Archived Messages from September 19,2003 to November 11, 2003

Hi Heather: Glad you are back. This notebook isn't right without you. Sorry to hear that you are having a tough time right now. As far as jobs, have you checked your local schools. Many take substitute teachers and you need only a high school education. There are many drawbacks to this..like being used as a dartboard by the kids, diseases you seem to catch and keep forever, plus the need for a babysitter..but it pays on average about 60.00 a day. It's not great, but when is work ever great? Plus the kids are nice and the ability to take on the job when you can and drop it when you can't is a plus.

Home in bed with another flu and cold. I've caught everything this year. If I'm not spreading a disease, I'm catching it.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone tomorrow. Have a good time cooking!

Viv 11-26-2003 20:15

GARIESS: Or, 4: You're a Gemini, and it's a Gemini male thing.

MARK: It's interesting how humans perceive parts of the body depending on their culture. Casabas have nothing whatsoever to do with sex, it is only our culture that has made it so.
For instance, in Africa or thereabouts casabas would be no more sexual than, say elbows.
Then there are places where it's extremely sexy to see how far you can get your bottom lip to stretch by way of inserting a plate between lip and gums.
There are places where something as basic as legs which must be kept under wraps at all costs for fear of immodesty.

Not going anywhere withthis, just an observation.


Teekay 11-26-2003 19:03

MARK: You are failing 'Womenspeak 101' miserably :-D

Teekay. 11-26-2003 18:21

Cripes, I've just thought of a 3rd option, and that is you actually ARE my husband pretending to be GARIESS.

Teekay. 11-26-2003 18:20

Women are more known for their melons than men, and yes, I'll admit, more than once I have thought, "nice casabas," when looking womanward. People *are* often melon-headed, however, so I think the anlogy fits.

Mark 11-26-2003 18:20

GARIESS: I did not say I disliked the analogy of the watermelon, merely that I disagreed with it. Actually, I found it amusing.
But you're right, I guess some may consider me argumentative, funny, my hubby tells me I am all the time, I however disagree, I perfer to call it conversive.

Now, coming from 2 sources, both being male, that could mean one of two things.

1: I am argumentative and am unaware of it
or
2: It's a male thing and some men feel challenged if I question their theories.

There may be more, but those are the 2 that come to mind.

But, take heart, you're right on one count - I am cute (even if only on the inside) :-D
And kind.
And funny (read: strange)
And caring.
And I'm not listing the bad points, they are well able to speak for themselves :-D (and deliberately argumentaive is not amongst them)

And I think you're cute too :-)


Teekay 11-26-2003 18:16

Uh, oh, Double post. Well, that happens sometimes.

11-26-2003 18:04

One more thing. I see the NB is still being spammed by the Chinese mining company. I risked taking a look at the web-site, and I find that their product is good for use as flux in making iron products. I thought about ordering a few hundred tons, but then I reconsidered. I don't think the rest of you want to encourage this kind of industrial spamming in the NB. Who knows how many other industries would invade here if word got out that we are a soft touch for industrial supplies. Of course I could let you speak for yourselves in that regard.

gariess 11-26-2003 18:02

One more thing. I see the NB is still being spammed by the Chinese mining company. I risked taking a look at the web-site, and I find that their product is good for use as flux in making iron products. I thought about ordering a few hundred tons, but then I reconsidered. I don't think the rest of you want to encourage this kind of industrial spamming in the NB. Who knows how many other industries would invade here if word got out that we are a soft touch for industrial supplies. Of course I could let you speak for yourselves in that regard.

gariess 11-26-2003 18:02

Something I should have mentioned earlier to Taylor. What you say about the IDEA that one man as lowly as Lee Harvey Oswald could kill a man as important as the president HAS GREAT MERIT. I believe you are right that many people simply wont be satisfied with that kind of answer. Like everyone else who heard the news at the time, I remember my first thought, it was to the effect that it must be a mistake or a hoax, that kind of thing can't happen. How could it? Surely they wouldn't let the president get killed by some nut case. I suppose that when a great many people came to accept that it did happen, they needed to think that there had to be a conspiracy.

gariess 11-26-2003 17:48

Teekay,

What you are referring to is not someone disgreeing with forensic experts. It is a case of forensic experts disputing each other. That sort of thing happens all the time. I am sorry if you don't like watermelon analogies, but impact to the human head is often compared to impacting melons of one kind or another. It is not uncommon for firearms people to try different kinds of bullets on melons to simulate impacting the human skull, especially the ones that are made to explode inside the target. It has something to do with weight, water content, and other things. Anyway, I will not discuss it any further. If you must be argumentative you can be so with someone else. You said earlier that I sound like your husband, but I assure you I am not. I still think you're cute, however. You just seem to have a propensity for argument. That is something many bright people like yourself have trouble with.

gariess 11-26-2003 17:34

Hi All :-)

GARIESS: I am thrilled that you picked my post to be the one you answered.

So, based on the hypothetical actions of a watermelon, others, whom you agree with, have decried the opinion of forensic experts?

Doesn't the forward movement of the body on impact presume correctly that the weight of the body was moved by the force of inertia?
I disagree with anyone's analogy of the watermelon representing the head and the post the body.
They are seperate entities and simply would not react the same way as a single human body unit.
I find it difficult to comprehend that people would even use it as an example.

And, with a watermelon there may be a certain chunk that stays behind, as with a body, the entire head may be missing, but the body's still there, and that would be about the only thing the comparison of the two would have in common.

You must stop watching Lee Ermey.

And thanks for cheering me up :-D

Why is everybody talking about this anyway? I musthave missed a vital posting.

Going...




Teekay 11-26-2003 16:36

**Taylor**

Just a g'day to all... Oh and I've found a new way to work out problems with writing. With storylines and that.
For the last couple of days, I step out back and just keep ditching a small soft football at a brick wall... While thinking about what I'm working on. It's so relaxing at the same time to

Taylor 11-26-2003 10:05



lianchun yang china jilin shanwei wollastonite mining co., ltd. 11-26-2003 3:15

I am only going to answer one post tonight.

Teekay, I watched a number of TV analyses of the JFK assasination. I have no recollection of which one had experts comment on the presumption that since the body lurched backward at the moment of impact, the fatal shot must have come from in front. This presumes that the weight of the body was moved by the impact. A challenge to this was made that the head can be likened to a watermelon on a post. In a more or less relaxed state the head rests fairly loosely on the neck. To make the point quickly, if you fire a high powered rifle (maybe even a low powered one) into a watermelon sitting on a post, the watermelon will certainly explode, but there is always a chunk that stays on the post unmoved. The melon has absorbed the energy of the impact even to the point of leaving part of itself on the post. If the post had a wired in nervous system connected to the watermelon that worked like a person's, the post might do anything by way of physical reaction independant of the watermelon sitting on it. In this analogy the watermelon represents the head and the post represents the body, if I need to be so explicit.

Lee Ermey does a TV show on the History channel in which he attacks watermelons with anything from a fifteenth century sword to a WW11 machine gun. The watermelons always lose these confrontations except for the little bit of themselves that they rest on. Personally, since I have always known watermelons to be of a most peaceful nature and entirely defenseless, I find these attacks to be unprovoked and unconscionable, but Mr. Ermey, the old gunny, takes a different view.

The marksmanship of Lee Harvey Oswald or the reliability of his rifle might be questioned in any number of ways, but nothing can be proved in that regard at this point. The fact that he was in the building with the rifle and at the window suggests that he had proven to himself, at least, that he could be effective with it regardless of its reputation.

gariess 11-26-2003 2:34

Awwwww, guys, thanks for the hugs, well-wishes and thoughts.
(I didn't figure anyone would laugh at my situation, Gariess, just at the possibility of a civil divorce...;o)
Thank you, Sunny, for telling me about your experience! Good to know I'm not the only one who thinks these things can be handled as the delicate nature they are without bruising anyone's feelings... at least past where they have already been hurt.
The kids are adjusting well, which is amazing and hopeful... we have both been keeping them well-informed on what's going on, as well as listening to them share their feelings and any fears/misunderstandings, misgivings, etc.
(Of course, there have been some really 'almost funny' misconceptions they mentioned when first hearing the news.)

My son asked if Dad was going to take half the cat. LOL

At any rate, thanks for the warm welcome back!
Good to be home. :o)




Heather 11-25-2003 22:57

HEATHER: I'm utterly gob-smacked.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGE HUGS))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I'm so glad you're back. Your news has me reeling so I can only imagine what place you're in right now.

What an entrance. Now, go back out and come in again with something a little less likely to throw my world off kilter will you :-)

HOWARD already gave me a bit of a shock. When I tuned in yesterday (I think it was yesterday), his was the first post I glanced at and I saw something about the president being killed and well....I thought for the tiniest fraction of a nano second that he was speaking about George W. Bush.
Give me a right start it did. (to be said in Cockney fashion for intended effect.)

GARIESS: You wrote: You are probably right about the meaning of ennui.
I'm having a little trouble coming to terms with the word 'probably'.
You sound like my husband :-D
'Yeah, you're 'probably' right, I really shouldn't have eaten those beans, where should we bury the cat?'
Damn tootin' I'm right. :-)

You also wrote: And don't get me started on which direction a body moves when a high velocity projectile blows away the top of a person's brain. The head absorbs the energy of the bullet, and the motion of the body is dictated by the instantantaneous spasming reaction of the nervous system to the shattering of the brain. Because the bullet comes from behind, in no way determines that the body will move forward during the miliseconds of impact. The resulting spasmodic event is totally unpredictable.

Ooer, and where did that juicy little fact come from? It's really very interesting and I really would like to know how one comes to be in possession of such knowledge.

You did not write:I assure you that if the hubby and I ever get to Australia, we will be sure to visit you. That would be fun.
RHODA did, and she sure better.

Going.....


Teekay 11-25-2003 15:17

It's good to be able to share in here.

Heather, I've been where you are -- wondering what the future would hold when my husband and I were divorced after 22 years of marriage. Our kids were only 6 and 9, and it was definitely scary. Fortunately, with effort, we've almost always been able to put the kids first, and that made decisions easier. My daughter said that we have one of the most civilized divorces she's ever seen.

I wish you well, and remember, you're never alone.



Sunny 11-25-2003 11:28

Heather, I've missed you, glad to see you back. Sorry to hear of the family problems, but then these sort of things happen, and I guess all one can do is hang on tightly and try to work it out the best for all concerned.

As far as the one gunman deal, I guess it could have been, but then have you ever tired to shoot one of those old Italian bolt actions? I have, most of them shoot a few feet either high, low, to the left, or the right of sight. Used to see them once in awhile at gun shows, those who had them on their table when I got there, ALWAYS had them on their table when we left, that is if they didn't get mad and toss them in the nearest dumpster. Those rifles have and always have had a well earned reputation of being the WORST battle rifle ever developed by any nation in any war. THe round was miss-designed, the barrel twist was completely wrong for the velocity, weight and ballistic coeficent, and the sights were so poor that one had a better chance of hitting a target by sighting down the side of the barrel, that is if you could find one with a reasonably straight barrel.

BUT then they say Oswell was an expert with the rifle, well so was I when I qualified with the M-16 in Basic Training but then about all that proves is that you've probably shot a rifle before Basic, and maybe went hunting a time or two, in contrast to those city boys who grew up never seeing, much less shooting any sort of firearm. AND I can assure you, I have tried shooting a few of those Italian battle rifles (took three in trade on an old .22 rifle I had on my table one gun show, just to get a chance to try the old junkers) and of the three I had an opertuntity to try, NONE of them had any sort of accuracy. SO saying that Oswell shot three very accurate shots in a matter of six seconds from a piece of crap rifle that is notorious for it's inaccuarcy, and hit the President twice at over a hundred yards (OK so he had an old weaver scope on the piece of crap rifle but that probably didn't help much!) in a moving vehicle (even though it was a bit slow moving) is a bit much for me to digest. Sure it COULD have happened that way, if every thing went exactly right but I have strong doubts that it did. I can't offer any explination since I wasn't there, in fact I was in the Sixth grade at the time, but then many who were there don't have any idea what happened either. Well then Oliver Stone knows what happened, but then Oliver Stone wrote crap about what happened in Vietnam too, and I understand most of it was exactly that.

At any rate, it's a fair topic to discuss when you haven't anything else on your mind.

Had a sort of intresting thing happen today, my murdering cousin's daughter's best friend stopped by, the daughter was taken away from her mother shortly after the murder and was eventually addopted by a family in another state. Nobody really knew what happend to her till today when the lady called, then came by for a copy of our famly tree. Seems the daughter is now in her thirty's and is trying to find info on her birth family, (she was like five years old when she was taken from here). She is afraid to contact any of us in person for fear there may be some sort of adverse reaction (there, of course wouldn't be but who's to blame her for being a bit fearfull of such things).

At any rate I gave them all the data, and promised to scan in all our photo's of her and her sister and cousins when they were still up here. Was nice to hear that she's doing well in her home away from here.

Still more snow, will it ever end??? It got cold yesterday, reaching -14, but today was a bit of a warming trend it's up to 30 above now, they say snow for Turkey day but I guess that's allright, our son and family can't make it this year, they will try for Christmas if all goes well with them.

Sorry to hear of the heart problems Garies, had one of those tests myself earlier this fall, thankfully mine turned out good. It did have me a bit worried there for awhile.

WRITE ON!

Jerry 11-25-2003 1:15

**Taylor**

Gariess: I believe the reason why so many people need to believe in the whole conspiracy is that JFK was a powerful man. Being a President and all. And if just one man can take down a President and throw people in turmoil like that, its too hard to comprehend. Take for instance if one man can do that then imagine what a group of people can do. The reason for believing in the theories, I think is fear and disbelief.

Taylor 11-25-2003 1:06

Heather,

You didn't hear me snorting or sneering. I don't react that way when I hear a friend having such problems. I wish you the best.

Teekay,

You are probably right about the meaning of ennui. I have enough trouble with the English language, how will I sort out French? Still, it seems that there should be more words for certain feelings. On the other hand it smacks a little of a bunch of blind people trying to work out what is green and what is red. One needs a reference, then communication can happen.

I have always wondered why so many people need to believe that JFK was done in by a conspiracy. Personally, I like the original lone gunman version. Sexing up the story, however, is inevitable in the end. There seems to be no end to all the armchair detectives. I even see where one investigator worked out a whole scenario that has a shooter firing from a sewer drain in the sidewalk and making an escape through the storm drains.

One thing I take great exception to is the interpretation of the amatuer photograph of the so-called "badge man" on the grassy knoll. I have been a photographer for over 50 years. I have done darkroom work on the best negative sources available, and I have never been able to enlarge even a fine grain negative as much as they have with the coarse grain amatuer film that was available in the early sixties, and come up with a readable image of such a small area. The "badge man," as far as I am concerned is horse-hockey. Someone has created a whole "policeman" out of shadows and light coming through trees and bushes. Actually, not a whole one, about one third. I can take any one of a hundred negatives with trees and bushes and conjure up anything you like. How about a horse or a donkey? just tell me what you want. After a 12X enlargement of one hundredth of an inch of film you can invent any image you want with so called "enhancement."

And don't get me started on which direction a body moves when a high velocity projectile blows away the top of a person's brain. The head absorbs the energy of the bullet, and the motion of the body is dictated by the instantantaneous spasming reaction of the nervous system to the shattering of the brain. Because the bullet comes from behind, in no way determines that the body will move forward during the miliseconds of impact. The resulting spasmodic event is totally unpredictable.

Besides, I have an alibi for that day.

gariess 11-25-2003 0:19

TEEKAY,

I assure you that if the hubby and I ever get to Australia, we will be sure to visit you. That would be fun.

HEATHER,

I missed you too. Good to have you back. I am sorry for your sad news. I hope the things with your job and your children come together.

GARIES,

Why not share these things? Yes it is heavy stuff, but that is what friends are for. I will be in prayer for you.

RACHEL,

Snow, what is that? It has been a long time since it has snowed around here. Certainly not while I have lived here, and with everyone here not knowing how to drive in the stuff, snow would be terrifying.

Rhoda 11-24-2003 23:27

Oooooooh boy...
There is just no way I'll be able to catch up with what's been going on here! So, (big intake of oxygen here) I'll just dive back in. I have been wanting to immerse myself in your words, my friends, but haven't had much heart to sit still and read, let alone write much more than a sad entrail of a grocery list.

Shall I just spill it, then? (I can hear the questions not yet written in your posts to come)
My husband and I are getting divorced.
I am still jobless, so there is much to be panicking about.
Hopefully the potential battle over the joint custody of the kids won't ever have to erupt, and we can all come to an agreement satisfactory to all. (Was that a snicker? I heard someone scoff!) I know not every couple on the brink of divorce is able to speak to one another, let alone agree; my eyes are on the sky when I say I hope we are not the average divorcing couple.
We weren't much of an average at any point.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Still no news from Ronsdale Press... I'll keep hanging onto the newsclips at the base of my mailbox, and torturing the mailman with my antics until one day I do hear back.
LOL

Hugs to all, and I HAVE MISSED YOU TERRIBLY!
Of course, it's my fault I've been away...
;op


Heather 11-24-2003 22:23

GARIESS: Are you sure the word is ennui? I always took that to mean boredom.
It's interesting we don't have a word for something so powerful, or maybe such elusiveness cannot be restrained within a language.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) to you.
You sound as though you could use some.

Teekay. 11-24-2003 16:00

**Taylor**

I wasn't alive during the Kennedy Assassination. And I don't remember much about the attempt on Reagen's life.

But two Historical events that come to mind has to be The Challenger exploding... It was such a change in attitudes in the couple of days that followed. It seemed everyone knew about it and felt the shock of it in some way. Especially the teachers.

The other would is the tearing down of the Berlin Wall. I remember spending much of my high school years wandering why it was up... and why they couldn't just sit down and talk it over. I remember I was hooked onto the news watching it with Awe at the people with sledgehammers and whatever to take the wall down.
At school the next day, it was like a celebration. Like relief or it was what we thought a step towards a solution.

Anyway that's enough dribbling from me.

Taylor 11-24-2003 10:12

looking for analysis for novel...anybody?

brad 11-24-2003 3:19

I had just learned the proper way to kill a man with a bayonet, when a jeep pulled up to the instructor stand, and a sergeant jumped out. With tears streaming down his face he told us that "Some asshole has just killed the President!"
We stood there in shock -- one of the guys the front rank pissed his pants -- and nobody said a word. Some of them thought it was just another instructor's trick to catch a recruit off guard, then use him for an example to the rest of us. But they formed us in squads and quick-marched us back to our company area, where we were dismissed for the rest of the afternoon.
We had just completed our rifle training the day before, and some of us -- myself included -- had qualified as "Expert," and were awarded weekend passes -- the only allowable weekend pass from basic training.
It was a Friday, and they did let us go, but that was a long wait in the Newark Airport, to get a free standby flight home. I made it eventually, and it was good to get home, but there was that same sense of shock everywhere I went.

howard 11-23-2003 21:11

Randall and Jerry -- I have to add my own recollection of being in Mr. Hardesty's 7th grade science class, drawing a picture of a battery, when Jenny Smith came back from the nurse's office to tell us that Kennedy had been shot. I was so traumatized that I (obviously) remember every single detail of that afternoon. My mom was volunteering as a library aide, and I ran down the hall into the library when they dismissed class, throwing myself into her arms and sobbing. She walked me to her car, crying herself, and exchanged a sorrowful glance with the vice principal. He just shook his head.

I wrote in my diary that night: "Why? Why? Why?"

Sunny 11-23-2003 19:42

Teekay,

You mentioned that powerful feeling of things remembered. It seems so strongly connected to the human sense of smell, somehow. I believe the French have a word, ennui, the definition of which covers that feeling. It seems odd that we have no English equivalent of it, because it is quite universal. I have often felt a pang of "ennui" so strong that it is barely endurable. Yet, with no proper definition, I cannot really say if it is that. But I must ask, what else can it be? If the English language has neglected something so dramatically tangible, can there be an even more overwhelming feeling we haven't a word for, and "ennui" is actually something else, a lesser phenomenon? It would make for an interesting discussion among writers, that.

I must adress Mel, and tell her that I haven't been insensitive, at all, about the loss of her father. I have pondered your loss, Mel, and I feel badly for you. I hope the future is a better time for you.

Early this week I have a date with the woman who knows, in the most literal terms, that the best way to a man's heart is through a catheterization tube. She is my favorite Irish lady, Dr. Sullivan. She has been there before and no doubt will be going there again, soon. She looked at the results of my thalium stress test last week and called to invite me in for a chat. I reminded her that I was turned down four years ago by the Surgeons for a triple bypass, so she explained that she wants to talk about new advances that have been made since four years ago. It seems that there are some new hardware devices that they haven't yet put inside me Maybe they are going to replace the doorknob they inserted in '99. I jest, of course, but it sometimes feels like there's a doorknob in there. I am sure she has some such thing in mind, at any rate. Have you ever noticed that doctors don't call you in unless they already have something in mind? I am sure we are not going to discuss partisan politics or the beet crop in West Texas.

I risk adding this weight to the NB, especially at a time when there seems to be so much weight of a medical nature, but there is an old saying that if one wants something done, one gives the task to a busy person. Now, I don't want anything done, of course, but there seems to be a parallel to that, when there is much health news of a weighty nature, weight being another thing that Dr. Sullivan is sure to remind me about. Speaking of which, I must now dine (while Dr. Sullivan is not looking.)

Later, you lot.



gariess 11-23-2003 18:11

Congratulations to England and Australia for a fantastic game of rugby. Both teams deserved to win the World Cup, but that little genius called Jonny Wilkinson made the difference. I was happy that the cup came to the Northern Hemisphere- European Union-England. But what was really moving was to see the sportsmanship and fairplay of all those wonderful athletes of both themes.

Jon is still drunk (of joy) for the England's win and cannot come to the Notebook. He asked me to do him that favour. So here I am in all my splendour. Kisses accepted.

Pussy 11-23-2003 7:46

RACHEL - if you like snow, come up here, we got over eight inches of the white crap. Did get it all cleaned up though, now the car and pickup have paths to the street, a path to the garage where I park the snowblower is clear, as well as a path to the garbage cans. Oh well.

If I were younger, think I'd have made a snow man or maybe played fox and goose, used to love that game, and snow ball fights, they were a blast, then there was a trip to the vacant lot where the City hauled all those huge chuncks of compacted snow, we made super forts out of those things, and the tunells we dug through those snow banks, it's a wonder we didn't die in a collapse or some such accident. On year the snow was so deep, we dug a huge six foot deep pit in the snow (just reached the ground) then took turns falling backwards down into the pit, the snow in the bottom cushined the fall, it was nearly as fun as a carnival ride.

It's snowing again up here, guess I may need the blower again in the morning...

Randall - I was in the sixth grade when Kennedy was shot. We were out on the playgrounds, I had just found a warm spot in the corner of the school, where heat escaped from the lunch room and kept me a bit warm, it was a bitterly cold day as I recall, when a friend came running, he was crying, told me of the shooting of our President.

I don't know that anyone who wasn't alive when Kennedy was in office could understand the love for that great man. The press told us it was a return to Camolot, and nobody know of the President's illnesses, or his flandering from where we stood he was the greatest president who ever lived. He stood alone before our feared enemy, the Soviets and turned them away from Cuba, he told us to "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country and we believed it to be the greatest words ever spoken.

When he died, it was as if we lost a parent, even our parents shed tears. We were told to go home and watch the history unfold on the televison, and we did.

Yep, I to have been watching all the "news" on the History Channel, each entry into "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" trys to show a different conspiricy. One said it was Johnson, another it was the Mafia, another, it was members of the durg underworld, another said Castro. I doubt that we will ever know the truth, and I doubt we would believe the truth if we heard it anymore, too many folks have said too much crap, mostly lies about the whole thing but they do have a point. If it were a conspiricy, the folks involved had to be very highly placed in the government.

Jerry 11-23-2003 0:21

Randall

Good evening gang...

I was sixteen and home alone watching a soap opera that fall day. Diagnosed with Hepatitis, I developed a yellow tint and a doctor ordered me quarantined. A full semester of my junior year in high school was awash. Not really "sick" in the true sense of the word, and with both parents working I had the house to my self. It was noon and a freshly cooked hamburger awaited me. I settled in the chair and began to watch noon time TV, a CBS station from Dallas. From that position, except to eat, use the bathroom, and sleep on the couch I strayed not for three days. In those times the family TV was only on short periods of time. I don't believe it was turned off for a week that month.

"Three shots have been fired at President Kennedy's motorcade," an voice said. At the words a developing sense of politics matured. I was aware that there had been trouble in Dallas in the months previous to that fall day. Someone shot at a radical army general. A visiting Adali Stephenson was assaulted with a sign during a protest. A full page add in a newspaper assailed the visiting president. Right wing activists ruled the day.

On a beautiful fall day the wife of Texas's governor Nellie Connally turned and said to President Kennedy, "Dallas loves you Mr. President."

Only seconds later a lone shooter or a group of men fired and we all became aware of how ugly the world may be. So now the question seems not so much who but why? To accept that just one man could cause so much sadness is almost impossible to understand. So we reach out. Develop conspiracy theories. Was it CIA? Rogue CIA agents? Inept Secret Service agents? J. Edgar Hoover? Rogue FBI agents? Anti-Castro? Pro-Castro? Communist KGB agents? Mafia intrigues? Rich Texas oil men? Poor Texas oil men who wanted to be rich? Vice-President Lyndon Johnson? Ex-VP Richard Nixon? The industrial/military complex? Dallas police officers? Pro-Vietnam American generals? Stepping in from left field one report said Oswald was simply a poor shot. He intended to kill Governor Connally, who was once Secretory of the Navy, because Connally would not grant him an honorable discharge from the Marines!! And my favorite...French dope king pins, tied to the CIA through the Mafia, acting on revenge for the assassination of the Diem brothers in South Vietnam through North Vietnam intelligence officers???? I'm really surprised that no one has concluded that the person behind the affair was Marilyn Monroe, miffed cause Kennedy ditched her! MY GOD! Bill Clinton look out!

(Sigh)

It's slowly coming out. The answers. Oswald's mistress in New Orleans had an hour on the History Channel. A tell all designed to throughly confused who the real Oswald was or wasn't. LBJ's mistress stepped out, claimed she had a son by LBJ! Told the world LBJ knew about the assisination attempt and said nothing. Guilt by admission I suppose.

"Murder will out," old Bill Shakespear wrote. Or was that Roger Bacon? Develop your own theory...

Night

Randall

Randall 11-22-2003 22:23

Hi All,
RHODA: I dreamt last night that you and your hubby came for a visit :-).

RACHEL: Lucky you!!! The way the weather's going here -very erratic, we could get snow for Christmas.
Although the last 2 days have been rainy and miserable and I'm not real sure how I'd cope with a Christmas where everyone was stuck inside.
It looks good on the movies, and I've fantasised about it for ever, but I think the reality would probably kill me.
Maybe I just need a bigger house :-)

I think it was very decent of the Wallabies to allow England the game *GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR*

Going...
to a kiddies birthday party.

Teekay 11-22-2003 16:12

OH MY GOSH!!!!!

Guys, it's snowing at my house!!!! I can not believe it. We hardly ever get snow, least of all in November. I've got the biggest grin on my face. I so want to go for a ride on the horses in the snow. I think that would be awsome! Right now it's just the least bit of fluff falling from the sky, but you wouldn't believe the excitement and screaming that errupted in my house when it was seen. I swear we all noticed at the same time (laughter). I know that for a lot of people on the NB, snow is not big deal, but for me it is, so just try to humor me ;o)

Ciao for now.

RDRKO

Rachel 11-22-2003 14:11

**Taylor**

Howdy all...

Seems I've picked up this bug again... Sketching on the back of scrap paper at Karoeke & jotting down notes of any ideas that come to mind.

How are you all going anyway? Good I hope

Taylor 11-22-2003 5:30

Weatherman is wrong again! We now have snow up to our ankles but it's comming down so fast you can't see the christmas lights on the house across the street. The wind is beginning to pick up from the twenty miles per hour it's been all day to up around forty miles per hour, maybe a bit faster. It will soon be a real live blizzard, and I have to go to bed and miss it.

Drat!

Oh well I can look at all the pretty white snow as I struggle with my old snow blower to make a path to the garbage cans and clean the drive way.

The turkey is well done, smoking went well despite the white crap falling from the sky, so Thanksgiving will have the added spice of a smoked turkey that will share the platter with the roasted one that we have each year.

Night all.



Jerry 11-22-2003 0:59

Boy, you lot sure partied hearty while I was abed. Don't think I'm going round picking up all the pooped party poppers.
(I don't know what you call party poppers - I'm talking about those little cups and you pull a string and it pops and tiny rolls of coloured paper explode out.)

PAMELA: I'm sorry. I didn't realise you were after advice. I usually have a plethora of advice to give away totally free, but when it comes to ways to earn money and be happy at the same time, well, if I knew, I'd do it myself.
Writing seems an awful slow way to do it - at least to begin with, but you've already had a book published, so you've broken through the hard ground.
I think Agatha Christi had the right idea - a book a year.
Or market gardening sounds good - if you like gardening.
Or maybe cottage industry.

BTW: Your daughter sounds very bright. (Not counting the male folk here or my hubby (sometimes) or Doctor Phil.)

MEL: I thoroughly empathise with your having to let the farm go.
My Nanna's house was sold to a naturapath, but it will always be my Nanna's house, where my childhood was happiest and memories that will never fade were made.
There are times, far too few, when I can be walking along and the faint indescribable scent of my Nanna's garden will come to me for just a fleeting moment and conjure up all those memories, then the nostalgia will kick in, that bittersweet ache for things past.

This isn't meant to sound depressing, just understanding.

GARIESS: I know! I know! (frantic waving of raised hand at the back of the class) I remember lots of little bits and pieces over the years, much as I remembered where you hailed from before reading it in your most recent post, and the answer to your question to LITTER is no, they are not related.
And I'm only butting in and telling you because LITTER is likely to miss your question.

Roight, I'm orf then.

Bew ella ndh aveawon der fuld ay.


Teekay 11-21-2003 16:43

LITTER,

Thank you for sharing the pictures. I think I could understand cuddling the baby rather than writing or posting on the Notebook. All are good things to do, but you have your priorities in the right place. Your grand-daughter is beautiful.



Rhoda 11-21-2003 12:06


Thanks, all, for your insight into what I should do to get out of my present occupation. Well, okay, you didn't actually do anything, but seeing it written down helped me make a decision. Write a book or sell a marketable skill? Hmmmm, I think I've gotta go with the latter. I've been an architectural designer since I was a girl building model houses out of shoeboxes and shirt cardboards instead of playing with my ready-made dollhouse. While I do think my book idea is good and would sell, it could, like my first, just garner a modest advance and income, not necessarily enough to quit my job. On the other hand, although only open a couple of weeks, my design efforts resulted in the sale of a whole-house remodeling plan for $1000. BTW, Teekay, I made a copy of the check to save before depositing it. I'm going to wait until spring (here, not in that upside-down place) since no one is thinking about remodeling during the holiday season, but I will definitely re-open my design firm then.

Mel, I'm glad you are able to be happy for your dad even though you will miss him from here. I'm really sorry about your having to sell the old farm you have such fond memories of.

Litter, I'm so jealous, I want grandkids too! Well, my daughter just met a guy she likes, the first one in a while (at 22, she thinks guys are generally stupid, perhaps due to where their brains are located at that age), so maybe other good things will follow.

Jerry, ah, yes, those wonderful "lids", just $10 for a whole ounce, talk about the good old days!

Randall, I think Bush II performed admirably after 9/ll, it's his actions since then that are being questioned. And as a Texan myself, I don't see him as the hunker down, straight-talking type (which has gotten me in trouble often enough), but as a spoiled rich kid used to having his own way.

Howard, I'm sorry Andria's baby didn't make it to term, with all the medical advances they are making, I hope they come up with something to help women who have such difficulties. At least they have made a lot of progress with preemies, so hopefully Kris' baby will join you all soon. BTW, you look really good for such an old fart :).

Love to all,





pamela 11-21-2003 11:12

And MARK, it's pronounced Ustraylya.


tsk, bloomin' Umericuns, carnt evin tork proply.

:-D

Teekay 11-21-2003 5:29

Hi All Again,

GARIESS: I am forgoing the purchase of the exclusive, highly desirable beachfront property I've had my eye on in order to hang the cheque on the wall.
Nevermind, I'll buy it with the next one HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA*SOB*

Anyway, truth be told, it would probably cost more in bank fees to change it to Aussie currency.

RANDALL: It's a known fact that Isaac Newton, discoverer of the gravitational force was American.
Australia does not have gravity.
American's have gravity because without it they would fall off the earth.
We do not have Jerry Springer and we do not have Ricky Lake.
This is because there are no people with blood rushing to their heads here, besides, most of us would be wa-a-a-ay too embarrassed to go on national T.V and do that sort of thing -even for money.
But, most importantly, we do have Big Macs :-).

LITTER: She's gorgeous!

HOWARD: I'm so sorry to hear that. Seems your lot are going through a pretty rough time lately. ((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))) for Andria.

Going....
It's 9 pm and I'm sure I should be doing something other than this.



Teekay 11-21-2003 5:11

lid?????

Lid????

LID - wasn't that what we used to call a baggie of pot back in the good old days of war and protest??

Wait, no war and protest, that's today right????

No, it was the 60's right???

Wait, is it the 60's???

Must be the pills or something?????

Well that weatherman who was eating his hat last night was wrong again, or so he said tonight, now he says we'll be getting five to eight inches of snow. Sure wish he'd make up his mind, and me with a turkey all ready to smoke in the morning.

I don't know if any of you still watch the TV, but I have it on for background noise and that DAMN SUNDAY, SUNDAY Dodge Ram commercial is getting on my nerves. It got so bad tonight that I threw my cane at the blasted tube. Too bad I'm such a bad shot with a cane, the TV lived and the commericial is on yet again as I type.

That's it, I'm going to bed and play with the box the kids came in.

Night all

WRITE ON!!!


Jerry 11-21-2003 0:11

Litter,

I suppose if I had known your name is McLaren, I would have aked this question a long time ago. Are you, by any chance, related to Philip McLaren who used to post here? It may seem to be a big planet for such a possibility, but this is a small NB. I am assuming your name is McLaren, because I looked at the pictures of the baby (very nice, by the way) who is named McLaren.

gariess 11-20-2003 23:56

Teekay,

Very good to hear about your check for the story. Can you cash a check and then put it on your wall? It seems one would have to surrender the check in order to have the money. Rather like that old thing about eating the cake and having it, too.

Somebody mentioned Australians or raised some question in regard to same. I hope this will not be percieved as some sort of strange discrimination, but I have found that the Australians I have met here in the NB have always been interesting and stimulating.

Here's a question. Why would anyone with a mining company want to spam this NB? How much mining business does anyone expect to pick up in here? When was the last time anyone ordered a few thousand tons of ore from someone they met in here?

Howard,

Did you mention getting something over the counter? I asked my pharmacist about Viagra. "Can I get it over the counter," I asked. He replied, "If you can get it over the counter, you don't need Viagra."

I guess you were speaking to the engaging Natasha/Lid when you asked about the substance being abused. I see that some have taken exception to certain references to American traits, real or percieved. Somehow, I fail to become aroused over being maligned by people who are as anti-eloquent as Natasha/Lid. I suppose it is because they so effectively impair their own credibilty.

I must welcome Jon. Welcome, Jon. How is Pussy?
(Now there is a question one can rarely get away with asking. Makes you wonder if that's the only reason I asked, doesn't it?)

gariess 11-20-2003 23:42

Randall

Hey!

Hi Pamela...Hi Mel...Sunny...Elaine...

Jerry, nice web site. I heard that Johnny Cash song before, but as all his writings he hit the nail on the head.

Teekay...you know, the darndest thing happened to me today. I was strolling along enjoying life and for some reason, the blood rushed right to my head! (Grin) Which was unusual, cause I usually feel I'm about to float away. Once a matter of great concern this falling away feeling could only mean I'm upside down on the face of the PLANET! Most Texans compensate for the lack of stable gravity here in two ways...vote the liberal ticket (for that warm fuzzy feeling) in elections or gobble down enormous amounts of fast food and sugar enriched soft drinks. I'm in the latter BTW. I expect this light, floaty (flatulent?) feeling is, no, not from lack of beam but a seasonal thing that only occurs when Australia is in summer. After all Australia is exclusive beach front property and in the summer a large portion of the population are all wet, in the water that is. What this has to do with anything is beyond me (excuse, while I gobble a Big Mac and double order of fries) I'm just padding the tale. (Grin) However...if the Roo, that is many various animals down that have a pouch, could it be that a little extra weight is needed to secure their position on the planet? Hum...? (BIG GRIN!)

Some rude persons might say that Texicans are light headed anyway what with LBJ and both Bush's as proof via their record as presidents! Not true I pontificate! Well yes, LBJ did leave office VERY wealthy...and yes he might have exerted some influence along that line but old LBJ was well meaning. Let Uncle Lyndon help you. If George #I had said "I'm gonna tax your butt off," instead of "Read my lips, no new taxes," he might have had time to expand his fortune as well. George #2 took a whammy on 9/11 so his historical status is yet to be decided! Understanding President Bush is hard for some people, cause he has that down home, hunker down in the cow lot and talk straight style that most Texicans understand...And what we as a nation need now more than ever.

Gotta go

Randall

Randall 11-20-2003 20:35

PAMELA -- Hi! Thanks! 39? no, it was my 62th. Dorie is recovering from some serious back surgery. I think she'd rather it be that, as she did sprain her back once, and the pain was much worse.

RANDALL -- Several films have done that to me. Probably too many to list. Just an old softie, I guess.

We got word yesterday that our Andria has lost her baby at seven weeks. She's devastated, and we're hurting for her. Our #2 daughter Kris is still hanging on, and is past one critical point, and feeling much better. Both have had problems in the past, and we're thankful for the blessings we have.

LITTER -- Beautiful pictures! Something to be proud and thankful for! Give her a kiss from me.

howard 11-20-2003 20:32

Litter -- she's gorgeous.(I just love babies with hair. Mine were both blindingly bald for a year, but turned out quite well in spite of that ;-) And your daughter looks like the most natural mom! November 11th is quite a significant date, you know. (I met my husband on that day!) Really, 11/11 is a magical number.
My very best to all of you!

Sunny 11-20-2003 20:28

Hi All.

Isn't it amazing how much energy you can put into cuddling a 2-week-old baby? Things seem to have got an awful lot busier of late, but it's different this time – less blind panic and more time to enjoy watching her grow…

Anyway, some pics of the little apple of my eye can be found at http://www.litterali.com/Ceitidh

Busy, busy, busy,


Litter Ceitidh 11-20-2003 19:58

Hi All,

MARK: It's all a matter of perspective.
How about if you guys have it all wrong and............you're really the ones with the blood rushing to your head???? Huh? Huh?

I've seen Jerry Springer.
I've seen Ricky Lake.

I know where the people with the blood rushing to their heads live :-D

PAMELA: Welcome back. Was wondering what happened to you.

Haven't time to catch up on all the posts just yet. Seems it's either feast of famine these days :-)

.....gnioG

Teekay 11-20-2003 17:50

Hey, All -

Just a note to say I'm still here...

ELAINE: Nice poem! Your muse is healthy and hovering!

HOWARD, RACHEL, SUNNY, TAYLOR, ED, TEEKAY, RHODA, PAMELA, and All - thank you for kind words, your thoughts and prayers the last couple of weeks. You are a wonderful bunch of people I'm proud to know! :-]

HOWARD - Belated HB!!! Another year wiser, huh?

TEEKAY, LAURA: Wow!!! Real checks in the mail for writing endeavors! You go, gals! You're so inspiring... now if I could just make more time to write my own stuff...

PAMELA: Indeed, at my father's viewing, I had the distinct impression that my dad's spirit had already SPRUNG from its earthly shell and zoomed ecstatically into the next world, a far better place than this - I'm happy for him. :-)

CHERI (You out there?): If I were already published, hauling in the dough by wheelbarrowfuls due to my literary fame (yeah, right!), I wouldn't have to tell you now... my siblings and I had to put the ol' homestead up for sale... eight acres of heaven on earth with an old farmhouse needing desperate repairs and empty of things now but still full of love and memories... sigh.

I will write tributary story settings for that old house, its wandering gardens, and the fields that were once home to a horse, among many other indestructible memories...

The muse has gone lyrical and is writing a song about the old place too...

Now if I only had time to sit at author's keyboard or composer's piano... maybe over the long Thanksgiving weekend next week...

I've run out of elipses..

A great day to all!

Mel 11-20-2003 15:13

Speaking of spirituality, I just finished reading Mitch Albom's "The Five People You Meet In Heaven". While I agree with others that it could have been better written, I still have to say that it really touched my heart. I recommend it for anyone who wants to feel better about why bad things happen to good people.

Sunny 11-20-2003 12:03

{Pamela}

Hey guys, I'm ba-a-a-ck! I haven't been absent due to writing, unfortunately, but just dealing with life's general bummers, trying to curb my homicidal tendencies at work, etc. Some good has happened too, my brother is still here with me and we just found him a house to rent a few blocks away from mine. He is moving from Alaska and I haven't seen much of him for the past two decades so it is great to have him here, but it will also be nice to have my tiny house to myself again. I'm determined to get out of the restaurant business now that all such work sucks; it used to be that if you had a crummy job, you could always find another, and I liked the flexibility that restaurant work provided. Since corporations have taken over, however, they all have us lowly-paid ($2.13 per hour) servers doing work that used to be done by kitchen people, leaving us hardly any time to take care of customers, the primary source of our income. Now I have to decide whether to try to get back on my book (which I still have a great deal of faith in) or re-open my architectural design business, which got off to a wonderful start but closed almost immediately when the insurance company that was supposed to help me get into another occupation ripped me off and suddenly cut off my assistance (I know you all will find that hard to believe). On a positive note, if I DO kill someone at work, I can probably get off on an insanity plea, since a doctor and therapist both said I shouldn't return to restaurant work. Just kidding---or am I? (Evil laugh)

Teekay, you crazy Aussie, big congrats on your first writing payment, however small, I know that feels good!

Natasha, some of us here would be interested in hearing about your supernatural experiences but your lack of punctuation is distracting; if you are in university, presumably you know how to capitalize the proper "I"? Using "i" instead is sooooo high school.

Howard, I gather that Dorie has a sprained back, I hope she recovers quickly and completely. You DO know not to put a red shirt in with whites, don't you? And happy belated birthday, 39 again?

Sunny, good to see you and thanks for the writing tips, I'll read that more carefully later and hopefully develop some good writing habits while dealing with life's hardballs.

Jon, I think bonny Prince Charles is getting quite enough kisses, thanks very much :).

Mel, I'm sorry for your loss, I'm sure you will miss your dad. But remember that he has "died" only from our point of view, really he has just left and gone on to another place, all a part of life.

Peas and love,




pamela 11-20-2003 10:44

Hey, y'all!
Sorry I haven't stopped in for a while. I've been so busy with school work and such. Actually, that's why I'm on, I need to find information on Crohn's Disease. Do any of you know anyone who has it? It would be great if I could get a couple of first hand experiences. If you find any information on it, could you send it to lvw_euph13@yahoo.com ? I'd really appreciate it.


On a lighter note, i have another poem for y'all to read.

Plea to My Muse

An empty pen
A wayward muse
Has left me dry
I've no more use
I need an idea
Fresh and with drive
With some spunk
That says "alive!"
But my muse has left me
And I'm all alone
Looking for the meat
And finding the bone
"My muse come back!
Give me consideration
I need you quickly
For some inspiration
Fill my pen
With ideas and dreams
And my paper with words
Just give me the means!
Maybe a shortie
Something short and sweet
Or possibly a poem
That has a steady beat
Maybe a novel
Possibilites are endless
But I need you, muse
Don't leave me friendless!
By contract, you're mine
Loyal companion and friend
With the perfect beginning
And just the right end
So, just once more
I give you my plea
I want to write
Please, come back to me!"

Copyright: Elaine @8:25 pm 11-12-03

Well that's all from me for a while. I'll be back to check on things. See y'all later!
Till Niagara Falls!

Elaine 11-20-2003 10:10

"The Civilized Male" Chapbook
Over the next two months I will be accepting submissions from short story writers, poets, artists, and photographers. The Chapbook will be published in February 2004. This opportunity is for both published and unpublished men and woman. This is a great opportunity for the unpublished to get into print and get paid for your work. Please e-mail an inquiry of interest to "The Civilized Male" Chapbook at william_hagan@excite.com


William Hagan Williamhagan.com 11-20-2003 5:50

Drive-by-post

RANDALL check out the link below, you'll love it.

Weatherman is eating his hat tonight, seems the two foot of snow he predicted is now to amount to a trace....\

think we need a new weatherman.

Jerry Flag 11-19-2003 22:41

gee sorry all,
sorry about my bad hair day at least now i have some more insight into who was trying to make contact.i'm glad to be here i coulndt stop thinking about the s**** that i wrote and how stupid i feel.I should not have stereotyped all americans your right about that, its just that i couldnt figure it out ,and i do realise that there is good and bad in every race i got e.mailed from some guy in a refugee camp with his missus and kid. so sorry about that jay but why that country?I mean why are you refugee in that country why not america?Ive never worried about money i was raised in a low income family .i'm feeling very dubious about this guy and i dont want to end up in any sort of trouble. i've been warned about viruses and how people use others to hack into each others commputers and use there e.mail addresses. I trully hope that this is not what this is all about.I would like to share my spiritual experiences if anybody is writing about the subject I dont think i would like to write a book myself though I am still trying to learn how to write university essays again I am very sorry about my outbursts I am always up front or what people here call straight up.And friend that's terrible how did you get caught ?Buy for now.

lid 11-19-2003 22:01

It's all that being upsidedown, blood rushing to yer head kinda thing.

I've never been to Owstraylyuh, but I've seen an Owstraylyun movie.

Mark 11-19-2003 21:49

Randall

Evening gang...

Boy is it nice in Texas! Jerry, temps are in the 70's, bright clear sky, fantastik!

Eddie French...amen to strange! I just wish some of these folks would stay around...at least control their thoughts...and offer a little more info rather than indulge in some weirded out cyber speak. Attempts to seek new forms of written communication usually fail because there is really nothing new under the sun. Still....

Howard... movies that make one cry.... interesting. When I was young John Wayne's movie ALAMO did. (To this day I cannot listen to Green Sleeves.) Most Texas lads cried when OLD YELLER had to be shot. Darn skunk! As an adult???? Well ... (pause) I saw a TV made movie one time with Richard Harris. He, I believe, had a pet goose? He took a small boat to help at Dunkirk when the Brits were forced to evacuate in 1940 (1941?). I believe he died and the goose circled overhead and then flew away. Bawled big time over that. Then, when the "good sergeant was killed in PLATOON as the helicopters flew away leaving him to die. Very bad scene. I try to stay away from movies like that. I have only been able to watch parts of the Mel Gibson movie WE WERE BOYS THEN (?) Too many bad thoughts of Vietnam. No, not what I did, but what I didn't do...

Glad to hear Dorie is up and around... I told my lovely spouse that once after a period of declining health (25 years) "Honey, glad to see you up and around."

She grabbed my lapels, jerked me up and snarled in her charming Ma Kettle voice. "I'm not round punk! It's time for you to knock off the fat jokes and take out the trash you weinie!"

Women, huh? (GRIN)

Jerry...my son in Minot has a computer now. Still can't get much communication out of him!!! He goes to a border town in Canada with his buddies, drink and party. (Sigh) Well, I can't be judgmental cause when I was in the Navy I did the same thing..., ah, in the South Pacific that is. Still, I wish he would do as I suggest rather than do as I did. I asked him what the base did when weather closed in. He said ... weather was not a factor and their operations went on. Which makes a lot of sense... "STOP THE COUNTDOWN! HOLD THE BOMBERS! It's starting to snow now. Our response will have to wait for clear weather! Inform the president!"

BTW... did anyone see that ex-general who is running for the democratic nomination (can't remember his name) weird out the other night. The day before he commented that the war in Iraq was a side-show. When the newsman asked if that was fair to the men who have died there, General what's his name freaked out! Big time. Said he never said that! Gave me the willies. Just who we need for president! An officer like the mad general in DR. STRANGELOVE ... General Jack D. Ripper!!! Emotions too close to the surface and quick on the nuclear trigger!

Better split...my wife read the mention of her earlier. Hold the war! Storm clouds coming!!!!

(GRIN)

Randall

Randall 11-19-2003 21:32

Hello, cats and people!

After a period of happiness in which I read thousands of books and wrote two volumes of a most intimate diary, I decided to get a broadband Internet connection and see how life has been treating my Notebook friends. I'm glad that all of you are still alive. Here's our program for the near future:

1. Stop all kinds of wars immediatelly. Okay, until next weekend.

2. Read everything we can about the wonderful poetry of the Arab world. It's really very good. I also love their architecture.

3. Watch the great match England vs. Australia on Saturday. It's rugby (not soccer unfortunatelly) but it's the world cup final. Sport is the best way to dissipate our natural frustration for not writing that masterpiece we promised to write and which we have been procrastinating . Well, it's time to write it right away.

Jon 11-19-2003 16:04

Hi All,

MARK: Why do you think they/he/she are from over thisaway?
If it's a spelling thing, then England has the same spelling.
If it's anything else, why then, I oughta.....

HOWARD: That's wonderful. Bet Dorie can't wait for the day she can do all the laundry and cooking and so on, by herself :-^

Thanks all for the encouraging words. Almost threw the cheque out yesterday while sorting through a pile of junk mail stuff -it's not worth a whole lot monetarily, but it surely do have deep sentimental value :-).

Ggooiinngg..................................


Teekay 11-19-2003 15:39

Strange people Around here lately
:¬)

Eddie French 11-19-2003 15:00

TEEKAY,

Congratulations on your short story. I am sure that first check will always be special indeed.



NATASHA or LID,

I think in the midst of your post, you took a few slams at Americans. I believe you said something about ignorance and arrogance being some of our characteristics. I was not sure, because you do not use punctuation and express yourself very well, so I was do not know whether or not to be insulted, being that I am an American. Having only your post to go by, I would conclude that ignorance is by no means just an American thing.

Well, today is a good day, and I refuse to receive any slights, real or perceived, from your post. Perhaps you are just having a bad day. I will just be thankful that I am not poor JAY who has somehow earned your disdain.

Rhoda 11-19-2003 14:47

I just finished watching THE TWO TOWERS, extended version. It rocks!!! I cannot wait to see THE RETURN OF THE KING.



Rhoda 11-19-2003 14:25

**Taylor**

Mark: If Natasha is an Aussie... Hope you won't hold it against the rest of us Aussies. LOL

Gabrielle: Please stay. I'm sure you're not as stupid as you say you are. And no offence to the others in here, but we're not as smart as we seem at times.

Tammi: Welcome.

Teekay: Congratulations on the payment.

Taylor 11-19-2003 11:22

you guys sound really smart, im stupid so bye

Gabrielle zup 11-19-2003 10:36

you guys sound really smart, im stupid so bye

Gabrielle zup 11-19-2003 10:36

Any bets? NatashaLidTammi is from Oz.

Mark 11-19-2003 6:42

RACHEL: I seem to have a problem with the email right now. I guess I have a virus somewhere. Anyway, we just went on strike today--don't ask, coz I didn't like that new car anyway--so I have lots of time on my hands at the moment. I have picket duty tomorrow (just my luck the rotation starts on my day), so if you want to phone me, or me phone you, we'll talk on Thursday.

Ben 11-19-2003 2:15

hi~ everybody.. i m tammi.
i just want to write few words..
New directions of whereabout...
our lives r passing throuh this sophisticated journey of cycle.. seeing the truth of world depens on each one of us....
realizing the presense of this moment suffocates us......
delusions of minds ....
more difficult to arrange the reality than to follow it.....





tammi 11-19-2003 2:11

Ben,

You will need to send me your snail mail address. I have started to review the works that you gave to me. I will return them to you one at a time (not as an act of terror, but simply because I want to get them back to you as I go over them). After you have seen what it is that I have to say, you can let me know if you would like me to drop dead, or send on the next one ;o) Either way I'm cool. Can't say that I would drop dead on request, but you could always ask (grin/snort/wink).

Ciao for now.

RDRKO

Rachel 11-19-2003 0:30

Ok now first off, I realize insanity is simply a state of mind.

I think I'm approaching the border of that state.

Have been FORMATING and SETTING UP computers now for the last four or five days, again, if I ever find one of those little A__ holes who put out those viruses, I may well kill them where they stand!!!!

Enough complaining. I see we have a new member, one who has no idea what writing is all about, or at least wants to make it look that way. What ever, I guess we can well ignore such rantings, much the way many ignore mine when I get on my soap box from time to time.

Rest assured, getting it off your chest, even in a place such as this tends to take the pressure off to some extent, and perhaps, by letting her post here, we are preventing a crime against someone else should the nut crack up completely.

Jon good to see you again, it's always a pleasure.

Howard - Great news, I'm so very pleased things are going Dori's way. The meal sounds great, although my aging system would not permit my sampling such fine foods as the sourkrout despit my foundness of that wonderfully sour treat.

Mark - LINUX is looking better and better as the days go by, perhaps when they get wine perfected so the wife can play her windows games on it, I can introduce her to the simple pleasures of Mandrake.

The weatherman is threatening us with a blizard. Hard to believe since we've had a warm spell of late, in fact it was in the 50's today, and he says to expect the mid to high 60's tommorow, then the storm should start, perhaps on Thursday night, possiably as late as Friday night. Current predictions say we will receive between a foot and 25 inches of the white crap, pushed by winds up to 60 miles per hour, a true midwest blizzard the likes of which we haven't seen in several years.

Funney, I used to dread those storms when I was working, simply because when bad weather strikes the police are expected to do everything for the public, from delivering grocerys to snowed in old folks to delivering babies in cars half burried in snow banks. In small towns, the cops are forced to use the old 4 wheel drive pickup trucks to do their patrol and rescue, well they used to, now most small towns have at least one 4 WD SUV, thanks to the national war on drugs (the Fed says then need them to transport arrested drug offenders??? But it's nice that they get them from the Fed anyhow).

Now though when I can simply sit at home and watch the snow blow by the window, it doesn't seem to bring up the dread it used to, in fact I sort of look forward to it, for the change of pace. I filled our gas cans up today (expensive trip that!) so I can run the snow blower when it's over and open the drive way, and a path to the garbage cans in the back yard. ALso have to insure we have a clear path to the garage so I can smoke the turkey we have thawing.

Randall - big news in Minot - they've had their first murder since the mid 90's (I think that's what the newsman said) no big manhunt though the killer drove to a neighboring city and turned himself in. It was a boyfriend - girlfriend thing. It made the news in both North and South Dakota, along with the story of the young Native American who was killed in Iraq when his Helo crashed.

Rush has returned to the airwaves Monday, I got to listen to him for an hour or so. Missed his show today as the wife got control of the sterio this morning and put on Christmas Music so she could decorate the house. Maybe I'll get him on the truck radio on the way to Bismarck tommorow, we've got to get up there and do a bit of Christmas shopping before the big storm hits, it takes a long time to clean up after one of those three or four day blizzards.



Jerry 11-19-2003 0:25

JON -- Welcome back! I mean it! Welcome!

RANDALL -- Thanks -- Dorie is indeed almost pain free, just tired, and a good kind of aching. like the kind you expect when using muscles that haven't been used correctly in a while. We think she's going to be fine -- as long as she doesn't get impatient and run ahead of the doc and therapist. I let her help me with the dishes tomight. She dried a few and put them away. Then I let her help fold the laundry -- only one load of the three. Even let her help fix supper! We tried a new recipe -- sourkraut with apples, potatoes, onions, sweet red peppers, caraway seeds and brown sugar, with kielbasa. I let her cut up the potatoes and apples. It was delicious! But she gets frustrated because she can't do it all. The next six weeks is going to be rough on her, but she has to understand that she needs to let me carry to load for a while. Otherwise her back is not going to heal properly, and she'll be right back in that never ending cycle of pain and misery.

We just watched "Field Of Dreams" again. I cried again. Always do. So did she.

NATASHA -- ????? How expensive is whatever it is that you're smoking? Can you get it over the counter?

Gotta go write an essay on anthropocentrism.

'bye!



howard 11-18-2003 22:57

.hello it's lid again i'm really sorry i came here this is the last time, i trusted you. You know who you are as well as i do i cant trust you anymore liar please dont send anymore shit to me if you want to know something you should of asked me to my face! I am dissapointed with you ,forked tongue ,two heart, i feel really sad man , man i meant it when i said i've always loved you but am sad at your actions and its broken my heart, i'm not going to have an easy time getting over this i saw your fellows comments running me to the ground and i want to burn the taia but i wont,Its probably not a good idea to ever see each other again corrupter,you are as bad as most not all of your colleagus. see ya in hell!

last time from lid 11-18-2003 21:27

Randall

Hi...

Well ... son-of-a-gun ... Jon, welcome back my friend. And how are Americo and Pussy?

Jack...an evening well spent...

Howard ... I hope Dorie is without pain...

Natasha ... welcome. No one is perfect so your initial post, however incoherent, will work for now. Additionally, our posts may contain a misspelled word or two or three. I know it's hard to believe but most of us believe in and practice capitalization. Proper punctuation is a real plus. Coherence is very helpful. Naturally, formatting counts. Paragraphs are helpful. I'm not sure why, but some people insist on them. Long, run on sentences are difficult to read. Maturity is of significant concern girl. And writers read between words, between sentences, thereby establishing who is whom... Inventing cute little words "fullas" "korero" "papatuanuku" et al reek of immaturity.

Oh, one other thing... GOD AND AMERICA AND AMERICAN ARE ALWAYS CAPITALIZED!

But...that aside...lets hear supernatural...

Randall

Randall 11-18-2003 20:47

Follow up on my earlier message. Well, here goes the spammer. As mentioned, I will attempt to get things rolling on an updated version of the Notebook so I can block specific spammers. Sorry I am a little busy.

Jack


Jack Beslanwitch 11-18-2003 20:45



lianchun yang china jilin shanwei wollastonite mining co., ltd. 11-18-2003 20:36

Just got my extended version of Lord of the Rings Two Towers with 40 plus additional minutes of new material added. Look forward to sitting down some time tonight and going through it. Have been somewhat busy with other things. Hope to get to searching out a php version for the Notebook and additional login and password capacity so that we can block some of the spammers. Other than that, I am beginning to update forwriters.com finally. At least, I have added a donation button. Paypal for now and sometime this week Amazon. However, am beginning to do some writing that is centered around my diving and hope to get some of that up for perusal either here or up on the Workbook. Might even add a few pictures to go with the text :-).

Jon: Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. Nice seeing you here.



Jack Beslanwitch forwriters.com 11-18-2003 17:11

Well, Well,Well,
My name is lid. You know i found this website because i was looking for jay yip jay hole the a hole, the whinger who popped up on my commputer uninvited. So i decided to look through all your fullas chat. What a COINCIDENCE i notice alot of the korero was about education the things i discussed wit jay hole the a hole.Yer i love to write but i still gotta lot to learn. Now i dont mean to be horrible but jay was very american to me rather ignorant and selfish , i dont know shit about politicks see i'm always having a moan to god i say "look can ya just get on with it none of us deserve this planet especially those of us living in an amerian based society and if ya dont agree your lying our whole worthless existence depends on burning the non renewable mineral resources of papatuanuku oh yer jay i think you are gay, but ya know thats ok. Anyway me and the supernatural get on well and if you people can tolerate me i can share my supernatural experiences with you all only if your willing though see i cant help kinda feeling pissed off coz that pop up up page led me straight here to people who by the sounds of things share my same interests which i hope is not a bad thing see its not like me to trust people very easily i'm sick of being called crazy . well ya know i cant blame you people if you dont want to know me see i know that the truth hurts and i unintentionally hurt people with it.it's ok to get back to me if you dare ,and i think the site is interesting.well gotta go .bye

Natasha leef you know 11-18-2003 12:17

Hey Jon,

Nice to see you pussy footin' around the site ;o) Hope your internet issues will iron out crisp and clean.

Teekay,

You go girl!

Rachel 11-18-2003 11:35

TEEKAY -- BRAVO!


howard 11-17-2003 20:10

Hi All,

Yesterday got my very first cheque for a short story. I'm going to frame it and hang it next to my wad of rejection slips.

Going...

Teekay 11-17-2003 15:34

Hi Rachel,

I got your email about Pessoa. Thanks. I'm in the process of getting a new Internet connection, experimenting with new software and all that. Boring. I'll write to you when I can (I don't know when but I hope it will be soon).

Kisses to all, mainly to Prince Charles

Jon 11-17-2003 15:18

Hi

11-17-2003 6:13

Hi Laura - good news, there's a workbook again,look at the dropdown menu at the top of the page on the left side. Not the same one, this one's better I think, more orginized, well differently organized at least.

Think I recall a Laura that mostly posted in the workbook back around the time of the online novel, something about a dream??? It's been a long day and my mind isn't all that it once was.

The virus infection still spreads, somehow it got back on my damn network so I've knocked down all the network, the internet access, the works (well except for this machine, and I just reformated it a few minutes ago AGAIN!!!)

If I ever catch that little bastard that starts one of these viruses, I guarantee he'll NEVER reproduce!!!, I'll treat him like the old story about the farmer and the two bricks!!



Jerry 11-17-2003 0:31

MEL,

I am so sorry about your father. Losing a parent is rough. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

HOWARD,

Still thinking about DORIE. I hope the healing is fast.



Rhoda 11-16-2003 22:39

TEEKAY -- Hi! Yes, it was chocolate, and thanks!

howard 11-16-2003 21:56

Hi All :-)

HOWARD: Correct me if I'm wrong, but HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!

May it be chock full of good things and chocolate cake too.

LAURA: Congratulations to you :-)

Going...

Teekay 11-16-2003 15:37

LAURA -- I remember a Laura from way back then. Welcome back! And congratulations on the poem!

SUNNY -- thanks for the pointer to the page -- looks interesting & useful.

MARK -- yes, I remember you had that carcinoma removed. I know it's just a minor thing, but just the word gives one the heebie-jeebies! Now every new spot and wrinkle makes for interesting thoughts...

ALL -- have you seen the new "in the book" search tool on the AMAZON.COM web page? THey've scanned the full text of 150,000+ books (more coming) and you can search for a word or phrase within the text (not just title) of all these books. It's amazingly fast, and returns the word/phrase, and a page on each side of it. Can't print it (copyright) but it gives the source so you can buy or borrow the book/essay/etc. GOOGLE is coming out with the same thing soon. It looks like it will be very useful as a research tool!


howard 11-16-2003 14:38

Well, I got my first acceptance...it was a poem. Nevermore Magazine paid me 5 dollars for a poem of mine. I don't know if you still remember me, I was here when there was a workbook.

Laura Geannitales web ring 11-15-2003 22:37

HOWARD -- 5 or 6 months ago (sorry, I'm not getting up right now to look at the calendar) I had a basal cell cancer removed from my ear -- along with a piece of ear. Plastic surgeon put it all back together nicely. And those actinic keretosis things, last three years I've had bunches frozen off. They lose count. I get billed for 20 because they never really know how far beyond that they went.

Glad it's just muscle with Dorie. Though a sprained back muscle hurts more than a break.

Mark 11-15-2003 15:08

This may be a particularly useful newsletter:


Breaking the Spell:

Making time to write with a day job and family obligations isn’t easy.
Neither are the isolation that comes with the act of writing and the
rejections all writers must face. Often the barriers that stand between
our intentions and our writing seem insurmountable.

When I teach my Get the Writing Habit class, I ask the participants to
make a list of everything they can think of that stops them from
writing. I won’t let them quit until they’ve come up with at least 20
items. Their complaints range from having no writing space to
significant others who don’t understand them. They kvetch about the
puppy that poops beneath their desk and a computer that works only
sporadically. They gripe about mean editors and not being good enough.

Once the lists are completed, together we read them aloud with feeling.
As the rising cacophony of whining, ranting and wailing fills the room,
the whole atmosphere magically changes. When the last lament has been
voiced, we sit silently feeling how we are affected by the experience.
Some say it sets their teeth on edge. Others are queasy. Headaches and
muscle pains aren’t uncommon. A few people feel like crying. No one
feels like writing.

After we’ve processed the power of hopelessness, I have them go through
their lists again and rephrase each complaint as a question. “I can’t
write because my kids always interrupt me,” becomes “How can I get my
kids to stop interrupting me so I can write?” “My computer is ready to
die,” is transformed into “How can I get a reliable computer?”

Once a complaint becomes a query, its nature is transformed. Complaints
trick us into thinking that they are facts of life and that we have no
choice but to accommodate ourselves to them. Queries define challenges
that have solutions.

Before we begin the task of brainstorming those solutions, we have
another group reading. This time, as we voice our questions, the
atmosphere in the room lightens. People sit up straighter. Their body
posture is more open. Hope becomes a tangible presence.

Solutions to situations that seemed hopeless ten minutes before suddenly
present themselves. The parent whose children interrupt decides to try
instituting a system of rewards for good behavior. If that doesn’t
work, then Plan B will be to find a writing buddy with children and
trade babysitting for a few hours a week. The writer with the failing
computer can take it to a repair shop for an estimate. If the problems
can’t be fixed, he can begin doing some comparison shopping.

I’m convinced that complaints are negative spells that freeze us into
hopeless immobility. Hopeless immobility is just a synonym for writers’
block. Questions imply an openness to answers and they thaw our
resistance to writing so that we can once again move forward.

Creative Write:

Try making a list of the circumstances in your life that stop you from
writing. When you’ve finished, do a five-minute free write on each
item. Allow yourself to vent the mental moaning and whining that has
become the soundtrack to your writing life. Check in on how all these
complaints cause you to feel.

Now turn each complaint into a question. Do a timed free write for each
question. During your free-write, jot down all the solutions that come
to mind. Turn off your internal censor. Your job isn’t to judge; it’s
to brainstorm as many solutions as you can.

Begin with one item from your list. Choose a solution you can start
putting into practice today. Go do it.

Writing Markets:

Julie Heath is looking for brief, well-written stories for an anthology
about angelic assistance called Then Along Came an Angel. She’s
extended the deadline through December 2003. Contributors will receive
$25 and a copy of the book. Read Julie’s guidelines at
http://www.juliebonnheath.com/anthology_submissions.htm

Living Stupid: Dumb Things Smart People Do, an anthology edited by
Stephanie Marston, who co-authored Chicken Soup for the Empowered
Woman’s Soul, will be a collection of humorous, true stories. Marston
says she wants stories about the stupid things you’ve done “At Work,
Around the House, At Play, In Love, Outdoors, On Vacation, In
Friendship, With Children, With Your Parents, With Your Pets, By
Yourself, and During Sex.” Maximum word count is 1,200 words and
payment is $100. Send your story to Living Stupid, P.O. Box 31453,
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87594-1453 or email them to samarston@earthlink.net
by March 15, 2004.

Joan Chatfield-Taylor is editing an anthology called It’s Never Too
Late. Seal Press is the publisher. She is looking for stories about
midlife transitions that involve risk and affect relationships with
friends and family. These changes could involve work, personal life,
location or lifestyle. She will consider both new material and reprints.
Payment is $150 and two copies of the book. Submit stories between
1,000 and 5,000 words to Joan Chatfield-Taylor, 2066 Green Street, San
Francisco, CA 94123. For complete guidelines, e-mail
joanct@earthlink.net. Please put the words Never Too Late in the
subject line of your message.

Chicken Soup for the Recovering Soul wants stories from people in
recovery. This anthology pays $300 for the stories they accept. The
deadline is February 2004. For more details, go to
http://www.chickensoup.com/

The Wall Between the Names: An Anthology of Poetry, Prose and Creative
Nonfiction about the Vietnam Era is seeking work from people who were
impacted by the war. The editors are looking for pieces by
non-combatants, refugees and vets who came home when the war was still
being fought. Submission guidelines are posted at
www.onceuponastory.com.

There’s Always a Story is looking for 2,000 to 3,000 word short stories
and travel essays. Those that are accepted will be read aloud and
distributed to spas and hotels as a guest service. Writers will receive
$250 for each accepted piece. Find out more at
www.theresalwaysastory.com.

If you find this newsletter useful, please forward it to a friend.

To subscribe go to www.kporterfield.com and click on the newsletter
subscription box or log on to http://www.topica.com/lists/creativewrites

Good Writing!

Kay Marie Porterfield
www.kporterfield.com

Sunny 11-15-2003 13:10

Howard,
Had one of those things removed a couple of years ago. Coincidentally, it was right next to my right elbow.
It was done with Local Anesthetic and took about 10 minutes in the doctors surgery. It's really no problem if you don't look. Came back clear anyway.
Good Luck.
Ed

Eddie French 11-15-2003 6:48

Look at that, I screwed up copyright, again. I don't know why I keep doing that.

gariess 11-14-2003 17:26

Howard,

I do sympathize with you for all your medical problems. I wish you and Dorie well. Medically speaking, we do not improve with age.

So, copywrited? Does that offer immunity to redundancy and overexposure... and redundancy and overexposure? I wouldn't consider it a missed opportunity for you, however. There is still vegetable, beef barley, and minnestrone. Heavens the list is practically endless. Personally, I am considering copywriting something in the chowder line. Possibly Oyster Stew for the sole (filet of.)

gariess 11-14-2003 17:24

GARIESS -- That whole "Chicken Soup" thing is copyrighted, and they've had pretty good success with the various target categories. I thought it was a pretty good idea myself, and wish I'd thought of it first! :-)

I was on my way in to school yesterday, and almost there when Dorie called me on my cell phone. She was crying, and in pain, so I turned around and headed back home.

She had turned to do something, and felt something "pop" in her back, with immediate sharp burning pain. I got home and got her quieted down, and gave her the pain meds and muscle relaxants to ease things. She doesn't like to take them at all, but she did then, and they helped. It was apparently just a muscle spasm -- the doc had warned us about them -- and it's settled down now, and she felt good enough to go into town with me this morning. My turn at the doc...

Now I have to go back next THursday to have something removed from beside my right eyebrow. He's certain that it's a basal cell cancer, and he wants to remove it and send it out for biopsy. Then he found a couple of small cysts on the back of my neck (they've been bothering me for a while) that he wants to remove also. He doesn't think these are cancerous, but wants to be on the safe side. It never rains but what it pours! Or something like that..

Not really concerned about it, but it does make one stop to think...

--

From the "Kids Say the Darnedest Things" category:
Our daughter and son-in-law in AZ were eating supper the other night, and four-year-old grandson Stephen choked on something (not serious, just coughed). Kris -- who is preggers and having chronic heartburn problems -- asked "Did it go down the wrong pipe?"
Stephen just looked at her, and thought for a minute, then asked "What color are our pipes?"
His dad said he didn't know -- it was just a saying.
Then Stephen put on his "lost in thought" face, and just sat there considering. After a few minutes he opened his eyes and said "I think I know, 'cause I just saw them. Daddy's and my pipes are light gray cause we're okay, but Momma's pipes are red 'cause she's got heartburn!"
His Dad asked how he knew that, and he said "'Cause I just closed my eyes and saw them."


howard 11-14-2003 15:49

I thought I would take a minute to get critical, here. When I say critical you know I am talking about myself. If someone else were to do it, they would be just plain mean. It's about this recurring post by someone who represents "Chicken Soup for the..." something or other. My problem is with the ripping off the "chicken soup" deal by all kinds of bandwagon jumpers since the whole chicken soup thing got started in the first place. If I am not mistaken, it was CHICKEN SOUP FOR THE SOUL, or some such thing and I can't think how long ago it was. Since that time so many "Chicken Soup for" things have come along that I would think anyone would shudder at the thought of such an originality deficit. The next time I see "Chicken Soup" I hope it's on a menu. Chicken soup for LUNCH.

Earlier I was bored and I got the idea to go looking through the NB archives. I went back randomly to a couple of years ago. There was a time when there seemed to be a discussion about some sentences, and different people put their oars in. I read one of my posts and I was astounded. I thought, My God, did I write that? I didn't even know I knew that. Wow, I had no idea I was so smart. But then I saw some other stuff I put in the NB, and I thought, Wow, what a putz. I never knew I was so dumb.

gariess 11-14-2003 1:05

Ok, one more time, this time with feeling!

I had this long boring post all typed up yesterday, and when I hit the enter, I got that damn "page not found" error, and when I hit the back arrow it was gone. I simply threw up my hands in disgust since my whole week has been like that. Not that I'm complaining, things could be worse.

Found a virus on my computer last week, right after I reformatted because of a damn virus so I reformatted it yet again. Haven't even got it all put back together yet when the daughter comes over with her computer under her arms, has a virus on it, reformatted it for her. Then the wife's computer started acting funny, she found a stupid virus too.

Now you may think they were all the same viruses, but not so. I could blame the anti-virus programs, but the wife and daughter have Norton, I had Macaffe's didn't catch them till they'd done their damage.

SO the daughter takes her computer home a couple of days ago, it comes back again today, she had another infection, this time Norton and a special removal tool took care of it, or so I thought till she took her machine home and got back up to check her email... ANOTHER DAMN Virus! I told her to let Norton run while she's at work and see if it can clear it up.

Meanwhile a buddy drop's off two of his machines "kids got viruses" he says, so I low level format the machines for him and set them back up with his software.

WHEN WILL IT END??

Howard - Tell Dorie I'm think of her, and that it gets better day by day.

Eddie - went to that site, kind of eye opening. I guess I've always thought, like I suppose many do who don't live in the area that England should just get out of Ireland and let the Irish settle the problem, but then if Northern Ireland has been part of your country since the 1200's that doesn't seem practical, I mean we've only been a country since the 1700's and I know full well that we'd put up quite a battle should Canada decide that we should just give them Maine since it's quite far north, and after all they have more in common with the folks in Maine then we do here in South Dakota.

Strange how things look so very different from afar.

I see Yang has paid us another of his wonderful chalky visits, wonder how many orders he gets out of his drive-by posting.

I put a little short story in the workbook, but after I hit the post I began to see the errors so disregard it, I'll do a bit of work on it if I get time between all the damn computer fixing and virus killing. (Sure would like to get my hands on the little nerd who writes those damn things, after this week I'd probably kill more then his viruses!)

I'm dreaming of a Linux system, but I know I could never make the wife and daughter give up their games....

Now aren't you glad I got that error yesterday?

Jerry 11-14-2003 0:40

Dear Friends:



I am currently putting together a literary anthology of contemporary love letters and emails (submissions information page below). I am hoping to get letters from a broad range of peoples, varying in age, ethnicity, background and orientation. With this project, I hope to show that love is just as much uplifting as it is devastating, and to commemorate the beauty of the human soul, which is at its most eloquent when expressing love and loss. Please pass this email along to anyone you know who may be interested in submitting. Thank you!



Julia







The Untitled Contemporary Love Letter Project



Words can so often express ever so eloquently what we can not say, face to face. In the realm of love, both at its zenith and its nadir, the human soul is often laid bare and raw as one expresses the truth of one’s soul to another on the page. In a time when the written word as an artform seems to have been replaced by alternate forms of communication, I believe that our hearts and souls still thrive through the inktrail of a pen on paper or as text left behind by a pulsing cursor to be transmitted through the infinity of cyberspace, and though we express ourselves in our own unique way, the experience of love and loss will be revealed to be upmostly universal.



This is a call for submissions of authentic love letters/emails to be included in a yet untitled literary anthology. I am looking for a wide range of people, both in ages, backgrounds, ethnicity and orientation.



Subject matter for these letters/emails include but are not limited to:

--the reveal of feelings

--confessions

--break ups

--separations

--recounting memories

…or basically any kind of correspondence in which one person is truly baring his or her feelings or soul to the one they love (or in some cases, used to love). The tone of these letters can range from happiness, loss, anger, betrayal, hope, regret, bittersweet, etc.



Email/letter exchanges between two parties is highly encouraged, though a separate release form must be completed by both authors for publication.



Please email submissions to juliashih@msn.com (put “love letter anthology submission” in the subject line) and include a short description of the circumstances/relationship surrounding the letter(s). Release forms are available by email request. All submissions chosen for publication will require a signed release form. All material will be strictly confidential, reviewed only by me, the editor. Submissions will not be returned so please do not send originals. Not all submissions will be included in this anthology. Only submitters of letters/emails that I am interested in will be contacted.



Best of luck and I look forward to sharing your experiences with the world!



-Julia P. Shih (juliashih@msn.com)


Julia 11-13-2003 18:26

Teekay,

I'm looking forward to it :o)

Take care you.

RDRKO



Rachel 11-13-2003 11:53

RACHEL: Mission accomplished. It should be there in 10 days max.

Teekay 11-13-2003 1:04

Hi All,

RACHEL: Just another example of my annoying procrastinatory habits.
I PROMISE I shall send it today!

MEL: My condolences to you and ditto what TAYLOR said.

HOWARD: Me too, am keeping you and Dorie in my thoughts.

ALL: Well the pitter patter of tiny feet has come to our household once again, this time in the shape of a 9 week old doberman puppy. Within 10 hours of his being here he has thoroughly wormed his way into each and all of our hearts.

Have a great day all, and if you're not up to that just have a peaceful one.

Going...
to the post office.


Teekay 11-12-2003 15:29

Mel,
Sorry I missed your earlier post.
Had to backtrack to find it. Thinking about you.
Ed

Eddie French 11-12-2003 15:02

Mel: Sorry to hear about your father's passing... Hang in there and take care of yourself to. Don't forget we're all here for you, I'm sure I can speak for everyone on that

Taylor 11-12-2003 14:19

Hey Howard,

I wanted to let you know that I'm keeping you and yours in my good thoughts.

Heather are you out there? I keep thinking of you. I know what hard work it is to seek a publisher. I send you some hugs.

Teekay, I never got that thing that you said you were sending off to me. I guess the mail takes a long time from Auz to Can.

RDRKO

Rachel 11-12-2003 11:28

SUNNY -- I'm making chicken stock (and soup) this afternoon! Just finished boning some chicken breasts, and I always save the bones, etc for stock. Then I can the stock in the pressure canner so I have good stuff to use when I need it for cooking.

I just received this in an email, and it's great fun -- especially if you like horses! Wait until it loads, then click on each horse and listen to them sing. Get the timing right, and it's great! Click them on and off separately, and sing along!
http://svt.se/hogafflahage/hogafflaHage_site/Kor/hestekor.swf

or
http://tinyurl.com/2d8m
(if that long one doesn't work)

howard 11-12-2003 10:49

Mel, my heart goes out to you at this time of sadness. I'm finding Thanksgiving to be a very difficult time to plan for. You're right to celebrate his life, especially through his writing, but don't forget to take time for the necessary moments of grief at his loss. They come so unexpectedly.

Litter, congratulations. How wonderful to have a new life to cuddle.

Howard, don't forget to cook lots of chicken soup for Dorie and yourself!

Wishing you all some sunshine to make it through the darker days. :-)


Sunny 11-12-2003 9:27

Mel,

Who needs a warm drink, when I have your beautiful words (hugs to you). I will embrace the idea of you writing out his stories. I think that is fantastic! I saw a flicker of your father in your words. That poem has punch. I think you should use it as an epigram to his works that you will bring to the page.

I give you good vibes and wishes that all will be well with you at this time.

Take care you.

RDRKO



Rachel 11-12-2003 0:44

MEL -- I'm saddened to hear of your Dad's passing -- our prayers go out on your behalf.



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lianchun yang china jilin shanwei wollastonite mining co., ltd. 11-11-2003 21:30

Hi Jerry,
(The rest of you just talk amongst yourselves for a minute)
I thought you might like to take a look at this site. There is a good diary section posted by a platoon commander from the Light Infantry. It does a good job of outlining the problems we faced back then. Try to imagine that you were posted to another State in the US and had to put up with this sort of situation and you will get a good idea of what it is all about.
Ed

Eddie French NI - Small Wars 11-11-2003 16:39

Mark,

Back in the late sixties there were a couple of radio personalities on a Boston station that came up with one of these things on a daily basis. I know "things" betrays an uninformed manner of telling, but I confess I don't know what these are called, or it would be more accurate to say I don't know what name refines or modifies them sufficiently, because they are stories.

This one is from an old ball player who told of a pitcher from a visiting team named Mel Famey. On a Sunday afternoon during a heat wave the home boys were playing against Famey and his bunch when one them got the bright idea to send a couple of cases of beer to the visitors dugout, it seemed he remembered that Famey had a considerable weakness for the stuff.

By the end of the sixth inning Famey was so wobbly that he walked in enough runs to lose the game, since the relief pitchers were no more competent even in a sober state. The home boy put a special emphasis on the part where he mentioned "...we would never forget the beer that made Mel Famey walk us."

This Bud's for you, Mark, you deserve it.



gariess 11-11-2003 0:23

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Stephanie Marston, 505-989-7596
Kill Date: March 15, 2004


LIVING STUPID: DUMB THINGS SMART PEOPLE DO
Do You Have Funny Story?

Have you done something that was dumb but really funny? We all have. And now Stephanie Marston, Co-author of Chicken Soup for the Empowered Woman’s Soul is seeking stories for Living Stupid: Dumb Things Smart People Do. Now you have an opportunity to contribute to this new series by sharing your humorous, true-life experiences.

What makes a good Living Stupid story?

A Living Stupid story is a humorous, true story, that tickles your funny bone or makes you laugh out loud. It’s a story about something you’ve done that later makes you smack your head and laugh at yourself. (It can even be a funny story about someone else.)

Chapter headings will include dumb things people have done At Work, Around the House, At Play, In Love, Outdoors, On Vacation, In Friendship, With Children, With Your Parents, With Your Pets, By Yourself, During Sex. Anecdotes should be fun-loving--the more outrageous the better, but keep it clean and “printable.”

If you have a humorous life experience and would like to be included in Living Stupid: Dumb Things Smart People Do, send your story to Living Stupid, P.O. Box 31453, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87594-1453. Please keep a copy of your story, as submissions cannot be returned. Or email stories to samarston@earthlink.net. (We prefer emails!) The maximum word count is 1200 words. For each story selected for the book a permission fee of $100 will be paid for the rights. There are no limits on the number of submissions. Stories must be received no later than March 15, 2004.

PS: You can write your story anonymously is that’s more comfortable!!


stephanie marston 11-10-2003 12:45

Hello to all of you -

RACHEL - so glad you caught the little she-hee-hee. Hope you had cocoa to warm your frozen toes!

LITTER - Congratulations, Grand-da, and hugs to the sweet wee one.

HOWARD - Dorie has been in my thoughts and prayers - I had after-pains from my hip surgery too, the back re-learning to straighten itself is a gruesome feeling. Tell her to hang in there - soon, she'll feel like a new woman.

I've just spent four days at a statewide conference for librarians - learned a few things, heard a few authors speak - very entertaining, especially Rob Sawyer, who recently won the HUGO Award for his SF novel, HOMINIDS. I liked what he said about science fiction being "philosophical" fiction, the realm wherein we ask "What if...?" and explore the consequences.

Doubly inspired for my job as well as my #1 hobby, I returned home... to learn that my dear old dad was back in the hospital with pneumonia. As we prepared to make the two-hour trip to Syracuse to see him yesterday morning, the call came. My 91-year-old father has passed to the next world, and I shall miss him but will remember the sparkle in his eye as he enjoyed life, enjoyed people, and shared his great sense of humor with those who knew him best. He too was a writer, poetry and short stories, and I hope to transcribe some of his voluminous story notes during the rest of my own life journey.

When I was in high school, my dad wrote a tiny poem anonymously that I entered into a student literary magazine just to see it in print:

"Time flits by
in teeny little patches
as if it were lit
by a pack of burning matches."
-- Anonymous (aka Robert H. Case, my dad)

He was right about the time-thing.
Write your stories TODAY. And keep an eye on the lighter side of life so you may live to the ripe old age of 91 or more. Cheers to each of you - enjoy your day! :-]

Mel 11-10-2003 11:21

Imagine if you will....

A woman awakens. She runs into the cold, crisp morning air in bare feet and silk jammies, her long hair in a mess of curl/wave/disorder as she rushes to the gates, which her horses seem determined to run out of, only to dart away from at the last second, as if the latches on the gates were some sort of demond seed. Feel the frost melting on warm toes, that quickly turn to ice, the way that frozen sand and rock will cut warm flesh. Feel the chill of the blowing wind that comes from through the spaces cut in the trees or where trees have recently fallen wreaking havok on yard and ground, fence and post, to blow against one in ways never before felt. Feel the shot of wind from the kick of horses feet near ones face, the rush of anger and the heat of one punch, through fist and arm that connects with the bull headed animals thick headed jaw (grrrrrrr)! Ohhhhh yes, this is a vegetarian, animal lover before the first coffee (grins and laughter). After this, I called for reinforcement, hauling my wearing husband from his bed. with halters, carrots, hay and grain did we tempt this evil seed of a horse and, at last we did capture her wicked beautiful little self. After that, since we all were chilled to the bones, it was to work. We called for friends, who came with saw and ax. Neighbours came with tracktors (spelling) and with good humor to cheer our hot yet cold selves. We spent the day in hack, chop, burn and haul of rock and dirt. Now all that is left to do is haul a little more rock, a whole lot of sand, some rubber mats, 9 to 10 cubed yards of cedar shavings, make a fence and then it will be time for a little rest and relaxation. I figure another week or so and life will be back to normal around here. Truth be told I'm getting a little worn feeling. Went to see the specialist doc who told me I'm so messed up that he is sending be to a special specialist. Hum, that sounds not so great. Ah well, frig them all, I'm still going to get things done. They can fix the body mess up later (snort/grin).

Ciao for now.

RDRKO

Ben, Mandy, don't give up hope for my crit work. It is on the way and will be in your laps by two weeks after semesters end at the latest. I'm thinking of you both, but thinking of Hop first.

Rachel 11-9-2003 20:10

JERRY: My bottom is essential to my way of life, but I don't wanna talk about that either.
Hee hee.
BTW: I don't really get annoyed at computer talk, I just find it a bit dull (cos I don't understand it) and like to have a bit of a joke with you guys.
You keep talking about them all you like, if I didn't like it I could always skip it.

RANDALL: Ah yeah, I read that, but big deal. If people find out later that it's not for them or LDS beliefs don't mesh with their own then they can leave.
And if they're stupid enough to get sucked in to giving over money or what have you, then maybe they're overdue for a bit of learning one way or the other.
In the article you posted seems to me the other guy was the obnoxious one.
No one's got all the answers, so who really cares what religion people join so long as they're good to others.

And one of the guys who came avisitin' was really cute!!
He was an American boy from over Roswell way and now I know why they send 'em in pairs.
(Marge Simpson laughter)

On the writing side of life:
2nd week, 2nd chapter edit starts today.
Actually, I probably could have done half the mss by now, but.............

Anyway, have a great day all and today I give special thanks to my frriend the computer for without it it I would never know and love you all.



Teekay 11-9-2003 16:05

MARK -- That's it exactly -- she can't sit, stand, or walk like she used to, because the muscles are being retrained back to their 'correct' positions. The hospital therapists had her doing the stairs on the second day after surgery. She does quite well getting into our living room -- three steps down into it, and three back up -- but we don't have a hand rail on the stairs going up to our second floor, so she's sleeping in the spare bedroom on the first floor. Not enough room in the 3/4 bed to sleep two, so I'm still upstairs in the queen-size.
If it gets too cold I'll see if I can build in a railing! ;-)



howard 11-9-2003 13:37

Randall

Oh Boy Teekay!!!

Your query has all the potential fun and games of an unexploded 1,000 pound aerial bomb! Please forgive me if I beg out of that one. I posted an article of Mr. Kirby's in October and it still plays out on Mark and Howard's workbook. So I'll dodge most of your question.

However, from talking with missionaries from both sects I have concluded that the young ones have little sense of humor, know nothing of the historical aspects of their diffuse religions, while older members are engaging and fun to be around. One wonders if, all things being the same, that perhaps Jesus's disciples were folks of little humor but wry and humorous later in life? (If possible fleeing from irate mobs determined to add martyr to your name?)

I post the Robert Kirby articles because they offer insights with humor. Speaking of humor...a friend in Utah, not LDS, told me once to tell Church of Christ members in Texas that their religion were mostly wagon cart Mormons who turned left on the Great Plains instead of keeping straight on to Utah! I casually mentioned this some years later to a woman who USED to be my friend. She was not amused!

A Mormon Bishop in Utah once told me this one... "They have found away to clear thistles from Southern Utah. Oh yes, they pour Jack Daniels on them and Jack Mormons eat ‘em plumb to the ground!" He laughed heartily at his own joke.

(Jack Mormons are LDS in name only.)

Outta here...

Randall "Ducked" Henderson

Randall 11-9-2003 11:39

Litter Congrats on another milestone in life.

Teekay, yes but without computers you and I would never know the other was alive, the same goes for all who visit these pages of wisdom. Even if some find computers boring, if not very annoying (I must admit I get a bit annoyed at mine once in awhile, well all the time!)

Jerry 11-9-2003 0:26

Off chat

Mark 11-8-2003 20:32

OK. Chat on the other screen, catch-up on this one.

Litter -- Congratulations to you, your daughter, and granddaughter.

Howard -- One step at a time, eh? Cate goes to a chiropractor every three weeks. There's always a day, or part of a day, after an adjustment when she's uncomfortable. The body gets used to holding itself in odd ways. Changing back to normal usually feels bad. Can't imagine how much change there must be in a body that had two bad disks over a long time.

Gariess -- You heard the long tale of medieval times in Alsace-Lorraine? The border river between two feuding kingdoms became the home of a great monster they called Yellow Fingers because of its finger-like appearance as it rose from the river to drag down any knight who ventured across. Yet, from either side the king could send a page boy safely across. Thus the common wisdom: let your pages do the walking through the yellow fingers.

Jack -- Wow. Bad news about the diving gear. On the PHP thing, I have some time. Let me know what features you want, I can do some leg work (finger work, actually).

Mark 11-8-2003 20:31

8 p.m. new york standard time . Am in chat. Will hang for a while.

Mark 11-8-2003 20:06

RANDALL,

Nice article, and I identify after living six years in the four corners area of New Mexico. I had at least two people whisper to me the question, "Are you LDS?" There was a great social/cultural divide between LDS folk and non LDS folk there. It was unfortunate, but nonetheless true, and we would have all been happier if we dropped the code words and admitted it. I was often mistaken for Mormon because I have big teeth, good complexion and am a clean cut conservative type.



Rhoda 11-8-2003 19:26

Hi All, :-)

RANDALL: Maybe you can help with this. I get the feeling that Mormons and Jehovas are somehow different from the 'normal' religions.
Now, I've chatted with a few and I just don't get what the problem is.
Do you know?

Teekay 11-8-2003 16:34

Randall

FYI... This might apply to all religious convictions?

Kirby: ASKING THAT DELICATE QUESTION
Robert Kirby

Tribune ColumnistBy Robert Kirby
Salt Lake Tribune Columnist

You meet someone for the first time. You like them. They seem to like you. You have loads in common. But in Utah there is a delicate question begging to be asked, a query that could spoil everything.

Sooner or later, one of you just has to say it out loud: "Are you LDS?"

Comes now that nervous moment when the response could go either way. By this I do not mean "yes" or "no," I mean someone choosing to twist themselves into a snit over it.

The question may be asked for a variety of reasons. Maybe you only want to know just how much you have in common. Possibly, if you're an idiot, you want to know who to avoid in the future.

The last time anyone asked for my religion was on TRAX. I overheard a couple across the aisle wondering out loud when they should get off to see the Salt Lake Temple.

"Four more stops," I said. "Can't miss it. Gray building. Looks like a super-sized Alamo. Gold angel on top."

During the following conversation, the couple tentatively asked if I was a Mormon. I told them the matter was sometimes much debated but, yeah, I was.

"Then maybe you can explain some things for us," the woman said, and proceeded to ask questions that proved they were nice agnostic tourists.

I am never offended by the religion question. It takes far more serious probing into my personal affairs to really bother me, stuff like a mugging, a colono-scopy or an IRS audit.

For some people, however, religion is deeply personal. Inquiring what faith they practice is tantamount to casually asking if they are wearing a diaper, something that should never be done even if it's obvious that one (or both) need changing.

I understand the question from a Mormon perspective. If one social question can save another a hundred questions, or possibly a social gaffe, why not ask it?

Knowing that someone is LDS -- although certainly no guarantee -- answers potential future questions about alcohol, coffee, smoking, ice cream, swinger sex and sometimes politics.

But I can also understand the issue from a non-Mormon perspective. Nobody feels like being judged if the person doing the asking is Mormon, and the answer is "no."

I have seen that smooth look of superiority that comes over a person's face when they find out that you aren't a member of the "correct" faith. I have also seen that superior look arise when people find out that I'm LDS.

It is an issue fraught with peril. So, we dance instead of ask.

Locally, we look for all the stereotypical Mormon clues: big teeth, conservative look, mid-calf shorts, neat hair, CTR rings, garment lines, etc.

But it's getting harder to tell who is and who isn't. Lots of clean-cut Republican-looking people who aren't Mormons call Utah home. And there's no guarantee that the tattooed and pierced weirdo next to you isn't waiting for a mission call.

I know, maybe we should wear nametags. Or not. Thinking that we already have each other figured out would only further prevent us from actually getting to know each other.
-----
Salt Lake Tribune columnist Robert Kirby welcomes mail at 143 S. Main St., Salt Lake City, UT 84111, or e-mail at rkirby@sltrib.com.

Randall



Randall 11-8-2003 12:48

Randall

Hi gang...!

Stephanie ... ah, no not really anything to send. My life is a total bore and not much happens around here. Just a minute...

"Honey ... HONEY! The darn hogs are in the house again! WHAT? I can't understand what you're saying if you don't stop shouting. Well, close the bedroom door and get dressed! Shouldn't be naked this time of the day anyway. Save that sort of thing for the night! (Snicker) Just don't take after them with the shotgun. Last time that was a REAL SWINE disaster. Well ... there's a bag of corn on the floor next to the whiskey still in the bedroom. ON THE OTHERSIDE OF THE HOG! NO! NO! THE HARLEY! THE MOTORCYCLE! Stop screaming! They can't open the door. Well, they probably just want to come in and say hello. Jeeze, all they can do is look anyway. I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW MY PARENTS WERE MARRIED! Honey, listen to me! Sprinkle some corn the floor they will follow you out the back door! Just don't let'em get in the sour mash again."

Jesus H. Christ! I have to think of everything around here! Nothing worse than a bunch of drunk hogs stumbling around the den trying to work the remote control, channel surfing. Just like a bunch of men, want to see some woman naked, drink whiskey and watch Saturday afternoon football!!!

OH HELL! Now the mule is at the front door! Anyway Stephanie, guess I'll pass on the offer. Best of luck though.

Randall

Randall 11-8-2003 12:22

LITTER -- Great News! Give Katie a hug and a kiss for us!

Dorie is gaining steadily, and is about ready to tackle the stairs today. She had a confab with the doc, and he said that it really was much worse than he had anticipated. Evidently the herniated disk was impacting the nerves to both legs, and that's why she is feeling so much pain now -- the nerves/muscles are being returned to their proper state after so long a time in disarray.

This just in from an Efriend:

How Much Information? 2003 [pdf]
http://www.sims.berkeley.edu/research/projects/how-much-info-2003/

The research study documented on this site is a continuation of a study
conducted in 2000 that estimated "how much new information is created each
year." The results of the most recent study, which were published on October
27, 2003, show the approximate amount of new information stored on film,
magnetic, optical, and print media in the year 2002. This figure totaled
five exabytes, or five billion gigabytes. Different kinds of information
streams are also analyzed, consisting of radio, television, telephone, and
the Internet. These electronic data flows accounted for nearly eighteen
exabytes. Comparisons to the previous study are also drawn. The full report
of the study can be downloaded as a 112-page document or viewed online.

------
and I have trouble locating stuff in the phone book!

howard 11-8-2003 11:52

Congratulations Litter... That's great news!

Taylor 11-8-2003 7:34

I Can't say how impressed I am with the quality of the jingles, today. I have friends from Worcester, who moved here to retire (many folks from Worcester retire to the Cape, because Worcester is such a good place to be from.) I can't wait to tell this jingle to them. I suppose I should print it, but I don't think they are familiar with rorcesters, and the like.

You must understand that the Worcester of which I speak is of the Massachusetts variety. I have no wish to offend an allied nation with my remarks about the quality of life in a Worcester of which I know nothing. The one I do know of however, is a place of inestimable dreariness. As a good freind used to say of Worcester, Massachusetts, "I spent a week there, one night."

The place of which I speak is normally pronounced as though one was saying "wuss," as in "What a wuss," and adding "ter." So I know I will only confuse people who are likely to read "rorcester" as russ-ter, rather than as roos-ter. Whatever the case, it is a great jingle and it should amuse my freinds, quite thoroughly, as almost anything should amuse anyone who spent the better part of a lifetime in that unremarkable city.

Of course, what can one say about the frog and the bank teller, it's purely classic material. I'll be humming that one in my head all night.

Gariess 11-7-2003 20:42

HOWARD: I GOT IT! I GOT! Right off too. Well, nearly.
Best wishes to Dorie. This would be a good time for a massage.
Just take yourself down to Gorgeous Gretels and she'll see you right.
:-D
Yeah, I know, probably not as funny as I think it is.

JERRY: I GOT IT! I GOT IT! Only I don't feel quite so clever this time :-D

LITTER: Congratulations.
But being a Grandparent doesn't necessarily make one as old as dirt.
It's state of mind does that.

Going...

Teekay 11-7-2003 17:16

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Stephanie Marston, 505-989-7596
Kill Date: March 15, 2004


LIVING STUPID: DUMB THINGS SMART PEOPLE DO
Do You Have Funny Story?

Have you done something that was dumb but really funny? We all have. And now Stephanie Marston, Co-author of Chicken Soup for the Empowered Woman’s Soul is seeking stories for Living Stupid: Dumb Things Smart People Do. Now you have an opportunity to contribute to this new series by sharing your humorous, true-life experiences.

What makes a good Living Stupid story?

A Living Stupid story is a humorous, true story, that tickles your funny bone or makes you laugh out loud. It’s a story about something you’ve done that later makes you smack your head and laugh at yourself. (It can even be a funny story about someone else.)

Chapter headings will include dumb things people have done At Work, Around the House, At Play, In Love, Outdoors, On Vacation, In Friendship, With Children, With Your Parents, With Your Pets, By Yourself, During Sex. Anecdotes should be fun-loving--the more outrageous the better, but keep it clean and “printable.”

If you have a humorous life experience and would like to be included in Living Stupid: Dumb Things Smart People Do, send your story to Living Stupid, P.O. Box 31453, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87594-1453. Please keep a copy of your story, as submissions cannot be returned. Or email stories to samarston@earthlink.net. (We prefer emails!) The maximum word count is 1200 words. For each story selected for the book a permission fee of $100 will be paid for the rights. There are no limits on the number of submissions. Stories must be received no later than March 15, 2004.

PS: You can write your story anonymously is that’s more comfortable!!


stephanie marston stephanie marston 11-7-2003 16:56

And winter is upon us. It comes so suddenly that one's head spins. Two weeks ago we had all the windows open and most were complaining that they had shut down the air too soon. Last week at this time, I did the final mow of the lawn (didn't know it would be the final!) and put down the winter fertilizer to give the grass that extra boost when spring comes. The next day, six inches of snow, the following day another two inches, over the last week over twelve inches of the white crap. Had to get the dang snow blower out to make paths to the garbage rack, garage and clean the front drive, then had to clean a path so I could start the lawn tractor and put it in the garage for the winter, that after moving my smoker out of the way.

But it's all done, we put up the plastic just three days before the first snow when the temps were still in the high 70's. Ah but this is God's country and we all love it for what it is. The last major crime here happened over ten years ago when an outsider who was passing through killed one of our local cowboys. Before that it was twenty years ago when my dingy twin cousin's killed their husband, and would have gotten by with it since the old fart was nearly 90 had one of them not bragged about it while in the County Jail for rustling sheep.

Ya it's nice, quiet, peaceful and wonderful, if a bit boring at times, but we love it. Had a cowboy get drunk and bash up a bunch of cars that were parked at the bar the other night after his girl friend broke up with him. He's cooling his heals now in the county lockup, and will have to give up most of his next couple of years wages to pay for all the damage. BUT it did give everyone something to talk about, heck that'll be good to keep the jaws a bouncing for the next two, three weeks at the coffee joints and bars.

New cafe/nightclub opening up tomorrow, think I'll take the wife to the grand opening. It's in an old grocery store building, quite large, and the grand opening menu has just two entries, shrimp scampi, and prime rib (I simply love prime rib!)

It's great to see any new business opening, and in fact we've been blessed these last couple of years with new businesses moving in, nothing large but businesses non-the-same. Their filling the empty buildings that stood so sadly and watched the world go by. The State came by a couple of years ago with a huge wrecking ball and took down the ones that had fallen to ruin, parking lots now grace the building sites, and nobody seems to think there will ever be buildings there again, but hey it's nice to be able to park without worry.

Have five pounds of beef curing in the fridge, will smoke it up tomorrow to make jerky, one of my favorite treats. Sure am enjoying my new propane smoker. The temp is supposed to fall below zero tonight but warm up to the twenty's by noon, that should be warm enough to keep the smoker going strong in the garage ( I keep the big door open to let air in and smoke out ). So my day is planned for me. Today was taken by AS_ H_les who make viruses, found one on my machine, one on the wife's and one had managed to get on my internet server. How that happened I have no idea since I had just formatted the damn thing yesterday and put a new install of windows on!

DEATH TO VIRUS MAKERS!!!

Write on...

Jerry Ericsson Me 11-7-2003 0:30

A frog goes into a bank and approaches the teller, he can see from her nameplate that her name is Patricia Whack.

"Miss Whack, I'd like to get a $30,000 loan to take a holiday."

Patty looks at the frog in disbelief and asks his name.

The frog says his name is Kermit Jagger, his dad is Mick Jagger, and that it's okay, he knows the Bank Manager.

Patty explains that he will need to secure the loan with some collateral. The frog says, "Sure. I have this," and produces a tiny porcelain elephant, about half an inch tall, bright pink and perfectly formed. Very confused, Patty explains that she'll have to consult with the bank manager and disappears into a back office.


She finds the Manager and says, "There's a frog called Kermit Jagger out there who claims to know you and wants to borrow $30,000, and he wants to use this as collateral." She holds up the tiny pink elephant. "I mean, what in the world is this?"


(you're gonna love this)


(it's a real treat)


(a masterpiece)


(wait for it)


The Bank Manager looks back at her and says...

"It's a knickknack, Patty Whack. Give the frog a loan. His old man's a Rolling Stone."


Jerry Ericsson me 11-6-2003 23:42

Hi!
Not much time to do anything for a couple of days now -- Dorie is home, but hurting. The muscles that weren't bothering her before are now screaming as they readjust to their proper position.

A friend sent me this limerick today -- EDDIE and LITTER will probably get it right off, but some may not. (that's a clue)

There was a young lady from Worcester
Who dreamed that a rorcester sedorcester.
She awoke with a scream,
It was only a dream,
A spring in the mattress had gorcester.




howard 11-6-2003 23:16

Sorry I have been a little out of touch. However, kind of bumbed due to most of my dive gear getting stolen out of our car this past Saturday. Two regs, my prescription mask, dive computer, fins, dry gloves and more. Will try to get up the energy to hunt up a good php guestbook for replacement here in the coming week or two, but have been somewhat sidetrapped by the above issues. Take care everyone and hope they are well. Congrats to to the upcoming grandfather.



Jack Beslanwitch 11-6-2003 21:11

Hi All,

Very quick note – I'm now officially as old as dirt, and a grandfather of but one short day. Ceitidh (Katie) Jane McLaren arrived at 2.42pm GMT, a perfect, beautiful little girl. Mother and child came home after only 6 hours and both are doing fine. (My wife is a midwife, amongst other things…)

Back when things are a little less hectic.


Litter 11-6-2003 17:56

Teekay,
Yeah.....That happens to me all the time, only with me it's the &%^$£%^^%$". that matters really.

Eddie French 11-6-2003 15:15

JERRY: Yeah, but they were long posts about compZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

:-D
Will check out oyur story tomorrow and now I'm going to bed.

RANDALL: Jeepers, it wasn't even anywhere near as bad as your making it sound.

The most anmazing thing happened to me today I was &%$# **^^& **&^^* and **^^&^*))()* then (*(^&*(&^^()+)(&* and then I _)(&(*()**&^^$%%#@$^&.

It was hilarious.

Okay, now I'm going to bed.

Teekay 11-6-2003 6:08

Geeze Teekay you must be having a bad day, we only had two posts about computers.

You're right about my workbook halloween story. I tried to beef it up a bit and repost but it just wasn't in me, so I wrote a different shorty, put it in the works in progress section. Named it simply "The Call".

It's not a war story but a little peek into a small town cop's worst call catagory. I based this on a real happening, I wasn't involved it the real call but heard it first hand from the responding officer way back in the mid 70's it the sort of thing even hearing about echo's in the darkness as you lay in bed trying to convince sleep that it's ok to take you away from it all for another night. Oh in the true story, the officer made the "other" choice.

Jerry 11-5-2003 21:45

Randall

Hey!

Teekay...

Simply put, The Cowboy short story was a disaster. Stern up, bow down it sank flying the flag of mediocrity. I had the product in my mind but the transmission was faulty. It WAS stiff and for some reason the darn thing took off and I could not maintain control of the story or flow. That happens to me sometimes. I should have followed my original process of writing where I am observer rather than participant. I was hoping it would die a silent death but for your sharp eye. (GRIN) And I thank you. I will not be hurried and rushed again as I was in The Cowboy. I proof read and it seemed lacking and stiff. I changed a couple of things ran it again through spell check, then grammar check, proofread a couple of times...missed one glaring error... Maybe it was just lazy on my part...

However... as per the BTW at the end...one very scary night 30 years ago I did see something that scared the bejesus out of me. My brother and I were drinking wine, sitting in my 1969 Dodge Super Bee watching for a ghostly light that sometimes appears on a dirt road. I had seen the light before and it was a quiet place to sit with friends, listen to music, and guess at what exactly we were seeing. And drink. Called the White Light it sometimes flashes brightly at various levels moving across a small dirt lane north of town. I looked out the drivers side window...saw an apparition of a cowboy hanging by the neck from a tree...one spur sparkling with the reflection from bright moonlight. It a lot less time than it takes to write this sentence I started the car, popped the clutch and screamed down the road with elan ... actually, we it call BOMF. Blast Off Mother F@#$&%! My brother freaked out, not at the ghostly figure that he only glimpsed but the 100 MPH I reached before he could talk me into slowing down!

I WOULD NOT and WILL NOT go to that spot again.... No way! Was it the wine? I would hope so, because what I saw was not of this existence.

Night all

Randall

Randall 11-5-2003 21:21

TEEKAY,

I have followed the discussion. I just do not have anything to add, because now I do not care about the stuff, and like you, I have a husband who discusses political things often enough.

On top of that, I have some interesting neighbors, and I get a daily amount of genuine adult conversation. You would be surprised how much a difference that makes. When I go days on end, and the only adult I talk to is my husband, I rattle off at the mouth or at the keyboard at the first opportunity. Thank goodness that situation has changed somewhat, and I have more socialization. It makes me a more rational human being, I think.

SHAR,

I write historical fiction. Actually that is a very nice way of saying that I write lurid historical romances. Lurid historical romances are technically historical fiction, but you would be surprised at the looks I have gotten when I have made the mistake of discribing my work as "romance."



Rhoda 11-5-2003 19:57

SHAR: A hale and hearty welcome to you.
It's very quiet in here and that's because MARK & JERRY have sent most people into a coma with their computer talk.
I have a semi immunity because my hubby talks it all the time.
And RHODA just got in from writing probably so yours was the first post she read.

Hoo boy, don't I just love that Nike slogan 'Just Do It', I say it to myself ALL the time, and one day real soon I'm going to start listening :-D

Like RHODA asked, tell us what you like to write.

I like to write a mixture of stuff usually short stories.
At the moment I'm on the last legs of a mss which has been in the works for about 2 years - ugh, it makes me cringe to say it out loud.
I've finally set myself some deadlines and that seems to be working so far.

The story is a very light and airy one, bordering on the ridiculous and it's all very simple.
I have an adversion to research so most of this is what I know and that ain't much.
Like I said - it's simple. :-)

Teekay 11-5-2003 16:57

Welcome, SHAR. Sounds like you have the writing bug bad. Glad you found the Notebook. What sort of stuff do you write?

Rhoda 11-5-2003 13:15

I love this site. Its my first time visiting here and I will come back often. I've been sitting on my writing for years now and need to do something about it. I love to write, i always have. I've put it away for years, but its like eating something that continues to come back, over and over again, something telling me like Nike-JUST DO IT. So here I am, DOING IT, ONCE AGAIN. I hope to met a lot of nice people here and more than that, learn a lot that will push me to go on.

Shar 11-5-2003 12:22

Hi All,
HOWARD: Don't you know torrow never comes? :-D
Guess you're really excited.

RANDALL: Good one. There were a few bits of dialogue that seemed a bit rehearsed, but good one nevertheless.
Didn't know if you were after a critique or just sharing.

MARK & JERRY: Do go on. I'm all ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzCLUNK


:-D

Seeya's later, Alligata's.

Teekay 11-4-2003 19:11

Mark - wow, three months without a reboot, must be running Linux!

My son is trying to talk me into setting one of my old 400 MHZ machines up as a Linux server, but I haven't had the time to mess with it yet.

I have no idea why I would need one, but it might be a fun project. What falavor of Linux are you running? I have several flavors on CD, I guess I sort of like Mandrake the best of those I've installed, I dowloaded SUSE the other day but haven't set it up as of yet. Used to like Red Hat years ago when I was playing around with it on the old 486's, and I have version 9 of that brand set it up once to look at it, it looked like fun but then I wanted to try and sell that machine so I put Windows 95 on and took it up to the second hand store, it sold right away too. Sadly the second hand store closed it's doors last week so I guess I can do about what I want with the old machines I have left in the back room. I donated several to the famlies of the National Guardsmen, but it seems that all who needed machines to email their husbands/sons/daughters now have them.

Jerry 11-4-2003 10:15

JERRY -- Yup, the Workbook was down at that time. What bugs me is that I couldn't look at my performance meter; it tells me the status of the CPU, memory usage, and how long since startup. I think I was running close to three months without a reboot. Pretty good for an amateur webmaster. And I use this machine for my own projects, too. It's my own project stuff that caused me to need a reboot

Mark 11-4-2003 6:40

teekay - it seems I mislabled it when I posted it, it's labeled "a war story"

Jerry 11-4-2003 0:44

Randall

Hey!

The Cowboy
By Randall Henderson

Trickham, a small town not twenty miles from Brownwood has a heritage of old west cattle drives. Hence, it's very name is a play on the words ... "Trick'em" ... given by prank playing drovers who no doubt needed a little humor after eating dust and viewing the south end of north bound steers for days on end. There is not too much to the town now ... but for kids on a dare or adults seeking thrills many visit late in the night ... hoping to see "The Cowboy."

"Anything cooking for Halloween?" George asked Friday morning as he signed for a starter I had delivered.

"Not that I know of." I answered giving him his copy of the receipt. "Deputy Dewright made a believer out of me last year."

Red Britches snickered from his reclining position on George's "nap" cot in the corner of the shop. "And so you will go sit home and watch the TV while life passes you by."

"All right Red Britches, what will you be doing to spice up your life. Aside from a little wine?"

Red lifted his lanky carcass off the cot. He ran a hand through a mop of hair that looked like it had just exploded. He peered at me through bushy eyebrows and grinned. "When is the last time you went down to see Cowboy?"

George glanced at me. He shook his head no. A tingle of fear tickled the nerves on the back of my neck. "When?" I answered trying to judge the implications of an out right lie. " ‘Bout twenty years ago Red."

"Did ye see him?" Red asked.

"Uh, no we didn't see anything."

Red stood. He bent and scratched Black Baby, the shop Lab, as he crawled out from under the cot. Red looked at me and George, a mental question heavy in the air.

"Sure what the hell?" George laughed. But it was a forced laugh I thought. "Lets go. Randy, Red be here at ten and we'll drive to Trickham."

"Cowboy is a myth." I said as we bounced down the narrow, dark ranch road hours later. "Dad said it was an old boogy tale from back in the 20's. Said it was just a stretch of road where guys took their dates so they would sit real close."

Red, riding shotgun in George's wrecker twisted the cap off a bottle of Gallo. I had the hump, cause my legs were shorter than Reds and it was George's wrecker. Black Baby tied securely on the flatbed, kept sticking his big, bony head in the sliding back window and licking my ear. Red offered the bottle, but I declined. George eagerly took a draw as I held the steering wheel so we wouldn't careen off the dirt lane. Friends...

In the reflection of the windshield I noted Red shook his head. "Nope. Now I'm not saying your dad was all wrong but there is a historical note here..."

George giggled. "Hysterical note probably."

"No. No, George. I researched the old town of Trickham and in the summer of 1886 there was an incident on a cattle drive. Just south of the town a nighttime poker game ended in a shooting. Two cowboys were killed by another...who in fact by published depositions was cheating them at cards. Too far from the county seat and behind their schedule, the owner, C. C. Woodson from San Antonio ordered the offending cowboy hung that same night."

I had never heard this tale before and said so.

Red sighed. "It's in the Ballinger newspaper of July 1886. No one pursued the matter cause old C. C. was an ex-state senator and very powerful. And the cowboy was cheating at cards and one of the men he killed in the gunfight was Woodson's own nephew."

"So they hung this guy?" George asked as we bounced through the night.

"Immediately. Then hours before dawn moved the herd on toward Gainesville. But more bad luck followed. A rider was killed crossing the Jim Ned Creek, another broke his neck when his horse stepped in a gopher hole and threw him. Woodson stopped short of Kansas and sold the herd at a considerable loss in the Indian Nations. On the way home and riding at night to avoid bandits he was thrown from his horse and killed."

"Oh boy." I managed to comment as the silence stretched on. Black Baby licked my ear and I jumped.

"Where ‘bouts was he killed?" George asked pushing his dog back with one hand as I steered the wrecker.

"Trickham. Within a mile where the cowboy was hung."

"Can I have some of the wine?" I asked. My mouth was suddenly very dry.

We finally arrived at the said to be location just after 11:00 that night. George killed the wrecker, dowsed the headlights and night fell on us.

Red whispered. "Next time the clouds clear the moon look to your left. They were camping in that area just about where that old mesquite tree stands."

"Where was that guy hung?" George asked.

"The old mesquite tree. The story says he can be seen turning, twisting in the wind, hanging from the tree."

"Oh God." I murmured chills racing up my spine.

It was a beautiful fall night, a quarter moon. Red and George rolled their windows down. A faint breeze stirred dead oak leaves and they drifted through the darkness. We talked quietly for a while. Red told of his Navy escapades. George talked briefly of his love of painting, something I had never heard before.

I leaned forward to laugh at one of Reds long-winded tales ... something glittered in the night ... under the TREE! A sparkling, twinkling, jewel like object two feet off the ground. It turned, swinging...now bright...now dark...something swinging in the night air...a spur...on a boot.

My eyes lifted upward following the trail of logic...up the leg...to the waist...the rumpled shirt...the head covered with long hair...bent at an impossible angle. I screamed!

George looked at me, then out the window. He shouted. "God damn and hell fire!"

Red jerked forward. He looked and screamed, a high-pitched sound. "Go George go!"

George flooded the wrecker. It wouldn't start. Red was goggled eyed, gaping at the apparition, pounding on the dash. Black Baby was coming...coming I say through the back window. Unable to take my eyes off the figure I saw it was on a horse...now the horse was moving...turning to us...George was bawling..."God damn, start you bastard."

The horse was now facing us. The rider grasped the rope and pulled his head upright! Glaring red eyes, mouth twisted as at the moment of death it snarled. The wrecker motor started. George and I both stomped on the gas pedal. The wheels spun on the gravel, the horse and rider were now loping toward us, the fearsome head held up right by one hand around a rope! Black Baby was in my lap, tail in my mouth, howling. Red was shouting, kicking the floorboard..."God damn I told you so!"

Slowly the wrecker moved forward. The horse was now dead even now, the object astride it heaved a bag at us. It struck the back of the wrecker. Red hollered "SHIT!" and crouched down in the seat. Black Baby was in the floorboard baying. George and I were both holding the steering wheel, his foot atop mine on the accelerator. "Turn on the lights," I managed to shout as the motor revved higher than it had ever before.

Instead George hollered back. "I ain't got time!" he shouted. "Gimme me second gear while I work the clutch!"

We sped down the narrow dirt road and away from the nightmare. George screamed, "Now!" and I shifted the gears. I felt a wetness in the seat. "Red, Red you spilled the wine!"

"That ain't wine." Red moaned his head between his knees.

I know it took us an hour to drive down to Trickham, but only a few minutes to get back to town. We stopped outside town in the parking lot of a motel. Red fell out of the seat landing on all fours. I scrambled out and leaned on the wrecker. George somehow managed to come to our side. He slid down sitting against the rear tires. Minutes passed and no one spoke.

An old weathered pickup slowly turned in the parking lot. It was Slim, Miss Shari's ranch foreman. He leaned out the window. "Ye boys got any peaches to sell?"

We looked up at the old foreman who was grinning.

Slim chuckled. "Peaches, you know Red ... peaches?"

‘Whaaaa?" Red managed to ask.

Slim stepped from the wrecker and retrieved a bag from the back of Georges wrecker. It was the bag the thing threw at us. Slim pulled a peach out and took a big bite. He grinned at Red as peach juice lid down his chin whiskers.

"Yes sir. Mighty fine peaches these." He got back in the old pickup. He tossed a length of rope out. A hangman's noose... "You know Red, what goes around comes around. Night, night."

"Geoooooorge..." I started.

"No, my fault." Red said. "I told Slim in the cafe we were going to see the Cowboy. I guess he thought it was payback for his nickname of Peaches I gave him last month."

George angrily stomped around to the driver's side. "Black Baby move your big ass over! Boys I learned a lot from this. Never hangout with winos and cowboys. It's sure not good for ones heart."

Annnnnnnnnnd with a tip of the hat to Washington Irving...goodnight.

Randall

BTW... There is an old cattle drive town named Trickham ... and I did ... one night...along with my brother... believe we saw the ghostly reflection of a cowboy hanging from a tree limb ... slowly turning ... twisting in the wind of a warm summer night .... as the moon reflected off his spurs. It was then and now a chilling memory and no I have not been back!!!!

Randall 11-3-2003 23:20

Teekay - I was going to go check for directions but it appears the notebook is down for the moment.

I left it in the shorty's section if that's any help.

Ben - no problem, I just wanted you to know that I had my reasons for my opinion. Oh and yes, I want to see the American way of life preserved, probably as much as you want to see the Canadian way of life preserved.

Jerry 11-3-2003 22:35

Pssst - Howard - don't make the bed till you've slept in it, works better that way.

Just kidding, I think it was like six weeks before I moved back into our bed, spent that time in the spare bedroom in a rock hard bed we kept to insure that company didn't spend that many days staying over.



Jerry 11-3-2003 22:30

YeeHah! Dorie is coming home tomorrow - yes, already! I just got home from the hosp, and the doc was in while I was there. He says she's doing fine, and can come home torrow afternoon.
He called her "Metal Woman," because she now has two titanium rods, a titanium mesh cage, and six screws holding her back together.
She's still in lots of pain, but she can moan and groan at home (she said that, not I).
So now I gotta do the dishes, make the bed, and tidy up before morning.

From the department of twisted minds:

For the "Movies that would have been great" list:

Bette Davis plays a speedy hooker from Nome who enters the Iditarod race in hopes of winning enough to save her old brothel, in

"Mush, Mush, Fleet Harlot"

:-)


howard 11-3-2003 22:22

Wow! It's been a long time since I've been here.

Hi all!

MEL AND BEN: I was scrolling down and saw your posts on NaNoWriMo. I found out about it earlier this year. There is also a NaNoWri YEAR. The idea is similar, however, they start on January 1st with three months to write 50,000 words and then take a one month break. Then they write 50,000 in two months and take a one month break and so on. Here's the site http://nanowriye.suddenlaunch.com/index.cgi

I joined the nanowriye but never got the chance to participate. I've also joined nanowrimo for the first time this year. I do have an edge for this...My job ended on September 26th, so I have more time to actually put into writing.

So what did I write for the first month I had off? NOTHING! That's write, er, I mean right. The whole month was nothing but one big mess. My husband had blood in his urine the beginning of the month, he had his wisdom teeth plus two molars pulled on the 9th, the recovery was horrible(dry socket and lots of pain), then he has some kind of attack just when he's starting to come out of the teeth thing. ACK! The doctors still don't know what caused it. We have an appointment for tomorrow morning with the family doctor. My hubby did some research on one of his medicines for high blood pressure and thinks it might have had something to do with it. And on top of all this my best friend's mother passed away.

Well, here's hoping for a more tranquil and more productive November!

Take care all!

Cheri 11-3-2003 21:26

Hi Rhoda.

gariess 11-3-2003 18:48

I dunno, seems that quite some time ago something went horribly wrong with the workings of the cosmos.

I was supposed to be born at Martha's Vineyard!!

What the hell went wrong?!?!?!?!?!

Teekay 11-3-2003 17:25

JERRY: I can't find it.
I looked everywhere, but if it's there I need directions.

Teekay 11-3-2003 17:18

Hi All,

HOWARD: I know exactly what you mean. There's nothing worse than seeing someone you love suffer.

GARIESS: *sigh* Just dropped in from doing a Cape Cod tour. Mmmm, I could almost smell the sea salt.
I wouldn't be in any hurry to go over the bridge - what for?

JERRY: Thanks, shall go have a looksee.

Going....

to Martha's Vineyard.

Teekay 11-3-2003 17:09

I'm not going to get into a big harangue with you about the fate of small town America, Jerry, because it's exactly the same up here, okay? It's the same everywhere. Towns, like people, grow up and die. That's the plain, ugly truth. When whatever commodities there are in the area dry up, the people move on. They're called ghost towns, and yes, it still happens. You want ghost towns, then come up here and look around. For every problem that you have there, we have. Droughts, floods, government mismanagement? I guess the thing about you that bothers me is the attitude--the "Thank God it's happening to you guys so we can catch a break because of what you've done to us over the years...like come on. Give me a break.

People live in small towns because they want to. Their children leave because they don't want to live there. It's as simple as that. It's a generational thing. So yeah, say you hope we 'suffer' through our losses. You don't expect a reply? You expect that maybe I, or anyone else, won't be offended--because that's the way it comes across. Say anything you want, because I'll tell you what, you come across as the "typical" American--unlike most other Americans I've met, you are the cliche. Up here, we think the right to 'bare' arms means you can wear short sleeves if you want to.

So do me a favour, and let's not mention this anymore? You want us to suffer so that you can have your precious "All American way of life", and all I want is for things to be as they were, so I don't have to worry about trying to find a new job at 45 years of age. You have your agenda, and I have mine, and that's where the problem is. You don't care about my problems, and I don't care about yours. You live in a small town with a small town mentality, and it's getting smaller. In forty years, maybe fifty, it'll be even smaller. But we'll all be dead by then if we're lucky, so why worry about it?

If you have anything else you want to add, email me. I don't think anyone wants to hear what we have to say. I know I don't want to waste my time with it. I'll gladly tell you what I think, but I won't embarass you, or myself, with speaking out about it here.

Ben 11-3-2003 15:05

Teekay sorry about that, the namd is :"A Flash In The Darkness"

Jerry 11-3-2003 13:43

GARIESS,

So great to see you back.



Rhoda 11-3-2003 13:35

Gariess - sorry about that, must be old-timers desease or some such malady, it was Ben that I had that comment aimed.

I never explained my thoughts very well however, let me elaborate a bit.

When I was growing up in this very same town we had three car dealers three farm implement dealers, three grocery stores, two auction barns, two drug stores, a large three story department store, five motels, two large hotels, three hardware stores, three lumber yards, six or seven full service gas stations with two discount gas stations, three dentists, two optomitrists, a full service hospital staffed with three doctors and nearly three thousand people living here.

Today, we have a clinc serviced by doctors from a neighboring town, one grocery store, one drug store, one car dealer (owned by an out of town multi city car dealership), one grocery store (that charges half again the going rate for gorcerys), three self service gas station, no dentist, one hardware store, one lumber yard that is in and out of business about every two years) no farm inplement dealers, and about fifteen hundred people.

The reason: low farm prices that forced the small family farmer, like my dad and his brothers out of business, their land bought up by ranchers who converted that rich black land back to prairie grass to feed their cattle. The great farm failure that sparked such things as the National Farmers Orginazation (militant farmers!) and the Posse Cometatis (very militant farmers with guns who killed a few cops back in the 80's in shootouts with semi-auto "assault" rifles) and the likes due to the farm forclosures of the mid to late 80's.

Just prior to the import ban, many of those self same ranchers were seeing an end to their existance much like the black dirt farmers of the 60's and 70's (many who had been on the same land since the 1800's).

Then came the import ban. With that ban, the beef price here went up, I talked with a friend of mine who is an auctioneer at the local sales barn (we still have one of those) and he said he nearly cried at seeing smiles on the faces of those who were sitting at the auction, sellers and buyers alike. Likewise when you go in any store uptown, the sadness on the owners faces that has been present now for several years as they watch their business dry up as the farmers move to the cities to try and make a living, has been replaced by the smiles they had in my youth.

Yes I hope it lasts because it's a good thing for our towns, for our ranchers, and those few family farms, like my wife's brother, who still strugles to keep their family farm alive, the same farm that his grandfather started back in 1903, that his mother and father put their life's blood into to keep afloat in good times when prices were fair, and worked even during the hard times in the 80's when all around them farmers were being sold out by the FHA auctioneres, many of those same farmers killed themselves in their empty barns after the auction, unable to go on after seeing the farm that their grandfathers, fathers had built and they lost when the bottom dropped out of the market.

Jerry 11-3-2003 11:01

Gariess - sorry about that, must be old-timers desease or some such malady, it was Ben that I had that comment aimed.

I never explained my thoughts very well however, let me elaborate a bit.

When I was growing up in this very same town we had three car dealers three farm implement dealers, three grocery stores, two auction barns, two drug stores, a large three story department store, five motels, two large hotels, three hardware stores, three lumber yards, six or seven full service gas stations with two discount gas stations, three dentists, two optomitrists, a full service hospital staffed with three doctors and nearly three thousand people living here.

Today, we have a clinc serviced by doctors from a neighboring town, one grocery store, one drug store, one car dealer (owned by an out of town multi city car dealership), one grocery store (that charges half again the going rate for gorcerys), three self service gas station, no dentist, one hardware store, one lumber yard that is in and out of business about every two years) no farm inplement dealers, and about fifteen hundred people.

The reason: low farm prices that forced the small family farmer, like my dad and his brothers out of business, their land bought up by ranchers who converted that rich black land back to prairie grass to feed their cattle. The great farm failure that sparked such things as the National Farmers Orginazation (militant farmers!) and the Posse Cometatis (very militant farmers with guns who killed a few cops back in the 80's in shootouts with semi-auto "assault" rifles) and the likes due to the farm forclosures of the mid to late 80's.

Just prior to the import ban, many of those self same ranchers were seeing an end to their existance much like the black dirt farmers of the 60's and 70's (many who had been on the same land since the 1800's).

Then came the import ban. With that ban, the beef price here went up, I talked with a friend of mine who is an auctioneer at the local sales barn (we still have one of those) and he said he nearly cried at seeing smiles on the faces of those who were sitting at the auction, sellers and buyers alike. Likewise when you go in any store uptown, the sadness on the owners faces that has been present now for several years as they watch their business dry up as the farmers move to the cities to try and make a living, has been replaced by the smiles they had in my youth.

Yes I hope it lasts because it's a good thing for our towns, for our ranchers, and those few family farms, like my wife's brother, who still strugles to keep their family farm alive, the same farm that his grandfather started back in 1903, that his mother and father put their life's blood into to keep afloat in good times when prices were fair, and worked even during the hard times in the 80's when all around them farmers were being sold out by the FHA auctioneres, many of those same farmers killed themselves in their empty barns after the auction, unable to go on after seeing the farm that their grandfathers, fathers had built and they lost when the bottom dropped out of the market.

Jerry 11-3-2003 11:00

Hello, Carol.

Yes, Teekay, I live at Cape Cod. Strange how a small thing like a preposition makes something sound entirely odd. Here, we are used to saying, "on" Cape Cod, as in "on' an island. Actually we say "on the Cape," as though there were only one. Believe me, there are still people here who don't know there are other Capes. Some people get asked when the last time was that they went over the bridge, if ever.

11-3-2003 0:47

TEEKAY -- Dorie had the two procedures on Friday, the fusion and the decompression. They had her standing up beside her bed on Saturday morning, and took her for xrays Saturday afternoon.
When I got there at about 1PM today, I met her in the hallway, being escorted by the therapist. She was on her second trip (using a walker) and doing nicely. The surgeon checked her over this morning, and said that the xray techs must have moved her the wrong way, but there's no apparent damage.
They do move things along quickly -- some say it's because of the insurance companies. But the doc says he's in no hurry to shove her out of the hosp, and she may stay until Wednesday or Thursday. She won't be able to use the stairs after all, so I'll be relocating the bedroom to the first floor. That's no problem, as we have the room already there -- a kind of a guest apartment, and we'll just move into there until she's ready to tackle the stairs.
There's a double benefit there -- I've been wanting to build a new closet in our bedroom, and I'll be remodeling the main kitchen as well.
It just hurts to se her hurt, if you know what I mean. If I could, I'd take the pain from her in a heartbeat.


howard 11-2-2003 22:41

Randall

Hey!

Still kicking down here gang... Had the flu, still do in fact. No energy ... even to respond to the "Cowboy" mention I came across. Will feel better soon I hope. I believe it's the weather...highs in the 80's, lows in the 60's. Humidity at 70%. The humidity is so high we have to run our AC's at night so we may sleep without sweating. Send me some cool air Jerry...

Randall

Randall 11-2-2003 20:29

With a hey and a ho and a heynonino,

Sorry to hear about Dorie's setback Howard. I hope and pray she recovers without the need for further surgery.

Got another signing under me belt, yesterday. Went well. Sang solo in church tonight. Started with a headache (not the name of the song!) and now it's like having a jackhammer in my head, so I'm off for a lie down.

Later,


Litter 11-2-2003 17:54

JERRY: What's the name of the Hallowe'en story you posted?


Teekay 11-2-2003 17:52

BEN: Good wishes on the story writing.
Let us know how it goes.


Teekay 11-2-2003 17:41

HOWARD: Oh poor Dorie.
Aren't patients only supposed to stand with assistance 4 days after a spinal fusion procedure? (It hasn't been 4 days has it?)
And isn't the x-ray usually done day 5.
Not 100% sure about this, but you might want to check it out.
Maybe that x-ray was either done too early or should have been done lying down.
Just checked the dates of your emails and it seems to be she was out of bed the next day!
Had there even been any physiotherapy to strengthen and relax the back muscles?
If you do check it out, ask a neutral party.

GARIESS: Don't you live at Cape Cod?
By doing so you have forfeited your right to whinge about the weather (or anything) :-D
But I do know what you mean. :-)

ALL: Editing starts today. Even bought myself a red pen for the purpose.

Faint glimmers of a genuine springlike day glimmering in the sky.

Going...

Teekay 11-2-2003 16:48

Hi All!

Just a quick note so you know I'm still alive and kicking. There's more work to be done on the house - mainly staining and polyurethaning the new window trim. Then of course I had to complicate things a touch and decide to put in rosettes. Oh, well, I'll keep the promise of how nice it will all look when done and the pride I'll have in having done the majority of the work myself. But, it has been keeping me from writing or spending much time online. I have managed to keep up the journal writing at least -- every day.

Howard - I too am keeping Dorie in my thoughts. My own spouse has had seven back operations all told, so I do know what you're both going through. Hang tough.

Gariess -- so good to see you again!

Viv - even if I'm not working on the novel at the moment, I'm keeping myself very open to any and all ideas as they crop up. Have gotten a few more details figured out. Once the house is finished and Thanksgiving is over, I hope things will relax enough to get busy again. I get to host Thanksgiving this year which is why I have such a push to get everything done. I'm looking forward to it though and thank goodness my new meds seem to be helping a lot.

Now - time to get the rest of those rosettes stained --- have a great Sunday everyone!

Carol 11-2-2003 14:44

What's so bad about being a cowboy?

Well, let me see. Hmmm...near as I can figger it, nuthin'. A man goes out an' makes hisself a livin' ridin' down little critters, an' he makes an honest livin' at it, well, I don't see nuthin' wrong with that. Do you? Dang it, Cowboys are what made this Continent one--and do you see I said 'Continent', and not 'country', because COWBOYS are universal. They have them here, there and everywhere. But of course, they're undoubtedly an American thang, aren't they? But that's because of Hollywood, and for no other reason. You can say whatever you want about the stalwart cowboy being found in literature, but we all know more people watch movies than read books. (Because it's a lot easier to watch all those little pictures than tryin' to string all them little letters together all in a row, ain't it Zeke?)

But I think the term 'cowboy', as it applies to someone in the political arena, is something to make people feel uncomfortable--and it should. The thought that a man who "shoots from the hip" and asks questions later is in control, makes me a little nervous. Any country who doesn't follow this man's lead is automatically in the wrong? Hello!? Look at the French. What's with that? Freedom Fries? Why? Because France, like a great many other nations, felt that the proper thing to do was to follow the guidelines as set down by the U.N.? Did you happen to hear what your neighbors were saying about Canadians? Do you think they forgot that Canada received the Nobel Peace prize for Peacekeeping? Do you think they cared? (Do you think half of them even know?) Of course not. We were those cowards who betrayed you. And why? Because you were following a man who wasn't going to take any shit from anyone, goddammit. You were gonna show the world what it meant to screw with America. You chose to follow a man who wrapped himself up in his patriotic fervour and put on his star spangled blinders, so that everyone else said, "Well, shucks, he must be right, Zeke," and kicked the clod of dirt resting against the toe of their boots.

Shucks...Yeah, a cowboy. Anyone else in the world knows you can't invade a country and expect to walk away with an easy victory when more than half the population feels you've overstayed your welcome and wants you to leave. We're gonna stay there until it's safe for us to leave...(?)When you say there are WMD's, but no one can find any proof, you have to stand by your word even though your allies are having problems with scandals about fudging numbers--so you put a different spin on things, and say you're going to stay until the country becomes a democratically solvent nation. People get nervous because they know how long it took for America to get it right. And did they? I don't know. The country became a melting pot that separated itself into "the haves", and "the have-nots". People lost their religion by coming to America, and maybe that's what they're afraid of losing with America coming to them? But do you think the Cowboy cares about that? Hell, Zeke, that's what's causing all the problems in the first place, it's a religious war now! It's religion, goddammit. If we just made everyone there a Christian, maybe they'd get it? Hell, Christians and Jews have always gotten along, haven't they? Yeah right...

It took more than two hundred years for America to actually make their Democratic system work reasonably well--don't tell me it's the best thing there is, just because there isn't anything to replace it with, okay? It's just that there hasn't been anything better to come along since, and so we're sorta stuck with it. Communism would have worked except for one thing: People were involved with it instead of leaving it as a theory written on paper--like every other Utopian dream--and where there are people involved in any institution, there is graft, and corruption--yes, and even in a democracy. And when the man leading the revolution is a nut bar, well, we all know what a dictatorship is, but what about what it used to mean? Before Franco, Stalin, Hitler and Napoleon, before Cromwell and the Spanish Inquisition, or the Dark Ages. The Romans had a position of absolute power in times of emergency--they made it permanent later and called him Imperator, which eventually became Emperor--which is what the Presidency evolved from simply because Washington refused the title Emperor...But what do you think would have happened had Washington been an average man? Napoleon never did understand how Washington could simply give up all that power once he defeated the British. No one could understand. And that one simple act was the saving grace for the fledgling American Republic. Everything after that has been a headlong rush into bravado--the American way. The Cowboy mentality. "Let's get a rope an' hang 'em high."

So yeah, keep the borders closed and create that animosity that seems to follow whenever someones says the name America. Oh, what's that? You don't hear it? Of course you don't. Because you don't listen. One cow is found with "Mad Cow" disease: One cow. For that, let's break the economy of our neighbours to the north. Hell, they deserve it, sendin' all they're cattle down to us and takin' all our farmers' livelihood. Did you know America bought 60% of our livestock? Did you know you can't produce enough to feed yourselves? Does shooting yourself in the foot hurt as much as it sounds like it does?

So shut the border down. That seems to be the best way to solve the problem for you. I don't want to go down there and visit you anyway. And maybe we'll keep our stuff too? Or should we impose tarrifs on it? 40% for the water and electricity going to California, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and Montana--and by the way let everything burn, so we can get them to buy our lumber too. They'll be screaming for it in a couple of months. Maybe we should become a little more like you? Walk softly and carry a big stick?

Once they open the borders--and they will, you know that--everybody'll hate everybody else, and we'll all have found the "Amercican Way"--Screw your neighbour before he screws you.

Now I have to leave and try to come up with a book in thirty days. And it takes place in...guess where? America. :-)

ben 11-2-2003 4:47

Hi Jerry,

I think you meant to answer Ben, not me, about the free trade and beef thing. I really don't have a dog in that fight. I'm a dumb New Englander, and like most of us around here, we know how to eat beef, but we don't know much about ranching. The only agriculture we have here is cranberry bogs, and some of those are very small, maybe two acres or so. I have to confess I know nearly nothing about the free trade agreement, either. I did, however, go to Sturgis, SD for the bike rally. Do you live anywhere near there? I did enjoy it, it was so different being somewhere where the land is so open. I was amazed at the Badlands. Even when one has seen the West in movies, the real impression of the Badlands is very different, so vast and so open. On Cape Cod it's hilly enough and so woodsy that you can hardly see more than 200 yards ahead wherever you go. The roads are winding and narrow, so it has a very small feel to it. Of course the Atlantic is never more than six miles away, no matter where you are on Cape Cod. Technically, we are an island.

When I went to SD it was a year ago, August, and I don't think it went below 90 degrees the whole time. I can't believe a place can get so hot in the summer and be getting snow in October. Being surrounded by the Atlantic Ocean tends to temper out the weather we get, here.

Howard,

I really am sorry to hear that your wife is having such a bad time. It must be very hard for you. I better hope it's your wife I am talking about, now that I mention it. I mean Dorie.

Teekay,

At least you are having Spring, now. That always seems so strange to me, maybe it's strange to you when we have Spring, here. I like Spring, if I could, I would go to Argentina or some place. How great would that be? Just keep going to wherever the warm time is.

gariess 11-2-2003 2:26

Oh and what the hell is so bad about being a "cowboy?"

Jerry 11-2-2003 1:32

Yep Garries, things are tough all over.

Shure hope it lasts for our guys, because they've been taking it in the shorts for way too long up here over the free trade deal. Then the powers that be refuse to go with country of origin on meat products so we have NO choice of who's beef we buy unless we do as I do and buy it directly from a rancher, who, by the way has raised the price of their beef now that they can get a better price on the open market, but I'm not complaining about paying another ten cents a pound for their beef, they need the money. The free trade deal has put more ranchers around here out of business then any thing else of late, so ya, I sure hope it lasts.


Jerry 11-2-2003 1:32

Hi!
Dorie had a bit of a setback this afternoon. She was doing fine until the xray dept sent someone up to get her. THey wheeled her down okay, but when they stood her up to get a picture, something slipped, and she had immediate numbness in her leg, and severe pain in her back. The doc will check it in the morning, but she's in an awful lot of pain right now. They gave her a shot of morphine to take the edge off it, but it's still bad.
She was scheduled to come home on Tuesday, but not sure now.

howard 11-1-2003 22:26

Sorry, I mean Dorie.
Not the cats mother.

Teekay 11-1-2003 18:36

HOWARD: Ditto what JERRY said.
How long til she can go home?

ALL: Not much happening here on this lazy Sunday. The spring weather has taken a turn for the worse and it's acting a bit wintry, though not as cold and dismal as yesterday.

Going...

Teekay 11-1-2003 18:09

"Sure hope it lasts"? Oh Jerry, it's such a disappointment to hear anyone say that, but so typical under such circumstances. Sure, things were hard on both sides for a while, but now it's just our side that's suffering, isn't it, so who cares? Did you think it was any easier for the farmers over here? The droughts and floods happen on this side of the border too, you know. So now, we have families losing everything, generational farmers with nowhere to go, and government bureaucrats on both sides of the border who say that they might have it resolved in a couple of months.

It's funny in an ironic, twisted sorta way, because I'm in the lumber industry. There's this problem with the softwood lumber agreement because the States say that they don't like the way we subsidize our lumber companies...we have to pay 35-55 bucks for every log we cut down, whereas you guys have to buy the land it's on, and do it in a way that it works out to being over a hundred bucks a log. So naturally, we should change the way we do it, because it puts us at an unfair advantage. Hello? We should change because you don't like the way it works for us? We're making too much money selling it to you guys? The thing is, ya'll want our logs. HOME DEPOT wants our product, because they say it's better. So you guys slap a tariff on us. 37%. And then they drop it to a reasonable 19, but only after more then ten thousand people lose their jobs, their houses, their livelihood. And we work right beside the docks, where we watch ships come in and load up our raw logs for export to places like Japan, and America. We're losing jobs, and you're still taking our logs. Yeah, okay, this is turning into a rant, but so what? Cause you wanna know somethin'? The funny part about it all is that everyone sort of agrees--no one says it out loud--but we all sorta look at what was happening then, and what was going down with Saddam, and Canada choosing to stand behind the U.N. instead of backing the U.S. and England. So now everyone's dragging their feet. Our solution up here is the easiest--I mean the guys I work with. Stop selling logs, stop sending water, electricity, oil, until they pull they're heads outta their ***** and look at what they're doing to us. Free Trade? Open Borders? Sure, Free Trade works, as long as it goes the way it's supposed to, if you know what I mean? (wink, wink, nudge, nudge.)

"Sure hope it lasts." Don't get me started. Land of the Free (Trade) and home of the (Atlanta)Brave(s)? I thank God my parents came here in 1956, instead of moving to Atlanta like they were considering. Only problem with moving there was, that at the time they were living in Surinam (that's in South America). My Dad was an intellegent man who read a lot, and he didn't like the way the Black Man was being treated down there then. He refused to treat a Black Man the way he was expected to treat a Black Man back then. And I thank God he instilled that worthwhile trait in me.

And Our Prime Minister was heard to say that Bush was a Cowboy? Was he so wrong? I saw a comedy show on the good ole' CBC when Bush was running for president, and they asked him what he thought about the Canadian Prime Minister, Poutine--a French Canadian slur (and I do apologize for mispelling it). Bush said he looked forward to meeting him. We knew right then we were in trouble.

"Sure hope it lasts." Yeah, you deserve another four years of that guy. The problem is, he's a one term president. The vote sort of told us that didn't it? No matter who won, it woulda been ofr one term. It was like choosing the lesser of two evils, and then finding out you got it wrong. No wonder why I don't like politics or politicians.

I wasn't going to post this, but what the hell, I spent a lot of time trying to get this thing down--trying to fold and put away laundry, answering the phone, and getting ready for work...I'm still a slut. :-)

Oh, and Jerry, did that work?

ben 11-1-2003 18:07

Howard glad to hear all went well, wish Dori my best.

We got our first snow three days ago, four inches of the crap. Yesterday and today we got another two inches and the temp had dropped to 8 degrees.

None the less, we had several trick or treaters tonight.

BTW did I mention I left a halloween shorty in the shorty section of the workbook?

Write on...

Jerry 10-31-2003 22:38

The doc says everything went very well, but the damage was worse than they
expected, so it took a little longer to complete -- over 4 hours, and will
take a bit longer to heal -- 3 to 6 months.
The herniated disk was complicated by bone spurs and arthritis, but he said
she should feel immediate improvement there. The real pain was because of
the disintegrated disk -- the vertebrae were rubbing/grating together. He
said that had to be causing intense pain. He fused them together, and said
that it will be very painful for a while, but within a few days she should
feel some improvement. The pain is aggravated because they couldn't use the
steroid to lessen the swelling -- she's allergic to it -- so he put a drain
in the site to try to keep the swelling down. But now they've found that the
drain isn't working properly, so they keep having to roll her onto her side
to drain it manually. That's not exactly making her day...
The doc said she should be able to come home on Tuesday, and that she'll be
able to walk, climb the stairs, etc.

She just called me again, and told me to say hi to everyone for her, and thanks for all the prayers and good thoughts!


howard 10-31-2003 22:14

Rachel - Glad to hear it worked out, it could have been so much worse. I once saw an EMT walk head long into a downed 700 volt highline, the current went through his head down his arms and out the wheels of the gurney he was pushing. He must have flown ten feet, and when he landed his heart had stopped. The other two EMT's went to work on him and brought him back by CPR.



Jerry 10-31-2003 22:12

Ben - ain't gonna work this time, I stopped listening to Rush, well at least regurlarly still tune in once in awhile, before his great anouncement. Trying a new "think for myself" type thing.

I don't see where Rush should send himself to jail though, to become addicted to prescription meds is so very easy to do, if one doesn't have a good doctor who is willing to work with you in the field of pain management it could happen to almost anyone, especially if you happen to be the receipent of a failed back surgery. This I know as I'm such a receipent, and still use some very strong pain meds, though now through a transdermal patch instead of pills ( never could keep track of when to take the blasted things and it got worse as the strength went up).

I'll give old Rush this though, he addmitted in public to the world his problem, none of that shaking the finger and "I did not have sex with that woman" so famously stated by the liberal's hero Bill Clinton.

As far as free trade, never did like that idea and it does my heart good to see our ranchers enjoying the sudden fair pay for their stock since the gate for Canadian beef closed. Sure hope it lasts.



Jerry 10-31-2003 22:07

Hi All,

RACHEL: Lucky the river is giving you a hard time. If the horses had been in the stables ugh! I shudder to think of it.
Glad you're okay.

MEL: Thanks :-). It's a pilfering amount. probably cost more to change it over at the bank to Aus. dollars than it's worth, so may end up framing it or something.
I can put it up next to my wad of rejections :-D

Haven't the strength to sign up for NaNoWriMo. At least, not this year.

Have a great day all.

Going...

Teekay 10-31-2003 18:30

Ben,

Among states in this nation, there is a mutual emergency aid system which, roughly stated, provides that one state will send emergency workers to another state with no compensation other than the fact that, reciprocally, they get the same aid from that state if the situation is reversed. This applies to utility franchises which are not necessarily seperated by state lines. I worked in utilities for a number of years ( I was Homer Simpson's shift partner in the control room.) That accounts for my familiarity with this arrangement which brings me to the point of all this.

I vaguely recall that a similar arrangement exists between the U.S. and Canada; possibly Mexico, as well. Between states and franchises there is a pre-existing designation of numbers of workers available, but the provision allows for over-riding the number on a case to case basis. If the same arrangement exists between the U.S. and Canada, that might account for the discrepancy in the Governor's numbers. Two hundred could be the designation and 1500 could be the over-ride. Not-with-standing the fact that Gray Davis is a chump, in any case.



10-31-2003 17:54

Jerry,

Since when did not having anything new to say, stop a conservative talk show host? By the way, is Rush going to send himself to jail, as he has, so often, advocated for drug law breakers?

I just figured as long as I'm back, I might as well get Jerry all stirred up as I used to do.

10-31-2003 17:34

Ben,

He, he, he. (grins). Tonight will be a good night for walking with the kiddies as they go door to door for trick or treat. It should be lots of fun :o)

All,

A Happy Hallowe’en and Happy Samhain to one and all.

Take care all.

RDRKO


Rachel 10-31-2003 15:39

Oh yeah Rachel, you're supposed to shuffle, or hop. But I guess if you don't know you've got electrical wires underneath your car, you could be in for a real shock--oh I couldn't resist that one :-) All in all though, it was a wonderful wind yesterday. I walked to work in it. It's an hour's walk. I loved it! I'm just glad I took a different posting at work, and now get to sit in a warm climate controlled cab, instead of sitting out on the water trying to figure out how I can stop the wind from blowing down my backside. B-r-r-r-r!!

Ben

10-31-2003 14:14

Sorry Jerry, I don't pay much attention to American politics, or politicians, it's hard enough living up here trying to contend with all the American sanctions going against us. (Can we say "Free" Trade?)I trust American politicians and believe them, about as much as I do Canadian politicians. In fact, I was watching a bit of the news last night, and saw Gray Davis from California saying how he had just spoken to the premier of this province--he didn't look like he knew which one it was, let alone where the hell he'd find it on a map--who promised to send him 1500 firefighters to help fight the blazes. He'd just spoken to him? He didn't even know his name. He had to read it off a piece of paper, and still got it wrong three times. And the saddest part of all, was that he was offered 200 men, not 1500, and not "promised". So what are those people in California gonna think when their houses go up in smoke, and the 1500 promised Canadian firefighters don't show up? What're they gonna say if only 200 show up? Well, at least they sent us the water bombers...? and what good are those if you can't fly them? Don't get me started about politics and America. This isn't the place for that.

ben 10-31-2003 14:07

Hi all,

I had a shocking experience yesterday afternoon. I went out to pick up some eggs to make cookies. On my way home something hit my car and it started to make the most freakish sound. A sort of womphfa sound. I saw two kids pointing and starting to run. I thought they had thrown a fire cracker at the car. I cut off their avenue of escape and sprang out of the car, at which point something hurt me. I had quite the adrenaline rush going and advanced on these 16 year olds with their rottie and pit bull dogs asking them who the hell they thought they were throwing crap at my car and that I wanted to speak to their parents right frickin now! The two of them kept backing up and pointing behind me, at which point I became aware of another strange sound. I turned around to see and electrical fire shooting back, forth and up from a couple of lines with a burning tree branch across it. At that point I knew the kids hadn't done the deed. I apologized to them then went to the shop closest to the scene and called 911. I asked the shop keeper to call but she told me her English was too bad, her husband said the same, and I guess what they said was true enough. They did have pretty weak English. All night last night my hair was super static zone and Dan said each time he touched me he got a shock. I suppose you could say I had an electric personality (laughter). The pain in my arms, chest and back started to ease of shortly after it all happened (not more than an hour) and today I just have a bit of an ache. I joked with Dan that I was slow cooking (grins). It wasn't long after that, that we had a HUGE tree come down in the yard. It fell across the horse pens that we are not using currently, due to the massive ditches which have been dug in them (grrrrrrr)! Ah, and we contacted the land owner to tell him he would need to fill in the ditches himself. I wonder if the reason I didn't get a worse shock is because I have the super dry skin on my hands. Man, I wish you guys could have heard the sound my car was making. It was like being in Doc Frankinstines lab ;o) This morning I had to haul warm water for the horses, who are in the neighbours pen (it was a long way to drag big buckets of water). I had to get Dan to help me pull out the frozen clods from the horses feet. Apparently the horse shoes really encourage the frozen build up in hoof thing. Poor girls were tottering around like a couple of drunks. Dan and I have been given a couple of days off from our horse feeding job and I am happy. I wouldn't want to try to deal with those five preggers, pissy mares wearing their high heels...

Ciao for now.

RDRKO

Rachel 10-31-2003 11:48

Well it simply had to happen. The liberal answer to Rush Limbaugh broke out of his two station market and went national this week. The fellow hails from Fargo North Dakota of all places, and I used to listen to him back when he was an ultra consrvative talk show host.

He changed his color back in the late Clinton era when the nation went after his new hero Bill Clinton (How he ever fell in love with Clinton is anybody's guess) for what happened in the oval office with Monica.

I do believe that it was more then that, I think the real reason he changed his agenda was simply that Rush took all the wind out of his sails, after all what's left to say after three hours of Rush on the radio, he simply didn't have anything new to say, so he switched to the other side.

At any rate Ed Schultz is now the liberal Rush Limbaugh, I still listen to him on occasion simply because I leave the radio on that station when I take my morning soak in the tub and when I sleep to late, he comes on after the local stuff I listen to like the news, weather and farm prices (something left over from my life on the farm I guess).

Ed has been on all the news shows now, in case you missed him spouting his own version of liberalism, and the liberal's are now haveing edgasams all over themselves.

I sure am glad I moved to SOUTH Dakota where the only thing I have to hang my head about is Tom Dashall and not Ed Shultz.

We Dakota'ns are a strange bunch, especally those in the North, they regularly vote in Republican Governors and a Republican majority in the State Congress but always send Democrat's to Washington. It has always made me wonder but I think it's more that the men, who are mostly consrvative vote more often in the local elections, women who are mostly liberal flood the national elections. But again that doesn't explain why both states almost always vote Republican in the Presidential elections.

In South Dakota, we recently sent our formor Governor to Washington, but now he is facing manslaughter charges here at home and it's now my understanding that should he be convicted and step down, or be expeled from congress, there has to be an emergency State Election, and the office set's vacant till the election is over.

Enough of my halloween rant.

Write on.


Jerry 10-31-2003 11:12

Good Morning, Writers! :-]

BEN: Yea, you, for signing up with NaNoWriMo! :-) You go, boy! Write fast and furious and let the story take YOU somewhere - it will, you know. I'm teetering on signing up... have a few ideas... or I could devote similar time to polishing the beginning of my current old twisted messy novel and make it shinier by Nov. 30 - one week to fix the prologue, one week to finish inserts to Chapter One, one week to fix transitionary material, last week to review Prologue and Chapter One for regurgitated flow...might work better for me than trying something new... then again, You signed up... maybe I should just bite the bologna and dive into the foray, woo-hoo! :-)

TEEKAY: A paying story? YEEHAH!!!!! :-) You go, girl! Keep 'em coming!!!

ALL: Write treasures today, sparkling and memorable!

And now, back to the mundane, ho-hum...

Mel 10-31-2003 7:49

Hi Everybody,

I am going to stop trying to mention everybody's name, it bogs me down, it's like one of those little memory exercises (and that's just what I have, a little memory, roughly that of a dehydrated earthworm.) I do remember Debra, though. Hi Debra.

Jerry, I was in South Dakota a year ago, August. What a place. The Badlands, wow. And the Black Hills, Sturgis, what a hoot. Oh, to be in Sturgis now that August's here. Vroom Vroom. I had my my bike, of course. And driving across the High Plains, two days of watching corn going by. After two days, I am asking the age old question, "Who the hell eats all this corn?" Really, two days of corn at 65 MPH, you start to wonder about things like that. And I didn't even see Kansas and Oklahoma. No wonder they want to make gasoline out of it. No kidding, they could plant corn on the entire state of Massachusetts and there wouldn't be as much as half the corn in Minnesotta. And Debra lives in RI. Six bags of Jiffy Pop would take car of that.

So, Heather is among the missing, I see, according to Teekay. I can't think of a thing to say about that. I know I didn't take her.

What about Americo? (Yeah, I know, He didn't take her either.)

Anyone see that Road Runner movie, The Fast and The Furry-assed?

Later

10-31-2003 1:52

Ya, figured I had some sort of virus. Decided not to mess around with it since I just reformated a few days ago, I just reformated again and started over. What a pain.

Jerry 10-31-2003 1:13

Gariess - Yep, damn hard to keep them lit and you should see how big a paper you need to roll'em!

Left a little Haloween shorty in the shorty section. Didn't take much time so it's a bit rough, I may work on it again later, just typed it in the box so exceuse the typo's.

Jerry 10-31-2003 1:10

I knew I'd mispel it!

It was


Frederick Nietzsche
"Was mich nicht umbringt, macht mich stärker."
(What doesn't kill me makes me stronger.)


Howard 10-30-2003 22:30

Hi! - Trying to catch up on some homework, and doing some research for a couple of short papers. I wanted to find the origins of a couple of familiar phrases:
"What doesn't kill me makes me stronger."
and
"Better live in hope than die in despair."

The first was easy -- Frederick Neitsche

The second took a bit more time, but I was able to find it is an old Scottish peoverb.

I did find a couple of sites that might be interesting/useful for anyone into that sort of thing:

http://phrases.shu.ac.uk

http://www.scottishgatherings.co.uk/page87.html

cheers!
and back on your heads! :-)
howard

howard 10-30-2003 22:28

Yeah Gariess:

Debra 10-30-2003 21:30

MEL, I signed up. I don't know why--it was a sperm of the moment idea--but I figured,hey, why not? I'm thinking I'll take that short story and do something with it. It looks like I can do something with it. At least, I hope I can. It starts off okay, or so-so, depending on your point of view...now, if I only had an idea of where I want to take it....

ben 10-30-2003 18:07

Aiy Carumba,
just checked out anotherealm and my very first paying short story has come up.

I've posted the link if anyone is interested.

Got 4 reasonably shitty reviews on it, but I've consoled myself that they must have been written by people of an anal retentive nature :-D

Now, back to that brilliant day.


Teekay Link 10-30-2003 17:56

GARIESS: (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) you!!!
It's so great to have you back.
What have you been up to??

HOWARD: and (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) to Dorrie.
She'll be glad when it's all over.
It's a bit like going to the dentist, scary at first, but a relief in the end, well, not the end, the top, but you knowe what I mean :-D - and you get one of those lovely pre-meds at the hospital.
I'm sure the third irritation will be around for ages, just so as not to prove me right :-D

MEL: That site sounds really interesting. RHODA came to mind when I was reading it, she wanted to do something like that some time ago. I'm going to check it out, but I know what you mean about the distractions.
Who knows though. Shall take a looksee.

ALL: Have a thoroughly brilliant day. I for one intend to.

Calling ARIK, come in ARIK. And HEATHER, your AWOL time is running fairly short too, show yourself soon or be dragged back :-D

Going...

Teekay 10-30-2003 16:52

Yeah MEL, I just checked out the month long novel contest, and I must say I liked it. I read some of the post of writers here in town, and wow, I liked that too. I've got a day to decide. Maybe I can take that story I started and work on that?...

ben 10-30-2003 16:47

WOW! I just checked the website for NANOWRIMO and it's AWESOME! If you need any writing inspiration, read a few of the forum posts by writers gearing up for the all-month chaos of writing 50,000 words - what a hoot! I'm almost a believer... maybe I could try something brand new, from scratch... I do love a clean writing pad and a fresh pen! :-)

Mel still, again 10-30-2003 15:39


I just learned in an email from a co-worker that November is NaNoWriMo (National Novel Writing Month).

"National Novel Writing Month is a fun, seat-of-your-pants approach to novel writing. Participants begin writing November 1. The goal is to write a 175-page (50,000-word) novel by midnight, November 30.

"Valuing enthusiasm and perseverance over talent and craft, NaNoWriMo is a novel-writing program for everyone who has thought fleetingly about writing a novel but has been scared away by the time and effort involved."

Anyone up for the challenge? :-) It's an interesting concept, to be sure... Don't know as I'm brave enough to plunge in, with all the distractions distracting me right now... then again, maybe it's a way to get the sequel to my first book written, however sketchily... hmmm...

Mel again National Novel Writing Month 10-30-2003 13:44

Garries,

It is good to see you back. I'm glad you were able to google up the site (grins). I don't know why, but google up, sounds naughty to me... Guess it's just my wicked mind in action.

Take care you.

RDRKO

Rachel 10-30-2003 11:14

I'm not sure which is the worse fink - my muse or my villain - they've been holding out on me! Just received a revelation...that belongs in my novel's PROLOGUE, while here I've been struggling with Chapter One... didn't look back far enough... sigh. Maybe I'll roast 'em both in the Epilogue, heh heh, yeah... ;-]

Oh, howdy folks! Just a bit of my writer's temper flaring there... I wish you all a vigorous day of writing!

Welcome back, GS!

Teekay, I meant to add, I'm proud of your literary efforts of late, in spite of the big fight against procrast... well, the P word! :-) You go, girl! Enjoy the Spring...

Many individual thoughts to many of you - just haven't got time now to address each one - consider yourselves all hugged and cheered on for the day!

Mel 10-30-2003 9:59

Yes -- welcome back GARIESS! We're happy to see you again!

I may not get much keyboard time in for a few days. We had another conference with the doc, and Dorie has decided that she wants to have both procedures done now. So tomorrow at 10 she'll have the fusion to take care of the slipped/disintegrated disk, as well as the decompression to take the pressure off the nerve a bit farther up on her spine. According to the doc this should take care of the two sources of irritation.
The third source will still be around for quite a while (we hope) to take care of her... :-)



howard 10-30-2003 7:18

GARIESS -- Welcome back, pal. You've been missed.

Mark 10-30-2003 6:45

I just read Jerry's post wherin he declares he has begun smoking. I quote: "Sorry I've been busy, you see I started smoking last week, and as of today, I've smoked over thirty pounds of salmon, nearly a dozen chickens and a huge mess of walleye pike."

Jerry, You must tell me how you light those. Do you have to dry them for a long time? Actually, I'd be a little queazy after the first ten pounds of Salmon.

I suppose I should check to see if I have been pre-empted on this question, but without reading the follow-ups I will just plunge in.


gariess 10-30-2003 1:15

Teekay,

God bless you. I just looked at your post a little way down the page, and I swear a tear came to my eye. it's hard not to believe in fate, at times. Sorry I can't account for Arik, however. If he does show up, now, fate will be affirmed, for sure.

Anyway, Rachel, Howard, Rhoda, Jerry, all of you, You are like a constant that exists in a world so uncertain and fleeting. I hate to start mentioning names, I always miss a bunch when I do that. Back to reading.

10-30-2003 0:30

Hey, you guys. It must be looking like old home week. I know I haven't been here for a dog's age, but I found my way back, like so many old dogs do. I have a whole new computer, and I lost all my old bookmarks, but it finally dawned on me that I should be able to Google up the Notebook, and guess what, Under WRITERS NOTEBOOK you are third in the list. I know that may be less than some might expect, but it did get me back here. Amazingly, there was a sentence fragment in the search that mentioned Randall, so I thought I might have the right hit. Of course when the page came up and I saw the name, Jerry, I knew I was in the right place. I have to go and read some of your posts, now.

Gariess 10-30-2003 0:18

Jerry,
Looks like you have SOBER
Yes.....HAVE, not ARE!


Details;

W32.Sober@mm is a mass-mailing worm that uses its own SMTP engine to spread itself. The subject of the email varies, and it will be in either English or German.

The name of the email attachment varies, and it will have a .bat, .com, .exe, .pif, or .scr file extension.

This threat is written in the Microsoft Visual Basic programming language and is compressed with UPX.

When W32.Sober@mm is first run, it may display the fake error message "File not complete

I don't think it will get as bad as SoBig.
Ed


Eddie French 10-29-2003 15:29

First thing I read when I open the notebook: Jerry, good luck on the smoking.

I think, Wait a minute! Jerry shouldn't be smoking!

Then I find out...it's a smoker ... smoked salmon. Now that's something I could get my teeth into. My family used to drive all the way to Seattle in the late summer to buy smoked salmon and stay in a small hotel in Port Townsend. I took my family there about 25 years after and it was just like it'd always been. Lovely and cool with beautiful stretches of beach. Plus the smoked salmon tasted just the same.

There is nothing better than smoked meat. I have a bit of a holiday. Tomorrow I'm pulling out my smoker and some ribs and chicken. Salmon has to wait until I can get up at 3:30AM and get down to the Tsukiji Fish Market. Yawn...not yet. It's the first day of vacation. Finally don't have to be up at 5:00AM.

Viv 10-29-2003 7:49

Jerry: Good luck on the smoking.

For everyone: I am actively looking over a number of possibilities for updating the Notebook using PHP so that I can block certain IP addresses, including our spammers. Hope everyone will keep coming back and I will keep everyone posted as I am able to get this up and running. As I stated earlier, it may involve login and passwording. But we will see. Thanks for your patience and I hope to have a much more robust Notebook going and running in the near future.

Jack Beslanwitch 10-29-2003 4:06

Wow you don't look at the notebook for awhile and the loonies take over.

Sorry I've been busy, you see I started smoking last week, and as of today, I've smoked over thirty pounds of salmon, nearly a dozen chickens and a huge mess of walleye pike.

Man is that smoked meat good, the whole family loves it. Got an old propane smoker that I keep in the garage. Good thing to since the cold has arrived and along with it very strong winds.

My damn computer started sending emails on it's own so if you get anything from my address don't open it. I have Norton doing a scan right now, in fact Norton is who's telling me about it, it keeps popping up the Norton email sending scan and says there's no virus in the outgoing email, only problem is, I'm not sending mail. In fact I have my email program shut down so what ever is doing it has it's own mail client.

Tried Mcafe's but it let more crap through so I finally un-installed it and went back to Norton.

There has to be a SPECIAL PLACE IN HELL for those who write and distribute viruses.

BACK ON YOUR HEADS!

Write on.


Jerry 10-29-2003 0:22

TAYLOR: Hi there, long time no see :-)

RACHEL: Bummer. I hope it all works out.


MEL: :-D How appropriate. Sure am glad to know I have company.
I feel rather 'outside my box' for the self control I've exerted.
Wonder if I can keep it up.
What I found was, I just ignored everything except the unignorable like feeding and tending the child, until I'd accomplished my set task for the day.
It was amazingly liberating.


Going...


Teekay 10-28-2003 16:32

Ben

The creek is a wicked and wide :o) It is beautiful, but leads to much wet and muck. The property owner left us with quite a mess. So much of a mess that we have decided there is no way for us to right what he has done. Dan and I both have blown out shoulders and the moving of rock doesn't much agree with us. It isn't that though, it is the principle of the thing. They guy came out to dig a drain ditch for the guy who lives above the barn, he made a mess of it and wants us to clean it up. My issue is that now my horses can't be out in the paddock that we made for them. Dan and I worked our asses off to scrape, level and load that thing so that it would be dryish. We dug drain troughs and things were okay. Now my horses can't be out in it at all. My son can't be out in the yard because there is a twenty by thirty pond where the owner got the diger thing stuck, which he figures we can just fill in by hand! I'm a pretty positive sort and am willing to give things a try to help out, but this is over the top. There are dirt mounds almost as tall as me. I can't let Seb out in the yard, as if he fell in the pond thing he would drown. I'm feeling ticked off and frustrated. I can't expect my neighbour to give me long term use of her paddock, that just isn't fair. At this rate I'm going to need to pay to have the stay off site. That is going to involve transportation costs (lucky for me that will be a six pack), but if I didn't know somebody, it would cost a lot more. Then there is the actual keep of the horse. That is big bucks no matter how you slice it. The lowest rates I've seen are about 160 per horse, per month and that is if I come in to feed myself. I would be wanting to deduct that from my rent (grrrrrrrrrr)! Man am I ever pissed! The more I think about it and all the work that we put into those pens, the angrier I get! We had it to the point where all we needed to do was put down a few yards of rock dust and some rubber matts, then we would be set for the winter. Now I really don't see how any of this can be set to rights. I had a couple of inches of muck and most of the area was quite dry, now I've got a foot or more of soft turned up earth!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! I've told Dan he will need to speak to the guy, because I'm about ready to go off on him.

Litter,

It's cool that I got sort of close (grins).

All,

Sorry for the wicked rant but I couldn't hold it back. I'm freakin' out!!!!!!

RDRKO

Rachel 10-28-2003 11:26

TEEKAY: A book I ordered - The Procrastinator's Workbook - was on backorder for awhile (ha!) but it has finally arrived. Procrastinating is no longer an option, according to this book, although I haven't read most of it...maybe next month...!

Hi to all!!!

Back to being bulldozed by LIFE DISTRACTIONS...

Mel 10-28-2003 8:37

RACHEL: I can just imagine the poor mess you've had to deal with over the last couple of weeks. It's rainin' again, right now, as I type this--it's 1:45 am--and I'm sorry for that. I guess that little creek in the back is a raging torrent by now. You just take your time... :-)

ben 10-28-2003 4:46



lianchun yang fluor 10-28-2003 2:49

**Taylor**

Just want to apolagise for my sporradic posts of late. Have been busy with writing these days. I've been checking up on this site every now and again to see how you lot are doing.
Hope all is well

Taylor 10-27-2003 22:09

LITTER: Does sectioned mean locked away? :-D

I love the look of Gaelic words, but it's beyond me how some of them are pronounced. Now Katie, spelt the Gaelic way looks absolutely gorgeous, but Katie spelt the English way looks rather plain.

Now I know what Anne of Green Gables meant when she insisted her name be spelled with an 'e'.

ALL: I have just typed THE END!!!!!!
And with 3 days to go.

I'm taking a 3 day holiday from it and then I'll start editing the chapters. I've allowed myself a week per chapter.
I'm very generous with myself :-D

Ah, no one can know what this means, unless they are as procrastinatory as I am.
And those of my procrastinatroy calibre are very hard to find.

Have a good day all.
Mine is shining all over in a soft golden light, the birds are singing and all is well.

*sigh*




Teekay 10-27-2003 21:25

Hi Peeps.

Seems that some of you are far too bright for your own good. (You know who you are!) Ceiteag (Irish Gaelic) is indeed pronounced as Katie. TEEKAY – I think I have my daughter sectioned if she chose a name that was pronounced Saytar. (Far too close to Satyr – somewhat dark and worrying for a little girl…) RACHAEL – fair guess but not quite right, but thanks for trying. I'm trying to persuade my daughter to go for the more 'classy' Scot's Gaelic spelling, which is 'Ceitidh'. (Still pronounced, Katie.) Ceitidh, is the pet name for the Celtic proper name, 'Catriona', (NOT pronounced Katie!!!) which is my daughter's name, so it's all very sweet and poetic. Less than two weeks to go and counting…

Still got the moles but there seems to be less activity so I must be getting some of the little buggers, but my back garden is in an awful mess. Still, it's nearing Guy Fawkes' night (when we in the UK set off our fireworks,) and there is a plentiful supply of low grade explosives in the shops, so I expect my garden to fly skywards sometime in the next few days… Don't think I like the 'Louisiana solution' of eating them. Doesn't seem very appetising to me, but then I do like alligator.

A friend of my daughter is determined to be sociable (at 1.45am!) so I had better go.

Ciao for now,


Litter 10-27-2003 20:47

Ben,

Fear Not :o) You will hear from me (Bwah, ha, ha, ha,ha!!!!!!!!!!)

I've been out having fun with big O drain pipe and nine yards of drain rock (oh yeah baby, I'm havin' some fun now)!

Ciao for now.

RDRKO

Rachel 10-27-2003 18:29

Okay, I finally posted something in the Workbook if anyone is interested. It's the opening of a story I'm working on at the moment. I'm on nightshift for the next couple of weeks, so I won't be looking at anything until tomorrow.

Oh yeah, Rachel: "?"

ben 10-27-2003 16:03

Viv,

I wish you luck and hope that your approach works for you. I honestly do.

As far as the outside of the class stuff, it has been an area of study for a long time. I'm not the first to think of it. Into the deal, my husband works with marginalized children in the school system. He helps them to develop social skills that will enable them to interact with others. He also works with behaviours within the class without the focus being on the child. He does group work with a central figure whom he gears activities to. It works without the child feeling that they have been singled out.

I've taken care of children who are maginalized due to either mental, physical or behavioural issues. I have a different take on a lot of in class things than I did before I had first hand experience. I've seen the school side and the parents side of the matter. I think that there are times when the "table" is a good thing and other times, when integration is the name of the game.

As far as walking home, that can be a very freak out experience for children. I provide care for a boy who is a target. His fathers way of approaching this, is to pick him up from school and drop him off. While he has been in my care I've had him walk home with a group. We've talked about safe choices and the like. He has only had some minimal problems. I know that there isn't always safety in numbers, but it sure helps. That along with the fact that my kids pretty much are in what we call a "walking school bus" This is when different parents take turns walking to or from school with the children. It is amazing what one adult presence will do to deter the average bully. If you don't have a walking school bus in your area you could look into setting one up. they can be formal or informal and it can be easier for parents than needing to be avaliable to pick their children up every single day. Depending on the size of your group, you could only need to walk one a week, or maybe even less. I know lots of parents who come out for all the walks, be it there turn or not. I think that is cool. My kids know where the adults are, but as they are older, tend to feel quite safe. They stay in their group and are home within a designated space of time. I however loved the walking school bus when they were younger :o)

I really do wish you all the best of luck with your efforts. It is people like you, who care and are willing to do more than hand out their concerns that will make the difference.

RDRKO

RDRKO

Rachel 10-27-2003 14:02

Randall

Jack...Thank you for the response. It is discourging to see such lunacy on our notebook. I understand errant behavior is a problem not easily addressed. A password might be the only way out. Anyway, many thanks...

Randall

Randall 10-26-2003 18:13

Randal: I am a little busy at the moment, but recently the server available for Writers Notebook and forwriters.com now is PHP capable. This means I may start looking at an alternative for Writers Notebook that allows me to block unwanted domains. I may even look at alternatives that require login and password. Thanks for your thoughts. This will not happen immediately, but I will make a stab at archiving sometime in the next week or so and weed out the spams and garbage.




Jack Beslanwitch 10-26-2003 16:43


Rachel,
Now why do you think anyone could get away with anything more by sitting at a different table? My voice reaches over to the other tables too. I can keep my eye on the entire class simply by backing up and keeping all in view. (This is only 15-30 kids we're talking here!) Nope, I just don't like a "special ed table".

You bring up a good point about playgrounds. There's also the problem of walking home. Good homework assignment you've assigned. I think I'm going to spend some time on the playground observing and also do some neighborhood dog walking after school. It helps to have all the mothers out walking in the neighborhood as the kids come home from school. You can't be everywhere but if you can keep an eye on things and keep them gentle you can make a big difference.

Thanks for the heads up on the problems outside the classroom. I didn't know and I don't think anyone else had thought about that. I was never bullied until I was an adult and met adult bullies. Bullies still completely bewilder and disgust me.

I can't make it perfect but I sure can make it better for one kid.

Viv 10-26-2003 6:21

TEEKAY -- just missed you in the chat room.
Our daylight savings time ends tonight -- an extra hour's sleep! Yay!

howard 10-25-2003 19:58

Gwarsh Mickey, it's quiet here today.

Well, daylight savings has begun. We have yet to set all the clocks an hour forward.
I love daylight savings. I always seem a little more organised then.

Haven't been doing any writing over the weekend. Actually, haven't been doing much of anything.
There's a craft show on today, so I plan to mooch around there for an hour or four.

Hope everyone is okay.

going...

Teekay 10-25-2003 19:55

MARK: Nu uh, there weren't no new topic in the shorty one.
The only way I got to a new topic one in the shorty one was to go to Jerry's story and go thru there.
And then it only came up if you opened Jerry's story first.

Going back to the corner.

Teekay 10-25-2003 1:26

TEEKAY -- go to the corner and come out when you can explain how you managed to post in WIP. That would be how you post in Shorty.

Hint. There's a button that says "New Topic"

Mark 10-24-2003 21:17

Randall - glad to hear you survived the "operation" I wish mine had been the same.

Howard - my Doc said "the incission will be only one inch, you should be able to cover it with a thumbnail. When I woke up, he had split me from the begining of my 'crack' to the midpoint of my back, I would guess it about a foot and a half. When I questioned him about it, he explaind that I was a bit "thicker" then he had thought.

Hope your wife has better luck, I'm sure she will after all they must have made strides in methods since '93.


Jerry 10-24-2003 21:10

MARK: Well, stick me in a corner and call me stupid, but I couldn't find a way to submit in the shorty section, so I put up a shorty in the WIP's section.

Sorry. Could you explain to me know how to do it? Make the instructions simple.

Have a great day all.

It's the weekend. I have allowed myself the luxury of not having to type out any chapters on the weekend end, unless I feel like it.

Teekay 10-24-2003 19:52

Viv,

Hum... You'll not have a "special table" Does that mean that you will have the children with issues spread through the class, so that they can disrupt on a wide scale and you can't keep an eye on what is happening?

As far as the girl being treated fairly well in the class. It isn't the class that I would be worried about. I was treated very well in class. The school yard has it's own rules, codes and laws. It is in the yard that I would worry for this girl. Parents and teachers can watch the put on, we will be good, world of the class room and be fooled into thinking it is indicates the whole reality of a childs world. That is not a wise way to think.

Best thing you can do for this kid, is help her out with methods of learning till you find one that works, if there is one that will work for her and don't focus on what she can't do, but what she can do.

Good luck to you and to her.

RDRKO

Rachel 10-24-2003 12:46

Brian how are you? this is norm close your curtains and enjoy your meal

Norm large pigeon 10-24-2003 4:20

JENNIFER -- Move your cursor to the "Writers Notebook" bar at the top of this page, then select the Writers Workbook from the dropdown menu. Click on that, and you'll be taken to the notebook page (Hang on, because you're jumping from somewhere near Seattle to a spot about 200 miles NW of NY City!) :-)
Follow the directions on that page to register, and Mark or I will enable your id to read/write in the various forums there.
It's not meant to replace this notebook, but to provide a more secure place for crits on works in progress, and a quiet out of the way corner for topics not everyone is interested in -- like the current 'religion' discussion.

howard 10-23-2003 23:07

Looking back over her shoulder with one last thought...

Howard, the "neut" makes it even better!

Viv 10-23-2003 21:26

THANK YOU HOWARD! Also cute little joke which kind of lightened my rather down mood.

Rachael: She feels different and that's not good. I was watching the class and they don't seem too bad but she's stuck at the "has problems" table. There won't be one of those tables in MY classroom that's for sure. She's not like the others who have difficulties, hers are not emotional, just a slight wiring problem.

Viv 10-23-2003 21:24

Hi there, I have been writing lately, reading tons of books so haven't had a lot of extra time. Not pleased with the long rambles in the notebook.. couldn't make any real sense of it. I have no password or at least don't know what it is so if I can get some help. If we go to the other book I don't qant to be left out. I hope everyone is well. Jennifer

Jennifer 10-23-2003 20:58

Rhoda,

I'm the only person in my family, on either side who has dyslexia.

Howard,

Grin, snort. You da funny guy (smiles and hugs).

Ciao for now.

RDRKO

Rachel 10-23-2003 16:57

NIGHT! -- he sat up all NIGHT!!
!!!!!grrhhhhhaaaaA

howard 10-23-2003 16:21

VIV -- No trouble at all, your new password is on its way to your email.

Can't resist this one -- apologies in advance...

Did you hear about the dyslexic agnostic insomniac who sat up all nught wondering if there really is a dog?

howard 10-23-2003 16:19

Dyslexia runs in my husband's family. Both of his brothers have it. Somehow it missed Frank.




Rhoda 10-23-2003 15:10

Rhoda,

Rachel sounds like she was a sweet heart. My kittens both were born in a barn. We were worried that they would be wild, they are not. Well, maybe a little wild (grins and laughter)!

Viv,

Yeah, I can imagine what that little girl is feeling (smiles). I was stamped and sealed as severe dyslexic when I was a kiddie. I had some advantages that got me all sorts of special attention (supposed to be quite the bright one, I am - grin/wink). Anyway, I hope that it goes well for this girl and that she establishes the paths for communication brain to fingers that she needs. I can remember thinking I had the words right, then being told they were wrong, or didn't make any sense. I think that about the worst hang over from dyslexia that I've got is the spelling. I always thought that it was a simple fact that I've got rotten spelling. More recently I looked at a lot of the errors that I make and see that dyslexia and I are still holding hands in some areas. It doesn't matter though. I've got spell check :o) Hum, looking back at dyslexia and school, I remember that the adults were nice (almost too nice) and the children were mean as hell. I hope this kid is okay and well treated by her school mates.

Ciao for now.

RDRKO

Rachel 10-23-2003 11:30

Jerry and other computer experts need some tips:

Another amazing day in the classroom. Today I worked with my first dislexic child. Can you imagine thinking of one word and having your hand write another. I'm amazed at how pleasant this little person is. If I were she, I'd throw the pen across the room and scream in disgust. (There's a ghost story for you. Your hand writes what you don't want, and ignores you when you want to write.)

She explained to me very sweetly, "I mean to write the word but my hand puts down another." Then we played with puppets and she orally gave me a complete story, good beginning, middle and end. I know that computers take voice commands. How does one begin with this? Is it very expensive and complex. We have Windows 97 in our classroom. (Not exactly a porsche of a computer)

A very disgusted me here. Howard, would you please resend that workbook password once Dorrie is better. I can't believe this. I was working with my e-mail and I accidently deleted everything...I think. I was deleting an e-mail that I knew had a virus. My friend called me and said to delete her e-mail because she had a virus. So I was deleting and boom, nothing there. Nothing in the trash either. Ran a virus check afterwards and got nothing. Lovely. So I guess it hit and ran.

However, Howard if you think it might infect your e-mail to send an e-mail, please don't send it to me at my mailbox. There are so many virus' out there right now. I am scared to put my new computer on the internet. I just use it for Word and Power Point. (And I bought it to make websites. :(

Carol: Once I have word from my husband and from my friend Chris who is a genius and computer whiz, and I'm sure I'm virus free, I will send you an e-mail. I also lost your e-mails. Not a happy camper about that.

My that was one laxative e-mail, and that's all I have to say on the subject. As frustrating as could be when you have one week's worth of vacation. The answer to this is to just get to writing and let the posting go until I get the password again.

So HOWARD, don't hurry. Relax and work for Dorrie this week. I'm so glad she's going to be ok and is in good hands.

As for those classes, how amazing they must be. Enjoy!


Viv 10-23-2003 8:09

HALLEE -- and all the rest -- thanks for your prayers and good thoughts for Dorie. The surgeon found two problems with her back, and said that, according to the MRI , she should have been in constant pain for the last several years, due to a vertebra being out of place. But this has not been the case -- the intense pain has been only in the past month. The other condition, with the herniated disk, is causing more numbness and weakness in her leg than anything else, but is a more immediate problem. So she's scheduled for surgery on 10/31 to correct that. He described it as a simple procedure, shouldn't take more than an hour, with an inch-long incision, and she'll have only an overnight stay in the hospital. Then after that heals, he'll address the other condition, first with therapy and injections, then surgery if necessary. We're thankful that it's not any worse than that.

Re Moles -- around here they're the size of a mouse, and if true moles, they don't much bother with the house. There's another critter about the same size called a Vole, and they do get into the house. We used to heat with wood, and the voles would come in and eat the bark off the forewood. I'd sit on the cellar steps and shoot them with .22 birdshot as they ran across the floor. The birdshot was fairly safe to use indoors, but once in a while I'd catch a pellet (they're tiny) that ricocheted back at me. They wouldn't break the skin much, but boy would they sting! They would drop the voles though, and I got to be a pretty good shot with them.
The thing about voles and moles is that cats will sometimes kill them, but they won't eat them like they will a mouse.

Speaking of mice -- we had a work night at church on Monday, and one of the chores was to cut down a big spruce tree that stood next to the driveway. it was about 40 years old, and had a sizeable layer of dead needles under it. There were several mice nesting in this, and they started skittering around. One ran right up our pastor's leg. He danced quite a jig!

Probably 15 years ago I saw our two cats in the front yard playing with a deer mouse. They're really quite a pretty little critter. This one was terrified, and the cats were just playing with it. So I walked out in the yard and interrupted their fun. The mouse ran up my leg (on the outside of my jeans), continued up the front of my shirt, and dove right into my shirt pocket! I was as startled as she was! She peeked out at me, and decided that she would be safe there for a while. The cats disappeared, and I bent over and dropped her out of my pocket onto the top of a boulder in our front yard. She sat there a minute, then darted into the space between the boulder and a piece of driftwood we had there for decoration. She had a nest under there with some babies in it. It was a neat experience!



howard 10-22-2003 22:55

RACHEL,

My cat, Rachel, was the best of hunters. She was also a wonderful cat, and my very first pet. I named her after a character in a movie, a little Jewish girl named Rachel who befriends a little Catholic boy. The movie was called HAND IN HAND. I don't know why the name impressed me so much, but I used it the first opportunity I had. Rachel the cat lived to the ripe old age of thirteen. In her long lifetime, she had many close calls. Once she was almost poisoned to death and then she was once hit by a car. Then she had gotten into many fights and had many wounds that needed the vet's care. Deep down she was really an old farm cat. I lost her when I was 20 and I still miss her. I miss them all, all my kitties that I have enjoyed and lost over the years.

RANDALL,

Hard to believe there was some hidden message in that stuff AMANDA put out, but I agree with you. With all the strange things going on in the world right now, one cannot rule out anything.



Rhoda 10-22-2003 22:09

Randall

Greetings my friends...

Jack, in light of certain posts which are appearing on your site...may I make a suggestion...a limit on the amount of insanity that will be tolerated? There are avenues around this I suppose... but it might make chronic offenders work harder. This site is in danger of being, if not already hijacked for reasons known only to sick minds. I feel that it may be someone who felt slighted on the site and exacting revenge. Sadly, there is no telling what coded messages might be in this weirdo's rambling. At least check the site frequently and delete such drivel as soon as it appears. Have you attempted to access the server that this dodo uses and lodge a complaint? I attempted to get to the end of the most recent post and my computer simply quit working. Whether this is related to the post or not is debatable.

Randall

Randall 10-22-2003 20:42

HALLEE: Sorry, I meant No. Not NO. :-)

Teekay 10-22-2003 18:01

HALLEE: NO, it's not a ghost story :-D
Though I would love to do one of those.
Mine is also an intrigue, romance, but it's a rather ridiculous one peopled with elderly characters clinging to the ways of the past in the modern day.

Lots of fun when I don't pressurise myself about what other people might like to read.

But wether anything comes of it or not, it's something I needed to do, if only for the learning experience.

3 chapters 8 days to go.

PHEW!


Gotta admit, I love that sense of having accomplished something when I finish off a chapter and run it through the printer.

What stage are you at with your Afghanistan intrigue/love story?

ALL:
Was thinking about GARIESS & ARIK last night. Wondering what's become of them, and missing them.

Going...



Teekay 10-22-2003 17:58

Rhoda!

How awful for your poor cat! I think it is so funny that you have a cat called Rachel (grins). I am sure that any being with the name Rachel would be good at what it did ;o) My two kittens are doing great. They are soooooo funny! They are brothers from the same litter and are adorable.

Litter,

My cats would love to chase after them for you. They get one now and then, but for the most part don't manage it. We don't worry much aboutt moles around here. They dig, the are, they make a snack for this and that. I guess if I had a show yard I would be quite worried. Hum, was my guess close? I didn't want to post it on the NB because I feel stupid tossing in my guess (blush).

Ciao for now.

RDRKO

Rachel 10-22-2003 17:25

Ack - I shoulda not been going so fast.

That should have been RHODA - my boss's wife (Rhonda) called while I was typing. And the "J" following the name should have been a smiley, but the word processor converted it, then this thingie conerted it again.

sigh

It's Wednesday. PMS sucks. That is all.

Hallee 10-22-2003 16:37

RHONDA: Hiya J (((hugs))) on the rejections. I like inspirationals, too. Unfortunately, I found it hard to write. I kept trying to stem my style. Once I let it go and decided I could go edit whatever would be inappropriate for that genre of book, I was okay. But then this new one bit me, and I’ve shelved it for a bit now.

JENNIFER: Some of my work is on one of my websites. I put the link above.

HOWARD: How did your Dorie’s appointment go today? You all, as always, remain in my prayers.

What is UP with these people with the long-assed rambling hate-filled posts?

TEEKAY: Is your book a ghost story? Every time I read a ghost story now, I think of you.



Hallee some short stories here 10-22-2003 16:35

LITTER,

I forgot to give you the Louisiana solution. Eat them. Shoot every mole you see. Freeze the meat and put it in soup or gumbo or somthing. Nutria are rat-like creatures that are found here in Louisiana. The state of Louisiana pays you $4.00 for every Nutria tail, plus you can buy Nutria meat in any specialty food store.

Would moles taste good in hagis? Try it. Smart people never ask what is in it. It either tastes good or it doesn't.

Rhoda 10-22-2003 15:04

LITTER,

I know nothing about moles. Are they as big as rats or bigger? Cats are great hunters, but moles are probably too big for most cats. Perhaps a good hunting dog would be a consideration. Can you keep bee-bee guns in the UK? You could at least get some sport while you do away with them.

I just hope you do not have to resort to poison. I hate rat and mouse poison, and I would never, never use it unless I had absolutely no other choice. One of my old cats was a great mouser, and a neighbor started to use rat poison. Poor Rachel, my cat, got very sick going after those poor mice who were slowed down and sickened by the poison, but not killed.

Are there traps for moles? I really never heard of a mole infestation. Interesting. We have had mice, and we did three things:

1.) Put the cat on them.

2.) Cleaned up whatever they could feed on (in our case it turned out to be grass seed).

3.) Set traps.

Those three things took care of the problem. If you starve the things off, they go away looking for greener fields. I think getting rid of the grass seed did more than anything else.

You might also want to have a building inspector look at your home and try to determine where the moles are coming in. You might have to replace some weather stripping or do some caulking.

Boy, for someone who knows nothing, I have had a lot to say! Hopefully something might help.

AMANDA does make YANG's advertisements look more palatable. At least YANG is involved in commerse and works for a living.

Rhoda 10-22-2003 14:59

Taylor,

I find it hard to look at her posts for more than a moment. That much print dedicated to what I view as unworthy of my attention has a way of making me look away ;o) I Amanda... Hum, can I fill in the rest (wicked laughter)!!!!

Nice to see you posting Taylor.

Take care you.

RDRKO

Rachel 10-22-2003 12:03

**Taylor**

Look closely Rachel: Damadian rearranged could be I Amanda

Taylor 10-22-2003 11:43

That "no" for the other thing was to indicate disagreement with your statement -- they DO write much better than I...


howard 10-22-2003 10:45

VIV -- The varieties are:

Spanish Roja
Inchelium Red
German Porcelain
Silver Rose
Plus the one I've been growing for years -- Chesnok Red.

Yes, I'm taking two "writing emphasis" classes, and yes, they like my poetry. And for the other thing, no. One of my teachers is Irish, grew up in England. She teaches the Story Telling and Folk Tales class that I'm taking, as well as different levels of writing classes, and she also teaches a class or two on Shakespeare. I may sign up for one of the Shakespeare classes. My other prof also teaches remedial writing (I've tutored in his classes), and is more into the poetry and short story end of things. He also organises the writing workshops for the school, and those are always interesting.




howard 10-22-2003 10:42

Litter:

I could do more harm than good trying that one. WEll I could agree with someone, but I'll just wait for the answer. This can be as dangerous as guessing someone's weight.


Howard:

My prayers are with you.

Debra 10-22-2003 9:08

Litter: On the moles, pour gasoline on cotton balls, put them down the holes then cover the tops of the holes. Do it to as many as you can.

Do not light the cotton balls on fire. Just the fumes are enough to drive them off permanently.

Howard: A garlic garden! Wonderful! What varieties did you plant? Where do they come from? Plus you are taking a writing class? Lucky you. You'll blow them away with your poetry. The professor won't be able to write as well as you do.



Viv 10-22-2003 9:06

LITTER -- I'd agree with MARK on that one. Either Katie or Kathy.

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lianchun yang fluor 10-21-2003 22:45

LITTER -- Katie?

Mark 10-21-2003 21:46

LITTER: Saytar?


Teekay 10-21-2003 19:03

Hi All,

Anyone know how to get rid of moles? (Short of high explosives) 12 years we've been in this house and never seen one of the little buggers, now we're overrun with them.

HOWADR – Good thoughts and prayers for Dorie's surgery and recovery.

Now for a little phonetics test – My daughter has decided on the name for her baby, which is due in three weeks, but is expected in the next week according to the midwife who saw her last. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to venture suggestions for the correct pronunciation of the name, WITHOUT referring to baby name books or the internet – just give it your best shot and see how you do. Her name is to be Ceiteag. Any offers?


Litter 10-21-2003 18:27

Hi All,

Anyone else see the anagram of Amanda in that last name? It also looked a little too close to CANADIAN for me. I honestly didn't read more than a line or more of either post. I can't stand when people drop off loads of crap to the NB.

Ah well. I had better dash. I've got a paper to write and need to clean the house before I sit down to it.

Ciao for now.

RDRKO

Rachel 10-21-2003 11:48

RHODA!!!! %$#*** ???

Such language from a lady!

:-)

Believe it or not, there are text generators that can create page after page of drivel such as that, simply by swallowing lists of phrases, digesting them, then spewing them out again. (Not saying which end they spew forth from).
But these are indeed entered by hand mostly -- there are maniacs out there who live for that purpose, and who get their kicks from producing such swill. These people are frightening. Have you ever read the Unibomber's "Manifesto?"

howard 10-21-2003 10:13

Has AMANDA hijacked the Notebook again? Why doesn't she sign up at Geocities and get her own %$#*** webpage. Pretty sick. I would not exactly call her an aspiring Matt Drudge.

HOWARD,

I am afraid you are right about password protection, though I would hate to see it. And these people are so lazy. No way did AMANDA just sit there and type all that crap in herself.

Rhoda 10-21-2003 8:41

Yecchhh! If this kind of stuff keeps up we might all have to adjourn to the workbook! At least it's password protected!

howard 10-21-2003 8:17

The Story of Raymond DAMADIAN


**
The Story of Independent Scientist Dr. Raymond DAMADIAN and a bite of imagination around the MRI (Magnetic Resonance Imaging)

**

- Imagination?

- Truth dear!.. Something ridiculous, beyond glamorous!.. This is a brand new RIDICULOUS FRAUD of the ZIONIST COMMITTEE MEMBERS; NOBEL PRIZE in MEDICINE (dis)MISSED the TRUE SCIENTIST!.. Sure, this is a true story of dismissed Scientist Raymond Damadian. Big shame, calls as "NPR case", too, I don't know why..
- Tv documentary team exposes today this clip;
Shameful Prize Scandal, Nobel 2003 in Medicine... - Folk says that
wrong persons awarded!... Nobel committee members drank so much, this time...
- Scandinavia is famous as drug paradise by official figures... - Frankly
thus shurk committee's corrupted friends prized; also, foxies Paul
Laterbur&Peter Mansfield... - Let's watch this interesting tv clip!..

**
- Nobel prize winners announced...
- The Nobel prize winners were announced recently, and not for the first time
there has been some controversary involved . Both the prize for Medicine and for
Physics were awarded for contributions to the development of Magnetic Resonance
Imaging (MRI). Paul Laterbur, and Peter Mansfield, were awarded the prize for
Medicine, while the prize for Physics went to Vitaly Ginsburg, Alexei Abrikosov
and Anthony Leggett. But a US researcher claims "the Nobel committee is
rewriting history"
- Nobel Prize in Medicine Contested and GeoGreg reporteed; "The AP is reporting
that Dr. Raymond Damadian is asking the Nobel committee to add him to the list
of recipients of this year's prize in medicine. His company claims that he made
the key discovery leading to MRI, and that the two recipients (Paul Laterbur and
Peter Mansfield) made technological improvements. This link indicates that
Damadian showed that magnetic resonance could distinguish between types of
tissue, while Laterbur and Mansfield showed that images could be formed using
magnetic resonance." - But the truth was little different... Committee
stink this time, very ugly... - Well, I've got to say that from that summary,
it does sound as if he has been overlooked and deserves to be recognised.
- If he's been overlooked, that's too bad, and maybe the Nobel Committee screwed
up. But they're not going to change their minds, and by whining about it, he
just makes himself look bitter. He's exactly right -- they are "above the law
and accountable to no one." And that means they can give their prize to whomever
they damn well choose. Right now, even though there are other awards that have a
higher monetary value, the Nobel is the most prestigious because of its name and
history. If they have a few spectacular screwups, maybe that won't be the case
any more, and Damadian will be vindicated. But that's history's judgement to
make.
- I agree. It's their choice, and it's their right to say "Sorry". And I'm glad
that the Nobel commite isn't in the US or they'd probably be sued every year.
That said, I still think is sounds like he deserves to be recognised. Just a
simple "he helped", "he contributed", or the guys who got it could say "we
couldn't have done it if we didn't know what he found out". But I agree, they
shouldn't be forced to give the prize to him too or anything.
- I heard an interview on NPR with one of the scientists who DID win, and either
he or the reporter noted that one of the things that had held up the awarding of
a prize for MRI for many years was the dispute over whether this third guy got
included or not. I didn't get any impression from the scientist that he
particularly cared. Which means that it was up to the Nobel committee, and they
made their decision after apparently looking at the question of whether he
should be included or not many times over the last decade or more. That said, I
suspect that the committee believes they made the right decision. The fact that
this guy is coming back with sour grapes now sure doesn't seem very
professional.
- The other way the story is being told is that the guy wouldn't accept if Dr D
was on it too. They had a long and bitter fight over priority which Dr D won.
- The Nobel prize committee can only choose between those people who are
noiminated, they can't nominate people themselves. So he shouldn't bitch to the
Nobel committee that they didn't choose him -- they didn't have the option to.
He should be bitching to the people who didn't nominate him with the others. In
either case, bitching and whining about not wining a prize is bad form. (I know
a similar case where someone's collaborators won the Nobel, but he wasn't
nominated. He wasn't happy about it, but his reaction was more "oh well".) - I
agree. It's their choice, and it's their right to say "Sorry". And I'm glad that
the Nobel commite isn't in the US or they'd probably be sued every year. That
said, I still think is sounds like he deserves to be recognised. Just a simple
"he helped", "he contributed", or the guys who got it could say "we couldn't
have done it if we didn't know what he found out". But I agree, they shouldn't
be forced to give the prize to him too or anything.
- I heard an interview on NPR with one of the scientists who DID win, and either
he or the reporter noted that one of the things that had held up the awarding of
a prize for MRI for many years was the dispute over whether this third guy got
included or not. I didn't get any impression from the scientist that he
particularly cared. Which means that it was up to the Nobel committee, and they
made their decision after apparently looking at the question of whether he
should be included or not many times over the last decade or more. That said, I
suspect that the committee believes they made the right decision. The fact that
this guy is coming back with sour grapes now sure doesn't seem very
professional.
- If he's been overlooked, that's too bad, and maybe the Nobel Committee screwed
up. But they're not going to change their minds, and by whining about it, he
just makes himself look bitter. He's exactly right -- they are "above the law
and accountable to no one." And that means they can give their prize to whomever
they damn well choose. Right now, even though there are other awards that have a
higher monetary value, the Nobel is the most prestigious because of its name and
history. If they have a few spectacular screwups, maybe that won't be the case
any more, and Damadian will be vindicated. But that's history's judgement to
make.
- It's ludicrous to think that the nobel committee would give the award to an
avowed creationist. it really doesn't matter that he invented the process. to
give this man a nobel would bring the prize into disrepute.
- Oh, christ, get over over the whole creationist thing already. It's one of
those beliefs that people don't just change, so there's no point in berating
them about it. The fact that he's a creationist (which I haven't even checked
for validity) has nothing to do with whether or not he invented the MRI idea.
- What on earth makes you think that a person's religious beliefs have anything
at all to do with whether or not they are eligible for the Nobel Prize? "Oh, I'm
sorry, you believe in Thor, so we can't possible give you this honor, but we
would have given it to you if you didn't... I don't suppose you could stop
believing in him for a couple of weeks, could you?"
- Would you give a prestigious scientific award to, say, a chemist who believed
the world was flat and the heavenly bodies rotated around it, regardless of his
contributions to chemistry?
- They gave one to a guy who's best friend was a firment of his imagination
[abeautifulmind.com], didn't they? If Watson & Crick had believed the world sat
on the back of a giant turtle, they still discovered DNA, and that's still a
Nobel-worthy achievement. For pete's sake, Alfred Nobel himself believed that if
he created a destructive enough weapon, it would end mankind's penchant for war.
Ergo, the Nobel Prize signifies ACHIEVEMENT, not BELIEF.
- Wasn't that schizophrenia? Creation science is a willing belief. I may think
people who go all out to prove dinosaurs are just a 'mystery' put down by God
are a little bit nuts, but it's not a mental illness.
- Anyone who thinks anything is put on earth as just a 'mystery' is a bit
silly.. Even the Church goers I'm friends with believe everything has a place
and a reason, but anyway... If you're taught something is true from birth.. and
you actually feel bound to it for the rest of your life, how is that different?
I mean, most Christians I know don't go oh.. I have no idea if God is real, but
I'm going to believe in him anyway. Being religious or not is not as simple as
deciding whether you'd rather have a car or a truck. This is something embedded
in their mind their entire life. They feel it is true with all their heart, and
it has absolutely nothing to do with their achievements..
- In some cases, yes it is. Overall though, I don't think so, but even if you
could say that.. What does a fixation with seeking identity have to do with
science?
- It's a lot like being gay, isn't it. I mean that deep need to join in the
Christian thing. It's like a deep seated fixation with seeking identity. Don't
you think.
- In some cases, yes it is. Overall though, I don't think so, but even if you
could say that.. What does a fixation with seeking identity have to do with
science?

**

- U.S. doctor makes rare protest over Nobel prize, reports tv redaction on 10
october 2003. Reuters referred... A U.S. doctor who owns a patent on magnetic
resonance imaging machines has made a rare public denouncement of the Nobel
Prize for Medicine committee, saying it explicitly omitted him from Monday's
shared award.

In a full page advertisement in The New York Times on Friday and The Washington
Post on Thursday, Raymond Damadian, president and founder of Fonar Corp.,
described the prize as "The Shameful Wrong That Must Be Righted."

The advertisement said that the two men who won the Nobel, Paul C. Lauterbur of
the University of Illinois and Sir Peter Mansfield of the University of
Nottingham, England, made technological improvements based on Damadian's work.

"When the announcement came out, my reaction was that I had been robbed of 33
years of my identity," Damadian, 67, told Reuters in a telephone interview. "The
Nobel committee is rewriting history and is engaged in a revision of history."

Damadian discovered in 1970 that differences between cancerous tissue and normal
tissue could be seen using nuclear magnetic resonance, a precursor to MRI
technology. His Melville, New York-based company makes and designs MRI scanners
that allow patients to stand up during the procedure.

Jealousy and complaints over Nobel laureates named in Sweden and Norway every
October are common, but public displays of disappointment and criticism such as
Damadian's are not.

In Stockholm, Hans Jornvall, secretary of the Nobel Assembly at Karolinska
Institutet, which picks the winner in medicine, said he was convinced the award
was correct and added that a Nobel prize could not be appealed.

"This is the first time I have heard of somebody taking out an advertisement,"
Jornvall said. "Science is my lfe. I would like it always to be happy but this
situation is clearly not happy."

- "DISREGARD FOR TRUTH", folk says...
- It's true!.. Damadian said that aside from his personal grievance, he believed
the Nobel committee had shown "wanton disregard for the truth" over the years.
He accused the panel of deliberately excluding him from the award worth $1.3
million.

"They did what they did fully knowing the evil of what they were doing. They
have a place for three awardees and they had to go out of their way to
explicitly exclude me."

The newspaper advertisement, which includes an inverted Nobel medal, quote
Damadian's colleagues and several authors of books about MRI technology.

"The reason that we are so disappointed and even angry is because the work was
done here at this institution, at this medical school," said Dr. Eugene
Feigelson, dean of the State University of New York college of medicine on Long
Island, where Damadian is on staff.

"All of the development on MRI -- and by the way this is not in any way meant to
take anything away from Professor Lauterbur and Professor Mansfield -- but all
of MRI rests on the fundamental work that Dr. Damadian has done here," Feigelson
said in a telephone interview.

The Washington Post said in a separate news article on Friday that the
advertisement cost about $80,000. The New York Times ad cost about $122,000,
according to its posted rates.

Damadian received the National Medal of Technology in 1988 from President Ronald
Reagan and he was inducted into the Inventors Hall of Fame in 1989. His first
patent based on his 1970 discovery, was affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court in
1997. - Additional reporting by Maggie Fox in Washington and Patrick
McLoughlin in Stockholm - Welcome!..

**
- Do we see other newspapers? - Here!.. Los Angeles Times
and Thomas H. Maugh II and Charles Piller wrote on
Oct. 11, 2003: Scientist buying ads to protest MRI Nobel... MRI prize is his
by right, he says... In an unusual public protest, a New York scientist placed
full-page ads in at least three major newspapers, claiming he was unfairly
denied the Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine, which was awarded to two other
scientists for the invention of magnetic resonance imaging, or MRI.

The ads, totaling an estimated $290,000 in the New York Times, the Los Angeles
Times and the Washington Post, claimed that the actual inventor of MRI was Dr.
Raymond Damadian, president and founder of Fonar Corp. on Long Island, N.Y.

The Nobel Prize was awarded Monday to Paul Lauterbur of the University of
Illinois and Sir Peter Mansfield of the University of Nottingham in England,
whose contributions to MRI development are widely acknowledged.

The ads, paid for by Fonar, claimed that the Nobel committee was "revising
history" by failing to acknowledge Damadian's role in developing the technology,
which is now extensively used for imaging internal organs for diagnosing
disease.



The ads, which appeared Thursday in the Post and Friday in the other newspapers,
claimed that Damadian made the "breakthrough" that led to MRI and that the Nobel
committee "did one thing it had no right to do: It ignored the truth."

But other scientists believe Damadian's claim is groundless.

"Most of us in the field would clearly think (the Nobel committee) got it right
this time," said Dr. E. James Potchen, a radiologist at Michigan State
University. "It was a wise, conscientious decision."

Lauterbur could not be reached for comment, but his wife said that he preferred
not to discuss Damadian's claims. Mansfield also could not be reached for
comment.



The ad featured an upside down photo of the Nobel medal and was headlined, "A
Shameful Wrong that Must Be Righted."

Up until the 1970s, magnetic resonance, then called nuclear magnetic resonance,
was a tool of chemists to deduce structure of organic molecules.

Damadian, 67, made a key contribution in the field. In 1971, he reported in the
journal Science that the radio signals emitted by cancerous tissue were
different from those emitted by healthy tissues.

Damadian envisioned an MRI scanner that would take pictures of the body's
interior, drew up plans for constructing such a machine and received several
patents. There was only one problem, Bottomley and other experts said: Damadian
was never able to use his idea to produce actual images.

**
- Scientists in the MRI community are not totally surprised by Damadian's
protest. Some said Damadian has always been bold in seeking ...
- You mean? - Not me, Washington Post redacteur... - Show me
it, please!...
- Welcome: In a Funk Over the No-Nobel Prize
Overlooked MRI Pioneer Lobbies Against Decision
By David Montgomery
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, October 10, 2003; Page C01
As the Nobels have been unveiled all week, reporters have been calling up
laureates every day and asking where they were when they heard the news, and how
does it feel to be a winner. But what about the losers? Where were they and how
did it feel?
Raymond Damadian was at his computer at home on Long Island at 5:30 Monday
morning, logging on to the Nobel Foundation Web site. This was the precise
moment when the prize for medicine was to be announced. And there it was: He
immediately saw that the work being honored was magnetic resonance imaging --
MRI -- his field! He knew from colleagues that he had been nominated for the
prize this year, and several previous years.
He checked the names of the winners.
"I went from my computer into my bedroom," Damadian said yesterday. "My wife
said, 'What happened?' I said they gave it to [Paul C.] Lauterbur and [Sir
Peter] Mansfield and they left me out."
How did that moment feel?
A pause.
"Agony," he recalled. "I know the outcome of this is to be written out of
history altogether."
He tuned out the inevitable media reports of Lauterbur and Mansfield savoring
their own personal leaps into history. "It was too much for me to bear."
But unlike most Nobel also-rans, Damadian is not giving up so easily. Yesterday
his MRI manufacturing company on Long Island, Fonar Corp., took out a full-page
ad in The Washington Post headlined "The Shameful Wrong That Must Be Righted."
It quoted scientists saying he was robbed. It quoted textbooks attesting to his
contribution to the now ubiquitous technology -- 60 million MRI exams were given
last year -- that employs high-powered magnets and radio waves to produce images
of soft tissue inside the body that once was invisible to doctors unless they
cut open the patient.
The ad charged that "inexcusable disregard for the truth has led the [Nobel]
committee to make a decision that is simply outrageous," and it provided a
clip-out form for supporters to mail protests directly to the Nobel arbiters in
Stockholm.
Such ads in the Post typically cost just over $80,000, and Damadian said he will
place more in other newspapers.
It's one physician-inventor's campaign to get his name added to the award for
medicine before it is officially presented later this year.
"I know that had I never been born, there would be no MRI today," Damadian said.
Nobel selections often result in jealousy and hurt feelings, but a public
crusade is rare.
"Usually they don't advertise and usually they don't ask everyone to write us,"
said Hans Jornvall, secretary of the 50-member Nobel Assembly at Karolinska
Institutet, which picks the winner in medicine, speaking from Sweden.
He said Nobel officials never comment on Nobel Prize losers.
"To us," he said, "mankind is divided into two groups of people: those who have
got the award and those who have still not got it. . . . The ones who have still
not got it we don't say anything about."
Of those who got it, Lauterbur -- at University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
-- and Mansfield -- at the University of Nottingham -- Jornvall said: "We think
they are excellent laureates."
The Nobel Assembly's statement on the winners said Lauterbur and Mansfield "made
seminal discoveries" that "led to the development of modern magnetic resonance
imaging, MRI, which represents a breakthrough in medical diagnostics and
research."
Scientists in the MRI community are not totally surprised by Damadian's protest.
Some said Damadian has always been bold in seeking recognition and has pined for
a Nobel Prize. But there are varying views in the scientific community about the
proper distribution of credit for developing MRI.
"We are perplexed, disappointed and angry about the incomprehensible exclusion"
of Damadian from the prize, said Eugene Feigelson, dean of the college of
medicine at SUNY Downstate Medical Center, where Damadian did his work related
to MRI. "MRI's entire development rests on the shoulders of Damadian's
discovery. . . . "
Damadian's discovery, beginning with experiments in 1969, was that cancerous and
normal tissue could be distinguished using a precursor technology then known as
nuclear magnetic resonance. In 1977 he developed a scanning machine, called
"Indomitable," now owned by the Smithsonian National Museum of American History
and on loan to an inventors' hall of fame in Ohio.
Working separately in subsequent years, Lauterbur and Mansfield developed more
sophisticated methods to capture images of tissue that were clearer, quicker and
easier to use.
"In my opinion, Paul Lauterbur and Peter Mansfield deserve the Nobel Prize,"
said Alex Pines, an expert in nuclear magnetic resonance at the University of
California at Berkeley. "In a leap of creative genius, they came up with the
gradient imaging methodology that forms the basis for what today is known as
MRI."
Damadian's camp characterizes Lauterbur's and Mansfield's work as technological
refinements of Damadian's central insight, while the Nobel Assembly and other
scientists say Lauterbur's and Mansfield's breakthroughs were "discoveries" in
their own right. The documentation that the assembly used to choose Lauterbur
and Mansfield -- and exclude anyone else -- will remain secret for 50 years,
under Nobel rules, Jornvall said.
Mansfield could not be reached for comment, and Lauterbur said through his wife
that he preferred not to comment on Damadian's claims.
Damadian, 67, grew up in Queens and became a varsity tennis player and an
accomplished violinist before getting a medical degree. When he was a boy, his
grandmother was dying of cancer in the family's home, and her moans kept him
awake at night. Later, as a specialist in internal medicine, he was frustrated
that patients could have cancers that were undetectable -- and, doing research
with mouse tumors and magnets, he hit on his big idea.
He knows his campaign to get a Nobel this year may be a long shot. Once winners
have been announced, the assembly never changes its mind, according to Jornvall.
But Damadian says the battle is bigger than he is. In his view, the Nobel
Assembly has become the great arbiter of who goes down in the annals of medicine
-- yet its judgments are accountable to no one and not subject to appeal.
His campaign is on behalf of all the losers history might forget.
Staff writer Rick Weiss contributed to this report
**
- Christian Monitor issues publishing very sharp critics against the
Scandinavian Zionist lobbies..Christians show solidarity by the side of Damadian
and publishing interesting discussons... - Read us an example,
please? - Did Nobel Committee Ignore MRI Creator Because of
Creationism?, redaction of Christian Today asks.. And headed an article: "The
faith-based initiative hold-up, freedom to worship at home, and other stories
from online sources around the world.",
compiled by Ted Olsen on 10/10/2003: Not everybody on the Nobel Committee loves
Raymond Damadian
While today's Nobel Peace Prize announcement will no doubt reignite discussion
over whether Islam is a religion of peace, and may cause some to ask what
happened to the buzz that Pope John Paul II would win, others are still
discussing the controversy over this year's Nobel Prize in medicine.

The Nobel Committee on Monday announced that the prize would be awarded to Paul
C. Lauterbur and Peter Mansfield, for their discoveries concerning magnetic
resonance imaging, or MRI scans.

But when you ask Google who invented the MRI, the most common answer is Raymond
V. Damadian. What's up? The controversy has been percolating, and The Wall
Street Journal reported last year that "a ferocious battle in the scientific
community over who gets credit" probably held up an MRI-related Nobel for years.

A full-page ad in yesterday's The Washington Post said the Nobel committee was
"attempting to rewrite history" and "did one thing it has no right to do: It
ignored the truth."

Likewise, Damadian told Newsday, "I can't escape the fact that I started it all.
… My concern is the distortion by the Nobel Committee to write me out of the
history of the MRI. Every history book from now on will say the MRI is Lauterbur
and Mansfield."

"I know that had I never been born, there would be no MRI today," he told The
Washington Post.

Many scientists agree, but some suggest that Damadian's self-promotion may have
hurt him. He's "sometimes flamboyant," NPR science correspondent Richard Knox
told All Things Considered yesterday.

But Knox, along with Reason magazine's Ronald Bailey, suggested another reason
Damadian may have been disregarded: He's a devout Christian (see this 1997
profile in Christianity Today sister publication Christian Reader) who believes
in creationism. In fact, he's on the Technical Advisory Board for the Institute
for Creation Research, and on the reference board for Answers in Genesis's
upcoming Creation Museum.

"He's identified by many web sites as a prominent creation scientist," Knox
said. "I have no first-hand knowledge of his beliefs, but it's fair to say that
most scientists are not creationists and tend to look askance at scientists who
believe that way, but it's really impossible to know if the Nobel Committee took
that into account."

Bailey similarly writes, "I have no inside information, but I wonder if the
committee was swayed by the fact that Damadian, although a brilliant inventor,
is apparently a creation science nut. In ironic contrast, Lauterbur's current
research is on the chemical origins of life."

The Nobel Committee, meanwhile, says it doesn't talk about why certain people
don't receive the prizes. It only talks about why winners do.

Watch this space
Lots of links below, but come back this afternoon for even more, along with
fresh news and commentary. It's a busy religion news day, so we couldn't fit it
all in this morning.

**

- What are the students talking on this scandal?
- Very interesting thoughts... Listen to this record, please!..
- This is Shocking...Just Shocking... A doctor is accusing a Nobel Prize
Committee of a "wanton disregard for the truth." Dr. Raymond Damadian took out a
full page ad in both "The New York Times" and "The Washington Post" complaining
he should have shared in the Nobel Prize for Medicine. This year's prize went to
two men for their work on MRI technology. Dr. Damadian says their work was based
on his research and he should have been named an awardee as well. Damadian
discovered in 1970 that differences between cancerous tissue and normal tissue
could be seen using nuclear magnetic resonance, a precursor to MRI technology.
The secretary of the Nobel Assembly believes the award is correct, and says
Nobel prizes can't be appealed.
You mean the same group that has given a Nobel Peace Prize to Yasser Arafat. The
same group that gave extra points for a peace prize to Pope John Paul II only
after he came out against the war in Iraq? I'm shocked that these people would
have a wonton disregard for the truth. That couldn't happen, could it? -
Damn Nobel hypocrisy!..

**

- Read the petitions examples, too.. Not only today's!.. Begin with 80s, 90s,
look at this headline, for example; "evolution-based humanistic education
system"... - Who demands such dangerous matters in "our US"? -
Guess!..

**
- There are Scientists and the Newsmakers on the Scientical issues.. It's not
the same matter..
- Okay!.. What is the comments of Science-news-makers front?
- I read the news on 9 october 2003; one of the biggest monitor reports:
Damadian gets upset about the Nobel... As I predicted the other day, it didn't
take long for Raymond Damadian to get very upset about not being awarded the
Nobel Prize.

Today's Washington Post had a full-page advertisement claiming Damadian should
have been awarded the prize and included a cut-out form to send to the Nobel
committee.

I don't think the advertisement really helped his case. Presumably it is not a
good idea to try to influence the austere, traditional and serious Nobel
committee by proclaiming loudly that they screwed up in a major way.

"You suck! Now honour me!" is rarely an effective strategy.

And yet, there are many Damadian supporters out there. Some of them were quoted
in the newspaper advertisement. However, I have been speaking with many
scientists about this over the past few days and the matter is definitely not as
simple as Damadian claims. Perhaps it will be impossible to ever get to the
bottom of this, but we can be pretty sure that the Nobel committee tried it's
best to do so. (We'll find out in 2053 when the files become public.)

A few people rose up to defend Damadian in the comments of my post below and I
reprint one of them and my response here.

From comments to my post:


"Damadian had some ideas that were interesting but wrong, ..."
Hello? Damadian made the only actual "discovery" in among Lauterbur, Mansfield
and himself. NMR and T1/T2 lay in the hands of physicists and chemists for 40
years and no one ever even remotely thought of using this for medical purposes.
Until Damadian, as an MD and scientist, discovered that T1/T2 are different for
different tissues and that cancerous tissue emits different signals than healthy
tissue of the same organ. He got ridiculed alot for suggesting a whole body
scanner. Scientists with physics and chemistry background asked him how fast he
intends to spin his patients (alluding to the dato common technique for NMR
signal measurement). THIS discovery of T1/T2 in tissue is what the Nobel prize
should have gone to. Alfred Nobel explicitly required that the Nobel prize in
Medicine go to a discovery! The prize for physics can go to a discovery or
invention, in Chemistry for a discovery or a process ...

Moreover, Damadian clearly set the vision by patenting a decive for detecting
cancer. Taking the signals and drawing them on a piece of paper (and doing it
quickly and efficiently) was Lauterbur's achievement. Yet, as Damadian once
said, if he hadn't been, would we have MRI today? He (and I concur) doesn't
think so. If Lauterbur hadn't been, he would have gotten there himself.
Eventually.

Not to belittle the importance of Lauterbur's contribution, but after crediting
Damadian in his personal notebook on the day of his great idea, he failed to
ever credit Damadian in his publications and thus, he has commited the worst
scientific crime - that of plagiarism.

MCR • 10/9/03; 10:07:41 AM


My response:


"Hello? Damadian made the only actual "discovery" in among Lauterbur, Mansfield
and himself."
That is clearly an incorrect statement, regardless of what you think Damadian's
role is. Nobody is arguing that Lauterbur and Mansfield weren't deserving of the
Nobel (except perhaps you). The question is what is Damadian's role in all of
this.

"Until Damadian, as an MD and scientist, discovered that T1/T2 are different for
different tissues and that cancerous tissue emits different signals than healthy
tissue of the same organ."

Damadian did in fact publish a paper that said that T1/T2 are different for
healthy and cancerous tissues. However, that turned out to be wrong. Nobody was
able to replicate the work and the conclusion was based on a small data set that
had poor statistical resolution. It is now well accepted that the claim in his
paper was incorrect. That is not to say it was a bad paper - just that the claim
didn't hold up. That's why scientists retest discoveries. There's nothing bad
about publishing something wrong. Claiming that it was correct in the light of
further evidence is not a good thing, however.

Part of the reason that he had such poor statistics was that his technique only
allowed for a point-by-point analysis of the sample. This was so time-consuming
and difficult that not much data could be collected. It also made the techique,
even if it really did show something, unsuitable for scanning any significant
quantity of tissue.

So the claim that Damadian's discovery that T1/T2 are different for cancerous
and non-cancerous tissues was wrong. Tell me again why a wrong claim is
deserving of a Nobel prize? If you want to argue that Damadian deserves the
prize, you'll need to come up with a different argument.

It sounds like you're quoting ideas from Damadian's full page advertisement in
today's Washington Post rather than coming up with something solid or
independent. If you have more information, then I'd love to hear it.

The reason why MRI can detect cancers is because of the boundaries that exist
between healthy and cancerous tissue showing up - but that requires the spatial
resolution of the tissue - exactly what Lauterbur figured out. He discovered how
to get spatial data by setting up the magnetic fields with appropriate
gradients.

Mansfield's contribution is without question - he worked out what needed to be
done to deconvolve the data obtained in two-dimensional scanning. It's an idea
that somebody else would have had even if he hadn't but he did figure that out
first.

Resolving this issue comes down to whether or not you think a Nobel should be
awarded to somebody who has a general idea or to the person who actually figures
out how the idea really works. This is related to the idea of "concept patents".
Interestingly, Damadian only won his lawsuit for patent infringement because the
laws at the time allowed him to claim priority using a "concept patent". The law
has changed and if he were to embark on that lawsuit today, it appears he would
have lost.

It's pretty clear to the people who were around at the time that Lauterbur
really did figure out the details. Sure Damadian had a conceptual idea that was
good even if it took him in the wrong direction. But if Nobels were awarded to
the people who had the conceptual idea, then a significant number of Nobels
should have gone to different people - often people who didn't understand the
problem as well as those who figured out the details and were actually awarded
the prizes.

**

- I read the appeals of Damadian and found parallel points with Mel Gibson
case... - Explain please.. - They are working on different areas,
both they are very close on the principles to be independent and cused anger by
AIPAC. - I know many attitudes by Damadian and understand that this
Armenian Scientist made red-hot by such lobbies... But how caused a film
producer to be fallen similarly position and... - Well, Gibson refuseed
sponsring the lobbies and didn't change screen-play, too... Movie star Mel
Gibson's controversial $25 million film about Jesus has sparked a new battle —
among Jews. For months, Gibson's "The Passion" has spurred headlines from the
Los Angeles Times to The New York Times, from Fox News to The New Yorker, for
its reportedly graphic portrayal of the last days of Jesus and its laying heavy
blame for his death on the Jews. Much of the media coverage has focused on the
conflict between Gibson, who belongs to a traditionalist Catholic sect opposed
to Vatican reforms in general, and some Jewish figures who warn the film will
stir anti-Semitism by splicing together the most anti-Jewish portions of the New
Testament gospels with extra-biblical writings of mystics who blamed all Jews
for the crucifixion. - Okay!... I undersatdn, if Nobel prize should be
shared on cinema, so we should witness two guys side by side; MRI creator and
Independent Film producer.. - So you can interprete my minds... -
Excuse me Sir; I wonder why the muslims shared Nobel prize.. - You mean
Mammele Ebadi? - Not only this woman!.. Remember, last year won not
single one woman, all the winner were the men, because last year were the big
occupations, big invasions on the big countries like Balkan, Chechenia,
Afghanistan, Iraq and all these investments need "secon hand" propaganda
instruments; it's ongoin Cold War and it's the work of "guys".. The "hot-war"
is the work of guys, not the Selma Lagerlös doggies, nor Mammele Ebadi... -
And now? - Now we succeed on many areas worldwide and now we aim to
destruct Iran, North Korea... Therefore I brought Damadian's before speechs and
petitions.. Read other pages, too; please.. So we can compare it better..
Compare with the nobel winner muslim guys and Damadian!... Damadian looks like
more muslim when you see the true face of the fake muslims, charlatan
satellites... - I see.. If Damadian could be muslim scientist, so we
should witness much more cruel results... - Don't mind Nobel prize;
compare his before appeals and Ahmed Rami's appeals.. Here!.. Read all these
collected examples... - Wow!.. Damadian was been "black-listed" just
before Nobel scandals.. - He was been registrated and pursued by the lobbbies
but Nobel fraud been last one drop so Damadian awakened... - When I
read all these elderly appeals and pettions so I afraid Damadian should handled
like a "psyco", what the many intellectuals processed...
- I am thinking different.. I f Damadian never signed such actions, perhaps he
could get a chance... But not so stronger chance.. It's not enough to be fake
muslim, too... - What more? - It's not enough to be first at all
the first on science or litterature... Oif Adalian should be pedophile, maybe
sould bigger chance as awarded by Nobel homos chorus...
- There are many awarded people, even their relatives can't remember if they
really the scientists or charlatans...
- Like Selma Lagerlös, she never wrote poem but on the Nobel-list she calls
"poet", instead of thif, copied folk-saga wealth of oppressed Scandinavians...
- Drug was free in Sweden, but ut's ot so liberal market nowadays... I
understand.. - If you corrupt an authority, it's crime and you find yourself
in the prison. But when you build a foundation and buy the brains of selected
persons under label "prize", so it will be legalized issue; most lefgalized
corrupt labeled "Nobel"... Therefore they use both imported figures by the side
of our bastard arrangers, like Uffe Ekman... - Who is that girl? -
Man, holy liar Ulf Ekman.. Read their own pages, please; you understand such
Svekish words; here is a wonderful description on this instrument: Pastor och
judisk bastard; "Godfader of Holy falsification" för härvan Livets Ord . Han är
en av de fanatiska Zionist Mafia-vänner, har bl.a. skrivet boken "Judarna -
Framtidens folk", där han visar hur det är vår plikt som icke-judar att slava
för det judiska folket - till sin hjälp för att förklara detta citerar Ekman
bibelcitat från den judiska bibeln - Torahn. Typisk religiös kollaboratör
fascist i branschen av kristen-Nazi-Zionist triangel.
Förenade Israelinsamlingen - Keren Hayesod: En mäktig judisk organisation, med
global täckning och lokalavdelningar över hela världen. Arbetar med att samla in
pengar till den s k Zionist military Mafia USrael genom pengainsamlingar och
donationer från förmögna judar i "diasporan". Den svenska lokalavdelningen har
en egen tidning som heter "Menorah". Goj: (goy, pluralis. gojim el. goyim)
Nedlåtande judisk beteckning på icke-judar. Synonymt med
"boskap", "kreatur" enligt dem, den form av fascist syn relaterat med judiska
uttrycket "Shabbaz Goj".
- This an enormous double moral machine, it stinks much more in last time...
Machine has two sides; a side of these lobbies discrimate persons and recruits
only the selected loyal members in false democracy areas and second one side of
the troops going to eliminate people on the occupied areas... A soft side and a
bloody backside of an enorms process...
- Look at the AMS, for example it worjks like a kind of mniature model of Nobel
committees; here the persons get first true jobs, who licks the ass of zionist
chiefs.. Meantime these authorities discriminate the honoured intellectuals... I
met well-known examples, jobless academicians too.. There are many persons much
more talented than COETZEEE and Mammele EBADI, there are much more Humanist
Jurists, Humanist Poems, Writers who are the victims of satellite regimes..
These pursued heroes really show engagement on many areas but these pursued
persons are still under heavy persecution process... I met the true heroes of
human rights, been jobless because they never collaborated with the judaized
Imperilaism.. I know many living examples, sice 15 years going jobless... Many
of them used in the laboratories, many of them are not aware...
- Many of them above listed offices and leagues, too.. They have been used as
animals in the laboratories, but they don't aware on such process..
- You mean the false "Jobbcentrum Vårberg"?.. - Such ridiculous process
centres of hypocrisy system... - I understand!.. All these registrated
intellectuals handled more cruel than non-talented immigrants...Because,
imperialism afraid of the brains at work nor the "living creatures"...
- Sweden has at least an half million registrated jobless... Massdiscrimination,
human and no single one "jobseeker Jew"... Like a kind of dynasty...
- Many pursued persons get no single one true cnace in work lihe... All life
long!.. This is a crime!...
- Discrimination is a crime, true!..
- Discrimination and persecution are the exercution of liberal capitalist
barbarity!...
- Satellites living in an ocean of double standards... They give Nobel prize to
the lapdogs and meantime don't see the reality in their own backstage..
- Are we, ordinary people are all together the animals?
- According to Jewish dogmatism; yes!... A kind of "Animaniacs", what the boss
of Swedish cultur-market describes...... If you accept that Jews are first class
human and you are animal, serious; so you can take permanent chance for recruits
in the liberalized work world...
- Now I understand better, why any selected immigrants take always chance to be
personnel in Scandinavia!..
- This is a chain!..
- Dirty and bloody chain, but you must use label "culture"!.. This is the
validity in this community which rules under Zionist domination... - What
I learned here, you know? - What? - Ahmed RAMI should be
stronger candidate to NOBEL prize, if he should be traitor like these false
Cubanos, Persian whores or traitor Kurds, pedophilia criminals by neo-liberal
fascist leagues of Folkpartiet... - Dr. Raymond Damadian should
absolutely nominated to Nobel prize if he was one of the Swedish pedophile
doctors.. You know, most wanted pedophile doctors exposed in other countries but
they released in Sweden when the authorities marked their lobby relations...
This system prizes such instruments, not the true independent scientists... -
Sir, you describe what we think!.. - You don't need to be genie to guess
that the "butcher" sharks living in same ocean between the hippocampus and
delphinus... - Poem? - Tolkning af J. M. "Jabotinsky Male
whore" COETZEE!.. He won Nobel prize, too... - ?!
**
- I didn't hear Damadaian before I visited Tel Aviv... - First
in Usrael you met with Damadian? - No!.. Not with him, but his enemies...
A rabbin showed this article to me, when who knew I am a doctor from US...
- Show it me, please!.. - Welcome!.. Read these lines, please; "He
believes that rejection of God's account of Creation as the foundation for our
society is basic to the spiritual, social and economic sickness of our times. We
are replaying 'the seven steps of human regression and social disintegration'
which the Apostle Paul described in Romans chapter 1 as happening subsequent to
the rejection of the true God as Creator." and he continues talking on the
sickness of capitalist society... - Who is he, a priest? - Not
a priest, he was Dr. Damadian.. - Oh, what!.. Give me this broshure
please.. Big surprise.. Is it the same person? - Same Dr. who dismissed by the
Nobel committees.. - What said Rabin in Tel Aviv?.. - We must be
awakened and dismiss such "goy-guys" everywhere... - ?!
**
- Why the Zionist lobbies invest for manipulative culture activities? - One
aspect of the centuries-old, and present-day, operations of the Zionists is the
undermining and ruining of the culture of other nations, the disintegration of
their distinctive national features and of their national unity. A related
aspect is their activities directed against the culture of all mankind, against
classical, harmonizing art of all kinds. Destruction, dissonance,
abstractionism, surrealism and other nastinesses are elevated into a principle.
This is then declared to be the last word in culture; those who do not accept it
are defamed as being retrogrades, as not understanding modern art, and so forth.
The consciousness and psychology of the masses are ruined. This applies both to
any particular nation, and to all mankind. The nature of the "cultural
activities" of the Zionists lies in depriving all the Gentile nations of their
particular national roots, as well of their roots in a general human sense. That
is the nature of the Zionists' so-called cosmopolitanism. The current decline of
culture and art in Russia is very directly related to the ruinous work of
Zionism, and is the direct work of Zionism's hands. In large matters as in
small, Zionists are everywhere taking control of the organs of administration of
culture, art, education and science, and are performing relevant work in a
manner suitable to Zionism. Specifically, the art of a nation, and the roots of
a nation's soul, are being perverted, vulgarized and coarsened. This is done
shamelessly and effectively. They take their activities to the stage where a
Russian, for example, (and unfortunately this is no rarity) will say: "I can't
stand Russian songs!" The point is that he has been and still is being served a
specially prepared surrogate. The songs which are passed off as the songs of a
nation frequently bear no relation to the true art of that nation. They are
either minor pieces of work, or imitations, or things which have been specially
corrupted and perverted. Moreover, man has for a long time been sustainedly torn
away from his national roots. He is to a large extent already denationalized and
will consequently better absorb that substitute for culture which is of benefit
to Zion because it works on people in the spirit which Zion desires.
**
- Nobel prize is the bigger process by all of such cultural weapons...
- A strong advocate of Zionism, Gerald Kaufmann, heads the panel of judges for
the Booker Prize. Other members of the panel are John Sutherland, Natasha
Walter, Shena Mckay and Boyd Tonking. There were several factors other than
literary excellence that influenced the selection for the prize wrote Paul
Bailey, a noted literary critic, recently. He cited the examples of Salman
Rushdie and Vikram Seth who, despite their lack of literary talent, were awarded
the prize earlier.
- Unfortunately... The year of 2003 prize was awarded to the South African
writer, J.M Coetzee. The Egyptian writer Ahdaf Soueif was the most deserving
among the final list of the writers. The judges considered her novel, 'The Map
of Love', a rare piece of literary excellence, according to Bailey. Yet she was
denied the prize. Analyzing the reasons for her disqualification, Prof.
Sutherland considers that her hostile sentiments toward the Zionist movement
could have prompted Kaufmann to adopt a unfavorable stand against her.
Kaufmann's past as a zealous Jewish activist underpins this suspicion. He was
born and brought up among Jewish zealots. After completing his education at
Leeds, he entered politics. He was elected a Labor MP in 1970. Prime Minister
Harold Wilson, noted for his Zionist tilt, included him among his confidants.
Spotting his talent combined with his
dedication to the Zionist movement, Wilson allowed Kaufmann to prepare his
speeches on special occasions. During the Six-Day War, Kaufmann carried secret
letters between the Prime Minister's office and Israel's ambassador Aharon
Remez. This act, in fact, amounted to espionage and treason against Britain.
Kaufmann's memoirs also shed light on the biased British stand toward Israel in
1967 war. Kaufmann criticized the neutral stand taken by Edward Heath's
Conservative government in the 1973 Middle East war. He also expressed his
displeasure over the government's ban on the sale of weapons to Israel,
considering it the aggressor. The then Conservative government also denied
American planes carrying weapons to Israel permission to land or refuel in
British airports. Kaufmann also accused Foreign Secretary Sir Alec Douglas Home
of anti-Semitism because of his bold stand in the General Assembly on this
issue. Later Kaufmann paid a visit to Israel in order to express his sympathy
and apology for the matter. Menahem Begin, the veteran terrorist leader, wanted
to meet Kaufmann in particular and express his personal gratitude to Kaufmann
for the services offered by him to Israel, Kaufmann's 'true motherland,' by
committing treason against Britain, his native country. On Kaufmann's becoming
the shadow foreign secretary for Labor in 1987, the Arabs expressed their deep
concern over the matter. He did not want to lose his post
because of the displeasure of the Arabs. Therefore Kaufmann began to appear as a
supporter of Palestinian self-determination. His attitude toward the Zionist
movement, however, did not undergo any change. He called Zionism a movement for
cultural liberation.
The fact that Salman Rushdie got the prize because of his venomous attack on
Islam and Ahdaf Soueif was denied it because of her Arab identity makes one
wonder whether a writer's attitude toward Islam and Arabs is the decisive factor
in winning the Booker Prize
**
- I understand, such kinky system gave prizes to its own doggies, nothing
else... - It's true!.. And then this Jewish provocator propagandist lapdog
"Jabotinsky Nut" COETZEE won (!!!) NOBEL prize 2003. - Well, it's not
only to the fake literature of an zion "gentle fascist" bastard; frankly it's an
extra prize to the South African mobilize assassination leagues who joined to
realize "well-planned cleansing" Olof PALME, too... - Like a kinky film
clip, a scenario on the Hypo-Culture Crisis of the zion infected Western shurk
intellectuality. - It realized at the least!.. This is the "schutzpach", Jewish
freakness...
**
- We have a surprize guest in tv studio... Welcome, Sir!.. Ronald Bailey..
Welcome.. What is you comment on this affair?
- Nobel Misfire?
- That is right!...
- Raymond Damadian gets snubbed
- Okay!.. What is the reason?
- Well; modern inventions usually have many parents. Thus Nobel Prizes in recent
years have generally been won by several discoverers at a time. For example, the
Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine was awarded earlier this week to Paul
Lauterbur and Peter Mansfield for discovering magnetic resonance imaging (MRI).

Today there are 22,000 MRI machines worldwide and some 60 million patients
annually benefit from this noninvasive diagnostic technique that can identify
tumors and the damage caused by heart attacks and strokes. Lauterbur and
Mansfield made absolutely crucial contributions to the development of practical
MRIs. Congratulations are certainly warranted, but there is a oddity about the
award.

Did the Nobel committee overlook the first inventor of MRI? I bring this
question up because I had thought that the idea that MRI could be used to image
living tissue was first conceived by American physician Raymond Damadian. I
formed this impression when, back in the mid-1980s I reviewed A Machine Called
Indomitable by New York Times reporter Sonny Kleinfield, which was the story of
how Damadian created the first MRI machine. A cursory Google search fairly
clearly identifies Damadian as the first inventor of MRI scanning. In fact,
Damadian's first MRI machine, Indomitable, is displayed at the National
Inventors Hall of Fame in Akron, Ohio, on loan from the Smithsonian's National
Museum of American History.

Damadian supporters are running a full page ad in today's Washington Post urging
people to contact the Nobel committee to "express their outrage" at excluding
Damadian. Why did the committee not cite Damadian's work when it awarded this
prize? I have no inside information, but I wonder if the committee was swayed by
the fact that Damadian, although a brilliant inventor, is apparently a creation
science nut. In ironic contrast, Lauterbur's current research is on the chemical
origins of life.
- Ronald Bailey is Reason's science correspondent. Thak you, Sir!.. And other
one of the guests, please!..
**
- The medial shurks try to show him as a dare... - Whom?
- Scientst!.. Physician launches public protest over medical Nobel, but there
are many columnists, for example Cordelia Edvardson, Anita Goldman, Per Ahlin
and many other little amatuer Jews, try to show Damadian as crazy... -
TradiZionally!.. The crowds need chirpy for earn much more by their owners...

**

- Is Damadian a believed person? - I think so.. He has been registrated
by the Church.. - Evangelian? - Unfortunately, no.. Ortodox...
- Ortodox Jew? - No!.. He is Armenian... - Three points as
minus from me!.. - ?! **
- It's all folks.. You listened to the secret discussion records.. But tv
redaction exposed scenes of this kinky play... - I watced al the
scenes.. But my dear friends, don't believe in them... - To whom we should
believe... - There is only one truth, not double...
- You mean, they don't know the true reason... - Nobody knows...
- But you are working there and you are not such ordinary "body"... - Heh..
heeeh!... Sven you smells foxy... - What is the true reason, Sir!... I
know all these persons, who discussed and we listened here in studio..
- I respect them, beause they are the exeperts.. They are the scientists.. But
it is not enough always to know the tuth... - Right.. I agree with
you.. .They are not the friends to King Carl Gustav nor Bonnier&Wallenberg
charlatans.. These all above are the respectful scientists, all together...
- Of course!..If I should be only one in the Nobel committe, absolutely I
couldn't choose anyone of them... Maybe we should choose all together of them,
scientists... But one of them had wrong... - Did the true scientis a
wrong? - Not directly.. How can I explain, we should choose the true
first one... - This one who accuse the Nobel committee? - Yes, he!.. We
searched by the lobbies and couldn't find a relation... - What kind of
relation? - This crazy Dalmatian... - Mr. Damadian, not from
Dalmatia... - Okay, Sir!.. Your guy never was been a member by the
lobbies, our lobbies.. He never supported our foundations, never joined our
activities.. And when we occupied Iraq, he didn't accept to spread our
propaganda material on his responsible areas, authorities, assistance groups..
He was so independent... - Is it wrong to be independent scientist? Is
it wrong to be honorable and reject to lick the ass of your zionist capitalt
boss? - No!.. It's not wrong but we can never pay one single point to
such rebels... Anyway we did wrong... - What is the committe's wrong,
Sir? - We thought that independent scientists are mostly alone and
accepts like a kind of dare in the society because of their exantric
attitudes... It's our only one wrong, we missed to create a hobby to this guy...
- Hobby? - Problem.. So he never could set whole page announcements
on the international newspapers worldwide...
- I am afraid of you, Sir!...
- You are second oine in this week, who says same thing... - Who was the
first one?... - My general of armee, when I was soldier there and we
occiped the southern Lubnania; he is the first; Ariel Sharon...
- ?!

**
- And a bite of imagination around the MRI, Magnetic Resonance Imaging... -
At last, we would like explain How does MRI scanning work? - Yes!.. We are
listen to you.... - Nuclear magnetic resonance is the fundamental
principle exploited by MRI scanners. The nucleus of an atom can behave like a
tiny magnet since its protons are electrically charged and spinning, and the
neutron also has a magnetic field. The only nuclei that lack magnetic fields are
those with even numbers of both protons and neutrons, because the particles pair
off and cancel out each others' field. The atomic nucleus spins on its axis.
When the body with its atoms is placed in the magnet of an MRI machine the axes
of spin in atomic nuclei line up with the direction of the magnetic field, which
has a lower energy than aligning against the field. Radiation of the right
frequency can be absorbed and cause the nuclei to switch from the lower energy
state to a higher one. A radio coil wrapped around the body injects radio waves
and the body's atomic nuclei 'answer back' with a radio signal. The radio waves
produce the signal by causing the nuclei to flip back and forth from their
orientation with the field to their orientation against it.
The hard part is to design a machine to 'read' the differing signals from
differing tissues in the body (which have different 'proton densities'-for
example more or less water content) and translate this into a clearly defined
image.
If you have ever had to have one of these scans, you would have been asked first
to make sure you had not metal objects on you. The magnetic pulse is so strong
that metal objects would literally fly across the room if close to the machine.
- After all these scientical finess Dr.Damadian caused enormous angry by the
fanatical religious authorities... - What is the connex with religion
and MRI? You said that Damadian is a believer, typical Orthodox Armenian, or?
- But he slams the Talmudic fanatics.. At first in 1994 Damadian published a
kind of declaration and accused the dogmatical fanatics...Read these broshures,
please!.. - I remember better now!.. "Scientist Slams Society's Spiritual
Sickness!".. This Damadian is.. - Yes, same person!.. - If
I could be member by the Nobel commissions, I would absolutely reject his name,
if he been candidated... - ?!
**
- What is the response of the "comment producer dolls" of Scandinavian zionist press?
- As usually, they continue to threat the Independent Scientists and solidarity movements...
- Have you any concrete example, to show the tv guests?
- Here, this is DN, Scandinavians most dominated "brain washing" machine..
- Let's watch and read it!..
JUDISKA PROPAGAND-PRESS exempelvis DN-SWEDISH (?) SLÅR MOT TILLBAKA och PROVOCERAR ATT STARTA MTATTACK, varnar att DAMADIAN SJÄLV RISKERAR ATT FÄLLAS:

DN-Jewish Newspaper/Bonniers files: Publicerad 21 oktober 2003

Uppfinnare kan bli stämd för protest

I en helsidesannons i gårdagens DN protesterade uppfinnaren Raymond Damadian mot att han inte fick något Nobelpris i medicin i år. Annonsen kommer inte att ge honom någon medalj. Däremot riskerar han att bli stämd av Nobelstiftelsen.



Uppfinnaren Raymond Damadian känner sig snuvad på Nobelpriset och protesterade i en annons i DN på måndagen. Nu riskerar han att bli stämd av Nobelstiftelsen.



Annonsen i måndagens DN.
Förstora bilden


Nobel 2003


Fredspriset
• Fredspristagare hyllas av landsmän

• "När jag slog på radion hörde jag mitt namn"

• Iransk advokat får Nobels fredspris


Fakta
• Nobelprisen


Kemipriset
• Två amerikaner delar kemipriset


Ekonomipriset
• Statistiska metoder från 80-talet tog priset


Fysikpriset
• Tre delar Nobelpriset i fysik


Medicinpriset
• Forskare bakom magnetkameran fick medicinpris


Litteraturpriset
• J M Coetzee fick årets litteraturpris


Externa länkar
• Nobelstiftelsen

• Svenska Akademien

• Nobelförsamlingen vid Karolinska Institutet

• Kungliga Vetenskapsakademien

• Sveriges Riksbank




- Nobelkomittén är kriminell! Den har raserat mitt rykte genom att förfalska historien, säger Raymond Damadian, uppfinnare och vd för företaget Fonar i den amerikanska delstaten New York.

Hans röst närmar sig falsett i telefon. Han har drivit en kampanj ända sedan Karolinska institutets Nobelförsamling utsåg årets medicinpristagare den 6 oktober i år. Redan samma vecka protesterade han i helsidesannonser i tidningarna Washington Post, New York Times och Los Angeles Times. I går var samma annons införd på bästa annonsplats i Dagens Nyheter, vilket kostar minst en kvarts miljon kronor. Raymond Damadian är med andra ord riktigt arg.

Hans ilska beror på att den amerikanske kemisten Paul Lauterbur och den brittiske fysikern Peter Mansfield får dela på årets medicinpris för vetenskapen bekom magnetkameran. Raymond Damadian får ingen del av äran - vilket är extra bittert med tanke på att reglerna tillåter att upp till tre forskare delar på medicinpriset.

Raymond Damadian radar upp sina egna insatser i gårdagens annons. Hans företag tillverkar magnetkameror av den sort som uppmärksammades med årets medicinpris.

År 1971 beskrev Damadian en metod för att mäta skillnaden mellan en cancertumör och frisk vävnad med så kallad kärnmagnetisk resonans. Året därpå sökte han patent på metoden.

Han kunde inte ta bilder av vävnader i den levande kroppen, bara göra mätningar i provrör. Men metoden väckte stor uppmärksamhet i den medicinska världen.

- Jag tycker att han borde ha fått en del av priset, säger Anders Hemmingsson, pensionerad radiologiprofessor vid Uppsala universitet, och en av magnetkamerans pionjärer i Sverige.

Kemister och fysiker med erfarenhet av kärnmagnetisk resonans var inte lika imponerade.

- Raymond Damadian ska absolut inte ha något pris. Mycket av det han gjorde var rent blaj, säger Peter Stilbs, professor i fysikalisk kemi vid Tekniska högskolan i Stockholm.

Samma uppfattning framkommer i boken "Abusing Cancer Science" från 1987 av biokemisten Donald Hollis. Hollis upptäckte att det var omöjligt att upprepa några av de mätningar som enligt Damadian skulle tala om hur farlig en viss tumör var.

- Det var bara medicinarna som köpte Damadians idéer rakt av, inte kemister och fysiker, säger Peter Stilbs.

Raymond Damadian fnyser bort kritiken. Han fnyser bort hela Nobelstiftelsen. I sina annonser har han satt dit en uppochnervänd bild av Nobelmedaljen med Alfred Nobels ansikte i relief.

- Det gjorde jag för att hela den här saken är uppochnervänd, säger Raymond Damadian.

Men så får man inte göra. Medaljen är varumärkesskyddad av Nobelstiftelsen.

- Jag bedömer att Nobelstiftelsen skulle vinna om det blev en rättegång om saken, säger Ulf Bernitz, juridikprofessor och varumärkesexpert vid Stockholms universitet.

Nobelstiftelsens vd Michael Sohlman vill inte avslöja något om sina eventuella planer på att stämma bråkmakaren. Däremot ger han ett glasklart besked om att Raymond Damadian inte kommer att få någon medalj i år, trots alla protester.

Raymond Damadian hoppas för sin del att han blir stämd.

- Då skulle stiftelsens smutsiga hantering få ännu mer uppmärksamhet, säger han.

....written Per Snaprud/staff (propagand-instrument-lapdog) by its owner Jew Bonnier-clan-press


**

- I understand many intellectuls struggle against the zkionist imperialism; for
example Ahmed Rami, Social Scientist... But Damadian is a doctor and not
politician who create danger against system... - Just a minute, Sir!..
Do yoiu show me one single line from Ahmed Rami books, that he would "demolish
White House" or such appeal? - No!.. Rami and other social scientists
mostly using the facts and phlisophical methodes, not "direct antiglobal
actions" or "Reclaim the Street" shows... - You see!.. But I show here an
elderly declaration that a simply evidence, Dr. Damadian aims demolish White
House... - Show me this broshure, I wish read it!.. "Dr Damadian says
that 'if America is to be rescued, she must be rescued from the pulpit—it is too
late for the White House'. He says that Americans need to realize that any
country 'runs off its spiritual batteries, not off its bank accounts, and when
those batteries are drained, its bank accounts will be empty.'
- Wow!..
- I thought...
- I understand...
- There are differencies.. Sytem need very good scientists that serving very
good, system don't need very good brains that judge the system.. Other things
are only simply details according to the rulers, your name is Mohammad
Al-DURRA, Hannes WESTBERG or Carlo GIULIANI in the street.. It's important where
your name been registrated... - Where!... - I can't talk anymore..
Tomorrow I must be in Synagogue!.. - Achtung!.. - ?!

***
___________________________________________________________________________

Today's most visited recommended links:
AAARGH: http://aaargh.vho.org/
Abunimah org.. http://www.Abunimah.org/
ADC, Anti-Discrimination Committee: http://www.ADC.org/

Adelaide Institute:
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ADL (American Defence League) Solidarity with Yugoslavian People:
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Criminals) Watch:
http://www.zpub.com/notes/adl2.html

ADDAMEER, Human Rights against Torture:
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Liberation Organisation (ALO, Revolutionary Marxist-Maoist Organisation of
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Ahram Org.:
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AIC: http://www.alternativenews.org/
Al Aqsa INTIFADA:
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Al Awda Britannia, the Palestinian Right to Return:
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Al Ayyam org.:
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http://www.al-ayyam.com/guestbook/addnewguest.asp

Alexinac; Yugoslavians massacred by the Zionist military mafia's toy NATO:
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Al Fatah Liberation Organization Victoria Siempre!
http://www.fateh.net/#[
http://www.fateh.net/e_editor/02/road_map.htm

Al Haq/Law org. affiliate I.C.J., International Commission of Jurists, Geneva:
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Al Qudüs University.:
http://www.AlQuds.edu/
http://www.alquds.edu/visitor_info.asp

Alternative Info org.:
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http://w1.858.telia.com/~u85819409/altinfo/boylefolkr.htm

AlternativeMedia:
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Americans Against Bombing
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http://www.againstbombing.org/comments.htm

Americans Against World Empire:
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American state terrorism:
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Amin org.: http://www.amin.org/ Amirah/Ethnic
Cleansing:
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http://www.geocities.com/amirah_palestine/Our_Children.html

Amnesty International: http://www.amnesty.org/news/1996/51504996.htm
http://users3.cgiforme.com/amnesty/cfmboard.html
Anna LINDH, Abraham LINCOLN, KENNEDY&KENNEDY, PALME, FORTYN
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Anti-Fascist Duisburg gegen den zionistischen Imperialismus:
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Anti-imperialist:
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http://pub26.bravenet.com/forum/show.php?usernum=2154786270
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AntiKrisGroup Initiative supports Palestine&Laponia against Zionist Imperialism:
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Antiracist Network:
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Anti-War: http://www.antiwar.com/

Anti-Zionist Laponian revolution supported by Mugu Liberation Movement of
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Anti-Zionist Magazine Challenge: http://www.hanitzotz.com/challenge/
Anti-Zionist Revolutionary Kurdistan:
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http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1074/israel.html
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1074/israel.htm
Webmaster Comrade Roni INAN's e-post: Inan@tdc.dircon.co.uk,
IntPEN@dircon.co.uk Apartheid in Fact: (Pissed off by the Jewish
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Apartheid should be banned worldwide:
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Arab Human Rights: http://www.Arabhra.org/index.htm
Arthur R. BUTZ informs about Jewish Fascism:
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http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~abutz/dnews/ Artists&Christian
Academians against Racism:
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Associazione Revisionismo Storico:
http://members.tripod.com/~revisionismo/

Assyrian Freedom online&Assyrians against Jewish Fascism::
http://www.mathaba.net/www/palestine/
http://www.b2g2.com/boards/board.cgi?user=mathaba

Australian Anti-Zionist News by Cassopaea:
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http://www.aztlan.net/ BADIL (Resource Center for
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http://www.badil.org/e-index.html
BarnesReview against the Jewish fabrication industry:
http://www.barnesreview.org/ BBC Documentary Center/ (
with special thanks to the staff of Panorama Archive-BBC)
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmaedia/12380000/video/_13813228_sharon_v.ram (Pissed
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reponsible jurists, corrupted chiefs etc. E-post: newsonline@bbc.co.uk,
bbcprime@bbc.com.uk, Bergen-Belsen Jobbcentrum Independent
Initiative against Zionist Imperialism: http://www.palkom.com/bilder.htm
Belgian MotherEarth Activists against the judaized fascist dominance on the
World: http://www.motherearth.org/nowar/en/home_en.php
Beware Holy places from the ZOG, zioni occupational gang,:
http://www.hlt-palestine.org/ Beyond the fake propaganda
of the Zionist Media: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/
Bob HANSSON&BURMAN&Musicians against the judaized "Big Brother" Imperialism:
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Bolletino di informazione antimperialista: http://www.bollettino.it/

Books and useful information against Jewish Brain Washing process:
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http://www.boycottbush.net/

Brain-Washing/Kinderbücher; die die Gehirnen von Kinder wäschen:
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Brasilian CLAJADEP against the Zionist Imperialism:
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Brasilian PCML, Partido MarxistLeninista revolutionaries Inverta:
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Britannian Council against the Jewish Fascism:
http://www.caabu.org/index.html Britannian&Palestinian info
center:
http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/am/publish/ Bulldogs and
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Campaign against Arm Trade:
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Canada-Edmonton Activists struggle against Jewish Fascism:
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Cartoons for think twice: http://zog.to/3/cartoons/yabo.htm
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Catalonia fights against the Zionist Imperialism:
http://www.psan.net/lluita/

Censor driven by the Zionist Imperialist Power:
http://www.jeninjenin.org/film.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,858368,00.html
Che in Russia:
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Che Guevara Information Archive:
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Che GUEVARA Internet Archive:
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Che lives -I-: http://www.che-lives.com/
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/gbook/guestbook.pl
Che lives -II-:
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Che; Vallegrande Che Festival page:
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/9051/
Chicage Combats Jewish Fascism: http://www.chicagoantiwar.org/
Chilean MIR against the Zionist Imperialism: E-post: mir-rebelde@terra.cl
Children Foundation: http://www.tamkeen.org/CSOs/PSCF/Index.html
Children Rights, emergency: http://www.kinderusa.org/emergency.htm
Children Treated Abroad: http://www.pcrf.net/abroad/abroad.html
Christians against the Jewish Manipulations Empire; Alfred OLSEN's channel Holy
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Civilized (!) Negro lapdog Condoleezza shows braveness by her Lords:
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CODOH: http://www.codoh.com/index_main.html
Colorado Solidarity Committees: http://www.ccmep.org/
Comandante: http://www.el-comandante.com/Default2.htm
http://www.el-comandante.com/guestlog.htm
http://www.el-comandante.com/ADDGUEST.HTM
Committee to Support the Revolution in Peru http://www.csrp.org/
Committee of the Union of Communists of Iran (Sarbedaran):
http://www.sarbedaran.50megs.com/new_page_3.htm
http://us.geocities.yahoo.com/gb/view?member=voice_sarbedaran
Committee to Support the Revolution in Peru: http://www.csrp.org/

Communiste Révolutionnaire Francia LCR, against Jewish Fascism:
http://www.lcr-rouge.org/

Comrade Burman in Scandinavian Ghetto (Förort, för hård):
http://www.fororten.com/eburman/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=19&mode=thread&order=0
Comrade Raymond Luc LEVASSEUR:
http://home.earthlink.net/~neoludd/

Comrade Sundiata ACOLI:
http://afrikan.i-dentity.com/sundiata/

Comrade Tom MANNING:
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3400/

Comrade TCHOLAKOV, Stefan Dimiter:
http://web.domaindlx.com/choli/Links1.asp Copenhagen
Initiative documented Crimes of Zionist Imperialism:
http://www.nejtilkrig.dk/dokumenter.htm Court tv:
http://www.courttv.com/casefiles/mumia/
Coventry Socialist Party's Anti-Zionist Forum:
http://www.coventrysocialistparty.freeserve.co.uk/ Covert
Action http://www.covertaction.org/bio_cover_Excerpts.htm
Crimes organized by the Jewish lobbies:
http://www.theunjustmedia.com/jew%20organized%20crime.htm CSVI,
Coordination for Support the People's Resistance in INDONESIA:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~peace/
http://www.xs4all.nl/~peace/pubeng/inter.html

Cuba, si!:
http://mercury.guestworld.tripod.lycos.com/wgb/wgbview.dbm?owner=cubasi
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/1690/#Top
http://htmlgear.lycos.com/gw/guest/control.guest?u=cubasi
http://htmlgear.lycos.com/gw/guest/control.guest?a=sign&u=cubasi&i=1&r=http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/1690/

Culture plunderers leagues as a project of invasion coalition of the Zionist
Imperialism:
http://www.globalfire.tv/nj/03en/politics/crimesvsculture.htm
Danemark Defence Humanbeing against Jewish Fascism:
http://www.danpal.dk/ David IRVING tells:
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/index.html

Defence the Child Rights: http://www.dci-pal.org/
Deir Yassin org.: http://www.deiryassin.org/
http://www.deiryassin.org/menu_feedback.html
Democratic Palestine:
http://members.tripod.com/~freepalestine/
Danemark-Palestine Solidarity org.:
http://www.danpal.dk/english.php Dangerous idio-animal typ
among us: http://abbc.com/bush/chimp.htm

Democracy tv&radio; watch entire, now:
http://www.democracynow.org/index.pl?btid=11 Dov'e' l'Aereo
che ha Colpito il Pentagono?!
http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

Dubliners against Zionist Imperialism:
http://irishantiwar.org/index.adp Eelam, Sri Lancaiska
Guerilla Organisation: http://www.tamilnet.com/

Electronic Intifada org.:
http://www.electronicintifada.net/new.html

Electronic Iraq org.: http://electroniciraq.net/news/
ETA, Euscal Herria Journal for Liberation Basqia:
http://members.freespeech.org/ehj/

EMHRN, Euro-Mediterranean Network:
http://www.euromedrights.net/english/engelsk.html Ethnic
Cleansing/Ethnische Säuberungen, Völkermord in Palästina&Irak:
http://globalfire.tv/nj/d2001/juden_luegen.htm (...hacked)

Euscal Herria Batasuna, Baskian Guerilla Organisation:
http://www.euskal-herritarrok.org/international/b01/eindex.htm

E.Z.L.N., Mexican Guerilla Zapatista Liberation Army: http://www.ezln.org/

FAIR - Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting
http://www.fair.org/

F.A.R.C.-E.P.; Colombian Guerilla Organisation: http://www.farc-ep.org/

Finlandia-Helsinki Activists struggle against Zionist Imperialism:
http://members.surfeu.fi/ewk/eiiskuairakiin/

Foolish Figures of Muppet Show of Human Butcher Sharony Boss:
http://www.realchange.org/ Foto Coverage&Shame on
Humanity!
http://zog.to/3/photos/shot1.htm
http://zog.to/3/tour/tr-ind.htm
http://zog.to/3/photos/shot2.htm
http://zog.to/3/photos/shot7.htm
http://zog.to/3/photos/shot10.htm
http://zog.to/3/photos/shot14.htm
http://zog.to/3/photos/beita.htm
http://zog.to/3/photos/family.htm
http://zog.to/3/photos/shot50b.htm
http://zog.to/3/photos/home-dem.htm
http://zog.to/3/palestine/house-deo.htm
http://zog.to/3/tour/tour14.htm
http://zog.to/3/tour/qana24.htm
http://zog.to/3/tour/tour-04.htm
http://zog.to/3/tour/wash-rep3.htm
http://zog.to/3/tour/tour-01a.htm
http://zog.to/3/tour/AmarEmeera.htm
http://zog.to/3/tour/tour-02.htm
http://zog.to/3/tour/tour-05.htm
http://zog.to/3/tour/baby1.htm
http://zog.to/3/tour/tour-07.htm

Francia movimento d'Internationale fight Jewish Fascism:
http://site.voila.fr/PENN974/

Freedom and Justice:
http://www.freesaj.org.uk/

Freedom Journal of Mumia Abu-JAMAL: http://www.mumia.org/freedom.now/
Free Speech; Love to Informative World::
http://members.tripod.com/~ukulju/links_2.htm Free Speech
org.&tv; watch it, just now: http://www.freespeech.org/
http://www.freespeech.org/ramfiles/genocide.ram

Free Speech Rights and its enemy number one; ADL gang:
http://www.fpp.co.uk/docs/ADL/index.html French-Palestinian
Solidarity Associations: http://www.palestine-france.com/

Genocide Survivors' Testimonies:
http://www.alnakba.org/testimony/testimony.htm

George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography:
http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm Germanian Journal's
English Redaction:
http://www.globalfire.tv/nj/english.htm

Germanian Kommunisten kämpfen gegen die zionistischen Faschisten:
http://www.kommunisten-online.de/inhalt.htm

Germanians advice the selfdefence against the Zionist Imperialism:
http://www.ostara.org/ Germar RUDOLF informs about the
jewish dominated falsification industry: http://www.vho.org/
Goetheburg city Initiative supports Palestine&Laponia against Zionist
Imperialism: http://www.stoppakriget.nu/ Greecia-Athens
Initiative against the judaized Imperialism:
http://users.otenet.gr/~ergatiki/main.htm

GreenLeft: http://www.greenleft.org.au/

Greenpeace knows that there is NATUR in the OCCUPIED TERRITORIES, too:
http://www.cpnpeecp.org/

Halmstad city Initiative supports Palestine&Laponia against Zionist Imperialism:
http://hem.passagen.se/fred.i.mellanostern/

Hank ROTH's news center:
http://pnews.org/

Genosse HÖJEBERG singt so schön noch immer:
http://www.sub.su.se/forint/antis15.htm Hiroshima&Nagasaki;
Fascist face of Zionist American massdestruction:
http://www.mctv.ne.jp/~bigapple/

Holand Initiative against Jewish Fascism:
http://www.wereldcrisis.nl/

Holocaust on Arabs&relatives:
http://www.hoffman-info.com/palestine.html
Holocaust-Industries of the Zionist Imperialist profiteers:
http://globalfire.tv/nj/d2001/juden/idxjuden.htm Humanistas
Budapest against the judaized Imperialism:
http://www.humanista.hu/

Human appeal of Holand scientists:
http://www.omroep.nl/human/tv/muur/heelboek010/heelboek010.htm

Human Rights in the occupied Middle East:
http://www.derechos.org/human-rights/mena/iot.html

Human Rights Center of Filistinia:
http://www.PchrGaza.org/

IAP: http://www.iap.org/links.htm

ILPS, Int. League of People's Struggle:
http://www.geocities.com/ilps2000/whatsnew.htm

Independent Institute against the Jewish Fabrication Industry:
http://www.independent.org/index.html

Indian Liberation:
http://www.cpiml.org/liberation/year%202003/June2003/Foreign_Policy.htm
Indict Human Butcher: http://www.iap.org/massacres.htm
Indonesian PRD against the Zionist Imperialism:
http://www.xs4all.nl./~peace/pubeng/mov/mov.html

Industrial Lie Mechanism&Traditional Fabrication and Holocaust Bluff of Jude
Psycopats: http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/id44.htm

Indymedia - Belgium
http://belgium.indymedia.org/

Intifada Online:
http://www.IntifadaOnline.com/

Intifada Online forum:
http://www.soundofegypt.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=reply&f=5&t=000007

International A.N.S.W.E.R. (Act Now to Stop War & End Racism)
http://www.internationalanswer.org

International Action Center
http://www.iacenter.org/

International Communists: http://www.vcp.nu/vcpnieuws/links.htm
International Solidarity Movement: http://www.palsolidarity.org/
Investigation Committee on Ariel Sharon's crimes against humanity:
http://www.petitiononline.com/warcrime/petition.html IRA,
Ir(a)landia's Liberation Army:
http://www.sinnfein.ie/index.html

IRSM, Ir(a)landia's Socialist Workers: http://irsm.org/irsm.html
Iranian Marxists: http://www.trife.com/sevnska/art/22-7-1m.htm
Israel is losing, because the Lie-Imperium of the Jews has no future:
http://www.bushwatch.com/comment.htm

Italia forza struggle against the Jewish Fascism:
http://www.forisociali.org/
Italiano Comrados against the Zionist Imperialism:
http://www.italiapalestina.it/sito/index.html
Jail can't prevent the truth; 'cause TRUTH is stronger than jails:
http://www.altermedia.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=208&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
Japonian peace activists struggle against Zionist Imperialism:
http://peaceact.jca.apc.org/ Japonian Communist Activists
against the Jewish Fascism: http://www.jca.apc.org/~altmedka/engl-ito.html

Jericho Movement: http://www.thejerichomovement.com/

Jesus Christus killed by the Fascist Jews:
http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/jews_killed.htm
Jewish-Zionist plots were been exposed by the Australian Freedom Fighters:
http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/Dissenters/dissenters.htm
Jihad for the liberation of Humanity:
http://www.e-jihad.net/ej/

Jim KOPP and other true Christians demasked the Zionist Barbarity:
http://www.christiangallery.com/ John BALL exposed the
Jewish lies around the JobZentrum-files:
http://www.air-photo.com/english/

John PILGER comments: http://www.johnpilger.com/
Joseph HARSCH comments: http://zog.to/3/harsch/hr-ind.htm
Journalists who always been censored:
http://www.gregpalast.com/

Karl MARX warns about the Talmudic Fascism; traditionally Jewish Barbarity:
http://www.theunjustmedia.com/karl_marx_on_the_jewish_question.htm
Karutzar; Bulgarians against the Zionist Genocides:
http://user.domaindlx.com/karutzar/

Korean progressive network: http://english.jinbo.net/

Korean news-Democratic People's Republic of Korea:
http://www.kcna.co.jp/index-e.htm E-post: eng-info@kcna.co.jp
Kristiansand-city Independent Initiative against Jewish Fascism:
http://www.uffp.org/

KurdInfo, Antisemite revolutionary community in Scandinava:
http://www.Kurdinfo.com/

Kurdistan Liberation/Guerilla forum:
http://guerilla.hypermart.net/discus/
E-post: Kurdistan_lib@hotmail.com

Kurdistan Recognizes the Armenian Genocide:
http://www.cilicia.com/armo10i_kurdistan.html More info on: Kurdistan
Exile Parliament and Conflicts between Kurdish People and Jewish Occupational
Mafia: : c/o: Haydar-Isik@t-online.de
http://www.kurdistan.org/Articles/olson2.html

Labor versus Capital in the heart of Jew World Order
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/8425/index.htm

Laponian Anti-Zionist Marxists in solidarity like Comrade Lars TÖRNMAN:
http://mailman.t0.or.at/mailman/private/infopalestine/Lars_Törnman/AntiZionistRevolutionaryLaponians

Legitimate George WCmouth BuSHIT:
http://www.legitgov.org/front_Sweden_violent.html

Leonard PELTIER Defence Committee: http://www.freepeltier.org/

Law society: http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/ E-post:
info.services@lawsociety.org.uk

Leninist Current&Japonia: http://www.ngy1.1st.ne.jp/~ieg/index-e.html
0

Linköping city Initiative supports Palestine&Laponia against Zionist
Imperialism: http://www.valet.nu/fredsnatet/

Liberated people by the massacres of Zionist Occupational Imperialism
http://bushspeaks.com/home.asp?did=121&dir=b

Libertad:
http://www.libertad.de/

Lysekyl Initiative supports Palestine&Laponia against Zionist Imperialism:
http://w1.523.telia.com/%7Eu52306189/samlatpalestina.html

London Initiative struggle against Jewish Dominance:
http://www.stopwar.org.uk/ Los Angeles Labor Bureau of
Communist Party: http://cpusa.org/article/archive/0/20
Los Angeles Working Class fight back the Zionist Imperialism:
http://www.answerla.org/

Madrid Solidarity against Jewish Fascism:
http://www.nodo50.org/csca/

Mafia BERLUSCONI-MUSSOLINI Bastard serves for second Godfafther Butcher SHARON:
http://www.gagarama.de/satire/berlusconi-europopopeo.htm

Malta-Vanetta's grafitti activists struggle against the Jewish dominance&Zionist
Imperialism:
http://www.movimentgraffitti.org/

Manipulation around terrorism is the contemporary face of Big Brother:
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc.htm Masonry Watch:
http://www.freemasonwatch.freepress-freespeech.com/bnaibrith.html

Massacres of the Zionist Occupational Gang, (Z.O.G.):
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/2367/massacre.html (pissed off by
Yahoo stafff; also, Yahoo=Yahoodi) E-post: MaSeeHi@bigfoot.com

Massacre Responsible Nucleo-armed Mafia Z.O.Gang:
http://216.230.204.167/islam/non-muslims/Israel/occupation.htm

Media lies: http://medialies.com/ Meister
ECKEHARDT (discrimined Jurist of Scandinavia) informs against judaized
Imperialism: http://www.den-svenske.com/michel_friedman.htm
Mexican delegation against Jewish occupation: http://www.palestina.com.mx/
Melbourna Activists struggle against Zionist Imperialism:
http://www.vicpeace.org/
Militarist Barbarity modenized instead of modernized civilization:
http://www.comdsd.org/links.htm
Militarized Mafia's systematical terrorism:
http://www.skrewdriver.org.uk/terror.html

Montreal-Canada Federation Info against Imperialism: http://www.fiiq.qc.ca/
Most wanted terrorists: http://abbc.com/bush/

My Lai Massacre 1968
http://www.pathfinder.com/photo/essay/mylai/mylaihp.htm
http://www.pathfinder.com/photo/essay/mylai/mylaicon.htm
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mylai/Myl_intro.html
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mylai/mylai.htm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/trenches/mylai.html
http://www.jurist.law.pitt.edu/trials3.htm
Media Watch org.: http://www.pmwatch.org/
http://64.226.129.19/pmw/index.asp

MERIP org.: http://www.MERIP..org/

Middle East Facts: http://www.mideastfacts.com/
Mideast Chamber org.: http://www.mideastchamber.com/
Miftah org.: http://www.miftah.org/Forum.cfm
http://www.miftah.org/guestbook/gbook.cfm M. S.'s Che page:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/4212/che_guevara.html
http://www.lpage.com/wgb/wgbview.dbm?owner=chguevara
E-post: moud@hotmail.com,

MultiCruelity of Jewish Barbarity: http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/
Museum of Jewish Crimes against Humanity:
http://vanguardnewsnetwork.com/archives/newsArchives.asp?category=11

Music Activists (Sniper Records&Tor's Vrede) against the Zionist dominance on
Culture:
(downloading is easy and free!.. Try it just now, enjoy yourself!)
http://www.sniper-records.net/torsvrede/e_index.htm
http://pub.alxnet.com/guestbook?id=2495619
http://pub.alxnet.com/guestbook?id=2389626 NATO; a military
toy of the zionized Imperialism:
http://www.sramota.com/nato/

Natvan demasked the Zion fraud:
http://www.natvan.com/who-rules-america/

Neglected Stories of the dismissed writers&discriminated artists:
http://www.hermes-press.com/NN1.htm

Net Activist: http://www.dkp-ml.dk/netactivist/index2.htm

News from reality: http://www.hereinreality.com/carlyle.html
News, suppressed: http://holywar.org/suppress.htm
New Yorkers against Jew York Terrorism:
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/ New Zealand Initiative
agaisnt the judaized Imperialism:
http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/

NileMedia:
http://www.nilemedia.com/
http://www.nilemedia.com/Home/contact.html

NoMoreBuSHIT:
http://www.nomorebushit.net/oralmajorityonline/index.htm

Norrköping city Initiative supports Palestine&Laponia against Zionist
Imperialism:
http://norrkopingmotkrig.webbsida.com/ Norway Defence
Humanbeing against Jewish Fascism:
http://www.palestina.no/nyweb/

Norway Solidarity Committees:
http://www.palestinakomiteen.no/hit.php?Go=alquds1

Occupation Cartoons: http://www.baha-cartoon.net/occu/occup.htm

Oli-fever costs your future:
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=5054&mode=nested&order=0

Opinions&Expressions banned by Zions? Send it us, we Free Speech Group expose it
and combat the Jewish Imperialism
http://www.ruf-ch.org/ http://www.ruf-ch.org/Leser.html
0
Organized crime-a bloody exposition:
http://w1.858.telia.com/~u85819409/altinfo/Bilder/ Oslo is
already ready to combat the Jewish Lobbies: http://www.ingenkrig.no/
Östersund city Initiative supports Palestine&Laponia against Zionist
Imperialism:
http://www.stoppakriget.webhop.net/
Palestine campaign:
www.Palestinecampaign.org/
E-post: info@palestinecampaign.org

Palestine Center: http://www.PalestineCenter.org/

Palestine chronicle: http://www.palestinechronicle.com/
Palestine Return Center: http://www.prc.org.uk/
Palestinian Initiative for the Promotion of Global Dialogue and Democracy
http://www.Miftah.org/

Palestinian Solidarity org. in Finlandia:
http://www.palestinegd.fi/links1.htm

Pancyprian for Human Rights-Int. Current News&Info Center:
http://members.spree.com/stelios/4index/full/missing.html
http://members.spree.com/stelios/main/main.htm
http://members.spree.com/stelios/hr06/derynia.htm E-post:
THEOCY@cytanet.com.cy, Passia Bulletin:
http://www.passia.org/index_bulletin.html
http://www.passia.org/guestbook.htm

Passion to own marks:
http://www.cactus48.com/passion.html Peace turned to Jheese:
http://www.gagarama.de/bush-praesident-specials/royals_s.htm
PetitionOnline
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/palpet/petition.html

Philippines Militants struggle against the Zionist Imperialism:
http://www.bayanorg.pilnet.com/

Planet, Palestinian Academicians org.: http://www.planet.edu/he.shtml

Plata Girón's Che composition:
http://che.playagiron.org/

PNA, Palestinian Government: http://www.pna.net/

Palestinian Restitution and Reparation (CPRR). Council&Petition for refugee
rights of return: http://rightofreturn.org/be-active/petition
Palestinian Diaspora and Refugee Center - Shaml:
http://www.shaml.org/ Palestine Remembered.
http://www.PalestineRemembered.com/

Palestine Times monthly:
http://www.ptimes.org/

Peace Movement Aotearo
http://www.apc.org.nz/pma/

PetitionOnline against War Crimes:
http://www.petitiononline.com/warcrime/

Petroleum giants suck the blood of Nigerian people:
http://w1.858.telia.com/~u85819409/altinfo/goil0004m.gif
Philosophie
http://www.philosophie.org

Police Brutality: http://www.october22.org/
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0011/14/peter.html

Polonia; Niet Okupacja!..
http://www.orient.art.pl/

Polonia&Palestyna:
http://viva.palestyna.pl/news/news.php?news=032003/170320032.php

Prag Activists against Zionist Imperialism: http://www.mujweb.cz/www/irak/
Prison of David Stern rounded human being:
http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ta/2003/ta030731.gif PTB -
International: http://www.ptb.be/international/indexen.html

Puerto Rican independentista movement: http://www.redbetances.com/

Puerto Rican political prisoners: http://www.wco.com/~boricua/POWS/
Puerto Rico resistance movement:
http://www.viequeslibre.org/

Push Bush-push BLiar-push Bush-push BLiar!
http://www.gagarama.de/bush-praesident-specials/bush-blubt-blair.htm
Racism exposed:
http://w1.858.telia.com/~u85819409/altinfo/rasism.htm

Racist Nature of Zionism:
http://codoh.com/zionweb/ziondark/zionracdex.html

Protest net: http://www.protest.net/ Qana
Massacre: http://members.terra.net.lb/buddy/qana/massacre.html

Radio FS-Internetional; listen to the Free Speech Internet Radio:
http://www.fsrn.org/news/
Real player basic is enough to listen (or read) the Radio FS worldwide, now!..

Remains Ethnical Cleansing: http://www.allthatremains.com/index.html
Resistance diaries:
http://www.iacenter.org/palestinian_resist.htm
Revolutionaries from Scandinavia demand; "Stop the persecution process on the
revolutionary&antiimperialist demonstranters&Laponians!":
http://www.revolusjon.no/
http://home.online.no/~steinhol/internasj/english/english.html
http://www.boikottisrael.no/eindex.html

RSP, Irish Republican Socialist Movement:
http://irsm.org/irsm.html

Russian Granata against the Zionist Imperialism:
http://www.russgranata.com/ Relativity theorie on the
relations of blood and profites:
http://www.opensecrets.org/2000elect/index/AllCands.htm SANA,
Syrian Arab News Agency:
http://www.sana.org/english/En-Images/israeli_terrorism.htm
http://www.sana.org/english/En-Images/israeli_terrorism.htm
Santa Talmudian Pedophile Bastards exposed by Germanian Comrades:
http://www.gagarama.de/ Scandinavian CivilCourage Network
Initiative supports Palestine&Laponia against Zionist Imperialism:
http://ageramotkriget.olydiga.net/

Scandinavian Forum: http://www.palestinagrupperna.a.se/forum.htm
Scandinavian Students Initiative supports Palestine&Laponia against Zionist
Imperialism:
http://www.elevermotkrig.nu/

Scotland&Deir Yassin solidarity:
http://www.deiryassin.org/scotland.html

Scotland-Glasgow Activists still fu'king judaized Bastard Tory BLiar:
http://www.banthebomb.org/news/2002/Sep/15feb.shtml

See on the Sea&around the Sea how they suck people's red blood what USrael aims:
http://www.seeingred.com/#

Selected Sites of Vietnam Veterans:
http://www.oz.net/~vvawai/org/links.html Serbian Defence
against Zionist Imperialism:
http://www.compuserb.com/sdl/
http://serbiandefenseleague.com/ Set free Freedom Fighter
Abdullah OCALAN:
http://www.bolshevik.org/Leaflets/ocalan.html

Set free the Five Cubanos:
http://www.freethefive.org/

Set free Hussam KADER and all Palestinian prisoners:
http://www.hussamkhader.com/english/default.html Set free
Indian Poet Leonard PELTIERI:
http://www.eandgcomputers.com/peacepipe/media/leonardpeltier/index.htm
Set free Jonathan POLLARD:
http://www.jonathanpollard.org/

Set free Marwan BARGHOUTI:
http://www.freebarghouti.org/

Set free Nuclear Weapon Whistler Comrade Mordechai VANUNU:
http://www.vanunu.freeserve.co.uk/

Set free Mumia ABU-JAMAL:
http://www.millions4mumia.org/

Set free "Black Panther" Revolutionary HUEY:
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~UG01/barillari/pantherchap2.html

Set free Osmo VALLO's brothers and all other innocent Gypsies in Sweden=stop
such second USrael process in the EU:
http://www.socialpolitik.com/gamlanummer/arkiv1996/961/96108.html
http://www.connection.se/HyperNews/get/od/chock/16.html

Set free the Freedom Fighter Ulla Roder!
http://www.tmfife.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ulla/ullastory.shtml
Set free the Free Speech Fighter Ernst ZÜNDEL:
http://www.zundelsite.org/

Set Free Slobodan MILOSEVIC:
http://www.icdsm.org/

Shadow United Nations: http://home.wanadoo.nl/shadowun/

Silenced Voices' org.: http://www.dfn.org/

Socialist Worker:
http://www.labournet.org.uk/so/47boycottisrael.html

SolidarityCom.:
http://www.solidaritydesign.com/

Solidarity movement: http://www.palsolidarity.org/
Sombrero-homepage
http://welcome.to/sombrero

Stop the "Preventing of Work Rights" of Anti-Fascists, like the case of
antisemite revolutionary&antiimperialist demonstrant Stefan Dimiter TCHOLAKOV
and isolated Laponian Jouko JOKINEN:
http://www.uni-klu.ac.at/~gossimit/phorum/list.php?f=7
http://web.domaindlx.com/choli/Links1.asp
http://on.starblvd.net/meet/Entertainment/TV_Shows/dbzelite/

Stop-Fascism: http://www.stop-fascism.org/zionist_fascism.htm

Stop the "Registration process of opinion"=democratical masked cleansing on the
intellectuals who struggle against the Zionist Imperialism:
http://www.blaskan.nu/Blaskan/Nummer6/Artiklar/asiktsregistrering.html
http://www.tfrebell.se/nyb3-02-19dec.shtml
http://www.kommentar.org/sidor/2001/Div/Upprop_mot_reg.html
SAEPO (Säpo), Scandinavia's most corrupted, manipulated, Jew controlled
marionettes, security falsificators exposed by Anders SVENSSON:
http://www.zaramis.nu/net/us/artiklar/sapo.html
http://www.proletaren.se/Proletaren/Prolarkiv/Proletaren0306/Pro0306vi.html

Spania-Barcelona Activists against the judaized Imperialism:
http://www.noalaguerra.org/

Spania Antorcha Marxist Leninista against the Zionist Imperialism:
http://www.antorcha.org

Speak Truth, so you can be stronger against Barbarity:
http://www.speaktruthtopower.org/index_main.html
E-post: info@rfkmemorial.org "U.N.-Racism Conference 2001 and
U.S.-Model zionistical hypocrisy" E-post: info@umbragebooks.com

Sri Lanka against the Zionist Imperialism:
http://www.jvpnet.com/

STOP AID to the Fascist Z.O.Gangs !:
http://www.stopaidtoisrael.com/ Stop Torture (Warning:
Mo$$ad's new face Shin Beth Assassination Gang etc are available to read and
manipulate all the messages, specially on such Human Rights NGOs...Mo$$ad uses
cookies on Internet..) http://www.geocities.com/STOP_TORTURE/
E-post: pcati@netvision.net.il Sydney Initiative
against Zionist Imperialism:
http://www.cpa.org.au/campaign/anti-war.html Tahrir daily
news:
http://news.tahrir.net/cgi-bin/daily/daily.pl?article1=1817
Tari Research Institute.: http://www.tari.org/
http://www.guestbookdepot.com/cgi-bin/sign_book.cgi?book_id=94841 Webmaster;
Louay AL JONDI; e-post: laljondi@hotmail.com

Terror Alerts were the simple traditionally lies of the judaized Imperialism:
http://www.etherzone.com/2003/wats021703.shtml Terrorism is
the origin of USrael:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/jun2003/irae-j21.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/jun2003/isr2-j23.shtml

Testimonies of the survivors of Zionist Ritual Abuse; evidences on a
Scandinavian sect of neo-Zionist criminals who suspects of Incest; this Jewish
sect still recruits the criminal clan members from occupied Middle East:
http://www.hotboards.com/guestbooks/book.cgi?who=rahome

Toronto-Canada Activists against Jewish Fascism: http://www.tcaswi.org/
True Holocaust what HITLER never did, but the Jews:
http://www.aztlan.net/holocoust.htm Tupac Amaru's
Revolutionary Marxist Movement (MRTA).
http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/mrta/

Tv-Internetional; Anti-Imperialist news on the Free Speech tv Rami:
http://rami.tv/

Ukrainian People against the Jewish Disinformation:
http://www.ukar.org/defe.shtml U.N.-Embassies of
Palestine: http://www.palestine-un.org/

U.N./Palestine Observators:
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF?OpenDatabase

U.N./Relief to Palestine: http://www.un.org/unrwa/

U.S.-Appeal:
http://www.sustain-campaign.org/

Vancouver-Canada&Rafah-Palestine solidarity:
http://ender.indymedia.org/ism-vancouver/

Vietnam Veterans:
http://www.oz.net/~vvawai/index.html Violations of
International Law&ICJ authorities (!!!) didn't react:: http://this.is/jenin/
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/gallery/special_focus_jenin.htm
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/Feature/un__reveals_monumental_destruction.htm
The Waco Massacre:
http://serendipity.magnet.ch/waco.html WAFA News Bureau:
http://www.wafa.pna.net/EngText/IndexE.htm

War crimes: http://www.deoxy.org/wc/wc-index.htm
War profiteers: http://www.warprofiteers.com/
What Really Happened: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/
Where is the Plane, Flight 77?!
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/flight77.htm
http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

Wilhelm TELL against the Zionist Imperialism:
http://www.ety.com/tell/intnlsection.htm

Women's centre: http://www.wclac.org/stories/jenin/Buried%20Alive.html
Women's Peace initiative:
http://www.womenspeacepalestine.org/incidentreports.htm
Workers' Party of Belgique, W.P.B.: http://www.wpb.be/icm.htm
Workers Party of Iralandia:
http://www.workers-party.org/wphome.htm E-post: info@workers-party.org
Workers' World
http://www.workers.org/

World Organization against Torture:
http://www.omct.org/ E-post: omct@omct.org
WSWS, World Socialist Web Site
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/sep2001/isra-s01.shtml
http://users.cgiforme.com/socialistica/cfmboard.html

Yilmaz GÜNEY Forums:
http://www.yilmazguney.com/haberler/political_news.htm
http://www.yilmazguney.com/forums/_disc2/00000012.htm
http://www.yilmazguney.com/forums/_disc2/0000000d.htm
http://www.yilmazguney.com/Guest/mesaj_sayfasi.htm Zionist
Barbarity:
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/7891/index_zion1.html
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/7891/feedback_form.html
http://www.MidEastFacts.com

Site&Brand New Infos about the Massacres and Collaboration acts& Z.O.Gang's
CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY (International rules, Palestinian Law and Punishment
source).
http://www.phrmg.org/english/Collaborators/Collaborators.htm

11 September 2001 caused by armed Mafia USrael:
http://www.davidduke.com/writings/howisraeliterror.shtml

That's all Folks!.. This is an alphabetical/selected portals list for all Good
People around Planet Earth who are anti-War, anti-Imperialist, anti-Racist.,
anti-Zionist and anti-Fascist; who want to Fight Back and build together a
Better World and this work is a tribute to Revolutionary Comrade Carlo GIULIANI

....and remember what Comrade Ernesto CHE GUEVARA says:
"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of
mine!" Mirror links and main reason to create the mirror pages:
The amerojudaized Corporate Mafia Gangs and its lackeys in the Z.O.Gangs
definitely want to shut down the Anti-Fascist sites! Here are some mirror sites
if you can't get through to the one above and you find the useful
sources&informative supporters of all above sites: Amateur
plot on 9/11 and plenty of evidences that may hang George WCmouth Bush:
http://web11.superb.net/www.nodomain.com/ American Free
Press: http://www.americanfreepress.net/

BusssSH'T flash: http://www.ericblumrich.com/
Buying of the president:
http://www.bop2004.org/dtaweb/bop2004/ Documentazione
sull'infiltrazione dei nemici nella Chiesa:
http://www.marcel-lefebvre-tam.com/

Daily Catholic:
http://www.dailycatholic.org/
Fair: http://www.fair.org/international/iraq.html
Global search: http://globalresearch.ca/
IA Centre: http://www.iacenter.org/

Information Clearing House:
http://members.cox.net/informationclearinghouse/article1008.htm

Italiana-Al Jaziree:
http://www.aljazira.it/

Il "mazzo di carte" del regime di Bush:
http://it.geocities.com/comedonchisciotte/immagini/carte2.html

Israel Shamir criticizes military Mafia USrael:
http://www.israelshamir.net/

Jewish domination of the diamond business:
http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/diamond/chap8.htm

Lega contro gli espianti di organi vitali a cuor battente:
http://www.antipredazione.org
Liberate America from Israel:
http://www.intellex.com/~rigs/index.htm

Liberty instead of Jewish Neo-Liberal Fascism:
http://www.sweetliberty.org/

Le jeu de cartes du régime Bush:
http://www.reseauvoltaire.net/jeudecartes.html

Mass Destruction of Iraq:
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/7891/index_iraq.html

Marx against Zionist Imperialism:
http://www.rcgfrfi.easynet.co.uk/marxism/articles/
http://www.rcgfrfi.easynet.co.uk/marxism/articles/f134-ime.htm
Messaggi subliminali:
http://digilander.iol.it/subliminale MideastFacts:
http://www.mideastfacts.com

NO WAR for military Mafia USrael!..:
http://www.nowarforisrael.com

Opium Lords:
http://www.jfkmontreal.com/home.htm People's Investigation
of 9/11:
http://www.911pi.com
Politicalgraveyard
http://www.politicalgraveyard.com/ PR Watch:
http://www.prwatch.org/

Propaganda Matrix:
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/whitewash.html

Public action exposes WACO-Massacre: http://www.public-action.com

Piss off the militarized Fascist Mafia USrael!
http://www.nkusa.org/images/flag-ani.gif

Real Terrorism-Massacre portal:
http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/

Perpetual War Portfolio:
http://www.rationalenquirer.org/features/portfolio/

Racist Jewish High Priests of Globalisation:
http://www.bilderberg.org/

Reclaim the media:
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/flash.html/

Sinn Fein:
http://www.sinnfein.ie/

Stop us military aid to israel:
http://www.stop-us-military-aid-to-israel.net/

Third World research: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/index.html

Tv GlobalFire:
http://www.globalfire.tv/nj/03en/politics/crimesvsculture.htm

Tradizione e Comunità:
http://www.adsum.it

TransnaZionale:
http://www.transnationale.org/etn.htm

Ukrainian Archive exposes the judaized Imperialist Barbarity:
http://www.ukar.org/asper/asper01.html http://www.ukar.org/

U.S Financial Aid To Israel:
http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

USrael=Fascist State Terrorism:
http://www.israel-state-terrorism.org

Una Storia Segreta :
http://www.io.com/%7Esegreta/index.html

USS Liberty:
http://www.ussliberty.org

Israel is losing, because the Lie-Imperium of the Jews has no future:
http://www.bushwatch.com/comment.htm Journalists who always
been censored: http://www.gregpalast.com/
Neglected Stories of the dismissed writers&discriminated artists:
http://www.hermes-press.com/NN1.htm Terror Alerts were the
simply traditionally lies of the judaized Imperialism:
http://www.etherzone.com/2003/wats021703.shtml

World Socialist Organization exposes US is simply pet of Zionism:
http://www.wsws.org/sections/category/news/na-milit.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/sep2001/isra-s01.shtml

World Messenger:
http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/index.html

Don't forget this foto, imperialist barbarity///CHILDREN SHALL OVERCOME!..
http://zog.to/3/tour/MansourAbu.htm








Redaction Team Tv Independent Laponia Solidarity regards fr Piteaa city 94128 in the northern EU's occupied Palestine; colonized Laponia 10-21-2003 6:05

Want to invite all poets to join the online poetry workshop that is going on at http://pub58.ezboard.com/fperformancepoetryfrm1

IT'S FREE!!!

Billy Marshall Stoneking Singing the Snake 10-20-2003 22:40

LITTER -- the bookplate arrived today -- thanks!

TEEKAY -- didn't mean to have the last word, but there I was, fingers on the keyboard, and it seemed the natural thing to do...



howard 10-20-2003 21:15

HOWARD: Jolly good job on the workbook.
Didn't know you had the last word though. Must fix that :-D

Hubby and his brother both have herniated discs. The episodes come and go, but when they come they're doozies. They haven't had surgery or anything.
Wishing Dorie well.

RHODA: (((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))))))
Forget the rejection.
Would you give up that wonderful feeling of hope and anticipation when you send out that baby, just so rejection wouldn't hit quite as hard.
No Way.
And there is a universal law that goes something like : Persistance shall be rewarded.
So you just keep on sending it out.

What I'm Working On:
Groan. I'm almost too embarrassed to mention it.

I am at the moment flogging myself with this huge imaginary whip to get the 1st draft of my 'novel' from longhand onto the computer.
I've given myself until the last day of October to get it done otherwise I abandon it forever.

As much as I hate deadlines I've begun to realise (bit late in the day) that I really have to set myself some.

10 days to go. 4 chapters.
I would make a shocking secretary.

Going...

Teekay 10-20-2003 18:52

I guess it's appropriate that the religion topic in the WB has a ringing bell (I don't know if there's sound, just that the bell symbol rocks back and forth).

Place I worked for last year supported a Methodist nursing home company. They always reported their employee count as 666. They shoulda had a bell.

Mark 10-20-2003 17:15

Just read (again) the purported origin of a well-known phrase, and it prompted this groaner -- I love to write these...

In a large zoo in a northern state they had a rare female hairless monkey. They named her Lola, but that's not really relevant to this account.
Anyway, Lola, the hairless monkey, was eager to mimic human behavior, and would look through any magazines she could get her hands (paws?) on, and imitate the things she saw in the pictures.
One day someone left a Victoria's Secret catalog in her cage, and the pictures of fascinated her. Every time her keepers came in she would point to the pictures and then to herself, until they got the idea that she wanted a bra to wear. So they decided to buy her one, but they couldn't decide which one, so they got two of them.
When they arrived, she put them on. Both of them. And she wore them proudly from that day on. And that's all she wore.
But as winter approached, and the days began to get cold, she started to shiver in her cage (remember Lola was a hairless monkey) until one day she shivered so hard that her new clothes just fell completely off her, and she stood there still shivering.
And that prompted one of the zookeepers to remark : "Look - it's cold enough to freeze the bras off a bald monkey!"


howard 10-20-2003 10:47

Teekay:

I can actually hear you say that!

Debra 10-20-2003 10:16

Thanks for the thoughts, prayers, and encouragement for Dorie. I'll pass them along. She has an appointment this Wed. with the neurosurgeon.

I finally got the religion discussion copied over into the workbook. Although each post has my id on it, I entered the name of the original poster at the top of each entry. Feel free to post additions, continuations, etc., as usual. If you're not registered for the notebook it's very easy to do.

Thanks again, MARK, for the space and bandwidth!



howard 10-19-2003 23:03

Howard -- thoughts and prayers for Dorie.

Mark 10-19-2003 22:19

Thank-you Rhonda, having a lazy Sunday. Crossword taking priority. I am enjoying reading writers notes and getting to know everyone. Feels good to belong to the group again.

Jennifer 10-19-2003 13:37

Randall

HEY!

Jerry...my back surgery was very successful! The L5 level disc was "squashed" and a nerve pinched. A sturgeon, no, wait, hummmmm ... a surgeon in Abilene repaired the area after three months of trying to handle the disc otherwise. Steroid injections straight into the disc with a needle a foot long! At least!! Lots of fun there. So much pain I was forced to drink at least three Colorado Kool Aid beers as my wife drove me home after the injections!! "Honey, slow down, I almost spilled my beer!" A woman of little humor I believe she deliberately, with forethought and malice, drove over the roughest part of the road.

However, when steroids failed the doctor decided to cut. Annnnnnd since it was September by then, he put off the surgery for two weeks while he went Elk hunting in Colorado! My kind of a doctor!!! "Ah, Randall, double up on the pain pills, I'm going hunting! We'll put you under the knife when I get back in two weeks." Sure enough, two weeks later, as the nurses were wheeling me into surgery he walked alongside telling me of his hunt. I mean, ya gotta love the guy! Got a nice 6 x 6 ... BTW... long shot ... across an alpine meadow ... beautiful mountains in the background ... but I'm wandering. (GRIN)

My work involves heavy lifting, car and truck batteries, cases of anti-freeze, large cups of black coffee and donuts ... ah, no problem with that! This doctor was so good...he didn't leave a scar! No problem with my back surgery...

Outta here

Randall

Randall 10-19-2003 12:56

HOWARD,

I am praying for your wife that she will have a successful surgery and recovery.

JENNIFER,

Glad to have you here.

Rhoda 10-19-2003 10:15

Howard - I will keep your good wife in my prayers. As far as back surgery, I have undergone 3, each made things worse rather then better. Well that isn't exactly true, the second one made things a bit better since I was unable to walk when I went under the knife.

My last one was in '93 and I'm sure that the surgical procedure has improved since then, at least I sure hope so.

Back surgery is sort of like any other malady, those who have had it seem to seek out others with the same problem. I've talked with many who have had it and have never found one who said it was successful or at least not as successful as the doctor led them to believe (my surgeon assured me that I would be able to play football before my first surgery!) I have run into several folks who swore it was much better after fusion (something I've never had) but given a year or to after the surgery explain that relief lasted less then six months after surgery.

Well I guess I shouldn't say that, my cousin had back surgery four years ago and is doing well, so I guess it isn't always a failure. Maybe their learning more about how to do things. I've read of a new artificial disk that they have been using now for about a year with great success so maybe that will change the way things are done on backs.

I have always told people who ask me about back surgery not to even think about it till your laying on the floor unable to move from the pain, then if after a week in hospital you have a couple of different doctors tell you that surgery is the ONLY answer then maybe you should consider it.

As I said, my last surgery was in '93 and I've been on pain killers of one sort or another ever since. Right now I use the Duragisic patch, it contains the pain killer Fentenyl (SP?) as well as an anti-arthritis med called Bextra, and a nerve pain killer called Neurontin, and a muscle relaxant called Flexural. These drugs keep the pain down enough so I can lead a somewhat normal life, however I am limited on the time I can stand, or even sit in a straight chair, and walking is a chore, since some of the nerves that echo the location of my feet to my brain have been damaged (according to my Physical Therapist) and I must use a cane to maintain my balance.

Jerry 10-19-2003 0:08

Randall

Hey!

Real busy this week. We have moved into a new, remodled, NAPA store, which was really part of the old one to start with. Anywwwway a construction crew has been tearing down the old one this week. They brought in 2 rubber-tired Cat loaders and several dump trucks. It took one loader, I guess the other was a spare, 8 hours to demolish a 8,000 square foot building. Fifty years of dust and debris hauled away in 10 yard dump trucks. My boss, Larry, is a nervous wreck. The owner of the store is underfoot and with the dirt and dust swirling about the new store is getting dirty. I try to keep as much off him as possible. I told the other employees we need to give Larry solutions not problems!

I didn't even turn on the computer this week. Mark it down to lazy or just down in the dumps. Viv, e-mail me... startiki2002@yahoo.com or startiki@hotmail.com. I do not have your addy.... I will gather up more learning materials for your students. It's really not a problem. I'm OUT of the religion talk busisness. Never talk politics or religion with your friends, my mom once told me.

Welcome Jennifer...

Borrowed from: songlyrics.com

JENNIFER JUNIPER

Donovan

Jennifer Juniper lives upon the hill,
Jennifer Juniper, sitting very still.
Is she sleeping? I don't think so.
Is she breathing? Yes, very low.
Whatcha doing, Jennifer, my love?

Jennifer Juniper, rides a dappled mare,
Jennifer Juniper, lilacs in her hair.
Is she dreaming? Yes, I think so.
Is she pretty? Yes, ever so.
Whatcha doing, Jennifer, my love?

I'm thinking of what it would be like if she loved me.
You know just lately this happy song it came along
And I like to somehow try and tell you.
Jennifer Juniper, hair of golden flax.
Jennifer Juniper longs for what she lacks.

Do you like her? Yes, I do, Sir.
Would you love her? Yes, I would, Sir.
Whatcha doing Jennifer, my love?
Jennifer Juniper, Jennifer Juniper, Jennifer Juniper.

Jennifer Juniper vit sur la colline,
Jennifer Juniper assise très tranquille.
Dort-elle? Je ne crois pas.
Respire-t-elle ? Oui, mais tout bas.
Qu'est-ce que tu fais, Jenny mon amour?

Jennifer Juniper, Jennifer Juniper, Jennifer Juniper.

Night All!

Randall

Randall 10-19-2003 0:06

I got my manuscript sent back to me today. I knew I would probably get rejected again. I thought I was prepared, but I do not think there is anyway one can talk themselves into being completely philosophical about it.

Back to the drawing board. Now is the time to fix the problems and submit again.

HALLIE,

Sounds like an exciting novel. Lots of luck on it. I like inspirationals.

Rhoda 10-18-2003 21:26

This is a pretty cool site, for anyone who might be interested.

http://www.1000words.net/



Teekay 10-18-2003 20:08

BEN: I think MARK means that to say he was lynched to a post would be like saying he was rioted to a post. I think you are wishing to use lynch as in lynch mob, but are at the same time mixing it up with lynch - to tie or secure.
Just my 2 cents worth - I have been known to be wrong.

Teekay 10-18-2003 20:07

MARK: Although I can understand what you're saying, I can't quite agree with you one hundred percent--although I know I should. My wife says the same thing about my writing when I use a character's voice in the narrator's chair. But I believe some stories should be written in "Voice": that is, if the person is uneducated, or else young, and uneducated, they won't be "speaking the Queen's goode English", but will Bastardize it. I work with guys who do this regularly, and on a daily basis. If you want, I can email the first page to you, so that way you can get a better idea of what I'm trying to say--not that I know where the story's going yet... :-}

ben 10-18-2003 19:46

A Calming Answer:

I hear your cry, I hear your plea
and here I am to rescue thee
with words of advice for which you hanker:
Look not on the outer, but within for your anchor.

Turn from the noise and the rabble and din
and you'll find it there in the quietude within.
It's been there always, deep, but well lit
take time, look deep and you can't help but find it.


10-18-2003 18:43

A Desperate Plea


A cry from the heart
A tear from my eye
A scream wrenched from my throat
Because I want to die
I'm lost and alone
Tossed all about
With nothing to hold
Except my own doubt
I need somebody
Who will care for me
I can't do it alone
I'm adrift at sea.
Won't somebody help me,
Before I am gone?
Or before I disappear
Like a haunting song.
Like a moaning melody
Long, sweet,and slow
I move on with my life
Onward, alone I go
A desperate plea
For that special one
"Please come find me!
My heart is numb."
Dissappointment rankles me
Discontent am I
I'm tired of waiting
Alone my tears I cry
Though I'm tired of waiting
I will continue on
Waiting forever...forever
If it takes that long.
From a hurting heart
Comes a desperate plea
Please, come quickly
Come and find me.

Copyrighted 10-15-03 @10:00 pm Elaine

That's all I have for now. Now I have to go and defrost my frozen fingers.
Till Niagara Falls!


Elaine 10-18-2003 15:17

Hey y'all!
I actually have time for a longer post this time besides that tiny little paragraph a week ago. I saw a lot of newbies, and a lot of older members who I recognized. So welcome NEWBIES! I was going to read all of the posts but I kind of just skimmed through a lot of it. (I don't have that much time!WINK, WINK) I have nothing else to say except that I'm still looking for colleges. I wrote a couple more poems, I have one of my novels now organized, unbelievably. It's turning colder where we are and it's probably only going to get colder. At the end of the month, my highschool band and I are going to a state music convention, and we're performing! It's a real honor to be going and I can't wait! Our songs are awesome, all of them are grade 5 or 6, otherwise the highest levels of playing difficulty ever written. It's challengeing but I hope the rest of my section gets it together otherwise we're going to stink up the entire band. So frustrating! One more thing before I go, I wrote a poem that I wanted to share with you, but since this post is kind of long, i'll include it in my next post.
Till Niagara Falls!


Elaine 10-18-2003 15:10

Hallie, How exciting!! You are certainly an adventurer, I would love to read your work.

Jennifer 10-18-2003 12:13

Thanks Howard, You really have your hands full.. I had two back surgeries yrs. ago and both were unsuccessful. A small word of advice . the best surgeon you can get. It is unforunate that we must decide to under go treatment when pain is so great. You will do anything to rid yourself of such pain. I still have the pain, now with M.S. it can be unbearable.. I wish your wife a good treatment and speedy recovery.

Jennifer 10-18-2003 12:09

BEN -- the emotion of that first sentence would work, but your grammar won't. I don't believe one can get 'lynched to a lampost.' 'Lynch' is a, what?, intransitive verb? Takes no object. We can't lynch TO anything.

Daddy will have to get lynched and hung.

Mark 10-18-2003 6:42

Thanks Howard. I've got GOOGLE as my homepage. I was on it this morning. I found a lot of information that was kind of disturbing when you think about it...I try not to think about it too much. When I came up with that opening line the other day, I was at work. I got home and wrote it down and then read it out to my daughter. She just looked at me and said, this isn't gonna be a happily ever after kinda story, is it? I said, I don't know. Does it look like it?

Teekay: Funny thing about Pen. During the War--the big ww2--my parents lived in Holland, an occupied country. There was no food, and my mother came down with scurvy. She was in the hospital as the war ended, dying, when the doctors said they had this new drug they were testing. Her father said to give it a shot, and, needless to say, it worked.

Anyways, gotta go Google...

ben 10-18-2003 1:04

and BEN -- "political, prejudiced American Rah-Rah B.S." sounds like a requirement for inclusion in any story that begois with that sentence. You can find a lot of it on the internet, and you can "google" quite a bit of info on the SDS and other groups from that period. Check
http://eletters.wnn.ziffdavis.com/zd1/cts?d=75-75-1-1-68160-3178-1
for some great search tips for GOOGLE.
If that url doesn't work, the tinyurl is
http://tinyurl.com/rdoo

howard 10-17-2003 23:52

Hi JENNIFER! Welcome back! Also HALLEE and CAROL, and anyone else I missed.

I'm working on school projects mostly. I'm only taking two classes, but they're both writing emphasis classes, with mandatory journals and an essay or two. Perhaps even a poem or short story.

But even they are on the back burner for a while. Lots of work to do around the house before winter, and now I've got a tree to remove from my mother's front porch. We had some pretty stiff winds this week, and one gust snapped a 50 foot pine tree off about half way up, and it just grazed the side of her home, ripping through the rain gutter, and landing on the little pen she runs the dog in. Luckily Andy (the dog) was inside, and not in the pen.

Then on top of that, we just found out that Dorie has a herniated disk in her lower back. She's been experiencing tremendous pain for several weeks now, and they finally did an MRI (two, in fact) and found the problem. It's in the hands of the neurosurgeon now -- should hear in a week or so what he's got planned. Meanwhile she's been allergic to everything they've given her for pain, including the steroid they prescribed.
Life goes on...

Haven't got the 'religion' discussion bits sorted out yet. Should do so soon, I hope. Go ahead and use the forum in the workbook to continue, and I'll catch up as I can.

I did manage to get next year's garlic crop planted. Trying four new (to me) varieties, as well as a good planting of the one I've been using for years. I didn't count, but I'd estimate about 250 sets planted. I love the stuff! And we haven't seen a vampire around these parts in years! :-)


howard 10-17-2003 23:45

Ya'know, for a whole day there, I actually thought we'd have a World Series between Boston and Chicago.

Mark 10-17-2003 22:02

Hey Jerry:

Not bad really. I'm still getting checks, but not big ones for both of them. and I'm still hoping for an agent and a commercial contract.

Debra 10-17-2003 21:50

Jennifer:

Hello. :)

What I'm working on:
A novel that takes place in Afghanistan.
An inspirational love story.
A novel of international intrigue.
Editing already completed books.
Writing synopses (i.e. sucknopses) for the completed books so I can work on getting them submitted.

Right now, I'm mostly working on the first one -- just because it's flying from my fingertips. The other two can wait (and editing and sucknopses can always wait.)


Hallee 10-17-2003 16:50

Hey everyone.

Happy Friday!

(grin)


Hallee 10-17-2003 16:48

I'm working on a short story for Hitchcock. Wondering what the room members are working on? Sometimes I have problems editing. My son finds that the most interesting part of writing. Then again he teaches English, so maybe that follows, don't know, often I completely ruin my story while editing. Anyone else have this problem?

Jennifer 10-17-2003 13:27

Teekay,

I also have the allergic reaction to Pen. When I was in my teens it was given to me for a Kidney infection. My mum about lost it when she went out to work and came home to find me not better and covered in hives. Mine were major nasty. I even had swollen lips. It took months for my hives to be gone. The really nasty, raised stuff went away in about a week to ten days. After that the hives would become accented when I engaged in physical activity. My heart goes out to you girlie ((((( hugs)))))

Take care you.

Rachel

Rachel 10-17-2003 11:31

Teekay; Hope you are feeling better and the hives have all gone down. Allergies are not fun.

Carol: I like the idea of going off planet. It leaves more scope. Just finished 2nd to last lesson plan and power point project. Only one more to go. Then I get a week off from work and school. Guess what, I'll have time for Pommes and gardening. Ohhhhh I can't wait.

Howard: Thank you so much for the password. I got it and cannot wait for vacation.

Mary: Could you post a topic sometime along the 28th. I can't wait for vacation. It's coming! Ohhhh! It's been so long since I've written anything more than class assignments on lesson plans. There's so much MORE to write.
I'm going to have some FUN at last.



Viv 10-17-2003 10:17

In 1955, the Klan lynched my daddy to the lamp post in front of our house...now isn't that a good opening line for a story?

Unfortunately, I know nothing about lynchin', an' I've had to do a little researching on the subject. Does anyone know anything about "Students for a Democratic Society"? "Freedom Houses"? established by the "Student Non-Violent Co-ordinating Committee" for Blacks working to regain the vote? It's just some background info. It's not super important, but it might be, depending on what I can dig up. Now I know there's a diverse group of you out there, and I don't want any political, prejudiced American Rah-Rah B.S. I'm white, non political, and not the least bit prejudiced. Whites were lynched just as quickly as Blacks. I haven't decided if this opening line is a Black person, or a white person. It's ambiguous right now, kinda swingin' in the wind to use a really bad pun. I'm just cuious. Feel free to answer here on this page, or email me. I'm not looking to offend, so don't you be looking for it either, but controversy sells.

ben 10-17-2003 9:39

So Mary - what happened to shorty night? Hummmm?

Debra - How's the sweety books coming, haven't heard much about them as of yet.

Litter - my daughter has your book as of right now, but hasn't had time to Finnish it as of yet, she's working three jobs right now to get a bit of money ahead to fix her house up a bit more. You wouldn't believe the changes she's made to her little one thousand dollar house, it's becoming quite a nice place. Last month she pulled up the carpet that has covered the floor in her living room since 1967 (the folks who laid it used newspaper for padding????) and discovered a wide plank flooring much like I remember from my school days in the little white one room schoolhouses where I first learned my P's and Q's. She decided to leave the beauty of the wood in place and finished it off with a nice polyurathane floor finish.

Must get back to work loading the computer system. Since I got my 120 meg drive, my daughter talked me out of my old 80 gig drive so I've been building both hard drives at the same time. I had Windows XP Home on mine but old Bill Gates insured that I couldn't leave it on and it absolutely refused to load on the daughters machine. Had to fdisk and reformat the dang thing to put 98 on it. The daughter likes good old Windows 98, and to tell the truth, I sure miss that little OS but have decided to keep XP on this one as 98 didn't seem to like the HP system much for some reason.

But I ramble on and on and on.

Jerry My site 10-17-2003 0:29

Actually, I'm from South Dakota, they just send the tests off the Mpls. My doc called me this morning and said things came out well, she peeked at the test and said all was normal. I will be getting confirmation soon from the Mpls folks.

Teekay - Yep, saw that but haven't peeked at the great debate as of yet. Discussing religious beliefs is a good thing so long as it doesn't come to blows.

Jerry Ericsson 10-17-2003 0:18

What ho, chums?

First, some apologies. Many moons ago I promised a bookplate to those that wanted, and between my atrocious memory and accidentally deleting friendly mail (stored and incoming, $%*£&… ) during the SoBig attacks, I failed spectacularly. Howard's and Mary's are winging their way across the Atlantic as I type, but I have lost the names and addresses of everyone else – sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. So for those who still want, just email me and one shall be winging its way to you by return.

Sunday past was the recital of the liturgical works I co-wrote with a friend. It was amazing to hear my words being sung by a choir in a 17th Century mini-cathedral. Strange, but wonderful…

Joy, Joy, Happy, Happy,


Litter My AuthorsDen 10-16-2003 19:46

JENNIFER: Hi :-) I like the poem.

JERRY: The religious debate ain't over. It's just going to play at another house.
BWAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HA HA HA HA

Okay, you get the idea.

HOWARD: How goes it with collecting all the bits and pieces?

And it's another sunshiny Springalingy day in the old back yard. Whoo hooo, Spring is sprung.

Going...

Teekay 10-16-2003 19:24

Thank-you for your reply, makes me feel welcome...Where are you from in Minn.? As far as religion I enjoy the works of C.S.Lewis. I hope you continue to feel better. By the way Jennifer and Jennifer H. are both the same, I just forgot how I signed in.. Thank-you again for the welcome...

Jennifer 10-16-2003 6:12

Hi Jennifer! Welcome home.

I think you must have left by the time I joined up back in, what was it, like 97 or sometime around that time.

Got back from my VA test, talk about frightening. The stuff they pushed in my vein made me feel like I was having a heart attack, guess that's what it was supposed to do, but the form they had me sign had stuff like "I understand that this test can make me have a heart attack, and that I could die as a result of the test."

But at any rate, it was only for a short time so it wasn't all that bad, the only pain is that I have to wait a couple of weeks for the results since they have to be sent to Minneapolis to be interpurted, then sent back, then my Doc sends me a letter with the results.

Sure glad it's over anyhow, we went down the day before, and spent the day touring the Black Hills by car. Had a wonderful time. Part of the tour involved shopping a bit in the Office Max store, found a 120 gig hard drive on sale for eighty bucks!! Had to have it, so now I'm installing all the crap I have on my machine on the new, fast ATA 100 7200 RPM hard drive. It's almost like having a new machine!

Enough of live in the wildreness, sure glad you all figured out the religious stuff, it was intresting to follow, and I think I learned a thing or two by the reading, and any day that one learns one thing is a productive day indeed.

WRITE ON!!

Jerry Ericsson 10-16-2003 0:36

What do you folks think? This came to me while I was bathing..of course.
Late Blooming
by
Jennifer Homme

Brusting colors, beauties buds of spring, natures pleasurable welcoming:
Warnth from the sun, bees busing,
baby birds testing dainty wings, while their mothers sing:
Perfect daybreaks for childrens growing, boats on rivers, while lovers rowing:
Soon the frost from autumn brings, angel's tears and winters chilling:
You've missed the sring, slept through the summering.
Awake the soul of seasons past, of lessons learned during your lingering: Cme out..Come out is time to show your true shining:

jennifer 10-15-2003 23:15

DEBRA: S'oright.
(For full effect to be said in small gruff gremlin like voice.)

Teekay 10-15-2003 19:10

How you have grown! I was a regular a long time ago, years. I'm writing again as I miss friends of like interest. May I rejoin the group? I need some objective opinions. You must forgive my mispelling at times or words that make no sense, M.S. has made my fingers slip and brain sometimes stall altogether. Aren't I lucky to have such a great excuse hahah
Jennifer

jennifer 10-15-2003 18:39

Teekay:


I ddidn't mean to make you upset. Here's what you should do. Ask your doctor if the reaction can get worse every time. If not, you're in the clear.


If.......

Then worry about the bracelet.

Debra 10-15-2003 10:37

**Taylor**

I was so glad to see civilised discussion on religion in here... I kept fighting the urge to join in.

Ty all for the advice awhile back... I am writing up a storm now

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lianchun yang china jilin shanwei wollastonite mining co., ltd. 10-15-2003 2:36

DEBRA: Oh, I never thought about that. What a pain.
It just made me really sick.
I didn't have to go to hospital or anything, so I guess I'm only mildly allergic.

Teekay 10-15-2003 2:10

Teekay:

I'm so sorry to hear about your allergy to Pencillian.

Don't you have to wear something like a bracelet to let people know in case you become incapacitated by being hit by a large forign object, knocked out and then getting an infection at the site of the flesh wound?

Debra 10-14-2003 20:10

Hi All :)

Its amazing what the proper medication can do for a person. Not only do I have my old cheerful self back, but I managed to get some physical work done yesterday. The summer contractors used our old shed/garage for all their sawing needs and for storing the materials. Despite having large garbage cans and a trailer for debris, there was a ton of cleanup to be done. Two hours of steady work and its once again ready to house our antique truck (btw - anyone interested in a '72 chevy p/u?? hehehehe). With all the work, I do have some minor (compared to the past levels) pain but that's okay too -- it just means I can spoil myself writing and resting all day.

Viv - even though I haven't sent much on my novel lately, I have been working on it or thinking about it every day again. I've been finding a lot of material on the world development angles. I have decided to go "off" planet so to speak. The primary difference will lie in the area of the society throughout the planet with only a few exceptions.

Now - its off to work for me. Everyone have a great day!!

Carol 10-14-2003 13:28

VIV --
I just sent you an email with your new password

howard 10-13-2003 23:45

MARK,

It was a great idea to move the religion topic. However, I will not go unless AMANDA goes with me.

Rhoda 10-13-2003 22:40

I'll take only a smidgen of credit for the Religion topic in WB. I only set up some equipment. HOWARD had the idea, and he followed through with the actual topic space.

Mark 10-13-2003 21:28

HOWARD & MARK: Good one with the religion board at the workbook.
I think it's a great idea.

Have discovered I'm allergic to penicillin, am now on another antibiotic which happens to have thrush as a potential side effect.
Oh goody.
Too much information? Probably.
Am beginning to think the cure is worse than the ailment.

going...

Teekay 10-13-2003 21:07

Hi guys,

I wanted to thank all who helped and encouraged me with my Ode. I got my grade back on it. With the intro and the close, coupled with the Ode, I did get a high mark. The highest mark I've gained to date. That is pretty cool :o)

Ciao for now.

RDRKO

Rachel 10-13-2003 20:34

Howard: Yup! That's exactly what I'm missing...along with my memory! Thanks for clarifying. I'm going too fast to think.

Viv 10-13-2003 20:14

HOWARD: me know not furphy. Perhaps to know furphy is to take up brain space which could be used for better things. :-D

JERRY: My moral side is frowning and my creative side is laughing.

back soon...


Teekay 10-13-2003 19:17

Hi i am 13 years old and one day i would love to have my website with alot of writng stuff. or another website could give me a section. i think alot of young people would love it so

Shawneyce 10-13-2003 17:48

OK, the religion forum has been opened on the workbook (thanks Mark) and we can move there if you like.
Lemme know if anyone has problems seeing it or writing to it.

VIV -- did you mean your workbook password?

howard 10-13-2003 11:29

Randall,
Glad to hear you liked them. Yup, probably they did have something to do with the rain. The weather here has been screwy too. Nothing like a couple of uncontained dolls on National Sports Day. They are only supposed to be displayed on Dolls Day...after January. The Samuri is for Boys Day only...sometime in April. Can't keep the dates straight in my head, so pardon the mess.

May as well enjoy them!

I'm dismayed that the glass broke in one case and the panel slid in on the other. I hope you can get them fixed. I don't know quite what to do since each box is unique to the doll inside.

Hope your wife didn't mind the ugly Samurai! My husband went for it immediately and I said, "Get the wife a girl doll because that is the ugliest thing I've ever seen."

I suggest to your wife that she place the Samurai somewhere behind the girl doll and enjoy looking at her.

I consider myself thanked and really Randall, the thanks is mine. Sorry to have been so slow about getting those thanks off. Found the student's letters on my table the other day...then they disappeared again (Along with the Japanese Kennel Club Official documents for the Dog...again) I've had the dog a year and he remains unregistered. I have a feeling that if I ever move I'm not going to have him registered...ever.

The good news. I've submitted all three years of teaching materials plus final exams to our department this week! That garbage is done for the term and it may be the last time I ever have to do that. (They may fire me after they read those "research papers" on Texas. Most of them were about Armadillos and the rest about Lone Star Beer. One on the wonderful wildflowers of Texas and the final statement was, "I want to go to see the wildflowers in the Fall." Groan!

I am also two weeks from the end of this online course in writing curriculum. Only one paper more to finish and I'll be back with the writing group.

My final word...get rid of those boxes fast. The dog did his best to water them down. He's not trained yet and it's been almost a year. He misses the boxes now, but is still "doing" the hallway.

Jack: I need my password! AGAIN! I can't enter our writing site.

Everyone including Carol: I miss you and I'm glad to see you are all still there. Wacko's from Norway excluded.

Viv 10-13-2003 10:34

Not much time to write or anything, 'cause I'm making emergency repairs to my water system. Now looks like I need to replace the pump, and it's 180 feet down in the well. That's a lot of pipe to pull. So I'll rent a powered puller.

Anyway, just took a break and checked my email. The AWAD (A Word A Day) newsletter chooses words for the seek, based on different topics. This week it's words originating in Australia. Thought it might be interesting here-- the first word is "furphy." TEEKAY probably knows it right off, but I'd never heard it.
Anyway, to get AWAD -- which has origin, usage, and pronunciation -- follow use the following:
To subscribe or unsubscribe, send
a message to wsmith@wordsmith.org with "Subject:" line as "subscribe "
or "unsubscribe". Archives, FAQ, gift subscription form, bulletin board,
and more at http://wordsmith.org/awad/

-------------------------
And I've not dropped out of the discussion on religion -- I've talked with Mark, and he's okayed moving it to the workbook, in order to not use up Jack's bandwidth for a topic that is not of interest to everyone here. Look for a new topic there soon.

Comments?


howard 10-13-2003 10:14

Teekay - reminds me of a true case I had years ago. There was this fellow who loved his drink. He loved it so much that he had a good share nearly every day. He lived a couple miles south of town down a narrow twisting road, and on one of his trips home, he rolled his Lincoln. When I got to the scene, he was out of the car and sitting atop the old car near the rear wheels. In his hand - A half empty fifth of Southern Comfort Whiskey. His explanation - "there was this dog" he said "Ran right out in front of my car and when I swerved to miss it, I lost control and rolled the car." Then he went on - "Well the whole thing shook me up so much I just had to have a drink, so I broke the seal on this fifth and drank this much before you got here."

There was, of course no way I could prove him wrong, I knew that he was probably dead drunk when he lost control of the car, and the story of a dog was a bit lame since there were no farms nearby, but one can check for alcohol content of the blood, breath, or urine, and the test would have indeed shown him drunk, but with no other witnesses, I had no way to prove he was driving drunk. Best I could do was to take him to the local hospital where they set his broken arm, then give him a ride home, where his wife waited, drink in hand.

Moral of the story - if your going to drive drunk, make sure you have a bottle along so you can have a couple of drinks after you wreck the car and before the cop arrives.

Well the real moral should be, of course, don't drink and drive but who listens to real morals anymore.

Oh, the drunk driver died a few months later from cancer but that is another story for another night.

Jerry 10-13-2003 0:39

This seems appropriate:

A woman and a man are involved in a car accident; it's a bad one. Both of their cars are totally demolished but amazingly neither of them are hurt.
After they crawl out of their cars, the woman says, "So you're a man. That's interesting. I'm a woman. Wow, just look at our cars, there's nothing left, but we're unhurt. This must be a sign from God that we should meet and be friends and live together in peace for the rest of
our days".

Flattered, the man replied, "Oh yes, I agree with you completely!"
"This must be a sign from God!" The woman continued, "and look at this, here's another miracle. My car is completely demolished but this bottle of wine didn't break. Surely God wants us to drink this wine and celebrate our good fortune."Then she hands the bottle to the man. The man nods his head in agreement, opens it and drinks half the bottle and then hands it back to the woman. The woman takes the bottle and immediately puts the cap back on, and hands it back to the man. The man asks, "Aren't you having any?"
The woman replies, "No. I think I'll just wait for the police...."

MORAL OF THE STORY: Women are clever, evil bitches. Don't mess with
them.

Teekay. 10-12-2003 19:42

Hi All,

ALL: On further reading I will now say read Journey of souls at your own risk.
I know, sounds scary, but it's not, it's just that some at this point may learn stuff they feel uncomfortable with. - Not that it's bad, just that they may have a pre-conceived idea of what the afterlife like.
Of course I'm not speaking to the sceptics here.

RHODA: I am so glad you're Christian :-)

RANDALL: Well said.

ALL: Lets give thanks for those overlooked blessings today,
like painfree swallowing.

Going...

Teekay 10-12-2003 19:32

RANDALL,

You put forth many logical arguments. I have never doubted your intelligence and common sense. All I really wished to say was that faith in Jesus Christ involves believing in something that doesn't always make a lot of sense from natural, human perception. As JERRY said, it is just faith.

But life and human beings do not always move along in logical progression. As far as Christianity being a newcomer on the scene, I am afraid I would have to dispute that. In terms of a religion, it is only about 2000 years old, relatively young, but not so for the Jewish religion, and in a strict sense, Christianity is really a form of Judaism. Moses, who wrote the first books of the Old Testament, lived about 3500 years ago, and Abraham lived over 4000 years ago. That makes Judaism older than Buddhism. I can't say about Hinduism. And if you read carefully in Genesis, one could say that Judaism is even older than Abraham, because Noah was a believer.

And as far as people getting saved before Jesus was born, they were saved by the hope of the savior who was to come. Jesus died for the sins of those who came before him as well as the sins of those who would come after. The Jews slaughtered a perfect unblemished lamb as an atonement of sins. Jesus is referred to as the lamb of God whose blood was shed for the sins of the world. As far a people who have never heard of God, I have no idea what happens to them. All I know is that God is just and that he will give them every chance to do what is necessary for their salvation. All I know is that Christians have been told to proclaim the gospel. And that is what I have always tried to do. I cannot save anyone from hell, and I cannot make anyone repent, but I can spread and proclaim the gospel. It is up to God and to the person I tell it to what to do with it.

All I was saying in my other post is that if you have trouble believing the O.T., you might have some problems believing that Jesus was born of a virgin and was raised from the dead. Perhaps I am wrong, and that is no problem for you. But in all due respect, I think you have had a lot of poor religious counciling in your past. Your questions were not that difficult.

I am only carrying on a dialogue. That is all I am doing. I do not think I work under desperation. I just have a great admiration, awe, and regard for the Bible, and I will defend it every opportunity. I just think, RANDALL, that you sell it short, as do many people.

But God does not need me to defend him and anything that is his. He will do it himself just as he will honor his covenant to Abraham and will preserve the nation of Israel.

Oh dear. With all these posts I have just disqualified myself to ever be President of the United States or to be a Supreme Court Justice. Man, do I have dangerous ideas.



Rhoda 10-12-2003 15:26

Is a young, london based theatre co seeking unpublished writers for the stage. Working on new pieces, works in progress and devising pieces from scratch. No payment but a great chance to work with industry professionals, get help with re-writes if needed and showcase your work. A collaborative, open minded environment.
Check out the website for more details.
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Cheeky Maggot Theatre Link 10-12-2003 14:37

Hi all,

Yikes! I don't know that I can keep up with this.

Amanda,

Read about three lines of your post. What a waste of my time.


ALL who posted to me,

I don't know when I will have time to reply and it seems that this whole issue has been done to death. I wonder if I should just leave things. I imagine I will. I have a new wondering though... If anyone really wants me to respond to their post tell me and I will. I wouldn't want to devalue any of the things said here, well, aside from that weirdness with Amanda.

What about the economy of fear? Have any of you ever wondered if the government generates fear in order to bolster the economy? I mean when we are afraid we want to feel better. A lot of people eat to feel better, a lot of people buy things to feel better, some people go out to moveies or sports events. All of puts money into the economy. Seems to me that there is a lot to be said for keeping people afraid. Do you know that stats say the crime has declined steadily, but if you watch the media you would think it has gone up, up and up over the top. We've got a huge case of the "Big Bad World" thing going on. I think that fear also motivates people to church and the church organizes people and when you have people who embrace the values of God, you've got a population who is going to behave, even if they are afraid. Yup, seems to be that economics of fear feeding are pretty real. What do you guys think?

Now I need to get to cooking, got the fam over this evening for Thanksgiving. Kind of a weird time for we Vegetarian folk ;o) Yup, I've got a big dead bird hanging out in my kitchen. I've all ready chased the kiddies around with it. I'm about all out of Turkey play. I guess its time to think about reaching inside that flesh ball to extract the gut bag. Maybe I can get rid of it before somebody tries to put it in the gravey... EWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!! Yup, nothing like a boiling pot of insides to make me want to eat up (grins and laughter).

Ciao for now.

RDRKO


Rachel 10-12-2003 13:53

Randall

Morning!

Rhoda...

My friend ... Do I detect a note of, oh, well, mild hysteria in your post of 10/11? (Grin) Never mind...I agree with most of your writing. As a young man I once asked a preacher what will happen to the people who lived before Jesus? Would they go to hell because they did not know of God? He thought for a minute and said, "They should have known better and lived their life according to God even without knowing of the teachings of Jesus." That is covering all your bases! That one could casually write off millions of people who had no knowledge of God and Jesus is amusing at best, distressing otherwise.

As a young man I once asked a preacher. "Where did God come from?" He replied. "From a prayer." "Who's prayer?" I asked? "You must have faith," he answered. I'm sorry, that old dog ain't gonna hunt. I'm too intelligent for that convoluted reasoning. I have faith in a lot of things but, most of all, God surely demands I, indeed we, seek out the truth. How else can I serve Him? Out of ignorance?

Rhoda, my thinking is geological along this line. (Faulty?) In that we cannot possibly appreciate or know what history conceals. We are limited by the relatively small time frame of this current age and the ego tainted belief that we are at the apex, the end result of thousands of years of a continuous, some feel, improving civilization. Whether this extends to a current religion is what we are searching for. Jesus is, for want of a better word, a newcomer in religious conviction. There were Gods worshiped thousands of years before Jesus ... historically self-evident and well documented. Were they all in error? Why didn't God step forward and put forth His plan 5,000 years ago? (Do citizens of Sumer sit in hell and think. "Damn, wish I had known better!") Or is this relative to the time frame aspect of religion? True all Gods may be the same, under different names. Should it be simply a matter of blind faith?

Not too long ago I came across an article that proclaimed there are two Gods in the bible. The Old Testament God and the God in the new. It does seem that the God of Abraham was a more hands on kinda God, albeit of little patience...while the God of Jesus seemed to deal in forgiveness rather than taking out whole cities, via ark and trumpet. But then the bible, the foundation of our religion, may not be all that accurate in the first place? Search on we go. Perhaps it all comes down to that old cover all word ... faith. I have faith in God and Jesus. Is that all we need?

That old enemy of Gods, time, always moves forward. Will the God we worship now be a historical footnote 5,000 years from now? Not much more than Zeus sitting on Mount Olympus wondering ... what happened? Will humans, granted if any are around, worship a deity unlike anything we can imagine? ZEUS ... RETURNS! After all, if history has proved anything, it is that Gods come and go. Ask the Greek Gods or Gods of Egypt and Sumer about the span as a deity. It is soul food for our ego that we worship the one, true God, while ancient civilizations worshiped trees and rocks. We know better, ego food. This short-sightness is heavy baggage we carry.

It becomes clearer if we believe that God evolves with humans. Matures with the flock? Maybe God has to go through learning processes as well? Handling the prayers of ancient Egyptian citizens might be a little different from 21'st century Americans. (I'll bet the internet has God scratching His head. Or shaking Gabriel's shoulder and handing him THE trumpet!) However, if one factors in Karma, then humans and Gods exist life by life in a finite search for perfection. Say what? (GRIN) Oh, but I do believe in God and Jesus. But like the teacher he was I expect Jesus would want I ask questions, seek the truth. And so I shall keep raising my hand in class.

Yes, the establishment of Israel has come...but not for long. No, no war or anything like that. But the simplest function of life...procreation will eventually determine who really owns this beach front property. In a short time, 50 years or so there will be more persons of Arab descent and the religion of Mohammed in Israel than Jews. The Jewish government will simply be voted out of office and persons diametrically opposed to them take control. What will happen then? Is there an allusion in the bible that covers general elections?

Jerry...I too wish Rush all the best. I am aware of what he is going through. My wife has fought chronic pain for years and a bottle if Hydrocodone is always at hand. Her doctor keeps her on a well-regulated prescription. She has attended three pain clinics and they didn't help.

Randall

Randall 10-12-2003 11:33

Goodbye

Stay away from the Bizaro world, where normal is the norm and nazis have been thrown from our midst.

Ok just kidding. Boy the wiredos have been visiting at great length.

Gotta say, I listened to Rush Friday when he announced his addiction to pain killers. I can see where one could become addicted to them following a failed back surgery (happened to me back in '93). It was only the fact that I have very caring doctors, and the very careful administration of some very strong pain medicine that keeps me from joining him in his dry out center.

I was happy to see that Rush did the right thing, in admitting his problem and seeking the long needed help in getting off the pain pills. I can only hope that he finds relief in the hospital, and finds some way to help his back pain. There are many new products that help without the use of narcotics, including electro stimulation and the pump. I can see where one could say, "why hasn't he tried those things?" but as you probably know doctors are hesitant to explore new (well not that new) means of pain management. I have to bring the ideas to my present doctor before he explores them and decides if they will indeed be of any good in my case, and I'm sure that Rush has had the same experience. Many doctors don't understand pain, and fail to refer those in pain to the necessary clinics where help is available.

At any rate, there's my thoughts on Rush.

As far as all the religion discussion floating about, the last word, or should I say the first word in any religion is FAITH, we all have our own beliefs, and I doubt that any two individuals have exactly the same belief in their god and their religion.

Jerry 10-12-2003 1:26

TEEKAY,

I hope you get the help you need and feel better soon.

I have no problem looking at your JOURNEY OF SOULS book. I will see if the local library has a copy. I could probably get it on interlibrary loan if necessary.

I applaud the female Iranian human rights lawyer winning a Nobel Peace Prize. That is the best award they have given in years. A person who risks jail and worse for defending the rights of women and children has my admiration.

AMANDA,

I do not pretend to have read all of your post. It was too long, and what little I read was really sick. I am probably wasting my time addressing a post to you, because I have a feeling that you are not really into dialogue. You have never introduced yourself. You have never put your posts into any reader-friendly form. If you had taken the time to read anything the rest of us had written, you would have known that none of us post in German.

If you ever come back and actually read something that someone else has written, then tell us what you personally know of Zionists or anything else.

I only have addressed this issue, because I remember some previous chat rooms years ago when Muslim fundamentalists would invade dropping off their copy/pasted words of hate and would not even bother to answer questions or to elaborate on anything. Are all you just a bunch or arrogant, mindless drones?

Surprise me, AMANDA, if you dare. Next time you cruise by, say something that would indicate that behind all that dribble you are a human being.

Rhoda 10-11-2003 21:24

Sorry about that, TEEKAY. Actually that part of the post was generic. I was not really addressing you directly, though I could see that it might appear so.

Where are all these strange posts coming from? First the Nazi, anti-Semetic stuff and then the diamond seller.

Rhoda 10-11-2003 19:00

Hi All,

HOWARD: It's gotten worse. Now I practically need a general anaesthetic in order to swallow. Am definitely dragging myself to the Dr.'s today.

# on my phone means hash.

Probably not what you're looking for though.

Has the new arrival arrived?

RANDALL: I have one of those brother in laws too.

RHODA: You wrote: The first step to coming to God is realizing your need of him. Admit you don't have all the answers. Then you have to be willing to accept him just as he reveals himself to you, acknowledging him as your creator and the one who knows the hearts and minds of every human being who ever lived.

Was this directed particularly to me or was the use of the word 'you' a generalised version?

If it was directed at me I can only assume that you have not read my posts in their entirety.

And God's existence was never the issue.

Honestly, if you can get your hands on 'Journey of souls' read it.
I don't want to harp on about it too much, but it is one of those books that can change your life. And reading it won't harm your relationship with Christ - it will enhance it.

P.S. From incoming information I discard the idea that all souls are created perfect.


That explains a lot.
like my Brother in law for instance :-D

Going......
to the Doctor to get some dru-u-u-u-gs!!!



Teekay 10-11-2003 18:36

RHODA: I looked at what you said about thinners, and solvents, and what-not, and I had to dismiss the cleaning the windows one :-} He's not the one being blinded anyway. But the problem is, the story's gotten out of hand--it's finished, but I want to trim it down a couple of thousand words...or maybe more. I do want to use the ammonia. I think it can be used as a thinner if that's the desired effect the artist is looking for...

ben 10-11-2003 15:56

Ibrahim - yes, we all have zips up the back of our heads.

10-11-2003 14:05

am writing to a deal of bilateral interest and mutual benefit. I am
Ibrahim Ciroma an agent and consultant of the local farmers in west africa
Where large quantities of GOLD and DIAMOND are available.The price are
Cheaper than the price in international marketing. I obtained your contact
from the internet and was inspired to consult you for this business which I do
hope will be of great interest to us.

Do not hesitate to contact me through the above phone or e-mail to
Indicate your interest or if not interested in this proposal, please do
solicit for a buyer for me and upon your recommendation of
a prospective buyer, you shall retain 5% commission of the sales.

Commodities available are as follows:
Gold A.U. dust of 22
carats.
Quantity : 185 Kg
Purity : 98% (22 carats)
Price : USD $ 6,000.00 / Kg
Certificates to be issued with trench delivery:
(A) Certificate of origin
(B) Certificate of ownership

All the above documents / certificates are to be sent to the buyer.

SYSTEM OF TRADING
After confirmation and testing of the goods, part payment will be
made here while the balance shall be paid 48 hours after delivery at the
country of your designated choice.

yours faithfully,
Ibrahim Ciroma



Ibrahim Ciroma 10-11-2003 12:34

Randall

Amanda...you're an idiot. Jack...do your thing. Rhoda I will post my reply laster on. Bozo has just proved that all the squirrels aren't in the trees.

R

Randall 10-11-2003 12:04

NOBEL CHARLATANRY=SCIENTICAL MASKED MULTI-FUNCZIONAL PROSTITUTION of JUDAIZED IMPERIALISM..(This Saga begins with the English language version)

- Wow!.. I didn't understand, Sir!..
- This is a saga, not a bonbon, therefore it's not so easy to understand just at first suck!... The Saga on the Satellite Kingdoms' stinky culture//Ridiculous and contemptible attitudes of the Nobel shurks&Corrupted Bastards of lobbies&Mammeles of degradation&freak doggies of the Zionist Imperialist ignominy.
- I am beginning to understand...
- You see!.. Call the matters only with their true names, simply!.. - ?!

**
- An advocate, false muslim Mammele Shirin EBADI won peace prize and a writer
false Humanist J. COETZEE on literature... - Also, you mean, the
Scandinavian Nobel commitees prized a jurist and a writer?.. - Yes!.. But what
is strange, Sir? - Well, I know a true Humanist Jurist and Writer, since
15 years he lives in Scandinavia, works for Human Rights but never get a job,
nor been accepted to an official project, interviews... This true lawyer, Human
Rights fighter systematical discriminated and still under heavy oppression...
- Incredible!.. What did he? - Nothing!.. Before 15 year he wrote a
little poem, there he criticized the anti-humanist issues and perhaps meaned to
protest the occupation on the occupied Middle East.. - Perhaps? -
Perhaps, means "definitely" according to the talmudic fanatism... And I searched
his poems, foun only on one single line expressed that "my heart is my gift to
the children of Palestine/use it my little heroes, throw it at least like a
stone"... - And than? - Well, he just been registrated by the
Zionist lobbies of Sweden... Theses ridiculous lobbies already manipulating the
authorities against this braveheart human... The chiefs of suh lobbies have
main assertion that when an academician criticizes the anti-Humanist attitudes
it means such perspective is potentially danger against the Zionist
Imperialism... - What!.. Millions of human and whole civilization are the
danger against barbarity.. Is it wrong? - We can not discuss so open
if that wrong or not.. But therefore can other kind of types never nominees to
such prizes... - ?! - You looks like chocked, Sir!..
- You'll be more chocked when I say what I think now!.. - Say!..
- Ia m fuc'king such Nobel committee bastards!.. I am fuc'king your Mammele
Peace Ebadi and Jabotinsky male whore CuteZee, at least you, too!.. - ?!
**
- What are you thinking on JM COETZEE? -He is very clever falsificator,
uses humanitarian masks but he is a lapdog of the world domination of Zionst
Imperialism&Talmudian fascism... Coetzee is wporking nowadays at Chicago
university for "Bran Washing" process. - But the officially resources
describe an other figure as Coetzee... We have a short documentary clip, on
such cases..... - Let's watch your example!.. - Endangered
Species: Jews and Buffaloes, Victims of Nazi Pseudo-science... By Frank Fox:
The author visited the Warsaw zoo in the late 1980s to trace the story of Jews
saved in animal cages and in 1999 went to Bialowieza, where the last of the
noble zubr (buffalo) can be seen. Few creatures are more helpless in time of war
than zoo animals and their plight is generally ignored when, understandably, the
human casualties are of greater concern. While we do not have to agree with the
anthropomorphic view expressed by J. M. Coetzee in his The Lives of Animals,
which conflates the sufferings of animals with the horrors of concentration
camps, we should not fail to see how cruelties inflicted by humans on animals
diminish all life. - I don't know the Warszaw Zoo animals thinking like
COETZEE but I witnessed the Coalition troops in Baghdad zoo, they shot the
animals, unique tiger art and other magnífique animals... This is a living
history and a chance to compare with Jrewish propaganda illusion arts and the
true Holocaust... - Nobel committee prized a liar? - Again!..
It looks like the Imre Kertész case.. - I don't think so.. This case is
little different and performed freakness. Scandinavian Zionist lobbies paying
thanksgiving to South African lobby, too... - Thanksgiving between
gangsters? - Definitely.. Remember, please, South African leagues
agitated to the "cleansing operations".. - Example?.. -
These shurks coopertared to cleanse Olof PALME, if you wish hear very clear
example... - Incredible!.. PALME murdered in 1986 but this South African Zionist
get prize new, in 2003. - Professional business.. They are not so
idiotics who will run to mouse-trap.. Today the children get homework,
obligatory to buy Coetze and Imre Kertesz's propaganda book who were in the
mothers' stomach.. Such "brain washing" lambs can not know what PALME said but
exactly repeate what the Nobel prized shurks say... - After all these
years... We have not su much to do... - Perhaps only one word;
"Incredible"... - Incredible foolish.. - Foolish!..
Traditionally Talmudian imperialism absorbed the culture wealthy of all the
close sattellites.. Sweden won this word as a label on such cultur...

**
- What does NOBEL-prize scandal mean? Does the "Intellectual Scientical
Morality" decide take legal proceedingt against thus enormous fraud and such
manipulative foundations?
- Well, in fact NOBEL PRIZE COMMITTEE shurks connected with the ZIONISM (JEWISH
FASCISM)&any kind of halfoffical fraud LOBBIES, possessed Swedish institutions,
like a legalized coup in the European Union...
- But you are talking on the measures... I have no idea!...
- What is the intellectual responsibilty in this case?
- Maybe to try a Laponian perspective, a kind of essay on the Svekish Model
Culture-...
- Do it, Sir!

**

- Let's get started! Watch please all these video tapes, so you'll understand
that there is no culture in Svekja Kingdom!...
- I watched the first 40 episodes in the EMI studios and I agree with you!..
Although we in SvekJa don't dub our films or series as they do in Germany,
France or Italy (just for an example), we do subtitle them. So, this is the
version that is being subtitled. Animaniacs is called Anima-Dårpippi in SvekJa
Kingdom, which could be translated "Animated Lunatics". The translation is made
by Svek-state Television (SVT) which is the Public Broadcasting Network in
SvekJa Kingdom.
- Here is Svekish Culture; I know; Swedo Animaniacs is a symbol of halfofficial
culture propagand theme;
Swedo Amimaniacs
nu kommer Animaniacs/
vi är knäppiga till max /
skratta på er får ni strax/
sitt ner, för det är dags /
för Animaniacs /
vi är två Warner-bröder och en Warner-syster, Dot/
Filmstaden vi rusar runt och hittar jämt på nåt /
de låser gärna in oss /
när vi i fällan gått /
men varje bur vi tar oss ur/
det har ni nog förstått/
se Animaniacs /
se här Dot och Yakko strax/
Wakko äter gravad lax /
när motherfucker Jew Bill Clinton spelar sax/
till Animaniacs/
här är två andra polare som jämt vill sticka opp /
och duvorna får akta sig, nu får de en sittopp /
jakten går på Mindy /
och Rita drar en vals/
författarna har kollat /
varför ska vi repa alls?/
se Animaniacs /
ni kan nå oss med ett fax/
vi är knäppiga till max /
knäppigast i vår galax /
vi är så balla /
ja, det tycker alla/
ni får oss kalla /
Animaniacs /
nu är det dags!

- What does it mean?
- It shows, what kind of culture these "decompsed systems" pumping to the new
generations...
- Interpretation, please!
- Welcome, Sir! English translation from Svekish language, here;
Svekian Amimaniacs it's time for Animaniacs
/
we are zany to the max /
you'll be laughing in a while/
sit down, for now it's time /
for Animaniacs/
we are two Warner brothers and a Warner sister, Dot/
around the movie town we run around and we always hit upon something/
they gladly lock us in /
whenever we get trapped/
but from every cage, we get out/
I'm sure you figured that out/
watch Animaniacs /
look, here's Dot and Yakko at once/
Wakko eats gravlax /
when motherfucker Jew Bill Clinton plays the sax/
to Animaniacs/
here are two other buddies who always want to stick up/
and the pigeons have to watch out, now they'll get whacked/
the chase goes on Mindy /
and Rita makes a waltz /
the writers have kicked the bucket/
why should we rehearse at all? /
watch Animaniacs /
you can reach us with a fax/
we're zany to the max /
the zaniest in the galaxy/
we are so nifty/
yes, everybody thinks so/
you may call us/
Animaniacs (*) !/
now it's the time!

(*) Some words have been slighty altered, like the one for "zany" which is
"knäppiga". This adjective is inflected incorrecly, just to make it sound weird.
This is the poem in today's SvekJa Kingdom... Estimate why Nobel prize goes
mostly to the untalented Jews...
- You mean such ridiculous culture attitude, such awards as product
of process!.. But culture is not only literature...
- Of course!.. Therefore I have any living records from overclass who live a
modernized violence as culture life... For instance Pedophilia is a part of this
culture...
- We want to watch all these living cassettes and listen to the other records...
But who will translate all these evidences? Do you translate these records, too?
We don't know Svekish languae!
- Okay!.. Let's go!... Start!.. Listen to the dialog and answer my questions...
- Well, we listened a programme..."Western finance captal culture been built on
violences"... Original label was "Väster(finanskapital marknad)s kultur bygs på
våld(täckta); FM broadcast on June 30, 2000 - I rememeber...
- Me too, Nicolas Poussin var som berättat om vålds kultur och den traditionella
kulturens samröreprofiter...
- Explain shortly, please; I understand your language!
- Det talas först om våldbilder... Våldtäkten på sabinskorna, Metropolitan
Museum of Art, Jew York. Den första målningen som skildrar en gruppvåldtäkt.
Mats Deland om den härskande klassens makt och den äkta mannens Den här bilden
skildrar en av världshistoriens mest berömda gruppvåldtäkter, med motiv ur
mytologin om staden Roms grundläggning. När de första romarna inte kunde finna
fruar på vanligt sätt överföll de grannfolket sabinerna. De sabinska kvinnorna
tvingades bära romarnas barn och kallas ännu Roms urmödrar. Myten lever och
apostroferas i italiensk giftermålsetikett. En staty med samma namn, Våldtäkten
på sabinskorna, restes på 1580-talet på Piazza della Signoria i Florens,
Poussins tavla målades femtio år senare. I mitten av målningen strosar en
romare lugnt bort från händelsernas larm, vänligt samtalande med den sabinska
han överfallit. Att kvinnan efter en första
upprördhet skulle komma att finna sig i sitt öde är en viktig del av den
föreställningsvärld som ännu bestämmer synen på våldtäkter. Motivet saknar alla
uttryckliga tecken på samlag. Det latinska begreppet för våldtäkt, raptus, hade
ingen omedelbar sexuell laddning; det handlade snarare om stöld av ett slags
egendom. På bilden bärs kvinnorna iväg som vilket byte som helst. Att vi i
förgrunden ser en far, inte en make eller bror som förtvivlat försöker betvinga
en romersk angripare, markerar också den patriarkala kontrollen. Poussins
minutiöst avvägda komposition är ett exempel på vad som brukar kallas heroiska
våldtäktsskildringar. De finns i den västerländska kulturens absoluta centrum:
antika och bibliska motiv, skildrade under en av västerlandets kulturella
höjdpunkter, renässansen och dess fortsättning i klassicism och barock. Även
sentida konsthistoriker har intagit en märkligt förstående attityd. Motivet ovan
kallas vanligen Sabinskornas bortförande, och ord som förförelse, amorösa
utfall, förföljande, extas och till och med kärlek har också använts. Men den
amerikanska konstprofessorn Diane Wolfthal, vars läsning jag återger ovan, visar
i sin bok Images of Rape, The "heroic" tradition and its alternatives (Cambridge
UP 1999) att dessa förskönande våldtäktsskildringar långtifrån var oemotsagda.
Konstverk av det här slaget gjordes naturligtvis av män för män, och åtminstone
från början av 1500-talet var ett av syftena att stimulera erotiskt. De gömdes
som porr i den rikaste adelns privatsamlingar. Men framför allt handlade det om
makt: den härskande klassens och den äkta mannens. Det var hjältens privilegium
att våldföra sig på fiendens kvinnor, och mannens att betrakta kvinnan som sin
(inte hennes släkts) egendom. Detta sätt att framställa övergrepp stod i bjärt
kontrast till den tidigare epokens bilder. De medeltida skildringarna saknar de
erotiserande detaljerna. Däremot visades ibland samlaget, men då kopplat till
symboliska uttryck både för det våld som var förutsättningen för, och följderna
av, övergreppet: offrets förtvivlan och fysiska eller psykiska utplåning. Ofta
finns i dessa bilder – oftast bildserier – även skildringar av hur förövaren
straffas för sitt dåd och till och med samhällskritik. Ibland är det prästfolk
som våldtar, vilket var ett omdiskuterat problem under högmedeltiden. Denna
tradition fick en mindre känd fortsättning under renässansen och framöver, i de
folkliga träsnitt som visade följderna för vanligt folk av 1500- och 1600-talens
krig med värvade massarméer. Här är utförandet enkelt, i svart och vitt, och det
finns inget i bilderna som rättfärdigar de plundrande hjältarnas dåd.
Kvinnokroppar visas aldrig helt avklädda, deras klädsel är
oordnad enbart för att markera utsattheten. Den medeltida traditionen var
ambivalent när det gällde rätten att våldta tjejer i fiendeland, men byggde ändå
anmärkningsvärt ofta på ett tydligt ställningstagande för det kvinnliga offret.
Bilder i kyrkliga källskrifter och lagsamlingar bekräftar det. Boken om
kvinnornas stad, av den medeltida skriftställerskan Christine de Pizan (1363-ca
1430), ägnar tre kapitel åt att diskutera våldtäkter. de Pizan invänder där mot
den medeltida föreställningen att den våldtagna tjejen, om hon skulle bli trodd,
måste bevisa att hon skrikit ut sin förtvivlan över nejden. Likaså kritiserar
hon den kyrkliga åsikten att tjejer som våldtagits borde ta sitt liv i
förtvivlan. Mest intressant är hennes omskrivning av legenden om den Galatiska
drottningen, berättad av Boccaccio. Drottningen hade tillsammans med sitt
sällskap rövats bort och våldtagits av sin kidnappare. I ett obevakat ögonblick
lyckades hon få en av sina tjänare att halshugga våldtäktsmannen – vars huvud
hon senare förärade sin make. Detta var ett för tiden tydligt exempel på att
tjejer kan inte bara överleva en våldtäkt, utan även hämnas på förövaren. I de
Pizans version, illustrerad under hennes överinseende, är budskapet än tydligare
i och med att drottningen själv utför dekapiteringen (att våldtäkten skulle vara
vanhedrande för offret är en föreställning som inte ens de Pizan lyckas frigöra
sig från). Det var knappast heller någon slump att den förövare av ett sexuellt
övergrepp som oftast avbildades i äldre tid var den ur första Mosebok hämtade
Potifars hustru. Hon påstås som bekant först ha misslyckats med att förföra
Josef, Jakobs och Rakels son, för att sedan med en falsk våldtäktsanklagelse ha
fått honom kastad i fängelsehålorna. Även dessa föreställningar, om fresterskan
och den påhittade våldtäktsanklagelsen, återfinns i själva hjärtat av det
västerländska kulturarvet.
- Det blev grund att atarta en debatt i SvekJa Kingdom om relationerna...
- Which one?
- Many... Massor... exempelvis vikinga regler full fart aktuellt fortfarande...
Pedofiler gynnas... Pedofiler anställs av officiella kretsar exempelvis
kurdosionistiska pedofil förrädaren Abit Dundar... Hans landsman den ökända
neo-sionistiska organisatören Nedim Dagdeviren och liknande rörelserna...
- Satellite regime's made an awful boob!.. - Whor are the really behind
this neo-liberal labeled WC?.. I continue in Svekish, menas, vem som står bakom
sådana kriminella?.. Jag har studerat fallet och upptäckt att mestadels af
kulturella falsifikationer ligger en enorm lobbyverksamhet som bedrivs
storskalligt direkt från Tel Aviv&Jew York.. Speciellt i dagens läge visar dessa
kretsar mäktigare ut, tyvärr! De experimenterade och fixade massa instruktioner.
Det är skrämmande att allt kan utnyttjas i samhället om bara dessa hororo vill
exempelvis fraudbenägna medlemmarna i Nobel-prize liknande stiftelserna...
- Corruption? - Both!.. Om man ger pengar till någon riskerar
ifrågasättas om korrupption.. Men om man betalar samma belopp till ett samröre
som maskerad i form av stiftelse samverkan blir det legalt, undviker ligan att
betala skatt och sådana detaljer som bonus...
- OK!.. I understand... You mean, the oligarchical foundations work like any
kind of the legalized fraudulent instruments...
- Definitely!
- I wish listen more... Go on, please!...
**

- It was the second time since 1991 the academy gave the award to a South
African. In 1991, it awarded the prize to another Jewish porpagandist, Nadine
Gordimer. - Feeling of indebtedness... Swedish evangelian zionist power feel
deeply thanksgving by South African collaboration all of operations... The prize
includes a check for more than $1.3 million, but it can also bestow the added
advantage of increased sales, celebrity and admiration. Hora C Engdahl, the
permanent secretary of the academy, said the decision was an easy one. But it's
scandal that this time again discovered that commission members didn't read any
book of Coetzee.. Coetzee, pronounced Cute-SEE'-uh, exposed that Swedish shurk
elite has more time for absolute votha instead of literature...
**
- We think in generalities...
- ...but we live in detalis.
- ...and a lot of people understand nothing, like me!
- ?!

** - Do you translate it, too? Man can't understand
this strange Svekish languae!
- Okay!.. Let's continue with the sponsors issue!
- Varför den lobbyverksamheten övertygar de hjälporganisationerna att supporta
de förrädiska kriminella immigranters falska kulturella centra?
- Exempel?
- Byggdes Kurdish Library, men neo-sionistiska grupper utbildas där i
verkligheten..
- We didn't know!..
- Watch this documentary clip, please; after then we can continue to explain!
- Start, Sir!
- Original label å nakna sanningar formaterats såhär: "E.U. under Zionist
conspiracy"; any chosen Democratical E.U. institutes been targeted... Financial
Criminal Lobbies&dirty affairs&collaborators...
www.Kurdinfo.com/ sympatisörer framlägger bevis om s.k. the financial
collaborative lobbies/concept " i samarbete med översättnings hjälp av
frivilliga hos UNITY: http://myweb.vector.ch/dnthines/home.htm

**

- I understand better!... It looks like a worldwide connection like an half
official liberalized whore culture... Oligarchie uses liberal gloves...
- That is right!... Therefore the estalishmnet needs Nobel-prizes and corrupted
professur chairs for enormous camuflage of the pedophilia and similarly
scandals...

** - Organization "E.U. for the people" . just
reported that E.U. in Crisis!
- Unfortunately; yes, it is !.."
- That is right!... Like Comrade Rojev pointed; "Det bekräftas av olika kretsar
t. ex. ROJEV konstaterat att Krisen fördjupas på grund av konfrontationen
mellan EU&sionistika ockupations gänget/ samt provokation och korruption osv
använts som vapen -full coverage/updated pages... Varning om judiska
provokatörligor i Australia&SvekJa Kingdom som beväpnar kriminella fanatiker bl.
a. kurdiska smugglare/urkundsförfalskare... Folkcentrum-o. Folkhögskolan
Skeppsholmen's vänner informerar i samarbete med Kurdinfo...
- What does Kurdinfo mean?
- Yes!... This organization has been two different organizations, the true DDKD
revolutionaries and the false heroes who accepted work for Zionist leagues...
- Let's listen to dialogs!..
- Det betyder att det är inte hela svenska folket utan s k
sionistisk-fascistiska provokatörer som prisar de falska flyktingarna som
manipulerat Migrationsverket (legaliserade korruptionsgänget) och andra mutade
myndigheter, hävdar Keya Izol (Nedim Dagdevirens förre detta "bästa" vännen).
Den kriminella tjuven Nedim Dagdeviren som hävdade att vara kurdisk flykting och
fått uppehällstillstånd Det stämmer inte, avslöjar tjuvens närmaste f.d. vännen
Keya Izol, bryter banan nu... Nu fick de en extra affärslokal som har skylten
"Kurdiska bibliotek" på Skeppsholmen ö (!) där bara förrädiska kurder och
MoSSad's svenska medlemmar möts istället för läsare...
- Skrattretande! Komplexive relationen å scenen...
- Yes!... Baltics' corrupt-addicted leagues work for NATO and Scandinavian
Jewish financial authorities fishing these easy going fishes... They need the
well camouflaged cultural centers, foundations like false library settled in
Skeppsholmen...
- Skeptiskholmen?!..
- I agree with you... They explain it on the former links:
http://www.marebalticum.se/index.htm
- Skämtskylten "Kitêbxaneya Kurdî" menas "Bibliotek". lurar
myndigheterna, men det kan inte lura eller locka folket p.g.a. stället är
utanför city-centrum, ligger på en ö, viktigaste orsaken är det saknas böcker
där inte bara Judisk Krönika eller andra propagand materiell som Menorah. "
"Birêvebirîya komeleyê ji van kesan pêk tê: serok Kalli Klement, sekreter Ove
Rådberg, muhasîb Lisa Nordström, endam Eugen Schoulgin, Marie-Hélène Boccara,
Suzanne Osten û Birgitta Wallin, Per Ahlmark, Cordelia Edvardson, Jackie
Jacubowski och (adopted criminal Hirvatian&Ethiopian Jew, in the prison
nowadays) Jackie Arklöv med flera i detta Kitêbxaneya Kurdî", säger i sitt
språk. Expanderar genom hjäp av välsorterad kollaboratorer av judiska
insamlingen:
http://www.ijk-s.se/svejud/sejud.htm
- Neo Fascist Zionist, vad som låter väldigt smart uppfinning att
samla pengar av både lättlurade stackare flyktingar och godtrogna svenska
folket. Vart tog vägen då 8 miljoner kronor som direkt hamnade Nedims händer???
Ingen visste!?.. Varför den Framtidens kultur stiftelsen så förtegen om detta?
Kanske har de ingen am´ning om varandras adresser eller telefonnummer då bör man
tillägga här:
Kitêbxaneya Kurdî , Skeppsholmen, Stockholm, tel 00.46.8.679 88 03 och fax
00.46.8. 679 88 04. Stiftelsen framtidens kultur, Glunten, 751 83 Uppsala, tel.
00.46.18. 17 19 40 och fax 00.46.18. 17 19 41, plus den kända
urkundsförfalskaren judisk-fanatiska propagandsbrottslingen, (efterlyst i Polen)
Julian Iljitzki, Djäknegatan 91, 754 25 Uppsala; Kristian Gerner, one other
famous bastard of Zion clan, Historieförfalskare i Institutionen för
östeuropastudier, Uppsala Uni., Gamla Torget 3, Box 514, 751 20 Uppsala. Phone:
0.46.18.4710000 Fax 00.46.18.106397. mm. Dessa enögda fascister som bildat det
falska Kitêbxaneya Kurdî, eller s.k. Zionistiska församlingens andra platsen som
ligger på Slupskjulsvägen 26, 111 49 Stockholm... Varför då på en ö?... Såhär
många rika judar skulle inte kunna fixa en riktig läsesalen i stan? Eller hur?
Det är otroligt för att äkta kurdiska bibliotekets säte är Frankrike som funnits
i legala bibliotekens filialakatalogen såhär:Bibliothèque??? Jo, det finns ett
riktigt legalt " European Kurdish Library" i Paris:
http://www.institutkurde.org/ikpweba/biblio/bib.htm "Kurdish Library of
Neo-Zionists" i Stockholm är ett ren falskt, provocativt samröre, uppger de
oberoende källlorna genom citera lite av det europeisk-kurdiska biblioetekets
pampfletter: "Catalogue of books available at the Paris Kurdish Institute's
Library over 6.000 titles listed by FileMaker data base. The Kurdish Institute
maintains the largest Kurdish library in the Western world. At present
it possesses 6,423 monographs on the Kurds, in 23 languages, several tens of
thousands of writings, collections of periodicals and newspapers, photos, videos
as well as an archive of sounds and musical recordings. Address of this legal
Kurdish Library: Fondation reconnue d'utilité publique 106, rue La Fayette,
75010 Paris. Tél. : 00.33.1.48 24 64 64 - Fax : 00.33.1 48 24 64 66 Other
contact possibilities on: http://www.fikp.org E-post:
ikp@fikp.org ... ... Neo-Nedim som förnyat sin bostad också. Här är den extra
lägenhets address: Nedîm Dagdeviran Per Lindeströms väg 76, 121 46 Johanneshov
Tel. 00.46.8. 556 223 23 eller Tel. & fax 00.46.8. 556 224 24 Första adressen
har blivit kvar i katalogen som tillhör första frun (tel: 00.46.8. 774 73 54;
fax: 00.46.8. 711 0836 ) som låtsas-skilda att få något sort extra bidrag av de
svenska korrumperade myndigheterna. ... ... Nedims
"outlawed son" har den tredje lägenheten också under förfalskade uppgifter och
tävlar med pappan genom fusk t.ex. "Invandrarföreningen" osv. Han heter Mehmet
Tayfun som använder f.d. mammans efternamn, Tayfun, (code name is: Malmisanij in
the occupied Middle East. Malmisanij has been wanted both in Syria, Armenia and
Irak...) bor i Spånga, driver den låtsas verksamheten författarföreningen,
Hyppingeplan 21, 163 62 Spånga Tel 00.46.8. 760 69 38 Projekt: Sionisternas
Hatikva-samröre Framtidens dominerande kultur stiftelsen betalade 30 000 kr som
första symboliska delen av tjänsten för att korrumpera vissa lättköpta
kriminella varelser. Summan betalades i handen av Nedim Dagdeviren i Uppsala.Det
blev ju bara driskgeld p.g.a. efteråtfått han otroliga bidrag av olika
sionvänliga kretsar bl.a. statens (vilka krafternas stat) kulturråd osv. Den
ökända tjuven Nedim Dagdeviren som blivit anställd (ordförande, utan
bibliotekarieutbildning) i det påhittighetens mästarverk mötesplatsen. Det är
en samlingslokal och handlingsplats i verkligheten. De förrädiska kurderna som
huvudaktörer hos människosmugglarna, verksamma judiska kretsarnas all smutsiga
affärer som driver ett extra reservkontor i denna byggnaden. Den är judiska
samröregängets hemsida som avslöjar att hur det kontraktet finansierats i
början: Neo-Zionist Nedim avslöjar sitt kriminella förflutet, erkänner att hotas
av minst 10-års fallande dömar både i Turkiet, Syria och Iraq. Avslöjan läsas på
Internet: http://www.dds.se/dms/50ar/print3_4.htm
Enligt hans egen version; "Bakgrund: Nedîm Dagdeviren, född 1953 i
Bismil-Kurdistan. Jag var medlem i det kurdiska ungdomsförbundet DDKD. När domen
på tio års fängelse föll, hade vi flytt över gränsen till Syria. Därifrån kom vi
till Sverige. Det var 1983. Ordet är vår själ. I Turkiet försvarade jag det när
det förbjöds, spred det när det undanhölls." Lögn, lika listig som Elie
Wiesel!.. Hans version har brist till sanna orsaker och den här är sanningen:
Den kriminella tjuven lurade svenska myndigheter bl.a. Invandrarverket. Turkiska
oberoende källor bl.a. hans f.d. bästa vän Keya uppger att han fängslades aldrig
trots han han hävdar att han fick straff i tio år. Han anklagades för stöld,
plundring av armeniernas kvarvarande förmögen, mordsförsök osv. Alla dessa
händelser visar sig att han ljugit om politiska motivet vad som ligger i hans
pärm hos f.d. Invandrarverket. Han flydde till Syrien 1983. I samma år begick
han liknande brott där och flytt vidare till Europa genom förfalskade papper,
pass, intyg. Sverige som var ett enda landet som accepterade den kriminiella
tjuven och medföljande gruppen som "nysvenskar"!!! Nedim Dagdeviren fick tur
att få jobb trots han aldrig studerade i Turkiet som skulle utbildas till
bibliotekarie osv d.v.s. hans betyg var också förfalskade som alla andra
skurkaktiga medföljande tjuvar. Skurken är ordförande i biblioteket och hans
kålsupare driver liknande centrumet i Uppsala som förråder vårt land. Keko Izol
har mycket att avslöja men denne medlöparens (andra klass förfalskare-judevän)s
språk räckte inte... (Ni får ju publicera denna info. på något sätt... Mvh.
Gunilla P.) ... ... .... SvekJa Kingdom har massor kurdiska föreningar som
mestadels inte kunnig om vad sionistiska faran betyder, hur de kollabortorna
åtgärdas? Någon borde informera dessa lurade kurdmedlemmar:
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Borlänge Sturegränd 11, 784 32 Borlänge
- Kurdiska Spor Föreningen Box 152 16, 161 15 Bromma
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Borås Box 11129, 507 11 Borås
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Eskilstuna Box 14595, 630 14 Eskilstuna
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Falköping Box 146, 521 02 Falköping
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Falun box 6010, 791 06 Falun
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Helsinborg Visitörsg. 13, 252 47 Helsingborg
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Gävle Box 1277, 801 37 Gävle
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Göteborg Box 11102, 404 23 Göteborg
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Hudiksvall Valv. 15, 824 42 Hudiksval
- Kurdiska Kultur och Solidaritetsföreningen Box 225, 175 02 Järfälla
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Jönköping Box 8043, 550 08 Jönköping
- Kurdiska Kultur Klubben Box 130, 691 22 Karlskoga
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Karlstad Fagog. 11, 654 70 Karlstad
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Kristinstad Bataljonv.40, 291 37 Kristinstad
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Linköping Box 657, 582 07 Linköping
- Kurdiska Handikappsföreningen i Linköping Box 657, 582 07 Linköping
- Kurdiska Kulturföreningen i Luleå Box 170, 971 05 Luleå
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Lund Box 1633, 221 01 Lund
- Kurdistans Fredsförening i Malmö Fosilv. 29 B, 7 tr. 214 31 Malmö
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Malmö N.Gränsbergsg. 4, 214 55 Malmö
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Märsta c/o Gharib Adil, Sleipersg 40, 195 54 Märsta
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Norrköping Kungsgatan 26, 602 20 Norrköping
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Nynäshamn Box 266, 149 23 Nynäshamn
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Sala-Häby Box 165, 733 30 Sala
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Sandviken Box 3070, 811 33 Sandviken
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Spånga Box 4118, 163 04 Spånga
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Stockholm Box 49090, 100 28 Stockholm
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Sundsvall Box 6025, 850 06 Sundsvall
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Trollhätten Box 6043, 461 06 Trollhätten
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Umeå Box 257, 901 06 Umeå
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Upplandsväsby Björkvalav. 29, 194 36 Upplandsväsby
- Kurdistans Förening Uppsala Box 308, 750 03 Uppsala
- Svensk Kurdsike Föreningen i Uppsala Box 25065, 750 25 Uppsala
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Västerås Box 1369, 720 13 Västerås
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Örebro Box 537, 701 50 Örebro
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Östersund Box 668, 831 27 Östersund, mm mm
- Why they listed all these Kurdish organisations?
- Just a minute!... Listen to the Svekish version first!...
- Man bör fråga om vem som betalar alla dessa skandinaviens omfattande lokalers
hyror? Varför? Älskar kapitalistiska regimer de konfliktdrabbade länders folk så
mycket? - I wonder!.. Who pays the hires all of the marionette leagues'
offices? And why?..
- That is wonderful question!.. I witnessed, the Jew controlled municipalities
paying all these satellite leagues hire bills... I wonder on the future all of
the members of these headquartes... But, excuse me I' continue in Svekish
language, again... - You are welcome!.. - Well!... När det
gäller sätta på jobbet de medlemmarna av dessa, varför då försvinner
generösiteten utan ifrågasättas de som och diskrimineras en del livet ut så
cyniskt sätt för att "mörka kraftersliknande" verksamheten REGISTRERAR
MÄNNISKOR, speciellt de som är kritiska mot systemet och som beskrivits att inte
lydiga hos den sionistiska imperialismen???
- Vi vanliga medborgare borde vara verkligen vänliga och orka satsa på att
upplysa allmänheten, omedelbart, ifrågasätta vad den enorma satsningen,
systemlydna omorganisationen betyda!
- Sources?
- Svensk Encyclopedia on Internet:; plus, judestyrda trasor som Dagens Nyheter,
Expressen, Menorah, Judisk krönika etc.
- Do you know about John Bennet?
- No!... Tell us, please!
- He is my mainly living source like all others... I want to tell all these
persons... First, John BENNET... We listen to the cassette, then I'll continue
to translate.... Let's continue with the "characters" issue!.. Australiensisk
yttrandefrihetskämpe och revisionist, medlem i Australian Civil Liberties Union.
Uppsala Nya Tidning/artikelserien om "Bergman-affären": Jan Bergman är Professor
i religionshistoria, egyptolog, text-exeget mm. som arbetar vid Uppsala
university. Bergman var inkallad som försvarsvittne i samband med
Rami-rättegången 1989, och vittnade bl.a. om hur judendomen använder sig av
religiösa påbud för att legitimera bruk av våld och mord på icke-judar. Som ett
resultat av att han med sin kompetens och kunskap vågade visa på den judiska
rasismen, beslutade sig judarna för att försöka krossa Bergman, och drog igång
en kampanj, den sk. Bergman-affären, mot Uppsala university. En kampanj som
fortgår alltjämt idag, och vars syfte är att krossa Bergman, beröva hans
akademiska rang, smutskasta honom och sätta ett avskräckande exempel. Den
judiska arrogansen gav dock en motsatt effekt och väckte istället ett medvetande
inom Uppsala university om den judiska makten och hur den verkar. För mer info
bör man läsa Ahmed Rami's bok "Judisk Häxprocess" där Bergmans omtalade
vittnesmål finns publicerat. Läs gärna också Bergmans artikel publicerad i
Upsala Nya Tidning: "Kampanj mot min person" heter rubriken... Kan fräckheten
vara traditionell hos någon annan folkstamm? "Vikingabarbariet kan jämföras med
kanske men, på dett kan man inte tävla med judar", avslöjar dessa fräcka
fascisters egna kommittén i sin egen version som heter The Encyclopedia Jude.
Den här attityd betecknas Chutzpah: (shutzpeh, schutzpah, schutzpeh, shutzpah,
shutzpeh...) Den judiska fräckheten. Ett exempel är enligt "Encyclopaedia
Judaica" sonen som dödade sina föräldrar och senare vände sig till
församlingskassan för att få bidrag som föräldralös. Cordelia Edvardson: Judisk
Ockupied Middle East's korrespondent på Svenska Dagbladet. Vann det stora
journalistpriset 1983. Israelisk medborgare och författarinna till boken
"Brännt barn söker sig till elden" om hennes upplevelser under andra
världskriget i s.k. "förintelse" (hurdan Förintelse, alla klarade överleva och
hon såldes i verkligheten som 14 åring hora till svenska bordeller)... Hennes
son är med i den judiska arméns fallskärmsjägartrupper (som dricker palestinska
barnens blod som äkta pappan SS-trupper...). Ulf Ekman: Pastor och judisk
bastard- "führer" för Livets Ord och fanatisk Zionist Mafia-vän, har bl.a.
skrivet boken "Judarna - Framtidens folk", där han visar hur det är vår plikt
som icke-judar att slava för det judiska folket - till sin hjälp för att
förklara detta citerar Ekman bibelcitat från den judiska bibeln - Torahn. Typisk
religiös kollaboratör fascist i branschen av kristen-Nazi-Zionist triangel.
Förenade Israelinsamlingen - Keren Hayesod: En mäktig judisk organisation, med
global täckning och lokalavdelningar över hela världen. Arbetar med att samla in
pengar till den s k Zionist military Mafia USrael genom
pengainsamlingar och donationer från förmögna judar i "diasporan". Den svenska
lokalavdelningen har en egen tidning som heter "Menorah". Goj: (goy, pluralis.
gojim el. goyim) Nedlåtande judisk beteckning på icke-judar. Synonymt med
"boskap", "kreatur" enligt dem, den form av fascist syn relaterat med judiska
uttrycket "Shabbaz Goj".
- This an enormous double moral machine, it stinks much more in last time...
Machine has two sides; a side of these lobbies discrimate persons and recruits
only the selected loyal members in false democracy areas and second one side of
the troops going to eliminate people on the occupied areas... A soft side and a
bloody backside of an enorms process...
- Look at the AMS, for example it worjks like a kind of mniature model of Nobel
committees; here the persons get first true jobs, who licks the ass of zionist
chiefs.. Meantime these authorities discriminate the honoured intellectuals... I
met well-known examples, jobless academicians too.. There are many persons much
more talented than COETZEEE and Mammele EBADI, there are much more Humanist
Jurists, Humanist Poems, Writers who are the victims of satellite regimes..
These pursued heroes really show engagement on many areas but these pursued
persons are still under heavy persecution process... I met the true heroes of
human rights, been jobless because they never collaborated with the judaized
Imperilaism.. I know many living examples, sice 15 years going jobless... Many
of them used in the laboratories, many of them are not aware...
- Many of them above listed offices and leagues, too.. They have been used as
animals in the laboratories, but they don't aware on such process..
- You mean the false "Jobbcentrum Vårberg"?.. - Such ridiculous process
centres of hypocrisy system... - I understand!.. All these registrated
intellectuals handled more cruel than non-talented immigrants...Because,
imperialism afraid of the brains at work nor the "living creatures"...
- Sweden has at least an half million registrated jobless... Massdiscrmination,
human and no single one "jobseeker Jew"... Like a kind of dynasty...
- Many pursued persons get no single one true cnace in work lihe... All life
long!.. This is a crime!...
- Discrimination is a crime, true!..
- Discrimination and persecution are the exercution of liberal capitalist
barbarity!...
- Satellites living in an ocean of double standards... They give Nobel prize to
the lapdogs and meantime don't see the reality in their own backstage..
- IWe, ordinary people are all together the animals?
- According to Jewish dogmatism; yes!... A kind of "Animaniacs", what the boss
of Swedish cultur-market describes...... If you accept that Jews are first class
human and you are animal, serious; so you can take permanent chance for recruits
in the liberalized work world...
- Now I understand better, why any selected immigrants take always chance to be
personnel in Scandinavia!..
- This is a chain!..
- Dirty and bloody chain, but you must use label "culture"!.. This is the
validity in this community which rules under Zionist domination...

**
- Why the Zionist lobbies invest for manipulative culture activities? - One
aspect of the centuries-old, and present-day, operations of the Zionists is the
undermining and ruining of the culture of other nations, the disintegration of
their distinctive national features and of their national unity. A related
aspect is their activities directed against the culture of all mankind, against
classical, harmonizing art of all kinds. Destruction, dissonance,
abstractionism, surrealism and other nastinesses are elevated into a principle.
This is then declared to be the last word in culture; those who do not accept it
are defamed as being retrogrades, as not understanding modern art, and so forth.
The consciousness and psychology of the masses are ruined. This applies both to
any particular nation, and to all mankind. The nature of the "cultural
activities" of the Zionists lies in depriving all the Gentile nations of their
particular national roots, as well of their roots in a general human sense. That
is the nature of the Zionists' so-called cosmopolitanism. The current decline of
culture and art in Russia is very directly related to the ruinous work of
Zionism, and is the direct work of Zionism's hands. In large matters as in
small, Zionists are everywhere taking control of the organs of administration of
culture, art, education and science, and are performing relevant work in a
manner suitable to Zionism. Specifically, the art of a nation, and the roots of
a nation's soul, are being perverted, vulgarized and coarsened. This is done
shamelessly and effectively. They take their activities to the stage where a
Russian, for example, (and unfortunately this is no rarity) will say: "I can't
stand Russian songs!" The point is that he has been and still is being served a
specially prepared surrogate. The songs which are passed off as the songs of a
nation frequently bear no relation to the true art of that nation. They are
either minor pieces of work, or imitations, or things which have been specially
corrupted and perverted. Moreover, man has for a long time been sustainedly torn
away from his national roots. He is to a large extent already denationalized and
will consequently better absorb that substitute for culture which is of benefit
to Zion because it works on people in the spirit which Zion desires.
**

- Nobel prize is the bigger process by all of such cultural weapons...
- A strong advocate of Zionism, Gerald Kaufmann, heads the panel of judges for
the Booker Prize. Other members of the panel are John Sutherland, Natasha
Walter, Shena Mckay and Boyd Tonking. There were several factors other than
literary excellence that influenced the selection for the prize wrote Paul
Bailey, a noted literary critic, recently. He cited the examples of Salman
Rushdie and Vikram Seth who, despite their lack of literary talent, were awarded
the prize earlier.
This year's prize was awarded to the South African writer, J.M Coetzee. The
Egyptian writer Ahdaf Soueif was the most deserving among the final list of the
writers. The judges considered her novel, 'The Map of Love', a rare piece of
literary excellence, according to Bailey. Yet she was denied the prize.
Analyzing the reasons for her disqualification, Prof. Sutherland considers that
her hostile sentiments toward the Zionist movement could have prompted Kaufmann
to adopt a unfavorable stand against her. Kaufmann's past as a zealous Jewish
activist underpins this suspicion. He was born and brought up among Jewish
zealots. After completing his education at Leeds, he entered politics. He was
elected a Labor MP in 1970. Prime Minister Harold Wilson, noted for his Zionist
tilt, included him among his confidants. Spotting his talent combined with his
dedication to the Zionist movement, Wilson allowed Kaufmann to prepare his
speeches on special occasions. During the Six-Day War, Kaufmann carried secret
letters between the Prime Minister's office and Israel's ambassador Aharon
Remez. This act, in fact, amounted to espionage and treason against Britain.
Kaufmann's memoirs also shed light on the biased British stand toward Israel in
1967 war. Kaufmann criticized the neutral stand taken by Edward Heath's
Conservative government in the 1973 Middle East war. He also expressed his
displeasure over the government's ban on the sale of weapons to Israel,
considering it the aggressor. The then Conservative government also denied
American planes carrying weapons to Israel permission to land or refuel in
British airports. Kaufmann also accused Foreign Secretary Sir Alec Douglas Home
of anti-Semitism because of his bold stand in the General Assembly on this
issue. Later Kaufmann paid a visit to Israel in order to express his sympathy
and apology for the matter. Menahem Begin, the veteran terrorist leader, wanted
to meet Kaufmann in particular and express his personal gratitude to Kaufmann
for the services offered by him to Israel, Kaufmann's 'true motherland,' by
committing treason against Britain, his native country.
On Kaufmann's becoming the shadow foreign secretary for Labor in 1987, the Arabs
expressed their deep concern over the matter. He did not want to lose his post
because of the displeasure of the Arabs. Therefore Kaufmann began to appear as a
supporter of Palestinian self-determination. His attitude toward the Zionist
movement, however, did not undergo any change. He called Zionism a movement for
cultural liberation.
The fact that Salman Rushdie got the prize because of his venomous attack on
Islam and Ahdaf Soueif was denied it because of her Arab identity makes one
wonder whether a writer's attitude toward Islam and Arabs is the decisive factor
in winning the Booker Prize

**

- I understand, such kinky system gave prizes to its own doggies, nothing
else... - It's true!.. And then this Jewish provocator propagandist lapdog
"Jabotinsky Nut" COETZEE won (!!!) NOBEL prize 2003. - Well, it's not
only to the fake literature of an zion "gentle fascist" bastard; frankly it's an
extra prize to the South African mobilize assassination leagues who joined to
realize "well-planned cleansing" Olof PALME, too... - Like a kinky film
clip, a scenario on the Hypo-Culture Crisis of the zion infected Western shurk
intellectuality. - It realized at the least!.. This is the
"schutzpach", Jewish freaknness...

**
- What are you thinking on these incredible scenes? - We must know that
our weakness is Imperialism's strength, I understand here again... - I agree
with you, Comrade Jonas Hållén! - You are welcome, Comrade Lars Törnman!
**
- I think, democracy should work better!.. Criminals and collaborators should be
arrested!
- Should we arrest the criminals?!. Don't make me laugh! - Well, I see the
double roles and false rules of the juridical instruments... What a shame we
been forced to label it "democracy"... How thus majority of people, thus living
creators, stinky mass could be so incredible nonsense blind meanwhile all the
enormous fraudulent process?!.. Unbelieveable!... This is a glaring
injustice!.. I wonder, what goes wrong by the juridical instruments... How can I
say?! It is very strange!... You now, if you see all these incredible cases,
nonsense attitudes... - How? Do you explain? What is concrete that you
remember? - Yes, I remember that David Janzon, a redactional worker of Radio
Islam, was sentenced to 4 months' imprisonment in October 1992, for the
station's agitation "against an ethnic group". Are the provocators of Capitalist
Fascist lobbies are really a ethnical group?! - There is so specially
groups? Okay, Jews!... It's the overclass group, nobody can imitate such
shurks... - But when you been oppressed so your accusation can only
be refuseed... The shurks are the masters 'cause they experinced a lot of cruel
methodes since many years... You can only suffer like many freedom fighters...
- Concrete cases? - Very much!... The judges of system who play dirty
rolls... It is extra incredible on Swedish justice-scenes that many foolish
judges been corrupted by Jewish authorities and they play extra horrible rolls
as pycho-proff doctor magister at policlinics... I can not meet all the judges
nor observate all the cases but I met many high-staff at Golf Club Tenerrife,
they explained... Shameful!... I can not explain here what they say on the
corrpted colleges, so awfully shameful... ... Court material look likes
simetrical sences, reasons are too similarly... Many papers of court been
published by the Bonniers, Nordstedt... Same mechanism publish as basic Zionist
propagand material, too... EU-membership... After 1995 impressed it by the
democratical authorities of other countries? - Unfortunately, it's in all
frauds, much more dirty now... If any true jurist goes to United Nations related
commissions or the independent justice authorities, so we shall most interesting
scandals... - What kind of scandals? - For instance Osmo
Vallo&Tony Mutka and other members of the "assassination on the so called
Resande Folket" cases... Märta Pettersson and others who murdered by the
"imported criminals" like Bengalian Zionist Mafia moblized in the EU; similarly
recruitment cases... Remember; what the relatiives of Tony Deogan, Dagmar
Hagelin, Anders Gustavsson demand... - Don't make me worry with
examles, don't list please much more!.. - It's not me who create the
official shame lists!.. Did you hear Osmo Vallo's two brothers and all other
relatives are arrested, too... The victims and witness been arrested instead of
murderers... Otherway, many freedom fighters forced to be jobless and living
under minimal standards... Most famous concret case is Stefan Dimiter
Tcholakov who labelled as "laborious" and Work Rights fighters Jimmie
Östergren, delegated adviser (former grafiker) Bengt Pettersson and Ahmed Rami,
because of these bravehearts criticized the thieves by the Capitalist Jewish
lobbies... Laponians who fight for own mark and minority rights, therefore
prisoned their representative character Olof T. Johansson, the true Socialists
like Bengt Frejd, Sara Lidman, Staffan Ehnebom, so-called the "Free Speech
Fighters", anti-Capitalist demonstranter like Jan Hatto, Sten Arne-Zerpe,
Dietlieb Felderer, movements who struggle against the weapon-handlers like
Henrik Westander (before professur-chair gift) and by his side likely flexible
Calle Höglund, anti-Imperialists Hannes Westberg, Herman Schmid, journalists
Staffan Beckman, Stefan Hjertén, free-mind intellectuals like Rainer Holm, Linus
Brohult, honoured priest K. G. Hammar and hundreds of the anti-Imperialists who
been registrated by the lobbies... - What is common with them?
- Also! When a Fascist accuse them so judges punish the reviewers,
immediately... But when the oppressed people leave any accusation acceptance,
can easily be refuseed ... The requests of them almost been absolutely
refuseed... - Why the DN, Expressen and other big papers awoid of to
publich these true stories?.. They awoid of to show the real discrimination?!
Schindler's List was only a filmatic illusion, actually the true boss never gave
a chance peace in communities... You know, Bonniers, Wallenberg,
Bilderberg-gangs and "Bulldogs" drive the Swindlers' lists, means all the
honoured intellectuals been registrated on their computers... Therefore
Stockholm-Canberra changed to be second plot area of Jew York-Tel Aviv's armed
Mafia... - Yes, it's!.. But what a lucky I have been warned before!.
- The authorities are blind on such actions.. Why? - Because every big
shurk drives by the big lobbies in this big SvekJa zionized Kingdom... - ?!
- How can we could informed and know the truth!?... - I can't reply all in
two minutes?! - Well!... I understand better... It's a modernised
version of enormous hypocrisy... And I understand why the worlkd couldn't react
when Jews slaughed people in Sabra, Shatila, Jenin... Everybody watched on tv
meanwhile druck Coca-Cola, chips, bonbons... - Like the film-druged idiots?..
- No, Sir!... We have incredible reactions and collaborated feelings too,
remember, we all cried when we watched on the Swindler's list, whole lies
master-piece on scenes... - Shame on double-moral masters!.. Where are the
all good peoples now?! - No way to Pessimism, please!.. Well, I see a
positive case here on the Scandinavian Jewish DN, Expressen, Menorah pages;
Maximum sentence for the desecration of cemeteries - an outrage which
traditionally targeted Jewish cemeteries - was raised from 6 months'
imprisonment to 2 years. Yes, the prisonment period raised in 1993, Spring.
Then... - It should not calls for case; it's provocation... There is no any
single case in SvekJa, means nobody sentenced, nobody improsined for
desecrations.. - Maximum sentence will be 2 years! Isn't good? - I
want not talk on the sentences good or not good... But I'm coming from Skaane
and I witnessed who targeted the cemeteries... - Who? -
Jews!... I saw them... They were there and porovoced very succesful so they
manipulated sitation... Therefore there is no prisoner after this pharagraph '
cause they aimed change the rules... - I remember a similarly case,
my mother witnessed and told us about the foxy Jews who played theatre at the
street on 30 November in Germania... It was before WW III, Jewish fanatics
crashed own glass and won enormous generous compensation by the reasurance
firms... But their media manipulated the world by the help of american
Imperialism so all the analphabets crying on every 30 September worldwide, every
year like a crying festival, meantime the Zionist boss' laughing behind the
windows...
**
- This is not the Cold War but a form of ongoing Cold War, what drives now by
the lobbies... This area demands the prejudiced scientists... - Why the
oppressed folk don't protest or discuss these problems... - Ever and never!
This is not the results of the football matches... People need knowledge on
biological developments... - Biological? Bur the lobotomies and
sterilization methodes were only in last century?! - System have now most
avanced methodes for instance isolation, registration and systematically
injustice... Only two tousand youngs become suicide in SvekJa Kingdom, two times
been a short news.. - Youngs?... But adults? - They never
counts by half officially pools.... Animal lover bourgeoisie have
sex-partner-dogs, counts for identification and health rights, but not the
discriminated persons... Never mind!... - There aren't really a single
one modernized democratical institution?
- ?! ** - I wonder why many
immigrants sets to work without language courses meanwhile many others been
discriminated because of their language is not "wonderful, brilliant"?.. - I
met many people too... For example after Warszawa pakt's collapse fleed
manybiologs to the occupied Middle East, Australia, SvekJa and specially the
laboratory workers sets on the jobs without any oppression... - Did you
found any explain about this subject?.. - Not directly... I met a family
in SvekJa, who calls for BOLDTs, escaped from Baltics by the way of so-called
"official Al Capone Raoul Wallenberg" Co's false Finnish pass and corrupted
authorities in Kingdom by the way of Jewish lobbies... A cunning mature, drives
"Invandrar Publications"... She explained that all these scientists had already
one or two international languages what been respected... - She lies!.. I
know a writer, know six or seven language but SvekJa system set him too the
cleaner-catch boy courses... - Yes; I understand... Jolin replied this
case too; "maybe the writer criticised the oligarchical targets..." -
And she publish these subjects on the Invandrar Tidningen? Bravo!... - You
will be chocked; she help to the lobbies to registrate opposite... - Was she
biology-worker in Baltics... - No!... But system need such families to
follow the people and therefore she didn't go to the claenar courses and nor any
language course although her vocabulary is worst when I compare with other
immigrants... Nowadays fixed this family a credit possbility by the lobbies and
Swedish American authorities,looks like a support to publish weekly propagand
bulletin, called "Sesam"... - Is it a propagand bulletin which the
redacteurs in Jew York recommended? - Yes!... Worst and most dangerous in the
world... - Do you explain; what you discovered by Sesam or chief Jolin
Boldt or Jusek/jurists' judadominated syndical sect media runs by Göran Boldt
Co. although this zionist gang never had a single one scientist in the
family!.. - Yes, it's!.. But such chiefs are clever to use the regularly
credits of system... I am an ordinary people and regularly reading all the
issues of Sesam/Jusek falsification magazines and look at on these pages, what
these gangsters provoce: "Immigrants always have problems.. They must complete
their education and integrate to the democratical values..." Very
provocative...It means if you never been accepted as true citizen so you must
think that your education is low, complete it... If immigrated person is
non-judaic originated must complete cources to be disher, even if man is
professor.. But other immigrant who came from Warszawa and presented himself as
academician, accepted to be professor wit´hout a true diplom.. If you criticize
this dirty deal, riskable to be labelled that you collapsed on integration...
- A kind of tregistrated psycho? - Definitely!.. This is a nonsense
market... The masters of this neo-liberal "smiling fascist process" show no
pardon... Since many years the Swedish immigrant publications run by the fascist
zionist readcteurs, collaborators and inseminate false imagination... This is a
insemination what the Zionist Fascists do against thesecond class people in Tel
Aviv... In SvekJa Kingdom, by this shurk-coup drivessame project... Look at
these pages, even the Laponians counts like the second class people and never
discuss serious their minority rights, work rights by the industrial
investigations of Kingdom... They handled often like the Gypsies,more worst;
they handled like prisoners on its own marks like the Palestinians who prisoned
his own haoses there in the occupied Middle East... Do you discussuor rights
here on Immigrant pages? Never... Boldt have credit by Spaarbank and Nordea's
Jew chiefs... Why? Because, Boldt-gang is the best flexible which uses like a
condom against Human Rights...According of these shurks there is no any Zionist
Occupational Gang in the world, but Palestinians been counted as problematics...
Palestinians described like the immigrants there, what the oppressed people
behandles here in SvekJa Kingdom... Boldt and her lap-dogs manipulate the
questions of immigrants and never answer thequestions although there is two
pages for responses... - I know a Jewish paper in USA, redacteur send
letters himself and replies later instead of the true readers... -
Similar tactic!... What Big Brother do, Swedish hypocrites just imitate it...
Not only this fetty imbecill's Sesam, all other creit-addicted papers
administrations making copies of ordinary people's letters... mostly all these
half-officially "Invandrar" publication industry "brain washing instruments on
the immigrants" running on this line... what thelobbies, so-called
"registrationsnamnden" and the collaborators by the Swedish ministries like
much and therefore pumping money.. - Now I have a little question; is
Boldt-gangs are Jewish originated... - More dangereous... Members, so-called
"edsvurna" by the Zionist lobbies!...But how you guess about the origins of
these shurks?! - I am not so stupid although I like sometimes discuss
football, too... - ...and maybe a private question, too!.. How you can be so
close to Jolin!... - She like small and younger Africans like a tradition by
the bourgeoisise fetties nowadays and it was plus point when she discovered I am
from Ethiopia... - More question? - No more, 'cause I have already
all the answers on this area specially experiences by such kind of chiefs who
need my massage... This is biology, too; bio-physique... - But why all these
lobbies hate Rainer Holm?.. Rainer is not immigrant.. - He registrated
because of the critics againt the system and projects.. - What kind of
system? Whose projects, whose rules? - Kidding? - ?!
**
- Different faces but same play on the dirty scenes!..
- That is right!.. Unfortunately, a crow goes but another crow comes...
Betrayers love eacht other and they always have supporters by the financial
lobbies... For example Sparbank, Nordea, Associates thieves Co,
Citibank/CitiGroup, even CSN and other similarly ziondominated betrayers,
lean-mousetraps...
- More dangerous than all other classical mafia examples... Because all these
liberalized instruments have both legal and illegal leagues, different faces on
the different scenes...
- Flexible fascism!..
**
- Not only this case and such victims, all the anti-imperialists
are the potentially criminals, according to the registrators of lobbies...They
are suspicious in all cases, on all the connections... - They are
suspicious perhaps only on our duties... Otherways I met an interesting gay, he
talks perfect Persian like a true Iranian citizen, practiced around of Gulf...
- Dehdari? Kamali? Tagawi? - Bijan Fahimi!.. This gay, Persian Zionist
case enough to explain any connections between many Swedes... Such "imported
instruments" help to compare with the opprtunities and opportunists for example
these persons systematically been discrimined: Staffan Ehnebom, Jimmie
Östergren, Ahmed Rami, Ernst Rainer Holm (regime critic worker, disappeared in
Gaevle city just after May Day 2003), Henrik Westander, Osmo Vallo (murdered by
police torture in Malmuu-city) and his prisoned brothers, Tony Deogan and
Anders Gustavsson (both murdered by system supported violence leagues and
prosecutors didn't accuse anyone because these poor boys weren't from
bourgeoisie cathegories in the community and both criticized sytem by any
articles before), Bengt Frejd, Olof T. Johansson, Sara Lidman, Calle Höglund,
Belay Mekkonen, Hannes Westberg, Linus Brohult, Sven Wollter, Gunnar Thorell,
Murat Yildiz, Bodil Margret Lindqvist, Staffan Beckman, Ísmet Celepli, Juan
Fonseca (when he had not so intensive interesse on money), Ditlieb Felderer,
Stefan Hjertén, Stefan Dimiter Tcholakov...
- Is it dangerous to have same name? - Very riskable!.. Nephew Stefan
forced to be psyhico because one of the his relatives in Balkan were the
anti-Zionist guerilla leaders... One of the guerillas had same name forced for
Independent Makedonia and jailed by false accusations of two Jewish judges from
Bulgaria just after 1945. Guerilla leader had no possibility to defence himself,
Jewish judges published only the false accusations, including fictive movements
who leaned weapon from Germania under WW II. Although many corrupted judges and
prosecutors were the traitors, this power manipulated history; nobody succeed to
choose what is right what is wrong by medial campaigns... Guerillas, like
"Uncle Tcholakov" sentenced without any minimal evidence.. He died there... We
see another Tcholakov in Scandinavia, immgrated, but pursued and falled in
incredible troubles... This nephew Tcholakov, "immigrated heimatlos Stefan"
borned in 1944 as Dimiter, become a brilliant academical carrier in Sofia
university and fleed to SvekJa Kingdom, completed 180 university points but
prevented from work life, pursued, isolated, discriminated by the the Jewish
registrators, lobbies, specially the collaborators of Clas Lilja
"genetical-researcher Zionist clan" members in the Waexsjö city university...
I can add other figures, too; for example the victims from West Front like
Robert Malecki as true Vietnam deserter and as second category; Jan Myrdal,
Teddy John Frank, Frank Baude, Peter Bratt, (his cell-shared-comrade Jan
Guillou pissed off from lists because he is a multi-milliarder rich, reached to
be droged creatur at last), Dagmar Hagelin (been pursued by Zionist lobbies who
collaborated with dictators of South America and murdered there by fascist
military of Astiz.. Dagmar murdered because her father listed as Marxist and
very interesting now, his family affected by persecution, all the relatives
troubled similarly case and systematically hunting by the Zionist lobbies),
Torsten Leander (only this one pursued person compensed as symbolic maneouver),
Work Rights Fighters Jimmie Östergren from Högdalen and his ombudsman Bengt
Pettersson from Folks house Raagsved Ghetto district, Lilian Gustavsson who is
mother to Anders, 17, murdered by torture methodes of bulldog Anders Carlsberg's
fascist boys at Fyrshuset trainee center in Hammarby bourgeoisie area of
capitol. After that Anders Carlberg prized as Integration chief and poor mother
Lilian still betrays by the Jewish manipulation center Expo's "professional
liars"...
- It looks like a living history...
- That is right and tv redaction collected much more figures, the names of the
victims, all the almost anti-imperialists... - The "Human enemies"
will not like to talk on such cases.. They hate the truth... - It's true!...
The profiteers of system hate human being... We collected here hundreds of
names... Count please the victims of Estonia ferry, which used to transferring
the nuclear weapons to the West and sinked by an explosion; prosecutors hunted
the criticer intellectuals not the criminal propagandists of Jewish
DN-Expressen-Menorah falsificators nor the boss of weapon markets...... Why thus
people counts in two different categories and what is difference between two
oppressed or only been registrated followed people I don't understand... But you
can notice much more if you visit Veritas Co. Veritas fraud league is a computer
and distribution which serve the falsificators, Swedes call him "Jankele Pirat
kopiormästaren!", means "Bitch falsificator masters' bastard"... - What
is common with all these plays? What is the connection but with our tennisplayer
monkey? - That is the question... They don't know anything and
therefore we are on the duty, means their unknowledge is our gain... -
Game?! - You need go to the ear specialist, my friend; Nordic climate
is not fit to your upside... - ?! **
- Please, my friend!... Take these coverages back to the archives!.. Explain
nothing there, outside;please! I'll do tanksgiving because I have only ond year
to be retired.. - Wait!.. Wait!.. My son and daughters already at AMS and
their fiancees fixed places at Länsarbetsnämnden, Migration teater's
integrationsverket.. It was difficult to be staff there, without any true exam,
nor really job interviews... We mustn't leave their situations on risk!.. - ?!
**
- I witnessed any related cases... But a woman who formated this explain she was
been guilt, instead of the suspected persons... Don't make laugh on such
stories, please!... One of these writers named Bodil Margret Lindqvist wrote a
saga/story and faced PUL when the Evangelist coup of Swedish church spioned
her... But folks insist to be solidarised with Bodil Margret Lindqvist... Dod
you know, why? Resistance against discrimination... Saga on Ulf BERG , for
instance, this saga is a strong file of Bodil's works... Saga-files are a kind
of action; yes, I should remember that Bodil Margret Lindqvist was VPK-follower
rebel... - VPK? - Vaensterpartiet kommunisterna.. Main European
leftist parties changed themselves but traditionally hate clans of zionist
imperialism didn'rt change the persecution process on the antiimperialists...
- They hate human being... - That's right!.. This is one of the
reasons; yes, she was a famous member by Communist Party... There are any
related explains on her own

Amanda Shamansons NOBEL CHARLATANRY=SCIENTICAL MASKED MULTI-FUNCZIONAL PROSTITUTION of JUDAIZED IMPERIALISM..(This Saga begins with the English language version) 10-11-2003 10:53

NOBEL CHARLATANRY=SCIENTICAL MASKED MULTI-FUNCZIONAL PROSTITUTION of JUDAIZED IMPERIALISM..(This Saga begins with the English language version)

- Wow!.. I didn't understand, Sir!..
- This is a saga, not a bonbon, therefore it's not so easy to understand just at first suck!... The Saga on the Satellite Kingdoms' stinky culture//Ridiculous and contemptible attitudes of the Nobel shurks&Corrupted Bastards of lobbies&Mammeles of degradation&freak doggies of the Zionist Imperialist ignominy.
- I am beginning to understand...
- You see!.. Call the matters only with their true names, simply!.. - ?!

**
- An advocate, false muslim Mammele Shirin EBADI won peace prize and a writer
false Humanist J. COETZEE on literature... - Also, you mean, the
Scandinavian Nobel commitees prized a jurist and a writer?.. - Yes!.. But what
is strange, Sir? - Well, I know a true Humanist Jurist and Writer, since
15 years he lives in Scandinavia, works for Human Rights but never get a job,
nor been accepted to an official project, interviews... This true lawyer, Human
Rights fighter systematical discriminated and still under heavy oppression...
- Incredible!.. What did he? - Nothing!.. Before 15 year he wrote a
little poem, there he criticized the anti-humanist issues and perhaps meaned to
protest the occupation on the occupied Middle East.. - Perhaps? -
Perhaps, means "definitely" according to the talmudic fanatism... And I searched
his poems, foun only on one single line expressed that "my heart is my gift to
the children of Palestine/use it my little heroes, throw it at least like a
stone"... - And than? - Well, he just been registrated by the
Zionist lobbies of Sweden... Theses ridiculous lobbies already manipulating the
authorities against this braveheart human... The chiefs of suh lobbies have
main assertion that when an academician criticizes the anti-Humanist attitudes
it means such perspective is potentially danger against the Zionist
Imperialism... - What!.. Millions of human and whole civilization are the
danger against barbarity.. Is it wrong? - We can not discuss so open
if that wrong or not.. But therefore can other kind of types never nominees to
such prizes... - ?! - You looks like chocked, Sir!..
- You'll be more chocked when I say what I think now!.. - Say!..
- Ia m fuc'king such Nobel committee bastards!.. I am fuc'king your Mammele
Peace Ebadi and Jabotinsky male whore CuteZee, at least you, too!.. - ?!
**
- What are you thinking on JM COETZEE? -He is very clever falsificator,
uses humanitarian masks but he is a lapdog of the world domination of Zionst
Imperialism&Talmudian fascism... Coetzee is wporking nowadays at Chicago
university for "Bran Washing" process. - But the officially resources
describe an other figure as Coetzee... We have a short documentary clip, on
such cases..... - Let's watch your example!.. - Endangered
Species: Jews and Buffaloes, Victims of Nazi Pseudo-science... By Frank Fox:
The author visited the Warsaw zoo in the late 1980s to trace the story of Jews
saved in animal cages and in 1999 went to Bialowieza, where the last of the
noble zubr (buffalo) can be seen. Few creatures are more helpless in time of war
than zoo animals and their plight is generally ignored when, understandably, the
human casualties are of greater concern. While we do not have to agree with the
anthropomorphic view expressed by J. M. Coetzee in his The Lives of Animals,
which conflates the sufferings of animals with the horrors of concentration
camps, we should not fail to see how cruelties inflicted by humans on animals
diminish all life. - I don't know the Warszaw Zoo animals thinking like
COETZEE but I witnessed the Coalition troops in Baghdad zoo, they shot the
animals, unique tiger art and other magnífique animals... This is a living
history and a chance to compare with Jrewish propaganda illusion arts and the
true Holocaust... - Nobel committee prized a liar? - Again!..
It looks like the Imre Kertész case.. - I don't think so.. This case is
little different and performed freakness. Scandinavian Zionist lobbies paying
thanksgiving to South African lobby, too... - Thanksgiving between
gangsters? - Definitely.. Remember, please, South African leagues
agitated to the "cleansing operations".. - Example?.. -
These shurks coopertared to cleanse Olof PALME, if you wish hear very clear
example... - Incredible!.. PALME murdered in 1986 but this South African Zionist
get prize new, in 2003. - Professional business.. They are not so
idiotics who will run to mouse-trap.. Today the children get homework,
obligatory to buy Coetze and Imre Kertesz's propaganda book who were in the
mothers' stomach.. Such "brain washing" lambs can not know what PALME said but
exactly repeate what the Nobel prized shurks say... - After all these
years... We have not su much to do... - Perhaps only one word;
"Incredible"... - Incredible foolish.. - Foolish!..
Traditionally Talmudian imperialism absorbed the culture wealthy of all the
close sattellites.. Sweden won this word as a label on such cultur...

**
- What does NOBEL-prize scandal mean? Does the "Intellectual Scientical
Morality" decide take legal proceedingt against thus enormous fraud and such
manipulative foundations?
- Well, in fact NOBEL PRIZE COMMITTEE shurks connected with the ZIONISM (JEWISH
FASCISM)&any kind of halfoffical fraud LOBBIES, possessed Swedish institutions,
like a legalized coup in the European Union...
- But you are talking on the measures... I have no idea!...
- What is the intellectual responsibilty in this case?
- Maybe to try a Laponian perspective, a kind of essay on the Svekish Model
Culture-...
- Do it, Sir!

**

- Let's get started! Watch please all these video tapes, so you'll understand
that there is no culture in Svekja Kingdom!...
- I watched the first 40 episodes in the EMI studios and I agree with you!..
Although we in SvekJa don't dub our films or series as they do in Germany,
France or Italy (just for an example), we do subtitle them. So, this is the
version that is being subtitled. Animaniacs is called Anima-Dårpippi in SvekJa
Kingdom, which could be translated "Animated Lunatics". The translation is made
by Svek-state Television (SVT) which is the Public Broadcasting Network in
SvekJa Kingdom.
- Here is Svekish Culture; I know; Swedo Animaniacs is a symbol of halfofficial
culture propagand theme;
Swedo Amimaniacs
nu kommer Animaniacs/
vi är knäppiga till max /
skratta på er får ni strax/
sitt ner, för det är dags /
för Animaniacs /
vi är två Warner-bröder och en Warner-syster, Dot/
Filmstaden vi rusar runt och hittar jämt på nåt /
de låser gärna in oss /
när vi i fällan gått /
men varje bur vi tar oss ur/
det har ni nog förstått/
se Animaniacs /
se här Dot och Yakko strax/
Wakko äter gravad lax /
när motherfucker Jew Bill Clinton spelar sax/
till Animaniacs/
här är två andra polare som jämt vill sticka opp /
och duvorna får akta sig, nu får de en sittopp /
jakten går på Mindy /
och Rita drar en vals/
författarna har kollat /
varför ska vi repa alls?/
se Animaniacs /
ni kan nå oss med ett fax/
vi är knäppiga till max /
knäppigast i vår galax /
vi är så balla /
ja, det tycker alla/
ni får oss kalla /
Animaniacs /
nu är det dags!

- What does it mean?
- It shows, what kind of culture these "decompsed systems" pumping to the new
generations...
- Interpretation, please!
- Welcome, Sir! English translation from Svekish language, here;
Svekian Amimaniacs it's time for Animaniacs
/
we are zany to the max /
you'll be laughing in a while/
sit down, for now it's time /
for Animaniacs/
we are two Warner brothers and a Warner sister, Dot/
around the movie town we run around and we always hit upon something/
they gladly lock us in /
whenever we get trapped/
but from every cage, we get out/
I'm sure you figured that out/
watch Animaniacs /
look, here's Dot and Yakko at once/
Wakko eats gravlax /
when motherfucker Jew Bill Clinton plays the sax/
to Animaniacs/
here are two other buddies who always want to stick up/
and the pigeons have to watch out, now they'll get whacked/
the chase goes on Mindy /
and Rita makes a waltz /
the writers have kicked the bucket/
why should we rehearse at all? /
watch Animaniacs /
you can reach us with a fax/
we're zany to the max /
the zaniest in the galaxy/
we are so nifty/
yes, everybody thinks so/
you may call us/
Animaniacs (*) !/
now it's the time!

(*) Some words have been slighty altered, like the one for "zany" which is
"knäppiga". This adjective is inflected incorrecly, just to make it sound weird.
This is the poem in today's SvekJa Kingdom... Estimate why Nobel prize goes
mostly to the untalented Jews...
- You mean such ridiculous culture attitude, such awards as product
of process!.. But culture is not only literature...
- Of course!.. Therefore I have any living records from overclass who live a
modernized violence as culture life... For instance Pedophilia is a part of this
culture...
- We want to watch all these living cassettes and listen to the other records...
But who will translate all these evidences? Do you translate these records, too?
We don't know Svekish languae!
- Okay!.. Let's go!... Start!.. Listen to the dialog and answer my questions...
- Well, we listened a programme..."Western finance captal culture been built on
violences"... Original label was "Väster(finanskapital marknad)s kultur bygs på
våld(täckta); FM broadcast on June 30, 2000 - I rememeber...
- Me too, Nicolas Poussin var som berättat om vålds kultur och den traditionella
kulturens samröreprofiter...
- Explain shortly, please; I understand your language!
- Det talas först om våldbilder... Våldtäkten på sabinskorna, Metropolitan
Museum of Art, Jew York. Den första målningen som skildrar en gruppvåldtäkt.
Mats Deland om den härskande klassens makt och den äkta mannens Den här bilden
skildrar en av världshistoriens mest berömda gruppvåldtäkter, med motiv ur
mytologin om staden Roms grundläggning. När de första romarna inte kunde finna
fruar på vanligt sätt överföll de grannfolket sabinerna. De sabinska kvinnorna
tvingades bära romarnas barn och kallas ännu Roms urmödrar. Myten lever och
apostroferas i italiensk giftermålsetikett. En staty med samma namn, Våldtäkten
på sabinskorna, restes på 1580-talet på Piazza della Signoria i Florens,
Poussins tavla målades femtio år senare. I mitten av målningen strosar en
romare lugnt bort från händelsernas larm, vänligt samtalande med den sabinska
han överfallit. Att kvinnan efter en första
upprördhet skulle komma att finna sig i sitt öde är en viktig del av den
föreställningsvärld som ännu bestämmer synen på våldtäkter. Motivet saknar alla
uttryckliga tecken på samlag. Det latinska begreppet för våldtäkt, raptus, hade
ingen omedelbar sexuell laddning; det handlade snarare om stöld av ett slags
egendom. På bilden bärs kvinnorna iväg som vilket byte som helst. Att vi i
förgrunden ser en far, inte en make eller bror som förtvivlat försöker betvinga
en romersk angripare, markerar också den patriarkala kontrollen. Poussins
minutiöst avvägda komposition är ett exempel på vad som brukar kallas heroiska
våldtäktsskildringar. De finns i den västerländska kulturens absoluta centrum:
antika och bibliska motiv, skildrade under en av västerlandets kulturella
höjdpunkter, renässansen och dess fortsättning i klassicism och barock. Även
sentida konsthistoriker har intagit en märkligt förstående attityd. Motivet ovan
kallas vanligen Sabinskornas bortförande, och ord som förförelse, amorösa
utfall, förföljande, extas och till och med kärlek har också använts. Men den
amerikanska konstprofessorn Diane Wolfthal, vars läsning jag återger ovan, visar
i sin bok Images of Rape, The "heroic" tradition and its alternatives (Cambridge
UP 1999) att dessa förskönande våldtäktsskildringar långtifrån var oemotsagda.
Konstverk av det här slaget gjordes naturligtvis av män för män, och åtminstone
från början av 1500-talet var ett av syftena att stimulera erotiskt. De gömdes
som porr i den rikaste adelns privatsamlingar. Men framför allt handlade det om
makt: den härskande klassens och den äkta mannens. Det var hjältens privilegium
att våldföra sig på fiendens kvinnor, och mannens att betrakta kvinnan som sin
(inte hennes släkts) egendom. Detta sätt att framställa övergrepp stod i bjärt
kontrast till den tidigare epokens bilder. De medeltida skildringarna saknar de
erotiserande detaljerna. Däremot visades ibland samlaget, men då kopplat till
symboliska uttryck både för det våld som var förutsättningen för, och följderna
av, övergreppet: offrets förtvivlan och fysiska eller psykiska utplåning. Ofta
finns i dessa bilder – oftast bildserier – även skildringar av hur förövaren
straffas för sitt dåd och till och med samhällskritik. Ibland är det prästfolk
som våldtar, vilket var ett omdiskuterat problem under högmedeltiden. Denna
tradition fick en mindre känd fortsättning under renässansen och framöver, i de
folkliga träsnitt som visade följderna för vanligt folk av 1500- och 1600-talens
krig med värvade massarméer. Här är utförandet enkelt, i svart och vitt, och det
finns inget i bilderna som rättfärdigar de plundrande hjältarnas dåd.
Kvinnokroppar visas aldrig helt avklädda, deras klädsel är
oordnad enbart för att markera utsattheten. Den medeltida traditionen var
ambivalent när det gällde rätten att våldta tjejer i fiendeland, men byggde ändå
anmärkningsvärt ofta på ett tydligt ställningstagande för det kvinnliga offret.
Bilder i kyrkliga källskrifter och lagsamlingar bekräftar det. Boken om
kvinnornas stad, av den medeltida skriftställerskan Christine de Pizan (1363-ca
1430), ägnar tre kapitel åt att diskutera våldtäkter. de Pizan invänder där mot
den medeltida föreställningen att den våldtagna tjejen, om hon skulle bli trodd,
måste bevisa att hon skrikit ut sin förtvivlan över nejden. Likaså kritiserar
hon den kyrkliga åsikten att tjejer som våldtagits borde ta sitt liv i
förtvivlan. Mest intressant är hennes omskrivning av legenden om den Galatiska
drottningen, berättad av Boccaccio. Drottningen hade tillsammans med sitt
sällskap rövats bort och våldtagits av sin kidnappare. I ett obevakat ögonblick
lyckades hon få en av sina tjänare att halshugga våldtäktsmannen – vars huvud
hon senare förärade sin make. Detta var ett för tiden tydligt exempel på att
tjejer kan inte bara överleva en våldtäkt, utan även hämnas på förövaren. I de
Pizans version, illustrerad under hennes överinseende, är budskapet än tydligare
i och med att drottningen själv utför dekapiteringen (att våldtäkten skulle vara
vanhedrande för offret är en föreställning som inte ens de Pizan lyckas frigöra
sig från). Det var knappast heller någon slump att den förövare av ett sexuellt
övergrepp som oftast avbildades i äldre tid var den ur första Mosebok hämtade
Potifars hustru. Hon påstås som bekant först ha misslyckats med att förföra
Josef, Jakobs och Rakels son, för att sedan med en falsk våldtäktsanklagelse ha
fått honom kastad i fängelsehålorna. Även dessa föreställningar, om fresterskan
och den påhittade våldtäktsanklagelsen, återfinns i själva hjärtat av det
västerländska kulturarvet.
- Det blev grund att atarta en debatt i SvekJa Kingdom om relationerna...
- Which one?
- Many... Massor... exempelvis vikinga regler full fart aktuellt fortfarande...
Pedofiler gynnas... Pedofiler anställs av officiella kretsar exempelvis
kurdosionistiska pedofil förrädaren Abit Dundar... Hans landsman den ökända
neo-sionistiska organisatören Nedim Dagdeviren och liknande rörelserna...
- Satellite regime's made an awful boob!.. - Whor are the really behind
this neo-liberal labeled WC?.. I continue in Svekish, menas, vem som står bakom
sådana kriminella?.. Jag har studerat fallet och upptäckt att mestadels af
kulturella falsifikationer ligger en enorm lobbyverksamhet som bedrivs
storskalligt direkt från Tel Aviv&Jew York.. Speciellt i dagens läge visar dessa
kretsar mäktigare ut, tyvärr! De experimenterade och fixade massa instruktioner.
Det är skrämmande att allt kan utnyttjas i samhället om bara dessa hororo vill
exempelvis fraudbenägna medlemmarna i Nobel-prize liknande stiftelserna...
- Corruption? - Both!.. Om man ger pengar till någon riskerar
ifrågasättas om korrupption.. Men om man betalar samma belopp till ett samröre
som maskerad i form av stiftelse samverkan blir det legalt, undviker ligan att
betala skatt och sådana detaljer som bonus...
- OK!.. I understand... You mean, the oligarchical foundations work like any
kind of the legalized fraudulent instruments...
- Definitely!
- I wish listen more... Go on, please!...
**

- It was the second time since 1991 the academy gave the award to a South
African. In 1991, it awarded the prize to another Jewish porpagandist, Nadine
Gordimer. - Feeling of indebtedness... Swedish evangelian zionist power feel
deeply thanksgving by South African collaboration all of operations... The prize
includes a check for more than $1.3 million, but it can also bestow the added
advantage of increased sales, celebrity and admiration. Hora C Engdahl, the
permanent secretary of the academy, said the decision was an easy one. But it's
scandal that this time again discovered that commission members didn't read any
book of Coetzee.. Coetzee, pronounced Cute-SEE'-uh, exposed that Swedish shurk
elite has more time for absolute votha instead of literature...
**
- We think in generalities...
- ...but we live in detalis.
- ...and a lot of people understand nothing, like me!
- ?!

** - Do you translate it, too? Man can't understand
this strange Svekish languae!
- Okay!.. Let's continue with the sponsors issue!
- Varför den lobbyverksamheten övertygar de hjälporganisationerna att supporta
de förrädiska kriminella immigranters falska kulturella centra?
- Exempel?
- Byggdes Kurdish Library, men neo-sionistiska grupper utbildas där i
verkligheten..
- We didn't know!..
- Watch this documentary clip, please; after then we can continue to explain!
- Start, Sir!
- Original label å nakna sanningar formaterats såhär: "E.U. under Zionist
conspiracy"; any chosen Democratical E.U. institutes been targeted... Financial
Criminal Lobbies&dirty affairs&collaborators...
www.Kurdinfo.com/ sympatisörer framlägger bevis om s.k. the financial
collaborative lobbies/concept " i samarbete med översättnings hjälp av
frivilliga hos UNITY: http://myweb.vector.ch/dnthines/home.htm

**

- I understand better!... It looks like a worldwide connection like an half
official liberalized whore culture... Oligarchie uses liberal gloves...
- That is right!... Therefore the estalishmnet needs Nobel-prizes and corrupted
professur chairs for enormous camuflage of the pedophilia and similarly
scandals...

** - Organization "E.U. for the people" . just
reported that E.U. in Crisis!
- Unfortunately; yes, it is !.."
- That is right!... Like Comrade Rojev pointed; "Det bekräftas av olika kretsar
t. ex. ROJEV konstaterat att Krisen fördjupas på grund av konfrontationen
mellan EU&sionistika ockupations gänget/ samt provokation och korruption osv
använts som vapen -full coverage/updated pages... Varning om judiska
provokatörligor i Australia&SvekJa Kingdom som beväpnar kriminella fanatiker bl.
a. kurdiska smugglare/urkundsförfalskare... Folkcentrum-o. Folkhögskolan
Skeppsholmen's vänner informerar i samarbete med Kurdinfo...
- What does Kurdinfo mean?
- Yes!... This organization has been two different organizations, the true DDKD
revolutionaries and the false heroes who accepted work for Zionist leagues...
- Let's listen to dialogs!..
- Det betyder att det är inte hela svenska folket utan s k
sionistisk-fascistiska provokatörer som prisar de falska flyktingarna som
manipulerat Migrationsverket (legaliserade korruptionsgänget) och andra mutade
myndigheter, hävdar Keya Izol (Nedim Dagdevirens förre detta "bästa" vännen).
Den kriminella tjuven Nedim Dagdeviren som hävdade att vara kurdisk flykting och
fått uppehällstillstånd Det stämmer inte, avslöjar tjuvens närmaste f.d. vännen
Keya Izol, bryter banan nu... Nu fick de en extra affärslokal som har skylten
"Kurdiska bibliotek" på Skeppsholmen ö (!) där bara förrädiska kurder och
MoSSad's svenska medlemmar möts istället för läsare...
- Skrattretande! Komplexive relationen å scenen...
- Yes!... Baltics' corrupt-addicted leagues work for NATO and Scandinavian
Jewish financial authorities fishing these easy going fishes... They need the
well camouflaged cultural centers, foundations like false library settled in
Skeppsholmen...
- Skeptiskholmen?!..
- I agree with you... They explain it on the former links:
http://www.marebalticum.se/index.htm
- Skämtskylten "Kitêbxaneya Kurdî" menas "Bibliotek". lurar
myndigheterna, men det kan inte lura eller locka folket p.g.a. stället är
utanför city-centrum, ligger på en ö, viktigaste orsaken är det saknas böcker
där inte bara Judisk Krönika eller andra propagand materiell som Menorah. "
"Birêvebirîya komeleyê ji van kesan pêk tê: serok Kalli Klement, sekreter Ove
Rådberg, muhasîb Lisa Nordström, endam Eugen Schoulgin, Marie-Hélène Boccara,
Suzanne Osten û Birgitta Wallin, Per Ahlmark, Cordelia Edvardson, Jackie
Jacubowski och (adopted criminal Hirvatian&Ethiopian Jew, in the prison
nowadays) Jackie Arklöv med flera i detta Kitêbxaneya Kurdî", säger i sitt
språk. Expanderar genom hjäp av välsorterad kollaboratorer av judiska
insamlingen:
http://www.ijk-s.se/svejud/sejud.htm
- Neo Fascist Zionist, vad som låter väldigt smart uppfinning att
samla pengar av både lättlurade stackare flyktingar och godtrogna svenska
folket. Vart tog vägen då 8 miljoner kronor som direkt hamnade Nedims händer???
Ingen visste!?.. Varför den Framtidens kultur stiftelsen så förtegen om detta?
Kanske har de ingen am´ning om varandras adresser eller telefonnummer då bör man
tillägga här:
Kitêbxaneya Kurdî , Skeppsholmen, Stockholm, tel 00.46.8.679 88 03 och fax
00.46.8. 679 88 04. Stiftelsen framtidens kultur, Glunten, 751 83 Uppsala, tel.
00.46.18. 17 19 40 och fax 00.46.18. 17 19 41, plus den kända
urkundsförfalskaren judisk-fanatiska propagandsbrottslingen, (efterlyst i Polen)
Julian Iljitzki, Djäknegatan 91, 754 25 Uppsala; Kristian Gerner, one other
famous bastard of Zion clan, Historieförfalskare i Institutionen för
östeuropastudier, Uppsala Uni., Gamla Torget 3, Box 514, 751 20 Uppsala. Phone:
0.46.18.4710000 Fax 00.46.18.106397. mm. Dessa enögda fascister som bildat det
falska Kitêbxaneya Kurdî, eller s.k. Zionistiska församlingens andra platsen som
ligger på Slupskjulsvägen 26, 111 49 Stockholm... Varför då på en ö?... Såhär
många rika judar skulle inte kunna fixa en riktig läsesalen i stan? Eller hur?
Det är otroligt för att äkta kurdiska bibliotekets säte är Frankrike som funnits
i legala bibliotekens filialakatalogen såhär:Bibliothèque??? Jo, det finns ett
riktigt legalt " European Kurdish Library" i Paris:
http://www.institutkurde.org/ikpweba/biblio/bib.htm "Kurdish Library of
Neo-Zionists" i Stockholm är ett ren falskt, provocativt samröre, uppger de
oberoende källlorna genom citera lite av det europeisk-kurdiska biblioetekets
pampfletter: "Catalogue of books available at the Paris Kurdish Institute's
Library over 6.000 titles listed by FileMaker data base. The Kurdish Institute
maintains the largest Kurdish library in the Western world. At present
it possesses 6,423 monographs on the Kurds, in 23 languages, several tens of
thousands of writings, collections of periodicals and newspapers, photos, videos
as well as an archive of sounds and musical recordings. Address of this legal
Kurdish Library: Fondation reconnue d'utilité publique 106, rue La Fayette,
75010 Paris. Tél. : 00.33.1.48 24 64 64 - Fax : 00.33.1 48 24 64 66 Other
contact possibilities on: http://www.fikp.org E-post:
ikp@fikp.org ... ... Neo-Nedim som förnyat sin bostad också. Här är den extra
lägenhets address: Nedîm Dagdeviran Per Lindeströms väg 76, 121 46 Johanneshov
Tel. 00.46.8. 556 223 23 eller Tel. & fax 00.46.8. 556 224 24 Första adressen
har blivit kvar i katalogen som tillhör första frun (tel: 00.46.8. 774 73 54;
fax: 00.46.8. 711 0836 ) som låtsas-skilda att få något sort extra bidrag av de
svenska korrumperade myndigheterna. ... ... Nedims
"outlawed son" har den tredje lägenheten också under förfalskade uppgifter och
tävlar med pappan genom fusk t.ex. "Invandrarföreningen" osv. Han heter Mehmet
Tayfun som använder f.d. mammans efternamn, Tayfun, (code name is: Malmisanij in
the occupied Middle East. Malmisanij has been wanted both in Syria, Armenia and
Irak...) bor i Spånga, driver den låtsas verksamheten författarföreningen,
Hyppingeplan 21, 163 62 Spånga Tel 00.46.8. 760 69 38 Projekt: Sionisternas
Hatikva-samröre Framtidens dominerande kultur stiftelsen betalade 30 000 kr som
första symboliska delen av tjänsten för att korrumpera vissa lättköpta
kriminella varelser. Summan betalades i handen av Nedim Dagdeviren i Uppsala.Det
blev ju bara driskgeld p.g.a. efteråtfått han otroliga bidrag av olika
sionvänliga kretsar bl.a. statens (vilka krafternas stat) kulturråd osv. Den
ökända tjuven Nedim Dagdeviren som blivit anställd (ordförande, utan
bibliotekarieutbildning) i det påhittighetens mästarverk mötesplatsen. Det är
en samlingslokal och handlingsplats i verkligheten. De förrädiska kurderna som
huvudaktörer hos människosmugglarna, verksamma judiska kretsarnas all smutsiga
affärer som driver ett extra reservkontor i denna byggnaden. Den är judiska
samröregängets hemsida som avslöjar att hur det kontraktet finansierats i
början: Neo-Zionist Nedim avslöjar sitt kriminella förflutet, erkänner att hotas
av minst 10-års fallande dömar både i Turkiet, Syria och Iraq. Avslöjan läsas på
Internet: http://www.dds.se/dms/50ar/print3_4.htm
Enligt hans egen version; "Bakgrund: Nedîm Dagdeviren, född 1953 i
Bismil-Kurdistan. Jag var medlem i det kurdiska ungdomsförbundet DDKD. När domen
på tio års fängelse föll, hade vi flytt över gränsen till Syria. Därifrån kom vi
till Sverige. Det var 1983. Ordet är vår själ. I Turkiet försvarade jag det när
det förbjöds, spred det när det undanhölls." Lögn, lika listig som Elie
Wiesel!.. Hans version har brist till sanna orsaker och den här är sanningen:
Den kriminella tjuven lurade svenska myndigheter bl.a. Invandrarverket. Turkiska
oberoende källor bl.a. hans f.d. bästa vän Keya uppger att han fängslades aldrig
trots han han hävdar att han fick straff i tio år. Han anklagades för stöld,
plundring av armeniernas kvarvarande förmögen, mordsförsök osv. Alla dessa
händelser visar sig att han ljugit om politiska motivet vad som ligger i hans
pärm hos f.d. Invandrarverket. Han flydde till Syrien 1983. I samma år begick
han liknande brott där och flytt vidare till Europa genom förfalskade papper,
pass, intyg. Sverige som var ett enda landet som accepterade den kriminiella
tjuven och medföljande gruppen som "nysvenskar"!!! Nedim Dagdeviren fick tur
att få jobb trots han aldrig studerade i Turkiet som skulle utbildas till
bibliotekarie osv d.v.s. hans betyg var också förfalskade som alla andra
skurkaktiga medföljande tjuvar. Skurken är ordförande i biblioteket och hans
kålsupare driver liknande centrumet i Uppsala som förråder vårt land. Keko Izol
har mycket att avslöja men denne medlöparens (andra klass förfalskare-judevän)s
språk räckte inte... (Ni får ju publicera denna info. på något sätt... Mvh.
Gunilla P.) ... ... .... SvekJa Kingdom har massor kurdiska föreningar som
mestadels inte kunnig om vad sionistiska faran betyder, hur de kollabortorna
åtgärdas? Någon borde informera dessa lurade kurdmedlemmar:
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Borlänge Sturegränd 11, 784 32 Borlänge
- Kurdiska Spor Föreningen Box 152 16, 161 15 Bromma
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Borås Box 11129, 507 11 Borås
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Eskilstuna Box 14595, 630 14 Eskilstuna
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Falköping Box 146, 521 02 Falköping
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Falun box 6010, 791 06 Falun
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Helsinborg Visitörsg. 13, 252 47 Helsingborg
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Gävle Box 1277, 801 37 Gävle
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Göteborg Box 11102, 404 23 Göteborg
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Hudiksvall Valv. 15, 824 42 Hudiksval
- Kurdiska Kultur och Solidaritetsföreningen Box 225, 175 02 Järfälla
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Jönköping Box 8043, 550 08 Jönköping
- Kurdiska Kultur Klubben Box 130, 691 22 Karlskoga
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Karlstad Fagog. 11, 654 70 Karlstad
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Kristinstad Bataljonv.40, 291 37 Kristinstad
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Linköping Box 657, 582 07 Linköping
- Kurdiska Handikappsföreningen i Linköping Box 657, 582 07 Linköping
- Kurdiska Kulturföreningen i Luleå Box 170, 971 05 Luleå
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Lund Box 1633, 221 01 Lund
- Kurdistans Fredsförening i Malmö Fosilv. 29 B, 7 tr. 214 31 Malmö
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Malmö N.Gränsbergsg. 4, 214 55 Malmö
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Märsta c/o Gharib Adil, Sleipersg 40, 195 54 Märsta
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Norrköping Kungsgatan 26, 602 20 Norrköping
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Nynäshamn Box 266, 149 23 Nynäshamn
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Sala-Häby Box 165, 733 30 Sala
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Sandviken Box 3070, 811 33 Sandviken
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Spånga Box 4118, 163 04 Spånga
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Stockholm Box 49090, 100 28 Stockholm
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Sundsvall Box 6025, 850 06 Sundsvall
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Trollhätten Box 6043, 461 06 Trollhätten
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Umeå Box 257, 901 06 Umeå
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Upplandsväsby Björkvalav. 29, 194 36 Upplandsväsby
- Kurdistans Förening Uppsala Box 308, 750 03 Uppsala
- Svensk Kurdsike Föreningen i Uppsala Box 25065, 750 25 Uppsala
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Västerås Box 1369, 720 13 Västerås
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Örebro Box 537, 701 50 Örebro
- Kurdiska Föreningen i Östersund Box 668, 831 27 Östersund, mm mm
- Why they listed all these Kurdish organisations?
- Just a minute!... Listen to the Svekish version first!...
- Man bör fråga om vem som betalar alla dessa skandinaviens omfattande lokalers
hyror? Varför? Älskar kapitalistiska regimer de konfliktdrabbade länders folk så
mycket? - I wonder!.. Who pays the hires all of the marionette leagues'
offices? And why?..
- That is wonderful question!.. I witnessed, the Jew controlled municipalities
paying all these satellite leagues hire bills... I wonder on the future all of
the members of these headquartes... But, excuse me I' continue in Svekish
language, again... - You are welcome!.. - Well!... När det
gäller sätta på jobbet de medlemmarna av dessa, varför då försvinner
generösiteten utan ifrågasättas de som och diskrimineras en del livet ut så
cyniskt sätt för att "mörka kraftersliknande" verksamheten REGISTRERAR
MÄNNISKOR, speciellt de som är kritiska mot systemet och som beskrivits att inte
lydiga hos den sionistiska imperialismen???
- Vi vanliga medborgare borde vara verkligen vänliga och orka satsa på att
upplysa allmänheten, omedelbart, ifrågasätta vad den enorma satsningen,
systemlydna omorganisationen betyda!
- Sources?
- Svensk Encyclopedia on Internet:; plus, judestyrda trasor som Dagens Nyheter,
Expressen, Menorah, Judisk krönika etc.
- Do you know about John Bennet?
- No!... Tell us, please!
- He is my mainly living source like all others... I want to tell all these
persons... First, John BENNET... We listen to the cassette, then I'll continue
to translate.... Let's continue with the "characters" issue!.. Australiensisk
yttrandefrihetskämpe och revisionist, medlem i Australian Civil Liberties Union.
Uppsala Nya Tidning/artikelserien om "Bergman-affären": Jan Bergman är Professor
i religionshistoria, egyptolog, text-exeget mm. som arbetar vid Uppsala
university. Bergman var inkallad som försvarsvittne i samband med
Rami-rättegången 1989, och vittnade bl.a. om hur judendomen använder sig av
religiösa påbud för att legitimera bruk av våld och mord på icke-judar. Som ett
resultat av att han med sin kompetens och kunskap vågade visa på den judiska
rasismen, beslutade sig judarna för att försöka krossa Bergman, och drog igång
en kampanj, den sk. Bergman-affären, mot Uppsala university. En kampanj som
fortgår alltjämt idag, och vars syfte är att krossa Bergman, beröva hans
akademiska rang, smutskasta honom och sätta ett avskräckande exempel. Den
judiska arrogansen gav dock en motsatt effekt och väckte istället ett medvetande
inom Uppsala university om den judiska makten och hur den verkar. För mer info
bör man läsa Ahmed Rami's bok "Judisk Häxprocess" där Bergmans omtalade
vittnesmål finns publicerat. Läs gärna också Bergmans artikel publicerad i
Upsala Nya Tidning: "Kampanj mot min person" heter rubriken... Kan fräckheten
vara traditionell hos någon annan folkstamm? "Vikingabarbariet kan jämföras med
kanske men, på dett kan man inte tävla med judar", avslöjar dessa fräcka
fascisters egna kommittén i sin egen version som heter The Encyclopedia Jude.
Den här attityd betecknas Chutzpah: (shutzpeh, schutzpah, schutzpeh, shutzpah,
shutzpeh...) Den judiska fräckheten. Ett exempel är enligt "Encyclopaedia
Judaica" sonen som dödade sina föräldrar och senare vände sig till
församlingskassan för att få bidrag som föräldralös. Cordelia Edvardson: Judisk
Ockupied Middle East's korrespondent på Svenska Dagbladet. Vann det stora
journalistpriset 1983. Israelisk medborgare och författarinna till boken
"Brännt barn söker sig till elden" om hennes upplevelser under andra
världskriget i s.k. "förintelse" (hurdan Förintelse, alla klarade överleva och
hon såldes i verkligheten som 14 åring hora till svenska bordeller)... Hennes
son är med i den judiska arméns fallskärmsjägartrupper (som dricker palestinska
barnens blod som äkta pappan SS-trupper...). Ulf Ekman: Pastor och judisk
bastard- "führer" för Livets Ord och fanatisk Zionist Mafia-vän, har bl.a.
skrivet boken "Judarna - Framtidens folk", där han visar hur det är vår plikt
som icke-judar att slava för det judiska folket - till sin hjälp för att
förklara detta citerar Ekman bibelcitat från den judiska bibeln - Torahn. Typisk
religiös kollaboratör fascist i branschen av kristen-Nazi-Zionist triangel.
Förenade Israelinsamlingen - Keren Hayesod: En mäktig judisk organisation, med
global täckning och lokalavdelningar över hela världen. Arbetar med att samla in
pengar till den s k Zionist military Mafia USrael genom
pengainsamlingar och donationer från förmögna judar i "diasporan". Den svenska
lokalavdelningen har en egen tidning som heter "Menorah". Goj: (goy, pluralis.
gojim el. goyim) Nedlåtande judisk beteckning på icke-judar. Synonymt med
"boskap", "kreatur" enligt dem, den form av fascist syn relaterat med judiska
uttrycket "Shabbaz Goj".
- This an enormous double moral machine, it stinks much more in last time...
Machine has two sides; a side of these lobbies discrimate persons and recruits
only the selected loyal members in false democracy areas and second one side of
the troops going to eliminate people on the occupied areas... A soft side and a
bloody backside of an enorms process...
- Look at the AMS, for example it worjks like a kind of mniature model of Nobel
committees; here the persons get first true jobs, who licks the ass of zionist
chiefs.. Meantime these authorities discriminate the honoured intellectuals... I
met well-known examples, jobless academicians too.. There are many persons much
more talented than COETZEEE and Mammele EBADI, there are much more Humanist
Jurists, Humanist Poems, Writers who are the victims of satellite regimes..
These pursued heroes really show engagement on many areas but these pursued
persons are still under heavy persecution process... I met the true heroes of
human rights, been jobless because they never collaborated with the judaized
Imperilaism.. I know many living examples, sice 15 years going jobless... Many
of them used in the laboratories, many of them are not aware...
- Many of them above listed offices and leagues, too.. They have been used as
animals in the laboratories, but they don't aware on such process..
- You mean the false "Jobbcentrum Vårberg"?.. - Such ridiculous process
centres of hypocrisy system... - I understand!.. All these registrated
intellectuals handled more cruel than non-talented immigrants...Because,
imperialism afraid of the brains at work nor the "living creatures"...
- Sweden has at least an half million registrated jobless... Massdiscrmination,
human and no single one "jobseeker Jew"... Like a kind of dynasty...
- Many pursued persons get no single one true cnace in work lihe... All life
long!.. This is a crime!...
- Discrimination is a crime, true!..
- Discrimination and persecution are the exercution of liberal capitalist
barbarity!...
- Satellites living in an ocean of double standards... They give Nobel prize to
the lapdogs and meantime don't see the reality in their own backstage..
- IWe, ordinary people are all together the animals?
- According to Jewish dogmatism; yes!... A kind of "Animaniacs", what the boss
of Swedish cultur-market describes...... If you accept that Jews are first class
human and you are animal, serious; so you can take permanent chance for recruits
in the liberalized work world...
- Now I understand better, why any selected immigrants take always chance to be
personnel in Scandinavia!..
- This is a chain!..
- Dirty and bloody chain, but you must use label "culture"!.. This is the
validity in this community which rules under Zionist domination...

**
- Why the Zionist lobbies invest for manipulative culture activities? - One
aspect of the centuries-old, and present-day, operations of the Zionists is the
undermining and ruining of the culture of other nations, the disintegration of
their distinctive national features and of their national unity. A related
aspect is their activities directed against the culture of all mankind, against
classical, harmonizing art of all kinds. Destruction, dissonance,
abstractionism, surrealism and other nastinesses are elevated into a principle.
This is then declared to be the last word in culture; those who do not accept it
are defamed as being retrogrades, as not understanding modern art, and so forth.
The consciousness and psychology of the masses are ruined. This applies both to
any particular nation, and to all mankind. The nature of the "cultural
activities" of the Zionists lies in depriving all the Gentile nations of their
particular national roots, as well of their roots in a general human sense. That
is the nature of the Zionists' so-called cosmopolitanism. The current decline of
culture and art in Russia is very directly related to the ruinous work of
Zionism, and is the direct work of Zionism's hands. In large matters as in
small, Zionists are everywhere taking control of the organs of administration of
culture, art, education and science, and are performing relevant work in a
manner suitable to Zionism. Specifically, the art of a nation, and the roots of
a nation's soul, are being perverted, vulgarized and coarsened. This is done
shamelessly and effectively. They take their activities to the stage where a
Russian, for example, (and unfortunately this is no rarity) will say: "I can't
stand Russian songs!" The point is that he has been and still is being served a
specially prepared surrogate. The songs which are passed off as the songs of a
nation frequently bear no relation to the true art of that nation. They are
either minor pieces of work, or imitations, or things which have been specially
corrupted and perverted. Moreover, man has for a long time been sustainedly torn
away from his national roots. He is to a large extent already denationalized and
will consequently better absorb that substitute for culture which is of benefit
to Zion because it works on people in the spirit which Zion desires.
**

- Nobel prize is the bigger process by all of such cultural weapons...
- A strong advocate of Zionism, Gerald Kaufmann, heads the panel of judges for
the Booker Prize. Other members of the panel are John Sutherland, Natasha
Walter, Shena Mckay and Boyd Tonking. There were several factors other than
literary excellence that influenced the selection for the prize wrote Paul
Bailey, a noted literary critic, recently. He cited the examples of Salman
Rushdie and Vikram Seth who, despite their lack of literary talent, were awarded
the prize earlier.
This year's prize was awarded to the South African writer, J.M Coetzee. The
Egyptian writer Ahdaf Soueif was the most deserving among the final list of the
writers. The judges considered her novel, 'The Map of Love', a rare piece of
literary excellence, according to Bailey. Yet she was denied the prize.
Analyzing the reasons for her disqualification, Prof. Sutherland considers that
her hostile sentiments toward the Zionist movement could have prompted Kaufmann
to adopt a unfavorable stand against her. Kaufmann's past as a zealous Jewish
activist underpins this suspicion. He was born and brought up among Jewish
zealots. After completing his education at Leeds, he entered politics. He was
elected a Labor MP in 1970. Prime Minister Harold Wilson, noted for his Zionist
tilt, included him among his confidants. Spotting his talent combined with his
dedication to the Zionist movement, Wilson allowed Kaufmann to prepare his
speeches on special occasions. During the Six-Day War, Kaufmann carried secret
letters between the Prime Minister's office and Israel's ambassador Aharon
Remez. This act, in fact, amounted to espionage and treason against Britain.
Kaufmann's memoirs also shed light on the biased British stand toward Israel in
1967 war. Kaufmann criticized the neutral stand taken by Edward Heath's
Conservative government in the 1973 Middle East war. He also expressed his
displeasure over the government's ban on the sale of weapons to Israel,
considering it the aggressor. The then Conservative government also denied
American planes carrying weapons to Israel permission to land or refuel in
British airports. Kaufmann also accused Foreign Secretary Sir Alec Douglas Home
of anti-Semitism because of his bold stand in the General Assembly on this
issue. Later Kaufmann paid a visit to Israel in order to express his sympathy
and apology for the matter. Menahem Begin, the veteran terrorist leader, wanted
to meet Kaufmann in particular and express his personal gratitude to Kaufmann
for the services offered by him to Israel, Kaufmann's 'true motherland,' by
committing treason against Britain, his native country.
On Kaufmann's becoming the shadow foreign secretary for Labor in 1987, the Arabs
expressed their deep concern over the matter. He did not want to lose his post
because of the displeasure of the Arabs. Therefore Kaufmann began to appear as a
supporter of Palestinian self-determination. His attitude toward the Zionist
movement, however, did not undergo any change. He called Zionism a movement for
cultural liberation.
The fact that Salman Rushdie got the prize because of his venomous attack on
Islam and Ahdaf Soueif was denied it because of her Arab identity makes one
wonder whether a writer's attitude toward Islam and Arabs is the decisive factor
in winning the Booker Prize

**

- I understand, such kinky system gave prizes to its own doggies, nothing
else... - It's true!.. And then this Jewish provocator propagandist lapdog
"Jabotinsky Nut" COETZEE won (!!!) NOBEL prize 2003. - Well, it's not
only to the fake literature of an zion "gentle fascist" bastard; frankly it's an
extra prize to the South African mobilize assassination leagues who joined to
realize "well-planned cleansing" Olof PALME, too... - Like a kinky film
clip, a scenario on the Hypo-Culture Crisis of the zion infected Western shurk
intellectuality. - It realized at the least!.. This is the
"schutzpach", Jewish freaknness...

**
- What are you thinking on these incredible scenes? - We must know that
our weakness is Imperialism's strength, I understand here again... - I agree
with you, Comrade Jonas Hållén! - You are welcome, Comrade Lars Törnman!
**
- I think, democracy should work better!.. Criminals and collaborators should be
arrested!
- Should we arrest the criminals?!. Don't make me laugh! - Well, I see the
double roles and false rules of the juridical instruments... What a shame we
been forced to label it "democracy"... How thus majority of people, thus living
creators, stinky mass could be so incredible nonsense blind meanwhile all the
enormous fraudulent process?!.. Unbelieveable!... This is a glaring
injustice!.. I wonder, what goes wrong by the juridical instruments... How can I
say?! It is very strange!... You now, if you see all these incredible cases,
nonsense attitudes... - How? Do you explain? What is concrete that you
remember? - Yes, I remember that David Janzon, a redactional worker of Radio
Islam, was sentenced to 4 months' imprisonment in October 1992, for the
station's agitation "against an ethnic group". Are the provocators of Capitalist
Fascist lobbies are really a ethnical group?! - There is so specially
groups? Okay, Jews!... It's the overclass group, nobody can imitate such
shurks... - But when you been oppressed so your accusation can only
be refuseed... The shurks are the masters 'cause they experinced a lot of cruel
methodes since many years... You can only suffer like many freedom fighters...
- Concrete cases? - Very much!... The judges of system who play dirty
rolls... It is extra incredible on Swedish justice-scenes that many foolish
judges been corrupted by Jewish authorities and they play extra horrible rolls
as pycho-proff doctor magister at policlinics... I can not meet all the judges
nor observate all the cases but I met many high-staff at Golf Club Tenerrife,
they explained... Shameful!... I can not explain here what they say on the
corrpted colleges, so awfully shameful... ... Court material look likes
simetrical sences, reasons are too similarly... Many papers of court been
published by the Bonniers, Nordstedt... Same mechanism publish as basic Zionist
propagand material, too... EU-membership... After 1995 impressed it by the
democratical authorities of other countries? - Unfortunately, it's in all
frauds, much more dirty now... If any true jurist goes to United Nations related
commissions or the independent justice authorities, so we shall most interesting
scandals... - What kind of scandals? - For instance Osmo
Vallo&Tony Mutka and other members of the "assassination on the so called
Resande Folket" cases... Märta Pettersson and others who murdered by the
"imported criminals" like Bengalian Zionist Mafia moblized in the EU; similarly
recruitment cases... Remember; what the relatiives of Tony Deogan, Dagmar
Hagelin, Anders Gustavsson demand... - Don't make me worry with
examles, don't list please much more!.. - It's not me who create the
official shame lists!.. Did you hear Osmo Vallo's two brothers and all other
relatives are arrested, too... The victims and witness been arrested instead of
murderers... Otherway, many freedom fighters forced to be jobless and living
under minimal standards... Most famous concret case is Stefan Dimiter
Tcholakov who labelled as "laborious" and Work Rights fighters Jimmie
Östergren, delegated adviser (former grafiker) Bengt Pettersson and Ahmed Rami,
because of these bravehearts criticized the thieves by the Capitalist Jewish
lobbies... Laponians who fight for own mark and minority rights, therefore
prisoned their representative character Olof T. Johansson, the true Socialists
like Bengt Frejd, Sara Lidman, Staffan Ehnebom, so-called the "Free Speech
Fighters", anti-Capitalist demonstranter like Jan Hatto, Sten Arne-Zerpe,
Dietlieb Felderer, movements who struggle against the weapon-handlers like
Henrik Westander (before professur-chair gift) and by his side likely flexible
Calle Höglund, anti-Imperialists Hannes Westberg, Herman Schmid, journalists
Staffan Beckman, Stefan Hjertén, free-mind intellectuals like Rainer Holm, Linus
Brohult, honoured priest K. G. Hammar and hundreds of the anti-Imperialists who
been registrated by the lobbies... - What is common with them?
- Also! When a Fascist accuse them so judges punish the reviewers,
immediately... But when the oppressed people leave any accusation acceptance,
can easily be refuseed ... The requests of them almost been absolutely
refuseed... - Why the DN, Expressen and other big papers awoid of to
publich these true stories?.. They awoid of to show the real discrimination?!
Schindler's List was only a filmatic illusion, actually the true boss never gave
a chance peace in communities... You know, Bonniers, Wallenberg,
Bilderberg-gangs and "Bulldogs" drive the Swindlers' lists, means all the
honoured intellectuals been registrated on their computers... Therefore
Stockholm-Canberra changed to be second plot area of Jew York-Tel Aviv's armed
Mafia... - Yes, it's!.. But what a lucky I have been warned before!.
- The authorities are blind on such actions.. Why? - Because every big
shurk drives by the big lobbies in this big SvekJa zionized Kingdom... - ?!
- How can we could informed and know the truth!?... - I can't reply all in
two minutes?! - Well!... I understand better... It's a modernised
version of enormous hypocrisy... And I understand why the worlkd couldn't react
when Jews slaughed people in Sabra, Shatila, Jenin... Everybody watched on tv
meanwhile druck Coca-Cola, chips, bonbons... - Like the film-druged idiots?..
- No, Sir!... We have incredible reactions and collaborated feelings too,
remember, we all cried when we watched on the Swindler's list, whole lies
master-piece on scenes... - Shame on double-moral masters!.. Where are the
all good peoples now?! - No way to Pessimism, please!.. Well, I see a
positive case here on the Scandinavian Jewish DN, Expressen, Menorah pages;
Maximum sentence for the desecration of cemeteries - an outrage which
traditionally targeted Jewish cemeteries - was raised from 6 months'
imprisonment to 2 years. Yes, the prisonment period raised in 1993, Spring.
Then... - It should not calls for case; it's provocation... There is no any
single case in SvekJa, means nobody sentenced, nobody improsined for
desecrations.. - Maximum sentence will be 2 years! Isn't good? - I
want not talk on the sentences good or not good... But I'm coming from Skaane
and I witnessed who targeted the cemeteries... - Who? -
Jews!... I saw them... They were there and porovoced very succesful so they
manipulated sitation... Therefore there is no prisoner after this pharagraph '
cause they aimed change the rules... - I remember a similarly case,
my mother witnessed and told us about the foxy Jews who played theatre at the
street on 30 November in Germania... It was before WW III, Jewish fanatics
crashed own glass and won enormous generous compensation by the reasurance
firms... But their media manipulated the world by the help of american
Imperialism so all the analphabets crying on every 30 September worldwide, every
year like a crying festival, meantime the Zionist boss' laughing behind the
windows...
**
- This is not the Cold War but a form of ongoing Cold War, what drives now by
the lobbies... This area demands the prejudiced scientists... - Why the
oppressed folk don't protest or discuss these problems... - Ever and never!
This is not the results of the football matches... People need knowledge on
biological developments... - Biological? Bur the lobotomies and
sterilization methodes were only in last century?! - System have now most
avanced methodes for instance isolation, registration and systematically
injustice... Only two tousand youngs become suicide in SvekJa Kingdom, two times
been a short news.. - Youngs?... But adults? - They never
counts by half officially pools.... Animal lover bourgeoisie have
sex-partner-dogs, counts for identification and health rights, but not the
discriminated persons... Never mind!... - There aren't really a single
one modernized democratical institution?
- ?! ** - I wonder why many
immigrants sets to work without language courses meanwhile many others been
discriminated because of their language is not "wonderful, brilliant"?.. - I
met many people too... For example after Warszawa pakt's collapse fleed
manybiologs to the occupied Middle East, Australia, SvekJa and specially the
laboratory workers sets on the jobs without any oppression... - Did you
found any explain about this subject?.. - Not directly... I met a family
in SvekJa, who calls for BOLDTs, escaped from Baltics by the way of so-called
"official Al Capone Raoul Wallenberg" Co's false Finnish pass and corrupted
authorities in Kingdom by the way of Jewish lobbies... A cunning mature, drives
"Invandrar Publications"... She explained that all these scientists had already
one or two international languages what been respected... - She lies!.. I
know a writer, know six or seven language but SvekJa system set him too the
cleaner-catch boy courses... - Yes; I understand... Jolin replied this
case too; "maybe the writer criticised the oligarchical targets..." -
And she publish these subjects on the Invandrar Tidningen? Bravo!... - You
will be chocked; she help to the lobbies to registrate opposite... - Was she
biology-worker in Baltics... - No!... But system need such families to
follow the people and therefore she didn't go to the claenar courses and nor any
language course although her vocabulary is worst when I compare with other
immigrants... Nowadays fixed this family a credit possbility by the lobbies and
Swedish American authorities,looks like a support to publish weekly propagand
bulletin, called "Sesam"... - Is it a propagand bulletin which the
redacteurs in Jew York recommended? - Yes!... Worst and most dangerous in the
world... - Do you explain; what you discovered by Sesam or chief Jolin
Boldt or Jusek/jurists' judadominated syndical sect media runs by Göran Boldt
Co. although this zionist gang never had a single one scientist in the
family!.. - Yes, it's!.. But such chiefs are clever to use the regularly
credits of system... I am an ordinary people and regularly reading all the
issues of Sesam/Jusek falsification magazines and look at on these pages, what
these gangsters provoce: "Immigrants always have problems.. They must complete
their education and integrate to the democratical values..." Very
provocative...It means if you never been accepted as true citizen so you must
think that your education is low, complete it... If immigrated person is
non-judaic originated must complete cources to be disher, even if man is
professor.. But other immigrant who came from Warszawa and presented himself as
academician, accepted to be professor wit´hout a true diplom.. If you criticize
this dirty deal, riskable to be labelled that you collapsed on integration...
- A kind of tregistrated psycho? - Definitely!.. This is a nonsense
market... The masters of this neo-liberal "smiling fascist process" show no
pardon... Since many years the Swedish immigrant publications run by the fascist
zionist readcteurs, collaborators and inseminate false imagination... This is a
insemination what the Zionist Fascists do against thesecond class people in Tel
Aviv... In SvekJa Kingdom, by this shurk-coup drivessame project... Look at
these pages, even the Laponians counts like the second class people and never
discuss serious their minority rights, work rights by the industrial
investigations of Kingdom... They handled often like the Gypsies,more worst;
they handled like prisoners on its own marks like the Palestinians who prisoned
his own haoses there in the occupied Middle East... Do you discussuor rights
here on Immigrant pages? Never... Boldt have credit by Spaarbank and Nordea's
Jew chiefs... Why? Because, Boldt-gang is the best flexible which uses like a
condom against Human Rights...According of these shurks there is no any Zionist
Occupational Gang in the world, but Palestinians been counted as problematics...
Palestinians described like the immigrants there, what the oppressed people
behandles here in SvekJa Kingdom... Boldt and her lap-dogs manipulate the
questions of immigrants and never answer thequestions although there is two
pages for responses... - I know a Jewish paper in USA, redacteur send
letters himself and replies later instead of the true readers... -
Similar tactic!... What Big Brother do, Swedish hypocrites just imitate it...
Not only this fetty imbecill's Sesam, all other creit-addicted papers
administrations making copies of ordinary people's letters... mostly all these
half-officially "Invandrar" publication industry "brain washing instruments on
the immigrants" running on this line... what thelobbies, so-called
"registrationsnamnden" and the colla

Amanda Shamansons NOBEL CHARLATANRY=SCIENTICAL MASKED MULTI-FUNCZIONAL PROSTITUTION of JUDAIZED IMPERIALISM..(This Saga begins with the English language version) 10-11-2003 10:53

RANDALL,

Why did the Hebrews plagurize from Summaria? Yes they both tell of a great flood, but could it just be possible they are both describing the same event from their different perspectives? Why is it that the Summarians have it down more accurately than the Hebrews? Are you sure of that? Maybe, just maybe the Hebrews have it right, and the Summarians screwed it up. Maybe some of their scholars or politians went in and messed with it for their own nafarious purposes, just like the early church fathers supposedly did to the New Testament. You do remember that Abraham came from Ur of the Chaldees which was part of the same culture as the Summarians. There are accounts of a great flood all over the world. Some North American Indian tribes also tell of a great flood.

I have been through college, and I have heard it all. I read about how King David actually doctored the Bible so that people would forget he was an usurper. I have heard how Jesus did not die on the cross at all, but was whisked away from his believers. He married Mary Magdalene and from their offspring came the great royal houses of Europe. Any more suppostions? Throw them out there. There are millions of them.

The truth is that none of it can be proved, not the Biblical accounts, and not the rantings of all the clever fools in academia and on the Notebook.

Question: Where were we all when that history was taking place? Where were we when the earth began?

Truth is that the Bible makes many remarkable claims. These prophesies will either come to pass or they will not. Funny thing is that the establishment of Israel did come to pass. Of course there is a very logical explanation for that. Another extraordinary thing is that Jesus's ministry and the details of his life were written about centuries before he actually appeared. But of course, some unseen human hand probably worked things out to make it look that way. Come on, can a man be raised from the dead? Can a baby be born of a virgin? Ridiculous, isn't it.

Well, there were 120 people who saw Jesus after his crucifixion, and from their witness comes the beginnings of the Christian faith. People who walked with him and lived with him for three years gave an account of Jesus and quoted his words. A physician who had never met Jesus collected accounts and stories about him and wrote them down. Do I believe these people? Yes, I do, because none of them claimed to be wise. They were normal everyday people who encountered God in the person of Jesus Christ and were filled with the Holy Spirit. They did not have to clever, strong, or righteous for this honor. They just had to believe and submit. Simple as that. Too simple.

I am not very smart. Sometimes I fool myself into thinking I am, and once in awhile, I fool a few other people as well. All I know is that in all my observations of human behavior that there is nothing that describes it all so well as the Bible. Out of all the religions of the world that I am familiar with, nothing soothes and heals like the words in the Bible. I have prayed very specific prayers to have them miraculously answered. I have had hands laid on a cyst that would not heal. Within twenty four hours, that cyst was gone.

And when have I felt God's presence the most? When I have acknowledged my need of him. I cannot begin to describe the feel of the room when I have prayed to him. I have asked for confirmations, explanations, and have had them, every single time.

I have read with interest all the stuff thrown around, and I identify with much of it, for in the past I thought many of the same things. There was a time, MEL, when I could not accept that nice people who did not have a personal relationship with Christ could go to hell. Well I was always a nice person, but before I invited Christ into my life I was well on my way there, and I got close enough to know it exists, because we see shadows of it in this world. All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God. And the wages of sin are death. But Christ took that sin upon himself on the cross and shed his blood so that upon repentance we might come before God cleansed of that sin. Without that cleansing, we will never stand in God's presence, and we will pay the price for sin, and that is spiritual death, burning in hell, what have you. Those who do not accept Christ's atoning are not written in the Lamb's book of life because they die with their sins on them. They don't even have to worship beasts and idols, they simply reject Jesus's sacrifice and free gift and do not give their lives to him. That alone, and nothing else is what sends people to Hell. That is not politically correct and it is not comfortable and I don't like believing that anymore than anyone else, but that is what the Bible says, and without the Bible, RANDALL, you cannot really be a Christian and believe the witness there, because the only direct account there is of Christ, is the Bible, and if you do not believe that you have nothing solid to base a Christian faith on.

TEEKAY,

I have looked at many faiths and have entertained them on some level or degree, but they all came up short. I know my sinful nature. I know my shortcomings, and I cannot rein them in by my wisdom or by my will power or by my good intentions. But God gives me the power to overcome these things. If I am lazy and don't read the Bible or don't pray and spend time with God, then I fall into my old sinful pattern. God has taken the foolish things of this world to confound the wise, and I am the most foolish of them all.

The first step to coming to God is realizing your need of him. Admit you don't have all the answers. Then you have to be willing to accept him just as he reveals himself to you, acknowledging him as your creator and the one who knows the hearts and minds of every human being who ever lived. Do any of you believe that there is a God or anyone who knows all hearts and minds? Do any of you believe that there is anyone out there who knows you inside out. Is there anyone in this universe who knows your secrets, your desires, your hurts, your private little vices? Do any of you believe that there is a being, a person capable of righting every wrong? Is there someone to whom we are all accountable? Is there someone who cares about the poor, seemingly faceless people all around the world? Boy, I hope so. Actually I know so.

Just my musings for all they are worth.

Rhoda 10-11-2003 1:03

TEEKAY -- tonsillitis?!? Yikes! Not much fun there. I had mine out when I was seven. Same doctor took out my wife's tonsils -- after we were married! Then the same doc took out our four daughters' tonsils -- all under the age of two. No more ear infections for our kids!
He was quite a character -- in his late 70s he tried to light the pilot on the water heater in his basement. It exploded, and blew him across the basement, slamming him into the wall. He got up, shook himself off, and called the plumber. Had a couple of broken ribs, but was okay. He never retired until he was in his 80s, then died a couple of years later.

howard 10-10-2003 23:27

Randall

Hey!

Beautiful, but wet week in central Texas...

A comment on the religion discussion now underway.

I do, that is, DO NOT have a problem with belief in God as the Creator or Jesus ministry on Earth. I do, however, have a problem with the bible. Through extensive readings covering forty years I have stumbled upon many anecdotes in the bible that are of some mystery. It seems religious ideas from Sumer, Mesopotamia, Egypt or other ancient civilizations were rehashed and retold in the bible. Not original? Many incidents seem to be plagiarized (the dreaded P word!) from earlier, highly civilized cultures and not of Judeo-Christian origin. I recall an author who wrote that "virgin birth" was a common tool to emphasize the birth of someone of Godly origin and was a frequent tool in establishing a supernatural event. I believe this author mentioned Alexander the Great as an example.

Ancient Egyptians firmly believed in the afterlife and judgement. As in all cultures some ancient Egyptians seemed to be more equal than others and therefore, enormous tombs were erected. But even the lowest Egyptian sought religious rites and even mummification at exorbitant rates that would assist him or her into eternity. The disenchanted might say at the costs of funerals these days, nothing has changed in that particular regard.

Osiris, an ancient God of Egypt was attacked by evil brother-in-law Set, sealed in a coffer and tossed into the Nile. (Not surprising, as I have had trouble with a brother-in-law as well. Brother-in-laws are the same all over the world!) Some time later Set found the coffer when it washed ashore and in a mad fury cut Osiris's body into pieces and scattered them. His wife, Isis, set out to search for Osiris (who was, no doubt, feeling displaced and unwanted) in a small boat made of papyrus reeds coated with bitman and pitch. One by one she found the pieces and through efforts of the god Thoth resurrected her husband. This story was as well known to ancient Egyptians as tales from our bible. And surely known to Moses who was also cast adrift on the Nile as a baby and not to fish either. There was a belief in resurrection 5,000 years before the time of Jesus and Moses shares some parallel with the small boat of papyrus reeds.

Even more interesting, Moses "could" have been aware of Akhnaton, Egyptian Pharaoh who tried to convert Egypt to the belief of one god. Monotheism, come forth. Albeit, yes it was the sun he apparently sought to worship but at least it was one god and not multiples of gods. I mean, if you're seeking a deity 4,500 years before the birth of Jesus and getting headaches trying to figure it out ... exactly who is our god? ... the sun is one who gives the Earth the most.

Enter Sigmund Freud. Freud's last book MOSES AND MONOTHEISM dwells on this at length as related to Akhnaton. Freud considered Akhnaton "...precursor of Moses." (Immanuel Velikovsky---OEDIPUS AND AKHNATON.) No doubt regarded as a hand wringing, heretic SOB by Egyptian priests Akhnaton still showed them the door. "Goodbye and thank you very, very much and, oh, leave the keys to the temple." Akhnaton ruled for 17 years before he was ousted or murdered by incensed priests (Grin!) or died.

In addition to his apparent attempt to format worship of one god, "THOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME" poor old goofy looking Akhnaton failed but left history a well known son ... King Tutankhamen and the stunning beautiful wife we know as Nefertiti. HEY! Two outta three ain't bad!

Writers in Mesopotamia wrote of a world wide cataclysm thousands of years before the bible. Sumerians also wrote of a flood in ancient times that had destroyed the world. Both mention one worthy man and family who escaped. (No. No mention of animals that I recall.) These "floods" no doubt influenced writers of the Bible and as to where there was some one actually named Noah is anyones guess. Adding to fun on the beach ancient writings of Central Mexico and South America also mention the flood ... sans Noah and the ark. As to whether there was a flood or not is irrelevant. The flood is not or was not the literary property of the bible. Borrowed.

BUT WAIT! Oh yes I believe in God. But it seems that the Christian religion did not begin exactly as recorded in the bible or any other religious text. This DOES not take away from their teachings, but creates a lot of questions. Our failings as a people are to believe we are the end result of a 1, 2, 3 upward mobility style of history. Graham Hancock and other authors believe that there were technical civilizations 11,000 years before the birth of Christ! In Africa there is a culture who recorded that the star Sirus had a twin. A binary system! How the hell could they know that? How much of these cultures, knowledge, myth, legend and religious thought filtered down to the bible we have today. Jesus lived 2,000 years ago...will He be the same 2,000 years from now?

Carol...Red Britches is internal and eternal. He will be back.

Randall

Randall 10-10-2003 19:31

Randall

VIV...! WOW!!! I got BOTH packages. The China Doll-girl came in Tuesday...WOW!!! Only one glass panel was broken. No big deal. The boy doll came in a day later, no glass broken...but one panel had fallen inside. My wife is aghast, but pleased, and astounded!!!! That you would do such a thing for us. My daughter came in from college and promply claimed the girl. The boy...Samurai...is atop the TV looking fierce! BTW...We had a 7" rain Wednesday and during the night. Parts of Brownwood flooded. Our new store was in line for a REAL breaking in!!! Also, my computer went down for no APPARENT reason... Would this have anything to do with the two dolls not being contained as per your letter on Japanese tradition?

GREAT BIG GRIN!!!!

Since your e-mail address has mysteriously been deleted from my book please e-mail so I can thank you.

Randall

Randall 10-10-2003 19:03

Hi All,

MEL: I only interpreted the information you gave me. You look at the words you wrote and tell me, what interpretation could have been made.

My point was that the bible ( and other religions) was open to misinterpretation.
And also that there are parts that are obviously designed by men.

Of course you can believe what you like, that was never the issue.

HOWARD: "haemorroids?" That's the too lazy to look it up and spell it correctly Teekay version. Franky, I prefer to call them Herman Rods.
Or is that Hermman Rodds?? :-D

You can't come back as a Rush limbaugh or a President Bush, or a dancing bear, with, you know, those things - you come back as yourself.

BTW: Congratulations on the new Grandchild.

HOW ABOUT THIS: Yesterday I was poking around the book shop and found this book written by Michael Newton Ph.D. called Journey of Souls and it is BRILLIANT!!!!!

For anyone searching for evidence of soul survival after death then read this book.


BEN: Just a thought, but how about when the guy swipes at the stuff on the table the lighted candle (cos the room's very gloomy)lands on the girl and wax splashes on her face burning her eyes and making her blind.
I know nothing aout chemicals - I'm just brainstorming.

I have tonsilitis and it SUCKS!!!
Every time I swallow I wince. There are swollen lumps of raw pustulating meat where my tonsils once were.
Ouch!

Going...



Teekay 10-10-2003 18:53

BEN,

I just talked to my father, a retired chemist, on the phone. In the middle of our conversation, I told him about your proposed scene. He told me that the paint thinners will probably not blind anyone. The thinners are very flammable, so maybe that will give you something to work with.

Maybe the painter was getting ready to clean his windows and left the ammonia cleaner on the table. Does not sound as if this guy is very neat and organized.

Rhoda 10-10-2003 15:54

Hi all! I came across the following, and thought that it was worth copying in its entirety. Credit goes to Pat Holt:

"THE '10 MISTAKES' LIST

10 MISTAKES WRITERS DON'T SEE (BUT CAN EASILY FIX WHEN THEY DO)

Like many editorial consultants, I've been concerned about the amount of
time I've been spending on easy fixes that the author shouldn't have to
pay for.

Sometimes the question of where to put a comma, how to use a verb or why
not to repeat a word can be important, even strategic. But most of the
time the author either missed that day's grammar lesson in elementary
school or is too close to the manuscript to make corrections before I
see it.

So the following is a list I'll be referring to people *before* they
submit anything in writing to anybody (me, agent, publisher, your mom,
your boss). From email messages and front-page news in the New York
Times to published books and magazine articles, the 10 ouchies listed
here crop up everywhere. They're so pernicious that even respected
Internet columnists are not immune.

The list also could be called, "10 COMMON PROBLEMS THAT DISMISS YOU AS
AN AMATEUR," because these mistakes are obvious to literary agents and
editors, who may start wording their decline letter by page 5. What a
tragedy that would be.

So here we go:

1. REPEATS

Just about every writer unconsciously leans on a "crutch" word. Hillary
Clinton's repeated word is "eager" (can you believe it? the committee
that wrote "Living History" should be ashamed). Cosmopolitan magazine
editor Kate White uses "quickly" over a dozen times in "A Body To Die
For." Jack Kerouac's crutch word in "On the Road" is "sad," sometimes
doubly so - "sad, sad." Ann Packer's in "The Dive from Clausen's Pier"
is "weird."

Crutch words are usually unremarkable. That's why they slip under
editorial radar - they're not even worth repeating, but there you have
it, pop, pop, pop, up they come. Readers, however, notice them, get
irked by them and are eventually distracted by them, and down goes your
book, never to be opened again.

But even if the word is unusual, and even if you use it differently when
you repeat it, don't: Set a higher standard for yourself even if readers
won't notice. In Jennifer Egan's "Look at me," the core word - a good
word, but because it's good, you get *one* per book -is "abraded."
Here's the problem:

"Victoria's blue gaze abraded me with the texture of ground glass." page
202
"...(metal trucks abrading the concrete)..." page 217
"...he relished the abrasion of her skepticism..." page 256
"...since his abrasion with Z ..." page 272

The same goes for repeats of several words together - a phrase or
sentence that may seem fresh at first, but, restated many times, draws
attention from the author's strengths. Sheldon Siegel nearly bludgeons
us in his otherwise witty and articulate courtroom thriller, "Final
Verdict" with a sentence construction that's repeated throughout the
book:

"His tone oozes self-righteousness when he says..." page 188
"His voice is barely audible when he says..." page 193
"His tone is unapologetic when he says..." page 199
"Rosie keeps her tone even when she says..." page 200
"His tone is even when he says..." page 205
"I switch to my lawyer voice when I say ..." page 211
"He sounds like Grace when he says..." page 211

What a tragedy. I'm not saying all forms of this sentence should be
lopped off. Lawyers find their rhythm in the courtroom by phrasing
questions in the same or similar way. It's just that you can't do it too
often on the page. After the third or fourth or 16th time, readers
exclaim silently, "Where was the editor who shoulda caught this?" or
"What was the author thinking?"

So if you are the author, don't wait for the agent or house or even
editorial consultant to catch this stuff *for* you. Attune your eye now.
Vow to yourself, NO REPEATS.

And by the way, even deliberate repeats should always be questioned:
"Here are the documents." says one character. "If these are the
documents, I'll oppose you," says another. A repeat like that just keeps
us on the surface. Figure out a different word; or rewrite the exchange.
Repeats rarely allow you to probe deeper.

2. FLAT WRITING

"He wanted to know but couldn't understand what she had to say, so he
waited until she was ready to tell him before asking what she meant."

Something is conveyed in this sentence, but who cares? The writing is so
flat, it just dies on the page. You can't fix it with a few replacement
words - you have to give it depth, texture, character. Here's another:

"Bob looked at the clock and wondered if he would have time to stop for
gas before driving to school to pick up his son after band practice."
True, this could be important - his wife might have hired a private
investigator to document Bob's inability to pick up his son on time -
and it could be that making the sentence bland invests it with more
tension. (This is the editorial consultant giving you the benefit of the
doubt.) Most of the time, though, a sentence like this acts as filler.
It gets us from A to B, all right, but not if we go to the kitchen to
make a sandwich and find something else to read when we sit down.

Flat writing is a sign that you've lost interest or are intimidated by
your own narrative. It shows that you're veering toward mediocrity, that
your brain is fatigued, that you've lost your inspiration. So use it as
a lesson. When you see flat writing on the page, it's time to rethink,
refuel and rewrite.

3. EMPTY ADVERBS

Actually, totally, absolutely, completely, continually, constantly,
continuously, literally, really, unfortunately, ironically, incredibly,
hopefully, finally - these and others are words that promise emphasis,
but too often they do the reverse. They suck the meaning out of every
sentence.

I defer to People Magazine for larding its articles with empty adverbs.
A recent issue refers to an "incredibly popular, groundbreakingly racy
sitcom." That's tough to say even when your lips aren't moving.

In "Still Life with Crows," Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child describe a
mysterious row of corn in the middle of a field: "It was, in fact, the
only row that actually opened onto the creek." Here are two attempts at
emphasis ("in fact," "actually"), but they just junk up the sentence.
Remove them both and the word "only" carries the burden of the sentence
with efficiency and precision.

(When in doubt, try this mantra: Precise and spare; precise and spare;
precise and spare.)

In dialogue, empty adverbs may sound appropriate, even authentic, but
that's because they've creeped into American conversation in a trendy
way. If you're not watchful, they'll make your characters sound wordy,
infantile and dated.

In Julia Glass's "Three Junes," a character named Stavros is a
forthright and matter-of-fact guy who talks to his lover without
pretense or affectation. But when he mentions an offbeat tourist
souvenir, he says, "It's absolutely wild. I love it." Now he sounds
fey, spoiled, superficial.. (Granted, "wild" nearly does him in; but
"absolutely" is the killer.)

The word "actually" seems to emerge most frequently, I find. Ann
Packer's narrator recalls running in the rain with her boyfriend, "his
hand clasping mine as if he could actually make me go fast." Delete
"actually" and the sentence is more powerful without it.

The same holds true when the protagonist named Miles hears some
information in "Empire Falls" by Richard Russo. "Actually, Miles had no
doubt of it," we're told. Well, if he had no doubt, remove "actually" -
it's cleaner, clearer that way. "Actually" mushes up sentence after
sentence; it gets in the way every time. I now think it should *never*
be used.

Another problem with empty adverbs: You can't just stick them at the
beginning of a sentence to introduce a general idea or wishful thinking,
as in "Hopefully, the clock will run out." Adverbs have to modify a verb
or other adverb, and in this sentence, "run out" ain't it.

Look at this hilarious clunker from "The Da Vinci Code" by Dan Brown:
"Almost inconceivably, the gun into which she was now staring was
clutched in the pale hand of an enormous albino."

Ack, "almost inconceivably" - that's like being a little bit infertile!
Hopefully, that "enormous albino" will ironically go back to actually
flogging himself while incredibly saying his prayers continually.

4. PHONY DIALOGUE

Be careful of using dialogue to advance the plot. Readers can tell when
characters talk about things they already know, or when the speakers
appear to be having a conversation for our benefit. You never want one
character to imply or say to the other, "Tell me again, Bruce: What are
we doing next?"

Avoid words that are fashionable in conversation. Ann Packer's
characters are so trendy the reader recoils. " 'What's up with that?' I
said. 'Is this a thing [love affair]?' " "We both smiled. " 'What is it
with him?' I said. 'I mean, really.' " Her book is only a few years old,
and already it's dated.

Dialogue offers glimpses into character the author can't provide through
description. Hidden wit, thoughtful observations, a shy revelation, a
charming aside all come out in dialogue, so the characters *show* us
what the author can't *tell* us. But if dialogue helps the author
distinguish each character, it also nails the culprit who's promoting a
hidden agenda by speaking out of character.

An unfortunate pattern the dialogue in "Three Junes, by the way, is that
all the male characters begin to sound like the author's version of Noel
Coward - fey, acerbic, witty, superior, puckish, diffident. Pretty soon
the credibility of the entire novel is shot. You owe it to each
character's unique nature to make every one of them an original.

Now don't tell me that because Julia Glass won the National Book Award,
you can get away with lack of credibility in dialogue. Setting your own
high standards and sticking to them - being proud of *having* them - is
the mark of a pro. Be one, write like one, and don't cheat.

5. NO-GOOD SUFFIXES

Don't take a perfectly good word and give it a new backside so it
functions as something else. The New York Times does this all the time.
Instead of saying, "as a director, she is meticulous," the reviewer will
write, "as a director, she is known for her meticulousness." Until she
is known for her obtuseness.

The "ness" words cause the eye to stumble, come back, reread:
Mindlessness, characterlessness, courageousness, statuesqueness,
preciousness - you get the idea. You might as well pour marbles into
your readers' mouths. Not all "ness" words are bad - goodness, no - but
they are all suspect.

The "ize" words are no better - finalize, conceptualize, fantasize,
categorize. The "ize" hooks itself onto words as a short-cut but stays
there like a parasite. Cops now say to each other about witnesses
they've interrogated, "Did you statementize him?" Some shortcut. Not all
"ize" words are bad, either, but they do have the ring of the vulgate to
them - "he was brutalized by his father," "she finalized her report."
Just try to use them rarely.

Adding "ly" to "ing" words has a little history to it. Remember the old
Tom Swifties? "I hate that incision," the surgeon said cuttingly. "I got
first prize!" the boy said winningly. But the point to a good Tom
Swiftie is to make a punchline out of the last adverb. If you do that in
your book, the reader is unnecessarily distracted. Serious writing
suffers from such antics.

Some "ingly" words do have their place. I can accept "swimmingly,"
"annoyingly," "surprisingly" as descriptive if overlong "ingly" words.
But not "startlingly," "harrowingly" or "angeringly," "careeningly" -
all hell to pronounce, even in silence, like the "groundbreakingly" used
by People magazine above. Try to use all "ingly" words (can't help it)
sparingly.

6. THE 'TO BE' WORDS:

Once your eye is attuned to the frequent use of the "to be" words -
"am," "is," "are," "was," "were," "be," "being," "been" and others -
you'll be appalled at how quickly they flatten prose and slow your pace
to a crawl.

The "to be" words represent the existence of things - "I am here. You
are there." Think of Hamlet's query, "to be, or not to be." To exist is
not to act, so the "to be" words pretty much just there sit on the page.
"I am the maid." "It was cold." "You were away."

I blame mystery writers for turning the "to be" words into a trend: Look
how much burden is placed on the word "was" in this sentence: "Around
the corner, behind the stove, under the linoleum, was the gun." All the
suspense of finding the gun dissipates. The "to be" word is not fair to
the gun, which gets lost in a sea of prepositions.

Sometimes, "to be" words do earn a place in writing: "In a frenzy by
now, he pushed the stove away from the wall and ripped up he linoleum.
Cold metal glinted from under the floorboards. He peered closer. Sure
enough, it was the gun." Okay, I'm lousy at this, but you get the
point: Don't squander the "to be" words - save them for special moments.


Not so long ago "it was" *defined* emphasis. Even now, if you want to
say, "It was Margaret who found the gun," meaning nobody else but
Margaret, fine. But watch out - "it was" can be habitual: "It was Jack
who joined the Million Man March. It was Bob who said he would go, too.
But it was Bill who went with them." Flat, flat, flat.

Try also to reserve the use of "there was" or "there is" for special
occasions. If used to often, this crutch also bogs down sentence after
sentence. "He couldn't believe there was furniture in the room. There
was an open dresser drawer. There was a sock on the bed. There was a
stack of laundry in the corner. There was a handkerchief on the
floor...." By this time, we're dozing off, and you haven't even gotten
to the kitchen

One finds the dreaded "there was/is" in jacket copy all the time.
"Smith's book offers a range of lively characters: There is Jim, the
puzzle-loving dad. There is Winky, the mom who sits on the 9th Court of
Appeals. There is Barbie, brain surgeon to the stars...."

Attune your eye to the "to be" words and you'll see them everywhere.
When in doubt, replace them with active, vivid, engaging verbs. Muscle
up that prose.

7. LISTS

"She was entranced by the roses, hyacinths, impatiens, mums, carnations,
pansies, irises, peonies, hollyhocks, daylillies, morning glories,
larkspur..." Well, she may be entranced, but our eyes are glazing over.

If you're going to describe a number of items, jack up the visuals. Lay
out the the scene as the eye sees it, with emphasis and emotion in
unlikely places. When you list the items as though we're checking them
off with a clipboard, the internal eye will shut.

It doesn't matter what you list - nouns, adjectives, verbs - the result
is always static. "He drove, he sighed, he swallowed, he yawned in
impatience." So do we. Dunk the whole thing. Rethink and rewrite. If
you've got many ingredients and we aren't transported, you've got a
list.


8. SHOW, DON'T TELL

If you say, "she was stunning and powerful," you're *telling* us. But if
you say, "I was stunned by her elegant carriage as she strode past the
jury - shoulders erect, elbows back, her eyes wide and watchful," you're
*showing* us. The moment we can visualize the picture you're trying to
paint, you're showing us, not telling us what we *should* see..

Handsome, attractive, momentous, embarrassing, fabulous, powerful,
hilarious, stupid, fascinating are all words that "tell" us in an
arbitrary way what to think. They don't reveal, don't open up, don't
describe in specifics what is unique to the person or event described.
Often they begin with cliches.

Here is Gail Sheehy's depiction of a former "surfer girl" from the New
Jersey shore in "Middletown, America":

"This was a tall blond tomboy who grew up with all guy friends. A
natural beauty who still had age on her side, being thirty; she didn't
give a thought to taming her flyaway hair or painting makeup on her
smooth Swedish skin."

Here I *think* I know what Sheehy means, but I'm not sure. Don't let the
reader make such assumptions. You're the author; it's your charge to
show us what you mean with authentic detail. Don't pretend the job is
accomplished by cliches such as "smooth Swedish skin," "flyaway hair,"
"tall blond tomboy," "the surfer girl" - how smooth? how tall? how
blond?

Or try this from Faye Kellerman in "Street Dreams": "[Louise's] features
were regular, and once she had been pretty. Now she was handsome in her
black skirt, suit, and crisp, white blouse."

Well, that's it for Louise, poor thing. Can you see the character in
front of you? A previous sentence tells us that Louise has "blunt-cut
hair" framing an "oval face," which helps, but not much - millions of
women have a face like that. What makes Louise distinctive? Again, we
may think we know what Kellerman means by "pretty" and "handsome" (good
luck), but the inexcusable word here is "regular," as in "her features
were regular." What *are* "regular" features?

The difference between telling and showing usually boils down to the
physical senses. Visual, aural aromatic words take us out of our skin
and place us in the scene you've created. In conventional narrative it's
fine to use a "to be" word to talk us into the distinctive word, such as
"wandered" in this brief, easily imagined sentence by John Steinbeck in
"East of Eden." "His eyes were very blue, and when he was tired, one of
them wandered outward a little." We don't care if he is "handsome" or
"regular."

Granted, context is everything, as writing experts say, and certainly
that's true of the sweltering West African heat in Graham Greene's "The
Heart of the Matter": "Her face had the ivory tinge of atabrine; her
hair which had once been the color of bottled honey was dark and stringy
with sweat." Except for "atabrine" (a medicine for malaria), the words
aren't all that distinctive, but they quietly do the job - they don't
tell us; they show us.

Commercial novels sometimes abound with the most revealing examples of
this problem. The boss in Linda Lael Miller's "Don't Look Now" is
"drop-dead gorgeous"; a former boyfriend is "seriously fine to look at:
35, half Irish and half Hispanic, his hair almost black, his eyes
brown." A friend, Betsy, is "a gorgeous, leggy blonde, thin as a
model." Careful of that word "gorgeous" - used too many times, it might
lose its meaning.

9. AWKWARD PHRASING

"Mrs. Fletcher's face pinkened slightly." Whoa. This is an author trying
too hard. "I sat down and ran a finger up the bottom of his foot, and he
startled so dramatically .... " Egad, "he startled"? You mean "he
started"?

Awkward phrasing makes the reader stop in the midst of reading and
ponder the meaning of a word or phrase. This you never want as an
author. A rule of thumb - always give your work a little percolatin'
time before you come back to it. Never write right up to deadline.
Return to it with fresh eyes. You'll spot those overworked tangles of
prose and know exactly how to fix them.

10. COMMAS

Compound sentences, most modifying clauses and many phrases *require*
commas. You may find it necessary to break the rules from time to time,
but you can't delete commas just because you don't like the pause they
bring to a sentence or just because you want to add tension.

"Bob ran up the stairs and looking down he realized his shoelace was
untied but he couldn't stop because they were after him so he decided to
get to the roof where he'd retie it." This is what happens when an
author believes that omitting commas can make the narrative sound
breathless and racy. Instead it sounds the reverse - it's heavy and
garbled.

The Graham Greene quote above is dying for commas, which I'll insert
here: "Her face had the ivory tinge of atabrine; her hair, which had
once been the color of bottled honey, was dark and stringy with sweat."
This makes the sentence accessible to the reader, an image one needs to
slow down and absorb.

Entire books have been written about punctuation. Get one. "The Chicago
Manual of Style" shows why punctuation is necessary in specific
instances. If you don't know what the rules are for, your writing will
show it.

The point to the List above is that even the best writers make these
mistakes, but you can't afford to. The way manuscripts are thrown into
the Rejection pile on the basis of early mistakes is a crime. Don't be a
victim."

Sunny 10-10-2003 15:40

Hi All!

Just checking in quick. I actually did some writing related work yesterday - enough to want to get back to it today.

Viv - thanks for the water bottle tip. I happen to have one handy - always keep on handy - for when the cats start sharpening those claws, those one's I just trimmed, on the furniture - or when the one of the dogs decide to "punish" said cat for me.

I am feeling Soooo much better! I've actually got a "good mood" going on! My aches and pains have gone down to the twinge level. And doc said it would take a couple of weeks or months for everything to kick in properly.

Art class tomorrow - hubby is teasing me about being away from him - after all, it is our anniversary, the one we didn't thing we'd be celebrating only a couple of months ago. Does this mean my year of bad luck is finally reversing itself? Dare I hope?

Pester - I love that post of yours! hehehehe Try taking each big issue of yours and drop it into just one character - nice and strong! Should make for some interesting reading - maybe even on a par with Randall's Red Britches. Speaking of Red - I haven't seen him lately. Is he getting ready for winter?

Have a great day everyone - I know I'm going to!

Carol 10-10-2003 14:31

Okay, it's 1914 Vienna. The artist is dirt poor. He paints in a style known as encaustic--he mixes wax in with his paint--and slashes it on his paintings with a spatula and various brushes after he's painted the "underpainting". There's a bowl of iodine on the work table because his model was beaten up the night before, and he was tending to her. It's stuck to the table because the wax from the candles melted during the night. The "bad guy" comes in, sees the painting that he'd commissioned, and decides he doesn't want it, and instead, wants it destroyed. There's a short scuffle. The man has a walking stick, and he swings it around to strike the model, hits the work table, and everything hits her in the face. I guess if I put enough turpentine and linseed oil on the table, together with the iodine, that should blind her. Oh, and by the way, the only water in the room to clean her eyes with, sits in an earthenware jug the "bad guy" purposely drops on the floor before he leaves. I like my bad guys to be real bastards sometimes.

I'll just "write out" the ammonia and change it back to what I had before. See? You should always go with you first instincts.

ben 10-10-2003 14:21

BEN,

Sorry I breezed too quickly through your post. You want the guy blinded. There are many things that can blind you besides ammonia. The trouble is that you would never thin your paint with a strong acid or a strong base like ammonia. You could have your artist accidently get thinner or solvent on his face and have it ignite. Even getting the solvent in his eyes could damage them permantly.

Rhoda 10-10-2003 13:47

BEN,

I do not think your artist would use ammonia as a paint thinner or solvent. Ammonia would be far too reactive. Paint thinners are generally things like turpentine or linseed oil, stuff that would potentially dissolve the pigments without chemically interfering with them.

There are lots of ways to get ammonia. In this family we get ours by neglecting the cat box for two weeks or more. You are more likely to get ammonia by mixing certain household chemicals together.

If you wish to have your artist friend conjure up something dangerous, have him thin his paints with benzene or carbon tetrachloride or even chloroform in a poorly ventilated area. Come to think of it, using terpentine without enough ventilation might kill some one. Once upon a time, Liberace almost died because he tried dry-cleaning his costume in a poorly ventilated hotel room. Any of these aromatic solvents can be dangerous this way. Most of them are also highly flammable.

If you can be a little more specific, I can look up ways to create some pretty deadly situations with seemingly innocent stuff.

Rhoda 10-10-2003 13:42

Hey guys, I have a few more minutes before I've got to go. I know i haven't been on for .....forever, but once again, I have no study hall this semester and barely any time to myself after school and everything else. Little update: my holes from my oral surgery that I had in August or healed, I had 8 teeth pulled, 4 wisdom, 4 bicuspeds. I had braces put on just before school started. I've had them tightened 2 seperate times, I finally got a raise at work, I'M A SENIOR, I'm going to my state's capitol for a music state convention and the bell rang! So, I've got to go, there are other things but i've ran out of time!
Till Niagara Falls!

Elaine 10-10-2003 13:14

Gotta a question for anyone who can answer it. I'm writing a story about an artist back in turn of the century Vienna. He runs out of solvents for his painting. Can he use ammonia? Does the ammonia effect the paint? I need the ammonia in the story, and on the table, because later it gets splashed in someone's eyes and they are blinded--my stories ar always so upbeat and gay :-)

Anything?

Rachel: ???

ben 10-10-2003 12:42

Viv,
SHAME

Eddie French 10-10-2003 12:28

Pester,
Yep, know that feeling. I don't think many here would get the bit about the 'Big Issue' though, too local.

Eddie French 10-10-2003 12:28

Viv:


I feel like I have to make a tiny confession. The place is full of 18 to 23 year old boys working there. They are so cute and new. They can't believe I'm as old as I say and we make jokes all day. Besides that there's not a lot of room behind the counter and lots of us back there. It's just me and all that testosterone!

I'd do that job for free!

Debra 10-10-2003 9:34

Hi All -

I didn't get onto a computer yesterday... and today I'll be brief so as not to bore anyone, but to just finish off a conversation I was having with HOWARD and TEEKAY...

#1 - I did say I BELIEVE we were all written in the Book of Life at Creation - I don't think the Bible says we were; it's just what I believe.

#2 - Matters of faith and belief vary widely within the human race because God made us each distinct persons and we interpret our surroundings on our own individual levels and thoughtwaves. Even inspiring certain people to write God's thoughts in a book that will last through the ages does not convince everyone to believe every word of it or necessarily any of it. We could discuss, argue, and compare interpretations until our fingers knot together on our keyboards and still not resolve anything. I just want to remind you that I am simply stating what I believe - it doesn't make me right; it just places me in a position to deal with my personal life from the interpretation I have chosen to accept.

#3 - You are entitled to believe as you also interpret things. For me, I believe in God the Father's mercy, as shown in the NT through His Son's great sacrifice for us. I believe the final judgment for each individual will be different and we will only know what it will be when we get to that point.

In fact, my interpretation runs similar to that of C.S.Lewis in THE LAST BATTLE. In the end, (WARNING: SPOILERS follow, for any who haven't read it!) all creatures walk through a door, to leave their world that is coming to an end.

Those who worshipped evil are swallowed by the bird-beast-god they worshipped - the end of them.

Those who worshipped good with Aslan the Lion god (aka our Jesus) were issued into the glory and excitement of paradise for eternity, and they go romping through the hills "Further up! Further in!" toward some great reward, perhaps to meet God Himself.

And then there were some who neither worshipped the evil beast nor the good lion. They too went through the door... and proceeded to sit, they perceived, in a dark hut. They couldn't see Paradise only because they didn't believe in it and so trapped themselves at the edge of it, unable to enjoy it.

These last are the ones, I BELIEVE, who might be still in the Book of Life but who haven't taken the next step, to explore the possibility that Jesus is their personal savior too. Maybe they're allowed to exist just within the door of paradise in case they will yet come to see Truth and thereby allow themselves to advance "further up! further in!" -- I believe in God's mercy.

End of my religious thoughts for now. (I hear the Notebookers cheering!!!!)

EVERYONE - have yourselves PROLIFIC writing sessions TODAY. BTW, a book I ordered for the library, THE PROCRASTINATOR'S WORKBOOK, is on backorder (HAH!). We HAVE to write today, no putting off allowed! Enjoy your writing time, whenever you have it. :-)

Mel 10-10-2003 8:38

Rachel: Hi! I understand about lurking! Sometimes just too busy to write, but need to look in on you all and assure myself that it's still here to come back to once this work is done.

Carol: I'm glad you are taking the art class. You reminded me about the trees changing. We have about a month to go before that starts here. I'm still wearing short sleeves. Wish I could pick up my camera and trail along with you, hearing the leaves crackle underfoot. Did you know to take a spray bottle with you and squirt those leaves with a little water before you take the picture. Then focus in on Macro. It looks like a leaf after a storm. How I miss free time.

Debra: I know what you mean. Today I was thinking as I went in the door to our school how happy I would be to have less responsibility and more opportunity to write. That's how you get to be a writer. I wish I could just chuck my job and school right now. Unfortunately with one in college and one on the way there...no way. Two to three years from now this will be finished and I won't have to think these thoughts. I want to work in a butcher store too...or a bakery...or any coffee shop except Starbucks. I don't like Starbucks coffee. For some reason it leaves my stomach queasy just smelling it. I have no idea why.

Randall, all you did was post an article about a guy who steps outside the church door for a break now and then. Look what that started. Can you believe it! The power of the written word at work. I guess it's a good thing the guy didn't go out there to smoke a cigar. That would have set off a new tirade against the evils of smoking. I'm thinking of taking up the pipe. Not just a normal pipe...a hooka pipe. I found one in a shop here and it goes with my weird furniture. I don't want to smoke funny tobacco, just the kind that smells like the stuff my grandfather smoked. I kind of miss the smell of that great guy. It'd be nice to have his smell in our house again.

Viv 10-10-2003 7:49

Another glorious day on the great plains. Been driving back and forth to the Black Hills so often (How often was it!?) So often that I now know all the deer, buffalo and antelope by their first names!

My VA Doc said she didn't want to worry me much but she was going to give me a script for nitro, just in case, and that I should come back next week for a stress test.

Needless to say, she did worry me a bit, but what the heck, we all have to check out sometime, only thing is, I don't plan on checking out for another twenty or thirty years.

Had another of our family reunions in the big city of Bismarck today, I must be getting old or something, I could barley keep my eyes open on the trip up and back, lucky the wife was beside me keeping me talking so I didn't doze off. Been real tired of late, must be age or something.


Jerry 10-10-2003 0:13

Oh Teekay:

How I've missed you.

Mark:

I think he was just messing with me.

Debra 10-9-2003 22:00

---Pester---

Hello matey peeps how is all?

I called a meeting in the local council offices to counteract the apathy I had experienced recently, no one turned up. I felt a bit low, saw some speed on the table so I thought I’ll try some of that but they were just too damn fast for me. I saw a sleeping pill on the table so I woke it up and took it, then there was a knock on the door so I took it off, as I hate things being left on doors.

I decided to get a new life so I went to Woolworths they sell everything else there, someone told me that I needed to find myself first, I said before who, they didn’t get it but then neither did I, I never do, I’m always the one who doesn’t get it, everyone else whizzes around seemingly knowing what to do, bastards I hate them.

I’ve got issues yeah, loads of them but I can’t afford a psychiatrist and to see one on the national health you’ve got to be crazy, I mean I’m pretty mad but I’m definitely not crazy, this pink elephant sitting next to me will testify to that. “ What do you mean, you won’t?”
“Well off with you then, no wonder the circus sacked you, it was nothing to do with your colour mate!”
“So how about you three penguins on that tricycle?”

Same old story, you’re on your own, even when you’re with people you’re on your own, so be off with you, you loner and don’t come to me looking for comfort, my heads confused enough without having you listening into my conversations.
Where was I, oh yes issues, my issues are so big (Ha, big issues), I couldn’t fit them into a novel as big as that Tolstoy piece War in pieces, I mean some of them are complex man, you don’t want to know, it’s like that Jesus thing you know I’d better just give you milk you’re not ready for solid food, I may throw in a bit of rusk or Ready Brek now and again if you’re up to it, might just make a serial out of it, anyway stay awake, you might just learn something.

Bye folks, love Pester.






Pester 10-9-2003 19:14

Almost forgot! My daughter called from Arizona this morning to inform us that grandkid #7 is on the way! So we're planning to go west in late June or early July.

BTW -- anybody know what the # symbol is called? (Besides the pound sign).

LITTER -- Welcome back! Good looking site!

An additional thought -- what if you come back as a traveling evangelist show's dancing bear, with hemorrhoids?



howard 10-9-2003 18:45

TEEKAY -- "haemorroids?" That the OZ/UK version? over here it's "hemorhoids." and they're a real pain in the butt!

Know what polaroids are? What Eskimos get from sitting too long on the ice...

Jetsons? Cooking? I just read recently (dunno where) about the guy who worked for Raytheon during WWII, developing radar. He walked by one of the development setups while it was running, and noticed that a candy bar in his pocket started to melt. It gave him an idea that eventually led to the Radar Range -- fore-runner of the microwave oven. As a Raytheon employee he got all of a dollar for the idea!

In closing, food for thought for all the reincarnationists out there -- What if you were to come back as a televangelist? Or a Rush Limbaugh? Or a future President Bush or Clinton? Or (shudder) a fundamental, Bible-thumping Baptist?

:-)

To quote a well known internet personality --

going...




howard 10-9-2003 18:35

OK something strange happened to the AuthorsDen link, so here it is again --

http://www.authorsden.com/georgekmclaren

That should work...

Litter Again 10-9-2003 18:27

Greetings All!

Just back from my first official gig for a decade or more. Didn't think I'd ever do it again, but I've got together with a couple of ex-pro's (that is pro musicians, as opposed to horizontal ladies of leisure!) Good gig, lots of fuzzy warm feelings of past glories, and a lot of fun culminating in an huge adrenalin buzz as the last arpeggio was played…

Lots of debate on things religious, but I'm glad to see that it has remained relatively good humoured.

Talking of things spiritual, and being a great fan of natural irony, brings me to my latest 'mini-success' with the publication, this Sunday coming, of two Celtic liturgical songs, the lyrics of which I wrote to the rather lovely music of another pro friend (earlier comment applies) a while ago. Now for the irony – Scotland still has a little bit of a problem with the protestant – catholic divide, but my lyrics (and me a Baptist,) are about to become part of the liturgy of the St Andrew's Arch-Diocese of the Catholic Church and, it is anticipated, the country as a whole. It's sort of guerrilla ecumenism, I suppose. (My co-writer is, however, Catholic.)

My w.i.p. is developing arms and legs and is way bigger (and better) than I first envisioned. Now all I have to do is get it written properly, and with a baby joining us in about 5 weeks, it looks like it will be no mean feat. Granddad's baby-sitting services are bound to be in high demand, shortly :o)

I've now got web pages on AuthorsDen, which I'll be adding to as time goes on. Do drop by and make yourself known. Link Below.

Still on a bit of an adrenalin high, so I'm off now to enjoy it 'til it subsides.

All Good Things,


Litter http://www.authorsden.com/georgekmclaren 10-9-2003 18:21

DEBRA: HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

MARK: ????
DEBRA was just telling velly funny stolly. She did not say preist had Dogma nor catma, but he did have chickenma.
Velly expensive chickenma.

Note: Please, nobody take offence at my Chinese accent. I used to be a Chinese person in past life.

Ah, I can see you're all just sittin' around looking at your fingernails, bored pooless by the line of discussion of the moment, soooooooooooooo
I am going to introduce a range of topics that we can discuss:

1: haemorrhoids: Is spelling them as painful as having them?

2: Bears: it's been quite some time since we discussed bears. Any new dreams or bear experiences anyone?

3: Space age stuff: How long do you think it will be until they invent a food machine like on the Jetsons so I don't have to cook?

4: Miscellaneous: Discuss anything from the mundane to the majestic.

I'll start this topic:
Yesterday, I was thinking about cleaning the bathroom, but I really didn't feel like doing it, so I sat down for a bit and flicked through a magazine, then the cat came inside and wanted to eat, so I gave the cat a pat and then I got up and fed the cat and then I thought that the cat might need brushing because it's coming onto summer and the cat's losing his hair and leaving it all over the place.
And that's all.

Going...



Teekay 10-9-2003 17:59

DEBRA -- and did the priest have a twinkle in his eye? Just because he said it does not mean he was preaching dogma.

Washington Irving said the horseman threw his head at Ichabod Crane, too.

Mark 10-9-2003 14:08

Teekay:

Brace yourself. The priest is the one who said that!

Debra 10-9-2003 11:26

MEL: Just had another belated thought.

You wrote:
He wants us to choose to turn to Him when we need. If we choose NOT, that doesn't mean we will "burn in hell"

And you wrote:
We can choose to be obedient to His "thou shalts" and "thou shalt nots" or we can choose otherwise. Those "otherwise" choices are what issue in the evil in our world and our separation from our Creator.


And you wrote:
our names are not removed from said book unless we turn to worshipping Evil.

So, what does that mean exactly?

Does it mean that we can do evil things so long as we don't worship it?
That doesn't make sense.

Looks to me like a round about way of saying 'if you don't believe and follow the rules you will fry'.

And, as with ego, does God really have needs?

Were we created to satiate the emotional needs of an egotistical tyrant so that in the end he won't decide to cook us in a lake?

Or, am I misunderstanding and it means that God is a bit emotionally needy and if he doesn't get fulfilled from us by our absolute obedience then we still get to fry again.

I just pictured God as michael Jackson.

Teekay 10-9-2003 1:37

MEL: If we were perfect would we be hung up about being Gods.?
What does perfect mean? Without fault?
Does God have an ego?

Wouldn’t the most important thing to those truly in touch with God, be God.
Can one know God and still desire self gain?
I don’t think so.

That’s going on my belief that we are all part of God. Our souls – created in his own image – that of pure love and being.

Which leads to my next belief that yes, we are all perfect, but right now, we’re fumbling around in the dark, using the tools given us to learn the lesson we chose.

In the bible it says we will burn in hell. Even those who believe in him will burn in hell for doing the wrong thing – unless they repent. (You have to give second –or third or fourth chances or control will be lost.)

Have you chosen to overlook this to put your angle on it?
If you have, that’s fine, but it’s the point I’ve been trying to make. People have been putting their spin on the bible all the time.

About revelations:

You did a wonderful job of reading into it what you chose :-)

The truth as I see it is that each and everyone of us has/is part of God, right this minute. We think that our soul is some hidden thing we don’t really know of tucked away in some secret place inside us.

Reality, at least mine, based on study (including science) and what I have so far experienced is that our souls are what we are, right here, right now, but at the moment we are surrounded by this thing we call a body, and through it’s limited perceptions we think that the 5 senses are the only ones we have and what we see is what there is.

And the thing is, you don't have to take my word for it, or wait until the day of judgment, you can experience it yourself.

Most religions hold you separate from God. They dangle God above your head or his wrath below your feet, rather like dangling the carrot in front of the donkey, when in fact God can be accessed whenever one wishes.
You can see how this wouldn’t be too beneficial to a lot of religions.

HOWARD: I agree. And the parts in the bible that can be reconciled with each other are probably the truths.

I am not out to decry or denounce any one’s belief, but how much more united everyone would be if we could reconcile to the greatest truth:
God is the Alpha and the Omega and most religions have him, and most religions have been tampered with for the gaining of power.

Does that make the followers of those religions wrong?
No, for how can you condemn one’s choices when their actions are believed to be for the God who holds their fate in his hands.

You could argue that these people did not know the true God.
But that argument could be dashed by saying – there is only one true God.
And you could say, yes, and they weren’t worshipping that one.
But even the person who denies God’s very existence verbally, cannot truly deny him, for God is part of him.
You could argue then that they have been misled by their ignorance and blind faith. Following the teachings of those in power without question.
And you would probably be correct.


Until we can open our minds we will continue to isolate ourselves and others.

Good idea about the blog thing.

Whatever a blog is :-D

BEN: It would be a bummer for anyone to get feisty over this. For to attack would indicate that there was something that needed defending.

ELLE: I’m from Australia and I just love the landscape.

DEBRA: You cracked me up about your boss assuming you were already headed for hell :-D

My sister and her family are going back to South Australia today *sniff*.

Going......








Teekay 10-8-2003 20:03

Howard,
I know a good blog host which is ad free and 'Free' too.
do a search for (20six.co.uk.) It also has great intuitive tools.

Ed

Eddie French 10-8-2003 18:09

MEL -- You'll have to show me where it says that everyone's name is written in the book of life at creation. I've never seen that. And if it were true, then how do you reconcile John 3:16 - 18 (especially vs 18) with it? Be careful of commentaries -- make sure they agree with all of scripture.

----

I think I'll try to set up a blog where those who really want to can discuss this without bothering the rest, and using up Jack's bandwidth. May take a while, though. still learning this stuff.

howard 10-8-2003 16:11

Mel: Time to bring out the big guns, is it? You guys take your religiosity far too seriously :-) Aren't commentaries just one person's interpretation of what something is supposed to mean? I mean commentaries in general. You can twist anything around and make it sound like you want it to, that's why we have COLE'S NOTES--okay CLIFF's down south. I'm not saying they're not interesting (commentaries I mean), but they shouldn't be taken as fact, just a jumping off point--or in.

But you hold on to your Faith girl, and for all you're worth too, because that's how this stuff lasted so long in the first place.

Mark: I agree with you to a point, because if it was looked at as poetry, maybe the world wouldn't be in such a mess?

Teekay: I'll just sit back and take the heat for a while. I have to see my brother this weekend coming up, and he's a born again Christian, so I can use the excercise. :-o

10-8-2003 15:59

Teekay, you know they're all going to gang up on you eventually, don't you? They've got two thousand years of scriptures behind them, and a lifetime of belief. Remember, there are two truths--and just because it's the Gospel truth, doesn't mean it's right. :-)


ben 10-8-2003 15:43

Okay, HOWARD, you almost stumped me (an easy thing to do to this still-growing-in-my-faith Christian!), but I found a bit of commentary that supports my belief that we were all written into the Book of Life at Creation (God did create everything Good) and our names are not removed from said book unless we turn to worshipping Evil. That leaves room for those who choose not to worship God, but who also do not choose to worship evil, to possibly remain in the Book of Life, wouldn't it?

"those whose names are not written in the book of life will not live. They will die forever in the lake of fire. John has already told us who they are: "the inhabitants of the earth" who worshiped the beast and the dragon (13:8; 17:8). Now that the beast and false prophet and the dragon are in the lake of fire (v. 10), their followers must inevitably join them there.

"Yet even the second death, or the lake of fire (v. 14) has its positive side. It is not made first of all for human beings, but for supernatural entities and institutions that oppress human beings--Babylon implicitly (17:16; 18:9-10; 19:3), and the beast, the false prophet and the dragon explicitly. It is, as Jesus said, "prepared for the devil and his angels" (Mt 25:41)." --
IVP New Testament Commentaries, InterVarsity Press
and Gospel Communications International


The Book Of Revelation is filled with symbolism; it's difficult to comprehend, even if we have "ears to hear."







Mel 10-8-2003 15:38

MEL -- How do you explain Revelation 20:11-15?

howard 10-8-2003 14:24

Hi, DEBRA! I've been wondering where you were. :-)

It's a beautiful day here in central-southern-tier New York. I wish you ALL a day of dreams and good writing!!!

Mel again 10-8-2003 9:48

TEEKAY: If God had made us perfect, maybe we would be Gods ourselves. We might want our own worshippers (the angel Lucifer got kicked out of Heaven for thinking that way!). If we were perfect, we wouldn't need God for anything. And He needs us to need Him but not on a mandatory level - He wants us to choose to turn to Him when we need. If we choose NOT, that doesn't mean we will "burn in hell" - it just means that we've broken God's heart. At least that's my take on things. But what do I know - I'm just another imperfect creation. 8-}

Mel 10-8-2003 9:45

Yes Teekay. Find it annoying how some people think Kalgoorlie land isn't pretty because it's not covered with green

Elle F. 10-7-2003 23:46

Randall - the site below might be of interest to you, it deals with the massacre at Sand Creek Col. I got the link from my cousin who holds the family tree branch going back to our Indian ancestor.

Jerry Washita 10-7-2003 22:47

Teekay:

I think it wasn't five whole minutes.

Debra 10-7-2003 22:08

Teekay:

The other day I was wrapping a chicken up for this man, regular man. I thought. Well anyway, we are supposed to weight it and get the price, hold the price in our heads wrap it, and then put the price on the out side of the paper. I was listening to something and put ten dollars more than it was supposed to be on this $4.13 dollar chicken. It's very rare.

The boss he's really nice called me over to tell me it was wrong and I just almost robbed a priest. He wasn't wearing his collar. He said "well you will just burn in hell a little longer." Imagine. He just assumed I was already going. They were just playing with me. It's a very relaxing place to work even with a mess up like that.

The other day I had three ladies laughing at the register when they were trying to be mad. They all left together even though I rang them out one at a time, so they could keep the laugh in its entirety.

Debra 10-7-2003 22:08

MEL: This is a bit belated, but you wrote:

God gave us FREE WILL so we can CHOOSE to love and worship Him - or not.

Does the 'or not' stand for burn in hell?

Some choice.

Teekay 10-7-2003 21:58

OK. Here's $0.02.

  • The OT was written by people who lived in in oral culture.
  • The Douay bible reflects that oral poetry.
  • King James' version was written to reflect the poetry of a literate society.
  • Despite changes from the original, people will still wave those things LIKE THEY WERE THE BIBLE


I believe all bibles are poetically true, none of them historically so.

Mark 10-7-2003 21:21

MEL: It's sort of amusing that all religions have the answers to all the questions :-)

Why can't we just accept that we really don't have a clue except for what we have been told by our religion of choice, or what has been revealed to us through our own personal search?

So, God made us good.
Why?
Why didn't he make us perfect?

Are we souls belonging to a greater source or are we lumps of clay who on the day we die shall be put in the ground to await the rising depending on how good or bad we've been?

Or, when we 'die' is our lesson here over in this primitive place and our spiritual bodies free to return from whence they came?
To study the lesson learnt and see that it was accomplished and to perhaps have another go at another lesson, because isn't it all about evolvement and knowledge?

Or are humans the only ones advanced enough to devise a school system (that happens to fail for a huge amount of children)
A family system (where a great many are dysfunctional)
A belief system (where practically none can agree on the beliefs of others)
A social system (where still people go in need)

I figure if God can make the universe he might have a little more in store for us that sitting around heaven sipping mint juleps and patting the lions.

That's sounds sarcastic, but it's not meant to.

BEN: I agree with what you said. I like to keep an open mind about it.

All things are possible.

ELLE: Nice poem, are you from Kalgoorlie?

DEBRA: Yeah, abouts 5 minutes :-D

Going.....

Teekay 10-7-2003 19:29

Debra: Filoque (Latin: 'and from the Son')..in response to a question that had been brought up, it defined the Holy Spirit as "proceeding from the Father AND FROM THE SON.

The Eastern Church preferred to say that the Holy Spirit proceeded "through" the son: DIA TOU UIOU--'from the Father THROUGH the Son.

Pretty petty when you think about it, but it was enough to break the Church apart. Nothing more than greed I'd say: Greed for money and power. But, that's Church history for you. Fascinating. I don't know where God came into it when you look at it through the smokey glass of history--it was always about power and greed when you got right down to it; that's why it fell apart in so many different ways: Protestants, Episcopals, J.W.'s, Baptists, Calvanists, my goodness, but it does go on and on, doesn't it?

ben 10-7-2003 15:27

Kalgoorlie Bushland

A rugged, almost barren land that gives no inch nor asks for any
For those who fail to see it’s natural untouched beauty
Open your eyes and gaze around, see it for it is
Filled with trees that are dead, yet seem to have their own life
The tracks are plentiful, manmade probably
Though laden with cracks and holes
It seems all so natural.

This harsh land would never be known for it’s panoramic views
Red and brown are the main colours with the occasional green tinge
Postcards will never show luscious green hills
Instead it shows the untouched, untamed beauty of our bushland
The area stretches out as far as the eyes could see
Never ending it seems
To those who think this land is ugly
I say look again, look deeper and you shall see
What it is that I’m talking about


Elle F. 10-7-2003 15:27

Ben

What was the single word?

What was it.

Debra 10-7-2003 14:35

Ben

This conversation on religion has brought a lot of us to places we haven't wanted to go to for a long time, and others to places we've been looking forward to for all our lives. While I respect Howard's opinions on his religious outlook, I tend to side with Teekay, who believes, as I do, that HOS BIBLOS has been bastardized by the interpretations of man through the years. The Church and State are separate now, but five hundred years ago they were not. Five hundred years ago the churches had all the power: the priests were educated; the priests could read, whereas the average Joe in the streets had to trust to the priests' interpretation of things. So the Bible has been written in it original Aramaic and Greek, transcribed to Latin, and then to English. Words that have ambiguous meanings were looked at and considered, and chosen for the message they contained, as perceived by those people trying to interpret it. The name Barabbas means 'The son of man': Abbas being the anceint Aramaic word for 'man', Bar meaning 'son of'. When the Gospel of Matthew was written, it was during the time of the Roman invasion. The Temple was not yet destroyed, and yet, to get the message of love and acceptance to the rest of the world, it was made as a conscious decision to try and convert the pagans because the Jews of the day refused to accept Jehuda bar Joseph as their Messias. They were waiting for the 'Lion of God', and instead, received the 'Lamb of God'. So the early Christians did what they could to convince a pagan world that the 'new god' they were offering was better than the polytheistic choices that were out there. But what proper Roman or cosmopolitan Greek would accept a god who was a criminal and had died as a criminal? Sure, Apollo was a thief and a trickster, but he was an Olympian. He was a son of Zeus, and long confirmed. This other god was an itinerant carpenter who was killed for political reasons only. He was a faith healer whos followers laid claims to godhead for him. He never proclaimed himself to be what others said he was. He merely accepted it, and chose not to refute it.

My own research had brought me to the discovery that as a son in the house of David, Jehuda was the true king of Isreal. And as such he was a threat, to Herod, who's father had been placed on the throne by the Romans--Pompey I think (but don't quote me on that--in fact don't quote me on anything...) As the true King of the Jews, he might very well have gathered a large following behind him, and may well have frightened the status quo who were trying to keep the peace, but at the same time were dealing with the Romans and the zealous followers of John--another mad prophet living in the wilds and proclaimung a new king of the Jews to follow.

So writing the books of the NT that followed after all of these events, interpretting it so that those people living half way around the Roman world, why would these men write down that their leader was a rebel and had died for no other reason than political intrigue?

For every arguement that is made claiming the goodness and godliness of any religious icon, there is an arguement against it. There is two thousand years of history that has slipped in between yesterday and today. Christ was not even called a God until Constantine made him one. For the first three hundred years of early Christianity they were looked at as a plague.

So, after this has been going on for five or six hundred years--the jews refusing him, and the Christians newly establishing themselves--some man comes walking out of the desert and says that he's had a vision. He claims that Jesus was a prophet and that Allah spoke through him and that he has a message to deliver the world. He preaches love, acceptance, forgiveness--and then his words are turned around, taken out of context, and used as propoganda to help feed the Crusades, and then turned over again and flipped inside out and all around, so that today those words are being used to fuel terrorist activities--oh wait, isn't that how this all started in the first place? Weren't the Zealots just terrorists? Or have they been forgiven and accepted because one of them was called an Apostle--a desciple of the One true God as he is now referred to?

So, you see, as much as these discussions are interesting, and inciteful, they will never be resolved because of peoples' own incites and interests are only what they have been shown as interpretted by someone five hundred years ago. Any discussion of the Bible and religion should probably include texts from the Dead Sea SCrolls, and the Aporcyphal texts. Gnosticism, and all those other schisms over the centuries, have all been melded into the religion of today. The Catholic Church, for all that anyone might think of it, was the first Church, along with the Greek Orthodox Church...and they split up over the interpretation of a single word. A single word people. Do you think the words the Terrorists of today are using are the proper interpretation? Do you think Mohammed meant that they should go out and kill everyone who didn't accept the Word of Allah? Do you think it has anything to do with Allah at all?

Okay, I've gotten a little carried away here, and I'm probably gonna catch a lot of shit from a lot of different people, but that's because everything I just said is open to interpreation. If we had a man who claimed to be the son of God today; if such a man proved he was, do you think he would be accepted at face value? Even if he performed miracles, and rose people from the dead, do you honestly believe that in this day and age--with the cynical side of life such a prevalent philosophy in today's society--that he would be accepted? Do you not think that those people who followed him would not be ostracised by their friends and society in general? But how about a thousand years from now? Or two? What do you think the world would think of him then?

There are two truths to everything. The truth as it is, and the truth as it is written. I like to keep an open mind. I might have been born a Catholic, and sort of raised as one--my father refused to go to church once they changed from Latin to English--but I've become something of an Agnostic over the years. Not quite a pagan, and not totally Atheist: Everything is open to interpretation in my eyes, you just have to know how to put the right spin on it.

I'm not gonna check this for spelling because I don't want to read it and change my mind about entering it.

BTW Rachel: ???

ben 10-7-2003 14:28


Debra, I worked for a music publisher/producer when I first moved to Nashville (and know many songwriters, including myself) and the answer to your question is a resounding NO, it is not common for companies to ask you for money when using your songs, it is supposed to be the other way around. Typically, the publisher acts as kind of an agent, taking 50% of your royalties in exchange for making a "demo" (good recorded demonstration) of your song and "pitching" it to recording artists and labels. You can copyright your songs yourself and I recommend you sign up with either BMI or ASCAP before sending any material out to anyone else.

Carol, it's good to see you, I'm sorry to hear about the Lupus. I did know a gal who had that and it seemed that it could be pretty well controlled with medication, so hopefully you will be feeling better once that kicks in.

No time to join Deep Discussions today, I'm working a double and have to go to work soon. I was just checking in to keep up on posts but wanted to tell Debra not to send those phonies any money.

Later...

pamela 10-7-2003 10:58

Does anyone know how the music business works? I was contacted by two record companies to see some of my songs. I was later contacted again with contracts for a different song from each and both asked me for a couple of hundred dollars first, of course stating they would return it either way.

Is that common or are they thiefs? There address was North Vine in Hollywood CA. It sounded like a normal nice section of tinsle town.



Debra 10-7-2003 10:38

Mel:


That's pretty darn busy. I'm braking out in a sweat just picturing that.

Sit down take a load off for a while.


Debra 10-7-2003 10:04

Teekay:

I've been thinking about you too. I remember when we thought we could lose weight not having honey in our tea. How long did that last, five minutes. Sheeeesh


Sunny:

Maybe I should tell you that we also carry a nice selection of seafood too. Heeeheee.



Debra 10-7-2003 8:58

Hi, Everyone!

I've been busier than a three-legged ant dragging 50-pound pork steaks (on the hoof) to a Hawaiian luau (sp?).

Meanwhile, I've been lurking. And wishing I had more time to add my three cents to the religious discussions!

At last, however, two people have drawn me to this brief post:

HOWARD, you should have been a minister --- wait, I think you are! :-]

TEEKAY, I just began teaching a bible study class based on the Bethel Series - interdenominational, the majority of the bible studied in 40 lessons from cover to cover and summarized in basic concepts. Your remark that "If God wanted us all to be perfect then why not make us that way to begin with?" --however mischievously or innocently asked-- cries for an answer, an answer I have! :-) HE DID make us--and everything--GOOD. It is the MISUSE of the good things God created that brings in the evil. God gave us FREE WILL so we can CHOOSE to love and worship Him - or not. He gave us freedom BUT WITHIN LIMITS. We can choose to be obedient to His "thou shalts" and "thou shalt nots" or we can choose otherwise. Those "otherwise" choices are what issue in the evil in our world and our separation from our Creator.

There's always more to say but not enough time to say it.

I wish peace to each of you - and lots of writing time today! :-]

Mel 10-7-2003 8:36

HOWARD: You're back :-). I'm so happy.

You know, just about every religion states that its God is the one true God.

How about if all these Gods were the exact same God and just the nitty gritty stuff got mixed up?
Like it was okay for some humans to own other humans? Like women's testimony only being worth half that of men in a court of law, or people with black skin being unable to have any rights, or having your head covered, or having your son/daughter stoned to death if he/she should flout your rule, or getting burned in hellish damnation, but not to die but to suffer for all eternity?

On my own search I did a lot of exploring and reading. There were times through the bible I thought, bloody hell, what if this is the one true way, and then I read part of the Q'ran and I thought, bloody hell, what if this is the one true one? Then I dabbled a bit in Buddhism, and then I decided that each has their truths and who am I to question any of them?

I will simply live my best life and I shall love the Lord God with all my heart, soul and mind, but I can't and don't want to give up the free will he bestowed upon me in order to honour what I believe to be the dictates of man to control the minds (and monies)of the masses.


I don't wonder that those, having been brought up with those eternal fires of damnation raging beneath their feet. I imagine I'd be sticking to my guns too.
Bit risky to even think to explore another belief when one's own clearly states that this is the one and only way, the one and only God and don't dare to question or watch out.

How about a God untampered by the smallness of humans, one that's bigger than allowing a soul to burn eternally, one without spite and vengeance who doesn't give free will only to snatch it back.
The beauty of this is that if I am right, it doesn't make you wrong, and I need not fear for your soul or anybody elses because the God I believe in is your God and everybody elses God and how can he not be for as we've been told in numerous religions God is the One and the All, and you can only have one of them.

Just consider: If this life is a lesson, what lesson can one learn when one's mind is forever bound, told what to believe, what to think?
And with that neverending fire burning at one's soul, is it such a big ask to go unquestioningly through 70 or maybe 100 odd years of life bowing to the dictates of a manmade religion that condones slaying the perceived enemies of God, the stoning of disobedient children and immoral adults, and the perpetuation that there are people in this world who are better than others simply because of their sex and their race.

And if it's not a lesson, then what's the point?
If God wanted us all to be perfect then why not make us that way to begin with?
Why make us at all?

BTW: If I don't post tomorrow you can safely assume that I have been struck by lightning in which case I suggest you probably best ignore everything I have just written.

Love you :-).










Teekay 10-7-2003 3:01

No, I'm not offended.

All I can do is simply state what I believe. And I am personally acquainted with more than a few Bible Scholars who believe the same things. But they would be the first to tell you that their PHDs, DDs, MDIVs, etc etc are not what qualifies them to speak with authority. The Apostle Paul, (quite a noted Bible scholar in his own right) says "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor 2:14 So that authority comes not so much with formal education as it does with simple faith.
But that faith must be rooted in the right foundation:

Jesus said that "God is a spirit, and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." John 4:24

A little farther on He said "I am the way, the truth and the life; no man comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Hey -- argue with Him, not me...

The Bible also rules out reincarnation: "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement." Hebrews 9:27


Again, His words.

Communicating with the dead? Sure, there are examples in the Bible where that has happened, but the OT forbids it.

The final sacrifice, and the reason for it? John 3:16 says
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

"All have sinned..." Romans 3:23

"The wages of sin are death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23

"Mean?"
Try Holy. Righteous. Just. Loving. If He's who He says He is, then He has a right to demand that his creation come to Him on His terms.

Like I said, I know many Bible scholars who believe and teach all these things. But I do not base my belief, nor my eternal destiny on what these men say. They cannot save anyone. I (and they) base this belief, and our eternal life, and to the best of our ability our temporal lives, on the finished work of Jesus, and on a personal relationship with Him.

That's all from here. Anyone wishing to argue or deny any of that will have to take it up with the author. He's more than willing to answer any questions you might have. He doesn't take offense, but reaches out in forgivness. And you can easily recognise the hands He holds out to you -- they're the ones with the nail-scars in them.














howard 10-7-2003 1:07

Mark - reminded me of one night when I was but a young rookie, ridding around in this very town when we overheard on the CB (tells you the year span doesn't it) a couple of gals saying they wanted to party. Well being a young fellow myself, and a bit on the bored side, I started chatting with them on the CB. After several back and forth sessions, I asked if they had any beer, "Sure we do" they said, so I arranged to meet them in an alley behind the grocery store. When they showed up, I arrested them for being minors in possession of alcohol, took their beer and escorted them home to their very upset parents.

Jerry Ericsson 10-7-2003 0:14

Hi All!

Viv -- hello, hello, hello!!! hehehehe Actually I did send you a nice long chatty email today. Now, to get my head into writing fiction. What? My letter IS fiction? Oops!

I finally had the dr. confirm a diagnosis of lupus for me. The main good thing about that is he has now put me on the proper medication. Now to find the patience to wait two months for the meds to reach their peek efficiency. Oh but I hope it helps the old brain pan! And the fatigue. And the weakness. And the pain. And .... ok, so its a seemingly endless list!

Debra and Sunny - good to see both of you back on the board again.

Everyone else -- a big hello. As soon as I get back to being myself, I hope to contribute more to the workbook. I have been jotting down ideas at least. Now to get the brain working on actually creating something. In the meantime, I start an art club next Sat. It meets for three hours, any medium. We just bring in the project of our choice and work together, learning from each other and the teacher. I'm really looking forward to it.

Take care everyone. I'm going to enjoy the warm day forecasted for tomorrow. Maybe take the camera with and snap a few shots of those lovely trees ......

Carol 10-7-2003 0:01

SUNNY: HA! What a fluke.
I just did a google search and Joan Anderson wrote - 'An Unfinished Marriage' and Lillian Hellman wrote 'An Unfinshed Woman'.

Wonderland is this big theme park near Sydney.
Pretty much as I imagine Disneyland to be only smaller.

Teekay 10-6-2003 17:53

*Sunny*

Teekay -- Now that you mention it, I think it was "An Unfinished Woman".

When I had the conversation I'm referring to with my Dad, it was through the services of a channeler/medium, although I talk to him all the time on my own. It was nice and reassuring to hear certain things that only I could have known and appreciated.

You're not going off the deep end, unless you want to consider that we're both there already. ;-)

What's "wonderland"? Is that like oz?



Sunny 10-6-2003 17:29

Hi All,

SUNNY: Was that book called 'An Unfinished Marriage'?

I believe you talked to your Dad too.

I believe that there are people who have a natural ability of communicating with those who no longer exist in what we term the physical body, although we think this is the reality I'm more of the thought that after 'life' is in fact the Real Life.

I believe, with practise, everybody is capable of doing so.

Am I moving closer and closer to the nutter side of things :-D

Apart from the fact that my beliefs have some kind of scientific substantiality (not that one needs backing when dealing with faith, but for cynics one would think it gave some kind of basis to go by) it is amazing how many people think I'm totally off the planet and deluding myself.


DEBRA: Hi there :-). I have been wondering about you. Everytime I see anything about an airshow I think of you.

My sister and her family have gone to wonderland for the day - it's soooo (for MARK :-D) quiet here.
They are going home Thursday morning and I'm going to miss them s.. a lot.

Be well all.



Teekay 10-6-2003 16:29

Hi all,

Wanted to drop a line to say I'm lovin the conversation posted. I do play to reply, but I have to write a couple of papers first. Ah, the joy of it all ;o)

Viv,

I am lurking a bit, sort of, but wanted to say "Hello!"

Cynthia,

I hope to get to look at your revised copy of Mandy and the Snowman in the next day or so. I'm looking forward to it.

RDRKO

Rachel 10-6-2003 11:20

*Sunny*

Hi everyone!

Debra -- there's a good book by Joan Anderson (the title escapes me at the moment) about a woman who spends a year on Cape Cod getting to know herself. She works in a fish market and discovers more than she ever could have imagined.

Rachel -- I just love your intellectual curiosity and joie de vrie!

Pamela and Teekay -- I agree with you both, totally. I am deeply spiritual, and connected with my religion, but I don't believe that any one group has a leg up on anyone else. That's why the world is so wonderfully diverse. There is no such thing as "right" or "better". I respect everyone's beliefs (as long as they aren't harmful to others), and only hope that they bring the believers personal peace and happiness.

Yes, I believe that I did "talk" to my dad. :-) He was wonderfully himself, with his particular sense of humor and personal knowledge intact. I felt comforted with the connection and glad that I had the experience of doing it.

My book is now in its production phase, and I'm working on the companion book, although it will be about a year before the publishers will consider it. I just need to write! I'm also re-designing my web page and doing a bunch of other stuff in order to be ready when this book comes out. I didn't promote my first one as well as I could have, and I don't want to make that mistake again.

Hope everyone's feeling OK, and enjoying the Fall/Spring in your part of the world!

Luv ya,



Sunny 10-6-2003 11:17

Viv:

Oh my gosh the characters. I feel like I'm stealing. I love it there so much. I have office skills and a degree to go with them. I love the butcher shop.



Debra 10-6-2003 9:48

Hi Debra- Me too...very busy! What is the butcher shop like? I'll bet you get a good selection of characters who walk in the door.

Randall, Open boxes outside. Don't smell the boxes when they arrive. Dog still house training. Dog is male. Liked the challenge of lifting his back leg high enough. Cat liked them too. Good scratching post. Miss the boxes in my hallway. At least I knew where to mop.
Hope all arrives intact. Finally got them to post office Saturday. Husband got tired of going sideways down the hallway and took them there.

Carol, I'm down. Can't wait for three more weeks. Then course is finished and I can start writing something other than sucky little lesson plans. Caught a cold from the students. Am concentrating on giving it to all my Chinese students so they will say it is SARS and shut the school down. Life goes on as usual. Don't lurk. Tell me hello!

Viv 10-6-2003 6:48

Hi everyone. I've been super busy lately and even went back to work at a local butcher shop down the street from my house.

I have missed you all and hope I'll have time to be here like before.

Debra

Debra 10-5-2003 22:27

MARK: methinks you are a closet misogynist :-)
And BTW, I was quoting RACHEL with that quote you attributed to me, but I still agree with it.

PAMELA: I agree with you on just about everything especially your take on morality issues.

Lets snuggle deep in our lounge chairs and grab a drink of choice, a few snacks and discuss:

About religion in schools,
my take is that as long as there are different religions, there will always be a right and a wrong, one will always be better than the other, one religion will be the one true religion and all the others will just be delusions - according to those who have been lucky or sophisticated or wise enough to have picked the 'true' religion..

Won't we just be moving the peas around the plate.

Seems to me the problem at this particular point in time is Fundamental Islam V The Infadels.

Does the teaching of F.I. have a place in public schools, or is it best to study what we perceive to be safe and peaceful religions?
F.I. has schools dedicated to its teachings and have an amazing amount of pupils ready and willing to die for the cause.

If it is thought that F.I has no place in the world, let alone in public schools, then what is the point of teaching any, for isn't the point of becoming open minded about religions thought to be a step in solving the hate within the world?



It has been scientifically proven (as far as proof goes and depending how much stake you put in science) that everything on this planet, including this planet and every human, and rock and what have you, all consist of exactly the same matter spinning at different vibrational levels. The slower the vibration, the denser the object.

What about life force, or energy - is that God? Is God the very life force that fills each and every one of us with the same essence?

I like to think so.

I totally agree with you on the re-incarnation theory.

It is scientifically proven that energy does not disappear.

Given that, I wonder that it make people so reluctant to consider reincarnation as a possibilty?
That life on earth might be simply a growing/learning experience for our souls?

I find it much more difficult to consider that when we die our bodies are burnt or left to decompose, but will at the time of judgement be resurrected to live a paradisical eternal life on earth?

Bloody hell, if that was the case I think I'd just rather be dead and done with it.

As for humans who believe they are the most sophisticated life form of all, so special that they may be the only life form in our entire universe, or that they are the only ones who can think of such a sophisticated society (tongue in cheek) that we have now, just blows me away.

So, just to sum it all up God to me is everything that exists wether one chooses to deny it or not. Saying God isn't so, simply doesn't make it so. God's feelings won't be hurt, God is larger than that. (At leatst 'My' God is :-D)
Religion on the other hand is a label put on numerous boxes to help understand the enormity of that which cannot be explained, and to control the masses.

In my opinion we are responsible for our spiritual growth.
It's a private matter between our souls and God.

Pray in private.
Keep it out of Government. Keep it out of schools.
Sounds good to me.

Hmm, am thinking I'd definitely be labelled as a heretic, despite the fact that I feel God totally encompasses everything within and around me.

A heretic or a nutter :-)

Going....








Teekay 10-5-2003 20:46

PAMELA -- "So" by itself isn't so bad. It's just that there are so many instances of it where it is so annoying or so overused.

Johnny Carson used to have a schtick wherein he'd say, "It was so hot yesterday," and the audience would respond, "How hot was it?" Everybody understood that as a qualifer, "so" needs more information to make the thought complete.

"Those crooks were so stupid."
"How stupid were they?"
"They answered the car phone in a car they just stole, and agreed to meet a cop who said he'd buy the car from them."

The word is problematic when it is used as an emphasizer. a role it plays none too well: "Ohmygawd, the Grand Canyon is SO big." "You should have been there last night, my parents are SO stupid." This kind of language is used by kids who think that ideas don't need completion. Those people are stupid, 'nuff said.

In adults, that 'so' emphasiser exists mainly in womanspeak. Like 'very,' it serves to draw out the verbage.

You can ask people, I'm just so very happy.

Mark 10-5-2003 14:33

A short (I promise) postscript: Jack, I checked out your dive site and loved it, though haven't watched all the videos yet. Your accompanying writing is good too, "animated false teeth" -- funny!

pamela 10-5-2003 14:03

~Pamela~

Pinkelton: have they caught you yet? Hide!

I agree with Rachel that it could be good for the major religions to be studied in schools as long as it did not involve any proselytism. I guess it would be theology rather than religion, and I think it could be done like studying history: here are the main (known) facts, make of it what you will. Understanding other points of view could lead to more tolerance and acceptance. (Too bad schools can't teach how stupid racism is, since many parents don't seem to do it.) Many people dismiss out of hand that which they know nothing about, such as reincarnation. It is amazing how many people think this involves turning into an animal in another life, which would be transmutation (although I rather like the idea of a Hitler turning into a cockroach that could do no harm). This country is so Christian-oriented that Shirley MacLaine is still joked about for writing about her spiritual experiences a few decades ago. Here, people who believe in reincarnation are regarded as nutcases; apparently few are aware that this is the most widely-held belief in the world. There also seems to be more proof for it than other scenerios, as far as proof of something intangible can be shown. There are many well-documented cases of people (often children who haven't been unduly influenced by adults yet) remembering details from a previous life which they would have no way of knowing in this one (look up Shanti Devi for a fascinating account). Some explanations for this phenomena, such as a collective consciousness or being able to somehow tap into others' lives, are more far-fetched than the idea of reincarnation itself. What is the name of that principle in science that the most simple explanation is probably the correct one? Also, weren't the first two guys who translated the Bible into English (the basis for what we use today) executed as heretics at the time?

Religion should have no place in the running of a government, that is why we have outdated vice laws that actually infringe on the rights of citizens. The victimless crimes should be a matter of personal choice, not governed by others' ideas of morality. Using drugs is NOT listed as one of the criminal activities in the Constitution, and if they were legal, they could be better controlled, more affordable (which could help prevent crimes committed to get them), the government could make money (from taxation) rather than organized crime, the overcrowding of prisons would be eliminated, and law enforcement could devote their time to stopping crimes against persons. Ditto for prostitution and gamblimg (except for the prison issue). "Vice" is defined as an immoral practice and, sorry, but people have the right to indulge in such as long as it involves consenting adults. Personally, I think killing your unborn child because you were too lazy to get on birth control is much more immoral than smoking a joint (I'm not talking about the truly extreme cases like rape or incest, but abortion being used as a means of retroactive birth control, the predominant usage for it today). Laws should be based on not infringing on the rights of others: rape, robbery, homicide, etc. This really has nothing to do with morality; a society must have some rules in order for large groups of people to live together (everyone must agree to stop when the light is red or we would all be crashing into each other).

ND, welcome, and thanks for your input on the biblical discussion, (babies are wonderful, but not the greatest conversationalists!). I still think that a council which convened to put the books together could have been influenced by the politics of the time. Or certainly the book could have been edited after they were all dead and gone (The Byzantine emperor Justinian's consort, Theodonia, is said to have removed all references to reincarnation because she did not like the idea of having to return and face the results of her actions). I'll ask it again, where ARE the missing 20 years of Jesus' life? What is the official Christian explanation for the MAJORITY of this all-important figure's life to be totally unaccounted for? What do they say about historical reports of Jesus (or his twin brother) appearing in India during that time?

Teekay, I didn't mean to imply that we questioned authority for its own sake, just when there are apparent discrepencies and inconsistencies. I'm sure that there are examples of authority being used wisely and for the good of all (I just can't think of any right now!).

Rachel, yes, I meant to say diaper-LESS night, and two in a row now, it sounds like Seb is really getting the hang of it.

Rhoda, I'm glad I didn't offend you (and hopefully not Howard, either). Also, I do not mean to be imposing my belief in reincarnation on others, in fact, I hope I am wrong! When I read about it at age 15, something clicked inside me like, oh yeah, I KNEW that. Personally, I hope the athiests are right; nothingness would be great, a nice, dreamless sleep without having to deal with anything.

Teekay, you can see that you aren't the only one writing long posts.

Mark, when proof-reading this, I saw that I only used the word "so" once. So there! :)

Love you, guys,



pamela 10-5-2003 13:49

TEEKAY wrote "I believe that we don't even begin to know that which we do not know "

Uh, I don't know. You know?

Mark 10-5-2003 9:46

Oh shoot, that was really long.
Sorry.

No wonder Joe was getting cranky.

Teekay 10-5-2003 6:13

RACHEL: I'm thinking I agree absolutely with :I believe that we don't even begin to know that which we do not know

'Religion', and by religion I mean the indoctrination of a set of laws and principles that are to be accepted without question, and the divisions it causes is one of the major problems amongst the human race.

You said religion and state were inseperable.
I'm still not clear on what you mean by religion.

But I know people who have no religion.
I know people who have 'religion' only on a Sunday.

Am thinking George Bush brought his 'religion' to Government and even though the 10 commandments said 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' he issued the deaths of countless people.
(Not stating a point of view, simply an observation)
So just because someone is religious does not mean they apply the teachings of the bible to their lives.

And wasn't it Bill Clinton who broke the 'Thou shalt not commit adultery' commandment?

Do these peole really believe their religion? Or are they simply using it as a shield, or a weapon? Is it a cloak to be worn or discarded depending on the choices to be made?

Then I think, can one who truly believes every word of the bible even bring himself to be in politics, because just about everyday of your life would hold some kind of moral dilemma to which you would have to turn a blind eye, and can one who has found the deeper truth through the bible even be interested in political achievement? Would they not have their energies focused on a higher state?

On the other hand and in what I have stated my idea of 'religion' to mean, I can't speak for Canada or anywhere else on earth, but in Australia I find that religion and state is definitely seperate.
Religion has no part to play in the decisions we make as a democracy, they may try, but a bit like protestors they don't do much to sway the general feeling.

I guess depending one isn't too zealous, one can keep religion and state seperate if they are in a position of governmental power, rather as if they would not allow their penchant for dressing in women's clothing (if they're male) would not influence their career decisions.

As far as politics in the bible well ain't that the truth. Haven't PAMELA and I been saying that all along?

That's why I needed to know your take on what religion was.

You wrote: Teek, How can a person who knows nothing of anothers religion/value and basis of life and belief ever in thruth respect that person? You can't learn to respect a person because you have good self esteem. To me this sounds like you could dream of a world of egoists. Kind of cool, just as long as all the other egoists don't find out about it :o)
I honestly fail to see how self esteem (by this I mean love and respect of self), respect for others and love for others has anything whatsoever to do with ego.

Ego is probably the next fundamental problem amongst mankind.

To teach an assortment of 'religions' in schools in order that others may respect, yet not agree or even believe in those principles is rather like teaching mythology and excpecting it to be applied to life.
Should one not respect people whatever their choice of religion, simply because they are human?

Do the fundamental religions get to be taught in schools too?
Who decides which religions have the right to be taught or have credence?
Do people who have no desire to learn of other religions because they may see them as pointless obstacles have to sit through these lessons also?


Gotta go, Joe's freaking out and kicking me off the computer cos I've been here too long.



Teekay 10-5-2003 6:12

hold it!! It's a wine night, and I just wanted to check back and see what the hell this is all about. Religion? You guys are talking about religion? I want to read everything and put my two cents worth in because there are two truths: the Truth, the the Gospel truth.

Oh, and btw, I saw SECOND HAND LIONS and thought it was one of the best moveies this year...but right now I'm watching GODFATHER III.

Ben

ben 10-5-2003 3:03

My husband and I saw SECOND HAND LIONS tonight. Now there is a movie! I think it is the best one I have seen all year.

Brain is still on vacation. I am itching to join in this tantalizing discussion, but I will refrain for now. RACHEL, JERRY ERICSSON, and TEEKAY have brought some interesting fodder for this topic, but I must resist the temptation to add my two cents worth. The relatives have left and I am catching my breath.

I am trying to get a job for the Christmas holidays, and I have signed up for what seems to me a vast amount of commitments. I get tired just thinking of it all. Of course it is 1:13 am my time, and it is late, and it is no wonder I am tired when I should have been in bed a couple of hours ago.

And speaking of religion ... I must get to bed now if I am going to wake up in time to go to Sunday School.

Rhoda 10-5-2003 2:09

Teekay,

Every person who is in a political position brings who they are into the matter. Their religion is with them, as is the religion of those who voted them in. We are dreaming if we think that religion doesn't play a part in things. (that is one level) Look in the bible and you will see that religion and state were joined in the old test. Check it out girlie, girl. Tis always more exciting to learn and pick it out for yourself. I won't expand any further on it, because, as I said, sometimes one needs to learn and explore for ones self. This, will be one of those times.

Teek, How can a person who knows nothing of anothers religion/value and basis of life and belief ever in thruth respect that person? You can't learn to respect a person because you have good self esteem. To me this sounds like you could dream of a world of egoists. Kind of cool, just as long as all the other egoists don't find out about it :o)

I think that people are afraid to teach the religions of others, because that is exactly what will bring about the tolerance that so many spout off wishing to see. If people understood, not just thought they understood, but in fact did, understand, that, that would be the start of a new way of thinking. We however think we know it all. I believe that we don't even begin to know that which we do not know. By the time we sort it all out, it won't matter.

I also think that people are afraid to teach religions of others because they think they will have members of their flock turn away. Sure, it could happen, but so could others explore their religion.

I think religion is messed up in a big way. I think that someplace there is one who sits in wonder at how far from the mark we are. Yup, we certainly did sin in our aim.

Nite you.

RDRKO

Rachel 10-5-2003 1:24


Howdy ND - unusuall name that. I used to live in ND (North Dakota) till I moved south to SD (South Dakota).

Have a neighbor who is named Dakota, his Sister is Montana, and their brother is Barn. Guess they named the children after where they were concieved. Their kids can be happy that they can't afford to fly, or they might have brothers and sisters named 747 or Concord, or maybe Airbus.

I guess my thinking on religion and the state here in the good old U S of A, is this: The Supreme Court pray to god before opening each session. Both houses of Congress have chaplins who open each day of law making with a prayer to God. The President is a Christian as are the majority of those who make the laws, and those who rule on the constitutionality of those laws. Our founding fathers were all Christians. When I was a child in Grammar School, in North Dakota the ten commandments were posted a frame in the rear of the school room (One room, ok so I'm an old fart) this was required by the State of North Dakota. Up until some idiot sued and managed to get the then liberal Supreme Court to decide that there was a "seperation of church and state" in the Constitution, (a court made law read the Constitution!) all this was legal.

When I was stationed with The Old Guard (The Army's Official Ceramonial Unit and Escort to the President) at Fort Meyer Va, we were shocked when the courts ruled that there could be no natavity scene on Federal Grounds (There was one across the street from the Ellips on private land).

It's been a downhill ride ever since. The liberal's and their court made laws have removed God from the schools, from the families and from nearly everywhere. We are now in a situation where admitting that you believe in God in a public place may lead to you being sued for forcing your religion on others. This is surely not what the framers of the Constitution, (nearly all Christians) meant when they wrote in the Constitution "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

Ok now read those words, do they tell you that there will be a "seperation of church and state?"

I Don't think so!

What they tell us is that we cannot be forced to attend a "state" church, and that the State cannot form the Church of the United States! The founders didn't want to see another Church of England! But they would be rolling over in their graves now to see how their words have been bastardized by the courts (well by the lawyers and the courts!)

Look back at the early readers from the schools of the 19th century and you will find quotes from the christian bible, the Lord's Prayer and many other relieious teachings, this in the early readers for first through third grade. That surely shows that there was no "seperation of church and state" back then. This idea has lead to the loss of religion in our time, and some (myself included) believe that it has caused much of the strife that we now face in our cities, the hate, the crime, the murder and rape of our brothers and sisters.

When school is prevented from even mentioning God then it leads to the loss of personal accountability, and the belief that it ain't against the law if you don't get caught attitude. Once one learns this, it's a quick trip to it's ok to steal, it's ok to rape, it's ok to kill so long as you are carefull and don't get caught!

Ok that's my rant for the week.

Haven't got my spell checker installed as of yet since I replaced my ailing hard drive with a brand spanking new 80 giger, so excuse the spelling.

Jerry Ericsson 10-5-2003 0:45

MARK: Am wondering if your wife would be happy with your last post :-D

RACHEL: I'm more of the view that religion should be taken out of all schools, replaced by self esteem classes, respect for others classes, and love (or if impossible tolerate) thy neighbour classes.

It is said that if you're looking for God you have already found him.
When I was at school we always had religious instruction. The Catholic kids would go here, the Lutheran kids would go there, the Anglicans would go off somewhere else.
All Christians, all teachings from the bible, all divided.

You wrote: I do not believe that you can seperate religion and state,
I found this a tantalising statement and am interested to know what you meant by it in more detail.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by religion. Is religion the belief in a higher power, or an order of law passed from a higher power, or a distorted law from a human power, or is it the all encompassing 'what is' that has no bounds and we can only try and contemplate what 'it' might be?


Anyhow, if you're sick of this conversation that's cool, you don't need to answer, I just found it stimulating and interesting.

RHODA: You said: I know you two are imaginative and intelligent people.
And you are totally right!
HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH, oh dear, there I go again.

HOWARD: Hmmmmmmmmmmm, canned tomatoes.
Hope Dorrie is okay.

PAMELA: I don't think my aim is to question authority for the sake of questioning authority. I'm questioning certain aspects of the bible (or any organised religion really) because of things I have read in regard to the afterlife and near death experiences etc etc.
I feel that now, to place my faith unquestioningly in only the bible would be like having viewed the night sky, and then have somebody tell me that a torch is the only source of light there is.

Welcome N.D. :-)

going.....

Teekay 10-4-2003 23:20

They have come for me...

Pinkelton Sherwood 10-4-2003 22:07

TEEKAY and PAMELA,

I took no offense. I know you two are imaginative and intelligent people. I had a hard day balancing company, school and a very busy schedule and was not able to think about deep subjects, and I was impatient with myself for having dived in when I did not have the time and the energy to give any what I considered well thought out and intelligent responses.

Rhoda 10-4-2003 19:28

Hello All. I enjoyed your discussions on religion this morning. I feel like I am participating in adult conversation! I adore my son, but at 5 months his response to my enquiries about his day and how he feels is limited to sweet coos and giggles.

Pamela: I appreciate your questions about Christianity. In the new testament a group of people called the Bereans were commended for questioning everything the followers of Jesus said. In fact they were called noble. It is so right and good to test everything and hold on to that which is good. Such as the cannonization of the bible...acutally that process was very lengthy and intense according to many historical records. Contrary to popular belief, it wasn't a crap shoot. The process is fascinating and yet challenging.

Rahel--thanks again for encouraging words.

ND

ND 10-4-2003 17:02

Hi Pamela,

You said "Rachel, big congrats on getting Seb to use the diapers at night," I think you intended to say "not use the diapers at night" the rest of your post made me think that.

Yeah, I am pleased. We had another dry night! Sebastian rocks :o) He is such a cool kid. He is going to start pre-school in January. I think that University will need to wait a couple of more years (grins and laughter).

RDRKO

Rachel 10-4-2003 11:53

Teekay,

Well, my class is an assembly of people for conference and deliberation ;o) There are times when I get so filled with passion about a debate and other times when I sit back in my seat and sigh internally. To sigh out loud would invite debate...

Pamela,

I often wonder what was left out or modified in the translations of text for the bible. I think about the politics of the time and the people who would have been able to get their hands into what things should and should not mean. I think about the whole concept of God/Gods more that I would like to admit. This leads me back to multiculturalism. I think that if my government wasn't just blowing smoke about the whole event that they would teach religion in the schools. Not just one religion, but a course in all of them, or at least the big five or so. There is so much ignorance, prejudice, misconception, preconception, innocence and steyotyping going on with relgions. Not enough people know or understand why other groups do things or feel certain ways about things. I've met people who don't even understand the foundations and basis of their own religion! I do not believe that you can seperate religion and state, not in any true form. Religion is always there, in the minds of those who rule, it impacts on how the govern. It comes down to vote maximization and religious convictions. Least wise, that is how I see it. The two are often so mixed and woven togethere that you can't see where one issue ends and another begins.

I am not suggesting that they should teach religion non stop. I am saying that there should be a semester long class. I took one that I think could be modified to be very child friendly. I don't see how we can all get along if we don't know what the others way of thinking is based upon.

So much for taking a rest from this...

I should be well distracted from it soon. I need to write a paper today. I've got the preliminary work done, now it is my task to bring a little flow and grace to it.

RDRKO

Rachel 10-4-2003 11:44

PAMELA -- No condescension intended at all. I only meant that I'd try to get it all into a short (relatively) post.
More later -- we're canning tomatoes and applesauce this morning, and my wife is hurting. Had to take her to the ER the other night, as she could hardly move and was in lots of pain. So I'll be cranking sauce, carrying canners, etc most of the day.


howard 10-4-2003 9:38

~Pamela~

Jerry and Howard, thanks for home remedies and man's point of view, respectively, good laughs.

That being said, Howard, I found your "try again" to be a little condescending. I don't see what difference it makes that they prayed at certain times of day, or what the Jewish Law was that Christians later changed to suit themselves, Jesus said to pray in private, period. I agree with Teekay that sometimes it seems that man has created God in his image rather than the other way around. Are the biblical scholars all wrong? Every single one of them? I guess so, since obviously you Christians never are. It's your way or the highway (straight to hell).

Rhoda, please don't take this personally, it's just a discussion and people like Teekay and I like to Question Authority. We ask logical questions when we should know that logic and Chrisitanity are not compatible, surely even you can see that. Why was God so mean in the Old Testament and (allegedly) so loving in the New? Where ARE the missing 20 years of Jesus' life? Why AREN'T the hidden texts taken seriously; they are examples of writings that haven't been tampered with by politicians. Because they don't fit in with what is perhaps a bastardized version of the truth? There were tons of letters and writings floating around back then, biblical scholars say it was a crapshoot as to what made it into the final manuscript. Oh yeah, but they're all full of grupp, aren't they? Spirituality is spirituality is spirituality and no one has an absolute lock on it. Arguments about this DO lead to much of the violence and terrorism in the world today. Spirituality is about Love, the good force in life, and being judgemental and saying people who don't believe as you do will burn in hell isn't very loving. Or logical. IMHO.

Teekay, you ARE sooooooo funny!

Mark, so maybe you can't talk on the phone while you're in the loo, but you can work crossword puzzles there, I've seen it many a time. So you fellers can multi-task after all!

Rachel, big congrats on getting Seb to use the diapers at night, I know it's a big step for the little guy (and you!). Next thing you know, he'll be in college!

Hi to Cynthia L. and ND, good luck with your writing.

PS to Rhoda, please don't be offended or discouraged by religious questioners like myself, I am glad for you that God and the Bible have had such a positive effect on your life. I wish I could believe in a big benevolent Man In The Sky, but I have had so many bad experiences in my life that I just can't. I love you and respect your beliefs even if I don't agree with them.

pamela 10-4-2003 4:39

ND,

Sent you an e-mail. Hope you get it.

RDRKO

Rachel 10-4-2003 2:09

Anybody willing to share advice on how to get back on a writing schedule for a new stay-at-home mom with a five month old...who NEVER sleeps during the day? Help. : )

ND 10-4-2003 0:10

TEEKAY -- Ayup. Do one thing and do it well. My wife likes to point out that she can go to the bathroom and talk on the phone at the same time. When I want to signal that I'm headed to the loo, I'll say, "Hold my calls."

Mark 10-3-2003 22:23

MARK: Ayup, makes sense to me.

So does the theory that maybe men lack the mental prowess to be able to decorate their words with a little extra padding.
Studies show that men, unlike women are unable to accomlish more that 2 (or is it 1 and I'm just being generous?) feat/s at a time, so in order for a man to stand, and talk at the same time, they must focus their concentration and reserve energy for the main task - breathing.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, oh, I think I'm soooo funny!

Teekay 10-3-2003 19:47

Hi All :-)

HOWARD: You wrote: . He was satisfied with the death of His Son as the final sacrifice,

This is the type of stuff I can't get my head around. To me, Jesus came to earth as a Great messenger of God's word and existence. Try as I might I can't accept that God has such a need that requires the sacrifice of his son.
I believe that what jesus went through was pre-ordained (as are each of our lives) in order for the word of God to spread, but that God should require such a sacrifice sets God to a standard rather like humans.
Jesus knew before he came to earth what would befall him, thanks to the ignorance and free will of humans.

It is what man requires that he then places upon God's head.

For instance, in the New Testament Jesus states that God cares nothing for sacrifices, but in the Old Testament (written through God's inspiration) they were sacrificing animals left, right and centre, because that's what they perceived God to require.

RHODA: I'm not of the intent to offend your beliefs, nor deny them.
I think maybe a lot of the misunderstanding comes from the human desire to put labels on things and make them fit into a package so we can understand within the bounds of our limited perceptions.
Faith just about covers it. :-)

I never tire of talking about this stuff. I find it wonderful and fascinating. My object is not to disagree for the sake of disagreeing, nor to agree so as to not upset someone who somehow feels God might need their protection. I just love contemplating God and Jesus and the universe and dimensions that we are usually oblivious to.

RACHEL: Your cultural policy class sounds a lot like our parliament :-)

HOWARD & JERRY: Very funny, loved it :-D

And love you all.

Going.....


Teekay 10-3-2003 19:37

This just came in from a friend on the left coast -- I thought it appropriate to the earlier male/female discussion...

Because I'm a man,
when I lock my keys in the car I will fiddle with a wire long after
hypothermia has set in.
-----------------------------------------------
Because I'm a man,
when the car isn't running very well, I will pop the hood and stare at
the engine as if I know what I'm looking at. If another man shows up,
one of us will say to the other, "I used to be able to fix these things,
but now with all these things the government made them put on them, I am
afraid I would be arrested for tampering." We will then drink a beer.
-----------------------------------------------
Because I'm a man,
when I catch a cold, I need someone to bring me soup and take care of me
while I lie in bed and moan.
You're a woman. You never get as sick as I do, so for you this isn't a
problem.
-----------------------------------------------
Because I'm a man,
I can be relied upon to purchase basic groceries at the store, like
steaks, sausage, charcoal, beer, or even milk & bread.
I cannot be expected to find exotic items like "cumin" or "tofu."
For all I know, these are the same thing. And never, under any
circumstances, expect me to pick up anything for which "feminine
product" is a euphemism.
-----------------------------------------------
Because I'm a man,
when one of our appliances stops working, I will insist on taking it
apart, despite evidence that this will just cost me twice as, much
once the repair person gets here and has to put it back together.
-------------------------------------------------------
Because I'm a man,
I must hold the television remote control in my hand while I watch TV.
If the thing has been misplaced, I may miss a whole show looking for it
(though one time I was able to survive by holding a calculator).
-----------------------------------------------
Because I'm a man,
I don't think we're all that lost, and no, I don't think we should stop
and ask someone.
Why would you listen to a complete stranger?
I mean, how could they know where we're going?
-----------------------------------------------
Because I'm a man,
there is no need to ask me what I'm thinking about.
The answer is always football, cars, beer, or women.
I have to make up something else when you ask, so don't ask.
-----------------------------------------------
Because I'm a man,
I do not want to visit your mother, or have your mother come visit us.
Whatever you got her for Mother's Day is okay; I don't need to see it.
And don't forget to pick up something for my mother, too.
-----------------------------------------------
Because I'm a man,
you don't have to ask me if I liked the movie. Chances are,
if you're crying at the end of it, I didn't.
-----------------------------------------------
Because I'm a man,
I think what you're wearing is fine. I thought what you were wearing five
minutes ago was fine, too. Either pair of shoes is fine. With the belt or
without it---looks fine. Your hair is fine. You look fine.
Can we just go now?
-----------------------------------------------
Because I'm a man,
and this is, after all, the year 2003, I will share equally in the
housework.
You just do the laundry, the cooking, the gardening, the cleaning, the
vacuuming, and the dishes, and I'll do the rest.
----------------------------------------------
This has been a public service message for Women to better understand
the Male.

howard 10-3-2003 17:11

Welcome back, CYNTHIA!

PAMELA -- Ok, try again -- in the context in which this appears, according to the (Jewish) Law, they were supposed to pray at certain times. The Pharisees He was using as an example did just that, but made sure they were in places where they could impress the people around them, rather than simply obeying God. Jesus told his disciples they were not to imitate that, but that genuine prayer was done privately, as a conversation with God, not to show off to the neighbors.

Also -- a part of that context was the time (dispensation) they were in. They were still under the Law, which demanded many things of the Jews -- things that we later find were impossible to keep in their entirety. We find that the Law was intended as a tutor -- to lead us to a higher Law. The people could not approach a holy God directly, but could do so only through the High Priest, and then only one day of the year, the day of atonement. On that day the High Priest could enter the "Holy of Holies" -- that place that signified God's presence -- to bring an atonement for the sins of the people. This holy place was set apart from the rest of the temple by a veil -- a heavy tapestry that covered the entrance.
On the day of the crucifixion that veil was torn in two, symbolically opening the way for anyone to enter into the presence of God. And the tearing was from the top to the bottom -- showing that it was God Himself who did away with it. He was satisfied with the death of His Son as the final sacrifice, and His acceptance opened the way to any who will come by way of the Son.
Thus began the dispensation (age) of Grace, where anyone can pray, anywhere they wish, and as long as it is done humbly and in the name of Jesus, it is acceptable to God.
We're still warned (by Peter, Paul, Jude, etc) that there will be those who carry the Word in error, and use it for monetary gain. And we're still admonished to make sure our prayer is done in a way acceptable to God.

There's more, but that's all I gan get into this nutshell.



howard 10-3-2003 17:06

Cynthia,

You would be surprised how often that happens. When Rhoda and I post on or around the same days it seems to confuse people. I suppose there aren't really that many 'R' names out there ;o) I know you said Rhonda, but I bet it was a Rhoda/Rachel sort of mix up. Sooo, what I'm saying is -- no problem. You know, I don't remember you from before. Maybe you were here while I was off on one of my writing sprees, or lost in school moments. Maybe I just have a rotten memory ;o) Either way, welcome back :o)

RDRKO

Rachel 10-3-2003 17:04

Rachel -- I'm sorry! I don't know why I did that! Reading too many posts I guess, or maybe the gremlins are messing around in my computer again. I hate it when that happens! :D

Cynthia L. 10-3-2003 16:39

Cynthia,

I will go and have another read. Ah, and my name is Rachel :o)

RDRKO

Rachel 10-3-2003 16:22

Hello to all! I haven't been in here in quite a while so you may not remember me. I had been writing a lot of poetry but now I'm attempting to try out short stories. I hope I can do well. I suppose we'll see. I have posted one in the Workbook and I'd appreciate anyone and everyone having a look and letting me know what you think. I would also appreciate your critique. Thanks all--

Rhonda -- Please read my post again (Mandy & The Snowman), I've added to it and would like to know what you think of the additions. I still plan on having someone read it aloud to me as you mentioned, but right now I'm alone except for my dogs and they just aren't interested! lol. Thanks for your advice. I still need any that you might be able to give. Let me know!

Cynthia L. 10-3-2003 16:03

Mark,

I noticed my female writing again :o) I am so, this it is so that. I think that is soooooo funny!

RDRKO

Rachel 10-3-2003 11:23

Hi all,

I have news :o) We tried Sebastian without a diaper last night. He hasn't worn diapers in the day time for a number of months, yet we have continued with night time diapers. We tried to go for diaperless night about a month ago. That effort didn't work out so well... Last night we tried again and, it worked! Yeah, yeah, yeah (singing voice)! Sebastian is growing up so fast. This (diapers) is one of those things I don't mind seeing go the way of the distant memory. I've never been fond of wet diapers. There are some moms who love every wet bit of mess that comes out of their child. I'm not one of those moms. I didn't hate it, but I didn't celebrate every ounce of excrement to drop out of my child. Those kind of mothers freak me out (grins and laughter). You guys know the kind. You hear them in the mall "Ohhhhh! Did little Bibby to a Bopie in his diapie for Mommy?" Said in a delighted tone, as if the child has presented his/her mother with a prize rose.

Jerry,

Loved the post. My husband and I enjoyed a good laugh. Thanks.

RDRKO

Rachel 10-3-2003 11:22

A bit of email that awaited my return from the VA today:

Home Remedies

1. If you are choking on an ice cube, don't panic. Simply pour a cup of boiling water down your throat and presto! The blockage will be almost instantly removed.

2. Clumsy? Avoid cutting yourself while slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them while you chop away.

3. Avoid arguments with the missus about lifting the toilet seat by simply peeing in the sink.

4. High blood pressure sufferers: simply cut yourself and bleed for a while, thus reducing the pressure in your veins.

5. A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock, will prevent you from rolling over and going back to sleep when you hit
the snooze button.

6. If you have a bad cough, take a large dose of laxatives, then you will be afraid to cough.

7. Have a bad tooth ache? Hit your thumb with a hammer, then you will forget about the tooth ache.

Sometimes we Just Need to Remember What The Rules of Life Really Are...

You need only two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the duct tape.

The five most essential words for a healthy, vital relationship are "I apologize" and "You are right."

Everyone seems normal until you get to know them.

Never pass up an opportunity to potty.

If You Woke up Breathing, Congratulations! You have another chance!

And Finally...

Be Really Good To Your Family and Friends. You never know when you are going to need them to empty your bedpan!







Jerry Ericsson 10-2-2003 23:43

Yes, there is a God -- His name is Jesus.

howard 10-2-2003 23:03


I am so, so, very, very, very sorry I stepped into this trap. After all these years I should know better. I have simply tried to explain my belief, and it has no explanation. There is no point in repeating what I have tried to articulate many times over. It all has its basis in faith, and I have not the skills to make anyone else understand it. That was the whole point of the last post. It is faith, for I have no proof, but being the poor writer that I am I obviously lack the skills to articulate what I mean.

I give up. I will leave all the theological discussions to HOWARD.

Rhoda 10-2-2003 22:58

Mark,

I do not like the words "so, just" I have made an effort to wipe them from my common speak. I find that the word 'just' is a nasty minimizer. The word 'so' (just) picks me (grins and laughter)! I think that I have fem, fem language, I don't doubt it for a second. What I've noticed is that I've taken away 'just' and have moved towards 'however' I don't know that I like either option. After reading your post, I looked back to check over my last post. I got a grin for my efforts :o)

This is good info to have. Heather, I think it was, mentioned that it is important to have this sort of info when the time comes to write from the male persepctive. Thanks for sharin the info.

As for what Multiculturalism is, I need a rest from that. In the Cultural Policy class I'm taking it is a big part of what we talk about. It comes up in ever class, and each time it comes up a debate breaks out, then it is present, rebut, present, rebut, deteriorate to chipmunk like yipping, gain some for of order, on and on. I'll let somebody else pick up the torch on that one.

Hum, I bet this post is full of spelling errors. Please skip over them, okay? I'm dead beat tired and don't want to copy/paste/spell check/copy/paste/delete previous, etc. etc. etc. 'Just' try to grin and put up with the muck and stuff ;o)

Nite you.

RDRKO

Rachel 10-2-2003 22:49

HEATHER -- Glad to see you back. The pee-pee dance? I could have guessed. I've never seen you live or in person, but all along I've known you'd be good with body language.

TEEKAY -- knitting? Isn't that done with the brows?

RHODA -- Yes, there is a God. No, you do not know his name.

PAMELA -- Yes, many openly gay men use womanspeak.

On the topic of womanspeak: I have read a broad (er, wide) range of material on the psychology of language. One of the most convincing areas deals with the notion that we learn to think based on the language we speak. Within that area came a deluge of papers on the topic of gender-preference language. We came to see that in this society, male-preference was the rule.

We kidded ourselves about how using the term "spokesman" was neutral and how "A student purchases *his* books" was neutral, but the fact is that we had neutral terms and did not use them. In this society we prefer males.

I'd have to do some research to find them now, but a team from varied departments and several campuses in California wrote a knockout paper about women's nicknames. Almost every term of reference for a woman was also a name of something consumable or disposable: Honey, Sugar, Muffin, Pie, flower. The only flower name you hang on a man is an insult: Pansy.

As a companion to this line of interest, and perhaps as backlash to it, came the research which said that gender-thought determined the language, not the other way around. 'Womanspeak' defined the class of spoken language found only in the speech of women. All those "little qualifiers" (as RHODA put it) serve to de-emphasize the main point in any context. For example, consider a politician announcing a new multi-million dollar project: our governor (male) -- "I am happy to be here today . . .." A former mayor (female) -- "I am so very, very, very happy to announce . . .."

Students of womanspeak seemed to agree that all those qualifiers were part of a woman's public stance as knowledgable but not pushy. It's OK for a man to be in-yer-face happy, but not for a woman. So it is with most other attitudes. Everything which could look like a woman placing herself forward in the public eye had to be qualified, thus all those little qualifiers. On a practical level, all the extra verbage weakens a sentence. The speaker tries to make a strong statement weakly.

Also agreed was the perception of womanspeak as publicspeak first, mixed-group speak second, and girl-gab last.

I don't believe these two things developed independently. I think English-speaking women learned from the beginning and from their language that males were preferred. Womanspeak developed as a way for bright women to express themselves without publicly breaking the social norm.

Mark 10-2-2003 22:10

Ah, sorry, just one more time.

RHODA: You wrote: but I have experienced the power of the Bible in my life

Maybe it was the power of God you were exeriencing.



Teekay 10-2-2003 19:40

RHODA: I read somewhere not long ago how there were countless cures of people who went to Lourdes, but only very very few of them have actually past the strict guidelines set by whatever council determines them to be miracles or just plain old everyday cures.

A cure is a cure is a cure. Life in itself is a beautiful miracle.
Science is not yet at the stage to determine that miracles are simply the workings of things they have not yet learned to consider, let alone understand.

Love you. :-)

Teekay 10-2-2003 19:37

MARK: How did you know I was going to say knitting? :-D

About God: Did God's teachings end with the bible?
Have there not been many more messages from God through numerous sources since then?
Or did he stop communicating with us 2000 years ago?

Is God vengeful, spiteful, or petty. Would he truly give free will only to snatch it back?
I think great wisdom is found in the bible, and also the Koran, and numerous other holy writings, but I also feel each contains a good dose of the uninspired works of man, perhaps their purpose being control of the masses (What else?).
Seems to me in certain parts of the bible that man has created God in his own image with all accompanying foibles.

HEATHER: HAHAHHAHAHAHAH Ah yes, the 'pee-pee dance' :-D

More about multi -culturalism and religion:

Seems to me that at out present level of thought, where families can be intolerant within themselves it's going to take a major mind overhaul to get to the stage where the entire population can be accepting and respectful of each other.
I think the root of all this is religion. We (I'm talking humans) have isolated ourselves from each other by our beliefs in God, who he is, what he wants, who had him first.
We took God and put him in a box and sticky taped it up and that's where he's staying and that's all there is to it.

Going....






Teekay 10-2-2003 19:25

PAMELA,

Not so. Anyone can write things and say that they are inspired by God. These texts you speak of were examined in light of other scriptures and studied by experts from all Christian traditions of the day. Some books were rejected because they were either questionable and did not rise to the standard set by the councils that examined them. The Catholic Bible has books the Protestant Bible does not have, but there is no book in the Catholic bible that is considered fradulent by Protestants. The books such as The Macabbees and Judith and whatever others are considered to be historically accurate, but because these books were not considered Cannon by the Jews, the Protestants did not put them on the same level as the other books of the Old Testament.

All I was trying to say was that if God has things to say to his people and his church, he will make sure that the message is preserved. These other texts have been examined and rejected. I have to think that the people reviewing them were men and women filled with the Holy Spirit (a concept entirely meaningless to non-Christians). Early Christian fathers like the Jewish leaders and scholars who studied the Old Testament scriptures were very careful to preserve texts they knew to be sacred. They took their task very seriously. Perhaps a few bad apples got into the process over time, but I have no doubt God dealt with them.

You might think all of that simplistic, and perhaps it is, but I have experienced the power of the Bible in my life, and I believe that it is God's inspired word, and I accept what it says. I accept it on the basis of faith, and that faith is not completely blind. It has grounded me and has explained much about the human condition that I see that other religions cannot begin to explain.

Rhoda 10-2-2003 18:54

Then it would also follow that God meant for the apocryphal texts to be found and that the writings in them should be accepted as well.

pamela 10-2-2003 16:09

PAMELA,

If someone can accept that the Bible was written by God's inspiration, and that every word of it was put there by God's decree, then I think one can just as easily believe that the God who wrote that book over a couple thousand of years could be trusted to see that it was properly compiled and transmitted onto the present time.

Rhoda 10-2-2003 12:10


Heather, welcome back from Lurkland, good to see ya!

Howard, it is interesting that you say when a Bible verse is "understood in its context"---understood by whom? I re-read Matthew 6:6 and, sorry, but it still seemed to me that he was telling everyone to pray in secret. He did say not to imitate the hypocrites who pray where others can see them, or to babble as the gentiles do, "But when you pray, go to your private room, shut yourself in, and so pray to your Father who is in that secret place, and your Father who sees all that is done in secret will reward you." Sounds pretty straightforward to me. Surely you agree that the words in the bible can have many interpretations, and who is to say which is the right one or not? When Jesus said that he without sin should cast the first stone, he didn't mean (in my opinion) that we should not judge only prostitutes, although that was the occasion (or was it an adulteress?), but that we should not judge anyone. I watched an interesting show on Discovery last night about the apocryphal writings, those that did not make it into the bible but have been discovered since. I think it needs to be recognized that the bible was compiled by MEN, not by God or Jesus, and, just as the Nicean council declared that the Holy Trinity were all equal to end conflicts about it, the resulting work could very well be influenced by politics. Where are the missing years of Jesus? Perhaps edited out because he went to India and discovered reincarnation, not favored by politicians who preferred to keep the masses under their thumb with threats of everlasting damnation? I can see you putting your faith in God and Jesus, but not common politicians with hidden agendas (some things never change).

Mark, some of us are too old to worry about missing periods anymore, a definite plus to ageing from the woman's point of view :). Do you think gay men would use "so" too much too?

Multiculturalism is definitely a two-edged sword. The Civil Rights Act: good. Reverse discrimination: bad. Since our whole world is multicultural, it's too bad we can't all just live in peace and harmony as human beings, but that doesn't seem to be possible on this planet. Some of us tried to get the world to see things that way back in the sixties, but then they started shooting college kids.



pamela 10-2-2003 11:25

Look at that: lurking no longer!
You have pulled me back into the loop, friends! Just by being here.



((((((THANK YOU)))))

Heather 10-2-2003 1:20

Teek - well said..... we ARE all souls dressed up in human clothing. However, our human clothing (and the culture, like the closet it was found in) sometimes decides for us where we fit best. Where we're most comfortable. I felt at a complete loss this summer, when passing through Quebec; I couldn't remember how to say what I needed to say in french. I was surrounded by those speaking french fluently, and felt quite the 'stranger in a strange town'. I was surprised at how uncomfortable I felt; and how grateful when my friend rescued me with the appropriate translations. And french is Canada's second language. If it were Spanish or German I had needed to speak, I'd have been no more lost than if all the maps on earth spontaneously combusted.
Good thing for the universal language of 'the pee-pee dance'.
MWAAAAA HAHAHA HA HAHAAAAAAAAA

Heather 10-2-2003 1:19

Mark - you have pointed out that women also use the word 'just' in sentences much more than men do... 'so' qualifies for the same category? Interesting!
I would not have noticed except that you pointed this out. I do use that nasty little qualifier 'so' often when I chat on ICQ/MSN, or in emails.

One of the things I enjoy is writing from a very different point of view; sometimes I choose to write as if I were a man... with what you have pointed out, I'm going to re-read two of my short stories written from a man's pov and check to see if I've bundled my paragraphs with superfluous qualifiers such as 'so' and 'just'.
Do any others come to mind, Mark? If I'm more aware of said usage, my stories in the masculine pov might be a few degrees more convincing... though in my mind they were already quite comfortably so. OOPS! There's that nasty 'so' and 'so'...

I suppose the frequency of my elipse usage is also another indicator that I'm female? LOL


Heather 10-2-2003 1:09

Do I get to be fourth lurker of the week? :o)

Heather 10-2-2003 1:02

A multicultural society is fine, if it occurs naturally, and doesn't keep flaring into violence. What irks me is the forced inclusion of, or favoritism for, one specific group or class of people in the name of "fair play."

I'll post the essay I wrote on the subject (Diversity) on my page at http://home.stny.rr.com/htuckey/



howard 10-1-2003 23:59

What does being female have to do with writing wordy sentences loaded with those messy, nasty, little qualifiers?

Rhoda 10-1-2003 23:03

MARK,

I am so, so very proud that you showcased some of my postings.

Rhoda 10-1-2003 22:57

It is so great to connect with other writers
I feel so decadent
I'm so proud of you
it looks so great
I'm so pleased

Each of the above lines was written by a woman. Can you tell what gives it away? (Disregard the fact that each is missing a period).

MULTICULTURALISM --- What the hell is that?

I have two good hands, and you know what I like to use 'em for (well, Yes, Teekay, but I did have the keyboard in mind.) So, on the one hand we have images of Multiculturalism as a kind of respect for the individual. We learn that people from foreign places smell funny and eat gross foods for good reason. Got Chinese students renting the upstairs apartment? Hey, they'll learn soon enough that all the grease from wok cooking doesn't soak into the linoleum like it does in the old home dirt floor. Give 'em a break. They'll learn as they go along. In this place the key idea is Live and Let Live.

On the other hand (that's two now) , we have Multiculturalism as a kind of melting pot, a generic culture made from the blend of many inputs. Multicultural societies have fringes of racial or ethnic enclaves, but at the core is a blended group which includes all the fringe elements. You could go to a public event in a Multicultural Society and find a mixed bag of racial elements all speaking approximately the same language and esteeming the same values.

Which one are we talking about?

More later,

Mark 10-1-2003 22:11

I am looking for writers to submit to this ebook I'm doing. here's the link for more info:

http://www.americantypewriter.org/stories/

Mike Stories From An American Typewriter 10-1-2003 19:44

Hi All;
Hmmm, can there ever be a united multi-cultural society, or is the very term itself an oxymoron?
I'm not talking skin colour or race here, I'm talking the fundamental cultural beliefs and practises that divide people from each other.
Sounding predjudice? Well I'm not. My take is that we're all souls dressed in human clothing.


PAMELA: Keep opening those worms up. Sometimes worms just don't get the attention they should. :-)

Be well all.
My sister and her family are up for a visit and it's wonderful!



Teekay 10-1-2003 19:27

For LOTR fan(atics) -- there's a frame-by-frame description (with conjecture) of the ROTK trailer at http://www.theonering.net/movie/preview/rotk_trailer01_01.html

if that doesn't work, the tinyurl is
http://tinyurl.com/pchq

There are spoilers there, so proceed at your own risk. The spoilers should not be much of a surprise to anyone who has read the trilogy once or twice -- or more... :-)


howard 10-1-2003 14:27

Pamela,

Multiculturalism is very real in Canada. In 1969 (I think it was). Shortly after that multiculturalism came into being (1971 - approx) and with it came the governments support and "good intentions" which changed to suit their needs at times and places. Now I look at my nation and sigh. It seems that everyone is allowed to have an identity, except those of us who are descended from those who came to this nation in the first place. We are damned for having come and for treating the aboriginal people in the way that we did (as if the others would have done it any differentyly, I've peeped at how their take overs went and it wasn't very pretty). It seems that the laws and P.C. ways of the present are being used to beat up the past. It is wrong. The history of Canada, or what little history we have is a strange and distorted thing. We shame ourselves left and right while singing songs of praise to every minority group that has entered the nation. We point to the accomplishments of these new Candadians, that had to be accomplished in the face of the wicked and oppresive "dominent culture and it's religions"

I don't like what I see. It is just prejudice dressed up in a suit. I think that a lot of the things that are supposed to be multi cultural, smack of prejudice and seperatism. There are of course as many who would argue against what I say. They would tell you the other side of the story. The debate has been going on for decades and will continue to do so. Only history will tell the tale, and even that will be the tale that is decided by the powers that be. I think that written history is pretty much a myth as well. I learned that in school...

RDRKO

Rachel 10-1-2003 10:29

PAMELA -- When Matthew 6:6 is understood in its context, it's plain that Jesus was not referring to the act of prayer alone, but to the pharisees' practice of praying in public only to show how pious they were -- only to impress those within earshot. He was rebuking the showoff, not forbidding the humble from gathering together. He then goes on to give the model for effective prayer. We commonly call it "The Lord's Prayer." For me, though, the real "Lord's Prayer" is in John 17, where He prays for all those who believe in Him.

Later in the NT, the author of the letter to the Hebrews instructed them (and, by application, all believers) to not forsake the assembling together of the church for worship and prayer. There's no contradiction at all.

It's like the widow -- she could bring only a penny to the offering, while the rich men showed off to the crowd in their "generous" giving. They could well afford it -- she could not -- and Jesus said that in effect, she had given much more than these. He did not mean that from then on everyone should only bring a penny. He was pointing out the fact that giving should be done from the heart, out of devotion -- not simply to obey some law.

howard 10-1-2003 10:22

Lurkin'.

Just got off work. Been working on the rewrite of an old story, changed the title and thereby changed the whole story. It reads much better now.

Been trying to quit smoking for the last four or five days. It's not for any health reasons or anything like that, it's just that they keep raising the prices. Up to $8.00 and more a pack up here. That seems a little steep, and considering I always said I'd quit when it hit five bucks a pack, and then when I hit 40 years of age...wellll, I guess it's time. But at least I can walk into the boomshack at work and not worry about breathing in clean air. Everyobe else there still smokes, and it's like walking into a cheap bar in the East end of Vancouver. If I can't smoke, then let me have second hand smoke for a while until I ween myself off of it. Hell, I've had to give up all my other vices--of which there were plenty. I may even have to quit drinking for a while until I get past the gonna-have-a-drink-gimme-a-smoke stage. Well, it's only been since last Friday, so I'm not gonna jump up and down saying I quit! I quit! Hell, right now I wanna jump up and down screaming out Someone gimme a smoke!

Blow all the second hand smoke over this way, 'coz the air's too fresh!

ben 10-1-2003 5:07

~Pamela~

Rhoda, thanks for the feedback on my feedback to Taylor. I like thrillers, but lately they have been getting really gross with lurid details of horrible things done to the victims while they are still alive. Yuck! I usually skim over them, the perusial (new word) equivalent of covering my eyes in a movie; I prefer seeing how they track down the killer, forensics are pretty interesting these days. I did decide not to have my bad guy seek kiddies to kill, I agree with Randall that it's kind of like killing unicorns. And I agree with you that we have to consider the emotions of the reader, I'm still debating over a little thing to do at the ending that could leave the reader feeling rather disturbed. In fact, it disturbs me, which makes me think I should do it, perhaps breaking out of the formula/box that Rachel speaks of?

Pedro, isn't love everywhere and nowhere? It is one of the intangible realities, you know, we can't see it or weigh it or measure it, yet it still exists, or does it? We feel it, we know when we have it or don't, when we give it or not, yet some may love us whom we don't even know, as we may love others we have never met. Like smoke it winds and curls among us, ethereal, wispy, here and then gone... and then back again...

Jerry, I LOVE getting old! Soon I'll get to find out the Great Mystery Of Life, which, ironically enough, we only find out when we die (which word I don't like because of the negative connotations attached to it, I think "leave" is actually more accurate). I've been curious about it since I was a child and look forward to finding out. I think of death as taking a great trip, entering a new (or old) world, like going to another planet. Except I think the new planet we came to is here.

Sasquatch, I can see where excessive hirsutism could cause confusion in certain circumstances. Does this ever result in fights? Or unusual partnerships? Sometimes I wish I had a nice coat of fur in the wintertime, perhaps I did long ago.

Rachel, I read your ode and want to read it again before commenting (I liked it, though). Is "Multiculturism" something that is going on in Canada, like some government bull-grupp? I'm all for mixing cultures in general, like on the street where I live. I kind of integrated it when I moved in, my black next-door-neighbors have middle-eastern in-laws (I presume) who come to visit, there are orientals in the apartments across the street and some recent arrivals from Africa. Now, though, there are new houses at the end of the block and white people jogging in the neighborhood and, while it's good for property values that this transitional area is on the upswing, I worry that the whites will ruin the cultural diversity. Well, since white women get abortions and blacks don't, we'll soon be in the minority anyway, good thing I get along with blacks so well (I was frequently called an "N-lover" when I was a kid). Oops, was that another can of wiggly creatures I just opened?

Howard, hmmm, hypocrites praying in public to impress others? Surely none of that is going on today :^. How do you know that Jesus didn't mean that all prayer should be done in private, not just that of those he was using as an example? If there is an inconsistency between what Jesus said and what someone else said, why would you choose to agree with the latter? (Sound of more cans being opened)

Love is something to go with peas,

pamela 10-1-2003 1:40

Jerry,

He, he, he, Ho, ho, ho :o) I liked that. Know what? My son made a study of Eric the Red. I had to draw for that one... Hum, let us not go into that (grins and laughter).

Howard,

I think I owe you a face wash! Better look out mister. I'm a wicked fiend on the snowball ground (Bwah, ha, ha, ha, ha) Ass kickin' gleam in my eyes. Hum, only trouble is that we get about half a cm of snow here a year! Kinda hard to make anything out of that, well, other than a mess.

Hey to the lurkers, one and all.

Ciao for now.

RDRKO

Rachel 10-1-2003 1:28

It happened hundreds of years ago, way back when my distant ancestor Leif Ericsson was running his ship up and down the East Coast of these United States. Leif and his cousin Rudolph, who had very unusual red hair and beard was a powerful man, who never traveled without his devoted wife Helga.

One day when the travelers had established their winter camp in Vinland, near what is now New Jersey, Rudolph and Helga were walking to their home and it began to rain, then turned to snow.

"Look Honey, it's snowing!" said Helga.

"Nonsense, that's rain!" declared her spouse.

"But Rudolph, it's decently snow, I've seen snow every year of my life, I surely know what snow is!"

"Look, I am the MAN, what I say goes" declared the angry spouse, "and besides, everyone knows Rudolph the Red knows rain dear!"

Jerry 10-1-2003 0:30

Three, THREE lurkers, mwah ah ah!

Christi 9-30-2003 23:54

Randall

Ditto...Carol. Two lurkers.

Randall

Randall 9-30-2003 20:50

Lurking .........

Carol 9-30-2003 17:19

Pedro,

Love the word 'circuity' It really gives a nice end to the poetic prose after the poem you offer. I enjoyed both offerings. Thank you for turning them out on the page.

RDRKO

Rachel 9-30-2003 16:06

what has a kid to offer
in this grown up world of ours
spouting off in undercurrents
shooting stars and shooting stars
let the old man off the hook
imagine skin all clean and bare
and at times ive often wondered
just what must be to make 'em care

do you know what love is? please a clue is all i ask, there were people sitting on tree branches there and nothing ever got stuck in their hair! im a man but whats a man and whats a nothing know it all? whos the answer whos the question and nothing remains from which to compare...where is it going, don't read this, go make some coffee, slam the door...god is watching, oh yes he must have telescope eyes or is he, are we connected? outside it all is where it is and underneath the greatest beauty is a tiny hole of nothing and a master of circuity...

pedro--for those with a little time

pedro 9-29-2003 22:14

Oh, and on tonight's JEOPARDY! one of the contestants' claim to fame was that she's read the LOTR trilogy nine times. Big deal! I've read it 12 times, and will probably read it again just to get primed for the release of ROTK on December 18.
My wife just rolls her eyes when I mention it. I finally got her to sit through FOTR, but she didn't like it. Oh well.

howard 9-29-2003 21:37

BTW -- by "large" I meant 26.9mb! Took a few minutes on a cable modem, but it was worth it!

They've also got some special theatre dates set up prior to the release in December. There's a week with the extended version of FOTR, then a week with the extended version of TTT, then a day or two with ALL THREE MOVIES in one massive chunk.
Lessee -- I'll need coffee, munchies, and a catheter...


Did I say that?

:-)



howard 9-29-2003 21:33

Ummmm,,, SASKY? -- Grepp? I thought it was Grupp. grep is a unix command. Maybe it's kind of like the same thing...

LOTR Fans -- the official ROTK trailer is now available in Quicktime format at http://www.lordoftherings.net/index_rotk_trailer.html

It's large...

A friend just sent me this -- it's cute:

It was very windy, and she was only six years old and small
for her age. When her mother asked her to clean off the front
sidewalk, the wind nearly blew her away.
She picked up the broom countless times, but each time the
wind got the best of her and knocked her over.
Her mother came out a few minutes later to see how she was
doing and found her stuffing rocks in her pocket.
"I thought you were cleaning off the sidewalk," her mother said.
"What in the world are you doing?"
The child replied: "Now? I weigh me down to sweep."


howard 9-29-2003 21:22

hello pamela person yes i sasquatch can feel the cold coming but it is a welcome feeling for Yeti as we have much warm hair covering to keep from getting too cold. as a matter of fact we YETI sometimes have so much hair that we cannot tell he Yeti from she Yeti and this causes much confusion at some times. also we are careful not to step in grepp as it is sticking between our toes. i must go.

sasquatch 9-29-2003 15:31

Well we're off on another journey south in the morning. The wife has to have another of those injections in her knee. It's some strange stuff, almost like voodoo or something. The stuff is made from the comb of a chicken, it looks a lot like rendered chicken fat, kind of yellow and thick goopy. At any rate she needs three of the stupid shots once a week for three weeks so we will be making the four hundred mile round trip for the next two Mondays, with my trip to the VA on Thursday. By the time we're done with this stuff, I should be able to make the trip in my sleep. Who knows, I may have to.

Last week I was so tired the wife drove nearly all the way there, I did the driving till the sun came up, then she took over and drove till we were near the City. She doesn't like driving in the City. Only problem with that is that we need to take her car if she is to drive since she has never learned how to operate a manual transmission, and that's what's in my old truck. I'm way more comfortable in the truck, her little Buick Skylark is just a bit cramped for my old and aching body. Guess we'll decide on which to drive in the morning depending on how much sleep I get tonight. Haven't slept well now for over a month, and my days have been foggy to say the least, with cat naps becoming the norm.

God I hate getting OLD!



Jerry 9-28-2003 23:35

Thanks for the words of encouragment.

I am just so sick and tired the politics thing I sort of long for that nut who ran several years ago, Perot, maybe we made a big mistake way back when I always liked Perot till he went off the deep end.



Jerry 9-28-2003 21:53

Looks like part of the Notebook disappeared while I was gone down to the Cannel Islands for some diving. Will look into it tomorrow and see what is up. Take care everyone. Had an interesting time, despite some wind from the Mexican hurricane, and got several great dives, including one in which 7 to 10 sea lions decided to dance around us and come right up nose to nose with our mask. Only bummer side was that I partially flooded my video camera. We will see how bad. Take care everyone.



Jack Beslanwitch Northwest Dive Videos 9-28-2003 20:37

PESTER -- How do you know that He didn't provide for the widow? There are plenty of examples in both the OT and the NT where He takes care of those who cannot do so for themselves.

PAMELA -- You may be thinking about the passage where Jesus decries the hypocrites' praying aloud in public just so the "common" people around them would be impressed. He said that true prayer was done in secret -- in one's closet -- in an attitude of worship rather than a display of showy religiosity. Later in the NT, Paul says that we should gather together to worship. There's a difference.

RANDALL -- There are indeed spiritual rewards here on earth, but we're admonished to "lay up treasures in heaven" as well.

howard 9-28-2003 20:00

RANDALL,

I liked the movie, THE PATRIOT, but I haven't been able to see it again even though I bought the DVD. I just cannot bear the thought of watching the boy get shot point blank and the church full of trapped villagers getting burned down.

Rhoda 9-28-2003 19:56

Randall

HEY!

Rhoda...I agree. I was appalled when a Unicorn was slain in HARRY POTTER AND THE SORCERERS STONE. Although this is one of my favorite movies, indeed my wife and I watched it last night ... the scene where a monster has slain and is drinking the blood of the Unicorn is greatly distressing....

In the Tom Cruise movie, LEGEND a Unicorn is slain, but later revived. Thats okay, I suppose. Of course there are hundreds of us who still regret that OLD YELLER had to be killed. Even horror movies like THE OMEN gave a lot of us pause when Gregory Peck was about to slay a young boy (demon)...on an alter of all things! Even though the child was said to be a demon it gives one pause. Couldn't GP just tattoo over the 666 emblem on Damien's head and take him to Mickey D's for a shake and fries?

And the worst of the worst would be in the classic western ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST where (GOOD GRIEF HANK!) Henry Fonda murdered in cold blood a young boy. Didn't Frankenstein murder a young girl in Mary Shelley's novel. And I believe Bram Stoker's DRACULA featured a sub plot where a female vampire attacked/killed a small girl?

Still real life is a lot worse There are probably more children dying on a daily basis throughout the world than any other species...

Anywaaaaaaaaaaaay... Back to the Cowboys and Jets.

Randall

Randall 9-28-2003 18:02

Hi Randall,

I liked your post. I once qualified for provincial loans. That was long ago. Now, I do not qualify because I am out of a double income home. That sucks. I don't see what that has to do with anything. It's not as if I am less likely to pay back the loan. I am more likely to pay back and to do so in under the required time. It's not as if I don't all ready have a job. Having said that, I don't think that I should never be able to wish for more, which is part of why I'm back in school. Dreams for the mature student are harder won. We can't just think of ourself. We can't run home to mum and dad for that bed, we need to provide beds for our own children. I don't think that I've got any more than a single person and in some ways I may even have less.

RDRKO

Rachel 9-28-2003 17:24

PAMELA,

One thing to consider in writing is also reader's emotions. You can present anything in a novel, but there are many ways to do it. A lot of it depends upon details you wish to bring out. If an author is not careful, he can sear the emotions of his audience. Most readers wish to be entertained. Some wish to be intellectually engaged as with a mystery or a Tom Clancy type book. Still other readers wish to be reassured that good prevails in the end and that true love really does conquer all. Then other readers look for some sort of shock value. A lot of that depends upon the genre. But very few readers want to be presented with horrible crimes against children and animals. Children and small animals are my individual taboo in writing or movies. I cannot bear to see children hurt or brutalized. Same thing with cats, dogs, and horses.

In writing you might sometimes have to present very unpleasant and heart rending circumstances, but you must do it in a way that does not horrify the reader so much, he or she simply puts down the book for good.

I once had to deal with rape in one of my books, and it was the hardest thing I ever had to do. I think I pulled it off the right way, but I had to rewrite several times, and through it all I agonized, because the character I was dealing with sickened me. But that character had to be that way for the story to be believable.

Rhoda 9-28-2003 14:27

Randall

Morning!!!

It's a beautiful day in central Texas!!! The countryside is green, cause we have had nearly 5" of rain this month!

Ah...Pester. The spiritual reward God promises is in Heaven, not on materialistic Earth. If the woman starves, or her children, or friends this is a worldly situation, not applicable to the greater reward awaiting them in Heaven for deeds in His name. Conversely, rich folks may feed many poor citizens, but this will not get either into Heaven unless they believe in God and prove that with deeds.

Rachel...the foremost problem we, as Americans, face today is the bias in news media reporting. A democrat rep, Jim Marshall, Georgia, recently returned from Iraq. Marshall said what he saw in Iraq was NOT what America's media were reporting. Yes, he said there are great strides being made in Iraq and yes Americans were being killed. But the gains in building the country are enormous. Why do major media outlets NOT report this other than a token glance? Because negative sells and ... George Bush stole the election! Most news rooms are liberal and while liberals preach "help your fellow man" they are aghast, appalled and incensed that we would invade a peaceful nation, Iraq. (500,000 tortured, dead Iraq citizens in unmarked mass grave ask ... why?) Positive aspects such as building schools, repairing infrastructure, roads, etc., are dull reporting and do not conform to liberal thinking that regardless, war and all war is bad. What interest is there in watching soldiers set up desks in a school versus zooming in on a pool of blood from a dead American soldier?! After all President Bush lied about WMD's!

This also reflects in present day culture. Have you heard of the Southern Methodist University "cookie sale" in Dallas? Several students of conservative bent offered homemade cookies for sale... a cookie for a white male student 1.00 ... a cookie for any female .75 ... a cookie for a Mexican ... .50 ... a cookie for a Negro .25. WELL NOW, this is racial discrimination and the SMU leadership ordered the sale stopped. But wait a minute the students protested... isn't this the same as affirmative action? Of course not the dean sputtered... This is racial discrimination! Against whom a confused Randall asks?

Rachel, other than furnishing my daughter a place to sleep (the home that is always hers) I contribute nothing to her education. Sara is a junior in collage, majoring in finance. (Wants to be a banker, I urge her on!) Because she applied herself in high school, read studied, paid attention and worked real hard, Sara qualified for a state loan, under the "Stafford Loan Program." When Sara graduates, then, she begins to repay the loan. It is in her name and will add to her already good credit rating. I chortle when I see investment ads stressing that adults MUST begin saving for their toddlers college education. If little Johnny would study in school, rather than jump rope and smoke dope, then his parents won't have to mortgage the home place and borrow up to the eyeballs. (There are other avenues.) This is the work for reward so many liberals fear. Why work when America owes the "less fortunate" a living ... so they can live illegally in America, (poor things) have free medical care, (its only fair) free drivers license (why not?) free food, (no one starves in America!) amass large families (back to free medical) and buy crack cocaine with YOUR tax dollar? (All the stress you know.) That's racial discrimination Randall!!!

Well, this was my rant, so I'll bug out.

AMF!

Randall

Ah, "Adios My Friends!"

Randall 9-28-2003 14:03

~Pamela~

Hey, guys, wow, a lot to catch up on! Rachel, hope your birthday was good, I will be 55 years young on Oct. 9 (I share a birthday with another writer, John Lennon). It's really getting to be time to work on my retirement plan (best-selling novel, of course).

About meeting someone you immediately like or dislike: I think it could have to do with reincarnation; you knew this person in another life and are carrying over feelings from then. Or, it could just be your BS Radar doing its thing. About people changing: I sure hope they do! None of us is the same person at 50 as we were at 20, I think life is a process of growing and changing all the time. I do think people can see the error of their ways and make an effort to change themselves, but that is probably pretty rare since we all rather have blinders on concerning ourselves (we know what we mean, even if others don't).

If letting people call us at home to try to sell us stuff is freedom of speech, whatever happened to the right to privacy?

I've been creative lately but, unfortunately, it has been with architectural design (hobby) rather than writing (retirement/helping others plan). Morpheus, however, has been visiting me too (thanks, guy!), and my novel stirs in my sleep like a slowly waking dragon.

Hello to Paul and Pedro, jump on in, the water's fine (but please sign your posts so we know who you are).

Pester, what a poignant poem, how old was that little boy, I hope he's okay.

Jerry, congrats on your first rejection, you're a "real" writer now!

Taylor, I wouldn't worry about offending anyone, especially the government, if you feel compelled to write about something. I would be careful, however, about giving bad guys bad ideas. For instance, in my current work-in-not-much-progress, I have a serial killer and I tried to think about what could be the most horrible, heinous, scary thing he could do. So many of them kill hookers or certain types of women, I wanted to do something different and so at first I was going to have him look for yards containing kid's toys and go in and kill the whole family. Then I thought about how awful I would feel if someone started to actually do that, and so now he just kills random people (with glass back doors to break into). There are so many weirdos in the world, I think we have some responsibility not to provoke them too much or give them ideas, but as far as offending people: go for it!

Howard, wasn't Jesus against organized religion? It's been a while since I read the whole Bible, but I seem to remember him saying something about NOT wanting large groups formed for worship and prayer, that it should be done in private.

Sasquatch, how are you doing? Is is starting to get cold where you are? Does your fur grow thicker in the winter? Hope you haven't stepped in any grupp-pies lately.

Peas and love to all,

pamela 9-28-2003 13:50

---Pester---

Howard. I always think when I hear that widows mite story that after Jesus had said his 'truly...' bit, he should've then at least gave the widow back a penny and said now go and feed your children or someone elses children.

Anyway how is everyone? Like the new font size, good call. And happy Birthday Rachel, you're only as old as the person you're with tells you you feel.

All is hunky diddlo with myself, I've been busy editing 'Untypical' plus putting together a music profile.

I saw this recently it was something I wrote when a child at the school where I work was put in a room on his own because he had become increasingly out of control in his class, I was one of the few people who would do the 'shift of watching him wqhile he was a t school. It was clear that he was 'ill' but the so called psychiatrist who saw him regularly wouldn't give him a diagnosis, so he lived in this limbo state untill eventualy they moved him to a place where they could give him 24-7.

Room 13.

Where is the love in this cold place, stretching out its’ fingers
hesitantly, expecting a bite, having been bitten and snapped before, pushed back by confusion and the murky depths of troubled emotions.
Where is his love, sleeping but not yet dead, and we sit by in helpless terror, watching a child disappear before our very eyes. The cold, bare walls and, echoing sounds have a dream like quality, real yet unreal. The silence, eerie in its’ intensity, calm yet disturbed with an undercurrent of turmoil.

See you soon, love Pester .

Pester Smemb 9-28-2003 12:10

Teekay,

Thanks for the birthday greeting. It's still fun for me (big, wide smiles). Today is actually the day the b-day is being celebrated, so, you are acting as if you were a part of my family! I'll watch the mail ;o) Pst, we are all always going through a phase (grin/wink).

RDRKO



Rachel 9-28-2003 11:25

Hi Rhoda,

It's good to hear from you. I can't believe that you and I are in agreement! That is very cool :o) Hum, I don't know how much my class will be in agreement with me. There are those who might think that my views, thoughts and feelings are downright unCanadian. I'm okay with that, am ready for that and don't care if they feel that way or not (okay, I care quite a bit, but it isn't going to change my approach). Maybe send up a little prayer for me on Wednesday ;o)

RDRKO.

Rachel 9-28-2003 11:20

Randall,

I like the quotes :o) I wasn't sure what people would think of my rant. I just needed to get it off my chest. I know so many people of minority cultures and listen to how deserving they are of the things that they get. I guess I'm just wondering how it is and why it is that I am less deserving of these things. I'm not angry that they get them and tell them to snap them up while they still can, because it is my opinion that that particular cash cow is going to dry up. Economics will make more equality than all this nice talk and high ideas. If there is no cash, then nobody can get it. I would rather see an elimination or the bringing down of our national debt than I would one more gesture of this or that. I am aware of the inequality that economics cause, but that isn't always based on race or ethnicity. In fact, with all the special treatement and education opportunities it may flip the tables. There seems to me to be a lot of opportunity for those of lower economic status and "marginalized peoples" to gain education. *sighs* I think I'm just pissed because I find it hard to afford university. I want to be able to provide a better future for my kids, so, I will work my ass off and cut back and tighten my belt and all those other trite little sayings. I think it is also time for me to be a little more pro-active. There are grants and bursaries out there. I must be eligable for something ;o) Man, if I'm not, then I really will be pissed (grins and laughter).


Howard,

I loved the essay. I worked a couple of phrases into a new stanza. I've made the notations needed to give credit where credit is due ;o) Thanks for sending that on.

Rachel 9-28-2003 11:06

Randall

Rachel...very good on the multiculturalism rant. In addition too ... I humbly submit the following quotes.

"We must not look to government to solve our problems. Government is the problem." --President Ronald Reagan

"Nothing is wrong with California that a rise in the ocean level wouldn't cure. " --Ross MacDonald

"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lied within us." --Oliver Wendell Holmes

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. " -- Albert Einstein

"It was impossible to get a conversation going, everybody was talking too much." Yogi Berra

Good old Yogi...nailed the multi thingee and didn't even know it. Everyone is talking, no one is listening, no one is considering that history and future are the same. Result...the freeway of America life is slowly, but inevitably grinding toward interlock.

Randall

Randall 9-28-2003 0:23

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lianchun yang china haicheng pin yang talc mining co.,ltd. 9-27-2003 22:59

RANDALL -- The "widow's mite" comes from Luke 21:1-4 --

"He (Jesus) looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury; and he saw a poor widow put in two copper coins. And he said, "Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all of them; for they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all the living that she had."

I wrote a poem about it a while back -- just posted it in the workbook (Offering)if you'd like to see it.

RE: getting bored in a church service. I used to get bored from time to time. Then I realized that, according to scripture, (which I believe completely) we're gathering together to worship the Living God -- Creator and Sustainer of all that is. And He has chosen to be there with us! It's not just a man spouting platitudes that we come to give our attention to -- it's our risen Lord. And I know I'm welcome in His presence because He said "Whosoever wil may come."
Church hasn't been the same since!

howard 9-27-2003 21:43

JERRY: CONGRATULATIONS!!!! I'm so proud of you.
He who doesn't try has already failed.

RACHEL: HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY!!!! And that's not the only thing that's late. Forgive me. I'm going through a stage.


TAYLOR: I had published a short story that was supposed to be a humorous look at some people's beliefs.
In my more paranoid moments I fear some nutter with a lot of time on their hands might take it upon themsleves to extract revenge.
Which also makes me think I may have some kind of celebrity complex because on the scale of what some folks have written mine is really quite benign.
Mind you, I don't get hung up about this all the time, only when I happen to think of it.

So, would I do it again.
Probably, but I would use a psuedonym.

I have the courage of my convictions only when I'm not dealing with a crazy with a gun, or a bomb, or a really twisted mind set.

RACHEL: I agree with you. Multiculturalism is a wonderful idea.
Take all humans out of the equasion and it stands a chance or working.

PAUL: Hi :-).

Avag'day all.





Teekay 9-27-2003 20:31

Well got my first official rejection notice today. Haven't got that spike up in my little office as of yet so I tossed it in a drawer in my computer desk.

It was from a short story submission, a simple zeroxed rejection but hey it's going to be the first of many, if I can talk myself into researching more markets for my stuff. Having stuff published on the web is ok I guess but now I'd like to have something else in hard copy.

Jerry 9-27-2003 19:07

RACHEL,

Love your political ranting. Maybe that is because I happen to agree with it.

There is nothing wrong with a good political rant. I have one in my possession right now written by an Italian journalist (her name escapes me). Anyhow she got married just for the purpose of interviewing Yasser Arafat, because he would not talk to a single woman. My father bought me the book and I read the first few chapters. It is a rant, but a good rant by an intelligent and interesting person. But this particular one is non-fiction and makes no pretenses about it.

Nathaniel Hawthorne wrote several stories involving New England Puritans. THE SCARLET LETTER is my favorite. That book and stories like it are critical, but in a constructive way. You do not have to be religious to identify with the characters in THE SCARLET LETTER. Every author must have something to say. The message does not have to be controversial, but sometimes it is, and much of the greatest literature does have something uncomfortable to say. There is a fine line between controversial, or critical, and preachy.

We had an interesting guest speaker at our Southern Louisiana Author's meeting last week. The woman wrote biographies. She had written one of Kate Chopin and another one of the author of PATEN PLACE. She told us how many biographies get started, but never get finished because the significant subjects of the biography do not like what is in them. Many sue. Oftentimes everyone involved in the story has to be dead many years before this sort of project can be completed, and in the meantime the author has gone on to other projects.

RANDALL,

Thanks for sharing. We always leave church five minutes early, because it is then that the children give out and become hard to control.

I feel so decadent. I went to Baton Rouge and attended their RWA chapter. Two in one month, plus two critique meetings. I love it! It is so great to connect with other writers face to face.



Rhoda 9-27-2003 18:00

Hi Taylor,

I think Rhoda and Ben have about covered this from one end to the other, but when has that ever made me stop from giving a word on something... Hum, that would be never ;o)

I say be true to yourself. Ben has a good point. As long as it isn't hate literature go with it. You can't write a thing that won't offend some person or another. We live in such a P.C., sensitive, whine and cry world, that you honestly can't not set off some person or another.

Political Rant to Follow

I think that my Multi-cultural poem will be about as close to being an open ass hole as I ever plan to get. I've got real issues with that little gem and think that it is a total myth. A lovely idea, but not something that is really happening, or could ever really happen. The very moment that we grant special right and considerations to one group another culture is being prejudiced against and on and on then in the mix of it all our nation swims about without any real roots, other than those that connect us to a queen who is no longer ours. Oh, and the shame that we are being fed by the bucket full by well intended or not so well intended governments.
I'm kind of frustrated. I know that there are a bunch of people in my class who are going to jump all over me for my Ode (which has had some work done to it - much needed work). They will think that I'm being unfair. I think that the past was unfair, unjust, ugly as sin in some spots, but, it is the history of our country and not representative of the actions of the people today. I think my nation needs to move forward and stop looking back and being ashamed for their past. We are moving fast to the brink of internal fragmentation that may not be reparable. It freaks me out. People say that multi culturalism is so good. I really don't know about that at all. I think the idea is good, but the reality ain't so fine to look at. All I see is a government twisting things to fit their needs at different times and places. I see people manipulating to eek out things that they feel they deserve while others are somehow less deserving of them. Let the past pass, let the nation heal and let the guilt and shame pass away and in its place allow us to move forward with open eyes and a decision to not let such things happen again. The way things are now makes me think of times gone past when the debts of the parents would pass to the children, an inherited debt. I thought that was gone. Apparently not, it seems that it is alive and well in my nation.

Howard,

Now I am off to read the essay that you wrote.

RDRKO

Rachel 9-27-2003 16:26

Hey Paul,

Sounds like the story your working on is going well. That is always good. I don't think that you should worry about if you write a lot on some days and less than you would like on others. As long as you are able to write and the creativity is still alive and kicking your doing great (smiles). I am currently working on a few different things. My favorite right now is an reflective journal on the writing of a participation journal. It's kind of fun. I am also in school and busy with writing papers. I got a set of stories from Ben, a fellow on this NB. He has a post just a few above this one that you left. I'm looking forward to reading those. I also have a set of chapters from another fellow on the NB that I am dying to get to read. The other fellow is called Barnabus. He gave me the text a long time ago. I feel like a shit heel for not having read it yet. It's good stuff too. That's about it for me and my writing though.

Take care you :o)

RDRKO

Rachel 9-27-2003 16:02

Howard! Ewwwwwwwww! (grin/snort/laugh).

RDRKO

Rachel 9-27-2003 15:57

**Taylor**

Laughing at Howards Joke.
I definately am seeing the point that's being made

Taylor 9-27-2003 13:48

Randall

HEY!

Was I surprised to find this in today's SLC Tribune. It is a follow up to a column last week on "Sneaking out of Church." Again I am too lazy to roust out my muse and write. So...lets see what Mr. Kirby says..... (Posted as is...)

KIRBY: BORED IN CHURCH, MANY FOLKS FLEE IN SPIRIT

By Robert Kirby
Salt Lake Tribune Columnist

"Many people wrote and gave me their widow's mite regarding last week's column about sneaking out of church early.

The feedback came from a wide variety of positions on the subject. A few readers were annoyed that anyone would even consider leaving church early. Others offered their own personal escape tactics.

I even heard from a couple of atheists incensed that most of the world doesn't think about church exactly like they do. Talk about your dogmatic beliefs.

There are a number of reasons why it might not be convenient to leave church early, not the least of which is a concern over having to spend the night in the back yard. Lots of guys go to church because they are wife-fearing rather than God-fearing.

Some people are simply better suited for long meetings. Even so, enjoying church does not make you a better member of it than someone who does not. Jiffy Lube has a waiting room full of people who haven't got a clue how their car works.

But even the most ardent worshippers sometimes long for escape. That's because as wonderful as it is intended to be, the gospel is far too easily turned into drudgery by spiritual bureaucrats.

Several months ago I sat through High Council Sunday service in my ward. For the non-LDS, this is a meeting when a local church authority stops by to tell us what's on the Lord's mind.

Whether or not it deserves the reputation, High Council Sunday is nonetheless widely feared among Mormons for its boredom potential. It sometimes ranks only slightly more agreeable than having a wart removed with a Brillo pad.

The meeting I was stuck in consisted of two speakers whose idea of engaging gospel discourse consisted of finding every conceivable way of saying, "I like church and so should you."

Midway through the last talk I counted the number of people visibly paying attention. Of the 50 or so adults I could see, only two actually seemed to be listening.

Some were asleep. A few fussed with kids. Others read, fiddled with Palm Pilots, watched the clock, or stared numbly off into space. One of us was doing an eyeball survey.

Granted, you don't necessarily have to look at the person giving a sermon to hear what is being said. Then again just because it looks like you are paying attention does not mean that you are.

So, if you are stuck in church and bored to the point that the time/space continuum threatens to collapse, what do you do?

You can play tic-tac-toe, write a letter, read a book, keep track of grammar mistakes, count how many times the speaker says an annoying catchphrase, or even think up novelty titles for the sermon, such as "Narcolepsy and the Old Testament."

The official line suggests that you try to pay attention. If you can't, you might want to say a personal prayer and ask for patience. Keep in mind, however, that you will be praying to a God who himself is famous for running out of patience when things drag on too long.

Salt Lake Tribune columnist Robert Kirby welcomes mail at 143 S. Main St., Salt Lake City, UT 84111, or e-mail at rkirby@sltrib.com."

"Widows mite?" I never heard this saying?

Randall

Randall 9-27-2003 13:46

Yes, poor Robert Palmer is gone at age 54 -- too bad, I rather liked some of his stuff.

Ultimately turned out he was "Simply Irresuscible"...

howard 9-27-2003 12:53

**Taylor**

I'm not out to offend groups or family... It's funny, I'm an outgoing kind of guy who loves a good laugh and fun. But usually in my stories I seem to come across as dark.

But due to my feelings about the world at the present time I had this idea to write long short stories "Novella" I think is the term, about possible future scenarios induced by paranoia. I guess I'm writing it for myself as well as trying to tell a compelling tale. The first story was inspired by a debate on "The Oreilly Factor" between Oreilly and Tom Clancy.

I guess since I know the content of this particular idea contains content of a touchy subject... Such as a Nation's Security and how taking it to the extreme could almost be as dangerous as not having enough security

Taylor 9-27-2003 11:54

Hey there, just dropping in for my weekly, or is it monthly, visit? Sorry I'm late...(this sounds strangley like my wife talking to me.)

Oh, I'm sorry, did I offend anyone with that? No? Oh, I really thought I would have, the way it was implied, I mean.

Taylor: Never worry about anything anyone has to say about the content of what you've written, or plan to write. Most of the time, we think we will be offending someone, when in reality, it couldn't be farther from the truth. If you want to write in a sex scene and use the 'C' word doing it, go ahead...and that's about as offensive as you can get. I call it 'Industrial language'. It's pretty common talk. If you want to offend the religious sentimentality of a select group, or cross the colour line, fine, as long as it's in good taste--hey you moron, isn't that an oxymoron?--and don't listen to the voices in your head. They go away eventually. If you're writing a story, and the person is a bigot, then make him one. If you want to write about child abuse, then make it something that will make people sit up and take notice. Incest, pedophilia (ugh)? All of those things are offensive to people, but can be made into good story lines or character quirks. Religion is a touchy subject. I could probably insult and offend half a dozen different people here just by saying five or six lines. Christ was a Jew? Big deal? Christ didn't live? What else is new? The Bible's a crock of Shit? Never heard that before!

Oh, but it's your parents you're thinking about not offending? Yeah, they've never had sex before, and probably never smoked reefer before either--even though it's been around for a coon's age (and how old does a coon get? Depends on where he lives, and how fast he can outrun the lynch mob!)I'll bet your parent are old. Lived through the war? Probably never lived at all then, eh? Or is it your maiden aunt you're afraid of offending? She's got problems--tell her to go out and get laid or something.

You can't offend anyone if you don't put it out there. Controversy sells, don't forget. So if you wanna say Christ and Mary Magdelene did it, go ahead. About the only problem anyone will have is if it's hate literature. Even I draw the line at that. Stupid f**kin' morons shouldn't have access to pen and paper in the first place, spouting off with that sh*t. Who wants to listen to a bunch of god**mned hicks and their narrow-minded pointy-headed views anyways...oh, did I say that out loud? :-O

Oh yeah, same as what Rhoda said...

ben 9-27-2003 9:49

TAYLOR,

It is impossible to write anything meaningful without offending someone. Are you talking about family members or friends? Will they see the work you plan to do? That is a call each writer has to make.

Ask yourself why you are considering the project. Are you wanting to tell a good and compelling story, or are you wanting to sock it to some group you do not like or approve of. If it is the first reason, then definitely feel good about writing it. If you write it in a sympathetic and mature way, it might not offend as many people as you think; however, if you are writing a story that strikes out a particular group of people with a political or religious bias, then you will offend people and at the same time your art will have suffered. I think motivation is everything, and the truth of it will come out in your writing.

In my experience fictional rants that take pot shots at any group of people, even people I don't like as well, fall flat. There is nothing compelling about hate.

Rhoda 9-27-2003 9:17

**Taylor**

I have one question for you lot: If you had a story idea that you think may offend some people or some may not like due to its content, would you still write it anyway?
For the last 2 wks I've been staring at a blank screen thinking if I should write my idea or not.

More sad news in the Music industry today: Farewell Robert Palmer

Taylor 9-27-2003 4:10

AAAAIIIIIIEEEEEEE heeeee AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE heeee

sorry it's been one of those days and I just had to get it off my chest.

Damn you Bill Clinton where ever you are!!

Jerry 9-27-2003 0:32

Rachel,

For several months now I've been working on a mystery novel which I had been planning to finish by October, but which I now realize will take me a lot longer to finish. My inspiration seems to come in bits and spurts. On some days (very rarely) I have written up to 2500 words, while on others I feel lucky if I can barely squeeze out a paragraph. I think though, that the important thing is that I haven't lost interest in my story, in fact I don't think I will because I am confident that it is very good. What about you? Are you working on anything right now?

9-27-2003 0:23

Paul,

You are welcome :o) Don't feel stupid, not even a little bit. What do you write?

RDRKO

Rachel 9-27-2003 0:14

Thank you Rachel,

I actually felt kind of stupid after writing my first note (or whatever you call it), because right after I had finished it, I clicked on the link entitled What is the Notebook? and there it was, a complete explanation of what I wanted to know in black and white.


9-26-2003 23:01

Hi Paul,

How it works is simple enough. You write a note, then people will write back, or, sometimes they don't. You can come to share your writing relflections, frustrations, hopes and dreams (if you look at forwriters.com) you'll read that put into much more poetic words (smiles).

Sooooooo, welcome to you :o)

RDRKO

Rachel 9-26-2003 18:13

Hello everyone, this is my first time writing here on the notebook. Could anyone explain to me how it works?

Paul 9-26-2003 17:54

Speaking of cats, many moons ago, way back when I first joined the notebook we had living with us, a great golden cat. His name was Dysco, (well it still is) and once our daughter got her own home, he moved home with her.

Now I don't get over to her house very often, and poor old Dysco now suffers with cat Alzhimers disease. He no longer remembers his mistress most of the time, and walks around in a sort of daze much of the time. However, when I come to visit, he perks up. For some reason, he remembers me, and comes to sit with me every time I come to visit.

It could be because he used to practically live on my lap when he lived with us, and I guess he's living back in those days now. Guess I'll have to visit her house more often. He can't come to live with us, since he and our Smokey simply can't be under the same roof (we've tried it).

Jerry 9-26-2003 13:40

My four-year-old grandson Stephen loves baseball. And he loves the Arizona Diamondbacks. They just flew home yesterday from Philadelphia, after a week here, and a week at his other grandparents' home. He had a nice chat with the gentleman seated in front of them -- Jerry Colangelo, owner of the Diamondbacks!
My son-in-law (also a baseball fanatic) knows Mr Colangelo, who was a major contributor to a Christian camp ministry that my son-in-law worked for. Needless to say, Stephen was thrilled!


howard 9-25-2003 18:35

Hello Taylor, you lurker, you :o)

Thanks for the birthday greetings. I love em all!!! I'm not really going to celebrate my B-day till Sunday, but I enjoyed the day anyhow.

RDRKO

Rachel 9-25-2003 14:49

Happy Birthday Rachel

I've just been lurking lately... not much to talk about at this end of the world

Taylor The Lurker 9-25-2003 12:35

I am the editor of a newly created online magazine, and I need writings for its second issue (due Nov. 1st). If anyone of you is interested, please visit the link www.panoramaemag.com . I'd be really grateful if you'd forward the link to people you know.
Please view the submission guidelines (www.panoramaemag.com/submission_guidelines.htm) and the FAQ
(www.panoramaemag.com/faq.htm) for more help. Or email me at editor@panoramaemag.com.

Thank you



Raza Zaidi Panorama 9-25-2003 11:06

Rhoda!

Thank you too :o) Thirty-five does feel young. When I was a kid i thought that 35 sounded pretty old. Now I grin when I think about that.

All,

Did I mention that there is now a third cat in my house? This cat is again, from the same litter. Pumpkin is his name and he is quite sweet. Pumpkin is not our cat, he is only visiting us for a time while his owner finds a new home that will allow him to keep a cat. I don't know how many of you have had kittens. Till this time I had never had a kitten and had no idea the wicked play that three male kittens from the same litter could get up to! These three go all day and night. Pounce, bounce and purrrrrrr!"

Later

RDRKO

Rachel 9-25-2003 9:48

Mark,

Thank you :o) I like the Ewe thing. Did you know that my name means little lamb? All my life one person and another has called me "little lamb" Kind of funny with Ewe thing (smiles).

Jerry,

Thanks for the birthday greetings. Sounds like your birds need a little protecting. I don't know how well I would take some big bird of prey comping down on my morning viewing. I have always lived in areas where I get to watch big birds (not big bird) in action. I admire their grace, beauty and percision. I don't think I would want to see it out the front window though...

Americo, Jon and Pussy,

Thank you for swining past the NB to post me a note on my birthday :o)

Take care all.

RDRKO

Rachel 9-25-2003 9:34

Happy Birthday, RACHEL. Thirty-five is young. The nice thing about thirty-five is that physically you are fit and youthful, but you have so much more wisdom than you did when you were twenty-five.

Rhoda 9-25-2003 8:05

Carol, does that count? It happened by mistake. Sometimes things like that happen when you stuff cotton in your ears to avoid the call of the muse when you have to learn to earn. House still not rented! Oh brother.

Randall, LOVED your article. Sneaked out of church early last week. I used to ask my kids to act up in church too. Great way to get out in the sunshine and admire the day. Two Sunday's ago the priest was going on and on about how he loved some animals but for others, like snakes, he had a real distaste. He explained that he should love all animals as St. Francis. After he said, "I don't like snakes" three times, I got bored.

Well, after I got bored, I got a case of the wigglies. I faked a coughing attack and walked out the side door for a little break from routine. I was actually thinking about leaving but since my daughter and husband were still in there and I couldn't politely get the whole family out of there, I was stuck. The choice was hightail it and leave the family stranded without a car, or take a breather and get back inside in a reasonable amount of time.

In the courtyard they'd set up the coffee and rolls for after the service.

A big black crow came swooping down, landed on the table and made off with a roll. He was gone about long enough for me to blink twice and grin then he was back. He stuck his beak into another roll and took off again.

Moral to the story: If you don't take a break now and then, you don't get to see the humor in life.

Viv again 9-25-2003 3:25

I no longer have time to write anything outside of papers for my teaching class. I'm doing my student teaching plus working plus writing papers and answering questions like "Do you think your state’s standards/benchmarks will help you develop more effective lesson plans?"

Because I cannot write little bits of Notebook writing keep leaking out of my fingers and onto my assignments. I have a feeling I didn't do so well this week with lesson planning according to Blooms Taxonomy (a list of criteria we have to meet: The student will show Knowledge, Comprehension,Application, Analysis, Synthesis,and Evaluation)
Below is my lesson plan for this week using the correct words from Blooms Taxonomy. Skim the top but please carefully read the bottom.


A Hands On Lesson In Simple Machines
Done for Saint Jude's* Elementary School
(Note: Saint Jude is the patron saint for hopeless cases.)

GOAL:
Student recognizes and explains how specific tools, technology and inventions assist humans to work efficiently or live more conveniently.
(Department of Defense School Standards, 4th Grade Science)

Objectives Listed According to Bloom's Revised Taxonomy
Level I Remember-
The learner must be able to list the six simple machines (lever, inclined plane, pulley, screw, wheel, axel and wedge recall when feasible the approximate dates,and names of inventors.

Students will research the topic of simple machines on the internet. Findings will be discussed.
Students will attempt to date the invention of each simple machine.

Level II Understand-
The learner must be able to grasp the reason the invention of these machines was important to mankind. Learners will be able to differentiate between the way each invention works. They will express their findings in a group paper which will be discussed orally before it is written.

Students will visit the local Children's museum where a temporary exhibit of simple machine is set up. They will be able to have hands on experience in operating levers, using an inclined plane, a wedge, a pulley to lift a large weight, operate a giant screw and see drills that operate on the same principle, and follow the development of wheel and axel to automobile.

Students will discuss their visit to the museum in teams and write papers defining the use and development of each machine.

Level Three APPLY- The learners will be able to use or apply the knowledge or skills to new situation. Students will be given a lever, screw, wedge, inclined plane, pulley and a wheel/axel. They will be told to use these objects to create an assembly line that does a task (such as moving the teacher's desk)
Students will form teams and sketch the design of an assembly line used to move a teacher's desk. They will perform the task using materials they are given in the classroom.

The teacher will find a safe place to stand in the classroom and remove all sharp objects from the desk drawers and tape them shut or find a new activity that does not require full body armor! (Somebody, think of something REALISTIC PULLLEEEZE!) Maybe the students can move raw eggs without breaking them...but they should realize that these machines helped mankind to deal with heavy loads.

Level Four ANALYZE- When the desk drops and falls on the principal, Mr. Right, and the student teacher Mrs. Wrong, who came to observe the class, Students and teachers will analyze their ideas to see how they could be improved. Students will analyze and discuss the problems that caused the assembly line to fail to operate properly. They will explain the ramifications of dropping a desk on the principal and a community member to the school and distinguish between accident and actual sin.

Level Five EVALUATE - Argue Assess Attack, the teacher and students will do all three as they attempt to shift the blame for the failure of the assembly line and the subsequent death of an important member of the community and the principal. They will critique the actual cause of the failure and recommend changes. Finally they will resolve the ethical issue and take up a collection to buy a large bouquet of flowers for both principal and community member.

Meanwhile they will find the source of the failure of their assembly line and weigh various solutions to transporting the teachers desk.

Level Six - Create, Construct, Invent, Modify, Produce
The night before the double funeral service of Mr. Right and Mrs. Wrong, students will sneak into Saint Jude's Parish Hall and Construct a new invention which will move the teacher's desk. They set it up so it will whizz over the heads of those attending the funeral. They write a large note of apology outlining how their project went wrong and was improved. They paste this to the desk and haul it up to the ceiling.


They go home to get some much needed sleep because they are well aware that sleep will help them synthesize what they have learned. They want to be up bright and early so they can attend the funeral services.









Viv 9-25-2003 3:00

HAPPY BIRD DAY TWO EWE

HAPPY BIRD DAY TWO EWE

HAPPY BIRD DAY DEAR

{scroll down
scroll down
} RACHEL

HAPPY BIRD DAY TWO EWE !!

Mark 9-24-2003 21:32

I know there's this poll thing that is attached to the workbook, in fact I've even tried it a couple of times, but this is a simple man (/woman) on the notebook poll.

Question: Have you heard that there was another school shooting today 9-24-03?

If not could it be the location? A town in Minnesota? or maybe the fact that only one child died before a hero teacher talked the student/killer into dropping the handgun (also one wounded I hear), and if so, how many children must die before the PRESS national that is, picks up on it, 3, 5, 10 or more?

Maybe I just missed it on the national news, that could be since I seem to be paying less and less attention to whats talked about on the national news programs anyhow.

Jerry 9-24-2003 21:00

Happy Birthday Rachel!!!!! Wow, I wish I was 35 again!!

And the STUPIDITY continues - now the COURTS have said that all thirty-five million who signed up for the telemarketing do not call list don't have that RIGHT????

Time to HANG the JUDGES!!!

What a bunch of CRAP!!!!

Ok down off my soap box once more.

As I have mentioned from time to time, I feed our feathered friends, and have a battery of seven feeders just outside my xtra large picture window. Well a few days ago, this prairie falcon decided that he needed feeding too, he swooped down from the sky and departed with a morning dove in his talons. Today, he came again, this time when he arrived all the birds that were feeding departed in a great hurry, leaving white trails across the lawn, the falcon landed on the evergreen hedge that adorns the outside of my picture window and looked in at me. Smokey was resting on the back of the couch in front of that self same window, and was a bit frightened by the arrival of a large bird (he loves dreaming of being on the other side of the glass when they feed) and fled to the other room. The falcon just sat there for a couple of minutes (long enough for me to grab my birds of North America book to look him up) then flew off.

He was here a couple more times today, just flying by the window and frightening the other birds.

Gives a whole new meaning to feeding the birds.

Jerry 9-24-2003 18:58

Happy Birthday, Rachel!

Americo, Jon and Pussy

Americo, Jon and Pussy 9-24-2003 18:29

Howard,

Yes, yes, I do sound much younger (grins and laughter). I actually do sound very young. I just have one of those kinds of voices. Lots of people who call the house ask to speak with my mummy. There are times when I sound a little older. It kind of depends on the energy with which I speak. Know what I mean?

Hey! The karma gods smiled on me today. I feel their showers spilling over me and am in bliss. Sighs and happy faces. I have to say that right now my life has a good measure of suffering in it, but, at the same time, I could say it is one of the most beautiful, rewarding and happy segments I have experienced in a long time. Isn't that cool?

Hugs to Dorie, oh, and to you too ;o)

RDRKO

Rachel 9-24-2003 16:44

RACHEL!!! --- Happy Birthday! You sound much younger!

:-)

ALL -- Do you know the collective noun for ferrets? How about wrens? A friend just sent me the url of a page that lists these and many others.

Check out http://elmtree.members.beeb.net/htmldb/collectivenouns.htm

(or http://tinyurl.com/ojr7 ) (I love that tinyurl thingy!)

and find that it's a "business" of ferrets and, believe it or not, a "herd" of wrens.

Many more collective nouns and words for animal sounds on that page. Very interesting!

howard 9-24-2003 16:32

Mel!

Thank you lady bug :o) I just had a call from my mum. She is such a sweet bea. She called to bring me some cheer on this, my 35th birthday.

ALL,

I've posted my "Ode to Multiculturalism" on the WB. I hope that you will take a look at my initial effort. Keep in mind that there is much more I plan to add.

Good wishes to all.

RDRKO

Rachel 9-24-2003 14:44

RACHEL!!! Have your cake AND eat it too! :-] Have a wonderful day...

Hi to all as I'm doing a drive-by posting...

Mel 9-24-2003 13:35

Hi guys,

Today is my birthday! I am trollin for birthday greetings ;o) Yeah, yeah, yeah (sing song voice). I'm feeling in a very bright state.

RDRKO






Rachel 9-24-2003 13:19

Howard,

Consider yourself kissed! Heck, I'll kiss Dorie too :o)

RDRKO

Rachel 9-24-2003 11:27

As long as it's from there I guess my wife won't mind...

howard 9-24-2003 10:31

Howard! I could kiss you!!!

RDRKO

Rachel 9-24-2003 9:58

Oh, and they're not listed as "ode" alphabetically. Third line from the bottom of the chart has several -- Horatian, Pindaric, etc.

howard 9-24-2003 9:55

OOOps! I forgot it doesn't like some of the longer urls -- either copy/paste that whole line into your browser or use

http://tinyurl.com/ohwh

which is the same thing in tinyurl format.

howard 9-24-2003 9:53

RACHEL -- You can find lots of information on several different forms of the ode at

http://www.uncg.edu/~htkirbys/stanzas.htm

There's lots of interesting stuff there.

MORPHEUS -- leave my muse alone! She needs her rest as much as anyone.

howard 9-24-2003 9:51

Hey Litter!

It is good to see you posting again. I was thinking of you the other day. I had been missing you.

RDRKO

Rachel 9-24-2003 9:35

Eddie, Heather, taucjer and Rhoda,

Thank you all for your feedback. It is good to know other people have had this sort of feeling. I honestly can say that I've not met a lot of people that make me want to get up and leave a room. That is a pretty special club to land in...

Eddie,

I will keep in mind what you posted. There was some good advice/info in there. I appreciate you having taken the time to put it up for me.

All,

What can you guys tell me about Odes? I know that they should being with an invocation of a muse. After that I've got that it should be Patriotic with a use of elevated language, a rally cry for people. It is my understanding that it should also be short and lyrical, possibly leaning towards being set to music.

Are there Odes that are longer? Does an Ode need to be short? What do you guys think or know on the matter.

In case you are wondering why I suddenly care about the Ode, it is because I am going to do an Ode, or a set of Odes, if structure dictates, that will make up the body of a presentation for my Candian Cultural Policy presentation.

Much appreciated.

RDRKO

Rachel 9-24-2003 9:32

RACHEL,

EDDIE is absolutely right. Trust your instincts. Everytime I didn't listen to mine, I regretted it.

Rhoda 9-24-2003 8:00

The music is making me sick
It must go away.

IF you want to find if one is true just look into their eyes. The eyes never hide the truth.



tuacjer 9-24-2003 2:34

AND WHO ARE YOU, SMALL PERSON, TO BELITTLE THE NOCTURNAL INSPIRATIONS OF ONE OF THE GREAT LORDS OF DARKNESS?

I, MORPHEUS have deigned to visit in the night, and have goaded your poor muses into frenetic homage to my greatness.

And you make light of this?

I, MORPHEUS will allow this indiscretion to pass this time, due to your obviously over-stressed faculties. But beware the consequences of a loose tongue -- the very name of MORPHEUS still wields the great power of nether darkness!

morpheus 9-23-2003 20:31

Eddie, that was extremely well-said; I'm re-learning what you spoke of as we speak.... LOL
Rachel - take Eddie's advice!
:o)


Heather 9-23-2003 20:09

Greetings and felicitations!

Where does the time go? In the UK it is the time for the taxman to cometh, and as my filing system is a heap of scrunched up papers and receipts I've been having lots of fun…

So, Sobig has gone and it wasn't followed by something else as expected, so I guess I can go and unblock all the edresses caught in the crossfire. But now I've got a bad case of cyberparanoia, so I've installed a modest thermonuclear device on my modem.

Daughter number two has been safely ensconced in halls at Dundee University, with little trauma, so it's time for her to find out about life in the big bad world. (Not that I remember it being too bad when I was a student, sigh…)

Daughter number one's pregnancy progresses without any problems more serious than heartburn. She's in the last 7 weeks now…

I have managed to finagle (love that word) a book signing at a local Christian book shop – sci-fi in a parochial Christian community – I expect it to be brutal and bloody with, perhaps, a burning at the steak of me in effigy if not in person. :o

PAMELA – thanks muchly for the thoughts and for your consideration. Hopefully your fiscal situation will get better – I think there are a few of us here in various models of the same boat. But I'm a big fan of catastrophe theory (not to be confused with chaos theory), and look forward to my next upturn happening when I least expect and look for it. (So I never look for it.)

ANDREW – belated congrats. Hang on tight for the ride.

GERRY – Looks like global warming is with us. It's been unseasonably warm off and on all summer. I live in Scotland and now have ceiling fans in all the rooms!!!

ROWDAH – Coming from Saturn is ok. Thankfully he didn't tell you he was from one planet further out… As for the world, think of the joy to come.

MARK – many congrats on the new job.

Welcome Pedro.

Well, a few nights ago I dreamed a better ending for my w.i.p. than I had planned. I seem to be at my best when I'm sleeping – don't it just make you sick? If this keeps up I'll be recommending morphine as a writing aid…

As for all the seismic tat of a while ago – c'mon people, get with the program and repeat after me, "Disturbances were caused by gravitational compressions from passing super-massive UFO's." All straight now?

Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht order… OK, I wont go there again.

Enuff for now


Litter 9-23-2003 19:59

Rachel,
I know that feeling all too well.
The first thing to remember is that really true people, honest people DONT talk about it, thay have no need for that frippery. Actions speak volumes, time will tell if someone is true or false. I learned this at an early age (about 21) when somebody I thought was a true friend let me down badly. I have never spoken to him since. (Business affairs)
I find myself thinking more and more about relationships and how people treat each other lately. In fact, when I look back over my life I find that I always have. Perhaps I just understand more about it all now. One thing I have learned and believe ferverently is that people do not change, not under any circumstances. They may mellow a little or become more bolshi as they grow older, but basic personality traits and values learned in the formative years persist to the end.
I would let this person know in no uncertain terms that he/she (Can't be bothered going back to your post to check the gender)is glass to you. You don't have to be confrontational about it by using the words which this person puts no value on anyway, just use your own personality to get the message across.
I have a friend who is very money oriented. Whenever we are out and stop for lunch or just for a coffee he counts up who has had what and works out the cost. Heaven forbid that he should pay a penny more than his share. I deal with this by being the opposite and getting the bill whenever I can. I usually throw in a comment like "It's only a couple of pounds, It's nothing, don't worry about it".
It doesn't change his obsession with money in the slightest, but it makes me feel better when I get annoyed with it all. Despite this small flaw he is a good friend and we have lots of other things in common.(I wouldn't go into business with him though)
I can see this person that you spoke about, sitting there spewing words of little or no value, bolstering his/her own ego more with every sentence. Trust your instincts and deal with it accordingly.
Ed

Eddie French 9-23-2003 15:44

RACHEL -- I think a load of 12 gauge 00 Buckshot would tend to change the direction, intent, and outcome of a cougar attack. And you don't have to be dead accurate, either.
Check the following article for a different viewpoint on mountain lions. A woman killed one with a .22 after it killed her dog and attacked her other pets, right on her porch! The author of this article took exception:

http://www.gristmagazine.com/imho/imho051000.asp



howard 9-23-2003 15:19

About meeting people.

Have you ever had an experience where you meet a person and just get the "no feeling" from them. It isn't anything that they have said or done, or suggested, it is just something about them? I've recently had this come up. The person in question comes across as very nice, but there are little things that just make me want to get up and leave the room when said person opens up the mouth. I wonder what that is about? I think it is that I get a total fake persona vibe from person X. The person talks about being true and I smell false all over the place. I guess I'll just need to be nice and choak back the urge to leave the room when X shows up. It is a situation where I can't just walk out. I have to sit and behave. I am not pretending to like this person, or being extra nice or anything like that. I couldn't be bothered to. I'm being polite, which is about the best that I can do.

I sort of just wanted to vent about that.

RDRKO

Rachel 9-23-2003 12:40

Hi Pedro,
Welcome. You know, you remind me of Pester so much!

Eddie French 9-23-2003 11:58

Pedro,

Welcome.

Howard,

I was not happy about the attacks on the horses. I hope it is not as much of a problem this year. The dog that I believe had been attacking my horses is now gone. It left with the neighbour that was attacking my peace of mind. I don't know if I told you, but I had started to find broken glass, little hunks of wood with nails smashed into them at all different points and sharp bits of pop cans and the like. I had to go out every morning and afternoon to pick this sort of crap out of the pen. I am sure it was them, as since they have left I haven't had anything like that show up in the pen. I guess that there is the cougar to think about, but we haven't seen anything from that one for a time. Soon it will be the bears. We get a lot of them in and around the area before they off to bed for the winter. I have had people tell me that I'm crazy to walk and ride the woods without a weapon. I see lots of people who do walk and ride the woods and to date I've not seen one who was with gun. I do take an air horn with me when I hit the trails, but other than that I'm on my own. I kind of think that if a cougar is stalking you, your hooped, even if you have a gun, unless you are an experienced shot. I don't think you would get a whole lot of time to aim at a pouncing cat. I'm not a coyote fan. We have many, many of them. You can't drive to town without seeing a few of them. My husband wants chickens or ducks. I can't stomach the shred and rip event that chickens and ducks often turn into.

I'm sad to hear about the poor little horse. The owner must have been shocked and upset. I have had visions of that sort of thing happening to one of my babies, though, with their size I guess it would be a lot more difficult. Things over 1000 lbs go down a little harder. If I heard a pack of coyote at them, I would come unglued. We have an understanding with the neighours. If they hear the air horn they will come and apparently they will come with guns in hand. That is kind of nice to know. Only problem is that they are a little hard of hearing...

Ciao for now.

RDRKO

Rachel 9-23-2003 11:42

Two people having a conversation, to be envisioned as you please, or not.

"There are probably plenty of reasons for me to be here. But they are reasons that everyone else seems to understand, not me. I'm out of it all, they go on and on and I go nowhere, just here. I need help. Can you help me?"

"I would most certainly like to, there are, after all, multiple forces pulling on our lives from all different directions all the time whether we are aware of it or not. To recognize and understand is a task in itself, one that few, if any, have mastered."

"But where is my starting point, is there a layout of where I need to go?"

"Well, your starting point has to come from within yourself, and, being your own, become associated with that powerful feeling that keeps it alive within you. Call it pride, call it joy, whatever it is, it is necessary, and useful."

"I'm lost. You have to keep things simple for me, line them up, 1-2-3, I can follow directions man!"

"Thats your job."

"What?"

"You have to sit down or walk around and organize things for yourself. All I can offer you is what I have; if I tried to alter that for every person I met, it just couldn't happen."

"So what do I do now?"

"You know what? I'm gonna take a walk. Take a break." (turns and leaves)



Pedro 9-23-2003 10:23

The first trip to the hills is out of the way, went well for the wife, and the trip was overall a success. I had a bad night last night, and didn't get much sleep, so the wife had to take over driving after the sun came up, and drove most of the way down. I was rested enough to make the trip home. Going to be a bit stove up tomorrow but must attend the funeral of my childhood best friend's mother. She was a wonderful lady, and I did love her dearly. She treated me like one of her sons, and I was grateful for that. It was she who introduced me to the church, when my parent's hadn't the time or inclination to send me, or for that matter even speak of it with me.

I will miss her, and am saddened at the loss her good sons are feeling now. The fact that she is going to a much better place comforts us all, as she suffered from diabetes and endured the disease eating away at her body, robbing her of her legs, one at a time, then her eyes, and now her life.

Other then that it was a bright sunny day here a bouts, all that we met along the trip were happy with the recent rain, and the wonderful reprieve from the fast approach of winter (IT SNOWED A BIT HERE YESTERDAY just a bit, enough to let us know it's just around the corner).

Jerry 9-23-2003 0:32

PEDRO -- Welcome to our little bit of strangeness! And thanks for posting yours! I enjoyed it.
Stick around!

---

RACHEL -- was it you that posted about an animal attack on one of your horses? If so, you're lucky! A gal who lives a few miles from me was not so fortunate. She had a miniature horse killed and half eaten by a pack of coyotes a week or so ago. This little horse was full grown -- weighed around 350 lbs. Most of our neighbors (myself included) are carrying shotguns when walking in the woods now, and we're declaring war on the coyotes, dogs running deer, and on the feral cats around here. Some of the latter have moved into my barn, and are making a real stink. Literally!

The cat problem is worse than it was when we first moved up here in the early 60s. I remember being awakened by a gunshot (I worked nights then) early one morning. Ran down to see my younger brother cleaning up a mess on the back porch steps. He had just started down the steps to go hunting, and one of the wild cats jumped out from between the steps and attacked him, trying to bite his leg. Fortunately, he was wearing high-top hunting boots and heavy canvas hunting pants. The cat wrapped itself around his ankle, trying its best to bite. He just put the muzzle of the old 12 gauge down there and nearly blew the critter in half. Found out later that it had been killing chickens and other birds all around the hill.
I got another one a week later, that was so deformed that it looked like a miniature sabretooth tiger!
Now they're back.

howard 9-23-2003 0:23

words are at my fingertips
but which one will ease its way out?
birds are at the window
chirping, your time is running out...
a song is on my tongue, with bread crumbs,
just can't swallow them down,
your image dazzles my mind,
so sick of people falling out...

Pedro 9-22-2003 22:40

Hi All :)

Dreary, cloudy, rainy day here. Buts that ok too. We still need the rain.

Looks like everyone is, for the most part, on the upswing with things. Mel found her Muse and Mark found a great sounding job. I found Inspiration software. Ohhhh, what fun this is looking to be! An actual outline all set up for fiction writing! And to find a great review on the software right when I'm actually starting to outline my novel? hmmm, seems like an omen to me! So, that's what I'm a doing on the writing front. Outlining. I've been keeping the outline up on the screen all day long and as I think of something, I run to the computer and throw in the info. The story is starting to take on a shape it lacked during the freewriting stage.

The siding on the house has finally been finished this past weekend and it looks so great! Now to get all the mess cleaned up. Bummer. Always something to do when you own your own home.

I signed up for an Art Club that will start meeting once a month beginning in Oct. I'm not "big" in the art field where I'm looking to be really, really good. I just enjoy it as a relaxing hobby and want to be good enough to gift my family and friends with something that looks decent. I'm looking forward to the classes. Good way to get out of the house once in a while too beyond the weekly shopping or vet appointments.

Ok, enough rambling from me. Just had to pop in and say hi to everyone. I'm still alive and trying to write. And trying. And trying ...... :)

Carol 9-22-2003 15:50

Mel,

I am loving your bright posts. I can feel your happy on the flow right on through the net! I'm so pleased to read that your Muse is so active and your writing happening.

I wish you a good day :o)

Ciao for now.

RDRKO



Rachel 9-22-2003 9:37

Good morning, Writers!

My muse and I have decided.

Despite gloomy skies, housework never finished, uncertain job futures (my hubby's still searching) and living arrangements (to move or not to move...), be it hectic Monday or frazzled Wednesday or chaotic Saturday or inbetween, the novel MUST be written.

The words are flowing! :-) (Remind me I said that next time I hit a block!) Now, to make TIME my partner...

Watch out. It MIGHT be contagious. Are you pulling out paper and pen yet? Are your fingers itching to dance across the keyboard, hmm? LET THEM!!! My muse gives you permission to WRITE. TODAY. (Yup, this is a challenge. How many of us will write SOMETHING today? And entries on the NB don't count, however inspiring!)

A fantastic writing day to each of you...! 8-]


Mel 9-22-2003 7:58

Out of chat. Rhoda stopped by to say hello. Thanks, Rhoda. Enjoy the movie.

The chat boxes are higher on the screen than I would have designed, but they work just fine. I turned on the message notification chime while I waited alone and did not have to keep looking at the computer to see if anyone else had logged in. Once we got started that chime was a touch annoying. I think I can jsut trun off the skpeears, but I'll hvae to wiat utnil nxet caht to fnid out.

Mark 9-20-2003 22:26

9:45. I'm in Chat Will be here until a little after 10:00

Mark 9-20-2003 21:55

Brilliance and hilarity are forthwith going to flow from my hackneyed fingertips.... Brilliance and hilarity are forthwith going to bolster from my hackneyed fingertips... Brilliance and *crrrrrk*...oh damn.

...broke a blister.

HA HA HA HA HAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAHAHHAHAA


Heather 9-20-2003 20:49

ohhhhhhhh, so that's it! :-D

Well, I guess it was one of the 'don't days' when that was posted cos I got mine through the mail the day I posted it here.

Like I'd do something so obvious.:-)

At least, I'd like to think I wouldn't. :-I

MEL: It took me a while to work out number 6 on that daffynitions list you posted.
Eventually I tried it with an American accent, and whaddya know, it worked. :-D

going...

Teekay 9-20-2003 17:37

Randall

Hey!

File this under FYI....or Randall is too lazy to write! Mr. Kirby's column from the SLC today.

KIRBY: YOU NEED A GOOD REASON -- AND GOOD TECHNIQUE -- TO LEAVE CHURCH EARLY

By Robert Kirby
Salt Lake Tribune Columnist

"Last Sunday, my wife and I left sacrament meeting early. We had a perfectly good reason, but it doesn't matter because I was also starving. The point is that we left.

When we got home we noticed our neighbors Jason and Shelley pulling in. They had also ditched church. We loudly challenged each other's reasons for leaving. The bishop should definitely have a talk with them.

There may be 50 ways to leave your Lord, but today we will discuss only the top few. By this I do not mean actually abandoning God, but rather cutting out of church services early.

It is an important issue, considering that many church meetings drag on longer than a second mortgage.

Eventually everyone has or will be faced with the need to leave before the blather is over.

Sometimes the reason may be a perfectly legitimate one, like, oh, having another meeting to attend, or because you are feeling ill, or a child is acting up, or because the roof is caving in.

Other times the reason may be less legitimate but still necessary. If the pastor or speaker is saying stuff that makes you want to hurt them, leaving is better than bouncing a hymnal off their heads.

Occasionally you may even be tempted to pretend that you have urgent business elsewhere. Beepers work. So does clutching your stomach and sprinting for the exit, although somewhat less tastefully.

This is when a small child comes in handy. Some might say that children can be taught to remain quiet during church. The truth is that only some children can -- the compliant and easily intimidated ones.

Other children, bad children like I was, cannot. My father missed a lot of church because he was busy dragging me out to the car for a quick cuffing and a check of the sports scores.

Once you get past the why, you have to deal with how. This can be touchy, particularly if you are the kind of person who worries more about what other people think than what God thinks.

While there are no written rules on the appropriate way to leave a church service, it is generally considered bad form to stand up and shout, "OK, who else could go for a Denver omelet right about now?"

No, the idea is to leave as unobtrusively as possible so as not to disturb the other worshippers, many of whom will be monitoring your departure with obvious envy.

How one leaves first depends on when. For example, if it becomes necessary to leave during a prayer or some other ultra-reverent moment, do not skip toward the door slapping high fives along the way.

Slip out as quietly as possible. The best way is to get up and move directly to the exit. Also, do not let the door slam shut behind you.

Leaving reverently does not mean abandoning one's dignity. I have watched people scuttle out of meetings like they were maneuvering under sniper fire.

When all is said and done, how and why you sometimes have to leave church isn't nearly as important as making sure you eventually come back."

Have a good day...

Randall

Randall 9-20-2003 17:26

Shhheeesh!
I didn't even get time to fess up!

Eddie French 9-20-2003 12:08

The eaxct smae jkoe you jsut ptosed

Mark 9-20-2003 9:09

Teekay - hint, read down now a bit farther down, down, down, till you come to - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The exact same joke you just posted!!!!!!

Jerry 9-19-2003 20:04

EDDIE: I don't get it.
But I'm really curious. Whachoo talkin' bout Willis?

When I'm on the computer I'll always open through the notebook.
Sometimes I read it, sometimes not. Sometimes I comment, sometimes I don't. Lately I've been in a 'don't' frame of mind.
I'm a woman of many personalities, er... I mean moods. :-D

I feel like you know something I don't and I really want to know what it is.
So fess up mate.

Is it fate?
Yesterday while out shopping I came across a handycap stall and bought a biro for, wait for it - $3:00!!! Just a normal ol' pen, you know, the ones that come in a pack of 20 for $2:00, or is it less?
What a sucker!
But, it's a biro - you write with it.
Do you think it's a sign?

Teekay 9-19-2003 18:36

Teekay,
Somebody has been just scanning the notebook........haven't they! :¬)

Eddie French 9-19-2003 3:39

Mel,

You funn


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