Writers Notebook

Archived Messages for February 19, 1999 to February 26, 1999

Allein Lunika@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Fri Feb 26 18:16:13 PST 1999

I like the Java chat - just visited - no one's there, but I like the idea - so simple.

Well, I should go.
Bai bai.
Allein

"No quote, sorry."
- Allein

agsousa agsousa@esoterica.pt Fri Feb 26 17:18:12 PST 1999

Jack: Everyting seems to be all right on this side the pound. I tried the indicated link and found a wite page saying something like: "Just checking(...)". As for the URL, I found a blank page (the chat room?). The Notebook has now 177k and is a bit slow.

Tom: How come your Mac crashes? Some odd extension? Mine(s) rarely do(es), except with some stupid program of the thousands that come in Magazine CD-Roms. Netscape isn't so reliable as Explorer (version 7.5 is out now), though I have a lot of sympathy for the former. By mainstream literature I mean everything except sci.f or detective stories — two very specialized genres. But I may be wrong. My English is not so good — let alone my American — as it may look to generous people. This is not an excuse for some interesting irreverences of mine. Irony was always my problem and my charm. My father never understood it and just looked at me severely when I said one of my own. My mother had humour in her veins. She was always pulling someone's leg, even when she cried. I understood them very well and loved both equally.

Lena: are you sure you've read the story of someone's life? If the book was in the first person, you may be sure that it was not autobiographical. Autobiographies are written in no person at all.

Michele and other loners: WE are never alone with schizophrenia, as the famous graffiti goes.

Allein Lunika@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Fri Feb 26 16:08:16 PST 1999

I hope this shows up on my computer screen, or I might have to go on a killing spree!!
Allein

Fri Feb 26 16:03:43 PST 1999

Fri Feb 26 16:00:32 PST 1999

Allein Fri Feb 26 15:59:31 PST 1999

Okay, last time I left a second message, my first one showed up, so I'll leave this here and if my first one doesn't show up, I'll be very pissed off and then write it over.

Allein

Fri Feb 26 15:58:06 PST 1999

Allein Lunika@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Fri Feb 26 15:57:38 PST 1999

PLEASE!! PLEASE!! Have the chat on Sunday when I'm not busy. Saturday night I'm going to a dance so I have to get all my chores and stuff done before hand (makes me feel kinda like Cinderella).

How do we get to the ICQ chat? I haven't used ICQ before.

On the brighter side, I had a good day, except that I found out that I have a test in history next Friday, which wouldn't be so bad except that that's my birthday. Maybe if I tell my teacher that, he'll give me an A on the test - yeah right!! But right now, I'm excited about the dance, it was the kind where the girl asks the guy. I asked my friend Derrick so we're going together, which is cool.

Well, I have to go. Check the notebook later.
Bai bai.
Allein

"HANDWRITING: To their credit, men do not decorate their penmanship. They just chicken-scratch. Women use scented, colored stationary and they dot their i's with circles and hearts. Women use ridiculously large loops in their p's and g's. It is a royal pain to read a note from a woman. Even when she's dumping you, she'll put a smiley face at the end of the note." - Matt Groening

Jack Beslanwitch jack@forwriters.com Fri Feb 26 15:53:59 PST 1999

OK, everything seems to be working at this point. If some of the folks on the other continents, i.e., UK, Portugal and Australia could check out the link to this web site and let me know if you get a valid web page or a page not found it will tell me if webwitch.com has made it around the world. Also, if you are interested and you did in fact see the page I indicated above please visit the following URL http://www.sfnorthwest.org/notebook/ and see if the JAVA chat room works for you. This possibly is another less technical way of meeting with each other. I still want to modify it so that it has our name and other features. But take a look and let me know what you think. Also, due to the change a number of forms are probably not working on forwriters.com including the workbook. I literally do not have time to work out the details at this moment, so feel free to email me directly to suggest things or request Workbook login and password information.

Michele michele@sassoonery.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 26 13:14:54 PST 1999

BTW ! I forgot to ask - what time GMT is the Chat at the weekend ? (And which day ?)

Michele

Michele michele@sassoonery.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 26 13:12:57 PST 1999

Hi gang !

Boy have you all been busy with this board... I checked it this morning before starting my essay - but told myself I had to write my essay before I posted here - and you've gone and chucked another 20-odd messages up - by 20-odd I mean 20 plus not 20 "odd messages" - just before someone gets offended on me... I think that's an Anglicism saying "20-odd" when one means "20-plus" - sorry ! Anyway where was I ? Oh yes... I've written a 1200-word critical analysis of Robert Frost's "Mending Wall" - and I think it is good... but what would I know ? Anyone here desperate enough to want to read it ? No ? How sensible ! Actually I wouldn't want to inflict my inane ramblings on anyone - which is why you'll never find any posts from me in the Workbook - as a non-fiction writer I'd feel like an intruder in the Workbook - I feel enough of an intruder here !

Anyway, I talked to an English tutor of mine who marked the last essay I wrote and he told me that if I'd slightly reworded one or two things I'd probably have had nearer an "A" instead of the "B" I had - doesn't that just stink ?! So I am going to rewrite the dratted thing and see what he suggests - he won't remark it but I want to see if it's then worth that "A"...

Oh well enough already, time for to go read the paper and find out what happened yesterday before it's tomorrow... !

BFN, Michele

The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed. -- Albert Einstein

Thomas booklink@ptd.net Fri Feb 26 12:40:15 PST 1999

I have no idea if this message will get through. The board is loaded and when that happens my Netscape crashes whenever I try to post.

Hal, I mean Agsousa,

Mainstream fiction? What's that? I thought there was fiction and there was fiction. When I write a short story (fiction) is that mainstream or am I once again swimming against the flow?

Lena,

Do not take what I say to "heart". I am toying with you. I did not expect you to know of the song, Hey Lena. It is one of those obscure R & B cuts of the nineteen fifties that only a music junkie of the period would know of it -- I am guilty of never having suffered a fifties R & B jones.

Eddie,

Emailed you about the chat. If it is 4 or 5 pm Saturday, New York time, I can be there. But remember the Mac version of ICQ allows for no color selections. All I have is white background and black font. We had trouble with that the last time I got on the chat. Since then, Rhoda and I have had many chats, black on white.

Must get back to my work on a short story (mainstream?) for which I believe I have a ready market.

I am going to try to post this now, so let us pray...

Hootie MHooten@csw.L-3com.com Fri Feb 26 12:30:10 PST 1999

Lena—I know I’m a little late, but here’s my story: when I was four, my older sister (who had just started first grade) thought it would be really neat to teach her baby brother (me) the things she was learning. And so I learned to read, and loved it, which really annoyed her because she never did. As for writing... I’m not sure which book first inspired me, but I’ve been doing it as long as I can remember, and a good book still makes me want to write.

Agsousa—I have promised my wife a “mainstream” novel for years (she hates fantasy), but I have never gotten to it. I sometimes feel like you, only the other way around: I *could* write a mainstream novel, but have never been inspired enough.

Goodweed—Tell Gwty that if she doesn’t behave, we’ll satirize her. It probably won’t be as effective for us as it was for the ancient bards, but we can try. And BTW, I finished my one and (so far) only novel while overseas on a Ticonderoga class cruiser.

Rachel—Tell your son to start posting to the Notebook. We always need the experienced voice of published writers.

For all those with unfinished stories/books/ideas—I keep all of my scraps in a file (well, closer to a drawer, now), and when I feel particularly uninspired, I go and read through it. It always surprises me what I’ve come up with in the past, and how good it is, but at the same time, it lets me see how much the actual writing has improved (or how bad it used to be, for all you pessimists).

Howard—Get plenty of rest, and get better soon. We miss you around here.

“If my doctor told me I had six months left to live, I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster.”—Issac Asimov

Lydia Sweet lydiasweet@yahoo.com Fri Feb 26 12:23:05 PST 1999

Agsousa,

Sorry, romance. Contemporary, historical and time travel. I don't have a subject that drives me to write mainstream.
I don't think I have a "Dangerous Minds" or "Clear and Present Danger" in me, at least not at this point in my life.

All,

I wish I were able to join the ICQ, but I only have access to the computer at work and the model I have is not capable of handling the ICQ. If anyone decides to use the JAVA chat on Excite let me know. I do have access to their chat area.

Lydia,

If you think prison is hard, try going to work everyday.

S.K.S. Perry naejin16@hotmail.com Fri Feb 26 11:42:55 PST 1999

Agsousa,

I never dared you to write one in a day. I just dared you to write one, and get it published in the North American market.

S.N. Arly,

I can't tell you how many great ideas I've lost (really, I can't) because I thought, "Hey, I'll remember this one. Ya, right. My inspirations usually don't come from my dreams, but I do find that in the wee hours of the morning, when I've just woken up and am lazing in bed before I have to drag myself out of it, that I'm am the most creative. Things just come together for me then.

"My Zen instructor asked me to show him the sound of one hand clapping--so I slapped him!"

Be Well, Live Well.

S.N.Arly moobeast@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~moobeast Fri Feb 26 11:23:54 PST 1999

Marv - Many writers have learned the computer lesson the hard way. I had those nasty old 5" floppies go bad on me on a regular basis in the days before I learned how to defrag. I also came exremely close to losing my first novel when my house was broken into and my computer was stolen. Now I keep a backup at my parents house, and my own backup and hard copies don't live in the same place.

Howard - Ouch. Hope you're feeling better soon. Which ones did they fuse and what the heck did you do to yourself to begin with? Gonna do some heavy PT after recovery?

Litter - Ever been to Clannada na Gadelica? It's my favorite site.

On chat - Must decline. Maybe next time.

Off topic (what is the topic anyway?) - I had this really wonderful horrible idea last night just as I was falling asleep. What a spectacular story it would make, though I'm a little alarmed that the idea came out of MY head. It was so vivid, I thought I'd remember it in the morning, and I didn't really want to share the it with my spouse and dog. They might lock me up for the night.

But this morning all I could remember was that I'd had this great dark story idea. Nothing about it. This is why I keep a notebook by my bed, I kept telling myself this morning. What was I thinking, not writing it down... oh yah, can't write. So partway through typing up a letter at work I remembered. It really is the sort of idea most writers prefer to toss back into the pit, so I must have been trying to hide it. May be my next story. We'll see.

S.N.Arly
"Be like the water."

agsousa agsousa@esoterica.pt Fri Feb 26 11:17:23 PST 1999

Howard: Welcome back. I have been *joking* with the Celtic blood and Litter in particular. The *gloves* were metaphorical. I hope you recover quickly.

Eddie/Perry: All those hours for chats seem too complicated to me. I never said I would be able to write a sci.f. novel in a single day. I said I could write one "any day" —i.e., sometime.

I came here to post two more chapters of my *1981* novel. But I see that Eddie has posted a new chapter of his work and I don't want to come upon him. Sometime in the future, perhaps.

Thomas: I'm not Hal but you have an interesting way of putting things and therefore I like you.

ALL: isn't there a single soul here that writes mainstream fiction as well? I feel very lonely indeed among you, ladies and gentleman

See you sometime, folks. Happy week-end.

S.K.S. Perry naejin16@hotmail.com Fri Feb 26 10:23:12 PST 1999

Hey all,

I just got back from the gym. I found out that a buddy of mine that I work out with there ocasionally won 250,000 dollars on the Ontario lottery wednesday. That's tax free in Canada. As he said to another friend, it's not enough to retire on (he's only 35) but it's enough to keep him stress free for the rest of his life. (Well, at least from financial worries, which is a major part of most peoples stress in one way or another.)

Be Well, Live Well.

Lena feylena@hotmail.com Fri Feb 26 08:54:10 PST 1999

I stand corrected. After thinking it over, I do have one (male) friend who writes. He is currently writing a novel in which he is the ruler of the world... make of it what you will, he is strange. I also have a friend who swears "Moby Dick" is his favorite book and loves quoting "Moby Dick" at odd moments. And so I prove my own theory wrong.

Oh, and I had fun reading everyone's life story. Very interesting.

Thomas - I've never heard that song, and I have never before been accused of "playing with male hearts." I'm still trying to decide how to take that one! But I do enjoy asking (pardon the pun) provocative questions and getting involved in debates... be it with a male or female heart!

I have not written anything in My Story for nigh on a week, this is beginning to bother me. I hit a natural lull in the story and I can't seem to write anything. Really, really bothersome. I know eventually I will find the right sentence and the words will pour out (it happens this way for me) but in the meantime I am stuck staring at my computer screen with nothing to add. Enough to drive an author crazy.

Crazy? I was crazy once. They put me in a round room...
-Lena

S.K.S. Perry naejin16@hotmail.com Fri Feb 26 06:28:10 PST 1999

Hey all,

Marv, The White Mountains was one of the first books (a series actually) that I read also. I was in grade five when I did, and our school librarian was smart enough to point out that I should read War of the Worlds first.

Once I got hooked on reading, there was no stopping me. I'd get really caught up in the stuff too. I'd read before classes, between classes, sometimes even during classes if the subject matter bored me. I could tune out everything around me and get lost in the world of my books. Once my grade six teacher interrupted my reading to ask me what I'd got on the spelling test, to which I replied, "What spelling test?" I'd managed to read right through it, even though they'd handed out papers and the kids had taken them up right after the test!

Eddie, If I'm not mistaken, you are proposing the Chat for sometime around 4-5pm Saturday afternoon my time (EST) which is good for me.

We haven't heard anything from Agsousa for a bit. Maybe he took up the challenge?

Be Well, Live Well.

Goodweed of the North bflowers@northernway.net Fri Feb 26 04:34:20 PST 1999

Lena; My first written work came when I was a third grader. I wrote a short western and earned an "A" for my efforts. It was based on a comic book I sometimes read called "The Two Gun Kid". Comics were my first books and I read them voraciously as a child. I graduated to ny first novel, a SF work called "Doppleganger" at the age of twelve. After that first novel, there was no holding me back.

I didn't try writing again though, until I was 20 or so years of age. I then wrote a short science fiction story.

I didn't seriously write anything else until I was in my early thirties floating on an aircraft carrier somewhere in the Pacific Ocean. I started my first fantasy then. I put it aside after the cruise. Life and family took up all my time. Then, when in University, I decided to finish the novel (about 36 years old then) and have been writing ever since. I'm still not published. I haven't put in much effort there. My story has to be as close to perfect as I can get it before I'll send it out.

I have written a fair share of poetry as well.

Got to go. Work raises it's ugly voice and beckons. I hate being a slave to the corporate need for profit (and the government neet for taxes).

To quote my favorite movie line (as stated by Mel Gibson),
"I don't make life complicated. It gets that way all by itself."

Sorry for the bit of negativity. My fifteen year-old son is being selfish and unreasonable again, and has started a fight with his 12 year-old sister who responds with the same. The definition of discouraged = my teenagers.

Seeeeeeya; Goodweed of the North

Marv maikens@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu Fri Feb 26 00:19:08 PST 1999

Lena- I started reading regularly at about 6 or 7, I read mostly children's novels. What really got me into reading was John Christopher's "The White Mountains" (yes, I know titles are underlined, but this is the best I can do). I must have been 12 when I read that. By the way, I'm 19 now. When I was 14 the combination of "Dune" and "Red Mars" (still today my favorite book) inspired me to write. Quickly I churned out a novel and handed it in to my english teacher, who said he generally was not a fan of science fiction, but this was good. Since then I've had probably a dozen ideas that I've written on, but only one finished novel, although I got about 150 pages into one.

Jack Beslanwitch jack@forwriters.com Thu Feb 25 23:39:07 PST 1999

I have a 20 inch Q100 Viewsonic myself. I am quite pleased with it, but I am waiting with baited breath for some of the flat screen thin monitors to fall even further down in price to where I can justify the cost. When they hit $1000 for an 18 inch viewable area I will start itching. BTW, it has not happened yet, but when I start noticing that webwitch.com has moved to its new digs on the databases from here in Seattle, I will ask those of you off our North American shores to check and see if http://www.webwitch.com/checkthis.html is viewable. It is a dummy file I set up only on that server. I am still trying to decide whether to move the Notebook back there or just leave it here. I will keep everyone posted.
Let me know on the ICQ Chat. I will post the time there when it is decided upon. One thing I would like to point out if I have not already, one of the features of the new server is a JAVA Chat Room up to 10 people. It does come with a banner ad, but one the heck. When webwitch.com has moved, I will set that up as an alternate area to try getting together on. As I think I also mentioned, the programming team for Westercon 52 has been meeting once a week or so on a chatroom on Excite. Take care all and I will try to get around to archiving here. The slowness that someone mentioned is due to this locale getting up over 150k. Bon Appetit.

:-)

Clyde Dixon noxid@mailexcite.com Thu Feb 25 22:19:06 PST 1999

A 17" monitor, at last! OK, so it's my wife's and I just get to try it out for a month--a Viewsonic G773. Seems big enough. I had been thinking of getting a 19". Anyone have any reccommendations on sizes, brands, or models to buy or to avoid? I'll use it for graphics, programming, and writing.

More new people! Always great to see that this is a living and evolving place. Like Xavier, I too have tons of stories scribbled on various scraps of paper, and I sometimes loose interest in a story if I think it through too much and leave nothing else to discover in the writing process. It is a delicate balance, enough thinking and planning to start writing, enough mystery to keep it interesting.

I really enjoy thinking up and developing ideas, but I tend to do this when it is impossible for me to write. Then sometimes when I do try and run with a fresh idea, I run into the "unknown" and have to start thinking and planning more. Frustrating, I just can't tell when the idea is at the correct point to start the "writing." My pile of scraps is developing nicely though.

Good Writing,
CAD

Rachel danolson@sprint.ca Thu Feb 25 20:32:04 PST 1999

Hey all

GUESS WHAT!!!!!! Somebody in my house got published!

Not me, but my youngest son. He printed up his story and he sent it off to his kids writing club and it was printed in the local paper.

I think that is so cool.

That is all I've got to say for now.

Take care all

Rachel

Ashling jwbear@bellsouth.net Thu Feb 25 20:00:36 PST 1999

EDDIE & JAI --- Thanks for your ICQ willingness & the math work (my worst subject). 4pm (16:00) Central time is fabulous for me. I can flex to anytime Saturday or Sunday afternoon, or after midnight, you know -- 1am Sunday or Monday mornings.

Eddie, I emailed you my ICQ # ... Let me know if I need to do something out of the ordinary to authorize this chat line ... This is virgin territory for me.

Will post my profound thoughts to all later tonight ... Okay, okay, my ramblings then. Enough thinking about writing --- my goal of two pages a day of rewrites beckons.

Take care,
Ashling

Rhoda rfort@ren.net http://www.angelfire.com/nm/goldenpen Thu Feb 25 19:36:31 PST 1999

Ed, Jai, Thomas, SKS, and all,

The chat times sound good to me. I will be at church Sunday morning provided one of my children doesn't get sick. Saturday moring is good and so is Saturday night or even the wee am hours of Sunday. I want badly to be in on this chat, but if Sunday morning works out best for most people, no problem. I'll try to make the next one. I think we should try it and see what happens. You'll never find a time when everyone will make it, but as long at least a few show up, it is worth while.

Lena,

I know many men who write. The men in the last writer's group I belonged to numbered just under half, and some of them were quite young. I read a column by Peggy Noonan a few weeks ago where she talked about the deplorable performance of boys in school compared to girls. The cover story in US NEWS AND WORLD REPORT recently was about how girls in US colleges now outnumber boys. More boys drop out of school than ever before, and many of them don't even try to go to college. Perhaps what you are observing is a generational thing. When I was in school, there was no lack of scholarly boys who read and wrote. I don't think it is inherently a male trait to be borish and intellectually lazy until maturity. Modern feminism has supposedly been so apt on concentrating on girls and seeing that they succeed that boys are ignored.

Well, I've used up my wise quotes for the day.

Happy writing,

Rhoda

howard howard_tuckey@ibm.net Thu Feb 25 19:32:57 PST 1999

Hi all! Thanks for the prayers and goot thoughts! Things did get a bit complicated, and I'm not feeling up to writing at all yet. Can't even really see my keyboard, c
'cause I can't bend my neck. They had to fuse 4 vertebrae with a 7cm metal plate and pieces of bone from my hip, and had to do some radical temporary relocation of minor things like carotid artery, jugular vein, trachea and esophagus in order to do it. Had a bad reaction to anesthesia, and now can't swallow anything. Dr says it will take a few days longer to heal, but I was able to come home almost on schedule -- only 6 hours later. This new health insurance is amazing! Surgery at 8:30 am on Tuesday, check out at 8PM on Wednesday!
More later -- Oh, and more about my brand-new grandson too! Stephen Patrick (good Celtic name there, eh Litter?) born at 12:11 MST (in Arizona) 2/25/99. I get to see him as soon as I can travel!
Lots to be thankful for!
howard

Thu Feb 25 18:31:11 PST 1999

Hi All,

Agsousa -

“Litter: Where is your celtic blood? I've been waiting for you in the box ring with my best pair of gloves — and nothing.”

Celtic Blood is much misunderstood. We are a passionate and hospitable people who take offence only when provoked by something we regard worthy of our energy and our disdain. Have you done this? I didn’t notice. And what’s this about gloves? I don’t think gloves would be an option. It was not gloves that made ‘the heids o’ mony a Sassenach tae dance.’ The word Sassenach does not just apply to the English!

Even the Portuguese would find a welcome in Scotland, provided they were civil and courteous. As we say ‘Ceud Mile Failte!’

The most worthy thing I ever herd was from the lips of an alcoholic street-sweeper just a few short weeks before he fell asleep under the wheels of a bus:

“You ken son, if you don’t say anything, no-one ever listens!” Worthy, well I’ve changed my mind, this is profound!!!

All Good Things,

Litter

Eddie French eddiefrench@email.com Thu Feb 25 17:50:37 PST 1999

Jai,
Sorry for not responding earlier to your efforts at setting up a chat date. 10pm gmt would be 17:00 on the eastern Seaboard. That's tea time. 16:00 central (I think), still tea time. (For school kids) and 14:00 est. If I'm not wrong that's about 9-10 am for you Sunday morning. I'm willing to shift a bit on this. I'm sure we can get a consensus in the next 24 hours. (I'm not being awkward Jai, I am just thinking of the quality of our time online. Sometimes I go online and find people who are also online and because of the timing I can't endulge in chat. That makes me think that my friends online think that I am trying to avoid them and that makes me feel guilty for no good reason)
I am prepared to open the chat room anytime between 10pm and 2am Sat/sun coming. Anyone who finds that inconvenient please post early. I am flexible.
Later,
Ed

Thomas booklink@ptd.net Thu Feb 25 17:28:19 PST 1999

Hey Lena,

When I was in my teens -- so long, so long ago -- there was a doo wop song titled, Hey Lena. It was about a girl who toyed with the boys' hearts. I assume you are toying with our male hearts with your observation about us.

I began writing as soon as I could, and was encouraged to write by teachers who said they saw talent; the latter was when I was twelve. I have never stopped writing since. I think I read anything that was stuck under my nose when I was in my youth. Hope I have more sense to be selective now that I am a so-called adult.

Rhoda,

Who's Bill and Monica? I must have slept through something.

Eddie,

Thanks for that rather long and incomprehensible reply about ICQ. I'll take your word for it, whatever it is.
As for your response to Agsousa, it is wasted and I figured out why. Agsousa issues challenges becasue he is not really a person -- he is a computer like Hal, toying with us. Maybe he and Lena are in on the conspiracy?

I am not paranoid, and even if I am, why shouldn't I be with all these computer people against me? No, no, no I don't want to wear that jacket...don't let them...no, no

Eddie French eddie french@email.com Thu Feb 25 17:07:08 PST 1999

Lena:
Missed that last one as I was compiling my last offline.
I learned to read fluently at a very early age (I think I was somewhere between 3-5 years old. I started writing at about 9 years old. I will always remember my first 'Novel' It was 10 pages of hand written script. It was the story of a young child (Me, I suppose) who got on the school bus one morning and instead of going to school, the bus carried on past and ended up careering off the pier ( I lived in a port at the time) and into the sea. The child was suprised to find that he could breath under water and immediately made friends with a magnificent dolphin. (We) had an adventure and still got to school on time. That's me in 'Them Bones', but with skin.
Later,
Ed

Eddie French eddiefrench@email.com Thu Feb 25 16:48:25 PST 1999

Howard, if you are lurking but don't feel well enough to post yet, get well soon. good luck mate.
Steve Thanks yet again, you drive me back to work at least once a week.
I will finish something
I will finish something.
X100
Five words to describe myself, or was it four?
Honest, (The most popular polled) Distant?, Strange, Loving, Loyal, and lastly 'Dad' ????
Surprising really, as the words 'I' would have chosen are:
Intelligent, Creative, Introspective, Responsible and Honest.

Thomas:
You volunteered to test the common chat room on ICQ. We have yet to do a full test of all of the features but it seems to work anyway. I suppose we will find problems as they appear. Being the chat host means that I have two ICQ numbers. One for personal use and one for the chat room. When you see NoteBook Chat online in your ICQ window that is me online. When you see Ed in your ICQ window, that is also me online. I have to change the registered user in the 'Security' option to switch between the two. It gets confusing sometimes because I have to manage two contact lists. You are all on my Personal List and the Chat list. The benefit of having the chat list is that the 'host' of the chat can go offline and not interupt the current chat session. It appears that if we were chatting on a personal ICQ chat server instigated by a particular member and that member got dropped by their server, then the chat would fall apart. With the chat (NoteBook) ICQ server in action then the other participants of the chat session would carry on chatting until the last member drops out.
That's how I see it anyway, according to the Mirabilis blurb.
Agsousa:
You are at it again, being dynamic and provoking! OK. Go ahead, write a science fiction/fantasy novel in a day! We would be happy to give you an honest crit. But it will have to be in by Saturday morning. (You can't really win you know, because if you do it then we will know that it is an old one. Then the game would be over for you. You would have shown yourself to be a closet sf writer.)
I have posted yet another piece to the Novel Workshop. It is the story with the strange opening chapter which nobody got. I have ommitted the first chapter and dropped a sub plot. The story now concentrates on the Highland Warrior, Jamie, and it goes a lot further, delving back into his time in the Highlands of Scotland and then into the (almost) meeting with Myriam, the Crell Oracle. Anyway...see what you think. (Don't let the fact that Myriam is married deter you.)
I have a lot more of this tale in hand but I am working hard to edit out the sub plot. This gives me problems in dealing with Myriams ancestral roots but I'm sure I'll get through it. I was to be a SF/F crossover but I'm steadily removing the tech stuff.
That will be a story in itself anyway so no great loss (I hope!)
I should have added Exhausted to my list of descriptives earlier. I could not begin to do a word count of my production over the last few weeks, but who's complaining! Get it while it's going I say.
Enough of me for now.
Later,
Ed

Jai Thu Feb 25 16:41:34 PST 1999

Heya,

Lena you are wrong! Perhaps most men don't get in touch with their muses until they are older but not all. I began writing at 15 and have been loving it ever since.

Marv, I'm a Fantasy/SF though Fantasy is my passion. Welcome.

Xavier,
Perhaps you should try writing without an outline. Try creating an interesting character and an imaginative world then let things come as they come. Don't think ahead just write about what is happening at the time. When you sit down to write, let the present moment of the world sink into your mind before seeing what comes. This may help keep your interest.

Hootie, Lena - I found lord of the Rings slow as well when I read if for the second time but it still poseses moments of brilliance. I much prefer The Hobbit though.

Chat! OK since nobody else is game to actually organize a time ( Rohda! ) 8am Sydney standard time, 10pm GMT, 4pm CST... ( Sorry agsousa this is midnight for you ). The best day is probably sat/sun, sunday for those in Australia, saterday arvo for those in America and Saterday night for those in the UK/Europe ( possibly early sunday morning )

Can you tell I've had to orginise this sort of thing before? I just hope that the other Australians here don't mind an early start on a sunday morning.

So how does that time sound to everyone? That's in just two days....

Jai

S.K.S. Perry naejin16@hotmail.com Thu Feb 25 16:30:02 PST 1999

Hey all,

Lena, the first real book I ever read was Tarzan, by Edgar Rice Burroughs. I was nine, and immediately saved all my allowance so I could buy the other 25 books in the series. I wrote my first story when I was ten. It was supposed to be a class assignment of at least 200 words. I handed in a SF story about overpopulation and gov't enforced birth control in the U.S. and a young couple's attempt to flee to Canada so they could keep their child. It came in at over 5000 words and I got an A. My teacher framed it because she "just knew I'd be famous some day." We're both still waiting on that one.

That pretty much started me down the SF and Fantasy trail, although I did read a lot of animal adventure stories (Big Red, about an Irish Setter--can't remeber the author, but it was a series; Ring of Bright Water, about otters, Owls in the Attic--Farley Mowatt; and just about anything by Jack London.

That intelligent enough for ya!

Be Well, Live Well.

Lena feylena@hotmail.com Thu Feb 25 16:10:45 PST 1999

On writers not being all that common... and for all those who are male on this site...

When did you discover your love for writing? Most of the teenage guys I know don't know the front of a book from the back of one, not saying they are not very intelligent, just not literary-oriented. Did you write as a young man? I have this strange feeling that men don't get in touch with their inner muse until they get older... am I wrong or right?

"If you have to hit someone, hit low."
-Lena

Marv maikens@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu Thu Feb 25 15:30:59 PST 1999

Hey, sounds good.

Agsousa- What I meant about about my novel is that I got to about 100 pages and then my roommate made it to where I have to rewrite them. Don't ask me how, he's a computer engineering major and the whole process is really technical (or at least I guess it is). I made sure to put everything in hardcopy, just in case something like this happened. Yeah, I know I should have put it on another disc, but what can ya do? Live and learn I guess. So the novel remains at about 100 pages. This is just as well I guess since I'm at a critical point and have to do alot of thinking and plotting to go on.

As for the guidelines of chat here, it all sounds fine to me. I get tired too of hearing about the witch hunt going on in our nation's capital and I tend to get myself into trouble talking about religion anyway, so it's just as well. And hey, now I have some people to talk to about writing, we're not all that common, ya know.

Marv maikens@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu Thu Feb 25 15:30:55 PST 1999

Hey, sounds good.

Agsousa- Wh

Allein Lunika@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Thu Feb 25 14:26:03 PST 1999

Well, the rain is gone and Mr. Sun has come out to smile upon us - but some streets are still flooded.

Lemmie think - four words to describe me. Crazy, kind, thinking, perfectionist. There, that wasn't so hard - yeah, I had to sit and think about it for like 5 minutes. :)

Well, I have a project that due tomorrow that I haven't even started on. So, I gotta go.
Bai bai,
Allein

Number of days till Allein turns 17: Eight (I'm thrilled).

S.K.S. Perry naejin16@hotmail.com Thu Feb 25 14:08:15 PST 1999

Ok, for S.N. Arly. How do I perceive myself using my own four words? indomitable, loyal, multifaceted, bored.

Be Well, Live Well.

Hootie MHooten@csw.L-3com.com Thu Feb 25 13:28:10 PST 1999

Lena--I am also reading "The Lord of the RIngs" right now, but it's my first time. I've attempted it several times before, but Tolkein has been copied so many times that now he feels almost hackneyed. It also moves at a much slower pace than most current novels, and so I battle my impatience as well.

"A closed mouth gathers no feet."

Lena feylena@hotmail.com Thu Feb 25 12:30:21 PST 1999

Hullo all!

Agsousa - Have no fear, my creative writing teacher does not attempt to make us to conform to conventional literary devices. My creative writing teacher does not even attempt to teach us anything. She just hands out assignments, gives us a due date, and tells the class to be quiet and write something. I now have a free hour every day to do whatever I want, be it writing an essay, composing a poem, pondering my own story, or just thinking. Some days I take down a thesaurus and look for words that spark my interest; other days I will spend hitting my head on the desk as I attempt to think of words that rhyme (poetry and I, let me tell you, we do not get along). It is an agreeable situation (although my head sure does hurt somedays!).

Marv - I generally write fantasy. I will read anything I can get my greedy little hands on.

At the moment I am re-reading "The Lord of the Rings." I read the books once, when I was younger, but I did not remember much of them besides the fact that I loved the story. Now that I am older and wiser and more lovely and intelligent and... well. Quite enough of that. It is amazing to see how many of the fantasy cliches that have developed came out of "The Lord of the Rings," how many of the little ideas and even plot lines can be traced in that story. Ignoring the fact that it's a really good story, I am glad I am reading Tolkien again if only to catch myself from falling into the pattern of writing fantasy exactly as Tolkien did.

Xavier - I can relate to that lonely feeling you get as a writer. Fortunately, I found someone (in real life, even!) how writes as I do, and we sit and talk and dream and talk and write and talk... and have I mentioned talking? Well, it helps. This board helps too, but for different reasons - I get to listen in on discussions on insanity and dreaming, how to develop characters and tension, the meaning of words and getting published. I have learned so much, and not only about writing.

No quote from me today - sorry!
-Lena

S.N.Arly moobeast@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~moobeast Thu Feb 25 11:37:16 PST 1999

Oops. That was me.

Say Jack. Posts seem to be really delayed in coming up. Should we be concerned?

S.N.Arly

Thu Feb 25 11:35:47 PST 1999

Casey - Brooklyn's Ambassadors of Love! Yes! I'm saving up for a piece of string.

SKS - But how you percieve you and how others percieve you aren't the same. Some of my karate students think I'm rather graceful. Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

I believe a well-known SF writer once mocked fantasy as being rather easy to write. He was offered a challange similar to the one you granted Agsousa. Several months later he apologized, having realized that fantasy isn't any easier to write than SF. In fact no one kind of writing is really any easier than another. One might feel easier because it's where your interests lay, but that's all.

Thomas - In the writing world, it's hard not to get a bit cynnical from time to time.

Agsousa/Amerigo - I find color distracting. In fact I've painted everything in my house a nice uniform beige. Even the dog. I never learned to color coordinate, afterall.

I'm sure we've come up with plenty of good things since the... er... media-zation of Norma Jean. We've got the Corvette, don't you know. And our home grwon physical therapy equipment rocks.

Piss-ye? Think I miss something in the translation? That i-smash mouse may look neato in purple (or berry or whatever they call it) but it's damn uncomfortable to use.

Marv - I write mostly SF & F with a smattering of straight fiction and horror. Likewise that's mostly what I read, too. I prefer to write novella or novel length, but have been focusing on shorts for the past two years.

Xavier - Writers are creative and complex people. It makes sense that we could be two things that are polar opposites.

S.N.Arly
In the grand tradition of St. Paul, gleefully ad hoc about everything

Xavier ek282789@hvcc.edu Thu Feb 25 10:58:46 PST 1999

Hello again fellow writers!

Being fairly new to this board myself, I would like to welcome Marv. As to his question about my writing preferances, I would have to say that I mostly write drama, with a tragicly- romantic bent. I have the outlines for 8 novels and about 4 short stories in various stages of disrepair and non- completion. I also like to write comic- book stories, mostly serious ones geared twoards an older crowd. I have about 20 outlines for them as well. I am published monthly in a magazine about comics, but this work is commentary, not fictional. Manly, I get fired up on ideas, begin an outline, solve the entire story in my head, then loose interest and put it aside. Some books are 100 or more pages, some are scribbles of ideas on old paper or napkins. I think part of my apathy to finish a story sometimes is the fear of failure. I have convinced myself so well that i'll never be happy in life if I'm not a writer, that I'm afraid to do it. Kind of an odd situation. the urge to create, however, NEVER leaves me, and I feel empty unless doing it.
As for describing myself with 4 words, they would be: Creative, lonely, contemplative, and impulsive (I know the last two are opposites!) I'm an odd person, I guess.
I enjoy this board, as it helps give me insight and it helps with the feeling of being alone in a thought or desire.
Its nice to know others are driven too.

See you in the funny papers,

Xavier

S.K.S. Perry naejin16@hotmail.com Thu Feb 25 10:46:20 PST 1999

Hey all,

Agsousa, So you can write a Science Fiction novel any day can you? Well go ahead. I dare you. And then try and get it published in the North American market. You're right, a badly written Sci Fi (sorry Jack) novel is crap, but then isn't any badly written novel crap regardless of genere? Perhaps the challenge for you would be to write a literary Sci Fi novel, where plot and characterization are unimportant. Now that I'd like to read!

Marv, It's probably obvious from my above statement to Agsousa that I write SF and Fantasy, although apparently I cross generes at times and throw in a little Horror or Historical stuff (don't ask me why or how, I haven't a clue.)

And though we prefer literary topics, we often stray and rant about anything and everything, so feel free to tell us how you're day was, or why you hate the colour blue, or about the traumatic experience you had with warts in the third grade--somehow we'll twist it into something to do with writing!

Thomas, Rhoda, and anyone else who's interested. I'm game for ICQ. Usually sometime on the weekend is the best time for me, but I'll make myself available whenever if that's not convenient. (I believe Thomas and Rhoda and I are roughly in the same time zones with maybe an hour or so difference.)

Oh and Thomas, I promise to make snide remarks about Jimmy Soul whenever I'm on stage until he pays you the money he owes you.

Be Well, Live Well.

Rhoda rfort@ren.net http://www.angelfire.com/nm/goldenpen Thu Feb 25 09:21:02 PST 1999

Marv,

There are hardly any restrictions about topics here. Agsousa informed you to avoid religion. Perhaps out of prudence he is right. As a person who once got offended here because of a religious discussion, I encourage you to discuss the topic whenever you wish. I wisely will ignore the topic. Pure and simple. I don't have the stomach for it and I admit that, but I will not encourage others to stay away from topics simply because I am sometimes too emotional.

Jack has said before that this is a Bill and Monica free zone. Please respect that. So far that is the only tabu here.

Happy Writing!

Rhoda

agsousa agsousa@esoterica.pt Thu Feb 25 08:29:04 PST 1999

Marv : You asked if this is a sort of writers' forum. It is indeed, but a very special one. Here no one thinks he/she is better than the others. We are all great writers and therefore we know that everyone is the best, congratulations. You can't be a decent writer without being a man or a woman before. That's why we freely discuss everything, from wines (Tom is the expert) to the *Piss-Ye* (SN Arly kisses one every morning). You don't know what a *piss-ye* is, though you probably use one: it's an object trying to imitate the *smash-an-toss*, but ugly, vulgar and obscene. I myself used three of them before converting to the true religion.

Religion is a nice topic here, but you better stay away from that. As a Portuguese I'm a catholic, though I don't swear on any thing created by the human mind. We are limited and so is our religion. There are no absolute truths, but don't tell that to Howard, who is recovering from a light surgery on the neck and has Moawk blood in his veins. Send him a word instead, telling him that we are all praying, in our own humble, awkward way, to his quick recovery. Don't use acronims like IMHO, BTW, BRB, MOMPL, RL, VI, RSN, IC,4ME, but you can use LOL from time to time for the sake of Jack. There are no special conditions to be a member of this wonderful group, except: not to be a fascist (you can be one for a second but you'll be immediatelly smashed by evidence and my neighbour's cat's paws), not to be extremely patriotic (though you can say, if you are American, that you live in the land of the free — we like a good laugh here in Europe), and not to be a technoid : as writers we love beautiful words and hate the ugly ones.

You also asked something about literature. May I address you to the archives? Try reading the posts from the 16th January on. Some writers here like fantasy and science fiction, but they privately confess that mainstream literature is their absolute dream. I just like literature, that's all, and don't believe in separate genres. I can write a science-fiction novel any day, though I prefer dealing with the everyday, earthly tastes, noises, smells, colours or problems. A badly written science-fiction story is just crap (most of them are); a beautifully written text is wonderful, though without story, plot, characters, climax, dénouement and all those artificial elements, useful for average writers but dispensable for artists. Language, the wind, rain, a hole, the dimensions of your room, the eyes of a woman or the texture of her skin are the ideal subjects for contemporary fiction. I won't give examples of great novels having such diaphanous things as themes, but I am positive that I am not talking about poetry — it's about fiction I am talking about. But now I'm addressing this forum in general and not you in particular, Mav. People here are all very stubborn and, because of ignorance or tendency, don't accept evident European trends, so old as the century. But you'll see, in ten or twenty years, that Allein will be one of the greatest American writers, and his future book about the softness of a cat's fur will be awarded the Nobel Prize, while Lena, the great best-seller, will not be accepted outside little Montana or whatever state she will be working in— until she forgets everything she is learning now in laughable creative writing courses and invent her own kind of fiction : something she will do, I'm sure.

Rhoda rfort@ren.net http://www.angelfire.com/nm/goldenpen Thu Feb 25 08:14:57 PST 1999

Lena,

Here goes. I'll not cop out this time. I will try to decribe myself in four words. Passionate, Disorganized, Sensitive (in the sense that I tend to wear my feelings on my sleeve), and Optimistic. If I weren't optimistic, I wouldn't be writing. I'd have given up long ago.

Marv,

I read history and historical romance. I write historical romance. The two books I've written have been set in Dark Age Britain shortly after the fall of the Roman Empire. I have a life-long interest in King Arthur and I use him as the backdrop in my novels. Now I am trying to tackle a Regency novel. My goal is to write one or two shorter, lighter more marketable novels this year.

Ashling,

I hope you can get on to ICQ. I am intrigued that you are writing a story taking place in Ancient Ireland, and I would like to know more about it. I too stay up late at night if I have indulged in too many caffinated beverages during the day. I would enjoy chatting anytime.

Agsousa,

I have your number now.

Thomas and S.K.S.,

I would love to have a group chat. Let's just do it. Someone announce a time and I'll try to be available.

I did three pages on a new novel yesterday. Hurray! Now I had better go so I can build some momentum.

"If you see a bandwagon, it's too late." Sir James Goldsmith.

Rhoda

Thomas booklink@ptd.net Thu Feb 25 07:04:13 PST 1999

Damned computers. I hate them and I hate them more -- crashed just as I was sending a profound notebook message.

Who was it brought up the word "Jones"? We used that word to mean withdrawal or need for drugs just before I withdrew from my youth in the early nineteen sixties. We used to tag a "dope fiend" and there were plenty in Brooklyn back then, with the phrase, "he's on a jones."

Agsousa-Americo and all the ships at sea,

ICQ 27365230, but I am sure I am on the list.

Caroline,

Got your ICQ message and have authorized. You have been on my list for some time.

Eddie,

I volunteered for something on ICQ a while back. What was that? Anyway, I have in the "Waiting" section that Notebook i.d. you gave us and Mannam. Seems these have not authorized to accept me.

Marv,

Not sure I understood your page 100 problem, but to answer your question: I read history, biography, novels, essays, short stories in magazines and newspapers. I write about wine, food and history, plus business writing, essays and short stories, not to mention those weekly shoping lists that my wife loves to read.

Ashling,

If you were to consume the strength and volume of espresso each morning like I do, you would understand how heightened one's senses becomes. I mean, I went easy on those descriptions.

So, you are counting my posts. I'm getting out of here before I am accused of goldbricking.

Hootie Thu Feb 25 06:48:47 PST 1999

I realized that I forgot to leave a pithy saying before, so here goes (and it descibes me accurately): "I started out with nothing... and I still have most of it." And one for you, Allein: "A day without sunshine is like a day in Seattle."

Hootie Thu Feb 25 06:47:14 PST 1999

I realized that I forgot to leave a pithy saying before, so here goes (and it descibes me accurately): "I started out with nothing... and I still have most of it."

S.K.S. Perry naejin16@hotmail.com Thu Feb 25 06:07:04 PST 1999

Hey all,

Agsousa, I do most of my posting here and E-mail replies during the day when I'm at work. I check the site several times a day. Once I get home, my wife generally hogs all our Internet time. The only time I get on at home is when she's working, which is usually on the weekends. I don't have ICQ set up here at work, but I'll check for your message once I get home. It's 08:52 am here and I'm not off work until 04:00. I'm in Ontario, Canada, which is Eastern Central Time? It's -5:00hrs from GMT. We are on daylight savings time and I'm never quite sure how that effects it (does it add an hour or subract another hour from GMT?)And by the way, I have an excellent sense of humour pal, so fire away.

I'd really like to get on ICQ with a bunch of you folks and set up a real time chat. I usually check to see if anyone is online on ICQ, but unfortunately the only time that I've found someone online, I didn't have time to chat--go figure.

Anyway, this is probably only one of many posts today (it looks to be a slow day at work) so post away Agsousa (or anyone else.) There's a darn good chance I'll get back to you.

Has anyone heard how Howard's doing? He told me he'd probably be back home by Wedensday. I'm sure he knows we're all rooting for him.

Be Well, Live Well.

Hootie MHooten@csw.L-3com.com Thu Feb 25 05:24:25 PST 1999

Ashling and all you other night owls: I usually visit the Notebook first thing in the morning, between 6 and 7 AM MST (that's an hour later than the time at the top of each post). And then I try to visit a couple of more times during the day, but since I only have the internet at work (for now), I can't be on too long.

Marv--I write mostly fantasy, but I try to read a little of everything.

Agsousa--I am reading (and enjoying) your novel. And one of these days, I will get mine posted, too. Promise.

agsousa agsousa@esoterica.pt Thu Feb 25 04:51:02 PST 1999

This page has become rather slow since yesterday even on my G3/300. The postings are also less frequent. What gives?

Jay: it's high noon here. A very good day to you.

Eddie: I'm up and running on the ICQ. Similar to AOL instant messenger, I guess. I sent a message to you. No reply yet. I suppose I need buddies, now. My ICQ nº is 32179200. I hope this is not a secret. I'm against nicknames and all that. Everybody should use his/her proper name on the Internet — that would avoid a lot of evils. I'm probably naive, of course.

Marv: I think I have something to talk to with you on the subject "novel writing". I have to read your message again, later. I'm in a hurry now.

SN Arly: My neighbor's cat woke me up this morning saying that he is gooing to buy a "Piss-Ye". What the hack does he mean? I recomended him a smash-an-toss instead. He didn't seem convinced.

Tom: I didn't find you on the ICQ list. Need to check better.

Perry: I also sent you a message ICQwise (?).

Well, everybody, I need buddies. Kisses all around.

Ashling jwbear@bellsouth.net Thu Feb 25 04:48:43 PST 1999

ALLEIN .. CASEY .. HOOTIE .. LYDIA .. MICHELE .. RHODA .. S.K.S. & S.N. --- Hi ya! Anyone lurking? Hello & welcome.

AGSOUSA --- You're welcome to all the words you need or want. I'll peek at your novel post tomorrow.

JACK --- : ) : ) !!! If your wife & my husband ever meet, they can co-write a horror novel about us.

JAI --- I stay up until dawn in Central time zone of USA, but except for Jack & an occasional wandering insomniac, I never see ANYONE around here. Rather like conversing with ghosts ... yes, feels very lonely many nights.

LENA --- Affectionate, Creative, Enthusiastic, Smart-Assed.
Great idea of yours ... I'm going to apply this exercise to the bio sketch I write for my characters.

MARV --- I have written: Short Stories = Mainstream & Fantasy. I am writing: Creative Non-Fiction book. I'm researching prior to writing -- True Crime book & Historical Novel set in ancient Ireland. Reading??? You have time to read you lucky devil? Other than research, I try to read somebody humorous once a month, mainly I'm stretching beyond my old favorites, trying new authors.

THOMAS --- Bit of overkill for Java sipped in suburban kitchen ... Thanks anyway. BTW, not to worry --- Looks like you still had room to post 5 times on Wednesday ... But who's counting, right? Some days are like that.

MAY THE MUSE BE WITH YOU ......

Take care,
Ashling

Jack Beslanwitch Thu Feb 25 00:59:24 PST 1999

Well, I called and set up the account. There is really a lot there to digest. However, I suspect that things here will roll along as always. If for some reason there are snafus and you cannot get in, the notebook is secure here at www.halcyon.com/columba/notebook/ Not that I think anything will go wrong, but I subscribe to Frank's Corollary of Murphy's Law. Everyone know 'If it can go wrong it will go wrong and at the worst possible time'. Frank's Corollary is Murphy was an optomist.

Four words that describe myself? Well, let's see. Creative - Procrastinator - Stubborn - Loving

I would probably throw compassionate in there as well. But what the hey. Take care everyone. Between trying to finish the other web site and moving webwitch.com I am a little bit of a busy camper. Just to let everyone know, among the other things that the new server has installed is a JAVA chat room, a keyword search capability and more, much more. This will take some head scratching to work out.

Marv maikens@amilhost.tcs.tulane.edu Wed Feb 24 23:06:45 PST 1999

Hey, that's just four. I guess forgetful too

Marv maikens@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu Wed Feb 24 22:58:45 PST 1999

Jack- Thanks for the help. I didn't get time to look that stuff up cause I have a spanish test somorrow and have to get to sleep. However, maybe tomorrow of this weekend.

I also want to ask what kind of stuff everyone is writing. This is some kind of writers' forum, right? I'm working on a novel which has hit some rough waters around page 100 cause I'm using my roommate's computer and he's been putting it through hell lately. I might as well try this out too, five adjectives to describe me (in order of magnitude) are creative (hopefully, anyway), cynical, persistant, and quiet. Also, what does everyone here read?

Jai Wed Feb 24 18:56:09 PST 1999

agsousa -

I know how your feel. I read this page first thing in the mornings. Then check back when I feel like a break, unfortunatly no one posts in this period. Mainly because it is late night/early morning over in the US of A.

Just take heart in knowing how much more isolated we would be without the notebook.

We need to be brave in this silly, silly world of ours..

Jai

agsousa agsousa@esoterica.pt Wed Feb 24 17:38:35 PST 1999

I suppose everybody is reading Alexander's Betrothal.

"I'm jonesin' real bad" - thanks for that one, Ashling.

agsousa agsousa@esoterica.pt Wed Feb 24 16:24:17 PST 1999

Rhoda: thanks again for your prompt commentary. Sorry if you've received two or three replies: I thought I was online, sent the first, found out I was offline, repeated... that's "Outlook Express" for you — complicated even on a Mac. I wish I had never abandoned my old Remington. But then how could I meet such nice people as you are?

SN Arly: Smash-an-toss, really! Whenever I go to the shop to buy one of those ugly things you use, I always come back with a new...smash-an-toss. Why can't you make them blue, orange, rainbow? Are you colour blind or what? The smash-an-toss is the best thing America has produced since Marylin Monroe. How can one be a good patriot without a smash-an-toss?... (For nothing, Steve)
PS: So you have a sense of humour? I like that, o free man of the land of... (well, today I promised myself to be serious).

Michele: Deranged, hein? I am also a little bit, but only when I write. I think this tells everything about me, Lena.

Ed: Downloaded the ICQ. I'll try to organize the beast when I can. You'll be my first guest in the chat room. Thank you.

Litter: Where is your celtic blood? I've been waiting for you in the box ring with my best pair of gloves — and nothing.

Jai Wed Feb 24 15:55:38 PST 1999

Heya,

Four words, me in a nutshell. I am Serene, compassionate, listless, and thoughtful. Interesting exercise that one.

I always have this problem when writing here. I read everything the forget it all. Now what was I going to say?

Allien - I used to live in a town that had the second highest rainfall in Australia. I loved it when it rained solidly for weeks and all the bridges went under. I love the rain, it is an amazing thing, water falling from the sky, almost divine.

My mother also writes, I've pointed her to this site, perhaps she will drop by sometime.

Jai

Thomas booklink@ptd.net Wed Feb 24 15:36:31 PST 1999

SKS,

I am hurt. You spent money on Jimmy Soul. He owes me. he did have a fantastic falsetto.
'Tis a small world. And no, I ain't never seen no Keg around these parts.

OK Michele and SNarly and I already got Rhoda and SKS,
I get the point. I am too cynical when it comes to editors. You are all correct, I am sure. I like SKS' possible scenario: that they might want to offer me a job. Seeing that the operation is in Piedmonte, Italy, I would like that an awful lot.

Oh yes, on studying the market. I have come to the conclusion that unless you stay in one, genre, and get to know it well, the only way to break into magazines is by first becoming a major book author, or the old "Know somebody" standby. On the other hand, studying the market is a lot easier than trying to come up with ideas to meet the whims of editors who give you no direction beforehand, which of course means you have to have read every issue of their magazine (from who knows how far back) so you don't duplicate.

Allein Lunika@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Wed Feb 24 15:14:48 PST 1999

Okay, I will try this again.

HELP!! I'M DROWNING!!! It's been raining here since yesterday - but then it rains here over 200 days out of the year. I can't wait until I go to Florida.

Well, I just dropped in to complain.
Bai bai.
Allein

Allein Lunika@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Wed Feb 24 15:11:18 PST 1999

HELP!! I'M DROWNING!!! It's been raining here all morning and afternoon and last night. I hear they might cancel school tomorrow because of flooding. But that's just what you get when you live up here in the great northwest. I can't wait until I go to Florida - that'll be over spring break.

Well, gotta go and do my homework.
Bai bai.
Allein

"Did I kill him? No, I did not. He died of a heart attack when I was stabbing him with the kitchen knife."
- heard this at school

S.K.S. Wed Feb 24 14:20:02 PST 1999

Oops! That's The Keg, not the Key.

S.K.S. Perry naejin16@hotmail.com Wed Feb 24 14:17:40 PST 1999

Oh ya,

Thomas, when my wife and I first started dating (about five years ago) she lived in Oshawa and I in Trenton, which is about an hours drive apart. We would meet in Oshawa at The Key (they have those in the U.S. don't they? If not, they're a chain of family steak houses.) We'd play a game of pool, have some nacho's and play the jukebox. The song my wife always picked? "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life," by Jimmy Soul. We later bought the CD as a momento. Small world eh?

Be Well, Live Well.

S.K.S. Perry naejin16@hotmail.com Wed Feb 24 12:41:49 PST 1999

Hey all,

Ok, four words that best describe me. I contacted a few of my friends and asked their opinion--other than nuts here's are the most poplular ones: adventurous, chivalrous, passionate, enigmatic. (I had to look up that last one to make sure I wasn't being insulted!)

S.N. Arly, I'm with you when it comes to market research and queries. What ever happened to the good old days when you just sent off what you wrote and someone read it and decided whether they liked it or not (or did those days ever actually exist?) Nowadays just writing the Great American Novel (or Canadian, Portugese, Australian, British....)just doesn't cut it. You have to have a degree in advertising so you can write all that mediaspeak (remember 1984?) that will catch an editor's eye while at the same time trying not to piss them off.

Be Well, Live Well.

Michele michele@sassoonery.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 24 12:36:21 PST 1999

Hi gang !

I've had the most wearisome day today so I am sitting here reading everyone's postings and giggling or chortling, and refusing to think about the Robert Frost poem I'm meant to be doing a critical analysis of - I am too tired to think straight enough for writing a bit of BS ! :-)

Four words to describe me ? Why only 4 - I could give you 44 probably ??!! Anyway here goes (Agsousa perhaps this'll help you know me better ?) :-

Obssessive, unemotional, loyal, deranged, cynical,
(the last is one that's mostly applied to me by others - I say I'm realistic but others call it cynicism...) Oops - just noticed that was 5 not 4 - but whatever... I did say Maths WASN'T a strong point !

Thomas - you were spot on with the Browning quotation - I like that poem... Oh and be optimistic about the publishers wanting more samples of your work... !

Hootie - loved the summarising - you have a neat line in precis !

I bumped into one of my tutors this morning and made his day by thanking him for a lecture he gave last semester because it had inspired me in writing my English essay for his course - he was SO pleased that I conclude he doesn't get thanked very often and vowed to make more of an effort to thank my tutors for their good lectures - I know they get paid for doing it but that's not the same as being thanked...

Anyway I will now pop online to post this and see if anyone loves me enough to email me... :-)

BFN, Michele

The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed.
-- Albert Einstein

Casey arcane128@hotmail.com Wed Feb 24 12:34:04 PST 1999

Hi all,

Just stopping in after missing a day due to a large and persistantly annoying color theory project... I had 2 hours sleep last night, so I'm keeping this post short (like post
like postee :) so that I can nap.

Lena- I never thought that I'd find another person that lost their shoes in their dreams. Everyone looks at me like I've got five heads and breath fire (I really only have one head) when I tell them about that. I wonder what sort of psychological meaning that's supposed to have... I'll have to look it up and get back to you. :)

4 words huh? creative, sarcastic, sensual, and hyperactive

Well, I really should catch some winks. It's karioke night hear on campus, and I fancy myself an amature singer. Haven't been in a choir class since 8th grade... but that doesn't stop me from making a complete fool of myself for the enjoyment of others :D

ta ta my lil chickadees

Casey

"There's only one thing that I know how to do well, and I've often been told that you can only do what you know how to do well, and that's be you. Be like yourself. And so I'm having a wonderful time but I'd rather be whistling in the dark"- They might be giants

S.N.Arly moobeast@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~moobeast Wed Feb 24 11:42:15 PST 1999

Agsousa/Amerigo - I supposed I deserved that for my Mac slam. But me and my bro call 'em smash-n-toss for a reason (oh geeze, there I go again).

I had an instant of creative reading on one of your recent posts. My brain misread betrothal as brothal. Oops. Sounded a little out of character, but then some of my writing seems out of my character too.

SKS - I think we can probably grasp concepts without the words that define them, but we may have trouble expressing them.

Thomas - Oh yah, I'm soooo freaking rich it's unbelievable. Can't figure out why I'm wasting my time here.

Maybe they want to see clips to see what other kinds of writing you do. They may want to keep you in mind for future freelancing.

Allein - The emperor after Mulan leaves to go home. Right before he says, "you don't meet a girl like that every dynasty."

Good luck with your mag. I worked on one for my HS two years running and it can be very rwarding. Frustrating at times, but worth it.

Lena - We had to do that in my 12 grade English class. It was, I think, four words to describe you, something to describe you angry, something to describe you happy and one thing that you know (a truth or what have you). So, here's a shot. I am: jaded, cynnical, tall, and clumsy; When angry I am fire, when happy I'm a sapphire (hey that rhymes!), And the one thing I know is that humans are a lot more adaptable than we like to give ourselves credit for.

Rhoda - I find the whole market research and query letter thing very bothersome. I'm often all out of sorts when I'm done with it. I'd guess it's just the one aspect of writing that doesn't seem as much fun, and I'd rather spend my writing time having fun.

Litter - Thanks for the info on Howard. We wish him well.

S.N.Arly
"I tried to dance at a funeral, New Orleans style
I joined the gravedancers union, I had to file..."

Lydia Sweet lydiasweet@yahoo.com Wed Feb 24 11:23:56 PST 1999

Hi all,

Ok, Lena, I tried to be honest and I even looked up the different conotations of the words I am using. Not all are flattering terms, but I wanted you to see what I think of myself.

Misconstrued, maternal, bossy, undiscovered.

The last is not just by the world, but by myself as well. I'm still trying to decide who and what I am. Do we ever stop the discovery process?

Lydia

Thomas Wed Feb 24 10:18:31 PST 1999

Lena,

You misunderstand. I was describing me by adding argumentative and free spirited to your first two adjectives.

Thomas Wed Feb 24 10:15:47 PST 1999

SKS and Rhoda,

You guys are right. I grow so weary of the tons of abuse and negative responses (or no responses at all) that I tend to doubt the possible sincerity of those who would buy writer's works. Thanks.

I did like the story about the bar manager. It hit close to home; in my youth I dabbled in the music world. Left many of those clubs without having gotten paid. One time the guy who ripped us off was our lead singer -- never heard from him again until he re-surfaced as Jimmy Soul singing "If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife..." Even the record company we recorded for ripped us off.

Chicken or beef stock are of course great for adding to rice dishes -- can't make a risotto without chicken stock. Good in soups like pumpkin or beet; necessary in a good osso buco. I also add wine, but I know there are those who disbelieve in that process, and I see it as their flavor loss. Rhoda, I think you have the idea.

Lena feylena@hotmail.com Wed Feb 24 10:09:07 PST 1999

Thomas – Remember, these are adjectives I feel describe myself, and others will probably have a different opinion. What one feels and what others see are often two different things.

I noticed nobody has tried to describe themselves here besides Hootie... c’mon people! I would love to see how people describe themselves.

Oh, and Thomas, what do you mean I’m argumentative? I’M NOT ARGUMENTATIVE!!!

Hootie – I liked your ‘summary paragraph’ of all the topics we have touched on. ‘Twas quite fun! And I think the smell of warm asphalt after it starts raining is a musty gravel scent that you taste more then smell, thick and with a slight taste of tar and exhaust. Maybe? I know what you are talking about, just having trouble putting it into words.

“The only thing I know about money matters is that it does,”
-Lena

Hootie MHooten@csw.L-3com.com Wed Feb 24 08:23:48 PST 1999

Hey all—I have been out of town for a few days visiting my in-laws, and although I tried to keep an eye on the Notebook, I didn’t get a chance to post anything. So here’s my attempt to catch up:

I did well in math, but never much liked it, because I was usually not allowed to do it in the way I wanted to. I am an IBM user, despite my frustrations with Microsoft. I did pretty well in high school, despite my tendency to sleep. I went to college, but dropped out due to frustration and lack of ambition. Six years in the Navy convinced me that there is a reason to put up with all the garbage in higher education. I put tension in my story by leading trying to lead the reader to wonder what’s going to happen next, or putting in a scene that makes the reader question what the characters are really doing. My dreams are usually a reflection of my anxieties, or worse, they are my very realistic scenarios of the near future (which can be confusing). I also have “mini-dreams”, usually when I’m just falling asleep. Everything makes sense, but I can never remember it when I wake up. I’ve always wanted to describe the smell of warm asphalt just after it starts raining. I would describe myself as quiet, withdrawn, inquisitive, and easy-going. I haven’t had a chance to get on the workbook recently, but I will. Does that cover most everything?

Agsousa—Thanks for the compliment, and for your friendship. I love your posts, because I’m never sure what to expect, but I’m always delighted.

Gwty—Your nickname sounds perfectly Welsh, and would be pronounced “Gooty” or “Goody”. Keep writing, because you obviously share your father’s talent.

Lena—Your writing class is certainly providing some interesting things for us. Hope you’re enjoying it, too.

Ashling—I’m glad you found my story. I’m looking forward to hearing from you.

I think that’s it for now.
“They’re coming to take me away, ho ho, hee hee, ha ha!”

Rhoda rfort@ren.net http://www.angelfire.com/nm/goldenpen Wed Feb 24 07:47:11 PST 1999

Thomas,

I don't have a lot of varied uses for stock, but I use it a lot in the things I normally cook. I make rice with it. I use it for sauces, say with Chinese food. I have also been known to substitute it for water in casaroles. I didn't try garlic. I guess I should, for I like garlic in most things if it isn't overdone. Congratulations on making a good impression with your article. When in a situation like the one you describe, I try to give the people the benefit of the doubt. S.K.S. could be right; they might want to broaden your horizens and use you on a regular basis. They might, on the other hand, be suspicious of you. You really don't know, but if you must believe something, believe the positive. Most people are kinder than we give them credit for. I have found that to be true. Besides it never hurts to give your self-esteem a boost now and then. So either take it as a positive or put no significance on it at all.

Lena,

That is an interesting exercise. I would say all those and many more apply to me. It all depends upon my mood and the time of the month.

"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life. It goes on." Robert Frost

Happy writing!

Rhoda

S.K.S. Perry naejin16@hotmail.com Wed Feb 24 07:19:52 PST 1999

Hey all,

Thomas, I have given up trying to figure out what passes through the minds of editors and publishers and their like. Your asssumptions may be correct (they sound plausible enough) or they could be way off base. Who knows, maybe they like it so much they're considering offering you a regular column and they want to check the quality of that piece against others that you've written to make sure you're not just a flash in the pan. (That's my hope for you.)
All I can say is, send them what they want--what can it hurt?

My band was playing this really nice bar once, and things seemed to be going well. After our first set, the bar owner walked up to our manager/bass player and said in a no nonsense tone with a face that looked like he'd been sucking on lemon juice from concentrate, "I need to talk to you in my office--now." Obviously this didn't sound good. Bar managers are notorious cheats, and as fickle as publishers ever were, and the bass player dragged me with him into the office as I was basically our bands enforcer, making sure we got paid and didn't get ripped off or anything. Anyway, this guy takes a seat behind this massive desk, and says with that dead pan face, "You guys are great. You're just what I've been looking for and I'd like to hire you as our house band." You could have knocked us over with a feather (as long as it was attatched to the end of say a sledge hammer or something.)

All I'm trying to say is that you can never tell what someone is thinking, and when you try, probably ninety percent of the time you're wrong. We as writers are so used to the abuse and totally illogical antics of publishers that we automatically assume the worst, when who knows, maybe he just wants to offer you a house gig.

"More are taken in by hope than by cunning."--Marquis de Vauvenargues

Be Well, Live Well.

S.K.S. Perry naejin16@hotmail.com Wed Feb 24 07:19:12 PST 1999

Thomas booklink@ptd.net Wed Feb 24 06:31:03 PST 1999

This is addressed to all, but especially to SKS.

I wrote an article last year for a magazine that folded before the article was published. I got paid for it, so that was ok, but I have sought a place for the story ever since. Two days ago I found a place interested in looking at it. I was told I could email the article. After they read it, I was also told they liked it, but before they decide whether or not to publish it they would like to see clips of my writing.

My question: if they like what is in front of them, why do they need to see clips?

Possible answer: they publish only those who have been published before. Another possible answer: they think I am an imposter.

Sad situation, isn't it?

Thomas booklink@ptd.net Wed Feb 24 06:21:55 PST 1999

Ashling,

You had so many posts I needed to go back to make sure I am addressing the correct person. Re: coffee smell, how about "the acrid aroma of herbs burnt in an outdoor pit of fading embers" or "the pungent smoke from a two-day old forest fire".

Lena,

I certainly believe I share your first two descriptions, but boy do we part company on "trusting and vulnerable". I guess I'll have to chalk that one up to age. In fact, a character who is both trusting and vulnerable would make a great subject for a story about disaster.

So, added to sarcastic and intelligent I will take argumentative and free-spirited.

Rhoda,

Since they are difficult to chew, I imagine bones have been seeped since they were discovered underneath the meat of animals; our standard poodle thinks they should be chewed without interruption.

Hope you add a littel garlic to your stock. What do you do with the stock afterwards? In what preparations besides soup?

Jack,

Whatever you said about the transfer, I concur. You lose me with all that tech stuff.

Eddie,

Re: "Windows" crashing. Speak to SNarly; he knows it is superior to Mac OS, which crashes only once a week instead of once a day.
I think crashes are written into the software so that we remain under the illusion that the next upgrade will be better and we wastefully spend our money on each one that comes along.

Jack Beslanwitch Wed Feb 24 02:18:05 PST 1999

Ashling: Aside from not drinking blood and occasionally being able to subject my skin to the rays of the sun with some distaste, you might mistake me for one of those children of the night. About the time the sun starts rising is when I start running for my coffin..er..bundle of blankets that I cacoon under next to my beloved wife. The fun part will be next September when I will post to here from down under. Then I can watch as the posts do not even come up with the same day. Take care everyone and glad to see that you found your way here.

Ashling jwbear@bellsouth.net Wed Feb 24 02:15:05 PST 1999

I'm 2 hours AHEAD of the Notebook. Arrgh!!! I promise I won't post again ... Think I need to go to bed early.

Ashling

Ashling jwbear@bellsouth.net Wed Feb 24 02:11:26 PST 1999

JACK --- Oops! I'm on Central time (always get that mixed up, television advertises movies on Eastern time)- so I was & still am -- 2 hours behind the Notebook time. Only took a minute to fly through the ether.

Ashling

Ashling jwbear@bellsouth.net Wed Feb 24 02:05:46 PST 1999

HI JACK --- Just a trial run to see how long my posts take to arrive during the moving bit. I'm in USA - It's now Wed. Feb. 24th 04:09 am Eastern Stardard Time -- In the past, I believe the Notebook was on Pacific time ... 3 hours earlier than me.

Are you a nightowl too --- or just working extra on "moving day?"

Take care,
Ashling

Jack Beslanwitch Wed Feb 24 01:30:09 PST 1999

I went ahead and took care of the temporary relocation of the Notebook as well as moving all posts here as well.

Jack Beslanwitch Wed Feb 24 00:54:34 PST 1999

Marv: I did a quick cursory search on anthropology on Infoseek and brought up Exemplary Writing - Principles of Anthropology Course and Discussion on Anthap Listserv Regarding Identity as Applied Anthropologists I suspect that you will find a large body of applied anthropology work posted to the web. And you might take a look at the life of other earlier anthropologists. Margaret Meade is one that comes to mind as much for her flamboyant and gutsy personality as a women in a man's world as much as the quality of her scientific work. Still, this bit of a look around took all of five minutes to do. Granted, I pulled the Margaret Meade URL from my Encyclopedia Britannica DVD, but it highlights what is available within easy reach on the web. That might be an additional topic that we might want to consider. What are the best ways to set about researching a topic area on and off the internet.

Also, I am giving the call tomorrow and starting the process of moving my domain to the new ISP. What I will do sometime tomorrow is create an automatic meta forwarding address to a temporary new location at Some may recognize this as the old location for the Notebook. Do not worry about redoing your bookmarks. What will happen is that when all the IP Address databases catch up around the world you will get sent again to http://www.webwitch.com/notebook/ when I set things up at the much more inexpensive web server. Any messages that get left over on the halcyon server I will archive. So it will be a little bit of a guessing game as to when different parts of the world will all be pointed at the same location. This, of course, goes for everything else on webwitch.com as well.

Marv maikens@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu Wed Feb 24 00:25:58 PST 1999

Hi everyone. This is my first time posting here and I was wondering if anyone could help me out. Does anyone know what anthropologists do (specifically) when they immerse themselves in other cultures? This is for the book I'm writing. I'd appreciate any help

Rhoda rfort@ren.net http://www.angelfire.com/nm/goldenpen Tue Feb 23 18:28:23 PST 1999

Agsousa,

How could I possibly stay away from here and stay mad? I certainly couldn't go though life knowing you were posting your thoughtful, provocative, and sparkling posts on the Notebook and not let myself read them, let alone respond to them. I assure you that the affection is mutual, so here I am. I copied your posting from the Notebook to my Wordperfect file. I intend to print it out tonight and read it. If we are to be friends, I must read your work.

Thomas,

I've spent most of the day simmering chicken stock. Naturally when I am doing some culinary project, I think of you. How long have people been boiling bones for stock? Probably forever. I have Graham Kerr to thank for my appreciation of meat stock.

Ed,

You put me to shame. I've been trying all week to get to "In the 70's" and here you put two other works upon the Workbook. I will read them after I get them copied from Wordperfect.

Jai,

Thank you for sending me your story. I will try to have it read soon.

I've spent the whole day getting out query letters, and I am depressed. I don't fear rejection, but I am really tired of putting out all this effort and getting the endless piles of form rejections that say absolutely nothing except "No." If I sent a letter handwritten that had absolute gibberish, would I get the same response from my agent friends? I have been tempted to try and see. But I won't because I am afraid to know. Now, I must help my son with his homework.

"If it weren't for the last minute, a lot of things wouldn't get done." Michael S. Traylor

Lena feylena@hotmail.com Tue Feb 23 18:28:03 PST 1999

Greetings,

Agsousa - You have a wonderful gift for giving compliments without becoming self-conscious. Thank you.

My e-mail is STILL not working. You never realize how dependent you are technology until... well. Is anybody else out there having trouble with their hotmail account?

No deep thoughts or meaningful paragraphs from Lena today. I was up late last night reading a new book, did not get to sleep until 4:30 in the morning, and got a grand total of two hours of sleep. I have been in a daze all day. And the ending of that book wasn't even worth it...

Oh, I do have something to write (you can't shut me up that easily!). Casey, you are not alone in that shoe-dream-thing. Now, I rarely dream but one of the most vivid dreams I remember is one in which I am constantly wondering where my shoes are. In that dream, my house gets blown up, I am running for my life, my family dies, but my biggest memory is of missing one shoe. Where did that shoe go? It is bothersome.

How's that for strange?
-Lena
I NEED SLEEP!!!

BTW - I had to write a poem in which you had to describe yourself with four adjectives. Mine were: sarcastic, intelligent, trusting, and vulnerable. Out of interest, how would everyone here describe themselves?

Ashling jwbear@bellsouth.net Tue Feb 23 18:22:16 PST 1999

LITTER --- Hi there! Thanks for info on Howard, I emailed him.

Take care,
Ashling

Ashling jwbear@bellsouth.net Tue Feb 23 18:09:54 PST 1999

HI RHODA --- Good to "see" ya.

OLIVIA --- How's your latest writing progressing? I always enjoy your posts ... Hope you drop by more often.

AGSOUSA --- Welcome back. Thanks for your provocative posts. Here's an American slang word for you: Jonesin' = Coined to describe drug withdrawal ["I'm jonesin' real bad"]. It was later expanded to describe physical & emotional pain incurred from being separated from anything considered vital to your life. Fits what you felt during Internet malfunction, huh?

S.K.S. PERRY & THOMAS --- Nice to hear machines can't describe smells either (My PC nearly convinced me it's omniscient). I get my caffeine in Pepsi - don't drink coffee, but adore the aroma. Tried for weeks to describe the smell of early morning coffee for a story ... doubt I did it justice.

EDDIE --- Your productivity inspires. I'm posting a long story on Workbook after finishing rewrites, hopefully by next week ... Maybe sooner if you have your Muse "do lunch" with mine.

ALLEIN --- Good luck with the Literary Mag. It took me 3 tries to find a f-t-f writers group where everyone consistently shows up, ready to work. Hang in there.

HOOTIE --- Found your story again, "Sacred Hospitality." Will email you.

JACK --- Hi ya. I know you're out there somewheres.

Hello & Happy Writing to all. I'm in a great mood. Creating a FUN writing project for a change.

Take care,
Ashling

agsousa agsousa@esoterica.pt Tue Feb 23 17:25:30 PST 1999

Litter: I didn't know you had Celtic blood. I thought you had no blood at all.

By the by, Portugal 5, Scotland 0!

See you in the bull ring, o bard of the Highlands.

Yours aye,
Amerigo Vespucii

agsousa agsousa@esoterica.pt Tue Feb 23 17:12:33 PST 1999

Now, be silent, everyone.

I have just published in the novel section of this wonderful site the three first chapters of *Alexander's Betrothal* — the best title I could think of to translate the untranslatable: *Os Cornos de Cronos*. It's a fantasy/realistic novel. How can you translate realismo fantástico*? I know magic realism — the one of Garcia Marquez, for example, but fantastic realism doesn't sound good. Get a word for me, please, oh descendants of the wuthering heights!

Litter Tue Feb 23 17:11:38 PST 1999

All,

I don't know if Howard has said or not, but he has been in for surgery on his neck today. I'd like for those of you of a religious persuasion to pray for him, and those who are not to wish him well with his recuperation on his return. I know he values both prayers and friendships.

Litter

Litter LitterAli@aol.com http://members.aol.com/litterali/WS/LitsPage.htm Tue Feb 23 17:08:23 PST 1999

Hi All,

Seems we are back to busy again!

Eddie,

I’m glad you got on before I did – now I won’t sound so strange? Dreams and even Nightmares are wonderful things, for, devoid of the safeguards of consciousness, the subconscious is free to break all the rules and if you can only but remember what you have dreamed this can give insight to much. Like Eddie I have learned to manipulate dreams to the extent that I can wake myself when things aren’t to my liking and immediately fall back asleep having sorted out what does not appeal to me. Don’t knock it – it works! Although I’m not quite sure how I learned to do this and even less sure of how to teach someone else…

Jai,

I has long since been held by some psychologists that we can with practice learn to extract answers to questions whilst dreaming. Many years ago as a student I used to use this ‘technique’. It didn’t always work but it did work often enough for me to be a convert. There is nothing mystical about this, especially if it is a work or study based problem, or a ‘where did I leave it?’ problem. The information is in your memory, in some dark recess, and probably there because you didn’t attach much significance or importance to it. It seems that thinking about the problem as you are falling asleep ‘programs’ the subconscious to keep searching and you wake up with the answer. Doesn’t help much though if the question was in yesterdays exam paper :o)

It seems the answer to how much or how little you dream depends on the extent how much your mind is stimulated (and I mean really challenged) before sleep – well, that’s how it works for me.

Agsousa – “I used to be a bit cautious about Celtic-blood blokes” Have I been insulted here? I don’t feel like I have been, just asking???

Allein Lunika@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Tue Feb 23 15:48:23 PST 1999

Hi all. I just got back from my afterschool meeting for the literary magazine we're planning to put out. The others liked my poems, but we didn't read most of the time. For half an hour we stood (or sat) around telling jokes (mostly about sex). That's because most of the people didn't even show up.

Anyway, I've graced you with my presence and now I'm gonna leave.
Bai bai,
Allein

"The flower that blooms in adversity is the most rare and beautiful of all."
- Fa Zhou
"Mulan" - even though I can't remember hearing this anywhere in the movie.

Eddie French eddiefrench@email.com http://www.mirabilis.com Tue Feb 23 15:15:11 PST 1999

Thanks Bill! (Once again)

Ohh that ^... I had just finished half a page to post and my computer crashed! I am really getting fed up with the amount of crashes I have to endure with windows.
Flame over.
Hi Agsousa,
I just know that when I see your name up top that I am going to have to get a good answer ready but you stumped me this time. Thank you for your honesty.I sent you a link to ICQ (mirabilis) some time ago and you are on my future users list. The link is at the top of this post if you wish to check it out. I am not really diplomatic to our American friends, I merely reciprocate. You should see some of my postings in alt.writing. We are all the same...we treat people as they treat us. I have found the people here to be genuine and not at all pedantic. This is reasonably rare on the net. (Among the writing fraternity).
Rhoda,
Yes...You are absolutely right, I am the original 'fears and frustrations guy'. But I know how to handle it. I have learned dream participation over time and I can sometimes direct the way that I dream, and I have a wake up device. Like Dorothys' heel clicking.
I used to believe in writers block but now I put it down to lack of self motivation. (I am quite prolific at the moment so I am being smug.) In fact I have just posted yet another first chapter of a short story on the workbook. I think I have started five new projects in the past month or two. (I hope I can finish them all).
I have also started reading all of the Isaac Asimov 'Robot' series for the third time around. I read about a hundred pages every night. (Less time to dream) I don't work any more so I have plenty of time to read and write.
Now hands over ears while I send a private message.
Ray,
I know that you are lurking out there so when are we going to hear from you. If you don't get in here then I will not draw up those plans for your conservatory. Capishe!!
Ok.. you can listen up again now.
Jack,
I hope you enjoy your stay in Oz. I visited back in the seventies and loved it there. I stayed in the warm part, Darwin and then over to townsville. (I just missed the Typhoon) I hope someone is looking after the shop when you're gone. You know how quickly the notebook gets to 200k.
I could write all night but I wont. I want to get back to my work...if I can decide which one to get on with.
later,
Ed

Lydia Sweet Tue Feb 23 14:21:41 PST 1999

We enjoy your company as much as you seem to enjoy our.

(Shoot! Don't you know I would trip over my tongue.)

Lydia

Tue Feb 23 14:19:57 PST 1999

Agsousa,

You enthusiasm is contagious. We have enjoyed your exuberant contributions to the forum as well. You have contributed some very thought provoking topics. We hope you continue to enjoy company as much as you appear to enjoy ours.

I think you were referring to me when you mentioned Linda in your post. (Actually that happens to be my mothers name), but in any event I think you would find me rather tart than sweet.

This is an intriguing topic of words, but as Russia lacks a word for privacy, think of the countries that have one word that has many meanings, the only difference is the pronunciation. A guttural sound from the throat or a hiss from the teeth can change its entire meaning. I believe Asian countries are known for this. (Of course I could be totally off base.)

I am happy to say my writers block has passed. Now if I can just steal the time to write. (Sigh!)

My posts have been very few the past week or so because I have been very busy at work and was out of the office to attend a class last Friday.

Have a good day all.

Lydia

S.K.S. Perry naejin16@hotmail.com Tue Feb 23 12:32:17 PST 1999

Thomas,

A psychologist friend of mine was working at Queens University in Kingston, Ontario, doing research on developing senses for machines. Some where easy (or relatively so) such as vision, hearing and smell (though smell was one of the more difficult ones--they had no problem getting a machine to differentiate between odours, it was in labelling them that they found the difficulty.) The biggest problem was in developing a sense of touch. How do you get a machine to recognise oily, or slimy? I found it fascinating and spent more than a few hours at the lab helping them out--until the administration found out that I didn't go to Queens and gave me the boot--their loss too, it was one of my ideas that sparked a breakthrough they'd been struggling with for months. I think it irked them that they still had to give me credit for it--them being the administration, not the staff.

"The less I need, the more I get. Make me chaste, but not just yet."--Sting

Be Well, Live Well.

Thomas booklink@ptd.net Tue Feb 23 12:13:46 PST 1999

SKS,

It was I who mentioned the lack of a Russian word for the concept of privacy. The fellow who told me that explained how it made his stay in Russia enjoyable to learn such things because he developed a better understanding of the society and culture.

As regards describing sensations through words, I have always felt that the weakest link among humans is the link of language and words; that's what makes writing such an important profession or avocation; it is a test of our abilities. In my wine and food writing profession I am frequently called upon to describe tastes, and it is not an easy task.

Agsousa,

Despite the derogations of Snarly, a Mac can handle ICQ. I have been using it and I use a Mac. I find that those who hate Macs often have large shares in Microsoft stock -- how rich are you SN?

I went into the Air Force on Pearl Harbor Day (Dec 7) 1966, at the height of the air war in Vietnam, and joined only because I was being drafted to become an Army grunt. I lucked out and was not sent to South East Asia, but did have to do penance for one year in an isolated tour at Thule, Greenland. I was there the year a B52 crashed into the ice -- what a trip that was, for the dead crew and the rest of us on land. The event toppled the Danish Govt. at the time because we were flying nuclear warheads over Danish soil in violation of an agreement.

During that tour of duty I learned about loneliness, alcohol and Eskimos (the latter two went hand-in-hand, thanks to our freely dispensing to the poor locals; of course, i had my share of it). Somewhere during my tour the Air Force stupidly let me go home for Christmas. It took them 45 days to find me again. I figured the worst they could do to me was to send me to Greenland, and that is what they did.

Thanks for listing me as a friend, even if, sadly, we are but cyber buddies. Now you see that my maturity is a physical reality.

As for dreams, I have been a dreamer all my life, both asleep and a awake. Sometimes, I have trouble telling the two conditions apart, and then I truly write something good.

"A man's reach should be beyond his grasp, or what is heaven for?" Browning, I believe. A true dreamer, he was.

S.K.S. Perry naejin16@hotmail.com Tue Feb 23 11:47:25 PST 1999

Hey all,

Something got me thinking (actually, lots of things get me thinking, but something got me thinking about a particular topic.)

I think it was Agsousa (probably was, because you're a big trouble maker and I love you for that!) who mentioned that in Russia there is no word for privacy. It got me to thinking how difficult it is to grasp a concept when you don't have a word for it. How real is that concept for you? Does it even exist at all? Have you ever tried to describe how something tastes that just doesn't fit into simple terms like salty, sour, sweet or bitter. Try chocolate (my personal favourite) or butterscotch (another biggie on my list.) Even words like salty only mean something to us because most of us have tasted something salty, but if you never had, how would someone describe it to you. It would never be a real sensation for you.

Maybe this hearkens back to that discussion we had on the power and magic of words. Still, it got me to thinking, what other concepts are there that we take for granted that aren't universal, and which ones are (Hey Rhoda, maybe you're right and truth is a universal concept!--Nuts, I learn something new every day.)

Agsousa, I'm honoured to be counted amoung your friends, and though I'm sure it is a less dubious honour to be counted amoung one of mine, never the less, it is so.

"Truth exists, only falsehood has to be invented."--Georges Braques

Be Well, Live Well.

agsousa agsousa@esoterica.pt Tue Feb 23 11:21:09 PST 1999

Everybody seems to be writing much better since I left to the Algarve. I like to think of some of you as fiction characters. What is hidden behind your words? In some cases, it's not difficult to guess. But there are people here who are still a mystery to me. After one month of this intimate (though virtual) contact, I've made a choice of friends. Here's the list: Thomas for his understanding of my idiosyncrasies (c'mon, the word exists and has a plural); Eddie for living in England, a country I very much love, and for being so diplomatic with the Americans (also for being a potencially good writer); Hootie for his dedication to serious topics (though he has also a grain of humour hidden in his sleeve); Perry because he told us something I loved (when one of his stories was rejected and his wife brought him exactly the magazine that had rejected his story — and also because he speaks about rejections with the right spirit: steps to future immortality); Lena, an obvious talent to the near future, pity she's wasting time with creative writing courses (incidentally, I have been invited to give one of those next academic year in one of the Lisbon universities: I haven't refused yet... they can be a lot of fun, I guess); S.N. Arly for being a sport (in Gatsby's sense) and for knowing nothing about computers; Rhoda for having corrected her regretable decision of not writing to this forum any more; Allein, the greatest writer of us all despite his/her tender age (how tender?); Jack for personal reasons no one here will know — but, as a contributor to this page, he must be prepared to my neighbour's cat unforseeable observations; Howard because he always knows what he speaks about (though he is wrong about the nature of truth); Rachel because she's a sweetheart, and so is Linda, and so is everybody. I'm prepared to make more friends tomorrow as much as I'm prepared to lose some friends today.

There are also people who I don't know yet very well. I used to be a bit cautious about Celtic-blood blokes until Portugal won 5-0 to Scotland. With an Australian I used to speak about theatre till the day he directed "Coriolanus" (that was summer and strawberries, you can't watch Shakespeare eating strawberries with cream). Well, I must interrupt now, someone's knocking at the door.

S.N.Arly moobeast@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~moobeast Tue Feb 23 10:51:47 PST 1999

On dreams - I dream all the time and quite often they're nightmares. So it has always been.

Agsousa/Amerigo - Welcome back. We also have carrier signal problems from time to time. During last summer's storms we had such difficulties often. ICQ is a program for establishing/holding internet chats. I believe even those less fortunate souls with Macs can use it (that's a joke. I know I said I wouldn't be sarcastic with ESL folks, but I just can't help it).

SKS - I'm having trouble opening that image and will let you know if I either just can't do it, or if I ever to get it open. I'm eager to see what you, and your artistic bent, might do to stonehenge.

S.N.Arly
"How on earth did I get so jaded, life's mysteries seem so faded..."

agsousa agsousa@esoterica.pt Tue Feb 23 09:24:56 PST 1999

Michele and everybody: what's ICQ? Can a Macintosh user use that as well? And how?

Jack: Serendipity? Nice word. Give us examples, please. The discovery of America, for instance? We have no proper translation in Portuguese for that. What's the Spanish word? By the way (or BTW), I heard on the telly some days ago that *Saudade* is registered in the Encyclopedia Britannica meaning a misture of nostalgia and hope.

Thomas: Were you in the US Air Force during the Vietnam War? You must be more or less my age (though you seem more mature than me). At that time I was doing my military service in Cape Verde Archipelago, on an almost desert Island called Ilha do Sal. I learned the meaning of the word loneliness during those two years. I was in love with Shakespeare, tape record players and little creole girls. I was also a hippie, of course. My favourite writer of the time was Jack Kerouac (oh!, *On the Road*!). Coming back to Portugal and University I wanted to write a thesis on Kerouac. Refused: Portugal was very conservative at that time. Even Kerouac was suspicious. So I wrote my M.A. thesis on the American Poet Vachel Lindsay — who was even more hippie than Kerouac. But nobody knew him here. I passed!

PS. I'm reading your last week posts. More answers in a minute or twenty, depending on motivation and technology. I'm very excited to be back.

Michele michele@sassoonery.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 23 09:06:28 PST 1999

Hi

Just thought I'd mention that I went mad and installed ICQ on the old PC.... !

That's it !

Michele

agsousa agsousa@esoterica.pt Tue Feb 23 08:28:53 PST 1999

Hello, everybody!

I spent some days in the Algarve preparing the translation of some chapters of my second novel to offer you with kisses. I came back yesterday to Lisbon. I tried to connect myself to you right away but, oh! frustration, I couldn't connect myself to Internet, due to "carrier signal" problems (do you also have problems of that kind there?) After 24 hours and hundreds of exhasperated trials, I managed. But I'm afraid the connection will go soon. I'll be back when I can. Lots of things to tell you.

PS. I haven't read any messages yet since last week. But I've seen RHODA'S name. Has she returned? My heart rejoyces.
Sorry for the errors in English and spelling. No time to check that.

Xavier ek282789@hvcc.edu Tue Feb 23 08:12:19 PST 1999

Hello again.
My, My waiting two days to read this board can equate into some legnthy reading! I'll be sure to check in more frequently in the future. Thus far, i only have internet access at school, but I am fixing that problem by getting a service provider for home too.
On the subject of dreams, I'd like to say that I wish I was having one right now, as I am tired. Sadly, however, my dreams are rarely pleasant, and often disturb my sleep. Still, right now I'll take my chances.
On the subject of injecting tension (I think someone mentioned it WAY back!), this is a skill that seperates the excelent writers from the good writers. For me, its the energy of a high powered scene that keeps me reading, or the romantic- tragety of a 'Trinity' type story. I try to inject my storys with plenty of both, as its easier to appreciate one when the other is present. I feel that most storys are too heavily laden with only one element, and the charicterization often suffers considerably. When in doubt, I opt for the more melodramatic side, as this is often the more real of possabilitys (as apposed to having my charicter jump from a plane simply to keep the story moving.) Maybe I'm the one who has it wrong. I was wrong once.;(
I went to an independant film fest this weekend here at the college, where the area directors and writers showed off there stuff. It ws touted as true genius work. Personally, I think it was crap, as I often feel when viewing some modern pictures. They are 'dry', without any emotion or charicterization injected. Even the drama was forced and goofed up! After the third movie, i walked out. These were not fellow students, mind you, for i would have encouraged their worst efforts! No, these were 'Professionals', and when I approached them to ask to get involved, they looked me up and down. It was as if I was below their standards. Man, that pissed me off!
well, thats about enough out of me, mates, I'll take my leave now. But I know where the real genuises are, and I'll
return here!
Xavier (this is as long as a book, sorry.)

Jai Jai@towerswoft.com.au Mon Feb 22 20:51:22 PST 1999

Hul diddley oh,

Dreams are indead an interesting topic, often used in fanasy to help the plot or increase tension. Because no one really understands them can use them in our writing in any way we feel like. I've heard a lot of people relate their dreams and nightmares as I'm sure you all have. The only thing in common is that they are all different, though rumours abound that some people have dreamed the same thing. I have a friend who can ask "god" (for lack of a better word) a question and then dream the answer, he has found many a lost item in this fashion and it seems to work. Stranger and stranger.

What is a dream?

Who knows, another of the mysteries that make life so much fun.

Jai

Casey arcane128@hotmail.com Mon Feb 22 18:16:14 PST 1999

Well, on the subject of nightmares, I hardly ever have them. Whenever I do, I'm always running from something.

Actually, I have a weird thing that keeps repeating in my dreams. I constantly look down to see that I'm not wearing any shoes. Then I spend a while searching for those shoes, and ultimately end up forgetting that I lost them in the first place.

My dreams are always weird, enigmatic things... I have absolutely no idea what they mean. I just had a dream not more that 2 hours ago, that it was Halloween, and I was over my boyfriend's house(odd thing was, he wasn't in the dream at all), and I was handing out candy to younger versions of my cousins... Weird stuff.

Gotta go get some work done. See ya later

"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." -Jack Handey 'Deep Thoughts'

Casey

Allein Lunika@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Mon Feb 22 16:22:11 PST 1999

Nightmares - hmmm. I don't really have many nightmares - most of my dreams are just plain weird. There is a part in my story that involves Allein having a nightmare - during class. He screams, sits straight up in his seat and just looks around nervously. The teacher comes up and simply says "Is there anything you'd like to share with the class?" Or something like that. Allein is just embarrassed and blushes. Something similar happened in one of my classes - the one right before lunch. This guy fell asleep and the teacher took a yard stick and slammed it against his desk very hard. He sits up and the teacher says "Now that you're awake..." And then she asked him a question that he couldn't answer because he had been sleeping. He got a detention. I fall asleep in class too - 2nd period anatomy seems to be my favorite class in which to take a nap. Although, it is kind of uncomfortable to put your head down and sleep on a desk, but I manage and my teacher never seems to notice, or if he does, he doesn't say anything about it. Perhaps this little sleeping ritual was one of the factors towards my C- in that class. My friend had a problem with falling asleep in 4th period and said that he wishes that 4th period was a nap period - I reminded him that 4th period already WAS his nap period regardless of what his schedule said.

Whoa, I am getting like way off track, so I'll just leave and let another person post their two cents.
Bai bai,
Allein

"Blessings on him who invented sleep."
- Cervantes
"Don Quixote"

Rhoda rfort@ren.net http://www.angelfire.com/nm/goldenpen Mon Feb 22 15:14:17 PST 1999

Regarding nightmares. Nightmares are terrifying while you are having them. It helps afterwards to dissect the dream. In my case it is often pent-up frustration. We have been looking for a house for over six months. In the meantime we live in an inadequate rental here in Perryton. A couple of months ago, I looked at a house on a 2 acre lot out in the country in another community. In the front of the house was a cross. We figured a pet dog or cat might have been buried there. My kids had fun with that thought. On the way home from seeing the house they constructed suppositions about a person being buried in the front yard.

I had the dream a few nights later. A woman had been murdered and buried in the house we bought in this same neighborhood. Needless to say, in the dream, this woman would not stay buried. I woke up terrified. Then I worked it out and figured why I dreamed it. Has anyone ever contracted for a house and feared they had bought the Amityville horror? I don't mean the gateway to Hell, but I mean perhaps there are libilities you did not foresee when you made the deal--a toxic waste dump, a parolled child molester in the neighborhood, bad wiring, cabinets that fall apart, anything the housing inspection didn't catch--and here you are stuck. Furthermore, I like Perryton and the idea of locating to another town and in this case another state, though close by, is frightening. Will the schools be any good? Will we be plagued with the gang problems such as they have in Liberal, KS (just a few miles away)? Will we find a good church? There are a lot of unknown variables and anxieties inherent in choosing a new house or a new community. That dream was merely a reflexion of my fears.

Maybe, Ed, there are inherent fears and frustrations in your life. I have them; my husband has them. Just about everyone I know has them, but we express them in different ways. No doubt the subconscious has its own expression also. Unfortunately for some of us, that takes the form of nightmares.

"I am still learning." Michelangelo

Rhoda

Eddie french eddiefrench@email.com Mon Feb 22 13:53:53 PST 1999

Jack,
Could you take a look at the short story workbook area.
It's busted.
Ed

Michele michele@sassoonery.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 22 13:00:49 PST 1999

Hi !

Nightmares ? - very rarely have them as far a