Archived Messages from July 16, 1999 to July 29, 1999


Rachel danolson@sprint.ca Thu Jul 29 08:38:54 PDT 1999

Hi all

Hey Larry - I am alive and well. I have just been a little busy (grins). I am sure you know what its like.
I have been enjoying your story and when you check your e-mail you will discover one in there from me. (I just sent it off this morning)
I am going camping this weekend and plan to print off the rest of what you sent me to take along.
So, you can feel free to fire on the next few chapters so that I've got more to look at when I come back (big smile)!

Shadows people - GREAT WORK!!!!!!! It has been such an experience writing with all of you (I send you all a big hug).

Take care all
Rachel


Sqrl Sqrlmunk55@aol.com Thu Jul 29 07:55:35 PDT 1999

Miss me?

HI everyone! I am visiting the bb! I am NOT at home, and have FINALLY gotten my hands on the writers notebook's address (thanks Casey!). I knew I was going to be away and would not be able to add anymore to the story, while I'm stuck where I am (not home that is).

Americo- If you do decide to use sqrl in the story, and you need more writings, let me know, I think I can figure something out.
If I had known about it being extended to the 28th I might have been able to pull something off. But, that is no one's fault but my own!

Thanks
Sqrl
oh if anyone needs to get ahold of me, I'm at the following e-mail address until Sunday: Grover6969@webtv.net



Jack Beslanwitch Wed Jul 28 22:30:25 PDT 1999

Americo: I got a last parting piece before the deadline. However, I am working off my laptop in the middle of Coco's here in Kirkland using my wireless modem. Unfortunately, the formatting I used got all screwed up. The text is still there in OK form. I have more I would have liked, but wanted to get my editor a little more fleshed out. Take care and look forward to the next project.


Larry Edwarts ltouzet@gs.verio.com Wed Jul 28 21:12:04 PDT 1999

Where are Rachel & Martin?


Americo Wed Jul 28 16:49:19 PDT 1999

Sorry to hear that, Hootie. Anyway, it's nice to see you back.

Jon asked me to tell you (he's already snoring, poor darling) that if he ever writes a book he will use his name (whatever it is).


Hootie mhooten@csw.L-3com.com Wed Jul 28 13:21:34 PDT 1999

Jon--When you write your book, will you use a psuedonym?

Rhoda--Glad I could be of some help. And if other writers have questioned the agent's integrity, that's a bad sign.

Arik--Heard and read of all of them. How about Orson Scott Card, Charles DeLint, and Terry Goodkind?

Americo--I am sorry that I did not get my contribution in. I was never going to make it to the Chelsea anyway.


Americo Wed Jul 28 13:12:35 PDT 1999

Okay, Allein. Alleine shall be. (And I like it best as well)

Rhoda: I hope you give a good conclusion to your excellent text. Nothing facile or implausible, please (Not that you'd ever dream of making recourse to facile solutions. I know you best —:))

The Bonnie "bastardization" (your word) has nothing to do with the beautiful and melancholy Portuguese-Galician poem I published here some time ago. I said it was NOT Castilian (aka, Spanish) in that message, though some knowledge of "Spanish" could perhaps help.


Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Wed Jul 28 12:36:51 PDT 1999

Americo - You said that you might have to change some of the names of the story for some reason or another. If you decide to change my name, could you please just use the different spelling: Alleine.
Thank you,
Allein


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Wed Jul 28 11:33:18 PDT 1999

Hallo, all notebookers!
Please read this note with attention!

Today is the last day for ANY denizen of our notebook to post on "Shadows". After midnight PDT no NEW collaborators will be admitted.

I remind ALL collaborators that they may enjoy the privilege of an extended deadline (25th August 1999) to CONCLUDE their story lines.

In order to allow for a fair distribution of the proceeds from the book, only collaborators with at least 6000 (six thousand) words of accepted text will be considered as co-authors. (By "accepted" it is meant text adequate enough to be included in the final version of the novel.) However, exceptions may be considered to collaborators contributing with exceptionally good material, regardless of its size.

Every collaborator must be prepared to allow corrections, amendments, deletions and everything thought necessary for the good of the project, without further notification.

This note shall also be published on the 5th slate of the round robin.


Arik to Jon Nesis@actcom.co.il Http://www.angelfire.com/sk/TironZ Wed Jul 28 10:38:51 PDT 1999

Hello Jon. nice to hear from you ;-). thank you for delicating the book to me but I will write it too... how can you delicate a book to someone who is writing it? :-)


Atol to Jack Beslanwitch Nesis@actcom.co.il Http://www.angelfire.com/sk/TironZ Wed Jul 28 10:36:52 PDT 1999

Jack Beslanwitch, what's up? if you publish the book, then you get money for it.. right? where does it go? will you translate it to some language?


Arik to Hotie Nesis@actcom.co.il Http://www.angelfire.com/sk/TironZ Wed Jul 28 10:34:37 PDT 1999

Hotie, how are you? thank you for the book, I will try it :-). do you like fantasy? wais, hickman, jordan... know eny of those?


Rhoda rfort@ren.net Wed Jul 28 09:07:21 PDT 1999

Americo,

After my grocery shopping, which I have put off because of my writing, I will sit down and wrap up my contribution to Shadows. I have spent the past few days thinking how I was going to get Dr. Kirk off the hook. Rachel did it delightfully. You should be grateful to her. I wouldn't have let Kirk off so easily. Poor Rachel bore the worst of Millicent and her vindictive curse. But there are still loose ends. So have no fear, I will not let you down.

I have been taking my Spanish course and still cannot translate your poem. I think someone here already has. If this poem is indeed a bastardized version of "My bonnie lies over the ocean," I am going to be mad at you, Americo.

Weston and Hootie:

Thanks for the advice. I do know one excellent agent in Amarillo who does charge an upfront office expense fee. I have met her at two conferences and I personally know some of her associates and published authors. I sent her a query letter, but she did not take me on. My present situation is strange because there is so little information about this agent. He gives little in his letter. I did send him a letter with ten questions and a request for references. I am curious to see how he answers. How he answers and his willingness to answer would be a good indication of his success and his sincerity. I think from now on, I am going to be more careful who I query to. I did get someone earlier who prasied my book to the skies and then tried to refer me to Edit Ink. You would think that these people could find easier ways to get rich. Why don't they sell fradulent stocks on the telephone or manufacture fake beanie babies? Surely there are better saps out there than aspiring writers.

The web site you guys refered me to was very helpful. I found that I was not the only person who had questions about this particular agent. I have bookmarked that site and will refer to it often, for it has many useful articles.

Well, there is much work to be done.

Happy Writing!

Rhoda


Allein Tue Jul 27 21:28:04 PDT 1999

Cassandra - this is odd though, it seems I get on just after you got off or are signing off.
Allein


Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Tue Jul 27 21:26:59 PDT 1999

Hi Cassandra - (((BIG HUG))) I'm glad you're okay - well, all but the stress - I'm mainly talking physically. I sent you an e-mail enquiring about your whereabouts but that was before I checked the notebook, so, don't get all annoyed with me for sending a bunch of e-mails - the thing is I miss you 'cause you're my friend and I don't have many good friends - I want to talk to you as soon as possible. K? :)
Allein


Cassandra arcane128@hotmail.com http://www.angelfire.com/ny2/emeraldflame Tue Jul 27 19:23:10 PDT 1999

I am here! Alive and well, thought slightly peeved at the curveballs life has been throwing me lately. I have 2 of the guys at work trying to go out with me, and people trying to convince me either one way or the other. Added to this... I am trying to get another one of the waitresses to cover a weekend for me so that I can go to a writer's conference in August.

*sigh* No Martin, unfortunately this is not heaven. :) quite the reverse at times though...

My writing has been delayed for a while, seems my muse is not visiting with her usual frequency, but she'll be back (hopefully VERY soon.)

ta ta
the very much alive
Casey

...can't think of an appropriate quote at the moment... so :P


The Old Man Tue Jul 27 19:18:12 PDT 1999

Ladies and Gentlemen,

The day was born new and cool today. It is a welcome relief from the heat of summer.

This should narrow your search of me to the northern Hemisphere.

Is not the airplane a marvelous thing?
To wake up in 'your' town with the familiar and the expected surrounding you and sleep the same night in a place so new that the air itself seems made only today.
The sound of seagulls and spider monkeys, too close for complete comfort. The smell of cook-fires lit in the heat of day to scorch the squid and pork for the lunch crowd.
Gritty dust from unpaved streets in your hair. Water vapor you can see across the field on the edge of town and all around are people living in 'their' town. People surrounded by the familiar and the expected.
If only they could leave this old and mangy place. If only the airplane would take them where you are...

Enlightenment is knowing that the place where you are is not yours.

T.O.M.


Jack Beslanwitch Tue Jul 27 18:37:05 PDT 1999

Not sure what I did wrong, but the fifth page of Shadow is now up and working correctly. Bon Appetit!!!



Americo Tue Jul 27 17:37:32 PDT 1999

Larry: don't give it a second thought. Our notebook is notorious for misunderstandings. I think it is because of its grainy background. If it were light blue, green letters, everything would be easier to understand and there should be not so many mispellings.

Hommie (you probably mean Homem): lovely adaptation. It gave me the second burst of laughter the day. The first was when I woke up in the morning and saw that I had overslept and would not get in time for a vital meeting in my career. (It could make me rich but then I should have to work — boring).I turned my face to the wall and went back to my dream of Meg Ryan. I love Meg Ryan. Actually I am still here because I am waiting an email from her.

Allein: I hope you are well. I'm feeling wonderful. I arose of dreams of thee in the first sweet sleep of night (that was Shelley, the husband of Mary Shelley, the author of a fantastic book — "Frankenstein! (AAAGHHrrrkkkahhh!!!!ahrsrhd) Only guttural letters can produce the effect I wanted. I'm afraid it did not frighten anyone. Not even TOM!


Jon Tue Jul 27 17:20:27 PDT 1999

Just to see if I can still write after yesterday's disappointment in Canada. Those people are so penisless that I had to pay the drinks to the four people I confounded with our own TOM. And I went into the fridge of one of them, to see if there was something to eat. It was so empty that I came out with tears in my eyes.

Hootie, how are you? Fine, I hope. I am also fine. We are reading here a great book: "The Little Lady Fontlreine". Better, first we have to write it. And then we'll read it. It's cheaper than buying a published book. Good poetic fantasy. It will be dedicated to our new friend Arik.


Americo Tue Jul 27 13:55:29 PDT 1999

Jack: I tried the 5th page. I could not publish anything there. Are you sure everything is all right?


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Tue Jul 27 13:39:04 PDT 1999

Jack: thanks. I did not see your post before I published mine. I'm afraid some of the texts will have to be rejected. They do not fit the theme. This novel is going to need a big rewriting if it ever gets the level of "publishable". Many collaborators left their story lines unfinished. There is also a problem of verisimilitude. Even fantasy needs some kind of inner logic. I am not feeling very enthusiastic today. Well, still some hours to go.


Americo Tue Jul 27 13:30:04 PDT 1999

Hello, everybody!

Today is my sixth month here. I should feel happy but I am too busy for happiness. I have been working hard reading "Shadows in a Dream". I have been thinking seriously about its future on the light of the quality of the work produced so far. Is there anyone who would like to help giving a critical opinion?


Jack Beslanwitch jack@forwriters.com Tue Jul 27 13:24:35 PDT 1999

Hello all: Shadows is now archived to its fourth edition and the entry page is a blank slate. So, Shadow people jump in and take a swim. I have some things in the works that I hope will explore a confrontation between the sleezeball agent and myself and the assistant editor at the ball.


Arik: Publication is indeed the hoped for goal for Shadow.


Americo gets first go around in terms of editorial review. Then the remaining round robin authors get their input, but the originator has final say. If it is published the authors share in the proceeds. You can find the exact text of the rules on the Workshop web site.


And Fran's computer now seems to be functioning after a great deal of cussing, fuming and contemplation of blow torches and hand grenades. Take care everyone.


Hotie mhooten@csw.L-3com.com Tue Jul 27 06:49:03 PDT 1999

Arik--If you want a good fantasy novel to read, may I suggest THE RIDDLE MASTER OF HED by Patricia McKillip? It is a wonderful tale, and she has a very poetic style. Even Americo would probably like her writing.

Rhoda--I have to agree with Weston. If you are still interested, however, ask important questions: what exactly does the $200 cover? Will you have to sign a contract? Can the agent provide refernces? The answers to these questions might alleviate your fears--or it might sharpen them. Also, if you visit the SFWA website, it has a section called Writers Beware that covers most of the major scams, and how to avoid them. Good luck, and remember that what a publisher thinks is publishable is not necessarily what a reader thinks is readable.


Weston wcbye@centuryinter.net Tue Jul 27 05:04:16 PDT 1999

Rhoda- I would urge caution in paying an agent up front. Most of what I have read on various writer's websites suggest "run, don't walk" away from such agents. There may be a difference between the agent who is paid for results and one who is paid for promising results. The first has to work to get the money. The second only has to promise.

Of course, if you have $200 to spare for an experiment...

If you haven't already visited the site, look at http://sfwa.org/writing/
Even though the organization is for Science Fiction writers, most of the material applies to writing, submitting and publishing in general, with links to other websites.

Wes


Arik to all Nesis@actcomc.co.il Http://www.angelfire.com/sk/TironZ Tue Jul 27 04:02:10 PDT 1999

Hello all, well since we HAVE to talk about "S" then let me ask you something :-) what do you do with the "S" after you finish it? do you publish it?

have fun everyone


Jack Tue Jul 27 00:17:01 PDT 1999

Ok, folks. I will do an archive first thing in the morning. Sorry to say that I have spent most of today trying to get Fran's computer functional after a collapse. After that I got disgusted and sat down and got drunk (am currenlty). So, I will make a stab at the archive when I I am assurred that I will not make mistakes. Take care and sorry about the extension. Rest assurred it will happen and I will have something up for those even after the deadline.


hommie hommie@notnet.net Mon Jul 26 21:14:19 PDT 1999

Americo you slie dog you! That pome isnt spanol, its Portugeese! I think.
If its spanol its lose translaton is;

my bonny lies over the oscean
my bonny lies over the sea
my daddy lied over my mommy
and thats how my mommy got me.

or mabey not

hommie


Larry Edwardts ltouzet@gs.verio.com Mon Jul 26 20:39:17 PDT 1999

Americo!
Sorry! I just relate too easily to idiot. Paranoia probably or a mispent pubescence.


Kawinkiedinsky Mon Jul 26 19:18:54 PDT 1999

TOM:

Jon is already sleeping with his Pussy. But I will tell him your message when ( or if) he wakes up.


The Old Man Mon Jul 26 19:12:05 PDT 1999

Greetings and felicitations,

It has been brought up that an inordinate number of writers have cats. The question is, why?
It is the cat's eyes. Cats are ruled by their eyes which take up most of the space in their little skulls. With eyes so big that they intrude on the brain, they can concentrate on on thing at a time.
This is why writers of all people keep cats. Writers see things that most others overlook. They become single-minded in persuit of their objectives and stare for long moments at nothing on the wall.
Writers relate to cats.

Dogs are dull-witted in comparison, and while there are writers who keep them, they are denying the real companion of a thoughtful being.

Jon, I hope that this serves to keep you from the places where I live, as they are filled already with others of your kind. The ones that share my space may welcome you...but then again, they may not, as they are intensly possessive of me and my time.

T.O.M.


Americo (again) Mon Jul 26 16:52:40 PDT 1999

Oh, my Apollo! It's not that many. It's just around 300 pages only.

You see, I have been printing two pages on a single sheet. I used to numbering them manually up to about the 100th SHEET. That would make 200 A-4 pages. After that I decided to have Word numbering the sheets and the b* numbered the PAGES. Conclusion: 100 single sheets (double pages) plus 100 single pages. That must be about 300 pages. In my books I never give a damn for the number of pages. My counting is always different from what the tipographers get, so I gave up counting early in life. But since I am so proud of you, I've been measuring up your talent in pages. Sorry for my poor "countability". Who expected a writer to also be an accountant?

Anyway, you still have some time to reach the 400 pages I dreamed about. Do not forget that good editors (like me) tend to use a big trash to produce a publishable version.

That reminds me we need a publisher. But first we need a good book. So, let's set to work! You do not want me to tell you that Rachel and I wrote almost half of your stuff, do you? Okay, I won't say nothing.


Americo Mon Jul 26 16:11:37 PDT 1999

PEOPLE!!!

Now that Arik has gone to bed, we can talk business. Guess how many pages we have written for "S" in just about 4 months. Around 400 (four hundred) pages! I have just printed them and could hardly believe my eyes. You are wonderful, ladies and gentlemen!

Oh, Jack! I don't know how to ask you this... but we need a 5th slate! The current one already has 140k and there are still two days left! On the other hand, I think everybody deserves to have some room to publish more over my holidays. The first thing I'll do when I come back from Brazil will be to check new additions! If they are in agreement with the subject, I will put them in.

Am I not a darling? People, give me a big kiss. I give you all my love!

And there is another great news. I may get in touch with you from Brazil. One of the friend who is going to put us up for some time seems to be connected to the Internet! Isn't this wonderful? I am really excited!


Arik to all Nesis@actcom.co.il Http://www.angelfire.com/sk/TironZ Mon Jul 26 14:11:21 PDT 1999

Well all, it is bed time so I have to go but really, think about my suggestion. We can all read a book and then discuss it in here :-) I'm open for more sugestions :-)

hope you'll have fun : Arik


Arik to Jon Nesis@actcom.co.il Http://www.angelfire.com/sk/TironZ Mon Jul 26 14:09:42 PDT 1999

Jon, have fun and try not to drive too fast, will you? :-)


Arik - Prisioner of Albatross Nesis@actcom.co.il Http://www.angelfire.com/sk/TironZ Mon Jul 26 14:08:02 PDT 1999

Prisioner of Albatross, how are you? I guess you are another one of the Americo "Friends" but whatever. thank you for telling me that :-)


Jon Mon Jul 26 13:39:24 PDT 1999

Will you people stop thinking so loudly? I need to work. I am about to find the true identity of TOM. I think I'll get drunk tonight. Ya, methinks I'll get him in his hiding place. So much beer free! Do not start telling me you are also thirsty. I am pityless! (I did not right penisless, did I?)


Prisioner of Albatross. Mon Jul 26 13:35:41 PDT 1999

Americo is having dinner now but he asked me to tell his dear friend Arik that he hates sex though he is a terrible feminist. He thinks women are more intuitive, more understanding (he need a lot of understanding because he is a great sinner) more hard-working, more beautiful and more sexy (of course this last item does not interest him much). They are not great chess-players (he is very good at that) but they can beat him on that game all the time if they just smile at him.

Allein! Who told you the Marquis of Sade was insane? The person who told you that must be insane. I only know two insane people in the world literature. Americo and I. I love Sade. I skip the sexual part but I adore blood. How could you make sausages without blood? Pray tell me. And the best version of the Hunchback of Notre Dame is in "S" (written by my master Kirk).

Must rush now. (I am becoming rather American in my goodbyes).

PS. I hear today is a holiday on the notebook. Is that true? I am all in for a little holiday from time to time.


Arik to americana Nesis@actcom.co.il Http://www.angelfire.com/sk/TironZ Mon Jul 26 13:23:12 PDT 1999

Americana. I'll love to write a book with you "The little lady fontlreine" sounds nice. I dont agree with the other part about women beeing a better writers.. are you a pheminist? if so then we have a lot of things to fight about ;-)."Kama Sutra" it is ONLY about sex, will you like that? Still think we can chat about it in here, with everyone?


Americo Mon Jul 26 12:57:51 PDT 1999

But, Arik, if, as you say, Kama Sutra is an "Indians Book" and therefore may be it has marvellous scenes of fighting. The philosophy of the Indian women must also be nice. I love philosophy of any kind. Of course if the book includes sex, I will not read those parts. I'll read only the philosophical texts and also the fighting. Sorry, but I think I like this book better than the one you recommended, though this one is shorter (and probably less expensive) . "The Little Lord fontlroi" ... The title is good, mainly "the little lord". Isn't there any think about ladies? I would read with pleasure "The little lady fontlreine" but probably it has not been published yet. I had an idea, Perhaps we could write "The Little Lady" collectively, as a round robin. Then we could discuss it here and I would read it for sure. I think women are very lovely, don't you? They write much more and much better than men and they are so sentimental! What do you think?


Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Mon Jul 26 12:53:10 PDT 1999

Books - ever since I learned to read I've been addicted to them. My favorite book of all time is The Hunchback of Notre Dame (and yes, I went to see the movie too - however, it was a great disappointment). Actually, I read the book before seeing the movie. It was an assignment in class to read a Classic, so I picked it up at the library. I got an A on the book report I did for it and I was quite proud of myself. I also read Huckleberry Finn - although, I found it quite boring. I read the Three Muskateers - also quite boring - they make it sound exciting, but then you read it... I've also read The Catcher in the Rye, Of Mice and Men, Necter in a Sieve, and Lord of the Flies - all great books.
I've heard of the Kama Sutra (there was a documentary about it on the Discovery channel)and it seems like it would be quite an interesting book but I'm not sure our library carries it.

Americo - Le Marquis de Sade was insane. His writings are supposedly well written (I've never read him - again, my information comes from the Discovery Channel) but they all consist of violent sex. He was one of those people who got sexually aroused by the sight of blood and such. Supposedly, he wrote of what he wanted to do and did do to innocent people (see info above). I think you get the picture. I'm not saying that you shouldn't read his work, I'm just giving you the information that you requested. I, actually, would like to read some of his work - perhaps we could discuss it over lunch...if I ever come to Portugal. :)

Casey - Where are you? PLEASE come back to us!! You're deeply missed! :)

Well, I shall sign off now to go to my chores.
(((BIG HUGS FOR EVERYONE)))
Allein


Arik - Rhoda Nesis@actcom.co.il Http://www.angelfire.om/sk/TironZ Mon Jul 26 12:27:04 PDT 1999

Rhoda, I was happy to hear about you :-). I want to ask you something: Dont confuse: Fantasy is N O T scince fiction. Fantasy writers hate when people fut the two things in the same category, I think sc-fi writers don't like it too :-). WOW, lots of books, all I did this summer is finnished a book. do you write something?
Yours: Arik


Arik to Americana Nesis@actcom.co.il Http://www.angelfire.com/sk/TironZ Mon Jul 26 12:14:37 PDT 1999

Americana, "Kama Sutra" is an Indians Book about the tecnix and philosophy of sex. I'll love to read it but I dont think it is a good book to discuse in here :-) I do have a good book to recomend, it is short, nice and I think we can discuss it for a very long time. it called "The Little Lord fontlroi" by: Franses Aliza Hogson Brant. will you read that? it is very nice and a good written book.
hope to hear from you soon: Arik


Rhoda rfort@ren.net Mon Jul 26 12:12:55 PDT 1999

Arik,

I am afraid that fantasy books are not what I read. My husband reads them. The last sci-fi book I read was a Star Trek book called IMAZI. I wonder if that book really qualified as Sci-fi? It was OK.

I have read a lot this summer. Now I am reading Jane Austen's MANSFIELD PARK. This is the only Austen novel I have never read. I recently read Joan Wolf's THE GAMBLE. It is not a new book, but it is the book that gets touted the most, so I read it, and it was great. I read a Christina Dodd book. I think it was called THE PRINCESS. I thought it was a bit silly and boring. I was disappointed, for she is a New York Times best seller. I read the whole thing, because I paid so much for the book, I felt honor bound to finish it. And I can now honestly say that I have read a Christina Dodd book. I read recently a three novel Inspriational (Christian) romance series. I really liked that one. The only bad thing about it is that in 1800 these British characters were dancing walzes in India. The waltz was brought to England in 1814, and was considered quite daring. It was many years after that before "nice" girls were allowed to dance it without getting permission from the leaders of polite society. Other than that glaring anachronism, the book was good. The author was Linda Chiakim.

Then there have been all the books on the American West and the California gold rush. I've read so many of those lately that they all run together. I do have one to recommend other espiring writers. Donald Maass's THE CAREER NOVELIST which offers much practical advice. This guy, who is an agent, knows much about writers and what drives them. He also has a keen knowledge of the market.

I got a letter from an agent who read VALERIE'S SONG and wishes to represent it. I know nothing about this person. He does ask $200.00 up front for marketing expenses. I have very mixed feelings about this type of fee. Many reputable agencies do charge this type of fee, but before I'd pay one I would want to make sure this guy has an honorable reputation. Beyond that, is this guy competent? Would he and I work well together?

This is difficult because after so many rejections, I could easily accept the first offer that comes my way. I have not only been rejected, but I have had this book "trashed" in a contest. Can I believe anyone now when they say that they liked my book and think it is marketable? I still believe in this project. I think it has merit, but all I have heard over the course of this last year was that it is too long, and doesn't fit requirements A,B,C and Z for publication. I have heard some very good things about it from friends who have read it.

I suppose I must put emotions and doubts aside and approach this problem in a business-like manner. I must ask for more information, get references and check out this prospect. If the book is really good, there will be more interest down the line for it. Then again, this agent might be just the guy for me. This is rough. It is harder than a marriage proposal.

Well that is what is going on here. I hope, Arik, in light of all this, you can ever find me an interesting correspondant. I really think you should be right at home here, for there are so many like Jack, Goodweed and Steve who write excellent Sci-fi and Fantasy. There are many, many more, but I just can't think of them off-hand.

Well, I must sign off, switch over to my Wordperfect and compose a letter to this prospective agent.

Happy writing and Happy reading!

Rhoda


Americana Mon Jul 26 11:37:14 PDT 1999

Arik: What book should it be? In Summer we need something refreshing.
Ah!
An idea.
"Kama Sutra"? I wast told it is very nice. But I don't know anything about it. Could you please get some information for us? (Perhaps in a good encyclopedia). If you recommend it, I'll read it.
I also thought of Le Marquis de Sade. He is supposed to be a famous author, but I don't know... They say he is fantastic. Well, tell us what you think.
Some other book will do if it is recommended by you.
Your friend.
Americana (Yes, I still like it — it is all us us, isn't it?)


Arik to all Nesis@actcom.co.il Http://www.angelfire.com/sk/TironZ Mon Jul 26 11:17:50 PDT 1999

How are you "All"? well, since we all agree that we must chat about interesting then how about a..... books? anyone here read nice books? interesting books?..... Bad books? let us all know, I'd love to read a good book now ;-) maby we all have to descide a book to read and they discouse it with others?, what do you think?

yours: Arik


Arik to Americo Nesis@actcom.co.il Http://www.angelfire.com/sk/TironZ Mon Jul 26 11:14:41 PDT 1999

Hello "Americana" (Still like that name???) well, what do I do here... Not much, israel is a normal country with "normal"(if you can say that) people, it is also called "The 51st state" so you can understand how life here are :-) Moses... what about him? do you want to hear about who is was... I think I dont know much more then you do about this one.. *sorry*

hope to hear from you soon: Arik


Arik to Rhoda Nesis@actcom.co.il Http://www.angelfire.com/sk/TironZ Mon Jul 26 11:10:00 PDT 1999

Hello Rhoda, nice to hear from you. I'd love to chat about interesting things and book, but I"m affarde no one have read the books I did, like: Death gate sicle, Wheel of time and other fantasy things. If you did, I'll love to chat with you about this ;-)

can you recomend me something? yours: Arik


Americo Sun Jul 25 17:29:26 PDT 1999

Hey, Arik Nesis! I visited your website. All the items were working except the "fantasy chat". This one scould also be working, but it was too slow to load and I had to give up. This place here is also a forum and not a chat. If you talk about fantasy you'll have many people answering your messages, I think. If I were a fantasy writer, that's what I would do. Your top list should now read 45!


Americo Sun Jul 25 16:15:20 PDT 1999

Rhoda: yes, let us give Kirk a a kick in the rear! But how? I've been dreaming about that all my life. The guy always finishes by escaping through the rear door... I think he is Mephistopheles in disguise. Damn! This reminds me I forgot introducing Jon in the action. He sent me an e-mail from Canada complaining bitterly about that. He should be a prominent character in the mask ball! What is he doing in Canada? I have no idea. He signed his message as "looking for T.O.M" Shouldn't he try England instead? Old Man, we miss you! And, please, hide yourself! Jon is a thirsty cat...

Arik, my friend: you are absolutely right. Let us talk about something really interesting. How about (what do you suggest?) Tell us about you daily life, Israel, Moses —anything will do. We, old faces, have run out of ideas. I am going to visit your web-site in a moment :—)


Rhoda rfort@ren.net Sun Jul 25 15:32:39 PDT 1999

Americo,

Kill Kirk? Never!!! I just think Kirk deserves a bit of a scare. Heaven knows Rachel, Rhoda and some of the other characters had some scary moments. Kirk is so in control. He manipulates others and plays with their feelings. He needs a little shaping up. I love Kirk, despite his pecularities. Perhaps it is his bad boy tendencies that make him so endearing. I would never kill him, but I would gladly give him a little kick in the rear.

Arik,

The Notebook gets this complaint all the time. There are people who come here who wish to be entertained. That is great. I love to be entertain people. It is a two way street though. If you wish to discuss books, then discuss books. Discuss whatever you like and take some control of the conversation. There are plenty of us to join along. The Notebook is a group effort. It can be as rich and interesting as you want it to be, but that takes an investment from YOU. Why don't you say something outrageous and provocative instead of waiting for someone else to do it for you?

Happy Writing!

Rhoda


Arik - to all Nesis@actcom.co.il Http://www.angelfire.com/sk/TironZ Sun Jul 25 12:04:52 PDT 1999

People, please... lets talk about something more.. ahh, "Interesting" this forum is booring. Books maybe?


Sun Jul 25 08:07:33 PDT 1999


Sun Jul 25 08:07:26 PDT 1999


Sun Jul 25 08:07:21 PDT 1999


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Sun Jul 25 08:07:11 PDT 1999

Larry: "Life is a tale full of sound and fury, told by an idiot, signifying nothing" is a famous sentence written by William Shakespeare. How could I have use it in a derogatory way? And why? You story impressed and moved me, and I even sent hugs to you in that message, whose aim was just to give you some comfort in what I figured out to be a distressing family situation. Sorry if I was not enough clear and gave you a wrong impression of my intentions, which, I repeat, were good and friendly.
------------
People: Today is the 25th July. The deadline for "S" has been extended till the 28th. I will ONLY print and edit the material published till that date. I hope to work on it during my holidays, in August. The deadline is not a whim but a necessity. Contrary to what I may give the impression, I am an extremely busy person with commitments I cannot postpone.

However, it is not in my power to close any active page of this site. It will be up to Jack, our web-master, to keep the Shadows page up and running till the definitive version is concluded. I guess that, before the book is ready to be sent to a publisher (I hope we reach this stage), any text, even if posted after the deadline, MAY be inserted into the final version, provided it fits its general outline and subject. We are writers and not bureaucrats. I do not think I would be able to refuse any SUITABLE material that might contribute to the final quality of our novel, regardless of the date it will be offered.

This reminds me that the male collaborators of this excellent forum have been largely topped excelled outbid surpassed surmounted (you choose the best word) by our female counterparts. I would not like to conclude that men are not so talented or dilligent as women and, therefore, ask the male writers to urgently do something in order not to let us, men, down ashamed blushing traumatized for ever... Both sexes are equal in talent and creativity (are they not?).

Rhoda : your latest text is excellent. I know that Kirk is a Latin, a bit of a womanizer and — what a coincidence! — is staying on the top floor of the hotel (12 and not fifteen floors, I suppose). He is going to stay in NYC yet another day after everybody is supposed to leave. But please do no kill him (or let someone do it for you). Maria Emília can become a very dangerous woman...


Jack Beslanwitch jack@forwriters.com http://www.webwitch.com/posi-web/ Sun Jul 25 03:56:27 PDT 1999

Americo: I will try to have a bit more to add before your extended deadline. I will be truly interested in what the final edited version comes out looking like. I also look forward to hearing about your experiences in Brazil. I hope to have some journalistic gems and interesting pictures to be be able to send everyone's way when Fran and I make our trip to Australia.


Michele michele@sassoonery.demon.co.uk http://www.sassoonery.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 25 00:11:35 PDT 1999

Hi

No, I haven't lost the plot, if you are wondering why I've put my email address in the web address box above. I am moving my web site today (Sunday) from Geocities to Demon and as of Monday (evening, GMT) there will be no more than a referring page at Geocities for a time, and then I will delete that also (but not immediately obviously because it takes time for people to catch up !)

I mention this because I know Rhoda, at least, has visited my web site (and has a link to it also). So if you have visited in the past please update your bookmarks (and links where relevant) accordingly. Thanks.

Therefore the new URL for Counter-Attack
is:

http://www.sassoonery.demon.co.uk

from Monday July 26, 1999

Michele


Larry Edwardts ltouzet@gs.verio.com Sat Jul 24 21:27:51 PDT 1999

AMERICO!
I'm normally not offended by the term "ìdìot". Your quote was approprite but somewhat slanted by my own ignorance of your intention. Since I told the tale, I can only assume you meant me. Since cybernetic voice can sometime mislead, I can only hope you meant your words in an informative or consoling tone and NOT a derogatory way. If I have offended you, in any way, I am truly sorry.
Even by the insulating nature of this medium, I am hesitant to write my thoughts and communicate with people of such intelligent caliber. I guess this ìdìot shoule be quiet and only wish he were of such stature.
-¿-
-
I am too late to contribute to the fine offering of Shadows. I would not insult your work with a late entry. I do wish everyone well on this wonderful work.


Sat Jul 24 17:06:02 PDT 1999


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Sat Jul 24 17:05:58 PDT 1999

I have just published my closing addition to "Shadows in a Dream".

Our book already has an ending.

As I said some time ago, late collaborators can still post until the 28th (Wednesday).

We did it!


Avatar firewings79@hotmail.com Sat Jul 24 13:01:23 PDT 1999

Okay people, here we go!

EPILOGUE

Extracted from a journal of sorts

It was the end. We were, at last, finished here.

This last chapter in our lives was closed now, a new page turning toward another day. Another time. Another chapter.
The one dedicated to this hotel would forever remain in our hearts and minds and thoughts as we went about our petty business in the 'real world'.

One couldn't help but look back at all that we had accomplished here-the forming of friends, the sharing of minds, and the time spent with the dreamless shadows of our former selves as we bid a fond farewell to that life and a joyous welcome to the new one.

The goodbyes had been painful but brief. Promises to return soon to the Notebook were drowned out by the noisy snorts of the few who could not control themselves. Jack stood up to bid an official farewell to many of our number. The eyes of all filled with unshed tears as he concluded. It was a very emotional time.

Soulmates gazed into each other's eyes and wished each other the best. Many clung to the other in the hopes that the goodbyes would end and their company would never leave. Sad to bid them wrong, 'tis true.

Even in my own soul, had I turned a page. The pen had been sealed at long last over my own insecurities and deceptive treatment of myself. I was a writer. There could be no other fate.
What of my fantasies, you ask? They too have resolved, one way or another....some slightly unusual. But then, what is usual here?


The Chelsea Hotel now stands, a grim and silent tribute to our departure. A few remain, trapped in the realm of work, cleaning up the debris of our work here. An hour in the dining room, chattering away, become the filth of dirty cups and plates. A night in the silent dorms of our resting places become a litter of crumpled papers and half-eaten food. One could never tell what truly remained from one's life after the fond farewells.

Alas, to the goodbye, sweet Shadows. I see you lurking in there, hidden among our last resting places. Not daring to come out and take your rightful place in our lives. What, fear you much has changed?

It has, you see. You would not wish to be spun about in the whirlwind of our beings again. I see you hesitating. You fear, yes? Fear to be exposed again. The crumbling facades of your existance would be gone forever, would they not?
Shattered by the eyes of truth.

Do not fear so, my friends. The end will come swiftly. On wings of the softest down will it come and carry you far from here. To, maybe, another shadowed realm where you may live and tread through the waters of our lives in peace.

As you see me leaving, I know something catches your eye. An accidental trinket, perhaps? And yet, as you look closer, you realize it is a note to someone. Yourself?

You pull it off the main door, tape slipping through your ghostly fingers as you watch the last of us leave. What is it? you wonder. Opening it you read it, and become glad in you hearts.

Reality and illusion is a merging of two entities....
....in the shadows of the dreams of a writer

Do you look up hesitantly, to find hope looking at you? Do you clutch the note like a precious gift, the key to a new home?

I am glad then, my friends. Glad that, even though our ways may vary, we will come upon the other again someday. May you truly be happy, and find peace in you wanderings.

Finite.

***

And then afterward Americo's poem.

;)

Later all
-Avatar


Avatar firewings79@hotmail.com Sat Jul 24 12:07:47 PDT 1999

Do not despair, oh denizens of Shadows.
The epilogue has arrived!
(subject to consideration from the editor's department first of course)

This is my evil little brain plotting. First I will post latest additions to Shadows, then I will post this in the Notebook later this hour to spur on those who lag behind. Then(somehow) it will get into our great project at the end so Americo can go and rip it apart.

Comprende?

;)

-Avatar


Martin Sat Jul 24 01:37:55 PDT 1999

Rhoda

Sí quieres podemas comunicar en español.

Antes de que me olvide, por lo menos sabes dos hombres que hablan francées.


Ho translado la poesía en castalliano moderno

Shadows in dreams
No quiero estar sin ti
Si tú no estas aqui me sobra el aire
No quiero estar así

Si tú no estas aquí no se
Que diablos hago amándote
Si tú no estas aquí sabrás
Que dios no va a entender por que te vas

No quiero estar sin ti
Si tú no estas aquí ma falta el sueño
No quiero andar así
Latiendo un corazón de amor sin dueño

Si tú no estas aquí no se
Que diablos hago amándote
Si tú no estas aquí sabrás
Que dios no va a entender por que te vas

Derramare mis sueños si algún día no te tengo
Lo más grande se hará lo más pequeño
Pasear en un cielo sin estrellas esta vez
Tratando de entender quien hizo
Un infierno el paraiso

No te vayas nunca porque

No puedo estar sin ti
Si tú ne estas aquí me quema el aire

Martin


Arik to all Nesis@actcom.co.il Http://www.angelfire.com/sk/TironZ Sat Jul 24 00:30:41 PDT 1999

Hello to all of you, how are you? why are you chatting here about the book you are writing? maybe you need another chat for that? it just strange to read it for people that dont know what is the book about (forchenetly I am one of them ;-)

hope to hear from you again: Arik Nesis


Rhoda rfort@ren.net Fri Jul 23 22:42:05 PDT 1999

I put another posting into Shadows. I would also like to do a little more, but like others here I have a busy week-end again. Could I also respectfully request an extension of the deadline?

Allein,

I hope this isn't totally sequential. I haven't got to the day of the tea party and all the other stuff yet. I am still a day behind on all the action.

Rhoda


Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Fri Jul 23 22:21:19 PDT 1999

I found a poem in French that I thought could go in Shadows, but I don't know if you'll like it.

Au clair de la lune By the light of the moon
Mon ami My friend
Prête moi ta plume Lend me thy pen
Pour écrire un mot; To write a word
Ma chandelle est morte My candle is out
Je n'ai plus de feu I've no more fire
Ouvre moi ta porte Open your door to me
Pour l'amour de Dieu For the love of God

I do not know who wrote this and the book it's listed in appearently doesn't know either.
Tell me what you think,
Allein


Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Fri Jul 23 20:15:13 PDT 1999

There's a three in the morning now?

I posted a little in Shadows - but not too much.

Sqrl - It's nice to know that Cassandra's okay. Tell her 'hi' and give her a hug from me - I've sent her some e-mails but records show that she hasn't read them.

(((BIG HUGS))) to all
Allein


Sqrl Sqrlmunk55@aol.com Fri Jul 23 19:23:14 PDT 1999

Shadow's people!
I have posted what is my "final post" I still have to finish my epilogue.
I know I WON'T have the time to add any more, so Im getting it done tonight. The rest will be up in the next hour!
Sqrl


Sqrl Sqrlmunk55@aol.com Fri Jul 23 19:20:38 PDT 1999

Shadow's people!
I have posted what is my "final post" I still have to finish my epilogue.
I know I WON'T have the time to add any more, so Im getting it done tonight. The rest will be up in the next hour!
Sqrl


Sqrl Sqrlmunk55@aol.com Fri Jul 23 19:06:37 PDT 1999

"Does anyone know where Cassandra has gone?
Has she gone to heaven now?"

Don't worry. I know she'll be flattered that you all miss her. She's been busy with work and all. NO she hasn't gone to heaven, she's having WAY to much fun with those guys whom came from hell . . o . . . I mean work *blush* ::grin::

"Why does creativity always strike at three o'clock in the morning?"

Better yet, Why does creativity strike when I'm in the bathroom?

and thanks Allein! They have my work! :-)


Martin Fri Jul 23 17:15:30 PDT 1999

Why does creativity always strike at three o'clock in the morning?

Martin


Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Fri Jul 23 16:51:13 PDT 1999

Where is the Novel now - is it still at the Tea Party. If so, I think we should have an extension, because I know I will be too busy to add anything until Sunday at the earliest. And there's a part I want to add.
Allein


Rhoda rfort@ren.net Fri Jul 23 16:18:50 PDT 1999

Americo,

You intrigue me with your information about Iberian literature. Perhaps I can expand my horizens and learn more. One of my projects this week-end will be to translate this beautiful poem you have shared. How do I know it is beautiful? Not because you tell me, but I read it over the best I could and grasped the meter and the rhyme even though I haven't yet the foggiest idea of what it says. My father on his latest visit to my house brought me two Spanish language courses. I have been wanting to learn Spanish for years. It would really freak out my Hispanic friends who talk this language constantly around me to realize that I might actually understand them. I have for years envied bilingual people. I gave my best educational years to Latin and French. How I wish I would have known that I'd live my life among people fluent in Spanish. No one I know speaks French.

I have a busy week-end ahead of me.

Happy Writing, everyone!

Rhoda


Martin Fri Jul 23 14:36:52 PDT 1999

Does anyone know where Cassandra has gone?

Has she gone to heaven now?

KB8UKS

Watch tonight as the Braves beat the Phillis and I am sure you will feel better instantly.


Strangest case of suicide in Switzerland ever

Scarcely you have fancied to have seen and heared it all, something always happens to prove you wrong. Members of his family have anounced today that their son died of the strangest case of suicide that ever occured in Switzerland - if not in the world. Since his friend C. R. has promised to invite him last week to a feast of the out of this world kind and, after she postponed this invitation for one day, never turned it from theory into practice, he refused to eat until death reached out for him and unavoidable got a grip on him to never let go again of which he succeeded yesterday on the 22nd of July at 11: 30 in the morning.
With this anouncement the members of the family would like to express their deep sorrow.

Martin


Fri Jul 23 13:41:53 PDT 1999


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Fri Jul 23 12:16:46 PDT 1999

For centuries, Iberian poetry was written in Portuguese-Galician (the same language in the middle-ages and almost the same even now). I quote: "The lyrical prestige of the Portuguese-Galician language was such that the Castilian poets, until the XVth century, preferred this language to express their feelings. Even Alfonso X, the Sage, the true creator of Castilian prose, wrote in that language his "Cantigas en loor de Santa Maria."
(Eloísa Alvarez and Antonio Lourenço, "History of Spanish Literature".)

It would be interesting if "Shadows in a Dream", a creation of international writers, should end with a beautiful poem in that language of poets. The selected poem, in medieval Galician-Portuguse, is transcribed below and will be the most delicious item of your breakfast menu in the foggy morning of our sad farewell from the exciting reunion at the Chelsea Hotel. For publishing reasons, the poem must be translated into English. There is nothing I can do to surmount this demand of the American book market.

Use your dictionaries, your translators and, above all, your genius for words. The best translation will be selected to finish our novel. Anyone with some knowledge of "Spanish" (Castilian) should be able of at least having an idea of its contents, provided he/she has intuition for words and their rhythm.

There is no nationalism involved here. Just love for the beauty of words and their seduction power. "Shadows in a Dream" has already past the test of hypothesis and will become a novel soon.

I am glad to inform you that I managed to rearrange my schedule and, though the oficial deadline is still the 25th July, additions published in the round robin until the 28th, Wednesday midnight, PDT time, will be considered. The reason for this postponing is due to the fact that, thanks to Apollo, the god of the Arts, I was today unexpectedly liberated from some work which would prevent me from even switching on the computer for some days (knock on wood though, I am still under the threat of a telephone call "in case of need" — their words). And the big reason for all this rush is that on Monday, the 2nd August, I will travel to Brazil, where your texts will be transformed into "mince pie", a Jonsonian way of saying that they will be edited and made into a book.

Sorry for the anxiety I may have caused to some of the most consciencious collaborators of this project. My own anxiety has not been lesser.


Here is the poem:

CANTIGA, PARTINDO-SE

Senhora, partem tam tristes
meus olhos por vós, meu bem,
que nunca tam tristes vistes
outros nenhuns por ninguém.

Tam tristes, tam saudosos,
tam doentes da partida,
tam cansados, tam chorosos,
da morte mais desejosos
cem mil vezes que da vida.
Partem tam tristes os tristes,
tam fora d'esperar bem,
que nunca tam tristes vistes
outros nenhuns por ninguém.

(João Roiz de Castelo-Branco)


Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Fri Jul 23 08:45:30 PDT 1999

Sqrl - I never deleted the e-mail that you sent w/ your Shadows additions on it, so, I might have the missing part - if it is missing.

Allein


Rachel Fri Jul 23 08:23:35 PDT 1999

Hi all
Sqrl - Don't worry, nothing is missing. It was just a little glitch with Americo's computer.
Arik - Hi you

Take care all
Rachel


Sqrl Sqrlmunk55@aol.com Fri Jul 23 08:15:29 PDT 1999

ut oh! Did someone say some of my work is missing?! ::ears perk up:: 'Casue if they are . . . I don't know if I have a copy. My computer hasn't been letting me save things lately. PLEASE let me know if this is trure.

Sqrl


Arik to all Nesis@actcom.co.il Http://www.angelfire.com/sk/TironZ Fri Jul 23 06:11:41 PDT 1999

Hello all, it is good to come back ;-) what is the chat baout? get me in things :-) someone looked at my short story? what did you think? how are you all? I wonder where the "Dark Side" went and other questions...

have fun, hope to hear from you all soon: Arik


Michele michele@sassoonery.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 23 04:59:49 PDT 1999

Jack

Ever weirder ! The background to the Notebook is back to pale parchment yellow again...

Michele


Michele michele@sassoonery.demon.co.uk Fri Jul 23 00:12:18 PDT 1999

Diana

Congratulations ! As a 30 year old about to begin the second year of a BA (Hons) in English Studies and History, and with friends who are even maturer students than I, I say go for it ! grins

(Most of my friends have done as well as I on their exams - lots of As and Bs...)

As far as I am concerned it's never too late to teach a dog new tricks. :-)

Michele

PS Jack Why is the Notebook now a pale yellow ?


Diana Thu Jul 22 21:11:23 PDT 1999

Hello everybody! I haven't had much time to post as of late. The horses call me (quite loudly)to the barn. It's show season and very hectic here. I've been reading everyones posts, and wish you ALL the best in your completion of Shadows. I wish I had found this site much earlier, as I would have liked to see its growth from the early stages. Alas, I seem to be late for everything.
I have some good news to share! I'm going back to school. This may not be a big deal to you, but it is something I've wanted to do for a very long time but had so many obstacles to manuever around in the past. Finally, at 32 yrs old(young?) I am going to college to study for my B.A in Writing and Literature. I received my letter of acceptance today!!!!! Happpyyyyy!!! (understatement!!)

T.O.M. I am intrigued by your messages. They definately cause one to pause momentarily and roll them through the mind, as one would roll a tasty candy over the toungue. I also am curious as to who you are, but enjoy allowing my imagination free rein on this subject. After all , is it not imagination that keeps us writers going?

Larry
My sincere condolences to you, your wife and family. It sounds as if your wife has a tough row to hoe. She must be a very remarkable and brave woman to have carried such a secret. My thoughts are with you.

To All
I will try to be more attentive here,if you will have me. We are slowly winding towards the end of horse show season and I will be able to spend more time at the keyboard, instead of at the shovel and in the saddle. I'm going to buy an enormous, decadently luxurious pillow to sit on while I write !!! Whinnies, nickers and kisses... Diana.


Weston wcbye@centuryinter.net Thu Jul 22 16:54:54 PDT 1999


I give consideration to becoming a Luddite on a regular basis. In my line of work, I regularly deal with automotive engineers. The control jobs they ask me to do range from silly to impossible. In many cases they want a computer to do a job that could easily be done with cranks or levers. To be honest, most of the stuff I do is required to make sure that the human does his job properly. And for what? Today's automobiles have reached a plateau of technology. Internal combustion, tires, brakes, all the same basic design from over fifty years ago. Technological advances have only refined those same old systems. Automobile advertising now touts electronic gegaws and cupholders. Yes, some of the systems I have been paid to design were to make sure that an assortment of cupholders were installed properly. Cupholders? Is this how the auto manufacturers add value to a car? Bah!

Howard - I presume that the dark ages of your youth were not too far removed in time from mine. Yes indeed, times were slower and less hectic when we had fewer "labor saving" conveniences. We had fewer entertainment options, too. Television had a maximum of 12 (mostly unoccupied)channels. Now we have up to 150 channels, but I think that they took what little intellegent information that came over the original 12 channels and spread it (thinly) over the 150. Then they gave us the VCR to record the foolishness that we don't have time to watch.

But I don't think I want to go back farther than that. I had a taste of a lot of old things. I was happy to stop cutting and burning wood when arthritis came along. How many of you had experiences with this stuff? How many still do:
Kerosene Lantern, wood heat, outhouse, hand crank telephone, wringer washing machine, hand crank starter on car, canning fruit and vegetables. I tire from listing these things, I am sure there are more. The point is that these old activities and devices required time and effort, but we have replaced them with other things that have saved effort but used up more time and possibly emotional energy.

Become a Luddite? Perhaps, in moderation, for without the computer, I would be a slower writer.

Wes


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Thu Jul 22 15:52:16 PDT 1999

Okay, everything's all right now. Part 3 of "Shadows in a Dream" and all its contents has reached Portugal (at least to my Mac 2 — it was definitely absent from Mac 1) and the world can breathe again.

Sorry, Jack. False alarm.
And the lesson is: before you hang yourself or strangle somebody have a second look at the workshop — maybe you change your mind.

Howard: we all know about your problems this year, and regretted them in due time, as the good family we are proud to be. You are not less of a real writer because you could not give us as much as you certainly wished. You still have some time to grace us with yout talent, if you like.

A new computer is always a source of big trouble. I know that by painful experience. Everything becomes fine two or three years later— when we decide to buy a more sophisticated one. My best computer was an Amstrad PCW. It was only good to write. I wrote a big thesis on it, with thousands of footnotes and all that, and a novel that I still like very much ("The Death of the Wales".) After that I fell in love with the Mac and bought 5 (five) of them. A lovely system, but my literary production decreased dramatically. The best computer is still the old typewriter!

Rhoda: I've just downloaded your addition. I was really missing your prose.

Larry E. — strange story you told us. But that's what life is: "a tale told by an idiot signifying nothing." I wished I had created this sentence. But no, it was old William. A hug to you, if that tells you anything.


Martin Thu Jul 22 13:10:15 PDT 1999


Hey guys

Do you have the by the way blues yet?

Martin


Rachel danolson@sprint.ca Thu Jul 22 10:54:14 PDT 1999

Rhoda! - I love it!
Take care you
Rachel


Rachel danolson@sprint.ca Thu Jul 22 10:43:20 PDT 1999

Americo - Hey you
I just went in and took a look at slate#3 and all seemed to be in order when I looked.
I didn't find any missing posts and checked it over from top to bottom, and bottom to top and all looked good and well.
I think that your sever is just messing with your mind or something like that (grins).

Rhoda - I just left Shadows, I must have just missed your addition, well now I will need to dart back in and read it! I am so excited that everyone is back and working on Shadows!

Thanks to all of you who are putting so much time and effort into meeting the deadline!

Take care all
Rachel

PS - I looked over this post and know what? I really have to stop using the word "just" so much!


Rhoda rfort@ren.net Thu Jul 22 10:39:10 PDT 1999

Rachel and Americo,

I posted my addition to Shadows. There will be more. I stayed up all night reading the previous posts and trying to figure out what I will wright.

Howard,

I love writing about the Dark Ages, but I don't think I want to live in them. I'll visit only if there is a round trip ticket.

Martin,

I answered your last e-mail, but I got the e-mail back. Did you get the e-mail where I explained my thoughts on Darwin?

Got to go!

Rhoda


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Thu Jul 22 10:30:16 PDT 1999

Sorry, Jack.

I realize now that the additions after the 26th May until yesterday (just before your speech) are missing on slate 3. If that's what you were referring to in your message of July 21, 18H03, yes, please post them again where they belong. I hope no one has ran away them! The missing additions include a lot of work my me, Rachel, Avatar, Sqrl, maybe others.

I repeat — Missing additions on slate 3: from the 26th May till the 21st July!

Rachel: please take care of this little problem, will you. I am flooded with work and my Mac does not communicate wth Jack's PC.

Sorry if there is here something I did not understand. But that is what I get, in terms or archives, on this side of the Atlantic.


Rachel danolson@sprint.ca Thu Jul 22 06:25:17 PDT 1999

Larry - I do not get bored easily, least of all when I am reading a good story. I have just been a little busy the past few days, but I am still reading (grins - just v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y).
I now have 2 pages of notes on chapter 2 "You will beg me to stop reading before we are done!"
Larry, I am sorry to hear about your family distress. Your wife does indeed sound like a strong and brave woman and she is lucky to have such a supportive man at her side. I hope that things will work out as best they can.
Take care you
Rachel


Larry Edwardts ltouzet@gs.verio.com Wed Jul 21 21:19:16 PDT 1999

Hello Everyone.

I have hesitated writing on the notebook. Too many emotions have been flooding through me. I do not submit friends, even cybernetic friends to the ravings of a manic drepressive.

But what are fiends for? (cliche morphed into pun intended)

My wife's mother died last monday. What makes this interesting is the story before her death. A little over twenty years ago, my wife obtained a birth certificate. She had just reached 21 and wanted a full copy. The record stated her mother was only 24 and her father was unknown. My wife thought her mother was 45 and her father was a loving kind man that had raised her for 19 years. Then the math added up. Her sister would have been 24 at her birth. Then my wife found out her pseudo-mother has a hysterectomy 8 years before my wife's birth. Botton line: her sister was her mother.

This is a very large family of 13 brothers and sisters. Her whole perception of family was a sham. Too make things worse, her biological mother refused to claim her daughter. Out of some brave and gentle part of my wife's soul, she kept the family secret. My wife is now confronting her family and trying to find closure. She has too half-siblings that now must be told.

Being a writer, I see a potential book in this. At least a lifetime movie or a spot on Montel Williams.

Rachel...

Thank you again. Have gotten bored yet?


howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Wed Jul 21 19:32:09 PDT 1999

All -- The three dots are (is?) known as an elipsis -- you could look it up, but not before you had the word. It is indeed to give a "thought continued" feeling...
Americo - I'm truly sorry I had not the time to contribute to "Shadows," but it's been a very busy year. I realize that's not an excuse for a real writer to use, so perhaps I'm not that.
Martin -- I've lost all my saved mail, and I did want to spend some time with the last two you sent me. Do you still have them? I'm beginning to form an intense dislike for computers in general, and mine in particular! The new ones are no better -- they just do the same evil faster!
Not that I'm a Luddite -- heaven forfend! But I can't help thinking how much more relaxed we were back in the dark ages when I was growing up. I think I want to go back!
Perhaps there's a story there that we forgot to bring with us. I think I'll take a peek. Rhoda, Wes -- want to come along?
howard


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Wed Jul 21 19:20:27 PDT 1999

Jack: your speech is so well written that it would be a pity if we put any of our previous texts after it. They are well where they are. Now, after this beautiful piece of writing by our dear webmaster, we, collaborators, must try harder and write as well as our master. Follow the leader, people. We have a book!

As far as your kind ofer of an editing page is concerned, we'd better wait for the appropriate moment. What will go there will have to be as perfect as possible : without errors, misspelings or bad punctuation — just beautiful prose. That will take some time yet.

Thank you, Jack.


The Old Man Wed Jul 21 19:19:17 PDT 1999

Greetings and felicitations,

The speculation regarding my 'real' identity is intriguing. Is it necessary to know my real name while surrounded by aliases? Would it lend credence to my words to tell you more about myself? If so, simply ask.

I am happy to be in your presence. It fills my heart to have found intelligent personalities in this mostly brainless world wide web.

Please let me know how I can enter your sphere. What would you like to know, I hide nothing.

T.O.M.


Jack Beslanwitch Wed Jul 21 18:03:27 PDT 1999

p.s. Americo and Rachel: If you want, I will copy your addtiion at the end to the new part of Shadows. While I do it I will add some HTML editing to create spaces and indentations if you like. Let me know.


Jack Beslanwitch jack@forwriters.com Wed Jul 21 18:01:07 PDT 1999

Rachel: No problem. You gave me a boost to get my speech done. I am not sure how flawless it is, but it is now up and Shadows is archived so that new additions and loading the current page will be easier.


I also introduced Caitlin McCarthy, my fictitious assistant editor for a new science fiction line. Hopefully St. Mortin's Press is fictitious and there is no such real press. If somebody discovers one let me know and I will begin casting for a different name.


My sleeze bucket agent has not made an appearance yet, but expect him soon. Everyone, feel free to have fun with either one of these. They are open targets. Just remember that Caitlin is overweight, harried and a typical science fiction fan ala Orycon. She has a wry sense of humor and a compassionate streak that conflicts with the need for rejecting many many slush pile applicants.


Nathaniel Smith is a chain smoker (I know, cliche time) and has one goal in mind, all those readers fees he hopes to fleece out of all these friendly targets. Take care all.


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Wed Jul 21 17:36:16 PDT 1999

Hi, folks.

Just to tell you good night, sleep well and do not forget your conjugal duties just because of literature.
----------
I got a letter from the Prisioner of Albatross protesting that he is not Thomas. Jon, who is in Canada trying to find someone who owes him I do not how many beers, also wrote, swearing he is not disguising himself as Enock. Pussy suggested that T.O.M. could be one of the three Kawinkiedinks, but I told her to go piss somewhere else. Impala sent a telegram; I quote: "Me not Thomas...... " (six dots for us to think twice). What intrigues me in this avalanche of unexpected and unsolicited correspondence, in this sudden irruption of carrier-pidgeons invading the sacred soil of our notebook — is the question:

Who is Thomas?


Rachel danolson@sprint.ca Wed Jul 21 16:36:44 PDT 1999

Hi all

This is for Shadows People again so all others stop reading now, well unless you want to read this.

Okay - I just want to say that I do not want what I write to effect what any other person would have written for Shadows.
Ack! I waited and I waited for others to write things and then I just dove in. This does not mean that you have to follow my lead.
Do your own thing and it will all get pressed out in the edit, okay?
Take care all
Rachel

PS - Only a few days to go!!!!!!!! Write people! WRITE!!!!!!!


Jack Beslanwitch Wed Jul 21 16:20:54 PDT 1999

Just a comment, part of which I already passed to Rachel. My actions and the speech I will be giving will be somewhat different than what she has described. So, that will have to be worked out in the re-edit. This should be up and opening the next portion of Shadow. Hope the contradictions in content and style do not confuse too greatly.


Xavier hemidal@excite.com Wed Jul 21 14:44:45 PDT 1999

Hello, hello:

Well, it sure seems everyone is fired up on Shadows. I have no internet access from my house, so I have to come to the library. It's hours do not suit my schedule well, but I may be able to finish with some large posts.

Well, everyone seems all fired up. I am off to read the new additions now.

Xavier


Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Wed Jul 21 13:32:56 PDT 1999

Here I am to save the day!! I'm in a very happy mood today after being depressed the last few days. :) I will devote some time and energy to Shadows - Mali and Azol (my novel) can wait until after the 25th.

Jack - I pictured myself in a very sexy French maid costume, perhaps I could wear a Kimono and go as a Geisha for the masquarade the second day. I'll be adding a new part to it possibly tonight.

Well, gotta run,
Toodles
Allein

"When life throws you a lemon - throw it back as hard as you can and try to beam Life right between the eyes."


Martin Wed Jul 21 12:50:11 PDT 1999

LANCE ARMSTRONG

HE DID IT

YEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAH


Not only the american girls show good sportsmanship but the men too. Lance Armstrong is winning the Tour de France and all you care for is some places where not even the sun is reaching. What kind of a place might that be?

Turn around and speak out loudly the name of the guy who wins the Tour de France ‘99.

Wrong!

His name is Lance Armstrong and his nickname is the Cow-boy, because he is of this sound Texan bread.
I am not surprised that Lance Armstrong wins la grande boucle, with that kind of bicycle he is riding. It is of solid Illinois steel and is called by the name of Trek.

Star Trek; Road Trek. Let’s go trekking.

Yeah


By the way. What is the name of this years Tour de France winner?


Post scriptum or the by the way after the first by the way or the by the way that comes in second place, which is usually situated right after, or behind or next to the first place or the by the way that, if I would add one more by the way would come right in front of that by the way. For sports like Football you have cheerleaders. Why do I need to do all the cheering for the Tour de France? The Football season has not started yet!


Martin


Michele michele@sassoonery.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 21 12:26:41 PDT 1999

Rachel

Thanks.

All

Thomas has asked me to pass onto you the fact that he is not The Old Man in disguise, as someone recently speculated... Thomas has, in fact, deleted the address for the Notebook from his computer...

(Now don't anybody jump on me - I am just passing the message on...)

Someone wanted to know the other day, why some writers here use three dots at the end of a sentence/message. I generally use it to convey that there may be more to this than meets the eye - it's an invitation to think before you speak... !

Michele


Martin Wed Jul 21 10:53:12 PDT 1999

Shadows here; shadows there; shadows everywhere.
Dov’é il luce?

Martin


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Wed Jul 21 10:26:15 PDT 1999

Jack: yes, please open the 4th page for "Shadows". I have just read a text by Rachel (some 15 or 20 K, I guess) that will make things much easier for the other collaborators to create their own scene. The moment we have a good description of 1. karaoke scene; 2. ball mask ; 3. continental breakfast in a sad, grey morning — wilt thou be gone, it's not yet near day (ie. fareweel scene) — the book will be ready for a second phase, called the mince pie phase : where your texts will be transformed into mince pie, ie, edited — an the greates novel oin the Internet ever will be born. Then it will be the publication phase.

Paulo: greetings. Computer code is beautiful indeed! And sometimes even more creative than literature. I think Jú, who teaches English, would like this place. We are very active here, as you see. Ciao.
PS. Brazil on the 2nd, if TAP does not go on strike, as they tend to do whenever I want to go on holidays.


Rachel danolson@sprint.ca Wed Jul 21 07:30:47 PDT 1999

Hi all

Michele - Welcome back - congratulations on your grades!
Paulo - Did I welcome you yet? If not WELCOME!
Take care all
Rachel


Michele michele@sassoonery.demon.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/8608 Wed Jul 21 05:54:04 PDT 1999

Hi

Just thought that I'd drop by and say I got my second semester results today - I passed everything, got 4 B's and an A - and did better than expected in my English exams, which pleases me muchly ! grins I am a happy bunny as we say in the UK !

Michele


Paulo jpcarvalhal@mail.telepac.pt Wed Jul 21 05:43:42 PDT 1999

Americo:
Thank you for your message.
I'm amazed with the activity of this place!
Curiosity is the feeling I have,in what concerns the final result of everybody's work.
Your pace of writing is far bigger than my capacity to read. Has you say, I'm used to read/write that awkward computer code, but that also involves a great deal of "cyber-creativity"... well it's a different kind of beauty!

Good work.
Paulo


Shane Birthisel Shane_Birthisel@hotmail.com http://www.jenniferlopezonline.com/net_index.html Wed Jul 21 00:18:39 PDT 1999

I LOVE WRITING!!!


Tue Jul 20 21:51:38 PDT 1999

p.s.


Make that tonight or tomorrow and not tomorrow or tomorrow. Although that sounds kind of catchy in its own right ;-)


Jack Beslanwitch jack@forwriters.com Tue Jul 20 21:50:45 PDT 1999

Americo and other Shadow denizens: OK, I will do as Americo suggests and archive sometime tomorrow or tomorrow and start a fresh Shadows beginning with my speech and the introduction of both the assistant editor from the fiction St. Mortin's Press and its new SF line and a separate bit for the ever so sleazy Nathanial Smith who has just crashed the party and is trollin for suckers.


The speech will take precedence and get up first and I'll add the other two characters shortly thereafter. That way there will be no delay so others can begin adding their stuff to the mix.


Oh, and Allein, I may have missed something, but since you are doing the tea ceremony am I safe in picturing you in a kimono. I will defer to your wisdom in this regard. You are more than Japanese expert than I, but I suspect that we will be having a cultural fusion tea ceremony that is one part English high tea and Japanese. If I am off base on this, fire away in my direction.


Sqrl Sqrlmunk55@aol.com Tue Jul 20 18:38:10 PDT 1999

*ack* I just realized what an airhead I am! (darn blonde setting in again) everyone ignore the statement "By the way?" at the end of my post on "S" I have NO CLUE where this came from! I posted it with it and am clueless as to why it's there!

thanks
Sqrl


Sqrl Sqrlmunk55@aol.com Tue Jul 20 18:24:59 PDT 1999

Americo
"Sqrl: do not think in terms of quantity. You need as much as you can give, if you give it generously."

Don't worry I have ALOT to give. And Generositly is my middle name :-) I just have a tiny little problem . . . I'm not very patient when it's close to a deadline and I'm working with other people. I get very ancy, and sence I'll be away all day tomorrow, making it impossible for me to do anything on-line I NEED to get my part as complete as possible either today or Friday (I might me able to sneek a few mins in here and there on other days, other than that . . . I have NO time!) So all those people out there that said they wanted to work with me on this, PLEASE E-MAIL ME! MY TIME IS LIMITED!

thanks
Sqrl


Prisioner of Albatross Tue Jul 20 18:12:20 PDT 1999

I was reading this poems book "Lyrical Ballads", don't know if you know it, great stuff, believe me, a round robin by two guys, Wordsworth and Coleridge, I think it was some sort of secret, romantic society, enamoured by the lakes of that district in lovely England, so I was reading the book in my cell, but then I saw that Sqrl and Avatar had added something else to that shadows project, and I threw the ballads at a guards right foot, and killed him for breakfast, all this very quick, and strangled two other guys who were using the computer, and finally get to round robin and read it all. Boy, lovely girls you have in that notebook. Great writers! Could I participate as well? Who is the boss for me to ask authorization. I need no authorixation. I am the prisioner of Albatross.

Yes, but what can I write? Good question.

Forget about this message, people.


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Tue Jul 20 17:57:34 PDT 1999

Avatar : your defintion of your character is great. Just proceed in your own fashion, using your imagination and your madness in the most artistic way you can — and everything will be all right. Not everybone needs to write realistically. Our book will be great if it will be different. Voices are our characters; your voice is pretty, and it will be perfect when you reach its own truth. Not even you know where its truth dwells. Keep looking for it, love, and you'll find it, I'm sure. The best book is the one that looks for its reason of being; the best additions are those that reflect the secrets of their authors. Do not worry: one's secrets are never revealed.

Sqrl: do not think in terms of quantity. You need as much as you can give, if you give it generously.

Rachel: grins and grins and kisses.

Allein: I'd like to tell you that I have enjoyed your latest posts very much. We writers have to get used to bloody silence. But silence is sometimes a wonderful compliment. Good stuff you have written lately. Forget about the tea ceremony if you do not like it. Just be present and you'll be great. Well, say hallo! from time to time, and the Chelsea's doll will smile at you.

Oh, people: how much I love you, sometimes!


Sqrl Sqrlmunk55@aol.com Tue Jul 20 16:48:29 PDT 1999

Americo-
welcome. I have MORE to come. ::evil grin:: just editing it. :-) (and uh. . . how much more text do I need? I'm just curious.)

Avatar-
thanks for the clarification


Rachel danolson@sprint.ca Tue Jul 20 13:45:57 PDT 1999

Hi all

Avatar - Gezzz, I think you just made me blush (grins and laughter)
Now I will just say Thank you and you are welcome

Take care all
Rachel


Avatar firewings79@hotmail.com Tue Jul 20 12:32:26 PDT 1999

Thanks to Rachel and Americo for their encouraging words, both of your shadows' contributions are what give our book it's main course.
(you write more (and better) than me, I bet you both will get your additions done first) ;)

And no, I am not sucking up to you!
I mean it from the depths of my insincere heart!
;)

As for shared credit, yes Sqrl and I did plot the first post I made together. I just figured everyone would have gotten the hint by the time I posted that she and I were doing a segment together.
Apologies to my friend.

Americo- Also a most humble apology to you, oh wise editor of the Shadows project. I don't believe I remembered about that post. So, for the next (counting) three-four days I shall strive to desperately add more of my own main course to S'

And for any confusion....

My character is me (obviously). and since I am a new writer I portrayed her as a new writer who mixed fantasy with fact unconsciously. Half of what I wrote earlier was her thoughts and perceptions of the city mixed together. I will rectify this by:
A) writing the first few over
or..
B) just explaining in the last few

AND BELIEVE ME...

I did NOT plan this!


Can I write the epilogue?

Oh, what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practice to deceive
-William Shakespeare, actor, playwright

(I think I fooled myself this time. I think my subconscious was planning this all along)
;)

-Avatar


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Tue Jul 20 10:27:14 PDT 1999

Jack: "Shadows" has now 131K and has become too slow for people to comfortably add their texts. Why not open a 4th slate starting it with your own, already remarkable, speech?

People: do not forget the mask ball. Choose the dresses and the masks according to your favorite writers or literary characters. This is just a suggestion, of course.

And this is an appeal to Eddie and Lena: what is your opinion and your suggestions as to the editing of our book? How do you like what we have there? Is it worwhile editing it at all?If you are not alive anymore please knock three times on my bedside table at 4 a.m. Even you certainly know that the deadline is coming Sunday. A little help would be much appreciated. Rachel and I are just mere mortals, despite our divine looks.

The project is still very much alive. Sqrl has just published another of her beautiful texts. In the name of all of us, I thank you Sqrl.


Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Mon Jul 19 18:45:04 PDT 1999

Hi everyone.
Appearently I have a little reading to do in Shadows and then I will see about adding some more. :)
Bai bai,
Allein


Americo Mon Jul 19 18:03:30 PDT 1999

Some missprints in the post below. No wonder. I wrote with my feet (the subject was soccer) and with my heart (the subject was... what was the subject?


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Mon Jul 19 18:00:10 PDT 1999

Bravo to all shadowsers! Nothing like a deadline to wake up writers from their chronic procrastinating. (You owe me two beers).

I read the latest texts in "S" (including mine...) and was fascinated. We are really within the heart of the matter, colleagues. Just a little more push and WE SHALL HAVE A BOOK!!! Five days is a long time. Even Biblical God created a little in such a time (I am a pagan, right? The first ammendment... is it the first ... there must be an ammendment somewhere... what was I saying?)

Ah.

On the importance of women. I do not know about the Bible, but American women are certainly much better than American men. At least in soccer. You may not not because you are ignorant intellectuals. But The American Feminine Soccer team has just one the WORLD SOCCER CUP! If you, hombres, think that is easy ask the Brazilians, the Argentinians, the Chinese... A great feat in your History. And IT WAS THE SECOND TIME in 8 years! Long live the American women!!!


The Old Man Mon Jul 19 17:35:12 PDT 1999

Greetings and felicitations,

Knowing human nature is a thing learned of experience. Many years of watching and predicting what people will do are where my opinion is based.

Adam did not eat of the fruit until Eve arrived. It is my opinion that Eve would not have touched it had Adam not been around.
Think of gangs. Within a gang are many singular personalities who would probably not do those things associated with gangs if they were alone and never exposed to each other. It is when these personalities come together in boredom and ignorance that a NEW personality emerges. It is not the personality of any of the members, it is the 'Gang Personality'.
Adam and Eve were much the same, simple and innocent on their own, daring and sinful together. A personality emerged from the meeting, one that allowed for un-allowed behaviour.

This is the way I see this situation. Perhaps later I will tell you who I believe Adam and Eve to REALLY be.

T.O.M.


Rachel danolson@sprint..ca Mon Jul 19 16:52:12 PDT 1999

Hi all

Hi Sqrl - Sorry about that. This is great! More and more people are coming back into Shadows.

Take care all
Rachel


Sqrl Sqrlmunk55@aol.com Mon Jul 19 16:18:14 PDT 1999

HELLO! ELEVATOR SCENE WAS A JOINT EFFORT! okay now that I have that out of my system. back to work on Shadows.
Sqrl


howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Mon Jul 19 16:07:48 PDT 1999

Rhoda and Wes -- That's why I asked the question. I have yet to hear anyone justify the "woman created for man's use" statement. As for Eve being entirely to blame for the fall of mankind? Balderdash! God asked Adam where he'd been (as if He didn't know) then He asked if Adam had eaten of the fruit. Adam tried to blame it on Eve, but God would have none of that. He held them both EQUALLY accountable.
Later on He would lay the blame for sin and death squarely on Adam's shoulders. And the remedy on Christ's.
Yes, civilization then as now was sexist and perverse. But if you read the teachings of Jesus you'll find equality there. The sexism is an invention of those who would interpret it that way for their own agendas.
If anyone is interested in who He is, I have an extra copy of "The Jesus Film" that I'd be more than happy to send you. All you have to do is promise to watch it and then send it on to anyone else in the group who would like to see it.
Send me an email if you'd like it.
cheers,
howard


Jack Beslanwitch jack@forwriters.com Mon Jul 19 12:01:00 PDT 1999

On the subject of Shadow, I have my speech or whatever partly decided upon and given that we are already in the midst of the tea ceremony, I will have to get rushing. However, wanted to indicate that I am adding one additional character that people can have fun with if they will, an assistant editor for science fiction at a publishing house that is trying to establish a new line. She is from Portland, Orygon. An frustrated writer herself. Around two hundred and sixty pounds. Dark brown hair. Harried, underpaid and stressed. She is hoping to find some gems in the rough by crashing our get together, i.e., new discoveries she does not have to pay a lot but will put her in good light with her boss.


She might be fun. Or maybe I will make the assistant editor a man. Same characteristics. I will think about it. Oh, and I might add an "agent" who charges exorbidant reader fees (aka bottom feeder) and is obnoxious to the mix as well. Still thinking and writing. Should have something up later this afternoon or tonight.


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Mon Jul 19 10:46:45 PDT 1999

Oh, my Apollo! Me complaining bitterly, whining like Jon when Pussy goes shopping with his credit card, and suddenly, almost overnight, the third slate of "Shadows" unexpectedly gets 128K of beautiful text. Jack, do you think a 4th slate would be abusing of your generosity? You see, we still have 5 days to the deadline and collaborators are getting really creative! It would be wonderful if we proved were are true writers, capable of complying to the rules and the deadlines of awful editors and publishers. In a word : a 4th slate, Jack? You decide, I thank.

The religious thread is quite interesting. I'm following with the utmost attention. As a pagan (Apollo's priest) I expect everyone to respect my pagan beliefs as well. Jon is also pagan. So we are already two in the Western World.


Rachel danolson@sprint.ca Mon Jul 19 09:38:16 PDT 1999

Hi all

Larry - I have found some time this afternoon and will get to read some more of your story (great big smile) I can't wait!

Pnokio - Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday. Things are crazy over here. I will tell you all about it later.

Americo - Hi (great big grin)

Shadows people - If you look in the workbook you will find that Jack, Avatar, Americo and myself have made additions to Shadows in the past week or so.
I hope to soon see additions by more of you!
The deadline in creeping up on us. Only six days to go!

Take care all
Rachel


Weston wcbye@centuryinter.net Mon Jul 19 09:25:20 PDT 1999


Howard:

"Women placed here for the use of man?" Nope. Here is as close at the Bible comes:

Adam and Eve were cursed for their disobedience:
...to the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shall bring forth childern; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Genesis 3:16

Well, there it is. Some may not want to hear it.

However, others may not like the following:

Husbands love your wives even as Christ loved the church, and gave himself for it. Ephesians 5:25

If we read the contexts (several verses before and after the cited verse) of both these verses, we see that the husband is expected to work (hard, sometimes) and support the wife and in the second example, the husband is to be prepared to give everything, including his very life, for the wife. We cannot pick and choose our verses. Believe it all or believe none of it. Men who would dominate women will eventually be called to account.

Sorry for dragging the writer's website so deep into the realm of religeous discussion.

Wes


Rhoda rfort@ren.net Mon Jul 19 09:12:36 PDT 1999

Howard,

I can't help you with your question. I've read the Bible through at least three times. I've read Revelation more times than I can count and even took some studies of it, and I can honestly say that the passage where women serve men completely escapes me. Seems to me I also remember a lot more women in Jesus's sphere than just Mary Magdalene. I remember the Samartian woman at the well. No Jew talked to Samaritans in those days, and men did not commonly approach women they did not know in conversation. Yet Jesus asked her for a drink of water and talked to her about some very personal issues. Then there was the woman with the bleeding for 12 years who had spent all of her living on doctors. She touched the hem of his garment and was healed. Jesus acknowledged it publicly. Much is written about Mary and Martha of Bethany. Their brother Lazerus was a very close friend of Jesus. I also remember the prostitute caught in adultery. "Who that is without sin, cast the first stone." None of the accusers could. They left her there alone with Jesus. His last words to her were "Where are your accusers now? Go and sin no more." Mary of Bethany anointed him with precious oil shortly before he was to die. It was very costly and was probably part of her dowry. When one of his disciples complained because of the great price of the ointment, Jesus said, "...She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to burying. Wheresoever this gospel is preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her." This was the same Mary who sat at Jesus's feet and listened intently to his teaching while Martha was in the kitchen preparing the meal. Jesus also raised Jairus's daughter from the dead.

Someone here wrote that they didn't think that Jesus had actually died. Well he did. After severe beating and six hours on the cross, he was indeed dead. Just to make sure a Roman soldier walked by and pieced his side with a spear. His friends were given his body, and made all the traditional preparation on it and laid it in the tomb and sealed it with a large boulder. The kicker is that after they left, he as made alive and rose again as he said would happen. The Romans and Jewish leaders of the day, remembering he had said this and fearing that his disciples would take his body away to make it seem he was resurrected, posted a guard around the tomb, but to no avail. Jesus came alive again and would never ever again die. This very fact is the crux of the whole Christian faith. There were eye-witnesses, and all of the rest of us that follow Jesus believe the testimony of these eye-witnesses. The first person who actually saw Jesus after his resurrection was Mary Magdelene who was no longer a prostitute and who never would be again. She was indeed free and went through the rest of her life to serve God.

I know I shouldn't hit this subject and I have tried real hard to hold back, but I have heard these half-truths all of my life. I just cannot stand back and see them unresponded to. People can believe the Biblical account or not believe it. That is their choice, but in the interest of honestly, they should not misrepresent it and make claims about it based on heresay. There are many people who study the Bible as literature. Aside from its spiritual claims, the Bible is probably the most influential books of the Western World and is part of our cultural heritage. The Bible is also a historical source. There is only a handful of ancient literature that was around in the days of the Babylonians and before. The Bible mentioned a people known as Hittites who were not known by any other surviving source until archaeologists unearthed their civilization early in the twentieth century. If someone had written something wrong about the plot of THE ILLIAD, JANE ERYE, or WAR AND PEACE and I knew better, I would have responded also.

Rhoda


howard htuckey@stny.rr.com Mon Jul 19 07:26:15 PDT 1999

Hi !
You caught my interest here -- could someone please cite chapter and verse for the "Women are placed here for the use of man?" I've never seen that, and I wonder if anyone else has, or if it's a case of "someone-told-me-what-I-wanted-to-hear-and-I-believed-it"
howard


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Mon Jul 19 06:00:43 PDT 1999

Good morning, everybody!

A new day. Hope it will be a good one for all of you.

I have just published what may very well be my last addition to "Shadows". That was the outcome of my feverish late night work yesterday and it may have an error or two. But it is, I believe, an important piece for those who have not understood yet what's this shadows thing about. May it give inspiration to your own additions.


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Sun Jul 18 19:26:25 PDT 1999

Jack: I will not count the words! I would just like to see a bit of coherence in the additions of all the collaborators. I am glad with the quantity but not so happy about the contents and (I confess) a bit angry with the lazybones. I intend to add yet another text, perhaps tomorrow. Then I will shut up. (My ending bits will be provided when I edit the whole book).

People: hurry up! Sometimes writers have to suffer a lot. Deadlines are part of our jobs.It's three o'clock a.m. and I have been working for "Shadows". Follow the example.

And kisses all around.


Jack Beslanwitch jack@forwriters.com Sun Jul 18 18:53:38 PDT 1999

Americo: OK, I had not read the ground rules as closely as I should have. So far I have 1300 words added to Shadows. I will endeavor to add an additional 4700 words at least to spice things along. We will have to see how it progresses. Take care. Seven days and counting basically.


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Sun Jul 18 06:28:07 PDT 1999

Paulo : congratulations (extensive to Jú) for your marriage bithday. Do you still know how to read? Or is it just computer code and that horrible stuff you deal with? I enjoyed the book you offered me about reincarnation and all that. In fact I was a monk in the middle-ages. I worked in the library of a convent in France as a illuminist. I was also a shepperd thousands of years ago. Perhaps on the next reincarnation I'll be a prince!
Beijinhos.
Americo


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Sun Jul 18 06:17:19 PDT 1999


Larry Edwardts,
You said (Sun Jul 18 00:49:03 PDT 1999):
"Hello Everybody!!!!
I've read some of your entries in Shadows. I'm impressed. Particularly Jack. The only thing I really want to ask is how and where do all the stories tie in?"

In answer to you post, I'm transcribing what I, as editor of "Shadows in a Dream", wrote on Tue Mar 23 16:44:28 PST 1999:

"TO ALL CONTRIBUTORS OF *SHADOWS IN A DREAM*
This is an important message and I'd appreciate you talked about it in the chat room (I have no access to it):
The novel has not a traditional structure. It is built by voices. Each collaborator writes a text (around 30 pages A4) interpreting the theme — the theme is in the round robin section — in his/her own way. Th title of each chapter will be the name of its author. Each author (or voice) can choose the name he likes — a little detail for the final version. The chapters, so entitled, may be intermingled throughout the book. This means that Allein's text, for instance, may be just ONE chapter of the book or SEVERAL chapters : 3.7, 10... The tango teacher will be chapters 1, 4, 9...for instance... and he, like everybody else, will tell his own experience of the event. The event is the preparation, the meeting and its aftermath of the writers in a five stars hotel in New York. Please do not hesitate e-mailing me if you need more guidelines."

NONE of the collaborators, except Rachel and me, have so far complied with the request to write "around 30 pages A4" (that is about 9 thousand words) "interpreting the theme" proposed and published in the introduction to the round robin. Considering that the deadline for the project is the 25th July (notice that the deadline has already been postponed one month — AT LEAST : the initial idea was for the book to be finished in May— WITHOUT VISIBLE IMPACT ON THE COLLABORATOR'S DILLIGENCE) I ask people to, at least, write 20 pages (around 6000 words) with beginning, middle and end. Without this prerequisite the individual story lines won't make sense and the editing will be imposible. The project will then be cancelled, each collaborator having, however, the copyright of his/her own texts — but not of the theme and title of the novel, which will revert to his creator, yours truly.

I cannot be more clear.

Please understand that a writer cannot be stuck on a single project and, mainly when it does not seem to go anywhere, must use his/her energies on something more psychologically rewarding. I would NOT like to waste time discussing this last issue on the notebook.



Larry Edwardts ltouzet@gs.verio.com Sun Jul 18 00:49:03 PDT 1999

Hello Everybody!!!!

I've read some of your entries in Shadows. I'm impressed. Particularly Jack. The only thing I really want to ask is how and where do all the stories tie in?

Rachel:

Your encouragement is like a lamp found in the darkness. Your heart must be very big indeed.

Martin:

I wrote you e-mail but I would like to add something.

Within us all is the desire to live forever. Some forget it because we are like seed cast upon sun-scorched stone. Others lose their desire because they are like seed cast upon shallow earth, no roots. Still others are robbed of this hope because ravenous birds devour thier dreams. Writers carry within them the seeds of eternity. Their words are the fertile ground of immortality.

Then again, some morning I wake up and feel like fertilizer.


S.K.S. Perry sks_perry@sympatico.ca Sat Jul 17 20:37:00 PDT 1999

Hey all,

Rachel, I'm actually here, I'm just really swamped for time.
I'll post soon though, and Email you later.

Be Well, Live Well.


Rachel danolson@sprint.ca Sat Jul 17 17:20:34 PDT 1999

Hi all

Hey Allein - Just a note to let you know I went over to visit Carling's mum yesterday and saw that she had still not mailed your letter off. Apparently it is on its way this week.

Avatar - YES!!!!!! Love the new additions. I'm so glad your back in Shadows!

Xavier - Hi you, are you goint to be posting in Shadows before the 25th? Let me know, okay?

Larry - Loving your story. I am half way through chapter 2 and have a page of notes and comments for you. Will send them off when I've done with chapter 2. Great story.

Arik - You still out there?

Jai, S.N.Arly, SKS - are you guys just lurking or are you really gone?

Jack - Your trip is getting so close! You must be very excited (great big smile).

Pnokio - I will be getting back to you on the e-mail and on Bakers and yup you are right I am stark raving mad!!!!!!!! (uh, er, um, but only in the very best way - grins and laughter)

Take care all
Rachel


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Sat Jul 17 15:34:30 PDT 1999

Oh, Avatar, you are more unforeseeable than your Entity. I thought you had said good-bye to "Shadows in a Dream" but you returned. Welcome back. That's a good example to all of us. (Did I say "us"? Slip of hope, I should think).

People: like you I am watching the CNN. Let us keep our hope and faith till the end.

Your friend,
Americo


Avatar firewings79@hotmail.com Sat Jul 17 15:09:11 PDT 1999

Wheeeeheeeheee!!!!

IT'S BACK! IT'S BACK!

Yeeeeessss!!!!

I am so relieved and overjoyed I posted not one, not two, but THREE in S'!

(With a little help from the entity)

;)

Enjoy, fellow notebookers!

(Skips off singing and dancing down the street)

-Avatar

8)


Avatar firewings79@hotmail.com Sat Jul 17 14:33:46 PDT 1999

It's meeeeeee!!!!!

(singing for joy)

It got fixed! It got fixed! Wheeee!!!!!!


Rachel danolson@sprint.ca Sat Jul 17 13:37:52 PDT 1999

Hi all

Hey Shadows people - Yup, I am back to drive you nuts! If you look into Shadows you will find a lovely new addition, and it is not by myself or by Americo.
If you want to see who it is by, you will need to go in and look, oh and while you are looking please feel free to leave an additon of your own.
It is the 17th and time is running out.
Take care all
Rachel


Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Sat Jul 17 07:05:24 PDT 1999

These are collaberations my friends thought up - I helped.

On those days when you aren't feeling to good..
Think of these things, they will chase some of the blues away...

NATURAL HIGHS


Remember The Feelings When???????

Falling in love.
Laughing so hard your face hurts.
A hot shower.
No lines at the Super Walmart.
A special glance.
Getting mail.
Taking a drive on a pretty road.
Hearing your favorite song on the radio.
Lying in bed listening to the rain outside.
Hot towels out of the dryer.
Walking out of your last final.
Finding the sweater you want is on sale for half price.
Chocolate milkshake.
A long distance phone call.
Getting invited to a dance.
A bubble bath.
Giggling.
A good conversation.
A care package.
The beach.
Finding a $20 bill in your coat from last winter.
Laughing at yourself.
Running through sprinklers.
Laughing for absolutely no reason at all.
Having someone tell you that you're beautiful.
Laughing at an inside joke.
Friends.
Falling in love for the first time.
Slumber parties.
Accidentally overhearing someone say something nice about you.
Waking up and realizing you still have a few hours left to sleep.
Your first kiss.
Being part of a team.
Making new friends or spending time with old ones.
Playing with a new puppy.
Late night talks with your roommate that keep you from sleeping.
Having someone play with your hair.
Sweet dreams.
Hot chocolate.
Road trips with friends.
Swinging on swings.
Watching a good movie cuddled up on a coach with someone you love.
Wrapping presents under the Christmas tree while eating cookies and drinking eggnog.
Song lyrics printed inside your new CD so you can sing along without feeling stupid.
Going to a really good concert.
Getting butterflies in your stomach every time you see that one person.
Making eye contact with a cute stranger.
Winning a really competitive game.
Making chocolate chip cookies!
Having your friends send you homemade cookies!
Spending time with close friends!
Running through the fountains with your friends.
Riding a bike downhill.
The feeling after running a few miles-an accomplishment!
The feeling you get the first time you step on stage.
Seeing smiles and hearing laughter from your friends...
Holding hands with someone you care about.
Wearing your boyfriend's shirt that still smells like his cologne.
Running into an old friend and realizing that some things (good or bad) never change.
Discovering that love is unconditional and stronger than time.
Riding the best roller coasters over and over.
Hugging the person you love.
Watching the expression someone's face as they open a much-desired present from you.
Kisses on your forehead from the first and only boy you have ever loved.
Watching the sunrise.
Cuddling up w/ a furry kitty - like Jon and petting him just to hear him purr. (I added this one - what can I say, I love kitties).
Getting out of bed every morning and thanking God for another beautiful day.

Hope that made everyone's day. :)
*Hugs* to all and I add my scratch behind the ear to Jon.
Allein


Prisioner of Albatross mystical marriage Mystical Literature Sat Jul 17 03:39:04 PDT 1999

Teresa of Avila, Saint

{ah'-vee-lah}

Saint Teresa of Avila, b. Mar. 28, 1515, d. Oct. 4, 1582, was a Spanish Carmelite and mystic who was declared a doctor of the church in 1970. ... Teresa wrote many works, among which are some of the greatest classics of mystical literature. A mystic of great stature who achieved the rare state of union referred to as mystical marriage, she wrote advice and direction for others, especially her nuns, with unusual beauty and equally unusual practical wisdom. She is considered an authority on spirituality in the Western world, and her writings are read and studied today as much as ever. Teresa's best-known works are The Way of Perfection (1583), The Interior Castle (1588), The Book of Foundations (1610), and her Life (1611). Feast day: Oct. 15.

Joan A. Range

Bibliography: Bilinkoff, J., The Avila of Saint Teresa (1989); Clissold, S., Saint Teresa of Avila (1982); Lincoln, V., Teresa (1985).


©1996 Grolier Electronic Publishing. All Rights Reserved.


Cassandra arcane128@hotmail.com Fri Jul 16 23:00:14 PDT 1999

Hi all,

On the tangented topic of Christianity, and the interpretation of the bible, I'd just first like to state for the record that I have never read the bible in its entirity, and am not a Christian in the usual sense of the word.

Of what I have heard of Christ's teachings, all are common sense, and just generally nice. I do follow, in some way, his ideas, and ideals as best I can. I do not, however, venerate him as a god. I believe moreso that there is the divine in each person, and to stress one over the others is to forever seperate them.

Would a god even care what name we called him/her/it by, as long as we lived by what we know in our hearts is right and good? Would a god care whether you prayed in a church, or in a meadow, or in the bathroom? Would a god care how you prayed, or how you keep your faith, as long as you keep it, and don't betray what you know is right?

These are just my thoughts. I'm not seeking to change anyone's faith here... in fact I hold great respect for those willing to keep such a vigil of faith, and belief. Because I either can not, or chose not to, doesn't mean you're wrong in doing so.

Amazing, I only was going to write to say that I lost the post that I was writing last night, and will have to leave my psychological questions for another day, because I am hot, and tired right now, and couldn't hit the broad side of a bar with what little sense my brain is making now... I guess it's making more sense than I thought...

Still, I need my beauty rest, and will be around tomorrow night to try to add more to the discussions taking place.

Martin
I'm going have to delay that scruptious serving of the 'whys' of artwork. Perhaps the hunger will be greater tomorrow. Tis best to have a meal appreciated to it's fullest, and cooked as best the chef can.

Good night to all *hugs and kisses* the whole notebook round. And a scratch behind the ear for our resident whiskered compatriot, Jon. :)

ta ta

Cassandra

"Learn to get in touch with the silence within yourself and know that everything in life has a purpose." -Elisabeth Kubler-Ross


Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/2823 Fri Jul 16 22:14:00 PDT 1999

I have to agree w/ Sqrl on the Bible being written by men. I mean, ever since the beginning of time, men have blamed women for everything - and it shows in the Bible. In the book of Genesis, Eve is blamed for tempting Adam to eat the fruit (long time back my Sunday school teacher told me it was a 'fruit' not an apple - well, an apple is a fruit ain't it?) but everyone probably knows that an hour before she picked the fruit for him, Adam was walking around the Garden of Eden saying "I'm bored, when's dinner, you got anything to eat..." So Eve, sick of his whining, picks the fruit, hands it to him and says "Here, eat this." But Adam whines some more "You sure this is good." So, Eve takes a bite of it to make sure it isn't poisonous. Then Adam eats it. But, later, when men write this down, they leave out the part the makes them look bad.
No, of course, I'm just kidding. That's obviously not how it happened. But I do have to agree w/ the saying that God created man first because you need a rough draft before creating a masterpiece - that would be woman (although, I happen to think that all of God's creatures are beautiful.
But, Allein's going to shut up now, before she finds a brick thrown through her window. However, you all must remember, that I am an American and therefore entitled to free speech under the 1st Amendment of our Constitution. *bowing* Thank you, thank you. All that sleeping in US history class finally paid off. I'd like to thank the school district for supplying the crappy desk I slept on, and my parents who wouldn't let me stay home even when I had "diptheria" - or, so I told them.
Well, anyway, I'll just leave now.
*HUGS* to all of you,
Allein


Sqrl Sqrlmunk55@aol.com Fri Jul 16 20:59:39 PDT 1999

Martin~
yeah I know all about the passage referring to women as "only being here for the men." But you have to remember that the Bible was written by men for men! So it's going to be sexist! Even so this still does NOT answer my question: Why was Jesus never pictured with a woman other than a street-walker? Is this to say that women are here for "serving men" only? or does it mean that Jesus didn't really care much for women?


Martin Fri Jul 16 14:25:43 PDT 1999

Thoughts on mind


The meaning of life is never to feel the urge to ask that question.

What makes you think you lived beyond your due? Maybe your due just has begun!


KB8UKS

. - / - ./ - . ./ - . - - / - - - /. . - / . - . / . - . /. /. - / . . . /- - - / - . / . . / - . / - - . / . . . . / . - / . . . / . - . . / . / - . . / - - / . / - / - - - / . - / - . / . / . - - / . - / - . / - . . / . . / - . / - / . / . - . / . / . . . / - / . . / - . / - - . / . - - . / - - - / . . / - . / - / - - - / . . - . / . . . - / . . / . / . - - / - - - / - . / . . - . / . - / . . / - / . . . . /

. - . - . / - . - /


Cassandra

Please do not throw them out on the table. Cook them with love; add an appetizer nobody can resist; open an excelent bottle of wine (my recommondation is Naracha); and end it with one of these gorgeous american deserts. Yumm. My mouth is watering in anticipation.


Squirrel

Somewhere, I think right in Revelation it is stated, that the women are made to serve the men.

The prostitute Maria Magdalena was all emancipation Jesus was able to do. Saying rejoyce women. There is even a place for you to serve in heaven. The prostitute is an ideal metaphor of women serving men.


Larry

I thought Jesus never died?

The reason why we do not have vivid meomories of heaven is because we would kill us instantly in our unperfection. Since Jesus was perfect he had to have a vivid memories of heaven.


Martin


Arik to all Nesis@actcom.co.il Http://www.angelfire.com/sk/TironZ Fri Jul 16 14:25:41 PDT 1999

Hello all, how are you? I will be gone for 3 days, I think so just wanted to say you that :-) I am going to a friend. I just really wanted to ask you to come into my page, my counter shows: 14!!!, I have to make it better... some how, so plese, if its not hard: Come in, reload a few times an have a look at it :-)

yours: Arik


Jack Beslanwitch jack@forwriters.com Fri Jul 16 12:25:28 PDT 1999

OK : I have archived and not a moment too soon. 144 k. Oh, well, I will not have the prompt of seeing this page load slow to let me know in the near future. TCI is finally laying fiber optic cables outside my front door on the street. So, hopefully, I will be able to place my order for a cable modem here in the very near future. How long that will take to get from order to reality is another question. And then there are the security issues, but I am looking forward to the speed :-). Take care everyone and good writing. Only nine more days left on Shadow so get your pieces in soon. I will be giving my keynote speech and handing things over for a tea ceremony sometime this weekend. I may wear a bullet proof vest lest someone bring fire arms in. Oh, of could target where the bullet proof vest is not. Ooops.


Hope Jon catches lots of fish.


Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Fri Jul 16 11:54:43 PDT 1999

Sqrl: A nun? Hmm. It should be a wonderful experience being a nun, like Teresa d'Ávila, a great mystic writer for that matter ("Las Moradas"). To be deeply in love with someone you cannot touch and who does not touch you, just thought&feeling intercourse — my dream of passion! A very cybernetic one, now that I come to think of it. Where good old mysticism meets present-day technology!
NB.For mystic writers, Anglo-Saxs have got one of my favorite poets : John Donne, a conceptualist of high caliber. I am a mystic writer myself, in my best periods of the month, of a rather pagan shade and type, I'm afraid.

Sqrl:You are absolutely right about Catholics NOT worshipping saints or their iconic representations. They just revere or venerate them, with the same respect anyone has for the photographs of our loved ones.That's at least the doctrine of the Roman Church. What some people do in practice is a different matter.
NB. I love the sculpters of Appolo. I like to think they look a bit like me, but that's probably fancy and imagination (for the difference between those two concepts read the preface to the "Lyrical Ballads", a collaborative work (kind of roundrobin) of Wordsworth and Coleridge.)

Sqrl: Hugging the back of the statue of Santiago de Compostela is an old tradition typical of that pilgrimage spot. I do not know any other saint enjoying the same privilege. Good pilgrims also insert the five fingers of one of their hands in five holes situated right in front of the main door of the Cathedral, and knock their heads three times against the facial representation of master Matteo, the architect that built the Cathedral. This is called "los tres croques".
NB: Isn't Galicia a wonderful nation?

Three pieces of information — thirty pesetas.
NB: This reminds me that I have not seen Jon since I returned from old Spain. I hope he has not gonna fishing.



Liz Taylor tats@pacbell.net Fri Jul 16 10:28:16 PDT 1999

I have written articles, stories, proposals and contracts all my life, but this is my first attempt at publishing anything and I am overwhelmed with my ignorance of the process.


Larry Edwardts ltouzet@gs.verio.com Fri Jul 16 08:08:28 PDT 1999

Allein
I once saw a bumper sticker that said: "Jesus loves you. Everyone else thinks your a jerk." I thought about my boss.

Martin
I have studied the bible at least once a week for 15 years, but sometimes as much as 5 times a week. I usually average about 3 times a week. There are quite a few inconsistencies that I have not resolved. This does not deter my faith. It merely tells me I have more to interpret. Noticed I used interpret.
I have sometimes found interesting concepts. Here are two:
Did it take longer for Jesus to die than a normal man? If his body was perfect, then did his body unsuccessfully battle the spikes through his wrist. I've always envisioned a tremendous healing factor in him. I've seen many scifi stories allude or directly point to a super healing ability.

Did Jesus have a vivid memory of heaven? Mankind would probably not look upon death the same way. Especially if we had vivid memories of heaven. So, How could Jesus suffer the anxiety as man could? Was his memory of his prehuman existence vague?

About the bible:
The English word "Bible" comes through the Latin from the Greek word bi·bli'a, meaning "little books." This, in turn, is derived from bi'blos, a word that describes the inner part of the papyrus plant out of which a primitive form of paper was made.

Sixty-six individual books from Genesis to Revelation make up the Bible canon.

The Bible is not an unrelated assortment or collection of heterogeneous fragments from Jewish and Christian literature. Rather, it is an organizational book, highly unified and interconnected in its various segments, which indeed reflect the systematic orderliness of the Creator-Author himself. God's dealings with Israel in giving them a comprehensive law code as well as regulations governing matters even down to small details of camp life—things that were later mirrored in the Davidic kingdom as well as in the congregational arrangement among first-century Christians—reflect and magnify this organizational aspect of the Bible.

Sir Isaac Newton once said: "I find more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history whatsoever."

The bible chronicles a rather large time frame. One book would not be enough.


Sqrl Sqrlmunk55@aol.com Fri Jul 16 06:54:12 PDT 1999

okay this is going to be one weird post!

Xavier!!
WELCOME BACK! :-) No we didn't forget about you!

Americo ~
"In conclusion. Protestants are wrong when they say that Catholics adore statues. They do not. They just kiss their feet and hug their backs. I find this tradition very respectful but rather boring. I should be a Catholic, right? I was baptized and all that. And I do not mind hugging the back of Santiago. But queueing in a narrow corridorjust for that is above my faith. I think I'll go to hell. Can you help me? Without trying to convert me to another persuasion, of course."
~okay. I think I can help out on this one. For those of you that don't know, I'm Roman Catholic (I was once Lutheran, my parents had me converted so I could go to a Catholic school. don't ask) and have attended Catholic schools my entire life. I even toyed with the idea of becoming a nun for a while. (ummmmm . . . who thinks I'd last a day? RAISE YOU HAND HIGH!) The tradition of kissing the feet of statue can be traced back to non-Catholic tradtions, won't get into this history lesson. Basicly, it's a sign of respect. It's sorta like the washing of the feet, in Biblical times. And thanks for setting the record streight! WE DO NOT WORSHIP STATUES! The statue is there as a symbol, nothing more, nothing less, although SOME people to get carried away. ::rolling eyes:: As for hugging the back of a statue . . . ummmm . . . NO! That's just weird!

Martin
"Why are there so many ways to look at the bible?"
~I raised that same question to many people in the Church, as well as some of my formor schools. I ALWAYS got the same answer. "God had the writers write in such a mannor that could have various interpratations, so that the believers and non-believers could be weeded out. It's a test, to see who can understand what God really wants, and if you look inside, you can understand the Bible."
I have this written on a few tests. ::rolling eyes:: I especially loved their reactions when I brought up this issue (see is any of you can help me): "Why do we never see Jesus with women, with the exception of his mother, a few worshipers here and there, and Mary Magdalon (a prostatute)? Why is he ALWAYS with men? Of course I realise that back then men and women didn't really socialise, but Jesus was sent here for EVERYONE! I can bring up some Last Supper comments, but won't." (I think I'm the one who's going to Hell for bringing this up!)


 

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