Archived Messages 5/29/01 to 6/20/01


Wow, there's a lot here. I might actually have to think a bit...I hate that :-)

TL: Of all the characters I've come up with, the newest is always the fave. I created a young saint in China, called her St. Freda...killed her though. And then there's George, a young Englishman who seems to weave in and out of several stories...killed him too, but he keeps coming back (but not as a ghost). Edna St. Vincent DePaul, a crippled artist married to a fat, abusive bastard of a husband...killed both of them. And there's Yevgeny the Dwarf, another artist--I seem to like artists for some reason--but I didn't kill him. Each character is different in one way or another though; each one has a history I try to relate through different means. I enjoy creating them, and try to make each one a little more in depth than the last one. I add a little more insight, a little more sensitivity, and a little more description to each story so that everything grows along with me. I think that's why I like writing so much. I can see myself growing with the characters, and improving.

RHODA: I don't tell my friends what I'm writing until they ask me if I'm still writing, and then I just say Yup. When they come over and I happen to be working, and they ask me what I'm writing, I patiently try to explain it to them. And then I say, You wanna hear a bit of it? I like to read it out loud because it's good to hear it.

Randall: It's funny how you said the other side of time like that. I actually used that expression in my story today, but not in the same context, and it was just a throw away line--but I thought it was neat. I like your explanation a lot better though. Yours had a little more thought involved, mine was just babbling.

And who doesn't like at least one John Denver song? Remember when Magnum P.I. ended, and they faded out with that Denver song? Can't remember the name of it, but personally, I think that was one of his best. Just love that song.

Rhoda: As long as the horse is not drunk, I don't think they can arrest you. My neighbour drives a bus, and he says he was driving the other day and saw a horse tied up across the street from a small neighbourhood pub. He thought, nah, what are the chances? Sure enough though, next run, the horse is still there, still chewing grass. Finally, near the end of his day, he sees the guy on the horse, barely able to hang onto the saddle horn as the horse walked him back home in a nice, slow, straight line.

It's midnight now, so I figure I can get a couple hours of work in. I'll start by re-reading what I wrote today, editing it as always, and maybe come up with another page or two. The secret, they say, (and Randall will probably know this because it comes from Hemmingway), is to leave of at a point where the story interests you. That way you'll be eager to get back to it.



Ben 6-20-2001 2:59

*Tina*

Wow. My brain hurts. Randall, time has sides? I love it. Our perceptions are so limited! But Heather, I disagree that the past is fictional. The future can be anything, and the present is all we can affect, but the past makes us who we are. Good or bad. We use the past to determine who we are now, as a person and as a people. I can see the past. Every time I think about my friends and family, my father, my grandmother, the flowers I planted when I was eight, my first bicycle, my dog Poco who was lost when I was 16. I can hold it in my hands; the mental hands I use to weigh a decision, that is based on the things I’ve learned in the past.

Rhoda, so glad to here how your garden grows! It is a lovely feeling, when tender seeds erupt into life.

Mary, of course you don’t write like Diana Gabaldon. You write like you! And I challenge anyone to say that what you write is any less than what she does. I’ve read your work, I know the truth! And the reason you ‘bother’ is because you have things to say, unique things that people like Gabaldon would never ever think to say.
Oh, and remember that she had been writing for years, just not fiction. 'Outlander' was her first fiction, but her job was writing academic stuff.

I Solemnly Swear that I have HUGE respect and admiration for all stay-at-home moms! Your patience and devotion is beyond my limited scope of comprehension. You are all awesome!
Really, when people work at a daycare, or are a nanny, it’s considered ‘real work’. Stay-at-home parents have ten times the work load, 24/7. I don’t know how anyone considers it to not be ‘real work’. I place that attitude in the same slot as when ‘mom’ goes out one night and ‘dad’ is home with the kids, and people say he’s ‘babysitting’ his kids. Ahgg! That makes me very irate! Any man looking after his own children is being a parent, not a babysitter!

Okay, now that I’ve contributed my rant, it’s back to writing (after I go move the sprinkler). I’ve had an amasing week of writing, and I don’t want it to stop yet!
TTFN


Tina 6-20-2001 1:21

JERRY:

Was Randolph Scott jailed for RUI (You know, riding under the influence)? After all these years, they still haven't figured what they added to that Sasperilla.

Rhoda 6-20-2001 1:12

HEATHER,

I loved THE UNICORN SONG by the Irish Rovers. My father played that for me as a kid along with Jeannie C. Riley's HARPER VALLEY PTA. I sang the Unicorn Song to my babies as I rocked them to sleep by night.

Another favorite: Jim Crocre's TIME IN A BOTTLE.

That's it!!!

RANDALL,

Time exists only in a bottle--the little one we all live in or is it a yellow submarine? Ah, I don't know. I'll leave the philosopical stuff to you, my friend.


Rhoda 6-20-2001 1:06

Oh, and what ever happened to Randolph Scott?

Jerry Ericsson 6-20-2001 0:28

Gotta agree with the opinion that John Denver was a great singer, I loved many of his songs, but many may be unaware of another gift he gave the world. It was John Denver, and his expensive attorneys who first dreamed up the double jeopardy defense in a DUI arrest. You see John was arrested in Vale, if I remember right, and put forth the defense that since his privilege to drive was suspended by an administrative hearing, where he was forced to give testimony as to his actions in the crime, he had already been punished for the crime of DUI, and that jeopardy had attached at the administrative hearing. His judge bought it, and dismissed his case in court. The state appealed the decision based on the fact that if it were allowed to stand, it would overturn all DUI convictions in the US, and change the way the law handled DUI's all over the US. The judges ruling was held up in several appeals courts, but eventually overturned by, and I may be wrong here but if memory serves me, by the US supremes. Why do I know this, you may ask, well my required 40 page report on law for my Research and Writing 400 was based on this case and the two cases his attorneys used in court. I managed an A on the report, so it impressed the hell out of the instructor at any rate. Even though he was a drunk, and was probably a bit on the tipsy side when he flew off to the great beyond, he was a hell of an artist. I too remember that muppet show, God how I loved that stupid show, it is a sad state of affairs that shows like that aren't made anymore, no awards are given to shows about homosexuals who interact with straight women and such. The entertainment world has gone to hell in a hand basket, it is no wonder our kids are killing kids, no wonder that the militia's are drawing such a great following, that boys are blowing up federal buildings. Ok so I can rant a bit too, but to do any other would not be me.

Jerry Ericsson 6-20-2001 0:11

RANDALL - WOW - what a wonderful theory for a book, when are you going to begin writting it? I want to read it when you have it started, then when it is done. The other side of time, think about it, well apparently you have, now write about it!


Jerry Ericsson 6-19-2001 23:54

Randall - does time actually exist, or is it a concept put forth by man?

Without clocks, the seasons still run themselves, but does the Earth believe that each year is the same year over?
Does the Earth have a natural rhythm that we have merely trodden upon and structured to suit ourselves?
Just think of daylight savings time. How ludicrous is this idea! If we stopped cranking our clocks forward in the spring and back in the fall, would modern society fall apart? No. So why do we bother? Just another filler for the eternally bored over-sized brained folk that try to prove their omnipotency by controlling our lives on this planet.
If we had smaller brains we wouldn't do such self-destructive things like structure our waking hours with clocks (and jobs, meetings, and other stressful schedules), or fiddle with machinery, or atoms, or the atmosphere. We wouldn't be a consumerist society, nor a mass of desperate fiends in a series of races after the big unattainable, the large unknowns. Our minds wouldn't dwell constantly in the future, which, for the sake of truth, is fictional. All we have is this moment, right here. Right now.
We don't need a machine (such as a clock or a time-card) to tell us that.
And past? What is past but the previous moments we can not manipulate? It is fictional then too, because we cannot use it. We cannot see it. We can't hold it in our hands.
This moment, we can hold. And we can keep holding it, because it's always new.



Heather 6-19-2001 23:46

John Denver - yup, loved his music too. Grew up on it - his appearance on the Muppet Show - remember that? He sang 'Grandma's Feather Bed' and all of Gonzo's chickens were bouncing all over... I think almost every Muppet was on the bed in that skit. (And four hound dogs...)
My Dad used to sing in the car on our many family trips, (and sometimes we'd sing along of course!) and he'd sing 'Country Roads' a lot, and 'Sunshine on my Shoulders'...
So for Father's Day I burned a CD for my Dad with a whole pile of songs on it that he used to love to sing on those trips. Even put on the tape 'The Unicorn' song by the Irish Rovers. He had a tear in his eye when he got into his SUV and popped that CD into the player.
Nothing like saying 'I love you' with a song.... (Yeah, that's a Jim Croce song)

Heather 6-19-2001 23:10

RANDALL

Good evening!

Randall, off on a tangent, is not a social person. He hears nothing but the gears, albeit rusty, spinning in his head. Does not communicate well, a manner that is single-minded and often construed as aloof. Randall ponders and the world fades away. Not someone to trust while disarming a nuclear device!

The Chambers Brothers had as good a definition of time as Stephen Hawking, on widely divergent levels to be sure. But then, we all view time, the passage of, through filters within our own conception of what's what, if you will. By events, "Happy Fathers Day, you'all!" past, present and future. "Merry Christmas!" June 21'th is big in my own little personal area of time anticipation. Marks the beginning of summer, but from that point on the days become shorter, starting the long, slow slide to fall and winter. My favorite time of the year. I'm up at 7 AM, at work by 7:30 AM, coffee at 7:31 AM. Short drive, huh? Should see me leave the driveway! Or pour the coffee Teekay! :-) Lunch from 11 to 12 back to work till 5 PM, then home. Time is and has directed my life for, at least 53 years. That's why a few of us have beards...not enough time to shave.

SO WHAT? What in the hell are you.........

Well, today the other delivery driver, wrote a short message on a package of auto air filters. "Next delivery to the other side of time." He meant..."other side of town" of course. I strolled in, mind in neutral, saw the note, slid to a stop, stared, WHAT? Gears squealed behind my eyes and the world faded away. Which side of time do we live on? Jeeze, never realized there was more than one! "...other side of time." Have I missed something in life? Time has sides???????? WOW, no wonder I'm so confused! Is it possible the dinosaurs lived to the right of time? Not in the past as erroneously reported?

May we cross time from side to side? Not forward or backward, but a lateral movement? Gears spinning faster now, rust and debris bouncing inside the cranium.......Thought there was only three considerations in time...past, present, future. Now someone has identified time has sides? Left...right...center? Mr. Hawking tells us the light from a distant star does not indicate the star still exists. Just escaping light waves, photons speeding merrily along at 186,000 miles a second. If another planet exists at the same distance as earth, but 90 degrees from our position...would time be moving, sideways? Black Holes capture light, eradicate gravity, indeed, punch holes in the very fabric of space...and time! Are there Black Holes, perhaps with a side-saddle mentality that warp space, punch holes, sideways? To the other side of time?

Left or right? Center? Left of center? Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

The assistant manager, recognizing the signs gently led me to a chair and gave me a glass of water. I heard him tell the other employees. "He's okay, off on a tangent somewhere. I've known Randall for years, soon as he sorts it out he'll be back with us."

Yes, I know I'm weird. But at least I know the correct site to jot all this down on and have some REAL good company as well. Huh?

Good night :-)

Randall

Left or right?




Randall 6-19-2001 23:06

Rachael:

I especially love all the wicked rotten ones. They have all the best lines.



Debra 6-19-2001 23:05

***Rhoda again***

VIV,

I have to comment on your post because you decribed my life. I have been out of the job market for almost 14 years. I normally don't feel so out of place because everywhere I have lived I have found people of similar occupation, but here in Owasso where everyone works and on a given day I am the only adult on the street, being a stay-at-home mom gets lonely indeed.

It was difficult with my sisters-in-law when I was with them in England. One of them stayed at home many years and just recently returned to the job market. The other one is a working mom and plans to be one the rest of her natural life. It was awkward at times because in many of their conversations I had nothing to add. I just sat there silently listening. At times I felt completely out of touch because my world and my perspective was so different.

But I am glad I made the choice to stay home. This life might not be for everyone, but thank God I had the choice--some don't.

I am looking forward to getting a part time job or doing some volunteer work next fall since my youngest will be going to school full time.



Rhoda 6-19-2001 22:35

Oh, Mary, you and I have so much in common. I'm lucky to get four hours of sleep a night during the week. I sleep like a dead bear on weekends, so I'm extremely lucky my husband is understanding enough to just let me lay there, decomposing in the sheets.
Sometimes he gets a little peeved because he's a morning person (and I haven't SEEN a GOOD morning more than once, though I've seen too many early ones) and he likes to get our weekend projects started before ten a.m. Unfortunately, ten a.m. on a weekend is not my finest hour. Can't even hold a hammer until noon at least, and that's with lots of coffee to lube up my finger joints. (Internally, you understand)
And, frustration factor increasing here, I'm the one usually designing the project. So, our hammering time together is short, since by the time I'm raring to go, he's fizzling. Not much overlap.
I have to remind myself though, is it vital that our closet drywall job be mudded and taped this very minute? Is it lifethreatening if I don't have somewhere to hang the out-of-season clothes and coats other than in the laundry room? Well, it's not the highest priority. I'd rather get those three hours in a night writing (or somewhere in that neighbourhood) and have a completed novel rather than have a satisfying spot to shove clothes. Both will get finished. It's all a matter of which comes first.
Now when it comes to kids, my husband, and our precious family time, yes, they get my number one attentions. Top priority.
I'm a bit of a neat freak (can a freak be described in terms such as 'a bit'?) so cleaning comes next. I can't seem to write many pages while at a cluttered desk - even mess distracts me. I am like Mary with the timing - I've always been far more energetic and productive after night falls. From the kids' bedtimes until around 3 am I'm a dynamo - the only thing is that I can't run the vacuum at midnight since it wakes everyone up, or I would.
I usually have enough time to check emails and post during the day while my son builds at his lego table.
My serious writing demands full concentration, which in turn demands a quiet, calm, neat and clean atmosphere, (coffee, notepads, pens all lined up neatly, and energy). It's been working quite well so far, this staying up late habit, but I do admit I could use more sleep. What is that adage? Not enough hours in a day.
Streamlining.
I'll give it some thought. Serious thought. I could probably streamline my posts a bit more! (Oh, I hear your shouts! You agree!)
I can't take time from cleaning, and I have to go to work at some point in my evenings, spend time dancing in my studio or my livingroom (that's my workout) and I certainly won't take time away from family.
Hmmm. Maybe I'll just never go out for groceries, like Sean Connery (William Forrester) in 'Finding Forrester'!
What a great idea.


Heather 6-19-2001 22:25

I love that idea branied about here on giving up housework. I have been working at doing that for years. Ask any of my neighbors who happen to show up on my doorstep unannounced.

The garden is better. My sick plants are hanging on and improving, and I GOT SPROUTS!!! I am so happy I could sing.

OK, here goes:

Inch by inch,
Row by row,
Going to make this garden grow.
All it takes is a rake and a hoe
And a piece of fertile ground.

Inch by inch,
Row by row,
Someone bless these seeds I sow,
Someone warm them from below,
While the rain comes tumbling down.


Plant your rows straight and tall,
Temper them with prayer and song,
Mother Earth will keep them strong,
If you give them love and care.
Old crow watching hungrily
From your perch in yonder tree.
In my garden I'm as free as that
Feathered Thief up there.


Thank you John Denver---may you rest in peace. How I miss his music. No one will ever replace him.

I had a long discussion with one of my critique buddies on the phone the other day. I had met her last fall at the ROMANTIC TIMES conference in Houston, and we have been trading our writing ever since over the Internet. We talked about writing, our projects, and did a lot of brain storming. After that session, ideas and words just started flowing and I am writing new stuff again. I am determined to turn off that blasted internal editor and just let the words flow. I can check the facts, the spelling and the grammer later.

BEN,

I am glad your friends are supportive of your writing. I don't mention my writing anymore to anyone who doesn't write, because all I seem to get when I do are blank stares.

MARY,

I have been in a similar state for the past two and a half months. With me it is John Lawhead and his Pendragon series. I have read three out of five of these books. I skipped the last two for now and went on to a newer book called AVALON. I cannot put that book down either. The interesting thing is that while I am reading these books I am still reading an occassional romance and science fiction novel. Also I am working my way through a book on the Scotch Irish. I don't know what has happened to me, but my reading speed has greatly picked up.

MARY,

Reading is essential to the writing process. It is good you have found something that has inspired you so much. You will learn a lot subconsciously from the experience. Diana Gabaldon started writing not knowing exactly what she was doing. She just wrote her novel the way she wanted to. I wonder what would have become of her if she had asked all her writer friends and read all the books on it and studied the market. She probably would have concluded that the book of her heart could not have worked and had given up or maybe she would have settled for something less. I admire her greatly.

Speaking of reading. I read an older book from the library recently called PRINCESS. Has anyone else here read that book about the Saudi Arabian princess? That book opened up a whole new world for me. It was utterly fascinating. I read the whole thing in a day.

Got to go clean out a fish tank, feed some cats, and get some kids off to bed.

Rhoda





Rhoda 6-19-2001 22:24

TL,

I love all of my characters. Even the wicked and rotten ones. How could I not? Hum, sometimes I even love the wicked ones more (winks).

Take care you.

Rachel

Rachel 6-19-2001 20:34

Ben: I know what you mean. I get a three month vacation. I always think I'm going to have time to write or do what I want. I end up doing the same things....clean cupboards that were disarranged, scrub floors, do laundry, make breakfast lunch and dinner, clean all dishes, sew up rips, take child to her classes and sports, and there's always that lovely trip out to buy food. It seems like I ought to have time to write. Then I get really resentful and depressed because it feels like everyone expects me to do things just because I am home. When I am teaching, the house is a wreck but everyone pitches in because that's the only way we'd survive. I declare Saturday cleaning day and everyone does the chores then.

No one will respect that demand when I'm writing. I'm expected to write at night when all the housework is done (it never is). I don't make a paycheck so it "isn't serious".

It's the NOT "working person's syndrome". When I didn't work and "JUST" stayed home with the kids, I was treated like a bloodsucking B****ch by society in general.

I think that envy of someone staying home writing is what makes it difficult work. It's the same if you do the stay at home mother job.

It's the same with young mothers when they go through the exhausting process of taking the kids to the pool. They pack up all the toys, towels, lunch, put on all the little swimsuits and sandles, take off one swimsuit and change diaper , put swimsuit back on and then find the keys to the car. They Go to pool. They sweat profusely and watch proudly as their magnus opus finally learns to put face in water. They hand out sandwiches and drinks. Then they do the gathering....Gather the kids, the soggy towels, the bentos, sandles, the stray toys, and start for the showers. After driving home through heavy traffic and making dinner they hear the oh so famous words....

"You went to the pool all day. That must be so nice. Lucky you! I had to work!"

I think this is about the same as writing/housework. If you compound it with kids you have an even heavier load. Still, I'm glad I did kids and marriage. Those people are worth it and all my stories come from the things I've experienced with them and through them. That last one came from my youngest daughter age 7. I asked her why she didn't go examine the interesting living creatures in the rice but just walked with her friends in the center of the road.

I guess the best way to manage is figure it's worth it, because you really love your wife, and you really love your writing. You got in as much as you could.

Why feel guilty?

But I always feel guilty too.



Viv 6-19-2001 20:11

**Teekay**

Howdy dudes,

MEL: I could give you stacks of advice about what to do, but it would all be made up. I sort of do the BEN thing. Do what I can and don't sweat it too much.

BEN: Don't worry, once you get that first book published your wife will look at your writing with new eyes.
You'll probably still have to clean the garage though.

MARY: I know the feeling. There are plenty of books I've read where I've thought "Bloody hell, there's no way in the world I can write as well as this." and the only thing that cures the depression that brings forth is when I read a book and I think, "This is a load of rot, I could do better than this in my sleep." Which I probably couldn't, but I think it anyway.

GARIESS: It is indeed very good to have you back sir. :-)
And the writers cramp I get is actually cramp from using my hand to write too much. ;-D

Finally thought of a new ghostie story. Was racking my brain (sing.) all last night. My thoughts must've all got together while I was sleeping and dredged this little number up.

Teekay 6-19-2001 20:00

552 kb - a record!!!!

6-19-2001 19:27

Still writing.
Working on a screenplay.
Was thinking about character and figured I'd ask...

Of the stories you've written, who is your favorite character?

TL 6-19-2001 16:06


HEATHER: Nipple shots aren't obligatory to me, but then, I'm not fifteen. I don't complain if I happen to see one, but I'm not disappointed if I don't either.

MELANIE: Got my life in order? Hardly the case here. I've been off work for all of last week, and go back next Monday. (They just called today.) I've edited two stories, and have about 1200 words of my new one. Hardly what I'd call a productive week. Not exactly the output I was hoping to have with ten work days off. I guess the wife has other ideas of what should be done with my time off. Clean the garage and organize things in it; do the laundry, and the vacuuming; clean the car; help get dinner ready; fold the laundry, sort it and put it away...and now that football season's starting, it'll be even busier. So, even with everything done, I still have to get up in the morning or stay up late at night to write. I think it's because she doesn't take it as seriously as I do. She thinks a clean house is more important, but that's because she's a neat freak and I'm not--but I wouldn't want it any other way.

TINA: Socially, we don't go out as much as we used. We go to visit friends, but that's about it. No dinners out anymore, or nights on the town, no more pub nights/bar hopping/dance your face off until ya puke nights like we did tewnty years ago. Now we entertain at home, and it's usually in the kitchen because she likes to make "appies" for the company. They all think it's great that I write, and understand that I need time to do it, and they're even willing to sit and listen if I ask them to...but that's only after they ask me what I'm writing now. If I had my way, I'd be independantly wealthy, send the wife and kids off to Florida, or California for weeks at a time, and write all the time. But since I'm not, and since I can't (they wouldn't let that happen), I do what I can, when I can, with little or no regret. I always tell my wife she's my favourite distraction. And since she has Thursday off, I know I won't be getting anything done then.

Gotta run though. I want to look up something about Fauvism, a neo-impressionist style of painting in the twenties in France. It was a fore-runner to Cubism--and then I wanna see if I can find something about counterfieting. After all, I got all my chores done early so I could have the time to look around. I hope I can enjoy the day; it's only noon.

Ben 6-19-2001 15:11

MARY: YES! STREAMLINE!!! :-) I've tried to streamline children too but, as you know, it doesn't work. SO, I'll work on everything else! Thanks for your thoughts. Dream happy things...hire a babysitter once in awhile so you can have a big chunk of time to yourself. It helps!

Mel 6-19-2001 15:05

Howdy pardners!

Hope all is as it should be with your lives.

I am in a tailspin, all tangled up in what I am reading. I can't write anything; I can't sit still without that book in my hand for more than ten minutes. It has everything that I love, bundled together by a genius tale-weaver. It is times like these, when I am totally enraptured by someone else's written words, that I wonder why I even bother. Never in a million years will I have the abilities Diana Gabaldon has. That is not self-deprecation, it is just reality and fact. She wrote "The Outlander" as a practice novel, just fooling around, and my best work doesn't hold a candle.

MEL: The sacrificial lamb for me has always been sleep. I have really bad sleep patterns and my most productive time of day is between midnight and 3AM. Even before I started writing, all my housework and projects were done then. (I have never enjoyed sleep much anyway) That was back in the old days when I was single and running the 2AM sweeper didn't perturb anyone but my dog. I also had the liberty of afternoon naps, which my children have stripped from me quite efficiently.

After I started writing, and after the children were born, the only time I could sit at the keyboard without being interrupted every fifteen seconds is late at night. I am not a person who can write with constant interruptions, I need my concentration, and peace. Sooo...sequestered in my dark little cave of a writing room, with only the light of the monitor (can't even see the keyboard), I type away my thoughts. Unfortunately, you have to walk thru my writing room to get to the bathroom, but my husband learned fairly quickly via 'the evil eye', that he better not be passing thru between midnight and 2AM (sometimes 4AM if I am on a roll).

However, even I can't survive this many years on only three-five hours of sleep a night and it has finally caught up with me. My doctor has put me on a program to make me get more sleep and hopefully cease my nightmares. I hope I adjust soon, this is crazy. My point is that since I can't give up sleep in the face of writing, what do I do? I think you and I are quite a bit alike in our priorities and it is one hell of a dilemma. My plan is to try to streamline everything in my life except my children. Children can't be contained, it's a 'highest disorder' scientific fact. All my other responsibilities and duties, however, can certainly stand some trimming and heightened efficiency ratings. That is what I am working on now, dumping all the excess baggage and keeping the essentials (writing be one of the essentials).

I am just starting in this process myself, but as I come across ideas that really work for me, I will certainly share them with you.

OK, guess I had better stifle myself for a while before I get evicted. Good luck and happy writing.

ps: shortie night theme, friends/friendships

Mary 6-19-2001 14:41

test

6-19-2001 13:49

Uh, tina...

I rewrote and revised the first few chapters, may answer some questions. Also have a new title. "Human Voices Wake Us" enjoy...

Laura

laura 6-19-2001 13:24

TINA: Thanks! I think I've got it figured out! I'll be SUPERWOMAN and do it all--no, not all--I won't give up writing or family...I'll give up: HOUSEWORK! YES!!! (uh, what? I already gave that up? well, not counting this week, that is, getting ready for a houseparty, but after that...? HOORAY! I'll be FREE for the SUMMER!!!) :-)

Mel 6-19-2001 12:54

*Tina*
Hiya!

Ah! It’s movie review day. Yes, I say Tomb Raider on the weekend. Liked it for the same reasons Jack did. It came from a video game, so that changed my expectations, made me forgive the weak dialogue. Yes, I saw Finding Forester and LOVED it. A truly beautiful movie, with Sean Connery to boot (drool drool… Tina, get control of yourself! Pant pant sigh) My most recent favourite movie would have to be Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. Superb. The story, the acting, the cinematography… excellent and beautiful. It deserves every single award it wins.
Looking forward to seeing Atlantis and Shrek and Planet of the Apes and Lord of the Rings and (a long way down the line) Matrix 2 and the next Star Wars!

Mel, it’s a never ending battle to balance writing, family, work and life. I have nothing the likes of your dilemma, but I understand it. If I write too much, I feel guilty for not seeing friends and family and getting to the gym and park as much as I like to. If I commit to social activities, I feel resentful to lose writing time. (sigh)
Here’s a question. Think ahead five years or so, or even ten. Will you be disappointed to miss this opportunity to do something you clearly believe in? Or will you be disappointed to have been set back in your writing and have your family time hampered? Regardless of your decision, time will still pass and you’ll be two years older at the end. Which choice carries regret? Take the one with no regret.

Heather, I love your t-shirt. Still chuckling….

Rachel, it definitely makes play-fighting hard! Some days Troy and I have to be cautious every time we come near each other. We’re always out to get the other with a pressure point, or a choke. Keeps life interesting! :-D

Here and gone again.....



Tina 6-19-2001 11:01

**Mel**

A sunny day to everybody here - if not from the sky, then from my smile... :-)

TEEKAY: Teekay also sounds Australian, maybe like you know some kangaroos or koalas personally (supposed to be a compliment - I would personally love to know, personally, some personable kangaroos and koalas!) :-) {Hmm, must be "witty block" -- don't pay any attention)

ALLEIN: We took the fambly to see "Atlantis" on the weekend. Loved it! :-) Especially the robots doing their awesome thing near the end - cool effects. And no sappy songs - yea!

JACK: "Atlantis" is very good, once you get past the "Stargate" parodies, mostly in the beginning. I KNow Disney likes to poke fun at a variety of sources, but this part just came across to me as unoriginal. On the other hand, they did a great parody of "Selma" from "Night Court" and the overall special effects were very cool! :-)

ANYONE: Ever have trouble balancing the writing life, family life, and the social responsibilities? Sometimes I think my writing should be all-important (next to taking care of the family) and I shouldn't concern myself with any other community commitments. But then I feel the "head rush" (akin to the writing head-rush after you've written a great scene) when I sing an anthem with the church choir or ring bells with the handbell choir and fill the congregation with the joy of inspirational music...well, I'm also an officer in an organization that serves God and country (Order of the Eastern Star) and I have before me the opportunity to reach out to community charity groups and REALLY make a difference in this life, in my little corner of the world. Not just writing about a better world to inspire people, as my sf&f is all about, but to actually make a tangible difference in the here and now...Well, it's scary, to me, a writer usually living in a futuristic dreamworld of my own creation...and I know a two-year commitment to be a leader in OES will really cut into my writing time and family time even further...sigh. If I don't do it, will I regret it? Probably. But then I will get my novel done sooner...But will the novel make any difference to anyone else's world?? Maybe. Decisions, decisions...Any of you writers out there have similar predicaments? I bet you've all got your lives in order: you play with your families, you write your stories, and say "to heck with any other commitments: I'm a WRITER!" Um, please let me know if I'm forming the wrong picture of you - I could stand to hear a differing image!! My guilt-ridden conscience, y'know, too often letting myself be distracted from the writing thing (although I'm almost always writing stuff in my head, no matter what I'm doing!)...

Well, that was long-winded! (Breathe here. I'm going!)

Have a good day - write a few words for me! (MEL'S MUSE: I know you're trying to get me to sit down and write that P* story...sigh. Will I make the August deadline or not?? At least other social activities are curtailed for the summer - yes! :-) Just let me get through this graduation weekend and the 10-yr-old's end-of-June birthday...!)

Melanie 6-19-2001 9:19

Uh, sorry 'bout the typoos *snort*

Forgot to mention another movie I thoroughly enjoyed (saw it on TMN last week): The Big Tease. (1999 film)
It was absolutely side-splitting! Filmed in an unusual manner, and perfectly delightfully funny!
I recommend it if a very light, bubbly mood is desired.

If not, I recommend sleeping.

Heather 6-19-2001 9:15

Ben - are nipple shots obligatory? Total exposure? I thought lately, with all the Brittany Spears you can choke on, it was belly buttons. ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz...

Guess we'll have to re-think the pictures for back cover copy, friends! HA HA HAHAHA HA HA!

Top of the mornin' to you all,
and a supoer-productive day. Or, if you're more like I am, a super-productive night. Obligatory, my dear Watson. Obligatory.

Obligatory; James Obligatory.

Anyone seen 'Finding Forrester'? I enjoyed it very much. Sean Connery lives up to his title of 'actor'.


Heather 6-19-2001 9:11

Jack: Me an' Kim took Wes to see it last night. Of course, Wes being 15 with raging hormones, he found it hard to believe there was no obligatory nipple shot when she was wearing that nice, tight, jumpsuit in the north country. I think he had the movie confused with that old one when I was 15 "The Deep". :-)


Ben 6-19-2001 3:51

p.p.s. Also, I just noted that things were to a half meg here. I will endeavor to Archive sometime tomorrow. Take care.

Jack Beslanwitch 6-19-2001 3:42

p.s. Unless it is Moulan Rouge

6-19-2001 3:41

Allein: Look forward to the updated picture. I will be working on a Flash front end for the page with a fall back to a regular page. I envision something along the lines of our pictures flowing in in muted colors but when moused over the slide into focus in full color with text describing that picture flowing up the side. Will think about it. This will take this week to pull off. Will let everyone know.


Just got to see Tomb Raider today. Despite all the negative reviews I liked it. Liked it a lot. It was non stop action with a plot that was faithful to the game and the spirit of the game. Which, I think is why Ebert and Roper split their decision. Roger Ebert, the died in the wool science fiction fan, loved it. Roper, the stick in the mud nose in the air movie reviewer, joined in with many others and just did not get it. Perhaps to put things in perspective, I went to the newspaper site and read Ebert's full review. He called it one of the first true popcorn movies of the season. I agree with him. I also look forward to Atlantis, which, BTW, both of the notables mentioned above, liked. I especially am interested when Ebert mentions that this is the first homage to anime from Disney. And, all I have to say when I hear that they are skipping the singing and dancing is, Yipppeeee. Horraaaaaay. Halllllllelujah. Hmmmm. Well, yes, from that you might suspect I can do without musical numbers.

Jack 6-19-2001 3:39


Gariess: Sartre was an existentialist - perhaps the major philosopher behind that 'concept'. I have a T-shirt that says:
"I'm not here, you're not here, don't leave a message, there is no beep"
[Sartre's Answering Machine]

I also have other T-shirts that say nothing.

Rachel: My zit of the month had very bad timing. (So do all of them!) I have to learn to plan things around the once-a-month pimple. It also has no taste in where it pops up. Usually in full view, and no concealer on the planet can hide it. ARGGG!

Blood sugar bottoming out. Must go find snack.
Then write.

SLudging to the cupboard...



Heather 6-19-2001 3:06

Heather,
That’s an interesting word you used, shenanigans. One of the few words in our language taken directly from the language of the Irish, very rhythmic and phonetically interesting.
About all that "wish" stuff you were going on about. I don’t know who Sartre was. He might have been the guy who heard me make a wish once and said, "Why don’t you wish in one hand and shit in the other, and see which one fills up first?" Actually, now that I think about it, that was a guy in the Philippines, Randall. In Pampanga though, not in Olongapo (Air Force.)

Allien,
Nobody who looks like a Simpsons character is going to touch my teeth unless it is against my will and done with ill intent. I’m sure your techniques will improve soon with the xray materials.

Teekay,
When you get a hand cramp it comes out, "Arghhh, hand cramp!" For me it’s always, Arghhh, ha;klbjl. How do you manage that?

Rosemary,
I agree. I have always been told that titles can’t be copyrighted. There are something like twenty songs titled. "I love You" under copyright. I would think the same goes for literary titles. Sometimes choice is involved. When Dolly Parton recorded Nine To Five, another woman recorded a song under the same title. The publishers worked out a different title for the song. I can’t recall the title but the fist line was, "My baby takes the morning train. He works from nine to five and then…" It just worked out better for both interests regardless of legality.

I guess that’s enough for one long post.

I am the weakest link, Goodbye!!

GS



Gariess 6-18-2001 22:30

Jack - The picture you have up is fine. It's from the 10th grade but I haven't changed much. Maybe when I get back from NY I'll have a more up-to-date picture for you. :)

I just saw Atlantis and it was very good. Unlike the previous Disney movies there was no random breaking into song and dance numbers. The characters were a little under-developed because there were so many, but most of them were very funny. And in the end - the special effects are wonderful. :)

Allein Allein's World 6-18-2001 21:59

Heather - I do know what you mean about the once a month thing. If I get ant acne, it is at that time, or right before i'm supposed to look good for something, or have a picture taken. One would think that as adults we would get to put zits behind us (grrrr). I tend to get only one zit, if any. That one zit will seem to stand out like a neon sign to me. People never seem to notice my zits. I think I'm the only one that they are a big deal to

Mel - That was my front (winks).

Ciao for now.

Rachel

Rachel 6-18-2001 20:51

**Teekay**

Hewo hewo hewo all you fine unfeathered folk,

BEN: Don't you just love it when you get an idea in your head and you can see that it's got enough scope to make it the size of a book (one of my major problems).
When you posted your plot idea I had a bit of a giggle cos it brought to mind those people who post here and say. "I really love writing, but I just don't know what to write about, so could someone please give me a plot" :-D
Good luck with it and I sure hope you don't run out of ink before printing 'C & co.."

TAYLOR: Don't be gone too long. I'll miss you.
P.S. Have you posted the dracula story?

HEATHER: I got just as confused as you did with the photo for S*, and then, I clicked. Oh how silly of me. ALLEIN doesn't use her real name either.

HEATHER: I'm going to try and work on a story for P** today. I don't know why, I haven't any clues as to what I'll write I'm only doing this coz JERRY is.
Oh, he said 2 stories. Okay, I'll try.

RACHEL: I wouldn't really get bopped on the nose, which is pretty lucky coz I wouldn't know a judo move to save myself, although I can do all the sound effects REALLY well:
oooooooooooooeeeeeeeeeeYAH! Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeahhhhhhhh HA!
oeeeeeeeeeeioooooeioeeeeeeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiooooooYAH!
And I do all those snake like writhy actions pretty good too. I've never gone farther than that though.

ALLEIN, AMERICO, JACK, RACHEL: (in alphabetical order) It is so good to be able to put faces to the names.

Okay, so TEEKAY it is. Good, I was rather partial to it myself and now moreso because of what MEL said.

Well that's it from me today all you good folk. I'm off to find my pen and paper and hope for something ghostlike and creepy yo arrive.
Fingers crossed.

P.S. I have a bit of catch up reading to do in P*. I'll get to it a bit later.

Going.



Teekay 6-18-2001 20:35

RACHEL: Hey, back (or front, whichever way I caught you facing!) :-) Your picture came out very nice.

HEATHER: Couldn't post to the NB over the weekend - it seems there were maggots all over the posts...yuck!!! :-{
HAHAHAHAHA Writing time while waiting for my son...Hell no. The party's at MY house! I've got to clean it before Sunday!! His graduation ceremony is Saturday evening - have to fit in the cleaning before then. If I'm a good girl and do some cleaning each evening, take off Friday from work and clean some more, MAYBE I'll be done by Saturday evening and can do some (*looks both ways for distractions*)-shhhh!- writing, while the graduate is off Sat. eve on his congratulatory Senior Class cruise on a nearby lake (that's the Keuka Maid in Watkins Glen on Seneca Lake, Howard and Mark, or anyone else lurking in New York State!).

TINA: Oh no! Reviewing my novels-to-be made me see them in a new light! A plot-thread I thought was minor (my little heroine-to-be) is really a crucial plotline! Now what do I do with the REST of the plots and subplots??? Too many ideas, ramming into one big happy slam-dance in my brain! Ohh, the confusing joy!! What to write first??!! WHEN to write it all down? (I know, I know, RANDALL, I gotta write it all down!!!)...My muse is getting ready to bite me bigtime and I haven't got time this week to write...oh dear, oh dear...maybe I just won't sleep for a few days and write instead...no, no, no, I'll be a walking slughead (that's a really slow worm). I don't drink coffee so can't stay awake that long anyway...oh, fiddle-fish!!! Okay, turn on the Internal Tape Recorder to back up the Remembery...don't forget these ideas...don't forget these ideas...don't forget these ideas...

Mel 6-18-2001 14:28

Just a note to the frugle computer owner - the price of RAM (PC110 or PC133 SDRAM) had simply fallen so far, you can't afford not to upgrade. Just got a flyer from one of the sites I buy stuff from, they are selling 256 MEG SDRAM PC 100/133 for only $45.00 Not more then three months ago, SDRAM was going for a buck a meg, so that is down from $256.00. They are selling 128 meggers for 34.00, not quite as good a buy, but I was paying that much for 64 meggers a couple of months ago. I guess the price reflects that all the newer systems take a more expensive type RAM, and they are phasing out this type. Anyhow, all my systems take it, but I already have over 256 meg in all of them. Oh well, guess for that price I can buy a couple of spares anyhow.

Jerry Ericsson 6-18-2001 14:18

Rachel - Cool

Viv - That's a nice idea. A poem I wrote is entitled Hachiji Juugofun Sugi - the exact time the bomb fell on Hiroshima (which is the subject of the poem - sad poem). I'm planning on trying to write a haiku around the words Hanpa wa Bu (leftovers suck) - this one would be a very silly poem though. I love Japanese.

Jack - I love the page. :)

Americo - I was happy to finally see your picture. You look like one of my teachers from Jr. High. :)

Allein Allein's World 6-18-2001 13:49

Lucky you, Rachel! If I washed with just water I'd have a mob of zits slinging piercing and jabbing weapons at my face and the damage would be irrepairable! (Almost is)
Last batch came swinging Japanese Sai, and wow, they were hard to bounce! Still nursing my poor fists... (heh heh)
No prongs allowed. It's a once-a-month attack, if you women all know what I mean... *blush*

Mel, hello! Been a while since you've posted! Does the party mean you'll have writing time while you wait up for your son?

Taylor - only need pictures if Phantasium is published. Let's all think POSITIVELY and get those snapshots taken now!!!
(And shy people can post a cartoon of themselves)

Let's see. What cartoon would best describe me?
Uh, Broom Hilda? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Okay - have to go offline for a bit and then back on for some email/edits...

Good to see you back Hallee!

Jerry - laughed my head off at the ballpeen hammer part of your latest post! I'd go for a car like that. That way when I roll it down a hill it won't look any worse for wear... (kidding)

Mary - Oh, dear! I'm so sorry to hear how hard it is for you. Heartbreaking indeed. (((((HUGS FOR YOU)))). Wish there was some way to go about giving the kittens away without the mama cat hurting (or you to be reminded of that hurt). I don't think it's possible. ;o< Wish it was, very much.

Mark, where are you?











Heather 6-18-2001 13:45

Randall - Callie is the name of one of my characters. I have seen that it is the name of your dog. I always feel a little weird about characters who share names with dogs. Maybe I’ll leave it. Callie kind of suites this girl.

Mel - Hey girl :o)

Jack - The Shadows page is really neat. Thanks (hugs for you). I’m almost over the shock of seeing my face on the screen. I have felt really strange about that. I’ve never really told anyone much about how I look. I like the faceless, shapeless, voiceless net thing. Still, this is okay. I’m okay with this (smiles). It’s kind of neat.

Rhoda - There are critters and birds that love fresh seeds (grins)! Don’t give up on the garden. You could try starting the plants in the house. I think it is neat that I look the way you thought I would. Then again, you were a part of S* and I did base the physical form of Emma on me, well, sort of (smiles)!

Mary - Thank you. You are very kind (smiles).

Tania/Teekay/’Agnes - I’ll call you what ever you like, well, almost what ever you like... Yup, Miss Congeniality really busted me up. My hubby likes it when I sing that; kiss me, hug me, thing. He tends to accept the offer (grin/wink). Then again, I don’t sing it all the often. I have a wide variety of cheeky songs that I sing to him ;o) Besides, I’m a karate kid (laugh), my hubby would never try anything with me, (you mentioned a pop in the nose - smiles). Dan knows that a block can hurt as much if not more than a punch. I have done that thing where I say ‘Attack me, c’mon, c’mon, attack me, pleaseeeee’ He never wants to (laughter). He knows how evil/playful I can be. Can I cook? Well, uh, er, that could be debated;o) I’m a pretty decent cook these days, but I used to cook a lot of really bland/dull food. Dan has spent the past 17 years teaching me to cook. I think I’m getting the hang of it (lopsided grin). On the name game. I don’t think you should go with Grintch. Sounds too much like a certain tall,green, small hearted, tight shoe wearing fellow. I like the name Agnes. I think it is very pretty. I have never known an Anges/Aggie that I did not like.

Heather M - I don’t use anything on my skin. I don’t even really use soap. Yucky eh? I just wash with water. I’m kind of a natural sort. Thanks for the compliment (big, wide smiles) Gezz, this picture thing is great for the ego ;o)

Americo - I like that picture of you (smiles and hugs).

Jack - Is that a war hammer figure you are holding in your picture?

Alline - I did get the next chapters. I have them printed and will sit down with them in the next few days.

Barnanbas - I want to read the rest of your story. I’m sorry to have been so slow.

Take care all.

Rachel

Rachel 6-18-2001 13:15

What a way to wake up in the morning. At about 5:30 AM it sounded like the whole damn town blew up. That boom was followed by another, then another, then even more. Worst damn thunderstorm I have ever heard at that time in the morning. As I lay there listening to the thunder and heavy rain, I heard the unmistakable sound of hail hitting the neighbors lawn tractor that sits just outside our bedroom window. Well with noise like that, I simply had to get up. (I love to watch a good thunderstorm in action!) Seems like I have been up all day already, and it is only a little after 9:30 AM. Went outside to survey the damage, looks minimal, a few bean plants bit the dust in the garden but it was kind of soft hail. I picked up a stone that was a little over a half inch in diameter, then dropped it on the driveway and it simply splatted. Guess we were lucky it was soft, as I hate the idea of getting the car and pickup fixed, house roofed again. It has only been a year and a half since the last major hail storm. Up north of here in Bismarck ND they had the worst hail storm in the memory of most citizens just a couple of weeks ago, now you can buy a cheap car up there at most of the lots if you don't mind the look of exterior decoration by ball peen hammer. Oh well had a chance to have breakfast with the wife, something I usually miss, as I rarely rise from my bed until around 8:00 AM, and the air smells so good after a good rain, so clean and fresh. Well best sign off and get off the computer, I hear the rumbles of thunder in the distance, the weatherman says we will have a series of rain/hail storms all day. Sure glad I got the grass mowed a few days ago.

Heather, I have to get at least two more stories in **P**, and I hope everyone else submits at least that many each, we must make our anthology big enough to attract readers. Will get to work on them today, I will use my laptop if necessary, as when it storms here we usually have problems keeping electricity.

Jerry Ericsson 6-18-2001 11:44

*Mel*

Hi, All! Sun shining, a bit cooler (70's) than last week's blistery 90's...end of weather update for southern tier of New York State.

TINA: RE: letting characters breathe (NOT! yeah, me too). That's what fills most of my revision time, adding in the rest stops I never took on the first fast-paced journey through the adventure, just needing to get it all down on paper before the elusive muse slips off... RE: gardening (NOT! Black Thumbs here). You stirred some childhood memories -- ah, summer vacations at home, making the garden rounds for snacktime in the wild: pea pods, snap beans, chives, sometimes strawberries, and black raspberries in several locations! Who needed lunch??!! :-) RE: Names...yeah, I'm still trying to rename a pocket of space inhabited by sorcerers and their repressed women-folk who are protected by a natural power (earth-fire) greater than their own..."Dimension S" doesn't cut it. Need something descriptive, elusive yet alluring, older than time, beyond the shrewd perception of the menfolk - this is important to a future story about their world, where there will be upheaval of power-tyrants and a renewal of the ancient nature and balance of the place... I feel a new name almost at the tip of my tongue (*displays tongue** can anyone read it to me?) Now tell me more about "Shadow" and maybe something will come to mind to help you... :-)

BEN: RE: Titles...Titles first with me, usually they just come, sometimes they come faster than story ideas, so I save them up for future reference... :-) If a title sounds familiar or suspiciously pre-used, I check the library reference "BOOKS IN PRINT" -- I like a unique title, one that will reflect the story AND grab browsers' attention. I think titles are very important; books ARE judged first by their covers...and by their titles, by both editors/publishers and readers. A fun, title-generating exercise: choose a bunch of letters, at random, pretend they are an abbreviation for a title, and make up a word for which each letter stands (e.g. "MWOSH" could be "My Whistle Or Sue's Horse" or maybe "Metallic Warriors On Swift Hounds") and you take it from there. Keep a list of the ones you especially like - a thesaurus can help you tweak them into exactly what you want for a story. Of course, this doesn't work as well for stories needing titles, but if you like to squeeze a story idea from a title, this can be a lot of fun.

AGNES GRINTCH: Stick with Teekay! :-) Like it!!! It's unique! It's exciting!! It's...you!!!

VIV: I like your new title. :-)

JACK: I like the S* page so far. NICE pics of everyone! :-)

Here's wishing you-all a storm of passionate writing today! Mine's sort of "on hold" till after preparations for this (high school) graduation-party weekend for my son. :-)

Melanie 6-18-2001 11:42

AMERICO,
Sorry I misunderstood your post. I had completely forgotten about Strawberries** and I knew That Shadows** had already been published. In my mind that only left P** and The other one that Jack started.

Ben,
Historicals make excellent ghost stories. I think they had more ghosts back then.

I posted my last Ghost story in P** yesterday. Please let me know if it is not clear. I left a lot to the readers imagination.

Later,

Rosemary 6-18-2001 11:33

HALLEE: On a more personal note about the kittens, I miss the little buggers terribly. I even had them all named which is a big mistake because as soon as you name something it gets personal. Let's see, there was Gracie(white with tabby patches and a mask), Othello (long-haired, all black), and Speedy(short-haired tabby).

I don't know if you have ever had to find homes for kittens before or not, and I also don't know if this part will affect you the same way it affected me...but the mama cat is walking around calling for her kittens and it is breaking my heart. I have been there, wandering around looking for a little one that isn't there anymore. I can hardly look at her because I feel terrible for ripping her kittens away from her. It had to be done, I can't keep ten cats, but she doesn't know that. All she knows is that her kitties go out front in a basket and don't come back. Sighs. Just brace yourself hon...it ain't easy.

Mary 6-18-2001 11:09

Morning everyone!

AMERICO, RACHEL, JACK, ALLEIN: Lovely photos of you all and a great page to showcase your collaborative efforts. Good job.

ON TITLES: I am terrible at titles, but once in a blue moon I come up with something that just rings. My contribution to **P** is a title that means something to me, but I think it is a tad obscure for the masses to get. It is titled "Sweet Honesty", but without knowing that Sweet Honest is also the name brand of a perfume which smells exactly like Lily of the Valley, it would mean nothing to the reader. That was a working title that I still need to replace.

ON KITTIES: My favorite cat had her kittens two weeks before the adopted cat did. I ended up with seven in all. The first batch are six weeks old and totally adorable. I put flyers with their pictures on the post office, drug store and laundromat bulletin boards along with signs at each end of our street and in front of the house on this past Friday. Three of the seven kittens found homes this weekend. Good happy homes with young girls who hand picked their new pet from a wicker basket lined with a baby blanket. I gave a free food dish and four days worth of food with each one.

We have decided to keep the last kitten from that first batch. A long-haired tabby female with gorgeous yellow eyes, so we only have to find homes for three more kitties, which aren't ready to leave their mother yet. I am sure it is going to prove more difficult to place this second litter, as they are the ugliest kittens I have ever seen (textbook examples of why inbreeding is frowned upon).

ON TEEKAY: I like that you use this name instead of your real name. Besides...even if you started to use Tania, I would instantly translate that to Teekay in my mind.

Giddyup


Mary 6-18-2001 10:58

Laura:
I'm sorry, I missed your story because I was so excited at posting mine. Selfish of me. Yours is fantastic. See other comments in the workbook critique, but it's amazing. Scroll down and read Laura's posting folks, or you are going to miss something.

I'll read the workbook more. I'm not good at criticism yet but I'm learning better ideas on how to do it as my work is critiqued. Laura's story makes you want to know more and gets your imagination working. I want to know what the children look like. I want to know how old they really are. I want to know who the leaders are among the children. I want to know more...hurry up Laura, post more this week. I'll keep an eye out for it.

Viv 6-18-2001 10:56

Hey guys:
Got the title for my story today. Urban Legands in Japanese translates as Toshi Densetsu. I'll stick a star beside it (Toshi Densetsu*) and then translate it as Old Tales in the New (Modern?) City. Really, it pretty well describes what happened. Tokyo suburbs grew up fast around the rice fields and these are the last of the family rice plots. They'll be taxed out of existance in the next generation.

Got to go walk dog!

Viv 6-18-2001 9:03

I read that the Strawberries Club is giving a party on the Moon, my favorite holiday resort and where I write my best poems, wrapped in what remains of an old flag Neil Amstrong forgot here in 1969. Respect the wish of an old cat and go picknicking somewhere else. The Moon is mine!



Jon 6-18-2001 7:31

Jack,

Thanks for a lovely page. We are all very well, and Rachel and Allein are really very beautiful. It's a pleasure to have such fine collaborators!

Americo 6-18-2001 7:29

Jack: if we want to contribute to P*** we gotta use a photograph for a bios page
No thanks, I do not photograph well at all...

taylor 6-18-2001 5:43

Morning all! Hope everyone had a great fathers' day.

BEN: I stress, worry, and fret over titles long after a manuscript is complete. And the ones I come up with still suck. I don't do well with titles.

VIV: Oh, I'm so sorry - that is terrible - I don't even know what to say. (((hug))))

RHODA: The writing is going well. It took me a full week to write two chapters, but I spent a lot of my time researching renal failure - finally found what I was looking for, and as soon as I catch up from all the posts last night, I'll get back to it.

MARY: My kittens are driving me insane. I actually have to lock them and the mama up at night because last week, twice, I woke up at about 3 in the morning with all six of them sitting on my bed, staring at me. Now they're maniacs - all over the place. (One is gorgeous, though - dark gray with dark gray eyes - me thinks Conan's already picked one to keep). (sigh) How are your wee ones?

AMERICO: You look exactly like I pictured you - very unusual for me.

Okay - I'm off to write. Have a great Monday all!


Hallee 6-18-2001 5:04

p.s. and, what I really meant for Allein is whether she wanted me to use the picture she had in the bios page or a more up to date picture. As I said earlier, I may not be firing on all cylinders at the moment. Take care everyone.

6-18-2001 5:03

Sorry: I should have just said Allein. I was referring to her in her Heather mode.


Oh, also, I will be setting up a PHP page when I get a chance where everybody can enter their details and picture and so forth and it will generate a bios page with the information included. That, however, is far far far down on my list of priorities.

Jack 6-18-2001 4:54


WAIT a minute! I forgot that Allein's name is also Heather!
I think Jack must mean Allein (Heather) and the picture is for the 'Shadows' page!

Yeah, head examined. That's next.
Hi Taylor, have a productive time.

Heather 6-18-2001 3:19

Jack, do you mean a picture for the bio page? I'll send you one via email now!
I must have been daydreaming and missed the picture exchange!!!

Oh, and Laura - sorry - no can read. No time.

Heather 6-18-2001 3:16

hi everyone

may not be in for awhile...heap of short stories to write, and novel

Will drop in from time to time
Good luck with writing

taylor 6-18-2001 3:14

Teekay: In our emails I almost forget to call you by your real name! Guess it's because I've been calling you Teekay longer than I have Tania.

Rachel! 'Miss Congeniality' - my husband bought that for me for Mother's Day (loved it) instead of 'Thunderheart' because they didn't have it in-store. I have a copy of 'Thunderheart', but it's got commercials and the beginning is cut off. If ANY of you haven't seen Thunderheart, DO! I highly recommend it. Very few people that I know have seen it, but of those that have, they agree unanimously that it's an incredible film. (Oh, and I guess I don't have to mention that Val Kilmer is in it)??? Do I? *knuckle biting*
And Rachel, you take a very awesome photo. You simply glow! (All the skin creams in the world don't make my face glow like that - I look like I'm sweaty instead... of course yours is probably your natural 'glow' and not cream-induced! Fudge and pooh. Although, I did glow when pregnant. Sorry, folks, NOT going there just for the great skin and nails) ;O)

ON PHANTASIUM: The project is open to ANYONE who would like to contribute more stories. I won't close the project until August 1, 2001. (Jack's timetable willing) Please keep in mind that stories should be as close to polished as possible. Any changes and so forth can be re-posted, space allowing.(You can email the new version to me directly if you would rather do so)
I will be copying each story into my computer, and doing the edits with each collaborator by email so that we can work together to achieve the most polished and professional work. I would like to submit the finished manuscript(s) to publishers, but we need more stories first. There may be a few stories that will not make it into the ms, so remember: We want the manuscript in tightest form and with only the best of the collection. I have pledged to be honest and fair. If one of your stories doesn't make the cut, it is in no way a personal affront.
I will likely change the title from Phantasium as well, just to let you know. We can vote on the title I have in mind later.

And now, without further ado,
I'm signing off for the night.
The novel beckons.




Heather 6-18-2001 3:11

Hello everyone: Yes, I will be working on getting the Workbook up and running correctly first. I will also be working on the Shadow page. I have more or less a place holder there now, but have plans to provide a somewhat nice rotating flash slider that rotates from one pictures to the next to the next. The only picture I do not have is one for Heather. If you can send the one you would like me to use I will get to work on that after I get to the Workbook, get the thing functioning and then send out the email to everyone to resubmit for a login and password.



Today was taken up with church, visiting my cousin again and taking care of details for finishing up our bid for Westercon 56 . If I had not mentioned before, I will be the Vice Chairman for the convention if we win. It will be a 1700 to 2500 person convention taking place in the seattle area.

Jack Beslanwitch Shadow In A Dream web page 6-18-2001 2:54


I'm gone

Ben 6-18-2001 2:51

No Laura, but if you're on at the same time I am, why don't we see if we can go into the chat room?

Ben 6-18-2001 2:42

Ummm, I guess no one saw, but I also posted a short story (that may turn into a longer work) in the wb earlier. I STILL have not gotten so much as a 'Nice to see you posted' about it.

Have I suddenly disappeared into the twilight zone?

Laura 6-18-2001 2:40

Ben


TEEKAY: I'm gonna immerse myself.

I was thinking about this counterfieter--did I spell that right?--during the second world war, maybe in France, maybe in Poland, painting great works of art for a crooked German officer who is supposed to be sending original paintings to Germany for Herr Goering...I haven't got enough info on my Mau Maus to do it justuce yet...and being half Jewish he's condemned anyway.

Now, reading what I just wrote, some of you might think it's stupid to want to give out a plotline like that--copyrights and all that other crap--but that's because I don't care about that sort of stuff. What I write is gonna be different than what anyone else is gonna write, because what I write always changes anyway. And if someone else writes it, that doesn't mean it's gonna get published: publishing is a crapshoot I think, a game of hit and miss. And besides, what if I want to write a story based on the life of a famous painter born in 1842 and dying in 1926, kinda like Monet? He goes to England during the Franco-Prussian war, or maybe he serves and gets sent to Morroco? He has a wife, five kids, and then has a mistress and his wife kills herself because of the mistress?

AMERICO: Sorry I missed the "Strawberries and the Moon" compilation. I don't know if I'll submit anything to **P** because I don't really do ghost stories. But I'll gladly hang around to see what you've got coming up. I like to write historical fiction because I like to delve into that sort of stuff--I love researching things.

But now I have to go to bed. I'm bagged. I'm getting up too early and staying up too late. Of course, I won't go to bed right now, because I wanna see if I can come up with a good opening line for my new story, a "Bombs bursting in air, and the rockets red glare" kind of thing, which of course could be an air raid in 1943, or Bastille Day in Paris, 1869.



Ben 6-18-2001 2:38

*Tina*

Hiya!

Rhoda, did you soak the seeds before planting? That helps speed germination, especially if the soil tends to dry quickly.
For the tomatoes and squash, are they hilled and mulched? Pile dirt up around them, leaving a depression around the stalk, so that water concentrates on the roots of the plant and doesn’t run off. Mulch them to slow dehydration.
Wow, I suddenly realise how much I miss my vegetable garden. Peas are my favourite, a sentimental throwback to when I was wee and my grandpa used to take me out to the garden (BIG farm garden) to pick peas. One pod for the bucket, one for us, one for the bucket, one for us… My dad was a potatoe man, and kohlrabi. I’d always go with him to dig up fresh spuds for dinner, to be barely steamed and served with butter. Kohlrabi was picked young and eaten raw. Mmmmmmm. A good day for memories of them both.

I love my cable connection. As Jerry said, it’s fast and I’m always on-line, ready to do whatever I want without any extra cost. The bonuses, at least with @home.com, is that I can have 5 e-mail addresses, and 5 web pages, no extra cost. My father-in-law and sister-in-law don’t have computers, but get e-mail through us.

Teekay, the sun Heather is talking about would be the same one that gave me a burn yesterday! Spent all day at a street festival, and despite liberal sunscreen still came out rather red. But what fun! Good food, good music and dance, good shopping!

Sounds like I’d better get my a** in gear if I’m gonna put anything in *P*. Nothing like a deadline to get Tina motivated…

And titles just happen. Usually I discard several before the right one happens, but I don’t actually think about it much. Now NAMES are another matter entirely. Like the name of the world where ‘Shadow’ takes place. Absolutely nothing has ever come to me, despite concentrated thought about the problem. Something neat, like Ba’jor, or simple, like Pern or Dune. Or after an old Earth god, like Mars and Jupiter? I just don’t know….

Okay, I’m rambling so I’m gonna go.
I’ll ramble in my world of…. ?




Tina 6-18-2001 2:32

**Teekay**

RACHEL: By golly, if I weren't already married! Ummm, can you cook?

Saw Miss Congeniality and thought it was fantastic. I'm always singing that song to hubby and he's pretty sick of it by now. If I try it one more time I may just get bopped in the nose.
"You want to punch me, you want to kick me, you want to pinch me, you want to murder me."
Catchy.

RHODA: Maybe beans and corn need longer to germinate?

I've just realized that I'm the only one here who doesn't use her real name. Well it's the initials of my real name.
Do you think I ought to post under my real name or should I just keep using Teekay? Voting booths are now open.
Signed
Agnes Grintch.

Teekay 6-18-2001 1:36

Well with cable, you are "always on" so there is no dial-up problem, no busy phone lines, no wait. The speed downloading is between ten and one hundred times faster, so in the long run, it is much better. There are folks that setup their own servers on cable service, and use their computers to store other folks files and such, it is just so much better. My son had it for quite some time when they lived in Bismarck, now they have moved, DSL is available, and they have that. He says the DSL is much better, as with cable service, it does slow down when lots of folks are online at the same time with the same cable service, however with DSL that doesn't happen. I guess DSL would be better, then of course, a T-1 line would be even better, but much more expensive. Our local ISP is going to offer DSL, right now they offer a local network connection with their server giving T-1 service, but it is so expensive only some local businesses can afford the hookup, as you have to by both ends of the hookup, at about $300.00 per side for a total cost of six hundred bucks, then additional fees for setup and so forth bringing the hookup fee up to eight hundred bucks, a bit stiff, then service charge of around seventy bucks per month. They say the phone company will be offering DSL soon, with a minimal setup fee and only the cost of our side of the hookup equipment, so that sounds do'able when they get it set up.

Jerry Ericsson 6-18-2001 0:03

Heather - well for me it would be a bargain, you see my mom is getting on in age, and wants us to keep the phone line free in case she needs us, so we pay for a second phone line, that cost us an additional $28.00 per month, bringing our total bill for internet well over the $50.00's it would cost for cable, so I would jump at a chance of getting faster service AND cheaper. Oh well, it is but a pipe dream as the cable company has said there are not enough subscribers here to merit the cost of the equipment.

Sometimes living in paradise has an additional cost that is not obvious to the passer by.

Jerry Ericsson 6-17-2001 23:55

**Mary**


RHODA: Sounds like a water shortage or varmints.

Mary 6-17-2001 23:35

Hello all you beautiful people.

JERRY: Other than speed, what benefits are there to a cable connection? I am happy with my 56K...I click on the link to the Notebook, I blink, and there it is. Is cable more reliable? Now THAT would be a step-up.

HEATHER: Wow...that **P** sure went fast. I thought it would be open for a year. I don't know why in the world I thought that. If it takes approximately a year for one person to write a book, it should only take 5 people two and a half months...less with more contributors. I just didn't see it coming.

RACHEL: Yes, you are gorgeous, but I already knew that! ;-)

HOWARD: Thinking of you.

LITTER: Did you get the kava kava info I sent you?

SHORTIE NIGHT TOPIC FOR THIS THURSDAY: FRIENDS/FRIENDSHIPS







Mary 6-17-2001 23:33

**Rhoda**

When you can't get to the Notebook for a couple of days, it is hard to catch up.

RACHEL,

You look just like I have imagined you. That doesn't often happen with Internet friends.

HEATHER,

I'm glad you got back with us and got your Internet connection problems taken care of.

JACK,

I am so sorry to hear of your loss. It has been a rough year for you. My prayers are with you.

HALLEE,

How is the inspirational romance going? You are a virtual workhorse and oh, how I admire you. Best of luck with the new project.

Well, what have I been doing when I could have been working on my new novel or when I could have been here posting? I have dug a garden and planted it. Something is really strange though. I planted corn and beans and they never came up. I planted again using different seed and I am afraid the same is happening. It has been three days and still no sprouts. The tomato and squash plants I put in thrived last week and now they are wilting one by one. Perhaps I had better go back to writing!



Rhoda 6-17-2001 23:18

Jack - Thanks for letting me know that you got the pic. I always worry that things I post will get lost. Yes, I also hope that PA will pick up the pace with delivery time. I ordered copies last week. The person I spoke to, told me that it shouldn't take longer than three weeks. I will let you know if that is a fact.

Jon - Pussy is a queen.

Viv - Gezz (grin/blush) Thanks;o) Now if only that were all it took to sell books... Hum, a million copies? That sounds like a good thing!

Americo - I have booked my trip to the moon. I look forward to my appointment. On a more serious note, I accept. Thanks for the compliments (smiles and hugs).

Heather - Can you make it to the moon? Cause'... It's a marvelous night for a moondance...

Mary Lou - Best thing to do is to contact PA and ask them. Each situation is unique. I would hate to tell you one thing, then have you experience another. Write to them, ask any questions that you like. I think it is always best to get things direct from the source when you can. In this case, you can (smiles and a hug).

Americo - Yup, its the Berne convention.

Teekay - I'm 32 year old. I like hot coffee, good conversation and... Uh, never mind (winks). Anyway, I'm just a kid (big, wide grins)! So, yah think I'm goregeous. Hum, have you seen Miss Congeniality? If you have, then... "You think I'm gorgeous, you want to hug me, you want to hold me, you want to kiss me" said with my very best Jersey accent.

Okay, I better go. I have to do the kids to bed thing.

Take care all.

Rachel

Rachel 6-17-2001 22:12

**Teekay**


Hi All,

JERRY: I did have something to say. I only pointed out that it was of no interest :-)
You see even if I said I had nothing to say, well that would be obviously wrong because simply by writing that sentence is an affirmination that I do indeed have something to say. However, by pointing out that it was not of 'interesting' content well then, tell me, are you bored with reading this yet :-D

RANDALL: As I have pointed out to JERRY in a very gentle way, you must read ALL the words. ALL the words I say.
Now had I read your post not reading all the words I would have come up with:
"Good God we honked the horn on the petty officer After he ran up the gangway."
HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA
I've put a touch of port in your coffee this time. For medicinal purposes you understand.

JERRY: He sure sounds like an interesting book character. They sure don't seem to make 'em like that any more. Bit of a shame really. Or not. I don't quite know, I'll have to think about it.

RACHEL: You are gorgeous!!! You remind me a lot of myself HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA, I have sunglasses like that. :-)
When I scrolled up, I noticed it was JACK'S post and then I saw your picture and thought Jack had shaved his beard off. HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA oh dear, it's gonna be one of those days.

HEATHER: Sun? Sun? What is this sun of which you speak? ~Brrrrr~

BEN: I usually get the title at the end of a story. I start with some hokey pokey thing, but at the end 'usually' the right title comes to me.
And yes, if you're lookingvat selling your work the title is very important because that is what the editor or whoever is reading it sees first and if it doesn't sound interesting chances are he/she won't read the story.
I also think they should be relevant to the story, unlike JERRY's 'How to make a million dallars" or whatever the title of that story was he posted which had nothing what so ever to do with making a million dollars.

JERRY: You sly old fox you :-D

BEN: I think it's time you immersed yourself in another story.

AMERICO: Ummmm, isn't RACHEL over the age of 33?

Re: Title copyright:
I've seen plenty of books at the library with the same title by different authors.
Also, I named one of my short stories 'Saving Grace' and a week later in the video shop I noticed a new release video of the same name and I definitely didn't copy that (I'd never seen it before) and I'm not changing the name of my story because it's just perfect for it. Unless someone threatened to sue me for $ 456724527528:00, then I might think about it.
But I wouldn't be happy!

posting...posting....



Teekay 6-17-2001 21:09

Ben,

I would like to clarify that when I mentioned deadlines, I was referring to "Strawberries and a Moon". That project was closed on the 7th June 2000.

I believe that Phantasium is still open to new collaborators.

Americo 6-17-2001 19:52

I'm not an expert on copyright, but I know what it consists of. You fill in a form with your personal data, the title and a very brief summary of the contents of your book. You also deliver a copy of the work (in paper, in a disk or both). The case of the writer who had to get another title because someone had already registered the title he wanted to give his book shows that titles are under the same protection as the contents. At least that's how I interpret it.

I have read in the Internet that titles are not protected by copyright. I don't think that's right. But I am not a lawyer, and it may be that the USA copyright is different from here. My impression is that copyright legislation tends to be international, at least for the countries that signed the convention of Berne (or was it Geneve?).

In any case, I cannot imagine any serious Author using, maliciously and with dishonest intentions, something which he did not create himself. So the title issue seems to me, above all, a question of common sense and morality.



Americo 6-17-2001 19:38

Okay,
I just went back and read some more, the deadline is posted and I won't have to sneak around. I guess when I read that Ben wouldn't be allowed to join, it surprised me.

Rosemary--Again 6-17-2001 18:46

Hello,

HEATHER,
Is **P** colsed? I read all posts and don't remember seeing notice of an ending time. I thought Jack was going to rework the site and I was waiting for that to post my second story. I'll go ahead and post it in a few minutes, (have to go to my sister's computer) try to sneak it through barred doors.

ALL,
I have definitely been told a number of times by different authorities that titles cannot be copyrighted. Maybe it's different where Americo is.

bye,


Rosemary 6-17-2001 18:42

Rachel: Received the page proofs for Tarnished Honor. How long did it take "your" book to get into print after you returned them to PubAm?

Thanks.

Mary Lou

Mary Lou 6-17-2001 18:17

RANDALL

From left field, so what else is new, here are the lyrics from a Doors song. I quoted from this a couple of months ago. Without the music, songs like this are little stories. Inspiration that may tweak ones imagination, toward a title or a novel length story.

Not much else going on at the house today. Pretty laid back, hot as the dickens outside.

I looked at the lyrics to several songs by the Byrds, but could not pin down what I wanted. There are many, many influences that would help a writer in title selection.

How many titles could you arrive at from the song listed below? Let the publisher worry 'bout the legalities. :-) I mean, THEY have to do something to earn their cut, huh?

Randall


The WASP (Texas Radio and the Big Beat)
The Doors
copyright The Doors Music Company ASCAP


I wanna tell you about Texas radio and the big beat.
Comes out of the Virginia swamps
Cool and slow with plenty of precision
With a backbeat narrow and hard to master.
Some call it heavenly in its brilliance
Others mean and rueful of the Western dream.
I love the friends that I have gathered together on this thin raft
We have constructed pyramids in honor of our escaping.
This is the land where the pharoah died.

The negroes in the forest, brightly feathered
They're saying "Forget the night
Live with us in forests of azure
Out here in the perimeter there are no stars
Out here we are stoned, imaculate."

Listen to this, I'll tell you about heartache.
Tell you about the heartache and loss of God.
I'll tell you 'bout the hopeless and
meager food for souls forget.
I'll tell you 'bout the maiden with wraught-iron soul.

I tell you this,
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn.

I tell you about Texas radio and the big beat.
Soft driven slow and mad like some new language.

Now listen to this, I'll tell you about Texas.
I'll tell you about Texas radio.
I'll tell you about the hopeless night
wandering in the Western dream.
I'll tell you about a maiden with wraught-iron soul.




Randall 6-17-2001 17:59

Ben,
Money isn't important on summer vacation. Neither are big trips. It's dumb stuff that's important. The kids understand when you get laid off and there isn't any money for fancy trips. Trust me, I've raised two completely broke most the time. They've been really nice when we talked it over. We sat down and I had THEM make a list of stuff they wanted to do. I told them to get creative or else. They came up with stuff like sleep late, walks, paint rocks, tie dye, baltik, oil painting (but that was too expensive) so I got cheap water colors and nice fancy paper. We took the train to Enoshima (the beach a half an hour away by train that is dirty and polluted and not nice for swimming) We tried to paint pictures of the sun as it set but the colors swam by sooooo fast. We had to admit it really taught us a lot about how hard it is to paint.

Just make sure to take your time to get to know each kid really really well. That is the pay off for not having work.

We're loosing our job too. 14 months before retirement. Wow. What a kick in the pants for 20 years of work. I'll loose mine with my husband because I can't stay here. Please repeat these words to me as I tell my kids that they can't go to college anymore. It won't be so bad for the little one but the big one will be in her junior year. Maybe she can get a really decent loan, but first we have to kill off our savings. That won't be hard!

Viv 6-17-2001 17:33

Guess what folks! I've already decided to change that title! Urban Legands will be in Japanese. It won't translate exactly but I'm going to find the right shade of meaning in Japanese. Fitting huh! Also fun. I love having a lot of languages to play with because it adds to the fun. Japanese is cool because it has a lot of little shades of meaning for each word. That is why Bunraku, Hiku and simple free verse sound better in Japanese.

Gotta go to work. It's 6:21AM! I'm late.....

Viv 6-17-2001 17:25

Now Americo, that is something I did not know. I was under a certain impression that titles (especially one-word titles) were not subject to copyright laws in the same way that the story itself is.

And now, calling all ghost story writers! Grab your pens and write one last, mind-numbing story for P**, for very shortly the project will have to come to a close, as Americo has decided to begin a new project in the near future. (Ahem, yes, and I too, shall have to write one or two more for the collection before it closes!)
Do not rush the writing of your stories, but do, please do, gather your thoughts and get them posted!
The date of August 1, 2001 will be the (tentative) deadline for all P** stories. Of course, I will have to ask Jack!

I hope you are feeling a little better today Jack, and that you will have an abundance of strength when you need it.
Blessings heaped on you and your loved ones!

Ben - titles, well, they always just sort of 'arrive' for me. Sometimes they arrive as I've just begun writing the story/novel, sometimes with just working out the concept/theme the title pops into mind. Other times I have the story part-finished or fully finished before the title comes to me. Once I got all the way through re-reading the story once before the title arrived. I'm not sure what I'd do if my titles didn't come so easily. Perhaps I'd take a phrase that I particularly liked in the story and use part of that. But most often the title sums up the essence of the story. That's the goal, so I hear. ;o) Sorry to hear of your woes, Ben. Hoping you pull through as unscathed as possible.

Which reminds me - here's a neat site. Wondering how original your work is? Even if you just want to check a few sentences (or even a title), go to the link, type in what you want to check, and you'll get a reply in your email! The sources (I think) are also listed in case of the work not being original.
I don't know about site security, but I'm going to try just a sentence or two. Not from my novel, of course...

I got word of the link from the Writer's Digest newsletter this week.

Ta ta! And Happy Father's Day again.

Heather Link 6-17-2001 17:25

Hello. everybody! And happy Sunday to all the living. As for the dead, they are in peace and in our hearts. They are well.

A New Yorker I spoke to on Thursday explained to me that Man is intrinsically good, otherwise, with all the stress we can all imagine in Manhattan, there would be much more criminality there. Convincing!

But Man can also be evil. I am a terrible sinner. But who knows if I will become a saint one day (if I work very, very hard)? My worst sins are lazyness and a tendency to get angry. My main virtues... well, I cannot see any... But I probably have some virtues. I cannot see them now but perhaps tomorrow I'll discover them. Or next month. It's not easy to know oneself. We must think about the saint and the sinner that co-exist in each of us and in the people we know/knew. "Nosce te ipsum", know yourself (Socrates). Well, it's much easier to know the others, or at least to think we know the others. I'd rather write about my neighbours...

Ben: It's a pity you went away for a while. During that time some of us wrote a novel and a collection of short stories. The first has just been published; the second is a work in progress and closed for further collaboration (we respect deadlines here). But you (and everyone) will have a chance to write wonderful things in the months to come. Just stay tuned and keep posting. And start studying yourself and the others. You'll love this project.

PS. After deep study, I'm happy to inform all the Notebookers that Rachel has been selected the best collaborative spirit in the premises. This is a remarkable feat, as she was also the Secretary for S*. After having proved that she possesses great talent as a writer and great qualities as a friend, she will be appointed Secretary for "Strawberries and a Moon" in a ceremony to take place... in the Moon. Everybody invited for the party. Heather will be the guest of honour.

PPS. Heather: titles, and even shades of colours, can be the object of copyright. I know an author that had to find a different title when his book was already been printed. The title he wanted for his book had been used by someone else and he did not know it.

Americo 6-17-2001 15:55

Hey!

Good morning Ben!

Titles for your works..... Kick out the jams and tune in....the radio that is. Research songs, it's fun, entertaining and good for ones soul. Rock, country all good. Mostly rock though. Country music, though they have managed to elevate the lyrics in the last decade, are usually a parody. "If I said you had a beautiful body, would you hold it against me...." kinda thing. I enjoy "reading songs" listening to the words. Yes it is another persons work but there is nothing wrong with gathering ideas. And it seems rock, serious artists anyway, put more of a message in the song. Honestly, read Bob Dylan music for instance. :-) (Grin) Ah, perhaps we should exclude Bobby Darin's "She wore an itsy bitsy, teenie wennie, yellow poka dot bikini....." which was a hit in the 50's. (Well, how would you spell "poka dot?")

I wrote a book several years ago about ....well, never mind. :-) The title, THE SOUND OF YOUR VOICE CALLING was "borrowed" from an 80's Genesis/Phil Collins song.

Late at night when you call my name
The only sound you'll hear
Is the sound of your voice calling
Calling for me.

Not sure of the song title but the verse is 99 per cent correct, Annnnnnnnnnnnd not sure of the legalities, but on the title page I gave the band proper and full credit. If I ever decide to submit, I'll let the publisher worry ‘bout legal aspects. (Randall writes for fun!) I heard a song by the Byrds recently, last week sometime. It was a late 60's song and was stunning in lyrics and message. Will look it up as soon as I finish this and post it. The 60's music is a gold mine, that is GOLD MINE! Of titles and ideas.

At least that is my opinion Ben.

It's kinda weird really, searching for a title. It's only a word or words, and we are surrounded by words on a daily basis. It is the RIGHT combination of words writers seek. And I've seen some really stupid titles on novels that were real big.

Randall

PS.... ATTENTION SF writers!!! URGENT!!!! 8:00 PM Central Standard Time. Discovery Channel for STORMS. Bring pen and pencil and notebook. Or tape it. About storms that might effect the earth from space. Be there or be square! :-)

Randall 6-17-2001 13:40

Hey there: Yeah, I've been lurking about. Rather bored with everything I've been doing and reading. Must be the lay off. I phoned the mill yesterday to hear the taped message as to whether I'd be working this Monday, and they said, maybe Wednesday. Oh happy day...and whoopee sh*t. If it were not for the fact that I was getting holiday at the end of the month, we'd all ready be screwed. Now it's just the holidays that are screwed. I can live with it, but the kids might be a little choked at the idea of a do nothing summer.

But I finished editing my novella. Now I'm gonna send it down under if I don't run out of printer cartridge. It might be a little late if I do...I sent a stroy out on Friday that Kitty looked at and gave me some suggestions for. But, instead of subtracting on the wordcount, I ended up adding about five or six hundred.

I was watching something on the Impressionists the last week or two ago. I didn't realize how much I really liked those guys. Got my head going in all sorts of different directions again. It doesn't seem to take much to get an idea these days.

I have a question. How does everyone come up with titles for their stories. Personally, I have Bartlett's quotattions, and I take a quick skim through that, looking for something that might go along with the subject, or theme, and then work out from there. Some titles just come to me.

And do you pick the title first, or last, or is it even a part of the process? Sometimes the titles suggest themselves to me, and I run with them. The Iconoclast was a title that was suggested to me after my mother gave me an icon that was in the family since the second world war. It came from Eastern Europe somewhere near Khazikstahn, and seeing it brought all these words associated with Icons. Iconoclast stuck, and the story worked its way through that word. Tarot Cards and Tea Leaves was about a psychic that used to live in the neighbourhood.

And are titles important to the story? I just threw that out there because, like I said, I'm bored.

AMERICO: What is this series you're thinking about? I'm curious. And can I...I mean if you think I'd be all right...history? Even sci-fi...do I sound too desperate here...I'd better go.

Ben

Ben 6-17-2001 12:34

Jerry: Even with access to cable internet in my area, I won't fork over the $40 a month (even with free hookup, which is offered non-stop around here). I'll stick to my 56K thanks. Not that I wouldn't mind a faster connection on occasion, but I have enough bills to worry about! My cable bill is already collosal.

Top of the mornin' to all, and
a very wonderful Father's Day!

:o)

Heather 6-17-2001 10:58

Hi Rachel: You look nice in your picture. With a smile like that on a book, you could sell a million copies.

Jack: There are a lot of things a person is helpless to fix in this world. I wish it weren't so, but it is. I think the best thing to think about is the relief your cousin must be feeling right now. I don't think he'd want you to be sad, just glad for his release.

Heather: Thanks for the sending the heat my way! We had hot rain today! I hope it's a hot rain day again tomorrow. It's kind of fun to walk in.

Gotta' get some sleep. Night all.

Viv 6-17-2001 10:54

DAD BLAST IT! I wish I could even GET cable internet service! I would pay $50.00 bucks a month for it would it be available. (That's what our cable company charges for it where it is available) I called them about cable service and they told me we lived in too small a community for them to make installation of the hardware profitable. Profit is, of course, the name of the game so I guess I will plunk along at 56K until someone offers DSL at a reasonable rate. It is available here for $800.00 set up fee and $64.00 a month, which leaves it not an option based on my social security check.

Jerry Ericsson 6-17-2001 10:09

Wow!!!
But you should see Pussy.
Jon

Jon 6-17-2001 8:13

Hello all: Still a bit sidetracked with thoughts of my cousin and occasional wonderings if there was anything I could have done to prevent it, followed short steps after with the realization that no - Bud would have had to wanted the help for me to give it. Each of us have our own demons and our steps to walk. We cannot prevent certain kinds of self destruction and we cannot prevent the world from visiting its own kind of meyham on those hapless creatures who are prone to its victimization.


Rachel: I did indeed get your picture and will begin work on the Shadows page. Just hoping that PublishAmerica is a little more prompt with others on getting copies of the Shadows in a Dream to them than they have to me. Oh, well, we will see.


BTW, for those wondering what Rachel looks like:





Jack Beslanwitch 6-17-2001 2:08


you got that right, I never did like the old fart all that much, and he was a horriable thief too, always stealing anything that wasn't tied down. One time he stold a bunch of my dad's tools, then one day, his well broke down, and dad went to help pull it and fix it. When the old fart pulled out the big pipe wrench that he took from dad a few years earlier, dad saw it and cornered him on it. "Look, it has my initials stamped right in it!" Dad said, pointing to where he stamped his initials GE on the tool. "Hell that's Generel Electric!" the old fart replied. Dad took the tool home with him anyhow, as it was his.

Jerry Ericsson 6-17-2001 1:13

Jerry: But he sure had a shitty sense of humour.

Heather 6-17-2001 0:57

Viv, ever been to Michigan?
The weather there is the same as the weather where I am. Or, let's see...

nah, I'm not going there. I'm pooped from the sun and the heat, though it wasn't so smouldering today that I lit on fire or anything. Managed to walk far enough to mow my lawn. Made dinner for seven, (company!) and played a little soccer. (Pardon me - football for all of our European NB friends)
And now what I wish more than anything, is to

hmmmm.

on second thought, I'd better not hatch any wishes at this time. I wouldn't want to wish myself into anti-wish-establishmentarianism. Then I'd want to wish myself back and have none left, and learn that, as a matter of fact, there never were any wishes. What would Sartre [sic] say to that...? I'm sure he'd wish me a...

*chortle chortle*

Okay, too much sun, that's my excuse. Really.

Happy and productive writing to all,
and an editing nip to boot.



Heather 6-17-2001 0:56

Debra - I think there was just a little bit of good in the old fart, at his wife's funeral, I heard him say to her (body) "I should have treated you better." She proceeded him by about a year. When she was gone, he went to pieces and entered a nursing home, where he withered away.

Jerry Ericsson 6-17-2001 0:50

Now Teekay.........you can lie to your friends.....and I can lie to mine. :-) But let's not lie to each other! I know you have SOMETHING to say.............:-))))))))))

Did I ever....say girl, seen any 'roos lately? Tried to smuggle one on my ship one time in Sydney. The officer of the deck eyed my bulging coat.

"Randall, I know you're not expecting. And I never saw you hop around like that. So....take the kangroo back where you got it.

Goodnight Teekay!

MORE COFFEE DEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Randall

Randall 6-16-2001 23:17

Randall

Good evening friends

Some interesting comments on what must be one of the most beneficial (?) perhaps interesting species God placed on the planet, maggots, the larvae of flies. And yes in the Navy we called the mobile canteens, "roach coaches" as well. One of the most hilarious conversations I witnessed in the Navy was a rather terse conversation between an officer of the deck and a highly agitated "roach coach" owner operator.

We were home ported in the Phillippines, Subic Bay (Ah, sweet Olongapo) tied up at a pier. A Filipino owned canteen rolled to the gangway about mid-morning, honked the horn, then proceeded to open for business. Sailors have been known to eat anything, but some of the "lunches" on these wagons were of a highly questionable substance. Still, all is grist for the old mill! :-)

The petty officer on the quarterdeck announced on the ships PA. "Now hear this. Now hear this. The mobile roach coach is on the pier."

The Filipino owner heard the announcement, aghast that his cherished, albeit, dinery on wheels should be called such. In the colorful language of persons speaking a second language the conversation went something like this. After he ran up the gangway.

"I no have roaches on my canteen."

The young, squeaky clean officer reassuared him. "Just a slang expression sir. I'll clear it up."

"I no have roaches on my canteen. We clean, we wash, no roaches. Sailor wrong, no roaches. Clean food. American food, all clean. Hamburgers, hotdogs, sandwhiches, no roaches, we cook no roaches."

"I understand, no roaches on your canteen." The young ensign tried to ease the man off his quarterdeck fearful the ships captain, or worse the executive officer would happen on the scene. (Ship Captains were, as a rule good mild mannered men, usually very friendly with the crew. Now, Executive Officers, the number 2 guy, were "Hatchet Men" and feared like a condemned man fears the executioner.

About this time an old moss covered Boatswain Mate strolled around the corner. "Permission to go to the roach coach sir." Then Boats, grinning wildly, saluted the flag aft, the officer of the deck, the canteen owner and strolled casually down the gangway.

The young watch officer could only stare blankly, lost in the decision making process. Nothing in his naval reserve training had prepared him for this. Typhoons, fully trained. Weapons, trained. Ship steering, ditto. Navigation, no problem. Now his naval career was sinking, all because the petty officer of the watch wanted to play a joke. How could a career oriented naval officer handle a mad, mobile canteen operator without getting other, higher ranking officers involved? This would not look good on his service record!

Halfway down the gangway the WW II Boatswain Mate turned and hollared at the Filipino.

"Hell come on Juan, gonna open for busisness or not? We know their ain't no roaches on your #@%&*^! Canteen. Alive anyway."

Situation resolved.

Minutes later the red-faced officer turned to me. "Randall, from this point forward....if you ever call that thing down there a roach coach on my quarterdeck, I'll have you cleaning heads till you muster out!!!

"YES SIR."

Good night everyone.

Randall




Randall 6-16-2001 23:05

I mean the worst thing I have ever heard.


6-16-2001 22:29

Jerry:

If my husband had pulled a dirty trick on me like that, his funeral would have been the following weekend. That is the WORST

Debra 6-16-2001 22:28

Two days of sunshine, two days of lawn mowing! Did mine yesterday, then today the daughter sort of hints that her little push mower would have a hard time cutting her lawn which is huge. Soo I was off again driving my little garden tractor across town to mow her tall grass. She was right, I don't think her little mower had a chance. All that cool rain we have been getting made it grow like mad.

See Teekay, I didn't have anything to say either, but I said something anyhow.

Jerry Ericsson 6-16-2001 22:19

**Teekay**

Just a post to let you all know that I have absolutely nothing of any interest to post.

Yeah, I know, like, what's new?

Teekay 6-16-2001 19:29

Ok, well there were times we called them roach coaches too, could have been in Va. where we called them gut trucks, I do remember calling them that though. Oh I remember calling them roach coaches too, guess slang is slang, just varies according to who is saying it. Called them maggot wagons too once in awhile. Didn't make any difference what we called them, the food was ALWAYS lousy anyhow, but it was better then nothing, and beat the hell out of C-Rations.

Jerry Ericsson 6-16-2001 19:27

They're called roach coaches here, too.

Hallee 6-16-2001 19:23

Viv - Thanks. :) Actually, Azol is 17 - he was 16 when Tanek was born. His species (actually, he's half of one and half of the other so his father's species I should say) gets their baby teeth when they're about 1 to 2 years old and then get two adult molars before they're twelve and the baby teeth don't fall out until about nine or ten - at around 16, 17 or 18, they get a final set of molars. The exception is their fangs which are replaced every ten years. Although, Tanek's mother is of a species where the women have no third molars, so she will most likely never have them - however, she's 15 when the series ends so we'll never know. :)
If you like, I could send you a fact sheet about the three major alien species in my story.
*smiles*
Allein

Allein Allein's World 6-16-2001 19:02

**Rosemary**
Hello everyone,
Viv,
From the time I was 5 years old until I was about 71/2, we lived in Japan. My father was an Air Force Captain. Your posts and that short story remind me of the little I remember of those times. I really wish I remembered more. We had a house boy named Tommy and a maid named Mechico(sp?). One of the things I noticed in your story was the name Yokota. That was the name of one of the bases we lived on. Right outside of Tokyo. Earlier, we lived on Boffou. Don't know where that was. My sister was born in the hospital at Johnson Field outside of Tokyo. All of this went on from 1948 thru 1950ish. I have a few very vivid memories of that time, but very few. That's where I started 1st grade at 5 years old. I think they would take anyone who showed up. Enough blathering from me.

Ps, They call them Roach Coaches in South Texas also. What a concidence.
Bye

Rosemary 6-16-2001 16:36

VIV: Maggots look like fat rice grains.

Mary 6-16-2001 14:24

Allein: Neat story! It's not at all soppy, it's interesting! I like the second set of teeth at 30 idea. That is a good evolutionary idea. I needed a new set of teeth about then, and all babies ought to use ESP to tell us where it hurts! Good aliens...wish I could join that group.

Heather: Cars are a pain. I didn't know it got hot in Canada! Could you send a little here.

Rosemary: Those salmon eggs are sold in jars for fishing. They are red and say bait on the side. HOWEVER they are called Ikura here in Japan and usually seen at the sushi bar. I eat them only when I have to be polite in a social situation. I've always used them as bait. I took my kids back to America once to visit the grandparents. My father kept his bait salmon eggs in the refrigerator. I caught my oldest daughter sneaking them for a snack. She said they taste just like the nice red sushi salmon eggs! All the more reason NOT to eat them! If you have a chance to buy some as BAIT, do so. Trout and Browns go for them!

Jerry: It's not called a gut wagon here but a ROACH COACH!

Teekay: Thank you! I'm still just dabbling though. When I'm a real writer, will be when I actually have the discipline to sit my little you know what down for a couple hours a day and just concentrate on my work at least three to four days a week. Right now the writing is an escape I use when teaching gets too stressful.

Mary: Thank you for reading that until 2:00 AM. Also thanks for the comments. Your maggots on a gut wagon was interesting. How thick is a maggot? I picture them as thin little white worms, am I right? Yuck! Why do I want to know this??



Viv 6-16-2001 14:12

Oh Heather!
I don't know what to say.

Teekay, that was one very REAL sequal. That does need to be memorialized in *P*. Your dialog was very convincing. I do know an Ima and she sounds just like your posts! When I wrote Ima Spider I kind of guessed it might be you but the reaction convinced me that I might actually be dealing with a person existed. I don't really want to hurt anyone who chooses to come to this site...mentally ill or not.

May I help with the ending where Ima Ryder reincarnates into Ima Spider?

The day I read your post that said, "I think Ima Ryder might be heading Viv's way", I was wondering what you meant. It was a little disturbing to think that this Ima might be arriving. I hoped you weren't Ima herself heading over for a real visit. I turned on my answering machine just as a precaution...so I wouldn't answer a sudden demanding call from Narita International from an unexpected guest.

I went to wash my windows upstairs. Just as I was thinking, "I wonder what Teekay meant by that," a huge hairy benjo spider dropped out of the gutter, flew past my ear and landed with a bump right on the window.

I lost my temper and gave that spider a good swat with my rag. Down it went two stories and landed with an audible splat right on the concrete walkway below.

I looked down at it and said to myself, "Well, That HAD to be my visit from IMA Ryder. How typical that she'd turn herself into IMA spider!"

I walked downstairs, flipped off the answering machine, got my trusty bug box and went outside to get IMA. I figured she ought to visit a couple of classrooms...dead or alive she'd be a great success. There's nothing like a big, hairy bug to entertain kids.

Well, I went outside and Ima was gone. It was a little like the scene in Halloween. One minute the buggy man is there and the next he's gone.

Since it was a crazy day, I decided to ignore the fact that the cat might have eaten the evidence and just enjoy what my muse was telling me. Ida had reincarnated.

Well, I sure wouldn't tell this tale to a bunch of strangers. I'd probably find myself in a padded room.

This site is certainly interesting.

Heather: You are right about going on the net only to send a post. I can do that and will once I have to move from this house. Here I can access the American internet system. Once I get to my new house it's far enough away I won't have a telephone. After that, I'll do my posting from campus. It's also free! There's a way around every minor detail and it's usually free.

Viv 6-16-2001 13:48

Huh? There really are gut wagons that have maggots on them? Wow, and we always called those trucks that came by selling sandwiches, pop and stuff like that gut wagons, or at least when I was in the Army we did. Now I have seen my share of maggots back on the farm, you know up on the hill where dad always drug the cows that happen to die of natural causes, not the .22 in the brain that we used when we were short of hamburger. In fact maggots make wonderful bait when fishing, if you can get enough of them on the hook at once. Now I had an uncle (he is dead now, I wrote a short story about him once, but can't seem to find it anymore) who raised sheep. When one of them died, he would butcher them out and eat them. I always wondered when his wife served mutton if he killed it or found it's dead bloated body in the barnyard. I worked for him when I was a kid, driving tractor on his farm, putting up hay every year for five years. He paid great $5.00 a day + room and board, but like I say the board wasn't all that great. Me and another kid who was working there decided to quit one weekend because he refused to give us a ride to town for the weekend like he promised. Well he got mad and just left, taking his wife along. There we were, neither of us with a car, and it was a long way back to town. Just our luck, another Uncle delivered bulk fuel to farms, and happened to deliver that Friday, so we caught a ride with him back to town. I guess he looked all over the farm, then drove the road back and forth twice looking for us. Kind of a mean joke, but not as mean as he was. I recall one night after work, when he came home from town and told his poor wife (She was mom's sister, he no blood relative) that their two children were in a horrible wreck and they both died. Well she just went to pieces, as well she should, he let her cry for over an hour before he told her he was joking. I guess it is little wonder that his funeral attracted only a few relatives. Yes, I did attend but only to support my cousins.

There I go again, rambling on best shut up before I fill Jacks wonderful site to the brim.

Jerry Ericsson 6-16-2001 10:10

**Teekay**

Hi All;

ROSEMARY: Eating a pizza with a man inside sounds pretty scary or pretty exciting depending on ones taste. :-D

TAYLOR: Thanks anyway, but I wanted something sort of spooky yet appropriate. Convergence just isn't spooky enough.

VIV: No Way!!! You need the little kid who tells the story. Oh don't get rid of the little kid. Noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! (anguished plea)
And I'm as real a writer as you are. I keep the fact that I like to write like a dark and dirty secret. There are very few people in this world who know of my passion for the written word. As a matter of fact, I could probably count them all on one hand. Not counting you guys of course.
This is beginning to feel a bit like an A.A. meeting.

Gotta go and um.. ah... err... oh yeah, write something.

milk
potatoes
beans
nappies
light bulbs (settle down G.)
fruit
bread


aaaargh hand cramp.



Teekay 6-16-2001 2:39

VIV: I just came from the Workbook and must say, you have written some good things over there. I love your imagery. Especially in the piece you are considering for **P**. The spot where the little naked boys' heads are popping up from the water like bubbles. And the staple-like rungs of the ladder. I like that. If it weren't 2am, I would even say more, but the fact that I stayed up til 2 just to finish reading your stories should say something in itself.

HEATHER: Read your "13" too. I like that quite a bit! It is a nice conversational style with just the right mix of suspense and tension. I can tell you one thing, I would have left the boxes! I would have been way too scared. If the hairs on the back of my neck are standing up, I figure that is a whole lot of years of instinct telling me to get the hell out of Dodge.

Good work guys.

Mary 6-16-2001 1:46

Well, today was also good, I got to clean teeth and take X-rays on 2 people and assist on 2 fillings. :) Of course I didn't do everything perfect - on one person the X-ray was slightly off so not all the teeth got on the film and on the other I mounted them in the little cardboard thingy wrong, but at least the picture was good. And I was working with a new dentist and some new equiptment so I wasn't very fast at the filling, but we did a good job.

I think the main dentist there looks a lot like Dr. Nick from The Simpsons.

And now my story:
*************************

Tanek poked her rubber duck with her finger and giggled as it moved. Baths provided lots of amusement for her - she loved the water. She splashed up some water from her small bathtub and looked up at her father who was now dripping with soapy water. She grinned.

Azol dried his face with a nearby washcloth. Dipping his hand in the water he splashed Tanek's chest a little. "Why is it that whenever you take a bath, I always end up getting a shower?"

The baby spouted a long stream of gibberish interrupted by an occasional small laugh. Daddy, you're silly! she thought.

Azol could read his daughter's thoughts and was surprised that babies thought quite a bit and were much more intelligent than most people would think. Tanek didn't really talk yet. Sometimes her gibberish resembled words but Azol couldn't tell if she was really trying to talk. Usually to communicate, she would cry or point to something she wanted. She was especially fond of bright things or toys that moved.

Azol picked up the rubber and squeezed it so it squeeked. "Funny little duck, huh?"

Tanek grabbed it and made it squeek - the duck's head went immediately to her mouth, as did most objects. This time it went right back out again. Tanek winced in pain.

"What's wrong, Princess Sweet Pea?"

"Aaaaaaaooo."

"You're teething again - wonderful." Azol looked inside Tanek's mouth and saw the edge of a tooth just coming up. "You realize that you get to repeat this process when you're about Daddy's age, don't you?"

Tanek tilted her head to the side. What now huh?

"That's right."

No way Daddy. Not doing teeth thing again.

"That's teething, not teeth thing."

Whatever. The princess began playing with her duck again.

Rean entered the nursery just then. "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you had a naked girl in here Azol."

Azol threw a washcloth at him. "Quiet you!"

"Hey. I come in peace. How is my favorite neice, second cousin, cousin person," he kissed Tanek on the head. "Our family situation is really screwed up."

"You're telling me?"

"You remember that tomorrow is Father's day, right?"

"Yeah."

"Did you get something for Dad?"

"Of course I did. I felt I kind of owed him something for the whole giving me life thing."

Rean rolled his eyes. "What did you get him?"

"A new watch. And you?"

"I'm doing my shopping tomorrow. That's why I wanted to know so I didn't get him the same thing."

"Didn't get anything for your own father...tsk, tsk."

"Technically he's my uncle." <