Archived Messages from August 15, 1999 to September 19, 1999
Sun Sep 19 06:56:48 PDT 1999
Martin Sun Sep 19 06:56:48 PDT 1999
guys
Does any of you guys know how I can teach my stupid computer something as complicated as the kryllian alphabet? It neither can read it or write it.
Thanks
Martin Sun Sep 19 05:40:54 PDT 1999
Mark
Why don’t you signe off as Mister Ed?
Martin
Martin Sun Sep 19 05:10:19 PDT 1999
Allein
Your latest funnies were not only good to laugh about, they were very inspiring.
About your poems:
I think that And onto a land mine, should rime with flowers or vice versa
Watch out that each line contains the same amount of syllables
What is a noun/verb poem?
The poem about change you should publish somewhere. I enjoyed it.
The remember poem is to less pictures or maybe I am just blind except for the pools of chocolate for I know hoe much you love chocolate. Maybe you shoul try to applicate for a Swiss citizenship.
Only women understand women and only man understand man. You know shaving is for the best in a man, therefore a little blood does not hurt. If you cut your face with a razor it does not bleed so much.
And for Gods sake
What is a Pikachu?
Larry
All I know about the DNA is that is very strong and that you can neither change or destroy it. It will last forever. Meaning if I find a splinter of your bones in two thousand years I kow your DNA. Nevertheless the idea with the blood transfusion and the changed DNA makes up for a good science-fiction story.
How smart you are. What is a King cake baby? But you forgot that I also would ask what floaties are?
Martin
Rachel Sun Sep 19 00:09:56 PDT 1999
Hi all
Allein - I will write :D
Gary - Okay, I have something to tell you... Uh, well, its not really the animals there buddy, I think you should be worried about the spiders. I hear that they can be quite nasty in that part of the worlds (right Jai)? Either way. I'm with yah, and I have a full gas can. Bwah, ha, ha, ha. That's right Hayden! I've taken over your car again! This time I don't have any chocolate but I do now after quite the wresteling match with Gary have the keys. Yes, he faught with all his strength, but I know the flying tickel hold and he could not resist, besides he wanted to wear the lampshade again... Well, now we are having a lovely time. I'll have the car back to you sometime soon (GRINS) So Gary, where should we go?
Rosemary - Yup, that was me. Glad you remember (smiles).
Mark - Welcome!
Larry - So, I'll take that to mean that your okay with my comments. Good stuff (smiles) Hey, I will be looking for more of that story. As for rejections, don't sweat it. Your one up on me. I still haven't even worked up the guts to submit something. Yup, its a sad true fact. I don't even have a rejection to call my own. I almost sent something once, but I changed my mind. Had the envelope all set and ready to go, and just couldn't do it. I guess I'm just not ready, wonder if I ever will be.
Hey all - Could somebody send me a nice nasty rejection so I can frame it up? Hum? It would hurt less coming from a friend (grins). Any takers?
Write at yah later
Take care all
Rachel
gariess gsouza@corc.net Sat Sep 18 23:01:47 PDT 1999
Larry,
I'm always a bit confused about DNA myself, especially after the Simpson Trial. Have you read any Patricia Cornwell? She touches on it occasionally.
Jerry,
Sorry not to respond to your post about the Nam, I tend to walk lightly around that topic. Second ammendment rights is about as controversial as I like to get on a posting board. I should at least say, however, that 'I hear you.'
All,
On the topic of writing, I got a rejection in the mail today from an agent I submitted to almost two years ago. Better late than never. I don't even have the manuscript any more.
Mark,
I give up, what is a King cake baby?
Allein,
Nice poems. Very clever, the one about change. Please do get an electric shaver, Images of razors letting blood freak me out.
Colleen,
Hello, Colleen, It seems there was a Colleen who posted here a while ago. Welcome, don't mind Hayden, he always wears a lampshade. Something about being from a large family and getting attention, that sort of thing.
Americo,
I am still hoping for good things to come in Timor Loro Sae.
Katarina,
I hope you are still out there. Please let us hear from you.
Hayden,
I'm still sitting here in the Porsche with no fuel. If you want this thing back you'd better send the road service out. No kidding man, I really think this is the Outback. There could be dangerous animals out here. You could at least speak, or better yet, send water.
Gariess
Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://alleinanderson.8m.com Sat Sep 18 20:28:53 PDT 1999
Larry - I regret to inform you that I'm not yet published - in fact, I'm still in high school (most of the jokes aren't even mine - I get them through e-mail). But, I do have a work in progress and you can find it at my website. The address is listed above. :)
Allein
Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://alleinanderson.8m.com Sat Sep 18 20:24:24 PDT 1999
Here's some poems I've written recently in Creative Writing.
Pikachu rolls through flowers,
And grass,
And onto a land mine,
There goes his ass! (hope that word isn't offensive to anyone - don't think it would be though - I've seen it posted here before)
Pikachu so little and sweet,
Pikachu wants to cross the street,
He looks to the left,
Then to the right,
And when the traffic is done,
He steps of the curb and is hit by a bus,
And knocked to kingdom come.
Here's a noun/verb poem:
Drink your milk, small baby,
Mommy's here to sing,
As the bird flies 'round your crib,
Hold your stuffed cat,
Try and sleep,
Go to bed and when you wake,
You'll find morning here.
This is a poem about my brother. We were supposed to write a poem about a person:
Jeremy, like an unmoving log,
Lying like a sloth in his room,
Playing,
Video games like Final Fantasy,
Sonic the Hedgehog,
Empty stare,
Looking at the glowing light,
Coming from the TV.
A poem about change:
Little
baby boy,
asleep in,
mother's
arms
Older now,
pulling
girls'
hair
Young child
full of
life
Adolecsent,
rebellious,
hormone driven,
somewhere,
between
child and
adult
Young man,
with his
wife,
watching
Little
baby girl,
asleep in
mother's
arms
Here's one that describes Magiki as she saw her baby brother (Quachik) for the first time:
I remember how soft, how pure you were,
I remember that chubby little cherub,
swaddled in a blanket,
I remember your exact double lying beside you
I remember your eyes - the pools of chocolate
that looked at me
I remember how I wanted a sister
instead of two brothers
I remember your tiny hand grabbing mine,
I remember you wrinkling your nose as I giggled,
I remember the first moment I knew I loved you.
Misc. Poems:
Ow!
Feel the razor,
Cutting my flesh,
Blood staining the shower stall floor,
I believe I will stop shaving manually.
Damn!
Why must I sit here,
Day after day,
English, Sports Med, Foreign Language,
And then so much homework,
Just because teachers don't have lives,
Doesn't mean I don't!
Well, that's it for now. I hope you've enjoyed this edition of Allein's poetry corner.
Allein
Larry Edwardts LEdwardts@aol.com Sat Sep 18 20:18:15 PDT 1999
Sorry! I forgot to ask. Has anyone heard of Authorlink.com?
It is a site where you post a manuscript for a fee. Does anyone have any experience with this site?
Larry E
Larry Edwardts LEdwardts@aol.com Sat Sep 18 20:10:24 PDT 1999
Stories with DNA have always fascinated me. I was wondering . Does DNA change after a blood transfusion? Do the cells just die off and continue mapping the same? I probably have the wrong concept of the DNA map!
Rachael:
As always, you are a lamp in the darkness. I had stopped writing when rejections from agents came in duplicates.
Is there any sci-fi or techno-thriller round robins currently in progress or about to begin?
Allien:
Please tell me you have a book out there. Your sense of humor astounds me! Your quips bring a smile to us all. Thanks.
I tried my hand at humor once bust my fingers always got sticky.
I.E.
I once wrote ten reasons that tell it is raining hard in New Orleans. Since they are local humor, I'll only give you three.
3. I found a crawfish in my mailbox.
2. The Saints(the local footbal franchise) are learning a new play called the back stroke.
1. King cake babies now come with floaties. (This is why my humor fails. Most people would ask: What is a King cake baby?)
Oh well.
Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://alleinanderson.8m.com Sat Sep 18 18:24:36 PDT 1999
Okay, time for your daily dose of funnies.
The Top 10 Things only Women Understand
10. Why it's good to have five pairs of black shoes.
9. The difference between cream, ivory, and off-white.
8. Crying can be fun.
7. FAT CLOTHES.
6. A salad, diet drink, and a hot fudge sundae make a balanced lunch.
5. Discovering a designer dress on the clearance rack can
be considered a peak life experience.
4. The inaccuracy of every bathroom scale ever made.
3. A good man might be hard to find,
but a good hairdresser is next to impossible.
2. Why a phone call between two women never lasts under ten minutes.
And the number on thing that only women understand
1. OTHER WOMEN!
Rachel - please e-mail me soon. :)
Allein
Mark marked@skynow.net Sat Sep 18 16:42:43 PDT 1999
Oh dear,
It seems that you already have a member who signs off as Ed.
In future I will sign off as Mark. (which is my real name)
Happy days to all.
Mark
Mark marked@skynow.net Sat Sep 18 16:19:42 PDT 1999
This illustrious site has captured my imagination for some time now.
May I say Hello to all of the regular members.
I have watched the interaction of the members and I have rejoiced at the honesty shown here.
Stay here, and write.
I feel like I know you all.
Allein,
I love your innocent youth.
Americo,
You inspire me.
Rhoda,
You prick my Concience.
I will be be here!
Ed
Avatar firewings79@hotmail.com Sat Sep 18 12:29:48 PDT 1999
Ach, mi 'ead's 'urtin'!
Americo- Sorry I'm behind. There's only so much a kid can do, even if it is for Shadows. The bulk of my texts is actually how I got my name. Fiction or nonfiction? You be the judge. Is my topic still good for the S' project? Need to know soon.
I've got to go now people. Be back later today.
Later all
-Avatar
Martin Sat Sep 18 12:20:25 PDT 1999
Alleine
Why post your poems in the workbook? Post them right here. If you post them in the workbook it looks to me like everybody is screaming we want to talk about literature but everytimes when actual literature happens they hide it in the workbook. What do you think?
The old man and Gary
I have a solution to the current dicussion if american citizen should be allowed to carry weapons. Everybody who owns a weapon should be obliged to shoot his/her weapon at least twice a week for a minimum of an hour each at a shooting farm. Whoever does not want to go into so much time consuming action does not care for his/her weapon and therefore should not be allowed to carry a weapon.
Hey I should become a politician.
Martin
Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://alleinanderson.8m.com Sat Sep 18 12:10:06 PDT 1999
Colleen - welcome! I hope you stick around and we can be friends. :)
Allein
Rachel Sat Sep 18 11:39:00 PDT 1999
Colleen - Welcome and thanks for the comment
Take care you
Rachel
Colleen Sat Sep 18 11:32:00 PDT 1999
Just wandered onto this site....and must say that I enjoyed reading your postings....fun! I'm an aspiring writer....key word here...aspiring....Oh, to put my thoughts on the page for all the world to see. I can hear the murmurings now..."Is that ALL that's in that woman's head????"; Oh to be brave. Rachel, especially enjoy reading you. Colleen
Jerry Ericsson Sat Sep 18 10:38:56 PDT 1999
I know what you are talking about, there have been many times when I felt that my posts were totally ignored. Guess you have to agree or disagree most hardily to get a response from posts.
Maybe attacking? No that isn't what this is supposed to be all about, however you are right, there has been very little talk of writing of late.
Eddie French eddiefrench@email.com http://www.efrench.freeserve.co.uk Sat Sep 18 09:55:45 PDT 1999
Hmmmm....
This honoured forum changes daily....no..hourly!
Rhoda, I'm not 'gone' merely quiet.
I watch with a fascination which compels me to stay, to read the next chapter in this unintentional round robin which is the notebook.
For a time, I felt like some sort of God...watching my people go about there lives, all the better for not knowing I watched. I gained insights more valuable than if I had participated.
No No No, how could I ever leave.
Americo, yes, I did let you down on the 'S' project. I had a severe case of 'Block' (laziness) and so fell by the wayside. A little of what Katrina spoke about and a little of my own worries kept me down there. Sorry.
There is no place on earth like the notebook, believe me! I have contributed to forums throughout the world. I have been online since 1990 or there abouts so I know!!
Allein,
I love your funnys, keep them coming.
Katrina,
Stick around, contribute thoughtfully and you will be rewarded tenfold.
All,
Nice to say hello again, be well.
Ed
gariess gsouza@corc.net Sat Sep 18 06:36:39 PDT 1999
Jerry, Katarina, Rosemary,
Please don't be discouraged. I think we can all do a better job of interacting. I have explained to Katarina that I have had problems with posting on the board, and regrettably, a reply that I made to her post somehow, never went up. I believe I saw it on my screen but no one else did. Now it is gone.
Apart from a single technical FUBAR, however, the complaints that you make are valid criticisms. I vow, personally, to take a more active interest in what others are posting and to be more conscious of feelings people may have about being acknowledged. I feel badly that anyone has felt ignored or slighted in any way. I know that Rhoda has alluded to the "cold shoulder" Martin has been getting from Americo, although it seems to me more of "hot shoulder." Personally, Americo never comes across to me in terms of low temperatures.
Anyway, folks, please don't go away. Please keep posting. Give us a chance to make good.
Hayden, you know, you could help a little here. I mean put down the glass of sauce, and the whoopee cushion for a minute. We have some dignified people here. No, I don't want to dance, now.
Well, I guess it won't be easy, folks but stick around.
GS
gariess gsouza@corc.net Sat Sep 18 04:43:07 PDT 1999
Dear Folks,
Am I seeing the same board that everyone else is seeing? The first part of one post was written by Allein and the second by me. Is this some new form of involuntary collaboration, or has the Notebook just become unstable?
I saw some things while posting the other day that seem to have disappeared in the meantime. How did I miss the part about Rhoda leaving? I don't want you to leave, either, Rhoda. Least of all without seeing your post.
Maybe Jack knows what's happening.
GS
Martin Sat Sep 18 02:49:12 PDT 1999
Americo
Okay. I have joked about something that is sacred to you. Can you imagine how many jokes I already heared about Russia - a sacred place to me?
By the way. Rhoda and Weston are well informed and they know exactly what they were talking about. I am sure they know more about it than I or you do. (or is it me or you?) They never said you had no reason or motive they simply said, that you overreacted. Didn’t you? And maybe, who knows, maybe you are not the only one who has a good reason to post. Maybe I had a good reason for that joke as well. Couldn’t it be possible?
You acuse me of something and expect me to defend myself? Strange very strange. I certainly will not do that.
But what stroke me most strangly is the fact that all people who agreed with me you have acused of being ill informed in the last post. Fascinating!
Martin
Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://alleinanderson.8m.com Fri Sep 17 20:47:26 PDT 1999
Hi everyone,
I've been in a creative writing class at school and I might put some of my poems on the workbook if anyone wants to read them. They're not very good, but I haven't shared writing in a while.
Rhoda - Please don't leave us. I hate it when people leave. :(
I also don't like the arguing. I do, however, believe that everyone has a right to express their feelings and thoughts freely on the notebook. So, if Americo wants to voice his opinion about Martin, then he should have that liberty, however, I feel many people would mostly likely disagree that Martin is a Nazi. I find Martin and Americo to both be kind and gentle men. They are both my friends and I love them to pieces. :) But, of course, I will not get in the middle of it because I've done that before and it only leads to trouble.
Rachel - Thanks a bunch. I'm going shopping for your birthday present on Sunday (I'm working Sat. so I can actually get some money). I think you're going to like it. :) I can probably get some soundtracks from my friend in Germany, so, it's no problem. I hope they have some soundtracks in Japanese though. I can't wait for you to come down and visit - I'm so happy! :D
Love and peace,
Allein
Okay: Time for funnies. :) (well, my face is pretty funny, so you can go to the biography section for a good laugh).
Random thoughts:
Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film.
Corduroy pillows: They're making headlines!
Shin: A device for finding furniture in the dark.
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
I poured spot remover on my dog, now he's gone.
Used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out.
Couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.
Why do psychics have to ask for your name?
Wear short sleeves! Support your right to bear arms.
All those who believe in psychokinesis raise my hand.
Rachel danolson@sprint.ca Fri Sep 17 19:19:31 PDT 1999
Hi all
My, my, my. A girl goes of to make diner and just look at what goes on! Looks like we are all clearing the air. That can be good. I'm glad to see so many people posting.
ROSEMARY - This post is for you (smiles). I didn't put your name in caps to yell, I just wanted to be sure that I had your attention. I happen to know that not only did I respond to a post that you left directly to me, but I also wrote you an e-mail. I guess you didn't notice my response, or get my e-mail. Well either way, know that I did both. I know for sure the e-mail, and I am fairly certain on the post. Do you remember, you posted to be about the fact that I burn my work? I am sure that was you. Well, anyway. I hope you stick around.
Rhoda - I have gone into the chat room so many times and found nobody, and other times I have gone in a found one or two people. I think it is all just the luck of the draw. I also know that it can get confusing when you are dealing with different time zones. Heck! I made a phone call today. It was no easy task, the person I was calling is 8 hours ahead of me. Anyway, it is not always easy to hook up, but don't get discouraged (smiles). I love your posts and I would miss you if you were gone.
Jerry Lee - Good to see you again.
Take care all
Rachel
Allein - I made a couple of phone calls today about the soundtracks. It will not be as easy as I had thought. I will be calling some Japanese and French record stores tomorrow, but the chances of me tracking down German soundtracks in the area would seem to be slim. Well, unless you want my old neighbours music (grins) but I don't think those are the soundtracks you would be interested in (much laughter). I'll keep you posted. Hey! I hope you got my e-mail. I also loved the virtual flower. It was very pretty. It lifted my spirits on a day when I was felling quite flat.
Take care you
Rachel
Rhoda rfort@ren.net Fri Sep 17 18:50:39 PDT 1999
Americo,
Forgive me for referring to you in such a way. I meant no slight. True, I do not understand all that has passed between you and Martin, and I should not have dredged up that past incident. I only meant to say that strong feelings have passed here on the Notebook before.
I really do not like the tenor of the conversation now. A few months ago, Eddie and Michele complained chronically about the Notebook and both left. Thomas and SNArly got into an argument, and SKS left in disgust. I don't think I can really stand another go around like that right now.
A person can always take offense if he or she wants to. I think that every single one of you who has posted has something to do with the conversation and the direction it takes. If you want it to be a gripe session, then it will. If you wish to feel slighted because someone hasn't responded properly to your posts, then consider yourself slighted, whether it was ever the intent or not.
Personally, no one has offended me. I am very fond of you all. I just hate to see negativity take over the board, and it is that negativity that will ultimately drive me away.
Rhoda
Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://alleinanderson.8m.com Fri Sep 17 18:30:54 PDT 1999
Katrina - In all honesty, when I get home from school, I find that there are several new posts and I quickly skim them. I don't really give responses very often - if not, it means that I probably don't know what to say. But please don't leave us. You seem like a really nice person. :)
Allein
Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Fri Sep 17 17:37:44 PDT 1999
Rhoda: I had good reason to say that I suspect Martin is a Nazi more or less in desguise. I do not withdraw any of my words until further evidence to the contrary, which must come from him and not from anyone else. He knows why I said that. You do not. Rather than bad-mannered, as someone called me (Weston), I was more kind than I care to tell you or the other people in this place. I am not a man to publish private correspondence, if you know what I mean. But I have the right to publicly show my indignation when someone publicly attacks or jokes with things that are sacred to me — which was the case.
And I am not an "irate person". I am Americo, someone with a name and worthy of your respect and consideration. Please do not mix into matters which you ignore. Your good-will, which I usually appreciate, was rather out of place and more unfortunate than you can imagine. I am very sorry that you said that and treated me like a ill-mannered rufian with no reason or motive. You should know me better.
Katarina: still on the subject of not getting replies to one's posts. I sometimes have the same feeling as you and am quite often tempted to leave the Notebook. What I do to resist that temptation is to think that the notebook is a kind of diary, where I write notes sometimes only for me. Quite a good place to remember where I left my "thoughts and reflections". I lose easily things like pieces of paper or paper notebooks.
Rhoda rfort@ren.net Fri Sep 17 16:52:01 PDT 1999
Katrina and Jerry Lee,
I am truly sorry you feel the way you do. It is news to me, Jerry, that you are not welcome here on the Notebook. A "cold shoulder?" Really?
I have posted here for over two years and most of my posts do not get responded to. I think here and there I have written some well thought out ones too. But never have I thought I was receiving a "cold shoulder."
If you want to talk about insults and "cold shoulders," ask Martin. He posted something and was called a Nazi and told not to come back again by one irate person. That is a "cold shoulder." Happily, Martin is still with us after that.
If I have excluded anyone, please forgive me. I never meant to. It was not intentional and I didn't realize I was doing it. If I disagree with something posted, I generally say so. If I say nothing, it usually means I agree or assent. I am not very good at e-mail. I correspond with a few people, but I am a little shy at initiating those contacts on my own.
I spend most my life ignored. I guess I have gotten used to it, and it doesn't bother me. Many times I give my children wonderful advice about how not to get in trouble, and it isn't always heeded. I suppose about 10% of what I say sinks in, so I keep trying. As Americo has mentioned, if you want to feel ignored, be a writer. Submit your heart and soul to editors and agents and just see how impersonal are most of the responses. Sometimes I honestly wonder if some of my submissions are even read. Once in a while a friend might praise my writing, and I enjoy that when it happens, but most of the time I get ignored. Rarely someone has the courage to tell me my writing is not good.
Jerry, if you think there is good discussion here, stick around. If there are people here that really don't like what you say, I have found they will tell you, or at least some will.
The Old Man earlier lamented the injustice of conversation without personal contact. I think I now understand his meaning. If this was a chat room rather than a board, then these misunderstandings might not come up as much.
Incidently, I put out a personal invitation to use the Java chat room last Saturday. I waited at the prescibed time 15 minutes, and no one showed up. I was disappointed. It could be that the chat room didn't work for everyone. It could also be that everyone was busy that day. This is the second time that has happened to me. I suppose I should have gotten mad about it. It was sort of humiliating now that I think about it. But actually I don't remember letting it ruin my day then, and I won't let it ruin my day now.
It is our choice how we choose to react to situations we don't like. I just hate to see people get disenchanted and threaten to leave. On the basis of aforementioned criteria, there shouldn't be a soul left using this Notebook.
Rhoda
Rosemary rcalien7@cs.com Fri Sep 17 16:50:53 PDT 1999
Hello,
Just a quick note to Katarina,
I have posted here three or four times in the last six months and never received an answer or mention of any kind. I keep droping in ocasionally, but posting is usually a waste of time for me.
Maybe you'll have a better experience.
Good luck
Rosemary
Jerry Lee jerryleejr@xoommail.com Fri Sep 17 15:23:27 PDT 1999
Katarina,
I could not agree more. Both with your last post and the fact that for a new member to be acknowledged, they must discuss only the topic at hand, and then only in carefully chosen words. If the idea is fresh and the topic is controversial, the troupe seems to turn a cold shoulder.
You have not seen my name here for quite a while for exactly that reason. Too bad, too. Because this page is about the best place I've seen on the web for discussion.
I hang around, but being as unwelcome as on of those guys on Star Trek in the red shirts (who you know is going to die in this episode) I've quit participating. I still hope for the chance to say something "acceptable", but I'm really wondering if it's worth it.
Later,
Jerry Lee
Katarina k_dilwortH@yahoo.com Fri Sep 17 13:56:58 PDT 1999
Americo & Rachel: Thank you. I appreciate your response.
Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Fri Sep 17 12:00:16 PDT 1999
Katarina: this Notebook is an excellent mirror of what expects you when you become a published writer. If you are already one you know that the frustration of not receiving immediate answers from critics or readers is a cruel fact. And then, suddenly, you become aware that more people than you have ever dreamed of have read you and have strong opinions about you, perhaps even more than about your books.
Some years ago, I was travelling in a commuter train from Lisbon to Estoril. It was about 2 a.m. and there were only three people in my carriage. Two youngmen quietly conversing on the same seat and I, half-asleep, on the other end of the carriage. They were discussing a book they had read. One did not seem to have a great impression about the book. He was of the opinion that the book lacked originality. That was when his companion got mad and started criticising his notion of "originality" and defending the book as really original. It was only when they were almost fighting that I realized that the matter of such controversy was one of my books and that none of the youngmen had recognized me as its author.
I was feeling very lonely at the time and was living under the impression that no one cared about what I wrote. When I got home and felt safe from the wrath of those two angry readers, I was very happy and realized that there is not such a thing as a voice preaching in the desert. Someway or another we are always making an impression, even if we cannot see its immediate effects.
Long live Timor Lorosae!
Rachel Fri Sep 17 07:57:25 PDT 1999
Hi Katrina
Your wrong (smiles). It may seem that way, but it isn't. I would usually have responded to a post, even if by e-mail. I do not often leave my deeper thoughts and opinions on the notebook.
I have been sick and not been doing much.
I'll tell you that often when I read posts I will agree or disagree, but not always respond. It doesn't mean that nobody read what you put, or that nobody cares. Honestly (smiles for you).
Hope you stick around, but if you head out...
Take care
Rachel
Jerry Ericsson Fri Sep 17 07:03:16 PDT 1999
Anyhow back to writting topics:
FOR ALL You COMPUTER EXPERTS!
I have a spelling checker
I disk covered four my PC.
It plane lee marks four my revue
Miss steaks aye can knot see.
Eye ran this poem threw it.
Your sure real glad two no.
Its very polished in its weigh,
My checker tolled me sew.
A checker is a blessing.
It freeze yew lodes of thyme/
It helps me right awl stiles t~to reed,
And aides me when aye rime.
Each frays comes posed on my screen
Eye trussed too bee a joule
The checker pours o'er every word
To cheque sum spelling
Bee fore wee rote with checkers
Hour spelling was in deck line
Butt now when wee dew have a laps,
Wee are not maid too wine.
And now bee cause my spelling
Is checked with such grate flare,
There are know faults in awl this peace,
Of nun eye am a wear
To rite with. care is quite a feet
Of witch won should be proud,
And wee missed dew the best wee can,
Sew flaws are knot aloud,
That's why eye brake in two averse
Cuz Eye dew want too please.
Sow glad eye yam that aye lid bye
This soft wear four pea seas.
Thought this might lighten up the topics and get us back on track talking about writting.
Katarina k_dilworth@yahoo.com Fri Sep 17 07:00:18 PDT 1999
After my last post, and no response whatsoever to what I wrote, I feel unwelcome. It seems to me (and I am not being childish or petty), that this notebook is based on two or three contributors and others simply minor intrusions? Someone tell me I am wrong!?
Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://alleinanderson.8m.com Fri Sep 17 06:08:05 PDT 1999
Americo - this weekend, I shall begin that part on the masquarade. :)
Only about 2 weeks till Rachel visits me! I'm so happy! :)
Allein
"If at first you never succeed, never try Russian roulette."
"If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you."
Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Fri Sep 17 04:51:26 PDT 1999
Good morning, people of East Timor! In the next few hours you will see the light of hope.
------------
"Shadows" people: I cannot make the book without the final versions of the texts of ALL co-authors. The bulk of the texts of Sqrl and Avatar do not fit the general structure of the book and must be revised by their authors as it was already asked. Xavier has not answered my post asking him to send me his complete output — at least until now he is NOT a co-author and I start wondering if he will ever become one.
I do not mind writing the book with a very limited number of co-authors or even alone. So, those who are interested in trying to make a most successful round robin in a real book make up your mind: do you want just to remain successful "round robiners" or also want to try to become authors? If you want to try to become authors, please collaborate activelly and promptly — according to the rules published in the round robin itself. I give you a week to answer this appeal.
I also remind all notebookers that, as it was suggested when the "S" project was launched, any posts published here may be used, in any form whatsoever, for describing the Notebook and their people. This means that any of you may become a character in "Shadows" and your "thoughts and reflections" preserved for posterity. We have all sorts of characters there, even a cat.
The novel is "a study on the cybernetic mind", which means an analysis of the kind of people who use the Internet with passion and how the Internet — and mainly a page like the Notebook— may affect their everyday life and even their personality.
-------
People of East Timor (Timor Lorosae): all my thoughts and heart and tears are for you. I love you, children that have been born in the worst possible conditions, women that have been raped and brutally killed, men that have been murdered and tortured just because they want to be free from the tyranny of a foreign country with a completely different culture and religion from the one you want to preserve, priests and nuns who only want to do good. I love you! Your cause is the cause of democracy and humanity — not a difficult cause to understand. Good morning, my brethren!
Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://alleinanderson.8m.com Thu Sep 16 18:19:41 PDT 1999
Gariess - I know they buy pine cones too. We have a squirrel living around our house and he's always biting and knocking down green pinecones in order to age them so he can eat them. I've seen squirrels and chipmunks and they're both very cute. I've yet to see a sqrlmunk though...
Allein
The Old Man theoldman@williamshakespeare.com Thu Sep 16 15:37:04 PDT 1999
Ladies and gentlemen,
Lo, the injustice of conversation sans personal contact.
Martin,
To the few people with whom I speak on a face-to-face basis, it is understood that I congradulate the writers of our constitution for being so forward-thinking as to install the second ammendment. I agree with the notion of a government that lacks the power to to disarm the populace that it serves. In other words, good for the gun-owners!
But, when the dubious wording is mis-enterpreted into allowing deranged individuals to purchase anything in the way of weaponry for their own cruel ends, I say that there must be a mutually satisfying answer to the 'gun problem'. One that the gun owners and the rest of a frightened nation can live with.
Allien,
As for squirrels digging up other squirrels nuts; Did your source of information tell you that rodents are uncommonly greedy little things. The reason they dig other's booty is so that their own hoard is left for themselves. Does it not follow that with such a talented nose, the squirrels in question could not more easily find their own nuts in their own territory rather than passing by all of these buried treasures for the bounty of another?
Squirrels are born thieves, however cute they may be.
The lesson here is that when studied more closely, EVERY situation in life comes down to personal survival and personal satisfaction.
T.O.M.
Americo Thu Sep 16 15:22:29 PDT 1999
Jack: kiss Australia for me! Thank you, Australians. And do not fear. There is no such thing as Timorese militias. They are just Indonesian military criminals disguising themselves as people. The moment the Indonesian government controls its army, not a single shot will be heard in Timor Loro sae.
People: Jack will return in three days and he will archive this page. With over 300 kb, it has beaten all the records! And it is still running, and not that slow for that matter. Good code behind it, I suppose.
Americo agsousa@esoterica.pt Thu Sep 16 15:13:22 PDT 1999
I would like to pay homage to Mark Stahl, an American journalist whose weapon is a camera. With just this gun he has done more for the cause of East Timor than all governments of the world. He photographed one of the massacres commited by the Indonesians to the Timorese in 1991. And is now courageously in the mountains of that martyr country, registering what is still left of that most unfortunate people, while the bureaucrats of the United Nations are still talking and talking and talking. Mark Stahl is an example of what a single person can do for the cause of humanity.
Allein: the metaphor of the squirrels is a most intelligent answer. I was proud of you when I read it.
gariess gsouza@corc.net Thu Sep 16 09:28:34 PDT 1999
Alliene,
You have discovered the wonderful wisdom of nature. If all squirrels bury acorns, and all squirrels dig up acorns. It doesn't matter which acorns the squirrels dig up. By the way, they also bury pine cones. When I emptied out a flower pot, I found a pine cone neatly concealed at the bottom.
GS
Katarina k_dilworth@yahoo.com Thu Sep 16 06:31:27 PDT 1999
My, what introspective fodder for the mind. I am reading these posts early in the morning (not my best time of the day)and it is amazing what I have learned from you all! (Too bad Weston left when he did, huh?)
To Jerry: Remember WHO Allein is and put yourself in her place. I remember when I was her age. I was invincible, authority sucked and I did not venture past my own viewpoint. Allein knows not of war. Only those who have been there know of war. Allein knows not of any government other than ours. Maybe in schools they should start teaching of other types of governments and have guest speakers from other countries. Maybe then the younger generation would see the United States Government in a different light?
My husband used to work with a fellow from Russia, Oleg. During their breaks and lunch hours, Oleg would tell my husband stories about life in Russia (you cannot fathom the poverty and how restricted life is there) and how grateful he was to be in the United States now. It was so interesting to hear, first hand, about daily life in Russia and to reaffirm that we really are pretty well off here. Freedom is very much taken for granted.
Re: Vietnam...Allein...someday you will get the chance to talk in depth to a Vietnam vet. I have twice and it happened per chance. It is truly very sad to hear their stories and to know that their lives will be affected forever by the travesty of war. But there is a reason for war and there is a reason for the United States to be involved in such wars, even if we don't agree with it personally. I am always very proud to talk to a man who has fought for the U.S. and I will always give them the utmost respect. They have defended our country and our freedom. Who could be more of a hero?
Regarding the Colorado killings....I don't believe that "guns" are the mitigating factor. I believe that the demise of the family structure in America is the primary reason that young kids(12?!?!?!?!?) are shooting other people. You cannot tell me that in an attentive, healthy, loving family unit, you would not know that your child was plotting murder, buying guns, etc. What is happening to families these days? My concern lies there and how to correct this situation. I have two young children and I don't want to worry that they may be shot in school someday!!!!
Yikes, I have gone on and on, but this is very emotional stuff....
Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://alleinanderson.8m.com Thu Sep 16 06:22:04 PDT 1999
Here's some info I found - it may be interesting to someone:
Squirrels don't dig up nuts they previously buried. They
actually track down nuts other squirrels buried. You see,
squirrels have a keen sense of smell but a lousy memory. They forget where they buried their own stash, but can sniff out others (maybe the little guys should try adding a little Ginkoba to their acorns).
Allein :)
Martin Thu Sep 16 06:07:18 PDT 1999
Jerry and Alleine
Yes do the reaserch on Dresden. But please do not forget to reaserch what happened to Heidelberg.
The old man and Gary
I have been to the USA twice for over six monthes each time. I have met people who carry a gun. They were reasonable person who exactly knew what it means to carry a gun. Do you really want to take them their guns because of a few maniacs in Collorado or Atlanta? Why does the majority always have to suffer under the cause of the minority? Old man you made a good point about cowardice. I agree to take the guns of these people away but please not on the cost of the reasonable gun-owners I have met.
Martin
Jerry A.G. Ericsson jerrag@sd.cybernex.net Wed Sep 15 22:14:03 PDT 1999
On the subject of the 2nd Ammendment; What a wonderful time to discuss this, CNN is reporting as I type the MURDER of seven, and wounding of eight in Fort Worth Texas. But anyhow, the liberal view of the 2nd ammendment to the US constitution, is that it means the National Guard. When I was studying the law at the University of North Dakota, they taught us that if you are preparing to argue the meaning of an article of law, or an ammendment to the Constitution, you research what the writers of that law or article or ammendment ment when they wrote it. This research is very simple, as the writters left their thoughts in many articles published in the newspapers of the time. These writtings are published in a book called the Federalist Papers. While studying law, I researched the 2nd Ammendment, for a paper for Constitutional law. What I found was that the writters did not in fact mean that we would need a "National Guard" type malitia, but that to protect the PEOPLE from opressive government, the right of the PEOPLE to keep arms must be defended.
You don't have to believe me, do the research yourself.
For nearly 18 years, I carried a gun and a badge. Many times I wished that we could take all the guns and dump them in the angry ocean, but just as many I was happy that citizans had firearms to protect themselves, when we were not there.
The constitution is a growing changing document, and as the streets grow more angry every day, it may be the time for a change. I don't know, but what I do know is that it not up to me, or any one of you, but it is up to all of us to make that change. At least all of us living in the US. Since we live in a Republic, it is necessary for us to make our feelings known to our representatives, who in the end must vote to make such a drastic change. For my part, I could live out my life without having any of my firearms, although they do look impressive hanging on the dinning room wall, I could hang a painting, or maybe a photo of my little grand daughter.
Life goes on.
A NOTE TO REMEMBER:
If you find yourself in the hole, the first thing to do is to stop digging.
Jerry
Jerry A.G. Ericsson jerrag@sd.cybernex.net http://www.geocities.com/soho/lofts/9304 Wed Sep 15 21:50:54 PDT 1999
Allien;
You can choose to believe what you saw in your book, although I question the motives of those who write the text books. A few years an elderly aunt of my wife's died. She left a text book that she had picked up somewhere along in her life, it was written just after the end of the first world war. I could hardly recognize the description of that war from that history book. You could tell that it was very one-sided, by refferences to the acts of the "terrable hun".
I am sure that many civilians were killed by our bombs. In war that does happen, do a little research on what happened to Dresden Germany in WW II. But such actions done by our troops were without malace.
I have never talked about this incident since I left the Republic of Viet Nam, but now it seems appropriate.
Sometime back in October, 1970 we entered a small village near Su Chein about fifteen Klicks from Cam Rahn Bay. The Viet Cong (you know the people we were fighting) had been to the village the night before. We knew the village as a friendly village, and had been there about a month before, and were well received by the people who resided there. Apparently the VC knew about the feelings of the village, and they took revenge because the villagers had cooperated with us. We learned through our interpertor that that night, twelve VC entered the village and went straight to the village elders hootch. They drug the old man, his wife, and his sixteen year old daughter to the center of the village, and while the villagers looked on, they took turns rapeing both the wife and daughter. Then as several VC held the old man, they systematically butchered both women, beginning with a long slit from the left side of the belly region and ending at the bottem of the abdomonal wall, and the removal of all the bowels. Then their throats were slit. When the VC were done, they slit the throat on the village elder, and left.
Needless to say, the rest of the villagers were not real cooperative after the VC left. That was what the good communists did to the noble people of Viet Nam.
During TET of 1969, the VC and the NVA (soldiers from North Viet Nam) Captured and held the ancient capitol of Hue. While they held the City for over two weeks, they murdered all the school teachers, bankers and government employees. They also killed all the family members of any soldiers who were serving in the Army of South Viet Nam.
Now I know that this does not make what you read in your text books right, but you must take into consideration the actions of both sides.
Sorry to ramble on, but I hate it when someone with a little schooling takes swipes at our grand republic.
Jerry
gariess Wed Sep 15 20:16:14 PDT 1999
T.O.M.
I sent the story to Rachel, I remember telling her I would. Was I supposed to send it to you as well? My memory is failing me.
GS
gariess gsouza@corc.net Wed Sep 15 20:10:40 PDT 1999
Martin, T.O.M.,
Rather than misquote the the Constitution I will simply refer to the wording of the provision regarding the bearing of arms in a general way. The out of context "Right to bear arms" is rarely cited with its full wording. The wording that completes the provision refers to an organized militia.
The founders intentions were aimed at something like the National Guard which is, in fact, our organized militia. The writers of the second ammendment never envisioned making a basis in law for all the evils of a trigger happy society. The fore-fathers had no interest in providing a legal venue for every half-wit and frustrated John Wayne in the country-side who wants to "bear arms," contrary to whatever you may have heard from Moses Heston and his NRA, fire-arms industry bed mates.
Any constitutional right has to be exercised with reason. People understood hundreds of years ago that they could only provide a framework for law and not a cathechism of specific applications for any eventuality. We have the right to free speech but not the right to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater. This is an over-used teaching example but it explains that constitutional interpretations have to be made to order and can't be cooked up in advance.
The second ammendment does not commit the nation to total permissiveness on the the issue of gun possession. The gun industry would like everyone to believe that it does, that would suit their purpose quite nicely, but if the wording is left in context it provides a very flimsy constitutional sheild for their profiteering. They want to sell guns with impunity to as many people as they can, and they have many millions of dollars to commit to their lobby efforts.
So, shall we dance?
GS
The Old Man theoldman@williamshakespeare.com Wed Sep 15 15:30:38 PDT 1999
Greetings,
Martin,
The second ammendment of the US constitution guarantees that the government can't take your guns. Most people believe that when it was written, and the writers knew only muzzle-loader rifles, that the intent was to make sure that you had the ability to hunt for food and fight off a government turning against it's people. (They had just rid themselves of British rule).
People use the subtle wording of the document to assure that they are better prepared for war than most small countries.
And, while it is true that if you disarm a dangerous man you are left with an unarmed dangerous man, in how many instances is the courage of a coward multiplied by a gun? Would a small man cross a street to stab a big man? Would the same small man be empowered by being able to stay on his own side of the street and shoot the big man from there?
The changing of the constitution is no small matter, but most people agree that the violence of small men is getting out of hand.
T.O.M.
Martin Wed Sep 15 14:55:31 PDT 1999
Alleine
It is a fact that if you give the people the fredom you ask for they missuse it. Please be also aware that total freedom includes the freedom to shoot people. Therefor it will always be an act of balance. I think that your gouvernment is doing pretty good. Of course you are right. Of course your government has done wrong. Of course you have a good reason to be angry. To be critical does not only mean to point your finger at the wounds of your government it also means to look at the bright side. I guess that is what I am trying to tell all the time.
Let’s go back to the Kosovo. Let’s imagine the UN has not intervened and the Serbs have won the war. Don’t you think, that they would have smelled the odor of the conquerer and tried their luck on Slovenien? Maybe succed, too. Next is Austria. The rest is up to your fantasy. I am very moved that the US Army decided to fight yet another war for me.
It is not the weapon that is dangours. The person who uses it is. Of course you can take the gun away from him but it would not change anything. The person remains dangerous.
You said that the american government has done wrong in Guatemala. Can you give me more information?
The old man
What is the second ammendment?
We have direct democracy here in Switzerland. It is very slow but it works fine.
El lobo solitario
Rachel Wed Sep 15 14:27:21 PDT 1999
Larry - Hi you (smiles) You will be sorry that I went back to your story (grins). I love it. Love the banter between the characters. It is very good, very true to life. I have made some notes on your text and will forward them back to you by the end of the week (Bwah, ha, ha, ha - that is evil laughter) :)
Take care you
Rachel
Rhoda rfort@ren.net Tue Sep 14 22:10:49 PDT 1999
Allein,
You are an intelligent person and a good scholar; however, never believe what you hear and read from one source. Since I write historical fiction, I do a lot of research. This research not only entails fashion, food, housing, technology, etc., but it also requires me to know the political conditions of the place and time in which I write. Furthermore history is a hobby for me. I love it and I have read much of it.
Never, never accept blindly one point of view, espacially when it pertains to something as recent and as controversial as Viet Nam. A large dose of skepticism is always healthy. Ask yourself the political veiws of the persons who wrote your text-books.
I have read things on wars fought in England and in the United States. Even after decades and centuries, there are differing points of views from different scholars. Sometimes these academic arguments get quite bitter. The best way a writer can look at it is to try to fit in the whole picture. What behavior and reasoning seems logical in view of the generals, kings, and nations involved in the conflict? Recently my husband read a book on I believe the Battle of Yorktown. The British historian who wrote the book believed that George Washington was a very poor general. I can show you a dozen other books that claim that Washington was a brillant general. The news recently came out that Sally Hemmings has been proved to have been the mistress of Thomas Jefferson. For over two centuries it had been claimed by many that her children were Jefferson's. Supposedly the DNA evidence supports the claims of the children's descendants that Jefferson was indeed their ancestor. Still the fact is disputed, but you never hear about that on CNN and ABC networks. Historians knowledgable about Jefferson claim that it was out of character for him to father these children and never acknowledge them. Some DNA scientists also point out that the DNA tests do not confirm that Jefferson was a direct ancestor. The tests only prove that these people shared a gene sequence with Jefferson that was prevalent in his family, meaning someone related to Thomas Jefferson could have fathered Sally Hemming's children.
I don't really care about whether or not Jefferson was the father of Sally Hemming's children. I only point out that even with sophistocated DNA testing available, experts disagree. The truth of the matter might never be known.
Critical analysis is a must for any educated person living in a free society where anyone can essentially write anything they want about anything, even if it be untrue. It has been proved over and over again that text-book writers have their own share of predudices and sometimes use them freely in their books. Perhaps, Allein, you should talk with some Viet Nam vets or read other accounts than those your teachers in school give you.
Incidently did your teachers in school tell you about the chaos and the blood bath that occurred in Viet Nam after the Americans left? I heard an account today about Senator John McCain's experiences in the Viet Cong prison. It was absolutely horrifying what those prisoners experienced. Also remember that this nation was bitterly divided over that war. Those feelings and divisions are still very much alive. I agree we should not have been in Viet Nam in the first place, but I shall never forget accounts of Jane Fonda visiting the Viet Cong and insulting United States prisoners of war and United States soldiers who did not make the policy, but merely did their duty. To this day I will not buy a Jane Fonda tape or a movie with her in it. I also have some friends who were Viet Nam vets. I remember their accounts of their homecoming where strangers insulted them. In one case a barber refused to give my friend a haircut because he had fought in Nam.
Some of the students of that time who burned their draft cards and bitterly protested that war now have great power in their professions. Many of these folks are academians and writers of text-books.
Happy writing!
Rhoda
Gariess Tue Sep 14 21:33:49 PDT 1999
Katarina,
I think I will have to get a copy of Hannibal. I assume you are referring to Hannibal Lecter as in "Silence of the Lamb Chops," and not Hannibal as in "crossing the Alps," Hannibal.
Martin,
The closest you can come to that "picture" is whatever your imagination can gather. The Omaha landing has been shown in a variety of ways in films using theatrical and newsreel footage but if I am to believe the accounts of certain actual participants, the best dramatic accounting is in the recent film by Spielberg, although it is reported to have concentrated a prolonged action into ten or so minutes. The men that I have known who survived Omaha have said that the outstanding elements were the terror and the intense shock such wholesale killing of people. Even some of the German gunners have said that they killed so many men for such a sustained length of time that they were actually numbed by it. I don't believe that for you and I there will ever be a way to know what Omaha was like and I don't think we would ultimately regret it. An expression soldiers of by-gone wars used was "Seeing the elephant." It meant having been in combat. It used to be told to recruits and replacements, "If you haven't seen the elephant, boy, don't go looking for him."
However long we stay the line.
However long we pull.
If we haven't seen the elephant.
We haven't payed in full.
It leaves us ever wondering.
What is there in our fears.
That we will never come to know.
However long our years.
Hayden,
The porsche is out of fuel. Sorry, I took it without letting you know, mate. Tell me, is the Outback a big empty looking place that sort of goes on for miles?
GS
gariess gsouza@corc.net Tue Sep 14 20:20:07 PDT 1999
Hey, all you guys,
It seems that we are no sooner upbraided for writing about nothing than we are writing about so many things one can hardly keep up. Mathematical theorists tell us that the universe ends at a point beyond which there is no more information. If the smallest microdoodle of information qualifies the space it occupies as part of creation, then I can hardly believe this forum is a vacuum beyond the reaches of the cosmos.
People are talking about wars and injustice. The right and wrong of the actions of nations. A bit of nonsense and the exploits of a mythical sports car punctuate the more dramatic concerns. The matter of chocolate and its place in life arrive from the whole cloth of the imaginations of our correspondents. People here are challenging each other's consciences, intellects, talents, motives and dispositions. There is also a certain amount of horse play of a good natured sort.
The closest thing to nothing I have seen in the forum is the poor spirited exit of a disappointed observer. What the disappointment is remains unclear. Perhaps we have not done just the right thing. We may not have provided enough substance for scholarly involvement, but the Notebook mission is not so confining as to keep us exclusively academic. Since our plaintiff has left the building, I don't suppose we can adress his concerns with him, but if he takes a parting look back, he will see that we are sorry he has chosen to leave.
GS
The Old Man theoldman@williamshakespeare.com Tue Sep 14 19:27:07 PDT 1999
Greetings and felicitations,
It is not in my nature to discuss politics, but for the sake of the younger members, I shall break my rule.
The government that we in America share has many problems, BUT, and this is a big but...it is the best form of government that man has yet concieved on this planet.
The reason for this is that any form other than democracy is achievable.
Communism is, in fact attainable. The problem with it is that it invites corruption...always.
Democracy is not something that this country has attained, in point of fact, it NEVER will. This is what keeps us going. This is what keeps us fresh. This is what separates our form of government from the rest.
We make mistakes along the way. Usually, we learn from them. Sometimes, we do not. Give us time, we will get better.
Jerry,
I agree that the recent events in Colorado are the result of too much freedom. The way to repair the defect in our form of government is to allow the people of this country to vote on the issue. Should the majority of the population declare the second ammendment too lax, how many people do you know who would be be willing to comply?
For the goal of democracy,it should be taken as a given that what the majority says goes. But it doesn't yet.
We shall keep climbing the hill toward an un-achievable goal while others rest at the top of their respective hills.
T.O.M.
Allein allein_anderson@hotmail.com http://alleinanderson.8m.com Tue Sep 14 18:07:54 PDT 1999
Jerry - I know that Vietnam was not the only tragic war because all wars are tragic. I know what happened in both world wars, but Vietnam is the one I know most about - and I believe the two cases I stated happened in the sixties at least, that's what they say in my history textbook.
I still think we should have let Vietnam alone though. The Atlantic Charter written after WWII, clearly stated that there should be no colonization. Then in comes France and they say that they want Vietnam as a colony. Vietnam brings up what was written in the Atlantic Charter and the United Nations just ignores them. Then when the Vietnamese fought for their freedom, the Americans came in and started killing innocent people. I believe there was another struggle like this - it was called the American Revolution! America should have understood where Vietnam was coming from since we've been there. We thought communism was evil but it isn't. Communism doesn't work because there's no way that things will be shared and money will be spread equally, but it certainly isn't evil. Anyway, that's my two cents worth.
Martin - I know that soldiers have to do what they're told, and so, I'm not saying they are bad. The government is bad for telling the soldiers to kill innocent people. In fact, the American gov. is downright hypocratic. They say we have all these different freedoms - like freedom of the press and speech, but then censorship enters the picture - isn't that like saying we can't print what we want or say what we want. If the United States were really free, we'd have all the freedoms outlined in the Bill of Rights without any limitations (except perhaps the one about owning firearms, since that would include semi-automatic weapons which are usually used to kill people).
Rachel - feel better soon! :)
Allein
Martin Tue Sep 14 16:17:34 PDT 1999
Alleine
Isn’t it comfortable to sit in front of the TV watching a war and believing what you see, eat choclat whatever and feel really sorry for the two cases you have stated?
Now put the choclat away.
Omaha beach. The first wave. Three thousand mariners jump into the water ready to fight. As they actually reach the beach maybe a hundred are left over.
Can you imagine that picture? I am working on it around twenty years and still do not get it.
I really recommend to do some reading on the subject of the soldier. Of course it is not as pleasant as eating choclat, but at the end you may have learned something.
Martin
Jerry Ericsson jerrag@sd.cybernex.net http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/9304 Tue Sep 14 13:10:25 PDT 1999
Allien,
Horriable things happen in war, don't just make refference to what happened in Nam. Look at what happened to innocents in both world wars.
I was there in '70 - 71, and I know that at that time there were no villages bombed just because there might be one VC there, it that were the case there would have been NO villages left in the entire nation. - yes there were villages burned, but almost every time the people were "relocated" first, and while I now that too is wrong, it was the policy set down by the White House at that time.
Just remember in every conflict it is not just the warriors that are injured, and in any civil war, there are horriable things done on both sides.
Viet Nam was a civil war, and I can assure you that many MANY more civilians were killed and butchered by the VC and the NVA then were ever injured by any of our forces.
Yes our goverenment does make mistakes, but in my humble opnion, it is the greatest goverenment that has ever existed on this earth.
Look what has happened in schools most recently, I am speaking of course of Littleton Co. The murders their plied their horror because they had TOO MUCH freedom, not becaused they were oppressed. The simple reason that you must reach the age of majority before the bill of rights applies to you is that only those who have the maturity to properly use the rights can possess them.
You should take a trip to some nation which is not so free as ours and speak with thier citizens, most would give their right arm to be in your possition.
Maybe you have chosen the proper name after all.
Jerry
Katarina k_dilworth@yahoo.com Tue Sep 14 11:31:58 PDT 1999
Hi everyone. Sorry I have been away for so long. Took a couple of vacation days around Labor Day and then work got really busy and I haven't been feeling well lately
Allein: it's a good thing to regret the past but it is even better not to do the same errors/crimes in the present and the future. Let us join hands now and do whatever we can to improve our own country's ways and help those in need. I think a single person can do a lot for his/her own country and even for humanity. Ghandy was a good example, and so was Mandela, and so... well, I am too sad to mention the names of today's heroes.
Weston,
Hi all
Martin - you have good reason to be angry at the American government. Not only did we participate in genocide in Guatamala (and other Latin-American nations) but also in other wars. Countless villiages in Vietnam were bombed with napalm because they were sure ONE person was a vietcong, so they had to kill them all. The saddest picture I've ever seen is the one of that little Vietnamese girl running naked down the street screaming as napalm burned her skin. One picture I saw was of a baby boy (no older than two) in his mother's arms and it looks like his clothes are burned and falling off - but it is his skin. I'm very ashamed that my government would do something like this. I would write here all that I've learned about Vietnam in history, but I have limited time 'cause I need to get to school. :)
Weston, you wrote: "Time for me has become limited" (etc.) Sep 13.
Things change. Time for me has become limited. I am sorry that I have not been able to keep up with the custom here of writing a lot about mostly nothing. What little time I have must be devoted to real writing.
Americo - I agree with you 100%. :) The military should not rule a country - the people should. Even in America they tell us that the people run the the country because we are democratic, but this is not so. The government controls most everything. Supposedly, the Bill of Rights doesn't even apply to you if you're under 18 and they don't apply in public schools regardless. People should be free! I sincerely hope the terrors in East Timor cease very soon.
For the first time in History humanitarianism became transnational. It just needs something crucial at this tragic but hopeful moment: let it become concrete and QUICK!
Good morning, everybody!
Now...onto the funnies...
Americo, Rachel - I finished that edit of Shadows and it is coming your way. :)
Indonesian President Habibe has finally yielded to international pressure. An international peace keeping force has no more excuses not to disembark in Timor Loro Sae.
Hi all
Hello Everyone!
Americo,
HELP! HELP!
Soldier at war
Rachel: "Shadows" lost? Never. I am just trying to solve an incompatibility between Microsoft and Netscape. Otherwise we would already have a nice first version of the novel. "Shadows" is an important challenge for me and probably for all its co-authors. It will be done.
I was wondering if anyone is still interested in using the Notebook Chat? I tried it just for fun and have found that it still works. I will log on to the chat tomorrow (Saturday) at 1:00 pm CDT. That would be 11:00 am pacific time, 12:00 pm eastern and I believe 9:00 pm GMT.
Allein - Hi you. I have a million excuses but I won't bore yah with them (smiles). I will get off an e-mail to you tomorrow morning. If you need some help with Shadows just let me know. Oh, and be sure to send your work off in the two directions we need to make sure that not all is lost (right Americo)? I hope you have a lovely weekend and if you got to Starbucks have a frap for me!
Americo - I will work a bit more on Shadows this weekend after I do my homework and chores (my parents know that this project is very important to me but have made it very clear that school work and household chores come first). I hope to have the edited copy to you Sunday night and something about the Mask very soon.
Americo - (I send you a big hug) Guess, if your not able to talk to your other computer I'll need to wait to hear back on the e-mail that I sent to you (grins). Have a nice weekend.
Good evening, everybody!
Ha, ha, ha
Jack:
Hi all
Rachel - you can send your e-mail to my hotmail address now, it's finally working.
Hello everyone from the beautiful and bawmy climes of Cairns. It is absolutely gorgeous here. On East Timor, I include myself with Americo in my sadness and hopes that peace keepers can be pushed in to squash the actions of both the Indonesians and the Militia. On another note, my password is not working for getting into the account where I maintain the Notebook, so things will continue growing until I can finally get home and read the ISP the riot act for blocking my password. Repeated emails to customer support have been unanswered and I do not wish to be on hold long distance from here in Australia. I did not have a local number for internet at Uluru-Kata Tjuta or as you might also know them Ayer's Rock and the Olgas. Well, now I am at Cairns and can be with you again. Tomorrow we go out to the Great Barrier Reef and will likely snorkel as well as travel all around. I will try to have pictures up on my Australia site. Right now, I have 1250 emails downloading on just one account. I suspect that things will be equally bad on other accounts. Talk with you soon.
Hey you guys,
Gariess
Just one more thing for today. I don't believe many of us here will take kindly to having Ted Turner thrown in our faces. However Mr. Turner and his enterprises are percieved here or abroad, I nor anyone else on this board is likely to accept any responsibility for them.
Rachel - Hotmail is being retarded and won't let me into my account, so, when you answer the e-mail I sent you, please send it to my AOL address listed up nyah (above). Nyah is my brother's way of saying here, above, below...any word he doesn't want to say. Ex: "Me nyah, you nyah" Trans: "Me here, you there." This has been another useless fact. :)
Hey you guys,
Sorry, I meant to write "without the USA poking their nose in it"
Americo - I have to agree with you. I also think that the USA should not get involved - we always end up making things ten times worse. Like the Vietnam war - we bombed civilians, which was VERY wrong. It was Vietnam's business what they wanted to do with their country. We should not have gotten invloved. I feel the same way about Timor - they have enough problems with the USA poking their nose into it.
Americo
T.O.M : You are right about "S" being different from a "round robin". When I launched it I called it a "flat robin". It worked nicely as a collaborative work. And it might even become an interesting book if I wanted very much and was generous enough to re-write it from scratch. Unfortunately I am very tired and really depressed. Thanks anyway for your contribution to a very much needed discussion on collaborative writing. You were the first to add your "two cents" to this topic.
And now, by popular demand (Gariess) ALLEIN'S FUNNIES!! :D
Hayden - oh no! You found my chocolate stains. Darn! As for the smiley face - guilty as charged. But don't blame me for the dents - Rachel was the one driving!
Lydia, Americo, and for that matter everyone else.
Lydia,
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Hayden,
What's up with this Weston thing? If he thinks the Notebook is idle chat, he should check out some other chat groups! I felt like I had struck gold when I found you guys! Weston, you will return, believe me!
A friend at work lent me "Hannibal" to read. I am just at the end of it and can't put it down! I am big into reading drama and suspense, but that is not what I like to write.
Rachel - How are you? Rhoda? How are the kiddies enjoying school? My four year old started back last Wed. and he is in heaven!
Have a great day!
K.
Americo
agsousa@esoterica.pt
Tue Sep 14 10:43:52 PDT 1999
Thanks for your e-mail and let us try to do that chapter.
"S"-people. Rachel and I are actively working on "S". I thought that it was a good idea to suggest to the co-authors that wish to change the names of their characters (and therefore of themselves as co-authors) to do it as soon as possible. Allein will be Aline and Rachel Emma. I am thinking of a name for my own character. That will give a more fictional atmosphere to the novel.
Rhoda
rfort@ren.net
Tue Sep 14 10:04:51 PDT 1999
I sensed your frustration and some disappointment in your post. I really am sorry you feel the way you do and I hate to see you go. It is true that time is a precious commodity. Frankly for me, this writing business is lonely. I live in a community with lovely people, but have not discovered anyone yet with whom I can share my love of writing. Not only do I have an interest in writing, but I have interests in what is going on in the world around me. Here on the Notebook, I find people who share all those things.
For awhile I belonged to a writer's club in Farmington, where I used to live. In this group I made many close and dear friends, all of whom I miss terribly. We discussed agents, writing, publishers, the market, and our writing routeins. We also discussed politics, religion and philosophy at times. Most writers I have met are intelligent, passionate, and deep-thinking people. That is where their inspiration to write comes from.
So while I agree, Weston, that this forum is a bit short on the topic of writing, I do conclude that there are people here I have been privledged to know. And speaking of writing, there was a lot of writing going on in the production of "Shadows." There were those of us who did not merely speak of the practice, we did it.
I do wish you well, Weston. I hope you find other sources on the Web that inspire, inform and support you in your writing endeavors. I urge you to every so often, look in on us and lurk. You might find that in a month or so, the direction of our discussions and some of the contributers might have changed. That is often the way it goes with the Notebook.
Rachel,
When one joyrides around at high speeds in a Porche eating chocolate at the same time, one must expect to pay the consequences. Seriously, I hope you feel much better soon. There is nothing worse than feeling sick when there are children to ferry off to school or to various activities. Just get plenty of rest and take it easy.
Happy Writing!
Rhoda
Rachel
danolson@sprint.ca
Tue Sep 14 07:02:45 PDT 1999
Allein - I have an e-mail in progress that I'm working on for you (smiles) I really needed the hugs. I am SICK! I hate being sick, I have not time for it!
Weston - Take care and I wish you all the best.
Americo - Hi you.
Take care all
Rachel
Allein
allein_anderson@hotmail.com
http://alleinanderson.8m.com
Tue Sep 14 06:14:01 PDT 1999
Rachel - drop me a message soon. (((BIG HUGS)))
Allein
Americo
agsousa@esoterica.pt
Tue Sep 14 05:24:50 PDT 1999
This page has been passionately loved by many people, who have written here interesting things about really serious matter, like human rights, the role of the writer in society, democracy, the tragedy in East Timor — the stuff real literature is made of. I love this page and admire everyone who has contributed to make of it a forum for free debate on life and literature. Your post is unjust to them all and unfair to this page. It also reveals contempt for its three-year history, during which time all kinds of things have been discussed here. If you doubt consult its archives.
If you think that any of the topics I mentioned is "writing a lot about mostly nothing", I strongly disagree with you. I defend that the real writer must intervene in all human affairs and show his/her indignation towards injustice and his/her solidarity towards those who suffer. This is the real stuff and the main concerns of the real writer.
Your post suggests that your idea of literature is different from mine. That is interesting and worthy of a good debate, but I suspect that the "real writing" you refer to is just a poor excuse for not saying openly that you are displeased with my recent posts about the immense tragedy of East Timor. What is for you "real writing" ? And where is yours?
There is something deeply false in the ambiguity and vagueness of your message. Cannot you be more specif about the target of your criticism? I am a man of good-will and prepared to debate all kinds of topics. On one condition: that my antagonist does not support, directly or indirectly, by words, acts or indifference, criminal ideas, like genocide or nazism. I want to believe that you are not one of these.
In the meantime, farewell indeed.
Martin
Tue Sep 14 03:29:23 PDT 1999
yesterday I (a friend) went to Modena to the presentation of a book on the genocide in Guatemala. Not many people know about this: it was carried out for 30 years by the army with the support of the American government and the CIA.
My dear friends is this a fact?
Do I have a reason to be angry with the american gouvernment?
Weston
Mon Sep 13 18:13:29 PDT 1999
Farewell.
Allein
allein_anderson@hotmail.com
http://alleinanderson.8m.com
Mon Sep 13 17:04:24 PDT 1999
Allein
Americo
agsousa@esoterica.pt
Mon Sep 13 16:41:56 PDT 1999
Thank you Australia, Canada, all the countries near Indonesia, thank you world. We will overcome. We will be there soon, Timorese brothers and sisters. We are with you at every moment of the day and night.
And the criminals will be led to an ad hoc tribunal which is already been thought and prepared to punish the murderers. Oh yes, Sir! Do not doubt about that! That is also a sacred cause: punish the murderers. You will not remain impune.
For the moment, however, just a word of hope for you, Timorese brethren. We will be there VERY SOON.
Long live TIMOR LOROSAE! Long live DEMOCRACY.
Américo Guerreiro de Sousa
Americo
agsousa@esoterica.pt
Mon Sep 13 06:48:37 PDT 1999
People are being killed in East Timor with even more hatred than before. The Indonesian Army and its militias are decided to finish the genocide before any international forces can witness it.
Australia: do not wait a second more. Do not wait for the United Nations bureaucrats to waste even more time with the ruses of Ali Alatas. We know what a hypocritical man he is. PLEASE ACT IMMEDIATELLY! There are reports that the Indonesians are putting Timorese in ships and drowning them. This is yet to be confirmed but we know for sure that the attacks on innocent people are going on at this very moment and the people hidden in the mountains are at their physical limit. They have no food, no water and little hope.
Indonesia has not any right to be in East Timor. That country is still under Portuguese jurisdiction. I am sorry Portugal is so far and the Portuguese government is complete shit as far as taking concrete and quick decisions are concerned. ACT NOW!!!
I am also asking the good-intentioned Indonesians to strongly protest against the crimes of their Army and the hypocrisy of their politicians. The Indonesian people is not guilty. It's just their bloody military and their hypocritical politicians. INDONESIANS, DO NOT LET THE MILITARY RULE YOUR COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Allein
allein_anderson@hotmail.com
http://www.alleinanderson.8m.com
Mon Sep 13 06:23:35 PDT 1999
Here it is, the secret chart used by bachelors worldwide, because they don't have wives who can recognize on sight (and sometimes before) when the Big Mac has become one with the special sauce.
FREEZER FOODS:
ICE CREAM - If you can't tell the difference between your ice cubes and your ice cream, it's time to throw BOTH out.
FROZEN FOODS - Frozen foods that have become an integral part of the defrosting problem in your freezer compartment will probably be spoiled (or wrecked anyway) by the time you pry them out witha kitchen knife.
IN THE FRIDGE:
EGGS - When something starts pecking its way out of the shell, the egg is probably past its prime.
DAIRY PRODUCTS - Milk is spoiled when it starts to look like
yogurt. Yogurt is spoiled when it starts to look like cottage cheese. Cottage cheese is spoiled when it starts to look like regular cheese. Regular cheese is nothing but spoiled milk anyway -- if you can dig down and still find something non-green, bonappetite!
MEAT - If opening the refrigerator door causes stray animals from a three-block radius to congregate outside your house, toss the meat.
UNMARKED ITEMS: You know it is well beyond prime when you're
tempted to discard the Tupperware along with the food. EMPTY
GENERAL RULE OF THUMB: - Most food cannot be kept longer than the average life span of a hamster. Keep a hamster in your refrigerator to gauge this.
ON THE SHELF:
CANNED GOODS - Any canned goods that have become the size or
shape of a softball should be disposed of ... Very carefully.
POTATOES - Fresh potatoes do not have roots, branches, or dense,leafy undergrowth.
THE GAG TEST - Anything that makes you gag is spoiled (except for leftovers from what you cooked for yourself last night).
BREAD: Sesame seeds and Poppy seeds are the only officially
acceptable "spots" that should be seen on the surface of any loaf of bread. Fuzzy and hairy looking white or green growth areas are good indications that your bread has turned into a pharmaceutical laboratory experiment. You may wish to discard it at this time, depending on your interest in pharmaceuticals.
CEREAL: It is generally a good rule of thumb that cereal should be discarded when it is two years or longer beyond the expiration date, or when it will no longer fall out of the box by itself.
FLOUR: Flour is spoiled when it wiggles, or things fly out whenyou open it.
PRETZELS: Normally eternal, pretzels may be discarded if they can no longer be picked up without falling apart. Otherwise, there's nothing to stop you from eating a pretzel that the Pharaoh put down only 4000 years ago.
RAISINS: Raisins should not usually be harder than your teeth.
SALT: It never spoils. However, if you can't chip off reasonable amounts from the block, maybe another box is in order, as fresh salt usually pours.
SPICES: Most spices cannot die, they just fade away. They will be fine on your shelf, forever. Put them in your will.
VINEGAR: If your grandmother made it, it is probably still good.
EXPIRATION DATES: This is not a marketing ploy to encourage you to throw away perfectly good food so that you'll spend more on groceries. Even dry foods older than you are may be ready to replace. Perhaps you'd benefit by having a calendar in your kitchen.
Allein
allein_anderson@hotmail.com
http://alleinanderson.8m.com
Sun Sep 12 11:39:36 PDT 1999
Allein
Americo
agsousa@esoterica.pt
Sun Sep 12 11:03:41 PDT 1999
Let us hope the United Nations act quickly. Habibe has many political enemies in the army. They are ready to complete the genocide begun 24 years ago and, in a most evident way, after the referendum of the 30th August 99. The situation is still tragic and can only be solved with firm determination. The criminals are more blood thirsty and desperate than ever.
Anyway, it seems that the good-will people of this world have won a second battle. The first was the referendum itself. The third will be the judgement of the criminals and the reconstruction of East Timor.
---
Gary, you said: "I'm afraid I don't do well in my own genre. I might do quite well, but I'm just afraid."
Each writer knows that sort of panic. The only way to appease it is to write and see. Your humor is unique. Not exactly Grouxo Marx's. It is... Garyish. And that is a good sign, a sign of originality — originality : a broad topic for discussion here.
Why don't you revise the plot of your play? The physical solution you proposed to dissolve the drama into comedy and therefore smile to tragedy with half a face is not, in my humble opinion, a good solution. But it can provide a scene, an episode. I got the impression that, as a writer, you have a bag of tears hidden in your heart, ready to come out but ashamed to do so. The solution? Not a burlesque but a stoic approach to reality. Just a suggestion among many other possible ones of course.
Rachel
danoldon@sprint.ca
Sun Sep 12 09:59:42 PDT 1999
Larry - I didn't get bored, its a great story and I like it. I have just been busy. I've been working on Shadows and it can be a little time consuming. Sorry. I will get back to you. I may be slow at returning e-mail from time to time, but I do return it. Well, okay, I might have lost track of one or two, but I hadn't lost track of you.
Take care you
Americo - I am feeling refreshed and ready to go at shadows full ahead.
Allein - C'mon you! I know you can get this in. It would be great if Americo and I could get a look at the first edit all nice and organized (smiles). Still I do agree with your parents. Hope you had fun with Aaron last night.
Take care all
Rachel
Martin
http//www.infomaniak.ch/~sboos/Normandie44/Fr_N44_2htm
Sun Sep 12 02:12:46 PDT 1999
There were no heros sitting in the landing-crafts, just frozen through, seasick and scared human beings.
Cornelius Ryan; The Longest Day
Larry Edwardts
LEdwardts1@aol.com
Sat Sep 11 22:55:56 PDT 1999
Business first
To Avatar:
Are you referring to a floppy? There should be little incompatibility between any version of Windows. However, Hard drives with WIN 98 can be formatted to use 32 bit, whereas hard drives formatted with Win 3.0 (DOS 6.2+) are probably 16 bit. There are various file systems: NTFS (win NT), Fat16 (Win 3.0 above), Fat32 (Win95 above). Usually a floppy can always be read because the file system is usually standard during a format (not always true but mostly true). There are several utilities that allow conversion.
To Martin:
How have you been? You said you were/are a soldier? What army/militia? Or would you have to kill me if I knew that? Hee Hee!
To Rachael:
I guess you got bored. Sorry about that. Did you get my response to my email about how long in foster care?
It is hard to start writting again after a ten year failure. I am taking a correspondence course. I will probably write a more commercial novel, use the money to self-publish my first novel and say screw the agents. Guilty of pandering as charged.
I haven't written in this notebook for a while. I felt a little left out with this Shadows thing everyone contributed into. It sounded so good. And I was a little to late to contribute anything worthwhile.
Well see ya guys later.
BTW Avatar, use my email address and send me any questions. I will try to help.
Gariess
gsouza@corc.net
Sat Sep 11 21:15:11 PDT 1999
I checked on those round robins you mentioned and I agree that they are nicely written. Like you, I'm afraid I don't do well in those genres. I'm afraid I don't do well in my own genre. I might do quite well, but I'm just afraid. Very fearful. Last night I shot an elephant in my genre. What he was doing in my genre, I have no idea. Say the secret word and a duck will be divided between you. I was a big Groucho fan. Stars needed fans in those days, the air conditioning was terrible.
You'll have to forgive me. I'm writing this post in a moving Porsche. Hayden is driving wery fast and he's on the wrong side of the road. Luckily, the drivers going the other way are also on the wrong side.
We were supposed to go out and impress ladies, so far Hayden has impressed two... with the fenders. He also hit a kangaroo in his pajamas. What he was doing in his pajamas, I have no idea. Kangaroos are odd looking enough without pajamas. Hayden, on the other hand, looks about the same with or without pajamas.
I say, old fellow, have you noticed this steering wheel is all wrong? The gear shift is at your left hand. Don't suppose you'd care to slow down a bit? Those utility poles are starting to look like a picket fence. Blast, man! That was my new hat out the window. What do you mean the windows are up? How can they be up?
Very fearful,
GS
Avatar
firewings79@hotmail.com
Sat Sep 11 12:28:49 PDT 1999
I am now completely and utterly at the mercy of these *^*%&*^computers!
I put my Shadows contributions into a disk with the format for Windows 98. The one at home (and hope to be working on) is a 3.0. OH WHERE OH WHERE HAS MY SANITY GONE?
Help from others would be nice. I heard something about being able to change the setting from Win something to Win something else because they both are made by the same company.
Am I making any sense?
Americo- Mortal? What's a mortal? ;) Just kidding. Will do oh master of the ceremonies (if I could just figure out the answer to this rat-brained problem! My dad could help me, he's an accountant in training, but does work on computers. Unfortunately, he's not going to be home for a little while (try around mid-night tonight!) so(gulp) I'm on my own)
Allein- Or was it Alline? 'M sorry about the spelling. Digimon was on Saturday mornings last time I saw with about every other cartoon on the face of the planet. Where I live, mountain time, it's on the Fox Channel. Don't know what else to say.
Okay, I'm off again. Will be back (hopefully) next saturday or a little later today.
Digimon digivolve into about every digithing on the face of their digiplanet. Wonder if they'd digivolve into digidinner?
;)
Be back soon
Later all
-Avatar
Martin
http//www.infomaniak.ch/~sboos/Normandie44/Fr_N44_2htm
Sat Sep 11 11:39:31 PDT 1999
58 172 German sons perished
15 353 American sons perished
36 613 British sons perished
5 007 Canadian sons perished
650 Polan sons perished in
The Normandie
All this to give my minde the freedom back it so desperatly needs.
My grandfather perished in Stalingrad. Two of his brethren froze to death in the Gulag. Two of his sons, my mothers brethren, perished in Germany. One four days before the war in Europe was ended.
Don’t you know that the question if a war is good or bad is deadly wrong?
Don’t you know if someone is pointing a gun at your head cocking the trigger you are the first one who shoots back, without asking if it is good or bad?
I am not a politician and I know nothing about politics in war. But I am a soldier and have studied the cause of the soldier in war very prfoundly.
I honor every single soldier who ever lost his innocence, his minde or his life in a war. Be it the Trojan, Waterloo, Normandie or Viet Nam.
El lobo solitario
Americo
agsousa@esoterica.pt
Sat Sep 11 10:44:16 PDT 1999
Allein: I will always support you, your parents and "Shadows" (by this order). Do not get stressed but well, a bit of stress sometimes helps. Send your material as soon as you can. You may eat a chocolate afterwards...
Xavier: I am sorry but I must give you a deadline. How about... well, get in touch and we will settle the deadline for you to send ALL your material for Shadows according to your possibilities. You must be a co-author as well, friend. Three days for a little e-mail?
Rhoda
rfort@ren.net
Fri Sep 10 22:14:18 PDT 1999
Well, I need to work on my poor neglected web-site. I will post the location again just as soon as it meets my specifications.
Happy Writing!
Rhoda
Rachel
Fri Sep 10 22:10:18 PDT 1999
Gary - Soooooo, where is the story (smiles).
Americo - I do accept and appreciate your thanks.
Take care all
Rachel
Allein
allein_anderson@hotmail.com
http://alleinanderson.8m.com
Fri Sep 10 21:21:02 PDT 1999
Rachel - Still no e-mail. :( Well, I'm sure you're busy. Write me soon though, K?
Allein
Rachel
danolson@sprint.ca
Fri Sep 10 19:02:13 PDT 1999
Take care you
Rachel
Shadows people - When you send off your work to Americo, be sure to fire off a copy to me as well so that in the event of computer problems for Americo we will still have the texts and not need to ask for them again. Thanks for the co-operation (big smiles)
XAVIER!!!!!! Where are you!!!!!! Where, oh where, oh where are you?
EVERYONE - Have a great weekend.
Americo
Fri Sep 10 18:18:50 PDT 1999
Today we received in Lisbon the bishop of Timor, Dão Ximenes Belo. It was very moving: thousands and thousands of people chanting songs of peace and showering him, "this poor man", as he called himself in a simple but extremely moving speech, with white petals of flowers. I cried of course, everybody cried in Portugal. I am proud I did cry. Democracy can be so beautiful!
Allein: have you finished your edit and the masquerade scene? Send them, please.
Sqrl and Avatar: how about a re-write of your beautiful texts in order to make them just a bit more understandable to us, poor mortals? Do not forget to write something about the tea ceremony, the karaoke and the mask ball. I think you did not pay enough attention to those scenes. Avatar's epilogue is quite interesting.
Where are you, Xavier? I would like that you would become a co-author as well.
Gary and Hayden: there are two very interesting round robins going in the workbook. "Them Bones" and "Darkness Descends". I read them and found them very well written. It is a pity they are not in my line of writing, but they deserve your attention.
NB: Can anyone tell me if it is possible to have two accounts in Messenger (Netscape Communicator) simultaneously, as it is in Outlook Express? You see, I use a second computer in another house and I communicate between my two computers through e-mail. I use a second login just for this purpose (usually just to send files from one to the other). I cannot figure out how to do this with Messenger.
Martin
Fri Sep 10 14:31:49 PDT 1999
And you already thought that I am gone.
Nice trick isn’t it?
But I am a fair guy and offer you a once in a liftime bargain. If you change your name to mister narrow minded I will leave the notebook.
The people who live in the ‘House of the rising sun’ have five millenniums of great and respectful history. (It depens on what day you date the dawning of the men.)
I still stand up to what I said. If you would care halfe about the Rusian people, who have five century of great and respectful suffering, as you care about the Timor people you can count me in as an evergreen.
.... for I keep on wondering who is relaying on CNN and who is not ....
I make a joke and Americo shoots at me, it was at least a peace maker, for I still can see the hole in the wall, and suddenly two men are at war. Isn’t that quite funny? Can anyone tell me where I can join the battle? If I am supposed to be in it, I have to marche - I guess?
Justice? Plese explain to me. noname@bluewin.ch
Swiss gouvernement just has decided to put me to jail for three days. Americo would you please sent the great Portugal army over here to free me.
Lydia
Every day has twenty-four hours, except for one...
... It was June 6th 1944.
I know it was your son but believe me he fought for what he knew was right and I will always honor his intention.
Are we, is the notebook, I am free yet?
El lobo solitario
Americo
agsousa@esoterica.pt
Fri Sep 10 11:06:00 PDT 1999
You said —
"On East Timor, I include myself with Americo in my sadness and hopes that peace keepers can be pushed in to squash the actions of both the Indonesians and the Militia."
I thank you very much indeed. Come back home quickly. We need you here as an intelligent and kind "peace keeping force"...
I also thank all the other writers who have shown their concern for the genocide of the people of Timor Loro Sae. The cause is far from won but justice will prevail. "We shall overcome", as Juan Baez used to sing in times not easier that today.
I hope my messages on the subject have helped everyone think a little about human rights, freedom, democracy, the value of human life and the role of the writer in society. That is my only purpose, not to offend anyone. And I will go on with my messages. Till good prevails over evil. And till Timor Loro Sae can live in freedom, independence and happiness. The Portuguese also commited grave faults in the past, and that's why we are crying louder than any other nation. We learned, in five centuries of colonization of other peoples, that causing suffer to others will ultimately cause suffer to us. And we are doing everything we can to correct the errors of the past. Please help us in our wish to be better and to help our brethren. We do not want American missiles. We demand the World support for a just cause — the cause of Democracy, no less.
----
And now I am going to read a book on how to become a millionaire so that I can buy one of those fascinating cars you have been talking about. My preference still goes to the old Mercedes. A white coupe with brown leather seats... That's my dream. A futile dream but a dream — therefore a good thing. I wonder if we have here good roads for such a car... Do you think that a helicopter would be a better idea than a Mercedes?
----
If I had a helicopter I would bombard some people I know in Jakarta!
(This sentence is not very Christian, but what I wrote is written. I am no saint, you know?)
Rachel
danolson@sprint.ca
Fri Sep 10 07:22:58 PDT 1999
Gary - I would love the whole Baker piece (big smiles and hugs back at yah)!
Allein - Will drop you a note
Hayden - I, well, about the crash, I mean the dent. I am sending over an excellent cyber mechanic and by the time you see the car again all traces of my adventures should be gone. I have also seen to a complete interior detailing and washed it myself. The car will be in top shape when you and Gary head out for your tour (grins). Oh, and I'll be glad to have a word with you any time.
Take care all
Rachel
Allein
allein_anderson@hotmail.com
http://alleinanderson.8m.com
Fri Sep 10 06:39:11 PDT 1999
NOW TIME FOR ALLEIN'S FUNNIES!! :)
SOME TIME-HONOURED TRUTHS:
1. Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things.
2. One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
3. One nice thing about egotists: They don't talk about other people.
4. To be intoxicated is to feel sophisticated but not be able to say it.
5. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
6. The older you get, the better you realise you were.
7. I doubt, therefore I might be.
8. Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.
9. Procrastination is the art of keeping up with yesterday.
10. Women like silent men, they think they're listening.
11. Men are from earth. Women are from earth. Deal with it.
12. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and
he
will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
13. A fool and his money are soon partying.
14. Do paediatricians play miniature golf on Wednesdays?
15. Before they invented drawing boards, what did they go back to?
16. Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery.
17. If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
18. If God dropped acid, would he see people?
19. If one synchronised swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too?
20. If the #2 pencil is the most popular, why is it still #2?
21. If work is so terrific, how come they have to pay you to do it?
22. If you're born again, do you have two bellybuttons?
23. If you ate pasta and antipasta, would you still be hungry?
24. If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?
25. Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them?
Jack Beslanwitch
jack@webwitch.com
http://www.webwitch.com/posi-web/australia.html
Fri Sep 10 04:18:23 PDT 1999
gariess
gsouza@corc.net
Thu Sep 9 23:38:24 PDT 1999
I like T.O.M.'s idea for a round robin. There was an on line round robin I joined a couple of years ago and it was quite fun. I
I also like Lydia's thoughts on Timor Loro Sae. It is disappointing to see people challenging the motives and reactions of others. I don't think a person should be held responsible for his governments position. If someone takes a passionate attitude toward injustice, he should not be upbraided because his country is not acting. Mine may not act but that doesn't discredit my feelings.
I believe we agree far more than we disagree on the plight of the East Timorese. I think some misunderstandings have arisen among us possibly because a posting board does not communicate a whole scope of human intention as well as a place where one can read the face of a person as well as hear the person's words. One's tone may be quite different from what we infer in our reading of a post. The posting board gives us the opportunity to speak without interruption which is a rare commodity in a discussion and a very useful one, but it does have limitations.
I also don't believe that as writers we have any greater scope in world affairs than accountants or fish packers. I don't mean that we are not more eloquent on average with a word processor but a factory worker who stands in front of a tank in Tianamen Square is more eloquent than I will be for any words I leave on this board.
So what do you say, Hayden, want to dance? Shall we take the Porsche out this weekend and impress the ladies? Maybe we can drag race a Stutz Bearcat. Those Bearcats could roll out on the long end quite well, heard of them doing in the 90's on a straight away, but a Porsche would be a cinch in a sprint. Probably hold the curves better too. Wouldn't it be fun to have a time machine with all our other toys? Damn, what's this stuff all over me, chocolate? What have you been doing in this thing?
GS
Hayden
Thu Sep 9 21:36:49 PDT 1999
You old dog! I just got this lampshade to fit perfectly
Grumble grumble.
But hey, let's do the touring thing in the porsche! Damn, those ladies will be impressed!
And you're right about writers not having the eloquence of a factory worker when it comes to actions. Oh to be that kind of person. Maybe in the porsche...
Cheers
Gariess
gsouza@corc.net.
Thu Sep 9 21:18:34 PDT 1999
My own reaction to being told by someone from a distant shore that I do not care, is not benign. I could suggest that my cats know more about how I feel than someone does who is crying outrage from a tear-stained balcony. I could, that is, if I took a notion to, but that would violate my vow of non-provocation.
Hayden, we'll be needing that lampshade when you're through.
The old alligator
PS
Rachel, I have the completed Jack Baker piece, if you want to see it. Hugs, dear one.
Allein
Lunika@aol.com
http://alleinanderson.8m.com
Thu Sep 9 21:03:04 PDT 1999
Allein
gariess
gsouza@corc.net
Thu Sep 9 20:38:25 PDT 1999
I like T.O.M.'s idea for a round robin. There was an on line round robin I joined a couple of years ago and it was quite fun. I
I also like Lydia's thoughts on Timor Loro Sae. It is disappointing to see people challenging the motives and reactions of others. I don't think a person should be held responsible for his governments position. If someone takes a passionate attitude toward injustice, he should not be upbraided because his country is not acting. Mine may not act but that doesn't discredit my feelings.
I believe we agree far more than we disagree on the plight of the East Timorese. I think some misunderstandings have arisen among us possibly because a posting board does not communicate a whole scope of human intention as well as a place where one can read the face of a person as well as hear the person's words. One's tone may be quite different from what we infer in our reading of a post. The posting board gives us the opportunity to speak without interruption which is a rare commodity in a discussion and a very useful one, but it does have limitations.
I also don't believe that as writers we have any greater scope in world affairs than accountants or fish packers. I don't mean that we are not more eloquent on average with a word processor but a factory worker who stands in front of a tank in Tianamen Square is more eloquent than I will be for any words I leave on this board.
So what do you say, Hayden, want to dance? Shall we take the Porsche out this weekend and impress the ladies? Maybe we can drag race a Stutz Bearcat. Those Bearcats could roll out on the long end quite well, heard of them doing in the 90's on a straight away, but a Porsche would be a cinch in a sprint. Probably hold the curves better too. Wouldn't it be fun to have a time machine with all our other toys? Damn, what's this stuff all over me, chocolate? What have you been doing in this thing?
GS
Allein
Thu Sep 9 19:25:58 PDT 1999
Allein
allein_anderson@hotmail.com
http://alleinanderson.8m.com
Thu Sep 9 19:25:19 PDT 1999
Allein
Hayden
Thu Sep 9 19:09:24 PDT 1999
Go slowly amidst the haste, please. Consider your own wisdom and please don't plead a case that needs no pleading here. We mourn for those in Timor, as we did for those in Kosovo and Croatia and in Iraq and in Korea and all the other places where one side of the population attacked another part. There is no need to reproach us--we support you.
Not knowing the intimate facts doesn't mean we don't understand what is happening, nor that we are doing nothing. You see only the words on the screen, not the actions that we take: the morning vigils outside the Indonesian embassy and the petitions we are signing in our Capital city.
If you must burn with fire, do so freely, but where it will warm those who need the support. Your fire should be placed where it will do good, rather than burn those who feel as you do.
Hayden
And having said that, let me tell you that I will not scorch those who left chocolate stains on my back seat, but I might have a word or two to the driver.
Americo
agsousa@esoterica.pt
Thu Sep 9 18:36:06 PDT 1999
Thu Sep 9 18:33:44 PDT 1999
PS. Today they killed the father of Xanana Gusmão, the leader of the Timorese Resistance for many years and the new Mandela. His father was 82.
People: please do not make any comments about East Timor, unless you know what you are talking about. Speak about the growing teeth of your lovely babies and even of how wonderful the USA is, always was and will ever be and how the saints are all marshing on towards a well-deserved heaven because they prayed a lot and gave soup to the poor. But speak only about what you know. Please! Please! Please!
For the record: I sincerely hope that the USA does not get involved in this affair. It was enough to have given green light to Suharto (who else?) to invade East Timor in 1975. The invasion took place immediately after Gerald Ford (I think it was that one) visited his dear friend in Indonesia for talks about the affair. This is History, not speculation. But you see: it was a long time ago and there is no blood that cannot be washed with a few bucks... Your hands are clean. Immaculate. Immaculately clean.
What Timor Loro Sae is demanding and Portugal is supporting with all its heart is that the UNITED NATIONS force Indonesia to honor the agreement it signed on the 5th May 99, according to which it would respect the results of the referendum of the Timorese. They massively voted in favor of Independence. And now they are being killled.
PS. Tomorrow the representatives of the UNITED NATIONS will go away. Journalists have already being forced to go away. The bishop of Timor and Nobel Prize for Peace had to leave as well, after seeing with his own eyes people being murdered in his own residence. He will be received with the utmosy respect in Lisbon tomorrow at noon. He is a man. Maybe Ted Turner will show some pictures of the event if the show will give him some more bucks. All kinds of values, including one that you, writers, should praise and defend — freedom of witnessing to have the freedom to write — are being disregarded and despised. Why should you care?
Allein
allein_anderson@hotmail.com
http://alleinanderson.8m.com
Thu Sep 9 17:12:50 PDT 1999
~~~ MURPHY'S LAWS OF COMPUTING! ~~~
~ For every action, there is an equal and opposite malfunction.
~ To err is human... to blame your computer for your mistakes is
even more human; in fact it is downright natural.
~ He who laughs last probably made a back-up.
~ If at first you don't succeed, blame your computer.
~ A complex system that does not work is invariably found to have
evolved from a simpler system that worked just fine.
~ The number one cause of computer problems is computer solutions.
~ A computer program will always do what you tell it to do, but
rarely what you want it to do.
~ When computing, whatever happens, behave as though you meant
it to happen.
~ When you get to the point where you really understand your
computer, it's probably obsolete.
~ The first place to look for information is in the section of
the manual where you least expect to find it.
~ When the going gets tough, upgrade.
~ When you need to send an email quick, that's when the modem
won't connect!
Allein
allein_anderson@hotmail.com
http://alleinanderson.8m.com
Thu Sep 9 16:59:38 PDT 1999
Allein
Thu Sep 9 16:20:01 PDT 1999
It's rare that poignancy enters the fray when countries are screaming at each other about helping and not helping. But I must admit the postings you two put forward really hit the spot. The idea of the portugese hanging out white flags etc and Americo unable to find a white shirt was just one such poignant moment. Quite beautiful and visually moving. And Lydia's cry of "we're damned if we do and damned if we don't" from the heart of the American people is itself a wake up to us removed from the action, as it were. Gariess has, in private posts to me, worded his own opinion in a similar vein, showing that the government meander when the public know the way. He hasn't said as such, but in my reading of it I see that the government doesn't learn the right lessons, only the ones that get them voted into office: be that the altering of the history books or the stifling of the press or (let me add) the manipulation of the judicial system so they can get away with anything to do with White House interns.
Australia and New Zealand have offered, repeatedly, to send in peace keeping forces to assist in the re-establishment of "normality" in Timor. Indonesia has made it quite clear that they are not going to let that happen. For either country (Aus or NZ) to do anything else other that accede to their wishes, will be to perform an act of war, whether the peace keepers are armed or unarmed.
Already there have been incidences which show that the Timorese militia and some of the Indonesian forces are seeking out Australians to target. Mainly, I believe because we sent in peace keepers earlier to help in the election, which the militia tried to derail. Those peace keepers have left as soon as their job was done. To send them back in would be stupidly suicidal, unless the UN backs us up. And it seems as if they might...with changes happening overnight and them digging in for the long haul.
Let us see where it goes now.
For us on this forum to go logger heads at each other here on the notebook will only be destructive. Americo's quiet, yet passionate post and Lydia's equally moving remarks show that there are people close to us who "feel the humility of being human". This is the best way for us to rejoice in our need to rise up against the villian and it is what makes writers of us, rather than ranters. I applaud your sensibilities, and your sensitivities.
BUT, I'd also like to remark that my porsche has been dented and needs a damn good wash! And someone painted a smiley button on the back fender. So, Rachel, who were you joy riding with? Was it Rhoda, Gariess, Bob, Lydia, Allein, Americo, or ALL OF THEM AT ONCE? My Gosh, there even chocolate stains on the back seat!
GRrrrrrrr
Hayden.
PS The Bearcat is known and loved by my family. But being the black sheep, I want something with power, class, prestige. Maybe a Kenworth might be in order.
Rhoda
rfort@ren.net
Thu Sep 9 16:09:24 PDT 1999
Very well said. Thanks for the input.
Rhoda
The Old Man
theoldman@williamshakespeare.com
Thu Sep 9 15:34:24 PDT 1999
Lydia is as thoughtful as she is eloquent.
On the subject of a new project; The Round Robin was a game played by families before the invention of television. The first player would start the game with a sentence, "It was a dark and stormy night..." and the next player in turn would add to what was already begun.
How about assigning numbers, and each player in turn adds no more than 1000 words. The next player will continue the story from that point. ...and so on...
The "Shadows" Round Robin game was a variation of the traditional rules to the game, and forgive me my meager input, but it seemed a bit disjointed because of it. It became a plethorah of stories instead of just one. (Although I still enjoyed it)
What do you think?
T.O.M.
Lydia Sweet
lydiasweet@yahoo.com
http://www.bass.odessa.ua/mac/exotic/excalibur.html
Thu Sep 9 13:20:59 PDT 1999
It would seem the "Excalibur" is an American car. I believe it was somewhere around 1920 or so that it was made. Originally it was called a Stutz-Bearcat? The above link will take you to a website that opens up to a lovely picture of the aforementioned vehicle. (Sigh!) Alas, my Excalibur is as real as Rachel's Porshe.
Someday, maybe.
I have refrained from commenting on politics, however I will say this and no more. I am human and I hurt anytime I hear of any form of injustice. My country will respond to a crisis, but it does so very slowly and with much thought because we are, more often than not, accused of interfering or throwing around American muscle. This country takes a beating for whatever it does or doesn't do and my people are cursed and degraded world-wide. I want very much to see the world, but I'm not too sure it wants to see me. Don't you think for every call to assist there is an opposite side that screams intimidator. Don't und