gotta go, i've been Easter cooking all day and if you know me, that doesn't make for a very happy chappy.
I've still gotta go and finish the chocolate hazlenut balls *sigh*. hope they taste as nice as they sound.

Rachel Fri Apr 13 23:40:49 PDT 2001

Teekay - check out the station Ben mentioned to you. See if you can click onto twisted tunes (grins/laughter).

Mark - Happy B-Day! You share a B-Day with one of my baby sisters!

Take care all,


Christi eggnoggin@yahoo.com http://www.hatrack.com/ Fri Apr 13 23:32:40 PDT 2001

Hallooooo spirits of the Notebook!

Hop, Don't worry, those two days of writing my children's book turned into five. Editing. Sigh. And I think I'm in for maybe one or two more.
And yes, I read that OSC has lost two children, one of whom was a baby and one who was severly handicapped but who lived to be eighteen (far longer than predicted by doctors) and brought much joy into his family's life. If you'd like to use the link above to Card's website you can read his memorial to his son, Benjamin. If you do, keep some Kleenex handy. I sure needed it.

Hey Ben! I send you hugs.

Melanie, Welcome to you! I look forward to getting to know you. Okay, this is maybe a bit strange buuut, may I call you Mel? I've always wanted to know a Mel.

Howard, I very much like the way you think.

Heather, Woo hoo! Another part of the novel! Pencil me in for ANYTIME!

Teekay, No pressure. Just waiting. (Fingers tapping on the desk) JUST KIDDING! Don't kill me, and pleeeease don't pressure me like I just did you. Honestly, I just get so excited to read your work that I can barely contain myself.

Debra, I'd like to buy your book too. If anyone here has a book published, the very least I can do is support them. It's a wonderful thing.

Tina, Wow. Goosebumps. Nice poem! BTW, who are those four people? Azure is a shade of blue, is it not? I think lots of people know that without consulting 'Webster', and I think you should keep it!

Hallee, Congratulations! And welcome back; it's great to see you here again. Enjoy your new house!

Teekay! I loved your poem.

Mary, lovely shortie, and I loved hearing about your children's feet pounding on the stairs (in your post). So sweet!

Sorry for your troubles, Susan. Things will get better. Here's a cheer-up {{{hug}}}.

Hiya, Mark! BAPPY HIRTHDAY!!!!!!!!!!! ;P Big birthday hugs and kisses. *smack!* (What did you get?)

Jon, It is so good to see you here again. I've really missed you! What are you and your master up to? Probably up to no good, but do let us in on your adventures anyway.

Hi Randall and Sasquatch and Rosemary!

Great shorties, all! On my part, I plan to participate (either with writing or reading ;]) in shortie night as long as there IS a shortie night. I look forward to reading things that inspire me every time. LONG LIVE SHORTIE NIGHT! And long live our patient mistress, Mary. (Mistress Mary!!! Woo woo! I'm sorry. It just sounded so ... so ... woo woo!)
PS And Mary ... how does your garden grow? Somebody sock me in the head and knock me out, won't you? I'm afraid I've had too much coffee at too late an hour.

Looking for a hammer,


Mary notdotcalm@yahoo.com Fri Apr 13 21:48:13 PDT 2001

ROSEMARY: I think that this is just a lull in business as far as Shortie Night goes. It is too enjoyable an activity to let a minor suggestion, and an off-hand discussion about copyrights snag it up. I am not worried yet. The last couple topics I suggested weren't exactly awe-inspiring either.

Thing will pick up, you will see.


Rosemary Fri Apr 13 20:50:20 PDT 2001

Evening all,

Happy Birthday. Friday the 13th must be your lucky day.

I distinctly remember the post when you suggested Ben might be an alcoholic and you offered help. (Sorry Ben), but I agreed with Mark then and haven't changed my mind. Of course, I am over sensitive about the subject. Both of my parents were alcoholics. My father was a captain in the Air Force and was what I call a functioning alcoholic. I wound up with a minor phobia about alcohol and any other mind altering substance.
Even after all these years of not being around anyone who drinks, I can tell if someone that I know, even slightly, is under the influence. A friend's husband is diabetic and I could tell he was starting to have trouble with his sugar even before she could.

My sister and I had been thinking about taking that train trip across Canada that is supposed to be so wonderful, but I had no idea there were such deep anti-American feelings up there. I know I really resent that our country gives billions of our tax dollars to all those countries that happily receive it, then turn around and hate us even more for it. I didn't know we had done anything to or for Canada. Am rethinking the trip.

It's a shame short shorty night is slowly coming to a halt. I don't know if it was the limiting word size suggestion or the copyright nonsense, but I thought both suggestions had been discounted. I realize I have no room to talk, I haven't been submitting either but it's just lazyness of my muse in my case.

That's enough to get me in trouble again for this week.
By now,

sasquatch Fri Apr 13 19:38:58 PDT 2001

hello again i sasquatch am please to be here. tina person i sasquatch know this azure please keep in. this is what color the sky was before all humans persons made the dust and smoke in air. pretty now yes but beautiful azure sky in before times. randall person you would not like smell in sasquatch lair. sasquatch sometimes can not stand too. and this is some why Yeti wander much to air out den. ha ha. happy borning day mark person. this is fine day for birth. yes howard person Yeti memory that day. there was fear and earth cried and sky was dark. Yeti did not under stand why light ones did not come to help the One but stood and tears came even to them. he was so alone and pain was on him and in his eyes. but there was also sorry there not for self but for the humans persons who hurt so. sasquatch wanted to hurt them but he looked at sasquatch and his eyes said no. then he screamed to the sky and even the shining ones put hands over ears and turned away and sky went black and great storm came and all was fear even Yeti shaken. then ended. sasquatch ran away to hide and try to forget but could not forget what happened that day. and if that is all then still must be afraid but that is not all. light came back and the One brought it. not dead any more but alive. that is reason sasquatch does not under stand why humans persons hurt other humans persons even after that. i must go.

Debra Fri Apr 13 19:14:16 PDT 2001



Randall startiki@hotmail.com Fri Apr 13 18:26:39 PDT 2001

Hi! TGIF my friends! :-)

Gonna start right off and say pardon the spelling, cause I ain't got no time to check. (Now, that's back woods talk, huh?) Sure Sasquatch understands, eh?

Ahem....screw politics, politicans and the horse they rode in on. The long and the short and the tall. Politics, governments, democrats, republicans, Chinese, Eskimos, hell with 'em in a hand basket. Politics, as related to government, that is control of vast populations is a short time commitment and a human thing at that. You say the Chinese have been "civillized" for 2,000 years, Europeans for a 1,000, Americans for 200 and something. Big deal! Laughable! Side splitting, knee slapping! And furthmore I seriously doubt the term 'civilized" means a hoot and a hollar if it ever did. All civilization means is you gotta get permission to step outside and pee. Think about it.

Wanna talk commitment and long term...Mother Nature babe. Now this old girl understands long term. Dinasours roamed the earth for how many years? 130, 150 million? Been dead 100 million, give or take a million? Took the Colorado River how long to carve the Grand Canyon in Arizona? How long has the Pacific tetonic plate been pushing up under the good old US of A? Mid-Alantic range, up or down? The monoliths in Monument Valley are the remains of an ancient sea bed. How long did that take to form? The infamous Black Sea flood happened when? Great African Rift? How long did it take the Himululays... uh, them mountains in Nepal :-) to be formed as India careened northward and slammed into the sofy underbelly of Asia a zillion years ago? Atlantis dissapeared 10,000 years ago...only last week friends.

I read recently that in a million years, ALL of human civilization will simply be a thin line running through an enermous fold of highly compressed, stressed rock in an eroded valley in a desolate wasteland. And who will be looking at that thin dark line? Will they appreciate human culture, will they, or it, be human. Look around at your home, apartment, city, state, country, all gone in the blink of natures eye. Will this simple human culture of ours be worthy of study and by whom? Standing on a planet orbiting Sirrus looking toward Sol, will our petty teritorial gripes be relevant in the cosmos? Huh? How did our buddies dying in Vietnam help? Did we gain or lose there? Did they?

See where I'm coming from? When I got into geology, my thinking turned geological. When I studied the stars, saw what Hubbard was seeing; time stretched beyond what Mr. Einstein's simple E=MC'squared indicated. Black Holes. Naked singularties? Collapsing stars? Warped space-time? The only thing important to us as humans is the nuturing of a God created soul planted within. Something He created for His purpose. You know, it may well be God, standing, looking at that thin line of human civilization a couple million years from now. Will He/She smile, grin or shake a head and move away muttering.

"I simply have to improve on that lot next time."

And I don't believe God cares how the Chinese-American 11 day stand-off turned out. The Chinese pilot, if at all possible is probably trying to explain his life and choices right now. Now, that is real diplomacy! :-))

Don't bother Him...don't bother me. God has better things to be concerned over...and so do I. All this international "incident" amounts to is a TV made movie, numerous books, a magazine cover or two...and time moves forward, but do we?

Well, time to climb down from my soapbox and sulk away. Say, Saquatch, got room in your dwelling for me? Promise I will bathe once a week, need it or not.

Goodnight Americo.


Mary Fri Apr 13 18:15:51 PDT 2001

TINA: Keep it.

Tina Fri Apr 13 18:10:13 PDT 2001

Happy Birthday Mark!

Heyo, here's a question...
In the poem I posted, in the first line I use the word 'azure'. I've had four people tell me that they don't know how to say that word, let alone know what it means. Since the poem was about a time in my life and is quite personal, and I like the word azure, should I keep it or bow to pressure? I'm inclined to keep it... maybe?


Mary Fri Apr 13 17:59:04 PDT 2001

Haiku Fairy: Is that you Litter? Hugs.

Jerry Fri Apr 13 17:56:25 PDT 2001


We will be celebrating my grand daughters birthday tomorrow, and my son's as well, hers is tomorrow, his is the 20th, a day he despises, simply because of it's historical significant, what with Hitler being born that day, and Waco and the Ok. Bombing happening that day.

I am, by the way reading An American Terrorist, all about McVeay from birth to terrorist and beyond. I made sure that none of the money got to him before I bought the book. So far, the story isn't all that great, and the writing is not all that professional either, several mistakes glare at you when you are reading through it. I try to ignore them, and absorb the story, but I guess when you pay for a book, you at least expect it to be grammatically correct.


The Haiku Fairy Fri Apr 13 17:39:40 PDT 2001

Hoist high on its own petard
Themestream dies, broken...

Rhoda Fri Apr 13 17:07:01 PDT 2001

Happy Birthday, Mark!!!

Ben http://www.rock101.com/ Fri Apr 13 15:12:18 PDT 2001

Teekay: I'm giving you this radio station I always listen to. I highly recommend you listen to the morning crew, Brother Jake and his gang. They'll get you laughing. They even take email requests from all over the world. Send me something from Down Under that you like and I can listen to. Gotta go...

Debra Fri Apr 13 13:47:46 PDT 2001

Hey Teekay:

In one of your posts, you asked me if I was doing that farty noise. I have a seventeen year thingie going with my husband proving that I don't do that at all.

He keeps saying he'll catch me but he won't. Well he won't live to tell. I told him if he ever did I'd have to take his life.

That hasn't stopped him from trying to catch me.


Melanie Fri Apr 13 13:03:25 PDT 2001

H.B., Mark! Have a great one! (Meant to wish it to you earlier today) from an April Fool, myself

Mary notdotcalm@yahoo.com Fri Apr 13 12:42:39 PDT 2001

MARK: Happy Birthday there, Fella! I will keep my fingers crossed that no bad luck befalls you on this day of increased probability of misfortune. Was the 13th of April a Friday the actual year of your birth?

HEATHER: Sometimes even a house you have designed yourself doesn't cut the mustard(unless money is no object). We all think we know what we want, but needs change. Attitudes change. Health changes. If I were looking for a house today, I would not want the same things I was looking for two years ago. What I thought I wanted wasn't what I needed at all. I will not be looking for another house anytime soon. I am rather in love with the one we have now. (Despite its steep basement steps down to the laundry, and its bathroom shortage.) I will be very glad when my children stop banging those french doors together as they run down the hall, but their little feet on the stairs sound just like I thought they would.


Ben Fri Apr 13 11:21:19 PDT 2001

Hi guys. Back to normal again after that brief little--whatever the hell it was (it's not me; I'm not usually like that)...anyways, apologoies all said and done, life goes on.

Melanie: Welcome and Hello, or vice versa. You'll find this a great place to hang out in.

Susan: Life sucks when you lose a close friend like that, whether it's friend or family. Just hold onto the good memories.

Heather: I was just reading something in last week's GLOBE AND MAIL that said Canada was THE new, hot, commodity. It seems the rest of the world can't get enough of CAN-LIT. Go figure. All those years of trying to break into the American market, just to find out that they've opened the door here, by way of Britain, Germany and France. It seems Europe and the rest of the world has finally found out that we do have something to say--only now they're buying it, and paying big. Bukowski is the name of the Agent that stuck out--not a relative of the drunken Charles I'm hoping (did you ever see that movie BARFLY? That was based on him.)

I have to run off now. It being a holiday that means the wife has to work, and I get it off, (except for doing the laundry). Sad thing about retail, but hey, she loves it. I have to get the usual fish for Good Friday--the only tradition I try to keep in honour of my parents and their good Catholic upbringing. Sole tonight...just something about the name I guess. This being B.C., salmon's are a dime a dozen. It helps that the neighbour works in a fish processing plant and just throws things over to us once in a while. Anyone ever heard of Halibut cheeks? Quite the expensive little delicacy I hear. They throw them away where she works. She brings them home by the bag full. Like every other fancy delicacy I've tried over the years, over rated. Tastes like fish to me. :-)

There, I finally did one of those little smiley faces. That way everyone will know I'm grinning.

again Fri Apr 13 10:06:25 PDT 2001

It seems like I'm destined to do 3 posts at a time today.

(deep breath)



Hallee Fri Apr 13 10:00:26 PDT 2001

MARK: Happy Easter to you as well! (hug)


Hallee halleec@aol.com Fri Apr 13 09:49:37 PDT 2001

Hi all!

Here's my problem: On the weekends, I nap with Kaylee. I do it every Saturday and Sunday...sometimes it's just half an hour, sometimes it's the full 2 hours. This is the drawback of waking at 4:15 every morning and going to bed around 10:00 every night. SO, today's Good Friday, her school is closed and she's here with me, and in the darkest corner of my office, she's lying on a pallet of about 4 quilts folded up, snuggled under a blanket, and breathing heavy. My mind is telling me it's time for MY nap too. (sigh) (haha)

MELANIE: In about 2-1/2 years, I've written 10 books. Thee problem is, I've only submitted twice, and only 3 of them are edited even slightly. I have to stop writing for a while - just to catch up with myself. Otherwise, I could end up sitting on 20 un-tried, un-published, un-edited novels. I only have 2 hours a day to devote to the writing world in any form - that's why I'm stopping. If it goes away - then it goes away. At least I'll have 10 to try to sell.

SUSAN: (hug) I'm so sorry. Been there, had it happen. It's never fun - even years later. I REALLY hope things get patched up for you.

JON: Good to see you - Happy Easter to you, as well. I'll be grilling salmon for Easter dinner, and in case your travels bring you this way for the weekend, I'll make sure to leave a plate out for you. No need to announce your presence, just accept the food. (Stay away from my cat, though - she's in heat and I have NO desire to have a bunch of little kitties, nor do I have the desire to have PUSSY be my enemy.)

Back to work - they handed me two proposals I have to have done by the 19th - 80 pages each. I remember, because Kaylee reminded me - that I had to work last Easter Sunday because of a proposal due that week. Ugh. My creative juices are sapped after 5 hours of it so far. It was nice to take a quick break.


Jon Fri Apr 13 06:59:16 PDT 2001

Here's a beautiful poem I wrote on the clouds:
Happy Easter to all
From my thousand and one nights dreamy holiday land
I wish you were here
(Jon, poet and emperor on holidays)

Melanie melanieh@flls.org Fri Apr 13 06:51:47 PDT 2001

Susan -
Talk to me. I mean it. I've been there (sort of still there) - it's too hard to take alone. Then relax here with some terrific people - they have a way about them that will calm your nerves, enfold your cares and inspire you to write again. Talk to US.


Mark Fri Apr 13 06:46:02 PDT 2001

JERRY -- Oh, yes. I thought it was Ben I said that to, but I had let it drift away. When I first read your post I didn't realize it was a cut from archive, it looks just like a post. I thought *you* were addressing me. Slower, closer read makes it plain.

Kum by yah -- isn't that pidgin for 'Come By Here'?

or Passover, if that's what you're doing

Today's my birthday (Friday the 13th) so I'm a bit busy. Have had to do some of my own gift shopping. Gosh, hope I'm not disappointed. ;)
I'll let you know what I got after I unwrap it.

SusanS susanshock@yahoo.com Fri Apr 13 06:21:14 PDT 2001

Hi everyone. I haven't been around because of a personal crisis. My husband and I had a falling out with a friend a few days ago. It was a stupid misunderstanding, but he won't speak to us now, and I'm very upset. I love this person like a brother and it tears me apart that our friendship is ended because of a misunderstanding. We've tried to apologize but it doesn't do any good. It hurts so much to lose this person, especially because I have so many good memories of him. I've been so depressed about it that it's hard to write. I try to write but I keep thinking about him and how much he meant to both Allen and I. And now I have to accept the fact that he's gone. I can't even escape my pain through my writing. I'm sorry to unload on people about this, but it's just so painful.

Melanie Fri Apr 13 05:57:35 PDT 2001

HOWARD: You made my day! ***:-) rainbow of smiles :-) ***
But PUH-LEEZE! Put your shoes back on. The only homage a librarian needs is for you to make sure you get your library books back on time (or call up and RENEW them!). And, gosh darn it!, bring back those 5-years-overdue books. Someone else may be wanting to read them!

TEEKAY: I'm with you on "Kum-bah-yah, my Lord!" (Soprano/Alto, whatever you need to fill in!)

HEATHER and HALLEE: Thanks for your open hearts.
HALLEE: DON'T stop writing - I have for a year and it's just about driven me crazy. I'm winding up again and something really big or messy is about to explode on paper -I'll have a "Dickens" of a time cleaning up the mess! If you've got inspiration, write it down now! The publishers can catch up with you later. (WHY can't I take my own advice???)

And if HALLEE or ANYONE wants another editing opinion, I'm most willing (can't let the English major in me get rusty!)
to proof just about anything. My own first (as yet unpublished) novel has had so much editing, re-editing, and regurgitating, I feel almost an expert on looking for typos, weak grammar, unintended POV switches, and weak story elements. In fact, I've been writing since I was a kid, some 30-something years ago, so I've seen and corrected an incredibly humbling amount of typos in my writing journeys.

Hallee is so right - this IS a great group of people and I've only been here reading and sharing for a few days but I can feel your personalities right through the power of your cyberspace words. May all your mss. be as powerful and thought-provoking!! :-) I've felt "lost" for such a long time - Thanks for making me feel at home.


last time...I promise Fri Apr 13 02:14:25 PDT 2001

okay - I think it's time to inhale another cup of coffee. My first post response to Tina should have been a response to Teekay.

*shuffling into the kitchen to get more coffee*

Hallee (again) Fri Apr 13 02:12:29 PDT 2001

Oh yeah...HEATHER: I'm doing publishers, too. I've decided that I won't start writing another book until I get all 10 of these to publishers (mostly all Harlequin, but my options are pretty limited) - and all 10 to 10 agents. That's my goal. We'll see how long I can keep my muse at bay. I have this little fancy notebook thingy one of my sisters in law got me for my birthday last year - it's full of plot ideas. I look at it and want to pick it up - but I'm afraid that with no outlet happening at this time, I'd read an idea I put in there and be flooded with the story - then I might lose something fresh since I'm sticking to my guns (I hope) and not writing right now!! (And thank you - *hug*)

Sorry if the above doesn't make any sense - we're still working on cup of coffee no. 1.

Hallee halleec@aol.com Fri Apr 13 02:06:10 PDT 2001

Morning all!

HEATHER & TINA: If you really want to help me edit, I could use all the help I can get. Don't forget - I have no formal training...hell, I don't have any informal training - haha - and at this point, I really don't know what I'm doing. I've only been writing for 2 years - I never even thought or contemplated about writing before then. It just kind of slammed into me. I hear you all talking about how editing molds and shapes your work - how you look forward to it - but I just see it as a tedious task. BUT - instead of sending whole books - I can just send you a chapter at a time as I edit - because there's no sense in you having to waste your time editing something I've already caught. SO - if you really want to, I humbly fall at your feet and kiss your toes - because I really need the help. Let me know.

TINA: Thank you. :) I wonder if some day I'll have confidence in my writing, too. I'm like that with everything, though - I did a wedding cake last summer - my first wedding - and, panicking and hysterical, I called my sister-in-law and begged her to come over and tell me she wouldn't cry if that were her wedding cake - haha. And it was beautiful - I just can't see it. I'm a see all of my personal flaws kinda person.

JERRY: I keep hearing about flooding in North Dakota - are you North or South? Am I supposed to be worried about you right now? Because I am, and if I'm not I could use that energy elsewhere (haha). Take care, you.

TEEKAY: Well said. I was going to copy and paste the specific things you said so well, then I finished reading the entire post and decided the whole thing was perfect.

MELANIE: Welcome! Hope you can hang around a while and get to know this great group of people.

I saw that Themestream died - I saw it coming, though, when they lowered the pay from 10 cents to 2 cents.

EVERYONE: I LOVE my house!!! I'm so excited - I come home every night thrilled because I get to do something else to help finish putting it all together. I spent Saturday morning making curtains for the bedrooms - tonight I'm making Kaylee a new bedspread - I can't find what I'm looking for, and when I was buying the fabric for the curtains I saw it (the fabric)! I almost bought it then - but we needed curtains more - haha.

Well, I disappear for a couple of weeks and things go nuts around here - haha. Good thing I was gone, though, or I'd have been hip deep in it, too. (grin)

Okay - back to Song of Retribution (I suck at titles...forgive me.)


Heather Yeah, it's me again Thu Apr 12 23:23:07 PDT 2001

Melanie, I'm sorry I forgot to say WELCOME! Please stay a while, pull up some keys and join in this hopping place. You aren't alone. I know just how you feel - have been there myself; many of this group has. But come back and chat here with us and soon you'll find those cobwebby feelings of lonely-writer blues will drop away. Oh, JOY! Others who don't look at me strangely and wonder what I REALLY do with my time... (well, we really can't see you, honest, but there will be no strange looks anyhow)...

Tina and Teekay: LOVED YOUR POEMS for shortie night!
Mary, I thought your shortie's just fine the way it is.
A house that has everything exactly as we dream it is the house we build ourselves! (Main floor laundry, don't I wish... *biting knuckles*
Interesting shorties all 'round... but where are the rest of 'em?

Sasquatch, were you speaking of happiness? The thing that means to be content, and most humans have forgotten it?
I haven't. I should thank my lucky days that I haven't. Hang on a minute and I'm going to do just that.


Heather Thu Apr 12 22:52:13 PDT 2001

Just went back and noticed I missed a few posts -
CONGRATULATIONS, HALLEE! Way to go! I'm so happy for you, finishing another novel! If you want a proofreader to make sure you've got 'everything' just right in your first novel, make no bones about asking me! (Excuse me, please, I'm foaming down my chin)

And best of luck with finding an agent. I'm going to try striking it out on my own with Canadian publishers and see what happens before I try landing myself an agent.
But with that many books ready to go, I think it's wise of you to seek one.

All for now



Heather Thu Apr 12 22:45:40 PDT 2001

Hey, guys, yesterday I was going to say something, but by the time I finished reading the posts, I didn't bother posting anything...

but, I did want to say: If the U.S. didn't ALSO need China for trade as much as China seems to need the U.S. to trade TO, I'm sure there would be no such trade agreements. Remember that. The U.S. wouldn't have all those inexpensive items that China is so good at manufacturing for less than we can make the same items for. I understand that there is great concern with slave wages, or sweat shops and such, but we keep buying those items anyhow. We keep buying soccer balls too. (I'm talking about that expose on children working in sweat shops for some five cents a day... and I don't want to go there right now. Makes me shudder)

So, though the President may well have whispered in China's ear that the trading will stop if China gets its collective fur up (remember, this is a comment thought of before the U.S. apologized) but the U.S. has as much to lose by not trading with China. Name ten things in your house (besides furniture) NOT made in China. It's surprising, isn't it?

Well, maybe not.

I know Kmart and Zellers would not be open if it weren't for the products from China.

Anyhow, I just wanted to tell Ben something: I do not find you shallow. I think you know a lot more about politics than I do, so I won't go any further and comment on what was said; I will say that on some things I was nodding my head.
For those inclined to get hotheaded over political issues: Try to read posts concerning politics with a cool, ice-filled glass of tea on hand to press firmly against your foreheads, and then take twenty deep breaths and do five sets of finger exercises BEFORE making any remarks of your own. And read things twice to make sure they really said what they meant, and meant what you THOUGHT they said!
It's easy to think someone is saying something completely without reason until the post is read CALMLY, and we shall most times see that what they are saying has merit.

I don't want Americans to curl up and die at all. In fact, I very much enjoy the company of many an American person. I would like to forget about borders and differences for a while, and just meditate on the fact that we are all loving, breathing, thinking, and interesting, as individuals, and I don't think for a minute that any one single person can be a representation of their country as a whole. Their is no all-American boy, there is no all-Canadian girl. There is no absolute normal. If you look closely enough, you'll find that those all-American seeming boys you know really aren't stereotypes, aren't typical of anything except maybe average on a growth chart. Because we see and experience so much of other cultures these days, it's hard to NOT be influenced by other places, values, and customs. What is America, but an amalgamation of many races and peoples? What is Canada, but an amalgamation as well?

BUt then again, I'm probably way off topic...

As per usual.

Love to all, and all a happy and blessed weekend.
Including the Chinese people, who have intrigued me for years. I've even learned to write some Mandarin characters... But since there are no Kung-Fu dojos around, I've been immersing myself in things Japanese this past year or so...

Oh, alright. I'll shut down all topics for now.

I don't have a shortie for tonight, I'm going to go now instead, and do some writing on my novel. Christi, don't worry, I've got another bit... should be sizeable by early next week. (Break for Easter possible, if not very probable)

Trudy, where've you been???

Americo, are you out there, watching this pot stir itself?

It's kind of interesting, watching it boil over without any help on my part for once.


Jerry jerrag@dakota-web.com http://www.geocities.com/jericsson2000 Thu Apr 12 21:44:36 PDT 2001

Ok, well it has been one of those days. The kind where nothing goes right, I should have known better then to have started a stupid political thing here, every time I do this, it only turns out bad. If I pissed anyone off, I am sorry, if I pointed my finger at the wrong party, I am sorry. (Beginning to sound like the US Gov. Huh)

That said, I will get on with my life, my writing, and anything else that I can get on with.

The snow has finally melted, I went outside today with my toy digital camera. It isn't really a toy, but just one step above a toy. I found it on Ebay, a site I shall have to stay away from, as I usually buy things I don't need like this stupid camera. It has an all plastic body and no flash. It has a view finder much like the old 126 box camera's my mom used to use to photograph my sisters. (There are NO photographs of me until I turned thirteen years old but that is another story) The only controls on it are the power switch and the shutter button. It has a mini pizo speaker, and you run it by beeps. Two short beeps means you don't have enough light. Three short beeps means something else. One long beep means it took the picture when you pressed the button. Oh and if you forget to turn it off, it beeps about every minutes or so. You can take 24 pictures with it, then the little LED on the back lights up. You can continue taking pictures and the camera replaces them starting with picture number 1, and going forward. To get the pictures onto your computer, it came with two CD's full of software, some of which is kind of nice. It has a plug that you hook to the serial port, and the photo's download to your computer, and display on the screen. To clear the memory you have to remove the battery for a minute or so. It runs on a 9 volt battery, so there is no problem finding battery's when it runs out, in fact the Bureau keeps me supplied with rechargable 9 volt batteries for my TENS unit, so if I get in a pinch, I can use one of them I guess. I picked this camera up for 20 bucks plus 5 shipping, so if I use it once or twice, I think I will have my money's worth. I got it with plans of taking it along camping, and I think I will do that unless of course, I forget it. I seem to be more forgetful all the time, it is probably the pills. My Dr. has changed them again, as they quit working. Seems I wear out pain killers in six or eight months, and we have to rotate. I guess that is all right, so long as the bureau picks up the cost.

Oh well I ramble on again.

Have A fulfilling night.


Mary Thu Apr 12 21:19:01 PDT 2001

Pushed the publish button before I had gotten to read that over. It's pretty self explanatory that it was my shortie on discovery for tonight, but wish I hadn't hit that button so snappy.

Mary notdotcalm@yahoo.com Thu Apr 12 20:49:45 PDT 2001

The realtor practically drug us up the front steps of the old yellow house on Prospect Street. We had given her explicit details of what we were looking for and that house didn't even come close. We had been searching for months, increasingly frustrated. Some were too big, some too small, too choppy, too expensive, too 'just not us'.

My husband and I exchanged glances as we waited behind the realtor as she unlocked the door. Two deep breaths from us and we were inside. Ok, so the foyer was charming with its parquet floor and the oak stairs leading up to the second level, but there was no way I would like the rest of it at all. Well, the french doors weren't all that bad, and I could learn to live with the hardwood floor in the dining room. I caught my reflection in a huge mirror; the light from the bay window was very flattering. Bay window, "Well, wouldn't that be just the perfect place for our Christmas tree honey?"

"Sure would."

My husband and I held hands, following the realtor through the rest of the house. I could hear our future children bounding down the stairs and rested my hand on my growing belly.

"Gary, this is the first house we have looked at that had all the bedrooms on the same floor."

"Yes, but there is only one bathroom. You know we wanted two."

"I know, but it seems silly to give up other things that are right just because of a silly bathroom," I said.

"Well, you wanted a first floor laundry and this one is in the basement."

"I will just make you carry it all up and down the stairs."

"How did I know that was coming?"

I hugged my husband as tight as I could. "I love this house."

Gary turned to the realtor and smiled. "You heard the lady. Let's go talk numbers."

Teekay Thu Apr 12 20:48:49 PDT 2001

Hi All,

TO WHOEVER CARES: C'mon you guys. I love a great debate too, specially if I'm winning it, but you guys shouldn't get peed off (lookit that will you, peed off! When I actually mean pissed off, maybe I'm becoming refined *snort*) with each other over this.
The world will go to hell in a handbucket the way these governments carry on after all, they're only run by humans. It's up to each and everyone of us to rise above this sort of thing, not get into fisty cuffs aboout it.
This is all from the POV of a person who has had a reasonably peaceful life with very little pain or heartache who has good health and has never been hungry, never feared for my life or the lives of those I love and has always had choices.
Were it any different I may have a whole different outlook.

And no way am I apologizing - I'm big enough as it is. :-D

Okay, everyone join hands. "Kumba ya my Lord, Kumba yaaaaaaaaa. Kumba ya my Lord, Kum.........okay, who's that making farty noises?? Is that you BEN? DEBRA?"

BEN: You are so selfish. Everyone is selfish. And so it is written.

HALLEE: All the best to you. I'm sure you'll make it. I have great faith in your writing :-)

DEBRA: Funny? Moi? That's a relief :-)

RACHEL: Yes, I do that too, though I don't deliberately carry a notebbok around with me. Usually what I get are story ideas or maybe an opening line and then I jot it down on the nearest bit of paper I can find, but there are a lot of things I see that perhaps I should write down, but instead I record it mentally. Which suits me because that way I can conjure up the whole scene, weather, scents, sounds, emotions which I probably wouldn't get if I just jotted it down on paper and relied on that when the time came.

It took a long time,
a lifetime.
It took laughter and heartache,
love and hate,
She didn't do it alone,
there were others,
who helped
her to

Roight, tha's it, I'm orf. Daughter number one has made pancakes. *slobber* *drool*

Tina Thu Apr 12 20:28:40 PDT 2001

This just came to me. Moments like this I feel like a writer.


A sky of azure, topaz and lapis
Roams above a caldera valley
Where a glacier still sits in a frigid lake.
Blossoms of paintbrush, blood red
Goat’s beard, and purple lupine
Grow underfoot
Where bear, lynx and deer
Live in beat with the slow pulse
Of trickling melting glacier water.
Here, I will not find a car
Or a stereo blasting dissonant keys
Not a wall,
Nor a roof to shelter my lost faith
In my right to be me.
Here I will discover what it means to live
Under the sky
Above the ground
Among the pine trees and devil’s club.
Wild alpine wind will peel off the skin of society
Tearing away my self doubt,
And the notion that I am a stranger to myself.
In the mountain fresh water I am baptized
My soul is renewed.
At last I discover the truth of who I am.

© Tina Chambers
April 12, 2001

Hallee, my offer still stands about reading your books!

Rachel, I wish ideas came that often! Occassionally I'm gripped tightly by numerous ideas, but more often not. I'm green with envy! ((HUGS)) for Sebastian :-)

Must go take my dog for a walk. She's workin' hard on me, with those big brown eyes and alert pointy ears...

Jerry Thu Apr 12 20:00:01 PDT 2001

Mark - I put that up in my own defense, you see, I was accused unjustly of calling Ben a drunk, so I researched the accusation in the archives and found his response to something you said. I hope I don't anger you by posting that, but it is a direct cut and paste.

Since that time, Ben and I have come to an understanding, and buried the hatchet, so to speak. But if you are interested, you can check the archives back in mid January I think it was, or maybe early I don't recall for sure, but it was in there somewhere.


Thu Apr 12 19:44:47 PDT 2001

Mark mlenihan@stny.rr.com Thu Apr 12 16:38:53 PDT 2001

JERRY -- Whose post were you reading? I don't recall the 'drunk' remark you allude to. Only person I said that to was (well, I forgot who). Someone here wrote about having a drink to post here, having a drink to get off work, having a drink to stay up, having a drink to ... you get the point. and that was ?? two months ago ?? I said, man, if you have to drink to accomplish those things, then you have problems.

I did my thing with the drinking, and now I'm doing my thing with recovery. Sometimes I can spot a problem arising and sometimes I see it exaggerated. But I don't recall pointing my finger your way.

Jerry Thu Apr 12 16:16:48 PDT 2001

Discovery huh? Well I don't know how well this fits discovery, but I think it does. At any rate here it is:

by Jerry Ericsson
Things were not going well for Bob and Candy. It was a big change going from the life of a soldier and soldiers family to that of a rookie cop. Rookies have to work long hard hours, hours of training followed by hours of work. Candy felt like a widow, when Bob was at work, she worried for his safety, when he came home she worried at hers. The hours, the job, the loss of his status as a sergeant charged with the responsibility of all the men in his rifle platoon.

It was this feeling of loss that led her to her friendship with Becky, Becky was about her age, and Becky had recently broken up with her husband, who worked part time with the Department as a reserve officer. It was the loneliness the led them both to their meeting with the transient combiners who came to the farming community to hire out their machines to the local farmers at so much per acre. The combiners were not only transients but worse yet they were Mexicans. Candy was intrigued by their gentle ways and simply loved to hear them talk with their foreign accent. She knew too that should Bob ever learn of her affair, he would be so much angrier, what with his prejudice against Mexicans. Yes if he knew she was fucking a “Spic!” he would simply die, or maybe murder?

The night was long, and to battle the boredom and to help with all the combiners, Bob called in for a Reserve officer to ride along and assist. His beat that night took him past his home, but it wasn’t until nearly midnight that he found the time to swing by the house. As his headlights flashed the yard, he noticed an old yellow pickup sitting in his drive. He knew that pickup, it belonged to those frigging spic’s from the Grandon Crew.
He slowed the squad car, as he neared his home. As he passed, he saw one of the combiners coming down the stairs, he was hooking his belt as he walked down. The could only mean one thing, he was coming from HIS bedroom. He was screwing HIS wife! In anger, Bob swung the squad into his yard, blocking the exit of the pickup. He ordered Sam to remain in the squad, and call for backup if he thought it necessary. Sam had no idea what Bob was going to do, but he did as he was told, he remained in the car.

Bob kicked the door open, and with his .357 Magnum drawn, he raged into the kitchen!

There he saw the table with dirty dishes, and half eaten steaks on the plates. He heard giggling coming from the living room, and ran there. When he entered he saw his wife in an embrace with a Mexican.

“FREEZE SPIC!” he ordered, as he drew back the hammer on his revolver.

The face of the Mexicans turned white with fear, they had no idea what was happening, but he knew it could not be good.

Bob took a deep breath and slowly lowered the hammer.

“You fucking spic sons of bitches have five seconds to get the fuck out of my house, and five minutes to get the fuck out of my town” he screamed at the top of his voice.

The Combiners ran from the house, and seeing their pickup blocked in by the squad car, the ran as fast as they could away from the house.

“We will talk about this in the morning!” Bob said, as he left his house.

Strangely the next day, Bob and Candy talked, really talked for the first time since they left the army. That afternoon found Bob on the phone with his Army Recruiter. Some men simply belong in the Army, Bob was one of those men.

Thu Apr 12 15:31:05 PDT 2001

Teekay - I do and I don't have a notebook. That kind of depends on what you are asking. You may think that is a simple enough question to answser. It is not. I guess I could say that yes, I have a notebook. In fact, I have many. They come on disk and on paper. I tend to keep loose notes. I organize them in with the writing that they relate to at the time. When I am done with them, then they end up in a large stack. I sort the stack from time to time and put the notes with other stories that they may apply to. I have a file that I call "some thoughts" Isn't that original (grins)? It is full of little Rachelisms and things that are of interest to me. Lines that I plan for certain characters to speak, themes that sort of stuff. I bet that is what you are wondering about. I almost always have a nub of pencil and at least one sheet of paper on my person. I take notes all the time. I write poems when I'm out and about walking. Sometimes I'll whip off a short story in the middle of a hike. that sort of stuff. My husband is used to me giving little gasps and scrambeling around for paper and pencil while he is driving. He just doesn't like it when I do that while I'm driving (grin/wink). I'm kidding of course. I pull over if I feel the urge to write on my way someplace. do you get that? Do you ever just have an idea and don't want to wait even a moment to get it down? I find that if I wait I will often loose the flavor, scent and texture of the thoughts.

It's interesting that you should mention autumn leaves. In the novel that I have turned my writing to in the past few days I have opened up a whole autumn thing, leaves and all. I haven't worked on this novel in months. I've missed it.

I think that yah should ramble on as much as you like (smiles).

Take care you,


Rhoda Thu Apr 12 14:11:47 PDT 2001


You remind me so much of my father-in-law. For the most part you can take that as a compliment. Your wife must be a saint to put up with you, but I bet she will never be able to complain about her life being dull.


Jerry Thu Apr 12 13:18:45 PDT 2001

BEN - Ok, now you had me there for a bit, that bit about my calling you a drunk. Well since I have absolutely nothing better to do then find out what the hell you were talking about I researched it. Went back in the notebook and read until I found it, here is your reply to the person who called you a drunk:

A drunk. That's good. Now it doesn't matter what I say to defend myself, because you'll never believe it.
I know I said I wasn't going to post again until Thursday, but I had such a calm, peaceful night at work, that when I came home, I wanted to read these posts. I don't think having a couple of drinks when I come home at one in the morning is such a big deal. I don't do it regularly. But if I have a drinking problem, then I'll face up to it when it affects things in my life and it's too late to do anything about it--just like any other drunk would. Okay

Does that bring back any memories?

Maybe you were mistaken huh?

Anyhow, I don't come to this great site to fight, I come to be with my friends, and for awhile there I thought you were one. If you don't want to be, then that is just fine, I will no longer consider you one, but if that is so, it is your decision, not mine.


howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Thu Apr 12 12:59:36 PDT 2001

BEN - I never said I thought you were shallow. On the contrary, you demonstrate a depth in your writing that many of us do not often see.
I have no quarrel with you, though I may disagree with many of the things you said.
I am a USian, true, but I am not blind to the fact that many of the things this country claims as "sacred rights" are bogus - and better called greed. Until that is corrected, (and it can only be corrected by a change of heart) we'll continue on down the "slippery slope" to yet another wallowing in savagery. We can stave it off for a time with our paranoia, but barring divine intervention I believe it's inevitable.
The views I hold are not popular here, on either left or right, but I believe they hold up vertically, and that's where my true allegiance lies.

Jerry Thu Apr 12 12:21:12 PDT 2001

Ben - Do you have the right Jerry? Somehow I don't see myself calling anyone an alcoholic. I don't remember doing it anyhow, in fact I don't remember getting into a fight with you. I did get into a heated debate with Garrys during the election thing, but I don't recall anything with you.

At any rate, feel completely free to be a communist, it is no hair off my ass. In fact I think you would make a very good communist with your attitude. After all, you are quite good at trying to put out propaganda about others politics, you seem to enjoy running down the beliefs of others, and your support for the oppressive dictatorship that holds the people of China in a firm grip seems authentic.

I am of the age where I had to under go bomb drills in grammar school, you know drop, duck and cover. I remember the building of the Berlin Wall, in fact I have relatives who were in the Army Reserves who were activated during that crises. I recall the horror of a near nuclear hollocost when President Kennedy told the Russians to get their missiles out of Cuba. I remember President Kennedy's death at the hands of a pro communist looser, who had in fact defected to Russia, and only returned to murder a great man. I remember reading of the hanging of the black men in the South, I recall the hatred of racism. I remember being warned that if a black man is walking down the sidewalk, on the same side of the street as I was, to cross the street so as not to have my throat cut.

No, you can't tell me of the horror of repression in China, then compare it to our prison system. I have toured prisons, and in fact I was the administrator of two different jail facilities during my years as a police chief, and had to ensure that the prisoners were treated humanely, with ample room, comfort, and access to television, with free food and smokes, to keep them under control.

No, I don't think you can teach me anything new, and yes, I too would like to see pot legalized, but that is my personal opinion.


Hallee halleec@aol.com http://literaryagents.org Thu Apr 12 11:08:53 PDT 2001

Hi all! I'm going to go back through and read posts soon, but not today - I'm slammed busy.

Finished my book yesterday morning. This morning I started editing book no. 1 and pulled a list of agents currently accepting proposals from a very informative site - I've posted the link above. I found an agent from the list that does romance and women's fiction, so I'll be sending out a couple of letters to them today.

I have no idea what's going on or who's talking to whom or whatever...today is Thursday - I guess I'll get the theme at some point - maybe try to do one before I leave the office today.

It's good to be back - though it will be hard to catch up, I'm sure.

(smiles & hugs)

Ben Thu Apr 12 10:57:21 PDT 2001

I know I'm as shallow as a sink full of dish water in your eyes Jerry, and that doesn't bother me in the least--in fact, I didn't lose any sleep at all last night. We two just got off on the wrong foot right from day 1, and haven't even tried to get our balance again. No big deal to me, if it isn't to you? I meant no disrespect to you because you were waving your flag on Innaugeration Day--but you were all too willing to take it as such. But wasn't it you that implied I was an alcoholic? Without even knowing me as a person? And that just because I was having a drink that happened to be in the fridge--and purposely left for me there because I was on the afternoon shift and it was two o'clock in the morning? I think that was said because I said I didn't want to talk politics anymore--or maybe that was after, but that doesn't really matter anymore, does it; it's a moot point. But, living twenty minutes from the border, all I was watching was primary election coverage. Don't get me wrong about this, okay? THE WEST WING is one of the best shows on T.V., and pretty well the only show I go out of my way to watch, aside from hockey now that the playoffs are starting, but hey, I am Canadian, right?

But just one final word about China. I'm well aware of what goes on there in case you didn't know. But even if millions of Chinese want to leave the country--even millions and millions--isn't that still less than 1%? And you tell me their form of Communism isn't working? Is that an informed opinion, or a personal one? Sounds personal to me. Just like the sanctions against Vietnam. Geeze, last I heard the war was over. How long does one country punish another country for past trangressions? Isn't that what precipatated the second world war? I'm sorry there was a war in the first place--it should have never happened--and I'm sad for all the lives lost--and I in no way would say anything against anyone who served there (yes, even you), but the situation there is political, not personal. So one country holds another country down, and defeats it economically just because it happened to lose the war? Tell me it's not personal.

And while I'm at it, I'll even address Howard. Beatings and torture? Corporal punishment just ended over here when I was in tenth grade, sometime during the 70's. I work with a guy who used to be a prison guard, and everything that happens over there, used to happen over here on a regular basis. Now it's down to a minimal, but it's still going on. But now, if they have a real problem with someone they don't like, they either beat him the moment he walks through the door, or they put him out in general population. The only reason we know anything about what goes on in the prisons over there is because of Ammnesty International. Have you ever seen the show OZ on H.B.O.? Tell me you want to go to prison in the States? Repression of its citizens? I used to have a penpal when I was a kid, wrote to her right up until she got married, or there about. She lived in Bulgaria. She was fully indocrinated into the Communist Ideal--much the same way the children in China are, and much the same way we are on this side of the world. Nuture and environment. Remember? You say po-tay-to, I say po-tah-to. And as for religion, well, since spending ten years researching early Christian religion and getting deep enough into it to come to a point in my life where I think it's easier just to swear the whole thing off--and this is after being raised a good little Catholic boy--I'd rather not dicuss the "Opiate of the Masses" and have everyone here after my hide. But if you really think the people in China don't worship the old gods, just like the people in Russia didn't still follow Mother Church, then I guess your belief in the sensitivity of Mankind isn't as strong as you first thought it was. People will always believe in God and the gods--you can't take that away from them. Oh yes, and if there was over one billion people living in the U.S., would you not support Abortion and State Controlled Family sizes? I wonder, would there be enough food to feed everyone? Why is that even a question? I'm sorry, forgive me, but with one billion people and the population still growing, don't you think drastic measures were needed just for the survival of everyone? As it is, you have earthquakes and natural disaster where they claim the lives in the tens of thousands--and we're talking fifty to eighty thousand here. I once heard a Chinese official talking on some news magazine show, and when someone mentioned the population problem and the drastic measures China was taking to try and keep it under control, the man looked at the interviewer and asked him if he wanted to take a couple of hundred million Chinese off their hands to make things a little easier. Do you? And of course its State control of physical resources, isn't that what Communism is in the first place?

Like I said, you guys are looking at this with your own personal slant on things. If you lived over there, would you know any different? It's nuture and environment. Land of the Free and home of the Brave isn't what works for everyone I guess, even if we'd like to think it should.

Oh yes, and Jerry btw, back in the 30's it was the Dominion of Canada, a part of the British Empire--re: Imperialism?

So, have I upset you guys all over again? :-) I have to put one of those things there just so you know that I'm laughing, I guess. Like you said, I'm shallow, and the sooner you think that and remember it everytime you read me, the easier it will be for you. I don't take life too seriously, but I guess you do. I don't take politics seriously either, and religion not at all--much to my wife's dismay. Just call me a godless heathen, she does--she cries for my soul like Kay Corleone in "The Godfather".

I believe in doing unto others as you would have them do unto you; I believe in the sanctity of marriage, and the love that exists between a man and a woman, and that the bond should never be broken. I'm not selfish; I'm not greedy; and I'm not afraid to give an opinion if I feel the situation warrants it. I'm sort of like Mark, only not quite old enough to be a hippie. (I believe Pot should be legalized too, but that's because I live in B.C. and we have great stuff here.) I believe in the Aboriginal rights of the First Nations--and don't think that hasn't gotten me into trouble.

But more than that, more than anything anyone thinks, or any opinion anyone voices, I believe in myself as a person and a writer, even though no one around me does (as a writer I mean). I'm laughed at, and ridiculed by those I work with. They call it a pipedream as much as they call me a loser. They think that if I do write a book, that if I do become successful, that I'll be retiring and they'll move one step up the ladder on the seniority list, and that's the only reason they want me to succeed, if they do at all. If I publish a book, I will instantly become as rich as Stephen King, because every writier is rich, right?

So now let me go write something, because I've spent far too much time here all ready--I know Jerry thinks that, and probably Howard now too. But I don't care what they think, remember? I'm shallow.

howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Thu Apr 12 10:04:56 PDT 2001

"outreach librarian?" "OUTREACH LIBRARIAN!!" Fellow notebookers, remove thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest has just been kicked up a notch! Welcome MELANIE! :-)

MARK - Good to see you back in the mix! I've gotta agree with you on that Chinese pilot. Too bad he had to self-destruct like that (if he really did). A life wasted is not a thing to take lightly, no matter who it is.
Another correspondent remarked that "our plane shouldn't have been there...it's time that the Department of Defense got back to the business of defense." I think, though, that it's a bit ineffective to mount a defense without knowing exactly what we're defending against.
Didn't know you flew in a B52 - closest I ever got to one was handling the secure net traffic when we lost the one in the Med off Spain.

SASQUATCH - you can be a bit hard to follow, and it takes a while to read your posts, but I think I got the gist. Does your yeti memory go back to the first Easter? Were you there?

ALL - I'll have only this connection at work for the next few days (and no email), until I relocate my home computers and cable modem into the upstairs bedroom. We're expecting our friend to come next week, barring more complications. It's been an interesting experience so far, especially the interaction with the Medicaid (and other insurance) people! They don't really want to talk to me because I don't yet have power of attorney over his affairs. You can't even do something good for someone you care about without getting into legalities! What a world we live in!

Oh well, Sunday's coming!

Melanie Thu Apr 12 08:03:12 PDT 2001

To All: Even your political discussions are inspiring! :-)People all over the world will maintain differing opinions and life philosophies. But as writers we express ourselves in print and readers sit down in their easy chairs and read our words and maybe even take time to think about those words. From such "innocent" undertakings as our mss., greater works may take fire by those who are best at political shaking and moving - we CAN change the world! It won't happen overnight; thus, one of the reasons I write: to give people escape, during this seemingly hopeless period of semi-chained chaos, and to give people a brighter vision of how things could be.

And as an outreach librarian, I have learned there are a GREAT many folks out there who do read books with a hunger that is never satiated. Some are kept awake all night by chronic or debilitating health problems - they READ all night. Some are no longer able to participate in their beloved hobbies - they READ all day. Some care for the elderly housebound - they READ to them and to themselves on a break from caregiving. Some care for children during the day - they READ to the kids. Some can't get to the library when it's open due to their work schedules - they pop a book-on-tape or book-on-CD into their car players and READ that way on the way to work or on the way home. All these voracious readers, beyond those who are able to walk into their local libraries and find your books on the shelves to READ. ***Whatever you believe, keep writing about it and about other things - there are people out there who are desperate to read all about it!*** (I should take my own advice!)

To Allein and Rachel: Thanks for your good words. :-)


Viv Thu Apr 12 06:43:35 PDT 2001

Thanks Jack! Well said, well thought out! I liked the historical slant on these issues. Interesting and you are right. Hey, guess what happened to me today. I asked if I could have a computer room to teach that there were templates in Microsoft Word to my Business Writing Students. I had in mind a single day. Everyone was very kind. They scheduled my class IN THE COMPUTER ROOM FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR! I get to teach the entire class on computer. This gives me much more to do that will be absolutely 100% more appealing. We can do sooo much. Also I can show them Excel and everything else I don't know well!!!!

Worse all the commands and the helps are in Japanese. Worst yet, most people assume I know a lot because I'm American and American's know a lot about the computer! This is going to be a really fun semester. I have until Thursday to learn the wizards commands and all the basic ideas in Japanese commands. Luckily they are in the same location and by using my laptop and comparing a 97 program, I can pretty much figure it out.

Our newness to computers here in Japan is strange isn't it. I think it's because the Japanese export most products and only a few people recognized that computers were able to be learned by those with less that genius level I.Q.'s. Now we're cooking! I'll bet we're up to speed soon! Still, it's awful nice that no one caught on that the templates on Microsoft word are so easy to access! I got that classroom all to myself for the entire year. Can you imagine!

Debra Thu Apr 12 06:36:17 PDT 2001


Oh Teekay, how funny are you?

Mary Thu Apr 12 06:25:43 PDT 2001

Shortie Night Tonight!


can't wait can't wait

Rhoda Thu Apr 12 05:26:27 PDT 2001


Chinese spi planes probably look at Los Angeles all the time as well as Russian planes, but we have never brought any down. We probably could anytime we wanted to.

Never intended to cast slurs on anyone, the Chinese people or even the Canadians. When I spoke about the Chinese in my previous post, I meant the government of Mainland China, not the multitude of good people within its borders who have no say in how policy is done, and certainly not the Chinese people who live in the US, Taiwan, and all over the world.

I really have no problem with anyone. As far as the Chinese government is concerned they are who they are, but why must the United States be expected to embrace a serpant to its bosom? But then I suppose whatever evil or bad thing befalls us, we richly deserve.


Ben Thu Apr 12 01:48:44 PDT 2001

I'm man enough to say I apologize...so...sorry :-)

Teekay Wed Apr 11 23:20:44 PDT 2001

BEN: Forgot to put a smiley face next to my last post to you. So, here 'tis. :-) :-) :-), the other two are interest.

Reading over my last post I can forgive anyone who had an imagine of a dribbling half wit dressed in hippy clothes (with a half empty bottle of vodka tucked secretly beneath the voluminous folds of her dress, which BTW had never been washed, except for the time she fell drunk into the river) appear in their heads, coz I'm really not like that at all.

In actual fact I am a smelly old man who has a really bad habit of chasing cars and picking my nose. I am very open minded however.

You never would have guessed it would you?

Teekay Wed Apr 11 23:12:44 PDT 2001

Hi All,

BEN: . It's a sad world when you lose face for saying I'm sorry. Personally I wouldn't have thought any less of the president, in fact I would have felt him to be a great human being.
Didn't look for any offence, didn't find any offence, but it simply wouldn't be me to not go and spread my little pearls of wisdom. :-)

RHODA: I'm not much of a Chinese supporter re: politically, but when does a man's life become lower than honour?
Is honour not merely a form of pride?

HEATHER: Ditto! And I hope nobody else gets hurt.

CHRISTI: I love your take on foreign policies and I am now putting your name forward for the next president.
Just think, all the oreos and pringles you could desire. Ah, the perks of ruling the world, or part of it.

BEN: I think maybe it'd be better if we all smoked pot and told happy stories and grew beans and ate fish from the sea.
Oh, wait a minute, better ask the fish what they think first. Don't wanna go exploiting the fishies.
Oh yeah, and the beans, beans have feelings too you know.

For any impressionable minds I've got to say I was joking about the pot bit.

RACHEL: Thanks :-) and well said. Do you carry a notebook with you?
I don't, but I was thinking (yes, again) that I sort of record everything mentally. Like today, i was driving along (thinking about the meaning of life and wether to get McDonalds or K.F.C.) when a scurry of autumn leaves blew across the road, and I recorded that, and I know that at one stage of my writing everything I see that makes an impression to me will come alive again in something I write.
Okay, I just read that back to myself and it sounded a bit like an insane ramble, but I heard that it's okay to write crap - which is very lucky. :-D

MARK: YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! I was wondering where you'd gotten to.

JERRY: What you don't know, you can't miss.

We all think of ourselves as caring human beings ( well, most of us do) but really, how caring are we? Self preservation obviously rules. Man is fundamentally selfish. He has to be to survive I guess, for he who is without this selfishness would simply lay down and die of sorrow with all the heartache and heartbreak that takes place in this world.
Think about it, it's sad but true.
For utopia to exist we must all care more about the other person, all the other persons. Yeah, like that's gonna happen any time soon. But it's worth trying for, don't you think?

Looking back I think that maybe I've filled my crap quota with this post.
But, you know what they say, one man's crap is another man's really smelly foot if he steps in it.
Yeah, no kidding, they do say that. It had it's origins in the era before shoes were invented, or before toilets were invented, I'm not sure which.

Jerry Wed Apr 11 21:36:43 PDT 2001

Oh, Ben, where were the Canadians when Japan invaded China in the 30's?

Jerry Wed Apr 11 21:23:53 PDT 2001

You know when I first got ICQ (several years ago now) and ICQ was yet a young idea, I began to chat with a young man in China. He told me stories of his life, and I told him stories of mine. He was amazed to hear that I married when I was only 18 years old, he said he was required to wait until he was (I believe it was) 26 years old. We chatted for several months before he disappeared from ICQ. He called me Uncle, which he explained is how they refer to anyone who is older then they are, a sign of respect for elders if you will. It was fun, and very informative for both of us, we spoke of how we viewed each others nations, and I think we were both surprised at what we learned.

He loved his nation, much as I love mine, he never expressed any desire to leave and come to America (yes Ben we Americans all think that everyone would love to live here) yet he did say it would be nice to be able to merry young, and have a large family, like his ancestors did. He explained that they are not as poor as I would believe from the television stories.

I guess we American's are proud of our country, much the same way as you who live in other nations are proud of yours, and rightfully so. I don't think we are aragont, although we, like any other nation do have our fair share of those who are. I don't think we look down our noses at other nations, or at least I don't. I have visited Canada many times, met many wonderful folks from there, in fact some of my very close friends used to come down to New Rockford ND (where I worked on the PD as Chief) to run the giant steam tractors at our steam thrashers reunion. They loved Canada, much as I love the US. They complained at the government's policy of disarming their population and longed for the old days when they could freely trade firearms for their hunting needs. But overall none of them wanted to stay down here. I have met many visitors from other nations, such as Germany, and Australia, who loved visiting the US, but were anxious to return home to the nation that they loved.

But in the end, I am so happy that this hostage situation is over, and that our troops are on their way home, without a loss of life (except for their pilot) ((Was his name wrong way?))

I am pleased and very proud of our great President for his leadership in such a stressful situation, I think he has proven himself more then his fathers son.

Well sleep is fighting for control of my old aching body, so I will end this madness and head off to share our comfortable queen sized bed with my lovely wife.

Good night all.


Rachel Wed Apr 11 21:04:50 PDT 2001

Mark - A big hug for you!

Mary Wed Apr 11 20:19:21 PDT 2001

sasquatch: Thank you my big furry fellow. (((Hugs)))

Mark Wed Apr 11 20:15:30 PDT 2001

BEN -- Yup. I'm American, but I'll have to agree that on average we tend to talk about freedom then expect others to be free to walk our way.

CHRISTI -- Traditions can be fun, but it takes a crowd to bring it off. In the first few years of our marriage, Cate and I had a traditional Easter Surf and Turf dinner with four to six friends. We moved, they moved, we came back, we moved, they came back they moved, we are back again, they are still away. Haven't had Surf and Turf for Easter in 15 years. We still call it our tradition, but we don't carry it on with anyone (even ourselves).

RHODA -- They were spies. They got caught. Reverse the positions. How would you feel if we caught a Chinese "Intelligence" plane surveying California. And if one of our fighter jockeys pulled a cowboy manuever which touched the Chinese plane, would he be a good pilot? and if it cost the fighter jock his life, would it be someone else's fault?

Your post starts with a big Capital Letter "NOT." Kinda hard to believe anything balanced follows that.

BALANCE -- Speaking of balance. The evening news indicates that the American fliers are on the way home. Press coverage indicates that we issued a statement which reads acceptably in English to the American public and acceptably in Chinese to the Chinese public. Sounds good to me. Both sides being out of place there.

CANADA -- I like Canada. The Canadian hero is a mountie. Most American heros are outlaws. In the Iranian hostage crisis, Canadian embassy personnel got quite a few Americans out of that hotspot.

I remember most of a night in Toronto when I was 26. I got invited home by two Canadian women after an evening of too much Molson and too many roast beef sandwiches. As I sat on the couch to take my shoes off, the owner of the apartment (the blonde) came from the bedroom to say, "We never talked about sex." The evening's chaperone was a young Chinese woman. (I always thought 'chaperone' meant something else.)

When I was in a B52 over VietNam, I had friends who were in Canada. In many ways they were more honest than I was. I was only there to get the GI Bill and go back to college. My single B52 experience came on the mission that got hit by a VC SAM. It's really eerie to watch a plane disappear and hear no noise. Quite a few of our brave American boys refused to fly until it got safer up there. Safer? One bomber down in six years? I know I'm out of place. I was ready to go back up and see what happened next. Not any particular bravery. Certainly not any sense of patriotism (always was and still am a hippie at heart). Nope. Just a wild-hair curiosity. Didn't matter. There were no flights for days and I was just a reporter from a Mississippi base newspaper.

Well, sorry kids. I don't know if all that made any sense or not, but I just can't get excited up to shouting levels about boys who go up in airplanes and fall down when they play too hard.

sasquatch Wed Apr 11 19:42:57 PDT 2001

hello persons i sasquatch watch this talk with interest. i sasquatch and all Yeti have special warm for this people you say chinese. we have another name but i cannot speak it. i sasquatch in Yeti memory know this peoples from before the light persons are come. and there was bad and good then also. this peoples is a different peoples with long memory and hard to change. light persons do not think as these for they are too quickly to come to decide/know/understand but they do not really. only think they do and cause much troubles in their not understanding. but these are not alone in doing wrong things. some of these chinese humans persons we have warm for have become different also and bring bad things to so many of their peoples. sasquatch friends may not like after but i sasquatch must speak this as Yeti have memory that all humans persons have some wrong in them and we see in all memory the bad things all humans persons do to another humans persons only because they want, or for color of hair or eyes or skin, or for what they eat, or for any things not the same. most because they are not as we tell our word which means content. i can not say this word either for reason humans persons have lost what it has meaning of and do not any more understand it. some humans persons do try to change but their way has become as a leg is broken and does not get all right again and is not straight. this makes a different way to walk and can not walk right with out help. but if all have bad legs who can help walk right? i sasquatch can not put into right words but know this is not the way it was to be. please to forgive if i have hurt feelings. i must go.

Wed Apr 11 19:04:10 PDT 2001

p.s. It is probably time to archive. Or soon will be. However, I will likely not be near the internet when that happens. So, come next Monday I will archive, or maybe a bit sooner. We will see. Also, in reading over what I wrote below I discover some very interesting mistyping that subtly change the meaning of what I intended. I will leave it as is, but interesting what the fingers will do.

Jack Beslanwitch jack@webwitch.com http://www.norwescon.org Wed Apr 11 18:55:10 PDT 2001

Hello all: If anyone is going to Norwescon 24 then please feel free to stop by the Westercon56 Bid Table It should be a fun weekend and have a lot of different events, programming and other features. I will be an attending panel participant and will be holding forth at several panels on different subjects and doing a bit of fannish schoozing.

Also, tipping my toe in the waters of controversy. The Americans have been present in the history of either Japan or China from the middle of the nineteenth centure both for ill and for good. This has included colonial activities that contributed ultimately to the Boxer Rebellion and 99 days in Peking as well as often times misguided attempts to change Chinese culture on the part of American missionaries to China. However, by the same token, there were may who did many humanitarian efforts towards the Chinese and still others such as Pearl S. Buck that attempted to corrected injustices caused both by the Chinese and by the Americans. During the thirties, you need to bear in mind we were very isolated and very focused on pulling our economy out of its wreck. Roosevelt would have had no luck sending troops against the Japanese in China any more than he would have had luck getting the Congress to allow him to send troops to Europe against the Nazis. However, during this same period you can look at the Flying Tigers. And while all of this was going on you had shifting alliances both within the Kuomintang, the Communist party and the war lords, wary to deal with the Japanese and still come out on top and be the one element within that society that had the mandate of heaven. The current situation is a complicated one as well. The current regime is like a toad on a lilly pad trying to keep control when that lilly pad is sit on top of the Pacific Ocean. When they came to power they were intent on getting control of agriculture and other portions of the economy to end famine. In that they have succeeded in large measure. They have enforced draconian fertility laws to that effect. But, by the same token, they have liberalized their economy and as such are repeasing whirlwinds of change they are ill suited to deal with. Converting a command economy to a market economy is not easy. And add to that the large presance of the Chinese military both as a military entity and as an economic enterprise and a conservative anchor on the possible changes available. The current crisis was very much a game between competing interests, trying to find the exact right magic words that one side would perceive as an apology and the other side could barely claim was not.

In the end, America will continue to monitor, perhaps the cat and mouse game of airial spying will be more formalized so that mid air crashes will not happen, business will continue so that individuals and corporations on both sides will make money. And the biggest prediction of all, there will be change. At some point if prosperity does continue and education is allowed and free exchange of ideas is allowed ala the internet, you will get even more change. Let me rephrase that, whatever happens, there will be lost of change. It is just not clear of what kind and how fast

Rachel Wed Apr 11 18:48:24 PDT 2001

Teekay - All will be well with you writing (hugs). I have times when I don't write as much. I don't stress about that. I consider all of life as writing. It all pours into me and then I in take it in, mull it over and in time I see it come back on out. Hum, the writers digestive system. I could write about that. So, I wonder if I in essence just said that what I write is crap? Yikes! All kidding aside, I believe that in your heart you know what you are and are not. If you are a writer, then you are a writer. Being published, or writing thousands of pages doesn't make one more of a writer than another. It just means that one is getting paid and recognized for their efforts. The other is not.

Allein - Hey layyyyyyyyyyyydeeeeeeeee, how are yah? Sebastian sends you a big, wet kiss. Uck! Look out, snot! He has a bit of a cold, sorry about that (grins).

Melanie - Hi you. I also once felt alone with my writing. I had no idea how many writers there were kicking around. You are not alone (great big smile)!

Christi - You are such a sweetie! Hugs for yah:)

Ciao, ciao, ciao!!!!!!


Jerry Wed Apr 11 16:49:26 PDT 2001

Geeze Ben, I had no Idea you were so, what deep, shallow, I am not sure, just didn't know you were so.

To start with, communism is not working in China, just as it is not working in Cuba. As far as sanctions, well you are right, it does hurt the people, and not the government, unless of course the people get upset enough to overthrow the governement, which is of course what we want to happen.

Sanctions against VietNam, of course I think we should keep sanctions against them, hell we lost a war to them why the hell would we want to give them money or any help whatsoever. Do you see Japan or Germany sending aid to us? How about the native americans, do you see them sending checks to the federal governemnt?

Why do millions of Chinese want to come to America, simply because their government is represive. Maybe they want to have BOTH a girl baby and a boy baby. My god, do you realize what you are saying? I didn't think so.


Viv Wed Apr 11 16:21:52 PDT 2001

Hey guys...here's my shortie:

When the American's sank the Japanese sub there was a lot of anger. Everywhere I wentthere were glares and negative comments about Americans. People would cross their arms, narrow their eyes, and look at me. Sometimes it went beyond that. There were the slobs who spat as I passed. The kids hear the parents talking and react too. My daughter got in a fight.

It reached its peak. I really felt terrible. What is strange is my friends began to call me. They invited me to lunch. One teacher I scarcely knew took me to campus and helped me get a library card. She showed me where the teacher's dining room was located. She helped me input my data into the computer and gave me tips about how to use it better. She took me to the media center and helped me get to know the people there. Just in case someone here is lurking.....it's Sakai sensei!

It was strange how suddenly people realized how tough it was getting for the Americans in Japan.

Although no one means to, it's easy to frown when you see someone oriental when the Chinese are out of favor. If you see an oriental person on the street...give him a smile. Hold open a door...just make a small gesture to show that these are politics and he/she is a person. Show the difference in your behavior. This sounds weird because there are Oriental Americans, Oriental Canadians, and Oriental Australians. Seems like we will automatically do that. Still, the expression on your face as you think about the current political situation can change. Be careful to smile. Body language is soooo important.

Just a weird point of view. I'm not even sure if stuff like this happens in Canada and Australia. I know I was guilty of it waaaaay back in the 70's when "camel jockey" was a "funny" thing to say. and there were lots of jokes about Saudi Arabians and cruise control. You look back on stuff like this and go, "Rats!"

If you have an oriental friend, might be a good day to go out for lunch or have dinner together with family, especially if they have children.

It made a huge difference.

Rosemary Wed Apr 11 16:07:53 PDT 2001

The main thing about your tirade that bothered me was that you think we should apologize wheather we did anything wrong or not. In that case, anyone, person or nation that did that, their apologies would be worthless. It even sounds like their word would be worthless. How could you ever trust them?

Did anyone else get the wierd e-mail from the illitrate freak? (his/her name, not mine.) Probably shouldn't mention it, will just encourage it.

By for now,

howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Wed Apr 11 15:46:28 PDT 2001

BEN -- If repression of its citizens is success, if beating, torture, suppression of any form of religion except worship of the state; if forced abortion, forced reduction of family size, complete state control of physical resources, thought, movement, are all seen as hallmarks of success, then I guess I'm living in the wrong world. Totalitarian control of a citizenry is not my idea of a "successful" state. But I may be wrong.

Rhoda Wed Apr 11 14:52:04 PDT 2001

I could say a lot of critical things about the Canadian government, but I never have, and I will not start now. Anyway it isn't fashionable to bash Canada.

Rhoda Wed Apr 11 14:44:27 PDT 2001


I am sorry for that last post. I should know better than to throw pearls before swine. Americans will never do anything right in the eyes of the Canadians except curl up and die.

I hate political discussions here. Please don't hold it against me that I am a conservative Republican with very old fashioned values and much pride in my country (God forbid! Americans should never have that). I know, I should hang my head in shame because of all the evil we have done and are doing to the world, but alas, I cannot. Until Canada proves itself to be superior morally and otherwise, I can't bring myself to grovel before her self-righteous citizenry.


Allein peachick2000@hotmail.com http://members.fortunecity.com/peachick2000 Wed Apr 11 13:40:25 PDT 2001

Melanie - Hi!! Glad you decided to join in, the more the merrier. :) Big welcome smile!

On the Chinese thing - I think we should do what little kids do - say we're sorry but have our fingers crossed behind our backs the whole time.
Joking of course. Actually, I hope it doesn't escalate too much because I have a very good friend in China (a pen friend actually but we've been writing for 6 years) and I hope that our friendship is strong enough to stand this.
And kisses for Sebastian. :)

Melanie melanieh@flls.org Wed Apr 11 12:42:16 PDT 2001

I have just read through 10 days' worth of the Notebook and I must say - you are all quite special. I've felt alone in the writing world for quite awhile - the husband doesn't write, altho' our 17-yr-old writes poetry for his punk band and my 10-yr-old draws pictures of superhero-characters he creates, the other three kids do their own things...and a writing cousin of mine who used to be like a sister to me recently changed her personality and kicked me verbally in the gut...so, I have been "alone" and on writing-sabbatical for about a year now. The characters and their lives are vividly alive in my head - I just have trouble switching from the daily grind back to those glorious moments of writing-frenzy. I have gained much inspiration from you-all today and just want to say - thanks, from my buried soul.


Ben Wed Apr 11 12:31:06 PDT 2001

Well, looks like I was long winded and critical for nothing. But I still like the American attitude toward Communism. "We love the free world, but heaven forbid you should go against the way we think it should be done..." He-he-he. God it's great to be a Canadian, and that's as patriotic as I've ever been. First time I've actually said that too.

Ben Wed Apr 11 12:19:46 PDT 2001

Whoa: Now I knew I was gonna stir up a world of trouble here, and really, I'm waiting for it. I was expecting it. It's like I'm the one poking a stick into the hornet's nest. All I have to say is that America, as a country, can no longer think it can stand alone no matter what the individual citizens might think. In this day and age of globalization and immediate media access to everything we think, say and do, individualtiy as a nation must be the price we pay. Isolationaism is no longer possible. China was once an isolationist country, as were Japan and America, but that wasn't because of any reason other than distance and communication.

China and Japan were looked at as treasures of the east, much like India was the Jewel in the Crown, with untold resources and cheap labor, they were countries the West felt they could exploit, and did. Do you no think, that with all that history, the Chinese are going to forget? The Chinese think differently than we do. All the Eastern countries do. They think generationally, and if they can't have something now, they will wait it out until their ancestors are in a position to benefit from it.

Americans think differently than the rest of us. They believe they have a right to call themselves the greatest country in the world. I suppose it's a right of some sort, but every other country in the world might have something to say about that. I'm sure Litter has a lot more to say about that. And young Richard. Teekay? So with a situation where a country feels it is beneath them to apologize just to appease world peace, what will happen? Using Hitler was a bad example I think, because he was a madman right from the get go. He would have saved the world a whole lot of heartache if someone had shot him right from the beginning. But by dealing with him, the British were trying to keep the peace; they were willing to let him have what he had and back down. He just broke his word.

The whole problem with what you said though Rhoda, is right there in the first paragraph..."but not at the price of our honor." We can teach our children to turn the other cheek and do the honourable thing, but as countries, we will go to war over issues that mean nothing in fifty years time. The honour of the world was really put to the test a hundred years ago with the first world war. Honour.

Steal technological secrets? And do you think America hasn't stolen its share of secrets? Do you feel the embargo against Vietnam is the right thing to do? And Cuba? Are trade sanctions against any country the answer? If you wish to withhold your own trade from that country, fine. But the only problem with that is, it is not the government of that country which suffers, but the populace. The hospitals go without essential medication, the children die. No big loss I guess, it's all done in the name of freedom and democracy.

By entering a state of hostility with the US...the Chinese would crush them. Plain and simple. Look at the numbers. What would you do with all the Chinese citizens who live stateside? Internment camps again? The States can not win with hostilities, and thank God the leaders know that!

The Chines have never respected or had good will towards the States? And why do you think that is? Where were the States when the Chinese were invaded by Japan in the thirties? Where was that helping hand they are so proud of extending--oh, but not to a country that is undergoing a revolution and trying to promote that style of government so feared by the greatest democracy in the world. Communism! Oh quick, run and hide. The commies are coming. And why is it the Chinese are at least able to succeed with it? So what. So they are a Communist country. Does it effect you? They have child labor, granted, we have illegal aliens who get nothing as far as wages go. We have drug abuse problems, teen age gangs and prostitution; for everything that anyone has to say about what they feel is wrong with one country, they should stop and look at their own. The war on drugs? Hello?? Anybody see TRAFFIC? Pretty lame as far as I was concerned.

You cannot deal with a country that has no repsect for you...and where is America's respect for China? Ah-so, I thought not. Why should America respect China you ask? They're Communists. Communists don't deserve anyone's respect. Well, as Communists who actually made it work, yes, they deserve a lot of respect. Like Castro. All the other Communist countries fell apart except these two.

The Chinese have abused what? The American political and economic system? Remember, the Chines think differently than we do. They think generationally? Whereas you might forget the past, they certainly will not. America has done its fair share of abusing no matter what you may think. Just ask the rest of the world. We all have our little stories. Like I said last night, we should just turn off the power and shut off the taps. Where do you think it all comes from? We're the country with all the resources, remember?

I'm sorry I got carried away with this, but God I love a good debate sometimes. I know this is not supposed to be a forum for political debate and I apologize once more.

If anyone does not like my remarks, I stand humbly before you with hat in hand and head bowed. You may punish me by not talking to me and shutting me out. But that will be a great loss to us all.


Christi Wed Apr 11 12:01:07 PDT 2001

Hi good buddies!

Rachel, Yup, I still think that's one of the nicest compliments I've ever gotten. Thanks! It's an interesting way to think of people.
I'm so glad that Sebastian likes his fairy kisses. Being a fairy godmother is a blast!

On racism:
It was odd for me to find out that my parents were raised with racism, because they taught us to respect everyone for their different cultures and beliefs, and to love those differences. The first time I heard my grandmother say, "The neighborhood went to pot once THOSE people moved in," I nearly dropped the yummy chocolate chip cookie she'd baked for me. All I could think was, 'Not MY grandma!'
And now that I'm grown I still think it's shocking. I have a lot of respect for my parents for teaching us things they were never taught.

Congrats, Heather! Keep on tossing those pages out!

Ben, I love hearing about your family. Your wife sounds hysterical!

Teekay, I just love your posts!!! And it looks to me like you're back on the writing-horsie, girlie. Yeeeeehaw!

Wow. I've come to the conclusion that our Easters are extremely boring. We've never formed any kind of tradition for Easter. Maybe I should start one ... next year. (Sounds like a LOT of work!)

Randall, Sometimes I really love Mormons. Sometimes I want to scream, "LIGHTEN UP!!!" at them. I can say that, because most of my family are Mormon.
(Note to Teek. I'm ignoring your earlier comments on the subject ... well I'd like to, except it was flippin' hilarious! Hee!)

Mary, Me too, me too! I adore Pringles and Oreos, and I wanna move in tooooo!

Here's my take on US foreign policy and all things political. (I will try to make this a regualar feature for everyone's enjoyment. Here goes.

THe end.
(Call me Switzerland. Shrug.)


PS No disrespect intended! Honest. It's not that I don't care, I just don't think this is the place for it.
Going now.

Jerry Wed Apr 11 11:56:29 PDT 2001

Ok, now the hostages are coming home from China. It is said that President Bush apologized to China for our plane landing without permission from the control tower.

If this is so, why didn't we do it earlier?

Is this the only thing that caused the release?

I think it was more. I think the President whispered in the ear of the Chinese Ambassador "NO MORE TRADE!"

I wonder, perhaps we will never know, perhaps we will in ten or twenty years, but it is enough that they are coming home.

Myself, I will look at the label of anything and everything I buy in the future to insure it is not made in China. That's just me, but I do hope everyone else in the US does the same.

We have to remember that it was the Chinese who killed so many of our heroic soldiers in Korea. It was the Chinese who armed the enemy in Viet Nam. We have not claimed the Chinese as an alley since the Communists took over, and the Communists are still in power there. Since the end of World War II, our enemy has been the Communists, and we should keep that in mind. I would be more then pleased if our President would close all trade relations with the Chinese.


heather Wed Apr 11 11:54:10 PDT 2001

I'm sorry, Rhoda, et al., but I didn't find George W. very commanding of respect in the first place!
So Bush kissing the collective ass of China wouldn't surprise me. But he'll probably be advised not to.

I don't care what happens as long as nobody presses any large red buttons.


Rhoda rfort@familynet.net Wed Apr 11 07:15:28 PDT 2001

My prayers go with those 24 service men and women held captive by the Chinese.

BUT apologize?----NOT!!!!

These individuals held have pledged their lives to the security and safety of the United States, and for that we should work hard to get them back safely, but not at the price of our honor. If anyone should apologize, the Chinese should apologize to the US for starting this mess in the first place.

I cannot believe the Chinese could be this dumb. I only hope the US doesn't act dumber. As our "friends", the Chinese were the darlings of American business and special interests groups. They were in the position to influence and manipulate our politics and steal our technological secrets with the help of the Clinton administration and the Democratic National Committee. They currently enjoy a $500 billion dollar trade surplus with the US.

By doing what they are doing the Chinese are risking a state of hostility and a new Cold War with the US. By entering in a state of hostility with the United States, the Chinese would lose an important source of trade and the means to fund their ever burgeoning military.

The Chinese have never respected or had good will toward the United States. I have been saying that to all my friends and to anyone who would listen for the past several years. I hate it when I buy their imports because I know that much of that money is going to the army and is funding their military build up. They threatened us years ago that they would send blow up Los Angeles, and no one here in the US cared because after the Gulf War, which all of us gawked at on Television, we think we are invincible. So we continued to give them most favored nation status year after year after year. No one ever paused to consider that the toys, raincoats, shoes and clothing that we purchased for our children might someday fund the very arms that would kill them.

When Bush met with the Chinese several weeks ago, he got in their face and told them the United States would protect and support Taiwan(I personally would not have done that). A bill is pending in the Senate to sell arms to Taiwan. That is the reason this whole incident happened. The Chinese want us to back off. They hope to drag this incident on so that the American public will put pressure on the president to give in and give the Chicoms an apology and also to soft pedal support for Taiwan.

I am not for appeasement. That policy has never worked, i.e, consider Hitler. You cannot deal with a country that has no respect for you. Furthermore to cower and back down because you are afraid to anger someone so powerful only enslaves you. Where would Britain be if they took that attitude with Hitler in WWII who seemingly had the power to destroy them? The Chinese have abused the American political and economic system to get what they want and the Americans have let them do it, so this country is partly to blame for what has happened, but it is not too late to get wise and develop a little backbone.

Bush is doing well because he is being so cool about this whole thing. We can have backbone, but we do not have to make the situation worse than it is by overreacting and threatening sanctions, and other such dire things. Someone will come up with a solution where both countries can back down and save face and the military personal can go back home; at least, that is my prayer.

But this incident is a blessing in disquise. The Americans have been all too complacent about their place in the world, and about the Chinese in particular. Hopefully this incident wakes some of us to the reality of the situation.


Ben Wed Apr 11 02:15:22 PDT 2001

JERRY:Apologize to the Chinese?

I typed those words out and looked at them for a long time before considering how best to answer them. I still don't know if I can, but I'm willing to give it a shot. In my opinion, I don't think George W. will apologize. He's just new to the job, and bowing down to the Chinese now would make him lose face in their eyes. The Chinese, of course, won't apologize because then they will lose face in the eyes of the world. The only solution will be a diplomatic one. If both countries are intellegent enough to accept third party arbitration, everything might go smoothly, and things might be settled in a short time. The problem is, no one wants to admit they made a mistake, and no one wants to apologize. That makes a stalemate in my book. That brings it all back to square one.

I can only hope George W. has some advisors who will give him good advice. Sending in the troops is definitely not an option. That would be like poking a stick into a hornet's nest. Even Napoleon said he feared the Chinese, referring to them, I believe, as a sleeping dragon. Nope, this one's gonna take a while I think. But I gotta think you're right about this one Jerry, if George W. just said, I'm sorry, we made a mistake, it must have been instrument failure, the Chinese would let them go. They'd keep the plane long enough to get all the schematics down before they gave it back, and they will eventually--what country wouldn't want to copy everything they could? It would be foolish not to. Then again, they might let them go just because they got everything they need off the plane all ready, and it would be good "diplomatic relations" that made them give it back and let everyone go. Sanctions won't work against a country as big as China, and it would cost the U.S. too much to try and enforce it. Rememebr that old Chinese proverb, and one of my favourites: "May you live in interesting times." Well guess what? Things are gonna start getting interesting whether we want them to or not. And we haven't even started to talk about the softwood agreement between you guys and us...everybody I know says shut off the power and turn off the taps, it's time to play hardball. I think George W.'s in for an interesting four years.

(Now don't take anything here I said to heart, and don't go fishin' about in there lookin' fer insults and nonsense, 'cause there ain't any. I'm just tellin' ya like I sees it. )

Gore wasn't much of a catch for us up here, and George W. didn't beat him out by that much--not as far as we can see (and we're looking at free trade when we look at who's in office). I think anyway you look at it, with the way the vote was split right down the middle like that, you're looking at a one term president, and I think he knows it. If he blows this, he'll have sealed his fate. If he gets them back in a short period of time, and comes out smelling like a rose, he can use that as leverage for the next term. Do you think that might have crossed his mind yet? Just wanted to throw that in there for ya. Food for thought, don't ya know? Politics is a dirty game, and I think he knows how to play.

Do you still like me? Let's try this on for size then. George W. had better come up with a peaceful solution. If he comes up with the wrong answer, we could have WWlll. I mean, isn't that how WWl started, over something that could have been averted a dozen times over? So yea, the whole world's watching this one, and we're nervous. Real nervous. Especially with Seattle's Trident missle base just down the road...now do I actually wanna hit that button down there that says to publish my message? Ahh...why not?

Teekay Wed Apr 11 01:26:14 PDT 2001

JERRY: Ummm, but don't you think the American president should just apologize?
Now I'm ducking for cover.

Mary Tue Apr 10 23:29:02 PDT 2001

TINA: Your Easter dinner sounds delightful and the menu itself might have made me hungry if I hadn't just made myself half sick on salt & vinegar Pringles and a whole snack bag of Mini-Oreos. I don't feel so good. I think I will wash it all down with a Diet Coke and go to bed. Good idea? Maybe a Tums chaser is in order. (I bow to no sponsor...hehe)

TEEKAY: The door is a no go at present. Main reason: I can't get to the back of the garage because of all the Christmas decorations my beloved husband THREW in there. Needless to say, the discovery of my white-light-encrusted-grapevine reindeer sans antlers!! turned me into a raging sheila. Second reason the door is a no go: The panels on the top are way smaller than the panels on the bottom and with ten foot ceilings in my house, the doors are very tall. If I were to cut the door between the upper and lower panels, I still wouldn't be able to see over the bottom section! Ha. That is actually rather funny to me for some reason.

That Jersey Devil IS pretty cool. I am going down next week to do an interview a la Barbara Walters. I figure to ask him, "If you were the President of the United States, would you apologize to the Chinese?" After his response, no matter which way he leans, I will say, "And what the hell are you thinking?"

Shortie Night THURSDAY! Theme is DISCOVERY. ie, self-discovery, lost and found, exploration...knock yourselves out guys! :-)

Jerry Tue Apr 10 22:10:32 PDT 2001

Wow what a meal, can I come?

Oh, no I think it is too far to drive, but thanks anyhow.

So what are the ideas about this thing in China, should the US cut off trade relations over that? I personally don't know, but I am aware that much of what we buy now is made in China, the Motherboards in all the machines we use every day (in my house at least) were made there.

I have second thoughts about buying products from there anyhow what with the slave labor and such that goes on over there, but it is buy their products at a low price, and have money left over, or buy those made elsewhere for twice the price and not have enough for that really great video card.

My first reaction to the whole thing was heck, lets just send in the Rapid Reaction team, or whatever they call them now, and pull our folks out of harms way, at the same time, a few thermite grenades in that airplane should take care of that problem.

Then I began to think of the world reaction to that sort of activity. Now I doubt that many would condem us, but China is the home to about one third of the worlds population, and to get that many folks pissed off at us is probably not the best idea, what with their having the bomb and such. I know if it were my son or daughter sitting there being held hostage, I would want the President to do everything, hell ANYTHING to get them home safely, even if it meant an apology.

But then, what do we have to apologize to them for? According to our sources, (and can we believe them? I don't know) they were well outside China's waters, and after all wasn't it the fault of the Chinese pilot that the whole thing started.

I have such great hopes for our new President, I hope he doesn't let our guys down. I worry about them. I pray for their safe return. I pray for a peaceful end to this mess.


Jerry Tue Apr 10 22:10:23 PDT 2001

Wow what a meal, can I come?

Oh, no I think it is too far to drive, but thanks anyhow.

So what are the ideas about this thing in China, should the US cut off trade relations over that? I personally don't know, but I am aware that much of what we buy now is made in China, the Motherboards in all the machines we use every day (in my house at least) were made there.

I have second thoughts about buying products from there anyhow what with the slave labor and such that goes on over there, but it is buy their products at a low price, and have money left over, or buy those made elsewhere for twice the price and not have enough for that really great video card.

My first reaction to the whole thing was heck, lets just send in the Rapid Reaction team, or whatever they call them now, and pull our folks out of harms way, at the same time, a few thermite grenades in that airplane should take care of that problem.

Then I began to think of the world reaction to that sort of activity. Now I doubt that many would condem us, but China is the home to about one third of the worlds population, and to get that many folks pissed off at us is probably not the best idea, what with their having the bomb and such. I know if it were my son or daughter sitting there being held hostage, I would want the President to do everything, hell ANYTHING to get them home safely, even if it meant an apology.

But then, what do we have to apologize to them for? According to our sources, (and can we believe them? I don't know) they were well outside China's waters, and after all wasn't it the fault of the Chinese pilot that the whole thing started.

I have such great hopes for our new President, I hope he doesn't let our guys down. I worry about them. I pray for their safe return. I pray for a peaceful end to this mess.


Tina Tue Apr 10 21:35:40 PDT 2001

Wil, I just left you my thoughts in the workbook crit page. :-D

Randall startiki@hotmail.com Tue Apr 10 20:04:54 PDT 2001


Christi: I like Mormons, lived in Utah for 2 years. Their family values and work ethic style of life impressed me. Sadly, the LDS have taken some hits the last decade or so, but heck, who hasn't? Anyway..............

If my posts seem to come from left field it's because there is so much material on here to digest and I have so little time at night to read everything. So for that reason I like to use this area...to write.

Saw an intersting sign in front of a local feed store today. CHICKS ARE HERE Really? Sure as hell wish someone could have had that spirit when I was losing the sexual revolution in 1970. Out manuvered, under-gunned, poor field work, etc. Jeeze, time has betrayed me. :-)) Now girls are known to approach guys and give their phone number. (That noise was only my forehead pounding the desk!) I have my work shirts done at a local laundry (sigh) and the lovely young lady is very friendly, but she could easily be my granddaughter. (More head pounding!)

Gotta headache now :-) better go to bed...and dream. But gotta watch the talking in my sleep...or my wife will make the headache a lot worse!!!:-))))

See ya!


Teekay -who just won't go away. Tue Apr 10 19:18:34 PDT 2001

DEBRA: Self assurance. Hmmmm, I think for most that only makes its appearance around the age of 30. :-)

Teekay Tue Apr 10 19:15:44 PDT 2001

DEBRA: That new format sounds great.
Also, even if was short, it was sweet and I'm pretty sure you covered everything. It goes a long way to get girls thinking they're not on their own and that most evey girl faces it sooner or later.
Please send me you address.

TINA: Well I wasn't hungry before I read your post. I'm salivating now.

Really am going. I have these seedling I bought a bargain prices to plant before they die.

Debra Tue Apr 10 19:03:43 PDT 2001


Oh my lovely publisher doesn't have a distributor. I will be able to fix that next year too when the rights revert back to me for zero dollars. Then it will actually be in stores.

I can't wait.

I hope your daughters get some benefit out of it even though they sound like great self assured young ladies. One never knows when they might need a little something.


Debra Tue Apr 10 18:59:00 PDT 2001


I was passionate because I started to write it when my daughter who is now tweleve was only a few months old. She woke up one night at two am, and after she was finished eating she looked at me with her big brown eyes and I was frozen looking at her in utter happiness. It was then that I realized that if all went well, I mean well then in sixteen short years she would be bombarded by these powerful messages and most of them would be just "the hard one" talking.

I had a manuscript to give to her when she turned into a loaded bomb if you know what I mean. Then all my friends wanted a copy for their daughters. I started to think some other girls elsewhere would benefit from my little book if it were a book. I knew that a publisher wouldn't even look at that so I did it myself.

All I want to do is help some innocent girls see things as they are, instead of the way these high powered boys want them to see them. I left it they way I wanted my daughter to see it, concentrated and short. I know it makes me look like I haven't much to say. I do. I just didn't want to lose her interest. I added the blank pages so she would have to pick it up again and again. Then she might read something over again. I can see thousands of miles of scribbling on those blank pages that might end up as powerful as anything I could have added.

I hope to reformat it next year so that the lines would be two per page making fifty pages just for the lines. I want the illustration of the boy and girl in the middle of the lines. I think that will give the book more substance while giving each individual line more power.


Tina Tue Apr 10 18:45:45 PDT 2001


undecided appetizer
wine for adults, pop for kids
vichyssoise soup
tossed green salad
apple salad
14lb turkey with fresh bread stuffing and gravy
twice baked potatoes, stuffed with cheese and chives
mashed yams
fresh cranberry sauce
fried carrots
steamed broccoli with cheese sauce
beet pickles, dill pickles
hot cross buns
strawberry and peach pavlova for dessert
tea or coffee

I never do a completely traditional dinner, but turkey is a must!

Speaking of dinner, I'd best go and deal with tonights!

Oh yes, I've decided that I didn't like 'The Mexican'.

Teekay Tue Apr 10 17:09:31 PDT 2001

VIV: :-) I think you must have gotten the wrong impression of IMA.
IMA didn't commit suicide. She accidently choked on something?? while having a temper tantrum.
And why did you think she was from a mental hospital? IMA was a resident at the Rocky Road Retirement Centre - or some such name.
I'm glad to hear that you are more tolerant of IMA now. Personally, I feel IMA was a rather lost, lonely soul (though I wouldn't dare say it in her hearing) who was looking to mingle with those of similar interests.
Soul? Spirit? My goodness - how appropriate.

And a little note of consolation while doing your taxes:

'Riches and wealth come from within and no matter how empty your bank account you are never poor if you have love in your heart, kindness in your soul and a laugh on your lips.'

I think there's a little something in there for all of us, don't you? :-D

Viv Tue Apr 10 16:52:31 PDT 2001

Teekay & IMA: You are absolutely right. Ima is welcome here. I over reacted to the word suicide and to the last parts of her writings which included ideas of a mental hospital in comic usage. I think my sense of humor is somewhat hampered there. We had a suicide in our family that had an effect on two generations. Please anyone out there Ima included...you are a writer if you write. You are not anything if you commit suicide and the hurt you cause lasts long beyond a generation. So write on, and accept my apology for the rude comments. Teekay mentioned your name as I was taking a break from my income taxes.

Someone explain to me how we can look so rich on paper??? Where does that money actually go in a year?

On a lighter note. I spent all day yesterday trying to get the baking done for Easter. I tried out a new recipe and an old one that I hadn't done in so long. It brought back such memories as I baked it. I decided to make the other recipe a tradition and see what memories grow from that. I know Heather will bake a real lamb with mint sauce for Easter. What is everyone else going to have!

Sasquatch: We really need you over here. I saw the building plans for the area I live in. I have to move in August because they are tearing down our house. Make way for progress...they are going to "make the hill more level", knock down the wild forest, and make a little park with green grass and sidewalk. Our owl...the tanookis, the funny little birds whose names I don't know. The wild raspberries, the little roses, the bamboo, the big kaki and kuri trees, where will they go? People were upset because we had rats and snakes. They forgot we had an owl. The only reason we had rats was because some do-gooder rounded up all the stray cats and had them put to sleep or given up for adoption. Wantanabe is sitting on Mt. Fuji. There aren't any trees up there because it's a volcanic cinder cone. He doesn't care for trees. Would you consider getting on an airplane or a ship?

Teekay Tue Apr 10 16:43:07 PDT 2001

Just got back from fixing one of those closed cab tractors. The towing ball had broken off the back and the trailor couldn't be attatched.

To begin with I tried using a paper clip, but I just couldn't get the pliers to comply, then I had a brainwave.
"Wool!" I think to myself. "Wool'll be just the ticket!" (Well I don't really speak like that, but it sounds more interesting than how I really thought it.)
And sure enough, after a bit of wrapping and winding and a few choice swear words (in my head) I managed to secure the tractor to the trailor.

2 year old is extrememly grateful and it's gratifying to see that even as I type this, he's still playing with it.

Teekay Tue Apr 10 15:45:23 PDT 2001

Morning All,

BARNABAS: Thanks for that. I'll check them out. :-)

HEATHER: Hey maaaaaaaaaan, don't shoot the messenger! ;-?
I'm glad to hear you book is flowing along - to be honest, I really missed hearing you speak of it. I always got inspired when you let us know how you were going with it.

BEN: That is exactly the story I'm writing!!!!!!

VIV: I really liked IMA. I don't know why everyone got so upset with her. She sort of reminded me of GARIES (where art thou GARIESS??) with her tongue in cheek humour.

IMA: Don't pay any heed to VIV. If you can hear this, or see this. I miss you and if you want to come back you can. JACK said anybody can come here and I know there are some who would welcome you back.
To the notebook I mean, NOT to my house - if you don't mind :-)

VIV: OH, you're doing income taxes, well then you can be forgiven your words about IMA, coz no one could be in a happy, friendly mind state while doing income taxes. :-)

BEN: Only joking about the novel idea. Don't quite know what's gotten into me today, but I rather like it.

MARY: Woah, that Jersey Devil dude sounds cooooooooooooooool! Couldn't you write the story anyway??? If it wasn't acceptable for phantasium you could always enter it in a horror contest.
And your kids room sounds great. Did you hand paint the cartoon characters yourself?
And have you cut up the door???? You know, the antique door. If you don't tell me pretty soon I'll probably wither up and die of curiosity. I've become rather fixated on the fate of that door.

TINA: That sounds great. The Easter plans that is. I haven't a clue about 'The Mexican" I've not even heard of it.

ROSEMARY & TINA: I went into the library the other day and there on the display shelf, right in front of me when I walked in the door was a book by Anne McCafferty. The same thing happened when I went looking for a book by O.S. Card. Anyhoo, I opened it up and had a squiz, but as it was the third book, I thought I'd wait until i read number 1 first. I hate reading out of order if it's in sequel.

MARY: Can I please come live at your house??? You do the most interesting things!
Don't forget to answer the door question.

SASQUATCH: Hey, when I heard about that earthquake in China, I thought of you.

RACHEL: (((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))) Thank you for your kind words, I think I have myself pretty much to thank for the self doubt, but when I get these stages where I don't write anything for ages and don't even feel inclined to, I begin to wonder if I'll ever get the feeling again and it's really horrible.
I see myself as being a writer. I don't know when, but oneday I'll have a book published.
When I write I get so much from it, joy, peace, insight and it scares me to think that maybe this time the desire to write won't come back.
Thanks for listening. :-)

RHODA & HOP: I think, in a nutshell, there are only 2 things that differentiate the male and female brain. They are hormones and enviroment.
Now that I have solved that problem I think all those scientists should now spend their time and grants on finding a non invasive way to do a pap smear. Maybe a headband. Or perhaps a little gadget you can stick your finger into and little coloured lights would register accordingly.
And maybe, while they're at it, they could work on a pill for carbolizing beds. One where you just put it on the bed, leave the room for 2 minutes and it's all done.
Just a thought.

DEBRA: You're very welcome. You've done a wonderful job. I was curious to know what made you feel so passionate about this that you wrote a book on it. I'm glad you did.
You should see if you can somehow promote it to the library where you live. And maybe surrounding libraries and then move on from there.

JERRY: What a sad story - about the twins I mean.

Who ever said that stuff about John Travolta * smack * * smack* I love John Travolta.

Ciao all. *kisses* to those who are adverse to them. (((((hugs))))))))) to those who don't want them. Never fear, what doesn't kill you will make you stronger and who knows, you may even start to like it :-)

Ben Tue Apr 10 11:36:43 PDT 2001

Howard: I congratulate the mayor of San Diego, but instead of calling them by their social economic/religious/race etc., name, why don't they just refer to them as Americans? Isn't that what everyone wants to be in the long run? Or perhaps Citizen if they aren't naturalized Americans yet? Citizen Jose de Jesus Monteya? Everyone knows he isn't an American citizen as of yet, and there's no racial slur--political correctness is still adhered to. Citizen Darby O'Shea? Nah, it would never work anyway...people are people and will always be people. I guess that's what make the world go round, ain't it?

howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Tue Apr 10 11:20:34 PDT 2001

BEN and JERRY -- (now there's a combination!) When and if the human race becomes truly homogenous we'll just find something else to persecute each other with. We're that way.
My father-in-law used to call black people "darkies," in just the same way he called a mirror a "looking glass." There was no judgement in the term, that was just his word for them. Good mirror/bad mirror - all "looking glasses." He saw people as people, and he saw color not as divisions, but as distinctions. Simple, yes. Uneducated? Yes. Honest? Yes.
I heard yesterday that the city of San Diego has passed legislation (introduced by their Black Mayor) that prohibits any reference in the city's records or proceedings to "minorities." The word will not be used to identify or describe any group, because he feels it's demeaning. Each group will henceforth be called by its ethnic/religious/socio-economic/&whatever name. I wonder what his next "State of the City" address will be like?
Then today I heard a completely unrelated report that explained the lack of "minorities" in the New England states as stemming from the lack of industry in those states.

SASQUATCH -- See, you scared everyone for no reason! A poem for your penance, my hirsuite friend!

LITTER - My Mavica is one step below that CD version. I just couldn't go the extra $400.00 for it. It is a nice one, though, and will take 1080 pictures on a mini CD.
I chose mine for the "Steady Shot" and the 10X optical zoom.

Ben Tue Apr 10 02:47:09 PDT 2001

Jerry: Racism's a funny thing. I've yet to encounter it to any nasty degree in my life, and yet, the guys I work with are basically all racists in one way or another. They have names for every race, colour and religion on the face of the earth. In fact, one of the strangest ones is a man who is married to an East Indian woman--and we're talking sari and all here, folks--and yet, he is the first, and the loudest, extolling the short comings of her race as far as he is concerned. Some of us just look at him, shaking our heads and laughing at the irony of his bigotry. He absolutely hates East Indains, and yet is married to one--and has two children with her. Go figure?

Now, I believe I have small prejudices just as much as I believe every person alive does to some degree. I mean, no one's perfect, right? Well, there was one, but they killed him, remember? I try to judge a person by the contents of their heart, and their personality among peers. I tell myself I can accept their bigotry, because I know where I stand with them, but that doesn't mean I want them to come over for Sunday dinner either. I myself, have the notion that as a couple, my wife and I would not be accepted by certain groups of people in certain areas of the country. It's just something I feel--a safety valve if you will. I mean, I'm not gonna want to take my wife on a tour of some place I know is the hometown of the Grand Dragon of the KKK. That would be tempting Fate. And why bother doing that? If I have any prejudices, I think it is towards blind ignorance.

My wife however, somtimes has the opposite take to my way of thinking, and since she herself is a woman of colour, it can be rather strange to hear her complain about one particular race's driving habits, or another race probably having bought their driver's liscenes, because she happened to hear in the news that thirty people were caught doing it. Naturally, every bad driver of that race she encounters after hearing that, has bought their liscence. She can be just as stubborn as any of the guys I work with in her views on that subject, although I like to think I've rubbed off on her because she has become more tolerant towards others over the years. She's willing to concede that some people are just bad drivers. Period. Race has nothing to do with it.

My wife comes from a huggy-touchy family, whereas mine were not, at least not to the degree her family is. When we come into the house, everyone gets hugs and kisses, and when it's a big gathering--and there are people you've never seen before--you have to walk around the room and say hello to everyone, kissing all of the women. It took a long time for me to get used to this behaviour, but I've been doing it for so long now--at least seventeen or eighteen years--that now it's almost second nature. I get away with giving her brothers and male cousins hugs now, and they accept it because they know I didn't come from the same environment they did. I like kissing my sister-in-law and some of the other female cousins--aside from the fact that most of them have an exotic beauty to them that would make any man stand up and take notice of them when they enter a room.

A kiss on the cheek is just another way of saying hello, and more. My nephews have been kissing me since they were born, and now that they are young men, they still do. My son kisses me in front of his friends without any hesitation. For you see, for us, it is also a sign of respect, as much as it is a sign of love. When my father-in-law died, I met a woman who was about seventy, who was a cousin of my mother-in-law's, and was addressed as Auntie in Fijian. I'd never met this woman before--she lived in California--and when I shook her hand after first being introduced, my wife told me, in no uncertain terms, that I had to kiss her on the cheek as a sign of respect. She was the mother of my wife's cousin, and as such, deserved the same respect from me that my wife had for her. I was more than willing to accept that as an explanation. Afterall, I kiss all her other aunts.


Jack Beslanwitch Tue Apr 10 01:56:12 PDT 2001

Hello everyone. Got my computer back today and it is blindingly fast with lots of features, but I am forced to reinstall all my software. Ugggh. Oh, well. I will try to get to the archive that I could not get to last week sometime tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me. Take care everyone. I will relay the particulars of the upgrade tomorrow, but for now that is all I can say.

Jerry Mon Apr 9 21:55:02 PDT 2001

Hop - you speak of race - it brings to mind last Saturday, while we were sitting at the table eating our meal, the one at mom's our weekly meeting of the family. This week we were celebrating the visit of my son, and his wife's good news of the new Ericsson who will join us in October of this year. I don't recall what brought it up, or exactly how it came up at all, but my mom was talking, and she used an old racist statement that used to be so common in our home. She said "well at least there wasn't a nigger in the wood pile." I was shocked, I haven't heard such things since the early 70's. I don't think mom meant anything by it, in fact I don't think there is a racist bone in her body, it is just the language dad used to use all the time, and she was repeating what she heard so often. I never said anything about it, but my wife and I talked about it when we got home. So did my kids, they were equal shocked. You see, we have lived all over the US. We have lived with all different races, and really never gave race much thought. It was just the statement. It was so shocking.

Back in the early 70's the Army sort of instilled a certain type of racism into us, since we were at war with Vietnam, it was very common to refer to the local's as gooks, it was just part of the speech back then, but again, I would never use that word again, it is something of the past, as should be the other words.

It is strange though, I hear such talk around here a lot, by the older folk, who probably have never met anyone of another race in their life, other then the Native Americans who live in our community. They think nothing of saying such things, it is just common, yet so shocking to those of us who have returned from living in the cities.

Oh well. I can see where every man is proud of his father, and rightly so. He is proud of his nationality, and yes he should be proud of his race also. But he should also understand that we are one human race. We should be able to live together without such things even being spoken of. I doubt that the world will ever be so, but I can see where this wonderful thing called the internet can make a difference. We can learn about each lives without even thinking of such things as race, or skin color.

Well maybe some day. Maybe the Sci-Fi folks have it right. We will be one human race only when another race for another world threatens to take away our freedom, or our lives, and we have to pull together as one people.



Rachel Mon Apr 9 21:02:18 PDT 2001

Hop! You spelled my name right. That is so cool (big smiles). I wasn't going to make a fuss, I knew who you were posting to (smiles). Still it is nice to see my name as my name. Thanks you:D

Hum, different brain arrangements... I wonder what being forced to turn right handed did to the works (grins). Perhaps that had something to do with the dyslexia. I've got me wires all crossed up (grins)!

howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Mon Apr 9 20:25:29 PDT 2001

It's 1130PM here, and I just turned this thing on. Got home from work during a thunderstorm, and didn't want to power up. April t-storms! Go figure! This place has been busy! Catch up tomorrow - too tired now. Finally got that john installed, had to buy a new one, because the first one was cracked.

MARK -- Where you been?!

Barnabas "Hop" humanarchives@hotmail.com Mon Apr 9 20:14:35 PDT 2001

Second post in two days. It's the holidays for me so I can afford the time. I'll be working on my sociological essay about the nuclear family. Anybody have an opinion?

I wonder if I should defect to sfnf central. After all most of my works are SF or F. Ponder, ponder, ponder.

Didn't I say that Ima wouldn't rest? Didn't I say that? Didn't I? Looks like the pessimist is right this time. I wish I was wrong.

Why not write them all down, then choose the one which fits the story best? In my case although I have several alternate plot lines if I wait long enough the best one presents itself to me. Hope your wrists gets better. Maybe you should consider getting a "customisable" keyboard so you can arrange the letters as you like. There are keyboard variations for sale I know.

Wow another book in two days. I've got to pick up my pace.
One of my friends is apparently related to Orson Scott Cadd. He's my friend's uncle but they're not really close. My friend lives in here in NZ while Orson Scott Cadd lives in America so you can see why.
Is it true that Orson Scott Cadd has two of his kids killed in accidents?

You just mentioned "race" in one of your posts so I just thought I should show you what "race" really means that's all.

About Phantasium, don't you mean, ecto-plasma?

I was just thinking if we added more characters into the alphabet we may be able to create even more distinctions and variations in English.

Know the feeling, few people have read my Psiforce novel and it's been in there for quite a while. Why don't we exchange novels? I'll include an errata for changes I intend to make.

Jersey Devil would be a good one. Really. My book on monsters tells me it has horselike head, wings and a serpentine body.

I liked the first mighty mouse not the second one. The second one was too cute.

Always wanted to know if the glow thing is true. Guess it varies from person to person.
I read somewhere that left-handers are more balanced in their left and right hand usage because they have to live in a right handed world. I guess you find it true too. It is also widely known that left handers have a different brain-arrangement than right handers. There are several variations of brain- arrangements for left handed as well.

Truth is people always blame the environment and their raising. For most people it is the truth most of the time. Even those enlightened by this knowledge are still influenced most of the time by their environment, genes and their background.
I have a friend who thinks he's avoided this but frankly it's still there, he's all for logic but forgets logic is Western base and for example doesn't take into account what we call the supernatural, much like the 18th and 19th century Western scientists didn't take into account women in their equation.
Any body want to dispute the fact that most of the time their environment. genes and background influence them and their actions?

Sherwood (from the UK)
Hello. I'm new too.

Yes, it is good to taste other genres. Haven't really found a timeless favourite book. All my favourite books fall out of favour after awhile. I guess my own stories are my favourite even though I'm not published.

Jerry Mon Apr 9 19:19:13 PDT 2001

Greetings all - speaking of hugs, seems strange, but when I was growing up, hugs were not allowed. Nobody hugged, it simply was not done. Well there were the twins (both mildly retarted) who insisted on a hug from everyone, but they were different, and everyone complained about their horriable behavior. Strange but the twins came to a bad end too, one is spending life in the State Pen for murdering her elderly husband, well it was her sisters husband first, then hers, then her sisters, then hers, then her sisters, then hers, this went on from the time they were 18 till they were in their mid 40's and tired of the whole thing. The other was also charged, but the court said she was so retarted that she could not stand trial. She now lives with her brother, who by the way, is not at all retarted.

Easter celebrations, when I was a kid, and when my kids were young, the egg thing now not much till the grand kids come down, which they will, (well she will). Thats about all we do though, other then the ham and sweet potatoes dinner, oh and like every other holiday, pinochle all day.

Anyhow, just recently, our family has begun to hug, it seems strange at first, but after some practice, I can see what everyone likes about it. I think it was the West Coast relatives who introduced us to it, when they were home for a visit, they insisted on a hug before they left. Then it spread, when we still lived up north, mom insisted on a hug before we left. It still goes on, and I think I am still a bit uncomfortable with the whole process. Oh a hug from our Granddaughter is just fine, as she is a little one, and we have always hugged our little ones, it is just once they are grown.

This came up many years ago, when I was the Chief of Police up in the City of Bowman. My assistant Chief was also my closest friend. When one of the officers quit, one who was also a very close friend with my assistant, and moved, he shook hands with both myself and my assistant then left. A few months latter my assistant and I had one of our apple tree confrences (so called because we each took a fifth of good scotch and sat under my apple tree in my back yard and solved the problems of the department, along with all the other problems of the world) when he brought up the fact that our friend left and never even gave him a hug good bye. I never told him that I was adverse to such activity, but explained that some men just didn't hug. It was the same when we parted. When I left and moved to a department up north, I shook his hand good bye. I know he expected a hug, but it just was not in me. Nurture, not nature I guess.

Well this is turning into a dissertation on hugs, so will close for now.

Write ON!

Debra Mon Apr 9 18:12:30 PDT 2001


Thanks so much you couldn't believe. I hope lots of girls do read my words. I look forward to the day when someone tells me that they were helped by me. That would be huge.


Don't worry about all the ideas just get them on paper. I like to have a multiy subject notebook. I like to get different colored pens and then have an index in the front for the colors and what story they go to. Then when the ideas come all you have to do is remember what color pen you need. When you want to collect them up you only have to scan the notebook and get the ones with the correct color. Start with the nightmares. I wrote "From Bad to Worse from a nightmare.

Christi thanks for your kind words. Ms. Grace was fine long before her mom was. I needed a little glass of wine. I usually only have one on Fridays.


Thanks. I know so many women go through that. I do worry about them all the time. I can't understand why it has gone on for so long. I wish it would just stop this minute.

Sometimes I wonder what would happen if I ever saw him again. I have worried it would start all over again. Carzier things have happened. So far so good. At least now there is a law. The problem is if someone wants to hurt you they have a good chance of getting their way if they are only patient. Scary!


Allein peachick2000@hotmail.com http://members.fortunecity.com/peachick2000 Mon Apr 9 18:11:09 PDT 2001

Hey guys,
I got these through e-mail and thought I should share them with you. It's pretty important.
Hope these stories touch the lives of someone.
And before I forget ((((GREAT BIG HUGS)))) to everyone!! Pass hugs on to everyone you consider a friend and everyone you love - they're free and something everyone will appreciate. :)

A Quote for Parents:
"The life your children actually live and the life you perceive them to be living is not the same life."
- Robert Fulghum

~A lost Soul~

About one year ago, a fifteen year old girl died. Her name: Lisa Marie.
She was a very lovely girl. She lived in Michigan.. and hung herself in her own house, in her room. Five days after her death, her mother found Lisa's diary. She wanted to know why lisa hung herself. These are the entries of her diary:

November 7,1999

Dear diary,
Today was my first day of school in michigan. When I walked in the classroom some of the guys spit wads of paper at me and called me a freak.
That's the start of a bad day. Then some really popular pretty girls walked over to me and introduced themselves. They told me that I was tht ugliest thing they'd ever seen, and I started to cry. I went home and Jake called me. I thought the day would get better, but he told me that long
distance relationships don't work out. He lives in California, and now I live in Michigan. Then I told him I loved him and that I missed him and he told me that the only reason he ever went out with me was because I was a joke, and he was dared to. Then he dumped me. We were going out for two and a half years.

November 9,1999
Today got a little better. I miss Jake so much you don't even know diary!!!! But, he even changed his number so I wouldn't call him. But the hottest guy at school asked me to the dance! And those prissy girls that said I was ugly let me hang out with them at lunch today. It was cool!!

November 10,1999

I'm crying right now...turned out that hot guy was a jerk. At the dance he poured his punch on me, and those girls ripped my dress and everyone started laughing. Then my grandma told me that mom and dad got in a little car accident today at work. They're in critical condition, they might die.
I can't write anymore.

November 11, 1999

Today's a Saturday... but me and grandma were at the hospital all night long. Dad died this morning. Mom is going to live, but she's crippled for life. I wanna die too. While we were at the hospital, grandma found out that she had cancer in her stomach. She has to go on chemo-therapy. I can't believe daddy died. I'm crying more then I have my whole life. I'm in shock.
I can't write... I'm too tired. I need sleep.

November 12, 1999

Daddy is not dead! He can't be! It's all a dream. My life is perfect.
Jake still loves me. I can barely write. I'm crying too much. I wanna die.
Take me. Goodbye.
One day later, Lisa was found dead in her basement. She had hung herself with a yellow rope. I am her mother. My name is Maranda Gonzalez. The reason I wrote this e-mail to all of you, is because no one else deserves what my daughter went through. Please remember that everyone needs love. Everyone needs a hug everyday. No one should be made fun of, or insulted. No one deserves to die like Lisa did. All of you please don't be the popular prissy girls that put other people down to make themselves feel better. Please don't be the awful posessed date for the dance that makes people cry.
Now please do me the honor of sending this to as many people as you can think of. Thank you.
Everyone who sends this will be rewarded with a random act of kindness...this i promise you.

Now for one along the same note, but with a happier ending.

A Very Good Story..
One day, when I was a freshman in high school, I saw a kid from my class as he was walking home from school.
His name was Kyle. It looked like he was carrying all of his books. I thought to myself, "Why would anyone bring home all his books on a Friday? He must really be a nerd," I had quite a weekend planned (parties and a football game with my friends tomorrow afternoon), so I shrugged my shoulders and went on. As I was walking,I saw a bunch of kids running toward him.
They ran at him, knocking all his books out of his arms and ripping him so he landed in the dirt.
His glasses went flying, and I saw them land in the grass about ten feet from him. He looked up and I saw this terrible sadness in his eyes. My heart went out to him. So, I jogged over to him as he crawled around looking for his glasses,and I saw a tear in his eyes.
As I handed him his glasses, I said, "Those guys are jerks. They really should get lives."
He looked up at me and said, "Hey thanks!" There was a big smile on his face. It was one of those smiles that showed real gratitude. I helped him pick up his books,and asked
him where he lived. As it turned out, he lived near me, so I asked him why I had never seen him before. He said he had gone to private schools before now. I would have never hung out with a private school kid before.
We talked all the way home and I carried his books. He turned out to be a pretty cool kid. I asked him if he
wanted to play football on Saturday with me and my friends. He said yes. We hung all weekend and the more I got to know Kyle, the more I liked him, and my friends thought the same of him.
Monday morning came and there was Kyle with the huge
stack of books again. I stopped him and said, "Boy, you are gonna really build some serious muscles with this pile of books everyday!" He just laughed and handed me half the books. Over the next four years, Kyle and I became best friends.
When we were seniors, we began to think about college.
Kyle decided on Georgetown, and I was going to Duke. I
knew that we would always be friends, that the miles would never be a problem. He was going to be a doctor, and I was going for business on a football scholarship.
Kyle was valedictorian of our class. I teased him all the time about being a nerd. He had to prepare a speech for graduation. I was so glad it wasn't me having to get up there and speak. Graduation day, I saw Kyle. He looked great. He was one of those guys that really found himself during high school. He filled out and actually looked great in glasses. He had more dates than I had and all the girls loved him.
Boy, sometimes I was jealous.
Today was one of those days. I could see that he was nervous about this speech. So, I smacked him on the back and said, "Hey, big guy you'll be great!" He looked at me with one of those looks (the really grateful one)and smiled. "Thanks," he said. As he started his speech, he cleared his throat, and began.
"Graduation is a time to thank those who helped you make it through those tough years. Your parents, your teachers, your siblings,maybe a coach...but mostly your friends. I am here to tell all of you that being a friend to someone is the best gift you can give them. I am going to tell you a story."
I just looked at my friend with disbelief as he told
the story of the first day we met. He had planned to
kill himself over the weekend. He talked of how he
had cleaned out his locker so his mom wouldn't have to
do it later and was carrying his stuff home. He looked
hard at me and gave me a little smile. "Thankfully, I
was saved. My friend saved me from doing the unspeakable." I heard the gasp go through the crowd as this handsome, popular boy told us all about his weakest moment. I saw his mom and dad looking at me and smiling that same grateful smile. Not until that moment did I realize it's depth. Never underestimate the power of your actions. With one small gesture you can change a person's life. For better or worse.
God puts us all in each other's lives to impact one another in some way.
Look for God in others. You now have two choices.
1. You can pass this on to your friends or
2. Delete it and act like it didn't touch your heart.
As you can see, I took choice number 1. Friends are
angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have
trouble remembering how to fly.
Show your friends how much you care.

Rosemary http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/09/arts/09SHIE.html Mon Apr 9 17:22:35 PDT 2001

Greetings Writers,

I just read an interesting article by David Shields. (I think he's a literary author. I don't know his work.) Anyway, the article is about how he handles bad reviews of his work. (We should have worries about reviews of our work.) The address is above and I'll have to post it before I can test it to see if I got it right.

There is a link beside his article that takes you to the arcives for "Writers on Writing." All this is in the New York Times Web site so the writing is good and there is an excelent selection of authors on different subjects.

Got another batch of chicks in the spare bathroom. This has been a bumper year for bird babies. Even the geese hatched out some. Had to move them. The babies kept going into my yard to play with my dog. Out of four goslings hatched, we have one left.

Easter will be quiet here. No kids, family or religion here. Just hot weather and good books.

By for now.

Viv Mon Apr 9 17:05:52 PDT 2001

Abolutely Sasquatch! Wantanabesan is up there on Mt. Fuji. He stays there during the winter because it's inaccessible to tourists. He has to wear hiking boots. We know this because we have found his tracks in the spring.

I learned something very Eastery today! Did you know that only young chickens lay double yolked eggs. It's a mistake of very inexperienced chickens. I'm not kidding, this came up in the Encarta newsletter!

My apologies as an inexperienced writer for the rather nasty story I started. Ida, the image of the spider and the tapping on the window were just very powerful! Sunday was Buddah's birthday so I'm still thinking along those lines although I don't actually believe them. I just celebrate with my friends...then they come over and we do Easter eggs and sometimes even go to church together. They are curious about our customs and I am always wanting to know what my neighbors are up to! What I like is the way we can share. Some believe that Jesus came to the East to study during the years that are not documented in the Bible. Since they aren't documented, I guess anything is possible. (One thing is certain, he did not take the Orient Express).

Back to work. I hate math! Viv

sasquatch Mon Apr 9 15:27:47 PDT 2001

no, mary person and howard person, sasquatch watanabe is in land where viv person lives. i sasquatch have made small joke ha ha. i must go.

Mary Mon Apr 9 12:41:33 PDT 2001

HOWARD: Yep, I guess the campaign is supposed to go something like, Mighty Mouse is so busy eating cheese that he isn't tending to his superhero business. I saw it on some entertainment show last night. I think it said something about read more about it in "People" magazine, but I never buy that.

sasquatch person: Yes, I think that the Jersey Devil is a 'bigfoot' wannabe. I don't think you have anything to worry about. ;-)

Howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Mon Apr 9 12:31:10 PDT 2001

HEATHER - Never heard of dubbing directly from VHS to CD-R, but I'll check around here to see if any of the brainiacs have done it.

MARY - Seriously? My hero selling cheese? How the mighty have fallen! I've heard of the Jersey Devil too. I guess we lump him in with Nessie, Champ, and our own Sasquatch. I did see a report (with pictures) of a giant squid - with tentacles 50-60 feet long. Something like this most probably has fueled the "sea-serpent" stories we've all heard.

SASQUATCH - Please don't frighten the kiddies like that! I'm glad I live in the northeast. We don't have earthquakes (at least, with the same frequency) like they do in other places.
And are you saying that the Jersey Devil is a "Sasquatch wannabe?" :-) :-) Sounds like professional jealousy to me!

LITTER - Happy birthday! And I hope you're feeling better, and not having nightmares any more.

Easter at our house is even more special than Christmas - it's the ultimate reason for Christmas! We normally go to sunrise service, then have breakfast at our church before morning worship. Then we have a good dinner, and relax a bit before going back to church for our Easter Cantata. Not much candy, but we do decorate eggs, and some days when the wind and weather are just right, we fly kites in the afternoon.

Rhoda rfort@familynet.net Mon Apr 9 12:03:37 PDT 2001


I agree with you wholeheartedly that we should take what scientists say with a grain of salt. Scientific studies are always making claims not necessarily backed up with their data, or backed up with a badly designed experiment. I have had enough scientific training to be skeptical about much that I read.

I think we can accept the premise that men and women are wired differently in the brain because this finding dovetails with over five thousand years of written history. Not only that, it agrees with personal observations made throughout a lifetime. Science has just merely caught up to the notion.

Genetics versus life experience: There is a subject that has been much on my mind. I grew up in the seventies and had much teaching in school about the importance of experience in the shaping of values and character. Genetics was downplayed. Now over the last couple of decades the situation has been entirely reversed. It is genetics and evolution that determine everything from how we chose our mates, conduct our family lives and conduct our work. Consider the new Ashley Judd movie that opened last week. I cannot remember the title, but the premise of the movie is that a bull never services the same cow more than once. That movie is an extreme example of the current fashion to attribute everything we do to genetics, or at least the movie plays up to that idea. I haven't seen it, nor am I likely to, so I hesitate to state its moral.

Why do we do the things we do? Why are we (individually and collectively) who we are? It is genetics; it is environment; and one more thing few wish to acknowledge--it is our souls--our free-will, our character, our conscience, our desires. You can't quantify the human soul; that is why no one wants to deal with it. The human soul is the one thing that gives us all our individuality. May I go one step farther and propose that the human soul is that medium which can reflect the loving, just, creative nature of God? At the same time it can reflect Satan and his whims? Now I stray into the religious realm.

Much of genetic study now is merely a means to get government money for research. It is the exciting brave new world of current knowledge. At the same time, it is one more attempt by society to absolve themselves of responsibility for their achievements and failures. For decades we have devised studies and science designed to allow people to forget culpability. If our genes and our environment determine who and what we are, the result is not our fault.


heather Mon Apr 9 11:47:54 PDT 2001

Mary - wow - must have missed your post about how you and your family celebrate Easter!
It sounds like more fun than egg fights IN the house.


Rachel Mon Apr 9 11:44:18 PDT 2001

Tina - A good partner is a great thing. When I'm in the dojo I tend to train hard. I am a joker, I admit to that, but when the time comes I am a down to business sort of gal. I tend to be on the rougher side. It isn't that I intend to hurt, I just commit to my moves. Even if you do a move with control, if you do it with conviction it will still have a certain level of power behind it. I love to help people learn their katas. I also like to work non interactive moves with new people. I say there isn't anything like the passion and enthusiasm of a person who is new to martial arts. They have an excitement that I just want to suck up. I bet you know exactly what I'm talking about.

Sherwood - Hi you! I love the name (smiles).

Hey to all the other new people. This place changes so much these days!

Allein - Hey girl (hugs, hugs and more hugs for yah).

Rhoda - Consider Sebastian kisses:D I so adore my wee one. I can't get over how much he is growing. I can see his little personality. He is going to be something and a half. He's a little hot headed, but, well... Let's just say I know where he gets that from (winks and smiles).

Eddie - Rest up there guy. Nice to see yah:D

Howard - I also see people on this site. I tend to view them as colour, light and have image or sound association with them. I do sometimes get a physical picture from things that they will say. I tend to disregard the physical images that I form. I like that here we are something more than the sum of our parts (grins). We don't get all distracted by physical stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love to see pictures. I like to hear about the hair cuts, the this, the that and the other thing. That is part of who I am.

Hop - I was a lefty as a kid. My parents did not allow that for long. I am now and have been for a long time a righty. I however have the ability to use my left for almost anything. I can bat left and right. I tend to reach for things with my left. Drink coffee with the left, you know the stuff. Or, maybe you don't know the stuff I'm talking about. I'm pretty much ambi. I can write and print with my left quite easily. At first its a tad on the slop and stop side, then it will smooth out. When I get the writers wrist thing going on I just switch hands for a few days. It really is an advantage.

Jerry - I'm glad that nobody came to any harm when the roof came in. That is pretty nasty stuff. I have lived in a lot of homes with a lot of leaks. It can be nasty stuff. Hey! I'm writing the Great Canadian Novel!

Christi - I send you a great big hug. Sebastian loves his fairy kisses. I'm sure he will see fields of yellow flowers when he thinks of you as well (smiles and hugs).

Teekay - Do not doubt yourself. I find it hard to think of you having self doubt. Whoever put the self doubt thing in your head needs a kick in the ass. go find them, and given them a good swift kick. I'm not kidding about that.

Litter - I get that writer over load thing. I tend to have many projects on the go at once. People ask me if it is confusing. I don't find it confusing at all, not unless I decide to mix my stories. Then I'm confused with intent (grins). It can be fun to do the blend and bend with writing. Hey! Happy B-Day:D

Hop - I also had the flu, then it became a cold, now it seems to have become again :( I hate feeling like crap, it bites! Uh, er, sorry about that, back to you (grins). I hope you feel better soon. The glow skin thing (grins and laughter). I don't feel it, but I'm told that I have it. All my life I've been told that I glow. Some people seem to mean it in a more physical way (merry laughter). I used to be very involved in the church. I would often be taken aside and told in hushed, excited whispers that I was glowing. I think it had a lot to do with the fact that I grew up next to the power lines...

Yikes! This has turned into a mega post. I better get going before I sink the page.

Hugs all around,


Heather Mon Apr 9 11:42:25 PDT 2001

YES, Mary, yes, write it and make Phantasium one story larger! I've yet to write mine, too, but have lately heard of a true story about the place where I work for a few hours in the evenings, and on Sundays I'm in the plant all by myself, mighy spooked since I heard about it. I can't say much more, cause now I have an idea....

it just might work.

Viv - I think it would be cheaper for you to order the Mr. Bill tapes and have them shipped to you! I'll see what I can do about finding you a source. I can't tape from one to another without getting another VCR. I could, however, record them (I THINK) onto CD-ROM and send them, which would be incredibly cheap. I just might have to buy a special cable to go from VCR to my CD-W drive. I don't know, do any of our resident techies know if this is possible? Oh, what the heck, if that doesn't work I might just send you a present. I'll give you the tapes! My husband bought them a few years ago, we've watched them once, (cayenne pepper, folks, believe me) and then they've been sitting in the VHS chest ever since, and if I left the drawer open you can bet there'd be two feet of dust on them.

ah, back to writing then...

See you soon, lovelinesses.

sasquatch Mon Apr 9 11:36:30 PDT 2001

hello again i sasquatch did not see the asking about you call easter. on this day i sasquatch eat fresh green plants from in cold water and have joy in the One coming alive again for he did this for not only humans persons but for all he made. we all know this and we all thank. i must go.

sasquatch Mon Apr 9 11:20:38 PDT 2001

i sasquatch am sorry to tell you beware the ground will move again strongly perhaps this night or when sun appears once again. i sasquatch am feeling this and the lesser creatures are also aware and are as humans say nervousness. also this jersey devil is sasquatch wish to be like. i think that is how you say. i must go.

Mary Mon Apr 9 11:17:39 PDT 2001

TINA: There are 18 of us for Easter. (21 if you count the dogs!)

Mary Mon Apr 9 11:11:14 PDT 2001

You got it, BEN!

Mary Mon Apr 9 11:10:18 PDT 2001

Pretty sure shortie night theme is DISCOVERY.

TINA: Easter traditions? Ours is marked by the first picnic of the year, no matter what the weather. The whole troop has the morning to do whatever. Some of us go to church, some of us don't, but we all end up at the state park at a given time. This year the weather is great. Last year it snowed. We have ham, turkey, potato salad, macaroni salad, deviled eggs, chicken wings, cheese lasagna(because my mom is a vegetarian), baked beans, hot cross buns which nobody ever eats and whatever else all us girls care to lug around. Oh, pineapple upside down cake. Can't forget that.

My father has hidden the five dozen eggs before anyone else gets there and we all secretly eyeball the most likely hiding spots during dinner. One of the eggs in invariably spray painted gold and marked as the "Lucky Egg". The lucky person who finds the lucky egg wins 5 bucks. We play games after the hunt with the eggs. We pass them under our chins(which results in tie dyed faces), run them around on spoons, toss them back and forth, and push them along the ground with our noses winning everything from kites to bubble lawnmowers.

This always ends up in an argument which leads to the biggest free for all egg fight you have ever seen. It takes us forever to pick up the mess, but we just can't help ourselves. Usually the birds are helping us clean up before it is all over.

After that, we go our separate ways and talk about how we think good old Dad tipped off Uncle Bill over the Lucky Egg this year, and that next year, we are bringing our own identical lucky egg to cause confusion.

Any eggs spared from the egg-fight are made into enough egg salad, deviled eggs, and egg flambe to feed everyone here for a week. But I don't eat them.

Oh yeah, first thing in the morning before we get dressed for church, the little ones search for their Easter Basket all through the house.

I guess that is it. I bet we have the most rambunctious Easter celebration you have ever heard of. I know we have the whole park to ourselves, that's for sure! :-)

Ben Mon Apr 9 10:46:09 PDT 2001

MARY:I guess that explains where the hockey team got their name.

Tina Mon Apr 9 08:17:45 PDT 2001

Greetings and Salutations everyone! Happy Monday!

Hop, I tried that once. Nobody read it.

Unlike yesterday when it rained incessantly, today has dawned bright and sunny, and for one reason only... *yesterday* was my day off. Plus side? I actually wrote yesterday! Also saw 'The Mexican', and I'm still deciding if it was good or bad.

Mary, what was this weeks theme? I've already forgotten. ;-D

I'm doing Easter dinner this year, for a modest crowd of ten. It's got me thinking that among this group there are probably some interesting traditions! We do Easter in a fairly low key way; church, turkey dinner, family, friends. How about you?


mary http://theshadowlands.net/jd.htm Mon Apr 9 07:43:13 PDT 2001

Dangit, wrong button. That was me down there.

Mon Apr 9 07:42:23 PDT 2001

HA!!! That is hysterical.

BTW, here is a link to some Jersey Devil info.

Mon Apr 9 07:36:22 PDT 2001

John Trovotla could'nt carry Mighty Mouses jock.

mary Mon Apr 9 07:30:17 PDT 2001

Oh yeah, HOWARD: Mighty Mouse is going to start doing cheese commercials! He is making a comeback, much like John Travolta! Thought you might like to know.

Mary notdotcalm@yahoo.com Mon Apr 9 07:27:32 PDT 2001

HOP: Your predictions for forwriters.com were particularly entertaining, thank you. :-)

I think that, absolutely, you are right about there being several factors that influence male/female behavior besides our chemical/electrical make-up. But you cannot deny that the genetics (pure and simple) play a role.

Here's an example of your theory, though:

My son and daughter, ages 2 and 3 respectively, share a bedroom. I just recently repainted and redecorated their room when we bought their new beds. All their favorite cartoon characters are handpainted on the walls. In one corner, I set up a baby doll nursery complete with kitchen, high chair, doll beds, the works. On the other side, I set up the 210 piece Big Jake construction set, hard hat included. When I opened the door to that room and my children rushed in for the first time, my son bee-lined for the baby dolls and my daughter couldn't get that crane cranking fast enough. My husband and I exchanged sly glances and left them to their own devices.

Any other day, my daughter is rocking three different dolls to sleep in her wee rocking chair and my son is shoving Matchbox cars down the cold air return. Go figure.

HEATHER: I have a friend who lives in New Jersey and in their park system there is an urban legend. His name is The Jersey Devil. There have been sightings and contacts along the same lines as Sasquatch, but not as grand scale. I wonder if he would be considered Phantasium fodder. What do you think? He has been around longer than anyone can remember, and is 'dead' but haunting the parks. At least that is the impression I get from my limited research. If I write about the Jersey Devil, it would only be for Phantasium, so if he doesn't qualify, let me know so I don't bother. ;-)

thats if for now i reckon

Viv Mon Apr 9 06:17:31 PDT 2001

Ok, final post. It's in the short story area. You can do what you like because I really should NOT be even playing around with this. I am supposed to be working for a deadline. Back to the income taxes.

Viv Mon Apr 9 04:52:56 PDT 2001

Back again. Let's imortalize that one. Can we write that up together and post it to Phantasium? I'm not sure I can get this into words. Heather? Teekay???? I think that Ida's mutation...uh, reincarnation...into something which taught children might actually fit into Phantasium. Since it was Ida's last wish to be in Phantasium can we get the first part of the story into words so that we can add that ending. We can celebrate our new IMA. I think it's fitting since she finally contributed something of use to society. You don't always have to be a writer...sometimes just being a good big spider is enough. I have the title too IMA Spider! I'll tell you what. I'm not a great writer but I'll jot down what I can. I want the writing to mutate like ol' Ida. We all can work on this. Teekay, I'm going to really need your help on the beginning.

Oh fun. Well, like Ben, many ideas come right from the notebook. I'll get to work and post what I have later, then as I said, jump in. Let's get this one written together. (PS: Please feel free to jump in, and IMA, if you happen to reincarnate, please add a touch or two. Maybe in this life you'll get your dream. Just a hint, keep it gentle. Life has a tendency toward what goes around comes around. I think you've had enough experience as a spider to know that. (You sure made my neighbor happy!)

Viv Mon Apr 9 04:34:39 PDT 2001

Do you actually own some Mr. Bill tapes??? That is really great. If I send you the tape and a $20.00 bill could you tape it for me. I think the kids would enjoy it. I know we'd all walk around for weeks saying .... "OHHHHHH NOOOOOOO!"

Teekay, I'm hoping IMA is actually an Ida. Ida been a writer but now is well into her reincarnation. I'ma hopin' she's coming back as something that will bring joy. Then she can really claim, IMA writer. Right now, to me, she's an Ida. Ida been but I killed myself tryin'. I think she sort of put herself in the passive tense. Then again, anyone who gets to know me well knows I don't learn your name until I respect what you do. Saves time. Hate to say this but a huge benjo spider came tapping at my window this morning. He/she was as big as my hand. Benjo spiders resemble tarantulas and often live in the gutters of the house. They also like to live in the toilet ditches (hence the name benjo spider). What was really fun was giving that spider a little poke and watching it crash land below on the pavement. My daughter and I said, "Bombs away!!!" I went outside with some newspaper, picked it up and stuck it in a box. I gave it to the neighbor to take to school tomorrow for science. After that it is traveling to juku. If that is Ida...she's going to be quiet busy doing her all for science and education. I don't believe in passive learning! Yay Ida...maybe you are getting to be an Ima after all.

Ben Mon Apr 9 00:17:08 PDT 2001

I just popped in to say hello. I've been trying to come up with an idea for a new story, surfing the web pages and such, and came across some weird Indian picutres. (We're talking East Indian here Randall, not, as my wife says, Red Indian, but she's as close to an East Indian as you can get being that she's from Fiji.) Okay, not weird, just your typical Kamasutra stuff (don't ask me how I found it, I just stumbled on them, honest, but didn't book mark them because the kids use this computer). I liked them though. But there was this neat title under a picture of a half naked woman, THE BASHFUL COURTESAN, and it's kinda stickin' in my mind--not the picture, the title. Pictures of naked women are a dime a dozen, and about as exciting now that I'm an old married man (of course it was a whole other ball game when I was fifteen). But I downloaded it anyway. I showed it to my wife today, saying I found this neat picture on the net I wanted her to look at, and she said--in that bored tone women have when you want to include them in something they don't really care about--"What is it? I can all ready see her nipples." She looked at it and said, "That's nice," and turned her attention back to the Hornblower movie on T.V.

The story, I all ready know--and I haven't written a word yet--will have nothing to do with India, but be more along the lines of a man's nick-name for his wife. I'm sure we all have nick-names for our wives, because I know mine has one or two for me--but they change depending on her mood, and how much I piss her off...but that's love for you, I guess. I don't have any idea about how long it will be, I let them write themselves and figure the length out later, after about three or four pages. Once I hit three or four thousand words, I start thinking about length, because the typical length in the typical mag is about six thousand. If I can wrap it up, I do. If I can't, I let it write itself out.

Anyway, I've got about six or seven really good stories I want to send out to a publisher I found out here of all places. They take short story collections, but usually only want them if they've been published before. But they will look at them even if they aren't. So, now I'm reading them through all over again, trying not to touch them up too much--like that's possible--and hopefully I'll send them out, or maybe I'll just drop them off myself, by next month. I've got a novella I wrote a long time ago that was almost a novel that I've always liked, but I think it has to be re-arranged. I don't want to tackle it because it's just, well, long. But I think I have to do something with it.

Anyway, I'm rambling again--I have a tendency to do that--and it being early still, I have to get to work before I waste the night rambling. See ya'll later,

Heather Sun Apr 8 23:57:20 PDT 2001

Hey there folks!

Viv - have all the Mr. Bill tapes you could stand, and then a few more just for the added zing in open wounds.
Like cayenne at a black pepper party.

Hop, what are you talking about? I had no part in a discussion of that sort, as far as I can remember.

Teekay! Hmmmm. Maybe someone will open up a round robin for stories strictly about satan. That'll be the day.

And I agree we should be doing something with Phantasium. It needs a good kick in the plasma!

Randall's recount of his bad-hood in Phantasium... hmmmm. I don't know, what does Randall (NOT De Voto) think? Oh, Gads, this is what happened last time. I didn't say yes or no, but SOMEBODY got her back up pretty cat-like. Then she RODE off into a blood coloured sunset.

Sherwood, welcome. Pull up a stump and get comfy.

Howard, LOVE how you spoke about the word-pictures. Those are the best kind! They leave a certain distinct impression of the soul, not just of our collective parts, cramped fingers included.

If I'm sounding exhausted and not making too much sense, I'll spill the beans.
I wrote 38 pages on my book this week and I've about senseless as the letters float out onto the screen.

Just think - only 26 little tiny letters, and we have the means to commit our thoughts, our loves, our language onto paper for a good portion of time. What would we do without those 26 gems? All the words we can blast out of ourselves to express even that which resides deep in us, intangible, would not be remembered long. 26 little symbols that mean our livelihood, when you mix them up and set them onto paper. 26 little characters, and without them we'd be sitting fireside, telling the same old jokes.

Ah, language.
Even bigger AHHHH, to the alphabet. Love ya.


Barnabas "Hop" humanarchives@hotmail.com Sun Apr 8 23:14:45 PDT 2001

I've not been posting for long (told you I was busy). In fact I missed a lot of what was typed.

Here's an interesting thing. Since the genetic thing about male and female brains being different is the latest thing everyone believes in genetics determining differences. So now I picked up the feeling that everybody thinks its right because the latest science research shows so. I'll just wait a while until the latest science research shows social/cultural influences to be stronger then say "I told you so."
Point is, the latest science research always changes.

What can I say that has not already been said. The notebook is a success. Instead I present "the future of forwriters.com"

There will be a tradition that the webmaster of the forwriters.com be called Jack Beslanwitch in honour of the creator of the website.

Each day, one of the "first generation" will have his or her profile displayed at the top of the page in their honour.
Each of the first generation will have an Artificial intelligence program which will stimulate their personality so the younger generations can talk to them even though they are gone.

Of course there'll be writing awards named after the people here.

A video chat room will be the norm and you can leave video messages instead of just words.

You might want to check out the Japanese manga series Robotech and some of the Gundam series for help on space-age equivalent air-craft carriers.

About your comment about male and females brought up in a different world I can say that yes. We would have different outlooks.

I don't think a lot of it is actually chemicals at all. Mostly social but my views vary from second to second. What I do believe is that both have an influence.

Check out the sociological section in your local library. There are lots of books on this, a lot. Trust me.

Interesting stalker story. I'm just feeling a bit troubled by it, right now I'm brooding over the fact that this thing still goes on.

The boy and his ball- That's interesting because I've always sat still and observed others. Not too clear what effect it had but I think one of the results was a vivid imagaination.

About the dishes- This I can relate to.
We hand-wash our dishes 99.999% of the time because it saves water and detergent and we can make sure the dishes are washed properly. I think the dish-washer here has been used 3 times. However, with ever computer I have had I've been able to tell if there is a problem by the whines it makes, for example the CD-rom drive has a different whine from the clacking hard-drive.

I'm on holidays as well. Unfortunately I've got a flu. It's a "several day" flu and this is my 3rd day. Hopefully I'll feel better. Allow me to ask, do you feel that stereotypical "glow skin" thing?

Sorry, I've been away and have been trying to catch up on the messages.
Just thought I'd say that I agree that women will always have a different point of view from men and vice versa.
I'm staying away from having female women as the main characters since I don't know how to write from a female point of view. I have them for minor characters and give them brief dialogue which is generic but I try to put them in positions of authourity and make them really intelligent to sort of balance the fact that most of my main characters are male.

However my novel about the avatar will have a woman as the chaos avatar but not a female woman but one who has a very male point of view because of her upbringing as a slave having to fight to survive. This could be one way to avoid the problem of being inaccurate- have a person in a unique situation that genders don't actually matter. If you're a sci-fi and fantasy writer it's so much easier.

About your son and daughter. Did you know, learning how to be a boy or a girl starts once you start interacting with them? Even as young as one year old, boys and girls will already know that some things are meant for boys and girls only. Just how young was your son when he wanted to play with guns?

I don't remember much but I liked to play with swords because I saw how cool the action heroes like he-man were with their swords.

As for cars I use to run them all over the room but that was because I liked the feel of the car against the carpet and the patterns it made.

I was just thinking that writing from male perspective is easier simply because males don't notice anything that isn't life threatening or applicable to them.
For example, I can recite the history of any of my invented universes without too much trouble.

I don't know about highschool students though. Maybe it applies only to Canada (is that right?).

I don't think social engineering runs counter to what people are. Rather the foundation does not take into account the fact that there are women who are different. Sociological, until very recently has been based on the idea that the average person is a male American middle class and of "white" ethnicity (not "race" I found out "race" is the wrong term to use, never use "race", use "ethnicity"). I would substitute a word with "white" but I'm not to sure what the correct term is. European? Caucasian? I don't think European works because Europeans are from Europe while Caucasian is more a "race" than an ethnicity.
Modern sociologists (this includes feminist sociologists) are now trying to change sociology so social engineering takes into account the fact that people have different values, personalities and characteristics.

About race
Race is based on the idea that physical differences is what make people different and that certain races are more evolved than other races. At the top is of course the Europeans/ Caucasians and below them are the other less evolved "races." Sinister isn't it that race is actually so biased?

Post it in the workbook. Hopefully, I'll get to it in 3 months time.

Asking if being plot orientated is bad is like asking if liking apples is bad. Opinions will vary, a lot but there really is no right or wrong.

See above about race.

The archives are sitting in his wife's computer as Jack said at the bottom of the page.

The winters here in N Z are weird to say the least. Sometimes it gets warm and a few days later it gets real cold. Something to do with the geographical location of N Z.

Hello. I'm new too.
Your first post was under the name LJP wasn't it?

Wil Jackson
Hello. I'm new too.

Hello. I'm new too. The others are more prompt but it may take a long while before I get to read your prologue.

Hello. Are you staying or going?

Left handedness
Is anyone here left handed? Just seeing if there are more left-handed writers (proportionately). I've got the hypothesis that left handed people tend to be more intelligent and that there are more left- handed people (proportionately) at the top of any field. The answer varies depending on what books you look at.

Final word
An observation my posts are more formal and lengthy compared to other posts.

Shorty's and Patriotism- I realise this is last last week's theme but I'm catching up. Here's a story I'm thinking about writing. I'm not too sure its related to Patriotism. But it's a sci-fi theme. Again.

"Bladecros unit 4-E Feral model reporting in," he spoke into the visual communication device.

"This is Bladecros base Gold Tango. What is your status 4-E Feral?" the operator at the other end enquired, his face illuminated by the video display.

"I'm too late, the Bladecros unit which sent the distress call was destroyed. Markesul work for sure."

The operator swore, then hardened his face. "What was the Bladecros' number and model?"

"I can't tell what the number was but it looks like a Sonic model. Top-of-line specs from what I can tell. Armour, weapons, reaction time... this suit's a walking battle platform."

"Computer tells me the only Sonic model we have there belongs to Bladecros unit 2-A. She's one of the best suit pilots. According to her dossier, had an accuracy rating of 86% during shooting tests." Her picture showed on the screen.

" Hang on... there's some interference." Video image blinked and died. "Base? Base?" His stomach suddenly felt hollow.

"Engage," he proclaimed. His backpack extended and exploded to form a protective armour around him. The Feral models were known for their speed of deployment.

A burning sensation across his back. Liberators! It was an ambush. He pulled out his weapons. Energy weapons were at maximum power. Targeting systems indicated two warm bodies at eight o' clock.

He fired several blasts then switch targets. The power coursed through his suit. An audio warning sounded as three other Liberators jumped him. He threw them off with ease, the suit enhanced his strength, reflexes and just about everything else.

His legs were suddenly locked in place. Uh oh... he thought. They must have some kind of scrambling device. It's sending conflicting signals through my suit. I'm dead. He knew these things happened.

He fell to the ground, his whole body now paralyzed, even the suit retract controls were jammed.

He felt his suit being cracked open. He squeezed his eyes shut expecting death. Instead a hand hauled him out and pulled him from the suit. The whine of a high power weapon and a huge explosion. He opened his eyes. There was the lost Bladecros unit. She was holding the very weapon which destroyed the suit.

"Confused?" she said. " Don't worry, I'll explain everything."

To be continued. One day.

Teekay ( who's found where the caps lock key lives Sun Apr 8 23:11:58 PDT 2001

Tapping on my hours in the dark hours????? Nor on my windows either.


Hi Again,

VIV: Well seems I won't have to worry about IMA tapping on my hours in the dark hours anymore. Seems she's on her way to your house and when I last saw her she was looking REALLY mean. Her departing words were something like: "Ida? IDA?? I'll teach that slapped up piece to get my name right. When she comes face to face with IMA RYDER she won't go forgettin' my name in a hurry." Or it could've been " in a hairy." I wasn't too sure about those last words coz she was just spitting and scratching and carrying on a right treat.
Anyway, close your windows and lock your doors coz she was looking pr-e-etty crazy.

RANDALL: What a great name for a book on you boy - man adventures! "hell honey! I ain't no native! I was born here!"
Now you've just got to write the book so's you can use the title.

CHRISTI & HOWARD: According to my bossom buddy S.K. You shouldn't over research, just check up on the bits you're writing about. At least I think it was S. K. said that. Probably heaps of writers said that.
There's no need to become an expert on the field you're writing about.

CHRISTI: I was raised a moron too. Guess I still am one. :-D
BTW: You'll have to ask VIV to say howdy to IMA for you. *gulp*

He's ba-a-ack.
Though I don't know for how long. Full to the brim with inspiration or plain old grog - same thing to some.
I welcome him back with open arms.
Welcome home my muse.

Mary Sun Apr 8 22:19:29 PDT 2001

CHRISTI: I think lots of authors hire people to do their legwork. I have always wanted that legwork job. I love to do that kind of thing and can you imagine mentoring under Card that way? Maybe mentoring isn't the right word since you would pretty much just be a grunt, but still, one could absorb a lot from someone that way.

Christi Sun Apr 8 21:53:50 PDT 2001

Howard, Well yah, of course we've got to research, but I'm terrible in that I'll reasearch myself to death, afraid I might miss something and meanwhile not write a bit. So I needed to hear you say that.
BTW, you want to hear something disgusting but kind of cool? Orson Scott Card hires people (probably college students or friends) to do much of the nasty work for him! They research what he wants to know about and then they explain the nuts and bolts of it to him. I lost some respect for him when I read that, but he says he only started that in the past few years and that he does still do a lot of his own research. Then I figured whatever it takes to get him to write more books is okay by me.

Litter, Some problem! Nyah. (Tongue sticking out)
Happy late-birthday! Sorry I missed it!

Welcome Elizabeth and Cindy.

Teekay, If Ima comes back please say 'howdy!' for me. That one was quite the spitfire for an old chick. I wouldn't put it that way, but she herself admitted to pre-dating Methusela. (sp?)
I've actually been working on something for **P** recently. *Groan* Now I'll have to finish it.

Hey Viv, I love Mr. Bill! Wasn't he on Saturday Night Live? I thought they ran his sketches there, but I could be wrong. Sure don't have a copy though, sorry.

Woo woo, Mary! I've always wanted to see someone burst out of a birthday cake.

Randall, I was raised Mormon but I'm not Mormon now, and I'm certain I wouldn't be insulted by your depiction. Curious, yes, but not insulted. ;) The story sounds great.

Picked weeds AGAIN today. Whatta life. It's a lark ... it's a spree! Seriously now, I'm very happy. I nearly finished another children's book in only two days! Guess that makes up for all the recent down-time. Thanks, Heather, for inspiring me!

Kisses to all,


Randall startiki@hotmail.com Sun Apr 8 21:03:20 PDT 2001

Hey all!

Viv! Thank you for the very nice comment, and I thank everyone who remarked on the "Bones" tale. The first 2 books I wrote were a semi-autobiographical, fictional, real life adventure, full of lies rendering. :-) (Bones comes from one of these books.)

But then, what else would you expect from a native born Texan! ("Hell honey! I ain't no native! I was born here!")
:-) From the movie "The Great Race."

No honestly, my first 2 attempts at writing were about life in a small town loosely held together around a hunting trip to Utah in 1979 and 1980. The first tale was an honest rendering of the 1979 trip and our experiences. The second. 1980, used a lot more fiction and with a nod of apology to the LDS church in Utah, brought in 2 Mormon historical figures as commentators, Brigham Young and the Angel Moroni for the Saints; plus the spirits of one David Crockett and ruffian James Bowie for the Texans. Again, you should expect this Lone Star state referance from a Texan who lives only a short way from the Alamo. Texas mileage that is. The referance to Mr. Young and the Angel Moroni were done in good taste (who should go against a prophet and an angel?) and I would not be afraid to let any Morman read the work. That being said I understand the Danites are disbanded and Orrin Porter Rockwell off to a heavenly reward. (BIG GRIN)

Gotta go, work tomorrow.


Mary Sun Apr 8 19:39:36 PDT 2001

BTW, I love to do research.

Mary notdotcalm@yahoo.com Sun Apr 8 19:13:37 PDT 2001

LITTER: Happy Birthday! Dagnabbit, why didn't you tell me? I would have jumped out of the cake!! Just kidding, I am not the kind of girl who jumps out of cakes. Not that anybody has ever asked me to. I can sing a fairly decent "Happy Birthday Song", though. I will save it up for next year.

Viv Sun Apr 8 19:04:13 PDT 2001

That is neat. I am looking at the camera. I think this might be a great starter camera. I really want to get one and get into this. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! What would be fun is to take pictures of the students in my classes and post them. What I ultimately want to do is set up a Website at Tokai for the imaginative kids who don't mind writing in English. I have to require the English because I am in the ESL part. Maybe they can mutate it later or find a way to get things in Japanese published as well. I think we have some really talented kids. I know some of them. We're just getting into computers at our University. We all put our syllabi on line for the first time this spring. It was so bad all our secretaries on the first floor quit!
Allein: Nope, I don't get a chance to see much Manga or cartoons on tv. Our tv is pretty fried. You know you gave me a really cool idea. I'm going to ask my Advanced Oral Communications class to discuss the difference between American and Japanese cartoons. We can bring in shows on video tape and compare them. I've got a copy of Futurama and I think I could find the Simpsons. I know they have Shinchan because he influenced my little girl Hana to misbehave when she was in 2nd grade! He's like Bart Simpson!

EVERYONE: OHHHHHH gosh, does anyone have a copy of MR. BILL? Does anyone know what I'm talking about. He went "OOOOOOOHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" If you know and have a copy of him, PLEASE LET ME KNOW! Why is it this post sounds like a Mr. Bill script?

Oh Allein. That was such a great idea you gave me. I can't wait. Classes start next week on Monday. I hate waiting. I can't wait to see. I have a classroom the size of a small museum. I may have 50 - 60 kids to teach. I am supposed to throw people out if I have more than 30. What I'll say is OFFICIALLY, I have to limit this class but you are invited to visit. They can come and enjoy if they have a little free time. We're going to have so much fun...I think the more the merrier. I divide them up into tables anyway. So what if I move between more groups. Most of this is pretty much topic discussion. I bounce around and see what the group thinks, then I get everyone with an exciting idea to talk about it. I just help when folks get stuck for a word and are too excited to look it up.

Teekay, sorry about the Ida's. When you are good at what you do, sometimes you pick up an Ida or two. She didn't die in vain at all. She died in vanity! I hope she finds another outlet. Instability and irrational raving sure isn't very attractive! I guess some folks find amusing once in awhile. This place is like a public park. As long as she doesn't step on anyone's picnic, she's free to enjoy the site. I find her too disconcerting, so I just won't look her direction. I'd rather read Randall's story about the bones in the graveyard.

Heather: Could Randall put that story in Phantasium? Does it work with what you have in mind at all? It's funny, about things that bother us and it might make a nice tension breaker after a really stressful piece.

Randall I liked what I read there and I learned from it. My little kid character was really awful. I'm trying it out from a different point of view and writing his adventure in your style.

Back to work. Many ideas, not enough time.


Jerry Sun Apr 8 18:03:26 PDT 2001

My birthday is well over a month away, on the 26th of May. Guess they think there is lots to plan, I hear mention of such things as black cakes, black baloons, and that sort of thing. Might be fun, who knows.


Teekay Sun Apr 8 16:51:28 PDT 2001

Morning All,

DEBRA: BRAVO! *clap**clap**clap* I loved your book. I found it insightful and empowering and I think they should hand them out to girls in high school - without the boys knowing, that is, otherwise they might start feeling a bit down.
My eldest daughter read iot last night and she said 'it's alright', which is high praise coming from her. :-) Jolly good job!

SHERWOOD: Ahhhh, England. I just love the idea of England. I have a girlfriend holidaying over there at the moment. She's loving it. I'd like to get there one day.

LITTER: Okay, I've got it! This isn't from personal experience mind you, this is just what 've read. What you should do is just jot down the other story lines to follow up later, or tape them on a cassette, BUT it is MOST IMPORTANT that you don't chuck in what you're doing. If you do that, then you will have very little chance of finishing anything. :-)


HOWARD: I do agree with you. I don't even know why there's a discussion about it. Doesn't it go without saying???

RHODA: Please send some more chapters. You inspire me sooooo much!

ALL: You'll never guess who came tapping at my window in the wee hours of the morning! IMA RYDER!!!!
Seems she's really pissed.
She reckons that her story should've gone into phantasium coz nobodies doing anything with it anyway. She's says it's just sitting there going mouldy and gathering cobwebs.
I said " Ima, what the hell are you doing here????"
She looked about her, real bewildered like and then apologized profusely. Said she was looking for the notebook and must've got her links mixed up. Told me she was going to come back and give us the benefit of her experience, coz she didn't want to have died in vain!!!!!
Maybe we ought to revive 'Phantasium"?

Cindy http://www.geocities.com/sherwood_111/fearofwriting-pressrelease.html Sun Apr 8 14:26:45 PDT 2001

Hi everyone,
Just wanted to let you all know about this great upcoming writing clinic.

FEAR OF WRITING CLINIC for writers & closet writers. Fear of Writing is about expressing yourself. This is a fun workshop to build your writing abs painlessly. And you can star in the sequel.
Saturday, May 19, 10:30 a.m. til 5 p.m. Arvada Center for the Arts and Humanities, Studio 22, 6901 Wadsworth Blvd. Arvada, Colorado.
Workshop fee $75 includes a copy of the book Fear of Writing by Milli Thornton. Limited seating, please register early.
Ph: (505) 737-2888
email: workshops@fearofwriting.com

For more insight into the book and the workshop: http://www.geocities.com/sherwood_111/fearofwriting-pressrelease.html

Cindy http://www.geocities.com/sherwood_111/5.html Sun Apr 8 14:24:09 PDT 2001

Hi Everyone,

My new book, I Love My 'Puter - A fun computer book for beginners!, was recently published and I'd love for all of you to visit my book webpage at my website:

I had a great time writing and publishing it. I recently branched out with the idea by putting the cover image that I painted onto t-shirts, mugs, and mousepads. If you'd like to see this design as well as my other designs, here's the url:
Blessings to you all,

Elisabeth unicorngirl21@sfnfcentral.com http://www.sfnfcentral.com Sun Apr 8 12:59:34 PDT 2001

I created a site for science fiction and fantasy writers. There are forums, review on books and movies, weblinks, and free critiquing by other members. It's an online community for sf snd f writers! So everything on the site is contributed by members. It's the only one of it's kind on the web. So check it out! Again, it's at http://www.sfnfcentral.com !

howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Sun Apr 8 05:24:51 PDT 2001

LITTER -- nightmares? After viewing my pic?! Must be the meds! :-)

CHRISTI -- Thanks, but we still need to get into the research so that we're accurate in the descriptions we give our readers. It really makes our job harder, because we're the ones who have to learn the language in order to make the subject understandable to the reader.

A great part of that research/learning is reading, which is a science in its own right. We read and study, not only in order know more about a specific subject, but also to understand how simple words are best put together to describe that subject. Or any subject.

That's why the word pictures are important, and why this place is so unique. In describing the common everyday events that we share here we practice putting things that we know (or are learning)into word pictures that others can understand and relate to.

Someone else add to this - I gotta run!


Litter Sun Apr 8 04:22:32 PDT 2001

Friends, I have a problem! (Okay, so I've got lots of problems but this one is special…) I don't suffer from writer's block, ever, but I do seem to suffer from writers excess -- even when I'm working, even on something I choose to work on, I cannot stop a flood of ideas for other storylines swamping me. It is very disconcerting. How does one choose which one to follow? Do I pack up what I'm doing and chase alternative ideas? Aaaarrrrrrrggggghhhhhhhh!

ROHWAD -- saw the pick. Started having nightmares. Connection? You decide :o) I also have a Sony Mavica. (I got mine for 'photo-journalistic stuff', too, and it hasn't yet panned out for me either…) Wonderful camera and using floppies instead of very expensive onboard or flash memory is a definite plus. My first digital was an Agfa and it was okay, short on features but okay, but it was a real pain to have to download the images onto a PC, especially on holiday. Sony now do a camera which stores on CDR's -- oodles and oodles of space for images. Alas, lack of funds prohibits its purchase :o(

RANDALL -- I too appreciated your graveyard story. Living in the UK, such stories (Small town America) are kinda alien to us as, I dare say, some of ours are to you. It helps expand our vicarious experiences.

ALLEIN -- Kudos on you results -- way to go!

JERRY -- seems to me that with your past (Viet Nam, Law enforcement, etc.) you are pretty well placed to write the 'Great American Novel' -- lots of experiences of your own and others to draw on. Sounds like a lifetime's work, though. Happy Birthday, when it comes. Mine slipped by a few days ago. It wasn't a special one so there was not a lot happening except to my library, which increase by several welcome tomes on Celtic and Ancient British history. (Always looking for who I am and where I came from :o)

SHERWOOD -- Welcome. There are a select few of us from the UK, countable on one hand at the moment. Is 'Sherwood' your real name or a nom-de-plume? If it is your real name, please tell me that your surname isn’t 'Forest'…

Hands still hurt like hell, so time to go.


Sherwood Sun Apr 8 03:12:27 PDT 2001

What a fine English morning it is here in England.

Jut wanted to say a quick hi to all, and thanks for the welcome - Rhoda, Christi, and Teekay, especially.

Hear from me soon.


Teekay Sun Apr 8 02:06:37 PDT 2001

Hi Everyone,

RHODA: I refuse to answer the novel question on the grounds that I may incrimitate myself. :-) It calls my name, at the moment its a couple of towns away, so until it gets a little closer its persistant nagging is quite easy to block out.

RANDALL: I did have my doubts about Bill's ethics. Especially after what he did to his wife's lippy. YUCK! :-D
I had a feeling you were a good old boy, and that was without seeing your handwriting.

TINA: Thanks for the thought. Come Monday I'll go to the library and see what they have. It's good to be able to walk in the door and not have to slink behind the bookshelves anymore (I'm referring to that horrible fine I had.)

JERRY: Wow, they must be planning a doozy to be planning your birthday a month or so in advance. I have a friend who has a theory about people celebrating their 40th birthdays.
She reckons that you should really celebrate at 60 coz if anything is likely to go wrong it's between 40 and 60.
She reckons that if you make it to 60 then you should have the big party coz then you have a good chance of reaching 90.
As you're 50 you're half way there.
Don't read too much into her theory. She has lots of crazy ones. They're really quite funny.

I have a girlfriend who had a workman fall through her roof. He only landed in the passage though. Imagine that! She must have thought all her Christmases had come at once. :-)

I'm glad to hear you've revived the novel. It sounds fascinating.

EDDIE: Are you trying to tell us something???

SHERWOOD: Welcome to you.

ALLEIN: Congratulations to you.

I had this really fantastic introspective thought on writing to share with you guys,
but wouldn't you know,
I've forgotten it.

Allein peachick2000@hotmail.com http://members.fortunecity.com/peachick2000 Sat Apr 7 22:29:56 PDT 2001

Jerry - HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! (Whenever it is)

Sebastian - Kisses for you and sweet dreams. :)


Christi Sat Apr 7 21:53:15 PDT 2001

Hi folksies.

Debra, I know it's a bit late, but I'm so thankful your little one is okay. :)

Rachel, Fairy kisses for Sebastian.

Howard, Wow. Just wow. Thanks for that. I'll remember your words when I'm deep in my research and need to stop worrying so much. Like NOW! THANKS!

Hey Eddie! You got narcolepsy or somthin'? ;) Nice to see you've survived. What's happening?

Randall, Ha! Nice bit of local justice there I'd say.

Sherwood, If you hang out here it's a sure thing that your writing will benefit. I can guarantee that or your money back! Welcome!
PS I constantly read outside of my genre.

Allein, Congrats! Cheers and a choco-milk mustache to you.

Hey Rhoda, Teekay, Rosemary!

Jerry, Sounds like you're having fun. When's your birthday? Do tell!

Anyone seen Gariess? My but he's been away a long time. And you too, Americo. Come back and say 'hi' guys!

I spent the majority of my thrilling Saturday pulling up weeds in my backyard. My fingers are throbbing and red. They're giving me a reminder that fingers need pampering too. Poor witto nubs.

Bye ya,


Jerry Sat Apr 7 21:43:06 PDT 2001

WOW - talk about spelling and gramar errors, sorry about that, it has been one of those days, I just read that and noticed it all. I think you can figure out what I ment though.


Jerry Sat Apr 7 21:15:21 PDT 2001

Greetings - well as it must visit all, my birthday approaches. Plans abound as to how it will be celebrated. I hear them whispering behind my back, and, you see, everyone knows I am about half deaf, have been since my little excursion to Southeast Asia. At any rate, this is my 50'th, and a large reception is expected. The last time anyone but my wife and I celebrated my birthday was the twenty-fifth, and I do remember the start of that day, the pictures tell me the rest of what happened, but then that was back when we still used spirits.

This weekend, my son and his wife came down for a visit. We were all over at my mom's playing cards when the phone rang. It was my daughter, she was frantic, you see the ceiling of her new house cell down. Well not the whole house, just her bedroom. Seems when the fellow came down last year and put a new roof on the house, he used shingles. Now shingles are good on a slant roof, but this roof is flat. The rain and melting snow ran right under those shingles, and soaked up the sheet rock ceiling. It all fell down on her bed, and all the furniture, new carpet and all. The whole family, except mom, who is now 75 and no longer attends family emergencies, unless required. They went right to work, and removed all the furniture, rolled up the carpet, which now rests over our close line, and moved our daughter back here to our house. Just like old times, now the whole family again sleeping under one roof. Oh and she brought back Dysco the cat, and the latest addition to her family, Goldy, a golden Persian kitten.

Where would we all be without a bit of excitement. As I type this, the rest of the family are sleeping, just Renn and I watching Saturday Night Live, and Renn has fallen asleep to.

Well should get back to writing my Great American Novel, yes, I have revived it, sort of threw out all the old stuff and started over, but it is going well.


Randall startiki@hotmail.com Sat Apr 7 20:45:28 PDT 2001

Evening all!

Thank you my friends for the nice comments on the graveyard tale. :-) Simple pleasures for simple times from simple minds, such was my life 1970-1981 BM (Before marriage). Bill, my friend, mentioned in the tale failed to heed the thin line between right and wrong several years ago. He spent some time in a state prison, drugs, wouldn't you know. Got out for a couple of years, then back in the joint again...drugs. Bill suffered a heart attack since then and walked the straight and narrow for a couple years. Nothing like a taste of your own mortality to give one a new outlook.

Still I accept Bill, as I accept everyone. We all march to the beat of a different drummer! Hey! Linda Rondstat and the Stone Ponies! But some of us never seem to heed the call of maturity, what's right and what will get you 5 to 10. Honestly, I'm too big a coward to try anything really criminal. Annnnnnnnnnnnd Bill has told me that in the crossbar hotel there is little to protect you from the evil intent of seriously perverted malcontents.

Say! Had my handwriting analyzed last week. The guy seemed to know his P's and Q's. He circled several areas of my signature, indicated to me what they meant. Should come as no surprise to those who read my posts and between the lines. Said I was a Good Old Boy, no or little ego, thoughtful, considerate and on an even keel. Well, shoot! I knew that all along!

A lot of folks talk about what they read. Frank Hebert is hard to beat. Watched the SF channel version of "Dune" just last week. Whoa, how about them sandworms!!! That gives a whole new meaning to Tread Lightly! :-) I'm now reading for the second time Benard De Voto's "Across the Wide Missouri." If I could write like Mr. De Voto, string words and insights and facts together as he, I'd think I had died and gone to Heaven! Reading Mr. De Voto is something of a downer, because I know I could never, ever, never write like that. Ah well. Perhaps Mr. De Voto would never, ever, never write like Randall!!!! And Thank Goodness, eh?

See ya guys and girls!!!


Rhoda Sat Apr 7 20:36:40 PDT 2001

has left the chat room.

Rhoda Sat Apr 7 19:57:05 PDT 2001

In the chatroom.

Mary notdotcalm@yahoo.com Sat Apr 7 19:36:45 PDT 2001

RHODA: Your fish would have been better off if you hadn't left them any food at all while you were gone. They could go for weeks without eating...five days would be a cake walk for them. They aren't like regular pets that have to be fed and watered everyday. Their metabolisms are different. Not to say that they could sustain frequent fasts, but a five day vacation? Sure.

Rhoda rfort@familynet.net Sat Apr 7 18:30:30 PDT 2001

I did the highly artistic and literary task of cleaning out my garage today. I started out wishing to do my garden. I bought landscape timbers at Wal-mart and then tried to find my tools to build my box and could not. So I emptied out boxes all afternoon, and I am beat.


I am still trying to master digital cameras one step at a time. I need to go to Best Buy and get a bigger card for my Olympus before I go on vacation at the end of the month. I finally got my Olympus to offload onto my Sony computer. Forgive me, but I am about 10 years behind the times. Howard, I loved your picture. I was not a bit surprised at how you looked. You appearance fits your personality on the Notebook.

Last November I found a critique partner at the Romantic Times convention. It is so fun to trade chapters with another writer who writes similar things. I feel that my writing has greatly benefitted.

I feel so guilty because there is so much on the Workbook and I have not been able to read it. I will work to remedy that.


I hope you are enjoying your week-end and are relaxing with family. It sounds as if your workweek is horrendous. I hope all goes better.


Great to see your posts again. I hope you feel better soon.


Welcome to the Notebook. I hope we can inspire you and commiserate with you on the frustrations of writing. Speaking of little keyboards, my husband wants one of those little computers whose size is between a hand held and a notebook. The stock market took a tumble here, so we will have to put that off a bit.


Give the wee one a kiss for me. He sounds like a doll and I enjoy reading about him.


Loved your graveyard story. I never knew they could be that exciting. I envy people who can pull that stuff off. I too am playing fast and loose with the law. I keep forgetting to get my car inspected, and I am going to be in big trouble if I don't do it soon. Oh, for New Mexico, where there were no auto inspections. Nothing more fun than living life on the edge.


I hope all is well with you. I am glad you have gotten over your Notebook addiction and can now be more productive with your work, but I do miss you, not to mention Jon and Pussy. Give the kitties kisses for me.

Viv and Mary,

I have three goldfish left. We went on a five day vacation and left them a food paramid with tubafix worms. We got back and the fish were almost dead. They were bloated, slow and the water was horrible. I threw away the paramid, changed the filter and gave them water changes two days in a row. Amazingly they survived, and they are now their old selves. I think I should have stuck to cats. They are so much easier.


How is the novel going?

Got to go. Not much posting this week-end, so I felt honor-bound to oblige.


howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Sat Apr 7 16:38:44 PDT 2001

VIV - and anyone who wants to try digital photography - check out www.googlegear.com for the following:

IXLA Digital Camera Suite Plus
( w/ additional 2 packs of Kodak Photo Paper )

Googlegear Part#: 703741-A
In Stock:
Manufacturer: IXLA Limited
Manufacturer SKU: IXLDCDP
List Price: $99.99
Our Price: $24.99
You Save: $75.00

I bought one for my granddaughter. Looks okay so far. It's not top-shelf, but it's not a bad deal for a starter camera.
Googlegear is one of the online catalog dotcoms I've dealt with, and they seem to be very reliable. Others are www.egghead.com, www.compusource.com, and several more. Haven't had a problem yet buying online, except for a couple of the rebate offers, where they didn't want to accept the online sales receipt for the proof of purchase. YMMV, of course...

Allein peachick2000@hotmail.com http://members.fortunecity.com/peachick2000 Sat Apr 7 15:28:57 PDT 2001

Okay, I've left you in suspense long enough - I got straight A's this term. :) YAY!!! PARTY AT MY HOUSE - OPEN KEG!!! Of chocolate milk. :p

Anyway, I've also found lots of Japanese Disney songs on Napster so I'm happy. :)

And my Kodomo no Omocha tape came in the mail - ULTRA HAPPY HYPER!!! Unforunately it's 29-32 and I have yet so see episodes 25-28, but that should come soon too.

Viv - Have you ever seen Kodomo no Omocha - it's one of my favorite animes. :)

Sherwood Sat Apr 7 14:09:09 PDT 2001

I apologise for any spelling or grammar errors in my last post. I have to type on a ridiculously small keyboard.

Sherwood Sat Apr 7 13:56:30 PDT 2001

Well hi to you all!

Just noticed this great website while surfing around, and wow I wish I'd found it earlier. I noticed from reading the posts that the notebook has recently celebrated it's 5th anniversary. Wow!! If I'd had a resource like this five years ago my writing would have come on in leaps and bounds insead of the slow moronic dribble of work I've produced in the last few years. I'm hoping that maybe now I can communicate with you guys a bit, my writing will benefit.

Just for the record, I've been scribbling yarns for about seven years now, dealing mainly with horror and fantasy topics. I've had some limited success placing things on the internet and with the small press, but nothing major.
Anymore questions on me? I'd be happy to enlighten you.

Before I start to babble, can I ask you guys about your reading tastes. Do you read exclusively in the genre in which you are writing? Is it wise and productive to read something out of your chosen genre occassionally? What are some of your all-time favourite, inspirational books? Just a few questions to attempt to keep this already damned-good notebook on top-form.

Thanks guys (and gals, of course).

Speak to you soon.

Sherwood, UK.

Viv Sat Apr 7 10:25:48 PDT 2001

Thank you Howard for the camera idea. Rats, another thing to want. Just what I need.

Well, one happy thought, photographic equipment is always for sale second hand. If it's computer-stuff it gets cheaper the longer you wait...so, In a couple of years I can get one of those digital cameras easily!

Randall: I loved that cow in the graveyard story! It was so well told! I read that like I was glued to the screen. It's 2:24 AM so I'm sort of floating out of my chair, but you caught me with that one.

Mary: Is the theme pranks? What fun! Hope everyone has a good one like Randall!

Night guys! I'm off to bed.

Tina Sat Apr 7 00:41:10 PDT 2001

Heyo! Ohey!

Teekay, what Rosemary said. The Pern books are the best of Anne McCaffery's novels. The first one is 'Dragonflight'. It is one of her earliest novels; she really hits her stride in the second and third installments, 'Dragonquest' and 'The White Dragon'. I'd offer to do the book exchange thing and send you my copy, but it's so tattered and worn and torn that I don't think it'd survive!

Eddie, pleasant dreams. Methinks you deserve them.

Rachel, it is good to have a partner like that. I often train with my hubby, and sometimes he's just too rough, even with the other guys. But it's still great!

About details. Details can't be placed just to impress the reader, and they can't be allowed to bog down a story. But I think that getting the details wrong - or just sweeping over them generically - is a sign of laziness. Editing is the perfect time to ensure that simple terms and explanations are correct and well integrated because, as Rosemary said, readers will find the mistakes and let you know.

I totally agree, Howard, that too much detail makes dry prose. But too little detail makes it uninvolving, and mistakes ruin credibility.

If you've seen 'Good Will Hunting' you'll know this reference. When a character refers to the 'Fields Medal' as a very prestigous award given to mathematicians, it is a genuinely real award given to mathematicians. But when they refer to a complicated math problem as an 'unsolved problem in advanced Fourier series', it's just an impressive description. In the first instance, enough viewers will know the difference between a true medal and a fake one, so they get it right by consulting with a real mathematician. In the second instance, few viewers will know the difference between a real and a false advanced Fourier series problem, so it's okay to fudge it a bit. But not completely. There is such a thing, but the problem they show has nothing to do with advanced Fourier series. The result: unless you read this months Discover magazine, you wouldn't have a clue about the truth, but the movie was convincing and satisfying for the majority of viewers. That's the importance of getting detail right.

'Nuff for now.

Randall startiki@hotmail.com Fri Apr 6 19:00:27 PDT 2001

Hey! TGIF you'all!!!!!!!!!!!

Was driving through town last week and spotted my friend Bill crawling from under a local bank. As this merited closer observation I stopped to chat...and inquire if perhaps I could get a share of the loot. He grinned and said no, they had had a plumbing problem and his company was a'fixing it. Bill was the first person who gave me the 4 essentials in being a plumber.

1. Crap runs downhill

2. Payday is on Friday

3. The boss is an SOB

4. No fee is too large

He looked at me and asked if I had been down to the graveyard lately? I told him no, trying to stay away from that palce as ling as possible! We both looked 'round, then laughed.

Bill and I walked the narrow path that seperated legal from illegal many years ago. Not exactly the outlaw trail, but darn close. Annnnnnnnnnnd once upon a time Bill helped me bury several cow bones in a local graveyard. I furnished the bones and skull. He furnished a shovel, his wife's lipstick (which she threw away later.) Forced to be brief because of the ruffled feathers this caused among local citizens, I'll scan the highlights.

Bill and I were sitting in our PU (pickup) just outside the graveyard one warm summer night having a cold one, ah, beer. The graveyard lay just outside town and was where street cruisers turned around while making the drag. There were several of us boys there, drinking, talking, causing no harm. It was a quiet secluded location where prying eyes and wives seldom cared to venture. Sort of like a poor boy club surrounded by dead relatives and friends and total strangers. To our surprise a deputy sheriff showed up along 'bout midnight and informed us that the cemetary association had lodged a complaint against us and then "invited" all for a short drive downtown. Claimed we was tresspassing.

I don't know where you'all are from but injustice in these parts is sin, plain and simple. And sin must be addressed, from the pulpit or otherwise. A totally unwarrented act cost us boys 100.00 smackers apiece and a night in the hoosegow. Somebody WOULD pay.

Next evening was when Bill and I buried the cow bones. Okay, when one digs a grave there is excess dirt leftover. The reason is plain and needs little explaining. This dirt is usually piled at one end of most graveyards. And used in topping off (Topping off, Randall!) grave sites as they age. As all things do. We planed the cow skull deep in this pile of dirt and several bones on top. But left a leg bone partially sticking out.

Sure enough the next morning there was a flurry of activity at the graveyard. Seems Ms. Goody Two Shoes, cemetary association chair person, was jogging down the road, paused to rest and saw a human bone sticking from a pile of dirt. The panic was immediate and irreversible. (Like my Fruit of the Looms!) Sirens raced through town, all converging on the graveyard. A resident of the graveyard had been evicted, exposed, torn from Mother Earth to lie bare in the hot Texas sun!

As a good portion of the town gathered, a deputy sheriff began to tenderly dig. Off to one side the cemetary association stood wilting under the eyes of enraged townfolk. But the most pale faced individual was the poor backhoe operator. He was wiping his face with a big red bandanna, sweating buckets. Ms. Goody Two Shoes was nearly prostrate under a tree, attended by Old Doc Jones. (Known as Old Doc Bones to us.)

Course, Bill and I were taking all this in from atop my pickup cab. As the crowd grew emotions were sky high. People began to wonder who the poor person was, must have been a recent burial...and in Gods name were there more!!!!

A hush alerted us (away from the beer cooler that is) and we watched as the red faced deputy sheriff gingerly removed what could only be a human skull! First the top of the white skull, then a little more. The crowd, now more than a hundred edged forward, eager to see the onetime, but now deposed resident.

The deputy leaped to his feet and shouted, "Oh GOD" as a horn prodded his gloved hand.

Only the strong hearted in the throng stayed, most others broke for safety. I can still see the deputy, holding the cow skull, dirt falling from his hands.....and his eyes glaring at poor Bill and I.

Well, our gang was as tight as the James and Younger boys, so no one could prove anything. Still we stayed away from the graveyard for a few days. Fun in a small town.


Oh. The lipstick? Why, 'round the cows upper jaw bone. Where else?

Rosemary Fri Apr 6 18:09:10 PDT 2001

Hi again,
If you like Si/Fi and fanasy, you'll probably love Anne McCaffery's books. I don't know how many books she has written but I would guess over thirty. Focus on the Pern books, I think they are the best. All are good, but Pern is the best.
I read her biography written by her son. It was very interesting but poorly written. Maybe writing talent is not inherited.

I half-way agree with you and half-way with TINA. You do not have to bore the reader with too much in the way of technical terms but at the same time, you need to get as much right as possible. From what I hear, you'll hear from readers on every error, no matter how small. Also, if the publisher/editor knows the difference, it'll make a bad impression. (if it gets read or sold.)

Bye for now,

Eddie French Fri Apr 6 17:53:01 PDT 2001

Hello all,
I wuz jus' zzzzzz zzzzzzz zzzzz zzzzzz zzzz zz
zz zzz z z

Teekay Fri Apr 6 17:45:48 PDT 2001

MARY: HAHHAHAHA well, I tried your advice about sleeping with the writers digest on my face, but I guess I was s'posed to sleep for longer than I did. Unfortunately the ink didn't have time to absorb into my brain and only got as far as my face. Anyone know a good ink remover???

TAYLOR: Good luck to you. It's great when you get those spurts of total dedication isn't it? I'm curious to see how long you'll actually be able to stay away for though. I wish you all the best.

DEBRA: Thanks :-)

TINA: Here we call them fly veils. You probably don't give a damn what they're called any more, but I thought I'd throw my 2 cents worth in :-).

ROSEMARY: I haven't heard of Anne McCaffery. I'm really between authors at the moment so I'm going to see if I can find any of her books. I'm still waiting for a copy of 'the resurectionists' to be available at the library.

Have to hurry, full day today. First we're going to watch a friends play, then it's soccer, then I have a Mary Kay party to go to.
Hmmmm wonder if I'll see a pen in my travels today.
Doubt it. :-C

Gabe Gabekk@aol.com http://forwriters.org Fri Apr 6 15:44:56 PDT 2001

Really got into haiku writing (Since it was forced on me by my english teacher), and I tuoght I'd share a bit.

A stout little man
A look of memorized joy
An expensive slut
Meandering through
Crevices of another
His flagpole grows full
Aids: you can’t spell it
Any other way. Don’t try
To size it up. Don’t

Debra Fri Apr 6 14:14:05 PDT 2001


I see them.

That's why I come too.

Howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Fri Apr 6 13:24:41 PDT 2001

Re: Flynets -- I had posted this just before the html hit the fan, so I think it got lost, but here's a copy:

Tina wrote:

"...they probably do have a totally ordinary name like 'fly nets'. I just hate getting technical terms wrong in my story."

Not to nit-pick or anything, but that brings up an important point in our writing.

(I am only using this as an example!!!)

And since there are new writers here, and since we're all here to learn, I think the following observation would be appropriate: Accuracy in "technical terms" is very important in technical (instructional) writing. We must not leave out those jots and tittles lest we confuse the reader that we're trying to instruct. That audience demands and expects that level of accuracy.

Writing for entertainment, however, is different. Most of that audience is unprepared to deal with technical accuracy, and must be pampered with generics. In effect, we as writers are translating the technicalities for the reader, so that he doesn't have to stop and do it for himself.

The technical name for those fly nets may be very important in a saddle supply catalog, but remember the horse only wants his eyes protected, and the reader only sees that when you tell him in his own terms. Or when you show him.

Does anyone here besides me see the pictures in this place? Oh sure, the puppies were cute, and all that, but I'm talking about the real pictures.

Like the one of the beautiful girl riding her horse on a winter's night, or the magazine-inspired dreams of a 12-year old about the horse she'll someday own. Or the picture of Black Jack's last birthday party. Or the kids sitting around the radio or tv on Saturday morning, watching cartoons. (That was me on the floor at the end of the couch).

Even the darker pictures - the flooded basement, the kids lying awake late at night, afraid to go to sleep, the fear of being in an abusive relationship, the heartache that the viewer may never experience, but should know that others do.

Some of these bring back memories - good or bad - and some bring us experience that we might never have known but for the one who took the time to record it for us. All of them play an active role in the growing that we all must do.

Sasquatch talks about the "racial memory" that enables him to know what his ancestors saw and experienced. I think I know what he means. I think that we are recording a sort of racial memory in places like this, in the musings and writings that we share.

That's why I never tire of coming to this gallery.

Now I have to go and install a toilet.

Chris CidLeyMusic@aol.com http://www.CidLey.com Fri Apr 6 13:04:56 PDT 2001

For all the writers out there:

The Cid Ley band has come together with several other artists and formed an organization based at http://www.KillingGame.net

The sites primary use, is to expose projects that artists are involved with for fans and for artists looking to join projects.

This site needs writers out there looking for exposure or for some fun writing. We will accept anything. Poetry, articles(Must be music industry based), stories(anything), music reviews, etc.

The site will be up and running April 8, 2001. If you would like to submit material, e-mail it to CidLeyMusic@aol.com and include information about yourself. (name, other publications, country, etc.) If you want to write reviews, let us know and we'll hook you up with artists to interview or music to critic.

Thanks for your time,
Chris Onyak
The Cid Ley Band

Rachel Fri Apr 6 11:59:49 PDT 2001

Taylor - Sebastian and I wish you well. We'll see yah when we read yah.

Tina - I know all about the soft thing (grins). I'm not slop and sog soft, but I'm not what I would call tight either. I'm a bit of a curvation station to start with, so even when I am fit, I don't look hard. Another good thing about regular work partners is that they know you and they know what you can do. They cut you slack where and when it is needed and no place else. My partner knew when I couldn't do any more in class. He knows that I don't just quit. When he saw me at a point where it was getting pathetic and I still wouldn't give up, he lent a hand. He let me go till he knew I needed help, to help me sooner would have ticked me off. I guess that is another indicator that the people I work with in karate know me pretty well. Ah, and yes, it did feel great to get back into it. I've been excited about going back to karate for a little while now. It was hard to wait and as long as I did. I gave Sebastian a little kiss for you. He was half asleep when I did it and did the little eye roll thing. I think that is so funny!

Ciao for now,


Tina Fri Apr 6 09:46:13 PDT 2001

How about 'almost'? hehehe

Tina Fri Apr 6 09:45:41 PDT 2001

Thank you Rosemary! Fly mask it is. Funny. A bridle is a bridle, a saddle is a saddle, but a *fly mask* can be anything! (alsmot)
While Anne McCaffery is not Tolstoy, her novels have an amasing ability to capture and hold the reader in her world, to really care about her characters. I strive to create that wonder in my own writing, and I admire her greatly.

taylor, write on and be well.

Mark, haven't sent it yet but I will.


Rosemary Fri Apr 6 09:25:20 PDT 2001

Morning all,
Good weather coming your way for the next few days,(I hope, its humid but warm here.) Hope your move is about over. I know it's a lot of work.

When Jack gets that section of the notebook back, near the top should be a post from me about problems our police department is having. I thought you might be interested.

A new livestock catalog just arrived so I looked up your fly guard. It seems to come in many different names,(depending on manufacturer.)shapes and colors. They come with and without ears. They come in three or four sizes. Some of the names are --Bug Out Flymask, SuperMask, EarGuard, SuperSheet Protective fly mask, Ultra shield fly bonnet w/ears. They also have fly wraps for legs-to protect wounds from fly irritation and promote healing. There's even a Bug Out Patch Kit.
The general term seems to be --fly mask--. Hope that helps some. Glad we don't have that much of a problem here.

Just finished Anne Perry's latest book. Has an interesting theory on Jack the Ripper. (Her books are mysteries set in the eighteen hundreds. Two series and both excellent. Her research is impeccible and historical buffs would really enjoy them.)

I was elated to see how many of you love Anne McCaffery's books. I never mentioned my obsession with them, I was afraid they might be a bit below this AUGUST group. Of course, I also love Harry Potter Books. Third childhood coming on.
Writing can be a pain.

Debra Fri Apr 6 06:08:38 PDT 2001


I wish I were there. That sounds like something you should try to collect as best you can and write it down. I'd read it, twice.

That is exactly what I was wondering. I hope I get this emergency thing right some day. Of course that would mean I had more practice. No maybe it's better this way.


taylor Fri Apr 6 05:16:05 PDT 2001

this is gonna be my last post for awhile...thanks for all your help in moral support, believe it or not i found some
Its just for awhile Im going to concentrate solely on my novel

Rachel: good luck to you and Sebastion, keep well

Teekay: maybe someday you'll see me in print I hope, nice to see another Australian author, sometimes I feel there's just not enough of us

I may drop in in a week I may not, theres so much more I want to say, but I want to leave you all with this one last thought

'Life is not like a box of chocolates
Life is like a train ride, the track is our current path, it has the normal twists and turns of our life
Outside the window, life passes us by, giving us but glimpses of whats really out there
We can stop at any station, a thing to learn...take in whats around, doing this and you may find another track to follow or decide to go on till the next stop'

It sounds a little corny I know, but something I felt like sharing

humour, HA HA HA(sarcastically) I say that because I want to do comedy writing, but I think that many people wont see the funny side of some things I say
After all I am a great fan of Andy Kaufman

I hope the notebook continues far
Sorry about the length of the post, this is NOT a final goodbye, just a ta ta for awhile

Jack Beslanwitch Thu Apr 5 23:57:15 PDT 2001

For those wondering where the archive for the last little while is residing. I am waiting until I get my upgraded computer back, hopefully this Saturday. Then, with any luck I will make the appropriate surgeries to the HTML code and post it. Feeling a bit bummed since I did a first in my seven years on the internet. I posted a private message, a very critical private message, to a general mailing list by mistake. Here is hoping that nothing bad comes from this, but I have to admit to a big indulgence in my own humanity. Take care everyone.

Tina Thu Apr 5 23:56:48 PDT 2001


Rachel, I just had a refresher on why guys are so paranoid about working with girls at the dojo. We have two relatively new gals training, and they are so... soft! That sounds bad, I know, but they just lack a firmness in movement and commitment, and they don't like to hit or be hit. It serves to remind me of why the guys are so cautious, even though I make it clear that I don't break.
Doesn't it feel good to get back to training? When I couldn't train for 10 months (the local dojo closed for awhile) it was pure bliss to start training again. Give Sebastian a kiss on his forehead for me!

Started reading 'The Odyssey'. Oh my. Haven't read such old english in a looonnng while. I love it, but have to go slow. Still, I'm enjoying it immensely.

Hallee, hope your move is settling in!


Mary Thu Apr 5 21:35:35 PDT 2001

Everyone is excused from shortie night seeing as how I had no idea it was Thursday. I completely missed it. Sighs. I think we all needed a week off anyway. Especially since nobody else even mentioned it. Store up for next week, People, the theme will be DISCOVERY.


oh, TEEKAY: I have heard that if you leave the Writer's Digest open over you face while you sleep, the stuff in there absorbs directly into your brains through osmosis. I haven't seen any solid evidence that it actually works though.

Jerry Thu Apr 5 20:44:27 PDT 2001

Teekay - I recall that age, my kids were a year apart, so the terriable threes came twice, and each was accompanied by an accomplice who simply loved to get the other in trouble. We awoke one morning, shortly after Christmas, to hear giggling coming from the kitchen, investigation showed both kids were up, they decided to fix breakfast, so opened the fridge, took out all the eggs, many of which broke when the hit the floor, then to make the mess look good, the emptied a pint of approcot brandy into it, and put some ketchup on top of the mess. They were both sitting in the middle of this mess, painting eachothers faces with it. Wish I would have had a camera, and it would have been very funny except some idiot put carparting in the kitchen before we moved in. What a mess that was to clean up.


PS Sure glad the russians didn't drop that space station on your house, I was worried there for awhile when all was quiet down your way.

Teekay Thu Apr 5 19:03:34 PDT 2001

Heydee hodie all you notebook a roonies,

Well still haven't picked up a pen, though yesterday I did pick up the latest Writer's Digest. Now all I have to do is open it and read it and hopefully that will do something to re excite my muse whom I'm sure is off in some pub somewhere topping up on his inspiration.

DEBRA: How horrible for you and I'm awfully glad your daughter's alright. I had a bit of a chuckle when you said that you hope that's not the way she thinks it should be done. I had visions of her as at the scene of an accident and she orders the gathering crowd to "stay back everybody, I have the situation under control. I know excactly what to do." and then she starts pacing back and forward and muttering and making screaming sounds - and, well, you get the idea.

I'm revolting in emergencies too.
Once at work our emergency alarm went off and it was a really horrible one, guaranteed to send your heartbeat from 60 to 200 in 5 seconds. It sounded like 800 panicking horses running at full speed. Scary!
Well anyway, there were about 5 of us standing around the nurses station (working of course) and the dagblasted thing went off. It was soooooo funny to think of it after wards.
Each person simply shot off in all different directions (except me, coz I was behind the desk and I only had one way out, but my feet were just running on the spot) when it occurs to everybody that they haven't got a clue what room the alarm is coming from coz nobody checked the board, the alarm just set their adrenalin gushing and they had to do something, even if it was just to run around in circles.

Anyway, turns out on this occassion it wasn't an emergency at all, just somebody accidently leaned against the button in the showers.

Guess you really had to be there to appreciate the full humour of it all.

I was against that alarm system from the word go. I wanted them to put in the one which said in a really calm and relaxing American accent
"Code blue, code blue, just relax and take deep breaths and procceed at your leisure to room 6. Just relax, everything is going to be juuuuuust fine. No, no, don't rush, finish off that cup of tea first."
Okay, I made up the last bits, but I think that one would have been much more effective than the one they did pick.

HOWARD: I'm honoured. Is that a recent photo? You had shaved your moustache off the last I heard and was going to grow it back again.
I think Yosemite Sam more than Colonel Sanders. I think I've said that though. I prefer Yosemite Sam. He has much more character. :-)

So the terrible two's aren't a myth at all. So far my son and heir has poured jif all over the kitchen floor. Pulled out 2 of my 'snap dragons' Only 2, so I'm pretty lucky. Emptied a packet of 'Mamie Noodles' over the lounge room floor and whacked the cat over the head with the doorstop and this was all before 10am.

Later gators.

Sean Brijbasi sbrijbasi@hotmail.com http://www.Darkbloom.net Thu Apr 5 12:47:55 PDT 2001

Read message below, and click on link here...


Sean Brijbasi sbrijbasi@hotmail.com www.Darkbloom.net Thu Apr 5 12:37:47 PDT 2001

Hello all,

I'm not sure if shameless self-promotion is allowed here or not, but I've got a book out "One Note Symphonies" that's gotten very good/excellent reviews. It's a collection of short stories, some previously published, some not. I'm doing an interview next week on the site I've listed. I'm also going on a book tour at several Barnes&Noble bookstores in the Washington DC area to promote my book, as well as readings in the area. So, I'm not blowing smoke if I say it might be worth your while to check it out. The Darkbloom people have been helpful in promoting my book because they read it and thought it was 'great', and I'm a local DC author and they're based in DC. So, anyway, if you get a chance, check out the site and click on my book....


Debra Thu Apr 5 12:02:54 PDT 2001


Thanks. I needed that. Still!

Rachel Thu Apr 5 11:54:46 PDT 2001

Debra - I send you a strong hug. I'm very happy that Gracie is okay.

Take care you,


Charlotte Jackson Beloved_Angelus@yahoo.com Thu Apr 5 11:19:57 PDT 2001

Can someone read my prologue and give me their honest opinion about it?
it would really be a help to me :)

Debra Thu Apr 5 11:10:29 PDT 2001

Gracie fell down the stairs yesterday. She had to sit in the kitchen chair bleeding from the eye watching me pace back and forth in front of her about fifteen times shaking my hands like I was getting ready for a swim meet,
grabbing her chin while looking at her eye and making a screaming sounds, poor kid. I wonder if she thinks that is how it's supposed to be done. I'm terrible in emergencies.

She's fine now. I'm still a little off. The gate
is glued shut. Well it should be.

How's that for brilliant?

taylor Thu Apr 5 09:05:34 PDT 2001

Howard: yes I know what you mean about fears of something, theres something that gives me goosebumps when I talk about them, and that is firearms...
They scare the hell out of me

the brilliant piece of writing, I'll read over it again in a week or two and see how it is then

What Jack said in 'As Good As It Gets' i can try it that way

Its fun creating a story, get to decide in the end, who lives, who dies, and who has a breakdown
a little joke thing

I still havent heard about my short story yet, since its my first one sent off to get published, I feel a little anxious about it sometimes
Every day is closer to finding out whether it gets published this time round or not

Rachel Thu Apr 5 09:05:09 PDT 2001

Allein - Good luck to you (hugs)!

Teekay - Hey there:D

Mary - Sebastian is getting so big! He is now eleven pounds. He is also a long baby. I think he was twenty-four inches. I don't pay attention to his lenght. I know he is going to be tall. I just want to make sure he is gaining weight. I like plump babies. Sebastian is a wiggle worm. He loves to be held, he also wants to look at everything. He has to follow each sound and voice that he hears. He gets tired, then does the head bump thing. I saw your mention of back pain. I can relate! Last night Sebastian was fussy. I ended up doing the mommy walk for close to two hours. My back is killing me!

Ben W - Yup, the head rolls are to much fun at all. I see the male/female POV talk. I write from both. I have gained confidence with writing from the male POV over time. I still sometimes have men who come off sounding a little off...

Litter - I did the nesting thing in a big way. Dan also nested with me. Not to the same extent, but he did the nesting thing.

Mary - When I was in school I put my books in a pack. I did this between each class and on the way to and from school. I wanted to have my hands free. I'm a major hand talker. I also tend to touch. If I did carry my books I was a hip slinger. I would only carry them if they were minimal. Due to the hip hold I tossed my books down the stairs and scattered them across more than one hall. No wonder I liked to have them in the pack. They couldn't get away from me there.

Tina! I'm getting my hair cut short on Friday. I'm talking very short. At least that is the plan. I may decide against it. I haven't had really short hair for a couple of years.

I also work wiith guys in my martial arts. I have a set of people who I do work out with. We have become comfortable with each other. I mean, if I have to wrap my legs around a guy I want to know him fairly well (grins and laughter). I will not work out with people who feel they need to prove something. I'm not into that.

I had my first day back at karate last week. The abs work almost killed me, but other than that I was fine. It really feels good to be back into stuff.

Howard - So there you are! Nice to see you:)

Take care all,


Mary notdotcalm@yahoo.com Thu Apr 5 07:37:22 PDT 2001

HOWARD and VIV: My digital camera is a Hewlett Packard (low end). I was pleasantly surprised at the quality of pictures it takes. All of the pictures I have posted links to here were taken on that camera. It takes a flash card though, no floppies. I just download the camera contents to my hard drive, then reformat the flash card. It holds 15-80 pictures, depending on my settings, before I have to start dumping them. It has paid for itself already.

Howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Thu Apr 5 06:17:55 PDT 2001

VIV - I have a SONY MVC-FD95 digital camera. Takes pictures on floppy disks. I really like it, though it's a bit hard to get used to. It takes movies, stills, with sound, even. Can view the pictures right on the camera, or put the diskette in my floppy drive and do whatever with it.
I had planned to use it for some photo-journalistic stuff, but that hasn't panned out yet. Mebbe someday...

Howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Thu Apr 5 06:17:46 PDT 2001

VIV - I have a SONY MVC-FD95 digital camera. Takes pictures on floppy disks. I really like it, though it's a bit hard to get used to. It takes movies, stills, with sound, even. Can view the pictures right on the camera, or put the diskette in my floppy drive and do whatever with it.
I had planned to use it for some photo-journalistic stuff, but that hasn't panned out yet. Mebbe someday...

howard htuckey@stny.rr.com http://www.457thbombgroup.org/ Thu Apr 5 04:45:25 PDT 2001

Eeeewwww! It worked!

RANDALL - (I think it was you) and anyone else interested in military history (especially WWII)- check out the url above. It has 1000+ photos, many stats, bios, etc, of the 457th Bomb Group. B-17s galore! Some amazing pictures here.

TEEKAY - Jack has that last archive offline, fixing it. I set it all to italics, then someone completely "April-fooled" it.

I remember the book thing - we had one or two guys who carried their books "like a girl." Neither of them played football...
Dunno if it's germane, or even relevant, but we discussed this at work the other day. Picture a quiet room, with an equal number of men and women seated around in it, talking, reading, etc. Stick your head in the door and quietly go "psssst." How many of either gender will look up?

ANFSCD - What are you afraid of? I don't mean the "Eeeek! A mouse!" kind of scared, I mean real, gut-wrenching fear. Your throat gets dry just thinking about it. Do you know that wake-up-in-a-cold-sweat-and-you-know-you're-awake-but-you-can't-stop-the-nightmare level of fear? I know what mine is, and I know that I don't want to go to sleep tonight because I'll go through it again. Yet it fascinates me. Draws me in. Anybody know what I mean?


Would you believe that right after I posted the cable went down again!! I tried to post this last night, but couldn't.
Never had that dream - slept like a log.

Mary notdotcalm@yahoo.com Thu Apr 5 00:11:21 PDT 2001

TEEKAY!!!!!!!! SSSSHhhhrrrriiieeeeek! Big hugs, I missed you girlie!!

HOWARD: Gotta love ya. ;-)

Another thing about the male/female POV thing which I can't believe I forgot. In the Jack Nicholson movie, "As Good As It Gets", Jack plays a writer. One of his female fans asked the character, "How do you write women so well?" Jack looked at her serious as all get out and said, "It's very simple. I just think of a man and then I take away all reason and accountability."


Tina Wed Apr 4 23:29:06 PDT 2001

Oh yes, the forbidden hugs. My niece is at that point, and has taken to giving very soft hugs. I hope she outgrows it once she's comfortable with herself.

At jiu-jitsu, I almost always work with guys. They border on hilarious as they do their best not to notice, bump or squish my female attributes. It usually takes several sessions before a guy believes that it's 'okay' to hold me the same way they hold the other guys. I tell them that I don't break, and they look at me as if I've lost my mind.

Thanks, Mark. I'll attach it to an e-mail and send it on, and I'll include a brief synopsis (sp?) of the first segment so you know what's gone on earlier.

Jerry, pass on my best to your wife, and I hope the surgery brings the relief she deserves.

Oh, while I'm here, is there a topic for shortie night? Or is there a rest break this week?

Must go to sleep before eyes.... close zzzzz

Christi Wed Apr 4 22:54:06 PDT 2001

You've gotta like a girl who will play hockey! Go team!

Christi eggnoggin@yahoo.com Wed Apr 4 22:51:33 PDT 2001

(I hope this makes up for the lateness.) Congrats, Jack, on a job well done. I thought your comments were lovely and I found myself wishing I'd found this place long ago.

Teekay, HEE! I was wondering why Allein was thanking me for an email I'd never sent. HUGS to you on your happy return. Your presence was missed.

I love what Jack Nicholson said about women in Witches of Eastwick. And now that I'm on the spot I can't remember exactly how it goes, but it was funny!

Heather, I assure you, I was 'on' that night. Where'd all that energy go? How do I get it back?

On men writing from a women's POV, I just read The House of Sand and Fog, and that guy must have been a woman in a former life to have written some of that stuff. Impressive. But the book was quite depressive, although it was very well written. I'm still thinking about it.

Mary, So true on the 'brilliant passage' bit!

Mark, Your poor neice! How I remember those days. Of course there are still times when I don't want to give the full frontal hug to certain guys. You know the type, the ones who hug too closely for too long, like they're getting a cheap feel out of it. I write their name in my mental notebook, and the next time the guy gets a crummy, wimpy side-hug.

Howard, LOVE THE HANDLES! And you know what? You look happier with them!

HI to everyone, newbies and oldies alike and sorry I missed so many of you.


Viv Wed Apr 4 22:26:13 PDT 2001

I agree with you, little boys and little girls are wired differently from birth. Another thing that adds to the difficulty of characterization, they share a traits as they socialize.

My daughter came home from her first day of group play. I'd brought her to "play group." My husband wondered what she learned at "play group" over lunch while she calmly ate some toast in her high chair. She munched while we talked. I replied that they'd played, eaten snack and it didn't look like the kids learned anything much at all.

My daughter turned her toast thoughtfully over in her hand, pointed it straight at her father and said, "Bang! You dead!"

She'd eaten her toast into the shape of a gun and made her first "kill".

There's nothing like seeing the great things kids learn when they get together for snack time! My husband looked at me and said, "Did she sit next to a boy? Talk about a loss of innocence!"

He was right. She sat between two little boys! She's still doing it. Last time my husband was in America, he watched her in an ice hockey game with her friends in the CAD lab. The boys are teaching her to play hockey. While I wasn't upset, I was a little shocked. Seems like she'd want to learn figure skating a lot more than hockey. Still, they are probably equally dangerous. The boys, my husband said, were playing carefully. They stuck the girls in positions where they wouldn't get slammed into full force. I'm glad. My daughter is only 5' tall and weighs about 95lbs. She thinks she's tough, but she's still at a disadvantage.

If anyone wants to learn more about Tajikistan, this is a fun site. I am learning something about the political sitiuation right now. It's interesting. You can download the music here too. Tajikistan seems to be a good setting for a nice mystery....
Sadiq alKorasani-Home://www.geocities.com/shaitov

Dear Allein: GOOD LUCK ON YOUR EXAMS!!! We all know what you are doing is Tough! Hang in there!

Howard: That is one neat picture! You look exactly like I thought you looked! How'd you get the picture to go in the notebook? Did you scan it? PLEASE reply and tell me how! I need to know more things I can do with the computer. Did you use one of those camera attachments for teleconference?

Jerry Wed Apr 4 20:47:17 PDT 2001

Greetings all. I have taken a short break from the notebook, only a day, but I did miss reading you all. Again I was supposed to take the long trek down to the Black Hills to see my Dr. Again, the weather did not cooperate. We got another 2 inches of snow, and more to come according to the weatherman. This time I had no horse to give in tribute to Oden, this time I cancled my appointment. It was just routine anyhow. We did get some good news from my wife's Dr., They found the problem with her knee, and will be doing surgery on it very soon. We are very happy about that, since she has been bothered with it now for nearly two years.

I have never tried to write from the female POV, well I guess I did but gave up on it, when I was in college. I started my first attempt at the Great American Novel, and was telling it from the POV of a small girl, who lived back in the very early 20't century. Those who saw my work loved it, but I had more on my mind than writing at the time, such as keeping my grades up, so I gave it up for later, and later never came. I should look around I think I still have those first couple of chapters around somewhere on a floppy disk, maybe I will resurrect that one and get on with it.

Write ON!


howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Wed Apr 4 20:37:36 PDT 2001

TEEKAY! You're certainly a sight! For sore eyes! I meant what I said! :-)
Just for you: it's back! (gotta try this)

Apologies to all if this blows up.

Come to think of it, apologies even if it makes it! :-)

Mark mlenihan@stny.rr.com Wed Apr 4 19:49:24 PDT 2001

TINA -- send that manuscript to me.

MARY -- I like that observation about kids and school books also. I never thought much about the way boys carry theirs, but the girls seemed divided into two camps when they carry the books out front. Both groups are perhaps self-conscious. One bunch seems to hide their breasts and the other bunch seems to lift and emphasize them.

The first group always seemed clearly more numerous, and perhaps younger.

My niece has begun to develop breasts. She won't hug me now. Everything she does is made awkward by the new growth. A hug is now given standing side-by-side. She may be more uncomfortable because she has no father to hug, thus no close male (physically and emotionally) to practice on, get over it with .. I'm a 4-hour drive away and only get there about 4 times a year.

Teekay Wed Apr 4 19:27:13 PDT 2001

TINA: On the bright side, she got copies from her friends, but what she was really disappointed about was that she had her film full of photos of her and 'the guy she's going to marry'. Well, at least she thought she did.

That's one of the reasons I would never want to be a professional photographer. Can you imagine: "well, geez, I'm really sorry Mr. and Mrs. Smith, but when I was photographing your weddiing I could've sworn there was film in the camera."
Can't imagine that going down to well. :-)

Tina Wed Apr 4 19:15:05 PDT 2001

Teekay, I feel for your daughter! Awhile back, my whole family did a 'picture afternoon' where we all got dressed nicely and took pictures of everyone. I pulled the same oops as your daughter. I hope her school mates pics turn out!

Tina Wed Apr 4 19:11:38 PDT 2001

Hello everyone!

Heather, just got the book today! Can't wait.

Teekay, great to see you here again! I wish I could plant a 'winter garden'. Too cold. Flowers are more enjoyable, but nothing beats fresh, just off the vine peas or perfectly ripe cherry tomatoes, or freshly dug potatoes. I miss my veggie garden! :-(

Just got my hair cut. Short. Really, really short. The kind of short where people don't recognise me. I love their expression when they have to do a double take! Except that now my neck is cold.

I have the second section of my story to the point where it could really benefit from some solid critique. Any takers? It's only about 50 pages this time. Anyone? anyone? (anyone?)

Here and gone again.

Teekay Wed Apr 4 19:05:52 PDT 2001

RHODA: Hi there :-) I posted a copuple of days ago, but somehow ALLEINS name was at the top of the post :-, but yes, I had been away for a week or so. Real life was intrudiing and I found it hard to get to the computer.

Well winter is creeping up here. Soon we'll be lighting the fire and drawing the blinds around 5 o'clock.
We don't get very severe winters here. Sometimes we get snow, and it's a real excitement when we do. I love autumn. The days are gorgeous. The nights are cold so that you can snuggle up under the covers.
I think there is something about every season that I love.

Well, I think I' must be making up for lost time. Sorry about all these posts.

Teekay Wed Apr 4 18:58:47 PDT 2001

MARY: Made snickerdoodles yesterday. Delicious! I was a bit thrown by the 'shortening' though, but finally worked out that it was butter. Also, it said to add salt, but there was no mention of salt in the ingredients list so I just added a pinch. Must've been right, coz the biscuits turned out.

Does anybody watch 'heartbeat'?? I've just discovered it and I adore it! Monday - Thursday from 2 - 3 finds me curled on the lounge in front of the TV, my eyes glued to the screen.

My daughter went to watch a football match in Sydney with selected students from her school. They got to meet all the famous players and pose with them for photos. You can imagine her disappointment when she got home to find there was no film in her camera.

Rhoda rfort@familynet.net Wed Apr 4 18:58:14 PDT 2001

Today summer has arrived in all its glory (or fury) to Oklahoma. Spring was beautiful, all 3 days of it. Now we have highs in the mid 80's and lows in the mid 60's. It is time for air-conditioning and shorts. Oh, happy day!


Rhoda Wed Apr 4 18:52:31 PDT 2001


Where have you been hiding? Glad to see you here again.


Teekay Wed Apr 4 18:35:17 PDT 2001

JACK: The last archives are till the 19th of March. Do you have any idea what happened to those between then and the 31st???

Teekay Wed Apr 4 18:31:20 PDT 2001

Back again.

Caught up on the posts and had a ponder about the male/ female POV thing and I figure it's just a matter of stepping outside of your hormones.
As writers I guess we take on the state of the soul. We free ourselves from those inhibiting hormones and just be.
As souls we can posses our characters. We can see from their eyes and feel from their hearts.
This could just be me being insane again.

LITTER: My Mum swears by a whole lemon soaked in methylated spirits for 2 weeks and then rub the fluid on the affected areas.

MARY: Have you done anything to that door yet?? I've been meaning to ask you that for ages.

HOWARD: I've decided I'm never planting vegies again. They're boring. I've been madly planting winter flowers in the garden. It's looking really good. Can't wait till the sweet peas come up, I just adore the smell of sweet peas.
Ant's old enough now to leave the things I plant in the garden.
Haven't come across moonflowers yet, but I got a gardening book from the library so I'll see if they're mentioned there. I love jonquils. i wonder if they're moonflowers. Someone once told me that jonquils made them think of cemetaries. It spoilt it for me a little.

About my $11:00 fine. Some sweet person cancelled it for me. Isn't that nice. It was quite horrible being without my library card. Like a little bit of my freedom had been taken away.

My writing has been practically non existant at the moment. i've started this piece which, when the mood strikes again I will continue on with.
It's times like this where I think that I'm not a writer at all, but then, when the time is write I write non stop and pour out heaps of short stories.
I guess you guys are right. Those lulls are recovery periods. I don't flog myself over them now. Not like I used to.

Still haven't cleaned the soot out of the bath. Guess I'd better get a move on.

Teekay Wed Apr 4 17:27:28 PDT 2001

Hi All,

ALLEIN: How on earth did your name get on the title of my last post???
Guess something went haywire when you were trying to put those pictures in.
There was another time I posted something and then when I came back it was GONE and JACKS post was there instead?!?!?!

DEBRA: Ah, now I see why you thought it was ALEIN who was thanking you for the book.

Nothing much happening here. The gas man came and fixed the water heater so I've gotta go and clean all the soot up. It's so messy and it seems the more you try to clean it - the more it spreads.
Also there's a pooey nappy awaiting my attention.
My day is just sooooo full.
Will catch up on the posts later.

Me Wed Apr 4 14:56:54 PDT 2001


Heather Wed Apr 4 14:55:51 PDT 2001

MARY! Just read your latest post! (It wasn't there last time I looked). WHAT A GUTBUSTER! I laughed until tears were hitting the keys.... It's true. And unconscious, probably, but I really have seen kids walking by doing just that.
Our behavoirs are probably such a mish mash of learned, environmental, racial momories, and inherited (genetic) things that there might never be a cut and dried case with which to try and prove anything. But it is definately a field in which I enjoy spending some mental playtime!

Mark, loved your post too. Food isn't always first on the list. Unless the top item is 'melon'. (tee hee)


Heather Wed Apr 4 14:55:38 PDT 2001

MARY! Just read your latest post! (It wasn't there last time I looked). WHAT A GUTBUSTER! I laughed until tears were hitting the keys.... It's true. And unconscious, probably, but I really have seen kids walking by doing just that.
Our behavoirs are probably such a mish mash of innate, learned, environmental, racial momories, and inherited (genetic) things that there might never be a cut and dried case with which to try and prove anything. But it is definate

Heather Wed Apr 4 14:46:13 PDT 2001

I liked all the comments about writing from male or female pov. Lots of thought provoking things.
I have definately noticed that people in general will notice things that they value. Generally, (and I mean generally) women tend to put higher value on looks than men do - perhaps that's due to the investment in makeup and hair products. You have to keep a close eye on your money, to make sure it's working hard! I analyze (and agonize over) the particulars in characterizing the main males in a story, but I fret over so many of the details for either sex, it likely evens out. There are so many variables and so many quirks, and shit, so many characters, period!
But I have worried that I've overdone some machismo once or twice, or maybe played up the sensitivity of another character too much. But I won't spare the details just to be politically correct. I'm trying to tell a story here!

Catch you on the next page,

Mary Wed Apr 4 14:34:09 PDT 2001

Taylor: I hope you are the person who asked about the "brilliance" thing. Yes, I have thought that certain passages I have written were masterpieces and generally, if I feel that way, I am sure to throw it away. They are over-written, over-thought, over-done and under par. Not to say that you shouldn't like what you write. If you don't like it, probably nobody else will either. But if you put that little piece of genius that you wrote in your file cabinet for a while and come back to it in three weeks, I can practically guarantee that you will say to yourself, "What the hell was I thinking?"

LITTER: On the instinct based male/female behaviors. Watch the way high school students carry their textbooks. Girls carry them nestled in the crook of their elbow like a baby. Boys carry them low against their hip, swinging in their hand.

That's it for now. C-ya

Hi Jerry.

Mary Lou evans_hagen2@prodigy.net Wed Apr 4 11:39:05 PDT 2001

I've been having trouble getting posted. I'm sure it's the computer!

Wanted to put in my two cents worth re P.O.V. I have written four novels, three of them mostly from the female P.O.V. The fourth and one that is going to be published is from the male point of view. I didn't find the choice to be all that difficult although I did do a lot of brain storming to build the male character. I will admit I was a lot more careful of his actions, reactions, dialogue, etc. Rosemary, who has read all of my work, says I do a better job with the male P.O.V. I really don't know.

A lot of what has been said runs true to form. In the end, I think the writer has to use his/her gut instinct. That is my best tool although I do ponder a lot before making a decision.

Mary Lou

Mark Wed Apr 4 06:58:51 PDT 2001

JACK -- An April birthday! An Aries! Intellectually motivated, hard headed, tenacious. Congratulations from another Aries. And gratitude, too.

Litter litterali@btinternet.com Wed Apr 4 03:07:18 PDT 2001

Hi All!

JACK -- Happy Notebook Birthday! It makes me wonder, though, have we all been part of a five year long April Fool (or 'April Fish' if you're French) joke?

Having a really crap time with my Rheumatoid Arthritis at the moment. Not the best thing to have if you are a writer but probably not the worst either… Been reading the Notebook semi-regularly but I'm limited to when/how much I can write until it eases off a bit more. (One of the girls asked what the problem was with my hands -- see above)

I've been following the male/female perspective and traits debate and it occurs to me that some of the ability to notice/not notice things goes a little deeper than mere mental abilities or social learning. In general I agree with the observations about observation except that the debate doesn't go far enough. E.g. Most of the things males are renowned for failing to notice are among the things that most males don't attach too much importance to -- interior décor, hair, clothes, etc.. But, how many guys out there have heard a worrying sound such as an variation in engine noise when their female partners or family have not? Different sort of observational skill in an area of seeming importance to males but less so to females.

Also, how many of you guys out there, who are into hunting or field sports, can sense, hear or feel the sort of differences associated with game or danger when their female partner or family members cannot? I think this goes deeper than conditioning (although that is also both important and necessary). I think it harks back to genetic memory. I know, from my wife's 2 pregnancies, of the strong 'nest-building' instincts that pregnant and post-pregnant women have. (I think that the mothers on the list will know this not a 'sexist' remark --It's certainly not meant to be.) Men, on the other hand can be very adept at those aspects of 'awareness' associated with the hunting and ranging aspects of life. From my own experience, women normally have to acquire (and normally can do, but not always) these primeval 'male' traits.

As has been said, male and female brains (according to a pretty fair amount of research) are wired up differently and, I believe, that is more down to evolution and genetics than anything else.

Hands getting sore again, catch you all later. Welcome to all those new, newish, or who have just come out of the closet…


taylor Wed Apr 4 00:12:51 PDT 2001

i had another thought, maybe the POV depends on the personality of the character not the sex.

And also dont you love those times when you can look over something you just wrote and say to yourself that that passage was brilliance?
Or great piece of writing?
It happened to me last night during a small scene between the Bad girl and her former lover...
But for the moment I think I'll put the romance story on hold for awhile
It just doesnt seem like the right time for it

Mark Tue Apr 3 20:26:52 PDT 2001

MALE-FEMALE STUFF :: We get here over and over. It's been said, "The battle of the sexes will never be won. There's too much fraternization with the enemy."

Women are better at multitasking. My wife is fond of boasting that she can go to the bathroom and talk on the phone (now there's an odd coincidence of skills).

Men are more single-minded. I like the joke that when a man is lost and concentrating on street signs, he turns down the radio (can't do both).

Today at work a woman xeroxed two pages of info on how to please people. The page on pleasing women was full. The one on pleasing men had two lines

I remarked that those were in the wrong order. One multitasker got it, another brought me a page of jokes about getting old. I didn't get them.
Allein peachick2000@hotmail.com http://members.fortunecity.com/peachick2000 Tue Apr 3 19:55:36 PDT 2001

Viv - It's nothing - I just picked up some HTML on the Internet.
I never got an e-mail from Yoko. Maybe she could write to me at: Lunika@aol.com. I've been getting complaints that messages have been lost or not getting to my hotmail accounts. Other friends on Hotmail have said the same thing.
Maybe I'll write to her - but after finals.
*big yawn* I'm tired.

Debra Tue Apr 3 19:08:53 PDT 2001


I know just what you mean. You can't do anything to change it, but you can get something out of it. I could write another hand book on this one. If you do the bills, like me, then you can stretch a dollor like no one's business. Well sometimes there is a little extra left over for stuff he thinks we don't need. Well he would think that if I asked him for it. All I do is have it deliverd,yes delivered and get rid of the packing materials and he never sees it. I mean never. Sometimes he even sits in it and picks it up and what not but he doesn't even know it's new. I had a nnew chair delivered and he didn't realize it was new until he had already found it nice to have. I win. Once I had a fruti bowl delivered from a catalog and the first day he had to save it from one of the kids. I head him come in from work and say, "put that fruit bowl down." I thought I was busted. But when he came into the kitchen he just kissed me and wanted to know what he smelled cooking. So you see it has a purpose. Show me your curtains. I'll give you what you need. Not only that, honey bun, you clean up the oil stains in the garage? WOW!

You are a saint. I get mad sometimes if he leaves the empty ice tray on the counter. After all he is the one who emptied it. There are times when I just put it in the cuboard where we keep the containers. Then when he goes for ice and wants to know what I did with the tray I say, "oh it's right here." and pull it out of the cuboard. I drink water most of the time, warm. Lately I have been filling them. He worked really hard keeping our basement free from the waves of water flowing in. I was impressed.


I'm glad you would have noticed that. I really am. Maybe the fact that you want to write from a women's perspective means that you already can.


You really should have been there. It was the cutest thing. I know if his mother had stopped him from going after that ball he would have been ruined. She probably knew it too. She gave him a few minutes and then......


Rhoda Tue Apr 3 14:23:22 PDT 2001


Do not believe that feminist stuff you learn in school. It sounds nice but has not place in reality. I have three children, two boys and a girl and I had similar experiences to Ben. My two boys are individuals and are not much like one another, but there is a universe of difference between both of them and my girl.

Science now has discovered that the brains of the sexes are wired differently (I recently read an article about that very thing in the Romance Writers of America newsletter). However I do believe that there are subtle variations. Men can have traits commonly believed to be feminine, and women, vice versa. But environment, while important, does not determine everything.

Social engineering has run up into several brick walls of late because it encourages everyone to run counter to what they are. The United States military has had terrible problems in the past several years because of this thinking that men and women are essentially the same. There have been so many philosophies and governmental systems and movements and political correctness efforts that are determined to not only abolish gender differences, but also aggressive, criminal, bigoted and bad behavior. All I can say to them is "Good Luck."


SusanS susanshock@yahoo.com Tue Apr 3 14:06:36 PDT 2001

I've written both male and female characters and I don't really find it all that different. I usually have a male and a female lead who are romantically involved and to me their motivations and desires aren't that complex or different. I also often loosely base my male characters on men I know, with some differences of course, so that gives me a bit of a guide. I just don't find it all that difficult. But maybe I'm not that good at character development . . . I don't know. I write science fiction, fantasy, and mysteries which tend to be very heavy on action and conflict, so maybe that's why it isn't so difficult. I tend to be more plot oriented I confess. Is that bad?

Ben W Tue Apr 3 13:33:08 PDT 2001

Mary: You're absolutely right about guys not noticing things like drapes and stuff. My wife has short hair, and it being jet black, she likes to hi-lite it sometimes. She's been doing it for years. Sometimes I don't notice that she had it cut that day--I mean, I notice it, but it takes a while. I try to make an effort to remember if she went to get it done, and since my best friend's a hair dresser, I usually end up going with her and having a few Coronas while she gets it done--it's nice to be able to go to the shop and read the magazines he has: British G.Q. Maxim, Stuff--and then I usually end up getting something done to mine. She says she wants me to colour it becuase the grey makes her look old. Apparently, I don't even look at myself the way she looks at me. Go figure.

Richard: Boys are so different from girls right from the get-go. I have a boy and a girl. The boy came first. Wifey said she didn't want him playing with toy guns and all that other nonsense girls say boys shouldn't do--so he made his own weapons from his other toys, Leggo and sticks. She finally gave up. I just sat back and laughed, because I know, boys will be boys. When the girl came, it was a world of difference. Dolls and dress up. Considerate, polite, emotional--Daddy's little girl, just like he's Mom's boy. He goes to her if he has any questions about sex. In fact, he's about your age. He asked her what it was like to have an orgasm once. She was flustered and said: Shouldn't you be asking your father this? He said, Dad over explains. She said, Oh, well, I don't know about men, but sometimes, I just want to relax after and have a cigarette. We're a pretty open family as far as telling our kids about sex, but I think that's one of the best lines I've ever heard.

So right now, even as we speak, I'm printing up my story. I just wanted to go through it a little bit and see if it read as smoothly as I felt it did when I read it last night at work, and ended up changing a word here, and another one there, adding another hundred words. Finally, I told myself to stop. It's too long as is, and I'm just making it harder to sell it. But I like the female lead. She talks to herself--a lot. She also falls in love. I think she's a strong character, emotionally--even if she's a little screwed up. She's got a club foot, and withered left arm. She's an artist, but is married to an abusive fat pig of a husband whom I hated writing. I have a hard time writing that kind of character, because I didn't have that kind of a childhood. Mine was somewhat idyllic. The dysfunctionalities all came after we all married. I guess the women we picked didn't have the same kind of childhoods we did. Rapes and alcoholic parents make it hard to understand sometimes--especially when you can't relate. So, it's a load of laundry and off to the post office. The New Yorker awaits. I've had six or seven rejections from them so far, and quite right too, but I'm thinking they're getting used to seeing my name pop up, and one day they'll say, Okay, let's give him a shot at it. After them, The Gettysburg Review, The Missouri Review, Southern Humanities, and The Paris Review.
Gotta go though, the printer just screwed up--again.

Richard Tue Apr 3 12:52:43 PDT 2001

Tina: Thank you for your comments - they were definately helpful. Interesting that the Admiral gave of 'bad vibes' because he wasn't intended to. I'll look at it again once I found some good information on life aboard an aircraft carrier to incorporate into my novel.

Male/female POV:

This is definately interesting; I've written from both POVs and I can't say that I actually write much differently at all, or if I do, its subconscious. I haven't done it recently though - I'll have to give some thought to it.

It's interesting though - a lot of our actions and thought patterns are governed by what we observe, experience, and the conclusions we draw from these. While I'm positive there are certain aspects that are different between men and women, I wonder if a lot of it has to do with environment. If we grew up in a world where men were NOT expected to be macho or do the things that are generally considered 'men's stuff', would males have a different outlook? Vice versa with women? The very way we think and react to situations are built upon everything we observe and think from birth. By the time we're a lot older, opinions and biases have formed, so we're a lot less likely to change our ways.

Obviously some of it is purely chemical. Stupid testerone levels...

Mary notdotcalm@yahoo.com Tue Apr 3 11:09:43 PDT 2001

DEBRA: Bang up job on the male/female behavior pattern explanation.

I would say that I write from a male perspective 90% of the time. Main reason: They are simpler and you don't have to describe as much setting. They just plain don't notice it. If the reader is putting him/herself in the place of the protagonist and the protagonist is male, they don't have to live through two pages of flowered wallpaper, poorly chosen carpet and a slight musty odor.

Example (no offense guys..I LOVE you!) I had plain white valances on the bay windows in my dining room. I recently changed them to navy blue, thermal-backed satin drapes. It took my husband two days to say, "Something is different in here. Did you paint?" I don't even think that the words, "thermal-backed drapes" are in his vocabulary.

I wonder if it ever has crossed his mind to ponder where the oil spot in the garage goes. Does he not notice it is there to begin with? Does he assume it evaporates? I am sure he doesn't know that I use cat litter to soak it up and then scrub the floor with "Simple Green". Guys just don't notice stuff like that. (Again this is an unfair generalization, but still, that's my take on it."

Banky banky@talk21.com Tue Apr 3 10:31:12 PDT 2001

DEBRA : You make some real good points. I think that I would - actually, I know - I would notice things like the sounds of dishes. I think you're right that a lot of people wouldn't notice those kinds of things, but paying attention to things like that is one of the key ingredients to being a writer I feel. If you don't notice the little things in the world around you then how can you write about it.

Luzano canlas goodlifepub@aol.com http://goodlifepub.com Tue Apr 3 08:59:13 PDT 2001


Sometimes, I will need help from you guys.

bookseller, literary-agent, publisher

Mary Lou Hagen evans_hagen@prodigy.net Tue Apr 3 08:12:20 PDT 2001

Howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Tue Apr 3 07:38:49 PDT 2001

JACK - Congratulations and happy anniversary! And let me add my thanks with those who posted before me. We really appreciate this place!

RICHARD -- I read it! Good start!

Not much time here. My connection at home is down, just a slowly blinking "cable" light on the modem, so no Email or internet connection there. Can't spend too much time on here from work, so I've gotta get the RR service to fix this soon!


Viv Tue Apr 3 06:16:03 PDT 2001

Allein: I loved that cartoon! How'd you do that???!!! I really want to get as good on the computer as you are!

Did you get a message from Yoko Namba? She seems quite nice. She said she wrote. I think she's going to the States in two weeks. I don't know where! She is writing me using her Docomo telephone because I think her job ended. She can only type 500 words at a time. Maybe if you have time you can type using your kanjii program! I hope this helps you learn even faster, and maybe gives you a good contact in Japan. Don't be too shy because I think she's just a nice person. It's amazing how you meet friends!

Debra, I need to go sit in the cry room again! Your description of male behavior there was wonderful. I had to laugh. Kids make church fun....and frustrating. Mothers who manage a weekly Sunday battle are specially blessed. Still, I miss the days when my little girl would massage my earlobe during the sermon.

Heather & Ben, what fun. I'm back thinking more about characterization. I hadn't taken that into consideration too much. I was just trying to keep the story going forward. Seems like there is an awful lot of head patting, stomach rubbing actions to get a short story written. Sometimes they write themselves, but most of mine START themselves but founder in the middle. I think I'll go for stronger characterization because that might be the key. Especially if I concentrate on a specific characteristic. Neat ideas you guys!

Back on my head! (Hey speaking of that...I did stand on my head today! My daughter challenged me to try it, and we spent quite a while lined up on the wall...feet up in the air. Haven't seen the world like that for a long time. If you haven't done this in a long time, try it out. It makes you laugh.)


Wil Jackson Lan_61@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/lan_61/ Tue Apr 3 05:57:15 PDT 2001


Thanks for reading! You can post it in the crit area, or you can e-mail me. Or even both if you want.


taylor Tue Apr 3 02:41:34 PDT 2001

one of my main characters is a kind of guy that needs to have everything in perfect order. including his hair
Like if he's sick, he has to make sure he doesnt look like it

reading this message again makes me think, im thinking of my characters as having real personality
I wander if thats good or not

taylor Tue Apr 3 02:36:44 PDT 2001

I think I got a good female lead in my novel, but shes more masculine than feminine

Ben W Tue Apr 3 02:30:35 PDT 2001

GIRLS:I don't want to confuse you into thinking that I'm lumping everyone into one of two piles. Not so. What I meant to say was, that giving a personality a trait such as vanity or greed was a good start for any character. That doesn't mean the person exhibiting those traits is specifically m/f, because, as Heather said, we all have those traits. But for me, personally, to write from a Female p.o.v., I like to give the person something I can relate to, and then give them feminime qualities--like brushing her hair back, doing her nails, that sort of stuff--while the universal characteristics of greed et al, simply makes it easier to explain the character in my own mind. I don't think I come up with as good females characters as I'd like to--in that their inner thoughts aren't as revealing as I would like them to be--(maybe I should just try Butch girls? he-he)--but they're passable.

I'm blessed with a sensitive, intelligent, and caring wife, who has more depth to her than any character I could hope to invent; and I have a daughter who seems to be following her mother along the same lines. On the other side of the spectrum, I have a sister who is a class-one bitch, who seems to tip the other end of the scale quite nicely. It makes life interesting to have these sort of women in it, but it makes writing a lot more interesting to use them as a sort of guideline. I'm sure we all know the same type of people. I base a lot of my male characters on men that I work with, and I think one of the secrets to writing good characters, male or female, is the old adage of SHOW ME, DON'T TELL ME, which is why I have them brushing their hair, doing their nails, applying make-up in front of every mirror they see--because that shows a part of the vanity I want to convey--but I also know men who are just as vain.

Am I making any sense at all, or am I just rambling (which is one of my little traits)? I agree with a lot of what Debra said--like, totally man--and realize we all approach writing from different angles, and end up in the same place: Published (hopefully). I think we approach it this way because writing is a hit and miss sort of endeavor. I don't know of any other activity, aside from acting I guess, where someone would sit down and seriously think of how he can get into a character's head and make that person believable to someone else. When I try to explain it to some of the guys at work, that I'm writing something from a female p.o.v., they ask me if I really am gay--because my name's Ben, they gave me the nick-name of Ben-Gay (that's a medicated ointment for sore muscles out here for those of you out of country.) But that's the mentality I deal with. I can just imagine the reaction I'd get if I told them I really was writing a story about a gay man. But that's a point of view I haven't tried...yet.

I hope I clarified myself as far as this little discussion I started, but I was hoping a few more people would have expressed their opinions. Like Randall--there's an opinion I would have liked to hear--Litter, Jerry, Ramone, Hop...come on guys. Haven't you ever written a story with a strong female lead in it? And if you haven't, why not?

taylor Mon Apr 2 23:25:43 PDT 2001

thanks for your help people, I want to create really strong, 3d characters, but just the female character pov thing is a challenge
sorry a bit carried away there

Tina Mon Apr 2 22:46:14 PDT 2001

Richard, I posted my thoughts for you in the workbook. :-)

Wil, I just read your post as well. I'll think about it for awhile and then give you my thoughts in the crit section, or e-mail them directly if you prefer. I'm intrigued by the 'Blessing'.

Here and gone again...

Tina Mon Apr 2 21:15:10 PDT 2001

Hello everyone, and Happy Belated Birthday Notebook!

Think I've got the blues that were going around. Just seems like there's too much to do lately. Can't get ahead of it all. Worse, I'm bored silly at work these days, and I hate being bored.

Richard, I did read your intro on the weekend, but haven't got back there to leave my thoughts. (See above paragraph) The main thought I had at the time was that I needs to be longer before I can give a fair response.

Hello Arik! It's great to see your name! Hope all is well.

Welcome LJP and Leslie!

Jack, I'm so jealous! I can't wait to get my hands around the new Pern book! How was it?... No don't tell me... Ahgg! The anticipation!

Re: POV... three of my four main characters are male. My husband and his best friend screen the story for 'male personality' mistakes. Sometimes I'm way off, sometimes bang on. I agree with you Debra; women pay more attention to those things. I read once that most little girls instinctively absorb and understand emotions, while most little boys have to be taught. Don't know if it's true, but it made sense to me!

I've started a new collection. I'm tacking up pictures of all the writers I admire, starting with JK Rowling and Anne McCaffery. Maybe under the watchful eyes of successful writers I'll gain more confidence.

Gotta go do dishes. See y'all!

(Just realised that I feel better after this visit to the notebook. Thank you Jack!)

Wil Jackson Lan_61@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/lan_61/ Mon Apr 2 21:14:16 PDT 2001

Well, as you no doubt have noticed...I am new here at the Notebook. I have always been a devoted book reader, and enjoy it very much.

I decided to try my hand at writing a short prologue to a "Fantasy" type story to see if I could do it. I have posted this in the workbook.

Basicly I am a new, just starting out author/writer. I have never seriously tried this kind of stuff before. So I am here to have what I have posted gone over.

What I am concerned with is opinions. With me being new to this I'm still trying to find out if I have what it takes to be a writer. Another thing I need however is tips on punctuation (comma's, semicolans, etc.).

I would also welcome anything else that you people offer in the way of advice. As I said I am new and want to make myself better.

Thanks for your help!

Debra Mon Apr 2 20:56:08 PDT 2001


One more thing, my mom just gave me her dishes that she had had forever. She finally got a new set after 30 years of having the same one. I washed them in the dishwasher and started to put them away. Within seconds I noticed the familiar clanking that I had only previously heard at my moms. Did you notice that each set of dishes is different in some small way? Each set all has its own unique clanking sound. Women and the blind know this. Now I was hearing it at my house. I felt warm and happy inside hearing that sound, and knowing I would hear it for a long time to come.

Would that occur to you? It occured to me and I'm sure it makes perfect sense to every women here. You need stuff like that. Can you produce? That's the question.


Debra Mon Apr 2 20:41:38 PDT 2001


Well let's start with the fact that women are more complicated then men. I don't mean it in a bad way. Men are visual. They like to look at beautiful women and cars. They like to use their bodies in physical way, like sports and building things.

I saw a little boy in church last week. We sit in the cry room every week. He was behaving himself perfectly, as were my girls. One little boy not with him or us was younger and had a toy ball. At one point the ball slipped out of his hands and rolled right inbetween his feet. I knew what would happen next. His eyes lit up like a Christmas tree and he couldn't stop himself. He hopped off his chair and chased after the ball. The boy that lost it was right behind him. They both ran together for a short time and smiled at each other like they had known each other for years. Finally realizing him mother was on her way to get him, the older boy picked up the ball and through it to its owner and he smiled so hard he almost couldn't see.

My girls just sat and watched. They took it all in. See they are learning already. The two boys didn't even see my girls. They won't see my girls for more than a decade and my girls will already have banked years of info on them.

Is that a start?


Mary Lou evans_hagen2 Mon Apr 2 19:37:43 PDT 2001

Banky banky@talk21.com Mon Apr 2 19:29:14 PDT 2001

DEBRA: I'm glad you mean it in a good way and I guess your talking about the women writing men thing.

I don't know why it should be this way but it is. I can't think of the last thing I read that was written by a man from a female perspective. I guess it just ain't the done thing. Then thinking about women writing about men... the first that pops into my head would be Anne Rice.

So whats the deal? How come it's so hard to write from the female point of view?

Jerry Mon Apr 2 19:08:12 PDT 2001

HAPPY BIRTHDAY NOTEBOOK- - You make our lives so much fuller (is that a word?) for your existance


Allein peachick2000@hotmail.com http://members.fortunecity.com/peachick2000 Mon Apr 2 18:40:52 PDT 2001

Typed in the wrong thing. Not the server's fault - operator error.


Allein peachick2000@hotmail.com http://members.fortunecity.com/peachick2000 Mon Apr 2 18:39:31 PDT 2001


I believe I've been here 4 out of those 5 years. It's been wonderful - I've met many friends and have been able to express myself openly and be taken seriously rather than turned away because of my youth. To Jack - thank you for these wonderful years - without you there would be no notebook.

*raising glass of grape juice in hand* To the notebook!

Rhoda - I don't know if Angelfire has something against that or if they're just stupid. Probably a little of both.
Fortunecity works good though.

For instance, take this picture:

Awww...what a cute puppy. I don't look so cute but Pepper is adorable.
A dog's mouth is 50 times cleaner than a humans.
Still don't know why they have dog breath.

Debra Mon Apr 2 18:05:43 PDT 2001


I means this in a good way. I think you're right!


Banky banky@talk21.com Mon Apr 2 17:55:30 PDT 2001

Good God, what am I doing? I had two hours sleep last night and now I've spent a huge chunk of my night doing stuff again instead of sleeping and I'm at work in four hours. I must be insane. Ah well, at least if I collapse then maybe they'll let me come back home.

Writing from the female perspective. It's something that I've tried once or twice but nothing that I've really focused on. I'm probably wrong about this but I think that it would be a lot easier for a woman to write from a male perspective than it is the other way around. Like I say, i'm probably wrong.

Jack Beslanwitch Mon Apr 2 16:32:11 PDT 2001

Some quick reflections on all your kinds words and on the Notebook for I run up stairs and curl under the covers and cherish my brand new Skies of Pern by Anne McCaffree that just got released to B.Dalton's two and a half hours ago. When I began the Notebook, it was really without any clear vision of what it was going to become except that I liked the idea of conversational forum for talking about the writing life and what goes into making a writer, rather than specifically the technical aspects of the writing itself. I did not have the Workbook in mind. I did not nor could have imagined some of the personas that sprung up here, (Thank you Americo er Jon er well, you get the idea). Most, especially, I could imagine the many surprises and the friendships that have grown out of this place. Philip McClaren comes to mind. Spending a week with him in Australia would not have happened except for the relationship built up here. I look forward to meeting some of you at my house in May and have the moments to further expand the friendships found here.

Community is often times an overused word. But, in a very real sense that is what has grown here. It has grown organically, with determination, but with many voices and personalities arriving, interacting and making the mark. We have had our occasional flame wars, hard words, misunderstandings. But more often we have had our insights, our whimsies, our laughters and our surprises. Always, the surprises. As the potential choices available to us via the internet grow, this place will grow with them. But, whatever transpires technically over the next five years, the most important part will be the people visiting here. As it always should be when you are talking about a community. Take care and off to read about Pern.

Leslie ljparm@home.com Mon Apr 2 14:00:39 PDT 2001

--addendum to last message (oops)
YIKES.....my message just printed and I didn't want it to. You see I just got that new keyboard, you know, the one that looks like the Rocky MTS.( Yeah, yeah, always making excuses.)I zigged instead of zagged and then I zigged again. To END my comment......if it matters to anyone, it's a classic in the field of psycholinguistics, counseling, family relations work, and the like. If you have "his and her" towels in the bath, take a look at it. It could help a writer a great deal, especially with dialogue.

Leslie but I'd like to change it to Mud ljparm@home.com Mon Apr 2 14:00:01 PDT 2001

--addendum to last message (oops)
YIKES.....my message just printed and I didn't want it to. You see I just got that new keyboard, you know, the one that looks like the Rocky MTS.( Yeah, yeah, always making excuses.)I zigged instead of zagged and then I zigged again. To END my comment......if it matters to anyone, it's a classic in the field of psycholinguistics, counseling, family relations work, and the like. If you

Heather Mon Apr 2 13:49:50 PDT 2001

yes, Richard! I will!

P.S. I think that's neat that your Mum brought back the very issue my stuff was in...

Leslie ljparm@home.com Mon Apr 2 13:45:15 PDT 2001

In response to Taylor's dilemma (probs. w/ Fem. char.) There's a bestseller psycholinguistic book by Deborah Tannen: You Just Don't Understand. It's devoted to the underlying meanings in the ways that M and F "mis-speak."
It's considered a clSSIC

Heather Mon Apr 2 13:43:15 PDT 2001

Sasquatch, a beautiful poem once again!

Ben, I agree that it is a challenge to write from the pov of the opposite sex. Either way - a man writing something in a woman's perspective, or a woman writing in a man's; either will be difficult at times because we haven't experienced what it is like to be that sex. But I don't think we can lump men and women into two really separate piles. There are many feelings and desires and hopes, dreams, etc., that are more universal than characteristic of a particular sex, or sexual orientation, for that matter. Anyone can be greedy, selfish, lustful, bizarre, thoughtless, or filled with remorseful agony. Anyone can be blown away by the force of love, the taciturn quality of intimacy, the great well-spring of joy, the suddenness of growing up and old, and even wise. Now, each character will, of course, interpret these emotions/experiences differently. Each characters' views and attitudes will be different, or at least appear so because they are expressed in alternate ways. That doesn't always revolve around a person's sex. Take into consideration their age, backround, friends, situation and mental health!

My advice on writing from a viewpoint that is obviously hard to 'get into'? Utilize the universal first. Have the character deal with something we've all had to do ourselves.
Go from there. Everyone has quirks, remember.

Really get to know the character yourself first before you assume what he or she will do. Dig into your character's mind before you set your sights on their heart, soul, and outward expressions and gestures. When you get to know your character (are they based on a real person?) then you should find that over time, you will find what you have written to be more and more accurate. And also, emotionally and intelectually stimulating. (Pardon any misspellings!)

I can't tell you if I'm some sudden expert on the topic of writing from the viewpoint of the opposite sex, but I have written male characters, and I do find that I'm getting better at it...

Maybe not much better, but better still.

But I'm not going to the closet to quote my oldest known work in order to prove it!

Live Long and Process (Many Words)



Richard Mon Apr 2 13:26:43 PDT 2001

*gets down on his knees and begs*

Can someone PLEASE look at the opening scene for my new novel in the Workbook...

Rhoda Mon Apr 2 13:17:58 PDT 2001


Is it your experience also that posting pictures from Angelfire sites does not work? I have tried and all I get is the logo. Do they have some sort of mechanism to prevent that sort of stuff, or was I not doing the HTML right?

Happy 5th Birthday, Notebook!

Since I first signed on, this Notebook and the friends I have made here have been a significant source of support, friendship, and entertainment. Occassionally I have shed tears over some of our scuffles. I have laughed at the blonde jokes and Allein's funnies. I have agonized over your struggles, and they have become as real as my own at times. What would I ever do without the Notebook?


I cannot thank you enough for the Notebook. It just would not be what it is without your kindness, cool-headedness and your great heart. I am on the edge of my seat waiting eagerly to see what unfolds in the next five years.


sasquatch Mon Apr 2 13:03:18 PDT 2001

jack person i sasquatch do truly thank you for this place where even i am welcome. i sasquatch have written small poem for you.

words falling as seeds
scattered on these blank pages
grow into beauty

thank you. i must go

Ben W Mon Apr 2 12:12:00 PDT 2001

Afternoon shift, and the house is all mine! I love it. I can write as much as I want. I want to print my story up and try to send it out today. I have a place in mind called, apropriately, THE LONG STORY. They take stories up to 20,000 words, but prefer 8-12,000. I'm hoping they won't mind fifteen thousand.

Rachel: I hate it when that happens, I'd rather just do a face plant on the key board.

Taylor: Writing from the female p.o.v.? I look at it as a challenge personally. The way I like to bring a character to full life is by adding little peronality quirks. Vanity is a good one, so is greed, the seven deadly sins are great for this. As long as when you write you remember the little things--the inside voice of the character--it will all come out eventually. But a guy looks at things differently than a woman, and I don't care what people say or think about this one, because it's true. Guys want to be macho when they're with other guys, so what about women? They swear just as much as we do, and think about sex--but not with the same sense of desperate urgency I think (after all, they have what we want). But it's the sensible side you want to capture. And I believe women are miles ahead of men on this one. Like the cartoon above? Two guys. If men are sensitive, they try to hide it from each other. They will only cry if they are with someone they can trust--wife, family, lover, etc., while women, I believe, are more willing to share this side of themselves because they feel this is what makes a person more complete. And I have to agree with them on that. They call it , "getting in touch with your feminime side," we call it being a sissy...okay, maybe we don't, but you know what I mean. I'm sure there are other "men" here who can give you an idea about this. I think writing from the opposite gender p.o.v. is a great excercise. It stretches you mentally; it makes you reach for things you took for granted before. And it's not as easy as you might think. Any comments on this guys?

Mary Mon Apr 2 11:46:57 PDT 2001

Hi Americo,

You and I have certainly had our share of skirmishes over the time I have been posting here. I just wanted to say that I have always recognized that you have the Notebook's best interests in mind. Happy anniversary.

Mary Mon Apr 2 11:38:42 PDT 2001

Happy Birthday Jack!

RACHEL: I love writing with a little one in my lap. As long as they are sleeping! Hehe. Once Sebastian gets a little bigger you can turn him around so his little arms and legs curl right around your waist. I have spent many hours with my son sleeping that way. His head is a nice place to rest my chin as I click clack words onto the screen. Kills my back though because I have to push my chair so far from the keyboard and I have short little arms.


HEATHER: I would have guessed you were a 4 year Notebook survivor, at least. :-)

How long has everyone else been here?

Hi LITTER! Hope all is well with you. You have been on my mind for some reason.

Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Mon Apr 2 11:33:42 PDT 2001

Happy fifth birthday to the Notebook and thanks to Jack for a lovely page.

From his thousand and one nights holiday land, Jon also sends birthday greetings.

And so does Pussy.

Mary Lou evans_hagen2@prodigy.net Mon Apr 2 09:49:40 PDT 2001

Mary Lou evans_hagen2@prodigy.net Mon Apr 2 09:49:40 PDT 2001

Rachel Mon Apr 2 09:39:02 PDT 2001

Happy Birthday Jack!

All - This is a stretch and yawn sort of morning (got the pasty mouth thing going on - grins)! Doesn't that just make you want to rush out and get to know me better (laughter)?

My children are now on spring break. They have the month of April off. We all slept in today. Well, they all slept in. I'm not good at sleeping in. I don't really know how to do it. I'm looking forward to this time with them. It isn't often that we aren't rushing around, this month is going to be really nice.

Allien - Thanks for the poem (smiles and a hug). I can't believe that Sebastian is a month old! It has gone so fast. He is growing and growing. Do you remember when I told you that one of my baby sisters had moved to England? Well, she will be home in just two months! I can hardly wait to see her. I have missed her so much.

Hop - Yes! I love to eat babies up with a spoon!

Ben - I have fallen asleep reading and writing many times. It can be funny. I hate when I do the head loll thing. You know where your head sort of falls forward, but before you do a face plant you catch yourself and snap your head back up. It can be painful... OUCH!

Ciao, ciao, ciao for now,


Arik - Hi you!

Allein Mon Apr 2 07:27:36 PDT 2001

One more time if not - here is peachick2000@hotmail.com http://members.fortunecity.com/peachick2000 Mon Apr 2 07:25:32 PDT 2001

I hope that works.

Birthday Boy - Happy birthday!! :)

Sebastian - Here's a haiku in honor of the one month anniversary of your birth - you little cutie, you.

World - so full of stuff,
Stuff to touch, put my mouth on,
Arms still too tiny - darn!

Maybe next month Sebastian. :)

Rachel - Happy dance!! :)

Cassandra - Yep, here's where we met.


"You said it yourself - it could be possible, and it is - El Dorado!!" *hard breathing, excited*
"You drank the seawater didn't you?"
- Miguel and Tulio "The Road to El Dorado"

Leslie ljparm@home.com Mon Apr 2 07:05:43 PDT 2001

I'm new here but I'd like to say Happy Anniversary to those of you who celebrate. You all sound GREAT.


Cassandra arcane128@hotmail.com Mon Apr 2 06:42:10 PDT 2001

It's been at least a year on here for me... but I must have missed what the BJP is in one of my '*screaming* too much work' phases. If someone could clue me in I'd be much obliged.

Allein- Did we meet in this wonderful place?? I can't quite recall, I'm getting stupidier in my old age.

*yawn* It's too early over here and I don't even know why I'm not napping. I need my morning caffiene!

off to rustle up something...


BirthdayBoy Mon Apr 2 06:05:42 PDT 2001

Happy Birthday to me,

Happy Birthday to me,

Happy Birthday dear me-ee,

Happy Birthday to me.

taylor Mon Apr 2 02:51:33 PDT 2001

'Phsycotic pets' a short story idea is coming along fast as well as the romance novel...
What ways do you people here have to get into your characters, if you know what I mean
Having probs writing the female character

I just have to thank this site, since visiting this site I feel like I have been getting somewhere with my writing

taylor Mon Apr 2 02:47:27 PDT 2001

Hi you all...
i dont type alot but I write quite a bit later...
figured out how to feed the BEAST, so I can keep it quiet at night while I sleep...

i tried pulling an all nighter once, only once.
at 3am i just wrote the word distinguishing, and here's what I thought
'Its funny that distinguishing is used in description terms, and the word distinguishing has alot of I's(eyes)'
after that I decided i better goto bed

Ben W Mon Apr 2 02:13:30 PDT 2001

Rachel: It gets harder typing as the night wears on, and when you hear that noise because you've got your finger on the arrow cursor scrolling down the page, it means you've fallen asleep at the keyboard, again.

Oh yeah Kitty, I finished my short story tonight. I like it. I'll snail mail you a copy of it. But be warned: It's 15,000 words. And it's a tragedy. I don't like simple love stories, they're just drama; throw in a death or two, you get tragedy. Nothing like dysfunctionality to make the writer's world go around..he-he-he


Ben W Mon Apr 2 02:05:37 PDT 2001

Happy Birthday Jack.

I was just looking through some old archives stuff, and boy, some of the conversations were pretty deep sometimes weren't they? It's no wonder this place has endured, and survived. I think, that as long as you are there leading the way, this place will go on. People will always drop in and out, and if it is remembered for anything, it will be for the freedom of expression, the depth of thought, and the general help and information people are so willing to share with each other. (I can picture a big round table in a smoke filled room with book lined walls and a couple of the picture of the dogs playing pool--oh yeah, and a waitress.)

When I fist came here all those years ago, Britomart was just a girl with a book she had finished and was trying to sell--which she did successfully. It was neat seeing everything happening with her. Her enthusiam spread to all of us, and we were happy for her. Anyone who launches off from this site will know that they have everyone at the notebook behind them. If there are personality clashes once in a while, well, that can be expected, because families argue among themselves all the time.

But I congratulate you on a job well done, and a concept unlike any other I have ever come across. These five years went by fast for you, but imagine what the next five will be like! So take the pats on the back when we give them, and maybe we'll meet in that little bar in Seattle again one day? That would be great. Of course, we have bars up here too! And if you bring crabs along...well, Fiji-style crab is better than anything you could ever imagine.

In the words of Keeanu Reeves: Whoa!


Rachel Mon Apr 2 01:32:11 PDT 2001

Hi all - My PC will soon be back on line. Wow, a PC, it seems like I'm writing in ancient scrpit (grins). Hey, I'm also wayyyyyyyyyyyy behond blasted.

Hum, this is my first NB drunk in a very long time (grins) You can't know how long it took me to get these words in the right order....I hope (grins and merry laughter).

Okay, I'm due to write a story this evening. I had best get down to it. Gezz, nothing like a deadline, Hem HEATHER?? Not that I'm nudgeing at anything... How is tyhat novel noving along )? Write baby, write!

Speakin of babies, does anyone k now how hard it is to write with a baby in arm? With their wee little arms flailing about? They really are good at bashingkeys.

Take careall!


Rachel Mon Apr 2 00:26:51 PDT 2001

Allin - Yes! Let's sing and dance (big smiles)!


LJP ljparm@ Mon Apr 2 00:26:27 PDT 2001

I was surfin' and I just stumbled into this place. I am been looking at the writers'websites for the first time tonight. This day was devoted to downloading several software programs on my new Dell with DVD and CD-RW. Since I've discovered that I like to listen to the foreign radio stations while I work and do media work, I'm upgrading to the Altec Lansing THX Certified ADA885 Dig. spkrs. w/ sub/woof-woofs. (120 Watts) I just said that to impress the tech. heads that read this stuff. Whew!

(Remember the first calculator? I was young and it was like a miracle.)

Oh yeah....Computers...I did play a little today-- I highly recommend a silly little software program called "Kai's SuperGoo." It's great for enlarging, colorizing,distorting, morphing, and totally bashing pictures of your family and friends. I hope to get better at it, set it to music and words to make some short videos. That's fun.

On a more serious note, if anyone has already "published" any high interest/ low ability textbooks in the areas of language arts or math, I would like to be in contact wih him or her. I am also interested in making contact with anyone who has developed software that relates to a reading or a math text or done his or her own illustrations for reading texts using a computer.

Arik nesis@actcom.co.il Mon Apr 2 00:03:07 PDT 2001

he he..
PLease stop this angelfire thing....


Sun Apr 1 23:27:42 PDT 2001

Allein Sun Apr 1 23:24:23 PDT 2001


That's what I think of this damn internet - now the link won't even work!

Excuse me while I SCREAM!!!

Allein peachick2000@hotmail.com http://members.fortunecity.com/peachick2000 Sun Apr 1 23:22:16 PDT 2001

Well, Fortunecity is being retarded so I can't put the image there.
Here's the link.


Please take a look - I promise you won't be disappointed.

Allein Sun Apr 1 23:19:43 PDT 2001

That one worked and the link works. One more time.

Sun Apr 1 23:18:32 PDT 2001

Allein peachick2000@hotmail.com http://members.fortunecity.com/peachick2000 Sun Apr 1 23:17:37 PDT 2001

Let's try that picture again.

Allein peachick2000@hotmail.com http://members.fortunecity.com/peachick2000 Sun Apr 1 23:15:57 PDT 2001

RACHEL - Let me join in!! :) I'm happy too!

Found this great Easter picture for you all - enjoy!!

Sun Apr 1 22:23:00 PDT 2001

Hi All,
finally found the on switch to the computer. Went to see what I had missed out on, but seems a chunk of the archives are missing, which is good because that way I don't feel like I've missed too much :-)

Finally posted of my B. J. P competition entry. I'm glad to be done with it. I think I've just taken a bit of a sabbatical this past week or so.

DEBRA: Got the book a week ago. Have been telling myself I must turn on the computer and let you know, but I just never got around to it. Thank you soooooo much for it!!!

MARY: You are awesome. I've always known you are. :-)

CHRISTY: You are awesome too. I'm sorry, I've just been horrendously slack. You should see all my backed up emails. Sooo scary. I'll think I'll check most of them later. Checked yours already though - of course :-)

HOWARD: Ye of little words with soooo much meaning. You too my friend are awesome.

In fact you are all awesome. Though I've been away from the computer I've thought about you all daily, and have even felt a bit guilty about being away so long without saying anything.

RACHEL: I'll join in the happy dance with you. You sound glorious. :-)

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY NOTEBBOK!!!!!! I don't know how long I've been here. I know it's over a year because I remember talking about last years B. J .P competition, which BTW I didn't win.

Well that's about it folks. Must go and hunt me down some food now. Exhausting work preesing that on button. :-)

Heather Sun Apr 1 22:00:56 PDT 2001

Wow - it's hard to imagine life on the computer/internet without your friendly faces - I mean, voices. The writing life would not be the same at all.

I've been here one year and just shy of four months, but it seems I've known most of you for a Yeti's age! Sasquatch, that was to rouse you from spring's lighter slumbers. Perhaps a poem for the Notebook's glorious five years?

CHEERS! To many more years of Notebook splendour, and may our muses mine all the wits we own, always.


Mary notdotcalm@yahoo.com Sun Apr 1 21:46:18 PDT 2001

The Notebook's fifth anniversary, huh? Big smiles...it's a wonderful thing.

April 7th is my one year anniversary posting here. I have gotten to know some really great people since my initial grand-slam entrance. I am very grateful I wasn't tossed out on my ear for my, well ok, my bitchiness.

If I hadn't recognized when I did, the worth of this site, the people who post here, and the sentiment behind it, I would surely be missing out on what is, in my opinion, the greatest writer's group assembled on the internet.

Jack, I raise a toast to you!

Take it away HOWARD. ;-)

Rachel Sun Apr 1 21:00:32 PDT 2001

All - I'm singing, I'm dancing, I'm throwing my arms over my head and twirling without a care. I'm having so, so, so much fun! I hope you all will join me (great, big, open wide, friendly, wonderful, wram smiles to all of you)!

Ciao, ciao, ciao


Jack http://www.crocodiledundeeinla.com/ Sun Apr 1 18:29:47 PDT 2001

Jerry: Yes, I have enjoyed the earlier versions. The new version is called Crocodile Dundee in LA. Check out the web site above. If you have a high speed connection you can take in the trailer, which looks like it will be something of a reprise of the first. Which is cool for me. BTW, made the mistake of buying Charlie's Angels without checking it out first. It is about comperable with the TV version, albeit with better special effects. The writing, though it has a few moments, is otherwise pretty stale. Talk with you soon.

Jerry Sun Apr 1 17:46:12 PDT 2001

Who was it that said they loved Crockodile Dundee? Just saw on the boob tube that he has a new movie comming out about going to LA. Hope it is as good as the earlier ones.


Jack Beslanwitch jack@webwitch.com Sun Apr 1 16:54:08 PDT 2001

I did not mean to bring everything to a grinding halt. Please do post. Especially if you have memories you would like to share about the Notebook and its past. Given we are fast moving onto the fifth anniversary of the Notebook. Or will as of 2:04 in the morning tomorrow. This could be a time for reflections. A time for telling our successes and failures over the past five years. It is sometime hard to imagine that we have experienced the internet for better than half a decade. And hard to imagine all the changes that have taken place in terms of the writing industry, the process of creation and snares and frauds and sources of success that are out there now that were not when this locale on the internet began as simply Writing Resources, a tail that wagged to dog of Northwest Science Fiction Resources and that I eventually moved to its own locale and gave it face lift and a name change to For Writers Only and as a part of that, the Notebook took on a strong life of its own. When I changed For Writers Only to forwriters.com, the Notebook just kept groing ever stronger. This is hoping that it continues to do so over the coming year. Take care everyone.

p.s. And do nto worry about HTML snafus. I am ready and willing to take care of them where they happen. This place is too precious to not keep it rolling.

Banky banky@talk21.com Sun Apr 1 12:44:09 PDT 2001

Hey, I got my new machine. I guess that means I'll be able to post stuff more often.

Richard Sun Apr 1 12:31:54 PDT 2001

"What a desolate place this is," - C-3PO, Star Wars 'A New Hope'

Hellooooooo out there...

Tina Sat Mar 31 23:58:42 PST 2001

Hello all!

My this place looks empty. Glad you have it all under control, Jack.

Just saw 'Oh Brother Where Art Thou' and I'm absolutely delighted to say it's excellent. I like George Clooney, now. I laughed heartily. It's loosely based on 'Odyssey' by Homer, and now I have to find a copy of Odyssey. I read it years ago, but don't remember it well.

Have a good one!

Jerry Sat Mar 31 20:55:51 PST 2001

Jack - wow, fantastic sounding machine, I am drooling. Sorry to hear about the near meltdown. I had the surprise of my life today, my wife who was forever asking questions like "Why do we need a new computer?" and "Just exactly what do you think you are going to do with that computer?" turned to me while we were at mom's playing pinochle, and said, "Why don't you build me a new computer, you know one of those that lays flat under the monitor, not a stupid tower like I have?" -- Oh be still my heart, a requested computer, and me with a brand new box of check blanks on top of the china cabinet. But now the big question "Should I build her a faster computer then the one I have?"


Jack Beslanwitch jack@webwitch.com http://www.norwescon.org Sat Mar 31 20:03:04 PST 2001

Well, I put my desktop into for a major upgrade just as things here had an HTML melt down. I, unfortunately, failed to make sure that my main program for editing large HTML files (UltraDev 4) had the correct serial number immediately at hand. This meant that when I went to download the file and redo it I discovered I did not have my welcome environment and then when I went to hand code I found a slight nightmare of occasional tags that were conflicting with each other. So, until I can get to it, the Notebook for the last little while is sitting on Fran's computer until I can make some minor surgery to it and get it up on the archive page. Sorry about that.

I am looking forward to the new upgrade, a Athlon Thunderbird 1.2 gig chip with 512 megs of PC 133 ram, a 64 meg video card, 60 gig hard drive and a built in CD/RW. Oh, and the item that got this all rolling, new SCZZY and Firewire cards that will allow me to do some upscale video editing. These may find there way here at least as links. Take care everyone and be gentle with the HTML. We are almost onto the fifth Anniversary of the Notebook so hopefully some of the old timers can reflect on how the Notebook has prospered, changed and grown in scope over the last five years.

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