Archived Messages from March 16, 1999 to March 23, 1999

Jack Beslanwitch Tue Mar 23 17:02:47 PST 1999

Hello all: Feeling a lot better and trying to desperately dig my way out from under a load of work and responsibilities. As soon as I do I will archive here. However, that will have to wait probably until much later tonight.

Just to warn everyone, there is going to be a chat tonight for the Westercon 52 programming team between 7 and 9 pm pst. Sorry if this is an inconvenience, but our former location on Excite was proving too undependable. Take care and thanks for the well wishes. I do not get sick often, but when I do I do work hard at it ;-). Tue Mar 23 16:44:28 PST 1999


This is an important message and I'd appreciate you talked about it in the chat room (I have no access to it):

The novel has not a traditional structure. It is built by voices. Each collaborator writes a text (around 30 pages A4) interpreting the theme — the theme is in the round robin section — in his/her own way. Th title of each chapter will be the name of its author. Each author (or voice) can choose the name he likes — a little detail for the final version. The chapters, so entitled, may be intermingled throughout the book. This means that Allein's text, for instance, may be just ONE chapter of the book or SEVERAL chapters : 3.7, 10... The tango teacher will be chapters 1, 4, 9...for instance... and he, like everybody else, will tell his own experience of the event. The event is the preparation, the meeting and its aftermath of the writers in a five stars hotel in New York. Please do not hesitate e-mailing me if you need more guidelines.

P.S.1. Each voice (or chapter/s) needs not be published in the round robin room only when it is completed. It would be nice if the extracts of your masterpieces could influence the others - for the sake of a better intercourse.

P.S.2. Now that we have everything, even the structure, I expect the novel to be concluded before May.

P.S.3. If I don't get enough support, I will write the novel in Portuguese and I'll be the only one to get rich and famous. Don't tell me I did not warn you!

And finally, our own *round robin* would rather be called *straight robin*. Also: who is a genius?

Well, people: love me and I'll forgive you everything.

Second message (I can't get connected to the internet):

Lena : what am I, after all? A provocative chap or a flatterer? Those two things are contradictory. And, I also thougt I would live for ever. I WAS wrong. (I am a vampire now, as the smartest of you have alrady certainly understood. Just look at the times of my posts!)

Allein — don't get a job, you already have one, you are a writer.

Allein Tue Mar 23 15:51:54 PST 1999

UPDATE - as of today, Chapters 12 and 13 are up on my website, see the address above na.

Have a plesant day. :)

Allein Tue Mar 23 15:16:40 PST 1999

Rachel - I had to turn the baby back in on Monday. I got a perfect score - no abuse marks or neglect marks. :) I'm gonna be a good parent someday.

Hey all. I'm finally gonna get off my butt and get a......a job!! I've finally come to terms with the fact that I DESPERATELY need money and good,, is the only way to get it. At least until I turn 18, then I buy a Lotto ticket. :) Actually, the jobs I'm applying for aren't so bad and they pay well. One is a baby-sitting job and the other is work at a retirement home (best of all, I think it's the one my friend works at). The other alternative is a yardwork job - yuck! Sure, I could always do fast food, but I'm too good for fast food. Just kidding. :)

Well, I should go.
Bai bai and many hugs to you all,
Allein Tue Mar 23 14:57:37 PST 1999

SKS- careful with Century, their response times are horrible, and they have produced very few issues. They still seem to be foundering about.

If you go to you get an excellent list of average response times for markets you're sending to. Also, always remember that stories, even for the pros, can accumulate many many rejections. Just keep sending along.
TB Tue Mar 23 13:11:24 PST 1999

Arly : ideas, when stripped of fictional treatment, really do soound stupid. Actually, no ideas are worth developing if not thought impossible by others. That's why I like to think of a novel as language mainly. Of course, this doesn't necessarly apply to science fiction or detective stories.

Lena : feminine and masculine literature. Very interesting topic. Some of my favorite writers are feminine: Marcel Proust comes to mind immediately. It's not the sex of the writer but the tone of the writing that makes the distinction.

Lena Tue Mar 23 12:55:40 PST 1999

Hullo all,

Rachel - Yes, yes, please write for us!

Has anybody ever read Spider Robinson's short stories about Callahan's Place? Well, to make a long (short?) story short (hmm) they are the story of a bar called Callahan's place, and in that bar every Tuesday is Punday. You have Sunday, Monday, and Punday. My friends and I adopted this tradition last year, and every Tuesday on the bus ride home we would pick a topic and pun to our heart's content. The tradition of Punday has died this year, because my punning buddies and I do not see each other as often, but it was fun while it lasted.

So... Happy Punday!

Jack - Feel better soon. And, though I hate to burden you with problems, the Notebook is taking an awfully long time to come up.

For all the cat people on this Notebook, I just finished a sweet little book called "The Book of Night with Moon," by Diane Duane. It is fantasy, and set in the Wizardry series by Duane, but it is a stand-alone novel. This book made me wish I owned a cat, so I assume those who already own a cat (are owned by a cat?) would get an even bigger kick out of it.

I have pages of ideas, and am trying to put them all on a disk at the moment. I used to keep a writing journal for these things, but I am bad at stuff like that and it soon died... can't say I didn't try, though.

SKS - Thank you for Wet Ware, I'll read it as soon as I can.

Allein - Same with your story. You sure are writing up a storm! (unlike me... oh, guilty shudder)

Agsousa - Are you trying to tell me, with your philosophizing on beauty, health, and youth, that I'm NOT going to live forever? Where did you get a silly idea like that? My goodness.

But, um, seriously - thank you, Agsousa, for everything you have written. I enjoy Shadows in a Dream, and I am glad you decided to help set it up for all of us to write it, and... just everything else you contribute, even your Gwyneth and that irascible Cat Next Door. You are a flatterer, but still it makes me smile to read what you have written. Thank you.

"There's a feeling I get, when I look to the west..."

Lena Tue Mar 23 12:55:36 PST 1999

Hullo all,

Rachel - Yes, yes, please write for us!

Has anybody ever read Spider Robinson's short stories about Callahan's Place? Well, to make a long (short?) story short (hmm) they are the story of a bar called Callahan's place, and in that bar every Tuesday is Punday. You have Sunday, Monday, and Punday. My friends and I adopted this tradition last year, a

S.K.S. Perry Tue Mar 23 11:56:32 PST 1999

Hey all,

S.N. Arly,

I keep track of ideas pretty much the same way you do. I have a folder on my computer called ideas. Some are complete with basic character work ups, plot outlines and whatever else I think might be useful to the story. Others are just thoughts along the lines of "What if everyone in the world could suddenly see 10 years into the future for a brief instant. (I really liked that one, and apparently so did Robert Sawyer, because he wrote a book with that idea. Oh well, you snooze, you lose.) I've had other great ideas for stories that I've lost because I was too stupid to write them down. ("I know I'll remember this one, cause it's great." Ya, right!!)

Rachel, I pretty much figured you just scrawled out story ideas wherever the mood stikes you - in lipstick on the bathroom mirrior, in crayon on the walls, in icing and baked onto cakes, and shaved onto the side of Dan's head :)

Lydia, I envy you your convention. I live in the middle of a black whole as far as they go, and they're obviously a great place to make connections.

Be Well, Live Well.

Rachel Tue Mar 23 11:10:36 PST 1999

Hey all

S.N.Arly - Hi you!

On your topic. I keep an ideas file on a disk. It is there along with my 36 unfinished stories. Sometimes the ideas end up on an envelope or a napkin, but I make every effort to drop them onto a disk.

This file of course is a living breathing nightmare. Nothing but a little dash seperates one idea from the next. (if SKS is reading this he is laughing thinking about how I don't use much more to seperate ideas in my writing)

I don't go into the idea file very often because I feel so guilty about all the other unfinished stories. I just can't start anymore before I either delete them or complete them.

Now that I am on the computer it would seen that my days of shredding and burning are over. I have to say that deleting a story is not nearly as dramatic as lighting a big fire and feeding them in one page at a time.

Hum, perhaps I will need to print them off so I can burn or shred them. I think I miss doing that.

Agsousa - Hey there

Its nice to know I am not being ignored. What you said left me feeling that perhaps you do not think I am a complete moron. Hum, maybe I will even post something in your shadows.

I have been working up a half baked sideways look at myself that might work well.

Allein - How's that little battery operated baby of yours?

Lydia - Nice to see yah back

Take care all

Lydia Sweet Tue Mar 23 10:45:49 PST 1999

Hi all,

I am back from the conference. I met agents Evan Marshall of the Marshall agency and Eileen Fallon of the Fallon agency. Very helpful friendly people. I didn't have a finished manuscript so I didn't make an appointment with either of them, however, my friend that attended with me spoke with Mr. Marshall and he has asked her to send her MS to him for him to read. I understand this is very good as they won't request this if they are not interested. By the way, Mr. Marshall also has a book on novel writing. I bought it. I figured is this man has an idea of how to write and I might want him to represent me, it might be wise to have a good idea of what he expects.

Susan Elizabeth Phillips (romance author) was the main speaker. I was able to meet Virginia Brown a published author of 24 books and share a good bit of conversation with her. She gave me her e-mail and phone number! She loves my time period and is willing to help me find needed resource materials and discuss writing in general. NICE lady.

I will probably not be in attendance very often for the next few months as I will be researching the necessary information to open my own business. This includes trying to find all available sources of financing. (I can't believe this is actually happening, but my husband is supporting me in this venture, even though it could mean a potentially big loss of income.) I expect it all to be quite time consuming. I hope I can still get some writing done.

I'm also in the process of refinancing my home and have been running around trying to round up all the necessary documents for that transaction.

SKS Perry - I have to tell you my computer crashed this morning and I lost everything on my hard drive. That includes the 3 chapters of "Naejin" you had sent to me. I hadn't had the opportunity to print them yet. Will you please send them again?

Rhoda - I did get the chapters you sent of "Valerie's Song"
and have read them. I'll try to send you my thoughts in the next day or so.

Cross your fingers AND your toes that I can get the financing for the business!

Very excited!


S.N.Arly Tue Mar 23 10:40:20 PST 1999

Lena - Hate that wet bricks look. I was laughing at your puns. I just didn't realize that's why I was laughing.

Agsousa/Amerigo - When you boil most stories down to the basics of the idea, they all seem a little... well... stupid. I just wrote a story about a person whose spirit gets stuck in a necklace when she dies. Not too exciting sounding when you look at it that way.

W. Olivia - Have you tried sending it MZB? She just might like it. You've got some great stuff in there, and she's a sucker for magic with women. Although I suppose she may consider it a witch woman story, in which case she'd reject it, but then again, she does have fast turn around time, too.

Topic, topic? We've been topicless (hmm sounds indecent) for so long and I'm ready to pick up that angle again. Anyone else?

How about this: How do you store or keep track of your ideas for future stories? If I don't write down something I'll lose the idea, so I have a list of story ideas, some shorts some novels. Some of them only include a phrase such as "the man in the loud pantsuit" which will trigger the idea again. Others get a couple of paragraphs to ensure that I get all the iportant stuff (if there's not a word or phrase that will trigger the memory).

So what do you do?

"You be me for a while, and I'll be you."
- The Replacements

Xavier Tue Mar 23 08:45:51 PST 1999

Hello fellow wrirers!

I have been absent from this board for over a week due to spring break, and my eyes hurt from reading all the posts I missed! Let me tell you, spring break is hell! I can only check my e-mail or this board from school, as I have no internet access from home. I spent the whole week sleeping too much, staying up way too late, and doing nothing constructive! I know it sounds like a dream come true, but when i suddenly lose structure in my life, I get depressed and lazy. With all that time, however, guess how much writing I got done? NONE! not one word! Truly a sad experiance! I did spend the weekend at my friends college in Staten Island, and went out to the night clubs in N.Y.C. We had a blast. I'm back at school now, and I'm back into the swing of things again. No writing yet, I've been in a lull lately.
It is nice to be back on here, though. Hope every one is well.

Be cool;


S.K.S. Perry Tue Mar 23 06:03:29 PST 1999

Hey all,

Lena, Wet Ware a masterpiece? I seriously doubt that. I do think however, that it's good enough to publish. As for misunderstood - I don't think it's deep enough to be misunderstood :-)

I had posted it to the workbook a while back, but I think it got lost when the Net Gremlins trashed Jack's Archives. Rather than bore anyone here who's all ready read it and take up Jack's valuable server space, I'll send it to you by E-mail. If anyone else would like to have a look at it, just let me know and I'll send it along.

By the way, I've decided to send it to Century next, and should be mailing it out today.

Be Well, Live Well. Tue Mar 23 04:53:05 PST 1999

Ohayoo Gozaimasu!
(Translation in the short-story smoking-room)

Rachel: you are absolutely wrong if you think I ignore you. I know a lot about you because I read everything you write (well, almost everything). I think you have a lively style, a very sincere one. I like that. I like people that talk about the little things of life. I like human beings not literatti. Literatti can never be great writers. They are made of paper, not of the human tragi-comedy we call life - the only stuff literature can be made of. BTW, language is also life.

Hootie : you are right. Writers need not be miserable or unhappy. However, dealing with success and failure (both sides of the same coin) is a very painful thing. I am a so-so happy fellow. I'm glad I am not too happy. That's very stupid when there is so much suffering around. I am happy when I write or when I am intensely involved with a project. I'm miserable when I have nothing to be in love with. The only important thing in life is health. Not beauty or youth. Beauty is awfully transitory, and no-one feels his or her youth. There is nothing special in youth, except... health (again). There is nothing special in age, except...lack of health (of course). This is a triviality but it's a great truth. I feel well (no bugs, Jack) so...

Rhoda : I never lose a chance of writing. What I did for my friend was just what I most love in life: writing. Nothing else. Perhaps I shouldn't have done that, though, because we were very hopeful for some months and then a little depressed. Of the two I was the one that enjoyed most. But I learned that one shouldn't give too much advice or hope. Probably the best teacher I had was the one that laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a writer.

Lena and Allein: did you hear what I have just said?

All: I'm glad to inform you that Gwyneth is well now. After a tremendous bout of loneliness on the day after, she put on her shabbiest jeans and went for a walk. She wanted to cry by the river but on her way she met a little black boy and went for a walk with him instead. She let him buy candy for her and they became great friends. Now that she has somebody to love and admire she doesn't feel a puppet under the lights anymore. She also bought a blue dress (a very simple dress) and had a different hair cut, so she is as pretty as when we loved each other. I don't mind she didn't e-mail me. You can't compete with happiness.

Hootie Tue Mar 23 03:38:59 PST 1999

Agsousa--I don't think a writer hasd to be miserable and depressed in order to be good. Unless of course, you want all of your books to lack a certain basic hope that keeps most of us going from day to day.

Allein--The only thing I have to say about Titanic is this: when I saw it, I was stil in the navy, and stationed on a ship. That was the last thing my wife and I really wanted to see was a movie about a ship that sinks and almost everyone drowns, but we saw it because her mother thinks she looks like Kate Winslet.

No quote handy today, but keep the puns flying!

Allein Mon Mar 22 22:01:52 PST 1999

Jack - something's going around, quite a few of my friends are sick and so is my mom. Anyway, I hope you feel better soon. Many hugs.

Rachel - I know they are insensitive. They didn't even cry at the end of Titanic. I mean, some movies aren't sad but this was TITANIC!! I cried, but not so much for the characters, more because, like, it actually happened in real life, but you can't really relate to it because it was so long ago and you only hear stories. But when you see the movie, it's like you are there and you're watching what actually happened and it's a little overwelming to finally understand that this happened and lots of people died. And if only they'd had the technology we do now, then the entire tragedy could have been avoided. Although, I do think that they jinxed it a little by saying that the ship was unsinkable. One line was "God Himself could not sink this ship". Well, God (if you believe in God) proved them wrong.

NIE-way, I could go on and on about the Titanic, so I'm just gonna stop here before I bore you to death. I don't want lots of lawsuits on my hands (I also don't want to lose my friends - I consider you all to be friends now). :)
Bai Bai,

"I'm out of bed and dressed, what more do you want?" - T-shirt

Rachel Mon Mar 22 21:22:13 PST 1999

Allein - I have read your story up to but not including the two chapters you just sent to me.

By the way, congrats on pulling off two more chapters. Go Allein, Go Allein, Go, Go, Go Allein. (My own cheer just for you)

I do not think that Allein is a cry baby. I think that crying is a perfectly natural reaction for somebody who is feeling traped, helpless and in complete and utter dispair. Obviously whoever would come up with such a comment lacks compassion and is not understanding the story at all.

All I can say is look at this person with pity because theirs is a world lived in a narrow focus. I can think of no fate so sad as that of a person who lives life with a narrow focus. They miss so very much.

Thats all I've go to say on that

Take care of you


AGSOUSA - Had to be sure I had your attention. I am fairly convinced that you ignore me.

Anyway if you read this I just want you to know that I read your posts. I enjoy them, well at least most of them.

Take care of you


Jack Beslanwitch Mon Mar 22 21:01:17 PST 1999

Hello all: I may be a bit absent for a while. I seem to have come down with some kind of bug. I will not go into details, they are too gruesome ;-), but I fell like warmed over rat droppings and have a bunch of things I should be doing. I will be in touch. Take care.

Allein Mon Mar 22 20:37:25 PST 1999

Hiya all - sorry I didn't leave a longer post last time, but my mom wanted to use the phone and my brother had homework to do on the computer (and in our house homework is first priority).

Okay, question: Who here (who's read my story) honestly thinks that Allein is a crybaby? I'm asking because one of my friends said that he was but I'm thinking: with what he has to go through, he has the right. Although, since he does cry quite a bit in the story, I'm just asking so possibly to fix this habit of his.

NIE-way, I have not much more to say, so I will go now.
Bai bai,

"I do whatever the voices in my head tell me to do - and four out of five of them tell me to call in sick." - T-shirt

"An apple a day keeps the doctor away - if you have a hard throw and an accurate aim." - get well greeting card

Rhoda Mon Mar 22 19:25:00 PST 1999


I am laughing. Really I am. I just can't enunciate the sound as well as Allein can. I love puns and you are welcome to punish me anytime. Don't let anyone convince you that puns are the lowest form of humor. It is simply not true. Shakespeare used them all the time.


How sweet you are to fix a friend's manuscript. Actually there is only so much you can do to help someone. One never knows what publishers will publish and what they will turn down. I hope your friend kept trying and refused to be crushed by that one initial defeat. Your books sound interesting and I love to hear about them. I am also gratified to know that there isn't too much to doing screen-plays. I have occasionally had ideas for some and would love to write one someday. The market here in the States for book publishing is extremely tight. It seems that even published writers are having a rough time selling their material. I got two rejections today from agencies who are no longer reviewing queries or sample chapters because they are having a hard enough time selling the work of their current clients. As long as certain indivuals like your neighbor, Herr Bartelman, wish to corner the world-wide publishing market, things will remain tough for people wishing to be published.

I have resolved to stop mailing out queries for the time being. The only one benefitting from this exercise in futility appears to be the United States Postal Service. I think it time to hit the keyboard and start chruning out more books and continuing to develop my talent. The world can survive a few more years without my books being on the shelves.


I'm sorry about your rejections. Three isn't really so bad. Many famous people have had more on the books that launched their careers. Still, it is rough. I hope to read this story someday after I finish NAEJIN.

Well, I had better get some much need sleep. Happy writing, everyone!


"It's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission." S.K.S. Perry, NAEJIN, chapter 7.

W. Olivia Mon Mar 22 19:20:38 PST 1999

Hi all. Finally getting the chance to catch up on postings. I have been writing like a madwoman. I hope this keeps up. Am working on submitting two to the short stories. I'm considering sending Chovihani to Realms of Fantasy. The other one is a bit harder to market but I'm thinking of sending it to Dreams of Decadence just to see what kind of rejection I'll get. This is the part I hate the most--running home from work everyday to see only bills (expected) or rejections (dreaded). Ah, such is a writers life I guess...

SKS: I like WetWare no matter what they say. Keep trying!!!

Lena: I am very honored to be considered "hip"; It's what I never was as a kid and now strive for as an adult :)

Hootie: I'll add you to my buddy list on AOL; that way I can find you easier.

"Do you listen to yourself/never live for someone else/Do you like the way your feel/Nothing hurts when no one's real." Goo Goo Dolls

"Runs with scissors" --found on a T-shirt at the mall. I must be strange because it actually made me laugh... Mon Mar 22 19:19:05 PST 1999

I wonder what Gwyneth is doing right now. Probably with a big headache of all that champagne last night. She puked in her nurse's arms. And then it was a problem for her butler to take off all her wet underware and put her into bed. Her mouth tasted to cod fish in vinegar this morning. She didn't send me any e-mails. Well, she doesn't know a mac from a pc, anyway. And I don't love her any more.

If I got the Nobel prize I'd appear at the ceremony completely drunk and my speech would be like the one of James Dean in "The Giant". I like unhappy people. Perhaps because I don't understand happy people. They seem so stupid to me! A writer must be unhappy, and desperate and romantic and oh, so stupid. Boa noite!

Allein Mon Mar 22 18:25:01 PST 1999

Lena - HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! There - happy? :) I sent those chapters to you.

Cassandra - that's okay. :)

Bai bai,

"Hanging is too good for a man who makes puns; he should be drawn and quoted." - Fred Allen Mon Mar 22 18:12:20 PST 1999

All my ideas for novels were stupid. My dream for the first was to write about a man completely alone in a flat he could hardly recognize waiting for a woman who would never come. Eventually the only character would NOT go to that flat. It would be just a novel in his head. Well, it worked.

When I saw that that book was going to be published I was in panic. I felt prisoner of the style of that book and immediately decided I would make fun of all novels. So I wrote my second novel. The three first chapters are in the Novels section. That book had a lot of success and a film, of which I wrote the screenplay — I know a little bit of cinema writing but, believe me, a writer doesn’t need to know much technique to write a screenplay — was made. The novel was also (as was the first) translated into Rumanian, a language which I don’t know. So this project also ended well.

The third novel was the one I like best. It’s called "Where the Shadow Falls" and it has obviously an epigraph extracted from a poem by T.S. Eliot. I know you like him too, Michele. The novel makes a lot of fun of Freud. Isn’t that stupid? Well, it was at the time I started writing it.

I wrote more books and I intended to talk about them and how they were based on very stupid ideas. But I get so tired of speaking about my books! Anyway, I have the impression that no one here reads my post when they are longer than one line. I’m glad you don’t. Maybe that way you’ll still love me for a couple more days.

Cassandra Mon Mar 22 18:02:19 PST 1999

Hi all,

Just finished a really good work out. I'm gonna feel this in the morning...

Sorry I had to dart off of Instant Messager like that. I was making plans with my friend Kyle to do some much needed exercise. I have little to no endurance anymore. In desperate need of energy and strength as well. It's good getting to talk to someone a little younger, but obviously intelligent every once in a while. Lifts my hopes for the next generation. At least there's one or two smart ones :)

Whew, let me tell you... my legs are gonna ache like the devil. But I seriously need a little more muscle on this tiny harmless frame of a body.

Need to shower in a sec... and do a little work on next semester's schedule.

'later peeps


"Every journey begins with a single step" -chinese proverb Mon Mar 22 17:28:03 PST 1999

Lena — the character you've invented seems very good. I have copied the round robin thing to Word98, so that I start editing it. It has already 6 pages — above 2500 words. You have been the best supporter of the project. I sometimes think I'd better stick to my own projects, but I reckon this is an interesting experiment. I have already thought of writing it alone in my own languqge — it's not easy for me to think everything in English as the vocabulary is scarce. But I can't do it, because the book is not mine anymore, it belongs to all of us.

I have a friend living in Paris who for many years tried to find a publisher for a novel he wrote. I read it and decided that the book deserved a lot of editing. For a fortnight I locked myself in my little flat (I work in a smal flat in Estoril, just by the sea) and on thursdays I go to another (bigger) flat in Lisbon. I like being alone for three or for days in the week and when I am with you that's because I am alone. I can't write except when I am alone, unless when I already have a first version or am correcting. Well, so I locked myself and completely rewrote my friend's novel. He was delighted and we both thought that the book would get a publisher. I took it to my own publisher. But the story was too real (an experience in codfish fishing in Greenland if I still remember) and the publisher did not publish the book. I promised to myself never to nourish hopes to anybody because people suffer very much when they do not get a publisher. It's better to be quiet. Why am I saying this? Perhaps because I am really sorry for all those in this forum who can't get published. And you know the feeling, Lena, as you have expressed it very well some time ago when you told us about your friend who is such a good unpublished writer. I myself don't know if I get a publisher for my future books. I haven't published since 1995 and in this world people get forgotten very quicky. And my last book was a bit of a failure. Well, I think I'm going to publish this and then write about my last book.

I don't play any musical instrument, Lena. But I love classical music. I'm not very fond of jazz. I like Gershwin — the closest composer to jazz I can enjoy.

Lena Mon Mar 22 16:31:42 PST 1999

SKS Perry - Is Wet Ware on the Workbook? I would like to read your misunderstood masterpiece that keeps getting unjustly rejected.

Agsousa - You play clarinet? I do, although I am slightly out of practice. I also play the piano, although I am a rogue talent at best. I have never had piano lessons so I mostly sit around and pound off notes and chords that sound good. Nothing really major... only minor.

I should really give up. I was in a punning mood today, a really bad punning mood, and NOBODY LAUGHED. Nobody even ran away screaming and clutching their head, the highest form of compliment for a pun. I felt like such an idiot afterwards, when everyone would stare at me this blank expression that implied my sense of humor could easily be compared to a wet bricks - nonexistent. Darn it, somebody LAUGH!

My character in the story is a young woman, newly released from the prison some call school, and taking a year off to travel and see the world. Starting, of course, with the Notebook convention... she longs for freedom and a chance to work on her music and writing. She is quite an insensitive girl, actually, and does not see the value of the people in her life, only herself. Self-reliant to a fault. Should be fun.

Allein - I am afraid I am getting behind in your story... I have only read up to chapter eight! Would it be possible for you to e-mail me the rest? I would be most grateful, as my internet time is currently restricted and I can't take the time to get the story off your website.

Does virgin wool come from sheep the shepherd hasn't caught yet? (oh, blush. Is anybody laughing YET?)

S.K.S. Perry Mon Mar 22 10:45:45 PST 1999

Hey all,

For those of you who are keeping track, I sent Wet Ware to Asimov's on 13 Feb 99, and I received a rejection letter (standard form letter rejection) for it on 18 Mar 99. Not a bad turn around, considering it's mailed from Canada and has to go through customs and all. As soon as I figure out who to send it to next, I'll mail it out again. By the way, that's three rejections for that particular story: Asimov's, Analog, and Science Fiction and Fantasy.

Be Well, Live Well. Mon Mar 22 09:58:16 PST 1999

Gwyneth Paltrow got the little statue! I almost cried of joy, though I didn't like her hairdo for the occasion. And pink and blond are too rosy for me. I like a bit of *salero* (not too much). Actually I can't understand why a human being cries when he/she gets an award. I have won three literary prizes and I felt so empty! Of course I was furious when I did not get any for my fist book. The contradictions of one's soul (may I use this word?)! If I got an Oscar I would behave like Tom Stoppard or, if had drunk two or three whiskies to give me courage, like Roberto. You are so beautiful, oh Americans! You feel, you shout, you cry! I really like you — though I don't like some of your policies: who does? By the way, I liked to see that Nick Nolte (? — I'm bad at actors's names: a chap with a handsome horse's face) did not applaud Kazan. How can one forgive someone who has betrayed and caused suffering to fellow cinema people? Elia Kazan: you owe us all an apoloy as big as the universe!

I am aware of the need for characters, Lena. My tango dancer is my character. You people have to invent yours. People, we need characters and some action in the Shadows! I browsed a cybernetic American novel in a bookshop this weekend. I can't remember its title. It was bad stuff. Ours will have to be better. I have got it (vaguely) in my head, but I can only give some cues, because this is a collective work and collaborators must feel free to write whatever the theme suggests to them without being straightjacketed by someone else's ideas. Anyway, as far as the tango dancer is concerned, he will understand in America that e-mailing or e-posting is not very different from the older means of people communicating. And, as he had idealised his international friends while he was away, he starts missing his little world back home — and a new idealization begins in his mind. Of course, this if someone does not kill him or something. (Wouldn't it be interesting if he had a duel with Arly?)

Gwyneth — you probably e-mailed me several times on the Oscar night. Sorry I didn't have time to check that yet.

Meg Ryan — Don't be jealous. I also love you.

ALL : if Tom Stoppard and the other guy got an Oscar for a just so-so screenplay, what can we get if we really dedicate a bit of our time and talent to our novel? Rhoda will make the speech at the Academy's theatre. I'd rather play clarinet with Woody Allen in New York on that night. We small, ughly people understand each other nicely. And, Gwyneth, stop crying, don't make a fool of yourself: the glory of the day is the despair of the night. Good sentence, this one.

Spring : it's here.

Rachel Mon Mar 22 09:09:41 PST 1999

Hiyah Allein

Got the chapters.

Take care you


Cassandra Mon Mar 22 07:35:23 PST 1999

Almost forgot...


a kiss for every year


Cassandra Mon Mar 22 07:32:32 PST 1999

Hi all,

For starters the webpage I'm sharing under my name has nothing to do with writing. It's just the cutest little thing, and I thought it would put a smile on a few people's faces. :)

Well, life is hectic, I've got to get to Color Theory class in about a half hour, and I desperately need to do some more sketches. Why couldn't I have done them last night like a good college student???

Oh, for any of you on AOL, I have a screen name there as well. If you ever just feel like dropping me an Instant message when I'm on, that'd be just hunky dorey with me. It's: ImagineF16 (and no I'm not 16, and it's not the F16 fighter jet either... I explain later.)

Have to run. Catch ya on da flip side homeys (could that sound more awkward than coming out of a very small pale white girl??)



"They're coming to take me away haha, they're coming to take me away"

Hootie Sun Mar 21 21:25:57 PST 1999

Happy Birthday to the Notebook! It's hard to believe what a mature 3 year old we have.

Lena--I think that men and women look at the world in different ways, but it's really hard to pin down. It's not a simple matter of "Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus". It's also a matter of who you are as a person. James Tiptree Jr. was a woman writing SF, but nobody knew for a long time. Then when the secret was revealed, everyone said, "Oh! I thought there was something different about those books!"

Olivia--I can't wait until we are both online together. And I guess that can be extended to everyone: I CAN CHAT NOW!

Rachel Sun Mar 21 21:02:06 PST 1999

Hey all

I'm back! Had a fun, fantastic weekend. I of course am exhausted beyond words, but hey what else would happen at a Karate camp.

I was relieved to see that the notebook was not overly active on the weekend and it didn't take long at all to get caught up.

Ah well I have to run on over and check out the workbook.

Take care all


S.N.Arly Sun Mar 21 19:48:47 PST 1999

Just back after a weekend away, with the Dragon (had to lug the big old Ubermoo with us). But I finished a new short! YEEEEEE HAAAWW! Ok, that was me sounding like the redneck I never was. Though I was just in redneck country. Actually, though, I am really excited. I haven't written anything since... geeze it was probably November when I last finished somehting. Maybe early December. But the Dragon has shown me the way, and being the adaptable human species that I am,...

Goodweed/Toby - I too miss some of the old faces, and while change is good, sometimes it comes with a price.

Jack - Happy Birthday to the notebook.

SKS - It's not ALWAYS who you knw, although it definitely helps. In the next year or so I plan to do a lot of CONing. Not really my bag, but I'll do what I gotta. I'm currently schmoozing (oh, networking, I mean) from three removes and that's not quite cutting it. There is hope for those of us who write better than some of the stuff that shows up in the pro zines.

Michele - Relax and take it easy. Know any meditation? Might want to try some. I find it quite helpful. Although I also found kata worked the last time I had a cluster headache. It happened to be at my brown belt test, so this was a good thing. Anyway, the stress of the whole plagarism thing had to not help.

To All - Happy Alban Eiler (Equinox), a day late. Happy Spring to those of us who might see an actual change in season.

Can't type for long. Still healing.

"When you're young and defensive, it comes off offensive,
and it's hard to repay the tolerance that you've borrowed."
- Soul Asylum

Allein Sun Mar 21 19:09:19 PST 1999

Hey all! I finished Chapters 12 and 13 of my story but they're not on my webpage yet. I'm going to do that soon. But if you can't wait to find out what happens and you ask really nicely, I'll e-mail them to you. :)

Jack - cool banner/picture thingy!!

Well, bai bai,

Lena Sun Mar 21 18:22:15 PST 1999

Happy (early) birthday to you, happy (early) birthday to you, happy (early) birthday dear Notebook, happy (early) birthday to you!

Had a fun weekend. Working with kids is interesting... you never know what they are going to say. I also slogged through a LOT of mud this weekend, the trails and roads at the camp were awful. Blech. I never fully understood the phrase "squeaky squelch" until this weekend... I have seen a lot of mud, but never mud that squeaked!

Olivia - A hip mother, eh? Be honored!

I am whittling away the time right now, waiting for a call from a friend, listening to the Beatles, and wanting very dearly to talk with the aforementioned friend. Ho hum.

Do you think that there is a difference between the way males and females write? I was discussing this with someone, and we both agreed that there is some difference but could not pin it down. A difference in the way opinions are expressed, the words used, the type of humor? My writing has always bothered me as being "typically female," but I could not say why. And yet, when you are online and cannot tell gender by... well, by looking (oh, that was a bad way to put it), you often have an idea about whether a person is male or female. You might be wrong, but oftentimes you are correct. What is the subtle difference?

I was on TV earlier today, as a player in a quiz game show for teenagers. It is a local show, but it was still fun. It was interesting to watch my facial expressions and habits through out the show... I discovered I have the stupidest looking smile, and an annoying habit of tapping my pencil. Still, I enjoy the notoriety of now being a television personality, so to speak.

Haven't done much fiction writing for a while. I wrote the piece for Shadows in a Dream on a flash of inspiration (it hit me on the head with a rubber mallet and dragged me kicking and screaming...) and not much else. However, I have written several lovely non-fiction pieces (Thomas and Michelle, take note!), my favorite being a paper of Theodore Roosevelt. He was quite a character. I have also written a short report on Woodrow Wilson, America's Black Press, an analysis for Psychology class, and a mock-eulogy for disco.

This long enough? I still haven't been called yet, and if my friend doesn't call soon I won't have anything left to talk to her about!

I started golf practice this week. I have been on the varsity girl's golf team for two years, this being my third year, and it was amazing because last Thursday one of the coaches finally managed to teach me the trick of hitting a golf ball straight. Don't laugh! I can hit the ball far, that is my talent... if I could actually aim where the ball goes, now that would be the ultimate. My poor coach has been keeping me on varsity on the hopes that I will straighten out (pardon the pun), the poor guy. I am hoping.

Okay, okay, I believe I babbled on long enough. Have a great nigh...

Oops, wait. I have a comment to make on Shadows in a Dream. It is all lovely so far, but please remember that eventually we need all the characters to meet at that convention. I had my character doing her musing on Life, the Universe, and Everything while sitting in an airport, just waiting for that plane to come along and whisk her away to Jack's little get-together, just waiting to meet everybody else.

Okay, OKAY! Goodnight!

"I'd like to be under the sea, in an octopus's garden in the shade..." -Beatles

Jack Beslanwitch Sun Mar 21 16:31:05 PST 1999

Given that the Notebook's birthday falls on part of Norwescon I will not be that close to a computer for most of the day, I will still say we should probably try to have some sort of party either on the chat room or some such in the near future. Philip if you are listening or any of the others of the lurkers please chime in and say hello. Or not. In any case, here is something to commemorate things by:

W.Olivia Sun Mar 21 10:37:09 PST 1999

Hi all. I have survived yet another of my daughters sleepovers. So strange looking back even ten years ago that I would be comfortable with children. Being an only child I was never sure of myself around these unformed, yet strangely intelligent creatures that we bring to life... ah well, apparently I am a very "hip" mother and can only expect more sleepovers and parties. I like it!

Hootie: Got your e-mail. Catch that pesky cough and throw him away okay! I've missed our e-mails buddy.

SKS- I agree about publication and its iffyness. I collect dozens of magazines and only on a few occasions can I honestly say that the writers have captured even an iota of the talent I see on our Workbook.

Anyway, I have been writing furiously. I wrote a story a few months ago (the one that got accepted but which is still not published) set in a post-apocolyptic New York thousands of years after nuclear war and a great computer virus have made technology obsolete. On a suggestion from a friend I've written two more stories set in this world, one before this time period --Age of Zero-- and after. Now I'm condidering a novel, with others stories told by different protagonists. I've never done anything this close to SF but I am intrigued by the idea of combining SF, horror and fantasy in one novel.

Everyone, enjoy what's left of the weekend and...

Good Writing

S.K.S. Perry Sun Mar 21 10:02:07 PST 1999

Hey all,

I've been doing a lot of critiquing lately, for a lot of different writers. Sometimes I've just read stuff friends have written. And while there is a lot of amaturish stuff out there, there's a lot of really good writing too.

The reason I'm mentioning this is that I suscribe to several of the big name SF&F mags, mostly just to get a feel for the market, but also because before I had dreams of becoming a writer, like most of you, I was a reader first.

Maybe it's just me; perhaps my tastes are not discerning enough, or I don't know enough about the technical or literary aspects of writing, but I find it impossible to figure out why these mags publish some of the stories they do, while other fine works are rejected summarily.

I've read several SF&F short stories lately that I thought had all the earmarks of a good yarn - something I would definately buy and enjoy - yet was informed by their authors that they had suffered multiple rejections.

In one of the current mags that I suscribe to - well, let's just say I wasn't impressed. One story wasn't bad, but the author didn't seem to know how to end it. The next story I thought was pointless, and a third I couldn't even finish.

In the end, I've come to the conclusion that being published or not is pretty much a crap shoot, and hey, I stand just as much a chance as the next guy. All I have to do is get my foot in the door. Apparently, that's the hardest part. As Thomas has so often remarked: "It's who you know."

Be Well, Live Well.

Cassandra Sun Mar 21 09:34:40 PST 1999

Good morning, or rather afternoon all

I just woke up a little over an hour ago, and came to the realization that I've never visited the notebook in the morning. Since I might be tied up tonight (figuratively, not literally, unfortunately j/k) I thought it best that I make an attempt to see what's going on here.

Thanks for the compliment. I usually concern myself with things other than myself. It lends to an interesting personality, and some creative ideas, but it also has a bit of a downside to it. Since I don't pay attention to myself as much, I end up not getting what I want out of situations. But, at least I contribute to making others feel better, and perhaps cluing them in to following my example. It's lonely being considerate, compassionate, and empathetic...

I have to continue the search for my checkbook once more, because I fell asleep last night without finding it.

'Later all


"You've got to dance like there's nobody watching, love like you'll never get hurt, sing like there's nobody listening, and live like it's Heaven on Earth." - ?

Michele Sun Mar 21 09:01:34 PST 1999

Hi !


Thanks for the sympathy - hopefully once my Easter vacation starts the migraines will depart properly (my head is a lot better today - touch wood !) - I am in dire need of rest that's all !


Are we having a party to celebrate the Notebook's 3rd birthday ? I think we should !


I have spent the afternoon working on my war memorials project - and trying not to cry all over my essay notes - not too easy, believe me ! Tomorrow I have to hand in my critical analysis of Robert Frost's Mending Wall, an intriguing poem, which I quite enjoyed analysing...

Anyway I should get back to my essay notes and see if I can make them make sense without getting them blurry...

Talk to you all later...


You can win the fight, you can grab a piece of the sky,
You can break the rules but before you try,
You gotta love someone,
You gotta love someone.

-- Elton John (c)1990 Happenstance Ltd.

Jack Beslanwitch Sun Mar 21 01:00:47 PST 1999

Tobie: The Notebook began life April 2, 1996. So, we are coming up on three years this coming April 2. Somehow I thought it was longer, but the Archives do not lie. But I do have to agree that there are a lot of new faces and silence from a lot of the old faces. Of course, part of that is life and jobs and family and other pressures weighing in at times. Still, some of those old faces pop in here and there. Phillip does on occasion, as does Charles and others. Still, I like the fresh freewheeling way of the Notebook and interaction of many new faces such as Allein and Agsousa and everyone else. Take care everyone.

Rhoda Sat Mar 20 23:53:17 PST 1999


You just reminded me of some advice I read today from a writing book I have been reading. It suggests that you take a pen and notebook along and describe these interesting people you observe in everyday life. As you sit at the Cafes and restaurants, you are building a library of characters for future books, since oftentimes we draw on real life people to fashion our characters. How wise you are to watch people and take an interest in them. It is all so easy to be wrapped up in oneself and the frustrations and concerns of the day and not to notice the life and drama that surrounds us.

Incidently, if anyone is interested in a resourse to help improve their writing, I would like to recommend a book called LITERARY VIRTUAL REALITY by Regina Emig Ronk. Ms. Ronk is an agent from Arizonia, and she really knows writing. This book is easy to read and provides many examples from modern literature. It also has several exercises that are fun to do. There is a URL you can use to order this book, but I will have to look it up. Ms. Ronk points out that reading is a semi-hypnotic state. By realizing that, a writer can use subtle tricks and devices to keep the reader in that state and make the story all the more real. If anyone is confused about what it means to stay in a character's point of view, how to show and not tell, and how to define one's voice, then this book is a must. Still more valuble is the instuction about how to use words to impart emotion and sense of place to the reader.


I hope your migraines get better. I know they can be miserable.


Hard to believe that we go back so far. I think you got on the Notebook about the same time I did. The only one besides yourself still here from the time when I first started posting is Goodweed. Those were good old days, but completely different like Goodweed said. Everyone who posts and becomes a part of this little community adds something entirely special and unique, and so with each new personality, the Notebook changes. It really never is the same from week to week. As Agsousa states in Shadows, Notebook is a living thing.

Well, it is late, and I suppose I should try to go to bed. But then again I indulged in caffine-laden Diet Coke tonight, so it might just be a lost cause.

Happy writing!


Cassandra Sat Mar 20 18:58:09 PST 1999

Greetings and salutations all,

Just got back from New York City about an hour ago.
(I was about to call it 'The City' but I've always been a little put off by that name. As if it's soo important that it's THE city, not just a city??)

Have I ever told you guys how much I enjoy bus trips? The bus itself, and the quality of the restrooms within it, aren't spectacular, I know. I prefer the anxious conversation, and exchange of plans on the way too whatever destination is in store, and then the contented philiosophical dicussion on the way back. One of the best, and quickest ways to learn about the personality of your friends has to be to just sit next to them, and listen.

Being dead broke and walking around 5th avenue proved to be a bit of a bummer though. All those designer stores, and jewelry places, and no means to buy anything... That has to be cruel and unusual punishment!

Well, I guess I missed the topic of where characters come from. Sometimes I'll have a character that shares literally no traits with my own personality, often they're inspired by friends. Seldomly, the inspiration comes from watching complete strangers. Not in the voyeristic perverted way, mind you! I just enjoy sitting at Cafe's or restaurants and watching people walk by, and greet each other. It's amazing that you can learn so much from just observing the way a person carries themselves, the gestures they use, and their facial expressions...

I guess that's why sometimes I know things about people before they tell me.

I have to clean out my dorm room tonight, see if I can find my checkbook in all of this mess...

Sleep tight, and pleasant dreams to you all


"Imagination is funny. It makes a cloudy day sunny. Makes a bee think of honey, just as I, think of you. Imagination is hazy. Your whole perspective gets hazy. Starts you asking a daisy, what to do." - Burke-Van Heusen (sung beautifully by Ella Fitzgerald).

Allein Sat Mar 20 17:35:35 PST 1999

"Hello, hello" Allein's voice echoed back to him as he stood on the high cliff above the canyon. The wind blew, making his dress flutter around him. No one was around. He began to walk away and suddenly heard "Hello, hello."
It wasn't his voice. He looked over and saw Rean on the opposite side of the canyon. "Rean! You're here!"
"I love you!" Rean yelled back, his voice echoing off of the canyon walls.
Seems abandoned here. I'll come back later. :)
Bai bai,

toby buckell Sat Mar 20 11:56:13 PST 1999

Hello all;

Particularly Goodweed. I was thinking to myself that same thing the other day, all the people I used to know seemed to have disappeared, and I'm trying to keep up with all the 'new' faces. I've been posting here since my freshman year, which makes it what...somewhat over two years, maybe towards three, I don't know (when was the site started Jack?). I know Rhoda Fort from the first bunch of posts, and Michelle from later, and of course Goodweed, from last year (I don't think I could forget a name like Goodweed!)

I would love to spend more time chatting here, and I do try to drop in and read as I have time, but as a mentioned earlier, time is so little anymore. Mostly I've made the decision to consciously spend more time writing fiction to get published and not spend as much time online and what-not.

Best of luck all.
Frabjous day...

Jack Beslanwitch Sat Mar 20 11:44:43 PST 1999

Hootie: My solution was to get my wife her own computer, some network cards and network the two together. She is on her computer now playing freehand.

Michele Sat Mar 20 11:38:01 PST 1999


I have had a day spent charging about the Gloucestershire countryside trying to find books for my college projects... sighs and as I am already weary this does not help - nor does it help to have a return of the migraine I had on Thursday. At this minute I am inclined to go to bed - although it's only just after 7.30 pm...


Congrats on the new computer - it's nice to have a new one, isn't it ? grins

Take care all
Michele Sat Mar 20 09:26:08 PST 1999

I've got two ladies waiting for me to take them for a walk on the beach and I can't let them wait much, can I? I saw that there are more additions to Shadows in a Dream (not Dancing with Shadows, Goodwin — a beautiful title this one as well) and I was glad to see that the idea is catching. All welcome aboard! I'll be with you on monday. Don't forget the Oscars night.

Kisses all around!

Goodweed of the North Sat Mar 20 07:28:15 PST 1999

I have been on this notebook for about three years now and have watched it evolve through various incarnations. I feel old with respect to many here (though I am not old). My circle of freinds has changed.

Gone are old names (muched missed) which have been replaced by many new ones. The notebook's flavor is less formal than before, less focused. Yet in its new freedom can be found the exuberance of youth, stirred into a writer's stew with sage, exerianced advice, and the semi-proffesional advice by others like myself who are still learning.

A more ecclectic mix isn't found anywhere than on Writer's Notebook. From this group will emerge great and succesful talent (maybe even me).

I have added to "Dancing With Shadows". I hope what I posted works. Again I request participation in the other round-robins. They are good beginnings. They could be wonderful stories.

Seeeeeya; Goodweed of the North

Hootie Sat Mar 20 05:53:50 PST 1999

I was sick for a couple of days, too, and just finished catching up on the postings. So I have a few comments to make...

First is not really a comment, just a HOORAY! As you might notice, I have a new e-mail address. It matches my new computer nicely. It’s great to be on-line at home, but I can already tell that my wife and I are going to fight for who should use it when (I’m writing this from work).

Writing and education—I am going to have to straddle the fence on this one. I think that being a writer is not defined by what we learn but by what we do, but at the same time, some form of education is important for any talent, even if that education comes through simple practice.

As far as writing myself... I think that a lot of the characters that I make are a reflection of myself, some of them in perfect symmetry, but some seen through a glass darkly. Very darkly. And of course, other people from my life make cameo appearances. Sometimes it’s in looks, sometimes in personality. When I write myself, though, it’s mostly personality. I have more to say on this, but I think I’ll save it for another post (it gives me a reason to come back ).

Allein—I have to agree with what’s been said about high school, and I’d like to add that if you can learn to deal with ignorant, unthinking, unfeeling people now, you’ll have an easier time later. There are a lot of people like that in the “real world”, too. A lot of them become managers it seems.

So live that you can look any man in the eye and tell him to go to hell.

Fri Mar 19 20:33:09 PST 1999

W. Olivia Fri Mar 19 17:43:21 PST 1999

Hi all. I added to Shadows in a Dream but I goofed and forgot to put my name on it. Mea Culpa.....

Cassandra Fri Mar 19 12:45:52 PST 1999

whoops, I meant it's in 'no' shape...

I can't type either

Cassandra Fri Mar 19 12:43:53 PST 1999

Thanks Michele :)

I'm sorry I never make it to the chats, but my schedule is getting more stressfilled by the minute, and I'm being very cautious about what I try to get my computer to do. It's a fragile creature right now, in now shape to be running around trying new things.

In fact, it deleted my English paper last night. Seems as if the A:/ (the floppy disk drive) is the culprit. The drive is just screwed up to the point where it's effecting the functionality of the other systems in the computer. Looks like it needs a transplant. Anyone know any good donors?? j/k

:) Chloe is still here, even though my roommate dropped out of all of her classes a week ago. She still has stuff left here. I wish she would clear it out so that I can invade her side of the room, move my computer... set up drawing and reading space, spread my material for the 3D assignment out on her bed... Oh well, guess I'll just be patient and wait for her to take it all away.

New York City trip tomorrow! It's going to be so much fun, wandering the museums and going shopping with my fellow art major friends.

Well, I have to do some sketches for class on Monday... and take some photos around campus. So, have a wonderful day everyone.

Ta Ta


"I hope that after I die, people will say of me: "That guy sure owed me a lot of money." " - Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey

Lena Fri Mar 19 08:56:00 PST 1999

Well, I just posted a bit for Shadows. Not much, but I hope it works out okay.

Thomas - How much is being tall worth to you? And who is... what's his name... Stephenopololis?

I must be running along for the weekend. I am working as a Program Aide this weekend for our local girl scout camp, so I will see you later.

"Don't Panic!"

Michele Fri Mar 19 08:35:20 PST 1999


That should have read :

"Just because no one commented didn't mean you were NOT missed..."

Honest ! I am too tired to type straight that's my problem...


Michele Fri Mar 19 08:33:18 PST 1999



Just because no one commented, didn't mean you were missed...


Sorry I missed the chat last night - I had to get some sleep - I had a migraine most of the day - try watching Apocalypse Now with a migraine - unfunny, believe me ! Anyway I still have the tail end of the migraine - unsurprising since it arose out of my body's desperate need for sleep - and I didn't get enough sleep last night... yawns - see it's only 4.30pm and I'm yawning already...

Oh well - better get back to the war memorials project write up - I've decided to add it to my web site once it's complete - I'll let you know when I find the time to add it, and if anyone is interested they can take a look...


To sleep : Perchance to dream
--Shakespeare, Hamlet Act III Scene I.

Rhoda Fri Mar 19 08:23:40 PST 1999

Just a note to say that I will be in the Java Chat at 1:00pm central standard time if anyone wishes to chat.

Why has RamyAtallah used my e-mail address and my web-page URL in his post?

Talk to you all later,


Rachel Fri Mar 19 07:06:30 PST 1999

Hiyah SKS

I will be sure to have a but kicking good time at camp!

Allein - Have a great weekend and be good to yourself.

Rhoda - It was nice chatting to yah

Jack - Nice chatting to you also. Gave me some more food for thought. My, my I am just having quite the thought feast. (big smile)

Take care all and have a wonderful weekend


Rachel Fri Mar 19 07:01:25 PST 1999

Hey Thomas

All assumptions swallowed.

Take care


Thomas Fri Mar 19 06:35:16 PST 1999


Good idea. Now, where did I throw that stuff?
As for getting myself in or out of my stories: this guy is such an egosit he can't remove himself from anything he writes. I once was a killer and a policeman at the same time -- try that!


I am as tall (or short) as Stephanopoulis (sp?). I understand he is a writer now -- blah!

A rack, heh. A little extreme, no? You wouldn't happen to know how much one would cost!


You should not assume I am defending any position -- just stating what I see as the facts.

I have been a writer since twelve -- but no one ever called me that (except me) until my name made it into print. That is the way we are judged.

Having said that, I also think a writer needs to do some training to be truly worthy of the title. After all, it is a craft as well as an art, and while art is innate, I believe crafts are taught. I have taken what minimal training I could get away with -- I suppose out of laziness. Reading and digging into what one reads is also good training for writers -- we can all do that until we drop.

I was one who got into a scrape a while back when I responded, stridently, to being told that a writer can write whenever the mood strikes. As one who earns a living coming up with fresh columns twice a week, I haven't that luxury, and I find it both a naïve and offensive comment.

And now I must write one of those columns.

Bye all

ramy Atallah Fri Mar 19 06:32:01 PST 1999

thank you for all the things that you have given to me and i would like to have more .
i need more effective texts and emotional writing as well ;anyway thank you!!!

S.K.S. Perry Fri Mar 19 05:31:10 PST 1999

Hey all,

I've also added a new bit to "Shadows," so check it out and let me know what you think please.

Rachel, kick some but for me at Camp!!!

Be Well, Live Well.

Goodweed of the North bflowers Fri Mar 19 03:27:59 PST 1999

Got a bit written for "Shadows" and will put it in after updating myself where the story is currently. Now I've got to get ready for work. Enjoyed reading the postings but don't have time to comment just yet.

Seeeeya; Goodweed of the North

Cassandra Thu Mar 18 18:57:58 PST 1999

Well, I've missed 2 days of posts in the notebook, due to pressing school matters. Seems as if no one ever even noticed that I was gone. :( poo

I'm probably not going to get to stop by here for a while... scheduling, and room preparations for next semester are going on the begining of next week. So that's going to take a bit of time. Aside from having 2 major art projects. I'm a Graphic Design major in case anyone is wondering.

I'm going on a little trip to NYC on Saturday to wander the art museums. We have to contrast and compare 5 pairs of paintings for a Color Theory assignment. My teacher the type that constantly checks up on one to make sure that they know and can use all of the obscure vocabularly. It is actually a lot of fun to try to explain what out projects have to be to other, non-art majors though. Some of them may have picked up a spot of the terminology here and there, but overall they have no clue what you're talking about. Like my lil cat, Poon, they just sit there and stare at you like deer caught in the headlights of a Mack truck.

My ambition has slowly started returning to me. Seems as if it ran out on me a few days before the Fall semester ended. Took my organization with it, and my cleanliness. Guess it couldn't find anyone else here on campus that would treat it as nicely as I do.

Now comes the daunting task of putting my dorm room in order.

it's going to be a long long weekend...

Best wishes all :)


Rachel Thu Mar 18 18:36:43 PST 1999

Hi all

Allein and Litter - We got the boots put to us in a big way (lol) Ah well it was nice while it lasted.

I will check into the chat round about 8:00 and see who all is hanging out in there.

All - I got a little retro with the music this afternoon. I was wondering if anyone other than myself has ever heard of Prefab Sprout? I loved them.

Take care all


Jack Beslanwitch Thu Mar 18 17:15:52 PST 1999

p.s.: On those that are using Internet Explorer and having problems with the Chat Room on an on going basis, I would check and make sure that JAVA is enabled on your browser. With some versions, JAVA was an optional download. The Chat Room is a JAVA chat room and relies on your browser being JAVA enabled. Email me if you have any technical question in this regard. Oh, well, I knew the reliability of the chat room would run into reality eventually :-).

Jack Beslanwitch Thu Mar 18 17:09:16 PST 1999

re the chatroom. I think this is a server problem of some kind. Not sure what and not sure why, but I have checked a couple of times and got in without a problem. The only other thing I can think of is that there were more than 10 people trying to get in. The chatroom has a limitation of 10 people. However, I assume that is not the case.

I will try logging on to the chat room at 8:00 as well.

Litter Thu Mar 18 16:33:53 PST 1999

Allein, Rachel,

I thought it was my PC but I guess the Chatroom isn't working properly. Crashed my PC trying to get back in. I did however get in after rebooting but guess what - no-one there!!!!

Maybe next time.


Allein Thu Mar 18 16:20:01 PST 1999

Rachel - guess we got kicked off the chat. When I tried to go back, I got a signal saying it was busy. I don't understand how they can kick off people who were on already. So, if okay with you, want to try back later? Eight or so - I'm free all night.

Bai bai,

Litter Thu Mar 18 16:03:57 PST 1999

Hi All,

Hope I haven't missed anything real good. I've been sick but I'll spare you the details...

SNArly - Baby Dragon arrived at last but wouldn't you know it, I got sick so I still haven't had time to use it. I'll let you know though.


Are you using IE4? If so you can go to the 'View' menu in the Explorer window and select 'Internet Options'.
When you get the options map/diagram click on the 'Advaced' tag on the right hand side.
Scroll down to near the bottom and you will see a section marked Java with three boxes next to it. the middle box - JAVA JIT compiler enabled - should be ticked. I suspect yours is not.

Hope this works for you.


Rachel Thu Mar 18 14:46:12 PST 1999

S.N.Arly - Nanny, nanny boo boo. I'm going to camp without you (grin, wink)

I am also looking into going to one in Ontario this summer. Its in Guelph and sounds like a blast. I'm making a trip to see relatives and check out SKS in person and figured I might as well see if I can't squeez in the camp as well.

Allein, let me know what you think of the story.

SKS let me know if you go the new format on the chapter I sent you. If it is still messed up I will look for this elisive (rtf) that you mentioned.

Take care all


Allein Thu Mar 18 14:14:04 PST 1999

Well today at school was a little better. This girl who has been bothering me for the past two months wasn't at school. That boy was though and I "accidently" bumped into him.
But the best part is that I got my baby doll thing that cries and you have to take care of it. It's so cute, but let's wait and see what I think come Monday. All the way home I was checking out it's little feet and hands and it's cute little nose. It's a girl and I haven't decided what to name it yet.

Jack - I was unable to get into the chat room. Perhaps you should check it out.

Anyway, I'm gonna go.
Bai bai,

S.N.Arly Thu Mar 18 13:59:01 PST 1999

Rachel - I'm feeling a bit like a giant.

I want to go to karate camp too!!!! Whine.

Agsousa - Soon as I've either got internet access on Ubermoo (where my dragon lives) or my arms heal up a bit, I'll try my hand at the Shadows.

Lena - OK. So I got the height and you must've gotten something else to make it even, eh? Like coordination. I bet at your height you've got excellent balance. But please, please don't tell me 5'4" is average. I know I'm tall, but dogs I'm off the scale then.

Thomas - But you could say you arduously translated it to English. See, that's why it took so long for you to find it and publish it.

To all - I rarely find myself a character in my stories. Recently I showed up in two different ideas, although I didn't realize that until I was partway through one of them. Has anyone else found it difficult to kill themself off in a story? I hit that point and it was like I suddenly tossed my car in reverse, at 55 mph. grrrunch. got through it, but I actually have to die twice in this story and am finding this a facinating ordeal.


"If I lost my mind, would you help me find it?"
-Soul Asylum

Michele Thu Mar 18 12:53:52 PST 1999

HI gang

I left you the most witty and wise message last night but owing to problems Jack referred to, I could not post it... well maybe it wasn't wise and witty - but you'll never know now... grins

I have just got in from college - stayed to a guest lecture on writing biographies (kind of relevant, yes ?) - so I am tired, no longer hungry (having just eaten) and need sleep...


I have NO problemo whatsoever with the Chat room - I've used twice with SKS Perry and Rachel (separately, not together)... 'twas good.

Umm - I am too tired (and suffering the tail end of a migraine) to really think of anything to say here... so I'll wander off, to read the paper and then hit the hay - it's been a long day ... hey, look ! Poetry ! :-)

Silly me...


"I love the smell of napalm in the morning"

(Sorry we watched Apocalypse Now today - in case you don't know it's a reworking of Conrad's Heart of Darkness - so it was relevant - although very weird !)

Lena Thu Mar 18 07:46:59 PST 1999

Hullo and good morn to the world.

Allein - As a fellow prisoner of my local high school, I would like to remind you that you are not alone. High school happens, and then you discover this thing called “real life.” I’m still waiting to be introduced to that strange concept, but until then...

Thomas – If you do not mind me asking, just how tall (or short) are you? And a capitalist system can make you taller... work for a while, earn some money, and buy yourself a rack.

Jack – I use Microsoft Internet Explorer, and the JAVA chat does not work for me either. Any suggestions?

Hmm, I am short on comments today. Ah well, ‘til next time, amigos, and a good night to all and to all a good night, but don’t let any bedbugs bite. Especially if you plan to take a nap, it being the closer to high noon than night, and a show-down in the dusty street just around the corner, although a circle is round and has no end, so how does this fit into the circle of life? Life is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so, yet if all the world is a stage and the players forgot the lines, then we are merely living in a world that makes itself up as it goes, with no true purpose and no rhyme or reason in any season... Who can say?

I certainly can’t!

Lena Thu Mar 18 07:46:58 PST 1999

Hullo and good morn to the world.

Allein - As a fellow prisoner of my local high school, I would like to remind you that you are not alone. High school happens, and then you discover this thing called “real life.” I’m still waiting to be introduced to that strange concept, but until then...

Thomas – If you do not mind me asking, just how tall (or short) are you? And a capitalist system can make you taller... work for a while, earn some money, and buy yourself a rack.

Jack – I use Microsoft Internet Explorer, and the JAVA chat does not work for me either. Any suggestions?

Hmm, I am short on comments today. Ah well, ‘til next time, amigos, and a good night to all and to all a good night, but don’t let any bedbugs bite. Especially if you plan to take a nap, it being the closer to high noon than night, and a show-down in the dusty street just around the corner, although a circle is round and has no end, so how does this fit into the circle of life? Life is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so, yet if all the world is a stage and the players forgot the lines, then we are merely living in a world that makes itself up as it goes, with no true purpose and no rhyme or reason in any season... Who can say?

I certainly can’t!

Rachel Thu Mar 18 07:27:30 PST 1999

Hiyah Thomas

Well, it would seem you and I were busy posting at the same time.
Of course after reading your post I was prompted to reply.

I don't think that what makes a writer a writer can be based on something so cut and dried as either education or success. What makes us who we are is something that is alive inside of us. Something that makes our spritis cry out to be heard.

I have wanted to tell stories for as long as I can remember and if you need success to be a writer then I guess I have had small ones. When in school I wrote several school plays which were by the way very well received. Also co-worte a major christmas eve presentation for church. Ah, and when I was a wee little kiddie I was published in some book of poems for a little ditty I wrote about puddles.

I am laughing at this need I seem to feel to defend myself. I know that what you said was not ment as an attack. I guess my writers pride is just rearing up and demanding to be heard.

Hey All - Does anyone else here miss summer yet? I was just looking outside and discovered some blue sky! Yes! It is true!

Take care all


Thomas Thu Mar 18 06:54:33 PST 1999


I have spent my whole life reveling that I am different than the rest. That is how it should be; that is what makes each of us special. I admit, however, that it would be nice if just once someone could understand me -- nice, but not essential!


I beginning to read a rabid love for thei Notebook in your posts. I have a vision of you signing on while you tango with your Mac terminal.

If my poem got mixed in with your posts, which I have not seen happen, then we are each the better for it -- but please send me my share of the royalties, which is all an agent these days seems to be good for.


I would have gone the grandmother route a long time ago, but neither of my "nannas" spoke English, and it would be quite embarrassing for me if Opra were to bring that out during an interview with me as she promotes my latest blockbuster on her ridiculously influential book-plugging show.

After posting my response to Rachel, however, I began to think more on the subject. I suppose an argument could be made that doctors, lawyers, or other professionals are called such because they have been trained and then they go out and "succeed" in the capitalist world. I am not sure where the emphasis should be placed: on the training or on the success?

Not that I subscribe to it, but perhaps an argument can be made that a writer, or any artist, must at least have training in order to take on the yoke of the title. Not so much income, but some sort of foundation.

What do others think about it?

As for aspiration, I aspire to be tall, but at my age I suppose the chances for me reaching that "lofty" aspiration are nil. And no capitalist system shall make it happen.

Rachel Thu Mar 18 06:54:25 PST 1999

Hi all

I just went and checked out Shadows in the workbook.

Wow (good descriptive word eh - big grin)

Well anyway it got me thinking about this place and I really just want to thank you all for being there. I have come a long way since my original post where I told you all about that feeling of walking naked in the mall.

I can remember thinking for sure that you would all think I was crazy and just never respond to me at all.

That was not the case you opened your hearts and your minds and your poured out your wisdome to me.

Thanks to all of you I came out with my writing. It has been a wonderful and expanding experience for me.

Ah well just wanted to express my thanks

Rhoda - Can relate to the Gremlin thing. Hate that little monster.

Take care all

Rachel Thu Mar 18 05:58:16 PST 1999

I ckecked The novel. I was so happy that Steve (Perry) and Howard and Rhoda added their "thoughts and reflections" (plagiarizing our master) to it. So you have at last understood what's the book about! Please try to keep some liaison (linking, oh well, whatever) between posts — but don't worry even about that. Lena and me and other volunteers will to the job of editing when this first version is over — in six months, perhaps?

agsousa Thu Mar 18 05:43:22 PST 1999

Arly : you asked me a question I forgot to answer, sorry. If I am a deconstructionist. Not at all! I am just a fiction lover — period. I hate rules and fashions. I believe a writer has to find his own way and should not pay much attention to what critics — and even readers — say. He must, of course, be humble and listen to others. But his own opinion about his work ought to be his only guideline. For that he must read a lot — all kinds of literature. And know the techniques, if he feels that will help him/her. Literature is a way to find the secret of one's SELF. The others can't do much to help us here. I once attended a lecture on deconstructionism. I did not understand a word and did not go back to the course. So, I might be a deconstructionist without knowing...

Lena: look at the Novel as if it were the other side of a single coin called Notebook, where people will like to go and collaborate freely and with the same pleasure they do here. Forget about fiction and fiction will be born. After I dispatch my tango teacher to America he will be all yours. Kill him, or make love to him, or make love to him so that you can kill him, or save his life with a life-kiss-whatever-that-means, or hate him and send him to Vietnam as if it were still the war. Time and space and vision and reality are different in cyberspace — and the Novel is a study on cybernetic minds.

Rachel Wed Mar 17 22:16:35 PST 1999

Allein - Tomorrow at 4:00 sounds good to me.

I live in British Columbia, Canada. Just across the line from yah.

Friday will not work as I will be away for the weekend. I am going off for a Karate camp with three other women. This should be very interesting. (lol)

All - Yup thats right. I went into Karate for the sake of research and I fell head over heals in love with it. I guess I am just a little scraper at heart. Hey and I can write a much better fight sceen now.

Take care you


Allein Wed Mar 17 21:57:44 PST 1999

Jack - I know you are from Washington and since I know many of the jr. high and high schools around here, I was just wondering which one you went to.

This got me to thinking that many writers were outcasts as children. Alexander Dumas for example. And he wrote what are considered classics now - although I read The Three Muskateers and I didn't really like it. But I saw the new version of 'The Man in the Iron Mask' - that was such a good movie! And Leonardo DiCaprio...yummy!
NIE-way, maybe this means that I should just wait and then when I'm a famous writer people will regret treating me so bad - but I'll never forget the writer's notebook and the nice people who stuck by me through thick and thin. HUGS ALL AROUND!!
Although, many famous writers didn't become famous until after they were dead - so maybe I should kill myself. JUST KIDDING!!!

Rachel - I don't know where you live so I don't know what time you're on, but how does around 4:00 PST sound tomorrow or Friday.

Well, I am going to watch a new episode of DARIA, then I'm going to bed.
Good night (Konban wa, Buenos Noches, Gute Nacht),

"I have gone to look for myself, if I return before I get back, please keep me here." - T-shirt

Toby Buckell Wed Mar 17 21:25:55 PST 1999

S.N Arly

Time, can anyone show me where I can find some? (chuckles). Most of it is due to consolidating. I work 8-12 hours a week at the computer lab, where I get anything that needs done as far as computer stuff done. Everything else is done as time permits. Maybe if I didn't spend 4-6 hours a day writing fiction I would have more time :)

As per school;

High school sucks if you have anything remotely resembling a mind. I got a lot out of it only because I never paid attention in class, I would take books with me to read. I had some close friends, but I'm glad to be here at college.

Frabjous day all.

Jack Beslanwitch Wed Mar 17 20:36:23 PST 1999

     I have to apologize to all. I mentioned in the last several days that I would try hosting a chat at 4:00 PM on Wednesday and then got sidetracked with domestics aspects and forgot. Mainly, I have helped Fran drain our hot tub, watch her clean it and then help refill it. At any rate, I will try to set something up for a followup at some time in the future. I am sorry to hear that the JAVA chat room does not function for Agsousa. I was wondering if either Michele or anyone from Australia has similar problems. Take care everyone.

     Allein: Please let me just say that I found junior high and high school some of the worst times in my life. I definitely felt like the odd person out and it is in some respects one of the reasons I fell in love with science fiction fandom and convention fandom. College was a lot more enjoyable experience by far. So, please keep happy thoughts about yourself and use your angst about these so called friends in constructive way. Build characters out of them in your stories and kill, humiliate and otherwise dismember the characters with great glee. Did I say that? Oh, well. Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle once nuked Bellingham in one of their books, Footfall, and did so with relish. I do not precisely remember the details, but something must have happened that prompted them to have great fun doing the dirty deed in their story.

On a final note. If you have not gotten a chance to download and take a look at the second trailer for the new Star Wars movie think about it. It is a 25 meg download, but it is flat out awesome. This is going to be a truly exciting experience.

Rachel Wed Mar 17 18:57:37 PST 1999

Hey Allein

If you want to arrange a time to chat just let me know and I'll see if I can drop on in.

Agoussa - After reading your post I of course could not resist the urge to go in and see what you thought was so wicked.

I read it over once and then I read it over a second time and I felt that it was lovely. Beautiful words.

Take care all


Allein Wed Mar 17 18:57:01 PST 1999

I guess my little story wouldn't fit. I just went to the round robin and realized that mine is a story with dialogue and characters interacting. The stuff in the round robin is pretty much description. So, I'll just put it in short story.


Allein Wed Mar 17 18:53:24 PST 1999

Rhoda - I hope it gets better. Anyway, this guy and I are trying to be friends again. Hearing that there's someone else who was miserable in high school makes me feel a little better. The good thing about college though is that if you skip a class, they won't call your house up with a recording that says: "Your child has missed period..."

Agsousa - I haven't checked my e-mail yet, that's my next stop. Anyway, I thought the story was sweet too.

Well, I wrote something that could go into round robin, but I think I'll put it into the short story section first and see the reaction. If it would fit into the round robin, then there it shall go.

Bai bai,

agsousa Wed Mar 17 18:44:49 PST 1999

Lena: the readers do not know us and they will find the fiction side which may very well elude us. I also think that the third person will probably work better. Please be free to use any person you like in your additions. Michel Butor wrote a good book in the second! Simple-minded people tend to equate first person with autobiography. Nothing farthest fram truth! The first person here will also work perhaps. I believe a writer only Knows what is best for his book after he finished at least a first version. Let us write freely and without complexes or preoccupations with the final product. My novels are usually written only after five versions, and this is not unusual. Let us write anything that comes to our minds, even if it is not good. We can always delete in the end.

Now I'm tired at last and go to bed. Good night everybody!

Lena Wed Mar 17 18:24:48 PST 1999

Oh, and SNarly, I am not very tall. I am 5'4ish, and have been that tall since fifth grade. I was tall for a fifth grader, but not anymore. Everybody, the guys especially, have taken it upon themselves to catch up with me and make me feel short (though I know 5'4 is actually average for women).

However, nobody said twins had to be the same height!

Lena Wed Mar 17 18:20:44 PST 1999

Agsousa - I must say that your remarks about the scandalous nature of your story had me envisioning... well, many things that your story was not. I liked it. It was sweet, with wonderful description. I cannot say, therefore, why in some basic way I am bothered by it... perhaps it is the worry that, by using ourselves for the story, we might in some way forget it is fiction. Who can say? However, despite that, I am waiting and wondering what may develop in the life of our tango teacher and his beautiful alien.

Are we free to switch viewpoints for Shadows in a Dream? I noticed you were using first person, and it has always seemed to me as if changing from first person to another viewpoint does not work well. Any guidelines?

Rachel (not Rhoda!) - My apologies.

Good night to all,

For Allein, with her blue eyes:
"If you could only see the way she loves me,
Then maybe you would understand
Why I feel this way about our love,
And what I must do.
If you could only see how blue her eyes can be when she says,
When she says she loves me."
- "If You Could Only See" by Tonic

agsousa Wed Mar 17 16:59:02 PST 1999

Oh, sweet "posty thing", as Avatar called it some hours ago. Working again!

I did not repeat any of my messages and all of them showed up nicely when I put them here. But then something happened and the miracle of multiplication of little rolls happened again. Not my fault, I swear.

Thomas, I did not plagiarize your beautiful poem (or part of it) — it just came down a bit and enriched my prose in the wake of the accident that happened here some time ago.

Allein — that's the spirit. Did you get my e-mail? I sent you one tonight asking you to be cooperative. In English, well in my own brand of English. I am thinking of brushing my German so that we can exchange points of view in a really cultivated language. I would like very much you collaborated in

THE novel.

I promise to stop this shameless advertising campaign — or at least use less shocking methods - as soon as I have each of you enriching a prose which now belongs to this glorious bunch.

And, Arly, I have noticed that you are one of the best writers here, so, what are you waiting for? Your irony will be most welcome.

Now I'm going to write something really useful to anyone wishing to be published. By the way, I also need some advice on that field — but don't talk to me about agents. I have one in Paris since 1985. She never did anything for me!

Rhoda Wed Mar 17 16:06:37 PST 1999


I hear your frustrations and it reminds me all too well of when I was in high school. I never even had a boyfriend because everyone thought I would be too dull on a date. I never went to the prom. In fact, I never dated a guy until I got out of high school. I had very few girl friends and often sat alone in the library and the lunch room. I could not wait to graduate. The rest of your life gets better, Allein. Truely it does. The trials and tribulations of high school and the legions of shallow, silly kids who inhabit them only serve to build character. You, Allein, are not silly or shallow as you have often proved with your thought-provoking posts on this Notebook. College gets better. There you will find more individuals like yourself (though I will caution you that silly and shallow people inhabit the hallowed halls of academia too). Being 39, I can now honestly say that I am glad that I didn't blindly follow the crowd when I was young. And even in my day, we had peer pressure. I think I have a much better life than many of the kids in high school who gave me a difficult time. My only regret now is that I threw away some good years being intimidated by my more popular classmates and also bearing a bad self-image that was totally unjustified. So hang in there, Allein, and feel free to share your frustrations here on the Notebook where you are appreciated and where your imput is valued. Incidently, your "friends" do not deserve a nasty e-mail from you. These people are simply not worth your time and effort. Shrug your shoulders, ignore them, and pray that someday they will grow up. Easier said than done, I know.

I like to read the biographies of famous people who spent much of their lives unaccepted by their peers. Everyone thought Louis Pasteur a nut because he questioned the popular wisdom of his day. People laughed at Columbus--I think we've discussed that before. The Bronte sisters might not have been laughed at, but they spent much of their childhood only in each other's company. Socrates was put to death by his society. Great people seem to make great enemies or a great number of enemies. It is not easy to go about in this world and be yourself.


Thank you so much for reading my novel and for the nice things you have said about it. Incidently, I do need more chapters of Naejin.


What a romantic you are! I did not find your story the least bit scandelous. Perhaps having known you here on the Notebook as long as I have, I am so used to you that you cease to shock me. Actually I thought the passage was extremely sweet.

Happy writing!


Allein Wed Mar 17 15:49:33 PST 1999

agsousa - so far, I like the story in the workbook. Thanks for all the comments. I'll have to write some of the story.

Actually, this day was not much better. It was a little. But this one friend of mine (at least, I assumed they were my friend) won't sit next to me in Japanese anymore because they think I'm annoying - well, I'm gonna send them an unpleasent e-mail. Honestly, I feel like hitting someone - but I'm not a violent person, so I won't.

Racheal - I got on only ten minutes after you and went to see if you were in chat, but you weren't. Oh well, I'll catch you in there sometime.

Well, bai bai all,

Rachel Wed Mar 17 15:25:14 PST 1999

Hey there Lena - Its was me Rachel who left that post not Rhoda. You are not the first person to mix us up. I guess its the R thing.

S.N. Arly I am 5"8 are you towering over me?

Take care all


S.N.Arly Wed Mar 17 15:00:01 PST 1999

Allein - We all have days like that now and again. Rest assured it will pass.

Rachel - Ah yes. One of my pet peeves. Not being published, or not being published where it counts does not make one a novice, beginner, or aspiring writer. Unfortunately it's just one of those things that our cluture believes and those of us who ARE writers just have to ignore.

Lena - I think the problem is in the inference that aspiring is equivalent to amateur, which seems to be the connotation in current day society. While I do aspire to great things, and I aspire to improve my writing, I am not a novice. And unfortunately Thomas is correct in that in America most people will consider writing a hobby or lesser job until or unless you are published, whether that's your goal or not.

And just how tall did you say you are, my twin? At the moment I feel I'm towering over everyone in the room.

Agsousa - Unfortunately most publishers will throw you out on your ass if you go knocking on their doors without express invitation. So the trick is in getting an invitation without waiting for an epoch.

Just reflecting on what you said about character and plot, are you, perhaps a deconstructionist?

Michele - Another fine tagline there.

Toby - Where do you find the time? Although now that I think back, I seemed to have more time in college too. Maybe I should go back.

Thomas - So the lesson here is to fake our deaths to become Great Writers? Or perhaps I should pass my stuff off as my dear grandmama's writing, eh?

An it harm none, do what thou wilt
-Celtic credo

Jack Beslanwitch Wed Mar 17 14:57:25 PST 1999

Lets try this again. Agsousa pointed out a problem and I attempted to fix it and then Michele pointed out that Agsousa's post had been repeated seventeen times. I corrected that by attempting to delete all but on of the message. I think I failed I deleted all. At any rate, hopefully everything is working now and if I inadvertantly deleted anybody's post I apologize. A somewhat confusing time on the Workbook. I think I will make a point of looking at moving things over to the new server. Take care eeryone.

Lena Wed Mar 17 10:26:07 PST 1999

Oh dear. That is all I can think to say at the moment. After reading the last post, I immediately attempted to access the Workbook to read this scandalous masterpiece of Agsousa’s, but I am at school and do not remember my password at the moment. Judgement will have to wait, but I would like to say that I am not offended by the theme.

I am waiting to hear Allein’s reaction, however!

Thomas & Howard – I liked both of your posts... the fig tree, and the truth about dogs and cats (isn’t that a movie?) Made me smile.

Rhoda – I beg to differ. Are not every one of us aspiring authors, even those who have been published? Aspiring means hopeful and ambitious, someone who is trying to accomplish what they set out to do... and I believe that definition applies to every one of us here, published or not.

Mmm, and it dawned on me that, while on the subject of descriptions, nobody knows what I look like. I have curly, free-spirited brown hair. I used to have long hair, but I chopped it off last summer and found I liked the convenience of short hair, so I kept it chin length. The crazy thing is, it used to be long and straight, but I cut it short and it began to curl and wave and jump and run wild. I have light brown eyes, slightly hazel, and I wear glasses. I generally wear clothes in the shades of green/brown/gray, the colors of the woods, and, um, when I laugh I end up gasping for breath. Like a fish out of water, I believe it was described as.

And that is all you are getting out of me on me.

Michelle – I have noticed that you seem to supply many of the actor’s names the rest of us are too lazy to remember. Joseph Fiennes... I will remember that name! He has wonderful eyes.

Will return later after I check out the workbook,

agsousa Wed Mar 17 09:02:04 PST 1999

My dear fellow writers and co-human beings,

I am trembling with emotion. I dared write and publish, in the space dedicated to the novels in progress, a little text in which I fictionized (?) a little bit of yesterday's notebookposts. I am afraid the awful novel in question (I will not say its title) will be immediately cancelled by the powers that be, because it is really scandalous and is going to hurt the feelings of this most respectful audience. My character is in love with Allein and threatens to commit adultery — he is a married tango teacher. You should never trust a Latin, Jack. Well, I confessed, I confessed!

Thomas: I will talk to you later, if I survive. It's Porto (Oporto is the bloody mispelling of the city where I was born.)

Farewell, farewell!

S.K.S. Perry Wed Mar 17 06:16:52 PST 1999

Hey all,

Rhoda, I just want to say my wife and I both loved your book, and I'll probably pass it on to my mom, cause she's really into that stuff too. (It wasn't exactly a happily ever after kind of tale, was it :-) After reading it, it makes me wonder exactly what criteria publishers use to select which books they will publish. (My guess is the eenie, meanie, miny, moe method. And I believe it was Thomas who once said the emphasis was on the meanie!!)

Allein, I hope you're feeling better about yourself today. Believe me, there are many here who would miss you if you were to suddenly dissapear from our lives. A lot of the people here have become almost like an extended family for me, and you're like a little sister who I know one day is going to be some really special (even more special than you are now!) Cheer up, you have people who care about you.

Be Well, Live Well.

A rose by any other name still goes for about three bucks a pop. - S.K.S. Perry

Thomas Wed Mar 17 05:50:19 PST 1999


The reason the term aspiring writer is used is because under capitalism how you earn your living is who you are: an artist is not an artist until someone pays for the art; a musician is not a musician until someone pays for the music.
Of course, the rules change after you die -- then, when your work is discovered in a closet, you are a GREAT artist, musician, writer!


My Jane Austen does not care to partake in Internet communities, at least not while I am around the house. And we often leave each other to our own friends.

Vinho do Oporto, no? Isn't the O part of the city's name? Or is that an affectation? Or does the o in do eliminate it as in Italian and French?
One day I want to visit Oporto, where the Phoenicians set up shop so long ago. I want to go to Madeira, too, before the bananas and vineyards are all gone.

I have seen many parts of the ancient wine world, but not the Iberian peninsula. Perhaps, after I retire to a villa in Italy, I will have time to travel again; I certainly seem to have time to dream.

I am feverishly updating and correcting and changing (again) my book -- a publisher sent me a letter asking to see my revisions; and I am writing a small booklet for a little business I plan to start -- to teach people how to get satisfaction when a company does not live up to its side of the buyer/seller bargain; and, I am writing a story that you, Agsousa, kick-started, and you shall see it first -- soon.

Oxford English dictionary, American version: plagiarize.

To the Notebook,

It isn't even close to spring here, yet my energy level is up, and I impatiently await the day I can drive stakes into the ground to fence off from the deer my new and large garden, where I grow garlic, shallot, melons, cilantro and all manner of greens, and plums, peaches, pears, apples, grapes, cherries and, best and toughest of all to grow, figs.

They start as the tiniest of seeds and seedlings and soon they are large and looming, full and fruitful, tasty and useful, and an incomparable representation of life. Growing things is the most potent representation of faith I know.

I once grew an anger,
until it threatened to make me shrink.

I once grew frustration,
until it threatened to stifle my smile.

I once grew despair,
until it caused me to fade.

I once grew a fig tree,
and it showed me endurance and sweetness,
and it gave me sustenance.

I once grew,
but now I am grown.

agsousa Wed Mar 17 04:17:59 PST 1999

Hello, everybody!

SHADOWS IN A DREAM is at last in the Round Robin section of the Workbook! I have seen it with my very large black eyes! I danced to the tune of the sexiest tango in my collection — pure joy! Now we are all becoming rich and famous. Please pick up your last and most obvious chance of writing the best novel in years. Do not mind spelling mistakes. Rhoda, for the American edition, and Michele, please, for the English one, will correct them for us. And, Allein, you can write in German too! The aim of the novel is to show our very minds and souls in their contradictions and in our capacity for dream. You can use your cybernetic names as characters' names too. The name of the game is freedom — think of the novel as a second notebook WITH A THEME. Be free even to modify it (I am here to put things right anyway...) Please write, write, write. And don't forget THEM BONES and DARKNESS DESCENDS are also available for our inexhaustible genius.

Jack: Thanks a lot. The Java Chat does not work for me and I have not subscribed to the ICQ yet because I am waiting for Eddie to come back: he is the one who accepts subscriptions, right? I will try to motivate the lazybones in this forum to part as the tiniest of seeds and seedlings and soon they are large and looming, full and fruitful, tasty and useful, and an incomparable representation of life. Growing things is the most potent representation of faith I know.

I once grew an anger,
until it threatened to make me shrink.

I once grew frustration,
until it threatened to stifle my smile.

I once grew despair,
until it caused me to fade.

I once grew a fig tree,
and it showed me endurance and sweetness,
and it gave me sustenance.

I once grew,
but now I am grown.

Jack Beslanwitch Tue Mar 16 23:56:11 PST 1999

OK. Here it is.

Agsousa and all other Workbookers: This is to let everyone know that there is now a new Round Robin on the Workbook. Check it out and consider adding to the project. Also, I welcome Agsousa to set aside a block of time at his choosing for using the Chat Room for discussion about his new collaborative fiction project. Of course, that is given that it works for you. I seem to remember you were having some problems with it.

I have archived back to the first message today and even at that it left 40 k. Quite surprising actually.

Tobie: Good to see you back and a great delight to see you submitting that many stories. Good luck.

Michele Tue Mar 16 23:18:23 PST 1999

HI all !

Especially Hi to Toby - I was asking after you last week...

On aspiring writers - I don't why people use that term - personally I describe myself (when merely referring to my writing) as an "as-yet-unpublished writer" - far more explanatory I find...


According to MY English dictionary you can spell plagiarise with a "z" instead if you wish - it used to be that one way was English and one way was American but no one seems to distinguish any more...

"Wake up it's a beautiful morning..." - sorry won't sing any more - wouldn't want to frighten the horses...

Anyhoo I must away to college.... talk to you all later...

Happy St Patrick's Day (if I had time I'd figure out how to do that in Green - but I don't !)


We do not inherit the land, we borrow it from our children.
-- Native American Proverb

Toby Buckell Tue Mar 16 23:05:50 PST 1999

Greetings all:

It has been a while since I've last posted. Fear not, I have been popping in from time to time to speed-read on and find out what's up but haven't had the time to post. Lately I've been extremely busy.

My independent study in short SF writing was approved, and the quarter is starting. I've just ordered some 5 odd short story collections from Amazon and I'm getting more at a used book store just up the road. I also have a class in Apocalyptic Fiction and another in Expository Writing. All should keep me busy writing enough to kill a major forest (or fill a disk). I just now suddenly realized how much work all this represents, as I am helping edit our college's yearly chapbook 'Shalith', and helping with the weekly newspaper, both with a technology coloumn and keeping them on the web! Shake a stick at that will ya!

Of course I'm still subbing stories like mad. I've got ten to send out tomorrow.

Frabjous day all...

Rachel Tue Mar 16 20:02:01 PST 1999

Allein - Hiyah

I'm done with the story up to chapter 11 and am looking very forward to anything else that you may have come up with.

Take care you and I am pleased to hear that things seem to be looking better for you


Allein Tue Mar 16 19:41:36 PST 1999

Thanks all you. I feel a little better now. But you know what would be the best - if we could find a time to chat together. I can't tomorrow, unfortunately, but I am free this weekend.

Rachel - oh, you've reached a good chapter. Here's a little outline: Allein gets molested, again (I get questions about this the most popular being - why doesn't he tell his parents? You're like the first person not to ask me that), he discusses it with Rean - they also discuss family and a few other things, you get to learn a bit more about their planet's history, Rean has a discussion with his mother about things, Kachik attacks him for putting down her sense of fashion, and you find out just how depressed the king really is. Please tell me what you think and if you have any suggestions to improve it, don't hesitate to e-mail me.

Well, bai bai,
Happy St. Patrick's day all,

"Frosted lucky charms..they're magically delicious." Just to get you in the Leprechan mood. :| - sorry, can't smile just yet.

Jack Beslanwitch Tue Mar 16 18:53:41 PST 1999

Back after being out all day. And a sunny one. In Seattle??????? Enjoying it for the novelty of it if nothing else. I am going to take some time away for a while, but will get the round robin up sometime today or tonight my time. So, Agsousa, I am not ignoring you. Just being still swamped a bit.

Take care and let your muse bite you where it hurts :-)

agsousa Tue Mar 16 18:46:05 PST 1999

On publishing (dedicated to Perry, Rhoda and Lena):

When in the course of human events, one finds out he or she or both have written a good book, that person must immediately take a plane and go to where publishers are. In the States that must be New York and the rest is probably landscape as ist is probably landscape as in any other country of the world. Living far away from the centres of literary decision is synonymous to be a perpetual aspiring writer (stupid designation, I agree). In New York you should try to contact a publisher in person, not an agent — agents should come AFTER you got published and have no more patience to deal with publishers in person. How to contact a publisher? Well, I don't know. In my case, I just knocked at one's door. And this reminds me a wonderful Tv series (?) I saw last year, "Seinfeld". Those people seemed to have the right spirit to go and knock at a publisher's door. They are my kind. Actually, I am the little one in the series. Not Seinfeld himself, no, though he also had a Mac.

Bai bai

Rachel Tue Mar 16 18:05:30 PST 1999

Allein - Hi you - I am now on chapter 9. I have found a little time of late to read and to tell the truth have fallen in love with a couple of different books. However after reading your very sad post I promptly picked your story back up and am now into chapter 9. I will be done in just afew minutes. Once I get into something I read quite quickly. I tend to grind to a halt as the end of a story I am reading approaches. I hate when good story ends.

All - How about this one. Why does every one call we who are not published aspiering writers?

Have to say that is one that gets me aggrivated. I do not aspire to write. I do wirte. I may aspire to wirte well, or to be published, but even if I am writing complete and utter crap I am still a writer.

Ah well enough from me

Take care all


agsousa Tue Mar 16 17:42:25 PST 1999

Darkness has descended upon this page today. Where are them bones? And Allein has been crying all day just because she was not invited to a party where she would get deadly bored. And, for some obscure reason, I also feel like crying. And, Howard, that's a great biblical page on cats and dogs! Well, people, if you don't say something I'll tell you the synopsis of another novel of mine! Yes, this is a threat! And this is an exclamation mark! And, Michele, it's "plagiarize", and not what you have written. And, Lena, Joseph Fiennes is not half as handsome as me, while Gwyneth Paltrow is almost as smart as you. But Allein is the nec plus ultra. Allein is not a human being. She is my guardian angel. I know when she is sad and when she is happy. But I never tell that to anyone. I am not telling now, am I?

Allein Tue Mar 16 17:26:03 PST 1999

Agsousa - Ich versuche nicht zu schreien, aber es ist schwierig, wenn ich so traurig bin.

Rachel - thanks. Don't mean to leave you hanging. I'm going to try and write chapter 12 this weekend if possible. How far have you gotten? You said you still had more to read. And if your friend's daughter is reading it, how is she liking it?

Bai bai,

Rachel Tue Mar 16 16:10:47 PST 1999

Allein - Sounds like a pretty awful day. On the point that nobody would care or notice you are wrong. I love to read your posts. You are often a breath of fresh air. Furthermore if you were to vanish I would never be able to get the rest of you story. You only sent me through to chapter 11! You couldn't leave me in mid story! What horror! NOOOOOOOOO.

So there are just a few reasons why I care and why I would notice. I am certain that others on this site care and would notice your absence as well.

Take care and I hope tomorrow brings brighter things for you.


agsousa Tue Mar 16 15:56:42 PST 1999

Allein: Wie ist es moglich dass eine (junge) Frau weint wahrend aller Tag? Ich glaube nicht! Nur Menchen weinen diese Tage! Bitte schreien Sie nicht! Ihr Freund — Americo.

Allein Tue Mar 16 15:38:08 PST 1999

Lena - you're actually pretty close. The only differences are that I have blue eyes and, actually, I sit infront of the classroom, because in my school, it seems that the people in back get yelled at the most. And I still get to talk to my friends.

Rhoda - don't worry so much about your looks, it's what's on the inside that really counts and you are obviously a nice person. :)

The sun is shining here today, but on the wrong day for me. I'm actually in a really terrible mood. I've been crying, like all day - so much infact that I had to take out my contacts because they were bothering me. One factor is that I didn't get invited to a party I really wanted to go to, everyone's been cross with me and I just feel like I've been doing everything wrong all day. I just want to disappear or die or something, because it's not like anyone would even care or notice. Why am I telling you this? I don't know, I just felt like I needed to talk to someone.

But I'll leave now.
Happy St. Patrick's day all,
Bai bai,
Allein :(

"She by the river sat, and sitting there, she wept, and made it deeper by a tear." - Herrick

Cassandra aka, Casey Tue Mar 16 13:42:04 PST 1999

Hideeho everybody

I'm on my little 3 hour break from classes right now. Tuesdays are the worst day for me in that regard, no time to myself, no time to write. :(

I got bit by the writing bug last night, because I was literally so bored that I couldn't stand not doing anything productive. Hyperactive fits lend some really interesting things to writing...

Guess my muse interceded at precisely the right moment this time. Funny how she usually only visits in the middle of classes, phone conversations, or important projects... I've learned not to make appointments. That way she's as clueless about when I have time as I am about when she'll visit.

Speaking of what people look like... I realized that I was using 'Casey' as my name here. It's only a nickname, and a gender neuter one as well. So perhaps it might be best if I used my full name. I am most definitely female... wait let me check again just to be sure.. Yup Female :)

I'll let people guess on the specifics, if they feel so inclined. If not, just send me an email and ask.

Ta ta all


"A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet" - shakespeare

michele Tue Mar 16 13:17:27 PST 1999



It's plagairise or plagairize - sorry - I was too tired to remember where the dratted i went...


It's Joseph Fiennes playing Will Shakespeare...

(Why am I the one who knows these names and I haven't even seen the film - too busy with college work to have time...)

Oh and when your dreams come true, you dream some more ! My dream of doing an English degree has come true - now I dream of getting my book written and published, of doing a publicity/signing tour in the US & Canada, of becoming a renowned lecturer (I can't help being a little weird !)... Some of my other dreams are a little too personal to repeat here...


It was nice chatting with you earlier - sorry I had to light out - my sister was trying to ring me and was most unimpressed to find she couldn't get through because I was on the Net... sighs siblings... :-)

Talking of what people look like, I was amazed to discover that despite having a most unremarkable - nondescript even - face, people remember who I am on a very short acquaintance... several of my tutors this semester knew who I was after one class with me (a mere 2 hours), and today when I went down to the public library to do some research, the librarian remembered me from last week - yet I only spoke to her briefly... now that's weird !!

Anyway I am going to wander away and do some more reading... and then crash into bed with some light fiction - I won't read college books in bed - I must have some peace.... !


To be any good you have to think you're the best of your generation.
-- Martin Amis

Howard Tue Mar 16 13:13:35 PST 1999

At the risk of beating this "cat" thing to death, I just received the following explanation (unsolicited) in my E-mail this very forenoon:
>A newly discovered chapter in the Book of Genesis has provided the answer
>to, "Where do pets come from?"
>Adam said, "Lord, when I was in the garden, you walked with me every day.
>Now I do not see you anymore. I am lonesome here & it is difficult for me
>to remember how much you love me."
>And God said, "No problem! I will create a companion for you that will be
>with you forever & who will be a reflection of my love for you so that you
>will love me even when you cannot see me. Regardless of how selfish or
>childish or unlovable you may be, this new companion will accept you as you
>are & will love you as I do, in spite of yourself."
>And God created a new animal to be a companion for Adam. And it was a good
>animal. And God was pleased. And the new animal was pleased to be with
>Adam & he wagged his tail. And Adam said, "Lord, I have already named all
>the animals in the Kingdom & I cannot think of a name for this new animal."
>And God said, "No problem! Because I have created this new animal to be a
>reflection of my love for you, his name will be a reflection of my own
>and you will call him DOG."
>And Dog lived with Adam & was a companion to him & loved him. And Adam was
>comforted. And God was pleased. And Dog was content & wagged his tail.
>After a while, it came to pass that Adam's guardian angel came to the Lord
>said, "Lord, Adam has become filled with pride. He struts & preens like a
>peacock & he believes he is worthy of adoration. Dog has indeed taught him
>that he is loved, but perhaps too well."
>And the Lord said, "No problem! I will create for him a companion who will
>be with him forever & who will see him as he is. The companion will remind
>him of his limitations, so he will know that he is not always worthy of
>And God created CAT to be a companion to Adam. And Cat would not obey Adam.
>And when Adam gazed into Cat's eyes, he was reminded that he was not the
>supreme being. And Adam learned humility.
>And God was pleased. And Adam was greatly improved.

Lena Tue Mar 16 12:20:32 PST 1999

Agsousa - I saw Shakespeare in Love a week or so ago, and I also liked it very much. The actor they had playing Shakespeare is now who I picture whenever I hear "Shakespeare," instead of the funny egg-shaped man with a receding hairline who always gets his picture in textbooks. I think I like the movie Shakespeare much better... he is much better looking! You can have Gwyneth Paltrow, I will take whatever-his-name-is.

I seem to have made a few hits and misses with my descriptions, but here are the rest of my descriptions...

Jai - A man in his twenties. Clean cut and outdoorsy, not an athlete but definitely in shape. Has a short, quick laugh, and often seems serious from a distance, though you soon learn different. A good guy to watch Monty Python with.
Allein - A, hmm, let me see, seventeen year old girl, with blonde hair and brown eyes. On the short side, often sits in the back of the classroom with friends she knows. Likes to be crazy, but has a serious side, especially when concerned with people.
Jack - A man in his late thirties/early forties, medium height with dark hair and eyes. He is a careful and hard worker, but with a hearty laugh when amused.

I believe that is it for the moment. I would do a few more people, but (as Rhoda mentioned) I am not confident on gender, and I would really, really hate to inadvertently offend. I was once in a chat room, under the name Wanderer, and it took me a while to realize the "he" several people were referring to was me. It was rather embarrassing to have to clarify, and I have tried not to make assumptions on sex since then, or at least not to say them outloud.

"What can you do once your dreams come true?"

agsousa Tue Mar 16 11:44:40 PST 1999

- plagiarize (or -ise)
- plagiarism
- plagiarist

Will everyone synchronize (or -ise) on spelling? Three different spelling methods had been used here — American, British and mine — till the word "plagiarize" and its compounds appeared. Now there are twenty three spellings. I am getting dizzy.

Gwynneth Paltrow — thanks again, Michele. And is she American? Of Polish descent, perhaps. Not even that? Oh, my...! The most beautiful woman I have ever seen was the moon. She is Portuguese, as you all know.

If you describe yourselves accurately you will lose mystery. Don't do that, please. Leave some room for dream and imagination. Reality is so trivial and boring! I know that times have changed, but I remember Graham Green saying that a writer should not show himself too much. However, I am curious about someone's description of her/himself to check if the voice corresponds to the physique. No lies, please!I had a fine voice till tobacco got on my throat — so, things change. If I stop smoking — which I will never do if someone tells me to — my wonderful voice of yore will make you see new stars and planets and, with a bit of luck, even Meg Ryan on a Saturday night.

Thomas: what is your Jane Austen waiting for to publish here? Aren't we all eager to learn and be charmed? Vinho do Porto — how nice!

Rhoda Tue Mar 16 09:54:12 PST 1999

Allein and Lena,

Thank you so much for the flattering and nice descriptions of myself. If only they were true. Allein, I'd give anything to be a Hispanic woman because many of them are so pretty. It would also be great to be bilingual and to have a foot in two worlds. Sadly I am pretty nondescript in looks. If I didn't wear make-up on occassions, I would hardly be noticed. If you would like to see how I look, go over to my webpage and on my biography page you will see my family portrait. You will see there that I am a redhead and that I look quite Anglo-Saxon. I have blue eyes, and I am just under 5' 7". As far as the rest of the descriptions, they aren't bad. When I am not in one of my occassional driven modes, I can be quite pleasant and will converse with anyone, and I suppose I do laugh a lot.

I also have mental images of some of you, but I know many would be off. What is really wild is that once in awhile, I come up with the wrong sex. I feel really bad when I realize my mistake in that. It probably isn't hard to do considering the fact that many who post use unusual and unisex type names. Then there are so many matters we discuss where it really doesn't matter, so it can be a long time before I get a clue.

S.N. Arly,

I visited the web-sites you gave. They were extremely informative. I haven't figured out how to do that fancy c in a circle though. A couple of years ago I let a friend of mine offer up my first novel for electronic publication--a e-book. I only sold 4 (3 of them to people I knew) of them. I worried about plagurism and copyright then, but then concluded that if the plagurist could have more luck than me bringing that book into publication, then he or she deserves some regard. Acy. It would also be great to be bilingual and to have a foot in two worlds. Sadly I am pretty nondescript in looks. If I didn't wear make-up on occassions, I would hardly be noticed. If you would like to see how I look, go over to my webpage and on my biography page you will see my family portrait. You will see there that I am a redhead and that I look quite Anglo-Saxon. I have blue eyes, and I am just under 5' 7". As far as the rest of the descriptions, they aren't bad. When I am not in one of my occassional driven modes, I can be quite pleasant and will converse with anyone, and I suppose I do laugh a lot.

I also have mental images of some of you, but I know many would be off. What is really wild is that once in awhile, I come up with the wrong sex. I feel really bad when I realize my mistake in that. It probably isn't hard to do considering the fact that many who post use unusual and unisex type names. Then there are so many matters we discuss where it really doesn't matter, so it can be a long time before I get a clue.

S.N. Arly,

I visited the web-sites you gave. They were extremely informative. I haven't figured out how to do that fancy c in a circle though. A couple of years ago I let a friend of mine offer up my first novel for electronic publication--a e-book. I only sold 4 (3 of them to people I knew) of them. I worried about plagurism and copyright then, but then concluded that if the plagurist could have more luck than me bringing that book into publication, then he or she deserves some regard. Actually, I would have been livid if I ever thought such a thing happened. I also wish to commend you on your web-page. You have done a lot to it since I saw it last.


I'm so glad it worked out for you. It does put a damper on enthusiasm when things like that happen.


Sorry I interrupted your chat. Many times I go into the chat room out of curiousity just to see who is there. If I do wish to chat in the future, it would probably be best just to announce a time when I will be in the chat room.

Well, I had better be off.

Happy writing!


Michele Tue Mar 16 08:39:01 PST 1999

Hi all

Thanks to everyone who's commented on my victory over the plaigariser - I will look back occasionally to make sure it hasn't reappeared.

Lena and Allein

How wrong you girls are on physical description !!

I am 5 foot 4 (don't ask me in metres - I don't translate !), with short brown hair, hazel eyes. I always wear a baseball cap outdoors... I've never worn stylish clothes in my life - I'd look silly - I am the most unfeminine woman ever - I wear trousers all the time and men's shirts (because they don't do cotton shirts for women and I can't wear polyester/nylon stuff).

I am 30 - so not that young... however, I am sensible (mostly - but with a crazy streak).

But intelligent and hardworking, with an eye to the future is accurate - and yes, my movements do tend to be measured, although I can't imagine anyone calling me graceful - being the daughter of an ex-Army man I tend to stride (if not march) rather than walking...

I'm sorry I can't reciprocate on this - I have a very poor visual imagination and never really visualise people before I meet/see them... I can't visualise buildings or landscapes either - I don't know why this is. I think in words and have never been very good at seeing pictures... I began engaging with words intensely at an early age - more or less as soon as I learnt to read, and so have had little contact with pictures...


The name of the actress playing the heroine in S.inL. is Gwynneth Paltrow - don't be deceived - she's an American not an Englishwoman...

Anyway I need to answer some emails that arrived as I was downloading this page, so I'll talk to you all later...


The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

S.N.Arly Tue Mar 16 07:39:24 PST 1999

Hootie - Yah. That's the crap I've heard. "It's obviously the mark of a paranoid amateur..." And frankly I don't care. If an editor chooses to be offended because I'm covering myself, it's their loss. And what are they doing in the writing business if they get offended because someone is taking precautions? Once I post or mail out a submission it is out of my realm of influence; I have no control over where it goes and what happens to it, so I'll continue to offer my fledgling stories what protection I can. A semester of mass media law with Professor Ivan will teach you to slap a notice on everything.

So to quell rumors of my paranoia, I'm honestly not concerned that someone will steal my stuff. I certainly wouldn't expect a respectable editor to do such a thing. By the same token, I'd like to avoid the ugliness that can and does occur in the writing world. And as for being earmarked as an amateur, HA HA HA! The only amateur I am is in the radio world.

While I used to send out my subs without the copyright notice, I don't anymore. And I haven't noticed a degeneration in my rejection letters either. I've even gotten some nice personal ones back, so I'm just going to assume that whole thing is a writing variety of urban myth.


"Ever since I was young, it's been my dream,
that I might drive the zambonii machine.
I'd get that ice just as slick as could be,
and all the kids would look up to me."
- Gear Daddies

S.K.S. Perry Tue Mar 16 07:19:57 PST 1999


I'm all of a whopping 5'6" and a bit (hey, that bit's important!!) and have more of an athletic build (46" chest, 32" waist.) As for the rest, everyone says you're bang on. I'll have to take some time (I know I've got some lying around here somewhere) and try to come up with some descriptions of my own.

S.N. Arly,

I've heard the same thing about copywrites as you have - that publishers consider it amateurish.

Be Well, Live Well.

Tue Mar 16 07:19:22 PST 1999

Allein Tue Mar 16 07:13:01 PST 1999

Jack - sorry for coming in during the chat.

But - and this is for everyone - I agree with Jack that if you want to chat privately with someone in the chat room (for whatever reason) please post on the notebook when you will be there and approximetely for how long, then we will know to stay out. :)

Well, Lena's message got me to thinking that I've developed a mental picture of people here. Here are a few:
Thomas: A man in his mid-thirties with sandy brown hair, blue eyes, a great build (he must work out). He's the kind of person that you can always talk to about anything.
Rhoda: A woman in her late thirties, hispanic with black hair and kind brown eyes, she's very pleasent looking - you know, when you look at her, you just know that she is a nice person.
Lena: young, at the oldest is in her late twenties, long dark brown hair and green eyes. She has a pale complexion and is very intelligent looking - you can tell she's a thinker.
Michele: about the same age as Lena with dusty blonde hair that is short and sylish and blue eyes. She's petite and is always wearing the latest in clothing styles.
Jai: Asain, has dark eyes and hair - hair is always nicely combed. Looks very intelligent - usually dressed up in a suit.

Well, I'll put more on later, because right now, I have to go to
Bai bai,

Hootie Tue Mar 16 05:41:20 PST 1999

Litter--I agree with SNarly, but would add that the blank page is the most fearsome creature in the writer's world.

Avatar--I'll have to e-mail you about Jordan and Goodkind. After all, there's no reason to scare everyone else with plots that have lasted though eight books and thousands of pages.

SNarly--You mentioned that some writers have been upset with you putting a copyright notice on your stories. If you post them on the web, I'd say that you're just being safe. But from what I understand, a copyright notice on a submission can make you look like an amateur, or even offend the editor. The reasoning is that you are questioning their integrity, and implying that they might steal the story. Has anyone else heard this?

Michele--Ah, the joys of the internet. But it looks like you won this round, and the multiple copyright notices should help. If it happens again, don't be afraid to ask us for help. We'll bury them with e-mails.

Beware the fury of a patient man.
--Unknown (to me, anyway)

Thomas Tue Mar 16 05:28:07 PST 1999


I always wanted to be tall -- thanks. And thanks for the rest of the description.

Modest soul that I am, I let my wife hear your descriptions to see if they fit. She concurs.

She says she always wanted me to be tall too.


Speaking of my wife, if she were inclined to get on the Notebook you will have found your Jane Austen -- she can recite Austen backwards, forwards and upside down.

In the year 2,000, my wife and her best friend will celebrate their collective 50th birthdays with a trip to England, to retrace Austen's character's footsteps, and perhaps look for handsome men in Mansfield Park.

Tasted a Feist Late Bottle Vintage 1991; a true wedge from the slice of heavenly pie that is vinho da Oporto.


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